Latest / The UNWavering Podcast / Proclaiming the Transforming Presence of Jesus | Peter Reid '84

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Proclaiming the Transforming Presence of Jesus | Peter Reid '84 · The UNWavering Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hey everybody, this is Monty and Cassie.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to season two of the Unwavering podcast.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: We're so excited to be back.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: And we can't wait.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: We're excited for this season.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: Cassie, what are you most excited about for season two?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_06: Well, of course, I'm still excited to hear the stories from people here, what God is doing in them and through them and through Northwestern.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_06: But it sounds like we've got kind of a new rhythm for this season.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_06: What can you tell us about it?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, as you know, this is the Unwavering Podcast.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we're going to talk about the people, the purpose, and the pulse of Northwestern.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's going to be true in every single episode.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: But we're also breaking the episodes down into three types of episodes.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: There will be spotlights that focus on the person that we get a chance to connect to and their story.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's going to be regular or topical episodes where we focus on the purpose and really dive into a topic.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then lastly, pulse episodes where we just catch up on something that is happening currently on campus.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, I love how we're leaning into that tagline of the unwavering podcast.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_06: Today we get to focus on that spotlight.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_06: And today it's Peter Reed.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_06: He's in 1984 Northwestern grad, and he's the current general director of Torchbearers International, here to encourage through his ministry and what God's doing through him.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be great.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do it.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Join as we highlight the people, the purpose, and the pulse of Northwestern.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Unwavering Podcast.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that changed my whole understanding of the Christian life, and it changed my experience as a Christian because I came to the point where I needed to realize it's not about my effort, it's about his working.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Our guest today is Peter Reed, a 1984 University of Northwestern alum and the current general director of Torchbearers International, an international missions fellowship focused on proclaiming the transforming presence of Jesus Christ through biblical teaching and practical training.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Along with his wife, Gabi, Peter has spent over 40 years serving in discipleship and Bible education, including leadership as the Bible school principal and then director of Bodenseehof, the Torchbearer Center, located in southern Germany.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: Peter's story is marked by a deep dependence on Christ, an international teaching ministry, and a passion to equip men and women to serve faithfully in the church around the world, regardless of their vocation.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Peter, it is such a joy to welcome you into the studio today.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's great to be here.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we were we were chatting just before stepping into the studio and realized that I'd heard you speak already at multiple conferences, and I even have notes in my phone.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that that's incredible.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: What a fun connection.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we're thrilled to have you here, and we're excited to dive in and hear more about your Northwestern story and hear about just what the Lord has been doing in your life, what you're passionate about now.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: But before we get that far, um, let's just start with where you're at today.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what has the Lord been teaching you personally in this season of life and ministry?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you, Monty.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of the lessons that we learn in Christ uh come back over and over again.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I I turned 65 in December.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: And at this point in my life, I'm really entering that last chapter and how the Lord wants me to spend these last precious years.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me, there's a sense of urgency in the Lord uh to know him, to communicate him, and to walk alongside a uh a younger generation and and hopefully encourage and pastor them in the way that they need it.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: It really stood out to me how you talked about urgency.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: There.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Not a sense of like, I made it to the end of serving and now I'm just gonna chill out, but no, a sense of like urgency to reach this generation.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, absolutely.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we regardless of your vocation, regardless of your age, you're serving the Lord until He He calls you home.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I've seen that demonstrated in the the brothers and sisters, fathers and mothers in the faith who have really walked with me all of these years in Torchbears.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: They have lived it out and and remain teachable until their their last days.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, may the Lord keep us all faithful all the way through.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you're an encouragement to us too.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I read a quote from you on the Torchbearers website, and I would just love to hear you just talk a little bit more about it.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: But the quote went like this Since our faith will only stop being tested when our faith is no longer needed, I've settled into a life of learning and increasing dependence on our living Lord.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: There was a there was a German pastor that was really like a spiritual father to me, and he was over 80 years old, and he said to me one day, Peter, if you think that getting older is a challenge-free, problem-free phase in your life, you're very foolish.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: I have challenges now that I've never faced before in my life.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that was actually quite sobering.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: But what impressed me about his life is that he remained teachable, he remained humble, and he remained engaged with the Lord and other people's lives really until he went to be with the Lord.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so that let me know that you know it's not it's never coasting.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we we can't afford to do that and become passive even in our latter years.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's so good.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: So good.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_06: Before we dive into more of the latter years and what you're doing now with torchbears, I want to go back in time and talk about your time at Northwestern.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_06: Oh man.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_06: Get to know you as a student.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_06: Um, can you tell us uh about your Northwestern days?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_06: How did you initially come to Northwestern?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: The year before I came to Northwestern, I had attended the Torchbearer Bible School at Bodensejov in southern Germany, which has now become home to us.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I did uh immediately after uh high school graduation.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And while I was there, I met Wally and Donna Schoon, who were Northwestern alumni.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And they told me uh about and spoke so highly about Northwestern that I was actually accepted to two other colleges in the United States, and I dumped those plans to come to Northwestern.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so glad that I did.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how I initially came to Northwestern College.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_06: Wow, that's amazing.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_06: So it was kind of a divine intervention meeting those alums.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you realize that uh looking over your shoulder very clearly.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's wonderful.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_06: Well, tell us a little bit about um what was formative in your time here spiritually, academically, relationally.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_06: What stands out?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think what stands out to me because I had had that year of Bible school at Bodenseeov, um, it was foundational for my coming to Northwestern.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the other freshmen were just getting out of high school, and I had been overseas in a Bible school, which had prepared me very well for entering the environment at Northwestern College.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I came, it was like jumping into the next step in my life.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And there was such a combination of things that were so foundational for me spiritually, academically, socially, athletically, as far as leadership and and taking on responsibility.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to jump into that soon after I came, which was an excellent stepping stone to what I had just been through in Germany.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and I want to talk about a little bit about your athletic journey too, because I think that's kind of where the fun is.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_06: But um we all have professors and mentors from our time at Northwestern.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_06: Who sticks out to you?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_06: What do you remember about how they formed your your spiritual maturity?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: There was a time I declared two different majors and then dropped them both, and then at the end of my second year, landed on the one that I was going to graduate with.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that was in social sciences with an emphasis on history.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: So there were there were a few teachers that I took as many courses as possible uh from them, and that would have been uh Charles Herman, it would have been Steve Farrell, Linda Wendler, and and Dr.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Dunnett, who who taught theology at that time.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And those were uh excellent uh teachers for me in ways that I didn't realize at the time because they taught me how to study, they taught me to learn on my own, which I didn't know I was gonna need once I left Northwestern.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that was an excellent preparation.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Aaron Powell Do you feel like you have any specific memories of those professors, or is it is it more like just a general they really impacted and set you up to go?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: I sat in their last uh classes and was like a sponge.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_06: Um so it sounds like they were planting seeds in your life.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_06: Do you notice those those seeds coming to fruition now in your life?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_06: Aaron Powell You know, it's interesting.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I've I've spent uh 42 years now outside of the United States.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: So Germany has become my home.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: I spent five years in Canada, but um I didn't have the opportunity to pursue higher education when I left here because I was thrown into our ministry at the tender age of 23.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had to study on my own, in particular for the lectures I was preparing uh to lecture at Bible school and then to preach in German.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then that blossomed in other opportunities.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I mean when I say, you know, those teachers taught me how to study.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: They taught me how to think.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: They uh for instance, in Charles Herman's class, uh it was a history class.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: So at least as an American living in Europe, I knew how to ask an intelligent question.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know that at that time, but it was wonderful preparation for me.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_06: That's amazing.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's amazing.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_06: If you could go back and talk to your college-age self, what would you tell younger Peter about faith and calling?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, I'd say enjoy the years at Northwestern College that you have right now, because they are very unique and you will not have a time like this uh moving into the future.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: As far as faith and preparation, you know, I talked about athletics, I talked about the social aspect, the academic aspect.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was also volunteering uh in the youth department at Wooddale Church, which was my home church.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: And in ways that I didn't know, even in athletics, athletics was fun, but it taught me, it taught me leadership.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it taught me how uh how to exercise good influence.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then with the combination of Northwestern and then short-term missions, responsibility that I had at Northwestern or Wooddale, it was very definitely uh God's school for me.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Then to go to Germany and accept responsibility pretty quickly that I never anticipated I would.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So glad for a Northwestern at that time.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: You're equipped with different opportunities to practice leadership.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Practice influence.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: And there's probably quite a few characters on the soccer team that needed a good influence in their life, didn't they?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: It would be hard for me to comment on that because it might come back to haunt me.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: For those of you listening, um, my dad, Bill Abler, was one of the guys in the soccer team, as was my uncle.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I know there's at least one of those two.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: I won't say which one that's true.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, your father Bill was a senior.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was a lowly freshman.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And if I could say this publicly, he was such a positive influence on me.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: He I I believe that he was captain of the team at that time, and I thought it's good to be here with him.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I deeply appreciated that.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: He also had a perm at the time, didn't he?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Did he have a perm then?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I did.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, just did it influence you to get a perm?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: I did I I you know, probably other things, but not that one.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_06: They were called the soccer bobs back then, right?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's cruel.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_06: How did that name come about?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, if I only knew.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: I probably these are things I should know.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: I just know we had a wonderful time uh together, wonderful camaraderie.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And uh let's just say this.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: I I think we were known on campus uh as much off the soccer field as well as on the soccer field.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: It they were just a group of fun, great guys.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: If I could say this, my high school years were like the years that the locusts ate and God gave them back at Northwestern.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: So to be involved in athletics and a healthy environment with the athletes, uh that that was great.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I resonate with that.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_06: That's yeah.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's obvious that from your time at Northwestern, some of the deepest influences or maybe your deepest connections back are through that soccer team or through the professors in your study.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we hear that a lot from alums.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: I know Cassie and I share that experience too, of just how it matters to get involved on campus.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: And to appreciate as much as you can the faculty who are pouring into your into your heart and into your mind.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, thanks for sharing some of those stories.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: We'd love to live there and ask more nostalgic questions.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: I have questions, I have questions too.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: You shared about how to study, how to think.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's what the professors were kind of equipping you on, and I'm hoping that comes up a little bit later.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um but right now I I'd love to hear more about Torchbears.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: And you've spent like your entire career at Torch Bearers, right?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: Is that is that true?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's correct.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: So from you you spent a year at Torchbears pre-Northwestern.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's correct.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then just jumped right in afterwards.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Did you did you think it was going to be a lifelong thing at Torch Bears?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Never in the way that it's unfolded.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I never could have anticipated that.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think that I would have obviously liked to have, because they had become a spiritual home for me and deeply influential in my life.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And again, the combination of Torchbears and Northwestern was excellent in my case.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um when Perhaps I could end, you know, to give the context of how Torch Bears began.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: When when World War II ended, uh there was a man by the name of Major Ian Thomas who carried the title Major, because you did when you were uh when you retired from active service, you you you kept being referred to by that title.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And uh before World War II, he had reached a point in his life as a 19-year-old.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: He was converted at 12.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: At 19, he came to the point where I think the term that you and I would use today was he burned out.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that was critical for him because he is uh a man who uh just uh was tremendously influential.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: He was a natural-born leader, but he had to understand that uh God didn't want necessarily his ability as much as his availability, and he needed to discover that Christ didn't just die for him and then hope that he was gonna give it his best shot, but that Christ also came to live in him by his spirit and to produce a life through him that Ian Thomas couldn't on his own.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was the heritage that uh formed the foundation of our ministry.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: After World War II, he was part of the um Allied occupation forces in Germany, and God gave him a deep desire to love German young people, which was pretty radical after the war for a British officer who had been fighting the Germans and who weren't necessarily kind to him in battle to have this desire in the Lord to reach out to them, which he did.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And he and his wife Joan were able to purchase a large home.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: You and I would call it a castle up near the Lake District in northern England.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a government program that would sponsor any school, any conference center, any hotel, any anywhere there were their beds to give German young people a vacation in England under the condition that somebody from the government would come in and teach them the principles of democracy uh after the war.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so Major Thomas became uh he he that they they signed up to be a part of this program, but his sole desire was to preach Christ, and he did.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And there were loads of Germans that started coming to Christ.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And he said to them as they came and went back home, uh, you know, what are we going to call you?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: And they came up with the German word Faculträger, which is the word torchbearers.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where that word comes from, from these German young people who came to Britain on vacation, responded to Christ, received him, and then went back home.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And he would drive around Germany uh on the Autobahn, and there were very few cars on the Autobahn at that time, and he would visit them in their homes, schools, youth groups, etc., and disciple them.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then they asked him to teach them scriptures, and so they started a Bible school, which was three months, four months, or three months, six months, and then eventually nine months, and that's how the ministry came into being.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's incredible.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: So he he helped people meet helped these Germans meet Jesus for the first time, and then he essentially went and just like discipled, equipped, visited, spread them on.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: It started small, you know.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and that's what has impressed me about him.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: He always paid attention to the individual, always had time for the hungry heart.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And what does it look like today?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Today, Torchbears is uh we're operating in I was trying to do the math before I came on.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it's 25 different countries.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: There are centers in 20 of them, but there are new initiatives taking place in Kenya, Tanzania, Italy, uh, and Peru.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: So there's uh a lot going on.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and the and the blossom, the the the ministry just blossomed from that time over the next we're uh we're gonna be uh about 70 years old here pretty quick.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's exciting.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I love the name and the imagery it brings up for me because it's I know torches are best used in the dark.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_06: And draw people in and then you pass them on.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_06: So it's amazing.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I s I say this often because it's part of our history.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Don't waste a crisis because God doesn't.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And uh often things are born out of brokenness.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: And these post-war ministries of which torch bears would be just one, were born out of a crisis.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_06: Right, but in the dark.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: So you jumped into this organization right out of college again.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: And what's your role in the organization today?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I went to um after graduating, I went back to Bodenseeov to be an RA and I made a six-month commitment.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I th I was thinking at that time, this is gonna be six months and I'll move on, and that was 42 years ago.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: But but what happened is, and this is why Northwestern was so critical for me, is that I just uh the Lord led me into more and more responsibility.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh teaching at the Bible school, doing youth work in German, then go preaching in churches in German, Germany, and then uh eventually I became Bible school principal, then directing the center, and then in 2017 was asked to take this present position of general director of the whole ministry.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's incredible.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: What uh I know what motivated the founder to start it.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: What is it that really lights your passion?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh for the first time in my life when I was 18, before I came to Northwestern, I had heard uh teachers teach this truth that is contained all over the New Testament.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Galatians 20, 220.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I am crucified with Christ is no longer I, but Christ lives within me.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Colossians 1.27, Christ in you, the hope of glory.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I hadn't heard that before.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm not saying that it wasn't preached before.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: I just wasn't in a position where I was receptive to it.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Probably is the case.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: But in any case, that was just God's timing in my life.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I came to know and to taste a living Christ who, again, not just died for me, but now lives in.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Me to reproduce his life through me.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that changed my whole understanding of the Christian life.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it changed my experience as a Christian because I I came to the point where I needed to realize it's not about my effort, it's about his working.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I need to maintain a disposition of dependence towards him as much every day after the first day I received Christ, which will never end.
• 22:32
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: Was there a moment that that shifted for you?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like when it just something snapped or you just understood or grasped it, or is it a more prolonged experience?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: That is a very good question.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think the learning of it was a prolonged experience.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: But then there was also a crisis point in my life that took place at Northwestern College.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it happened after I had been at Bodenseo for six months.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was asked to stay on full-time.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: I came back to the United States to pack my bags and to move to Germany permanently.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: And Major Thomas was uh speaking here at Northwestern College for a week of meetings.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the director in Germany asked me to host him for the week.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I heard this truth, Christ in you, the hope of glory.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd heard that over and over and over again.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'd I'd even spoken it to others.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, it's interesting, you can have the language without knowing it in your life.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And on that point in particular, there was this gap between my language and my life and knowing the living risen indwelling Christ.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it was at that week that I first uh appropriated Christ who I had received in 1974 as a teenager.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the the simplest thing in the world, I just began to thank him that he lived in me.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was going to trust him to make that real in whatever time or way he wanted to do that.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I was going to leave the consequences of my obedience to him.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it was actually a step of obedience to me in my faith, not just to reckon with a Christ who died for me, but a Christ who lives within me.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: That was a game changer.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_06: That's such a good reminder.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's huge.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh it's transformative.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: It flips the whole script, or it feels like it feels like it put on a whole new set of glasses that you viewed all of life in.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Is I mean, this is similar.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: In the the mission statement for Torchbearers, it talks about proclaiming the transforming presence of Jesus Christ through biblical teaching and practical training.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think this is getting at that transforming presence of Jesus Christ.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's correct.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: Is it's it's Christ in you.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: Is that what it's getting at?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's correct.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's what scripture calls it.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: How have you seen this, the transforming power of Christ in the lives of those you've been ministering or been equipping?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: I experienced within the context of Torchbears what you two experience within the context of Northwestern.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to say Northwestern college.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_06: I went there too.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: I went too.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I meet people all over the world, literally all over the world, who attended one of our schools and are now living with the Lord in a way that is exercising influence in their local national settings.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not just referring to pastors and missionaries, but I'm also referring to businessmen, doctors, educators who, regardless of their vocation, are having influence in Christ.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Better said, Christ is having influence through them in their settings.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we could be here all night to give you all the examples, but uh there are a lot of people out there who discovered that truth.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Some people say to me, Peter, you gotta get out there and advertise torchbearers more.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think the best advertisement is a changed life.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's what I see happening.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that encourages me more than anything else.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that gets at the just the root of letting the Lord pass the message.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's huge.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: I uh it connects with what we do here at Northwestern Big Time.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like what we talk about almost, we don't talk about it just academically, but what you could read on a website is that we are equipping leaders who want to be God-honoring leaders in their home, their church, their community, and world.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a really nice phrase to say and a nice mission to have.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: But how does it happen practically?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it gets any more practical than understanding the reality of Christ in me.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: And living into that reality.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: I I think it's neat how you've been, you were learning that over and over and over and over.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's this moment where it just flipped.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: And and Christ becomes your full dependency, your full vision, your full motivator.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: I've had the opportunity to hear you speak personally.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or to hear the Lord speak through you because it's Christ in you, right?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Inspiring you.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I just really admire your teaching style.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: And as we're ahead of coming into this studio, I just look back on the notes that I took from your sessions and just filled with just encouragement and notes.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious to learn more about how you study scripture and how you turn that study into how do you how do you prepare to teach scripture?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what does that look like for you?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: The Bible is the only book in the world whose author is present every time we read it.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: And if we're born again by the Spirit of God, that spirit inspired men to write the scriptures, and he knew exactly what he meant when they wrote it down.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so we need good scholarship, which is submitted to a childlike relationship with the Lord, so that he remains the teacher.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so there are very healthy and very viable academic tools that we can apply to the study of scripture.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: But in the end, it must be the Spirit of God interprets things to you in such a way that he then, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 2, gives you spiritual thoughts that then are communicated by spiritual words.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: And as I said, I did not have the opportunity to pursue higher education after Northwestern simply because I was thrown so quickly into the ministry.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had to start studying scripture on my own.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I'm a firm believer in the in the fact that what when you communicate God's word, it's only gonna grip somebody else if it's first gripped you.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so my personal time in the Lord in my devotional life is critical.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then to prepare lectures uh and to prepare a series to preach on, that's that takes place in a broader context.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh it takes uh prayer, it takes submission to the spirit, it takes doing your homework well.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: This is one thing that goes back to Northwestern.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was seated in one of Dr.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Dunnett's lectures, and he mentioned a book by a man named Jay Sidlow Baxter called Explore the Book.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember what else he said in that lecture, but I will never forget that.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I went out of that lecture and bought that book, and it's on my bookshelf to this day.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Jay Sidlow Baxter was a pastor of Charlotte Baptist Chapel in Edinburgh, Scotland, and he gives an overview of scripture, each probably between three and five chapters on each book of the Bible, and it's a wonderful starting point, and I've used that ever since.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: And again, that goes back to Northwestern.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's right.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now that you guys say that, I mean, these things come back now, and I say, my, how significant that was.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then there is such a thing called a spiritual gift, and and this is also a Northwestern story.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: There were several classes that I dropped in my career at Northwestern, accounting, uh computer science, uh, things like that.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: That that's just not me.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the classes that I had to take to get my degree, and it was my worst grade at Northwestern, was public speaking.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: And my temperament is not such that I enjoy standing in front of large groups of people.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: I am more of an introvert.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: I like a one-on-one conversation.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then a friend of mine told me one day, you know, sometimes God gifts us, contrary to our temperament, to hold us at a healthy place of dependence.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's true of me.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Something that stuck for me when what you were just talking about was you said it something like this.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: If you're going to share something that's going to grip others, it needs to grip you first.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: I just think that statement is not one that I want to go speeding past.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: Is that the relationship with Christ in you is real.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: And and the authenticity and passion that comes from that is real.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: What's a mistake that maybe some Bible teachers make or are tempted to make?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then one what is a practice that you would encourage anyone listening to this podcast to adopt?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of things come to mind.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Also, an old torchbearer who was the former pastor at Moody Memorial Church in Chicago in the 50s, his name was Dr.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Alan Redpath.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: I believe that it was from him that I heard this phrase: many people can prepare a sermon, few can bring a message.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: And what he meant was there are fewer who can so live in the Lord that what they say from the pulpit is prophetic for the audience.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I've never forgotten that.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, because of the ministry that I'm involved in, it is always a temptation for me to lean on a manuscript, to lean on something that I've prepared.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I preached this at Grace Church last time, and I can go to the sectional up in Alexandria, you know, in a couple of days and preach the same thing and get the same results.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Not necessarily.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, in the books of Joshua and Judges, God never gave the same battle plan twice.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: And in the gospel accounts, Jesus healed five different blind people five different ways.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so the discipline of bringing a message, not just a sermon, is being open to the Lord and humble enough to say, Lord, what is your word for these people at this time?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: It may be something that I've preached before, but the Lord needs to make it clear.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and I have to be honest, sometimes I don't know that that's the case, but you go in an attitude of dependence that he's gonna bring something to those to whom you're speaking that is just for them.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so as somebody who's involved in a teaching ministry, I think that the mistake that I am prone to make is to lean on a manuscript that I've prepared, a story that I've told instead of the living Christ Himself.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's really good.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: A couple last questions about torch bearers or your your work with torchbearers, if you don't mind.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um Another thing that you do within the ministry is equipping men and women for service in his church worldwide.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: So there is a there's a biblical teaching and practical training and with this intent of equipping for service.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um what does that look like for a listener right now who's who's serving in their local church here?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, how can they continue to be equipped or how can they recognize how the Lord might be inviting them to step in?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm a firm believer that the Lord leads in a historical flow.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: So there are reasons why we have come from the family, the church, the schools that we have.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's always wise to look at how he has led you and through whom he has led you.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: So pay attention to that.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: If I could say this about torchbears and our role in equipping people to serve in the church, the goal of torchbears, as far as once you leave, is not to replace the church, it's to serve the church so that our students would go back and serve.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was at Bodenseehof at the age of 18, our last lecturer said, go back to your church and serve.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I went back to Louis Inks, who was the Louis, he was the youth pastor at Wooddale at that time, had just come and I said, Louis, I've just returned from Bible school.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to serve.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't say I'm ready to preach on Sunday.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: I said I'm here to serve, and if that meant stuffing envelopes, mowing the lawn.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't know a youth pastor in the United States is frustrated because he's got too many volunteers and he doesn't know what to do with them.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: So Louis said, You're on.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: And he took me under his wing and and plugged me in.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we should just make ourselves available to the leadership and just let them know we're we're willing to do anything.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think that it is the responsibility, the leadership in the church, to recognize who the Lord may have his hand on and what in particular he sent or gifted them to do, and then release them to do it.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's more my job now, but back then that's exactly what happened to me uh both at church at Northern Pines Family Conference where I came to Christ and torchbears.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_06: You you lead torchbears globally.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_06: But how do you stay rooted as a follower of Jesus, not a leader?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh two things came to my mind.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, there was an old torchbearer named Dr.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: John Hunter, who had been a school principal, and the Lord called him into a preaching ministry, and he came to live at Cape and Ray Hall, the first torchbearer center in northern England.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I had heard him speak at a conference, and I went to him and said, Dr.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hunter, where did you study to preach like you do?
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because I just uh was tremendously enriched by his preaching and teaching.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Oh, Peter, I I've never spent a day in seminary.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: I said, What about the doctor title?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Don't worry about that.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's only an honorary degree.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then I said, You still haven't answered my question.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then this godly man who was over 70, I thought he was ancient.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that anymore.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: But he said to me, I get that on my knees with my Lord.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then I asked him, How do you do that?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I have been sharing the contents of that conversation since 1982.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: I need to be on my knees.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: I need to go to the word to be counseled, to be taught, to be encouraged, to be admonished by the Lord in private.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and that needs to be taking place during my ministry.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's this wonderful verse in 1 Samuel 30 and verse 6.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: And David encouraged himself in the Lord.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: And in leadership, the more responsibility you have, the fewer people there will be who will speak into your life because they're going to come to you with your their own needs as well they should.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: But you need to learn how to cultivate a walk with Christ and guard that uh at all costs.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: And the second thing that I would say is that I have gained much from people who are older, wiser, better, more gifted than I am.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I make it a point to hang out with them.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I was doing last week with the director of the conference center where I was.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I've just made it a point to do that.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: If I can personally, sometimes that's been through their books, through their preaching ministry, but uh we we learn within the context of relationship, which is why we see Moses and Joshua, Elijah and Elijah, Paul and Timothy and Jesus with his disciples.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's where you learn best and deepest uh how to walk with Christ.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_06: That's really encouraging.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: So you're saying we don't just practice our walk with Christ when we're on sabbatical?
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a daily thing.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: There is no vacation uh from from walking with the Lord.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_06: Well, and so as believers, we're not to grow weary of doing good.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but you were talking about burnout before.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_06: And I think that's a really high level of that in ministry.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_06: How do you avoid that?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, we say you need to be available 24-7.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Jesus was not available to people 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: He was available to his father 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that meant saying the magic word no.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so he took off and and got alone with his father uh at various times in the scriptures.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think there are 24 different references to prayer in the Gospels in relation to Jesus.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so he took time to cultivate that relationship with his father.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Jesus said, I am the vine, you are the branches, he who abides in me, and I in him, there's much fruit.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so in the studio, I'm looking at my body is the vine, my arm is the branch, and the fruit is out where my hand is.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it is a temptation in particular in the ministry.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: You want to see results.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus said, I have appointed you that you might go and bear fruit.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: That there's no question.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: The temptation, though, as a as a branch, is to look for the fruit, and you lose sight of the vine.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the the danger is the more you look for the fruit, the less there's going to be.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: And the less there is, the more you look, the more you look, the less there is.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then you've fallen into this black hole of introspection that is uh one of the biggest thieves of joy I know in the Christian life.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so, in regards to burnout, you need to let go of the results of your ministry.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: Isaiah preached for 60 years, and he, in human terms, was ineffective.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then you go to Acts chapter 8, what, 750 years later, and God brought about fruit from his ministry.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Isaiah is outside of the Psalms, the most quoted Old Testament book in the New Testament.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes you may never see the results of your ministry.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean that you've been disobedient, that doesn't mean that you're not gifted, that doesn't mean that God's not working.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: What we would do with Isaiah today, we would say you're hiding some sin, uh, you don't have the gift of preaching, you've been disobedient because there's no fruit.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's not always the measure of of you know uh our maturity in Christ.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Maturity and and and success, if you want to put it that way in ministry, is gonna be measured by the size of our faithfulness.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Did we do what he told us to do, regardless of results?
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: You've been living now, even since that wake-up call six months after your graduation, with this reality of Christ in you, and you've been leaning on, depending on him.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: I just gotta know what are some of the biggest, sweetest, deepest things that you know about our Lord as you've been just living in that reality.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's this passage in John chapter 8 when the Pharisees bring this woman caught in adultery to Jesus, and they say to him, You know, Moses told us to stone such women.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: What do you say?
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: And uh he bends down the ground and writes something.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, we don't know what he wrote.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then he stands up and he says, He who's without sin casts the first stone.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then it specifically says they all left the older ones first.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a detail in scripture that we sometimes overlook, but the older you get, the more you realize how you are only here because of the mercy and grace of God.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: If I could be honest with you, I feel like my life is in overtime in you know, a sporting event, because you know, uh Torchbears and the Lord could have taken me out quite some time ago, but they didn't.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: And what that did to me is it realized it made me realize I have no right to anything here on earth.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's my privilege to know Christ, and if I belong to him today, and death and and hell is what I really deserve, I'm having a good day.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that that the Older you get, the more aware you are of the mercy of God in your life.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not here today because I've held on to Jesus.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here today because he's held on to me.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: And he has refused to let me go.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_06: We were talking about burnout and the fruit, but we don't always see the fruit.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_06: So sometimes without seeing the fruit, what gives you hope for the global church?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_06: The church capital C, even if we don't always see.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: Scripture teaches us this, doesn't it?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, th there's so many things that happened in the Old Testament that were then fulfilled in the New Testament.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think it's like 27% of the prophecies in the Old Testament have been fulfilled in the New Testament already.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that tells us that God always does what he says and God always finishes what he starts.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so if I know that based on scripture, I can trust him with that in my own personal life.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that one of the privileges of my position right now is that we're traveling all over the world.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the church is actually growing and is quite healthy outside of the West, whether that be North America or Europe.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's growing in the East, it's growing in the South, and interestingly enough, it's growing in those places where there is persecution and and they're strong.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it's my conviction that the greatest danger to the church is not going to come from the outside, it's going to come from within through our compromise, through our leaving the scriptures, and not remaining utterly dependent and obedient to Christ.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_06: About your experiences and what God's doing through you in the ministry.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_06: But how can we lead people to know more about torchbearers and what God's doing through that ministry?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_06: How can we connect people?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, of course, in in in this day and age, the easiest thing is to go online.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just you're not just going to get information.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of video content.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: There are testimonies you will see on a world map where all the centers are located, and you just click on that dot and it's going to open up their website and tell you more about their country, their ministry, their uniqueness.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I would say that the basic program of the Torchbear Schools is very similar worldwide, but the flavor that Christ is using is unique.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: And there are a number of things that contribute to that, certainly the culture, certainly the leadership at the center, and then the makeup of the student body.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: So if I went to Bodenseo, for instance, or one of our schools in in Europe, you might walk into your room and you come from Roseville in in uh Minnesota, and you might walk into your room and there's there's another student there from Oslo and uh Nairobi and Lima, Peru.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: That is a monumental lesson in itself because you realize the body of Christ is much bigger than my local setting, and that then forces you to consider, oh, I I thought that core belief in me was biblical.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, it's it's cultural.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it forces you to go back to the scriptures and seek to determine, okay, what's essential and what's not.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so you go to the website and you'll see those kinds of things and you'll get an impression of the kind of people that are attending our schools.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_05: That's awesome.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's good.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I can also say you can follow along with a lot of the story through social channels as well and really see what's going on and see the heart for this ministry.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's incredible.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want to hear more about what the Lord is sharing through Peter, just Google Peter Reed, and you can certainly hear some of his messages that way too.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: But Peter, it's been it's been a pleasure um having you here.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for making some some time out of your schedule while you're here in Minnesota.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_02: But you're glowing, man.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like the Lord is shining into you and you are reflecting that.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it is it is so encouraging.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I imagine it will be for those listening as well.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you, Monty and Cassie.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a pleasure to be with you.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: To hear more, subscribe and leave a rating wherever you listen.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: And if you know an alum, faculty member, staff, or student of Northwestern doing amazing things out in the world, let us know at alumni at unwsp.edu, the unwavering podcast, highlighting the people, the purpose, and the pulse of Northwestern.