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Piccolo's Gambit: Episodes 110-111 · Becoming Saiyans-A Dragon Ball re-watch podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_00: And we're back.
0:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm Truman.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: And I'm Jesse.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: And this is Becoming Saiyans, a Dragon Ball Rewatch podcast.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: On today's episode, we watched episodes 110 and 111 of Dragon Ball, titled Piccolo Closes In and Roshi's Gambit.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: Piccolo Closes In came out in Japan originally on May the 4th, be with you, 1988.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: And in America on September 15th, 2003.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: While Roshi's Gambit came out on May 11th, 1988, and September 16th, 2003.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: Jumping into some differences in trivia.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: The uh first tri difference from the manga, Jesse, how many fingers does Piccolo have in the anime and how many in the manga?
0:41
SPEAKER_02: Four versus five or something else.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: It was not raining during Goku and Piccolo's fight in the manga.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: This also goes for all of Roshitin and all of them figuring out what's going on in that the episode.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: Um Piccolo beating on Goku at the start of the episode did not occur in the manga.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: In the manga, when Yajorobi's asking Goku for directions, a man riding a bike can be seen looking shocked at the air car veering off the road.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: But this guy is not in the anime.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: The visual account that accompanies Yajorobi's exclamation to Goku about King Piccolo's backstory is not in a manga, but that's understandable because like you have more you have more space to do that in a show.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: Um this episode actually had the lowest rating for the Dragon Ball anime series in Fuji on Fuji TV with a 13.7% rating share.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: I mean it was like the least watched one.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm assuming that's what that rating is, is it's just the least watched.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: Uh either least watched or least rated?
1:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: Least highly rated.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: But I'm just going with it's probably least watched with the rating share that they say there.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: Makes me think it's like the least watched episode.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Which um, yeah.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh in the Japanese version and the manga, Yajirobi considered eating the uh Goku only to write it off as being too disrespectful.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: But that was excluded from the English versions.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: In the English version, Piccolo proclaims that with all seven dragon balls, his youth will be restored.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: But before, he said that his desire was for eternal youth.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: It's likely a mi a misunderstranslation and by Funimation, because you know, it's constantly he's wanted to be known as eternal youth.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: He just they just wrote the wrong one that time.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: Despite having met Roshi on his home island back in Nimbus Clodavoshi, Pilov, May, and Shu do not are do not appear to have recognized him, even though that you know the scene that they see them in is technically filler or whatever.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: Um the going into differences in trivia for the second episode, Jesse, what is the first difference from the manga?
2:46
SPEAKER_00: The f amount of fingers on their hands.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: Good job.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm a deploy.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the scene at Kamehals with Ulong pointing out that their dragon, you know, the stationary radar is faulty and all that is a filler.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's not surprising.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: The moment where Roshi tells Piccolo to laugh while he can after he mocks the ladder for his age was not included in the anime.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: Um that's a moment that happens in the manga.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, Roshi and Piccolo's standoff lasts a lot longer in the anime with everything that happens in it.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh a lot of that is just, you know, added.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: The scene of Goku explaining Yajurobi who Korin is as filler.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: Roshi attempting to sell Piccolo lasts a little bit longer, um, with him trying to, you know, trying to get out of it before getting thrown in.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: There's a scene in the manga where Pilaf and his henchmen cheer as Piccolo is summoning Shinron that is excluded.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: A scene of Goku and Yajirobi seeing the sky get dark after uh happened after Piccolo made his wish, but it happens before even Shinron appears.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: In the manga, as Shinron is being summoned, Pilaf says that the dragon is coming, while Mei states that Piccolo will become even stronger than before.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: The anime reverses the lines so that May says Pilaf's line while Pilaf uh says Mei's line.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: Trivia is when King Piccolo pulls the Dragon Balls out of the ground, the seven Dragon Balls appear and float behind him.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: However, in the following scene, only five are seen floating in front of him, and King Piccolo regurgitates the other two.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: This episode marks the first time Masteroshi dies in the series.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: And that's all of the differences in trivia.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: So, Jesse, previously all Dragon Ball.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: Goku continues to get his butt kicked until he is killed for a short amount of time.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh Piccolo is like, well, done with that.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go find the rest of these Dragon Balls.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: Right at the time that Masteroshi is like, well, he has two and he's heading our way, so I guess we could better find a spot to plan something.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: Uh while that's all going on, Goku wakes up because, you know, he's built the stronger stuff and he ain't gonna die like that.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: And so Yajorobi drags him to a river, dunks his head underwater so he can get some water, and then starts to drive uh an obviously sick Goku towards the uh Korrin tower so that he can maybe get some help from Korrin.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: While that's happening, uh Roshi sets up a trick or like a trap for Piccolo, but then Piccolo swallows his Dragon Balls because they were gonna try to steal it from him.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: And then um and uh Roshi square off.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: Roshi does the evil containment wave, but misses the rice cooker and dies.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: And Piccolo steals the dragon ball, makes a wish.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, the dragon's here, what's gonna happen?
5:28
SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
5:29
SPEAKER_02: He hasn't made a wish yet.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: He brings forth the dragon, the dragon is here.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: What wish is he gonna make?
5:34
SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
5:34
SPEAKER_00: And that's what you missed on Dragon Ball, Jesse.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: Go for it.
5:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, I can understand whatever, whichever way it is for the first episode of this, like why it had low ratings or whatnot, because it felt it felt uh skippable.
5:49
SPEAKER_02: Like, it's there there are like three things you know from that episode.
5:53
SPEAKER_02: Goku was pronounced dead prematurely by Piccolo.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: Piccolo gets Goku's Dragon Ball.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: Piccolo leaves and is heading to get their Dragon Balls from Roshi and Friends.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be I'm gonna be 100% straight honest with you, Jesse.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: I did not like these episodes all that much.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: I found them to be boring, they're too transitionary, we don't like there's not enough there's not enough substance in these episodes to make it worth the the 40 minutes that we watched.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: Like the only thing that makes it worth, like, as far as a first time year, because I'm coming at it from that that angle of like first time watching through these episodes, it's important because you get to see how Piccolo wins in a way.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: Like, we haven't even seen him finish winning because they left they left that until next episode, which is like I get it, you're trying to get people to come back next week for the next episode.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, with how much you especially packed into the second episode, you could have had him made the wish and still had like three extra minutes to deal with it with the repercussions immediately of that wish.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: I feel again, I I know we say it this is one of my big complaints when it comes to the some of these episodes like this, is that you could have squeezed them down into one.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: There was a lot there was a lot of extra stuff that you didn't really need.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of extensions of stuff that you didn't need that you didn't have to extend that long, and you could have just cut it down into one, maybe one and a half episodes.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: And I guess if you're if you want to play Devil's Advocate on my avocado.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: Devil's avocado, yeah.
7:28
SPEAKER_02: Avocados from hell.
7:31
SPEAKER_02: But uh but basically he I get why you would want an entire episode to go through the ramifications of what Piccolo's gonna wish for.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like it's not controversial for me to already state like obviously no one's going to steal his wish like Ulong does to Pilov.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: When he wishes for a pair of underwear.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, nobody like a hundred episodes ago.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: The only people who might possibly do it would be it would have to be Chiatsu.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: Because Pilov isn't gonna do it because he will he's afraid of dying.
8:06
SPEAKER_02: Pilov knows that if he does it, he has to get it comp he has to get the wrist completely right.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: And he has to get the wish perfect.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: He has to make the perfect wish because he cannot die.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: He needs two things.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: He needs number one, Piccolo to die, and number two, for him to become all powerful or something, you know?
8:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: And he needs both of that to happen in one wish.
8:26
SPEAKER_02: And then Tien is like seeming seemingly still like 90% paralyzed at this point.
8:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: And then like the only reason why you think Chiatsu's obviously not gonna do it, because he's he's frozen in fear.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: Because he just watch he just watched Roshi die trying to put this man in a rice cooker.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: Which I have problems with his plan too, which we'll get to.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: We're not on the second episode yet.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: But like, like, so it's pretty obvious he's gonna complete the the wish.
8:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:56
SPEAKER_02: And I guess like I guess it makes sense why you would want to have an entire episode dedicated to like probably in the first minute or two, he's gonna make the wish, like almost immediately, he's gonna make the wish next episode.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: And then the rest of the next like 20 some odd minutes of the episode is like, here's what's going down with everybody immediately after this wish is.
10:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like everyone with Bulma and all of them and Yamsha and stuff about them feeling a disturbance in the forest, you know.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: It's like like how Goku feels Roshi die in the second episode.
10:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: Which also that is something I do is like Roshi people die a lot in Dragon Ball and come back.
10:20
SPEAKER_02: So it's not surprising this is the first of many deaths for Roshi.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: As you stated in the first.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: I didn't say how many.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: I just said the first.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: It is the first of many.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: When somebody says the first time and not the all like this is when Roshi dies, you know, like he comes back at some point.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:36
SPEAKER_02: Um for all I know, he comes back when they risk Krin back.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: They rush them both back to life.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so with that, uh, I guess we should jump into these episodes, you know.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: My first note is evil stink beam, because Piccolo's like, time to kill you.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: And he starts and it looks like stink waves are coming off of him to like surround Goku.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: And Goku's like, Don't breathe, don't breathe, don't use your nose.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: No, inhale him with your nose, you'll die.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: I was like, Goku is clearing his mind.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, then he immediately gets shot and oh no, he's dead.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: Yep, pretty much.
11:12
SPEAKER_02: Like uh, Goku Goku goes out pretty sad.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: Which is incredibly not surprising, given what happened in the episode before this.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: Where he was getting his butt kicked.
11:23
SPEAKER_02: And also just kind of how like I know about Goku.
11:28
SPEAKER_02: Like, I know how Goku's character works.
11:30
SPEAKER_02: Like, his entire character design is man literally too stubborn to not get strong enough to win.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: Guy runs into a wall, goes and trains for a bit, comes back and punches the wall.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: And then he finds another wall he can't punch, so he goes and chains to punch that wall.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and comes back and then punches the wall.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: I know that specifically from like the death battles that I've got.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say that's literally your death battle thing.
11:55
SPEAKER_02: It's the death battle between Superman Superman.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: The Superman Goku conundrum of who's who would win in a fight.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: And the one who has no limits or the one who always breaks limits.
12:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like it's like the reason why, like the great the great argument for why Goku can't ever beat Superman is as you said, Superman is one of the f only characters in fiction that like doesn't have a limit to how strong he can get.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: So Goku doesn't have an attainable power level to get above.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: So like no matter how strong Goku gets, Superman is always theorely gonna be stronger than that.
12:33
SPEAKER_02: Just just strong enough to win every time.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: And that's the conundrum with the two characters because they're they're always compared to each other.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: Also because it's an apt comparison when you think about backstories and and even like to a certain extent, like powers.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: Power level.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: It's like they both shoot beams, they both can fly eventually.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, they both are super strong, they both are super fast.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: Like like they they both do a lot of the same stuff.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: They both came from another planet that it that is no longer with us.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: They're the only surviving member of their kind.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: That they go up at the beginning of their series.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they both are raised by loving and nurturing family members who live in the general unknown of the general middle of nowhere.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: Um they're they learn to be good-natured people, and then those those people pass away, and then they gotta go make their own life and the big city.
13:25
SPEAKER_02: Like that's it's it's very similar to exactly they're like, I know that's broad brushes, that's broad strokes, but like generally that is kind of the like Superman is one of the first heroes ever put to print in like any media, any modern media since you know, comic books and stuff like that.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: And Goku in a sort of way is kind of the same thing for Japan.
13:50
SPEAKER_02: I know it's I know I'm coming from a point of like, well, you're just you're just Western Americans.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: But he's the one who like broke through the mainstream.
13:56
SPEAKER_02: He is he is Japan's mainstream superhero, yeah.
14:00
SPEAKER_02: To put it to put it bluntly.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: And you know, Superman is is you know probably second or third on the list of the mainstay mainstream superheroes, you know, with up there with Bat Batman who's in the Spider-Man universe, and Spider-Man who's a Marvel.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, at least for you know, the bulk of their creation histories.
14:18
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, now you could probably put you know, Cap Iron Man, but that's more MCU related than actual printed fiction.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, like uh I don't remember what we were talking about.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: But go Goku Sorry, we get distracted.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: No, you're good.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: Goku is dead at the right after that evil stink beam hits him.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: For like five seconds.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh, and uh piano.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: What we were talking about was that like we oh, it wasn't we'll get back on it.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't surprising that Goku lost the first time because he has to go get stronger to beat him the second time.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: That's this whole thing.
14:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, my favorite one of the notes I wrote down was this wasn't even his final form because piano's like, yeah, once he gets the power up, he's gonna be way stronger than what he was right there.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, way stronger than the guy who's always been kicking our butts?
15:02
SPEAKER_02: Like, uh oh.
15:03
SPEAKER_02: Because he already, like, again, mopped the floor with Goku.
15:08
SPEAKER_02: And so, like, yeah, Pilaf and them are looking at it as like, so you mean to tell me?
15:13
SPEAKER_02: The man that we've never been able to beaten was so thoroughly thrashed by like the weakest version we'll ever see of this guy.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: So we're screwed.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: We're just never gonna rule any part of the world.
15:27
SPEAKER_02: We're just his minions for the rest of our lives.
15:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, the Goku is not dead, though.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: After they fly away, Yajirobi runs over, feels his heartbeat, and is like, let's wake him up, wake him up, go on, Goku, you gotta wake up.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, thirsty.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: Water.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: Water I need it.
15:47
SPEAKER_02: And so Yajurobi runs into a stream and just full-on.
15:52
SPEAKER_02: Uh down dumped him.
15:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:55
SPEAKER_02: Which is the most Yajarobi way to give your friend water.
16:00
SPEAKER_02: Let me just scoop with my hands.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: Let me just shove your face in it and hope you don't drown.
16:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: And then Goku gives him a compliment on his on his um his car.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: Which is I that it's a little bit later on, but we're gonna jump to it for now just to finish the Goku plot.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: Because this is just about the rest of the Goku plot.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: Um they he's like, We need to go to Corn Tower, and Yajorobi's like, I don't know what that is, but like you can point me the way, and he's like, I'm sure we can get there.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: Um and so he's driving, and Goku's like, I love your vehicle, and he's like, Thanks, I stole it.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: It's like, of course you stole it.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: Um and then yeah, he's kind of that's it.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: They just kind of have conversations like who's Piccolo?
16:37
SPEAKER_00: This is what I know.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh what's Korin Tower?
16:40
SPEAKER_00: This is what I know, and let's just keep going.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: And that's Goku from the case.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: Also, Corinne's Corin's a cat, you're gonna love him.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: Korn's a cat, he'll be your best friend eventually.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: You might not like him at first, he's an acquired taste, but you will start to like him.
16:54
SPEAKER_02: So much so that you end up being in a Funko Pop together that we have on our wall.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then jumping back to Piccolo, he um is like, well, I got the two that I need.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: They got the other five, let's go get him.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: Roshi's like, well, crap, what are we gonna do?
17:08
SPEAKER_00: We can't fight him head on, he's way too strong.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: Goku's probably dead right now.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know where he's at.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: It's us three against him, but he's way more powerful than us.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: Tien's like, let's fight him three on one, and Roshi's like, no, that'll never work.
17:21
SPEAKER_02: Roshi, that's you're Tien, I'm gonna be real honest with you.
17:24
SPEAKER_02: Stupid idea.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: Tien, you're an idiot.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, what anybody got a real plan?
17:29
SPEAKER_02: The the ironic part about it is if you just had Tien's help, he probably doesn't miss.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:34
SPEAKER_02: But that's that's that's here in a few minutes.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but also it's like Roshi doesn't let on at all at any point to Tien or anybody else that he knows the evil containment wave.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, um He wants it to be such a surprise that like there's no way Piccolo could have ever heard about this.
17:49
SPEAKER_02: Yes about me knowing this specifics.
17:51
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, Piccolo knows because it's the one thing that beat him the first time.
17:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: So they they Roshi and the gang land in like a barren field um with like some rocks to like keep for cover, for some cover, like some caves type.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: Like a rocky field, I guess.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: But it's like there's no there's no humans around, there's no animals.
18:09
SPEAKER_02: There is no civilization, probably for many miles.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, this is a perfect place to make our stamp.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: So they dig a big hole in the ground, put the dragon balls down there.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: The plan is to get Piccolo to come down, look for the dragon balls, and while he's looking for them, that gives them a chance to steal his, go back and grab theirs, make the wish, and kill them.
18:27
SPEAKER_02: But spoiler alert, Piccolo isn't dumb.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but spoiler alert, Piccolo is not a freaking idiot.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: Because Roshi, I have problems with your plans.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: Roshi, your plans suck.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: Plan A, dig a dig a maybe three-foot hole in the ground and hope Piccolo can't find the dragon balls down there.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: Like, what are we talking about?
18:45
SPEAKER_02: I love that like.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: He'd literally just reach his arm down and go, there they are.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, what are we doing?
18:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:52
SPEAKER_02: And then like, uh, B, the like, he's obviously the smartest person we've ever like fought in this show.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: And even Tien's like, what if he doesn't like bring what if he doesn't bring him down there and it's like, well, I guess I'll just have to go up there and figure it out, you know?
19:08
SPEAKER_00: It's like you didn't think it through at all, Roshi.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: This plan sucks.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: And number one, the hole's like three feet low, deep.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: He could literally just like step down there and be like, found it.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: I got five dragon balls.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: Number two, that he didn't think about the interesting thing, which by the way, like I wouldn't think about that either.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: That's not like my first thought is like, oh, he's gonna eat the dragon balls.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: Like, because number one, like, I I understand he's crazy big and powerful and scary, but like swallowing a dragon ball just to keep it safe.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: Obviously, kind of weird as as the viewers who know that he like regularly regurgitates eggs to birth his minions, probably could have figured out, yeah, you know, he can't adjusting them will probably work.
19:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but you know, Roshi doesn't know that.
19:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because he can do the regurgitating thing.
19:54
SPEAKER_02: All we know about Roshi's interactions with Piccolo is that he got his booty kicked when he was like 25.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: He was disgraced, and then he watched his master kill him.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: He watched his master sacrifice himself to trap him for eternity, as it was supposed to be, and then like um from what I understood, Roshi's the one who threw it in the ocean.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:19
SPEAKER_00: And that's it.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: And then we go back to the the second part of the Roshi plan is oh well he swallowed them.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, okay, well, we didn't think about this, but anyways, the next part of this is I guess I'll just stand down here and make him angry.
20:36
SPEAKER_02: Like, I I don't really know what the Well the next part is Tien's like, we're gonna have to fight him head on.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: And Roshi's like, no, you're not.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: That plan still sucks, Tien.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: You freaking idiot.
20:49
SPEAKER_02: So Rosie pulls out like mustion gas or whatever.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: Like he just knocks him out with like a spray can of chloroform or something.
20:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: Like, and then he goes out and faces him 1v1 himself.
21:03
SPEAKER_02: Though, what he's holding in his back pocket is the evil containment way, but we don't know that yet, because that takes about four minutes of Roshi getting absolutely whooped.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but like plan but plan A failed.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: So plan B is walk out and rage bait him.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: Rage bait the strongest character in the whole universe, but you're just standing there and letting him shoot around you, like being like, He there's no way he'll actually kill me.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: He's gonna want to play with me first.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's not gonna eat his food, he's gonna play with it first.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: And so he just stands out there and Piccolo's like, What is wrong with you?
21:38
SPEAKER_01: I hate ya! Yeah.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: I hate ya.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: And so then then plan C comes out of like or like I guess plan B point two is like, all right, now that he's purposefully angry, now that I've raged him enough.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: Now I'm going to scare him scare him.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: Scare him so deeply that he visibly shakes and hard enough.
22:05
SPEAKER_02: He visibly shakes hard enough for everyone in the airship to start shaking out of fear.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: Because they're like, why is he so scared?
22:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: And then he immediately is like, alright, I'm trying to leave by just like starts to take off as Rosie then launches the wave.
22:19
SPEAKER_02: Which, for being honest, it's a great idea.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: If the rice cooker containment thing was not able to move it off.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: The fact that we're going to be able to do it.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: This is one of those moments.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: And obviously, you know, looking looking back on it, like as you're finished watching the episode, it feels pretty obvious he's going to miss because there's no way they're going to like contain pickle of this quick.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Because then, like, what's going to happen is like Piano and Pilaf and May and Shue are gonna have to like devise a plan to break it open again to release him.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're not gonna waste time doing that.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: Um we already broke it off screen once.
22:59
SPEAKER_02: If we're looking at it, as if we're doing like, you know, I don't know, like screen rant or whatever, and like we're t we're telling you what the problem was here.
23:07
SPEAKER_02: Um you could have had, like, for all honestly, you could have just had like chiatsu.
23:14
SPEAKER_02: If you didn't you if you still wanted to paralyze Tian, you could have had Chiatsu telepathically hold it in place.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: My biggest my biggest problem is you trap him in the in the evil containment wave in the the rice cooker, and now you only have five dragon balls.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is two dragon ball swallows.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: That's the other problem we have to get into.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: It's like if you did succeed, what yeah you got plan A filled.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: Do you not remember he has the Dragon Balls in his belly?
23:42
SPEAKER_00: You can't just like No, because he throws them and the Dragon Balls are still he still has them swallowed.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: I guess like maybe if he hit like it would just regurg he would like naturally have been like like a like a toothpaste tube and regurgitated all of all of his innards out or something.
23:59
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what the plan was here.
24:02
SPEAKER_02: Roshi, I think Roshi's dead forever.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: Like at this point, at this point, I think Roshi's just doing he's like, you know what?
24:10
SPEAKER_02: Screw everyone else.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, if I can save the world and like the only sacrifices is me, Krillin, and like possibly Goku.
24:21
SPEAKER_02: That's still kind of up in the air if he's still alive or not.
24:24
SPEAKER_02: You know what?
24:25
SPEAKER_02: I'll take it.
24:27
SPEAKER_02: Because we still have Tied and Chatsu and Yamcha back home when she, you know, doesn't have a broken leg.
24:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:34
SPEAKER_02: I I guess that's enough people to protect the planet because surely there's no one else that strongest pickle out there that we haven't punched in the face yet.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: Um I guess that's the idea here.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: The thing, the thing with it is, is it's just so frustrating.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: But it's even funnier.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: This is the plan he came up with.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: Because it's like, Roshi.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: Like, plan A is I don't know, maybe he can't look three feet down in a hole.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: And then plan B is well, I guess I'll just trap him, even though plan A failed because he swallowed the dragon balls, and plan B would trap them inside the rice cooker.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: It's like Roshi.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: And then you miss, you you're like, plan B is the only thing we got left, and you miss.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: It's like Roshi.
25:22
SPEAKER_02: It's like, congratulations, you played yourself.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: Congratulations, you did nothing and then died.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: Like, Roshi, come on.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: And I I guess to cut him a little bit of slack, he is facing like his trauma demon fully manifested in human form.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: He's probably not thinking clearly.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: He knows it's a suicide mission going into it, that he's going to loot.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, he's gonna he goes into it knowing he's going to die.
25:46
SPEAKER_02: There are factors absolutely clouding his judgment that we don't get to like see inside of his internal demons.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: But like there are there are reasons why he is.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: He's trying to protect the remaining fighters.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: He's trying to stop the bad guy who wrecked his whole life and has probably, as far as he knows, has killed his two brand new pro two of his best pupils.
26:08
SPEAKER_02: If he hasn't killed Goku, go it's gonna be a while before Goku's usable again.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:13
SPEAKER_02: Like he go Goki's on IR for like two years.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: Trillin is dead.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: Um Yamcha's got a broken leg, so we can't help have him help.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: I've got two people left, and I gotta protect them, and hopefully, the world.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: And at that point, that's all I can do.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, I there's no he can't see past the trees to see the whole forest because he's so caught up with uh this guy is the scariest thing I've ever faced.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: Thought nine is the scariest thing I've ever seen.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: From like, you know, Dark Knight Rises Alfred.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, like I can un I can cut him some slack for that, but listen to some of these other people.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying they could have won if they 3v1 Tim, but they could have maybe gotten the Dragon Balls out of his mouth if they 3v1 him.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: And we know evil containment was.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and you got TN using that tri-beam cannon thing that like I know from future things, and we know from the last fight that like that thing is really freaking powerful.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: Like, hit him with a tribeam cannon and send him 50 feet into the ground.
27:20
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it shortens your lifespan.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: But it doesn't insta kill you.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: Let's let's try a couple tribeam cannons before we go to the death threat.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: It just I I can't get past it.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: That's my main reason for not liking these episodes.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: Despite the fact that they're fluffed to heck, despite the fact you could have made them into one, is that Roshi is like for as much of a wise sage wisdom guardian that we've called him at multiple times, given him his flowers innumerably.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen him do.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, dude, what the heck are you doing?
27:56
SPEAKER_02: And I've seen him try to shrink himself down for fun multiple times.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: And this is dumber.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: This is dumber than that.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: But we gotta get to our best part, Dusty.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: Because after Roshi dies, Piccolo's like, it's time.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: It's time.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: He's like, he's like maniacally laughing, and then he's just it's time.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: And then he just walks away.
28:21
SPEAKER_02: I literally made a joke.
28:23
SPEAKER_02: When I'm getting ready to win the magic game, but they realize I have to poop, is like, it's time.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: I can deny it no longer.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: I must poop.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: I must poop.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that easily is my favorite part of these episodes because I personally did not like these episodes very much, and I would rate them pretty poorly, and I understand why people did not watch them or care to review them very well when they watched them.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: Whatever way that the rating share works, this deserves all of that.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: That first episode does, and the second episode is also not that much better, in my opinion.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: So, Jesse, what is your worst part?
29:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just all the fluff.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, like, it's there's a lot of fluff in this.
29:07
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't mind the Bulma stuff because I had actually made, like, kind of meta it a little bit.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: I had made a thing.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: Because this like the Bulma look happens right at the beginning of the second episode.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: And we had watched the outro and the intro, and Jesse's like, it's kind of strange that like.
29:25
SPEAKER_02: I guess it wasn't strange.
29:26
SPEAKER_02: Like, I was like, I I find it funny that like the outro is still Bulma, because obviously we knew it was supposed to be Bulma for like the rest of the show.
29:32
SPEAKER_02: Like the outsource like the Bulma looking through the window, things raining, right?
29:36
SPEAKER_02: Like, and we haven't seen Bulma in a while, and then like within the first five seconds of the episode, there's Bulmo on our screen.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it did make me chuckle a little bit.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: For me, it's the like they just take everything seems to take a little too long.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Everything takes a long time.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: The f the shooting rays at him takes a little too much.
29:55
SPEAKER_02: The containment wave's probably the one I complain about the least because I'm just saying.
29:58
SPEAKER_02: Because it is like every time we get a new move, they do build it up like that.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but for me, it's just like all like it's one of the that is like everything is just a little too long.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: The stink rays a little too long, Goku meditating for no reason is a little too long.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, like it's just everything is just a little like a few seconds, like two to five seconds too long.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: And those two to five seconds add up to about ten minutes of like you could have shortened this, you know, throughout these episodes.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but you know what I mean.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: You know what we get, yeah.
30:31
SPEAKER_02: It is just it's just a whole lot where it's like you could have had him make like utter the wish, and then like going into the next episode.
30:41
SPEAKER_02: What's gonna happen here?
30:42
SPEAKER_02: Here's the wish, like he utters the wish again, like as a repeat.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: And then you get into it.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: It just for me, like, I agree that that's probably the worst part.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: My worst part is gonna be Roshi's stupid freaking plan.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Roshi's stupid freaking plan.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: It's like what are Roshi, Roshi, what is this plan?
30:59
SPEAKER_00: What are you doing?
31:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, what is this?
31:02
SPEAKER_00: But Jesse, what's your best part?
31:05
SPEAKER_00: What do you got a good best part?
31:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh I I love its time.
31:11
SPEAKER_02: It's time.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: It's time.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:13
SPEAKER_02: It's my best part too.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh honorable mention to Yajirovi just straight up dunking in the water.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: Goku, Goku, need wada.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: That's an honorable mention.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll take it since Jesse wants the its time.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: But that's those two are the only spots in these episodes that I'm like, these are good spots, you know.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: Of course, they're both kind of funny, but like in general, it's just like these are the two good parts, and for my in my opinion.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: Um Jesse, do you want to get into predictions?
31:42
SPEAKER_00: I guess.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Alright, Jesse, your first prediction was Piccolo starts to actually attempt to kill Goku.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, he does a attempt and partially succeeds in killing him.
31:53
SPEAKER_00: But then your next two predictions, Jesse, were Roshi and the gang show up just in time, and Roshi does a move to buy Goku some time to get away.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: What do you those both don't seem like they happened.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: So that's a one for three.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: You want to hear the next two names?
32:11
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: King Piccolo's wish and siege on Chow Castle.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: That's an interesting one.
32:21
SPEAKER_02: Um well obviously King Picc obviously we've already we've already set it up, so I know King Piccolo is making the wish.
32:29
SPEAKER_02: And it's gonna be his wish.
32:30
SPEAKER_02: No one's gonna jump in and steal his wish.
32:33
SPEAKER_02: I do want to bring an honorable mention to it would be really funny if he just became a baby.
32:38
SPEAKER_02: I know he's not going to, just off of those those titles.
32:44
SPEAKER_02: But it would be really much like I wish for eternal youth, and he becomes like a six-year-old child.
32:49
SPEAKER_02: It would be kind of funny.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm right now, it won't happen, but it would be funny if he became a baby.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: Um what about siege on Chow Castle, Jesse?
33:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh well I think there's a siege on Chow.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: A siege by who?
33:05
SPEAKER_00: Siege by Piccolo on Chow Castle.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: Piccolo starts a siege on Chow Castle.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: What do you think there what does Chow Castle ring for you, Jesse?
33:21
SPEAKER_00: What do you think of when you hear the word Chow Castle?
33:26
SPEAKER_00: You got any idea?
33:27
SPEAKER_00: I mean, my best my best guess is maybe it's like Chiatsu's family or something like that.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: Chiatsu's family?
33:34
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I don't know.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, I'm writing it down.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: Some sort of rural family that's doing stuff.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: Okay, alright.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's what we got for your predictions, Jesse.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: So do you have any more notes that you would like to add?
33:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh no, the only note was me joking about him being a baby.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: That was a thing he talked about for about three minutes after the episode was like, and no, it won't happen.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: But it would be hilarious if he just makes that wish in the dragon monkey paws.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, you'll be eternally two years old.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: But from our experience from like the last couple of wishes, he does not dragon paw.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: No, he does not.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: Or he does not monkey paw.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: He does not dragon paw or monkey paw.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he just he he he does exactly what you want him to do.
34:14
SPEAKER_02: It's like I think he can understand the intent all that.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: And also, yeah, I I do think that that's true.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: And also the wishes we've seen so far have been pretty, like one-to-one.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: Straightforward.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: I want the comfiest pair of underwear so he gets the comfiest pair of underwear.
34:31
SPEAKER_00: I want that guy to be alive, so that guy is alive.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: Like those are the two wishes so far.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, he could he could have monkeys pawed and made more like a semi-zombie like pet cemetery thing.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
34:44
SPEAKER_02: No, it's just straight up boar.
34:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: I guess.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, thank you guys for listening.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, this has been Becoming Saiyans, a Dragon Ball Rewatch podcast.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: Love to have you guys down the subscribe rate review, leave us a five star rating.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: You can also reach out to us at becoming sayans at gmail.com or follow us on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at BecomingSaians Pod.
35:06
SPEAKER_00: And until next week, I've been Truman.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: And I've been Jesse.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: And the journey continues.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: Bye.