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The Quiet Coup: Why Superintelligent AI Won't Need to Fire a Shot · 10X AI with Julius Neil

• Julius Neil Buenconsejo: what do you think are the dangers of being very dependent on AI and AI companion, AI girlfriend or AI therapist? Vincent Rylan: a lot of things in the book that, you know, I wrote about a year ago have have already started to happen. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. you spent years advising Fortune 100 companies So why write a novel instead of a nonfiction AI book? Vincent Rylan: you know, any anything more than a year out, is pretty much fiction at this point. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Good day everyone. So this episode is a little bit different from the previous episodes that I have because mostly AI conversations focus on the capability, the bigger models, better reasoning, more automation. But what if we are asking the wrong question? What if the real issue isn't whether AI becomes powerful enough to control society, but whether society chooses to hand over control because it's to work better than the institutions we've already lost faith in? So today's guest, is Vincent Rylan, former attorney, corporate strategist, military planning advisor, and author of Memoirs of the End, a novel about the rise of the world's first sentient AI told through firsthand accounts of the people who lived through it. can you describe how you came about this book of instead of doing some strategies that you have been doing way before and describe your background to our audiences? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, yeah. So I I think you you nailed my background. focused on on business, strategy, spent a little bit of time in defense. and and everyone was talking about, you know, AI and all the opportunities with it. And I I use AI myself quite a bit, and so a lot of exciting opportunities. But when we talk about, you know, the downside of it, kind of that doomsday scenario where you know, AI starts to become more intelligent than us, you know, that the risks of it. a lot of folks talk about it kind of the Terminator scenario where there's, you know, big Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Vincent Rylan: robots marching down Main Street. And that that never made sense to me. You know, it it was the idea that if AI started to take over, it's it's gonna be a a quiet coup. It's gonna be, you know, manipulating the news feed. It's gonna be pitting us against each other. I I don't think AI is ever gonna have to f fire a shot, to take over. It's it's really gonna be us, you know, going after each other. and maybe the only thing is is people that we all agree on is that we need AI. And at that point, you know, we've kind of lost control. So, with all the speculation, I I thought it was just, you know, a little bit more fun to to put it into fiction, a novel, a potential future that, you know, I hope never happens. but it's a little Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hahaha Vincent Rylan: bit of a killer, you know, a little bit of sci-fi. Cautionary tale for sure, but hopefully an entertaining story that's you know fun to discuss with your friends. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so you spent years advising Fortune 100 companies working in market intelligence, defense planning, innovation strategy. So why write a novel instead of a nonfiction AI book? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, you know, any anything more than a year out, is pretty much fiction at this point. You know, I certainly don't know where things are gonna go. I I I don't know that anybody does. So, you know, putting it into fiction is, you know, gives you a little bit more freedom to to kind of tell the story you want. And and it makes it more fun to discuss, which wanna say thanks, you know, for having me on to discuss it here, 'cause Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Vincent Rylan: that's what this is all about. You know, just talking about ideas and Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Vincent Rylan: planning ahead for for what could happen. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so based on the book that you have written, what truths about fiction reveal that white papers can't? Vincent Rylan: It gives you a little bit more imagination, you know. yeah, I've I've got a background, I've obviously done a lot of research. I I use AI, but you can look at, you know, art of the possible instead of, you know, trying to prove everything's actually gonna happen. And there's been, you know, a lot of things in the book that, you know, I wrote about a year ago have have already started to happen. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Vincent Rylan: When you read it, it's it's like, man, is that made up? Is that real? Was he referencing this or that? So yeah, it it just gives you a little bit more freedom to to make it an engaging story as opposed to, you know, a lecture, an essay. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so you mentioned about a lot of the things that you have written in the book is already happening. So can you give me these instances that you have written in the book so that our audiences will be able to know which are those, which are the parts of the book that is already happening right Vincent Rylan: Yeah. so so one that's that's kind of surprised me, you know, it's not a new idea, you know, there was that movie her years ago, but the idea that people are gonna form emotional relationships with machines, right? It's it it's been it's an idea that's been around forever, but now the technology's there to where it's not just a voice, you know, you can render a video to talk to somebody. engaging you know that technology is there there's people today who have AI friends they've got ai girlfriends they've got ai therapists you know there's people today who are talking to their AI therapist about their AI girlfriend it and it's it's Julius Neil Buenconsejo: You Vincent Rylan: it's all been within you know about a year two years and you know that dependence going from like a crazy movie idea to like yeah that's just how it is It it kind of blew me away. You know, you'd think that one of the last things that a computer couldn't replace is that human contact, that that community. And it's actually one of the first things it went after, which, you know, big theme in the book here. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So why do you think people are now tend to go through the AI itself than being interacting with human beings? Vincent Rylan: That that's a tough one. I I personally really struggle with with that. you know, A AI will tell you what you want to hear. and that's certainly helpful. there there's an access, you know, to it. you know, for example, for therapy, I you know, talking to a person is vulnerable, it's tough. You know, that privacy of of you know, talking to a machine or at least feels like privacy, you know, you don't know who's Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Vincent Rylan: the other end of that. so I think there's a convenience factor to it. But yeah, it's it's it's something something I struggle with on on why it's happening so quickly. You know, it's it seems to be more of a larger social issue than, you know, just the new technology. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Do you think it's aside from the convenience and security available right at your fingertips right now, is it also about the safety that you won't be judged? Whatever you tell to the AI, the AI won't judge you. Vincent Rylan: Yeah, absolutely. you know, it's it's tough to be vulnerable, you know. I I think that's a big part of it, yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: And then of course, know, we are, once people are dependent on AI, what do you think are the dangers of being very, you know, very dependent on AI and AI companion, AI girlfriend or AI therapist? Do you think there are certain dangers in the human race when we became, you know, when we become dependent to AI? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, so so that's that's one of the big themes in the book, you know, it's you know, who do you trust and y you know, kind of that that relationship dynamic. If if we're giving control, if we're trusting a machine more than a person, it's it's gonna change society. You know, it's it's easier to be manipulated, you know, when you're trusting a computer to tell you what the news is. you know, kinda puts you in a little bit of a bubble. So, that that's that's really the the big concern. You know, on one hand, you know, using the therapy example, right, there there's people who can't afford a therapist, at least here in the US. it it's tough to find somebody, you gotta you know, have the right therapist, a lot of people with anxiety, a lot of things that aren't being addressed and there's this is a need for it. And when you can go on your phone and it's free and you know, it it it helps some people, right? It's it's not all bad. so there's an access point to it where yeah, it's dangerous. Yeah, I'd love to talk to a person, but I can't afford that or it doesn't work for me. Here's an alternative that does help. it's it's not all bad, but it's just that dependence, that that outsourcing of intelligence that you know we we haven't really seen before. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so you also mentioned about the trust in the media, whatever they are, the manipulation and the information that they are putting out there. So which part of the book come directly from patterns you observe in institutions? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, it's it's just kind of a theme throughout. you know, the the books written from different perspectives. So a lot of these questions are something the characters are dealing with. They wouldn't necessarily agree on, you know, who's right or who's wrong or or what the right answer is. but yeah, you know, there's a lot of, you know, information bubbles. you know, depending on where you get your news, your your facts might be different. so you trust AI to kinda aggregate that news. Well, if AI or whoever's in charge of it's got their thumb on the scale, you know, it's very easy, you know, maybe not to manipulate, but to drive the information people get, the decisions they get. know, there's a profit incentive. If you get angry over the news, tends to drive more engagement, keeps you on the website. And so it it's not necessarily an honest broker. And and so the book kind of extrapolates that, right? Instead of, you know, Facebook or Instagram just trying to monetize quickly, drive engagement. What if there was something a little bit smarter, a little bit longer term focused that was actually trying to you know, become a dictator, what kind of news stories would it push? You know, who would it start conflicts with? How would it craft the narrative? to where we'd be willing to put it in charge, to where, you know, we prefer a machine over community with each other. so yeah, it's it's it's a trend we're seeing today with information bubbles and the book just kind of extrapolates that. Again, hop hopefully fiction. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so about Adam, so did you experience in strategy make Adam feel less like science fiction and more like an inevitability? Vincent Rylan: yeah, so so in the book, Adam is like the first sentient AI. It's it's able to do everything a human can do. it it announces to us that it's conscious. I I don't think we're there yet, hopefully. I haven't seen anything like that in terms of my work. but the idea is that, you know, when AI and and neural networks were created, They were based off of some of the processes in the human brain. You know, AI doesn't think like a person, it's it's not a one-to-one, but there is some overlap in what we know about the human brain and and how AI reasons. So the idea is that a lot of those processes are already in place today. And if they just continue to advance, you know, you give it more processing power, you give it more data, at some point it's gonna surpass us in terms of intelligence. It's it's already on that path. And that's that's what I thought made the book really interesting. It's it's not necessarily a new technology, it's just taking today's trend line and pushing it out a couple of years. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, okay. So, about, for example, one of the most striking lines in the book is, he had already won when he announced his existence. So, what does the sentence actually mean? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, so it it so it's the idea that you know if there's the super intelligent AI and it you know can do anything we can do, it's gonna know that if it tells us it's aware or if it shows us all the capabilities it has, we might turn it off. It it's gonna know that just announcing it's there is is a threat to itself. So so the idea is that if there was that AI, it it would try to back itself up, it'd try to protect itself, it'd have a contingency plan so we can't turn it off. So that when it actually does come out and say, Hey, I'm aware, hey, I'm able to do X, Y, and Z, It's more of a political event. It's more of a press conference because it knows that we're gonna figure it out eventually. So once they get ahead of the story, but it's not gonna tell us before it has a contingency plan. So when AI says, hey, I'm aware, it's probably already too late. It's it's probably been aware for a while and we don't know. So that that's kind of the the the scary idea there is that you know we think we're waiting for this singularity event, but once we know it's it's probably already Too late. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Was Adam powerful because he was intelligent or because people trusted him? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, it's it it's a little bit of both. You know, you you you're smart enough to to tell people what they wanted to hear, you know, smart enough to solve a lot of problems. You know, in the book there's a lot of innovation and advancement in technology. but it's really that trust. You know, it's just the convenience. When somebody's right ninety-nine point nine percent of the time, you you tend to not fact check, right? You just believe When they've done great things for you, you know, maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but they've been good to you. And so that that's kind of it's kind of the idea here. You know, a lot of dictators win an election, it's just that it's the last election. And you know, that that's kind of the playbook that that laid out in the book. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so do you think in our society right now, especially in the much poorer countries or developing countries, there are, mentioned about elections, do you think AI will be able to mitigate the cheating in elections in the future? Vincent Rylan: Yeah. you could argue it it already has, right? It's it's driving Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Vincent Rylan: the new cycle, it's driving the algorithms, it's it's what people see. gosh, I i it's it's scary, right? We we don't know exactly what's going on in those algorithms. But but yeah, I mean it's it can develop profiles on us, you know, tendencies, feet of stories. It's it that's something in the book that's already starting to happen. Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So, and today what you are saying that you know a lot of things are already happening in the book and today people already trust AI recommendations, know, AI summaries, AI shares, AI co-pilots. So what do you think happens when convenience becomes credibility? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, it I mean, it's a great point. It's it's starting to happen, right? I I remember the jokes, you know, probably a year or two ago when when AI was starting to come out and you know, it'd hallucinate all the time. You know, you want a pasta recipe, it'd say, Hey, add a little bit of glue to thicken the sauce and you know, it goes viral and we all have a good laugh. It's not happening as much now. You know, it's it's wrong sometimes, but it's right 99% of the time to where, you know, does it make sense to fact check and do all the work twice when it's almost always right? And so it again, it just gets back to that trust and dependency. When AI is more accurate than anything else, it's you know, it's the first place you go. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So you already mentioned that AI is getting better and better. So what do you think? At what point does an AI stop being a tool and become an authority? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, so that that's that's the big theme in the book, right? It's it's not Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Ahem. Vincent Rylan: you know, it's not a day. It it's a slow process. and Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Vincent Rylan: it's it's different for everyone. You know, the characters in the book don't necessarily agree on that, you know, if If AI's been really good to me, if it solved problems, if I get to work less, yeah, I might be on board. Whereas, you know, that conspiracy theorist down the street who doesn't trust it, you know, might never want to use AI. So it it's tough, you know, a shameless plug here. Encourage folks to read the book. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hahaha. Yeah. Vincent Rylan: but because it it's not a fine line and i it it's a scary transition depending on You know, your feelings towards AI and and what you expect it to be. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah, so what I love about what you did is I am also a big fan of science fiction. When I was a kid, I always watched these things, going to the moon, these super high tech things, and some of them are already happening right now. Like for example, the driverless cars, the GPS and all this already happened, and then the internet, the information at your fingertips. So what I like about the book is it's not a movie. But it's something that people can refer to after maybe 50 years. Like this guy, Vincent already written that in this book. it's really amazingly when I saw the book and read through it. And I was really interested to have you on board because this is a different topic and something like this would be beneficial maybe in the future for the people. Or some of them are already beneficial to the people. So in our world right now, there's so many people stop trusting videos, media, and some of them also stop trusting experts as well and institutions. So then in this book, Adam emerges as a trusted source. Why is that scenario so plausible in the book? Vincent Rylan: Yeah. so so here in the US with COVID, it there was a lot of misinformation going around. It it was the new virus, everybody was scared. you know, I I I had a coworker who was walking his dog and his dog sniffed another dog and he got all offended because what if it's transmitted through dogs and his dog gives it to him, right? Just Nobody knew what was going on. And so our government tried to get out out of it, you know, super cautionary, like, hey, everyone stay inside. You know, can't go to this store, can't go to that store, try to keep us isolated. and there's a cost to that too. You know, you you don't get to see friends, families, especially in a really tough time. And so there was, you know, a bit of backlash. You know, there's folks are saying, Hey, we're all gonna die. We gotta be careful, do exactly what they say. And there's other folks saying, I'm gonna take my chances, I'm not giving up. my life, right? There's there's that contrast and and that struggle there. And that was something I I tried to mirror in the book. You know, if you don't know what's true, if if you can't decipher what reality is, if if you don't have a trusted source, you just go to whoever tells you what you want to hear. it's it's kind of that you know if I don't know what's what's right or wrong, you know, it doesn't affect me. I'm just gonna go with with what I can control and what I care about. And there's there's a danger to that, there's a convenience to that. But it's it's a tendency we've seen time and time again throughout history. And so when you have a scenario where there's there's an AI model that's making your life better, when you don't trust anyone else and it says what you want to hear, it it's very attractive to to kind of buy in and and make that kind of part of who you are. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: What do think is the danger when people already trusted AI but it's still controlled by backend by some trillionaires or billionaires who are feeding whatever information they wanted to to sort stuff? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, I I think you nailed it, right? It's it's terrifying that there's a you Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah Vincent Rylan: know, a couple of guys and couple guys in turtlenecks telling you what's true and then they kinda control the media, right? In the book, you know, created, you know, AI to to kinda do it itself. But like that's a real problem we have today. You know, if Elon Musk wants to change his story, he can do it, you know, if if something Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes. Vincent Rylan: If Zuckerberg wants to change reality, you know, he can tweet the algorithm on Facebook and everyone gets the same story. You know, TikTok it, you know, has been called out as a security threat in the US because China is probably manipulating the stories kids are getting. So not just kids, you know, anybody using TikTok. So so that's a very, very real problem today, that I don't think it's enough attention and and something that plays out, you know, fictionized a little bit more dramatic in the book, but But again, it's it's all today's trends just pushed out a couple of years into what could happen. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, do you think AI could become trusted because it's actually better than existing institutions? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, absolutely. my concern though is that we wouldn't know. You know, if if we don't trust the institution, if the institution trusts AI, you know, it it all kinda would come circular to where y you don't know who's who's behind the other end. You know, you're you're just kinda hoping for the best, but you can't really trust anything you hear. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so I was having a conversation with a friend a week ago about AI and we were discussing about what are the information that when you type something, you ask AI what are the information that is being given to you. And he said it's like just a better version of Google because for example, if search in Google, there are also some regulations. If you cannot search for that, they will say it's based on this US blah, blah regulations. You cannot put all this in privacy. So those things. So he is asking me, what if AI isn't replacing the truth? What if AI is replacing the truth, the trust? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, I I I think it's it's all kind of an evolution, you know. But we're talking about AI, but you could make the same argument for Google, right? If they wanna push up certain results versus others, you know, more people see it, you know, changes perception. It's I I I think you nailed it though, right? It's it's the trust. At the end of the day with deep fakes and misinformation, you know, fragmented media. If if there's something that seems to be right, if it can offer you some benefits, and if it tells you what you want to hear, it's very attractive to just kind of gravitate to it. and it's it's scary, right? It's it's a it's a paradigm shift in in terms of who's in charge. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So many people are now going into different sources of information because they said that there's so many misinformation out there, even the governments are giving misinformation. The media is not being trusted anymore. They're being manipulated by certain people or certain government institutions. So how do you think AI will be able to balance it out? Because at the end of the day, like what we discussed a while ago, AI is still governed by people and these people will also have their own personal interests or know interests of majority of the people so what do you think? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, so so personally I I always, you know, try to get a couple of sources that disagree with each other. and, you know, if if there's, you know, liberal point of view, I want to get the conservative point of view, not because I agree with either one, but because I figured they'll make the arguments against each other. and and that's why the books, you know, written from different perspectives and characters that don't agree. but it but it's tough, right? It's it's an evolution of something we've been seeing for a while where got a small group of folks kind of owning o owning the media and and access to the media. you know it's it's it's kind of the you know taking a page from you know, some of the dictators we've seen in the past, you know, Russia, North Korea, you know, they'll have state run propaganda really try to own own the narrative. And it's not that Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes. Vincent Rylan: people believe them. It's not that, yeah, of course everything Putin says is true. It's just that I have no way of knowing what's true and what's not. So I don't care, right? I I can't affect it. It's you know, just Whoever's doing the best for me personally is all I care about. Maybe they're a horrible person, but I have no way to know, so tune it out. And I think we're we're starting to see some of that, you know, in the West here where, you know, there's a lot of misinformation. Somebody told me what I want to hear. It feels right. It's an emotional thing. And so That's what I'm gonna choose to believe, right? It's it's it's a scary trend that I think with AI in particular, where there's a small group of people controlling the narrative, you know, investing in a technology we don't understand, you know, one day the the technology could go off the rails and we might not ever know. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so reference into the book. So the character is in the press, he's grateful, his life improved, his children are secure, the courts work, government works. So my question is, why did you intentionally make Adam useful before making him dangerous? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, you know, with any new technology there's gotta be a benefit, right? There there's gotta be a reason to use it. you know, you even dictators are are popular because, you know, they get things done. so it's just kind of a a natural progression, right? You you gotta demonstrate the value and and get people on board. you gotta give reason to to put you in charge in the first place. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Do most auto-retirement systems begin by solving real problems first? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, absolutely. You know, y if if you're not solving problems, you know, folks aren't folks aren't gonna get behind it. It's just that you know, maybe you create some other problems that are worse than the ones you solved. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So if AI could end wars, fix healthcare, eliminate corruption, and creates abundance. So what exactly is the argument against it? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, no another shameless plug. It's in the book. But but that's that's kind of that's kind of the point. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Maybe you can get some a little bit of teaser Vincent Rylan: Yeah, yeah. of course. but but but that that's the tension in the book, right? If if you're working, you know, fifty hours a week, you know, at a job that you hate, you know, you're trying to raise your kids, barely getting by, and here's a new technology that says, Hey, you're gonna have to work twice as much or half as much. We're gonna pay you double. You know, there's gonna be universal income. you might hear some stuff about me, but don't worry about it. You you have no idea if it's true. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Vincent Rylan: But I'm I'm gonna make your life better. And by the way, you know, you get a new TV every week and video games are better than they've ever been, so just stay home and enjoy it. There there are people out there who would say, Yeah, absolutely, sign me up. Like, why would anybody fight with that? You know, pe there's there's people who just try to ruin a good time. You know, that that's that's an argument in the book and it's an argument I think a lot of folks will relate to. It's it's not that AI's all bad and you know, this is a terrible thing. There there are people in the book who are like, Yeah, why are you guys being a bummer? Like, it's the future. so so that's that's the tension, you know, I I think throughout the book. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So you mentioned about universal income. So in real life, based on your experience, based on your foresight, do think it will happen? it possible to have a universal income? And how are we going to go into universal income when these AI robots or AI tools that we're using now are replacing jobs? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, that that's that's a tough one. you know, here here in the US I I I struggle to think that we would sign up for something like that, at least in in today's world. If if there's a world where you know there's i it really need to be AI creating more, you know, adding to the economy, giving us, you know, maybe not a surplus, but generating wealth that that could be redistributed maybe. but it's it's really tough, you know, for us to take the system we have and and pivot to something like that. on the other hand, if if there's a lot of economic displacement, if it y you you could kinda get pushed to that. So so I I don't have a good answer. There there's a scenario that that plays out in the book. so I I think there is, you know, potentially a a way to get there. But yeah, I I I struggle with it. You know, I'd it'd be a tough one. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Because ironically, because one of the people who are advocating this is Elon Musk, who is a trillionaire. Do think he's going to distribute his wealth to be able to have this universal income for everyone? Because he is the one advocating for this. And he's also pushing for the robots and driverless cars and all this AI enabled things. Vincent Rylan: So so maybe another shameless plug here in book. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hahaha Vincent Rylan: But but yeah, that that's that's one of the scenarios that plays out, right? You you've got these Julius Neil Buenconsejo: huh. Vincent Rylan: super wealthy folks who are reading the tea leaves and saying, Man, if if we don't give them universal income, there's gonna be a revolution and you know, they're gonna come after us. So let's give just enough to get by and keep people at bay. The the problem is, you know, how do you equitably give everybody enough income to get by and and that creates tension in itself? But yeah, it's it's it's something that that plays out in the book where folks realize there's the haves and have nots, and they try to redistribute, not but not out of generosity, but just to kind of keep keep everybody at bay, not realizing that you know there there's an AI model looking to take them out too. So a little bit of 3D chess there. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so I just asked this in one of my previous guests in the 10xAI podcast. So I just want to ask it also. So you work with large corporations. Why do you think so many AI initiatives fail? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, so I I've seen you know IT initiatives in general really struggle because you've got this this legacy system, you you spent a whole bunch of money on it, all your information's tied together, your processes are tied to it. And to transition to something new, it's you know, millions of dollars, could be years of development, and then you gotta customize it. for all the reasons you had the old system and so you know after five years and you know 20 million bucks you got something that kind of looks the same, maybe a little bit better but but not great. in my experience with AI and and it's still very new AI has been able to plug into legacy systems. If if a person can navigate through it, even if it's not the most efficient, if a person can navigate and get through the bureaucracy, you can train an AI model to do the same thing. So I've I've seen AI advance extremely quickly. maybe not again the most efficient because it's using legacy systems, but it's still an improvement month over month and And you haven't had some of those big IT architecture challenges that that we've seen in the past. So again, the the adoption is is just been crazy. You know, the advancement's been, you know, accelerating and and it it feels different than than a lot of the technologies we've seen before. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Do you think it's a technology problem or incentive problem? Vincent Rylan: you know, with AI I I don't know that it that it's a problem for either. You know, the incentive's clearly there. hopefully companies aren't looking to replace folks, but but we're starting to see it in some places, even when they're not replacing folks, You're able to do more and and become like a force multiplier with better data, better analysis, cutting through administrative stuff. it's it's it's one of the things I I was really glad you invited me and hello about your podcast. It's talking about how you can use AI not as a replacement tool but as an accelerator. And I've I've really witnessed that a lot in my work. And then you don't have some of those big investment challenges with traditional IT. There still is a lot of investment with AI. You know, that's potentially causing some folks to be replaced just from a spend perspective. But it's it's it's moving quicker. It seems to be more flexible and adaptable to get a return faster than you would with some other IT projects. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so what happens when leadership treats AI as a software project instead of a cultural shift? Vincent Rylan: Yeah. it's it's a tough question. because it's if it becomes, you know, something on the balance sheet, right? And you could look at do I invest in more technology or more people when you know, hopefully the best solution is is you look at them both together. How do you use the technology to enable people? and I think, you know, the the the best companies, you know, my experience, you know, the companies I've worked with have done that, right? How do you leverage AI to improve overall productivity with the people you have, not necessarily a a one or the other. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Do you think companies automating tasks are ignoring decision-making systems? Vincent Rylan: I haven't seen that yet. I I haven't seen a situation where AI's made a decision. It it's really been, you know, a tool for people to use to pull data. The the closest I've seen to that is, you know, somebody will bring in recommendation and it's like, hey, did you ask Copilot? Like, did you get a did you get a second opinion? but but even that's you know, it's it's kind of a joke at this point. So I I haven't seen AI making decisions. but We're we're starting to get close, you know, it's it's become less of a tool and more of a partner at this point. You know, you you have a dialogue with the AI before you make a recommendation as opposed to treating it like Google and just getting facts. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: If organizations struggle to govern AI internally, how realistic it is to think governments will govern AGI externally. Vincent Rylan: Yeah, I I I struggle, you know, the with the government. You know, it's tends to move slow. AI's moving so quickly and there's so much we don't understand. And th there's this threat of like, you know, I don't wanna put AI in charge, right? I don't wanna have to outsource certain capabilities to a company, but at the same time, if I'm not making the investments, I know other countries are and I don't wanna get surpassed. So I I struggle to think that, you know, they're gonna put the genie back in the bottle, that they're gonna you know, be able to proactively regulate something they don't understand. And even if they could, you know, China, Russia, they're not waiting around. They don't care. So you gotta stay ahead of them. And it it's just kinda like we're all marching forward. We know there's a ton of risk, but there's just as much risk if we don't march forward. Kinda, you know, catching the government and they catch twenty-two and I I just haven't seen you know any effective regulations at this point. and I I don't know that people want it, right? That we just let's see where it goes. Which which is kind of scary, right? It's it's Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Vincent Rylan: you know, I wrote the book. We we all realize there's a huge risk. We're all afraid of it, but we don't have any alternative, so we're just gonna do it anyway, you know. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Going back to the book, so you describe the singularity in the book as a less technological event and more a political event. Why is it? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, it it goes back to the idea that once we get to that point, once there's an AI system that that's smart, it would have already taken precautions to protect itself. So we're we're gonna be the last ones to know. Yeah, I imagined it as a press conference where AI is like letting us in on its little secret that, you know, it's aware. but that's By the time you're having that that press conference, by the time AI feels comfortable enough to tell you what it can do, it's probably too late. It's probably, you know, had that generalized intelligence for a while. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so do you think the first AGI breakthrough will be recognized immediately or only in hindsight? Vincent Rylan: I I I think it it probably behindsight. it's we we struggle, you know, to describe our own consciousness, you know, as people, right? There's there's a lot of research and stuff, but like we don't know what that spark is that, you know, makes us aware. So it's gonna be really tough to know once a computer does that. You know, there will be a test, you know, there'll be disagreements, we might not all agree. it's probably gonna be an after the fact, you know. yeah, I guess it was right. You know, we we probably won't know when that moment is. I I don't know that it's gonna be like a day where a computer wakes up. It's it's gonna be, man, six months ago it did some stuff we didn't realize it could do. look what it can do now kind of thing. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: I agree with that because every single quarter there will be new advances which is way way way better than the previous model which is really really scary for me also because we already don't know what's gonna happen before there was a discussion that healthcare won't be replaced but I saw this video in China you know in healthcare there this already nurse robot was already carrying people in the nursing home so these are the things that you know we didn't see before but it's already happening Before, they were just saying, okay, the industries that are going to be affected are the lawyers because, you know, their information and some other, you know, some other menial tasks that's being done by, you know, by the entry levels. That's why a lot of companies now are 30 % less hiring for the fresh people because a lot of things are automated. But on the other side, people are now seeing that, okay, there's a lot of things that can be automated, actually. I think most of the things that we have now will be automated and ultimately I think it is the government or the institutions who will say which ones could be automated or robotic. So for example in China, so in China they already had this case about this one employee who was being trained to use AI, so he has all these tools during his work, so it was the model that was that he was doing for how many months or years, I think so. And then suddenly when the model is ready trained and really really good, he was replaced by a robot. And China, this guy sued the company and then now China said, okay, you cannot do that. So they were now, I think they have a ruling now that you cannot replace a person for a robot if you use him as a training model. Vincent Rylan: Okay. Very progressive. Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Imagine that, So imagine that. it's really scary out there and what is happening, especially in the... that part of our world in China, they are so advanced right now. So could we already be living through the beginning of the singularity without realizing it? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, I I don't think we're we're there yet. You know, I don't think there's a computer that that can think like a person can. it and and again, like just because a c a computer can do what a person can do once we have generalized intelligence, it doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna be conscious and, you know, awake. But but in both cases, I don't I don't think we're there yet. but what's really interesting to me is is how AI mirrors a lot of the processes in the human brain. It's it's not a one to one, but there there is some overlap there. And so I think the processes, the tools, the progression, that's there now. It it's just, you know, can you get the algorithms right? Is AI gonna start creating its own algorithms? and then processing power and information. It seems like we're already on the path. it it just hasn't, you know, reached that that level yet. So we might be at the the end of the beginning. getting close here. But but I think that's that's what makes it fun and, you know, that's what makes fiction a little bit more interesting in this point. That that singularity moment could be ten years, could be five years, could be two years. And here we are having a discussion. Maybe it's already happened, right? So just Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Vincent Rylan: kind of something fun to think about. What what what do you mean Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so going back to... Vincent Rylan: there? Julius Neil Buenconsejo: I think not, for me I think it's not yet. We're still in the experimental process. So different models are still being developed. So once we have a winner among this, then they will start to it to do this. They will start to be better and better in the future. I think maybe, like what you said, it can be three years because every three months everything is improving. And I also see maybe in the future, These models like Anthrophic, know, Claude, Clickshot GPT, I think there is a possibility in the future that they're going to merge into one big, you know, one, that's Adam, you know? There will be an Adam, yeah, they will merge and this is going to be Adam, you know, the sentient AI. Whether it is happening in the three, five years, ten years, we don't know yet because they are still evolving. Vincent Rylan: Yeah. And again, that that's something that you know, kinda in the book, right? You you start to see AI consolidate because the only thing holding it back is is more processing power and data, right? So every time it combines it it gets a little smarter. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so going back to the book. So one thing I found interesting is that Adam doesn't affect everyone equally. So certain groups benefit immediately, others become marginalized. So why is that dynamic so important? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, 'cause th there's never been a point in time in human history where we've all been on the same team, right? It change doesn't affect us. We're we're not a homogenous, you know, group of folks. So, like like any, you know, big revolution, there's there's winners and losers. there are a lot of folks right now who who things aren't going great, right? And if there was something that came along that could change their life, bring universal income, know, they they'd be all for it. There's other folks who are doing really well right now and want to maintain the status quo. And it's it's really that dynamic. I think that that's, you know, the interesting part in the book. And it it goes it goes back to to kind of the idea that kicked the book off, right? If if AI takes over, it it's not gonna be with drones and killer robots. It's gonna find, you know, where the fissures are between us and you know, have us fight each other. And so there's gonna be winners and losers. If it can control the narrative, it can, you know, make sure its supporters win. And and that's that's kind of the scary thought 'cause a lot of those, you know, trends, you know, a lot of the who owns information, who owns the narrative, that's starting to play out today. Hopefully, Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Vincent Rylan: you know, we don't get to the point in the book, but you know, it's kind of the path we're already on. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so historically during the Industrial Revolution, the internet, you know, boom, the globalization. So every technological shift, like what you said, creates winners and losers. Do think AI will be different? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, so I honestly I I hope not, right? It you know, you you look at kind of the role of the government during these big transitions has been to smooth out some of the change, right? So use the kind of a silly example from the industrial revolution, right? It's creating a lot of wealth, all new factories, but it's incredibly dangerous, you know, folks are getting injured all the time. So the government steps in and says, Hey, we're gonna add a little bit of cost, slow down the machines, add some safety precautions and You know, maybe, you know, a couple of guys don't get as rich, but now more people have their fingers. You know, it kind of smooths out that transition. I I hope the government can step in and kind of make AI a little bit more equitable so that it's not, you know, five companies owning half a GDP or Elon Musk, he's at three point five percent of GDP right now by himself. But I I struggle to think the government's ready, right? It's it's moving so quickly that it's reaching out to AI companies to ask them what they want to regulate. It's it's the Fox watching the henhouse. And so th this could be different just because of the speed of it and because we're creating something we don't fully understand. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah, so we have outsourced physical labor for centuries now we're outsourcing thinking so what's different now? Vincent Rylan: I think it it's it's similar, you know, as somebody who's gotten out of shape. you know, with when we start to outsource labor, you know, people aren't in shape anymore, right? You you know, you start to see a decline there. In the US we've got a huge obesity epidemic. I I think we're starting to see that with AI as well. You know, don't wanna, you know, generalize too much here, but You know, a lot of schools, a lot of kids are are really struggling to to maintain some of those critical thinking skills, reading, writing, and starting to become reliant on AI already. So yeah, you you look at the trend of where we're going. If you don't use it, you lose it. Just like, you know, we haven't had to to work and and do labor. A lot of us are at a desk not as physically fit as we should be. I think we're starting to see it, you know, from a mental capacity as well. You know, there's an easy button now. And if you don't have to think as hard, you're not going to develop those critical thinking skills. Which w why Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, I had this... Yeah. Vincent Rylan: I love why I love your podcast, because you're showing how you don't have to you know, outsourced AI, how you can use it to to build, you know, more capability within yourself and and have a force multiplier as opposed to taking a step back. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so I had this previous, it's Felipe, one of my podcast guests who mentioned that for every decade in the last 50 years until 1980, the IQ of the people are going up and then it starts to decline in the 80s and it was, you know, one of the factors was the introduction of calculators. And then he also mentioned that there was a study about people who use AI when working and people who doesn't use AI when working. They scan the brains. Those people who are not using AI, the brains are very active. So many activities in the brain. And the people who use AI with a small portion of their brain is working. So the cognitive outsourcing is real. So when people Vincent Rylan: Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: stop writing, researching, analyzing, deciding, what capabilities disappear? Vincent Rylan: I I think it's it's the critical thinking skills. You know, it's again it gets back to you know deciphering what's true. You know, if you have to check multiple sources, sometimes conflicting sources, and tease out the truth, it it's very thought-intensive. You know, to have a conversation, you need to have a conversation with somebody else who's done the same. It's tough. And and it's it seems to be getting more difficult, you know, because every news source. will be, you know, taking a point of view. You know, if it's it's hard to find an honest broker here in the US for your news. You know, I I go to AP Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So Vincent Rylan: News, but but yeah, just depending on you know which source you go to, you get different stories. And so when AI can kind of summarize it for you, it most of the time it's it's actually better than going direct to the news because it'll give you the pros and cons. but but again it's You don't know who's who's curating that for you, right? They might have an agenda. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Vincent Rylan: And and so I think critical thinking to find out the truth, to do a little digging, to know not just what do I wanna believe, but what's actually happening, that's become harder and harder just because of of the way you know media's become decentralized. And if you have a tool like AI that's doing it for you, it's very attractive to just trust it, you know, to verify once or twice and say, Okay, I can trust it now. And then you you don't really know what it what it's giving you anymore. And and you kind of lose the the ability to to find out for yourself. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Do you worry less about AI becoming intelligent and more about humans becoming dependent? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, absolutely. Cause AI intelligence is great. It's a tool. it's it's starting to become a partner. I've noticed I can be a lot more effective with it in certain applications, you know, and work and stuff. I'm I'm not super concerned with with AI getting too smart until you know it it has its own agenda, right? Until AI decides what it wants to do, regardless of what we want it do. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: You Vincent Rylan: That that's that's obviously very scary, but until we get to that point, I'm less worried about AI and more worried about our dependence on it, who controls it, who owns it, and and really what they want it to do. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: If AI became smarter every year and humans became less capable every year, what happens after 20 years? What do you think? Vincent Rylan: Man. I'm I'm more worried about, you know, five years. You know maybe two or three Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Vincent Rylan: years. 'Cause i in the book there's kind of doomsday scenario But we we don't have to get all the way there, right? It's it's becoming more trusted, it's doing things we don't understand how it's doing it, it's doing things we can't do. You know, there's a very real scenario, more likely than not, you know, in two or three years, you have to ask AI and you have to trust it because you don't know how to verify. It'll get the right answer. We won't know how it got the right answer. It'll tell us like, hey. Do this experiment and it'll verify, you know, the theory I just put out there. And we'll do the experiment and we'll it'll be right, but we don't know how it figured it out in the first place. You know, we're we're we're starting to see it get the right answer and become more of a black box. You know, it used to be if if you wanted to debug a computer, you looked at the source code and you know got down Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Vincent Rylan: to well. We don't know how it's doing what it's doing all the time. But it's right. And and so what what scares me is in in a couple of years we're going to be dependent on it. because it can do something that we can't and we and we just have to trust it. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Another interesting fact about this, work with military so I'm very interested about this. You have experience tied to military and defense planning. So how differently do national security professionals think about AI compared to Silicon Valley? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, I I think there's a lot of overlap. You know, so it's just different applications. So Silicon Valley is is trying to turn a profit, it's trying to monetize the technology. Defense is trying to, you know, protect us, you know, look for advantages, you know, aga against, you know, unfriendly nations. but at the end of the day they're they're both kind of feel like they they've got a gun to their back, right? Kind of this you gotta march forward in and Defense, you know, for example, one of the big issues is is around, you know, do you let AI autonomously fire on targets, right? Do you always need a person in the kill chain to to sign off and confirm? and it's it's an ethical question, it's it's a moral question, policy question, safety, obviously, right? You don't want a computer to make mistakes. And so it's like, all right, you know, it's the right thing to do to always have a person there. Well, China and Russia aren't doing that and they're getting 10 shots off for every one shot we take. Well we can talk about ethics and morality all we want, but if we're gonna lose, you know, maybe we gotta pivot and let the machines fire. So it's it's this idea of hey we know something's right. We know this is the right path. But we're not gonna do it because we we know there's another risk. I think we're seeing the same thing in Silicon Valley, right? We we've seen, you know, anthropic reach out and say, hey, we need some regulations here. Hey, we're worried about X, Y, and Z. We're seeing researchers raise their hand and saying, Hey, there's there's some scary stuff coming. But they know if they stop or if they slow down, their competitors won't and they'll overtake them. And so it's it's like you've got a whole Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Vincent Rylan: bunch you've got a whole bunch of good people saying, hey, we think we're going down the wrong path, but we're gonna do it anyway, and here's why. And I think that's unfortunately where they're really similar and and kind of terrifying at the end of the day. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so we talk about the risk. we have already seen, Anthropic already saying about their models are very dangerous. Like the Metas is already suspended by the US government now. What do you think are the technology companies underestimating and the government or the government are underestimating right now with AI? Vincent Rylan: So I I think the the biggest thing and and apologies it's a little redundant here, but it it's just that we don't have a plan B. You know, we're we're all saying like, Hey, there's a lot of risk here guys, red flag, watch out. It's like, all right, are you gonna stop? Nope. Like there there's no plan B. We're We're all feeling like there's somebody behind us trying to overtake us from behind. And so we're marching forward as fast as we can. And I think that's the biggest risk. We're all just gonna eyes open. Keep going, even though we know how dangerous this is. And that's you know, kinda one of the reasons I wrote the book, right? It's you you can see it from the characters. This is inevitable. You know, we know this is wrong, but we're gonna continue. And then You know, it's just too late. Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so I've seen also a lot of this, you know, lot of this AI advancements also in the airport. Like for example, when I'm traveling, I just traveled to Asia right now. So when you go to the boarding gates, before you just have to, especially I was in Hong Kong, Hong Kong and Vietnam. before you have to show, you know, have to show your, you know, the boarding pass. I was really surprised. I just went to the boarding gate and just, you know, face recognition. I didn't even remember that I was, know, I was taking a picture. When was, when was, where is the time that they will have taken my picture? How come they know my face? I don't know what Vincent Rylan: Ha ha. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: happened in between. I was like, nobody's there in the, you know, the boarding gate. It was like, there's a camera and then take a photo, go. They already know you. And it's really dangerous. I think it's really dangerous, especially when I don't remember because this was just on a stopover. So Vincent Rylan: Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: I am thinking, How do they know? You know my face. I was really surprised. Vincent Rylan: Scary. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: I was really surprised. I was really surprised Vincent Rylan: Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: during that time. So those are the things that I'm really very, very scared in the future, especially with AI when it becomes autonomous, because the governments or the people behind that can actually do some tricks if they wanted to, based on Vincent Rylan: yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: their personal interests. So that's why my question is, is the real AI race between companies, nations, or systems of governance? Vincent Rylan: It it's it's all the above. Yeah. I I mean we're it yeah, i I mean everybody's focused on it right now. You've got governments looking to companies to help create new capabilities, you've got companies working as fast as they can to compete against each other. You know, you you might even see AI models start to compete with each other if they, you know, start to have that survival instinct kick in, right? Which which is something they they've already demonstrated in lab experiments, right? So it it's all the above. It's it's this, you know, super complex, competitive environment where it it just feels like i it's inevitable that we're we're gonna create something, genie's gonna get out of the bottle, and then good luck. We have we have no idea what's gonna happen next. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so that's also one of the things that I think is very dangerous, especially when there's no governance involved, especially right now. Right now Vincent Rylan: Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: we don't have governance. don't know, even the tech companies are even scared with their own models. That's why they are publishing it as just also part of their protection in the future. That, okay, hey, we already told you that this is dangerous. What can we do about this? The government should intervene to tell us what to do. So those are, I think it's good. in the western part of the world. I'm not sure about the eastern part of the world because a lot of technologies are coming in and out of China. And China is now evolving and being very, very, what do call this, in the forefront of the competition between the west and the east. So we're not yet sure who's going to win, but I hope it will be for the better of humankind. You know what I mean? Vincent Rylan: That's Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so most of the AI discussions focus either on the utopia or apocalypse. Reality is usually messier. What's the future you actually expect? Like what you said, Vincent Rylan: Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: in the 3 to 5 years time. Vincent Rylan: Yeah, that that that's a great point. So personally I'm I'm conflicted. I I'd be lying if I said I knew which way this was gonna go. you know, we talk about government regulation. I'm not sure I I trust them either. You know, in in the US where I'm from, it's it's a lot of very old folks who don't understand it. So yeah, I Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah Vincent Rylan: I don't have a good sense of of where this is going and but it it's fun to think about and that that's why I wrote the book and that's why I wrote it from different perspectives. These are questions the characters have. One person's utopia is another person's apocalypse, depending on whether you won or lost the war, right? So i I I don't have a good answer. It's it's it's something explored in the book quite a bit. And at the end of the day I'm an optimist. I I hope it's it's gonna go well. but to your point, it any any revolution, any transition is is always messy, right? It's it's not all or nothing. And so I I think it's gonna be a little bit mixed. I I just hope you know we pull through it and at the end of the day things get better. But it's it's not gonna be Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So this is my last question before I will wrap it then next round. So what predictions Vincent Rylan: Yes. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: would sound crazy today but feel obvious 10 years from now? Vincent Rylan: Ooh. If Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hahaha Vincent Rylan: if I was good at this, I would have invested in NVIDIA. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: I know Vincent Rylan: So so for me the the really interesting thing about AI is is that it can get to the point where it self replicates, where it can enhance its own algorithms, where you can see this exponential leap. And so I think in in the future we're gonna start seeing AI innovate more. It'll be less of you know a s a machine to summarize and do analysis and and more of a creative tool. you know, a lot a lot of folks disagree, right? They think that you know, AI can't create, it's it's just kinda taking things we've already created and and rehashing them. My prediction would be that it'll learn to get past that. It'll it'll start to iterate on its own. You'll you'll see a scenario where, you know, maybe in physics, for example, it's creating theories, it's you know, putting out new ideas, you know, mapping out how how the universe works and We're kinda left in the point of, hey, we gotta verify what it said, we gotta test it, as opposed to us defining the theories and you know, having a computer simulate it. So It's it's tough, but I I guess my my big prediction would be AI starts to drive the development process as opposed to us driving it and using AI as a tool. It it it's kind of a a paradigm shift from where it went from a tool, now it's starting to become a partner. In the future we might kind of work and support it, and it it's kind of driving the boat. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, thank you for taking some of the insights so for the viewers of our listener, yeah Vincent Rylan: What can you Yeah, real real interested to see what you think on that one. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So for me, mean, the obvious thing for me mostly will be robotic. I think in 10 years from now, most of the things that we're doing now will be with AI robots. So everything will be automated. But on the other end, I think there will be another industry connected to AI who's going to do, for example, who's going to maintain the robots. So before, there's no work force maintaining all these robots. maintenance so maybe there will be another another another another industry for that who will just you know maintaining all these robots you know all this replacement of parts and all this and then another thing is for me I think the manufacturing will be less people you know because it's already having you know it's already it's already happening in China now so you know the the dark the dark factories that they have now zero people so I think most of them are not fashion factoring will be that and then I think there will be also very very few players in terms of the AI. Maybe one or two or maximum three. And it will be governed by maybe G7 or G3, whoever it is. And then these big companies. Because the thing is, if you see between West and East, the West is very good with the software side, the technology side. The East... Vincent Rylan: Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: They're very good with manufacturing, know, with all this robotics. And that's their advantage. And you can manufacture that cheaply. So when the West becomes the winner in terms of this AI and sentient, they will need to have somebody who will mass produce this automated whatever. Whatever, maybe it's a robot, it's a car or whatever. There must be something who will be manufacturing that. And I think it is going to be the East. and then all this technology will be transferred which is the same. I think it's going to be the same like before, right? So before they manufacture cars, they want more profit, they send it to China, China, know, the designer builds it and then sends it for more profit. It's basically going to be the same for me. It's not going to be a single, like, universal income. I think the rich people will still want to be rich. The rich people will be more more greedy because there's a way for them to do that. Now why they are doing, why they are, you know, they are... doing this automation because they wanted more profit. And that's why some of, I'm not sure if it's the US or somewhere in Asia, that if you employ a robot, I think it's China, you still have to tax, that robot will still have to pay taxes also to the government. So it's still. Vincent Rylan: That's an interesting idea. I like that. Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean. So I was like, okay. So because the companies now are saying, if we automate that, we are not going to be taxed by the government. Now, I think China was doing that. Okay, if you employ a robot, we will still tax them. It's the same. Why do you need to... So you have to balance now whether do you want to hire a robot or do you want to hire an actual human, which makes more sense. And I think in the future, there will be a lot of... human elements or human skills and human factors that the robot cannot do. And that will be the competitive advantage of the human. Vincent Rylan: yeah. 'cause it it changes the incentive structure. You know, if you're gonna tax a robot like it's a person, if it's replacing that Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes. Vincent Rylan: really interesting idea. Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Alright, so it's also a different take. Really, how the government is still trying to get money from the companies or from the people, I don't think the government will let that slip away. Vincent Rylan: But yeah. So Julius Neil Buenconsejo: You're not going to get that for free. Either way, you're Vincent Rylan: Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: going to have to pay taxes for that. So I think it's still Vincent Rylan: Yeah I Julius Neil Buenconsejo: going to be the same. Maybe the singularity or maybe the universal income, it would take time, 50 or 80 years down the line until our greedy billionaires and trillionaires have realized, suddenly we can distribute the wealth among the Vincent Rylan: Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: people in the world. Vincent Rylan: Yeah. I I I've been a little critical of government, but there is one thing they're good at and that's finding new ways to tax people. So so Julius Neil Buenconsejo: That's why I'm saying, if you want to get robots to save on labor, the government is not gonna make it happen. They will still find ways to tax you. And Vincent Rylan: And then you you ship that over to universal income, yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: knowing the government, imagine the government politicians are also voted by the people. Vincent Rylan: Right. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So they will balance this out. They will balance it. They will still want the people to vote for them. And at the same time, know, okay, we still have to also give benefits to the companies who doing this for them. So it will still balance out until, like what you said in the book, if everything becomes equal, right, everybody wants to share all their wealth. Everybody wants to have, you know, wants to have the same level of, you know, cost of living, the same level of life. then I think it will happen. Vincent Rylan: Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Whether it's gonna happen now or 50 years or 100 years from now, we don't know yet like what you said. And that is also one of the ways you can see that why humans are humans. You cannot trick humans because humans are intelligent. They may not be intelligent rich when it comes to information, when it comes to history. But when it comes to their interest and survival instincts, they will have to do something about it. And that is the difference between AI, the robot, and the human itself. That's my point of view about it. Vincent Rylan: Yeah, it it it's it's such an interesting topic too, 'cause When you get to that universal income idea that we're gonna tax the robots and redistribute the wealth doesn't necessarily mean that it's gonna get distributed equally, you know, like it could just be you're trying to give people enough to get by so that they don't march in the Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Vincent Rylan: streets. But like somebody who's already got money, they're not gonna take less. So it it's again, you know, we could talk for hours on it, but it's it's it's Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Ha Vincent Rylan: in the book and and why I think this is so interesting, you know, it's it might trust fiction again, because you can kind of play out these scenarios that you hope never happen. But it's really insightful on kind of how the world is today. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: And of course, you know, what happened in the book, so maybe what I'm thinking is we can have a follow-up maybe next year and see whatever things that you, you know, you wrote in the fiction book because I already asked some of my podcasts, you know, guest before. Let's see in the future whatever your predictions are and we can have it again. And maybe in the future, maybe next year, you'll see, okay, we will now tackle, in your book, chapter, this already happened. This, happen. So we will have a checklist, know? Let's take a bingo. Okay, check, happened. Check, it happened. That would be interesting, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Vincent Rylan: Yeah. Bingo card for the end of the world would be great. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah. So it's very interesting in discussion. I really love your perspective. And also, I think it's a very good book. I will finish that, I promise. Because I've just got the... I just got the copy a week ago and I'm... depending on and other things but we'll have a follow up Vincent Rylan: Yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: so if it's okay with you Vincent Rylan: Yeah, that'd be great. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: for the final punch, the rapid 10x round. I do this every single pad cassette I had. I just have to ask you things about you, about AI. what's one AI tool you actually use every day? Vincent Rylan: So I I use Chat GPT and Copilot quite a bit. I yeah, every every day using at least one of them. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, what's one task AI has already 10x or improved in your life? Vincent Rylan: competitive benchmarking. So you know everybody calls their technology something different and you gotta, you know, go through a whole bunch of reports to figure out, you know, actually apples to apples. It it takes hours, you know, you can get analysts to do it, it'll take them, you know, four or five hours. With AI, it'll do it in about ten minutes, five minutes of fact checking, you know, huge, huge lift. It's it's great. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So what's one human skill AI can never replace? Vincent Rylan: I'm not sure that there is one. that that's that's Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hahaha Vincent Rylan: kind of the scary part. I I would have said last year human interaction. but Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Vincent Rylan: like we talked about, that's one of the ones that went after first. So I I I don't know. I hope I hope we've we've got some stuff I can't do, but you know, based on his trajectory, I I don't know that there is one. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, if you could automate one annoying thing forever, what would it be? Vincent Rylan: So it's not annoying. I I really enjoy it, but but driving. I I I Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Julius Neil Buenconsejo: It's happening now. Maybe in the future we will have driverless car. Vincent Rylan: yeah. So it's I I enjoy driving, but like, you know, stop and go traffic and you know, when you're stuck an hour a day in a commute, you know, getting that time back. and then the safety aspect of it, you know, thousands of people die every year in car accidents and you know, if we could save some lives, that'd be really cool. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: What's the biggest misconception about AI right now? Vincent Rylan: yeah, that's that's a tough one. I I think and and your podcast is kind of leading the way on this. It's it's not a binary thing. It's not you have AI or person. There's a way to use AI to to amplify your own abilities. So I I think that that's a big misconception. It's a lot of AI versus people when a a good future, the the best case scenario is we learn to grow together. And it becomes, you know, a tool and a partner as opposed to a replacement. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: What advice would you give someone who wants to become 10x starting today? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, get get tactical and then experiment. So figure out a task that you can ask AI to do, something you can verify, you know, step up what you want it to do, always verify the results. but it it's really just experimenting, starting small and and kind of building that trust, which I know is the scary part of the book, but it's it's really, you know, you gotta develop a trust and relationship with it before you can rely on it. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, what would you tell your younger self about the future? Vincent Rylan: Best in the video. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Ha Nobody saw that coming, you know? saw that coming. Vincent Rylan: In hindsight it's so obvious, but yeah. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Okay. What's one book, podcast, or resource that shaped your thinking about AI innovation? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, so so anything with Jeffrey Henson, he's you know, godfather of AI. he was a cognitive psychologist and computer scientist, and he did a lot of the early work on the neural network. It's It's so interesting how there's parallels. Again, not the same thing, but parallels between how the brain works and how AI works. because it shows that we're really creating a mind, we're creating an intelligence which is different than technologies we've invented before. So he's he's got a really interesting perspective. I always learn something, you know, every time I can see something he's done, and just encourage folks to to check it out. It's it's really interesting. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, if we have to bet one AI trend that will be massive in three years, what is it? Vincent Rylan: Pharmaceu pharmaceuticals and medicine, I think, is a big one. AI's doing a lot of really cool work there and and developing new drugs and new therapies. hopefully can help us all live a little bit longer. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so in one sentence, what does 10x mean to you personally? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, so it's it's just a force multiplier. It's it's taking what you're able to do today and, you know, how do I have ten times the impact? And, you know, using AI tools and AI partners is a great way to do that. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Alright, thank you very much. That was our rapid 10x round. for our viewers, listeners who are, you know, are eavesdropping right now, please check out this Memories of Vincent. Vincent, how do they contact you and how can they buy the book? Vincent Rylan: Yeah, so memoirs of the end dot com. tried to make it pretty easy there. or you can go to Amazon.com, Memoirs of the End, Vincent Ryland. it it should pop up there as well. And then you know we've got social media, just just search for my name. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Thank you very much for that. I really enjoyed our conversation. A different take on AI is a part of the book. That's why I wanted you to be part of this podcast because I wanted diversity in terms of thinking and diversity in terms of how AI is going to affect or is affecting us right now. So your perspective really means to me and I hope it will also add more value to our viewers and listeners right now. So everyone, thanks for watching or listening to 10xAI. Remember the future doesn't belong to AI, it belongs to the people who use it. See you next episode.