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Gorgeous Sotheby’s Realtor Bludgeoned Dead in Lux Townhome by Bratty Stepson · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: How does a gorgeous woman turned wife and mother who
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Speaker 2: thence surpasses all the other women and men in her
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Speaker 2: field to rise up the ranks of the real estate
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Speaker 2: battle to win one award after the next after the next,
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Speaker 2: end up bludgeoned dead in her own family's mansion.
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Speaker 3: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Foxination and
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Speaker 2: Series XEM one eleven. First of all, take and listen
0:50
Speaker 2: to our friends at Crime Online and ABC seven.
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Speaker 4: Polease receive a nine to one one call about an
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Speaker 4: assault around six forty six in the evening. The location
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Speaker 4: is an upscale, gated townhouse in Cresskill, New Jersey, shared
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Speaker 4: by a husband and wife. When police arrive at the
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Speaker 4: eight hundred thousand dollars three bedroom townhome, they discover a
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Speaker 4: woman's bloody body. Officers determined she died of blunt force trauma.
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Speaker 5: The nine one one call came in around six forty
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Speaker 5: five yesterday evening. When police arrived at the home on
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Speaker 5: Stonegate Trail, they found the victim already deceased. Officials say
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Speaker 5: the woman died from an apparent blunt force trauma that
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Speaker 5: may have been beaten with a baseball bat.
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Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, just hearing the facts surrounding that, I'm imagining
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Speaker 2: this beautiful home on stone Gate Trail, in a gated community,
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Speaker 2: this nearly million dollar townhome. You know, straight out to
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Speaker 2: Robert Weiss joining me, VP of the New Jersey Division
1:51
Speaker 2: for John Cotter Investigations, former sergeant New York Police. Robert,
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Speaker 2: when you hear something like million dollar townhouse, gated community,
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Speaker 2: stone Gate Trail, you don't really think of the beautiful
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Speaker 2: woman bludgeon dead in her own home.
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Speaker 6: No, you really don't. And you're definitely trying to see
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Speaker 6: how could that possibly happen with the security measures that
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Speaker 6: are normally around these type of properties in that affluent area.
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Speaker 3: Oh, let's talk about it. What do you mean security measures?
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Speaker 2: You mean like a little gate that you have to
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Speaker 2: drive through, and there's a guy sitting back there, and
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Speaker 2: there's the gate arm that goes up and lets you
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Speaker 2: in once you get permission, or maybe it has a
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Speaker 2: push dial a keypad.
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Speaker 3: That you have to know the super secret code to.
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Speaker 7: Get in, and then you get in, and then you
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Speaker 7: have to drive down long winding streets surrounded by trees
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Speaker 7: and shrubs and everything looks perfect.
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Speaker 2: You know those neighborhoods where everything's dark, but they have
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Speaker 2: the big homes lit up with lights up on the
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Speaker 2: house and it just is beautiful.
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Speaker 3: Is that what you're talking about?
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Speaker 6: That's what I'm talking about. The communities up there are
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Speaker 6: fully prepared for intruders and things like that, as far
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Speaker 6: as our cameras that are mounted throughout the properties, the
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Speaker 6: gateshall of you can't gain access to the property without
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Speaker 6: being invited on a list.
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Speaker 3: Okay, how does that work? Invited or on a list?
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Speaker 6: Well, a lot of the buildings will have a guard
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Speaker 6: station that is posted and the guard would have to
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Speaker 6: notify the resident that someone is requesting to enter the
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Speaker 6: area if their name is not on a list. A
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Speaker 6: lot of the places that the tenant can put your
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Speaker 6: name on the list so that you can have easy
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Speaker 6: access with gaining to the property.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really curious, guys.
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Speaker 2: I've got an all star panel and I'm going to
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Speaker 2: get to every single person because each one is intimately familiar.
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Speaker 3: With this murder case. But Robert Weiss is with me.
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Speaker 2: Why is a VP Jersey Division, John Cutter Investigations and
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Speaker 2: significantly former sergeant with Newark Police.
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Speaker 3: And you'll see why that's critical right now.
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Speaker 2: You know, one thing I've always been curious about Robert
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Speaker 2: Weiss is people that will put this big, beautiful gate.
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Speaker 3: Like it may be stone or it may be brick
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Speaker 3: or wrought.
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Speaker 2: Iron, but on either side of it you can just
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Speaker 2: walk around it.
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Speaker 3: So I'm always curious.
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Speaker 2: I guess having a gate like that would stop someone
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Speaker 2: having easy access in a vehicle to just go in
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Speaker 2: and load up and leave in the vehicle with all
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Speaker 2: the stuff.
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Speaker 3: You know, like in home alone.
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Speaker 2: If you've got that gate, you'd have to drive across
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Speaker 2: the front yard or maybe go over a ditch. But
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Speaker 2: if you were going into bludgeon this mom, this is
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Speaker 2: not just you know, an ordinary mom like you know
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Speaker 2: me and Jackie here. This is a woman that had
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Speaker 2: won all sorts of so to be international realty awards, just.
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Speaker 3: Really at the top of her game.
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Speaker 2: And if you looked at her, she looks like a
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Speaker 2: fashion model for sure, no question, very sleek looking like
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Speaker 2: I'm like, she's just about to walk down a New
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Speaker 2: York Fashion Week runway.
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Speaker 3: This woman is beautiful. So I'm always curious.
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Speaker 2: While the gates stop at the edge of the driveway,
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Speaker 2: can't you just walk around it.
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Speaker 6: Well, it depends on the property. A lot of them
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Speaker 6: that will still have the wrought iron fences that are
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Speaker 6: that doesn't make it look like it's Fort Knox or
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Speaker 6: something like that. They do have designer fences now that
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Speaker 6: are are secure, and it's pretty much to deter people.
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Speaker 6: I remember before the armed companies are really were big.
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Speaker 6: People would put a sign out in front that they
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Speaker 6: have a security at the house, even though they didn't
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Speaker 6: have it. It's like a determinate for the criminals. So
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Speaker 6: the fencing is a deterrent, and the cameras is always
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Speaker 6: always deterrement of the band. Guys want to go somewhere else.
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Speaker 2: Well, I guarantee you this sotha Bee's realtor in that
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Speaker 2: gatea community in Cresville, New Jersey. I guarantee tee you.
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Speaker 2: Robert Wise, they had that town home. It's a beautiful,
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Speaker 2: solid brick townhome, tall, gorgeous, surrounded by trees. You know,
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Speaker 2: they had it tricked out out the ying yang with security.
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Speaker 3: Guys.
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Speaker 2: How did this woman and she's gorgeous, she's accomplished, she's everything,
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Speaker 2: end up bludgeon dead in her own home in a
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Speaker 2: gated community where you have to get through security, surrounded
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Speaker 2: by fences. You know, she's got the whole place tricked out.
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Speaker 2: She and her husband are family, so how did this happen?
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Speaker 2: But you know what do we know about her? About her?
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Speaker 2: Because when you don't know where to go, you go
7:08
Speaker 2: back to your victim. Take a listen to our friends
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Speaker 2: at crime Online.
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Speaker 8: John Senior and Irma Daniels were married in twenty eleven.
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Speaker 8: John Daniels Senior is the managing partner of the family
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Speaker 8: law firm Daniels and Daniels, a practice nearly a century old.
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Speaker 8: IRMA Daniels has become a success in real estate, celebrating
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Speaker 8: a number of professional milestones this year, not the least
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Speaker 8: of which was being named a Realtor Associate with Prominent
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Speaker 8: Properties of Softbey's Internation Reality in Englewood Cliffs. IRMA Daniels
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Speaker 8: also received the prestigious New Jersey realtor a Silver Circle
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Speaker 8: of Excellent Sales Award, an achievement IRMA Daniels had been
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Speaker 8: working forward for several years, Wow and More.
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Speaker 4: Irma Daniels is sharing her celebration of achievement in real
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Speaker 4: estate on social media. After the Silver Circle of Excellent
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Speaker 4: Sales award. Irma Daniels posted on Facebook, I finally did it.
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Speaker 4: After seven years in the real estate industry, I finally
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Speaker 4: received this distinguished award. Enjoying the fruits of hard work
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Speaker 4: in the USA. Irma Daniels also took time to reflect
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Speaker 4: on where she had recently been on a trip back
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Speaker 4: to her home country on social media. Coupled with the
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Speaker 4: beautiful scenic footage of her homeland, she wrote, going back
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Speaker 4: to my roots, My beautiful motherland with breathtaking Caucasian mountains,
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Speaker 4: ancient culture, heartbreaking history, and graceful and noble people proud
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Speaker 4: of being Circassian.
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Speaker 3: Joining me right now is a special guest.
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Speaker 2: It's Karen Listener, an investigative reporter with Berken County Patch
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Speaker 2: dot Com. Karen, thanks for being with us. So this
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Speaker 2: woman is so impressive to me. So she immigrates from Russia,
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Speaker 2: and I think that that is where I'm picking up
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Speaker 2: this sleek It's a European look super pretty.
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Speaker 3: She immigrates from Russia.
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Speaker 2: She meets the husband, they get married in twenty eleven.
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Speaker 2: This guy, I guess is quite the catch, right because
9:03
Speaker 2: his family law firm is over one hundred years old.
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Speaker 3: Wow. And then they have the son, they've got the home.
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Speaker 2: They've got it all right, which makes her bludgeoning death,
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Speaker 2: which is a really brutal way to die.
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Speaker 1: Time stories with me, It's a Greece.
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Speaker 6: With me.
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Speaker 3: He's doctor Tim Gallagher. Guys and Karen, listen.
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Speaker 2: I want you to hear what he's going to say
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Speaker 2: before you give me your answer. Doctor Tim Gallagher is
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Speaker 2: the medical Examiner for the State of Florida. You can
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Speaker 2: find him at pathcaremed dot com. Lecturer University Florida Medical
9:50
Speaker 2: School of Forensic Medicine, and founder of the International Forensic
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Speaker 2: Medicine Death Investigation Conference, Dr G. There's a limited ways,
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Speaker 2: a limited number of ways to die.
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Speaker 3: Bludgeoning.
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Speaker 2: A bludgeoning death is a particularly violent, gruesome death, and
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Speaker 2: it totally destroys, typically the victim's face and head. Now,
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Speaker 2: don't worry, We're bringing on a renowned psychiatrists to follow
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Speaker 2: up on what that means emotionally and mentally. But doctor Gallagher,
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Speaker 2: how often do you see a bludgeoning death as opposed
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Speaker 2: to a shooting death, a stabbing, somebody gets run over?
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Speaker 2: How often do you see a bludgeoning death on a lady?
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Speaker 9: Well, we don't really get to see that too often, Nancy,
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Speaker 9: It's a very rare opportunity. You know that one will
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Speaker 9: come to the medical examiner's office, and for a lot
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Speaker 9: of reasons, you know, a bludgeoning death, the a sale
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Speaker 9: and tastic to get very close to the victim. You know,
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Speaker 9: this is not someone you can shoot from across the
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Speaker 9: parking lot, you know, in an anonymous way. You know,
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Speaker 9: so the assailant has to know the victim, the victim
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Speaker 9: has to allow the assailant to get near them, and
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Speaker 9: the weapon used is generally something that's very heavy and
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Speaker 9: that does a lot of damage. You know, in the
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Speaker 9: first couple of strikes. You know, their intent is to
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Speaker 9: render the victim incapacitated or even kill them within the
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Speaker 9: first two or three blows. So we do find a
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Speaker 9: lot of skull fracture, We do find a lot of
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Speaker 9: brain damage, brain swelling, concussions and death, you know, because
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Speaker 9: of the blunt force trauma. But not very common and
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Speaker 9: for the reasons that we mentioned, it's generally not an
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Speaker 9: anonymous type of an assault.
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Speaker 2: So I'm taking it doctor Tim Gallagher, that you differentiate
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Speaker 2: between a bludgeoning death and a beating death.
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Speaker 9: Typically a beating a beating death would be an assault
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Speaker 9: with somebody's fist, as in a fistfight, but a bludgeoning
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Speaker 9: would require an instrument of some type, a metal pipe,
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Speaker 9: a rock, or a very hard object that's heavy, so
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Speaker 9: that would be more of a bludgeting as opposed to
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Speaker 9: a beating.
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Speaker 2: Doctor Angel Arnold joining me. We're now a psychiatrist out
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Speaker 2: of the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her Angel Arnold
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Speaker 2: MD dot com. Doctor Angie, thanks for being with us.
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Speaker 2: I'm not sure I agree with one thing Gallagher said
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Speaker 2: that you have to let the person get close to you,
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Speaker 2: because I've seen bludgeonings where the victim is cracked in
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Speaker 2: the head from behind.
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Speaker 3: But I guess generally speaking, he's right.
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Speaker 2: You know, we lawyers, Brad Micklin, we learned not to
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Speaker 2: argue with the medical examiner unless we really have to,
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Speaker 2: because you know, unless you've got a jd A and
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Speaker 2: an MD, they're gonna win, and that's really embarrassing in
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Speaker 2: front of a jury.
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Speaker 3: Would you agree with that, Brad Macklin.
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Speaker 10: I would agree, Harley Nancy.
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Speaker 6: The first I learned in.
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Speaker 10: Law school was a good learn not to argue.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, just let the medical examiner say whatever they want
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Speaker 2: to and then when they leave the court room and
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Speaker 2: get in their car and drive away, then you can
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Speaker 2: argue against what they said in your closing statement. But
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Speaker 2: forget it on cross I mean, you basically have to
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Speaker 2: have the medical examiner lying on the courthouse steps naked
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Speaker 2: with a big fat doobie hanging out of their mouth
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Speaker 2: and a bottle of booze in their hand for a
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Speaker 2: jury not to love a doctor. They love doctors, and
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Speaker 2: it's really hard to cross examine a medical doctor, even
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Speaker 2: if you know what you're talking about. So I take
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Speaker 2: all that back, doctor Gallagher. You're absolutely right in every way.
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Speaker 6: You've described my Friday nights.
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Speaker 3: Yes, go ahead, doctor Angie.
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Speaker 2: I want to talk about this bludgeting aspect because I'm
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Speaker 2: looking at her right now and she has this very
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Speaker 2: delicate nose and jawline, her lips are perfect, and it
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Speaker 2: all looks natural. I might add, she looks like the
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Speaker 2: height of sophistication. And I'm just thinking about the mental
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Speaker 2: leap you have to take to let's just say, a
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Speaker 2: bat to get a Louisville slugger and hit this lady
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Speaker 2: in the face and crackers skull wide open.
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Speaker 3: Who does that? What frame of mind would it take.
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Speaker 2: It's like Gallagher said, excuse me, doctor Gallagher. It's not
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Speaker 2: like you're taking a shot across a bar, or you're
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Speaker 2: just in a haze and you're angry and you run
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Speaker 2: somebody over. This is I mean, her face looks like
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Speaker 2: delicate porcelain.
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Speaker 11: So, Nancy, what you're describing as a very personal crime.
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Speaker 11: And I'm sure whoever did this did get very close
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Speaker 11: to her. And there's either there is either a hatred.
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Speaker 11: Whoever killed her hated her so it was personal, or
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Speaker 11: they could have had some sort of desire for her,
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Speaker 11: for example, a sexual desire that they could not that
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Speaker 11: they couldn't make happen because she's a married woman.
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Speaker 2: So rage, yes, you know another time I see that,
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Speaker 2: And again I'm just a JD. You're the psychiatrist and
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Speaker 2: MD is with multiple stabbing. Think about Jody Arius just enraged.
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Speaker 2: She had been having a marathon sex session with her
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Speaker 2: boyfriend Travis Adam Xander and at the end of the
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Speaker 2: day he still wentn't back out of his date taking
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Speaker 2: another lady to can kun. I believe it was, and
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Speaker 2: she was absolutely enraged stabbed him.
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Speaker 3: It's confusing.
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Speaker 2: Between twenty eight, twenty nine and thirty times because the
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Speaker 2: stab wounds began to overlap, and then caps them in
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Speaker 2: the head, shoots him in the head and leaves them
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Speaker 2: to decomposing a shower. That's rage, and you know the
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Speaker 2: frenzy of stabbing, And I'm getting that same feeling about bludgeoning.
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Speaker 2: Joining right now investigator reporter out of Burken County with
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Speaker 2: Patch dot Com, Karen Listener.
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Speaker 3: What more do we know about Irma Daniels.
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Speaker 12: We know that she was a successful woman. She was
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Speaker 12: an immigrant and you could see by she posted on
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Speaker 12: social media just hours before she was killed about how
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Speaker 12: proud she how she had taken a recent trip back
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Speaker 12: to her homeland, and the way she writes in her post,
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Speaker 12: she was a very intelligent woman. There's it conveyed a
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Speaker 12: lot of passion.
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Speaker 2: She studied finance and economics at Financial University under the
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Speaker 2: government of the Russian Federation. Right she had an MBA
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Speaker 2: in marketing strategies from the Moscow Business School. She of
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Speaker 2: course married the husband John Daniels, managing partner in the Gutenberg,
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Speaker 2: New Jersey based law firm Daniels and Daniels. I know that,
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Speaker 2: and she worked her way from being an immigrant to
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Speaker 2: this top spot in Sothebe's. And when I say Sotha Bee's,
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Speaker 2: it's all about luxury real estate, luxury homes all around
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Speaker 2: the world with a global reach. What more do we
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Speaker 2: know about the death itself?
17:28
Speaker 3: To Brad M.
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Speaker 2: Micklin joining us, lead attorney Managing member with the Micklin
17:34
Speaker 2: Law Group, Brad, thank.
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Speaker 3: You for being with us.
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Speaker 2: Of course, when you come upon a scene like this,
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Speaker 2: I'm sure the first thing cops are going to look
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Speaker 2: at is has there been a b and e, a
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Speaker 2: breaking and entering?
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Speaker 3: Is anything missing? Was she raped? Is she clothed?
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Speaker 2: What more do you believe the cops is going to
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Speaker 2: look for the moment they come into that luxury town home.
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Speaker 6: I think there's a.
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Speaker 10: Lot that you have to look for when you get
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Speaker 10: into this because, as you mentioned in the reports. I mentioned,
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Speaker 10: this was a largely affluent area. Burton County is largely
18:07
Speaker 10: considered a more affluent county. So you're going to look
18:10
Speaker 10: to see was the house in this array, where the
18:14
Speaker 10: grounds of this array is, or anything that was relocated
18:18
Speaker 10: or left at the scene. You want to see their security,
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Speaker 10: if it was tamper if there's anybody maybe even assisted,
18:24
Speaker 10: whether part of the community or outside of the community.
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Speaker 10: So there's been so little release about this case that
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Speaker 10: there's just so many different directions of Yeah, I.
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Speaker 2: Guess you'd want to look for surveillance cameras not just
18:35
Speaker 2: in the home, but at the entry at that gatehouse. Guys,
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Speaker 2: not only did she seem perfect, her whole family saying perfect.
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Speaker 3: Take a listen to our friend Dave.
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Speaker 8: Mack As the son of a prominent New Jersey attorney,
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Speaker 8: John Daniels Junior graduation from Bergen Catholic High School in
18:53
Speaker 8: twenty eleven mark the beginning of an academic journey. He
18:56
Speaker 8: was a Seaton Hall undergrad in diplomacy and International la Relations.
19:00
Speaker 8: He worked as a legal assistant at the family law
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Speaker 8: firm Daniels and Daniels for two years from twenty eighteen
19:05
Speaker 8: to twenty twenty, and according to his LinkedIn profile, John
19:09
Speaker 8: Daniels Junior received an NBA from the Boston College Carol
19:13
Speaker 8: School of Management in May of twenty twenty two.
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Speaker 2: So not only she achieving, her husband achieving, but her
19:20
Speaker 2: step son that she's been raising since he was a
19:23
Speaker 2: little boy is also achieving.
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Speaker 3: Let's go back to the scene. What can we tell?
19:30
Speaker 2: How was there an entry gained and who would have
19:35
Speaker 2: the mental capacity to perform a murder like this.
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Speaker 3: Joining me right now.
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Speaker 2: Is specialist Kelsey McKay, former prosecutor, victims rights lawyer and
19:44
Speaker 2: founder of McKay Training and Consulting and Respond Against Violence.
19:49
Speaker 3: Kelsey, thank you for being with us. You know, when I.
19:52
Speaker 2: Was talking to doctor Gallagher about the difference between beating
19:56
Speaker 2: and bludgeoning. Typically, in for instance, domestic violence cases, we
20:00
Speaker 2: will see beatings with the fists, but this case is
20:04
Speaker 2: nothing like this. There was obviously a blunt object used, absolutely.
20:09
Speaker 13: And that is, as doctor Gallagher describes, much less common
20:14
Speaker 13: than things like a shooting with a firearm and some
20:17
Speaker 13: type of other injury. And so one of the things
20:20
Speaker 13: you mentioned, Nancy, to circle back to.
20:22
Speaker 11: Is the role that who and how do we.
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Speaker 13: Identify not only the suspects, but the motives behind the
20:27
Speaker 13: crime and so is it robbery. One important thing I
20:30
Speaker 13: would always begin an investigation like this is to determine
20:34
Speaker 13: the identity. And what we do know is a woman
20:37
Speaker 13: is most likely to be killed by someone she knows,
20:40
Speaker 13: and so it's important that although you can look for
20:42
Speaker 13: signs that there might be missing items, no security data
20:46
Speaker 13: is ever going to keep out the most dangerous people
20:48
Speaker 13: in a woman's life, which is family members.
20:50
Speaker 3: You're so right about that.
20:52
Speaker 2: Lovers exes family members, It goes on and to doctor
20:57
Speaker 2: Tim Gallagher joining us out of Florida.
21:00
Speaker 3: When you look at a body.
21:01
Speaker 2: For instance, this woman Irma Irma Daniels, how can you
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Speaker 2: tell she was beaten with a blunt object as opposed
21:09
Speaker 2: to beaten with fists.
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Speaker 9: Well, typically it's not an easy thing to do. We
21:15
Speaker 9: always look for a patterned impression on the body. If
21:20
Speaker 9: the person is beaten with a blunt object that is elongated,
21:24
Speaker 9: such as a metal pipe, a baseball bat, or something
21:26
Speaker 9: of that nature, that leaves a very distinct impression on
21:31
Speaker 9: the body, and something that we call tram tracking. It's
21:35
Speaker 9: basically two lines, you know, and underneath those lines on
21:39
Speaker 9: the skin would be where the damage is, the broken bones,
21:43
Speaker 9: the bleeding, the ruptured organs, So that would indicate a
21:48
Speaker 9: elongated object. When someone is beaten with fists, typically, you know,
21:53
Speaker 9: we see the injuries are more rounded. Sometimes we see
21:56
Speaker 9: the knuckle impressions, and on some cases we actually see
22:02
Speaker 9: an impression of a ring or jewelry that the assailant
22:06
Speaker 9: was wearing on their hands when they were striking the victim.
22:09
Speaker 9: So it's very important that we paid careful attention to
22:14
Speaker 9: each and every injury because each injury can give us
22:16
Speaker 9: a clue as to what was used and how we
22:19
Speaker 9: can help the investigation develop a object you know that
22:25
Speaker 9: was used in the crime.
22:26
Speaker 3: Take a listen to our friends at crime online.
22:28
Speaker 4: An urgent manhunt is launched for the suspect who flood
22:31
Speaker 4: the scene. Police say the victim, Irma Daniels, was bludgeoned
22:34
Speaker 4: with a baseball bat. Neighbors tell police in the past
22:37
Speaker 4: few days a man had been seen pacing in front
22:39
Speaker 4: of the home.
22:40
Speaker 2: So here we see that the murder weapon has been
22:43
Speaker 2: identified as a baseball that I had to think back
22:47
Speaker 2: on a case where a baseball bat was used in
22:50
Speaker 2: a murder.
22:51
Speaker 3: Listen to this from our friends at forty eight hours.
22:53
Speaker 4: He's leading all over and I may have killed him.
22:56
Speaker 10: What's he drinking? Yes, he had been drinking.
22:58
Speaker 2: During the course of the day.
23:00
Speaker 7: My partner's discussion after the amulets in the ast while
23:03
Speaker 7: I get the information.
23:04
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, are you right with him now?
23:07
Speaker 12: I am?
23:07
Speaker 11: How does he how old is he?
23:11
Speaker 14: Thirty nine?
23:14
Speaker 6: All right?
23:15
Speaker 10: Is he conscious at all?
23:16
Speaker 12: No?
23:18
Speaker 10: Is he breathing, Dan, Phil all right, tell me what happened.
23:22
Speaker 10: Did you hit him in the head or.
23:23
Speaker 12: Hit him in the head with what with a baseball bat?
23:26
Speaker 6: With a baseball bat?
23:28
Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am, you are hearing sound of a nine one
23:31
Speaker 2: one call where a dad and his daughter has beaten
23:39
Speaker 2: the victim dead. That victim the daughter's husband, Jason Corbett. Now,
23:46
Speaker 2: isn't it true, doctor Gallagher, that when you look at
23:49
Speaker 2: the victim's body, you can actually see as you were
23:52
Speaker 2: talking about, you can see rings and watches that leave
23:55
Speaker 2: an impression when someone is hit. You can see the
23:58
Speaker 2: elongated mark of the weapon. And I'm thinking back to
24:03
Speaker 2: an arson case I tried, and you may think, wow,
24:06
Speaker 2: what does an arsen case have to do with this.
24:08
Speaker 3: The victim didn't die burning of the fire.
24:12
Speaker 2: She was beaten in the head and there was a
24:16
Speaker 2: clear mark that I later showed to the jury of
24:19
Speaker 2: an long elongated bruise and indentation.
24:24
Speaker 3: On her scalp.
24:25
Speaker 2: So that's what started her demise, not smoke inhalation. So
24:33
Speaker 2: it's very distinct. Would you agree, doctor Gallagher?
24:37
Speaker 6: It is true.
24:38
Speaker 9: Typically you will find in the assault with a baseball
24:42
Speaker 9: bat that you will find two lines that outline where
24:47
Speaker 9: the impact was. And a baseball bat has a very
24:51
Speaker 9: distinct pattern because it's spinner at the bottom and wider
24:55
Speaker 9: at the top. So those two lines on the body
24:57
Speaker 9: where the bat made the impact would be diverging as
25:02
Speaker 9: it goes upward. So often, if the bat is a
25:06
Speaker 9: wooden bat, it can also leave the impression of the wood.
25:10
Speaker 9: It could leave the impression of the label that is
25:13
Speaker 9: stamped on the bat, and it'll leave that impression on
25:16
Speaker 9: the skin. And we have different types of light sources
25:20
Speaker 9: that we can use that would highlight those areas and
25:25
Speaker 9: call that object into question it or call that or
25:28
Speaker 9: certified that that object was the one that was used.
25:30
Speaker 9: You know, in the commission of the crime.
25:32
Speaker 2: The family is devastated with the mom bludgeon Dad in
25:36
Speaker 2: the home, a home they thought would never be penetrated.
25:40
Speaker 2: There are no leads, so cops began looking, just as
25:45
Speaker 2: Kelsey McKay pointed out, at those closest to her.
25:48
Speaker 3: Listen to our friends at crime Online.
25:51
Speaker 8: John Daniels Junior list his occupation as an investment banker
25:54
Speaker 8: on his LinkedIn profile, but the last known job he
25:57
Speaker 8: had was at his father's law firm as a legal
25:59
Speaker 8: assistant that ended in twenty twenty. Before that, Junior worked
26:02
Speaker 8: for a year as a marketing manager with benzel Bush Motorcar.
26:06
Speaker 8: The Daily Mail reports Daniels Junior has apparently been unemployed
26:09
Speaker 8: for the last three years and hasn't worked since leaving
26:11
Speaker 8: his father's law firm in twenty twenty. The Daily Mail
26:14
Speaker 8: reports that Daniels junior social media account show a lot
26:17
Speaker 8: of sureless selfies and lavish vacations, but that the thirty
26:20
Speaker 8: year old is single and unemployed.
26:22
Speaker 2: Back to doctor Angela Arnold, doctor Angie, I'm looking right.
26:26
Speaker 2: As his profile, he lists himself as an investment banker.
26:31
Speaker 2: I mean investment bankers do big deals all over the world,
26:36
Speaker 2: not post shirtless selfies and lavish vacations when they're unemployed
26:40
Speaker 2: and living at home at age thirty.
26:42
Speaker 11: Yeah, it sounds like he wishes he was an investment banker.
26:45
Speaker 11: That's his dream wish, isn't it. So he's putting that
26:48
Speaker 11: out there, Nancy, because to me, all of this says
26:52
Speaker 11: that he is very insecure about himself. His father has
26:56
Speaker 11: provided a provenance of excellent education for him, and this
27:01
Speaker 11: guy has not been able to live up to what
27:03
Speaker 11: his father pays.
27:04
Speaker 3: The way for him.
27:06
Speaker 11: So now he's a loser at thirty years old, living
27:09
Speaker 11: at home in his parents' base.
27:10
Speaker 2: Boy, you're not judging at all, are you, Doctor Angie.
27:15
Speaker 3: You are the reason, Doctor Angie.
27:16
Speaker 2: And my son the other day said Mom, I promise
27:18
Speaker 2: you I will not be thirty one eleven in the basement.
27:20
Speaker 3: Good was that Kelsey McKay jumping in?
27:22
Speaker 13: Yeah, you know what she brings up is such a
27:24
Speaker 13: great point because one of the dynamics for circumstances that
27:28
Speaker 13: appears to have preceded this homicide, it sounds like within
27:32
Speaker 13: days is her posting of her recent success, and so
27:36
Speaker 13: in sharp contrast to the step son, she not only
27:40
Speaker 13: was experiencing recent success, but also seems to be substantial success,
27:45
Speaker 13: which is as we can see with his unemployment and
27:49
Speaker 13: lack of financial earning power, it appears despite his appearance
27:54
Speaker 13: that he gives off to the world. I think that
27:56
Speaker 13: might be a significant circumstance to consider.
27:58
Speaker 2: Of course, Brad and Macklin'll back me up on this.
28:01
Speaker 2: I believe he will that being a deadbeat son living
28:05
Speaker 2: at home, and you notice the last job he had
28:09
Speaker 2: Brad Micklin was as a legal assistant in his father's
28:14
Speaker 2: law firm back in twenty twenty three years ago.
28:18
Speaker 3: Nepotism.
28:18
Speaker 2: Nepotism, So the dad throws him a bone and gives
28:23
Speaker 2: them a job at the law firm as an assistant.
28:26
Speaker 2: But it's been over three years since he did that.
28:29
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, I hate to say this, so I
28:30
Speaker 10: see it a lot with my practice over the last twenty.
28:34
Speaker 3: I guess I'm all you're going to say with my son. Okay,
28:36
Speaker 3: go ahead, no, no, no.
28:38
Speaker 10: Twenty three years ago, when people had financial troubles, they
28:42
Speaker 10: dealt with it, you know, they moved in with a friend,
28:43
Speaker 10: or they got a small apartment.
28:45
Speaker 6: Now, more and more.
28:46
Speaker 10: Often I see people that are moving home with their parents.
28:49
Speaker 10: They're letting their parents pay for their legal fees and
28:52
Speaker 10: their education, their child support, with a little regard for
28:56
Speaker 10: the fact that it's usually their retirement that is being
28:58
Speaker 10: squandered for these and sounds just like that's exactly what
29:02
Speaker 10: he was doing, living off his father, got an education
29:04
Speaker 10: from his father, worked for his father, and then he
29:08
Speaker 10: posted selfies without a shirt on to promote himself in
29:11
Speaker 10: an adverse negative waste.
29:12
Speaker 2: Of course, a mooch does not a murderer make What
29:16
Speaker 2: else do we know beside the sun. Other than he's unemployed,
29:19
Speaker 2: living at home and lying about his image online.
29:23
Speaker 3: Take a listen to Dave Mac.
29:24
Speaker 8: John Daniels Junior had been acting strangely, according to a neighbor.
29:28
Speaker 8: The New York Post quoted a neighbor that did not
29:30
Speaker 8: want to be identified that seid of John Daniels Junior quote.
29:33
Speaker 8: He was doing odds, sprinting from one driveway to the
29:36
Speaker 8: next driveway, not sprinting for exercise. He wouldn't make eye contact.
29:41
Speaker 8: One day, I saw him wandering around in front of
29:43
Speaker 8: someone else's house pacing. It was like circling with an
29:46
Speaker 8: angry and upset look on his face. And I thought,
29:49
Speaker 8: somebody's going to call the police on this guy.
30:06
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.
30:09
Speaker 2: Okay, you know what, I've got to go to Robert
30:10
Speaker 2: Weiss on this, VP, New Jersey Division for John Cutter Investigations,
30:16
Speaker 2: former sergeant for Newark Police. That's where this goes down.
30:21
Speaker 2: Robert again, thank you for being with us. You know,
30:23
Speaker 2: if it walks like a duck, it quacks like a duck,
30:27
Speaker 2: it looks like a duck.
30:29
Speaker 3: It's a duck.
30:30
Speaker 2: Now I said it in a different way, and I
30:34
Speaker 2: would tell Jerry's listen, look at all the possibilities, and
30:37
Speaker 2: I guarantee you the nut did it. So why is
30:42
Speaker 2: this guy sprinting back and forth from mailbox to mailbox,
30:47
Speaker 2: refusing to make eye contact just before the mom is killed.
30:52
Speaker 6: Well, it appears to me that there's something going on,
30:55
Speaker 6: whether he's intoxicated of some sort, but he's clearly off
31:01
Speaker 6: off the reservoir with the way that he's acting. Uh,
31:05
Speaker 6: he's creating uh, a kind of crazy environment with the neighbors.
31:11
Speaker 6: And it doesn't he doesn't seem like that he cures
31:14
Speaker 6: that he's being watched by his uh, his actions. And
31:18
Speaker 6: when I first took a look at this, when listening
31:21
Speaker 6: with the doctors were saying, with these type of crimes,
31:26
Speaker 6: there's definitely a lot of emotion evolved behind it. There's
31:30
Speaker 6: some really deep emotions that evolved behind it to be
31:33
Speaker 6: able to carry out an act as atrocious as that.
31:37
Speaker 6: And in many cases there when they have a situation
31:41
Speaker 6: like that with the crime, there's a lot of blood
31:44
Speaker 6: splatter and things like that that will get on the
31:47
Speaker 6: perpetrator and these are things that affect him later on.
31:52
Speaker 6: But he's clearly seemed to be showing some sign some
31:55
Speaker 6: type of either drug abuse or mental illness or such.
31:59
Speaker 2: But of course we don't know what he's wearing, because
32:02
Speaker 2: as soon as his mom is found, he goes on
32:05
Speaker 2: the run. That's right, this guy, thirty year old John
32:11
Speaker 2: Daniels Junior, as soon as Irma is found dead in
32:15
Speaker 2: the home, bludgeon dead with a baseball bat. And they
32:18
Speaker 2: came out with that pretty quickly, that there was a
32:20
Speaker 2: baseball bat, which tells me that the weapon was found
32:25
Speaker 2: at the scene. How would they know that immediately after
32:29
Speaker 2: finding her body and he's the only one missing to
32:35
Speaker 2: Brad M Micklin, high profile lawyer joining us out of
32:39
Speaker 2: this jurisdiction in New Jersey, Brad, in many jurisdictions, judges
32:45
Speaker 2: no longer instruct your rs on flight as evidence of guilt. However,
32:51
Speaker 2: the prosecutor can still argue it, and I would argue
32:54
Speaker 2: it in this case till I was blue in the face,
32:57
Speaker 2: your mother is dead in the floor, and you go
33:01
Speaker 2: on the run. I mean, come on, Brad, if you
33:05
Speaker 2: see a state patrol officer pull up behind you on
33:07
Speaker 2: the interstate, you might tap your brakes to slow down,
33:10
Speaker 2: But do you take off at one hundred and ten mph? No?
33:13
Speaker 3: Because you don't have anything to hide, So why is
33:15
Speaker 3: he on the run?
33:16
Speaker 6: I agree to answer.
33:17
Speaker 10: I mean, I personally believe it's a sign of guilt
33:20
Speaker 10: and that an innocent person acted sphere would not run,
33:24
Speaker 10: would not hide. But as you indicated, Manager Assiction s Field,
33:29
Speaker 10: it is just too prejudicial to allow people to draw
33:32
Speaker 10: that conclusion. So we're told not to. But I think
33:34
Speaker 10: it's human nature to believe that it is the case,
33:36
Speaker 10: and I don't think I would do it. Tremendous Sphere
33:40
Speaker 10: or built.
33:40
Speaker 2: Absolutely, guys, take a listen to our friends at crime Online.
33:43
Speaker 4: After a manhunt, John Daniels Junior is taken into custody.
33:47
Speaker 15: Sources tell CBS too that the New Jersey man has
33:50
Speaker 15: been arrested in the beating death of a family member.
33:53
Speaker 15: Police see thebody a forty eight year old Irma Daniels
33:55
Speaker 15: is found last night at a home on Stone Game
33:57
Speaker 15: Trail in crescoll i'th already said. John Daniels Junior is
34:01
Speaker 15: now being charged with the murder. He's accused of hitting
34:04
Speaker 15: the victim in the head with a baseball bat and
34:06
Speaker 15: running from the home. So far, no word on a motive.
34:10
Speaker 4: In his first court appearance, Daniels reportedly broke down and
34:13
Speaker 4: stuttered at times while answering the judge. Reporters in the
34:17
Speaker 4: courtroom say Daniels only spoke yes your honor or no,
34:20
Speaker 4: your honor and answer to the judges questions. Daniels faces
34:24
Speaker 4: a list of charges, including first degree murder, unlawful possession
34:27
Speaker 4: of a weapon in Lyne.
34:28
Speaker 2: To investigators, if in fact, this thirty year old son
34:34
Speaker 2: is guilty bludgeting his stepmom arma dad, he's not by
34:41
Speaker 2: far the first adult child to wreak havoc and murder
34:48
Speaker 2: their parents. Take a listen to our friend's at ABC six.
34:51
Speaker 16: It was a couple's son who grew concerned after he
34:54
Speaker 16: hadn't spoken to his parents in a week. He went
34:56
Speaker 16: to their home, saw a body inside, confronted sister, and
35:00
Speaker 16: then left and called nine one one. The couple's son
35:04
Speaker 16: told authorities he believed that he was texting with his
35:06
Speaker 16: parents all week. Now, authorities believe his sister was using
35:10
Speaker 16: the parent's phone to make the son think that they.
35:13
Speaker 3: Were still alive.
35:14
Speaker 16: Forty three year old Verity Beck charged with murdering her
35:17
Speaker 16: seventy two year old mother and seventy three year old father.
35:21
Speaker 16: This is video of Abington Police transporting the suspect to jail.
35:25
Speaker 16: Her father, Reid and mother Miriam, a former school nurse,
35:29
Speaker 16: were both shot in the head inside their quaint home
35:32
Speaker 16: and the eleven hundred block of Beverly Road. Verity stayed
35:35
Speaker 16: in the home with their bodies for nearly a week.
35:38
Speaker 2: Now, this woman no way can she claim some type
35:42
Speaker 2: of mental defect because she had the cunning to fake
35:45
Speaker 2: out her brother for days and days, pretending that her
35:49
Speaker 2: parents were texting with him when it was her reminiscent
35:53
Speaker 2: of the Gabby Patito case, where the boyfriend the fiance,
35:57
Speaker 2: Brian Laundry, was texting Gabby's family as if he were Gabby,
36:03
Speaker 2: knowing full well he had murdered Gabby and left her
36:05
Speaker 2: body out in dispersed camping all the way across the country.
36:09
Speaker 3: Well, that's not the only one.
36:11
Speaker 2: One case that comes to mind that reminds me of
36:15
Speaker 2: this case in particular is the case of Thomas Gilbert Junior.
36:22
Speaker 2: Born with a silver spoon in his mouth and sitting
36:27
Speaker 2: on a velvet cushion.
36:29
Speaker 3: Take a listen to our friends at ABC thirty year
36:31
Speaker 3: old Thomas Gilbert Junior.
36:33
Speaker 14: He's currently being held without bail after police say he's
36:36
Speaker 14: shot Thomas Gilbert Senior in the head Sunday afternoon inside
36:40
Speaker 14: this Manhattan apartment.
36:42
Speaker 3: I'm still in shock.
36:43
Speaker 14: Ann A Rothschild says she recently dated Gilbert Junior.
36:47
Speaker 3: How did he describe his relationship with his father?
36:49
Speaker 13: Because father was never happy with anything he did.
36:53
Speaker 3: Gilbert Junior was in debt and unemployed.
36:56
Speaker 14: According to detectives, His investor father recently discussed no longer
37:01
Speaker 14: paying his son's rent and planned to cut his weekly
37:03
Speaker 14: allowance by one hundred dollars, reducing it to three hundred dollars.
37:08
Speaker 14: Police have also charged him with twenty one counts of
37:11
Speaker 14: criminal possession of forgery devices because insigned Gilbert Junior's Manhattan apartment.
37:16
Speaker 14: They say they found twenty one blank credit cards and
37:19
Speaker 14: a skimming device used to capture credit card information.
37:23
Speaker 3: Boy, do I need a shrink right now? And with me?
37:25
Speaker 3: Renown psychiatrist doctor Angela Arnold.
37:27
Speaker 2: The guy is thirty years old, just like this guy
37:29
Speaker 2: John Daniels Junior and his shirtless selfies that he's posting
37:33
Speaker 2: online claiming to be an investment banker. This guy is
37:37
Speaker 2: thirty years old and tracking down a woman he dated.
37:43
Speaker 2: The first thing, she said is he told me his
37:47
Speaker 2: father was never happy with him. He could never do
37:50
Speaker 2: anything right, nothing was ever good enough. Seriously, at age thirty,
37:55
Speaker 2: you're steel whining your dad is disappointed in you. While
38:00
Speaker 2: I might add that you're using a skimmer to capture
38:03
Speaker 2: credit card information of unsuspecting people and use their lines
38:07
Speaker 2: of credit and credit.
38:08
Speaker 3: Cards for yourself. I guess he was a stranger from
38:12
Speaker 3: his father.
38:13
Speaker 11: Well, you know, Nancy, to me, that sounds like that
38:16
Speaker 11: person is completely anti social.
38:22
Speaker 2: That took a while for you to actually spit it out.
38:25
Speaker 2: Did you have to think a long time? I mean,
38:27
Speaker 2: if you do your dad or in this case bludgeing
38:30
Speaker 2: your stepmom dad, I guess I even I, who know
38:33
Speaker 2: nothing about psychiatry, could say anti social. I'm looking for
38:37
Speaker 2: something a little bit deeper than that, doctor Ange. I mean,
38:40
Speaker 2: you did go to undergrad medical school and train in psychiatry.
38:45
Speaker 3: Did you not help me out here?
38:47
Speaker 2: You ever heard of Oedipus?
38:49
Speaker 11: Yes, there's all of that going on, but at the beginning, no.
38:54
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no.
38:55
Speaker 2: You are the psychiatrist, all right, you are the expert.
39:00
Speaker 3: Don't just say all that's going on?
39:03
Speaker 15: What are you saying?
39:04
Speaker 3: Woman? What camp? First, let's just talk about Oedipus for
39:08
Speaker 3: a moment. Okay, even I know that, and I just
39:11
Speaker 3: fell off the turnip truck for Pete's sake.
39:13
Speaker 2: When a son hates the mother, it's called an Oedipus complex.
39:18
Speaker 11: Yeah, but he doesn't just hate the mother. He also
39:20
Speaker 11: has sexual desires for the mother, and he cannot make
39:26
Speaker 11: he can't act those out, and so he kills the mother.
39:31
Speaker 11: Sometimes these people also kill the father because the father
39:35
Speaker 11: is blocking them from having their sexual desires met with
39:40
Speaker 11: the mother.
39:41
Speaker 2: Doctor Angie, I don't know if I can't determine whether
39:45
Speaker 2: Irma was clothed or not, but I wonder forget about
39:50
Speaker 2: sex with your mother.
39:53
Speaker 3: Can we talk about money? Did you hear?
39:55
Speaker 2: Thomas Gilbert, his father, who's in his seventies, was thinking
40:00
Speaker 2: about reducing his weekly allowance by one hundred dollars to
40:05
Speaker 2: three hundred dollars a week. He was getting twelve hundred
40:09
Speaker 2: dollars a month, plus.
40:11
Speaker 3: His home was paid for. I think you lived with
40:13
Speaker 3: the parents.
40:14
Speaker 2: I'm not sure about that, but yet the father, a senior,
40:18
Speaker 2: dared to suggest I'm only giving you twelve hundred a month.
40:22
Speaker 2: He shot him in the head. Oh, and I might
40:24
Speaker 2: add before he shot his father in the head. He
40:27
Speaker 2: sent his mother out to go get him a sandwich. Seriously,
40:31
Speaker 2: I mean, did the mother ever say, son, you can
40:33
Speaker 2: do that yourself, or hey, what are those socks doing
40:36
Speaker 2: on the floor?
40:37
Speaker 3: Why are they there? Is that where you're storing your
40:39
Speaker 3: socks now on the floor of the den? What went wrong?
40:45
Speaker 3: Dtr Angie Dancy.
40:47
Speaker 11: These people have come to believe this is a real
40:51
Speaker 11: attack on who they are by the parent if the
40:55
Speaker 11: parent so much as wants to remove some of their
40:58
Speaker 11: money from them, okay, because these kids have never had
41:02
Speaker 11: to work for anything, They've never had to do anything
41:05
Speaker 11: for themselves. So internally it says to this person, I'm
41:11
Speaker 11: not as worthy anymore of your love. If you're going
41:14
Speaker 11: to take some of my funds away from me, then
41:17
Speaker 11: I'm no longer worthy of this. Why are you doing
41:20
Speaker 11: this to me? And it enrages them, okay, And it
41:23
Speaker 11: can be as simple as one hundred dollars a week,
41:27
Speaker 11: but no one has ever taught them that they have
41:30
Speaker 11: to work for anything, so the only people that they
41:33
Speaker 11: have to look to are their parents. It would be
41:36
Speaker 11: like if they were at a job and their boss said,
41:40
Speaker 11: you know what, we're going to cut your pay a
41:41
Speaker 11: little bit because we don't think you're doing as good
41:43
Speaker 11: of a job. That's what they hear. Okay, Nancy, they
41:47
Speaker 11: don't hear what we're all seeing that they're being well
41:50
Speaker 11: taken care of and housed and closed.
41:52
Speaker 2: Doesn't he notice that his stepmom is getting up and
41:56
Speaker 2: going to work every morning. His dad is duking it
42:00
Speaker 2: out as managing partner of a law firm. And that's
42:03
Speaker 2: not easy. You're a managing member of a law firm,
42:06
Speaker 2: Brad Micklin. When you're the manager of a law firm,
42:10
Speaker 2: you have to not only see oversee everybody's cases, but
42:13
Speaker 2: you have to deal with all their petty disagreements. They're jealousies,
42:16
Speaker 2: their raises, their promotions, their benefits, the blaw and the blaw.
42:21
Speaker 3: It's maddening.
42:22
Speaker 2: Did he not notice his parents were working while he's
42:25
Speaker 2: sitting and I'm taking shirtless selfies and posting them.
42:28
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that's what the problem is.
42:30
Speaker 10: I think that many are novel, but many parents they
42:35
Speaker 10: coddled their children, They overfund their children, they over medicate
42:40
Speaker 10: their children if they have the least bit of anxiety.
42:43
Speaker 10: I mean, people need to learn to suffer.
42:47
Speaker 2: Well, you know it sounds to me, Brad Micklin, that
42:49
Speaker 2: you are actually blaming the dead stepmom that she didn't
42:54
Speaker 2: discipline the step son enough.
42:56
Speaker 3: No, okay, I'm glad to hear that.
42:59
Speaker 10: He was graduate high school when she came into the picture.
43:02
Speaker 3: Bren, I thank you.
43:03
Speaker 2: Was twelve when the stepmom Irma comes into the scene.
43:07
Speaker 2: It starts helping raising it. But you know what, aside
43:10
Speaker 2: from that, I notice a trend here where adult children
43:13
Speaker 2: get angry when they're about to lose money from their
43:16
Speaker 2: senior parents. Bringing to mind Joel Guy Junior. Take a
43:22
Speaker 2: listen now our cut ten.
43:24
Speaker 17: Joel and Lisa Guy we're found deceased in their residence.
43:28
Speaker 17: The parents are believed to have been murdered between late
43:30
Speaker 17: Friday night, the twenty fifth and midday on Saturday, the
43:34
Speaker 17: twenty sixth. Both suffered multiple vicious stab wounds as well
43:38
Speaker 17: as dismemberment. Joel Junior was visiting from Louisiana. He arrived
43:43
Speaker 17: in Knoxville on Wednesday the twenty seconds and departed on
43:47
Speaker 17: Sunday the twenty.
43:48
Speaker 3: Seven and more from WATE.
43:51
Speaker 18: Major MacLean describes the scene as horrific, saying remains were
43:55
Speaker 18: disposed of in multiple rooms.
43:57
Speaker 17: Seeing scenes like this, they are very very rare. It's
44:00
Speaker 17: in the one percent pile of homicides in the United.
44:03
Speaker 18: States, and that the Getters have spoken to Guy Junior's sisters,
44:06
Speaker 18: none saying he was acting strangely before the murder.
44:09
Speaker 3: The motive is still unclear.
44:11
Speaker 17: Parents had indicated that they were in the process of
44:14
Speaker 17: encouraging him to offend for himself, and they were going
44:18
Speaker 17: to be cutting off some of his financial support.
44:19
Speaker 2: To Kelsey McKay, former prosecutor, now victims rights lawyer, founder
44:24
Speaker 2: of McKay Training and Consulting, that's what it's all about here,
44:30
Speaker 2: Just like in the case where I just played it,
44:32
Speaker 2: and that Guy Joel guide Junior actually hated his parents
44:37
Speaker 2: so much for cutting him off financially he dismembered them.
44:41
Speaker 2: Same thing here and that stat I was interested in.
44:45
Speaker 2: Less than one percent of all homicides are patricide or
44:50
Speaker 2: killing your parent, be it mother or father. What do
44:54
Speaker 2: you make of this, Kelsey?
44:55
Speaker 13: So a few things. One circling to what doctor Arnold said,
44:57
Speaker 13: I think why we struggled so much these cases when
45:01
Speaker 13: it is entitlement and greed and privilege that is really
45:05
Speaker 13: the driving motive is those are not medical diagnoses. Those
45:07
Speaker 13: are character traits, and so in my experience as a prosecutor,
45:11
Speaker 13: there was a constant need to diagnose away the criminal behavior.
45:15
Speaker 13: And so in this case, seeing the pictures of him
45:18
Speaker 13: and his false appearance of his wealth and his money,
45:22
Speaker 13: I wonder if what's not just behind that is downright
45:25
Speaker 13: greed and entitlement. When it comes to the percentage of cases,
45:29
Speaker 13: the dynamics important, and it's also important to recognize we
45:32
Speaker 13: have a female victim in this case. Murders against women
45:35
Speaker 13: semicides are very different than all other homicides, and sons
45:39
Speaker 13: and step sons. While it's a small proportion, more women
45:42
Speaker 13: are killed by their son or step sons than by
45:44
Speaker 13: a stranger. So it may not be super common when
45:47
Speaker 13: you look at all overall homicides, but when you separate
45:50
Speaker 13: out femicide, it's actually a significant proportion of those cases
45:55
Speaker 13: involve that mother or step mother relationship.
45:57
Speaker 2: Dodor Azel Arnold, renowned psychiatgists joining us sad the Atlanta
46:00
Speaker 2: Jeury stictionan go ahead, doctor.
46:02
Speaker 11: Nancy, this is like she just said, this only involves
46:06
Speaker 11: two percent of all homicides. It's the rarest type of murder.
46:11
Speaker 11: I do want everyone to know though, that these are
46:14
Speaker 11: that these types of murders, which are actually called paracides,
46:18
Speaker 11: are growing. Okay, and this guy sits the bill, Nancy,
46:23
Speaker 11: This guy sits the bill. It's typically committed by an adult,
46:28
Speaker 11: middle class white male with no history of any prior
46:32
Speaker 11: acts between the ages of eighteen and thirty. Uh oh,
46:37
Speaker 11: this guy tells the story of exactly of this type
46:42
Speaker 11: of murder. He has hung himself as far as I'm concerned.
46:47
Speaker 2: We wait as this case heads to trial and justice unfolds.
46:52
Speaker 3: Goodbye, say