Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 100: Making Sense of His Behavior

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100: Making Sense of His Behavior · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

0:00
Hey everybody. So this episode is made
0:02
particularly for the betrayed partner.
0:04
I know we this podcast is focused a lot around the
0:06
betraying partner, but we're going to focus on the betrayed
0:09
partner today and provide a resource if it makes sense for
0:12
you. So have you ever thought to
0:14
yourself this behavior stopped? He says it stopped.
0:19
So why does everything still feel so broken?
0:22
So this episode's for you. Because one of the biggest
0:25
misconceptions in betrayal recovery is the belief that
0:28
sobriety and recovery are the same thing, and they're not.
0:31
So a man can stop acting out and still be dishonest.
0:36
So he can still be defensive, he can still avoid emotions, he can
0:41
still blame others, and he can still hide.
0:44
So there is going to be an 8 topic course that's coming out
0:47
by Choose Recovery Services that Scott and I are going to run.
0:50
And we're going to talk more about those concepts today and
0:52
looking forward to it. Welcome to Beyond the Facade
0:58
podcast. I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and
1:00
I'm thrilled to have you join me in the space today.
1:03
What we're going to be doing is diving deep into the trials and
1:05
triumphs and truths of seeking authenticity.
1:08
Becoming your true self isn't about a single action or a
1:11
moment. It's a relentless pursuit, a
1:14
commitment to self that reveals the rich connection and meaning
1:17
that our life has to offer. So whether this is your first
1:19
time tuning in or you're a regular listener, know this.
1:23
What you're building here goes beyond a conversation.
1:26
You're here to challenge, to change, and to celebrate the
1:28
incredible journey of becoming your authentic self.
1:31
Because when you dare to show up fully, the rewards are
1:34
immeasurable. So, welcome to be on the Facade.
1:37
Let's get started. All right, everybody.
1:40
So before we dive back into the content, I want to just
1:43
introduce Scott. Many of you might already know
1:46
him because if you've been around the Choose Recovery
1:48
Services group or if you've been around maybe a webinar or just
1:53
done some sessions, Scott came on our team.
1:55
I think it was the beginning of the year, right, Scott?
1:57
Maybe end of? Last year, yeah, I think
1:59
December. Yeah, December of last year and
2:02
we are so lucky to have him here.
2:03
Scott is, he's got some pretty wonderful credentials.
2:08
He's a trauma informed certified coach, he's an ICF certified
2:12
coach, He's trained in multiple dimensional partner trauma model
2:17
and he's also an apps apps candidate.
2:19
And he's also able to guide keep people through full disclosures.
2:22
So he has his own story, his own journey that he's gone through
2:25
and he's worked and now he's leading other men through this
2:28
experience. So he is going to be teaming up
2:31
with me in leading this new course for Betrayed Partners
2:37
that has 8 topics that we cover. It's called making sense of his
2:41
behavior. So Scott, I'll get more into it
2:44
here a second, but what do people want to know about you?
2:46
Or tell us what people might want to know about you.
2:48
Oh, sure. Well, you know, my story is I'm
2:51
a fellow traveler, took a really long time and I hear this title,
2:56
I hear making sense of his behavior.
2:59
And I think there's two phases of this.
3:01
And I think the first phase is the making sense of the
3:06
problematic sexual behaviors, whatever it is in the
3:10
relationship, whether it was affairs or pornography or
3:14
whatever it might have been. And then there's the other part
3:18
of the behavior. So we have to make sense of
3:20
that. And then we also have to make
3:23
sense of this second phase where all the sudden he's appearing as
3:28
somebody that's defensive, avoidant, maybe anger, maybe
3:34
rage that never really existed before.
3:38
And so I had both of those phases and my wife needed to
3:43
understand, she needed to make sense of both those behaviors
3:48
cause prior to discovery as she knew me as gentle, kind, never
3:55
angry, never anxious. And then post disclosure, that
4:00
all changed. And so I think we have to help
4:03
partners understand not only where the problematic sexual
4:08
behaviors come from, but these other behaviors that are so
4:13
harmful early in this recovery process.
4:17
So harmful, so harmful. OK, so everybody we created this
4:23
content in mind or the person that betrayed their partner for
4:28
the person that compulsive behavior for person that was
4:30
hiding addictive type tendencies.
4:33
What we noticed that there's a lot of our listeners are the
4:36
betrayed partner and what Scott and I have been passionate about
4:41
it is opening up our brains into our experience of letting her
4:44
know what is going on over there, what he is experiencing,
4:48
what real change actually looks like.
4:51
So this course happens, it's going to be going, it's going to
4:54
be ongoing, but there are 8 topics that we cover and more
4:57
information will come in the show notes and you can find more
5:00
information on the Truth Recovery Services website.
5:02
But these 8 topics we get covered and we'll repeat them,
5:06
but it gets a chance for you to come in and ask questions,
5:08
engage with the content. But the first one we're going to
5:11
do is we're going to give you a glimpse into topic #1 which is
5:14
what does what real recovery actually looks like.
5:17
So one of the most confusing parts of the trail recovery is
5:21
trying to determine whether meaningful changes actually
5:24
happening. So we're going to cover that
5:27
topic today and then give you a little bit of a glimpse and into
5:31
what these topics would be to cover.
5:33
The one that we're going to talk about today is what is real
5:35
recovery actually look like? And then another one we're going
5:38
to cover is going to be understanding what you're
5:40
actually dealing with. So this is where you gain a
5:43
clear understanding of what compulsive behavior behaviors
5:46
and what the patterns are that drive them.
5:48
And then the third topic is going to be inside the
5:50
compulsive mind, so exploring how compartmentalization,
5:54
denial, and the sort of thinking actually contribute to
5:57
compulsive behaviors. And then the fourth topic we'll
6:00
coverage, which is core wounds, shame and defensiveness.
6:03
So we'll learn how unresolved emotional wounds and shame can
6:07
fill, can fuel defensiveness, minimization, avoidance, and
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then topic #5 will be how behavior gets wired and
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escalates. So discovering how compulsive
6:18
behavior behaviors develop become a reinforced and often
6:22
escalate over time. Topic number six will be
6:25
emotional avoidance and emotional immaturity.
6:28
So learning how difficulties with emotional awareness and
6:31
regulation contribute to a racial, relational challenges
6:35
and compulsive behaviors. And topic 7 will be making sense
6:39
of your experience and reactions.
6:41
So understanding the emotional impact of the trail and why many
6:46
common reactions are normal responses to a significant
6:50
breach of trust. And then the last topic we'll
6:52
cover, which is moving forward with clarity and boundaries.
6:56
So exploring how to move forward with that confidence and
7:00
understanding what boundaries look like and how your partner's
7:02
going to respond to them. So just give you a little bit of
7:05
a glimpse on what those topics are that we'll be covering.
7:07
But again, we'll dive into what real recovery actually looks
7:09
like. All right, so everybody, let's
7:13
focus on what real recovery looks like.
7:15
And there's the first key concept, which is sobriety and
7:18
recovery are not the same thing. You want to grab that one,
7:20
Scott? Sure.
7:21
Yeah. So sobriety and recovery are
7:25
absolutely not the same thing. Sobriety, boy, I think sometimes
7:30
people think of it just as as abstinence.
7:33
And what we recognize is that when these problematic sexual
7:39
behaviors stop and we start being abstinent from those
7:44
behaviors, we recognize that these really big emotions are
7:49
still present. And so recovery refers to
7:54
actually the personal transformation that's going on,
7:58
whereas sobriety is just the absence of these behaviors.
8:04
What is so difficult is that someone may stop acting out
8:10
while they're still, while they're still struggling with
8:14
feelings of not being good enough, they're still struggling
8:18
with dishonesty, defensiveness, emotional avoidance.
8:24
And this is what is absolutely so confusing to partners.
8:30
It's so confusing. I can't imagine looking back how
8:33
confusing it had to because if we look at what has happened, my
8:41
partner has hurt me by avoiding gaslighting, acting out, going
8:51
to strip clubs, maybe having an affair, and now he's angry with
8:55
me. It doesn't make any sense.
8:59
So we really want to have a good understanding of what is actual
9:05
recovery, what does it actually feel like and what's the
9:09
difference between that and just being sober.
9:13
And real Recovery means being able to manage emotions,
9:19
acknowledge emotions, validate the emotions we have.
9:23
And so many of the people that we work with, the individuals
9:27
seeking recovery have never managed their feelings before.
9:33
They didn't think it was OK to have feelings.
9:38
So real recovery is about being able to actually understand
9:44
where our emotions are coming from and then learning how to
9:47
navigate them without behaviors that are going to be destructive
9:51
to our relationship. Hey, Scott.
9:54
So if let me ask you a question a participant in this course
9:58
might ask, which is So if he stops the behavior, shouldn't
10:00
things get better? Shouldn't things be getting
10:02
better? Yeah.
10:03
That, that is the giant misnomer, right?
10:06
Things should change, but not necessarily better yet, right?
10:11
So the behaviors, what we know today is that the problematic
10:15
sexual behaviors are what is soothing some very difficult
10:22
emotions. So when the problematic sexual
10:26
behaviors now go away, what the individual has been using to
10:33
soothe those emotions is going away.
10:38
My experience, my wife always knew me as kind, gentle, caring,
10:43
all the words. When I stopped my problematic
10:48
sexual behaviors, all the sudden my emotions just exploded like I
10:54
never knew before. I had never experienced some of
10:57
these emotions and I didn't know how to deal with them.
11:01
So yes, Luke, there were changes, but not for the better
11:06
yet, because I had no idea how to handle the things that were
11:10
going on inside me. And so it took a really long
11:14
time to start to acknowledge them, validate them, understand
11:18
them, and then finally manage feelings that I had never felt
11:23
before. Yeah, well said.
11:27
And that's can be pretty frustrating.
11:29
You can feel like a step back for both people if I get sober
11:34
and then I'm a mean sober. Absolutely.
11:39
Just like. Yep, it's confusing for both
11:44
sides. And I think we just have to look
11:46
at as progress is different and different is OK and we just have
11:52
to recognize that this this can occur, does occur.
11:57
Just because we get sober doesn't mean life just moves
12:01
forward. It means that it's the start to
12:04
our healing process, right? The brain is just starting to
12:08
get rewired as we're getting sober and.
12:12
It is. It's a painful sign of progress
12:16
when I'll genderize here because I'm typically working with men.
12:21
When he starts to feel his feelings, when he starts to
12:25
notice them and and is going like, well, I don't like this.
12:28
I remember sitting a long, long time ago in a support group.
12:31
This is not uncommon. So you wouldn't even be able to
12:33
have any idea how I'm talking about, even if you know the same
12:35
people. Remember guys sitting in there
12:37
going like, I don't want to feel what I feel.
12:40
I don't want to feel these feelings.
12:41
I don't want them. And there's some progress in
12:43
there. So we're going to be talking to
12:46
the betrayed partner on what do I do with that?
12:48
Do I do I want to celebrate that?
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It's like it's not enjoyable. What should I put up with, you
12:53
know, because he now he's not acting.
12:55
So just what do I do with that? So it's amazing some of the
12:58
stuff that we're going through. Yeah, and that there's a yes and
13:02
there right, Luke? Because what partners realize is
13:07
that the pain that's been created in their life, what
13:13
they're going to realize is that pain is because of her partner's
13:20
inability to manage his feelings, right?
13:22
So he's been keeping himself distant from those feelings.
13:27
He's been allowing himself to be distracted from these feelings
13:32
through these problematic sexual behaviors.
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That's been his distraction. And now that distractions gone,
13:38
so he's in with these feelings. So he does need to be able to
13:43
share him because we know the problem came from his not
13:47
sharing. So partners really do need help
13:53
to understand that they shouldn't be blamed for how he's
13:58
feeling. They shouldn't have to fix how
14:00
he's feeling and they shouldn't certainly shouldn't be on the
14:04
other end of behaviors that stem from his feelings.
14:10
And what I mean by that is just because he feels angry or
14:14
criticized doesn't give him permission to slam a door or be
14:19
rageful, right? So it is this fine line of it is
14:24
really important that he shares feelings and it's also so
14:28
important that he take ownership of his feelings.
14:33
Yeah, yeah, I get so excited watching a man, a man who
14:38
wasn't, it wasn't allowed for him to be angry when he was in
14:41
his family of origin and he didn't think it was.
14:45
He didn't know how to feel anger in his romantic relationship and
14:50
how to express it appropriately. And watching him start to battle
14:55
and notice and notice what's coming up his body when anger
14:58
shows up, instead of pushing it down and suppressing it and
15:02
acting like it doesn't matter and learning how to feel it
15:05
appropriately and what expression actually looks like
15:08
around anger. Because there's, there's just
15:10
the, there's the phase of grief that really matters.
15:13
So every emotion has a useful meaning and a youthful purpose.
15:18
And just I, my experience was I wanted to pull that into my
15:23
partner's world. I wanted her to have a front row
15:26
seat to that. And I want to put a lot of
15:27
things on her. And I really was really
15:29
destructive in the beginning of my journey.
15:30
Still have destructive days today in where I have to
15:34
remember what help the expression looks like.
15:37
Anyways. OK, so let's talk about this key
15:38
concept #2 what? Can I add one other thing to
15:41
what you were sharing? There's that one side.
15:45
There's the anger part that a lot of men struggle with the
15:50
conflict or a dad that was always angry.
15:54
There's this other side, which is the, which a lot of guys see
16:00
as a weakness, which is the I feel like I'm not good enough.
16:05
I feel like I'm unwanted. And they don't want to address
16:09
these feelings because it feels like such a weakness.
16:13
And we have to see this being able to manage these feelings as
16:18
a strength and not turn away from them.
16:22
And I can think about, because so much of this work is just
16:25
generational patterns, becoming aware of stuff that's handed
16:28
down from us, and anything about anger being such an appropriate
16:32
emotion in the right context when it comes to understanding
16:36
patterns that have existed generationally for a long time.
16:39
And protective anger going up and saying this isn't OK like
16:43
this, but man, if that's directed at the wrong person at
16:46
the wrong time and for the wrong reason, so destructive and just
16:50
continues in some of the unhealthy patterns.
16:52
OK, cool. Absolutely.
16:54
So here's King's concept #2 everybody, what should you look
16:57
for? So Scott and I will sit with the
16:59
trade partners and one of the I love the Alana and her team of
17:05
the trail experts have come up with the four things that will
17:09
go further into the weeds on which is what are the four
17:12
things that I can look for of a person that's been in hiding,
17:17
been in secrecy when it comes to change.
17:19
And these 4 markers which are transparency, vulnerability,
17:23
humility and empathy. And we can spend a decent amount
17:27
of time of what are these things?
17:29
I'll give you something that can feel raw and feels like it's
17:34
attractive immediately, which is I wish I had a partner that was
17:37
vulnerable. I wish I as a betrayed partner
17:40
had a partner was vulnerable. And then you actually sitting
17:44
there and you sit with a vulnerable person that's
17:46
betrayed you, it actually can feel a little bit disconcerning
17:50
because sometimes that vulnerability can almost feel
17:54
like you are around somebody that lacks some a little bit of
17:57
confidence. So we just want to, we want to
18:00
go deeper in the leads on these pieces of what is transparency,
18:04
what is vulnerability, what is humility, what is empathy?
18:07
And also sometimes when they can be weaponized and used against
18:10
you because you can have a guy that would show up and go, I'm
18:13
being transparent, but he's completely weaponizing that,
18:15
asking you to just accept his transparency with no emotion,
18:19
right? What's sticking out to you on
18:21
this key concept of what to look for?
18:22
I know we're not going to go in the weeds of all.
18:24
Of the yeah, I think they're great.
18:26
I love those. I would add too, also that are
18:29
really tangible, right? I always think of these
18:33
problematic sexual behaviors as being the distraction.
18:39
It's easy to see when somebody needs distraction, right?
18:44
Are they continually moving fast?
18:47
Always doing, always having to do something, always having to
18:51
be on their phone or put their phone down or pick their phone
18:55
up, Always having to be distracted with TV.
18:59
So this moving slowly piece is easily observable.
19:06
And as addicts, we move fast. We always move fast rather than
19:11
slow. We're reactive rather than
19:14
responsive. You know, the one that jumps out
19:17
to me, Luke, is it's got to be empathy.
19:20
It's the word that comes up all the time.
19:23
And it's so hard to grab on to it, right?
19:27
Because men who were sitting in shame, they have their
19:33
protective pieces are really activated.
19:38
And when we are sitting in protection of ourselves, we're
19:45
not really open to connection, right?
19:48
And so we as the betrayer when we're feeling unsafe and it
19:56
sounds crazy to talk about his safety, but oftentimes he's not
20:02
feeling safe. And so when he's not feeling
20:06
safe, he's protective, which is where defensiveness comes from.
20:11
It's where avoidance comes from. And so we've got to allow him to
20:18
find his safety so that he can truly come across and be
20:22
empathetic with you because when we're feeling safe, we can be in
20:26
connection. And can you, Scott, touch on
20:29
because can you touch on performative empathy versus real
20:33
empathy at all because you're you nailed.
20:35
Them, you know. If you have real empathy, that
20:39
means you've really done a decent amount of your work
20:41
because it means that other person could voice whatever
20:43
they're going to voice outside of a physical on the side of
20:46
being physical with you, and you're going to be able to stay
20:49
there and stay present. Absolutely.
20:51
And at the beginning, I think we have to accept performative
20:56
empathy for what it is, right? This is really difficult.
21:01
And so we want men to try to understand the experience of the
21:08
betrayed partner. And quite honestly, I think we
21:11
know at the beginning it's going to be really hard.
21:15
He's going to be really protective.
21:17
He's going to be protecting himself.
21:22
And performative means that he's going to be saying the words,
21:26
and to the betrayed partner, it's going to sound like words.
21:30
It might sound a little hollow. It's not going to feel like he's
21:34
truly with you, and it's not a very tangible thing.
21:39
But when you know it, you know it.
21:41
When? He has, when he has been able to
21:46
do his work, like you say, Luke, and drop some of his
21:50
protections, reduce some of that shame.
21:54
He's going to be able to feel different.
21:57
The empathy is going to feel different.
22:01
And so when I look at these, I don't know if you feel the same
22:05
way. I feel like transparency may be
22:08
the first one we see. I don't know if I've ever
22:11
thought to put these in order. And then I could see some
22:14
humility coming in. Vulnerability is really hard,
22:19
right, 'cause so many of these guys are so afraid to let the
22:24
rest of the world to trust that the rest of the world is still
22:28
going to like them if they're vulnerable, right?
22:31
Yeah. And then once we can be
22:33
vulnerable, then we can show true empathy.
22:37
That's more than just performative.
22:40
I think it's like a four legged stool.
22:43
I think these pieces do you just take one away, Everything falls
22:46
over, even if the other three are solid, they have the
22:49
vulnerability piece. I don't think vulnerability
22:51
feels good for just bear with me on this one.
22:54
I reserve, I'm going to reserve that right to be like just kind
22:59
of muddle my way through this, even though I've talked about it
23:01
a million times. When I'm vulnerable with my
23:04
partner, I expose myself to to hurt, right?
23:09
That exposure sometimes feels good for a partner and sometimes
23:13
it doesn't. Because if I'm vulnerable and
23:15
I'm open about my internal experience, sometimes that
23:18
vulnerability is like it's very comforting, but sometimes that
23:22
vulnerability is scary. So there are just some words
23:25
here that a surface level, maybe we've heard them a million
23:27
times. We're just going to take a
23:28
bigger deep dive in. And I think every one of them
23:31
matters significantly. That's just how do they show up
23:35
in your world and how do you measure them?
23:36
Because I'll give you a little bit of a simple recovery filter
23:40
when you, when you're evaluating your partner's recovery, just
23:43
notice the word increasing is transparency increasing is
23:47
vulnerability increasing? Is humility increasing?
23:50
Because it's Dang it. It's just, it's such a process,
23:53
right? It's such a process.
23:55
And in those moments and those triggers, it just feels like
23:59
it's there is no progress or we're back at square one.
24:03
Yeah. Do you want to touch on Key
24:05
Concept 3, Scott? Yeah, Happy go.
24:09
There's one thing that I just love this.
24:11
I don't know where I came up with this.
24:13
I came up with this a while ago and we've talked about recovery.
24:19
And I've always thought of recovery guys get into this
24:23
healing process and they think they have to be something they
24:27
think I'm supposed to be. They look it down the road and
24:30
they think I'm supposed to be trustworthy, empathetic,
24:34
vulnerable, all the words. I think it really boils down to
24:39
recovery is stopping being who we're not.
24:44
Recovery is stopping being who we're not.
24:47
So if you're noticing that you're a people pleaser, you're
24:51
a controller, you're an avoidant, we stop being who
24:56
we're not so that we can allow the true parts of ourselves to
25:00
shine through. And if he said?
25:04
Key concept #3 is recovery requires accountability.
25:10
Accountability is the willingness to honest, to
25:13
honestly acknowledge what happened, the impact it created,
25:21
the harm that was caused, and the work necessary to repair the
25:26
damage. We talked about accountability
25:29
in so many ways. There's accountability in
25:33
sobriety, right? So there's accountability
25:35
partners and everything else. But when it boils down to it,
25:40
accountability is what impact have my behaviors had on my
25:45
partner and am I willing to stand in my?
25:48
Truth. Yeah.
25:51
Willing to stand in the truth. I love that accountability, just
25:54
it's so misunderstood. I hear about it and it makes me
25:57
cringe a little bit about in different ways.
25:59
It's understood like accountability is focused on the
26:02
other person, the damage that's done and what it takes.
26:06
It still brings me a little bit of like AI think my roots, my
26:14
journey in my life. Accountability.
26:16
It does feel like it's punishment.
26:18
There's some punishment needs to fit the crime and if I'm
26:21
accountable, then I'll experience some kind of misery
26:25
that will create some kind of justice.
26:27
And, and it's usually very distracting for my partner's
26:31
pain and it's usually not a part of her experience.
26:35
It's usually around like that self hatred that I just need to
26:37
think of a pile of crap enough. And I think there's all
26:42
honestly, I think there's no honestly, just some partners
26:50
that see some betrayed partners that see lack of accountability
26:54
and trying to help with accountability, trying to create
26:58
some accountability. And that's that can really only
27:00
be done for the person that did the hurt and the harm.
27:03
If you punish somebody that doesn't create accountability
27:06
has to be recognized within self.
27:08
Any thoughts on that, Scott? Yeah, maybe I'm taking a side
27:13
turn here. I also think sometimes we think
27:17
of accountability as, I'm sorry, taking accountability as well.
27:22
I said, I'm sorry, I've apologized.
27:25
I'm trying to be different and do different, boy.
27:28
Accountability is understanding the impact, truly being able to
27:38
understand how these behaviors affected another person so that
27:43
we can truly be in their experience.
27:47
Thank you. I'm, I need to, I think about
27:51
accountability being the, the ability to be able to recognize
27:54
4 things, what happened, the impact that it created, the harm
27:59
that it caused and the work necessary to repair the damage.
28:02
So those are the pieces of those are the pieces of
28:04
accountability. Yeah, absolutely.
28:08
OK, so let's talk about key concept #4 really, key concept
28:11
#4 is what you can expect because recovery does create
28:14
greater emotional capacity. So many people enter recovery
28:18
believing that the goal is to eliminate difficult emotions.
28:21
So when I go through my journey, I'm like, OK, I need to stuff my
28:25
emotions, talk them away even deeper than they are right now
28:28
because they're getting in the way.
28:30
But really, recovery actually increases my ability to be able
28:33
to my favorite, one of my favorite words ever, tolerate
28:36
different difficult emotions. So it goes, I used to run from
28:40
this. What I used to fit, I used to
28:42
run from this feeling. I used to hide this feeling is
28:44
to pretend like it didn't matter, and now I'm actually
28:46
able to be with this emotion, learn what it's trying to share,
28:51
learn what it has to offer, and then be able to.
28:56
I can just tolerate. That's called the window of
28:57
tolerance, by the way. I can stay inside of that.
29:00
Scott, what have you noticed from other men that as they move
29:03
through recovery, what it generates inside of them?
29:07
Boy, I'd say the number one thing that jumps out at me is
29:14
perceptions, perceptions of what the present is.
29:19
So many times I am working with a client and he's telling me
29:23
what's happened in the last week and he'll say she's attacking
29:28
me, she's bombarding me, she's coming at me with both barrels.
29:34
And you hear these giant words and I'll be like, Oh my God,
29:39
that sounds so scary. She's in fatigues and combat
29:43
boots and a helmet sounds really scary.
29:46
And it's like, well, no. And So what we realized is that
29:51
so many of these perceptions are framed through childhood, and it
29:59
makes. And so these perceptions make
30:03
present day so much bigger. And so we have to start to pick
30:08
apart how did these perceptions become so big in present day?
30:14
Because we're missing her whole experience when we're
30:18
experiencing her expressions of hurt, which sometimes come
30:22
across loud, angry, makes sense, but it's not attacking, right?
30:29
And so we have to be able to understand that our perception
30:34
is bigger than it needs to be and that we're missing the
30:37
sadness, the grief and the real and the real anger that's back
30:42
there. Because when we feel like we're
30:45
being attacked, of course we're going to get defensive.
30:48
We're going to defend against what's a perceived attack.
30:54
Yeah. And it is so perception.
30:57
So as you're sitting with the guy that's created grace and
31:00
greater emotional capacity, what does he now do with shame
31:03
compared to what he used to do with shame?
31:05
Oh, for sure. He's hopefully he's going to be
31:09
doing his work of reframing, of understanding where these
31:14
perceptions came from. He's going to be able to reframe
31:17
to, hey, I know this is my wife that's in pain and do I know her
31:22
to be an attacking critical person?
31:25
I don't. So why am I thinking that in
31:28
this moment? So they're going to be able to
31:31
understand, right? Be able to notice it in their
31:34
body. What's happening in my body
31:37
right now and what's the meaning I give to that?
31:41
Yeah. What's the meaning of that?
31:43
And then what's can I work with that thought to give it new
31:48
meaning? Can I think about this
31:49
differently? Thank you.
31:52
Yeah, it's equalizing of being around somebody that's going to
31:55
recovery is for both partners. Like the sun coming up, like
31:59
when you're driving through the night, if you've driven through
32:01
the night, it's pitch black and you keep driving, you driving
32:03
and it's like the way at what point did it become light
32:06
outside? At what point was it daylight?
32:09
And it is kind of nice when those moments go like, wow, it's
32:12
light now. But it's just that experience
32:16
that happens over time. But you are going to experience
32:19
being with a man that doesn't when he he's going to experience
32:22
shame, that's not going to go away.
32:24
Shame is going to do, but he's not going to shut down like he
32:27
used to. And they're going to see
32:28
improvements there. And he's not going to run from
32:31
that discomfort. He's not going to shut down as a
32:33
part of it. OK, last key concept to share
32:36
with you all today, which is the probably one of my more favorite
32:40
ones, Scott, and if you could just join with me in this one.
32:44
Recovery is like, so it's usually so uneven.
32:48
We'll all sit in a Full disclosure and two extremely
32:53
brave and courageous people share and witness and listen to
32:58
truth or what actually happened. And it is so painful, but it is
33:03
also such a spiritual slash, such an amazing experience to
33:08
see two people go through that. Really rewarding and hard.
33:12
And one of the main things that the guys that I work with will
33:15
be like, I don't ever want to do this stuff again.
33:17
I don't ever want to come back here again.
33:19
But growth often includes things that are going to include all of
33:23
them, successes, setbacks, breakthroughs, discouraging
33:27
moments, periods of progress, periods of struggle.
33:30
So there is going to be this after truth is given.
33:33
There's going to be ups and downs, not those severe downs.
33:35
We don't need to go back to full fledge acting out.
33:38
We didn't do any of that stuff. But if you're as a betrayed
33:41
partner and this goes so scary to watch some old patterns go,
33:45
oh, I can sense some stuff. What is what are there setbacks
33:50
that can be a part of recovery? Are there discouraging moments
33:52
that are a part of recovery? Which ones are they?
33:54
Right? So we want to get into the weeds
33:56
of sorting out some of the myths around perfection, right?
34:02
What to actually watch for when my partner falls down and if
34:06
they do fall down, what does that look like?
34:08
Thoughts on that, Scott? What's coming up for me right
34:11
now, Luke, is that I imagine this thought of a set back feels
34:17
like we're going all the way to the beginning, right?
34:20
And I really want to honor that part of this process.
34:24
It can really feel like we've gone all the way to the
34:27
beginning. I remember so many of those
34:30
moments. The feelings are not facts.
34:34
And yes, it can feel like you've gone all the way to beginning.
34:37
But we do have to recognize how much work we've done.
34:42
And sure, we maybe have taken a couple steps back in most cases.
34:47
We're not all going all the way to the beginning.
34:49
We're there's been too much growth.
34:51
Yeah, yeah. And how do we notice that?
34:53
We want to talk about it. All right, everybody, it was
34:57
good to spend time with you today.
34:58
So that's a partial of key. That's a partial of our first
35:01
topic in the making sense of his began behavior.
35:04
So if you are a betrayed partner and you're just like, what do I
35:08
watch for? What do I not?
35:10
That's what Scott and I will be going through.
35:11
Please feel free to jump into a consultation with us to explore
35:14
more about it. We are going to be having guests
35:17
join us, which are the trail trauma experts.
35:19
They're going to join Scott and I to also validate your
35:23
experience and speak to it. And if anything else, if you
35:27
don't do that, thanks for spending time with us.
35:29
It's good to be spending time with you.
35:30
Scott. Any closing remarks?
35:32
No, I don't think so, Luke. I am really excited about this.
35:35
I've done similar things in my own practice not to.
35:39
That's depth and I'm really looking forward to doing it.
35:43
Wonderful. It's good to spend time with
35:45
you, Scott. We'll talk to you all later.
35:47
Take care. All right.
35:47
Thanks, Luke. Hi everyone.
35:51
I am excited to tell you about a new group that's coming to
35:54
choose Recovery Services. It's run by Luke Gordon and
35:58
Scott Blundo, and it's called Making Sense of His Behavior.
36:02
This group is for women, $25 a week to come and learn the why
36:10
he does what he does. They're going to dive into
36:13
things like compulsive behaviors, secrecy, shame,
36:16
emotional immaturity, what real recovery and healing looks like,
36:22
and also for you, how to find clarity and stability again.
36:27
The reason I love this so much is when you start to understand
36:32
the why at a deeper level, it helps you not internalize those
36:35
behaviors. So it can be really freeing for
36:37
you. If this sounds like something
36:39
that you would be interested in or that you're needing, join us.
36:44
Choose Recovery services.com. If part of you keeps wondering,
36:52
should I come to this courage to thrive intensive, I want you to
36:56
listen to that question with compassion.
36:59
Because many women minimize their pain, they tell
37:01
themselves. Other people have it worse.
37:03
Or I should be over this by now. Or maybe I just need him to get
37:07
better and then I'll be OK. But the trail trauma impacts
37:11
your mind, your body, your nervous system, your sense of
37:14
safety, your identity, and your ability to trust yourself.
37:18
And healing was never meant to happen alone.
37:21
Courage to Thrive is a space where you can finally exhale.
37:25
A space where you don't have to explain why it hurts so deeply.
37:29
A space where women around you simply get it.
37:33
You'll experience powerful workshops, experiential healing
37:36
activities, nervous system support, connection, education,
37:41
and practical tools that you can take home with you.
37:44
Most women leave saying I finally don't feel crazy
37:47
anymore. And many also leave realizing
37:50
that I matter too. So if something inside you feels
37:54
drunk, this experience honor that.
37:57
That quiet voice inside you may already know what you need.
38:01
I hope you'll join us August 25th through 28th in Spanish
38:04
Fork, UT. Hey, thanks for joining us
38:13
today. If this is something that you
38:15
connected with, I'd love to meet with you more and talk about it.
38:18
So what you can do is go to chooserecoveryservices.com or
38:21
check the show notes and there what we can do is set up a quick
38:24
conversation. Thanks so much for listening to
38:27
Beyond the Facade where we unmask the authentic self.