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271 | Culture of Belonging: Creating Safe and Sacred Spaces | SMC Podcast · Student Ministry Conversations

• Brent Aiken: Hey and welcome back to the podcast. We are excited to be back for week two. and man, well so lots lots going on, lots of lots of things happening. ⁓ and so we are continuing with the idea of the month of September, which was just basically the idea that ⁓ we are creating or we are cultivating a culture of belonging. ⁓ and so with that, we talked last week about the difference between attendance ⁓ and belonging. And this week we are kind of taking it a little bit more into that belonging sense. ⁓ but we were talking about the idea of creating a safe and sacred place for our students. ⁓ and so with that, we are talking about emotional, spiritual, and relational safety. ⁓ and we are just basically going into ⁓ talking about the idea that safety isn't the goal, but it is the soil where transformation grows. And so students have to feel safe. Students have to feel like they are ⁓ they belong, ⁓ and they have to feel like they can be themselves in the space that they are ⁓ a part of. And so with that. I think more than anything we have to start with the question, ⁓ what would happen if a student in your youth ministry suddenly decided to be honest? what would it what would happen if they decided to throw out real and not not a church answer, ⁓ not the answer they think their youth pastor wants to hear, not the ⁓ I'm I'm good, I'm good answer. ⁓ but what if they were actually honest? What if they were like, Hey, I'm gonna be honest, I don't believe this. Or man, I'm I'm really angry at God right now. Or I don't understand why God would allow this. ⁓ and I I think there's a lot of those kind of questions, and maybe it even boils down to if I'm honest, I don't really feel like I belong here. ⁓ would they feel safe saying that in your ministry? ⁓ and I've had times where this works and times where this doesn't. ⁓ and so it's it's one of those one of those mindsets that ⁓ an open form of communication has to exist where students can feel like they can talk to you if you don't feel like that's a thing and if you don't feel like they are If they don't have the opportunity or they don't feel like they, then you need to create some method of communication where they can. ⁓ but would they feel safe saying those things in your ministry? Or maybe even a harder question, and this is definitely a harder one for me, would they feel safe saying that to you? Because there's a difference between a ministry where students are welcome and a ministry where students are safe. A student can walk through the doors and be greeted by five people, they can have their name remembered, they can play the game, sing the songs, they can hear a great message, they can even have friends in the room, and yet still not feel safe enough to be honest. So if students don't feel safe enough to be honest, we're gonna have a difficult time helping them grow. Because discipleship requires honesty. So you can't disciple a version of a student that they're pretending to be. You can't ⁓ You can't do anything but disciple a real person. And that's why belonging and safety are so closely connected. And so we're just kind of basically going one layer deeper than last week. ⁓ what in what actual environment makes this possible? ⁓ students don't need a place where they can show up. They need a place where they can say, I can be honest here, I won't be laughed at here, I won't be judged here, I can ask questions here. I can admit that I'm struggling here. ⁓ and ultimately I ⁓ hopefully our goal is that they can encounter God in our youth ministry. ⁓ students won't be vulnerable in spaces where they don't feel safe though. And so I think that's a that's a huge dynamic. And s David, what does safety mean in ministry? I mean, we talk about all those questions, but like what does it actually mean to be safe and to have that safety? Yeah, I I told our students and especially our leaders all the time if I mean, really, safety has to be our number one thing. and people kinda look at me strangely and go, but Jesus has to be our number one thing. And I was like, The truth is, if they don't feel safe to be in number one, if they don't feel safe as in like security safe, Jesus never happens in their life. They have to be they have to feel safe to be vulnerable. They've got to feel safe to have fun. All all these different things. There is so much in this world. ⁓ that our students know now because of, you know, information and technology and different things like that. And that, you know, there was a time where I think, you know, we talk a lot about, you know, when we were kids being able to stay out basically as long as we were back before the sun went down, like we were fine. It didn't matter where we went. Our parents didn't really care. ⁓ and I think part of that is because we didn't have the information back then that we have now of knowing how dangerous the world is. And so Like if our students don't know that that that number one, this is a safe environment to just be yourself, then they're not going to even come back, much less be honest and vulnerable and and talk about the things that Brent described ⁓ at the start of the podcast. And so I think it's incredibly important to understand that we have to cultivate an environment where students feel safe to be themselves. even if that means that it's different. ⁓ last week Brent talked about a student who was an atheist but felt very safe being in their ministry. Why? Because he wasn't he wasn't ostracized for being different. He wasn't treated any differently than any other student. And I think that that speaks volumes for who we are as people. Now you may not necessarily have an outright atheist person in your your ministry, but what happens when you have somebody who believes differently politically. What if you have somebody, let's be completely honest, ⁓ we can sugarcoat it, but it's it's the truth in every ministry. What happens when you have somebody who is gay or, you know, fill in the blank? That is totally different from your beliefs. ⁓ and and some people listening might be very open and that's different. what if you have on the other hand, Putting it in a Methodist context because it's one that we both understand very well. ⁓ we both belong to a global, kind of traditional Methodist church, but there are, you know, United Methodists that stayed ⁓ that way because they they lean more towards a well, I'm not going political, I'm just laying it out. ⁓ a more more liberal ⁓ environment that is welcoming towards LGBTQ and other things. ⁓ so say you are in a church like that and somebody who's alt right starts coming to your your ministry, how do you handle that? You know, I think I think it can be on either side of the spectrum here. again I'm not trying to I'm not saying any one thing is right or anything else like that. That's not the purpose of this podcast. The purpose is that no matter who walks into your ministry Do they feel safe to encounter God in your space? Whether they believe in God, whether they don't, whether they have different political leanings or ⁓ worldviews, do they feel safe to show up and to learn about Jesus in your space? Yeah. If they don't, it will never happen. ⁓ yeah, think that's huge. I th I think that's the dynamic right there. And if I mean if we're honest, like Emotional safety should mean that students don't have to constantly worry about being embarrassed or being mocked or being shamed. They have the they have an environment where students can be known without being humiliated, without where they can be challenged without being shamed, ⁓ and they can be honest without being immediately dismissed. ⁓ and so like emotional safety is a huge side of that. Am I good enough? Am I accepted? Do people like me? What do I what do people think about me? Where do I fit in? student ministries should should not become another environment where they feel like they're being graded. ⁓ that doesn't mean that we affirm or believe every belief or behavior that they have, like David just said. It means we care about the person. While we help them wrestle with what is true. Yeah, that's huge. And so I think the emotional safety side of it's a big deal. ⁓ they can make a mistake without everybody else piling on top of it. Secondly, is relational safety. And this one is huge. Like relational safety means that students can trust the adults around them. They know their leaders are gonna show up. They know their leaders aren't going to use their vulnerability as entertainment or like this extra inside edge. They know that adults aren't going to gossip about them. They know that their leader isn't going to suddenly become a completely depressed. different person depending on who's watching. Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ students don't necessarily need the most charismatic leader in the room. They need trustworthy leaders. They need a leader who remembers, who listens, follows up, who keeps appropriate confidence. And I think that's a big deal. If if you're s if you have volunteers that are in there, allow them to have the freedom of like keeping something s safe. and confidential to a certain extent, but then knowing where that boundary is too and being able to have those real conversations with a student and be like, hey, I'm I'm super, super appreciative that you told me this. But at the end of the day, like I I I can only go so far in confidence. When you start hurting other people or hurting yourself, I have to speak up. And so maybe also with this a leader that doesn't overreact. We talked about a couple weeks ago. David said, Have your leaders practice the reactions in the mirror. That's a huge dynamic to do. ⁓ and then a leader who doesn't make everything about themselves, and a leader who doesn't one up every situation or story that a student has. Having the mindset of you can trust me with who you really are is important. Had a couple couple years ago, I had a student that was like going through stuff and she was like, hey, just so you know, ⁓ I don't go by my name anymore. And I was like, okay. Like, what what what exactly are you like what what name do you go by? And she was like, Well, I I long story of family drama and things like that. But she said basically I don't I don't like the name that I was given because I I I have a lot of trauma with that name kind of thing like that. So that she was like, I go by a different name at school and she was like, And my parents are not super for it but she was like, When I turn 18, I plan on changing my name. ⁓ and I was like, Well that okay, that's totally fine. ⁓ that's your choice at 18. However, I do think that there is a conversation that needs to be had on the mindset of like what what God asks us to do, and God asks us to honor our mother and father. And part of that honoring process is the dynamic that like they prayed over that name. I'm almost positive. They spent time and effort thinking of how they would name you because of the the love and the care and the desire that they had for you. So, like I I I do feel like while that is your choice, I do feel like the honor your parents conversation does need to happen too. Understand where your parents are coming from, kind of thing like that. And so like we we can have those relational conversations. I also feel like there's a a conversation that can happen And I feel led to say this mostly because I think that this is a a major issue with teenagers in general. in today's world. ⁓ identity obviously is something that we stress at a constant pace throughout youth ministry. You will have the identity conversation a million times before you retire, if you retire. I think because of the worldly context of what we're calling trauma and different things like that. And and and please hear me say I'm not I'm not undermining by any means. ⁓ but again, there's a whole culture around ⁓ As someone who has some pretty major childhood trauma and abuse, ⁓ let me be frank in saying that you will never be able to run away from the trauma that you have faced. You will continue to find things that will trigger you that you will never expect. There will be times when somebody says something and you find yourself upset. It's part of living. ⁓ and I think that there has to be a deeper conversation. Like as much as like I love what you said. ⁓ number one, you honored the student. Number two, you try to honor the parents too, and reminding them, you know, the biblical ⁓ importance and significance of honoring their parents. But I also think that it's really important to consider ⁓ Dealing with the trauma in a sense. And and that might be a deeper conversation over several weeks that you get to have. But ⁓ I would I would encourage you in really any I'm I'm mostly saying this because I don't think that there's a single youth pastor who hasn't dealt with something similar. ⁓ maybe not exactly the same context of I'm changing my name legally, but there is a shift in culture that And I don't even know that it's a shift. I think it's always been there, but maybe we're just noticing it more now, is that students are more and more coming to a place of just running away from because I don't even want to identify the trauma and hurt that I have or deal with it. So it's easier just to change my name and not associate and just to pretend like that is in the past and leaving it there. And I think that there's some health to that. Like like I think that's a that can absolutely be a healthy perspective. in some regard, but I can also say that it's kind of like the old ⁓ baggage ⁓ skit guy skit that no matter how hard you try, that baggage is coming with you unless you deal with it. So I do think that there needs to probably be a conversation too of of have we have we dealt with it or are we just changing the name just so that you can avoid it? Because that that is something that will continue to be a an issue in that student's life until because let's be honest you we either deal with our issues or our issues deal with us. And I think I think ⁓ there probably needs to be a conversation there. and I may be totally in the weeds here, but I think especially talking about emotional and relational ⁓ safety. the student's never gonna feel safe until they deal with the issues. Yeah. Yeah, no, definitely. I I think that's I think that's fair. I think also just the dynamic of like with that comes I mean, hopefully to work on that relational safety, like we said, is just having those conversations and allowing them to be aware that you're not going to necessarily challenge their belief. in a way that's going to make them feel inferior or make them feel like they're wrong or anything. But you can also build that relational safety and that emotional safety to have those conversations to throw out nuggets where they can chew on it themselves and be like, Do I really Okay, so I don't I don't know how I I don't know how to answer that. ⁓ and they have to go do the searching on their own, which is a huge aspect of them I mean We say faith is a journey all the time. Part of journey is struggle. ⁓ and so we part of our job is to teach students how to struggle. it's you know, the mindset of struggling is what makes our relationship with God better. ⁓ and so emotional and relational safety are both huge. And then the last one, ⁓ I believe it's kind of overlooked sometimes, if I'm honest. ⁓ and that's spiritual safety. ⁓ and what do I mean by that? Can a student ask a theological question in your youth ministry without being immediately made ⁓ to feel like their faith is failing? Like can they ask you we we say all the time like no stupid questions ⁓ but like can can they actually ask questions in your ministry that maybe put them in a situation where they're like okay I don't feel like I'm up to speed with everybody else. and I I think there's different people that succeed at that. ⁓ and I I think that there's people that don't. ⁓ and so can they say, Hey, wait, wait, wait, I don't understand this. Can they say, wait, what does the Bible say about this? What if I have doubts? Or one that happens every now and then for us. I pray but I don't feel like anything happens. That one's huge. I think that is one of the biggest reasons why people are leaving faith. I think I I mean ultimately what you're you're getting at is that have we gotten to a point as a ministry, ⁓ as a youth ministry, where people can ask hard questions or questions that seem, you know, opposite of what everybody else is thinking or or Maybe even a perceived and that's the other side of it. Like sometimes we think, ⁓ man, this is a really left field question, and then they ask it and everyone else goes, Yeah, I've been thinking that too. And I think there's a little bit of validation in that when someone goes, I feel really stupid asking this question, and even one student goes, I've been wondering the same thing, and they go, ⁓ I'm not crazy. I'm not stupid, like I'm not the only one feeling this way. ⁓ and I think it makes a big difference. You can really make a student feel like ⁓ a more part of the group. ⁓ because maybe instead of asking questions like you shouldn't be or saying stuff like or even implying that they shouldn't be asking those questions, sometimes we ⁓ need to just simply say, Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. And they, you know, ⁓ in doing so we can create environments where ⁓ students learn that Christians aren't supposed to just have all the answers, ⁓ that we don't have to just pretend to know it all. ⁓ that sometimes asking questions, even if they seem dumb to you, as Brent said earlier, is faith is a journey. And so they need to learn that asking hard questions and wrestling with it is an acceptable part of living Christian life. Ask the questions even if you feel dumb doing it. That is perfectly okay. ⁓ eventually they're gonna if if we don't make it acceptable, eventually they're gonna stop bringing real questions at all to church. That's a dangerous spot. but ultimately we're asking we we don't wanna cultivate an environment where students stop asking the hard questions or the deeper questions. Because the truth is if a student feels like their question. Is dumb or not acceptable or not okay, they're just gonna stop asking questions. And I have to think, at least from my experience, when they get to a point where they're they don't feel safe and comfortable asking any question, it's not long before they stop showing up altogether. Yeah, no, I mean I I definitely think so. And I I think the dynamic of it is like If if they don't feel and we've said this all episode, if they don't feel safe, if they don't feel like they have an opportunity to be present and be real, ⁓ if there's no other ulterior motive for them to be there, ⁓ then they are gonna leave. They're gonna go find somewhere else where they feel accepted, they are gonna go find somewhere else where they feel like they can not pretend, or They're gonna fall into the fake Christian aspect of it and they're going to become really good at pretending. They're gonna learn what answers they're supposed to give. They're gonna learn what questions are acceptable. And we build a lot of fake Christians. ⁓ and that's And really dangerous. Yeah. Yeah, it is really dangerous. And I and I think if I'm totally honest, and I I may be again in left field here, here Brent, but what I've experienced, ⁓ at least in my ministry, is that I've seen a lot of a lot of these students that become adults that never break out of the cycle of that. Yes. And they get to a point where they're sixty or seventy years old. giving the same platitudes they did as a kid and they're no deeper, you know, fifty years into their relationship with Jesus than they were on year one. And I see that a lot and and I can't help and I've had this question and it it it both boggles my mind and breaks my heart at the same time. How many people are sitting in our pews saying all the right answers and don't actually know God. I mean yeah Terrifies me, actually. I I can't tell you how many sleepless nights I've had looking through and and you see, you know, biblically you will know my people by the fruits that they bear. And I sometimes look out into our pew and and I'm ⁓ I'm not throwing shade. This is absolutely me too. This is Brent too. But there are times where I look out and I go, I am terrified that there is somebody in this room who is pretending to know Jesus and don't. And not because of like they're faking it like in a intentional way. I think it's because they learned over time to fake it and they didn't even realize it. Yeah. And I am absolutely terrified that there is somebody who is going to get in front of Jesus and he's gonna say, Depart from me, you never knew. Yeah. That keeps me up at night, guys. Like it terrifies me. And I'm like We gotta be real. We gotta be honest and and and I have to look myself in the mirror just as much as anybody else and say, you know, the things that I'm doing, my relationship with God, is it real? Is am I asking the right questions? Am I saying the same things that I've said since I was a kid? You know? And and are they genuine? Am I listening to God more than I'm talking to him? You know, things like that. Yep. No, definitely. And I think I think there's a huge mindset for that. I think I mean a spiritually safe ministry isn't a ministry without questions. It's a ministry where questions become part of discipleship. ⁓ and if we aren't allowing them to ask real questions, then we're not going to create real Christians. ⁓ and so like that has to be in the like forefront of our minds when we have conversations, when we have reactions to what students say. ⁓ there is no such thing as a dumb theological question. There's questions where students are. ⁓ and so they have to understand. the mindset that like no question that is going to ultimately improve or strengthen their faith journey with Jesus is like not worth asking. so I think that's I think that's huge. But I I here's can go ahead. I was just gonna say I I think it's an important thing to dis distinct because I think a lot of us get okay, stop explaining just say it. sorry my brain works this way. ⁓ I love what you said about allowing students to ask questions because of where they are. I think that there's a a pressure that we put on ourselves and sometimes that we put on our students that the longer you know Jesus, the deeper you should be. And and and yeah, on the surface that's true. But what happens when life just throws so many curveballs that you're taking ten steps backwards and because of your shake is your your faith becomes shaky, you start to question the things that you believe, and so you're not going any deeper because you're now walking back and wondering, do I really believe this stuff or not? You know, and so when we th when we think another year with Jesus means we've leveled up, that's not necessarily true. Sometimes another year with Jesus is understanding that everything that I've learned this year, I maybe learned it wrong and so I need to actually go back and do the hard soul searching and stuff like that. And so I think if we stop assuming that everyone who has been a Christian for five plus years believes this, a Christian who's been a a a cr a person who's been a Christian for ten plus years believes this, you know, and and putting levels on it and just going, Where are you in your relationship with Jesus and meeting them right there? Yeah. No, definitely I no matter how surface level that might be. And so I I think i it comes into the dynamic and here's where I think this conversation can get misunderstood a little bit. We need to create safe spaces. ⁓ and some people hear that, but they assume that that means we shouldn't challenge students. We shouldn't talk about difficult things. We shouldn't make anyone uncomfortable, but that's not what we're talking about at all. Safe and comfortable are not the same thing. A comfortable environment says you never have to change A safe environment says you can be honest about where you are and we'll help you take your next step. And that is the phrase that I've used in my ministry forever. That is the phrase that David has brought up a bunch of times on this idea of like there is no such thing as a r bad step. We are all taking steps in our faith and we have to work together to take steps towards Jesus. Like that's what discipleship is. And so ⁓ that's a huge difference though. Like it's not that we can't challenge students, it's that we must challenge students. ⁓ and that Jesus was incredibly good at creating spaces where people could be honest. But Jesus also called people to be move, to be forward, ⁓ to move forward. ⁓ think about the people that Jesus encountered. He listened, he asked questions, he showed compassion, ⁓ he welcomed people, but he also challenged them. He didn't simply say, Hey, you're fine working. He invited people into transformation. And that's what we should want in student ministry. We don't want students walking away thinking that my youth group never challenged me. We ⁓ want students to have the reality or have the understanding of, man, they loved me enough to be honest, and they love me enough to challenge me. That's discipleship. Because sometimes the safest thing we can do for a student is to tell them the truth. Hey, this is going to be a bad decision in the future. You are going to pay for this decision, I promise you. But how we tell the truth matters. There's a massive difference between what's wrong with you and help me understand what's going on. There's a difference between you shouldn't be struggling with this and I'm glad you told me, let's figure out what faithfulness looks like here. Yeah, that's such a huge difference. Yeah. And there there's another dynamic of like, there's a difference between that's wrong and hey, let's let's talk about scripture and why this might lead us somewhere different. Yeah, at that point the difference is you're you're leading them to discover the answer for themselves. Yes. Not just telling them that they're wrong, judging them and saying this is what's right. Yeah. Well, and especially in the mindset that's gonna turn anybody else. Yeah, and especially in the mindset where it's like, you know, like we live in a world where it's like, Well, I feel this. I feel this and it's like, No, hey, I have my thoughts and my feelings, let's go to scripture and see what it says. Yeah, feelings are fleeting. We we gotta Yeah. We gotta be more careful there. Yeah. So truth doesn't require cruelty. Cruelty cruelty. Goodness words. Grace doesn't require avoidance and safety does not require compromise. I'm gonna say those three again. Truth does not require cruelty. Grace doesn't require avoidance, and safety does not require compromise. The safest ministries aren't the ones that have that avoid hard conversations. They're the ones where hard conversations can happen without shame. And I think that is a huge dynamic to understand as we continue to build what we're building in our ministries. This idea that, like, shame doesn't have to be a thing. And in fact, like we we are called to know shame. There is no condemnation in Christ Jesus. And so, like, ⁓ It's just this dynamic of like if if we are promoting the idea or promoting the opportunity for shame to exist in our ministries, man, get that crap out of here. Because that's not what we need to be doing. So, how do leaders actually build safety? How do we actually create this in this kind of environment? ⁓ I think that there are four leadership habits that make a tremendous difference. ⁓ consistency over charisma. ⁓ you don't build relational trust through one amazing night. We've talked about this before, where we do presence over programs. ⁓ you build it through repeat experiences. You said you'd be there, you showed up, you remembered, you followed up, you listened, you prayed, you did it again and again and again. And students begin to think, man, I can really go to them if I need something. That person is dependable. That's how trust develops. And sometimes we overestimate how impressive we need to be as youth pastors. I don't impress people. I am me, and my some of my youth group loves it, some of my youth group hates it. ⁓ but with that being said, like I don't try to impress my group. I'm not trying to do the next big thing. I'm not trying to do anything. They know my heart. They know my mission. They know what I'm doing. And I'm very, very vocal and I'm very, very upfront with my reasons and my whys. But at the end of the day, they know that what I do, I have a reason for, and I'm not gonna try and do something that's not me. And so I that's a huge dynamic. You don't have to be the funniest person in the room. You don't have to be the greatest, you don't have to have the greatest illustrations. You don't have to win every student over. Can we just like find peace with that? Yeah. Sometimes you're gonna have students in your ministry that think you're garbage or you're the worst person on the world, like boring, everything else, and they're not gonna really ever get it, and that's fine. There's still ministry to do. Right. You know, the funny thing, ⁓ I had a conversation with ⁓ a a former student who's an adult. Incredible parent and all kinds of things. but you know, one of the things that we were talking about is she had mentioned that she's like, Man, you are always so real and authentic and vulnerable And she's like, I feel like I'll never experience that again. ⁓ but she was like the one thing that always bothered me is that you put on this sort of front that everything was totally okay while it felt like the world was crashing down on you all the time. She was like, you you had this sort of like fatherly, I have to protect everybody from the world's problems. And she was like, sometimes we just wanted to see that it today sucked. And this is how I'm trying to deal with it. She's like, you were always so like it didn't matter how bad the situation was, you made it seem like everything was perfectly okay. Yeah. And I'm like, well, that's my job. And she goes, Yes and no. She goes, Yeah, you gotta handle it with grace, but sometimes you just need to say, Today sucked. And I don't know what to do about it. She's like, You never did that. It was always everything's gonna be okay, and Jesus is still in control and And she was like, Yeah, all of that was true, but how many times did we feel it too and we didn't know what to do about it? And she was like, I know you had the answer of what to do. But sometimes we just needed to hear you say, Today was bad and I I'm not okay with it because it made us feel human. Yeah. She was like, You have so much faith, and I think that's awesome, but like not all of us have as strong of a faith. To go, hey, today was awful, but God is still in control and I believe in him and I trust him because sometimes we can't get quite get to that point because it's like today sucked and like if God doesn't change it, I'm going to rage and throw something. Like she's like, We needed to see that too. And I'm like, Okay, I hear you. I don't know how to do that. I I like my my brain, I'm just I'm programmed from a heart. And mine standpoint is that no matter how bad the situation is, God is still in control. I believe that fundamentally and yes, there's bad days, but my mind doesn't go to the world is ending. Let's panic and be anxious. My brain just doesn't do that. My heart doesn't do that. And I think it's because rooted. Yeah. W I already know the outcome. Sure. Jesus is already won. He's overcome. And because of that, come what may, I'm not gonna be shaken. Sure. ⁓ I that doesn't mean I don't have hard days, but like hearing that I go, okay, I have to be more cognizant of when things are hard. Maybe leaning into the moment a little bit more and allowing the students the space to say what they need to say instead of just going straight into Jesus is already overcome and faith and and and all of that, like give them the space to vocalize where they're struggling. And then then when you know you've allowed that time then we can go into, you know, the spiritual promises of of scripture and faith and And knowing who who's still in control and all of that. I was like, okay, I hear that. It was it but it was a it was a hard thing that I needed to wrestle with because I'm like, okay, so you felt like you had times where that was but you wish there was more time for that. She was like, Yeah. And I was like, okay, so what does that look like? And we and you know, it starts so we kind of went back and forth and she was like, It's not that you never did it. It's just that sometimes the weeks got to a place where it was continuously bad. And maybe we need to just throw the whole thing out and just vent. You're not you're not pulling anything. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it was like, Okay, I hear what you're saying. She was like, I just wish you trusted us to vent what you were going through. And I was like, Okay, I hear you. Yeah. I hear you in that. Because with students, they want to feel like even though there's a dynamic of we're not best friends, they they treat they feel like you're As a youth pastor, they kind of feel like you're one of their best friends. And so sometimes we have to like Reach across the line a little bit appropriately, of course. You don't tell ⁓ all all the things that you would tell your accountability partner, but you know, let them know that it's okay to to wrestle with and vent with and and stuff like that. And that's where they start to feel like, ⁓ okay, you trust me with those things too. Like that it's not just us answer or asking and answering all the questions, you're also being vulnerable in the midst of it. Yeah. Which is a hard thing to do, especially as men. Yeah. No, no, I I I mean I definitely see that. That that Totally makes sense. ⁓ and I think that kind of goes into our next idea of you know, we're we're talking about, you know, how leaders actually build safety. We talked about consistency over charisma, but the second one is listen more than you speak. ⁓ and sometimes this is really, really difficult for youth pastors because we are communicators. We preach, we teach, we explain, we answer. ⁓ sometimes a student doesn't need an answer, they just need someone to listen. ⁓ and so instead of jumping in with, hey, here's what you need to do, or tell me more, or instead of here's what you need to do, try tell me more. ⁓ or what makes you feel that way? Or hey, so when did you start feeling this? What do you think that God's trying to show you through this? Listening just communicates the fact that you matter enough for me to slow down. And I will say that this is one of my weaknesses. ⁓ I don't don't throw weaknesses out too often, but this is definitely one of those. I've had students and I I used to take this as a mantle of pride and I'm starting to see it as maybe a maybe a shout out of a student neck like recognizing weakness in me is the mindset of and I've said it before in the podcast, just this she was like, Yeah, I go to other people when I need to feel like when I need people to feel bad with me, and then I go to Brent to fix it. And it was just this mindset of like, Okay, like I can I can take pride in the fact that I I am the fixer, but like that's not what I'm called to do all the time. Sometimes I just need to be the person that sits in and actually listens and actually just sits with them. ⁓ and so it is definitely something that I have ⁓ become aware of and it's something that I'm working on. I'm not saying that everybody has these things all together. These these things take time, they take effort, but they are super, super important to have. Third is respond without overreacting. Students watch our reaction. If a student opens up about something difficult and our immediate response is shock, anger, panic, or disappointment, what are they going to learn? They're going to learn I shouldn't tell adults things. Let's make an important distinction here. The reason why this matters so much for us is because let's be honest, if they were to tell their parents that, that's exactly what they're gonna get. They're gonna get shock, anger, panic, disappointment, grounding, t things taken away from they need a safe ⁓ person who is an adult, not just a friend. An adult who can look at them and go, Okay, I hear what you're saying, let's deal with this. Yeah, you know. ⁓ because more times than not, as much as we want them to be able to go to their parents, they're not gonna feel safe too. and that's why so many times I've had those conversations, okay. Let me let you know, let's walk through this together and let's go have because sometimes it's a really hard thing and you have to go talk to their parents. I've had those moments, but I said, You don't have to talk to your parents alone. I'll go with you. Yeah. I'll I'll lay it out. You're going to tell ⁓ what happened and I'll help lay it out and I'll mediate. Like that's fine. But I could tell you because of that, there have been so many opportunities where ⁓ especially specific examples of that grew the relationship with the student and their parents because now they know like if I can talk to my parents about this really bad thing that I did, then I could talk to them about anything. Yeah. You know, they didn't kill me, they didn't crucify me, I'm still standing out there, still standing. ⁓ they didn't kick me out of their house like I thought they would. Like the world didn't end. And guess what? The world is still spinning and we still love each other. Yeah. Like, ⁓ okay, great. Sure. That's something that we we have an opportunity to do. And so that's why we have to be careful about how we how we react because they have to have somebody they can with the hard stuff. No, and I and I think it's important to just kind of reiterate the idea of like consistent or confidentiality does not mean secrecy. ⁓ and so ministry leaders, like as ministry leaders, there are situations where we have to involve parents, pastors, counselors, school personnel, or the appropriate authorities. Safety means being honest about those boundaries. Students should never be promised, I'll never tell anyone. Instead, they can be instead they can be told, I will respect your privacy and I'll only involve other people when I need to help keep you safe or get you the support and help you need. ⁓ that's the actual part of building trust, not secrecy. So, and then lastly, following up. Following up is one of the I mean, it's one of the easiest ways to communicate that a student actually like their story or they actually matter. ⁓ it's just simply to remember it. If a student says that their grandma's having surgery, next week ask, hey, how did your grandma's surgery go? Not rocket science. ⁓ you have a phone in your hand more than likely. When someone does that, have the conversation and then pull out your notes app and say, so and so's grandma having surgery. And then literally just make that a recurring thing weekly to where you can look back at that note before youth starts next week. And be like, ⁓ hey, well they told me about this, they told me about this, they told me about this. You're not a better youth pastor for mentally remembering those things. You are a better youth pastor for following up with students that I that give you things to think about and talk about. So that may moment may be small to you, but to the student, it communicates that they were herb. And by the way, the way just a legitimate example, and I got rid of the details ⁓ just for Their own. ⁓ but I had I met literally met a student Sunday ⁓ after I preached and she had asked for prayer for her uncle. So I pulled out my phone and I showed her that I was writing it down because I didn't want her to think I was just texting and not listening to it. Yeah. You can you can literally demonstrate this, and I think it shows just as much honor to let them see and say, you know, how How do you spell that? I want to make sure and let ⁓ know. I'm I'm just writing this down for prayer ⁓ so that I can remember. ⁓ and then took the time to pray for her specifically there. Yeah. And then I will see her tonight and I will ask her about her uncle and how things are going. ⁓ it's only been a few days, but I'm gonna ask her. And I kept that at the top of my my prayer list notes. ⁓ stuff like that. When they see like, ⁓ they're not just texting and ignoring me, like, ⁓ they're writing this down, it's that important to them. It makes a difference. It really does. Yeah. We're not just saying that, like we actually do it. ⁓ I had a junior girl tear her ACL before school started this year. She had surgery last Thursday. I've checked in with her like three or four times, asked how things were going. She went back to school yesterday. I was like, Hey, that's wild. You like how like are you ready for that? Like I mean and she's like, No, I'm terrified. Like tomorrow's gonna be horrible and I'm like, No, well I You know, teachers are gonna give you grace, they're gonna give you they're gonna understand because like you're you're back in school, but it's a it's a huge dynamic. ⁓ and so like with that, it's it's a huge thing. They really have to understand the the value of having those conversations and they need to understand the value of ⁓ just basically being able to be real and then checking up and following up is huge. ⁓ and so, but that can be with injuries, that can be theological questions. If you don't know the answer, don't say you know the answer. Say, hey, I don't know. Can I can I study that and get back to you next week? ⁓ and then do it. Like, not just follow up with everything that you possibly can. ⁓ and so leadership challenge, safety cannot depend entirely on you. ⁓ you have to have a team, you have to have people that are knowledgeable and trained. ⁓ and so that with that being said, you have to establish group expectations. ⁓ you have to train your volunteers, you have to normalize questions. ⁓ allow people to ask questions, ⁓ and but students shouldn't be threatened by asking honest questions. And we don't have to immediately answer anything, but we should normalize the act ⁓ the understanding of, hey, I can ask questions here. ⁓ and then make follow up rhythms like we said. Just the dynamic of don't let meaningful conversations disappear. Whether it's prayer, whether it's anything else, like your goal is to make sure that conversations happen and stay where they're supposed to stay. ⁓ don't be intrusive, just be intentional. And then ⁓ just kind of a closing, because we're running a little bit out of time, I just wanted to bring up the idea also of ⁓ kind of bringing back to the bigger conversation that we're having this month about belonging. ⁓ belonging isn't created simply by having friendly people, it's created through your culture. ⁓ students need to know that they're known, that they're valued, that they're safe, and that they have a place in your ministry. And when we create environments like that, something beautiful happens. Students start telling the truth. They confess struggles, they seek wisdom, they pray, they begin to trust. ⁓ They let beg ⁓ they begin to let people speak into their lives, and that's where discipleship happens. But we have to get there first. And so here's the question I want you to wrestle with this week. If one of your students needed to tell the truth about something they were struggling with, would your ministry feel like a safe place for them to do it? Not just your preaching, not just your programming, not just your building. Your culture, your volunteers, your small groups, your leadership, your response. And maybe the most challenging question is what happens when a student tells us something we don't want to hear? Because that's where safety really is tested. It's easy to create a safe environment where everyone agrees. It's much harder to a create it when someone asks a difficult question, or when someone pushes back, or when someone admits they're struggling. When someone doesn't have the right answer, and that's where leadership matters. We don't create safety so students can avoid transformation. We create safety so students can actually enter into transformation. You can't heal what you're afraid to reveal. So, ⁓ you can't disciple what you're unwilling to discuss either. So you don't have to do anything crazy, but safety isn't the goal. Safety is the soil where transformation grows. And if we are not building and not facilitating that area, then students will not grow in ministry. So with that being said, I do feel like we are kind of at an end of our conversation. ⁓ and as always, just thank you for listening. Thank you for being a part. ⁓ we are trying different things technologically. ⁓ I really just need a new computer and I don't want to buy one. ⁓ and so with that we are we're we're working through some kinks and some difficulties on different stuff, but I do ⁓ thank you for listening, thank you for bearing with us as we kind of transition through some different tech stuff. Just just email Brent and remind him to get his crap together. It'll be great. Yeah. I need it. no. But so with that, like thank you for listening. Thank you for ⁓ just being a part of the conversation. Thank you for sharing this with your youth youth pastor friends. If you haven't, we'd love for you to do so. ⁓ we've had a great deal of growth in the last little bit, which has been a lot of fun. ⁓ and man, we're just we're more and more looking forward to just continuing what we're doing. it's a it is a It is a s a a fixture in mine and David's week. and it's something that we both look forward to each week, regardless of how busy and how hectic our lives might be. ⁓ but we we thank you for being a part of it. ⁓ and yeah, two hundred and seventy episodes, two seventy one now, and ⁓ we're I don't have any intention of slowing down soon. So with that being said, let's pray like we've been doing, and then we will see you guys next week. ⁓ before we pray, sorry, just one second. I also thought ⁓ we have been saying this ⁓ but we haven't had much traction yet. ⁓ we did change our website. ⁓ so it's smcpodcast.riverside dot com. It is through our podcast hosting platform now. So you can go on and you can access every episode that we have in our library on that ⁓ website. Also, we have a newsletter where we are releasing extra extra kind of insight and content on each episode ⁓ that is available to either just go online and read it or you can sign up for our newsletter and you can have it emailed to you weekly. ⁓ and then just basically the mindset of we are doing anything and everything we can think of to make your time better. So if there's anything else that we can help with or any other resource that we can provide that would be beneficial to you, just let us know. ⁓ or if you wanna help out with a resource potentially we're down for that too. ⁓ Me and David definitely don't have to be the only voices in this, ⁓ because we want it to be a place where everybody has an opportunity to be heard. So with that being said, let's pray real quick and we'll see you guys next week. God, we thank you for creating a place where we can come to you honestly. Thank you that we don't have to pretend to be. ⁓ d we don't have to pretend before you. Help us become leaders ⁓ who create the same kind of environment for our students. Give us the wisdom to know when to speak and when to listen. Give us patience when students have difficult questions. Give us compassion when students are struggling. Give us courage to speak truth when st ⁓ when truth is needed. ⁓ and give us wisdom to know how to care for the students you've entrusted us with. Help our ministries become places where students don't feel like they have to perform. allow our ministries to become places where they can be known, places where they can belong, places where they can ask questions. In places where they can encounter your presence, and ultimately places where they can become more like Jesus. We pray all these things and we ask for boldness and strength for the youth pastors listening to this. ⁓ in your name. Amen.