Latest / Beyond the Paycheck / How Crunch Fitness Cut Part-Time Turnover 24% With One Bold Benefits Move
Transcript
- Kelsey Willock (00:02.424) Pamela Brown, EVP, Head of People and Culture at Crunch Fitness. We are so excited to have you this Monday. To kick us off, I'd love for you to share a little bit about your career and background and where you're calling in from today. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (00:15.81) Absolutely, thank you so much. My name is Pam Brown. I am the head of people and culture for Crunch Fitness. And I'm in New York City, Midtown Manhattan. And Crunch is all over the country. We have over 550 gyms plus in six countries. And I've been with Crunch for over three years. And I have a... career in people and culture and HR that spans three decades. Kelsey Willock (00:49.39) Well, I'm really excited to ask you all the questions about your experience, the work, you know, how you show up for your people. But before we get to those questions, I want to start a little bit earlier on and get to know you better a bit personally. So if you'll indulge me, I'm curious, what is your earliest memory of money? Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (01:09.506) So my earliest memory of money is when I was in grade school. So I think the earliest or biggest impact and earliest memory actually was when my parents took me to Disneyland. And I used to say things like I want to be poor and happy and that it didn't matter to me how much money I made. And that day at Disneyland, My parents left their wallets by mistake. So somehow we were able to get into the park, but we didn't have money to do anything. I'm actually not sure if it was Disneyland or Universal now that I think of it. In any event, we didn't have money to do anything except for what was included in the price of the ticket. And by the end of the day, I decided that I could just as happily have money and be happy than be poor and be happy. Kelsey Willock (02:07.254) It's such an important lesson to remember because yes, it can be a beautiful thing not feeling like you need to quote unquote keep up with the Joneses. Money can bring a lot of joy and happiness to your life and ease such as fast passes. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (02:21.566) Exactly, exactly. I maintain that money can't buy you happiness, but I also maintain that it can't hurt. Kelsey Willock (02:30.868) There is a beautiful balance in between those things. Do you remember what your first job was? And if you can recall what you spent your first paycheck on? Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (02:33.974) Exactly. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (02:40.758) Yes, so I worked quite a bit. I always wanted to be independent and I recognized that money could buy some independence. from, I think before I hit the double digits, I started working what we called partying for young children's birthday parties. And I learned how to make candy houses and a few other crafts. And my sister and I would go to people's houses and run their five-year-old's birthday parties. So I was working from before I was even in the double digits. Kelsey Willock (03:18.902) I absolutely love that. And I imagine maybe you spent that money on candy or what was your first expense? Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (03:26.17) I was not supposed to buy a lot of candy, but for sure I did. So that's how I spent my money. And I worked partying until I was about 13. And then I started babysitting until I was 14. And then I worked my first retail job with those part-time working papers, was in a copy shop, and then a series of other retail jobs. And there was definitely some sticker shock the first time taxes came. Kelsey Willock (03:30.286) you Kelsey Willock (03:56.844) I would say that's one of the more common things that I hear of, you I'm so excited that I got my first paycheck, but wow, I actually owe the government. It's not as much as I was anticipating. I remember the first time that I had taxes pulled out and I couldn't understand how that was legal and possible. Now, obviously, it's a part of our daily routine. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (04:17.196) Yes, and my dad, talking about these early money memories makes me think about my dad taking me to McDonald's as a treat sometimes on the weekends or to buy an Archie comic, little treats that I treasured in my childhood. And I appreciated the money that was spent in a different way after I was having taxes taken out of my retail checks. Kelsey Willock (04:44.694) And last question before we start to shift into more about your current role and how those experiences impacted you. What was your most recent embarrassing purchase? Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (04:56.416) most recent embarrassing purchase. Kelsey Willock (04:58.89) or it can be any embarrassing purchase if you'd like. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (05:01.794) Okay, so I would say... I really can't think of an embarrassing purchase, but my most embarrassing moment that happened twice in college was messing around with credit cards, getting myself into a position where it felt very heavy and scary. And I was lucky enough that my parents were able to rescue me both times, but the second time they told me it would be the last time. And that time, the lesson stopped. Kelsey Willock (05:18.702) Hmm. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (05:39.518) So never again. Kelsey Willock (05:42.082) Sometimes you just have to learn those hard life moments by doing, making the mistake and it really does stick with you like you said. How do you think your relationship with money has impacted how you show up for your people and think about pay and benefits? Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (06:00.322) So I think that having worked from a young age and I have two kids and both of my kids have worked as well. I think that I have the lens that if we have more than we need, we're very lucky and that not everybody has more than they need. So I am inclined to want to take care of our employees. And I think about that in the overarching total rewards. Kelsey Willock (06:31.5) I think that's wonderful because being able to show it for people empathy wise and understanding that we all have these unique stories is so important because the senior benefits HR total rewards people leaders we we are a part of so many aspects of people's lives, whether it's their health, their pay, making sure we help pay their mortgage. So I think it's a wonderful perspective that you bring to the table. Where do you think compensation and benefits are breaking down most often today? Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (06:55.554) Thank you. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (07:02.722) I think that it's very important to listen to the voices of your team members. So when I first got to Crunch Fitness, we did an engagement survey, a comprehensive one. It was our inaugural survey. And even speaking about it makes me realize we need to circle back and do some pulse surveys as well to make sure that the changes that we put in as a result of that survey are hitting home in the right way. I think sometimes companies put in benefits thinking that they're making a difference, but maybe they can check their utilization rates and learn that maybe this isn't what the employees need. Kelsey Willock (07:43.796) bring up really important topic, is engagement and utilization. We live in a deeply complex world right now, where folks are deeply inundated, whether it's on social media and the mailers that they receive. And we're also navigating complex benefits environments. Where have you seen success in terms of, you know, better engaging the workforce on the tools that you know they need, especially in response to things like the survey research that you've found. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (08:15.308) So listening to the voices of your team members and then telling and then speaking back and engaging in two-way dialogue but also letting them know, we heard what you said. For example, when I got here, everybody was clamoring for a 401k with a match. We were able to make that happen. And then we were able to go back and say, we heard what you said. Our business leaders supported us in the ask. and we put in that 401k plan with a match. We also looked for benefits that didn't cost the company money, so we were able to find one that was able to provide low interest loans for anyone that's been with us for a year or more. That doesn't cost the company money, but it is a solution for people if they get stuck and they don't want to touch their 401k, and we don't want them to touch their 401k. So we also have benefits that are low cost or no cost for the company. And we look for ways to support our team. So what's important to them? How can we help them? And another important change we were able to successfully get approved was for our part-time population. So we are the only big box gym. that offers part-time employees full benefits. So if you're with us for a year and you've worked on average 25 hours per week or more, we'll consider you full-time for the purpose of benefits. Kelsey Willock (09:54.594) That's super rare, as you even mentioned and know, and I think it's so important as we are also in this world of, know, many folks have multiple jobs these days, especially when I think about Gen Z, the evolution of the workforce is changing. And so meeting that change, I think is such a important shift that you all are meeting the moment in, and I imagine it leads to further retention of the workforce. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (10:20.034) And that's exactly how I got it approved. I believe, and we have improved in the last three years, retention among part-time employees by 24%. And yes, it is working. And so it pays for itself because as you know, churn is expensive. Kelsey Willock (10:32.6) Clearly it's working. Kelsey Willock (10:40.334) Right. So I kind of want to double click into the outcomes that you're looking to achieve when you introduce a new program or a benefit. What's most important to you in terms of ROI? Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (10:53.026) So retention is a great sign of ROI. Increased revenue is always helpful. And probably among the most important, we like to meet members where they are in moments that matter. And the member experience is a direct reflection of the team member experience. So we want to make sure that the benefits we're putting in place are good for the team members as well. So we can look at utilization rates. And if they're low, it might mean we We missed the point on the benefit we introduced and so it's time to pivot. Kelsey Willock (11:27.522) think that you hit the nail on the head. Even if something is a brilliant and great and valuable tool, if people don't use it, the value is not seen. so engagement utilization in the first place is that kind of key indicator. Is this benefit actually working or not? Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (11:44.034) Absolutely. Kelsey Willock (11:45.496) So you mentioned introducing the 401k. You've also touched on a few other ideas that you've introduced to the company. What's a change that you've seen enacted that has gone from attracting talent to really transforming the lives of your employees? Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (12:02.722) So we have put in place programming, which I consider to be part of total rewards. So we have quarterly leadership development for any leaders that are in our company-owned gyms. We also have leadership development for our franchise operations population. And Helping people develop in their career while not considered a traditional benefit. I think development is part of total rewards. So I think that that has made an enormous difference. And then together in that development, we've also offered mental fitness training. So that's learning breathing techniques and mindfulness and gratitude and improving emotional intelligence and That carries through in improved work, improved relationships, sometimes improvements at home, and that counts at work as well. So in fitness, we know relax and recovery are very important. And I think that that's a through point in our lives in general. Kelsey Willock (13:15.97) What I love so much about that is, you I think that we can all remember points in time at, you know, maybe a past employer, maybe earlier on in our career. when we feel like a cog in the wheel and we feel like we're not making impact. And that can lead to leaving organizations. And so you're entirely right. That total rewards and you invest in someone's personal development, it can keep them there longer because they see more impact, they see more personal growth. I certainly know that that would have kept me at prior employers for longer if I had said something like that. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (13:49.858) Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that I'm guided by a mentor I had early in my career who was a CEO I supported and he cared about my development in a way that it was beyond the company I was working for. He wanted to help me with my career as a whole, not just at that one company, which made me feel seen and heard and valued. And so I try to pay that forward. Kelsey Willock (14:18.606) It's those small moments in life that make you realize even if he hadn't realized the impact he made, I love that you're sharing this and it's affected how you show up for other folks in life. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (14:29.474) Absolutely, and full circle moment. I ended up hiring his daughter as an intern two years in a row and now he has another daughter who's in fitness and I'm gonna get a second chance at mentoring her too. Life doesn't come full circle in that way very often, but it's very rewarding. Kelsey Willock (14:34.936) Kelsey Willock (14:44.096) How cool is that? I love it. Kelsey Willock (14:52.672) It's so rewarding and I always like to see it as, it's not this transactional. It's you put good things into the universe, good things come back to you. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (15:00.578) 1000%. And so I think culture is part of the total rewards package as well. So if you're lucky enough to work for an organization with a great culture, that is part of it too. Kelsey Willock (15:14.892) And I imagine organizations that have really good culture also include culture as a part of senior leadership titles, as you well know. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (15:22.946) I can tell you that when I got to crunch, I was just so blown away by the mental fitness program. And it puts psychological safety right at the forefront as well, because we were sharing moments with each other and sharing techniques and practicing things like deep breathing in moments of stress. And it was absolutely refreshing and definitely Kelsey Willock (15:30.958) Hmm. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (15:52.768) It's our culture to care about our team, which is how we got those part-time benefits approved. But there was a bottom line as well that was helpful to our business. So both things can be true at the same time. Kelsey Willock (16:05.528) So I also want to dig a bit deeper on that point, which is when introducing benefits, you had mentioned ROI is important, increasing sales is important. However, when introducing a mental health program, that ROI can be a bit more challenging to communicate up to senior leaders. How did you make that change and convince the team, this is a problem worth solving? Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (16:29.506) So I think, first of all, I'm part of a fitness company. So we probably already had a little bit more buy-in than other organizations as physical fitness plays into mental fitness. And it's easy to see where we have personal trainers coaching for physical fitness, how a mental fitness coach could play a similar role for things like breathing techniques, meditation, gratitude. So it was probably a lighter lift. for buy-in. I would say that what I'm doing now for the vendor that brought the mental fitness training to us is checking retention for him. And for sure, there is a correlation to the people that went through that program. They stay longer, and they're more resilient team members because they went through that training. So we can now prove that back. So if your vendor has data from other pilots that can prove the hypothesis, that could be a way to go. Kelsey Willock (17:34.646) And love how you took the leap of faith first and then you went into, let's really prove out that the ROI is here after we've gotten folks to engage in the program. I think so many people try to flip the nail on the head and in reality, you've got to get people to use the program. Then you can effectively communicate that ROI. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (17:53.15) if it doesn't work, we'll pivot. if you have the trust of your senior leadership and you demonstrate that you are willing to pivot when something's not working, then they'll be more willing to pilot new opportunities. And in fact, I felt like I had a champion in someone on our executive leadership team when I wanted to look at the part-time benefits for people that work 25 hours a week or more. Kelsey Willock (17:55.149) Right. Kelsey Willock (18:16.238) Mm. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (18:19.91) That was, a hypothesis we had to test and then prove out and then show the retention. And it did. We were able to prove it. So I think that that framework is a great framework. Here's the problem. Retention is expensive. This is what we believe it costs. And here's the hypothesis. We think we have a highly part-time population that doesn't have the same access as our full-time team members. So we'd like to test out giving them the same access. It will cost money. This is what it's going to cost. But we believe that it will have ROI of improved retention. Now I can go back and say three years, 24 % among part-time population. Kelsey Willock (19:06.934) it becomes a no-brainer. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (19:08.917) Exactly. Kelsey Willock (19:11.97) What benefits trends do you think are going to shape the employee experience most over the next year? Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (19:18.466) benefits trends that will shape employee experience the most. I think that Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (19:28.576) Everybody is struggling with increases in prices in medical insurance. So I would be well blessed not to mention that. So I would say the way to address that is with creative wellness benefits. so if you have a population, Kelsey Willock (19:33.473) Mm. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (19:51.287) Sorry, can I read? Okay, so you can check your utilization through your broker. I'm gonna just do that over if that's okay. Perfect, okay. So you asked me. Kelsey Willock (19:52.142) Now you're Kelsey Willock (20:02.008) We can edit it. Kelsey Willock (20:06.279) Pam, do you mind if I ask you the question one more time? Okay, great. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (20:10.571) Perfect. I got thrown off. Kelsey Willock (20:14.242) Perfect. What benefits trends will shape the employee experience most in the next year? Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (20:20.705) So many employers have the challenge of increasing prices of medical insurance. Some of that's driven by prescriptions and GLP-1s. I think that something employers can do to get in front of that for employees is being creative in their wellness benefits. So as an example, we have corporate partners where we offer discounts on an already high value price. So you can work with, and that's no cost to companies. So what other no cost wellness options do you have to get your team members healthy? So where our employees already have free memberships, we are looking at how many of our employees are using preventative care. And we're going to put out some rewards for people that actually use the preventative care because we know that will increase. the healthiness of our employees, which will also be a factor in how much our health insurance does not pull up. Kelsey Willock (21:26.614) Yeah, I think that the idea of how do you incentivize people to use these great tools is so important because so often in healthcare, we really only use tools when we really need them. And how we get people to lead healthier lifestyles, show up for themselves, go to that annual appointment is so important. people's... Calendars are busy. Life just simply gets in the way sometimes. So incentives are a great way to actually help people do the thing that the employer is sponsoring. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (21:57.641) Instead, and if you have a low budget, you can use a lottery for your incentives. You can also strategically put reminders. For example, in my signature, I have the information for our EAP, our employee assistance plan, our EAP, and the phone number and the code in order to get through. So every time I send an email, people get a reminder that we have this benefit. Kelsey Willock (22:03.15) Mmm. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (22:23.817) one on the people and culture team uses that in their signatures and we are also cross promoting it through our culture committees. Kelsey Willock (22:33.206) It's so important again, like EAPs, we know there's oftentimes struggle with utilization of such programs. So continuous reminder beyond, know, annual enrollment is critical. Meeting people at the time of need, as you've mentioned before. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (22:48.627) Exactly. I love for you can also be creative when you're negotiating for your EAP. Our EAP comes with education included and it can serve anybody in the household of an employee even if they're not related. And if an employee separates from us involuntarily, they get the services for 18 months afterwards. as well. So you can negotiate creative benefits with your EAP provider. Kelsey Willock (23:19.566) It's great and it's super actionable that everyone should remember to do after this conversation. I always love when people leave us with, know, what's something you can take away and immediately do. A quick email to your EAP is an important reminder. Last question for you. What's a 30 day experiment our listeners could try to boost their financial well-being or engagement with their company? Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (23:43.039) So 30-day experiment, I would start with calling your vendors if you have a 401k. We have a benefit that does low-interest loans. They are willing to get on the phone and give education to our team members. Our EAP is willing. So I would check all of your vendors and find out what hidden benefits they might have. And don't just call your vendors. call your broker as well. Your broker might have things like perks partners or other benefits that they haven't told you about. Kelsey Willock (24:22.284) I love that. Another quick email that you can easily send and can unlock a lot of value that might not even cost the organization a dollar more. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (24:30.283) And I have one other idea. If you have a Slack channel or an intranet, could have, or for example, we have Crunch Connected, which is our learning management system, and we're always looking to get utilization up. I might actually take this idea up myself. Maybe I will create a financial wellness channel where we can give each other tips. And then I can use prizes in order to incent Kelsey Willock (24:53.217) Love that. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (25:00.513) participation, but everybody can learn something from each other. Kelsey Willock (25:04.438) especially since money conversations can be so taboo, allowing a safe space for it, I think can really make people feel immediately supported. In a time where there's questions around financial well-being are quite common, given the environment that we're in right now. Pam, thank you so much for joining this conversation today. I learned so much from you and I could certainly keep talking to you for at least another hour. But I know I need to give your time back. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (25:21.879) Absolutely. Kelsey Willock (25:34.25) Where can our listeners connect with you beyond this conversation? Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (25:38.059) Thank you, I love that you're asking that. My LinkedIn, I am Pamela J. Brown. I'm easier to find if you use my middle initial J, because there are a lot of Pamela Browns, and I'm the one with crunch fitness. And if you follow me on LinkedIn or connect with me on LinkedIn, you'll also be invited to follow my Multiplying Moves newsletter. And Multiplying Moves is all about scaling your business. It's also, I've incorporated the word moves in there because at Crunch Fitness, I learned how to move my body. So, and if we all work together well, then we can multiply those dollars, those benefit dollars. And if you want to learn more, that would be where to go. Kelsey Willock (26:19.714) Thank you so much, Pam. I've read her blog. It's a wealth of knowledge. So absolutely recommend anyone that's tuning in to please subscribe. And thank you so much again, Pam, for being a part of this conversation. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your week. Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (26:27.819) you Pamela J. Brown, Crunch (26:33.377) Thank you so much. Appreciate being here and also appreciated meeting you previously and learning about financial wellness. Thank you. You too. Kelsey Willock (26:41.368) Thank you so much. Have a good one, Pam.