Latest / Chirping Zebras / NAOKO FUNAYAMA | Chirping Zebras Podcast | Ep #114

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NAOKO FUNAYAMA | Chirping Zebras Podcast | Ep #114 · Chirping Zebras

• Mark Riley: Welcome everyone to Chirping Zebras. Mark Riley virtually alongside Gino Binda. And we want to welcome you to another Zebras episode. Before we get into it, and our guest today was fantastic. I want to thank our sponsors, the referees Creese, and your one stop shop for all your referee needs from scheduling and payment to training. They do it all. Also, want to thank AOA Studios for what they do for us. ⁓ if you're looking for a studio ⁓ They are up in Beverly and you can ⁓ check them out. Also, check us out on the social medias, the Instagram, the Facebook, and of course the TikTok. Thank you, Gino. Also, ⁓ please like and subscribe on YouTube. That would be awesome if you do that. And that way you can stay up d up to date on all our episodes and whatnot. And on trippingzeebus.com. You can find all our merch and all the information that you need. And ⁓ today's guest. ⁓ we you can't say enough. It was such a cool conversation. Nako Funayama from the National Olympic coverage for NBC also has worked with the Red Sox and the Bruins and and the New England Revolution. What a great guest. This was the first time, I think, that we got asked more questions than us asking them questions. Yes. She interviewed us. True. True professional. And I hope all you crazy hockey people, all you especially youth hockey people, take something from this episode 'cause I thought it was pretty good. ⁓ you know, the first twelve minutes are just pretty much audio because you know, this is our first ⁓ we'll figure that one out. Yeah, first time doing this ⁓ producing us ourselves. So ⁓ yeah, we had ⁓ we had some fun with this one. Yeah, no Narco is just ⁓ you can tell true professional and is good at what she does. And she wanted to learn a lot about refereeing and and kinda where our heads are at as as referees and it was kind of cool. ⁓ you know, and then we got to learn about, you know, her career path and she worked four Olympics, which is kinda cool. ⁓ that's awesome. Yeah, it is. I mean any profession you do when you wanna do what like the the the you know, the top of the top of the best of the best and you know, she did that in her profession. I mean that's pretty cool. Yep. So without further ado, enjoy our conversation with Naoko Funayama. I believe that is a zebra on the ice, Bill. How did he get on the ice? Trip, trip. They still can't get him off the ice. This is crazy. Here comes all the zebras. It's a out there. You can't do that. Doesn't matter. Zebra side. Hello. Hello. Welcome to the zebras. We're so happy ⁓ you could join us. I am so happy to be here. I'm so sorry my background is so boring. I know. Where are you, Gino? What's happening? I'm in my basement. I I should be outside, but the pollen's gonna kill me, so I'm gonna I'm gonna go tuck back into the basement for the the episode. Okay. Where it's nice and cool. The AC is cranking, so I'm good. Th they're they're just gonna clip the part where you go, I'm in my basement. I'm gonna do that, don't tell Love it. You already got a reel. Look at this, ten seconds in. At least it's your own house, Gino, and it's not your mother's. So that's good. No. Could be worse. I'm I'm still on scholarship though, that's the problem. Did not happen. Nothing For those that know. Do ⁓ you guys miss playing the game? I do miss playing actually. ⁓ I I get asked ⁓ time to time to play, like in a men's league, and it's always at like ten o'clock at night and I'm ⁓ half asleep at nine and I might I'm like, No, I'm not doing that. But like I can't commit to a to a league. I got so much stuff going on, but I I would love to get out there and play again. Hold on one second, sorry. There you go. ⁓ wow. Yeah, the clappa going on. At the line. I I didn't know that there I can't. That's hilarious. It's so bad. Although I was like trying to I couldn't tell if it was motion sensor or sound sensor. I just got our second clip. If you have to do a jumpin' jack or something, just go ahead. We'll we'll edit that out. Yeah, I really trust you to edit that out. ⁓ I gotta find an old commercial. Clap on, clap on. That's hilarious. That's that's a first time. ⁓ Creating retro on your podcast. What library are you at? I'm I'm just at our town library. ⁓ it's ⁓ it's actually really nice, but but yeah, hopefully I'm not being too loud. I always worry that at libraries like the the walls are are not exactly soundproof, but ⁓ so I have my headphones in. Well, so they don't hear your cheeky comments. The way with one has a quiet room. It's probably good you have those headphones in, let's just say that. I know. You get thrown out of the library because of us. What's funny about you bring up libraries how nice it is. It's funny. All these towns are building these beautiful libraries and but like no one really goes to the library anymore. So the Weymouth do they depends, right? The Weymouth one's really good. They built a huge sick park right behind it. So it's like Attached to a park, so kids go like I would bring my kid like my oldest daughter loves books. So we take her to the library, young one goes runs off and then, you know, she'll trickle into the library at some point. But yeah, it's kinda genius. Thirteen and ten. Well, ⁓ she'll be eleven next month, so Yeah. So they like just hanging at the library. Yeah, actually like the kids kids like hanging at the library. 'Cause now it's not just like books, like you said, there's a playground and then there's you know, a maker space and i a teen section where you can play games and all that. So it's kinda fun. All So I'm gonna date myself 'cause back in the day the library for us, I bike there with a h like a pocket full of dimes and we'd get the Encyclopedia Britannica and have to copy all the pages we need and then take them home on the bike to write the you know, then to plagiarize from it to write the paper on whatever we were writing on. So that's my memory of the library. We didn't I didn't like to read either, so it wasn't like I was hanging out there. So that's I guess why I'm I I'm not a library guy. But ⁓ all in one. You got your workout in, you bike there, you get your school work in. Ish. Very ish. But okay, so I have a lot of referee questions. What is the experience like of being a re have you guys ever refed like kids youth hockey? ⁓ yeah. ⁓ that's yeah. Yeah, so I saw where we started. And that's where we finish. It's gonna be the death of you, is that what you're saying? I'm not I'm not joking. I'm not joking. The last game the last game I did was actually the the Bruins ⁓ black and gold game, but the the last game I really did was ⁓ you know, national championship game in division one. And the next possible game I'll probably do is a like a squirt game or a mic game because now it's about giving back and developing and you know, helping out the next generation of of referees and You my daughter's ten, she'll be fourteen soon and you know, she'll start refereeing, but I'll probably get on the ice, you know, before that. But yeah, it's it's a wild scene, the youth hockey nowadays. It's it's absolutely wild. I mean, how you know, how difficult is it to make calls, right? Off sides is one thing. Coverage. But like how difficult is it to call like some of the body contact stuff? If you're a trainer, I of think there's like a gray line, right? Well Well, there is, right? ⁓ one hundred percent. I mean, ⁓ I'm a supervisor at Division One on the women's side and they still haven't figured out body checking and what it looks like. ⁓ you know, so like the PWHL is doing a great job with kind of introducing what it does look like with the you know with the women at the highest levels and they can handle it, right? But if you introduce that in all of women's hockey, it'll be, you know, kinda scary 'cause not it's not an even playing field, right? The elites of the elites can probably handle that. But You know, to identify what's a body check and what's not. ⁓ you know, the rules have identified what is and what isn't and they've made it kind of clear now to everybody kinda watching the game and officiating the game what it looks like, right? If your sticks down and you're playing the puck and the purpose of the body check is to separate the player from the puck, not to put him in the third row, right? So if you're doing all those factors And you know, there's there's no out of bounds in hockey, right? So you got the boards and and the biggest thing I find is players not protecting themselves. It's not the actual body checking. It's the players not being ready to be hit and ⁓ they're off balance going over by the boards and I'm doing everything right and now I just pancaked you into the boards just because we made body contact and I actually didn't even throw a check, but I'm getting thrown out of the game and you're hurt, right? So it it is very difficult because the players aren't playing the game properly or actually protecting themselves. So like, you know, what looks really bad isn't sometimes. You know, I 'Cause I was thinking about like I was thinking about like because I've been to so many youth hockey games 'cause I do have a kid that plays hockey, but I was just thinking about how you know, when a player f falls on the ice after y you know, the players kind of like all go for the puck and then Parents are screaming for a trip or an elbow and I'm like, Is it though? Like for expansion. They're unbalanced. Yeah, you're like, there's a difference between like so like I sit there, like I'm I'm educated, right? So like I sit there with parents and they're like, That's a penalty. I'm like, No, it's not. They just they were both going for the puck and they they collided and one one kid's stronger than the other and that kid just I go like I a lot of times I yell, keep your head down. Like I I talk out loud through through games, so I I tend to stand by myself. So if someone stands next to me and that's on you. like He tends to yell and s and it a little bit too. No, I I talked to myself, but like it just you know, you know, and then I'm like, ⁓ that's a good call that that's a penalty. Like, ⁓ why was that a penalty? I'm like, Well, you know, she or he extended their arms or, you know, didn't play the puck and actually just went for the body and, you know, could have avoided the check or Whatever, like there's there's difference between a trip and a toe pick, right? Like the stick's down there, there's no action, and then the kid goes down because like, you know, he just goes down, right? There was no action with the stick and everyone's yelling trip when in fact there was there was no trip at all, there was no action with the stick. I I think too, ⁓ I mean for me, the younger kids are tougher sometimes than the older kids because again, what's a collision? What's on purpose? You know, did the kid just fall because he you know he's he's not balanced on his skates yet. And you also have a lot of new parents that may have not been exposed to a lot of hockey or may not have played. So they have no idea what's going on. And the referees at that level typically are less experienced because they're you know, that's where you start. Might squirts, you know. ⁓ so there's that issue too at the same time, you you know, you got everyone learning it. players, the coaches and the parents and the players and the referees. So it's like that can make it difficult. And you know, we all know parents have so much patience. You know, and and never lose their minds. So much. You know why why why is it that well, and I and because I'm a parent, I I'm allowed to say this, why is it that we get so bent out of shape so quickly over kids sports. I don't I don't quite understand that part. 'Cause like you y you I don't I think it's just ⁓ it's a raw emotion, right? It like you want your kid to succeed and you kinda like I'm not very like living vicariously through your kid, but like some people are though, Gino. Some people do. Yeah. Some some people, you know, like i you know, you and I played college hockey. You know, if our if our kids play college hockey or not, we're not living out a dream of ours through them. So You know, there therein lies the difference 'cause you already lived the dream. We I already live my dream ⁓ of playing college hockey. I don't need you know, ⁓ my daughter played. I didn't need her to play in college, so I felt some type type of you know, validation. ⁓ and I think that's a that's an issue with with a good amount of parents and I I don't wanna say a lot of dads, but you know, men are tend to be not as bright. You know what I mean? Like Well but you see how much it your kid puts into it too, right? And when you see ⁓ get wronged or you know, or they get put into a situation where, you know, they're vulnerable and they can get injured, right? Like it's just your natural human instinct to react. Like I mean you see the videos of parents running on the fields and ⁓ on the ice, you know, all sorts of stuff, right? Like like my daughter got hit with a puck and she's a goalie and she screamed and I'm like, My my my wife opened the fucking gate and I'm like, Shut that you know, shut that door, she's fine. I'm like, don't you go out that ice. Don't be that mum. Yeah. I'm like, it's it's fine. She'll she'll live. It's like it's not a light like she didn't get caught with a skate, like there's no life or death situation. That's when you run out, right? But ⁓ but yeah, I think Gino, you might agree with this too. ⁓ where we refereed, especially at a high level, we recognize, you know, fairness and we recognize mistakes by the referees. And this doesn't necessarily just you talkie. I coached high school. And when I saw things done wrong, it pissed me off as a ref. It's like you should be doing that. You know, right. So I think it makes it difficult too when you know what's right and what's not. ⁓ yeah, you're not. Did we not record? No, we're going to No, we are, but it just says I'm I'm looking at the thing saying audio only. So I'm switching to video recording right now. I don't know why it's ⁓ no. All right. Video recording. Welcome again to the zebras. Video style. Video style. It's okay. I I feel like so my friend and I we have a podcast as well. And I feel like every single time it doesn't matter how many times we do the recording, it's like okay. Is it working? Which is like funny 'cause we're all technically capable people. Well, technically i it's so Josh Dolan, our producer, is taking some time off for you know personal stuff. So this is our first time being producer and host. So for those who don't know, we just did twelve minutes of audio only and so might be a boring first twelve minutes. But that's okay. Josh, come on. There was good material in there, you know? That's all right. We'll make it work. I'm I'm sure we talked about genos allergies. My no chirpy comeback is No, I I had nothing. I had nothing. I was like I'm just glad to fight my mother's. That material was already I know. I had nothing. I I used all the I used all the good ones ⁓ yesterday at the golf tournament. Yes. Yes. We at you guys where'd you guys play? So we we didn't play. Actually. ⁓ we were at Granite Lynx for the T Off for Heroes. It was a big fundraising event for the Warrior for Life Fund. ⁓ the V you know, the out of out of Virginia Beach. They helped the current retired Navy SEALs and Gold Star families. And ⁓ it was a huge event. So we taped the podcast before and then we sat on ⁓ they have three courses there. So Granite Seven, it was a part three, and Gino, myself, Tony V and PJ Thibodeau, we chirped everyone while they were teeing off. And it was maybe one of the one of the best times I've had. Yeah. So That sounds super fun. Plus it was really nice weather yesterday too. ⁓ it was a perfect day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Little breeze. Are you guys big golfers? ⁓ yeah. Are you guys big golfers in general? Or do you have to go golf? Whereas I'm a member down the Harmon Yeah, I'm a member down the Harmon ⁓ the Harman Club in Rockland. ⁓ no way. I love Greg Harmon. He's a best. Yeah, he's the best. Yep. He's awesome. I go when I'm invited or I play as a celebrity in a tournament. So that way it's on the it's on ⁓ scholarship. It's on the house. You know? So that's how I play. I just gotta get you a bag tag. That's all. That's all. But we we definitely wanna talk. I mean, ⁓ well, you had some questions for us. If you wanna you wanna get back to them. I mean, 'cause we have ⁓ obviously we have tons of questions for you too, because you've done some way cooler stuff than we have, but I don't know, like you guys have done very cool stuff as well. You've been front row and center to some really awesome, amazing hockey games. True. You guys like like when did you decide to kind of make the switch over from from player to referee and what was that culture shift like? I had no choice. So It's true. It's true. Wait, what do you mean? ⁓ like that's yeah so I I I mean I was eleven years old so like my daughter's turning eleven in August like I Like she's ready to start refereeing tomorrow. But ⁓ Massachusetts laws don't let you do that. So ⁓ she has to wait 'til she's fourteen. And, you know, I I just started refinging and playing all the way through and I once I just stopped playing in college, I just, you know, decided to try to make a run, you know, work pro hockey and and that kind of stuff. Went out to the U S H L for a season and then went out to the East Coast League and the American League and then, you know, college hockey and that kind of stuff. So yeah. It was always kinda part of it. It was always hand in hand. I was always in a rink. ⁓ Gino's dad is a legendary referee here in, you know, in ⁓ New England. And you know, so Gino had no chance. That was you know, he he had to run. You know was fitting chicklets ⁓ podcast, right? So they had Brendan Walsh on and I just saw the reel of him when he was on it. This was like way when like Chiclets kind of first started, right? Really. While she was telling him the story about how my father wouldn't kick him out 'cause it was dot day and he wanted to go. So he was like murdering people. And my father's like, I'm a fucking throwing you out, right? And then like Millberry was there watching him and he got like a scholarship or something. 'Cause like he goes, Wow, you created all sorts of space. He like, Well, no shit, that was called That is a great story. Well and your dad threw your dad threw Ryan Whitney out of a game, out of a semi final in the prep tournament. So he threw Mike Greer out too out of a out of a game, yeah. ⁓ they played at St. Sibs, yeah. Wow. ⁓ wow. So wait, you did you guys play with Mike Morrison? Say Mara or no? He's see older. Mike Morrison the goalie? Yeah. Yeah he's older. Wasn't he Saint Sebs? Yeah, he went to Saint Sibs too, yep. ⁓ he played with those guys, yeah. R Whitney's a year younger than me. I'm an eighty two. Morrison I think is like a seventy nine or an eighty or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm I'm older than all of them. So that's okay. Yeah, I'm good friends with Mo. He's great. Yeah, he's he's great. ⁓ my kid ⁓ my kid t ⁓ gets ⁓ does a camp where he's where he's one of the coaches. so that's my yeah, and then he also played with ⁓ played with like a couple of people that I know. So back to Well yeah, he so like when he was coming down from like his pro career, he finished up in ⁓ Where is it down in Florida in the Everglades? ⁓ so like I refereed him ⁓ in the East Coast League, like at the back end of his career. Yeah, it was kind of fun. Well, you know, I think we always have a like the hockey community being so small. Seems like everybody has a connection to to everybody. Like we're all kind of connected in this. Now, did you is your kid a goalie? Yeah, he's a goalie. ⁓ yeah, so is my daughter. Yeah. My daughter plays goalie. Yeah. How how are you handling that? ⁓ ask the ask Mass ask the Mass State tournament. ⁓ yeah, you know what? All of it, right? Yeah, the the s the goalie skills, like yeah, we're going we got two trips coming up. Yeah, hell yeah. It's not just a sport. Yeah. But you're through and through like you're you're like through and through hockey, right? Like you still love it. How old is your son that's playing? Mine's a peewee. ⁓ nice. Okay. Yeah, I like Old school. Old school terms. I like it. Old school terms. Yeah, old school terms. Well because like ten new stuff all the time. No, no. Or he's a you know, two thousand whatever. Yeah. I'm not gonna clap 'cause then you're just gonna clip it and say like I'm doing the clapper. No, do the clapper. We love the clapper. See it's not It didn't work. It didn't work this time. Hold on. Double jacked. They killed the lights at the library on you. It's gonna turn off again. That's I think it needs movement. But it's weird 'cause it's like a meeting room. Why would it anyway? Yeah, why would it darken? That's crazy. I don't know. I don't know. All right, tell me like a favorite crazy refereeing story. I need to know these things. ⁓ well mine told a couple times. Yeah, we've swell on this podcast we've totaled out of craziest, but I had I had a game with three hundred and four minutes of penalties in Richmond back in the East Coast League. That was the record for the league. Stayed it it stood up for ten ten years until someone called three ⁓ six. But yeah, that was a crazy crazy night in Richmond, Virginia, Hampton Road. Because it was a it was so there were so many sights. Huge line brawl in the second period that lasted like twenty five minutes. ⁓ We had a butt end and a spear. We had an abusive official. We had ⁓ c one of the kids, Kimby Daniels, swung a stick at my head on the third period. So we had all kinds of fun stuff in that in that game. So that was probably the goodness. Yeah. That was probably the one that stands out for me. How did you not like just be like, Peace out, this is too much. I'm done. It w just part of the job. I pulled out my riot pad. And I drew a smiley face and wrote I'm fucked and instead of writing down numbers and ⁓ just watched the chaos ⁓ and unfold. Yeah, yeah. So ⁓ it was just one of those like I had had similar situations to that in the US H L. ⁓ when I was I I was similar to Gino in that I worked the US H L. I was I actually out there with Chris Rooney who worked the first game The other night in the ⁓ Stanley Cup game one. ⁓ we lived together out in Iowa for a season and ⁓ and saw some stuff and then went to the East Coast League and and then, you know, that's that's where a majority of my pro hockey happened. So what is like a typical path to becoming a professional referee? I mean, is it you know, Gino's path of like you get in early, you start co you start reffing. Mites and peewees, squirts, whatever, and then you kind of like make your way up. Or is it you we'll start another podcast for that question. Yeah. I have questions. No, no, this one's great because I I I quoted But it's different it's it's it's different for everyone ⁓ but now it's much different than before. So like Gino started when he was eleven. I played through college, hurt my back and found refereeing to stay involved with the sport. and did a year of high school and then went off and did juniors and pro. ⁓ some people started mites and squirts and worked their way up through juniors and then college. ⁓ you know, the ⁓ the NHL path used to be kind of what we did. ⁓ I got hired by the NHL and fired a week later. But that that used to be like that. Now it's it's much different. Well now well now it's it's a lot different, but you know, especially with the dynamics of Everything junior hockey's gonna get reshaped right, ⁓ you know, just because of what the N C double A's doing if this all thing goes down and passes. But, you know, there there is a lot of merit to going out to the US H L and working like, you know, the best junior league out there and conquering that and then, you know, getting in getting yourself into pro hockey and then like in along the way, like no different like what I that's exactly what I did. Like I ref Division One College hockey, then I went out to the US H L, conquered that league, and then worked the minor pros right after that. And you know, worked your way up. ⁓ there's still that path and, you know, that's probably the best path to go. ⁓ you know, I I run a lot of junior programs that, you know, kinda feed into the division three three leagues and those are great opportunities for guys that, you know, want to get into college hockey or not necessarily pro, but like it's a good start if you're young. ⁓ we I had a seventeen year old kid work our junior final, right? So, ⁓ like in you know, this another kid when he was seventeen, he just he just in college graduating and he just worked the US H L final and now he just got hired by the East Coast League and, you know, he's part time there, but he's probably gonna go back to the US H L or something like that. ⁓ and that's the development path, right? you know, we we have a lot to offer as far as like college hockey goes. There's there's all sorts of different walks to paths to take. And the NHL right now, with their their biggest thing, if you want to ref in the National Hockey League, you gotta be a former player. ⁓ you know, and you gotta go to the NHL combined and they stick you right into the American League and they've put some guys right into the National Hockey. ⁓ I don't necessarily think that's the best way to do things, but ⁓ that's just me. I think, you know, there is a lot of merit to grinded it out for four or five years and you know, seeing a hell of a lot of hockey before you get to the best of the best. I get video replay, I get you can teach these guys at the highest level, you can do that and you can speed up the process a little bit. But there's nothing that takes like Chris Rooney said it his whole career. He's he's I don't know how many Steen the Cup finals. He goes, the only way you get better is by experience. And these guys don't have it. And experience is the biggest thing if you want to make it to the National Hockey League or any league. experience is the best is the only option. A all these guys want to do shortcuts. Like right now I'm getting I'm getting text from from people from other college leagues asking about guys that that you know wanna get into those those leagues and I'm saying no they they cut the they cut the process, right? They went in and did other things and they're not ready yet. ⁓ give them time. ⁓ wait, this kid is ready. ⁓ let's let let's promote him, right? So ⁓ if guys want to skip steps ⁓ there's only a handful of opportunities at the highest levels in these college leagues now because division one college hockey, it's where it's at because you it it was it's ⁓ just like the American League almost, right? They're feeding more kids into the National Hockey League than than you know, the American League and East Coast League now. It's almost, you know, probably fifty fifty are getting there. What's been the biggest change? What's been the biggest change in how you make calls? Video. ⁓ I'm not Not how you make ⁓ I think video replay has a lot to do with it. It's how you like but ⁓ the video also has a lot of great stuff because you could educate, right? And you can pinpoint and identify ⁓ things like ⁓ you can identify things like, hey, is there extension, is there elevation? ⁓ no, if you if the answer is no, then most often than not, that's probably not a penalty. And you're processing that in a matter of seconds, right? And we got some There's a lot of good language produced now. There's a lot of there's a lot of good teaching stuff, ⁓ now. But But I I think it has changed, you know, I think replay has changed it a little bit because guys that came up before replay, you have to trust your gut. You gotta make a call and you live with it whether it's right or wrong and there's no fixing it. And now the the referees have that kind of security blanket that they can go and look at it again under certain circumstances. Not every call, right? But ⁓ and that gives them that ability to, you know, rely on that a little bit. And I'm not saying everyone does. Like I s like I said, coaching matters, right? So like how I how I run the Atlantic hockey and how ⁓ Brian Murraffey runs it in Hockey East and a lot of other ⁓ NCAC does it this way, I believe. And most most most Division One college hockey, you know, tells our officials go referee through replay, right? Like force the coach. But some still do. Some still do. Like I mean, you gotta admit that a lot of guys don't go with their gut now. Yeah, but like if you if you teach it and coach it, you know, you can you can control the replay and control the gut and control that that whole area. It's it's I've seen it done, I've done it and I I've watched it for for a couple of years now, ⁓ being executed. So we're we're getting these things live. It's the ones where, you know, ⁓ you know, you you gotta it's all about education, right? And I'm I'm blasting out clips every week going, Hey, these are head contacts, these are here for behinds. So when these guys are going into the weekend, they're fresh, they're ready to rock and roll. So they they're they're getting these fucking things right. for for nine out of ten times. You know, all these coaches get frustrated. Well no, I mean I'm telling you, I'm telling you a lot of videos. Well, it's not ninety percent of the time. Come on. Well, it's like I mean, there's one like yeah, I mean though I mean those videos are the ones where we're breaking down, did he get ⁓ like we're we're fucking nickpicking, right? I I mean those are the the the ones I show with like the hard ones. Not not the ninety not the ninety percent of like, you know, everyday hits and things like that. We're not running to the fucking booth. These are these are the ones being challenged. Like there's d if if nobody on the ice has a major penalty, ⁓ we're not going in to look at it. We're not gonna go, ⁓ that might have been a major. If you don't have your arm up, you know, and and n none of the linesmen have it, sorry, we just missed that. ⁓ challenge it. And then we'll we'll go in there and if it's not it if we have to elevate it, we'll elevate it. But ⁓ you know, but you like the video. You like the video, do you like the challenge? Do you like that aspect or you wanna get it, right? You wanna get it. But when I when I'm out there and you see a play and you're like, ⁓ I get to go look at this and then you go look at it and you're like, Wow, that now it's even hotter, right? And that's why you just gotta you gotta you gotta just get it live. And I can live with the fact of a miss call and I can live l live with a miss minor, I can live with a miss major. Well like The head contact ones are the are the hardest because, you know, we ⁓ those ⁓ did he you don't always have an angle at those, right? And the head might be changed and did he get the shoulder first, did he elevate, like it did he nick ⁓ or did he throw his head back or there's all sorts of factors and variables in those. But ⁓ the I mean, to your question, like what was it, like the hardest the hardest thing is the the rule changes. And you know, we're we're constantly changing the fucking rules. Your answer was still wrong, you forgot the question. Right now, because I had another point. Okay. We're gonna have like a referee episode and then the other subject. Yep. Well you can use this for her podcast. Yeah. This is just base now I I'm so curious. I love I I love talking about craft. Everybody's looking but anyway it's just I mean not even hockey, right? I won't even talk about hockey with rule changes. I will talk about football with rule changes. Look how frustrating the NFL is with their calls on pass interference, ⁓ in the end zones, what's a catch, what's not a catch. ⁓ they're they're constantly trying to go error on player safety. And, you know, okay, let's change it this way. So forever and ever the referees are looking at a play. Saying, wow, that's a legal play when someone just hits the fucking bell rung and now I'm looking at it going, ⁓ wow, what a hit. ⁓ shit, now it's a flag. Ugh. Right? So like you know what I mean? So like the rule changes are constantly now you like constantly gotta get up on your training. You constantly gotta get that experience and see that, right? And and where where are the NFL referees gonna get that training? In exhibition games, like is that enough? Right? Or pract a couple of practices you go and ref and and see those live scrimmages, like is that enough? ⁓ to But because those plays don't happen every fucking game, right? Sorry, I I get emotional. ⁓ you know, those plays don't happen every game, right? So like when they do, you know, when they happen that like five or ten percent of the games you like you you work and then that one play happens, like you gotta be you gotta be on it. You gotta be a hundred and ten percent on on the ball. And if y'all not acclimated to that constantly and forever and ever, you're just trained that, ⁓ wow, that was a good hit, and you're like, ⁓ fuck, now that's a penalty. I just blew that call. Right. So I think it has a lot to do with with how the rules are changing and ⁓ it it's messing with the referees a little bit, but the good ones can can adapt. It it's good that you talk about those challenges because I think it'll make people appreciate the art of refereeing a little bit more and the challenges and what it takes and like I I personally love the referee or rules analysts that they have for certain sports on T V broadcasts. Because it really just takes you into the mind of okay, like what are they seeing? What are they looking at? What are they considering? because it's easy to sit on the sidelines. I mean, especially especially in going back to Youth Hockey, especially in Youth Hockey, it's easy to be like, Hey, that's a penalty, that's a trip when you're like, Or is it? Or is it just like the kid like just lost his balance? You know, so there's so much that That goes into it as you get higher and higher up the ranks of the sport. So I personally Yeah. I personally like that you guys are talking about it. Okay. Okay. So big question. Big question. Is there anything AI could do in the hockey landscape of refereing, do you think? As far as what? Like so for example or robotics. Okay. AI or robotics, let's say. Okay. So for example in baseball, right? They're taking a look at ⁓ you know, a more accurate form of calling strikes and balls. So I it so this question stems from the fact that I had a discussion with my little kid and, you know, he's all like bent out of shape about, you know, ⁓ the ref you know, the umpire was calling strikes and they were up here. And so I was like, well that's okay. Like one you know, I was telling I was joking. I was joking. I was in the back one day one day it's all gonna be one day it's gonna be all roboticized and everything's gonna be accurate. So you're gonna have nothing to complain about. And then he goes he goes, But but that's not fun. And I'm like, okay, so which one you wanted exactly asked for? ⁓ and I thought that was really interesting that, you know, part of the game that's that's fun is to the discussion around, you know, what is the game? What sh what are the lines, what are the parameters of the game? Right. So in that sense, is there Yeah, I think that sounds like do you see hockey? I think in hockey, really, I think the place it would help and I think the only place it might work is whether or not the puck crossed the line completely. Soffsides too, but then you're eliminating I mean i yeah, it might work for offsides, but with the goal you have a s a a specific area that the puck can go in. So if you make that somehow have some type of field and put some chip in the puck. If that thing goes over, you know, we know it went in. Now whether or not this can be done, you know, and change the you know, the the integrity of the puck, I don't know. But I think that would be really the only place that it it might work and and would help for sure. I mean, you know, all those times where did it go over, did it not, you get the parallax view of where the camera is and where it looks and different angles and stuff. That might work. But I think too, what people have to realize is sometimes the umpire or the referee just sucks and they're not good at their job. You know what I mean? Like it's just sometimes I dealt with it when my daughter was a softball pitcher. It was like her strike zone was like this and everyone else is like that. Now of course I'm the dad, but It it seemed that way and you just like I used to tell her sometimes, Hey, you know what? You're gonna have to deal with it that he sucks. So throw better pitches. You know? I don't know what to tell you. You know? Yeah. So unfortunately that's like adjusting your game to the official that you have. Yep. And if you're good, you're good. If you're gonna hit the ball, you're gonna hit the ball. If you're gonna calls better than the other team anyway. Right? Like two or three calls are gonna go your way, two or three calls are gonna go the other way. And it's all a mindset, right? Like everybody goes in dick and they got screwed that day, right? Like you got screwed by the ref, you got screwed by the coach for ice time, you got screwed because you know, the traffic was was there and we were late. Like so like everybody's like you said, everybody's trying to find an excuse why, why, why. So, you know, we're just part of it. Instead of looking at it and going, Maybe the other team was just better than us, you know. Yeah, right and holding yourself accountable, of course, accountability and Taking responsibility is gone for the most part with my daughter My daughter has come off the ice and looked at my f my father and goes, Hey Bob, do those reps work for us? They sucked. You gotta fire them. That's awesome. I'm like, How old are you? I'm like, No, they didn't suck. You just need to stop the pocket. Like no. It's like ⁓ it's just funny. Like it's just like it's just like your natural human nature element, right? Like they don't want to say, she have that heavy Southie accent too. No. That would have been so perfect. Yeah. That would have made it even better. That's awesome. The big the the the thing about referee and especially hockey, it would and I suppose it ⁓ applies to every sport, but you could have the perfect game. You could literally get every call right and nail everything, and there's still a team that's pissed off at you. There's still someone in the building that thinks you suck. And that's Part of the mindset that Gino talked about, you have to be okay with that. You have to not let that bother you or chain you know, impugn your t integrity of what you're calling. Was my boss happy? That's all I cared about. Was my boss happy that night? Was the supervisor happy? What do I need to work on? What did I miss? Off we go. Let's have have a drink, right? Like ⁓ put it behind you and move on. Yeah. Yeah. I always my my whole thing, my I I keep saying to all the kids when they get all you know, crazy about stuff like that and start acting, you know, probably unprofessionally. But you know, they're kids, whatever. I'm like, hey, I always say be a Bergeron. Get out there, show some class and go score some goals. Like be a Bergeron. So that's my whole that's my ⁓ that's my parenting line. That's a good that's a that's a good player to ⁓ like sick in Boston. Be a Bergeron. Be a Bergeron. At some point it's gonna stop translating and somebody's gonna be like, Who's Bergeron? But right now it's still working. Bergeron, Bergeron. So now if that's all your referee, if you have any more, well we can Yeah, I have lots more referee questions, but I don't wanna like take I'm sorry, I feel like I'm skipping over the episode asking like questions about refereeing. But you know, like I'm very like I'm interested in in the human ability to make decisions, right? Like so you see something and and the thing is like with hockey, everything happens so fast. So how do you train yourself to see something that happens in the blink of an eye? Right. Like do you have like do you play video games? Do you you know like what do you do? What's like your external training regimen? Experience. Experience, really. It's it's I I liken it to cr stand up comedy. I tell people who wanna be a stand up comic, the only way you classes, it's not gonna do anything. you have to get up on stage and do it. And the more you do it, the better you get at it. And refereeing's the same in that you can't learn it you can learn a lot by watching and you know, in anything you do, you can learn a lot by watching, but until you actually do it and do it on a regular basis and for a l over and over and over in that repe repetition, you you know That's the way you train your brain. That's the way you learn how to do it in the most effective way. And and I think Gino, you would agree too. One thing that people always wonder is, you know, there's linesmen and there's referees. And I know guys that are awesome linesmen that have no interest in refereeing because they are a different mindset. Well, re linesmen, if you think about it, they call offside icing. And That's really all they're all. And then, you know, they see hand passes, high sticks, too many men. But that's pretty much their main Used to break up fights. ⁓ but their main calls are offside nicing. Referees, you have a potential two hundred calls a game and you have to use that discretion and you're you live in that gray area. You know, some of the calls obviously are obvious, but some of them aren't. And you have to make that decision. And and there's referees like I never wanted to be a linesman. Because I liked having all that pressure and all those decisions. And I you know, so it's there is a different mindset to wait, is it different training for Linesman number three? Like is it two different tracks? ⁓ yeah, there's definitely two different tracks. Yeah. But like it all coincides, right? So like you you come up in the two man system or official system, however you wanna call it now. ⁓ And you you call everything. So you're you know, you call in all the penalties, offsides icings, you do everything. So like when you switch to the lines, you just have different responsibilities and it's a different, you know, way of skating the game, but like you're responsible for the offsides icings dropping pucks. And then the referees are responsible for everything, which is like, you know, supporting the linesman and then calling all the, you know, penalties and and dealing with the coaches and that kind of stuff. And, you know, referees ⁓ like how we do it, like they they line in ref, so you a lot of guys do both until you get to like college or pro, right? And then you kind of figure out your path. ⁓ but yeah, they're they are two different paths, but ⁓ to to get two different personalities. Absolutely. Sounds like Yep. And I would answer that by you when like something happens in a split second, right? I call it you're guessing, but you're not guessing, right? ⁓ you see it like you like you see the result of something where you're going, okay, that just fucking happened, right? ⁓ you see like you don't necessarily see them, then you see the extension follow through and the contact. You're looking for clues. There's there's certain things, especially like indicators, right? Like the sticks up. Okay, now now I'm high high highly focused that that stick might hit the hand. So I'm yelling, Hey, watch the stick, watch the stick and then sometimes the kig will get the stick down, right? So like I'm already trying to preemptive guys. Like if someone's coming into the corner fast hard, you know, with and you know, they're they're coming like and they're about to hit somebody from behind, I I yell easy, easy, watch the back. Or, you know, you try to like protect them throughout the game in in that kind of sense too, right? And then, you know, you you just see something and you know what the hell you just saw, because you've seen it a thousand times and your arm just automatically goes up, right? So like things happen quickly. Yeah. And one hundred percent and and building that gut, you know, trusting that gut, but building that gut up so that your arm there's penalties that ⁓ when I see ⁓ my arm just goes up. Like the violent stuff, yeah. Your arm just goes up. You don't think, you know, there's no time. Right. Yeah, you put your arm up and figure out the call later. Like But with like but with like a trip or a hook or hold, sometimes you wanna let the play develop and see if it made any impact on the play. So like Guy gets tripped, but the puck goes right to his teammate and he keeps going, there's really no effect on the play there. You know, ⁓ you can let that one go. You know, we're a cross check into the boards from behind, there's no discretion there really. It's that's a penalty. So there's a lot that goes into it. But again, experience. Experience, experience. The more you see that, the more comfortable you are with making those decisions. Have you ever had like a moment of What did I just see? Did I see what I just saw? You know, ⁓ 'cause I'm I'm likening it to like well because like for example, right, if if you witness a car accident, right? You think in your mind you saw something. You you're like, ⁓ this this this happened and as you start to tell the story, like you know you know how some people just kinda get frozen, like, wait, I think that's what I saw, right? And then you start to not trust what you saw and like does that ever happen to you on the ice? That's that's when you that's when you see something on the ice. And then you go to video replay and you go, What the fuck? I just saw that all wrong. Yeah. It happens all the time. Yeah, right. Like in sometimes. No, yeah, you could correct the wrong. ⁓ you know, and that's that's why the the video replay is not a bad thing, right? So like you want to get the call right, but and then you go like and then the coach hey, listen, from my sight line that looked very violent and it didn't get him in the head and you're like, All right, well relax. I gotcha. Like you're not you're not penalized, like easy. How do you like emotionally take those reactions to ⁓ there's a there's a six pack of Bud Light waiting for you. No. That's where Gino and I differ a lot. ⁓ What's your method, Mark? What's that? What's your method for madness? I I typically will kinda just I stay calm and I use humor. I use humor and I usually make fun of either people or situations and I usually ask questions back and sometimes they're questions that are irrelevant to the situation and it just confuses the coach. You know, like they're yelling about something and I'll just go over and compliment their shirt tie combo. And then they're like, What the hell does that have to do with anything? And I'm like, nothing and I skate away. You know, like so but there are times where that's actually good. You there are times where you get ⁓ I get emotional too. And and you know, you y i if like the same kids bitching and bitching and bitching, finally you gotta you know, you gotta say something or you kinda react, you know, ⁓ like challenging Andy Shire, the captain of Richmond. I told him I'd take off my shirt and fight him at Center Ice and embarrass him in front of all his fans. and he didn't take me up on it, which is probably good. But you know, you do get to that point where you're like, Mark already had his shirt off when he said it though. I added a half off. Come on, half off. ⁓ my But some people are better communic like I can I'm a good communicator, so I communicate a little more than someone else might if they're not as comfortable with that interaction. I like that. Communication's a key. That's like, I mean, you you gotta use it either humor, however you need to do it. Communication's everything, right? Like the the the biggest complaints I get from coaches like. I didn't even fucking talk to me. What's his like ⁓ I ⁓ what's his attitude, right? Like, ⁓ what's his fucking problem, right? So if you don't give your if you don't give the coach any part of your character or anything to go, ⁓ hey, he's not like give him a couple wins or something, right? Give him go over and say, Hey, yeah, you're probably you're probably gonna be pissed off at this one, but hey, we missed that fucking I didn't see that stick hit the kid in the in the face. I'm sorry your buddy's leaking. I go, I know he just didn't cut himself. I go, but nobody saw it. So I apologize. I owe you one. How's that? Now they ⁓ it's the oldest one. And then you and then like the easiest penalty, Stevie Wonder can call the next one. You go over and say, Hey boys, I got your back, right? We're even. Who gives a fuck? They're moving on, right? And it's just you're just playing the game, right? Like and and sometimes get it, sometimes don't. Yeah. It is enough. I thought you were gonna I thought were gonna say, ⁓ I'm sorry, he's leaking. I didn't see that. By the way, great tie. Well th yeah, there's times to joke and times to be To be contrite. Can you imagine? You gotta know those right and lose it. ⁓ yeah. No, you gotta you gotta pick and choose your spots there, you know. But even the language you use, like I I we preach this, like even just saying from my angle it wasn't a trip. So you can't argue that 'cause they can't get you they don't know what your angle was. If you say it wasn't a trip and the video shows it was, well now You lose credibility. If you say from my angle it was a trip, you know, now he says, Well, from my angle it wasn't. Okay. Well, we'll agree to disagree. You're looking right at it. You know. You're staring right at it. But you know, it's it's all in how you handle those situations. And and how you know, if you go over and say that was a trip, you're wrong, well that's not gonna get you any you know, as my father said, you get more bees with honey than vinegar. So it's true. I you know, Mark, you kind of like referenced ⁓ that Richmond game and and feeling like you may had to have potentially have a physical interact altercation with with somebody. So like do you guys prepare physically as well? I mean obviously the cardio of having to skate an entire game, yes. But do you also do strength training in the event that you have to actually have some physical I don't want to say altercation, but like just A physical that you gotta handle. You have to be in the best sh you have to be in better shape than like the players really. Like ⁓ really? Like yeah, there's a lot of physical testing done at the the higher levels and and things like that nature. But like you thought you'd Yeah, 'cause you you're skating way more than than the players are. And if you're hoffing and puffing your your head's not thinking right and now you're you're foggy and you're not thinking clear and now you're you you're hoffing and puffing and you're going And then now you're not getting in position or you you like I always say everything kind of coincides, right? Like you gotta you gotta be in shape to get your best judgment, you know, like you gotta skate to position so you can get the best, you know, give yourself the best opportunity to have the best judgment, right? So like if you're not moving and skating and getting in position and you know you're not gonna see the play clearly. Hey coach, and you're gonna go how many times you can tell the coach, hey, I didn't see that clearly, or from my angle, coach, like you can't be saying that all game when there's clear penalties going. Right? Like you gotta use that once or twice and and move on, right? And then you gotta you gotta make sure you're not missing those ones. So that's why you have to be in shape and so you can get the best chance to get it right. Yeah, very f very few physical altercations. I mean that you know, that's it happens but not not the higher levels. But but but but like you have to like if you have to break up a fight or whatever, like you have to be strong enough to be able to separate two players. Right. And it's it's leverage too. Like you're on skates. There's ways to to to, you know, twist the guy's arms and, you know, get ⁓ and kinda control ⁓ a little bit or whatever and guide ⁓ but you're not really wrestling these guys, right? Like you kinda let them kinda fight it out and there's there's ways to get in there and kinda control their arms and keep ⁓ safe, right? And when they go down to the ice, like you protect their heads as much as possible and the skates and everything else. So Yeah, there's a lot there's a lot of training involved in that part of it too. So yeah, it's ⁓ not you just don't jump in there and just start wrestling guys 'cause like if you like we we clicks all the time, especially in the juniors, guys are grabbing people from behind and it's like, buddy, you're gonna get killed. Like, yeah. Like they're like just trying to pull ⁓ and you can't pull ⁓ that way. You gotta get in and wrap their arms and now you got ⁓ right? Like they're not going anywhere right like once you wrap their arms, like no they're done. One of the one of the best lines men in the in The NHL historically was Ray Scapanello and he was, you know, tiny for you know especially our standards now, but he wasn't a big guy at all, but he was one of the best at what he did. And so there is a benefit to being big, yeah. ⁓ for sure. But you know, it's not it's not necessary, you know, ⁓ to do your job and do it well. Steve Barton, who's an NHL linesman now. He ⁓ he's not a big guy and does a great job, you know. So I g I mean, I guess I don't know if that answers the question, but Well okay, so what ki what p what type of personality do you think ⁓ is attracted to this as a profession? Mental patient. I think you were gonna say somebody who's mentally patient. No. No, you gotta be you gotta yeah. It's you gotta love the game. I think you gotta love the game. You you gotta love the game. ⁓ and you gotta wanna be involved with the game. And you do have you know, you do I think most referees that take it real seriously have a sense of fairness and, you know, wanna see the players stay safe and and compete and you know, ⁓ be held accountable. I don't know. one of the biggest things I think is a big misconception for especially youth hockey, right? Like we're an adult out there and I'm a referee and you know, the the the biggest thing I hate is when parents like, Don't talk to my kid. It's like, listen buddy, I'm trying to help your kid out here. Like I'm I'm also like an like a teacher too, right? Like Yeah. So like my my whole thing is like like you see those like youth hockey U eight, U sevens, U sixes, right? Like they got out there, they got refs dropping pucks in little rinks. Like what the hell is that doing for the hockey? besides just mucking a referee up on a s on a Saturday, Sunday morning. Save your fucking money. Put it back in the program. Stick a coach, two coaches out there, and it's a and it's a it's a teach the play, right? Or if you want, stick two kids out there, the referee jacket, right? Not a shirt. And have him go out there and be that teacher as well, along with, you know, ref in the game and dropping pucks. And, you know, because like these kids aren't even lining up. And you know, you got my uncle out there yelling at him for to line it up. Hurry up. Line up, let's go. And I'm like, dude, there's six, there's seven. They don't even know where they're they don't even know if they're coming or going. Right? And then he's dropping pucks and then people are yelling at him and everything else, right? And I'm getting calls from programs. I'm like, over you six game. And I'm like, why why do you guys even have a ref out there in the first place? I don't think your uncle is a good example of anything. But that's the point, right? You got you have to have a referee out there. So he's out there fucking pissed off, right? And he's already he's like, What's going on? Now it's now an hour game's taking an hour and twenty, right? Because you know right? An hour game's taking an hour and twenty and he's going just because these guys aren't even lining up and they're you know, the the coach is talking all over the bench. It's like, why isn't the coaches out there pointing in? Here we go. Right? Like I I just I we gotta rethink how we're doing something. Well, there's a there's a referee shortage in every sport now. It's not just hockey anymore, it's every sport. you know, and and that creates situations where you have people refereeing games that they shouldn't because of the level. Well, you know, their experience. And and this ⁓ I know this happens in every sport. I have friends who are so soccer refs and lacrosse refs and it's the same across the board. Umpires, you know, you got eighty year olds umpiring softball because there's not enough young people to do it. You know, and they shouldn't be out there, but they have to be, or else the game doesn't go on. So that's kind of a problem across the board. And part of that, you know, part of that plays into that is that the crazy parents, you know. I mean, let's face it. No one really wants to get yelled at all the time, and especially if you're younger and you're you know, you're not sure what you're doing. You're fourteen, fifteen, and you got these crazy parents screaming and yelling. You know, you know, I'll just throw it out there, Mark, just because I'm not crazy, Mark. I'm not crazy. I don't know what a kid talking about. I'm not crazy not all the parents are crazy. Not all I'm very quiet. I'm very quiet. You know, like well, because like when you're in the business, right? Like when you're in the business at a professional level, whether it's you know, what I do sports or what you guys do ref, I mean, you see the youth games so differently. Yes, one hundred percent. Yep. You know, you're not you're like you're probably the one that's like, ⁓ god, I can't be here I can't be associated with this type of parental behavior. I think the bis big mis Exception is like all these games are all horrible and everybody's yelling and screaming, it's all sorts of toxic and this and that, right? Like I vet guys all the time. So like when like I I field a million phone calls on the weekend. So like I'll grab like I just like I I I'm a talker too, so like I'll I'll start shooting the shit with somebody and I'll go, Hey, let me ask you something. ⁓ how many games have you ref this year? And they go, ⁓ I don't know, about a hundred and twenty, whatever, right? Youth games. And I'm like, out of those hundred and twenty, how many were toxic? How many were you like, I don't want to fucking do this anymore? And they're like, ⁓ maybe about ⁓ you know, four or five out of like the one twenty, like that's a pretty good percentage, right? And that that's that's not bad. And it's not all toxic. There's a lot of good and what what goes on out there and it's just like ⁓ he's just this toxic environment. Like you just saw it in Foxborough this weekend, right? Like that nut. And you know, it's just like that's not every that's not every day. It just gets highlighted now with social media. Yeah, I was just gonna say social media, it's like the ⁓ I call it the plane crash theory. Like, you know, the news isn't gonna report the thousands of airplanes that landed safely that day. They're gonna talk about the one that crashed over the last year or whatever, right? They same thing with hockey. The only thing we see on social media is the parents fighting or the co you know, the referee getting attacked or all this. They don't put out the thousands of games that go on without anything. You know, so a lot of non And this could be any sport, but like especially hockey, non hockey people see that and go, ⁓ hockey's just, you know, out of control. And it's like, Well, you're only seeing a small percentage, very small percentage of what actually happens in these Yeah, parents yell at every game, but that's gonna happen, but not all parents try to attack a referee every game. I've never had that happen. And I've refereed thousands and thousands of games. I I think social media is is a p a problem. Plus these kids are playing too much hockey. Every sport now is specialized. So no matter what sport your kid plays, they want your kid playing twelve months a year. And that's not healthy. Not from at an athletic standpoint, from a mental health standpoint. And that and then especially for the parents. They're paying all this money and their kids playing twelve months of the year, and not all these kids want to play twelve months of the year. And so and not every parent wants to be at a rink every weekend at seven AM. She's missing goalie skills. And once a week she's going. ⁓ I'm not saying either of you are the parents. Gino's like, you better dial down on that. I'm not saying I've said for my girl. They actually turned down the three on three tonight for baseball. So how's that? No, that that's what I mean. Kids they the experts say kids shouldn't specialize till fourteen. The more sports your kid can play until they're fourteen, they become a better athlete. That's what it is. And then they can apply that athletic ability to whatever sport they want to play. You know, baseball helps hand eye coordination. That that obviously factors into hockey. But if you're never playing baseball, 'cause you're playing, you know, hockey twelve months of the year, you're never gonna get that athlet that begin a volleyball athleticism. You know? I just saw her s awesome Walmart volleyball ⁓ routine I'm gonna have her do before games. ⁓ volleyball. Yeah, hand eye coordination, right? Yeah, yeah, she loves it. I set one up in the yard and like my neighbors every day. Yeah, that we Every day she kicks my ass. Keeping you humble, Dad. No, but I love that. I love that. Like, you know, ⁓ soccer gives you the cardio and field awareness for hockey cardio, but then the hand-eye coordination in hockey helps baseball. But then if you're you know, if you're also playing tennis, that might help your baseball swing. Like there's so much that different sports can do for Just about basket. Well, i if you look like look at Herschel Walker. Herschel Walker used to do ballet to help his balance right and his and hit the flow of his movement. I think Bo Jackson did the same thing. So it's like it doesn't have to be, you know, another sport, but just another activity that helps your overall athleticism, you know. Yeah, I was talking about that the other day. So the ⁓ major league baseball pitcher Yoshinobiyamoto, he does judo. And so his routine, his warm up routine, his preparation routine is all based on basically physical awareness of his body and how he can he can max, you know, like use his body's strength to the maximum so that he can put the most amount of speed on his pitches, right? So like there's like it's all related. Yeah. I I'm a big believer in playing different sports too. You know, I'm a big believer just in general. Like if we all just played sports for a living. We just be so happy. ⁓ You got maybe you get a lot of pissed off millionaires playing ⁓ out there now and I never got that either. You know, you're getting thirty million You're getting thirty million to be a mediocre pitcher in the email. You know, and you're complaining. It's like, shut up, dude. There's people that can't buy groceries and you're complaining that, you know, some reporter asked you a question, like, come on, get a grip. You know? I'm not naming names, but there's plenty of them out there, you know. Wait, was I the reporter? No, I think I we have questions for you about that. Yes. No. You covered four Olympics. Great segue. Right? Four Olympics. I mean that in and of itself is incredible. Right? And you kind of you did different things at each one. So I I know and you ⁓ we talked a little bit about Milan when when We met at Kevin Stevens, you know, ⁓ recovery cup. But talk about some of your favorite Olympic moments when you were covering ⁓ gosh, there's so many. Well, so the first two Olympics I did were during the Covid era. So Tokyo, which was supposed to be twenty twenty, became twenty twenty one. And that was ⁓ that was interesting 'cause you you just you didn't have ⁓ you didn't have fans at these at any event. And so you would go and the the stadiums, the arenas, everything will be empty except for the people that work there, some family members and the players slash athletes. And that was it. So what was fascinating about that was, and I and I this actually happened at Gillette Stadium as well when I was working with the revs during COVID, for the first time you could hear everything in the stadium. So you could hear the players talking to each other. You can hear the the coaches commands. And like you just have never been able to, you know, n no one's ever been privy to that. So that was kind of wild to be like, ⁓ that was a really motivational thing to say, or ⁓ I see that's what they're trying to build on this play. so that was really interesting. And then ⁓ the two latter Olympics, Paris and Milan were on a completely different end of the spectrum in that it was so incredibly well attended and it w there was so much enthusiasm around it, but also there was so much engagement. ⁓ and credit to NBC really for making sure that the programming was available ⁓ in every which way you consumed content. So if you were like an appointment viewer, you always watch A PM prime time, y it was there. But if you like, hey, I'm one of these people, I just wanna like take a quick break at work, see what's going on, you could hop online and you could check out what's going on live or you could check out the highlights of what happened that day. If you're just like a social Instagram, TikTok user, it was all there in little small bite sized pieces. So I think that was wild to see sort of like the arc of, you know, what Olympics was back in twenty twenty one and then what it became. by twenty twenty six. I mean it's just a five year span and it was so different, you know? Do you guys ⁓ yeah. I couldn't you know what I got hooked on was curling. I couldn't stop watch well hockey I watched every game possible, both men's and women's unbelievable. It it coincided. I had that whole week off. So I watched curling for like six hours a day. I still don't know what the hell was going on, but I watched it. And ⁓ but I like the Olympics for me, whether it's summer or winter I watch as much as I can because it's sports you don't get to see on the regular basis. And that's what's so awesome about it is that you get to see things and you're like, you know, when am I gonna turn on synchronized diving? Like let's be real. I'm I'm not gonna go find that, but I'm gonna watch it when it's on the Olympics 'cause it's something cool and different. Yeah. What did you like, Gina? I liked ⁓ I mean, I just like sitting there watching all the different events and my wife's a big ⁓ She likes the stories and like the like all the stuff that leads up to to people and then like she like, ⁓ I remember this one from the four years ago and like the all that kind of stuff. I love like that that part of the Olympics where like ⁓ this this journey or this this guy just made it because of whatever and you know sorry, I think are you in this room? Getting kicked out. Okay. Yeah. You're not getting booted, are you? No, but somebody just reserved this room and I forgot to extend it, so but she said her client's not here yet. So No, good. Sorry. ⁓ well. It's all good. It's all good. We're like, hey, let's talk about the Olympics. ⁓ wait, no, hang on. I'm getting kicked out. What was did you like the winter or summer games more? I love winter. I mean I like I like all of the Olympics. But I I'm just in general a winter sports enthusiast. So I love the winter. I love being, you know whatever, like you're when you're from Massachusetts, you're like, okay, it's cold, it's winter, you gotta have stuff to do and so you pick up like skiing and skating and all these things that to stay active in the winter. And so I think that's that's why like I love the winter sports. ⁓ But also it's it's a lot of it is stuff you watch and you're like, wow, like I would have never thought to do that or I could never do that. Like the like the snowboarding ⁓ half pipe. I mean it's crazy. The superpipe is crazy. Like if you stood on the edge of the superpipe, like so that's a half pipe, it looks you know, it looks like a half cut ⁓ tube. But it's like straight down. Like you'll be a really advanced skier and still feel fear when you look down. And these guys are like jumping off it like it's nothing. So it's crazy. Okay. Anyways, I gotta go. ⁓ let me see if I can find another room. Yeah, it's funny. ⁓ she's back. Hello. No worries. I can prop it up somehow. Okay. And I we didn't stop fancy. We didn't stop recording, so we should be offset when we stop. Everything should upload. Should I explain that I'm suddenly in a different room? ⁓ no we can ⁓ Is it we can joke 'cause we can leave in that you left and then we'll just be like, You're back. That's all. ⁓ sorry, Charlie. No, no. Make it work. That's all it is. Make it work. Anyways. Okay, sorry, Gina, I know you were telling us which Olympic sports you really like. ⁓ No, I like ⁓ all. I I just like watching, you know, just the the whole thing of it, right? Like all like all the sports. Just like like Mark said, the ones that like Y you normally won't see like the archery and all sorts of fun stuff. But I was getting ⁓ we we were in ⁓ Utah last year for my daughter's ⁓ we were in Park City for a tournament and we went to the Olympic Village and they have all sorts of activities for the kids to do and tube rides and climbing and this and that. And it was awesome. Like we sat there and watched these guys go off the ski jumps and do all sorts of stuff into a pool. It was awesome. Like we went in the summertime, so it was ⁓ like You know, it's crazy. And these mountains Where were you where were you guys? Like Fox City's awesome. ⁓ Fox City, Utah. Yeah. ⁓ that's awesome. So nice out there. So nice out there. This last Olympics you covered the cross ⁓ biathlon. Biaffon, yeah. You hap Did you happen to watch or get to cover any of the mountaineering? No. No. Stupid. It was stupid. We know. It was like well you appreciated the athleticism though, right? Yes. ⁓ one hundred percent. One hundred percent. Wild. But skiing up a mountain to ski back down? What are we doing? We're getting in shape, Mark. They're athletes. We're pushing the boundaries of human ability. No, I think we're running out of things to to do in the Olympics. They just keep adding stuff like I I equated that to like break dancing in the summer Olympics. You know what I mean? They were just like, let's try something. Let's make them ski uphill, you know? In the middle of it, run up a flight of stairs. We were talking up with how high was the guy who came up with that sport? That's what I want to know. Hold on. I'm gonna I'm gonna see if I can prop this up because this is just like it's har it's too hard to just keep holding it. but yeah, you guys can you guys can tell me what we got a See, yeah. Okay. Now I really look like I'm at a library. There you go. This is too much. This is not ⁓ this is not MBC, I guess. Zombie recorded my ability to Alright, here we go. Is that bad? Now you can see Gino's in his basement. At least you're outside of his basketball. Gino being in a basement. We're very concerned for Genoa. ⁓ No. I look like I'm somewhere nice. It's just my little apartment. So you know. We do what we need to do to podcast, right? Exactly. Exactly. Mark walks around with that backdrop behind him. No, I know I've seen it. I've actually seen him walk around with it. Yeah, she I had a thought. ⁓ I show up at a power forward tournament here, Smart, with his little backdrop. You guys ready for an interview? It was great. It was so great. It was awesome. Like I just show up, he has like banners and this and camera. You know, it's boom, boom, boom. Like it's like suddenly a promotion. I'm a little theatrical. I'm a little theatrical. That's okay. Right. ⁓ Yeah. So you covered you like you've been On the sidelines of a few different sports. Yeah. What's your favorite sport? What's your favorite sport to be involved with? Because you were at the Bruins for a while, the revolution, hockey. I mean, I love hockey. Like I love soccer too, but I love hockey because and I know y and like a lot of people that I know who love hockey appreciated for the multitude of skills that a player has to have in order to be good at the sport, right? So you have to be a a good skater, you have to be a good puck handler, you have to be a good shooter. Like there's so many different things that you have to be good at. I mean, it's the only sport in which, you know, you have to combine the the but it's not running. It's not it doesn't involve running. It involves skating. And so you have to have a very technical skill there too. So I think that's why I love it. It looks there's a grace about it. but it's also exciting. It's fast, it's fun, it's you know, when you see the best players play, it's what an awesome game. I love it. I love it. So like like we referee, right? And like our our goal, our you know, every year is to, you know, when you work in the higher levels, not necessarily youth hockey, but is to work the final, work playoffs, all that kind of stuff. And, you know Like everybody has different jobs in all these sports. You got trainers, you got, you know, equipment people, you got you re we got reporters, you got team doctors, you got all sorts of different stuff, right? So like when you set out for the year, like what are like, you know, in your profession, like do you have like gear goals of these things ⁓ I want to be appointed to this position, like what are your what like when you, you know, gear up for the season, like what's what are your goals in ⁓ you know, it depends from year to year. Like I always love being on the Olympics team because that's kind of like the epitome of of television sports. it's the best of the best, the cream of the crop. I mean, everyone from the you know, the producers and the field producers to like the technical staff. I mean, everybody is just so good at their job at the Olympics. And they're also they also want to be there. And so there's like this passion. There's no like, ⁓ I'm tired today. Like there's none of that like if you were in a job every day for three hundred sixty five days a year, like th there's not that fatigue, that job fatigue. Everybody comes in there with fresh energy and enthusiasm and that's what that's what I love about that. but too, like it's fun, right? It's kinda like playing hockey with a bunch of people who are really good at playing hockey. It's so fun. Yeah, every everybody there's the, you know, like be professional, do your job and have fun. And like exactly like I just went to the Like I just went to the Frozen Four and I was the video replay official and I was one of the video replay officials and you know, yeah, I was working, but it didn't feel like we're one minute, right? Like those games are awesome. ⁓ I was in it, like I officiated those games, so it's just like you're just locked in no different than you were, you know, when you play, but you're you were having fun, like, you know, we we were we were having some fun with each other too and and we were all business, right? And, you know it it was It's that it was like for me, it was that first like look into it at like off the ice 'cause like my whole career I was on the ice and then finally I'm like ⁓ I'm I'm I I'm I'm at a frozen full working at a different capacity. And I thought that was pretty pretty special. And you know, just to be a part of that event is just something you know, it it's awesome. You know. ⁓ that's so cool. Well also like it must be really interesting. You remember like in hockey practice when you when they made the defense play? you know, be be a forward and the forwards be defense and then you had like a different appreciation for the other position. Did it feel like that when you were doing video replay? Yeah. So like it it was it was interesting 'cause like all the guys that refereed ⁓ I worked with. So like it was like, hey, how's it going? Like I worked a couple I worked that same game with a couple of ⁓ you know, like and it was just ⁓ yeah, it was it was like a look back, yeah. It was it was I don't know. It was ⁓ very special, ⁓ say the least. Yeah, that's awesome. Mark, what what's been your favorite ⁓ you know, top of the mountain type experience? The which what kind of experience? Like like the the ultimate season experience for you. ⁓ In hockey or in general? ⁓ well I don't know. ⁓ is it the same? 'Cause I I hit a fifty foot putt one time at a golf tournament for five thousand dollars. And that was pretty exciting, I'll tell you that. Yeah. Some huge guy grabbed me and was bouncing me up and down. Everyone was watching. It was pretty exciting, I'll I'll say that. It was it was a cool ⁓ moment in my sports life. Yeah. I got a big check and everything. It was it was pretty sick. ⁓ that's pretty cool. So we where do we get to see you on the road next? Where do we get to see the tripping zebrads next? You guys have been at the road a lot. Yeah, we like the tape on on site. ⁓ we do we're gonna be doing a lot with granite links and ⁓ and that ⁓ in Marina Bay Management thanks to our buddy Kevin Mason. so and and we've done stuff at Harmon Golf and you know, we're planning on going down the Cape this summer. We got we got some places planned. And then, you know, there'll be pl times when Gino's in his basement and I'm here in my apartment. And that's fine too. I might be at a lake. You might be at a lake. Yeah, you tanked one time at a lake. You're up at a lake house. ⁓ Yeah. Yep. So Lake. Like New H in New Horse? Yeah, I go up to ⁓ Lake Winnesquam. ⁓ this would be our third year of going now. ⁓ my college roommate has a house up there. And his neighbor Yeah, his neighbor reached out to him and said, Hey, any of your buddies wanna r want to rent this and gave us like, you know, a couple options and I I jumped at one of the weeks. ⁓ that's so cool. Don't mind me. Just plugging my phone in. All kinds of issues today. I can't get this right. Okay. ⁓ my god. Where we also go to a dude ranch every year too. That's coming up. Where are you going? To a dude ranch. Riding High Ranch. Like ⁓ is that like in Wyoming and stuff? My friend doesn't. Well no, so like everybody also like I know people from the Midwest, so they kinda make fun of me 'cause like there's no ranch like this side of the Mississippi, but there is one in in the Adirondacks, New York, called Ride and High Ranch. And ⁓ a bunch of ⁓ like four or five of my buddies from Southie we you know I grew up with, we go up there every year. since my kids were little really. And we have all ⁓ all our kids are the same age and we've been going for you know, probably about ten to eleven years now. That's so fun. Bun bunch of salty people with a bunch of horses. What could go wrong? The the only the only downside is my parents started going. Gino. I love my parents. If no when you work with family it's just like ⁓ my god, ⁓ you're gonna come on vacation with me? I know you guys seem really tight. You're all on the ice together. Yep. Well his dad rides a pony, not a horse. ⁓ We joke a little about it. Love it. Love it. Okay. So rough ring, super, super stressful, like mentally draining job, right? Yep. So what is what's your favorite thing to do that's completely unrelated to work. ⁓ so many things. So many things. Come on. Well now that refereeing like isn't full time for me. I only do it the like I do a lot of the Bruins alumni games now. Which is kind of ⁓ yeah, that's right. So this is like your podcasting is more of your podcasting and and stand up comedy really is is kinda my job now. So it's like, you know, there's no heavy lifting with either of ⁓ They're both super fun. ⁓ You know, but I I have our official mascot. ⁓ Miss Refereeing? Do you miss the stress? Like the ⁓ the stress the Yeah. No, I mean I I I've never stress hasn't really been ⁓ I never got nervous with it. It was just kind of what I did. It's kinda like comedy. There's no stress. Just go up and make people laugh, you know? ⁓ I try to not live with stress. I get anxious. I get anxious more than like stress. Like it's like ⁓ come on, let's get it going. Yeah. Like I just kinda wanna want it to happen. So like I don't know, I was always wanting to show up right at the like if I had to be there at five thirty, I was there at f five thirty one. Right. Like just show ⁓ I just wanna show up, put my stuff on and go. But ⁓ you know, you learn to you know, build a routine and things like that. But yeah. ⁓ the stress part of it, ⁓ decompressing, like, you know, I I just like to Like just like the summertime, you look forward to the downtime, right? Like me and me and Ryan Sweeney, we would always ⁓ go to Vegas or do something or you know, a golf trip or you know, you do something with your wife or whatever. Like you look forward to a trip with your family and like it's at the end of the season. It's like it's like that end end game. Like I look always looked at it as like a grind and you know, like you you you take a break during during the season, like you know, you go on like a little trip or something. Or whatever, right? And take a break and then you're back to business. And then once the season's over, then you kinda like I always look forward to that wind down time which we're in right now. ⁓ you know, and I kinda got that same process with how my job is with you know, I'm still part of, you know, the hockey games, like I'm I I feel like I'm still part of it, right? Like when the games are going on, like I feel like I'm responsible for the guys on the ice. Like I gotta kinda answer for them, right? So I stress out a little bit about that and you know, my tie might come off here and there, but no. Do you well in tying into that for you, when you do like when you're broadcasting or you're recording or especially if it's a live shot, like do you get that nervousness? Do you like have you gotten used to that? Yeah like how does that no, you know, I always y you're right. Like it's like what Gina says, it's it's like an anxiousness. It's not really a nervousness anymore. ⁓ I think I used to get nervous in the beginning, but now it's just like Let's get this done, let's get it going, let's talk about it. but it you know, the late Peter Jennings had this like, you know, quote about working in the business and he was like, if you don't feel that nervousness or like that that twinge of anxiety before you go on the air anymore, then it's time to to leave the business. So like a as long as that's still there, y y you you can still, you know, find the passion for being in the business kind of thing. 'Cause it can be It can be at times it can be really mentally exhausting. Well, you mentioned that, right? People ask me, they're like, Why did you get off the ice at forty? Like you're you're kinda young. I was like, I I am young. I go, but I also started refereeing at a very young age, right? Like knees way. Like I just had like I had knee surgery like at thirty thirty eight or something or thirty seven, thirty-eight. And you know, I was just like, you know, it was it was mentally ready to make a a switch in the profession and I had the opportunity to do so and I jumped at it. So like yeah, like you have to like I'm ready to kinda almost get back onto the ice, but like mentally I'm not yet. ⁓ even at the little like y younger kids, ⁓ to go out and do those. Like I I feel as though like once a coach starts yelling, like it's just instant and I'll end up on YouTube and at that the end of that. So I know myself, so I'm not gonna do that. So I will wait for the opportunity when my mind and mentally are mentally ready. So Yeah. There's a lot to that. That's crazy that at forty, wait, let's think about this. At forty, Joe had a thirty basically a thirty year career already referring. Because you say you started at eleven, right? Yep. That's wild. And like I ref every weekend, like I never went skiing. I went skiing maybe once, like it was just all summer long. That's all I ever did for income. Like all those years on the thin blades, like It it it wears on your hips and your that's why you get to be in in good shape and you know, just 'cause your body breaks down after a while. Yeah. And like it's funny, like I I looked at my father, like he kinda did the same thing and like ⁓ I'm going into my fourth year in this position and you know, I'm like he he lasted you know twenty for well like, you know, in this in this role. And that's that doesn't happen too often, like in any in any industry you're doing, right? ⁓ so I'm gonna be lucky I get ten. 'Cause like people you within, right? Like I already started feeling the pressure in the meetings this year, like, you know, hey, officials aren't great, and blah blah blah, all this kind of crap, right? And you're like, come on, what what are we doing, right? Like it's ⁓ it is what it is with the with the pool. But ⁓ you know, like you just you know, you just try to do what's best for the game. That's all. And if you love it, ⁓ it's not work. If it I I like after talking to you guys, I have a deeper appreciation for the art of refereeing, right? And what it takes to be in it and to have to make the decisions that you guys make and then to have to have the know how and constantly trained to have the know how to be able to make the right decisions when you are on the ice. So keep it up, boys. Please. We need good references for Yeah, we do. There's a parallel, I think, to Gino and and my path through pro you know, hockey in your path through broadcasting. You know, 'cause you started and then had a kind of you didn't start in the Olympics, right? You you kinda have to work your way up. What was that like for you? Absolutely. I mean, I was still, you know, the the we you know, we call ourselves the generation that went the traditional route, which is you start in a smaller market and you kind of like work your way up to ⁓ you know, to bigger market, to regional, to national. And and so I kind of pretty much followed the steps. Now I feel like there's more because the landscape has completely changed, right? Like so if you're a young digital person, you could, you know, start out in the Boston market. Whereas like if you were in television, you know, even ten, fifteen years ago, like you couldn't really just start out in the Boston market. You would have had to go to a much smaller market to get your feet, you know, get experience under your belt. So, you know, that's definitely changed. So I kind of yeah, I totally I totally understand what you guys what you guys went through. ⁓ because you you y you do the you do the steps that you need to do to be able to to have the opportunity to work some of the best stuff in the world. Mm-hmm. That's great. Like that's a great thing when you just highlighted opportunity because a lot of these people think it's it's ⁓ they do like it's owed to them. Like you have the opportunity to do this. Like, ⁓ I did this, this and this and I'm like, Well that's great. But like what else did you do? Did you do anything extra or you know, whatever, right? And you just do the bare minimum. And just to have that opportunity and that it's a privilege to get those assignments, right? And no, there's a reason why you went to the Olympics four times, right? Yeah, it's such a privilege. ⁓ my gosh, it's such a privilege. Also, like I got really lucky because I worked with the Bruins during the years when they won the Stanley Cup. And they went to the final twice. I'm like, I'm sorry, it was just timing. Timing's great, timing's everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So You might have to go back to give him some luck to get ⁓ back there. You know? I mean it was you know what was the best part of it though? But the best part of those years was seeing the sleeping giant that was the Boston hockey fan base and you really you always knew that Boston's a hockey town, but you really saw it come back alive in those years and that was super cool. That was an awesome time. Yeah. That was unbelievable. Now you though when when you I went to school for television sports casting, actually. ⁓ you did? I didn't know that. Yeah, never never could get a job and no one wanted to hire a white Irish Catholic from Boston who looked fourteen when he graduated. I that's one reason why I found refereeing. Now it's kinda come full circle doing this. ⁓ but ⁓ No most doesn't make sense. You're like, ⁓ I didn't get T V so I went into refereeing. What? Yeah, y it's ⁓ well in school I I wanted to either be a television sportscaster or ⁓ I wanted to train killer whales. And I no, I never wanted to be a dentist. That's my brother. But but like I chose that route and probably a good idea because those whales can be angry, but at what point did you kind of decide this is what I wanna do? well I always loved hockey, so I always wanted well, I always loved sports, I should say. So I wanted to work in sports in some capacity. It was just like one thing led to another. you know, I was a communications ⁓ student at B U and then it like just kind of like I don't know, somebody suggested, the broadcaster and was a major was really fun. So I switched and you know, so it was like stuff like that that sort of led the led the way and led the path. but I always wanted to work in sports. So this was just kind of like a you know, it looking back on it, I'm like, ⁓ I probably would have been you know, interested in other aspects of sports, like the sports business side or sports psychology side would have been really interesting for me. ⁓ but it just so happened that I went this route. Yeah. Did you play did you play sports growing up? I did, yeah. Yeah. So I played I played hockey. I played so ⁓ soccer, volleyball, what else did I play? I feel like I played everything. I skied. ⁓ I played a lot of different sports softball. I think I tried softball one year, track, you know. This is like all these like I I'm always I'm one of these people like I just want to try everything. I just want to try everything. Everything looks so fun. I wanna try it. Yeah. I wasn't I don't do it. I I wasn't the hockey ⁓ play hockey year round twenty four seven kid. You know. Were you wait, were you both like that? Like all hockey all the time? Okay. No, ⁓ no. You took breaks. Yeah, I played baseball. Yeah. I play I well and back I mean, I'm way older than both of you. So back in the day there wasn't a lot of there wasn't like I'd go to hockey camp for a couple weeks in the summer, which is what everyone did. And in college. And in college there was a ⁓ like a ⁓ you know a summer league that that played once a week with no practices. You know, there was no hockey year round really back then. And so Your off season play baseball, you work out. You know, in high school I ran cross country to get in shape for hockey. You know, it was kinda it was a little different back then, you know. I mean, like Wayne Bretsky's dad used to throw his it ⁓ I mean, like you have more opportunity if you pay for it, but right. I mean you Yeah. Like my daughter was someone that wanted to play everything. And you know So in high school she played field hockey, she played hockey, she played softball, she played lacrosse growing up. Like she she just tried she was like you. She wanted she wanted to try everything. And she no matter what she played, she loved it. And she was usually one of the better players on the team, no matter what sport. And so, you know, we didn't do the travel softball 'cause she didn't want every weekend in the summer to be taken up by softball. You know. So I and I was I was okay with that. You know, like ⁓ So it's th but I think it was different in that obviously the training and everything is advanced and what you have ⁓ accessible is is there's more. i and you know, I I I don't know, I like I said before, I just I'm a proponent and you know, kids trying everything and and kinda figuring it out when they get older. but, you know. I I don't yeah, I'm just a podcast comedian. Where can we see you perform your comedy though? Well, I'm all over. ⁓ there's a bowling alley down the street here in Amington that's pretty good. I ⁓ I've played I've played everywhere and anywhere. I've done bowling alleys, I've done ⁓ nursing homes, I've done backyards, you know. wait, Mark, did you see the new have you seen that new Netflix show, for with Kevin Hart? It's actually a stand up comedy ⁓ competition. Did you see that? You should check it out. It's kind of fun. I've watched well I I I probably should have. I watched one episode and I got pretty annoyed with how unfunny the people were. And you know, I I just didn't find them you know a couple of them are good. A couple of them had like a couple good bits, but like, you know, they're talking about, ⁓ I've been doing this seven years and I'm really struggling. And it's like, dude, seven years is nothing. You don't even know what you're doing yet. You know? ⁓ I found Kevin Hart to be Kevin Hart was laughing way too hard at the people when they weren't funny. They just weren't like it was like, all right, this is so I guess I don't wanna sound like that guy, but I just didn't there's a lot of there's a l put it this way, there's a lot of comedy on TV that's not necessarily funny and it doesn't mean that those comedians are funny. You know? Make me laugh, clown. Yeah. Well I I I joke and say I'm ⁓ like on my Instagram and stuff, I'm the funniest comedian no one's ever heard of. So you know, what are you what are you gonna do? But I play the clubs too, like around Boston, Giggles, Calhoun, Nick's comedy stop, you know. ⁓ really anywhere every Elch Hall and V F W Hall that's in Massachusetts and New England, I think I've probably seen the inside of and ⁓ you know, but when you love what you do, it's it's not work, right? Yeah. That I mean it's gotta be a cool feeling to make people laugh. Best feeling in the world. Yeah. For me, best feeling in the world to get everyone laughing and share that part like experience that positive energy in one place with so many people. That's that's powerful. That's powerful. And that's the cool part about it for sure. Okay, Gino. Yeah, we're good. You don't have to change places, do you? No, I might have to wrap this up. No Yeah. Okay. No All we'll wrap it. We'll wrap it This has been great. ⁓ I I think you interviewed us more than we interviewed you. This was the most intriguing podcast we've had, yeah. Right? Like this was great. We can we can we can tee it up where we we got the inter ⁓ we were interviewed during this this ⁓ episode. So enjoy. I'm a pro. See, I'm a pro broadcaster, aren't I? I'm a pro broader. I got your taken out of you. Yeah. You had to you you did your thing. It was like a Jedi mind trick. You were just you were throwing questions. We were like, Wow, this is We're not is this her podcast or us? It was awesome. Right. No one's ever no one guest has ever been this interested in us in our life. Trust me. It's kinda cool. Well, I again, like like I said before, now I'm really much more appreciative of the work that you guys have to do on the ice. So spread the good word. Thanks sharing. Yeah. Thanks for sharing. And thanks for having us. Yeah. Be nice to the zebras. Yes. And and I I you won't hear it in the in well, it I've practiced a lot 'cause the last time I saw I could not get your last name right. Why? If you saw the real, if you saw our reel, you saw how stupid I was and not being able to pronounce your last name, but Funayama. Funayama. You did it, you did it. Nailed it. Nailed it all weekend long. No one you were coming on. I am not getting this wrong this time. So I figured it out. So Nako, thank you for coming on with us. Thank guys so much. It was so fun to chat with you guys. What a great guest. ⁓ we learned a couple of things. One, when you're at the library, you gotta be a little flexible. And ⁓ you gotta re you gotta reserve a room. Yep, you gotta reserve a room and I can finally pronounce her last name properly. 'Cause if you if you're seeing the real out there, I I couldn't get it right. But ⁓ Narko Funayama, what a guest. Just great stuff. ⁓ and ⁓ she was awesome. A lot of great insight too. Yeah. A lot of great questions. I mean, awesome questions. Like she she asked a lot of lot of great questions that like I'm sure a lot of hockey people out there, especially like people that that you know, they never played the sport, but the kids playing that, you know, just the perspective on refereeing. A hundred percent. And we're ⁓ you know, she also has a podcast that I think we'll we'll go on there and just ask her questions. It'll be perfect. Right. It'll be awesome. ⁓ It'll be perfect. And we'll take the second one. And then we can take the second half. ⁓ I meant to tell you ⁓ that remember when we did the code word at the end of the episode. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ our code word was ⁓ cold cold brew. ⁓ we actually ⁓ we actually had had Tim Danahy emailed in, told us the code word, listened to the end. And so ⁓ so we only had one person do it? We only had one person do it? We had yeah, we yeah. But that's my old point. But you know what? Hold on. You know what? There was at least one person listened to the end. That's all we need. Right? That's it. Just the one. Hey Tim, Tim, you might you might get another shirt. What's the next code word? Well, we ⁓ I'm gonna send him out a hat. I told him I'd ⁓ work some games with him. ⁓ that's awesome. He w he's he's a referee of yours and ⁓ so scheduled some games this summer. He's coming up for some of the tournaments. So ⁓ but yeah, want to thank ⁓ give a shout out to Tim for for listening the whole to the end, which is kind of cool. and we want to give a shout out to our sponsor, the referees, Chris, you one stop shop for all your referee needs. Want to remind you to like and subscribe on YouTube and follow us on the social medias, the Instagram, the Facebook, and of course the TikTok. And you can check us out online at chirpingzeebras dot com. And also, ⁓ we know we're aware of the Spotify issue and we're still working on that, but we'll have all the episodes out ⁓ out there soon. So, without further ado, ⁓ for Geno Bender, I'm Mark Riley saying so long. We'll see you next time right here on the Chirping Zebras.