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Disccovering Bitcoin with Kontext · Discovering Bitcoin

0:00
If you're discovering Bitcoin in Australia, you don't need
0:03
complexity, you need clarity. Hard Block offers simple Bitcoin
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buying, flat fees and education that respects your intelligence.
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That's it. I see the world through an
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entirely different lens. It doesn't just give you
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confidence, but it gives you hope.
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Take like we're squandering our energy, our life force.
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So Bitcoin is changing that. Maybe it's like it's healing
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energy. It gives you a kind of of a
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sudden feeling, right? Deep and deep and deep in the.
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Immortal. Words of the doors, the time to
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hesitate us through. Discovering.
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Context. What's going on, man?
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Hey man, I'm. I'm doing good.
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Thank you. How are you?
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Yeah, I'm stoked, man. I, I said to you, I'll repeat
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myself for the benefit of the listeners.
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I had a string of excellent quality conversations of late on
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this podcast and very honoured and grateful for that.
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But you're a part of that run, man.
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And I've been looking forward to this chat for some time since,
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well, I had source node on and I saw you post his podcast late
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last year, maybe maybe a little halfway through last year or
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something, and you put me on the source Node.
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And so I started listening to his.
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I wouldn't even call it a podcast.
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It's more like this narrative production of the Search.
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I don't even know, man, that sounds wank.
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But anyway, my point is that, you know, these dots are
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connecting, these stars are aligning.
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And anyway, it's just an absolute joy to to be able to
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speak to you, man. Thank you.
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Awesome, awesome. I'm, I'm very honoured to hear
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that and I'm also very happy to be here and happy to have put
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you on Source Notes podcast because yeah, I kind of stumbled
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upon it myself at some point. Like I was following him on
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Noster, but I had no idea about his podcast and his, yeah, his
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audio production journey. And yeah, I remember when I
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posted about it, I was like, oh, that, that sounds, sounds cool.
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But I'll, I'll have to put it in the to list and list.
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And then a long time past. Then I was listening to him on
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your past podcast and I was like, oh shit, I still haven't
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listened to it. So I have to go back now.
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I'm like half now. I'm like halfway through.
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I haven't even finished it yet. But but yeah, it's a, it's a
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great thing that it's that it's put together and put out there
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so. Yeah, it sure is man.
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How did you discover Bitcoin? I don't.
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Remember exactly like what the first touch point was, but it
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must have been pretty early because I remember hearing about
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the Bitcoin Wikipedia page being taken down and thinking to
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myself that oh, that's good because we don't need Wikipedia
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page for a fake Internet money. And that that turned out like I
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was listening. To what are you like?
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I was listening to Phil Champagne's, I think it was the
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book of Satoshi a couple of years ago while I was in
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Australia, actually. That's when I really went deep
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down the rabbit hole, to be honest.
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And yeah, then in that book I, I learned that that was already in
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like 2010 or something. So it was super early, and I
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should have been primed for it because I knew that a debt based
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monetary system was, you know, a scam at that point already.
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But for me, the stumbling block was the fact that Bitcoin
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wasn't, you know, directly tied to any physical assets.
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And that was like what invalidated to that idea for me
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at the time. So when I finally actually got
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into it, it was 2017 and a couple of my friends were buying
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it. It was NGU.
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And yeah, I just ended up buying a little bit as well, then Start
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learning about it, and then it started evolving from there.
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It's the NGU man. It's it's the siren song of the
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NGU. Everybody can think that they're
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holier than thou and that they they discovered Bitcoin in some
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divine inspired way. And there are people out there
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like super early doors that obviously read the white paper
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and was like, yeah, sounds cool. But I reckon anything sort of
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past maybe 2013 is the NDU that that really catches people's
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attention. And still to this day, you know,
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that's why my people adopted ultimately.
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And then it separates the wheat from the chaff.
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It's like, all right, you're here for the NGU.
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Now, are you willing to do the work and go a little deeper than
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that or you're just going to ride it to the top so and go
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back to real estate or whatever the fuck it is that you think is
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more valuable? Yeah.
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That's that's how it tends to be usually, yeah.
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It's, it's funny because it, it's a challenge to people
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basically. I think it, it will stop the
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incurious in their tracks and they just won't even bother with
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it. It will obviously attract, you
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know, people with agreed mindset that want to accumulate more
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dollars or whatever. But there's a certain cohort of
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individuals that I think land on this thing and they, they see
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past the NGU fairly quickly and they start exploring whole other
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areas that they, they connect back into their own life or
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discover whole new rabbit holes that that veer off from this
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main trunk, so to speak. Yeah, yeah, I guess it's you
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know how how this thing goes. Came for the gains, stayed for
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the change. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll.
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We'll, we'll, we'll get to that. I think we'll get to that.
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Well, it must have changed. It must have affected you some
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somewhat because you've ridden a fair bit over the years.
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And one of the things that I think it's probably one of your
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most deeper and sort of articulate pieces is this thing
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that you published back in 23. And that was a while ago, to be
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honest. Like, yeah, it's pretty wild.
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We're in 26 now, and all this time has passed, you know,
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particularly since the world shot the bed in 2020.
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But you obviously had like you're on, you got hooked by
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this thing and you, you were so immersed that you decided to
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create. And not to put too fine a point
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on it, but like you call it yourself unified creation energy
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theory. Like this is an attempt to, to
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articulate like it's what is that thing that they used to
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carry on about the theory of everything?
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Like the, you know, the like it was like sharing theory or
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something. It's it's but but but it's got
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it's got way more depth than just physics.
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So anyway, all it is to say your journey from like NGU tech to
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writing this this well, it's not even an essay.
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It's longer than that. Must have been pretty, pretty
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wild, harrowing, interesting. Tell me about it.
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Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, that was, that was some
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interesting times. I mean, 2022 and 23 was when
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things really started to click for me in in many ways,
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including including Bitcoin. And yeah, I just started putting
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like these different strings of information together and trying
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to find like a unifying sort of theme and unifying ideas in, in
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different subjects, some more esoteric, some more religious,
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some more philosophical, some more technical, some more
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economical. And yeah, at some point in, I
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think I was actually travelling in Cambodia at the time when I
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was, I already wanted to like, I was quite lost.
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I'm, I'm lost once again in my life, to be honest, on my path
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at the moment. But I was also quite lost in the
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beginning of 23. And one of the things that I was
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sort of thinking about was like how, how I can contribute to
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Bitcoin and to the space and to this movement.
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Because at that point it was more than clear to me that this
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is like probably 1, if not the most important things going on
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during our lifetimes. So I wanted to become a part of
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that in one way or another. And I remember I was having this
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idea of just doing this sort of at least like trying to do this
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sort of self-made YouTube documentary kind of style thing
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where I, I go deeper into the weeds of how like the Fiat
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system and the whole parasitic system works.
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But as I was sort of starting to gather material for this, then
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like, yeah, at some point this sort of, I don't know if I could
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call it divine inspiration or, or madness or something came
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over me and I started start putting together ideas of that
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big piece that I eventually called unified creation energy
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theory. So.
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Bitcoin was the case, yeah. Right.
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Yeah, I would say so. I would say so because like I
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wasn't, I've never been, I've always been like somewhat
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involved in these like what, what you would call maybe woo
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woo subjects or, or like esoteric subjects.
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But a lot of it came through the lens of Bitcoin and through
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different Bitcoin podcasts. And and yeah, it it was sort of
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the thing that finally started like tying all the all the
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things together for me do. You know why you felt the need
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to seek out this knowledge? There was obviously from what
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you just said, you know, you had Bitcoin, but prior to that,
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perhaps you were sort of curious about all of this esoteric
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information. And then you somehow, I don't
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know, like why did you feel the need to seek out this knowledge
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in the 1st place and then attempt to unify it all in, in,
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in this piece with the catalyst being Bitcoin?
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Like I, I I'm so curious to to to understand how a neutral
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protocol for transmitting value across time and space can lead
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to such a big idea. Well, the curiosity in general,
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I guess was mainly driven just by the, by the want and the
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desire to understand how, how the world works basically.
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I guess that's, that's one part of it.
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It definitely had something to do with also me taking up the
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practice of yoga in 2022, which was sort of precursor to, to me
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really starting to understand the interconnectedness of of
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like the physical body, the mental body and the spiritual
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body. And from there I could sort of
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extrapolate that idea onto onto the world.
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And why I think why Bitcoin became this sort of catalyst was
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because for a long time I already had like, I was always
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very skeptical of the idea that the material world and the
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spiritual world are like 2 separate or even mutually
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exclusive things. And for me, the idea of an, an
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honest on uncorruptible monetary system that sort of provided the
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foundation for a worldview that in which spiritual and material
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world would not be exclusive in any way, but rather they would
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be complementary to each other. And also in, in some sense, I
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would say in a, in a larger grand scheme of things, I, I
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would say that they're necessary for each other as well.
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Because, you know, pure materialism, pure physical
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existence without a spiritual aspect to it is, is not the
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ideal way to live and it's going to sort of self destruct and
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degenerate at some point. And, and likewise, I, I, I, I
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think that a big reason of why there hasn't been like a large,
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large scale sort of spiritual awakening kind of event in our
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lifetimes, at least as as far as, or at least as far as we
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know in history is because we've been through this system.
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We've been so tied into the physical aspect at the end, the
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material aspect of this realm. So I think that if we can get
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the physical material aspect right, if we can get it working
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in in symbiosis or in a synergistic way with with sort
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of our mental well-being and spiritual well-being, then I
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think that can provide a foundation for a larger type of
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awakening at least. At least that's my hope.
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Yeah, you're in a safe space that is right up my alley.
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I blame Descartes, you know, there's a lot.
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The history seems to be littered with a lot of shitty ideas from
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well meaning people or potentially not well meaning
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people. If you consider Keynes 'cause
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he's a fucking pedophile and he effectively single handedly with
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his shitty idea brought about the entire modern Fiat system
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whilst trying to fuck little boys.
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And I don't care how crass that sounds, that's just the truth of
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it. And he can go # sand just to
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bring it back to being a little bit more polite.
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But Rene Descartes, you know, I think therefore I am that that
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split. He just, he just runs straight
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down straight at materialism and, and just sort of literally
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embodies that entire, entire entire philosophy.
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And, you know, it comes off the back of guys like Newton and,
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and this sort of reductionist movement.
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There was a long, there's a long period of time in my life where
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I was right alongside guys like Richard Dawkins.
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And I really dug his book on weaving the rainbow where he was
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able to appreciate the beauty of the rainbow as a rainbow, but
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also understand it on a physical level and know that it was just,
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you know, light refracted through water and still
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appreciate the beauty and the blind watchmaker.
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And then, you know, the Sam Harris and the Four Horsemen and
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I mean, all of that, all of that kind of thing.
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But it was unsatisfying ultimately.
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Like it only leads you to OK, cool.
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So like ultimately it's just just ground where just we're
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just in the, in the physical plane and, and that's kind of
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it, you know? And then I discovered Steiner.
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I don't know if you're familiar too much with Rudolf Steiner and
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particularly his notion of anthropothesis, spiritual
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science, where he literally spent an entire man like 30-40
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years trying to connect these two dots between spirituality
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and science, which appears like a paradox to our contemporary
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modern brains who've been grown up on Newton and Descartes and
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Dawkins and all those guys. And, you know, it's, it's
19:49
largely impenetrable. You kind of need to stick with
19:53
it to read it. But it's just like any other
19:56
kind of it's it's it's it's, it's like like in the Bible when
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Jesus will. Tell the the disciples the truth
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of the matter, but he'll do a parable for everybody else.
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You know, that wisdom is still the same, but you've got to kind
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of do a little bit of work to unpack it.
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Anyway, all that is to say, yeah, that that that is like an
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eternal quest. And I, I mean, there's guys like
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Robert Persig, you know, who tried to do that with the notion
20:25
of quality and the metaphysics of quality and things like that.
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But you've brought like a whole sort of new level to it where
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you're just trying to really unify quite literally everything
20:38
together. And it's, it's, I mean, you stay
20:42
at the top. And beware, this is a fairly
20:44
long text. It's 7000 words like yeah man.
20:48
Bitcoin doesn't announce itself. It reveals itself not in the
20:52
moment you buy, but in the moment you stop thinking of it
20:55
as a trade, start sensing it as a discovery.
20:59
This episode is supported by Hard Block, an Australian
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hardblock.com.au.com. Yeah.
21:44
And, and I have, I have some notes that I've taken since I
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haven't updated really the essay or, or that piece since, since I
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wrote it or since I had like the last draft.
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I when I started writing it, I wrote like 5 different drafts in
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two months or something. And yeah, it went from like 6
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pages to 21 pages. I, I, I think it's, it's exactly
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21 pages at the moment as APDF. But yeah, I, I could and I, I do
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plan to continue and update it and expand on it as much as I
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can with, with a little bit of new knowledge that I've gathered
22:33
from, from here and there. But yeah, I've, I've I've heard
22:37
of of Steiner and I have him on my reading list, which is which
22:45
is a long list, but yeah, I haven't, I haven't like read his
22:53
his books in like as myself or I've I've only heard of his
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ideas through through other people is what I'm trying to
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say. Yeah, so far, totally, I mean.
23:06
It seems like it seems like an interesting rabbit hole to to go
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through for sure. Yeah, I recommend starting with
23:13
the philosophy of freedom. It gets hyper technical at at
23:18
times, but the philosophy of freedom was the thing that kind
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of it all clicked in my mind because I was able to like it's
23:27
it. It quite clearly connects neatly
23:30
with Austrian economics, particularly Misessian like
23:35
notions of, of praxeology and human action, which I think, you
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know, aligns. And I mean, you even kind of
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touch on that a little bit in, in your, in your essay, you
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know, energy being expressed in layers.
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Energy is basically action. You know, we kind of like, I
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mean, I think you say like you vote with energy, basically
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money, time, attention, prayer, yeah, consumption choices, all
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of that sort of stuff. And for me, that's kind of like
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I read this piece, I don't really want to talk about your
24:12
podcast Spiral Sovereignty, basically where it's kind of
24:17
like a field of participation. And if the field is incoherent,
24:23
the actions upon which that field take place, like they they
24:27
suffer from incoherence and they effectively degrade over time.
24:32
And you're basically getting at a similar sort of thing in, in
24:38
that that layered model that you have where you've sort of
24:41
bridging all of these things together kind of kind of centred
24:44
around Bitcoin, I suppose. Yeah, it it does sound very
24:50
familiar to to what I'm writing there.
24:52
And yeah, I guess one of the points that I'm I'm making is
24:55
the fact that if there's like either how how do I put it?
25:07
If, if there's a dissipation of energy from the system or like
25:13
resistance or like parasitic forces.
25:17
Yeah. Like, and then, yeah, exactly.
25:20
A leak. That's that's the word I was
25:22
looking for. Thank you.
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It's like a plan, you know? Yeah.
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And that that just like in time, it degenerates the whole thing.
25:32
And that's basically what's have been happening with money, I
25:35
guess. And since on that material
25:39
physical layer that is happening with the money, then we started
25:45
like subconsciously start compensating for it through
25:50
putting in more of our attention and energy from like the mental
25:55
and spiritual layers. And thus we're starving the
25:58
mental and spiritual layers. And here we are like, voila, we
26:02
are, you know, we don't, we don't pray, we don't meditate,
26:06
we we have no connection with God.
26:08
We don't have proper philosophical mental framework
26:15
for how to live our lives. We're just sort of surviving.
26:20
I mean, most of us. So I think that's why, you know,
26:25
Bitcoin is such a big piece of that or like the whole energy
26:32
leakage thing is, is very important.
26:35
Yeah, like plugs, it plugs the leak, it plugs the hole where
26:40
the energy leaking out of. And it's no longer like in a
26:44
positive feedback loop because it's getting siphoned off quite
26:48
literally like that energy is getting siphoned off,
26:50
particularly from the middle class and the people that
26:52
actually go out and do the work to create the value and and
26:58
quite literally build civilization off the back of all
27:01
of that. And then you have these, yeah,
27:05
the the bureaucratic political class that are that are just
27:12
siphoning off all of this energy and redirecting it to I guess
27:16
wherever it sort of suits them or themselves or whatever.
27:21
And, and what's frustrating, I think from a Bitcoin of
27:25
perspective, and it's difficult not to feel frustrated, but you
27:30
also have to be kind of be mindful of just, you know, not
27:33
letting get the best of you. But they, there's a lot of
27:38
people, there's a huge code of individuals that will just
27:41
screech online about this, that and the other and how unfair
27:45
this is and we should be doing this and blah, blah, blah, blah.
27:48
They fail to go that little bits.
27:50
That's that's one step deeper. And when you're having
27:53
conversations with people in real life and you and you say,
27:59
dude, I've, I've been saying this like, we've got to look at
28:02
the money because the money's broken.
28:05
And then they look at you like a dog that's been shown a card
28:07
trick and you know, you're like, what?
28:11
Yeah, it's, it's, it's very easy to point at problems, but it
28:14
takes a little bit of work and effort to like, figure out what
28:18
the causes of those problems are.
28:22
And yeah, that's, that's one of them signs of the times, I
28:27
guess. And also like I wanted to make a
28:30
quick mention that you you mentioned some, some books, one
28:34
book that really like put the gears grinding for me as well in
28:38
that journey was The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot.
28:45
And that's also sort of pulling together ideas from, from sort
28:52
of different angles, mostly like quantum physics and stuff.
28:56
But yeah, it's, it was a big piece of, of me starting this
29:04
unification process of, of different disciplines as well.
29:08
So anybody listening and who finds these subjects
29:13
interesting, I I definitely recommend and to you as well.
29:17
Yeah, I haven't. I haven't heard of that book but
29:20
I'm just looking it up now. There's a there's a pretty long
29:28
interview with him on YouTube as well.
29:30
I haven't actually looked at look listened to it yet, but but
29:36
yeah, it's the book itself was written a while back.
29:39
It was like 91 or something I think, and the guys long past
29:45
since. But but yeah, it was an eye
29:47
opening read for me at least for sure.
29:50
Kind of like, I mean, there's been work on this for like,
29:56
well, centuries really. I, I was, I can't remember
30:01
exactly. It was a Schumpeter.
30:04
Maybe there was some dude that was like reading the Vaders or
30:09
the Upanishads. I can't remember which one it
30:11
was, but he was basically trying to translate that and then it
30:14
upended his entire view or model of physics.
30:19
Oh man, I can't remember his name might have Schopenhauer, I
30:22
don't know. It was one of them.
30:24
And like there, there is. I'm actually looking right now
30:30
at a book called The Dao, The Dao of Physics by I don't know
30:37
how to pronounce that name, Fritjof Capra.
30:40
But basically he in that he explores parallels between
30:43
modern physics and Eastern mysticism.
30:45
And so that kind of interlinks those two things as well.
30:50
And I mean, if I'm the kind of person, right, I, I'm interested
30:54
up into, into like physics and learning about sort of like the
30:58
mechanics of it up to a point. But I'm much prefer to listen to
31:03
someone like Ram Dass just say something and then be like, Yep,
31:07
that's pretty much it. Hey, cool, case closed.
31:11
I'm going to the pub. That's kind of.
31:15
Good. You know what I mean?
31:17
It's like. I don't need to know the
31:19
minutiae and the and the and reduce it to it's to it's, you
31:24
know, tiny weeny little detail. I just you can almost intuit it
31:29
in your heart, you know, and and if you have coherence between
31:33
your heart and your mind, well, yeah, like you can just be like
31:37
cool. Like, there's like a, a line in
31:40
Futurama where the professor's trying to explain to Fry
31:44
something about how the spaceship works or something,
31:46
and he starts like going on about it and Fry's like, magic.
31:50
Got it. Just because the conversation
31:53
quits. That's kind of me.
31:56
I'm just like, yeah, cool, sounds good.
31:58
I'm down with all of that. Duality sucks.
32:00
We're all one. And, you know, I can sense that
32:03
in my bones. So Yep.
32:05
Next. Next subject please.
32:08
Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm kind of similar.
32:11
I'm, I much prefer the bird's eye view or like a bigger
32:18
picture view, then then going into details like I'm, I'm, you
32:24
know, fairly familiar with, with quite a few different subjects,
32:28
but I would never call myself an expert in any of them.
32:33
Yeah, so the generalist, I mean, but there's power in being a
32:37
generalist because it just, it just is a testament to your
32:40
curiosity rather than just nurning out on this one thing.
32:46
I don't know, Like I used to move in academic circles and I
32:49
used to think I wanted to be like an academic.
32:51
And I was doing my masters. And I just remember going to
32:54
these events and talking to these people about their theses.
32:57
And I was just like, this is so boring, man.
33:00
This is so boring. Like, no one cares.
33:02
No one cares. You know, we need to step out of
33:05
this little silo, this bubble. And yeah, the world's a bigger
33:10
place than your 17,000 word master's thesis on whatever the
33:15
fuck. Yeah, yeah.
33:19
Quick break just to say, if you're enjoying the show and
33:21
digging what you hear, please consider supporting discovering
33:24
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33:55
Dot net. Thank you for listening and
33:57
thank you for your support. How has discovering Bitcoin
34:03
changed you? Oh.
34:08
That's a tough one. I mean, like I said, I was at
34:19
the same time when I was discovering Bitcoin, I was sort
34:21
of discovering other things as well.
34:23
So it's, it's difficult to say what, what has had which impact
34:31
exactly. But I think the main thing is,
34:37
you know, I've, I've become sort of an anti hope person lately
34:47
because I've been hoping for a lot of things and usually things
34:50
don't work out the way you hope them hope for them to work out.
34:55
But I would say that there is definitely a big grain of truth
35:04
in the saying that Bitcoin is hope.
35:06
But I would, I would even put it a little bit differently.
35:10
I would put that I would say that Bitcoin reignited faith in
35:19
humanity for me and faith in, in the future, I guess in, in being
35:30
able to build a better future to, to put it bluntly, or.
35:38
Yeah, it's what it's funny how it does that because I mean, I
35:44
can imagine it. It feels to me like we're
35:48
reasonably similar people in that, and I'll speak for myself
35:53
here, but you know, black pilled watched, you know, documentaries
35:57
like the Zeitgeist and the corporation and a lot of Adam
36:04
Curtis, you know, all watched over by Machines of Loving
36:07
Grace, Century of the Self, hyper normalization and you
36:13
just. Kind of Horsemen of the
36:14
Apocalypse. You know what I mean?
36:16
Yeah. And you just think it's just a
36:18
shit show, man. And all of these evil, yeah,
36:20
evil demons are just running the place and like, what do you do
36:26
about that? And yeah, dark man.
36:29
And because the people around you similar to kind of even
36:33
with, with Bitcoin, like they don't want to hear it, man, you
36:36
know that they don't want to know how shitty the world is.
36:38
They kind of get it. They feel it already.
36:40
It's just that like, you're the kind of person that knew her.
36:43
But I need to know exactly how shitty it is and what is working
36:46
under the hood so that I can name it, classify it, and then
36:51
go about my day whinging about it in a super articulated
36:55
fashion. It's like that helps.
36:57
Fucking no one, yeah, though. But you're right, man.
37:02
And then you pass through this Bitcoin filter and you're like,
37:06
oh, oh, well, that's nice, isn't it?
37:09
Cool? But you mentioned that word
37:12
hope, and I get very hung up on that word.
37:18
I don't know if I'm comfortable using it because, you know,
37:21
there's that whole saying of like, it's the hope that kills
37:24
you. And I, I don't want a cohort of
37:26
Bitcoiners out there hoping on this thing.
37:32
And ultimately it just relies on adoption, which means number go
37:35
up and that failing to materialize in any way, shape or
37:40
form. But I guess then the question
37:42
is, well, at what scale are you talking about?
37:44
Because in the Bitcoin jungle, they seem to be doing it right
37:48
now. It's happening, it's working.
37:51
But if you talk globally, well, you might have to wait a little
37:57
longer, you know, So maybe it is just a question of scale between
38:00
yourself, your immediate family, your friends, your community,
38:06
and then figure that out. It's kind of like farmers, how
38:09
back in the day you had to use synthetic agrochemicals at large
38:13
scale because otherwise how are you going to feed the world?
38:16
And it's like you don't have to feed the world, you just have to
38:19
feed your community. Yeah, it is it is a scale
38:26
question and it is definitely a time horizon question as well.
38:31
Because I, I feel like once you go a certain way into the rabbit
38:37
hole, you can easily get like, yeah, super, super orange pill,
38:43
I guess, and, and super bullish. And, you know, you start
38:48
thinking that, oh, like right, like now that I get it, Like
38:52
everybody's going to get it like in the next, I don't know, four
38:55
years or something, two years, whatever.
38:58
And it's no, it's not happening that fast.
39:01
Like I'm sorry but it takes time.
39:05
It does, and you know, you can talk about time preference and
39:10
lowering it to the cows come home, but you also have to live
39:14
it. You have to feel it and you have
39:15
to wake up with it everyday. And if you're one of those
39:19
people that tries to avoid the price, looks at the price and,
39:26
and it's down up, whatever, and that has some sort of impact on
39:30
your mood, You probably have to go a little bit deeper than
39:34
where you're currently at. And but you that's a discipline
39:39
that takes work. I mean, you know, that's that's
39:41
quite literally proof of work. And I guess it's because you've
39:47
figured out the stable base, you know, from which to operate your
39:51
life on. And then you go out and try and
39:54
interact with others and they're not operating, operating on that
40:00
stable base, but they're wishing somehow that they could, but
40:03
maybe they can't articulate it. And then you try and say, well,
40:07
hey man, like let me show you this Bitcoin thing.
40:10
And they reel and their eyes widen.
40:13
They want to run away. Kind of like, I guess it would
40:21
be the similar sort of thing with Christianity, you know,
40:23
like when that was trying to spread throughout the,
40:26
throughout the world. There's, there's like a good 300
40:28
years before like anything really sort of started
40:31
happening, right? Yeah.
40:36
And yeah, regarding the, the price and the time horizon
40:39
thing, it's also like, yeah, if you're, if you still get
40:43
emotional about the price, then you know, maybe you are relying
40:49
on, on Bitcoin a little bit too much.
40:51
Maybe you should diversify and not not in terms of like
40:55
investments per SE, but just diversify in terms of security
40:59
like. Yeah.
41:01
Like, yeah, like I don't know, physical things or skills or
41:08
whatever, businesses even, even even stocks, I guess, but I
41:13
don't know, looking at how, how much like financial shenanigans
41:20
are going on everywhere, I, I wouldn't recommend investing in
41:24
stocks really. Although I I will also say the
41:29
caveat that I'm not an expert in investing in anything, so don't
41:33
take my word for it, but. Investing in yourself, I think
41:40
that's the the main game. But like in, in the like in the
41:45
big picture thing, I think the main thing is sort of this old
41:49
school investing sort of mantra or the golden rule that what,
41:57
what really matters in the end is cash flow or, you know, if
42:01
you're Bitcoin denominated already, it's stats flow.
42:05
So it's like if you, if you have a little bit more in your, in
42:10
your accounts, in your wallets at the end of the month, then
42:14
you then you did the beginning of the month or at least the end
42:18
of the year versus beginning of the year and you're doing good.
42:21
You know, you don't have to worry about whether whether
42:25
those, you know, million stats buy you 3 TV's or 300 TV's or
42:33
whatever. It's you, you, you're already
42:40
sustaining yourself from whatever, you know, whatever
42:45
your line is day-to-day. So for me, like investing or, or
42:54
buying Bitcoin with the idea of sort of trading it, even if it
42:59
is in the, in the very long term, it's, I'm not going to say
43:05
that it's wrong, but I think it's probably not the best
43:10
choice for most people because yeah, like, like in the end,
43:18
it's, I mean, in the end, money is, is a tool to, to live a good
43:25
life. So just, you know, being overly
43:31
concerned or overly emotional about your, about your
43:36
investments, about your net wealth, net worth, it's, it's
43:42
not really, not really inducive to good quality of life, I, I
43:47
would say. No.
43:52
If you're measuring your net worth in in dollar terms or
43:56
Bitcoin terms, again, you need to do some more work.
43:59
You need to do some more inner work.
44:02
You need to measure your net worth in in the kind of quality
44:06
human being that you're trying to that you're trying to be.
44:10
You know, how much how much have you worked on your raising your
44:15
grace stocks today? How much have you worked on your
44:19
your equanimity stocks? Yes, I like that.
44:27
Yeah, that's, that's, that's where it's at.
44:29
And like it can feel unfulfilling in the short term,
44:32
absolutely. But there is, it's such a a real
44:38
strength that that shines in some pretty dark moments.
44:42
I won't go into detail, but I experienced the weekend just
44:45
recently hanging around some incredibly toxic and negative
44:49
individuals. And the old me would have just
44:54
told them in no uncertain terms to go and fuck themselves and
44:57
when they've fucked themselves, go a little bit further and fuck
45:00
themselves some more. But instead of doing that, I
45:04
wish them all the best. And, and I was conscious about
45:10
that the whole time 'cause I was trying to read Manly P Hall's 10
45:15
Basic Rules for Better Living and rule #9 I think it is about
45:22
watching your anger. And then rule 10 is whether or
45:26
not you have the power to change your circumstances or external
45:29
circumstances can can change you.
45:33
I was like, this is an opportunity to practice this, to
45:35
put all this in practice, all of this work that I've been trying
45:38
to do. And I came out the other side
45:40
and I'm I'm pretty happy with how it went.
45:44
Although it would have been pleasurable, no doubt, to tell
45:47
them to fuck off. I didn't.
45:51
And as it turns out, they made a fool of themselves.
45:56
Thanks for coming. Yeah, it's, it's wild, man.
46:01
It's the the inner work is it pays dividends.
46:05
That's, that's what it's all about in the end, Like I feel
46:10
wisdom and virtue and, you know, just being a good human being.
46:18
It's I mean, we, we come here with nothing and we live here
46:21
with nothing anyway. So what do we do in between?
46:25
Is is what? What sort of what defines us?
46:30
What defines our lives to be honest?
46:35
I know, and it sounds so trite, but it's literally love.
46:37
Yeah. It just sounds like it's been,
46:42
it's been spoiled. It's like a it's a word that's
46:44
been spoiled, but it is quite literally that it it's just
46:49
yeah, provide love, send out love and.
46:54
And yeah, don't expect anything in return.
46:56
But more often than not, if you are emitting that type of
47:00
energy, you will receive it tenfold.
47:05
You know, Anthony Kidd has had it right, Man, when he said give
47:08
it away. You know, in 1991 of 1 of the
47:11
greatest funk rock crossover albums, Blood sugar, sex Magic,
47:18
that that's ever been made. First that, well, not debut
47:21
album for John Fricchiani, his second album, but amazing.
47:25
Yeah, give it away. Cool.
47:28
I'm, I'm going to have to listen to that.
47:29
You mentioned before. I'm not listening to that album.
47:33
It doesn't Click to me at the moment at least.
47:36
You would have heard it. You would have heard it, man
47:39
under the bridge. You know that song under the
47:41
bridge? Yeah, I think I know that one.
47:43
I'm I'm not super familiar with rock.
47:45
I'm not going to sing it. Well.
47:49
It's OK. Come with me.
47:51
I'll. I'll.
47:52
I'll show you. I'll show you.
47:55
Yeah. You, you would have had it, man.
47:56
It's the Chili Peppers. It's, it's, it's, it's it's a
47:59
stalwart of rock history. You mentioned before that when
48:05
you're writing unified creation energy theory that it was coming
48:10
at a time when you were feeling a little lost.
48:12
And then you mentioned that you were sort of feeling a little
48:15
lost at the minute. Are you able to talk about that?
48:17
Is that is that too personal? Yeah, I'm able to talk about it.
48:22
This not like super personal, I don't know it's like.
48:28
Your dog didn't die or anything like that because.
48:30
No my dog didn't die. My grandparents dog died
48:33
actually a couple of days ago but mine hasn't.
48:36
That's something good. This is good.
48:43
OK. But yeah, I mean, I've been
48:47
spending a lot of time meditating and sort of praying
48:53
and staying off screens lately as well.
48:55
And I guess part of that is that there hasn't been this sort of
49:05
enthusiastic wave for for anything lately in my life.
49:09
So I've been sort of trying to refine that, reignite that.
49:14
And also it's because of the same like hope thing and maybe
49:18
getting getting too bullish on on one's own's ideas.
49:22
I mean, my plans a couple of years ago were such that when
49:30
I'm done with my Australian visas, with my Australian sort
49:36
of tour, that I would, yeah, I would build my own company.
49:44
I would do some writing and I would travel the world
49:48
basically. And most where I feel still feel
49:55
most called to is South and Central America, because that
49:59
sort of seems to be the, the new, the new spot for, for
50:08
freedom and freedom minded people in in some ways, I guess
50:13
at least. But yeah, as I said, you know,
50:17
hopes usually get dashed. Things usually don't work out
50:22
the way we explicitly want them to.
50:26
So I haven't been able to, to travel.
50:29
I'm back in my home country at the moment, back in Estonia for
50:34
the time being, living in my parents place.
50:37
So probably going to have to start finding start.
50:45
I'm searching. Well, I'm already actually
50:47
searching a little bit. I haven't like fully committed
50:50
to it, but probably going to have to get a Fiat job sooner or
50:54
later again. Well, which is also something
50:58
that I was hoping to avoid, something that I've, I've been
51:02
trying to avoid since like high school days, to be honest,
51:07
because I, I already had already had some problems with authority
51:13
and I always wanted to be like self-sufficient, self sovereign
51:18
person. But yeah, that that journey is
51:22
not that simple usually, especially in in, or I don't
51:28
know if especially maybe maybe it's always been that difficult,
51:31
but at least it's not easy at the moment.
51:33
So and yeah, I feel like, you know, some of the things that
51:40
I've been betting on that I've been working on, they haven't
51:45
really paid off in a financial and material sense.
51:53
But that's also sort of that's the sort of tension that I
52:00
guess, you know, one has to contend with if they're doing,
52:04
you know, this sort of mental work or creative work or
52:09
spiritual work. And that the effort put into
52:14
those kinds of things and the sort of material payback or, or
52:22
rewards that you get for it, They're not, they're not really
52:26
correlated in any like deep, understandable logical sense at
52:33
least. So, so it's always balancing act
52:38
in that sense. And it's also, I guess some sort
52:45
of, I would say it's sort of my maybe like core wounds, I would
52:53
say is like being a creative person and not really like
53:01
getting recognized for it or at least not feeling being
53:05
recognised or belonging or yeah. Yeah, I did.
53:18
I completely cohere with all of that.
53:23
It's it's almost like you make a rod for your own back because,
53:28
you know, you want to go the road less travelled, but you can
53:34
still see the the road that's well worn.
53:37
And, you know, you're on this road and you're thinking, yeah,
53:42
I don't want to, I don't want to do that.
53:44
I don't want to do all the same old shit.
53:48
And but then you have friends around you that that are doing
53:54
that and you think, Oh yeah, I'm still in from time to time.
53:56
It might be nice, you know, to, to have whatever.
54:02
I don't know it, it's a, it's a, it's a thing that I like.
54:06
I, I used to, I used to be a journalist and a feature writer
54:12
and it gave me a certain degree of creativity and I was lucky
54:15
enough to have editors that I worked with that would give me
54:19
that space. But there was no like it wasn't
54:25
lucrative. I reckon I have this theory that
54:28
if I was doing what I used to do in the 90s, late 80s, nineties,
54:32
like, yeah, I'd, I'd be one of those annoying rich boomers now
54:36
for sure. And, and, and, and, and I know
54:41
because like, as soon as I figured out it was the money, I
54:43
was like, oh, right. Like, so there's no room because
54:47
the, the job that I used to do, you'd write these nice, you
54:50
know, 2000 word articles about, you know, people in your
54:53
community or whatever. And you got the space and the
54:56
time to to breathe life into these things that slowly
55:00
degraded over time to 500 word listicles about the top ten, you
55:05
know? Beers you should.
55:07
Drink around town or whatever it was.
55:09
And because that was the thing that people dug, that was the
55:12
thing that got eyeballs. No one had the intention span to
55:15
sit with this this article anymore.
55:17
And, and so, you know, it just, it just didn't bring the
55:21
advertisers and then that didn't, you know, that just, it
55:24
dictates everything. And that's, you know, one of the
55:26
things that I think Bitcoin ultimately will aid is that, OK,
55:30
fine. If there are those dickheads out
55:33
there that like reading listicles, you can keep reading
55:35
them, that's fine. And ChatGPT will just write them
55:38
in two seconds no problem. But for those that value quality
55:45
and and space and time to just sit quietly and read a story
55:50
because that's all it is, then that will exist as well.
55:54
And whether or not it will be self patron, you know, maybe one
56:00
day your stack will be large enough that you can just start
56:05
to do it yourself without needing any kind of, you know,
56:12
what did the Medici used to do The the you know, that that kind
56:15
of like Commission works. Yeah.
56:17
From artists. That patron.
56:19
Yeah. Is that is that right?
56:21
Yeah. Yeah.
56:23
You know, I think, I think we had Cody on a few years ago and
56:30
he was talking about self patronage, you know, and that
56:33
was the thing that he dugged about Bitcoin.
56:35
He was into photography and how like he would use that one day.
56:41
So just it it's about maintaining and kindling that
56:44
that flame though that's in you and not snuffing it out.
56:47
So when you drag your ass to a Fiat job and you have to deal
56:50
with the dipshit boss that hasn't got a creative bone in
56:53
his body and quite literally wants you to use an Excel
56:56
spreadsheet, and he's like, yeah, this is such a waste of my
57:00
talent and resources. But also, I mean, that's why
57:03
they made Office Space, right? And The Office, the TV show,
57:07
This isn't like anything ground breaking on you.
57:10
It's just a matter of forging that path, but keeping that
57:14
flame kindled such that when you get to where you're going, you
57:19
still have that energy to burn, and you want to blow it up into
57:23
a big bonfire and light. Light the world on fire.
57:26
Light your world on fire. Yeah, yeah, a lot of what you
57:31
just said resonates in a in a big way.
57:36
First of all, yeah, like the road parable thing, it's, it's
57:40
very apartment and it's also sort of like, yeah, if you don't
57:45
want to take the highway where you know, everybody else is
57:48
going, you're going to have to make your own roads.
57:50
And you know, making, making a road is not easy.
57:54
That's one thing. And yeah, the self patronage
57:59
thing is also a big thing. And that's, that's kind of what
58:05
I've been doing to be honest, like since 2022.
58:09
I've, I've only had worked like at a Fiat shop just a few months
58:16
last year in New Zealand actually.
58:20
But yeah, other than that, since 2022, I've been just sort of
58:24
investing into myself, into my interests, into whatever I feel
58:30
like I'm, you know, inclined to do or want to do or explore.
58:37
So it's been, I've, I've been very privileged in that sense
58:43
and I am, I am very grateful for it.
58:46
But yeah, at some point, you know, I never had that much of A
58:51
runway. I'm, I'm quite surprised I've
58:53
made it. I've made it that far without a
58:56
Fiat job. But yeah, at some point, you
58:59
know, if you, if you're, you know, stats flow, cash flow is
59:05
negative month to month, then you know, at some point you're
59:09
going to have to start refilling those coffers or, or those
59:13
creative pursuits have to start paying for themselves.
59:15
So just just the reality of things, you know?
59:23
Yeah, it reminds me of that meme of some dude arguing with like,
59:28
an orangutan and like, it's something like you look at you,
59:33
you dumb monkey. You like to throw shit
59:34
everywhere. And then the orangutan's like
59:37
you literally live on it on a on a planet, paying taxes to
59:41
pedophiles in order to live your life.
59:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who's who's winning?
59:49
I don't know. I don't know.
59:53
What do you wish more people knew about Bitcoin?
1:00:05
I was thinking about that question the other day because I
1:00:09
have listened to your podcast before and I know that you
1:00:12
always ask that question. It's a.
1:00:16
Predictable. Man, but I didn't really come up
1:00:18
with a good idea or a good answer to be honest.
1:00:20
I mean, I guess the main thing maybe is that it's incorruptible
1:00:33
and that Fiat money is, is not, or like, wait, I, I take, I take
1:00:40
that back. I'll say, I'll say proof of
1:00:41
work. I'll say that I, I, I wish that
1:00:45
more people knew how important the concept of proof of work in
1:00:52
an asset that is being used as a money is.
1:00:59
That's my answer. Proof of work.
1:01:02
It's, it's where it all begins and ends.
1:01:07
And, and you can't have proof of work without action and you
1:01:13
can't have action without energy that comes back to what you're
1:01:17
saying before. And, and from that energy
1:01:22
transference, you need some sort of conductor of that energy.
1:01:27
And if the conduct is shitty or it's being stolen, there was a,
1:01:33
there was a post I saw earlier today that I think it was in the
1:01:37
town of like this town, city of Brisbane.
1:01:41
The council have made corrections that started
1:01:44
removing the copper wiring from like some of the city's
1:01:48
infrastructure because it was just getting stolen and they've
1:01:51
replaced it with aluminium. There was a electrical engineer
1:01:55
commenting on it basically saying you need to use about 60%
1:01:58
more aluminium to get the same amount of energy transfer or,
1:02:02
you know, transmission or whatever, whatever the
1:02:05
connectivity that you would get from, from copper.
1:02:09
And I'm like so symptomatic of just this Fiat degradation, you
1:02:13
know, it just, it just completely, you know, degrades
1:02:19
everything. It degrades literally the, the,
1:02:22
the action, the energy transfer and the action that can happen
1:02:24
thereupon in untold ways. It's, it's wild.
1:02:33
What does Bitcoin mean to you? Well.
1:02:37
I'll I'll say what I said earlier.
1:02:40
Faith in humanity. Very short, very concise.
1:02:51
That's such a cool answer though.
1:02:53
We need more faith in humanity. I, I, I, I, I've done like a
1:02:57
full 180. I don't know about you man.
1:02:59
But again, going back to the black pill thing, I, I don't
1:03:06
know if I can credit Bitcoin with it, but I remember hearing
1:03:09
like Sam Harris talking, talking to some guy who was literally
1:03:12
advocating for people to stop having babies.
1:03:15
And I was around the time that I just had my first and I was
1:03:18
like, what kind of retarded nonsense is this?
1:03:23
Like, what, what are you talking about?
1:03:25
We gotta stop having babies. We gotta stop.
1:03:29
I was like, dude, the logical conclusion to that is you just
1:03:31
fuck off. Like kill yourself, honestly,
1:03:36
you know, and, and, and then I just was thinking, yeah, and
1:03:38
that's not, that's not a nice thing to say either of us.
1:03:44
And you're right, there's like a fortifying aspect to Bitcoin
1:03:48
that that galvanises, I suppose, your faith in humanity.
1:03:52
And look, not to put too fine a point on it, and listeners that
1:03:56
have been listening to this at least since the Yugo Khanna
1:03:58
episode, and that's who I blame, have known that my faith has
1:04:03
been building and is getting stronger and stronger by the
1:04:05
day. And humans are awesome, man.
1:04:09
We're the ultimate resource. And we have these cool brains
1:04:12
and these big hearts. We can do a lot of cool shit
1:04:15
with it. If people, certain people,
1:04:20
bureaucrats just. Get out of the way.
1:04:22
Yeah, let people do their things and then make more, make more
1:04:27
people. That's, you know, one of the,
1:04:30
you know, if if we are made in the image of God, then, you
1:04:36
know, God is the creator and we are basically emulations of that
1:04:44
creator. So we're also creators, right?
1:04:47
And, you know, creating another creator, creating another
1:04:51
person, that's in my view, like the highest form of creation you
1:04:56
can possibly imagine. So yeah, make more babies.
1:05:06
Context thank you so much, man, for spending some scarce time
1:05:10
finer energy telling us the tale of how you discovered Bitcoin.
1:05:13
I would commend every single listener to to go and read
1:05:16
unified creation energy theory pocket like come back to it.
1:05:20
You might not read it all in one go.
1:05:22
If you do, God bless you. That's incredible.
1:05:24
And you probably have zero other commitments going on.
1:05:28
But I would just chip away at it as I've been doing.
1:05:31
It's I've found a lot of value in in that particular essay.
1:05:36
You got a stoic one too, which I've got my own.
1:05:38
It's on my to read list. But yeah, man, anyway, dude,
1:05:42
thank you so much for jumping on the call and spending some
1:05:45
scarce time finite energy telling us the tale how you
1:05:48
discovered Bitcoin. Awesome.
1:05:50
Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.