Latest / The DM Sales Gal: Close Sales in DMs with Instagram Stories, Lead Generation & High-Ticket Sales Strategies / Your Testimonials are Mid: THESE Case Studies Get You More Clients | Ep 25

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Your Testimonials are Mid: THESE Case Studies Get You More Clients | Ep 25 · The DM Sales Gal: Close Sales in DMs with Instagram Stories, Lead Generation & High-Ticket Sales Strategies

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: People who want to invest a large amount of money in with you, they aren't, it's not that they need to be convinced that you can give them your result.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's that they need to be convinced that you can give them the result for the offer and the business that they have.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: If your Instagram stories and your Instagram DMs aren't bringing you 16K hot and steamy leads, and you're not exactly at the sales school you want to be at for this quarter, I've got you.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hey sales friends, I'm Alyssa, your cheap sales gal.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've been in business for 11 years, and I currently run a done for you lead generation and lead management agency with Instagram DMs.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm about to show you guys all of the juicy sales things on Instagram, Instagram stories to get new leads, and closing sales in the DMs and with sales calls.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: So let's get into all of the juicy details.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to the DM Sales Gal.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited to introduce you to our newest guest.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Today we have Coley James on, who we have just ascertained that we have known each other for years and now finally get to come together for this podcast episode.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Coley is an incredible client experience systems strategist, and as we are going to talk about all of the different ways that you can build your case studies to get even more clients, even better client results, how do we market it?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: What information do we include?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: How do we gather this information?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: All of the things.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I will let Kohli introduce herself even more thoroughly, and then we will get into all things case studies and client experience.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: And Coley has an awesome new tool that I just heard about to help you guys with case studies.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we will chat about that also.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Alyssa, thank you so much for having me on the podcast.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: I will say I don't know that I've ever said yes to a podcast invite that quickly.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't get the opportunity to talk about case studies that often because forward-facing, I am a client experience system strategist, and nothing about that screams case studies.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like it screams workflows, it screams automations.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: But like one of the best things that I do for my clients is help them create systems to gather the proof that they need for their marketing and their sales.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm super excited to chat about this with you today.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I did a podcast episode on this topic very early in 2026.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was not planned.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: We literally showed up together and she was like, What do you want to talk about today?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I don't know, pick something.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: I thought we were gonna talk about email, but she's like, you know what?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: I am obsessed with your case study page.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about that.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Bet, let's go.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, case study page is a whole umbrella that we can talk about.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's like a pinnacle of entrepreneurship.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like last year or earlier this year, I used to say say to six, seven plus figure founders, like at a certain point, it's like, what the fuck else are we gonna do but write books, speak on stages, make a group program, do collabs with Flowdesk.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, like what else are we gonna do with ourselves after we've worked this hard to get here?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And now I would also add from hearing you, having a case studies page would also be a new pinnacle of entrepreneurship.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe we shouldn't be writing books and speaking on stages and launching hundred-person group programs if we don't have a case studies page.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a really good intro, and I'm so excited to pick your brain about case studies and share it with the audience and how you can help people as well.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm super pumped, and yeah, I found Coley on threads talking about case studies, and here we are.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm so excited.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think that to start this off, one of the hardest things with for people about case studies is we're always doing a lot of the same things.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're always like managing our clients, managing a team, getting leads, doing marketing.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Then I've learned now that our team is 16 people, there's also a fuckload of back-end work, like a whole lot.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I have a CRO and a COO and an operations manager and a client experience manager, and there's still shit to do, especially when you make a brand new offer or things of that nature.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I think with everything that we manage is entrepreneurs, and when you get to, you know, six, seven plus figures of success, there is more to manage, if not ideally more work, but there's still a number of things you're responsible for.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think mostly people think and on threads that case studies are a lot of work.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: They are.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that deters them.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: They don't know what to do, they don't know how to make it easier.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: So if you had to like give an intro to people, I honestly think a good reminder is what I see people do mostly across the board of my 11 years of experience and hundreds of clients, blah blah blah, is post-testimonials.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's easy.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: I can ask Coley if she were a client, what'd you think?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: And she can write a few sentences and I can put it on a reel.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: It it really doesn't say shit.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not enough.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's great, but there's so much more to the story that I would argue we're gatekeeping.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: We're gatekeeping the whole journey by not telling the context of the story.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, for starters, before we get into how to make this easier and what to do, how the fuck do you define a case study?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: What's the difference between a case study versus a testimonial?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Man, this is when I feel like I should admit that I used to be a math professor and that I'm not a good writer.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like the way to get your case studies, like to the way they get to most the most ROI out of your case studies, is by a storytelling arc.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like you want to be able to tell a complete transformation story of where someone started when they came to you, how you guys did the fucking work and what they got in the end.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: But then I would even argue that the problem with most people and their case studies is that that's where you end it.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, hey, I gave my client this thing and they went off and did their thing.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, yeah, but I'm nosy as fuck.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what happened in 30 days?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: What happened in 60 days?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Where was their business six months later?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I feel like that's the piece that people miss.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: And as the client experience system strategist, what I try to help people like create is the mechanisms to collect the information when you start working together, during the engagement and after.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: But then, like, I literally this week sent out four requests for clients to give me updates that I worked with this spring.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like that should be part of your continued collection of information because I don't know, it it really does depend on what your actual service is.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: But me setting up your systems and you know, us collaborating to do it together, yeah, you're not really gonna have that many wins at the end of 60 days.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's like six months later, how much time did I save you?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: How much more money did you make in this six months than you made in the previous six months?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's the juicy shit.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if you aren't going back to your past clients to have a dialogue, I mean, your case studies are they're they're gonna be good.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong, but they're not gonna be as good as they could be.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with all this and I'm writing notes of more questions to ask you too that others will want to know as well.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think like what I've heard from a lot of clients as they're trying to fall back on business jargon, which I try not to, when people are trying to scale and we want to grow six, seven plus figures, have more clients, one-to-many containers, more productized, one-on-one containers, when we're trying to do that, a lot of clients will tell me that you know they didn't get testimonials from A, B, and C person or they don't have them.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, go back, go backwards and ask them.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: If those people are still alive and they had a good experience, then we can go back and ask them, ideally.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: But some of the things that like I've come up against for questions lately, I started, I've been working on collecting like more case studies information behind the scenes, like more data from more people at more touch points with more specificity, situations, language, like really improving it.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, you know, historically, like over the year, we get testimonials at the end, we have onboarding questions and feedback, we have monthly reports and goals, but I also want to like hear it straight from them at A, B, and C points in the process.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, one thing that happened to me, I've been working on this data behind the scenes and then posting about it in carousels is how I love to showcase it on socials.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I definitely want you to talk about like how you built it into the web pages too, because so many people miss that, and the people that have it together, Kirsten Roll Dan has a fucking killer one.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Hers is like off the chain, also, just like fucking like 25 plus incredible results or more, just like yours.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: But, anyways, one thing that I've come up against is when I have this case study information and I go to post it, people will be like, but they're not finished yet.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: They're still in term with you.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, them's the point.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's the function.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what you know.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was talking about like with colleagues over the last few days is everybody wants to know the black and white simple version of, you know, Charlotte came to me at this point, and then at the end she's there.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: What about the middle?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: The middle is the part where you're working with them.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I that is so important.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, my clients and the structure of my offer makes that the easiest thing that I can collect.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: So my one-to-one clients all get a weekly call with me.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what I realize is if I just say, Hi, how's your week been?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: My fucking clients give me gold without even asking.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: How's your week been?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Coley, I sent out five proposals this week and four people booked.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was like, and then I ask a few follow-up questions, but like, you know, they're giving me that information without me even having to prompt them.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes people will be like, oh, I was at the park pushing my kid on a swing and someone booked me uh that had inquired last week and I had literally forgotten about them.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, cool, that's your systems, you know, working for you.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, the middle, depending on what kind of service you offer, you have to remember to collect the things then.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: It is not a this is where we started, this is where we end, because the middle is how you are probably different than every other person that delivers your service.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: That is the you, that is what you actually did to take them from, you know, A to Z, if you will.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's what makes you different than them hiring someone else.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you are not collecting data on that, if you are not getting them to actually dialogue with you and say it in their own words, you are missing a lot of like key marketing and sales information that you could use to convert more people in sales conversations, Alyssa.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: I totally agree.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And every time I have this conversation and like anything about case studies, it makes me want to push to get to the case studies update section of our offer creation for October even faster, but we we can't go any faster.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: We got 16 people working as feasibly and fast as they can, but I cannot wait to get into this because I will come and ask you more questions when I'm doing it, like literally like the first two weeks of October.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Probably take me all of that time.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I think you will get this.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I think that like a client experience operations thing will take one week to do it and have the team collab and approve it.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, don't laugh immediately.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's gonna take one week, it's like a month.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And my COO is like, no, this is four times as long as you think, and it has like six parts of dependency across each team member, and I'm like, fuck.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Goodness gracious.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: But it makes everything better, it makes it better in the long run, and I think that's such a like tenet of a successful entrepreneur is you have to be forward thinking.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And like earlier this year, I started doing the shit I absolutely hate in the morning first, and then the fun stuff after.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I I still hate it.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: I still fucking hate it.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I wake up and I'm like, this sucks.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to do it after like morning routine, and I cuddle with my cat on our balcony or porch in Denver.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of the like client experience and case studies and op stuff to speak to people thinking like it's hard or putting it off.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it makes your business better and it helps the people that you want to help more, and you get more clients and it makes the team happier.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's good for all of those things.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, the one other thing I was gonna say too about case studies in the middle, so I am collecting case studies information through the client experience, in this case in the middle, but I'm also posting about it in the middle.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, I don't know how you feel about this for marketing purposes, but I'm most inspired to post my marketing when I'm inspired.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm like talking to someone about how our work is going in the middle of their term, and I collect that information and collate it, if I want to talk about it, posting on it then is a really good time because it's really fresh in my mind and I know every piece of granular context.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I put that up and someone messaged me and they're like, But why'd you post this?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: They still have months left with you.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yup, and they're already making fucking sales, so I'm gonna post it now.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then when they finish, I'll post it again.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: So get ready.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna come back.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: But okay, let's talk about like steps of what you do.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that I get asked a lot by clients and community members and that I see in our large threads world is what kind of like what data do I pull?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm a web designer, if I'm a brand designer, if I'm an operations person, hell, you're probably one of like two or three operations people I know that even knows what kind of data to collect for case study.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: The interesting part of collecting your data is that, and I'm gonna pull out Emily Williams since we have her in common.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't know what your offer does, I I get bonus points for saying her name first.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't know what it is that you are doing inside your offer and what the actual results are that you are promising, it makes collecting those pieces of information hard.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because yes, you are asking the wrong fucking questions.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is part of making sure that you are actually asking your clients the right questions, collecting it at the key moments, is to really have your offer dialed down so that, like, for example, for me, most of my people come in and they're like, oh, Coley, I just need a better proposal.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like they understand that I help them with their entire client experience.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: But for quite some time, people were like, oh no, I just need that really awesome proposal that like looks amazing.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then people are just gonna pay me.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, we're gonna give you the proposal, but then we're also gonna do all of these things.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so knowing that the proposal part is just like one bit.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: So for my very specific example, I would want to collect information on how long it took to create that proposal.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: How long did it take for them to send it out, you know, in a given amount of time?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you sent five out, what's your booking rate?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Is that better than what it was when you were using your old method?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: But like if you don't know that the proposal is one of the things that they want to have at the end of your engagement, you don't know to ask about that specific piece.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing that I will like die on this hill, I talk about the three R's all the time.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's rave reviews, referrals, and repeat business.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: We have to take a pulse of where your business is right now so that when we make the changes in your client experience, what we want to see is that you are giving them this five-star client experience where they can't help but give you a good review, whether it's in a case study or it's a written testimonial, like whatever it is, you want to make sure that at the end of the day, you improved your client experience and more clients want to talk about it, which brings in number two, more referrals and which brings in number three, which is they come back to you when you have something that they need next time.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: But if your client experience sucks, the only thing that they're gonna do is talk about you poorly on the internet and then they're never going to rehire you again.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: But if you don't have the data on what your referrals and your, you know, your retention rates look like now, we won't be able to measure if we have actually increased those things six months, one year down the line.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, making sure that you know exactly what your offer is intended to do.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then sometimes, Alyssa, you get results that you didn't expect.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: So for my signature offer, I'm giving you, you know, systems that are completely done in whatever, you know, tool it is that you're using.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: But in every single one of my case study interviews on my podcast, my clients weren't really talking about how awesome the finished systems were.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: That was just like an assumed, I guess.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: They all started talking about how much confidence they felt as a business owner.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: They started talking about how confident they were to raise their prices, how confident they were to turn down bad fit clients.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't until I think I interviewed four in a row, and I actually said it out loud on the podcast, I was like, oh my God, I need to add confidence questions to my intake form.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because if they're all telling me that they're, you know, their confidence is at a 10 now, but it was only at a two before, that's a statistic.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that I can report.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: And like I'd recently started asking them, how confident are you in your prices?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, that was so many people told me.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I knew they were raising their prices, but it wasn't until person after person told me that the reason that they were raising their prices was because new systems gave them confidence.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, that's something that I need to be asking them about from the beginning.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't have to have it all figured out.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what my point in this segment of this podcast is.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: You will learn things simply by talking to your clients and having a conversation.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the best thing to inform the data that you collect for your case studies.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: And we uh we have to ask you about what you're building for this too.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: I have to remember that we have to get into that.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I took even more notes.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think being able to like turn down clients is also another like pinnacle of high-level entrepreneurship.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's so much fun and like a I don't know, like a it's just a new level to get there.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I like one stat that I've seen some of my like leads and clients talk about is just like client success, which means to go back to Emily and also I was waiting for you to mention her because I'm always the one.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like could have turned it into a drinking game.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I do this when I talk about automation and data.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, those are two of my big like buzzwords.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like if I actually drank every time I mentioned those in someone's podcast, I would be so drunk at the end of an hour.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I I told her when we started working together, which has only been like, I don't know, I think we're on like week seven.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, you know that you're like kind of like famous in the industry, like you become category of one, and not that many people make me fucking like nervous.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I was kind of intimidated when we first started talking together, and she was like, No, you weren't.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, a little bit, like I got a little sweaty when I was PTMing you.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: But no, she's gotten so well known in the industry because she knows all the fucking shit that we're talking about.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: She knows exactly the result that her productive offer offers.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: She knows how to collect the data, she's fucking nuts collecting it every term.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Her onboarding is some of the best I've ever seen.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: I have access to SOS too because I work with her and she's incredible.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, she is a wizard at this, just like you are.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And some of my clients will talk about like their client success rate, which I think is super fun.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like, too, for you for confidence, like asking them like how confident were you before versus after, and then the percentage of that increase is another um number.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then also there was one more I was gonna tell you.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, like how much has your income raised or your prices raised?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's an important one.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Confidence.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love all of that.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: But the funny thing was, I just never would have thought to ask that.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I do ask them about their prices, but it was for a completely different reason.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Part of my offer is offer review because I always say we can't create systems for a shitty offer.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, systems are not going to make it better if you don't already have an offer that's profitable, sustainable, and that you enjoy delivering.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've always asked my clients, how much are you currently charging?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've always had access to that because we're literally putting your packages into your CRM.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: But it wasn't really until I was like, okay, how much are you charging?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we're making sure that that is sustainable and profitable.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next step is, okay, how quickly do you raise your prices?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I will admit, I didn't think, I mean, I tell my clients to raise their prices all the time, and some of them roll their eyes at me.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that one of the things that has made more of my clients raise their prices even faster is that I'm talking about that in the case study podcast episodes.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had one client who I don't want to take full credit.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's one thing that I'm really um I'm really cognizant of.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: My clients are not amazing just because they worked with me.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're often amazing because they're doing all of these things at the same time.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I had one client in particular who, within a 48 hour period, she sent out her brand new proposal to five people, four people booked, and it was$5,000.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then she had her highest generating revenue.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Month, the very next month.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And like she's telling me all these things and they're happening in succession.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: And like at the end of the day, what she kept saying was, but the systems made me feel like I could finally charge what I wanted to charge.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that is it.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so if I highlight that part and not the fact that she made this money, because the truth is, when you think about the amount of money that I just said that she made, it actually isn't that much.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I really wanted to just tell people that my clients made a lot of money, I could say, oh no, one of my clients made$24,000 in like two weeks.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I would then feel compelled to tell you, but she has an$8,000 offer.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you know what I mean?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: The statistician in me cannot give you high numbers without giving you context.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I would much rather highlight, you know, how they felt, what, you know, led into them doing this and then what the result was, other than just focusing on those big numbers.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm not a big person who likes to do what I call money marketing.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't want to just continuously tell you how much my clients made because, you know, there's a very big difference between one of my clients with an$8,000 offer versus one of my clients that has a$1,200 offer.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, what result are you gonna get?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, Alyssa, let's take a pause here.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that I want to tell you is most important about case studies, and the reason that it's important to tell their story is people who want to invest a large amount of money with you, they aren't, it's not that they need to be convinced that you can give them your result.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's that they need to be convinced that you can give them the result for the offer and the business that they have.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so one of the things that I take pride on is showing the variety of people that I have helped create systems.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: But like someone who's reading it, who's like a pet photographer, isn't gonna feel the same kind of, oh my God, she can do that for me if they're reading a case study from a website designer.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it really is important to write your case studies in a way that someone can see themselves in that case study.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't just mean what the offer is.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: There are other things that you can help people identify that will that you know will help them convince themselves that okay, no, she has worked with someone like me before and she did get the result that she promised.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love I love that about case studies too.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I like when you have these case studies pages built out on your site all in one place, and then I have them and more I'm working on for carousels too, than when someone is like one of my most discerning, lovely clients ever.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sandra was like, Well, can you show me three case studies of someone at this revenue level with this offer and this price point?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yes, I can.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Let me go pull that data, but in the future, in October, it's gonna be public, so you're not gonna have to fucking go look for it.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm gonna say a bunch of notes that I wrote, and then I'm gonna let you talk about any other case studies, notes, or tips that you have, and how you help people with it too.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, one thing I was gonna say about case studies, and this goes to money marketing, and it goes for all case studies, and I do think, like, yeah, offer and industry are super important.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: I like calling people out on this shit and making us rethink it.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was in a panel yesterday and I was talking about this on a sales call that I got right before this, which is awesome.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: She's a badass.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Excited to work with you, Sasha, but I was talking on this panel yesterday about like like medical terms, because I'm dealing with a whole trying to get my fucking meds in a new city.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not fun, it fucking sucks.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm thinking in medical jargon because I'm talking to all these medical like providers, and I was talking yesterday about duty of care, which is not a fucking word that people throw around in the business world at all.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I've never heard it.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I was talking with all these people, artists and entrepreneurs that were like, I don't want to do fucking social media, being an entrepreneur is so much work.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to do my thing, they want to do their craft, they want to do their art, just as we might be artists and business owners, and you want to do the work, and there's so much else that goes into fucking entrepreneurship.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Look, if we're on, if we're talking about like Instagram socials, if you want people to buy your thing, be it$1,000,$5,000,$15,000, you have a duty of care to show up for the people asking for your help.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: If not, what the fuck are we doing?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: What are we doing?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Instagram is so much work, then don't do it.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Then don't do it.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you can't show up and provide a duty of care to the people that you promised and committed to help and that you say you're helping, don't do it.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel the same way about case studies to call people the fuck out.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think just posting a testimonial, if I push for this like argument really hard, is almost unethical because you're not actually showcasing the entirety of the context of that story, which for me a really easy example would be like Emily made$30,000 in her first five weeks.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And she already was a master marketer, and she already had leads, and she had a launch planned, and she had a collaborator, and her offer is six grand.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: If I don't tell you the context, I'm not telling you the whole story.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's so needed.
• 27:20
  unknown: You go.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's super important, specifically for you in that context.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, Emily could have made that much money on her own, but she didn't have to.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: That is your bit, is that hey, you know, I I could I did my thing, I did my lead generation, like whatever it is that you call it, Alyssa.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: But what did Emily, what did Emily do with the time that she wasn't spending talking to those people herself?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: That is the part of the case study.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yes, we can say how much money, you know, how many leads, conversion rates, all of that is great.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: But also, what did the founder do with the time that you save them?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually scribbled, I'm like you.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm very old at this point, and I feel like my mind is going.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote down duty of care because literally that is the phrase that I have been desperately trying to find.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: And here's how I'm gonna bring it into context.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: When it comes to my client experience systems, I have a lot of people that are stuck in this.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: I have to do it so it feels personal.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I come back and tell them, but then you forget to do it, and your clients are not getting the same consistent, amazing client experience that someone else got when you had the time.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So literally, systems are about a duty of care to make sure that you are taking care of each and every one of your clients in the same fucking fantastic way.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, no, when you see that in my marketing, thank you, Alyssa.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's the phrase that I have been trying to find.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's come from trying to get doctors in Denver to work with doctors in Kentucky.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a blast.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like it comes from a lot of hard work, and of my current practitioner, I feel not given great duty of care because she went on vacation and I love that for her, but she didn't fucking tell me, and now I cannot fill, refill my mental health prescriptions.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's a challenge, man.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like there's a lot of fucking work in there.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very public about this.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyways, um, that's that piece, and I'm glad that that resonated with you as well.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, one thing I was gonna say, yeah, I love the like factor of what time do they get back to.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's our invaluable, we only have a limit on it time is that.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I did not say that sentence well, but I think you know what we understood what you meant, Alyssa.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay, good.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but like that's I mean, that's an invaluable resource for us, especially at the stage of business where most of our listeners are.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where I put my to use fucking corporate terms, which I talked about on a podcast yesterday too, because sometimes they come in handy, where I put my billable hours fucking matters.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: There are mornings where I want to work slow, there are mornings where I want to get some fucking op shit done so I can fucking go outside, but regardless, I know the cost of my time.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: And for operations, this is what I had some of our ops clients do as well.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about this on a podcast episode with my client Danisha, who is here in Denver, and people kept whining about her prices because they could hire someone for ops and virtual assistants that is cheaper.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, Of course you can.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's somebody for everybody.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: This is why mine costs what it costs.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, she handles a lot of the like I'm making a job application and hiring and interviewing and scoring and onboarding and training and management.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Shit that I know for us with 16 people on our team takes hours and hours of billable time, thousands of dollars.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we actually did the calculation for a lead of hers when we knew his like, you know, offer price and his billable hour and cost of delivery.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: We were like, look, you're gonna hire them for this, and you're not gonna spend this much of your billable hours on it.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: So you're saving money.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, this was a man.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: He was like, This is crazy.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I mean, I would kick in specifically for that Donisha example.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just about the billable hours that she is saving him.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: I would bet, I don't even know her.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know how she does it, but if she works with you, she's probably amazing.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: I would bet that the way that she does it makes sure that you don't have to do it again and again and again.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where people struggle with onboarding.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you hire wrong the first time and you don't do a good job onboarding them and giving the people the support that they need to actually do their zone of genius, you end up doing that shit again two to three months down the line.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: So really, I would argue it's billable hours, but eventually she should, you know, calculate some data about how long people keep the people that she onboards, if this isn't case applicable to her.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like if her average person that she hires stays there for like, you know, this long versus something else, that is definitely like a value.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's a number that you want to include in a case study or, you know, just in your marketing on your sales page, because that's how else she is saving them money.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's it's so it speaks to like my ideal client and hers and maybe yours, where I'm not the first person people hire for sales.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Not like I'm not like they're not gonna choose me if they know about me.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, before they met me, they worked with somebody else.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: They've had an experience before.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: It might have been good, bad in between, but they didn't stay.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we work with a lot of like I've been burned before.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's a common thing for us.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: I worked with someone else and it didn't go that well.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I understand it too, actually, to someone who does client experience and systems, the most people I've hired and fired before this year would be virtual assistants and operations.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I also believe in terms of like ethos, I believe in like leadership and hiring accountability.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't keep those people because I didn't hire correctly.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's my fucking fault.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now, of course, once in 11 years I've had a person that I paid 12 grand and she ran off with the money.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: That wasn't my fault.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are parts in it that I there are parts in it I can take accountability for, like, and this sounds crazy, but I increased her responsibilities and pay way too fast.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because I had to.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: She was the best I had, and we needed it, but I shouldn't have, because just like when you lose a big client, you're can be in trouble.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you lose a major department head, you can be in fucking trouble, and then we were left picking up the pieces.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: But hiring incorrectly is massively expensive and so stressful and like filled with fucking grief, etc.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: And one other thing I was gonna say, and I want you to be mindful of your time and let people know how to come find you, because we could talk for like another hour probably, but I need to eat more food.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but one other thing I was gonna say regarding like confidence for systems, I know Coley has a post up on her page, like at the top, that was like she asked, like, what next, and I was embarrassed.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: In terms of like client experience and systems and gathering case studies, like I I feel like a little kid when like mommy catches you and you didn't clean your room.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: If someone is like, I thought I was getting this on this day, and what happened?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: And like the one time it's happened in the last few like months or so, it was like a misunderstanding, and we explained it to them.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: But what you never want is your clients to be more on top of it than you are, like we want to be on top of our fucking shit.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I am in recovery, so that means before I was not in recovery before now, and my operations were nothing like what they are now.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: I used to delay sending large proposals, like any or large contracts, anything from my first biggest contract was like 5,000 a month that I was stoked, and I delayed by like three days, like six years ago.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: I delayed by like three days sending the fucking proposal contract invoice because my systems were a mess.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: And now that they're not, we can onboard somebody, you know, overnight and send all the materials and get the process rolling.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that it's nearly flawless, and if there's a mistake, we will fix it.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I so believe in that of having the back-end infrastructure of your business like just ready to roll makes you so much more confident as an entrepreneur, and it's a lot of fucking work, and you need to hire Kohley for it because if I didn't have a whole slew of operations people, we would not be where we are.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that we can always hire other people for other roles if we have to, but my operations team is indispensable.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: The business can't raw.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they've set up all the systems so that if we ever had to, if someone was on leave, we could bring someone else in to cover it, but I will not lose them.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: And when my COO is like, actually, you need to spend another two grand a month, I'm like, okay, take my money because I trust you, I believe you, we need it.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, I'll pay you 4,500 bucks a month.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: Let's fucking go from there.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: But it's going really, really well.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: So without us talking forever, because I'm trying to keep my episodes to like 30 minutes, but you and I and Emily should do an episode also, because we could all rant on this in perpetuity.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: How can people come find you for client experience, work, case studies being folded in there?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: What's the thing that you're building?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Tell them what you want them to do next to come over to you.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna say one more thing, and then I swear to God, I'm gonna say that.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: When you were talking, I was like, oh, that's one more piece of data that I collect.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how long does it take you to send the proposal?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: I literally asked my clients that, Alyssa.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: The what they tell me in the beginning is two to five hours, and what they tell me at the end of working with me is less than 20 minutes.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to make sure that I ask every single person so that I'm not lying when I say, oh no, 86% of my clients send a proposal in less than 20 minutes after setting up their systems.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I wouldn't know that if I didn't have the data that I'm collecting to back my shit up.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's talk about me building tools.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: So here's the thing.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I've always been really obsessed with doing this.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: I've always been obsessed with data, but with the emergence of AI, I have been able to take the thing that I did in Airtable and then I moved it to Notion, and now I built a tool that is going to help other entrepreneurs do these things.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a tool where it is constantly collecting all of your client information that you feed it in.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: And there are some integrations where it can do that for you automatically.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: But what I want someone to have is that they are never at a loss for what to say about the results that their clients are getting.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm calling it proof.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want more information, go to ColeyJames.com slash proof.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um and there will be additional information there.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: But it's basically a tool that it's how I used to do these things.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's gonna help you have a database that is searchable either with search or with AI, you know, in the box.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're gonna be able to do this so that when you are making your marketing materials, when you are having sales conversations, when you are redoing your sales page, you know exactly what you have done for all of your clients, and it is findable, you know, with your fingertips.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because one of the things that really helps you convert is what I call identity-led case studies.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of, you know, mentioned it when I was saying you want to be able to see yourself, but really there's a lot of identity things like motherhood is a big one for me.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: So many of my clients are mothers, and it's what they think prevents them from having the business that they want.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so I work very hard to connect how systems are essential to business owners that are mothers and how you can, you know, have the best of both worlds if you want.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also I'm on threads, Coley James, and my podcast is Business First Creatives.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you've listened, like to listen to me app, just come find me over there.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: I talk about all kinds of shit, not just Disney, like actual business stuff, but there is a lot of Disney thrown in.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, the Disney has definitely stuck with me for your brand.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: I remember like seeing the ears in all different places.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'll never I think of that when I think of your face.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's so it's working, is what you're telling me.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's working for you, for sure.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: I remember that from whenever we met in in Vex's program, like I think it could have been two years ago, maybe more.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: It could have been 2023 or 2024 that I saw you again.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: We will link all of these incredible things in the show notes.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to check out proof.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's gonna be invaluable and uh definitely for pulling up too, like when you've had lots of clients, if you've been in business one year or two years.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's never too late.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's never too late, and also, you know, I love all my clients and all of their stats and all their case studies.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need all that shit in my head all the time on its own.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: It needs to be somewhere.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember every one of Emily's stats from each fucking month.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's like ten of them.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can't do all that shit for every client.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: When you have a team like you, you need it accessible to every member of your team so that they aren't coming to you to ask you for the thing that they could have found themselves somewhere else.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, I mean all of this is important.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love when my team is like, I was gonna ask you blah blah blah, but Bassem made us an SOP on it, so I looked there first and I was like, SOPs are my favorite.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the one man on our team, he's he's crushing it, one of our best hires, but the team is awesome.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyways, we're gonna link all these awesome links for Coley in the show notes.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Please go find her.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: She's great on threads and Instagram, and I can't wait for proof.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you guys should go chat with her about working together.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: And we will see you next time on the next episode of the DM Sales Gale.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: And Coley, thank you so much for being here.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.