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Faith That Holds Through A Lifetime of Suffering, With Hillary Ferrer · True Comfort

• Teasi Cannon (00:01) I'm TC and I want to welcome you to true comfort where it's our desire to live out 2nd Corinthians chapter 1 verses 3 and 4 which assure us that we have a God who comforts us in all our afflictions and encourage us to share the comfort that we've received with others who need it and I want to welcome my guest my friend ⁓ and just someone I absolutely look up to and have learned so much from Hillary Ferrer Hillary, thank you so much for being here today. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (00:32) Thank you for having me. And that's interesting that that's the verse. I didn't know that was the verse that this is based on. People always ask me what my life verse is. And for some reason, I can never remember the location, but that's it. We comfort others with the comfort we ourselves have received. feel like that verse right there has marked what the Lord has done with me, I would say. Teasi Cannon (00:53) I love it. Perfect. Well, I want to read, I'm going to read your official bio because I don't want to mess up some of this, but I know this is abbreviated too, because you've done so much. But so Hillary is the founder and president of Mama Bear Apologetics, which really seeks to provide accessible apologetics materials for busy moms. And she is the chief editor and main author of several books, including the bestselling ⁓ First book from Mama Bear, Mama Bear Apologetics, Empowering Your Kids to Challenge Cultural Lies, Mama Bear Apologetics Guide to Sexuality, Empowering Your Kids to Understand and Live Out God's Design, and Honest Prayers for Mama Bears. And two of the books, the first two, they include ⁓ study guides, which are really great resources. ⁓ Hillary has her master's degree in biology. She loves helping moms discern truth. and lies in both science and ⁓ culture. And she and her husband, John, have been married for 18 years. They minister together as a powerhouse apologetics team, I will say. ⁓ And she also has, this is a funny part of her bio, but it's, I've heard it. I know it's true. She can't sneak up on anyone because she has her hiccups, which can just occasionally appear ⁓ when they feel like it. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (02:14) Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Teasi Cannon (02:18) So I also just wanted to add on a personal note, some things that I appreciate about Hillary. ⁓ So Hillary, you took a big chance on allowing me, inviting me to participate as one of the contributing authors in the first Mama Bear apologetics book, which felt like winning the lottery to me. ⁓ You didn't know me, you'd never met me. I think you just took the word of a couple of people who suggested me as an option. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (02:23) No. Mm-hmm. Teasi Cannon (02:48) And I was, this was at a time when, it was just like a year after I had gone through ⁓ excruciating pain from spiritual abuse. So I was just barely healing and looking for like how to rebuild my whole life. And then you came along and God used you in such a sweet way to offer me this opportunity to do something life-giving. And I was just felt so honored. to be a part of it. And then you continued to give me opportunities to, like I helped with some of the study guides and just here and there you would reach out and like just give me an opportunity. Yeah, and I want to also just say, ⁓ I appreciate your grace because over the last seven years, feel like, I mean, continually I'm healing from things. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (03:28) You're one of our founding board members. Teasi Cannon (03:42) but there have been moments when my head was way more ready to jump into something and my heart just wasn't there yet. And I would call and say, I don't think I can do this. I feel like, you know, it's just the weirdest thing, Hillary. It's like, I'm almost 57 years old, but there are times in my healing journey when on the inside, still felt like, I still can feel like a 13 year old. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (04:05) Yeah. Teasi Cannon (04:06) you still have the same, you know, I've had the same insecurities, the same self doubt, and you've always been so gracious. And I just wanna thank you so much for that. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (04:14) I've always, I loved having you part of that project. And it really is funny that it's like, yeah, I think it was Elisa that said, hey, I've got this friend that can do this. And I trusted her voice and you lent so much to that book. And you've like turned into part of my writing process just because you have a tendency to, you can see things that I don't see and you're willing to speak up. So I really value that in you. Teasi Cannon (04:27) Thank you. ⁓ thank you. Well, it's been an honor and a privilege and I highly recommend all the Mama Bear books and resources. They truly are. I mean, and for everybody, not just moms, but anyone that works with youth, ⁓ anyone just wanting to figure out how to kind of chew up and spit out parts of what our culture is ⁓ sending our way, different ideologies, ideas. I like the approach of being able to recognize what is valuable, what is enticing or what makes people actually drawn to some of the false ideas in our culture. Because if they were all just yucky lies, no one would be at all drawn to them. So it's nice to be able to kind of see a safe place to go, yeah, that did sound pretty nice, but here's where it falls short. And Mama Bear does such a great job of helping people sort through all of that in a great process. But ⁓ I thought before we get to kind of the main heart of our conversation, I would just ask you, ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (05:17) Yeah. Teasi Cannon (05:37) to share what led you, what got you started studying apologetics in your journey. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (05:44) So it was kind of introduced to me when I was 12. And so my pastor kind of has a story sort of like some of the other ⁓ apologists where he was an atheist and he decided, well, by golly, I just need to put this to rest once and for all as a stupid. And so he did all his own research and came out, holy cow, this is true. And so ⁓ he really brought all of his questions into his pastorate. and I always appreciate that. It's like he had a tendency to answer questions before you even realized that was a question. But when I was 12, he did a series on apologetics. So he did the Liar Lord Lunatic series, the trilemma of who was Jesus. He did a series on the resurrection where he literally spent an entire sermon for each individual ⁓ alternate explanation that skeptics have given for the resurrection. I just went through it and said, this doesn't make sense, or it makes more sense for, you know, or it just takes just as much faith to believe this as it does that Jesus rose. I know, like when I was in college in grad school and I did my paper on the resurrection, I said, you're left with a miracle. It's either the miraculous of Jesus rising from the dead or like this miraculous stupidity that people, nobody could find the tomb, you know. Teasi Cannon (06:50) Right. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (07:05) It's like that really is a miraculous level of stupidity that like all of history would be divided because all these people couldn't find a tomb. And then, you know, and then the miraculous of the swoon theory or the hallucination theory, all of them, you're left with these miracles that everybody hallucinated the same thing anyway. So he went through all that. ⁓ And then finally, he ended on the reliability of the New Testament documents. And I just remember my little 12 year old hands scribbling and scribbling and scribbling. And I thought, Teasi Cannon (07:05) Yeah. Thank Right. Right. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (07:34) ⁓ I love this. Like, I'd always been interested in church. I'd always loved going to church and interested in the things of God. But that was the first time that I realized this is something that I could talk about with people who didn't believe. It's not just something that, ⁓ you know, I believe because people told me. This is like, I kind of joke about it's when I went from, you know, this is true because I was told it was true to this is for reals true. ⁓ Teasi Cannon (07:56) you Hillary Morgan Ferrer (07:59) And I would say even now, even with whatever studying that I've done on my own, my mind always goes back to those sermons and goes back to the feelings that I had at that time, knowing that doesn't make sense, that doesn't make sense, that doesn't make sense. This has to be true. All the other theories fall flat. yeah, so ⁓ I did papers, you I'd asked to do papers when I was in high school. Teasi Cannon (08:17) Mm. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (08:26) I had a friend of mine who sent me this. She was clearing out a bunch of stuff. ⁓ And she found these Bible studies that I did, I think right after I graduated from high school. Then I came back and I was teaching apologetics to the high school girls. And you know, it's got like picture, you know, clip art of Goofy on it with Hillary's awesome Bible study. And it's all talking about, you know, the exact things that happened during a crucifixion. Teasi Cannon (08:35) Wow. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (08:51) and all the different things. I thought, wow, I really did this from the time that I can remember. It's been something I've been passionate about. And I think I forgot about it for a while when I was in college, because there was nobody else that was really interested in that. So I kind of just didn't think about it that much until I met my husband again. And he was finishing his M.Div from Southern Evangelical in apologetics. And that just... ignited the whole thing again of, my gosh, this is someone who's passionate about is the thing that I've always loved. And I always thought I was going to be the little woman behind the scenes in his ministry. No clue what God had planned for me in my own ministry and the way he supported that. And so now, thanks be to God, we both work full time in apologetics ministry. So Teasi Cannon (09:30) life. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (09:43) We always joke about that our pillow talk is a bit different than other people's. And I think we had Julie Lose with us when we were coming back from Focus on the Family the other day. And she was listening to us bicker back and forth about like, ⁓ just distinguishing between, you know, categories of spiritual authority and stuff like that of, you know, just some kind of theological topic. And I remember stopping in the middle of it and turning around to her. And I was like, welcome to our our table time discussions. And she's like, I'm loving it. Keep going. Teasi Cannon (09:46) Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (10:11) ⁓ So yeah, so that's, I guess that's where all my apologetics comes in. Teasi Cannon (10:14) Wow, I wish that youth group, youth today could have that because what a huge boost, right? Before going into middle school, you're probably right in middle school. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (10:24) Mm-hmm. Teasi Cannon (10:26) then going into high school. And then of course you mentioned, it wasn't at the forefront of your mind, but those seeds were planted in your life at such a young age. And then as soon as you met your husband, it was like a latent language just re-emerged and you just began using it again. And I know that what I love is God had plans even back then knowing that you were going to use what you studied, what you learned to be a blessing to so many. And Hillary Morgan Ferrer (10:31) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Teasi Cannon (10:56) One thing that I know about you is that you have lived, your faith has been tested in your personal life. And that brings me to the heart of our conversation today. So my goal in this podcast is that in each episode, I want to invite an apologist to share with us from their own life about a time when Hillary Morgan Ferrer (11:05) Yeah. Teasi Cannon (11:23) they experienced some sort of heartbreak or confusion. It could be something ongoing, just a struggle. Also to share with us where they find comfort in God's word or in the biblical worldview. And then the beauty of how that can be substantiated if there's ever any doubt how God's promises ⁓ don't fail or when we're tempted to doubt them how evidence that we've studied in the field of apologetics, which is just I've mentioned this before, but just to repeat for those who might not know, apologetics is just studying the reasons for what we believe. We know what we believe and why do we believe it? And my hope is that these conversations will show listeners that no one's alone. We're not alone in our pain, but it will also give everyone confidence to ⁓ know that they can trust God's promises, that God's promises aren't empty. and they are trustworthy and true and that we will not lose sight of Jesus, that we will hold fast to the truth and the faith that has been delivered to us. So that is my heart for this and that's why I've invited you to come, Hillary, because I know that you have been through some very, very hard times. And I know one of those constant struggles has been your health journey. You have been in I think the entire time that you've been in ministry ever since I've known you you've you have navigated some Really serious health issues and so I I don't know what else you might want to share But I'd love for you to share a little bit about that at least and what that's been like Yeah, tell us tell us what you've been through Hillary Morgan Ferrer (13:06) So my health stuff started when I was young. It's like my mom always says that ⁓ they classified me as failure to thrive. So I don't know exactly what was going on. It's probably, I think a lot of stuff I have. I've had since birth that they just didn't know about it. I always had a lot less energy than other, well, and sometimes I had a lot more energy than other kids, but I always needed a lot more sleep. I got sick a lot more. ⁓ I was always gone the max number of days that you could be gone. fact, my schools a lot of times had to make special permission for me to actually pass me along ⁓ because I missed so many days being sick, but because I also had straight A's. And I was a very, very good student. I was very diligent. ⁓ So, sometime in my... Half of my high school was spent basically like a whole two-year stint of just being nauseous. all the time. I was constantly in fear of throwing up in front of my peers because everybody remembers the kid who threw up in school. ⁓ I literally passed out twice and had to get carted away by the paramedics because that was preferable to publicly barfing in front of people. ⁓ And I went to doctor after doctor and they diagnosed me with so many different things. They even sent me to counselors and even said she has a subconscious eating disorder and she's making herself nauseous. Teasi Cannon (14:13) Wow, ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (14:31) I was so painfully thin, it wasn't the cool kind of thin. And they finally discovered that I had a kidney disease. So the kidney disease is something that I still currently deal with. My function has just kind of gotten lower and lower. So I only have about 30 % function in my kidneys. Most people don't understand what that means. I had my brother-in-law's mother, once she started getting into her 70s, her... Teasi Cannon (14:37) And they finally discovered that I had a kidney disease. the kidney disease is something that I still currently deal with. My function has just kind of gotten lower and lower. So I only have about 30 % function in my kidneys. Most people don't understand what that means. I had my brother-in-law's mother, once she started getting into her 70s, her Hillary Morgan Ferrer (14:59) her kidney function started getting down to about where mine was. And Teasi Cannon (14:59) kidney function started getting down to about where mine was. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (15:02) she finally said, my gosh, you felt like this the whole time. How are you even standing up right? I'm like, well, you know, by God's grace, it's just one of those, it's this level of fatigue and tired that you can't understand unless you've been through it. ⁓ So ⁓ later on, I guess, in my 20s, like right after John and I got married, we had every single possible thing and the kitchen sink thrown at us that you can have happen in marriage in this, we had, you know, we moved across the country to get married so that he could start his PhD program. I started a business ⁓ and then I promptly got cancer. And so even with the idea of having children, it's like that was my, my, my childbearing years were pretty much taken up with a ⁓ really, really invasive cancer, thankfully, because it was in my intestines. It wasn't stage four. If it had been anywhere else, it would have been stage four. But because it was growing to different part of the small intestine, it counted as being the same the same organ, which classified it lower. I had about seven months of chemo from that. I wasn't able to work. And basically, after that, I was never quite the same. always had I lost a lot of muscle. ⁓ And I kept trying to do jobs. felt John wasn't able to get work as a professor. All the jobs for professors kind of disappeared right around that time once everybody started hiring adjuncts. So 2008, all of a sudden, everybody switched to adjuncts instead of full-time professors. so it was just a struggle. We were very much living hand to mouth. And my parents helped out a lot. Teasi Cannon (16:24) And I kept trying to do jobs. John wasn't able to get work as a professor. All the jobs for professors kind of disappeared right around that time once everybody started hiring adjuncts. So 2008, all of a sudden, everybody switched to adjuncts instead of full-time professors. And so it was just a struggle. We were very much living hand-to-mouth. And my parents helped us. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (16:54) And I was just always so frustrated because I could not hold ⁓ down a full-time job. The one time that I really tried the full-time job thing, I ended up with cancer at the end. ⁓ So it's interesting how I look back at so many different kind of careers that I started to have. One was as an athletic trainer. Back when I was in college, I wanted to work with athletes. And so I did that, but I would get so sick that... Teasi Cannon (16:54) And I was just always so frustrated because I could not hold down a full-time job. The one time that I really tried the full-time job thing, I ended up with cancer at the end. So it's interesting how I look back at so many different kind of careers that I started to have. As an athletic trainer, back when I was in college, I wanted to work with athletes. And so I did that. But I would get so sick that. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (17:22) Yeah, I could barely function sometimes. I was a photographer. wanted to work in, I lived in LA and I wanted to work kind of in the entertainment industry as a photographer. But the kind of hours that you had to do for long periods of time, I could handle it for so long until I would get sick. And so I just, I felt like I had all this potential. Like there was all these things that I could do. I was always told, you know, that I was smart and I had this potential. And I thought, oh my gosh, I, Teasi Cannon (17:41) until I would get sick. And so I just, I felt like I had all this potential. Like there was all these things that I could do. I was always told, you know, that I was smart and I had this potential and I thought, oh my gosh, I, Hillary Morgan Ferrer (17:53) But I can't do what other people do. can't work. It was very depressing. And then when it came time to have kids, I couldn't do that either because we were constantly saying, we're not sure if the cancer is going to come back. And frankly, my husband was having to take care of me so much of the time that Teasi Cannon (17:53) but I can't, I can't do what other people do. I can't, I can't work. can't, it just, was very depressing. And then when it came time to have kids, couldn't do that either because we were constantly saying, we're not sure if the cancer is going to come back. And frankly, my husband was having to take care of me so much of the time that it, Hillary Morgan Ferrer (18:11) having a child would mean he would have to take care of me and the child on top of what he was already doing. And it just didn't make sense. ⁓ So I guess what's been going on recently. So in 2021, I had another bout and this is when I just finished the first, the sexuality book and I was on a crazy deadline and I literally worked myself almost to death on that. Ended up having to have a procedure called the Whipple Procedure where they split you open from like here to here and cut out your Teasi Cannon (18:38) Wow. ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (18:47) It's basically the beginning stages of pancreatic cancer. This is the surgery they do for pancreatic cancer and they have to take out part of your stomach and part of your pancreas and your gallbladder and a large part of your intestines. And the part of my intestines that they took out are the part that absorbs some of the electrolytes that I already am low in. like, Teasi Cannon (19:08) Wow Wow ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (19:08) fun fact, I take as much potassium per day. I take more potassium per day than what they give through injection for the death penalty. ⁓ So whenever people are like, can't you just eat bananas? It's like, no. And just because of the way I was bed bound during that, I've lost so much of my mobility and so much of my abilities that I didn't even know if I was gonna be able to continue in the ministry. I remember the first speaking engagement that I did after, being basically bedridden for a year from that surgery. And John and I knew that this is gonna be a test. Can I even handle this? ⁓ And so the night before I was up until about three in the morning with this crippling pain in my stomach. So for years I was still having these, they're called a whipple attacks where you just have this crippling pain that I couldn't predict and I didn't know it was coming. ⁓ Teasi Cannon (20:07) Wow. ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (20:12) And then every single time when I would get up to speak, it's like God would just show up. And that I would say throughout all of this, I have learned to depend on God so much more than I ever did. Just because I know for a fact, cannot do anything that I'm doing without him. I feel like I'm rambling. Teasi Cannon (20:38) No, it's great. I do want to just I'm sitting here just going my goodness like any one of the things that you just mentioned any one of them could really dev I mean they're all devastating that you just talked about four or five major devastating things and I guess what I was thinking along the way is I couldn't help but just think about how God gave you the gift of apologetics at such a young age, that it was, you were exposed to it in such a very thoughtful way ⁓ that it really, those seeds were planted really well. But I would love to just before you go on, I'd like to know all throughout all those seasons, Hillary Morgan Ferrer (21:14) Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Teasi Cannon (21:33) What did you feel about God and his love for you? Did you ever wonder, what did I do to you? What did I ever do to you, Because, like what? I'm wondering what kind of, I know, because I was just sitting here thinking, what kind of thought processes would I have to have been just navigating, including lies about myself, lies about God's character? Hillary Morgan Ferrer (21:42) Yeah I must have made him real mad. Teasi Cannon (22:01) share some of that. I know it's been years of it so what is kind of the recurring thing that may be the biggest lies that you have to fight when they come back time after time through all of those different ⁓ hard things? Hillary Morgan Ferrer (22:05) Yeah. Yeah, so there's something that I like to say whenever I'm talking kind of about my story to people, because I like to tell my story in the sense that I want parents to understand why apologetics is so important, and it's because of this. And this is how I purposely phrase it. Faith in Jesus Christ saved my life, but apologetics saved my faith. Teasi Cannon (22:36) I love it. That's so well said. right. Yeah. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (22:39) And so, because it's like, can't say apologetics saved my life because it didn't. It's Christ who has saved my life, but apologetics has saved my faith in Christ. ⁓ Because I felt from an early, from when the pastor went through those evidences, I thought, holy cow, I would have to check my brain at the door in order to walk away from Christianity. I would have to pretend that I didn't know what I know. And I would have to say, Teasi Cannon (22:59) in order to walk away from Christianity. would have to pretend that I didn't know what I know and I would have to say, you know, I don't care about truth. I'm just going to do my own thing. if there is anything I was born with, it's this intense desire to know truth. I would rather people tell me that I'm wrong. You know that I seek out what I'm asking people. Tell me if I'm wrong. Find anything that's wrong in here. Because I would rather... Hillary Morgan Ferrer (23:07) you know, I don't care about truth. I'm just going to do my own thing. And if there's anything I was born with, it's this intense desire to know truth. I would rather people tell me that I'm wrong. And you know that I seek out when I'm asking people, tell me if I'm wrong, find anything that's wrong in here, because I would rather have someone tell me that I'm wrong than think that I'm right and just, you know, and actually be wrong. Like truth matters to me. And that's one of the things that my husband Teasi Cannon (23:26) Yeah, yeah. ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (23:36) he says that he married me for. And so because I feel so strongly that this is the truth, I can't walk away from it. And it's not really this idea of that it's working for me. I think I got rid of that a long time ago. never, because it's true, it never mattered to me whether it worked or not. ⁓ My sister is... was very different than I was. She was just born with this real beautiful childlike faith that just never questioned anything. And what I didn't add in there is after our first book, ⁓ when I turned it in, I was praying that whole time that I would finish that so that I could get home in time before she died. So she had a similar cancer. ⁓ in her, hers was in the large intestine instead of the small intestine, but because it was in the large intestine, it meant that it spread, it did become stage four. ⁓ And so I worked myself to death on that first book and immediately high tailed at home and basically for the next two months walked with her day after day as she died. And it was probably one of the most traumatic things that I've ever witnessed because... ⁓ Teasi Cannon (24:40) day after day as she died and it was probably one the most traumatic things that I've ever witnessed because Hillary Morgan Ferrer (24:47) It was, if you've ever seen the kind of weight loss from like ⁓ Holocaust videos, that's kind of what she looked like. I was watching someone that I love starve to death and having to put a brave face on it. And at the same time, this is kind of a funny one. This is where I was like, Lord, you just, you had to break me, didn't you? ⁓ Teasi Cannon (24:47) it was, if you've ever seen the kind of weight loss from like holocaust videos, ⁓ that's kind of what she looked like. I was watching someone that I loved starve to death and having to put a brave face on it and at the same time, this is kind of a funny one, this is where I'm like, Lord, you just, you had to break me, didn't you? Hillary Morgan Ferrer (25:09) I broke a rib during that time. And so it hurt to sneeze and I was in Texas. ⁓ Teasi Cannon (25:10) I broke a rib during that time. Hillary, my gosh. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (25:17) And it absolutely leveled me. But at the same time, I think the Lord did that because I had a lot of healing, some personal healing that I'd been sweeping under the rug for years that I felt him saying, you need to get your house in order before this book comes out. And I'm glad he did because we did not expect the book to do what it did. It's become a bit of a phenomenon. ⁓ The Lord has also blessed me with the ability to see in hindsight where he's been working. And I would say that's one of the number one things that keeps me going. And this is something that he kind of taught me to do since high school. So back in high school, I also, I had about 20 years in there that I really struggled with depression. And even now I think that depression in my health is very much related in the sense that sometimes I'm not sure which one it is. Do I feel sick or am I depressed? Because it's like on the days that I feel sick, I also feel depressed. Teasi Cannon (25:47) ⁓ Right. ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (26:16) Back then it was like it was like both it was both healthy and non-healthy that I felt depressed and the Lord just thankfully walked me out of that but there I remember there was a girl back when I was a camp counselor that was in my cabin for four years and we never like really connected and the fourth year that she was in my cabin was the year that the depression hit really hard and I remember doing a speech Teasi Cannon (26:41) And I remember doing a speech at the beginning of each week with the girls saying, hey, look, I know your previous counselor's wife said this is what they've been through and this is where God took them. I just need to tell you this is what I'm going through right now. And you're probably going to see me cry and you're probably going to see me sad, but I don't want you to worry. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (26:44) at beginning of each week with the girls saying, hey, look, you know, know your previous counselors might've said this is what they've been through and this is where God took them. I just need to tell you, this is what I'm going through right now. And you're probably gonna see me cry and you're probably gonna see me sad, but I don't want you to worry because God is still with me through that. And I had her come to me that night in tears and say, I feel like that all the time. Teasi Cannon (27:01) ⁓ Wow ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (27:14) And I realized that this girl, because she was like one of those really, really pretty, really, really mean girls that, you know, you did not want to get on her bad side. And I thought, my gosh, for the first time I saw how God used something that I hated to actually Teasi Cannon (27:31) Wow. ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (27:31) connect with someone and provide an opening for ministry. And I remember thinking at that moment, if I had to pick whether or not to go through all this depression, and be able to reach her or not go through the depression and not reach her, I would pick the depression because it mattered to me to be able to minister. And that lesson that I learned, I've been able to take with me on everything. am constantly looking for what am I learning through this? What is God doing through this? And I can even look back at all the health stuff and see how career-wise I consider my health stuff to be his rod and his staff. ⁓ He... Teasi Cannon (28:09) Wow. Wow. ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (28:10) moved me out of different jobs that I shouldn't have been at. He moved me away from different schools that he didn't want me at. He used health stuff as his rawness stuff. And I can truly say at this point that even though I don't like it, ⁓ right now I'm going to a bunch of different functional medicine doctors. Sometimes I will sleep for 30 hours at a time. I will literally skip an entire day. ⁓ feel guilty because John does everything around the house and he's constantly taking care of me. can't travel without him. I don't think most people know how dependent I am on him that he guesstimates that I have maybe four good hours a day. ⁓ Sometimes those will all be lumped at the beginning of the week and then I'll have to like basically sleep for a week. But at the same time, I have learned that this is his run, his staff. Teasi Cannon (28:36) Wow. ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (29:04) and I see the way he has used it to keep me ⁓ dependent on him, not in an abusive kind of way, but it's more like that he can do so much more than I can. And because I value seeing people understand who God is and understanding the Bible and coming to love him more, when I see that power being released and it requires a little bit of pain and tiredness on my part, man, ⁓ I can take joy. That is what Teasi Cannon (29:31) take joy. That is what Hillary Morgan Ferrer (29:33) Peter talks about when he says, count it all joy when you face trials of various kinds, for we know that the development of your faith is developing perseverance and perseverance must finish it. And he goes into all the things that it's developing. I think when Teasi Cannon (29:33) Peter talks about when says, count it all joy when you face trials of various kinds. When you know that the development of your faith is developing perseverance, and perseverance must finish it. And he can do all the things that it's developing. I think when we have when we desire the things that God desires, we can take joy in the suffering because if we see what he's doing with it. If I felt like there was nothing happening from this, think I would be very, very bitter. Yeah. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (29:48) we desire the things that God desires, we can take joy in the suffering because we see what he's doing with it. If I felt like there was nothing happening from this, I think I would be very, very bitter. ⁓ And in fact, I still even have thoughts about, you know, questioning, you know, is this right? ⁓ Teasi Cannon (30:02) And in fact, I still even have thoughts about questioning, and is this right? Hillary Morgan Ferrer (30:11) That plague me sometimes. I'll say most recently, I've been really, really digging into prayer because it's been one of those things where on days where I literally can't get up, I think, you know what, I can listen to scripture. I can lay in bed all day while listening to scripture. And if that's all I can do, then that's a productive day. Teasi Cannon (30:11) Yeah. ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (30:28) And now I've progressed to where not just having to listen to scripture, but I can pray. And if all I can do is pray, then that's been a productive day. And that's when the enemy starts attacking my mind with, Teasi Cannon (30:40) you know, how do know this is real? You might just be talking to yourself. Do really want to look back at your Hillary Morgan Ferrer (30:40) know, how do know this is real? You might just be talking to yourself. Do you really want to look back at your life? And when you discover that there is no God, that you were just talking to yourself the whole time, this is placebo effect. If you think that you're talking to someone, all the different things. Teasi Cannon (30:53) I think that is so important what you just said because you know listening to you Chronicle all the things that you've been through and then you add on things like and my sister You know, I got a broken rib while I was walking my sister home I mean this is stuff that you know again It's like one thing after the other after the other and you're I know now because you're able to look at the whole and you're looking at it through the biblical worldview, the lens of a biblical worldview and also. You've seen the faithfulness of God. I know that from what I've heard from you before and also from what you've just shared. it's sometimes easy for us to look back and kind of list things and kind of go, and then I know this and this, but you just also shared something I think that's so important for listeners just to know, is that you also grapple with doubt. You know what God's word says. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (31:48) Mm-hmm. Teasi Cannon (31:52) that you can consider it all joy, that you can, know, that God, and we know that God doesn't call bad things good, but he uses bad things for good. And you've talked about how he's used that in your life to correct and to heal and to bring to your mind things, you know, wounds that maybe you didn't know you had emotionally and in the midst of it, how he's redeemed these things. But I think... It's very comforting to people to know that even though you're able to treasure hunt all of this. I think just so that we know we're not alone, because we can hear someone with real strength and think, man, I don't feel that strong, but you're talking about times when you struggle. I'm wondering, like one thing I am curious about is have you ever, do you ever wonder why? And I know why is one of these questions we quickly learn to just quit asking because we might not ever get it. But I mean, when you look at all of the things you've been through, Hillary Morgan Ferrer (32:48) you Teasi Cannon (32:55) What is, tell us maybe if you want to, what is the biggest lie or one of the biggest doubts that kind of plagues you in the midst of all of this? Hillary Morgan Ferrer (33:05) I can actually, that's funny that you should ask because I actually made a list on a day that I was really feeling sick. ⁓ And I told John, I need you to see what I'm going through here. Okay, here we go. This is a note on my phone that's titled lies I hear when I don't feel well. Because I remember just feeling sick. So it's one of those weird things that when I feel sick, when I feel tired, I can't remember what it's like to Teasi Cannon (33:27) Great. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (33:35) to have energy. It's like, so it's not even just that I'm there. It's like there and whatever files of happiness and joy and energy and other things, it's like, I can't access them. And I know that I have joy at other times and I know that I'm happy at other times and I know that I love my life and I know that I love my job, but I can't picture it. So I decided to put down all the lies that I hear when I don't feel well. So here it is, you should give up writing. If you didn't have any ministry, you could just be sick like this all the time and nobody depending on you. You could be a better wife if you just stop this ministry thing. You could do more ministry here at home in Pella if you gave up Mama Bear. The only reason you have a platform is because someone gave it to you. You don't actually have anything to say. You have good thoughts, but so does everyone else. So you don't have enough to actually turn them into a book. If you stop ministry, you wouldn't have to worry about which days you felt sick and which days you didn't. or you're only acting sick to keep yourself from doing the things that you don't want to do, like the dishes. If you got healthy, then you'd have to do all that stuff that you don't want to do, dishes and laundry that John does. If you got healthy, then you'd be just as tired because all the things you don't have to do while you're sick would just pile up and you'd just be twice as busy with stuff and nothing else to show for it. ⁓ So it's like, it'll be lies about all the things I should give up and then lies about why I don't even want to be healthy. And I'm like, Teasi Cannon (34:42) you got healthy, then you'd be just as tired because all the things you don't have to do while you're sick would just pile up and you'd just be twice as busy with stuff and nothing else to show for it. So it's like, it'll be lies about all the things I should give up and then lies about why I don't even want to be healthy. And I'm like, Hillary Morgan Ferrer (34:58) When I sat there and typed it up, was like, this is fascinating. Teasi Cannon (34:58) when I sat there and typed it up, I was like, this is... Hillary Morgan Ferrer (35:01) These were really the things that were coming in my mind, which really kind of shows us what spiritual warfare looks like. Teasi Cannon (35:08) Yeah, it breaks my heart Hillary like I Honestly as you were reading that like even now I just feel like you know, it just breaks my heart because the enemy is just ruthless and You know, I really appreciate you being honest about that. I think that's gonna be so helpful. It's helpful for me I mean the lies that we we hear they're just they're horrible and shaming and condemning and debilitating and walking through that in the midst of major physical pain is not easy. And so tell like, let's say you're in the midst of that. What does your process usually look like? Does it take you a while to... battle that out, shut that voice down, or do you have to wait till you feel physically better, or how do you just navigate it in the midst of the barrage of all of those lies? Hillary Morgan Ferrer (36:06) Yeah, so luckily I have a husband who, I mean it took him a long time to really learn what I was capable of and what I couldn't because at beginning of our marriage he would kind of push me to do things and then I kept ending up in the hospital and he's like, maybe I shouldn't do that. So he kind of had to learn the hard way that he doesn't, it's not a good idea to encourage me to get up if I've been sleeping too much. He praises me firstly, he's like, good, get that sleep. Teasi Cannon (36:19) gosh. Wow, that's great. ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (36:33) And so, but one of the things he always says to me to encourage me is you lead through your weaknesses more than your strengths. And that is why, that is why he, I don't want to say the praises that he sings about me, but he sings my praises at that point, you know, just to encourage me ⁓ that it's true. A lot of times I do lead through my weaknesses. don't, I don't share or I don't keep my struggles to myself. If someone asks me, I'll tell them exactly what's going on. I'm not shy about it. Teasi Cannon (36:47) But he sings my praises at that point, just to encourage me. Then it's true, a lot of times I do leak through my weaknesses. don't share, or I don't keep my struggles to myself. If someone asks me, I'll tell them exactly what's going on. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (37:03) The process at this point, I had this really weird aha moment the other day where I'll be sitting here, I mean, practically drooling on myself in a complete brain fog, not able to move, telling myself that I have this list of things I need to do. And I had this really interesting thought a couple of weeks ago. I thought, what would Jesus do if he felt like this? And my first thought was he would take a nap. He would go to bed. And so that was, I don't know why that was rocket science. Jesus would go to bed if he felt like this. So I was like, ⁓ okay. And at that point I started learning, I'm just gonna get in bed. I'm gonna put on scripture. I'm not gonna binge watch and like, you know, look at Instagram and do it and all the things. That's a day wasted when I get into like, you know, what sometimes I'm too tired to even watch TV, but like, you know, looking at stuff on Instagram, that to me is an unproductive day, a productive day. Teasi Cannon (37:39) ⁓ Right Hillary Morgan Ferrer (37:58) could be an entire day sleeping with scripture on. And so then I'll wake up and all of sudden it's like, wow, I can get stuff done now. ⁓ So it's really like I just have to wait it out. And I actually have done kind of a similar thing with this, because it's like, wanted myself to be able to see the kinds of barrages that I was getting when I was sick. But I remember one day when I was working on one of the books, having a great day, and I thought, I need to write a letter to myself. Teasi Cannon (38:04) Yeah. day and I thought I need to write a letter to myself Hillary Morgan Ferrer (38:25) And so I actually wrote a letter to myself telling myself how much I loved being able to study scripture and be able to just think and put things into words and like how much I loved what I did and loved hearing feedback from people Teasi Cannon (38:25) and so I actually wrote a letter to myself telling myself how much I loved being able to study scripture and be able to just think and put things into words how much I loved what I did and loved hearing feedback from people Hillary Morgan Ferrer (38:40) and encouraging myself to keep going and that it's not always going to be, you know, those days that when I'm feeling sick and I can't remember what it's like to feel well, this is what it's like to feel well and just, you know, something to remind myself. So that's kind of one of the things that I do. Teasi Cannon (38:40) and encouraging myself to keep going and that it's not always going to be, you know, those days that when I'm feeling sick and I can't remember what it's like to feel well, this is what it's like to feel well and just, you know, something to remind myself. So that's kind of one of the things that I do. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (38:55) It's been a long time that I've had to stop judging myself for what I'm not allowed to do. For some reason, there's something in my head that got planted a long time ago that if I don't have energy, I'm worthless. And so this Teasi Cannon (38:55) It's been a long time that I've had to stop judging myself for what I'm not allowed to do. For some reason, there's something in my head that got planted a long time ago that if I don't have energy, I'm worthless. And so... Hillary Morgan Ferrer (39:08) is something I think I allude to in the first book, and I'm doing a lot about it in this, doubt book that I'm working on. And that's called, I'm Worthless O'Clock. Teasi Cannon (39:08) ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (39:17) So there was like a certain time every night that all of sudden I would just start thinking about what a big fat failure I was. And, you know, and of course being a very logical person, I would have all the reasons that I could list, you know, so John couldn't disagree with me. I have all the reasons, you know, but it finally got to the point where he realized this happens about nine o'clock every night. And so we jokingly called it I'm worthless o'clock because somewhere having being tired and being worthless got filed away. So even now, Teasi Cannon (39:38) Yeah. ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (39:47) when I feel tired, I'll have these feelings of feeling worthless. And so I just have to laugh at them and be like, yeah, well, somewhere I'm somewhere in back in time that got filed away together. sometimes you actually don't get rid of these feelings. You just learn how stupid they are and then you laugh at them and you keep going and you just have to wait until they go away. Teasi Cannon (40:00) ⁓ That's huge. think that's great encouragement because some you know, we don't always our Circumstances don't always get better are the lies might still come but we can ⁓ Well, obviously we have the Holy Spirit and Jesus to walk us through it It doesn't necessarily go away, but we can get through it and you're talking Hillary Morgan Ferrer (40:17) Mm-hmm. Teasi Cannon (40:30) about listening to scripture, putting that in your ears. Like I love how accessible it is now to just listen to scripture anytime. And then talking to yourself, I don't remember where, I think about... Hillary Morgan Ferrer (40:36) Yeah. Teasi Cannon (40:45) I know it's throughout the Psalms, but just speaking to our own soul. Sometimes I, you know, we can always glorify God. We can always speak his truth. We can just exemplify his character, his goodness, his reality, even if it's just to our own soul. And that is one of the most important audiences. And I've even ⁓ at times recorded my own voice telling me truth, just to be able to play it when I need it. ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (40:49) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Teasi Cannon (41:15) I also, think it's interesting, I bet we're not alone in... I think the enemy loves to try to torment us right before we're about to drift off to sleep. know, my worthless o'clock or whatever you just called it, also includes not always anymore, but for many years it would also include a complete list of every calorie I had eaten in the day. You know, so like, you know, my issues, we all have our own issues, but mine would be like, why did you eat that? You put that extra cracker in your mouth, you know, just food issues. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (41:24) Mm. ⁓ wow. Mine is stupid stuff that I've said to people, like where I didn't realize how it sounded. like, yeah, I used to have that. I would tell John when I laid down at night, it's like someone turns on a record of every stupid thing I've ever said. Every time I thought that like, you know, back when I was a photographer that I had recommended the wrong frame to somebody. And I kind of regret that. I mean, I mean, everything, every little mistake I could possibly make. And so that's one of the things that during that period of time where I said where. Teasi Cannon (42:03) gosh. Well, yeah. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (42:12) like after my sister died and I had the cracked rib and the Lord just brought me to absolute rock bottom. And I had to work through all that. So I haven't really struggled with it since then. But yeah, and I would say the other thing that I do, and this is something that I don't know why we as Christians don't do this more. So I've like lost any kind of fear of death I could possibly have. ⁓ I'm still afraid of pain, like, ⁓ and I'm terrified of sharks, but. ⁓ Teasi Cannon (42:17) Hmm And I would say the other thing that I do, and this is something that I don't know why we as Christians don't do this more. So I've like lost any kind of fear of death I could possibly have. I'm still afraid of pain. Yeah. And I'm terrified of sharks. Me too. I saw Jaws at an impressionable age. It was awful. Piranha, yes. You don't know what's lurking underneath. You don't. Yeah. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (42:42) Yeah, and piranha back in the 80s. You don't know what's lurking underneath there, but even now if I can't see my feet, that's, yep. ⁓ But one of the things that I like to do is there, John and I call it a sanctified imagination where we are looking forward to heaven. And so I sometimes will make plans for things that I want to do in heaven. Teasi Cannon (42:52) I'm with you. I'm with you. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (43:06) of like, you know what, my fingers do not work very well, but I want to learn how to play cello for at least 50 years. So I'm going to take 50 years and learn how to play the cello really well. ⁓ I would like to take about 50 years and really learn how to dance and I won't have my proprioceptive issues by then, you know, I'll have a perfectly functioning body. And I just think of all the things, because it's like, you know, when we look at heaven, I really think there's going to be a lot of things that are similar to the earth that. Teasi Cannon (43:12) Yeah. And I just think of all the things, because it's like, you when we look at heaven, I really think there's going be a lot of things that are similar to the earth that we will have jobs, will have tasks, we will delight in the work before our hands. you know, all these different things. And even if I don't even if I can't imagine what's I imagine the things that I know that I would love to learn and being able to teach. You know, I want to teach unredeemed biology for the rest of my life to show this is what it looked like when sin entered on the molecular level. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (43:31) We will have jobs, we will have tasks, we will delight in the work before our hands, all these different things. And even if I can't imagine what's coming, I imagine the things that I know that I would love, being able to learn, being able to teach. I wanna teach unredeemed biology for the rest of my life to show this is what it looked like when sin entered on the molecular level and how Teasi Cannon (43:54) This got tweaked and you know so much of my, Hillary Morgan Ferrer (43:54) this got tweaked and so much of my... Teasi Cannon (43:58) feel like I learned more about spirituality from my master's in biology than I ever did any of my seminary because there's so much of a parallel there. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (43:58) I say, I feel like I learned more about spirituality from my master's in biology than I ever did any of my seminary, because there's so much of a parallel there. Teasi Cannon (44:06) Wow. ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (44:07) But if we are not looking forward to what we are putting our hope in, if all we're doing is putting our hope in Christ, and then that's it, and then we die and we think, then I have eternal life, but we're not really sure what that looks like, that's really hard to get excited about. But I kind of have this phrase, like there's times when I honestly, I'm like, Lord, just take me. I can't keep doing this. And I finally come to the decision, you know what? I can do anything for 50 years. And maybe that's how much I have. Maybe I only have five years left. We don't know. I might only have one year with the way things are going. But no matter how bad it gets, ask, you know, can I handle this for 50 years? And like, okay, because eternity is so much longer. And so, yeah, just looking towards eternity because that is what Christ saved us for. If we miss out on that, we miss out on why Christ saved us in the first place. Teasi Cannon (44:48) And so, yeah, just looking towards eternity because that is what Christ saved us for. We miss out on that. We miss out on why Christ saved us. Yeah, yeah. And I love that. So it is. It's just what Christianity offers us uniquely is this beautiful, redemptive, eternal perspective of a restoration, a restored world, a restored relationship with our creator. And I love, you know, the... Hillary Morgan Ferrer (45:08) Mm-hmm. Teasi Cannon (45:16) the parts of Revelation toward the end, talking about every tear being wiped away and Jesus saying, write this down because it's trustworthy and true. so, know, Christianity really does just stand tall in the answers for pain like this, for struggles in your own life. And one thing I would love to ask you just out of curiosity is, and I'm asking all my guests this, when you are like, when you need apologetics, Hillary Morgan Ferrer (45:25) Yeah. Teasi Cannon (45:46) when your heart is crushed and those lies are coming and you are tempted to question, I a fool for believing any of this? What is like your go-to, like your brain immediately goes to this one line of evidence that reminds you, what is that first go-to for you? Hillary Morgan Ferrer (46:02) That's interesting you should ask, because I was going to say, even while I was talking about eternity right then, I had another voice in my head going, all that could be in your imagination. You could be living for a time that doesn't actually exist. And my mind immediately goes back to, well, if you ask me why I believe in Christianity is true, my mind always immediately goes back to the resurrection, that there is no way that the resurrection didn't happen and completely split. the timeline of life here on earth. That would just be really difficult to do. ⁓ So every single time I have those thoughts, even while I was talking to you in this interview, even while I was praying yesterday, this is not all stuff in my past, I always go back to the evidences for the resurrection. But I will say Sean McDowell did contact me a couple of weeks ago because he was asking 100 apologists what their number one line of evidence was for God. Teasi Cannon (46:38) So every single time I have those thoughts, even while I was talking to you in this interview, even while I was praying yesterday, this is not all stuff in my past, I always go back to the evidences for the resurrection. But I will say Sean McDowell did contact me a couple weeks ago because he was asking 100 apologists what their number one line of evidence was for God. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (47:00) And I would say my number one evidence for God is protein synthesis. Teasi Cannon (47:00) And I would say my number one evidence for God is protein synthesis. Yeah, say a little bit about, share what that, explain that just a little bit. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (47:08) Yeah, so protein synthesis, just if you look at the process of protein synthesis going from the DNA and then having the messenger RNA and the transfer RNA, you know, creating the list of the amino acids and the improbability of, it's like you can't do just any combination of amino acids out of the almost infinite number of ⁓ proteins, functional protein sequences that we could have. We've only discovered maybe 200,000. There's actually a website that's like the Protein Bank. And so I don't know how many they've discovered now, but that is such a minuscule number in comparison to what you need for even one of the most basic proteins. So I actually have a favorite. I have a favorite protein. It's myosin. So myosin is really adorable because he kind of reminds me of, he's a he, he kind of reminds me of a junior high boy with big feet because he walks along the microtubules. have... Teasi Cannon (47:38) Wow ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (48:03) ATP that basically comes in and what it does is it changes the shape of the bend in the neck. And so it'll like transport stuff along the microtubules. And basically every cell needs one of these. And I believe it has somewhere in the 5,000 range of amino acids. And I tried to calculate the probability of that, you know, just kind of, you know, arising, like putting itself together. Teasi Cannon (48:08) And so it'll transport stuff along the microtubules. And basically every cell needs one of these. And I believe it has somewhere in the 5,000 range of amino acids. And I tried to calculate the probability of that just kind of arising, like putting itself together. And every single calculator I've used used the infinity sign. I know calculators had an infinity sign until I tried to calculate this. ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (48:26) And every single calculator I used used the infinity sign. I didn't even know calculators had an infinity sign until I tried to calculate this. ⁓ And so that to me, it's like anyone who wants to say that there's no God or there's no evidence for God has basically decided that statistics are not science. Because if you look statistically at these probabilities, the statistics literally are infinity. is, you know, one over infinity. Teasi Cannon (48:35) And so that to me, it's like anyone who wants to say that there's no God or there's no evidence for God has basically decided that statistics are not science. Because you look statistically at these probabilities, the statistics literally are infinity. is in, you know, one over infinity for the probability. anyway, I point back to that, but it really is the evidence is for the resurrection that keeps me coming back to know I know that Christ is real. know that Christianity is true. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (48:54) the probability. anyway, I point back to that, but it really is the evidences for the resurrection that keeps me coming back to know I know that Christ is real. know that Christianity is true. Teasi Cannon (49:05) I'm going to trust what God says in the Bible because it seems to be reliably transmitted. can't prove that what it says is true, I can trust based on what I do know. And every single time, that's what I come back to no matter how I feel. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (49:06) I'm going to trust what God says in the Bible because it seems to be reliably transmitted. I can't prove that what it says is true, but I can trust based on what I do know. And every single time, that's what I come back to no matter how I feel. and it regrounds me in truth, but that again is part of my personality that Teasi Cannon (49:21) And it regrounds me in truth. But that again is part of my personality. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (49:27) that truth aspect matters to me more than anything else. There's a lot of people who experiences matter to them more or seeing goodness in or the way things work that matters to them. But yeah, truth really is my barometer. If it's true, it doesn't matter how I feel about it. Teasi Cannon (49:29) more than anything else. There's a lot of people who experiences matter to them more, or seeing goodness in, or the way things work, that matters to them. But yeah, truth really is my voice. Yeah, well, and I think truth is important for all of us, whether it matters to us as much. We need it. We need it. But I don't know really anything about biology and all the proteins and all of that. However, I do remember watching this one movie that was showing something that looked like a very sophisticated assembly line. And you think about the chances of an actual factory just happening from nothing with no designer, with no intelligence behind it. And we would never Hillary Morgan Ferrer (49:51) hehe Yeah. Yeah. Teasi Cannon (50:15) believe that. And Hillary Morgan Ferrer (50:16) Yeah. Teasi Cannon (50:17) that's what you see at the molecular level. over and over and over again in the tiniest portions of ourselves, these machines that are functioning regularly without our thought, like just on their own. And I think that's miraculous. I love that. I think, you what that kind of, you said, it reminds you that there is a God. We have this brilliant creator and then the resurrection. And I do the same thing. Mine is kind of, I think of the cosmological argument for like, does God exist? And then the resurrection, Hillary Morgan Ferrer (50:21) Yes. Yeah. Teasi Cannon (50:50) gives me evidence for who is God, you who he is and that the Christian God that Jesus, he died, ⁓ he foretold his own death and he did it and he proved that what he demonstrated that who he said he is, that's who he is. And I love that. ⁓ Well, so before we go, do you have any like briefly, is there a counterfeit comfort in our culture today that Hillary Morgan Ferrer (50:53) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Teasi Cannon (51:19) you see ⁓ just really trying to offer people hope where there is absolutely none when you dig in, like a primary one. I know there's a million of them, but is there one that really sticks out to you that frustrates you or that you want to help people see the failure? Hillary Morgan Ferrer (51:30) Yeah There is one that sticks out a lot to me because it's people a lot of times who think that they are acting on behalf of God, ⁓ saying things about him that just aren't true. And ⁓ I saw this come after my sister when she was dying. in fact, I still have a... Teasi Cannon (51:56) Mmm. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (52:00) a voice message from her. Basically, it's the lie that like, basically, if you pray hard enough, or if you do something well enough, God will always heal. So I think we have two different podcasts we have, Will God Always Heal, if you ask in the right way. And then we have another podcast on the whole Wake Up Olive situation, if you remember that. And she had somebody coming to her in the final weeks of her death. Teasi Cannon (52:07) Yeah, yeah I do ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (52:28) trying to get her to believe in her healing. And she just started doubting. I mean, my sister was one of the most godly women that you could meet. You look at her Bible and just all the notes of just praising God and just excited about his word and the way she raised her children. And she was able to embrace, even though it was really hard, even her own death in light of Teasi Cannon (52:28) to get her to believe in her healing. she just started doubting. I mean, my sister was one of the most godly women that you could meet. You look at her Bible and just all of her notes of just praising God and just excited about His word and the way she raised her children. And she was able to embrace, even though it was really hard, even her own death and life. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (52:56) Christ in the light of eternity, the one thing that made her doubt and that made her really, really suffer besides the pain was this woman coming to her trying to convince her that she had to believe hard enough in order to actually be healed and trying to help her do that. As if all these healthy people have the secret formula, they have figured out the secret handshake. It's like, I remember before I was diagnosed with cancer, when I was having all the problems, my husband and I were at a church and they had a guest speaker. Teasi Cannon (52:56) Right. ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (53:26) come in that was basically preaching all this and I remember just being so angry and saying I want him to say it to my face that he is a better Christian than I am, that he knows what he's doing better than I do. I want him to say it to my face that I am subpar in some way and that I'm failing God. Because a lot of times it's like they're trying to give people hope of like, hey this could happen to you too. I saw this healing and I saw this miracle. Teasi Cannon (53:26) Wow ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (53:54) But I remember sitting with my sister Teasi Cannon (53:56) Yeah ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (53:56) and she was actually reading the passage about Jesus where he says, blessed is he who does not fall away on account of me. And it was when Jesus had kind of shown John's disciples the miracles that he was doing for other people and then go back and report to John. And she told me, I feel like, John, where's my miracle? Why is he, Jesus did all this stuff for all these other people. And she's like, but you know what, John felt the same way. John sat there in that prison asked, where's my miracle? And yet Jesus refers to John as the greatest ever born to woman. ⁓ And so this idea of telling everybody that you just need the right kind of faith and the right kind of prayer and you will be healed and God will always heal and we declare it, that is one of the most. Teasi Cannon (54:26) Yeah Yeah ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (54:49) offensive things for someone who has chronic illness. ⁓ And it doesn't give me hope. It makes me... It's heaping judgment on the person who's already broken versus when I can look at what the Lord is doing through my life. Like, I finally come to the conclusion. Like, there's some things I've prayed to have go away. And there's other things I pray where I kind of hear the Lord in my head going, nope. That maybe that one's the one kind of like, Paul, my grace is sufficient for you there. and I am willing and joyful to embrace whatever he I would rather the Lord try to discipline me and steer me through physical weakness than I would through some moral fallout or problems in my marriage or you know whatever else you know burning bridges somewhere else I I ask the Lord continually please humbly without publicly humiliating me and without me burning bridges ⁓ Teasi Cannon (55:21) Yeah ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (55:47) And he's been faithful with that and I receive it. ⁓ And I can have joy in that, but if someone told me, I can guarantee that you'll be healed, I'm like, you know what? I may be too prideful to really do this ministry and I will crash and burn if the Lord is not continually reminding me how weak I actually am. ⁓ That doesn't give me hope. I know that he sees me. I know that there's nothing I go through that is apart from his attention. ⁓ And I know it's gonna be gone one day and that's enough. Teasi Cannon (56:01) Wow, that's great. And not only that, everybody dies. You know, if I mean, at some point, some everyone's. Yeah, like so. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (56:19) Yeah, right? We got a hundred percent track record so far, so if you think that he's gonna heal everything, you know... Teasi Cannon (56:27) Yeah, including the disciples. Jesus is the only one who I know who didn't die. ⁓ well, you have said so many encouraging things, but I just wanted to give you one more moment. If there was any final words of encouragement you might want to share with our listeners who might be hurting today or confused. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (56:31) Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah. So I guess there is one thing, because I don't know if I told you, I am in the midst of ⁓ finally getting to do the book that I've wanted to do since like 2015, Diagnosing Doubt, where I actually use a lot of my examples from diagnosis, diagnoses, you know, where someone diagnoses the wrong thing or whatever, and it doesn't help. And it's only when we get the right diagnosis that I'm able to actually experience some relief. And so just want to encourage people that if you are experiencing Teasi Cannon (56:55) Congratulations, yeah. Mm. Yeah. Hillary Morgan Ferrer (57:16) a lot of doubts and you keep getting answers to the same questions and it'll work for a little while and then you go back to having the same questions, those questions are maybe not the problem. And I just want to encourage you that there may be something deeper. All the questions that you have will probably have answers if you have... ⁓ they do have satisfying answers. And if you're not getting the answers maybe, or if it's not alleviating the struggle, maybe it's the wrong question. Teasi Cannon (57:48) And not give up just yeah Hillary Morgan Ferrer (57:50) Yeah, and not give up. I always say that the Lord, you can't lead someone out of something you've never been through. So just even if you hate it, just remember whatever you're going through, the Lord might have a purpose for you to love on someone going through that exact same situation, which brings us back to the verse at the very beginning, we comfort others with the comfort we ourselves receive. So just asking the Lord, give me joy. Teasi Cannon (58:07) Yep, ⁓ Hillary Morgan Ferrer (58:19) in process, give me joy to be a part of your redemption. Because if you don't really care about being part of God's redemption, then that's not going to bring you joy. So ask the Lord to bring you joy for what brings Him joy. And that's the kind of prayer that He does answer every time. Teasi Cannon (58:35) that he does answer every time. I love that. That's so good. And I will just add to that, like I know with my own doubts, if you keep seeking, like you just encouraged, you know, just looking, you know, asking to help, you know, identify what is, what's the root of this question and you go for it. Those journeys end up being the most satisfying faith bolstering journeys. So doubt is not the enemy. It can be a guide to a stronger faith. And I'm looking forward to your book. When is it going to be out? you know? Hillary Morgan Ferrer (59:05) Yeah. Yep. Oh, not like for a couple years, like 27, like, yes. So, but yeah. Teasi Cannon (59:12) okay. Okay. Well, good. We have something to look forward to for a while. Well, Hillary, I want to thank you again so much for sharing all of that with us. And I know we could keep talking so much more about all that you've learned. And I hope that anyone that has listened today feels encouraged. I will put in the show notes how to find you and your ministry and keep track of when your book is going to be coming out because I know a lot of people are going to be blessed by that. And I would love to ask you if you were blessed to ⁓ subscribe so that you don't miss us. And if this was encouraging or you know someone who could use this kind of encouragement, I would just, I would love for you to share it so that you and your friends won't miss a single moment of true comfort. Thank you guys so much.