Latest / Making Shooters Better / You Don’t Have to Be the Best to Belong: Army Veteran Viviana Morales Kolb

Transcript

You Don’t Have to Be the Best to Belong: Army Veteran Viviana Morales Kolb · Making Shooters Better

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing like spreading the misery.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I would love people to suffer when they came to the classes.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I can protect my family, you know, if my heart rate is com like I I just jumped out of bed.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: My heart rate is completely through the roof because now someone has walked into my home, but I still have the competence and the ability to do what I need to do under that level of stress.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest is Army veteran, endurance athlete, wife, mother of four, and lifelong student Viviana Morales Kolb.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: After 12 years of military service, Viviana discovered that taking off the uniform also meant losing the mission, camaraderie, and the sense of belonging that had shaped much of her adult life.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: She found pieces of that connection through veteran organizations, fitness, and perhaps unexpectedly on the shooting range.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode, we're going to talk about why community matters, why surrounding yourself with people who are better than you can accelerate your growth, and why mastering firearms can be especially empowering for women, both as a practical skill and as a powerful way to build confidence.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: We'll also explore the steps women can take to begin training, find the right support, and grow without feeling they have to arrive already knowing everything there is to know about firearms.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is a conversation about service, humility, resistance, and having the courage to be a beginner.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get into it.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Viviana, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Terry.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for inviting me onto the podcast.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to this.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I ask every guest, just to get things started, how old are you when you first started shooting?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, uh very, very interesting question.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I did not start shooting until I was 18 years old.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I joined the military um when I was 17.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: By the time I was 18, I was already in basic training.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: And my first uh time holding a weapon um at all was in the military when I was in basic training in the army.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it was the army you joined?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yes, it was the army I joined.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: So when you you did that was the first thing was a rifle, I assume, that you you started shooting?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the first thing we had was the rifle, the M16.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I know they're gaining M4s now, much uh more of a comfortable weapon.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we didn't have any collapsible butt socks or anything like that.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, one size fits all there.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: One size fits all.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh still had um our bayonet mounts on the front of the rifles when I went in.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we were still doing uh bayonet familiarization training, which is not a thing anymore.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is it not?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Have they taken away the bayonets?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: They have taken away the bayonets completely.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um the bayonet course is overran by weeds now and and overgrowth of trees.
• 3:12
  unknown: Funny.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is not being utilized.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, I remember our instructor when they said, Okay, we're gonna show you how to put the bayonet on, how to use your rifle when the bayonet is attached.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we all kind of looked at each other and he could see us glancing amongst ourselves, and he says, Yes, if you have to put bayonets on, this shit has really hit the fat.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's really hit the exactly.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: You're that close, and that's where you're at.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, good luck.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know things have re the wheels have come off the wagon.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you did you because you said you you joined at 17, you tried to enlist at 17, you had to wait till you're 18.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: What was the deal there?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I enlisted when I was 17.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it just so happened that my basic training date fell right after my birth date.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I was already in um had my contract signed and ready to go.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then within basic training, I had a birth date.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: I joined I turned 18, and then that's when I actually started shooting.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because of the way the training coincided.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was like a week or two in before we started our marksmanship.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's fairly young to go in.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Did you always know that the military was your path?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I did not always know the military was my path, but I was inspired um just by s circumstances in my life, just knowing that I wanted to do something better.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to be committed to something greater than what I was currently doing.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to go into secondary education at the time because I felt like I was more passionate about doing something more than going and doing more school uh at that at that time.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then coming from, you know, my family that I came from, we were always passionate about serving others, but also it was good for me to get out of uh that situation at home too and do something bigger than myself.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so there was a catalyst behind you wanting to get to the military and get out away from home.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And G.I.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Jane.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, a totally different uh branch of the military, but also when that movie came out, that was uh that was a big one for me too.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was a woman empowerment in the military.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't she end up having to shave her head?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: I assume you didn't end up doing that.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: No, I kept my hair.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: I kept my hair for a while.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: I did uh go through phases of very, very short hairstyles while I was in, but we kind of landed on the middle ground.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but going through military training, having long hair is nothing but a pain because you spend so much of your time sweaty and dirty.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'd imagine it's just like, all right, I'm I'm cutting it down and I'm gonna, you know, work with a short haircut here instead of having long locks.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's absolutely a pain too when you start adding in different forms of headgear uh and your you know, your helmets and things like that, and you have this giant bun in the back.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because when when I came in, the policy was you had to have your hair in a bun all the time.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um now they they allow them to wear the ponytails to kind of alleviate that issue, but um yeah, what a pain because my ACH would fall like forward in front of my eyes while I was shooting because my bun was annoying.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: So just silly things like that that don't they're not conducive to training.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it's funny because but before I joined up, I went in for a haircut of my own volition.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: So before the military cut it all off, went down to like a number two buzz cut, all over, just got rid of the lot.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then once you once you joined in, you have a couple of days kind of finding your feet.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: But during that first like 24 to 48 hours, they send you for a haircut, and I had to pay to have it done again.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: And when I sat in the chair, the guy looks at me like, Why are you even here?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that was my question to the drill instructors, and they were like, We don't give a shit.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Go get your haircut again.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I paid it was five pounds for him to do the exact same thing to me that I already had done.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, and there you have it.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: That just some sums up the military attitude to this post.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that is still happening today.
• 7:40
  unknown: Right?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that is that is still, I mean, um, so my last two and a half years in the military, I was a drill instructor, I was a drill sergeant.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so still sending, still sending the trainees for haircuts, even though they barely have any hair to to begin with.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so what was your role while you were in?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um while while I was in the military, I I enlisted as a preventive medicine specialist.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: So uh in our realm, we focus highly on environmental health, public health, and uh disease prevention.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um so just just all-encompassing holistic portions of of public health.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then a lot of people uh called us the uh water purification specialists, because that's how they saw us, or the bug catchers, because we also surveyed for pests and did pest control.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you what, it's all fun and games until you get some sort of food poisoning from bad water.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because I had dysentery while I was in Africa and I have I came back looking anorexically thin.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just there was just no and everybody went down with it because they were giving us bottled water to drink, however, they were cooking in regular water and they weren't boiling it for long enough before they cooked.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, everybody went down with it.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Horrendous.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: So that is horrendous.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's one of those things that you say you laugh about it, you're like, that's your job.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then you go, Well, if you get this parasite or if you, you know, are deployed overseas and you get that level of sick, your life is miserable.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Very so yeah, very true.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we had little parts.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, go ahead.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, go ahead.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just those little portions of our job.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, people didn't realize until yeah, they were in trouble.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's when they were like, Oh, this is what you do.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, you're like, thank you.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's exactly what I do.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Keep you bloody healthy.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: So how long were you in total?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was in for 12 years.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you did 12?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's a long time.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And for the most part, did you enjoy it?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: I did, I did.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: I really enjoyed um my primary MOS.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: I really enjoyed the opportunity to go to become a drill instructor.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that was uh one of my favorite assignments, honestly, uh out of the 12 years that I was in.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: I just felt like I made a lot of impact there.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a great uh tour, as I say.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: 12 years.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, that's a good that's a good leg.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: So what was a catalyst for you wanted to get out, just kind of had enough of it?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely my family.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: So at the time uh my my children were a big catalyst of getting out.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh my oldest son uh was having some difficulty in school, and then with all the the movement and transition, I was also a single mother at the time.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: So just having that ability to um have more freedom to raise my son without having to augment a lot of his raising with help from my family.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's yeah, that makes complete sense.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because it it's tough to have any kind of a family and be in the military.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it is, and um definitely tough as a as any single parent, whether you're a female or male in the military, because they have expectations and policies set out and they want to make sure that you have always have follow-on care, um, just in case anything pops up.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: They want your child to be taken care of so they can go and send you off and and complete missions.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: So after you left the military, obviously you left for a good cause, but did you ever find yourself in reflection missing some of the either the camaraderie or the lifestyle that the military provides?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I and sometimes I s I still uh reflect and miss certain aspects of it, but I think that was probably the most difficult uh transition I've dealt with when I came out of the military.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: I had quite a hardship, you know, transitioning from that military to civilian life and then finding also that community base, and that's kind of what draws me to where I work today and also um those communities that I go out and do events with today.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I um currently work for a veteran service organization, but also I'm very um big on being part of the red, white, and blue community as well too, because we bring uh veterans, active duty and and and veterans together and their family members, and we do events together to kind of rebuild or I guess maintain that community that you had when you were in very important.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: It is, I think.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Every veteran can relate to the transitional period from leaving.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I was very excited about leaving.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was done by the time it happened for me.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was also I had moving to the US on the horizon, so I had a number of things to look forward to.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And yet there was still about probably about two years, I feel, with what before I fully got my civilian head on to the point that I feel like, okay, I can do this.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's such a a world of difference between the military universe and life and then civilian life.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it just took a while.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I really did miss the connections and friends that I'd made in.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And they they are still either veterans or law enforcement or first responders.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the groups of people I typically can just walk into a conversation with and go, oh good, here we are.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like define that that commonality.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: It does, but it takes a while.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: It really does.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: I totally agree.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's so funny you say two years, because I feel like around two, two to three years was that that was my timeline too, to finally feel a sense of comfort being out of the military and then trying to and then finding my way and assimilating into different communities and and feeling yeah, like I'm part of something again.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um and also just that sense of I would even say I I know this term is used kind of loosely sometimes, but the sense of purpose that you felt in the military because it's so mission-driven, and you always have something that you're trying to achieve while you're in the entire time.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um so then having that that mission focus coming out or not having it coming out is is also a difficult thing to deal with.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I can understand why people go uh law enforcement or sis or something similar, because then you you have this constant uh mission that you're you're doing each and every day.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, plus it's hard to find people that really have your back in the way that military and you know first responders you you know that you're looking left and right, and it's you know that hold the line mentality, right?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: The phalanx.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: We know we stand or we fall together.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that that kind of um mindset is just rare.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's very rare and it's rare, especially in civilian life.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely agree.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh and and I love I love that these communities exist, all these service organizations, um, even communities that bring in, you know, your law enforcement or other military agencies together.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that way they have some kind of fall-on um either within while they're serving or, you know, post their transition out.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's so important that we have that.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and and that's kind of what leads me to most of what I do today and and and I enjoy it and I love to bring other individuals in that I know are going through that that struggle when they initially come out.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: So when you first left, is that where where you went to helping veterans or you you had intermediate jobs or intermediary jobs before you ended up doing that?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Very intermediary jobs.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it took it took quite a while for me to find that area of emphasis that I wanted to be to be in.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh initially, I think, and I think this happens to a lot of us veterans.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Initially, I was like, okay, I'm gonna finish school, and then this degree that I get, this piece of paper I get, I'm gonna utilize this on the civilian side.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is all I need once I have this done.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Everything's gonna work out in this perfect, you know, package plan.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh definitely does not work that way.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so so I I initially when I got in the military, I got a master's in education, and I told myself, okay, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go teach and um work on my teaching license and teach, you know, students.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: So in the meantime, um what I was doing was I was uh substituting, uh I was uh doing ASVAB testing for students in high school, um getting still still somewhat connected to the military.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're like we're trying to get you, draw you in.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then I realized that this wasn't an area that was fulfilling me as much.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and I don't want to take away from teachers because God bless them and what they go through.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And having gone through that experience, I have so much more um respect uh just for what they go through on a daily basis, because I mean just substituting their classroom, their classrooms, uh different varying uh age levels and and grades.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um wow the the amount of passion that you have to have behind that career and mindset um is amazing.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: So shout out to the teachers.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but no, it wasn't a path for me.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: So so then I slowly started transitioning into the communities that I felt closer uh connected to.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then the the next position that I got that I stayed in with it for a few years was at a police department.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing data management uh for Fairbanks Police Department in Alaska, um, with the hopes of eventually crossing over and trying to go to academy and become a a law enforcement officer.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very long story um in itself.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up having two more younger children, you know, and that's kind of changed out my before planning process.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but that was the first job um out of the military that I've really enjoyed.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I was happy and and just coming into the office and being surrounded by like you said, those like-minded individuals and that that feeling where okay, these these are my people.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um so um yes, so uh it's it's like no other way to explain it.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, oh wow, this works out perfectly.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and then um and then once we moved from Alaska back into Texas, uh I I uh tried to apply for Academy, then found out I was pregnant with my uh now five-year-old.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: So so that took a little bit of a turn.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's where fitness uh came more into play because of COVID.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: There was the COVID shutdown, and then I had my son, and then um fit you know how everyone was like out jogging and exercising and getting back in shape.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's where I kind of had a pivot and worked more toward the getting people together on the fitness side of the community, um, but with military uh veterans and active duty.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it sounds like one of the things that's been a driving force for you has been not only seeking to find camaraderie and commonality with people yourself, but also build those communities for others.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because at every turn it's like, okay, I'm heading this way, but over here, you know, sometimes by happenstance, you've ended up in a place where community has been a featured part of the drive behind what you're doing.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you you were into shooting, you're an endurance athlete, mother of four.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Where in all of that did the the fitness and the shooting kind of all kind of m mush up together and end up being something that you felt like combined well?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Love this question because I was talking to one of my uh friends earlier about this.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people have, and I'm sure you know this, they have a misconception that if you're in the military, you're shooting.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: all the time or you're you're you're constantly ingrained in the realm of fitness and strength training and and and things like that but that's not quite true especially in a support mos like I had a medical support mos so uh our shoot our our our shooting program was we're you're gonna qualify once a year and and that's all that we're gonna ask of you where you're gonna qualify in your assigned weapon once a year and and when you and the way we do that is just by getting you out there that day of the year.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're not gonna do any extra follow-on training or anything like that.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna have inter any intermediate uh time at the range um and then you you only qualify on one weapon system you we I've I never shot pistol while I was in the military I only shot you know rifle yeah yeah it's because officers were assigned our medical service officers were assigned a pistol and a rifle but we were only assigned rifles and so that is another misconception we only have familiar familiarization training with better weapon systems but not an actual assigned weapon uh either than the rifle and um same thing with fitness you know you they they give you a guideline this is your PT test this is what we want you to achieve and then most of us we just worked out to that standard so push ups sit ups and a two mile run and then so transitioning out of the military what ended up happening um and I I honestly too toward the end when I got um merged in with some combat MOSs um just seeing that there's a whole nother life out there that you can uh go to the range on your own you can work on your own proficiencies uh you can do strength training you can uh empower yourself in ways that maybe you aren't necessarily getting because you're in the military and that's it and that that because that's not always what's happening with everyone that enlists they're not getting all of that while they're there um and and especially now um being merged in with other uh branches like your crazy Marines, your your the army the navy and then you have people that served in um positions that I would have never had the ability to have camaraderie or contact with like someone that served in a special operations command.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're out here at the range together or we're talking about what he does or they do for their workouts and then it's like a whole nother world.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I would say post transition is when I really got that exposure to shooting going to the range strength training and then the real meat and potatoes of of it all so do uh if you were getting into fitness at that point were you just improvising your workouts?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because I assume at that point with COVID I it was such a pain in the neck.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: But there were no gyms that were open you couldn't go to CrossFit so did you just improvise your workouts at home?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: No oh yes a workouts at home.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I we started building up a home gym and then that's when I started improvising and then of course with the explosion in social media uh you're watching all these i influencers doing their workouts and you're like okay I'm gonna do that I'm gonna try that they're saying this is gonna build this you know um so that was a really big um big thing at that time and then prior to the shutdown I had actually applied for a position to go to this um course for veterans another another uh service organization at the time was called FitOps now is called the University of Health and Performance so what they do and and still do is they do a three week um block of training on site in Arkansas and they teach you uh strength strength and condition just all the realms of of health and wellness but a real big focus on strength and conditioning and programming and how to how to do that with within your community and for yourself so you basic you come out of there with a personal training certificate um and then you're able to kind of go out and go forth and do uh great things so is it a choice of yours to merge because I've thought I saw some pictures of you look like you were pretty being pretty active at the range and of course there you know there are range trips where you are static and the other are range trips where you are like you're mixing it up you've got the cardio you've got the muscular endurance as well as the strength and then the shooting.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: So um with within our within our group that so this is a group within Houston Texas and we love to go out and shoot together we enjoy that as a group mixed with uh law enforcement um military veterans and active duty because we have a set of recruiters that likes to come out uh out there with us as well um so we are also big fans of tactical games so we love to uh watch and follow tactical games actually one of the law enforcement officers that helps host uh these range events he actually participated in the tactical games I can't remember what year but um he went out and he competed so this is something that he likes to do uh like a condensed version of that uh for our community and then of course everyone loves that so have you actually participated in any of the actual the challenges or the tests I'm not sure what how they refer to them but doing the tactical games yourself or he just puts on the trainings and you attend I have not so I have not participated in any official tactical games um however I do participate in these events I I would love at some point to make a goal to participate in one uh I do I do want to say for transparency that I would love to increase my proficiency in the pistol prior to going out and competing at tactical games.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: So so when you do the tactical games when they are on is it rifle and pistol or is it just pistol?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because I haven't done the either so from what I'm seeing because they'll broadcast it uh I I'll I'll definitely shoot you the link too it's it's very cool.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um they are doing a mix of both so they are doing rifle and pistol uh they mix a lot of the fitness uh aspect of it a lot of functional uh fitness they I think last year they even had it to where um they were doing run and shoots as part of that first day that they went out there um so very very cool uh training and it I th I think it's about three to four days of come of competing against um other organizations or individuals and then you know then at the end they call out the who who the winners are I taught a bunch of tactical classes in the self-defense for a long time after getting out of the military and when I taught my tactical classes I always incorporated uh either Mui pads or some form of physicality to make sure heart rates were elevated that the stress was on I would use sometimes those you have the uh shocker knives right you can put uh you can press a button on the handle of the knife and it creates a current around the blade so it would give you pretty sharp like that I'd use those anything that would incorporate a lot of discomfort for the people that were at the class because to me it was always okay that's an element of realism that's very hard to replicate but getting uh emerging fitness as well as your responsiveness to stress and handling your elevated heart rates and also making good, you know, conscious or conscientious decisions under stress.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: This was all stuff I absolutely loved.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: I loved both being a recipient or in a class where that was a part and parcel of the curriculum but also then doing that to others.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing like spreading the misery but I would love people to suffer when they came to the classes because they would leave and there was there was camaraderie in the suffering for sure.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: But also there was then a sense for the individuals and they left, they had achieved a new or unlocked a new level of understanding and ability within the confines of that class, right?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: They they would feel like okay I've done something now that is going to be literally transferable in a real world situation where my life's on the line or the life of my family or the people I love are on the line that is going to help me hopefully be victorious because I can handle more than you know the bad guy or the other person I'm having to you know go head to head with.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes I I love that.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that makes total sense because there is a different type of competencies that you're building when you're doing it under stress.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: And just like you know to echo back what I was saying, you know, in the military when we would um go and qualify, we're qualifying under conditions that are less than stressful let's just say that.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then so adding that element of stress uh builds a lot more confidence in my opinion in a real life scenario than you would ever do just going out and and qualifying on a on a range in in a basic way.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I really really enjoy that and I think it's so important yeah for people to like you said go under that stress and and commiserate a little bit but then come out of it like wow you know I I can I can run you know and shoot or or or I can shoot someone while shoot someone sorry I'm thinking about defense in a defensive sense but I I can protect my family you know if my heart rate is complete like I I just jumped out of bed my heart rate is completely through the roof because now someone has walked into my home but I still have the competence and the ability to do what I need to do under that level of stress.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people don't would not know you know how that would feel like or wouldn't be prepared for that.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and I think it's great you know especially for us women to uh put ourselves into that situation because in situations where we would have to like elicit some type of like you said defense uh against some type of danger we're gonna be in a highly stressed uh you know environment we're gonna at that moment you're you're terri you're either terrified you're highly stressed you're running uh something is going on where you're gonna have to be able to to do what you need to do under that circumstance so yeah yeah agreed well we yeah when it comes pound for pound women are a disadvantage when it comes to fighting off uh an attacker even if it's a similarly sized guy you are already at a disadvantage what levels the playing field firearms great but you've got to have the training to go along with it so that you're not you know the at the critical moment you have to implement and use that tool suddenly find yourself you've got eight thumbs and no fingers for you just hands are you know juggling with you like I I got no idea.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got to practice under stress to ensure you manage it.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: But fitness becomes a huge part of that because if you can manage the stress that comes with the fear and the heart rate this elevated and you do that through experiencing stressful training, you're gonna hopefully you'll you'll manage it considerably better than you would have and maybe you manage it to a degree that allows you to at least get the gun and the tool or the whatever the defensive mechanism is into the fight and put the other person at a disadvantage and I bloody love that.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes yes I I have another uh friend of mine and I love the way he places this he always says you know the the weapon in itself and and having the competence and ability to utilize it gives you a certain amount of lethality but the fitness increases that you know tenfold because now you have you have this tool but you also have the physical capability to you know carry that out or if something is going wrong uh you have that physical ability and then it it just increases your lethality at that point.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very important to have the combination of both.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I was teaching a class it was actually it was personal safety how to recognize threats based on nonverbals but I it was a room full of female realtors and I I did ask a qualified what I was about to say and teach them with a question first.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I asked how many would carry a firearm so for self-defense purposes and you know maybe about a third of the room was was for it.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: A third was somewhat I don't know I've never really thought about it.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then a third was absolutely not I would never have a gun I think they're dangerous you know all the usual arguments for not having a firearm.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: So then I said okay well regardless of where you landed on that question I want to know what your plan is if the worst happens.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay you're you're in a house with someone you just met you've only had maybe a few minutes at best to assess who that you think that person is and then it goes sideways.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: What is your plan?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people don't they haven't really thought that through and if they have they tend to give themselves a perfect fairy tale ending to whatever this encounter was going to be.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I had one woman just absolutely crack me up.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: She stood up out of her chair now this is a room for like 200 women all sitting around at a sort of a banquet you know a hotel conference room and she stands up with all the enthusiasm and gusto you can imagine and said I would knee him in the balls.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was her plan to the creek.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like that's great.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: And of course there was lots of cheering and whooping and hollering and everybody was laughing and I said that is fantastic.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: I let her have her moment in the in the sun and then I said okay but unfortunately your guy had a medical accident when he was young and he only has one ball and you missed it.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: So what are you doing next?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the whole room kind of stopped and she looked around looking for some sort of support and you could tell the whole room was like well damn girl what what is your plan?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: And she just sat down very quietly and said I have no idea and I said okay then let's take that a step further right we have if X a lot of times people have an ideal in their head if X happens I will do Y and the outcome will be Z.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's always a favorable outcome right one knee to the balls will end my problem.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: No absolutely cannot be taught that you can expect that to be the outcome.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: So then we started talking about self-defense and realistically how what can they expect to do and then what are the tools that they can utilize and implement as a force multiplier and eventually and I love this part we ended up with about 90% of the class going I really do think I should probably get a firearm.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I again I said yes if you're gonna get training and if not it's probably not a good idea.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're gonna get training bloody right and it was funny to see an entire room of women go yes I think I'm gonna go get a gun and then I'm gonna go to a class and I was like this is fantastic.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like welcome to the dark side yeah welcome to exactly and yeah absolutely the the and and the training is a big part of the like you said the full force multiplier just having that confidence to utilize it and then knowing what you're doing.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: That way you aren't just carrying you know just the carry and then you you we see a lot of funny videos of things that happen when when someone pulls a weapon out and they've never used it and um it's this is not the ideal time to find out you're incompetent.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: At that point you're just you're just gonna have to throw your pistol at someone's head and hope it works.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Hope the sharp end of the pistol grip hits them in the head or something.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes exactly women that might be listening going okay maybe I might consider you know acquiring firearm getting some training what advice might you give them if they're feeling you know intimidated at the process where would you advise them to to start that process?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing question.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: If there is someone in your life that you feel comfortable uh going out and and looking for a weapon with I would definitely do that.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: That way you don't feel uncomfortable going up to a sales representative like hey I'm here to buy I have no idea what I'm here to buy and then that way you're going with someone who has a little bit of n of knowledge and could kind of help and guide you.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Also help answer some of those questions uh to that representative that you may not know um answer.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Also try different uh weapons uh hold them in your hand and make sure they feel comfortable uh to you because that that's a it that's a big one I think too and then um and then going somewhere that allows you to test that firearm and that way when you test it you you know okay this is something that I feel comfortable holding I feel comfortable also shooting uh it's not flying out of my head I feel like I have some sense of control of this you know of this weapon and then of course the training uh so I love I love the the ranges now that had the combination of the you have your store uh you have your range and they could do it all in one location um and then a lot of them pair in instructors too and they'll say hey we have a free women's you know handgun class on Saturday or something like that and that's also something I would suggest too for women who may be a little bit hesitant uh to go to one of those courses and then you have other women who are doing the the same thing you're doing they're going to an intro to handgun class and then you're all there together.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that kind of helps with that discomfort.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I agree.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've had a couple of guests on here one was from a girl in a gun or armed women of America there are a lot of clubs that you can look to look to uh in your state where they have meetings and etc and I think that a supportive environment for your first few experiences or just joining and and going in you know whole hog, these organizations are an amazing location and place to go in and feel as comfortable as possible because it is bloody tough to go in to any new range it's blasting you've got some you know guy next to you throwing 308s downrange, you know, with a muzzle break on and you're just you're flinching and starting like go into an environment that's as you know calm and as supportive as possible and have your first few experiences you know with a group of individuals that are all learning alongside you.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a lot to be said for that sort of supportive environment particularly for women in what might be otherwise described as a male dominated area of training but there are so many great instructors there are so many great groups for women to join and I think if you're going to explore getting a hang on that's a a brilliant place to start and begin your journey and get familiar with it and hey have a laugh while you're doing it right there's something to be said for having fun while you learn.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely absolutely and then of course you know you could pick out some fun targets so if you like uh shooting people or kicking guys in the balls you just put up a target and shoot at it shoot at some balls think about it if she had stood up and said I would shoot him in the balls I would have been okay well I can see how that is going to achieve the objective motivating factor to work on.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: Just a quick reminder if You're enjoying the episode.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to go ahead and hit that like button, subscribe, and share with a friend.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: We appreciate the support.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now back to the episode.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you've actually been very open about the fact shooting was not one of your strong suits.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like with the classes and stuff you've taken now, you're starting to make inroads with competence and you're feeling, you know, better with the pistol?
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and so funny enough, you know, even going out to the the second, I think it was the second tactical games event, uh, having Kristen there was a real, really big uh help to me because just getting from her perspective and then having her uh look and assess my pistol grip, giving me tips.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um so important to have a really good um informed instructor, uh someone with a lot of experience to kind of give you some positive feedback and then help you out.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because um Kristen would be proud of me.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: I shot a lot better last time after that experience with her.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and for those who don't know, Kristen is actually heads up the marketing for laser ammo.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: She's an amazing shooter, but also she's a great instructor as well.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I can see her picking up some tips and tricks from her and getting that support because she's also another firecracker who she's not gonna give you praise unless you've actually earned it.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: So she said you did a good job.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: You did a good job.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Kristen is awesome, and then having women like that in the field, you know, with that uh that competence is is amazing and it's a motivating factor there because now you have you're like, wow, look at what she can do.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely want to try to, you know, inch up to this.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: So very cool.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one of the uh other female shooters I know is exceptionally good is Gabby Franco.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: And she was on Topshop season four with me, but she's also an Olympic shooter and she does a lot of instruction on performance as well as shooting.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the things I think that I heard her uh talking about with a group of women was the manipulation of the firearm in smaller hands, even if you have a smaller pistol, can still be somewhat of a challenge.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so having a woman show the shortcuts or the sort of the cheat codes to making the firearm work, so you are comp confident and comfortable in in firearm manipulation, even if your hands are a little smaller or the gun is a little bigger.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: But it's knowing you're in charge of the gun, the gun's not in charge of you.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: And she was teaching some things that a lot of male instructors probably would have missed because she's coming from the standpoint.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she's uh she's petite.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I don't know, she was maybe 5'2 or 5'3, but she shoots brilliantly.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'd put her head to head with you know just about any competitive shooter in the country.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: But there are some things she has to do slightly differently in order to facilitate manipulating the firearm.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: And she was teaching that to a group, and you could s you sort of saw the group going, Hey, okay, yeah, I got it.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like that makes sense to them.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: And they were able to utilize those tips and tricks.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can also find a female instructor that, you know, has sort of taken the same path or a similar path that you're taking now, and they can teach you some of the things that otherwise might be overlooked.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's definitely helpful.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: So have you ever have you ever met Gabby?
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: I have not met Gabby.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so far I've only met Kristen, so yeah.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: If you get a chance, take one of Gabby's classes too.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: I know she travels all over the country to do it, but she's a Yeah, she's she's uh she's fun as well.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: She's a bubbly little personality and she brings a lot of enthusiasm to it.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: Very good, yeah.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: Enthusiasm is much needed in that space for sure.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: You want to make it like, you know, it's it's important, you know, to make it fun, but also is it's important to make sure it's safe as well, too.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's a good combo.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm glad you mentioned that because you're a mother of four, and obviously shooting and fitness, etc., is all a part and parcel of your life.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Does do you think learning to shoot gives you a I should say I need to ask this differently.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: How do you approach carrying and owning firearms when you have children?
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: So carrying and own so of course um I have a mix of older children and then younger children.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: With with the fact that I have, you know, uh my sons in the house, I definitely make sure that the firearm is in a secret location.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just put it that way.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: In a location that is still accessible if I if if is it is necessary and there's some type of event that happens at home.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so just making sure it's accessible, but also in a place where it is safely uh out of little hands in in in the event.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: So um so so that's I think placement in the home is very important and just making sure that you know if you do not want your children to have access to, which especially at certain ages, we we just they're a little kids are a little unpredictable, we don't want them to have access to it.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um my plan is uh for my older sons to get them out there and get them familiarized with the weapon.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't done that yet, but that is my plan.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: I've spoken to my oldest son and he is very much interested in getting familiarized with some training and and shooting.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: So um I'm excited to get him out there because I think that's also uh an important aspect of it is getting them comfortable with it and understanding, like you said, that you're in charge of the weapon and and then just explaining to them you know how to utilize it safely, but also what when and why um we would we would utilize this uh this weapon system.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: So um so that is a that is a follow-on plan that I have um to get my older kids out there as well too and get them comfortable.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: How old are your oldest?
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: So my oldest is 19.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I have a 19-year-old, I have a 14-year-old, and then a five and two-year-old, and they're all boys, so wow, you have your hands full.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, definitely.
• 50:53
  unknown: Yeah.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: They think it's cool.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: They love they love seeing me shoot.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: They love seeing you shoot.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: They would love to share that time with mom learning how to shoot.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: We started as off very early.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: The education was a big part and parcel of that.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: We used the finger style combination locks when that was the only thing you could get.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then we moved on to buy uh biometric one so you can put a fingerprint on the second it opens up.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, so there was always uh a safe place to keep them, but also a safe place that was still accessible.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because I can't tell you how many people are here, they have guns, and they're like, Well, I put the gun in a lockbox over there, I put the ammo in another cupboard, I got the magazine on my socks drawer, and you're like, What are you doing?
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: If there's an emergency, you're done.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: It frustrates the hell out of me.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, keep No, there's no time for that crap.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it was but it became a part and parcel of their growing up because I've always shot and I wanted to teach them the fundamentals of shooting, and by that I mean, you know, the safety first and then the f the shooting.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: But my son, we gave him uh some nerf guns.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, your kids get them, right?
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: He's about seven or eight years old.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: He'd already been shooting an air rifle by then.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: And when we gave him the nerf gun, we said you can shoot any inanimate objects in the house, but you cannot muzzle sweep any living person in this house.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: So he would go around the house, and I mean fully, like stacked on a doorway, is slicing the pie, edging and looking around the corners, and then he'd make entry and he would shoot the lamps and the couch cushions and you know, anything else except one of us.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: And the very first time I took him out, sort of with a group of dads and a group of their kids, predominantly sons, but some daughters as well, with rifles, my son was the only one in that entire bloody group who never had his finger on the trigger.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: At any point, he wasn't on sites and on target, and he never muzzle swept anyone.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody else was like a bloody free-for-all.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm looking at the other dads going, what the hell are you teaching?
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Oh, your son is so good, right?
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: That was an amazing yeah, that was an amazing creative tactic that you used, and I think that's awesome.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: I might I might have to steal that one from you.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: That is awesome.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: It was very cool.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it was phenomenal.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it made you know dad very proud.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: I would see him stack up on a doorway, he's slicing the pie a little bit at a time.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: The only thing you could ever see of him was the muzzle and like one eye.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he was doing it right.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: You couldn't even see his shoulder.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: He'd be leaning out, getting it done, wait until he found his target, take the shot, move into the room.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was brilliant.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, kid seven, look at him go.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was phenomenally fun to watch.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: He's 20, gonna be 21 this October.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: Did he did he kind of follow in your footsteps as far as like military or law or one of those law enforcement community?
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I am he's found his own path, and I kind of encouraged him to not look at the military, and I did it predominantly because, and this is obviously something a lot of people will either agree with or disagree with.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: I advised him to first explore every option available to him given how smart he was, and that depending on the administration in office when you serve, you may well end up being deployed for reasons you don't agree with, and you have no bloody choice.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: You are going whether you like it or not.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted him to sort of have a very overarching uh appreciation of how quickly things can go south.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: And if you agree with a person in power deploying you, that's one thing.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's very different to be deployed into a an overseas engagement that you don't agree with and still have to do the job.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so his path is going to be very different.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's uh I'm looking around to make sure he's not within earshot.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: So he's currently the assistant chief for the UNC EMS team at uh UNC Chapel Hill, and he'll be chief next year.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: So he's going a very different path.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I told him, you can go shoot every weekend.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'll take you as often as you want to go, and we'll put you in classes so you get some of the benefits without necessarily having any of the downside.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: I know it may be controversial, but that was, you know, that was our decision early on.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it's a perspective that people sh should consider.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, at at minimum you consider that because that is something, you know, in the military you do have to reconcile with missions that you carried out that you may or may not have agreed with.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's always a that's always a possibility.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: So definitely good advice.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now if he had decided that's the path he wanted to take, I would have supported him wholeheartedly.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: And he's also a fitness freak, so you know he would have ended up pushing and going to something elite, absolutely, undoubtedly.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's just interesting his path and uh you know what I think his opportunities are ahead.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's firearms have always been a part of his life.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: He grew up with them.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I just took him and his best friend to the range for the first time.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: His best friend had never shot very much, has not shot in a while just because schedules, it's always difficult.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm traveling, he's at school, it's it's tough to coordinate.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: But he picked up that pistol and was nailing ball's eyes at you know, five, ten, fifteen, twenty, twenty-five yards and sort of looking all casual about it.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, dude, you shot well.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: You really did.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like riding a bike.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right back on there.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: Very nice.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, one of the last things I think I would recommend for women who are interested in becoming competent at shooting a pistol.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, your pistols being the easier to carry, it's very hard to stick an AR platform down your short leg and uh go out in public.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: But the pistols, like getting competent, is dry fire equipment, stuff that allows you to train at home with as much realism as possible, where you can build your confidence in the safety of your own home.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I think, and I'm I don't do this very often, but I'm gonna just talk briefly and ask you to dry fire training with recoil pistols that run on green gas that are safe to shoot.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: You can have reactive targets to simulators, allow you to choose to train as often as you want to, and then that supplements your range time.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do you and have you had a chance to shoot at home and do some of the dry fire training using some of our gear?
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: I have not, and I need to now because you have me completely sold.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I definitely need to get on that bandwagon.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that would be great.
• 57:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really great tool.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: And when I first got the stuff before going to some of the law enforcement conferences, I was terrible.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I was really rusty.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: I had not shot nearly as much as I thought I had, maybe in my own head.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I shot some of the drills and uh I was like, oh, well, that's atrocious, and we need to improve that.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_00: And but it was amazing to me that after you know a few weeks of doing that, I'm like, ah, it's coming back.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I got it.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: And the recall pistols are run off green gas.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: So there's no projectile.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's you and a laser and a pistol that feels as realistic as possible.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: Recoiling, sight picture disruption, trigger press, everything, all the fundamentals of shooting have got to be implemented, and it's a phenomenal way of doing it.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: So for anyone that's on the fence, or for someone like you hasn't even hasn't tried it yet, I think that laser ammo is gear and being able to train at home as realistically as possible and supplement your lifire training with the equipment is an absolute no-brainer.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: I would love that.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh at the last uh range games that we did, we did uh a drill that they called the man card drill.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I lost my man card, by the way, but but there Hey, in your defense, a lot of people lose their man card drill.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: Just so that for anyone who hasn't heard what that drill is, tell us about that that's a good thing.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, buddy.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I I don't know if I can remember it um exactly how it was, but you're the the first part of the drill, um you are drawing your weapon from your holster and then you're shooting your target.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember how many yards it was, but a specific uh amount of yards, but you have to do it within three seconds.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it was three seconds.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I was uh well beyond that.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just say I doubled that time frame.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and then uh because we had rifle, the second portion of the drill now was uh holster draw to to you you shoot your um sorry, you shoot your target with the pistol, and then you switch over to the rifle, and then that's a given time frame.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, but yeah, that was a disaster on my end.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_01: So having some a system like that would be so beneficial to me just learning how to do those movements in a timely fashion.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because oh man, yeah, I lost lost that man card pretty bad.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of people that lose their man card with that draw.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: And there is a shooting challenge program inside the smokeless range that allows you to set up that thing.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny because at these uh law enforcement conferences, I'll set that up and I will they don't even have to draw from the holster because obviously a lot of them walking around these law enforcement conferences, they're in full gear, right?
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: They got their battle rig on, they're ready to go.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we have them go from either high compressed or low ready, but it's the same drill or uh my version of it, which is two shots center mass on a target 21 yards away.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: And we just program the simulator to take the target out to the man-sized target to 21 yards.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it is rare, very nice, very rare that we ever have someone that makes those two shots.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: They can do it after they've run 30 times through the drill, but then there's very few.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had some SWAT guys step up.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: We had a couple of high speed, low drag former military unit types step up, and they've all failed, right?
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's again, as far as there's one thing for training teaching you how to do a thing better for sure.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: But there's also a component of training, I think, that also shows you where you fall short, where the wheels come off, how quick can you shoot accurately, and then where is that fine line?
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because most of the guys will go through and they're they're missing, they're not getting the second shot off.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: If they get both shots off, they're misses.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: So there's all these different elements that combined, after they run it through 20 or 30 times, they're dialed in.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so you go from horrible misses, I got this, right?
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: And they haven't left the booth.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it so that kind of training, I think, is invaluable for showing you where maybe you're weak and allowing you to practice the weak areas of what you shoot or how you shoot in the privacy of your own homes.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_02: No witnesses.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_02: No witnesses of how many times in one day can I lose my man cart?
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_02: Just racking it up.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_02: Although that was fun.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_02: It was fun to try.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_02: It was fun to try.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then I would love to do it.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: But it is fun to try, and it's yes, just set your ego aside and see where you where it goes wrong.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's valuable information.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you said that.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: If I could just improve my time frame from that, I don't know, six or seven seconds to something a little bit better.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: That that that would also be something that, you know, that would be a motivating factor too.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_01: Just seeing, okay, I have also improved in this area.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have my man card yet, but I'm a little bit faster.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: A little bit faster.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_01: But in case you think about it just for a second.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: So there's so many jokes, and I'm not going there.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: So just set you can set up that challenge so that, okay, let's say at 21 yards in one and a half seconds, you can't make the two shots.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how close do we need to move the target to you so that you can make the shots and then incrementally increase it, right?
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: Keep the time the same, move the target.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, uh at 15 yards I'm gold every time, but at 17 the wheels come off.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant information, right?
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_00: But you can train it and start from wherever.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_00: So if you happen to be a beginner shooter and that happens to be one drill that you you incorporate into your training, maybe you start at five yards, and that's where you learn how to shoot.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because most defensive situations are going to be five yards or less anyway, most likely.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you get competent there and then you start moving out so you know and realistically where you your your speedslash accuracy starts to fall apart.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: Very good.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I love like listening to you build out a training plan because in my mind it works in the fitness side of building out training plans and reaching that goal, but then seeing it on this other side of the spectrum uh is very it's all is amazing because you're it's something that I don't have that knowledge base in, but I understand it and why you're building the plan and and how you're trying to get someone to that in-state goal.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: So very cool.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's helpful to have those goals to work towards and to know that, you know, okay, it goes wrong for me here, but it it is brilliant for me at this distance or at this speed, and having that confidence is really what it's all about.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: So when your children look back at the example you've set, what do you hope that they've learned about strength, service, and just continuing to grow?
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I really hope that um when my boys look back at my life that they they want to see that they had um a mom that was willing to not only empower herself but empower others.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then I hope that that is something that they will do uh within their lives is always serve and try to empower others and and bring them up uh alongside with them.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that's awesome.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for taking the time to share your perspective.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's great to hear from a fellow veteran.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna say I'm an endurance athlete because that isn't true, but fellow shooter, someone that's growing.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_00: I can think of myself as a perpetual student.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like you do too, and your insight is invaluable.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's a great uh teaching tool in and of itself to encourage other women to start sort of getting out maybe their comfort zone and exploring both the fitness and the shooting and maybe doing both simultaneously.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for sharing.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, thank you, Terry.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_00: All right, thanks for tuning in to today's episode.
• 1:05:43
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• 1:05:47
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• 1:05:52
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• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you in the next one.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers.