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Thirst Quencher - American History X · Thirsty For More - Movie Review

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I told her to accept me on Facebook
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: because of my big legs. Because of my big legs,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I can do the splits, no problem. Are you feeling you?
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Who do you have it? It's taking a sack.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Taking a sack? Well, I can, I can, I can
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: start it off. Yeah, hello everyone, and welcome to another
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: thirst quencher. Of course I'm your hosts Malenko and.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: I'm Alex and today we're talking about Tony kay Tony's Club. Okay,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: we should explain. How did you guess?
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: There was a movie about Alan Smithy, who is a
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: fake name that they invented for directors who didn't want
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: to attach their name to a project. So if you've
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: ever seen a movie that's directed by Alan Smithy, it's
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: a notorious credit given when like the very worst, like
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: a director doesn't want to attach their name to a
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: script or to a to a project. And so famously
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Tony Kaye, who directed this movie, he wanted to have
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: a Smithy credit and they didn't allow him to. And
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: then he said he wanted to be called hugged.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: There was some sort of issue with the Smithy character
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: as well, but yeah, basically was editing this movie. Yeah,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: he got into trying to do an edit of the movie.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Apparently the first screening of it went fine. There's also
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: a thing about like people kept talking about this alternate ending,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: which I don't think is actually true. I don't think that.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I think that's like an urban myth that happened, that
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Edward Norton was shaving his head at the end of
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: the scene or something.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Oh again, interesting, Okay, well we'll get to that.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: But I think that because like, oh no, a black
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: guy kill well, well, I feel like.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: We should, we should, we should, you know, we should
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: get to that. The whole reason that Tony k wanted
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: a Smithy credit or a Humpty Dumpty credit was they
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: and they didn't let him have it. The production didn't let.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Him have it. No, because they didn't want it to
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: be because it's supposed to be a serious movie. They
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: don't want to fucking directed by Humpty Dumpty. That's badass. Now,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: it would have been cool, like obviously the new Humpty
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Dumpty movie. But yeah, Tony had a great fault. Yeah
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: he was the DP and he didn't beautiful it's a
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: beautiful shot because he's a photographer, and uh, he got
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: all of his inspiration from Stanley Kubrick. He was like
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: obsessed with Stanley Kubrick was a photographer like him. The
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: movie is super interesting as like two thousands Melodrama Revival,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Please Please you asshole. Yeah, well, like I mean, I'm
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: talking about that. Those years featured Americans, American beauty, that
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: movie by Todd Haynes, Far from Heaven. These movies that
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: took like social issues made them kind of storified them
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: in kind of corny ways, but like nineties corny ways
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: in a way that like the fifties did. These kind
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: of movies should be looked at with the same reverence
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: as fifties movies, where it's like, oh remember that time.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: There was a time where movies felt a particular kind
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: of way, you know, whether it be about like race
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: relations in America or oh, like I feel bad for
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: being my sad life is falling apart and my wife
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: doesn't love me anymore and my kid hates me, like
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Really well done. Gotta say, I
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: was like, I was, like, man, the movie is super
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: super corny, insane cast in great cast, I mean, just
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: set Pie, Andrews sud Lean, Uh what's her name? Lee?
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Oh for Ruse Balk for Ruza Balk. No, No, what's
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: her name though? Leen? She plays kess On Voyager, the sister.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Oh we have two. We have to two star Trek
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: for sure, Hilario.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Which Avery Brooks, The Incredible, the Incredible Powerhouse, Avery Brooks
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: man hold On kess Is.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: It Beverly Dangelo? No? No, No, she was great too.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: She was incredible. She's the mom right yeah, oh my god,
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  Speaker 1: like like just kind of like sad but like and
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: like so like so many people we've known, dude, but
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: like in a.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Kind of way, like her son, I I want to
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: talk to you about this. Her son ruins her life
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: in this movie. Actually, racism in general ruins her life
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: completely in this movie because she like becomes like and gets.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wait, the racism didn't cause the phasema.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no it did because she was They showed that
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: she excessively smokes because of the stress she's going through
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: with They subtly show no, d it's like very intentional
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: because when she grabs the cigarettes to smoke in the
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: which he's visiting him in prison, there's a very telling moment.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: No totally, but like yeah, but also I mean I'm
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: sure he thought about it the There are there are
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: major issues with the movie that Jennifer and.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Lean Jennifer Lean, Okay, she's amazing.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: There are like major issues with the movie that I
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: feel if Tony k did have final cut pro final
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: cut pro, it would have been a better movie. One
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: of them is the fact that apparently it was supposed
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: to be ninety six minutes long. How did you guess?
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: How did you guess? I read up so much on
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: this movie ninety six minutes. Edward Norton came back into
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: the editing room to add more stuff, which you know,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: add more stuff with the fight scenes in terms of
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: like fighting with the fight club, more stuff with with
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: fight scenes in in the movie. And I mean fight
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: scenes not like physical fights, but like emotional like fights,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: which is fine, and that does contribute a little bit
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: to the melodrama stuff that I was talking about, because
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Edward Norton's also I think, obsessed with this kind of
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: like emotional dramas. Those are the things like even made
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: a movie. He fancies himself like a Sean pen yeah
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: or yeah, exactly exactly, or like a brand Oh, so
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: like there is there is there are some some you know,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Jon Graverer wearing it backwards that.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, dude, Well okay, no, you're you're really
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: like do you want to talk about this in order?
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, you're just making I'm making jokes and
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm giving you, I'm giving you things. I'm I'm
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: in the movie right now. We start out with black
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: and White La Black and I post Riots and Edward
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Norton is having sex with Fuza Bulk in boots. Man,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: they're really going at it, yeah, and also perfect tension building,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: perfect imagery using like her wearing the boots like neo
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Nazi boots. We get the back of this black dude's
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: head with with like the his like hair and the
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  Speaker 1: dread like super beautiful black.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: And white shots a low taper fade with with like
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: with like sweet kind of like a blowout looking dread situation,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: and then he pulls up.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: They pull up. We don't know what's happening. They pull
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: up to the house. Edward Norton got tattoos and and
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: he's they're very Nazi. They're very Nazi. And Edward Furlong
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Edward Edwards brother, Edwards, my brother brother. I want to
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: see my brother, the brother Edwards dude and then a
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: couple of black dudes are like going up to the
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: house and then robbing Edward Norton's car. We don't know
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: why yet. They're trying to steal a car. Well we
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: don't know, well, well we don't know. We don't know
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: why yet we'll see. We don't know why they Why
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: this car, Why this neighborhood, why because this dude is
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: the guy from the basketball court.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Well, which we'll get to, which we'll get to. But
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: I think that the way that this is set up
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: kind of in the middle of that action and showing
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: kind of like this most brutal, kind of seemingly it's
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: very much a character defining moment, and it's a life
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: defining moment for this character. And that's why it's like
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: it's like plays such a big role in this movie. Right,
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  Speaker 2: It's like a scene that's returned to and continues.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Exactly, and we had so much context for everything. We
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: get snippets at first, and that's how it's shot. We
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: get snippets of faces, snippets of hands, snippets of feet whatever. Right,
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  Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, when Danny comes in
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  Speaker 1: and froze balk Is riding Edward Norton and that giant,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: fucking scary ass Nazi flag and then her going fucking
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: pervert Dan.
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  Speaker 2: She's also like she's also like really closely, like the
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  Speaker 2: way she was like rubbing.
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  Speaker 1: I was like, vote yeah. But then when when the
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: military esque, jeez, what the fuck are you thinking? Oh,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: and like how he likes just like how he gets
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: up and just moves her like nothing out of the way,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: and he's like, jeez, what the fuck are you thinking.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: It's almost like every this movie is like Ballet, just
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: like yeah, every scene is like so beautiful and moves
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  Speaker 1: so well. That was what I've noticed it Like the
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: whole way through, everything is moving into the next scene,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: like the slow mo and the like panning totally the
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: panning theon of this movie. And and Danny comes in
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  Speaker 1: and he this is Edward Young Young Edward, this black
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  Speaker 1: guy outside, he's breaking into your car, and like immediately immediately,
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  Speaker 1: bit they've been there how long? Danny like the the
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: like needing to fulfill the mission and Danny oh man, dude,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Edward Furlux Refords, I don't know, man was amazing.
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  Speaker 2: I have to say, it was so nice to see
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  Speaker 2: him again. And it's kind of in a way. I
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: always imagine his trajectory after Terminator two to be kind
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: of like I feel like it's a continuation of the
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: same young soul, you know what I mean, So like
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: it's not John Connor, but like I had that emotion
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: watching him of like the reactions of like a genuine teenager,
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  Speaker 2: like how he's embodying like this kid who was like
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: insecure and feels a sense of right and wrong. It's
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: very much like told very well through the performance of
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: like his innate sense of right and so that even
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  Speaker 2: when he is his most Nazi, it feels like this
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  Speaker 2: weird performer.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Is doing totally and it's like and people are constantly
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: trying to goad him into that performance too by being like,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: come on, repeat it, do it right with mister Ethan
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: super Leth, who like does also a great job in this,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I mean like if you could ever the most gentle
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: they both of those guys, Edward Prolong and Ethan super
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: le especially, how did you guess, were like, oh man,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: this is like hurts to do this. I don't want
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: to do this.
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  Speaker 2: I have to believe that because watching it there's such
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: a and dude, oh my god, like your butthole clenches
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: up in a way when they're being their most like
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: like genuinely like ecstatically excitedly racist.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Like and and the funny thing is is all those
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: guys Stacy Keach, what's his name, Edward for along, they
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: all boast bolstered Edward Norton's performance because he is actually
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: the person who least convincingly portrays the thing he's physically,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: I think, and it's it's a very particular reason he
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: doesn't fully embody the thing is because he's the tool
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: that Stacy Keach's character uses to be like, no, we
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: got a friendly this ship up, Stacy kees the hero,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: you're the mass you know what I mean?
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, like he find he's very much being manipulated
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: but by a father figure, because he loses his Nazi
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: father exactly, well, he loses.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: His far right, far right like cop dad, which.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Is like he's a firefighter please, oh sorry, public servant
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: of a different kind. But like, it's interesting that they
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: didn't make him a cop.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Though, it's great that they didn't make him a cop
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: because it's something that I think. I think that what
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: ends up happening is there's a type of person who
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: who is of a different generation that feels robbed. In fact,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: it happens through like every generation, and it's all that's
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: why this same story.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: Sounds so much like so much like Now, yeah, you
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: could also like put in like trans people in there
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: for some of the stuff that they were saying, Like
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: it's just like interesting, how like consistent the talking point.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Is because it's it's you know, it's reductionistic. It's simple.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: It's easy to be like, well, you know, like it's
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: black and white. And then when the movie is in comfort, Yeah,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: I actually really wanted to go into that after you
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: said something about Edward Furlong's performance, And yes, it is
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: fucking cheesy to like make it that strong a metaphor
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: of like not only is the past black and white,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: because it solidifies like how certain things are quote unquote,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: but at the same time because there's facts involved, but
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: at the same time the fact that like, ah, his
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: worldview is black and white. The blacks and whites are
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: are fighting for some sort of stage in this or
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: in his mind in this well, yeah, there's like there's
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: a world that gets set up, and it gets set
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: up so beautifully. It's almost like opera in a way,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: because like it's operatic in the sense that like it's
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: set up very simply through the eyes of this teenager.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like his through his perspective. Yeah, most
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: of the movie is definitely through his perspective, but we
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: have this like sort of.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Omnipotent view of this other character who is like we
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: it's not really his perspective as much like it what's
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: done with perspective is very interesting in this movie, right,
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: because like Edward Norton is is like he's the hero
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: quote unquote, and Edward Furlong is kind of like this
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: preview and this like side view and reality or like
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: a perceived like outside of the Like I don't know,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: you said something really interesting about how well, okay, Edward
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Norton is more racists. They're they're different kinds of racists,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: and they're they're racists for different reasons.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there, and.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: But but related to each other because they both idolize
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: someone and they're both trying to fulfill that void. The
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: movie is about masculinity again.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, I mean, yeah, totally. It's it's definitely
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: the masculinity part is of a different kind because it's
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: of a different kind than what then fight Club? Then
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Fight Club, especially because it's I mean when I think
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: of masculinity, I don't necessarily think of.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: You know, race, but you think of principles and you
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: think of standing for something. Yeah, And this movie is
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: all about like the American dream. Who gets to achieve
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: or who doesn't get to achieve the American dream. It's
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: also like it gives it. And I was watching it
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: with me a little bit here and there. She loves
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: this movie, and she was saying that, you know, like
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: it wouldn't be able to get made now because it
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: takes two How does she word it, like not favorable,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: but like kind of apologetic of you for like the
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: like white racists. And I think it's an interesting comment
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: because I think the movie, like, yeah, it does give
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: a very humanizing look at these white racists, and we're
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: seeing it from their perspective like almost wholly. But they
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: learn from like this, like from just experience, right, like
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: of like going through experiences with other kinds of people
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: and getting betrayed by who they think they're aligned with.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: And then it's like this whole thing about like because
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: I was looking for a father figure and I found
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: it in and masculinity a template for masculinity.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: I found it in hating someone who's not like yeah,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: for sure. I mean, like the thing is, we will get,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: we still do get movies like this, they're just contextualized
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: in very different ways. Instead of like, well, you know,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: this type of person got radicalized by X situation, therefore
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: we're looking at them quote unquote favorably. But it's like,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: it's just the circumstance that brings you to what your
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: beliefs are in the current moment, right, so instead of
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: looking at somebody who's you know, from a like a
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: different country or you know, even like you know, Nazis
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: have been portrayed in that way where it's like, oh no,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: what am I like like Nazis that weren't aren't neo Nazis,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: but like in the forties where it's like what drives
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: you to believe certain kinds of things and what whips
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: you up into a fervor? And so many of the
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: talking points in this handled really nicely, and the performances
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: are handled really nicely for like saying them, and man,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: there's some really nice embarrassing moments in this movie.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: There's some really incredible like such memorable, such memorable cringe,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: and like it's really interesting because there is also this
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: very ninety sense and I think the movie kind of
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: takes such a that's it's kind of like the movie
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: doesn't see color in a way, which is a very
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: ninety sentiment, and it kind of makes the movie. The
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: racism of the movie age a little wonkily, but still
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: good because it's portrayed very truthfully.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: But let me, let me give you a perfect example
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: of this, when fucking Avery Brooks. Because this is this
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: what I will say is that, yeah, it does have
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: some of the I don't see color stuff, but a
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: lot of it is like Avery Brooks to to Elliott
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Gould is like, come on, Murray, don't fucking fuck with me.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: You hate this kid. I know, I know, I know
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: you hate this kid. And it's like, oh, dude, that
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: is such a fucking ballsy thing to say to somebody.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: He's the principle, but not just that, but it's like
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: it it clearly defines their relationship. They've been friends for
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: a really long time. There's a familiar there's a familiarity
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: to it. The performances are great, and Elliott Gould as
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Elliott Gould is incredible. It's like what his kind of
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: like uh kind of indignants, but like there's a kind
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: of almost like righteous reaction that he has, like I
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: just feel sorry for you. Yeah. Well, like that's the
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: thing too, because because it's it's not that he doesn't
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: believe what he's saying either, because he does, but but
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: he does hate the kid too, like and for good reason.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: And Davery Brooks is even like, I fucking know, dude,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: kid's a Nazi, Like, yeah, you know who his brother is?
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Totally And then that part where he like closes the door.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: I went out with his mother a few times. Does
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: he say who do you know? You know who his
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: brother is? Does he say that it's it's he says,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: and I think I know, like I know you hate
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: this child, and I think I know why because he
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: went out with his mom, like yeah, and but but
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: also fucking Murray has a point too. Mine come as
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: a fucking essay. Mine cove the only the only time
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: we could do Mine Come because it's the civil rights fighter,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: which is interesting because he like they keep implying that
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: he's a smart kid, that he actually the paper is
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: like pretty good or whatever, which that's hard that would
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: be a hard ass fucking paper to write. I mean,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: isn't that book of arguing for Hitler as a civil right?
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Well no, I mean like it's in the sense that
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: like every person that tries to reel any sort of
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: politics out of it now where it's like, oh, you're
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: being you're being taken advantage of by by elites and
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: stuff like that, any sort of person can draw that
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: out of of any any source, right, because it's an easy,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: populous thing to to like take advantage of. But I
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: love the fact that Avery Brooks is like, no, like
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: he's a good kid, and I believe that he's a
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: good kid. He's only fucking what seventeen.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Sixties, sixteen, Yeah, And then which is really cool because
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: then he is like I okay, fine, I'll take care
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: of this, and he sends Elliot guldaf But wait.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Before before he goes it, says that he's like, he's like,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, his brother probably put him up to it,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: and he's like, I can guarantee his brother setting that up.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Where he's like, I could guarantee you can guarantee. Yeah.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I love everyone broke his voice and it's like he
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: used to be a Shakespearean actor. That's why everything he
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: delivers everything so conviction films.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, totally, But yeah, I I I think I
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: think that that they both make good points that are
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: different points, which is where the fights amongst people who
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: agree with each other often tend to happen, where it's like,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: oh no, that's individually dangerous versus yes, but he's part
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: of this context and we can't narrow it down to
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: whatever you know. But man, when Ellie leaves and fucking
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Eddie for Along stands up, little Eddie for Along stands
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: up walking by, he is menacing. It is scary. Yeah.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: I like the little character moment though right before where
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: he grabs the American flag kind of playfully from but
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: it's almost meant to be threatening. It is, he's kind
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: of like playing with it, like who he knows who
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: is American. It's like there's like an implied threat because
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: I think they show that the secretary is a black woman.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then and then he goes inside the office
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: and he's like mine, he totally is. And it's crazy
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: because I forgot that this movie is a what did
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: like one day movie? It takes place during the during
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: one day, right but with a lot of flash course,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: of course. Yeah, But it's like it's interesting that it's
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: like it builds so much emotion and and you're like
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: like does this make sense? Is this the way this
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: would happen? But it really fucking it really hits it
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: home very well. Well, it creates it creates like.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: A self contained vacuum because there's a lot of random,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: like really random parts in this movie that I think
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: make it operatic like that, like never in real life
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: would anybody let fucking Edward Furlong go in or Edward
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Norton go inside to hug dead Edward Furlong. Of course,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: but they knew, like I mean, yeah, but but to cry.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Also the pride that that Lemon like when when
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: what Avery Brooks just goes to the cops by the way,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: which which will which we'll get to. But yeah, it's
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: it's really interesting how they and the way he points
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: at the paper when he goes my cove and then
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: throws it into the should expel you for this and
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: he's like, go ahead, I love I love how with
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Elliot Gould he's like being like, come on, he's just
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: like he's a good kid. But with him he's given
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: instead total and we kind of get this whole throughout
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: the movie, even like Edward Norton admiringly.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Says, like, you know, he's a hard ass, but he's
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: said he's a lot of great stuff to say. There's
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: so like there's like a reverence to Avery Brooks as
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: like they needed a guy like Abe, because Avery Brooks
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: ends up being kind of like the like the the
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: the person who is representing like good wholesome blackness in
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: the movie in a way that like I think is
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: a little shorthand, but it serves the movie well.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: I think that they do enough with him, say like
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: a black intellectual has two h PhDs, but he's a
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: black but like I mean, he's a black intellectual who
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: came from places that were like I also had gangs,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I also had Like he has the lived, lived experience,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: and also he has the lived experience of being like
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: it's not just a narrow thing where I was like, oh,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: it's just white people, it's a system problem, right, Yeah,
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: And and like that's an interesting thing to hit home
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: because you've got all different kinds of reality of intersection.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: You've got like a working class guy who's racist, You've
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: got a black intellectual who's trying to better the system.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: You've got a work trying to like, sorry to interrupt.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: I've been criticized for interrupting you a lot on the
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: recent episodes, so I apologize for that. But I'm going
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: to just to say.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: From whom, nobody listens to the show. Okay, case people do.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: That's what I said, nobody listens to No kidding, I
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: love you, people do listen to the show. I'mkidding down.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Oh come on, man, it took me read a week
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: to read my cop I thought that line was fucking hilarious.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: I was like, dude, you could get me to read
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: a fucking regular book let alone. Mind cuff.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, but that's what It's also funny because it
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: is he's got his number. It is performative, and I
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: just wanted to say, speaking of like perform of the
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: like making him like they are really trying to say
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: something and like put him in like some kind of
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: special magical category as like a representative for like black
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: positivity in this movie.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: I actually think it would be more of the dude
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: in jail. Well, we'll get to the dude in jail.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: We'll get to which what's his name again, He's such
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: a he's an amazing character.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: We'll get to him.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so Avery Brooks is but the like despite
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: all of this, he has like a a deep character,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: It's not he's not just like a simplistic, like magical
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: black guy in the movie. No, not at all. I
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: don't think he is at all. I think he does
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: a really really good job. Also, this is when he
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: does when this is like pre Plugs Norton, pre Plugs Norton.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: His hair looks great in the movie. Every time they're like,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: oh man, it looks great, and I'm like, it does.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: It's such a nice haircut.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: It's very nineties guy Tory. He plays Lamont really good actor.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: He also does a really good job. Well, we'll get
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: to We'll get to that character. So the assignment is
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: American History Acts. That's what the title is. They say
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: it in the movie, Sorry, did you want to say
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: something else? Oh, American History Acts. It's supposed to be
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: about his brother, and he's like, come on, you must
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: be joking, I dude. His performance it's.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: Like incredible, the like little like voice ticks that he has,
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: the like fuck you man, like just such a good actor.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Like he's such a good actor, and like I've been
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: watching him because I'm you know, I'm writing a movie
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: for Eddie Forurlong. But I've been watching him in interviews
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: and he still got that, Like he's still got it. Man,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: He's so good. He's so good.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: I think he just needs an opportunity to be in
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: a movie. Like I think if he was shot, and
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: like if he had the right role, and like if
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: he was shot a certain way, I think he could
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: like really blow some mind totally.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: He's given one day to do it. The next day
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: he's got to write it, and then we cut to
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: the scene. This stuff is cringe to me, the like
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: three black dudes throwing a white dude into the get
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Like it just felt like it didn't feel like the
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: same kind of violence that like on the basketball court,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: for example, when you have like a racist guy versus
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: just like a regular black guy. Like in some place.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: This feels like, you know, Saturday morning, I'm teaching you
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: a lesson of not to be racist or not to
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: be a bully or whatever. And it's what's his name's brother,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: it's a hide the rapist tides brother in real life
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: in real life. Yeah, oh, I don't know. He's the
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: guy who gets bullied in the washroom before Edward Furlong
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: comes out and he looks his face looks familiar. Yeah,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: before Edward Furlong comes out smoking the cigarette. After when
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Edward Furlong comes into the scene, then it's okay, Like
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: it's okay.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: The main the main black guy bully who ends up
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: killing Eddie Furlong at the end. He's an amazing actor
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: to ude.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Like his like his face, yeah, just as present like
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: they he must have been cast and it was just like,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: whoa dude, this guy I don't care.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: This guy was fucking well, like he captures he captures
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: it intensity. But like also like at the end and
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about it, but he captures such a vulnerability too.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: And he also captures a vulnerability here because he has
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: these like subtle like child eye moments where it's like
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: I'm I don't know, man, I'm just a kid. I'm
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: not really like, I'm not really tough, like I'm actually
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: sensitive totally. And it's actually really cool to see because
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: like everyone has that to a.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Degree in this movie. They have their own moment with it.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: And then you know, Edward Prolong picks up Hyde's brother
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: and he's like, you got a stand up for yourself.
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: Man.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: It's kind of interesting too because Edward Furlong feels like
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: the type of like bully that would be an overcompensating
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: sensitive kid, So like somebody who's really acting out the
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: like hey man, and like really like you know, like
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: it's like, what are you getta do?
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: You know totally, I'm not afraid of you. I'm afraid
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: of your fucking jacked brother. I think he gave liked
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: looks insane, like real, not like you fucking like dehydrated. Yeah,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: it looks real, like a real dude. The jacked dudes
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: in this movie. There's a lot of jack dudes in
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: this movie. Every Brooks goes to the police station where
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: he's been helping sort of facilitate some sort of like
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: go between between the cops, and.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: It's like a community outreach vibe. Yeah, he's trying to
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: rehabilitate youth.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Yes, which is which is interesting and cool. The problem
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: this is where the editing problem comes in because you
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: said that it was shot it's shot really nicely, which
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: it is. It's shot incredibly. The editing and the pacing
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: is there's something off a little bit, and part of
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: it is the fact that it's longer. Part of it
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: is the fact that it feels disjointed between when every
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Brooks comes in and when he comes back. And because
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: of the fact that guy Tory Lamont's character appears in
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: the back half of the movie, it really hurts both
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: his performance and his performance between Edward for Edward Norton
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: and and Lamont because it does appear, he appears out
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: of nowhere. He teaches him how to be a good guy.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: And then that's it. If the movie was shorter and tighter,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: that would have had more impact.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: But then it feels like it's galloping slowly, yeah, because
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: like there's like so many so much time taking to
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: like establish and set things up. But then it like
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: feels like the plot.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Is like all right, moving yeah, totally uh. And then
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: we get our introduction to young Edward Norton, pre dead
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: dead Edward Norton, jacked but wearing a backwards hat, so
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: clearly younger Edward Norton. Oh, where he's on the news.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: He does do a good job. He actually does do
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: a good job.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Like his face, that kind of vacant look that like
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: really racist people get when they're in that racist rage
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: where they're just like saying the thing and being defiant
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Aid's welfare.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Those are problems with the black community. It's like it's
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: like whoa dude. Yeah, and it was. It was cool.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: It was a cool and bold move of the movie
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: to include this kind of racism. It felt to me
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: like a very at the time, especially.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say, but I feel like I was
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: going to say at the time, especially when I saw it,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: it felt like a very like accurate portrayal of this
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: And there was something that felt very much like documentary
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: like about this movie because of this like truth telling
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: quality and also the aesthetic.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: He's a documentary maker. Tony k made a really good
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: abortion documentary also utilizing some of the similar things. It's
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: all black and white and stuff like that. Very interesting. Cool. Yeah,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: he's a really he's a good filmmaker. Yeah. Well what happened. Nothing,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: I just I just realized I might have sold that movie. Okay,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: American History CTS, No American I was gonna sell Americans
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: because I got to upgrade it to Blu ray. But
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: this movie doesn't have a Blu ray. So I was
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: what movie you're talking about. Its called Lake of Fire.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: It's the Oh I know that, I remember that cover
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: from your collection. Yeah collection, Yeah, sorry sorry anyway. Yeah,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: so like yeah, like the similar talking points that happen
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: where it's like, well, my like our generation, we did
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: this within a generation of people, and it's just like
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: white Europeans were able to were able to like flourish
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: and it just within a generation.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, that's what you think happened, dude, And
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: like on whose backs like the people who they like
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: learned to trade them first, that they learned to trap
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: and trade from then killed deliberately and deep deep, that's
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: this that'smated population systematically through killing like livestock and shit
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: like slaughtering literally slaughtering all the bison in the country
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: to like stifle food supply. Insane shit like outrageous. But yeah,
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: like just like it is this kind of like he
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: doesn't think of it that way. He's like no, like
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: I'm just like we're we're here. Everything's you know, like
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: there's a like entitlement and not considering anything else.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: And the we get that emphasized by the fact that
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: it cuts to Edward Furlong and He's like, Venice used
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: to be a nice, quiet place to grow up in.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: So presumably he's writing this paper right, Like he's narrating
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: the paper, which is a great narrative device for us.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not great at narrating, though Edward Prolong does
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: a not a great job. I loved it. It's hard.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: I loved it.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: There's something emotional about it. It makes me feel more
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: connected to the character because it feels like I'm just
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: hearing his inner dialogue.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah maybe, and like he's like a corny tine. So
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: that's the thing, is like I think he's writing how
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: he thinks it's supposed to sound, which is why it
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: sounds jolty, because it's like written like it's written like
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: the way a teenager writes a paper. Pay right. Yeah.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: And then he sees the dude, the bully that was
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: in the washroom previously, and he's like, hey, man, isn't
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: that the guy you were telling me about? Even though
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: it's like what who was this on the basketball court?
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: No?
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: It what happens is that happens. And then all of
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: a sudden it cuts to a flashback of the basketball
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: court and that's where like, man, the use of it
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: reminded me of White Man Can't Jump. Uh yeah, well
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: just because like it has like these like basketball court
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: scenes and it's like often like people challenging each other
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: on the court. And yeah, I mean except not like
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: super racistly.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Well, but I think it was a deliberate reference to
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: that movie because that movie kind of like is a
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: little naive about race, right, Like it's a.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: Little like I've experienced racism too soon. I mean, have
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: you seen the movie? Yeah, I love it. I love it.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: I saw recent Yeah, I mean it is a yeah,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: it holds up well, but it's a little magical, you know,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: a little magical, but you need a little magic, like
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: not everything can be. I mean, yeah, when you're discussing
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: something like race in America, it's got to be magical.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Speaking of magical, Ethan soup Lee is an amazing basketball player.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: That part was that part? Okay?
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: That that and I was like, I honestly don't believe
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: that a group.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Of black guys playing a group of white guys, a
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: group of black guys who are often playing basketball at
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: this court, like is Edward Norton dunky like that? Like
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: come on, like that's yeah. It was talk about magical dude.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: But also this features the guy who gets killed by
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: Edward Norton. This is the first time that well yeah,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: like outside of like no context, like and and like
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: at first it comes up as like, oh, is this
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: just because of a basketball thing? But also it's like
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: the kind of challenging it is. And then we get
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: our first bit of Stacey key each as well. Well yeah, and.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: They're whispering to each other and he's like, oh, I
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: got it.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: And then.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: I guess Ethan souple makes like a foul play or something,
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: and because of that, they he wants to like challenge them.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, he they want to like play for the
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: court and like no complaining, no whatever.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: You know, Well, but no, that's Edward Norton's idea. Yeah,
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: this is like playing into Danny's paper because Danny says
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: that Edward Norton helped clean up the area for a
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: while because he was dominating it with his like amazing
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: white white power. Yeah, like yeah, I mean it looked
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: like he'd like had trained like his moving really very
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: athletic Edward Norton.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: But dude, it was kind of of like like the
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: it's the first bit of kind of.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say it's the first bit of extreme
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: racial violence in the movie, but that's not even true.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: It's like how the racist violence manifests itself is magical
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: in exactly the way a movie should portray it.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. I think you're right, and I do.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: I actually do think that it's it's true what you're saying.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: It does very much imply violence throughout the first bit
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: of it before getting into the showings. Well not just
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: the feelings. I mean, the feelings are always there. That's
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: what this is about. Like, it's all about feelings, but
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: like whether it be like interpersonal like racism feelings or
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: like how could you do this to me? Feelings? Or
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: how dare you find this other man when we have
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: this perfectly good man that's our dad, you know, like
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: those kinds of feelings. But like, man, the violence is
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of it's implied, and a lot of the
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: imagery is like man, like when he takes that shirt
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: off and it's like I'm gonna show these black dudes
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: my fucking swastika on my chest, Like you know, it's
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: very jarring, and I think it's like it's shown to
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: be charring, and it's it's meant to be jarring, but
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: it's it's also shot in this way that it doesn't
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: glorify it, but it looks epic because it's so slow motion,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: so like it kind of feels like I think it's
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: trying to deliberately play with that because it's showing the
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: grandiosity of the badness of it. Yeah, you know what
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Like there's that there's that kind of vibe and like
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: as a result, like they're almost they're trying the tooth
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: with race because it's like it's meant to be this
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: like ephemeral, ever present thing, and it is in life.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: So it's kind of cool that they portrayed it that
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: way because there is like very much the movie is
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: making a value call. Ye, it's saying racism equal bad bad.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And there's this beautiful thing between cutting from
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Venice Beach to cutting to black and white, to cutting
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: back to Edward for along running in color and then
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: him just having a flash of black and white Edward
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Norton with a shaved head, and then him running in
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: color again, and then he got picked up today at
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: seven am, him with hair in black and white, and
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: it's one of the only images that's contemporary, that's of
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: him now, but still with the black and white of
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: what Danny remembers. And he's like, yeah, exactly. So he
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: feels like it's like, oh, well, this is like my brother.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: He's going to be the same. It's black and white, right,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: And then and all of a sudden, his brother is
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: like gentle, a little bit of a dickless disappointment, do
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean? But like still scary because
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: he's physically imposing, but he's also learned boundaries because he's
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: like he's like, hold on until I'm done this phone call.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: Like it's like don't and it's not aggressive in a
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: way that it's just assertive. Oh, we gotta do something
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: about hair. I mean like it's it's we gotta, we gotta,
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: we gotta have to shave my head. Oh you're keeping
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: it pretty close these days, Alex. Why what's happening? I mean,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: are you got Nazi sympathizer? Dude? Yes, Doc, I don't know.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: I think it's their chapter. I think it's something California
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: because I think there is like a contingent of like
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: California Nazis. I think it is like a legitimate problem there.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Sure, but Cameron, and we learn his name, dude, Cameron perfect,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: perfect note great, and Stacy Keach does such a great
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: job of being such like an unforgivable piece of ship.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Like there's like a sinister quality like this guy has
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: broken bad so much that he's irredeemable.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Because and he uses other people. He's like a snake.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: He's also implied to I read your file, you'll.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Talk about that. What we get a call from from
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: mine comf to talk talk to from Avery Brooks? Yeah,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: from Avery Brooks to Edward Norton, which we don't know yet.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: But I love the fact that there is like an
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: implication that it's like is it Avery, is it Cameron?
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: Is it?
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: You know? And then oh man, dude, Like if there
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: was ever a guy that I would totally want to
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: work with too, because I would love to work with
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Edward Norton and I would love to work with Ethan
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: soupe Lee because Ethan soup les dedicated fucking performance in
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: this How we get him introduced like slobbery, like this
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: was one of my first introductions to this guy. Yeah,
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: it's like and like, honestly, it's hard. It's it's hard
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: to like play a Nazi so memorably and a hate
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: herble one so memorably because it's like, no matter how
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: good the performance, in fact, because of the good performance,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: that shit will follow you, dude. And and like the
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: the like yanking, the motions, the like ugh.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: The vitriol, the hatred, the and like him singing it
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: like and just that melody. I'll never hear that melody
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: without thinking about and that's deliberate. You can't hear this
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: very all American song without associating it with it with
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: America's white supremacist past. And like the fact that like
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: he's singing the white man mark is on and things
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: like that. It's like very and like also using the
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: N word profusely and the Jew's jews juice. Yeah, Like
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: the dedication in this movie to like just going there
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: with that stuff I think is what makes it like
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: very memorable. But it's also like super edgy. Just like
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: watch a movie now in this day and age, seeing
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: this many white people like this passionately saying that word
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: over and over again, hard er on the end, like
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: like just just like total like Paul Dano commitment, you know, oh.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And this is this really cool shot that
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: I didn't notice until now, and I've seen the movie
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: so many times where they attach the fucking camera to
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: the the mini DV camera and he's like shooting the
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: house and it looks amazing and everything.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Is assaulting Jennifer lean and she's being horrible to him
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: about his weight, which also I felt like in this movie,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: the like fat phobia was like because everyone's mostly so
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: chiseled and like fucking like ripped and ship.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, there's very much like a.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: Perfection thing about like stuff in this movie. And I mean,
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: I know that the Democrat is being a you know,
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: but like Jennifer Leean just is like she's.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Being like it's also like how else are you going
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: to fucking attack a Nazi? Right? I guess like with
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: words that he'll well, not just words that he'll understand,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: but also like he'll take personally that like it's like, Yo,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: you're the perfect race, you know what I mean, Like
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: this idea of like this is what perfection means to you,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: to them exactly, Like so I will undermine that to
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: humiliate you. Yeah, that's a good point. You called me
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: a blimpy fucking democrat, and you.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: Know, they really do say in the States, like an
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: insult that you're Yeah, they do say, it's really funny.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: It's like the most tame thing you could be on
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: the left, if that is even it's not.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: The left, it's not, which is fine, Like I'm I'm
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: okay with that, but but the hatred of fucking Hillary
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Clinton too, Like that made a fucking I was like,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: man like even back then, eh, like no, it's it's
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: just not stopped. No, I know, I know, I know
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: that you're saying that, Like it's just wild. What a
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: wild thing to hear from a dude who's a Nazi
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: in a movie in the nineties about naz about Nazis,
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: and then for having people here be like having people
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: now be like it has nothing to do with the
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: fact that she's a woman or a Democrat, or it's.
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: The fact that she's a blood sucking fucking you know,
• 48:45
  Speaker 5: it's like a I mean, yeah, but it's the fact
• 48:50
  Speaker 5: that she's a war mongering war criminal, Like are you
• 48:55
  Speaker 5: kidding me?
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: Like, I mean, she is, it's true. All of those
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: things are true, I mean, but like yeah, like it's
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: like but it's like it's again it falls into that
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: same category as like well, I mean, you know, he
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: took the this person took the position of power, and
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: this power has a history, so that means you know
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: what I mean. It's just it's hard to look at
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: somebody like Hillary Clinton and be like the amount that
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: gets focused on her just like okay, but like sure,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: you know, I think feels like a little bit well
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: that's specific, but that's like what what.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: People are attacking is the perceived hypocrisy because they're like,
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: you're the one who's always saying like gay rights and
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: this and that. Just don't be that you're a fucking
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: neo liberal and you're a warmonger and you.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: You you have like been complicit in like several different
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: like who hasn't in American politics in any anywhere. I
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: don't know like if you would that and I'm not
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that like like flippantly where it's like like, oh, well,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: we're just gonna expand and expand and expand. But like
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: that's what it seems like people. When it's convenient for
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: people to do, they just end up being like, well,
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: you know, i mean, she's part of assistant and it's like, yeah,
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying I'm saying that there is a kind
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: of perceived hypocrisy where it's like, just be mask off,
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: that's what you know, we would respect you more. So
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: people don't respect that. I thought that too, where it's like, oh, yeah,
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: people should just be fucking racist, and now it's like, well,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: I mean that was a bad idea. It's like we
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: prefer the nineteen nineties where people shielded it a little
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: bit more. And it's like, I don't know, I prefer that.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: I prefer that than Twitter fucking hell holes being like
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: I prefer I prefer it. If it's gonna be out there,
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: I would prefer to know that it's there. I would
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I would rather I we knew we of
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: course we knew it was there, and we know it's there.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: I prefer people be like at least kinder to each
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: other rather than like just being like, but the kindness
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything, like it something it does. It's just
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: a performative bullshit. Like the kindness doesn't mean any What
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: he means is who cares? If it's performative bullshit, that's
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: a good thing. We are performing. We do it all
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: the time. I know, I know, I know, I know,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: I know, I just mean, yeah, let's let's let's let's
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: get back into the into the the plot though, where
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: were we? Oh man? When Edward Norton also asserts his boundaries,
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: being like I'm on the phone. I'm on the phone.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: And then he's like, you go go to Danny's room, uh,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: and just give me a moment with my brother. Uh.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: And the but the love they feel is amazing for
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: this guy, This like amazing, like where where he's just
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: because he's been probably really really mistreated Ethan super Leese character,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: he's sort of constantly like, oh my god, like how
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: are you? What's going on? Looking at him.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: He's also looking for information that he's there right, like
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: he's sussing him out, because later he tells Cameron later
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: is like he told me that you were you know.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Like it's like he's like on the lookout. They're always
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: always looking at each other in a way actually that
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: I noticed that they that they portrayed really well. There's
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: a kind of like looking to see if the dogma's there.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: It's the Larry David stared down. Okay, Okay, it is
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: fully okay, it is.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: The Larry David staredown And and like they're always doing
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: it to each other to like suss out if the
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: dogma still there, because it's important. That's all their identity is.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: But my daughter has important. Now there's this scene that
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier with a mom's smoking because she's emphysemid
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: But what's hilarious about it too is the fact that
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: I love the line, God, I just I told him
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: to not smoke and.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: Here yeah yeah, and like she's got like a horrible cough.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: I think that I still think that, like her health
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: has gone bad because because of racism indirectly, like her
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: it took away her husband in a way. She didn't
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: agree with it, then either no one did. And also
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: the fact that they show women in this movie like
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: women are seemingly hard line. All of his family at
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: least are hard line, like more left leaning or at
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: least not Nazis, you know what I mean, except for
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: his girlfriend, except for his girlfriend who's used it tracks
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: because completely you.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Know that, didn't they say? You know that?
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: I listened to Dan Savage recently was saying, like posting
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: a recording of Republicans saying that if women hadn't had
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: the vote the last like I don't know how many
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: presidents Democrat presidents wouldn't have been elected. It's time to
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: repeal the right.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: To I mean it's probably happened multiple times since, but yeah,
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: this was recent.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: I think that that he was playing, And I'm like,
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: whoa dude voting rights take away women's voting right.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, like if if it's if it was that
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: easy for for Roe view aid to get repealed, then
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: then obviously any rights are are on the table, including
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: the fucking, the fucking free speech ship that they all
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: fucking clamor to. But like, didn't see the like, let's
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: talk about hypocrisy, doesn't doesn't don't see the hypocrisy of like, hey, dude,
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: like you just did this to women. Now, like, what
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: what is there to stop some crazy democrat quote unquote
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: to take away any of those rights? Who cares at
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: this point? If it was that easy. But anyway, I
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: don't understand if one right is taken away that easy,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: the rights that you care about, which is often freedom
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: of speech and property rights and so on and so on,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: are are on the as much on the table as that.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: But they cheered for that one because they don't they
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: don't value consistency like I do. And like Edward Norton
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: does in this movie. Okay, well, Edward Norden does value
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: consistency in this movie because he actually it's it's funny
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: because he becomes not racist because some guys were Nazis enough,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: which is really interesting. That is interesting, and it mostly
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: happens in that way. That's where the magic breaks for
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of people, because there are people who and
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: he calls it politics, which is true. That's what politics is, unfortunately,
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: is crossing over to the other side. Well, no, it's
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: what it is is understanding that the world works in
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: a particular kind of way. And in order to avoid
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: extreme violence or no I'm okay, in any sort of
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: extreme violence or like main quote unquote maintaining piece, you
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: have to sort of be like, okay, what can we
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: do now in this moment to alleviate this?
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: Uh?
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: And then you know, wait, I guess until the next
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: thing fucking irrupts because like, people look for every reason
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: to fucking hate each other. And it just in America.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: It's got a very particular history. Well, and I think
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: the American history talk about American history X. I think
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: like this was the late nineties, this was after Rodney
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: King they talked about Rodney King in the movie Rodney
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: King has come up from us covering nineties movies so
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: much that that was how much that was in the zeitgeist,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: and that was how huge a racial reckoning moment that
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: was for America. Right. So, I just watched Dark Blue
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: recently with I haven't seen it since with Kurt Russell.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: We got to cover that movie. That would be a
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: fucking thirst quencher. I love to.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: So I think it's I think it's very interesting that
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: this movie, you know, it kind of there is a
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: kind of approach that it has. It's like almost like
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: a bushy tailed approach where it's like very much like
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: we're conquering racism with this movie. It feels like it's
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: like trying to do like be an un taking because
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: of the documentary filmmaking style, it feels like it's supposed
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: to be real life, you know what I mean?
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so too. Maybe not necessarily in the delivery,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I think that's the truth in the messaging
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: of the movie, it's he does a he does a
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: really good job. I think of que of like being like,
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: this is an intimate story about this family, but I
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: want to tackle this major issue, you know what I mean?
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: Man and Ethan simply taking the one black jelly bean
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: out of the white bowl of jelly beans, like like
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: shit that you'd be like, whoa, this is so fucking
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: cringe if you if I told somebody that idea, they'd
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: be like, bro, don't do that.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Well, I think it's cool
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: that they did that in this movie, because I do.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: I do think that this exactly happens. I do think
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: people do that. I think people are that cringe. And
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: then yeah, Edward Furlong goes to write his paper, Edward
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: Norton goes to visit Stacy Keach, and then we get
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: this really wonderful flashback of it's like a fight club
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: esque you know, first rule of fight club is you
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: do not socialize with black male. Come on, man, we
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: didn't come here to socialize. The sort of him being like, oh, like,
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: this is about the working man, this is about workers' rights.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: These guys are importing poor and you know what about
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: the poor people in America? You know, the same kinds
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: of talking points that.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: People are you talking about the time when he's like
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: recruiting and he's kind of like he talks to that
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: guy about smoking weed and he's like, you don't smoke this, that's.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: What black people do. Ye, there's like a yeah, like
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: a very much like he believes in like the purity
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: of it all.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Like he's like very obsessed with Like he's like, don't
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: do what they do, Like don't It's like, so, yeah,
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: it's this ultimate othering, right, And is this like when
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: he's giving them the pep talk before they raid that
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: the supermarket, which is.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: So good looking, the show that the all of this
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: is so scary. That part of the pouring salsa into
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: that lady's mouth, the milk.
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: On the face is just like I've never I've never
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: seen anything like that. Yeah, it's so slow and like
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: the almost like the humiliation and degradation is shown in
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: this way where it's like you're seeing the actual physical impact,
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: You're seeing the reaction on the face, Like there's a
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: real like there's a real sympathizing and compassion given to
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: the impact that this is happening only shown.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that fucking scene with the cash register where
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: he throws it out to the window, like beautiful, beautiful
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: scene and uh, you know, like make obviously making like
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: very racist comments towards everybody. Uh, and it's and then
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: it cuts back to Edward Furlong at his computer with
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: the big Swaska flag, and Edward for Along gives some
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: hints as to this wasn't really how it was this
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: this was always been kind of like that. It's not really,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: Oh it's started here, but it's always been like that,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: we just didn't kind of love. And then we get
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: the dad. No, this is not the dad. We get
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: Elliott Gould trying to go on a date with their mom.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: This scene, Oh my god, dude, I think it's I
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: think Okay, So I was gonna say, sorry, sorry, sorry,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say this scene is the most violent
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: scene in the movie. Yeah, in ways, in ways because
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: of how like scary Edward Norton is. Yeah, and the
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: kind of like maniacal dedication and the like fact based
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: kind of jabbing of like I have facts to back
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: up the things that I but it's all just like aggressive,
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: like pushy talking points. Well, it's it's clear that he's
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: very smart, and they try and do like a really
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: nice job of making him and Edward for Along very
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: smart in the movie. And it's like taking the facts
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: of a situation and then reframing them as well, you know,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: how did we start talking about civil rights when this
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: guy who was drunk driving and attacked these police officers.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: That's what a civil that's what a right is. It
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter the oh he's a bad guy or he's
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: a criminal or whatever, the fact that you are a
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: person who is owed and deserves not to get beaten
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: the shit out of, even in a situation where it's
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: like all like a rowdy whatever, like cops have a
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: standard that they need to abide. But because of systemic
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: racism where you know, there's a culture of a culture
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: of hatred around a certain type of race, it ends
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: up being that this person is being robbed of his
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: civil rights. But then people like this will use that
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: situation and flip it, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: a bias, is there inherent bias? And and Elliott Gould
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: is like, well, I want to have a discussion, and
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: he's like, yes, we're having a nice discussion. Mom like
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: that kind of like man, the kind of like uh,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: familial dynamics in the movie and when when the mom
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: is like, I was.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: So sick that you came out of me, and her
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: like you came out of my body man, and the
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: fact that like she's don't give ahead, don't give ahead,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: I guess because this scene, like the details of this
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 4: scene are really cool.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: I love something we get, oh man after you like
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: calls him a monkey, it calls black people monkeys. It's like,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: this is painful.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: It was really painful because like Elliot and Elliott Gould
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: is giving like the audience in reaction in human patience
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: though like he's like just like really trying, yes, and
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: so he's really trying. But like but Edward Norton is
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: being violent, like he's being like violently aggressive with this,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: and he's trying to be intimidatingly scary like yes, of course,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: but by the stuff that he's saying. And then it's
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: funny because everybody reacts to it. But he like then
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: acts like why are you crazy? What are you reacting
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: like that?
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: For so like he uses it, which we'll get to.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: But the way that it's introduced also that Ferusa Bulk
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: gets very excited to like to like, oh yeah, to.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: Get to have her her worded because of her.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: It's not just it's not just her word. And she
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: also she gets excited at violent things happening around her
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: and her instigating.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: She likes instigating it because of the powerlessness that women
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: face in that those kinds of communities, and.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: There's like but there's an excitement, you know, Like she
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: like she gets this wide eyed glance and she's like she.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: Plays it perfectly because she knows that type of person.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: But it's interesting because there's a real fruz of Balkx
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: reaction and like her kind of like bloodthirsty, smiling, excited
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: look at violence happening. It feels like a she finds
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: like pleasure and safety in it in a way, like
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: she's trying to escape from maybe like her own conditions,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: and like she's doing that by so radically othering this
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: like like these minority groups that like she doesn't like.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: It's like more about like some kind of like power
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: and identity for her. It's like exactly what you said, Like, yeah,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: she just like uses violence and intimidation as a way
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: to gain access to power.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: Well maybe access to powers. I wouldn't necessarily say that.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: I would probably say a sense of safety.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: Sense of safety, but sense of safety through proximity to
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: two power, which is why she is dating the top
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: dog she wants to she's sexually attracted to him because
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: he's a Nazi man.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: The poisoning of my family's dinner with your Jewish and
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: word loving hippie bullshit, Oh my.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: God, it's like just like a holy fucking shit. Yeah,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: Like it's they really like they weren't trying to pull
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: any punches. They wanted to show you the true ugliness.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: What's what's great about Edward Norton's performance later on and
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: some of the lines, is that the disparaging of hippiness,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: whatever you might think of hippies as a movement or whatever, kumbaya.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: This is what people do about socialism too, which is
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: really frustrating and annoying. Is like, and why the points
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: of comparison between socialism and Nazism are so wrong is that,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: like ideologically there's not really a comparison in between something
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: that's like embedded hatefulness versus something that's like, oh an
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: ideal that we can't embedded galitarius. Yeah. But like even
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: aside from all that, like just like something that that's
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: interesting about this character is that he's like, oh, you're
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: kumba yah shit, And it's like, don't you want like
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: that I don't know, like hippiness sounds like just a
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: way more like cohesive thing. There's a way that.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: They think things are naive, you know, I think and
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: like I think they're big thing is they think leftists
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: are hypocritical, and.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: I think that that's true. But who isn't right?
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: Like but like there, but but the reason that they're
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: not hypocritical is because their worldview is so simplistic that
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: it doesn't really allow for it doesn't allow for any
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: other nuances.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: So like just because you see things in black and white, yeah,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean that they're black and white.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, They're often incredibly complicated. And the interesting thing
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: about Elliott Gould walking out and the American flag waving
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: in the background, part of this is a very British
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: sensibility too, because he's Tony Kay is British, So it
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: is a very the reason it kind of has to
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: be documentary, it's one colonizer talking about a different colonizers
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: kinds of racism. Yeah, I mean, well they stopped slavery
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: earlier than the Americans, so like, I mean, you know,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: it's it's like those are those are also simplifying things
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: in ways that are just but yeah, Edward Norton being like,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: you disgusted me bringing this person here, and then and
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: then like how could you bring him to dad's table?
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: Aren't you ashamed?
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: Like shaming his mom, slut shaming his mom also like
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: race slut shaming his mom, being like how could you
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: bring him? And he's like disgusted by her.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: And it's like, I'm a shamed you came out of
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: her like man police a performance and like this sort
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: of like you can tell there's like a frustration with
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: like their declining in class. You see them throughout the
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: movie decline because he's gone, the dad's gone, so like
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: they're getting even more radicalized into right wing politics. It's
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: it's really interesting because she's like the sole breadwinner. Yeah,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: it's like, really, he's got a lot of responsibility. Yeah,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: he's got a lot of response. He's got to be
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: the bread winner. He's got to be the man.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: And what he's mad that other he thinks other people
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: took away his opportunities. He thinks other races took away
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: his dad. He thinks that because of that, other races
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: are taking away jobs and opportunities.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: He thinks that you know, that stuff is easier to
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: sell to a younger person because you don't have any
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: experience of what it's like to work, right, it's easier
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: to be like they're taking your jobs, and it's like
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: he doesn't know, he doesn't know, he hasn't lived right.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: But then when he does finally get that experience of like,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: oh no, like this is actually fucking shitty, Like we're
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: all going through this stupid ship and it fucking sucks. Yeah,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: and I love I love that. That's kind of the messaging.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: It's it's it's and then that fucking flip flip flopping
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: thing of like because the sister comes in with a
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: fucking bat and tries to hit him and he's like, oh,
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: calm down, it's all okay. Like making the situation a
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: shitty situation so that you could be the good guy
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: that fixed the situation is also something that I wish
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: Mama learned, but he learns, which is good. He's not
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: a Nazi anymore. But that kind of thing that that
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: people do to gain and regain powers, like are you no,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: I'm implying that that she I'm implying that she does
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: that thing where she she'll whip up a situation to
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: be way bad in order to come in, swoop in
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: and save and save right, which is what this guy does.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: He's like confronts this guy, y know, they're having a
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: fucking dinner, and he's like he can't keep his fucking
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: mouth shut about this, Like.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: The way he grabs Jennifer Lean, who wants to be
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: excused from the table, Like we just discussed in her
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: mouth meat in her mouth mouth on purpose because she
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: doesn't eat meat. She's a vegetarian, because she's, in quotations,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: a pussy liberal, you know what I mean. So like
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: there's like this also this like you should eat meat,
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: and like you should blah blah blah. It was like
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: it's it's an addition to it, you know. I think
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: it's specifically paid attention to it that it's stake.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: Speaking of paying attention, is when when the mom lights
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: a cigarette in the next scene and Edward Norton's pulls
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: it out of her mouth, that is like, oh, you
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing that, and then takes a drag before
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: putting it out. Perfect. She's always also lighting up when
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: when she's really stressed out, and I think it's showing that,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: like her declining health was directly related to the racism
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: that her child was a spousing God damn. Okay, you
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: gotta quit. It's not good for you. Hold on, you
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: gotta I've started realizing that my Marty impression is a
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: better Edward for a long impression. Okay, hey, let's hear it. No,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: I can't, I can't do it. Okay. Yeah. Man, the
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: like memorabilia too, like that this kid has where it's
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: like papers of newspapers of Nazis and and shit like that.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: It's like so scary and like he's like got the
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: papers of of neo Nazi killed you know, person in
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: gang or whatever. And then it cuts back to the
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: like flashback of Edward Norton and the scene.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so the like the most famous scene in the movie,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: the thing that everyone as a kid talked about with
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: each other of like the smiley It's like really and like, dude,
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: when this movie came out and I saw it when
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: it came out, I was fourteen years old, Like that's young,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Like I found like even
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: though they didn't show, especially because they didn't show it
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: actually happened. It almost like leaves more to the imagination,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: which is which makes it worse, and it's like, so tri.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: Didn't show they show they show him kicking the head in,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: but they cut away from it, like they they show
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: him put his teeth on the Oh man, look, look,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: I'll show you.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: No, they show the kick, but they don't they don't
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: show the face getting kicked in, Like.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: Oh man, it's so brutal and fucking Edward for along like.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: And later, dude, he writes and then subsequently deletes that
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: if he had testified, Derek would have gotten life in prison.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: So like stuff was like kind of like left out. Also,
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: do the cough that arrests It's okay who he's from.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: He's from a terminator, right, yeah, or he's the guy
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: who Swartze takes off his mask and he goes he
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: kind of like reacts a little bit delayed, I think,
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: so yeah, yeah, he does a great kind of like
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: Joelty uh side Danny maul rude cop performance. And I'll
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: never forget Edward Norton's face as he's like getting on
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: his knees, putting his jacked arms up and like he
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: just like he gives that like horrendous, like self satisfied
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: smile to his brother.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that smug, disgusting.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he is also like violence like this, that scene
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: is violence.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: Absolutely him right at right at the middle of the
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: movie too. That's when that happens where it's like you're
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: at your peak, peak vile and disgusting. And then our
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: boy Joseppe Andrews, well my voice Andrews ri ip not really,
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: but he's like one of the get oh yeah, dude,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: hey man, you're like a legend. Man, I knew I
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: recognized that guy. Yeah. Wait, so so Joseppe Andrews was
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: canceled or no, he's just there was rumors that he died,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: there was really he just disappeared. And then all of
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: his music strange guy. Yeah, all his music, all his
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: movies are gone. They're gone. Well yeah, gone gone. Yeah,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: I have touched me in the morning, but that's it. Uh.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: And then he his music's gone too. A lot of
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: his music, A lot of my favorite songs are gone
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: from online. But did you like download them? No? Whoa, Yeah,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: it's really hard. It sucks.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: Wow, it's I know, like at least one person's gonna
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: enjoy this conversation. Like a weird cultural icon. Giuseppe Andrews
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: like like Giuseppe.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: I want I wanted him so badly for we were once. Okay,
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: I emailed. I emailed his partner and I was like, hey, dude,
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: like I don't know if I don't know if he's
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: still doing stuff. And she was like, no, he's not
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: really an actor anymore and like doesn't really want to
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: be bothered. And I was like, fair enough, all right.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: I love his music, I love his stuff. I wish
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: he comes back. I'm a huge fan. Bye, I mean
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: that would be incredible.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: H He's he's a really like interesting presence and he
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: always like leaves an impact, including in this scene.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: But yeah, what happens in this scene. So they're at
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: like a punk show, like OI punk oy punk. Yeah,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: for as a Bulk gets gets like in her most
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: Nazi haircut, Yeah, the most Hillary haircut. And but at
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: the same time, Cameron played by Stacy Keach finally like
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: the real Cameron, this is the real one we get
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: to know, uh, And he's like, what do you mean real?
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: It's just concurrent, well, like in the sense that he
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: gets exposed as the kind of recruiter that he is,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: where it's like I'm faking my story, so that because
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: I have an ideology that you know, we're not I
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: looked it up you to do us. But but also uh,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: the sort of like disparaging of Avery Brooks and being
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: like he's not proud, you know, yeah, like having to
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: diminish someone's miculative, self righteous uncle Tom. And I was
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: just like, whoa dude?
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, like calling someone using someone else's like derogatory
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: term for each other, like as an outsider. Is also
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: like weirdly menacing and like super indicative of just how
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: like ideologically racist this guy is. They use a lot
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: of like subtle writing points to show just how evil
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: he is. Also the hairlip with the like broken tooth,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: such like nice touches for like this kind of to
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: the guy, you know, like the guy.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: But yeah, And in this scene, Edward Nordan's also trying
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: to convince for Za ballcative leave with him, and after
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: three years of like not seeing someone, not seeing someone
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: and then having that sort of like talk about violence,
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: she has that moment where it's like the most BPD,
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: Like she's.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: Like her cortisol levels are off the charge, like she's
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: like being hunted for sport. She's like, whoa dude, You're
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: you mean to say, you mean to say that you're
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: not a Nazi anymore?
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, basically like basically is you you mean to say?
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: And and yeah, there's a kind of like a gastness.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: There's a kind of like like she almost gets excited,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: which is really interesting, Like she gets activated in the
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: same way that she gets activated when she's like being
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: especially happy about being a Nazi, she gets especially sad
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: about him not being one anymore totally. And that power
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: thing that you mentioned earlier is interesting because she could
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: see the power dwindling, so it's like, how am I
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: going to use this in this situation now? And she
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: totally flips it on him, but then like calls him
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: out like like well, we'll get to that first. We
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: get Edward Norton talking to Stacy Keach and he's like
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: really disappointed that his brother is there, and Stacy Keach
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: coming very close to Edward Norton almost kissing him, being
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: like you're on safe ground, you know. Oh yeah, that
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: kind of like what very powers booth performance from Stacy Keege.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: Dude totally but like really like power hungry megalomaniac people
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: like this often like do this kind of like because
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: he feels guilty and culpable for Edward Norton's jail time
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: and like fueling his Nazi behavior. He sort of like
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: has to like make up for it by being extra
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: like nice and close to him to like also suss
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: out if he's like remained loyal. He's like, your ass
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: is safe and here is like also makes a rape
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: joke implying that you know, like the say like and
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: saying where he is safe by reminding him that he wasn't.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally wait till you see what we've done with
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: the Internet that I was like so interested in We've
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: got I mean, this is like but this is the
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: main the main building blocks for understanding why the alt
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: right could exist at all.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: This movie is such a like interesting precursor to that,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: like such a forewarning.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: It's it's right before all the like all the Nazi shi.
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: It was just like, nah, we don't need this, like
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Uh, And like part of
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: it too is like which I think part of partly
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: like socialists maybe need to do, is like kind of
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: like get rid of the branding aspect and be like okay,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: like let's less happening and refocus. I think that's mostly
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: happening because like a lot of people are like, oh yeah,
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: sickle and hand, but like all of people fall for
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: every kind of narrative because it's like it's easy. It
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: can become the religious, because it can become dogma anything
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: that anytime that anything can become dogma. Exactly. It's like
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: my mom and thought that became religious.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: You know it really it runs the risk of being
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: abused by bad faith actors, and sometimes like the bad
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: faith actors are just people who are trying to do
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: their best at a thing, but are just like misinterpreting
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: or mis representing a certain message.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: You know, totally. This is the scene where he's like,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: I love when he calls him out for being like,
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter whether or not I come back, because
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: the next cream of the crop is there. You're just
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: you're just gonna abuse somebody else. You're a fucking chicken hawk.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: Excuse me, oh man. The way he gets like you pray,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: how people can you use them?
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: He's not used to being challenged in this way too,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: and and like it's it's you can tell such a
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: cathartic moment for Edward Norton.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, watch the three main dudes. I think of
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: Jack is sort of in this category, not really but
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: like peripheral to it. Jack Nicholson, Yeah, Michael irons Michael Ironside,
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: Powers Booth, also Powers Booth and Stacy Key those you
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: have to have that kind of you have to have
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: that kind of gravelly voice, the gravitas of a gravelly voice.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: I was like, wait, what about the guy from Machinist.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: Oh that was as yeah, totally yeah dude. And then
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: he punches Cam and like right before he's like, if
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: you come near my family again to make you eat
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: your own heart or whatever bold move.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: And then he's like shit, like he's like worried, what
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: did He realizes when.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: He punches him, and he's like opening the door quietly
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: or whatever, and and he says that that line, I'm
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: more important to him than you ever were.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: It's like, whoa, Well, this is the thing, right he's
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: trying to like really it's a very powers Booth move.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: It's a powers move. Yeah, it's a power And then
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: speaking of powers moves, Ethan Sue Please moves where he
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: comes out with a gun pointed at and everybody's like
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: pointed to the side to totally you make the fucking
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: sick dude. It's such a great line because it also
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: is like a very record scratch moment because the music stops,
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: everything stops, and then like, oh man, like the most
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: passionate Ferusa comes out. She's just like nothing. But I
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: was just like she's like, shoots, totally do that, yeah,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: And I was just like, oh my god, dude, like
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: her excited, impassioned, like almost like predator like like jetting
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: glances and when when what's his name? Eddie Furlong is
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: like seth and what's his name? Edward Norton grabs the
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: gun that military style grabbing the gun where he like
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: twists his hand or whatever. Right, everybody got a fucking
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: calm down. He does one of.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: Those, yeah, and then he shoots in the air and
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: runs away, and and then what does Edward and throws
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: the throws the gun away.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: He throws the gun away, but then his prints Yeah,
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: he meets up later with or Edward forlong crashes into
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: him and he's like why did you do that? No? Yeah,
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: it's the most Sloby team performance. Now Here is where
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: the disjointedness comes in again, because this feels like a
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: totally different movie. When he's in prison, yeah, and it's like,
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: oh my god, there's still like forty nine minutes of
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: this movie, Like we're pumping the brakes so fucking hard.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: I think it's great on this movie just to get
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: like with this cop who comes in and he's like
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: like where he's like open the gates, open the gates,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: and he's like, I don't know, I think he might
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: be like Latino or something. But he's also like he
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: looks at Edward Norton and he's like, what are you doing, whitey?
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: You know, Like I like that they's purpose is because
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: they had like a like a like a marginalized race
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: or racialized person like actually inflicting the So it just
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: shows that it's more a power distribution thing rather than
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: a yeah, And it's kind of like an interesting thing
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: because like he's like in prison, he gets told by
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: what was the guy's name again, Linden, No, not Linden,
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: Oh you're you're talking h Lamont, Lamont, Lamont goes, Lamont
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: goes in here, and he says he tells him that
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: he's the N word, And it's like that that's also
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: like the first preview of that happening where where like
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: where there's like this guard who, like you know.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: Out in the outside world, Edward Norton would look down
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: upon Yeah, totally. And I like the seen as so ridiculous,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: but I loved the line I put up a white flag,
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: or I put up a flag and saw if somebody
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: recognized it or whatever, and he takes a shirt off. Dude.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: The way they showed the like subtle reactions of everyone
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: is kind of amazing, Like the close up facial reactions
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: of the black guys and then the close of facial
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: reactions of the Nazi dudes who were just like, hey,
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: check this guy out. But there's something really gay, gay
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: on purpose queer vibe about them. Yeah, and and they're
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: like especially with all the people there's the like head
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: of the gang, there's like a lot of staring down
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: that happens. Yeah, totally. It's really great. And then we
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: met meet Lamont, which I feel like would have been
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: better if we had done some of this stuff before,
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: like just peppered it throughout, like what prison was like,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: because it feels like a little storybook, like, ah, we're
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: kind of entering into this different world and this is
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: where he learns his lesson. You know. I feel like
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: it could have been peppered in differently.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe like he could have learned his lesson a
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: little differently. But this movie is all about like obvious.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: This movie is like he wants to be obvious. Even
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: like their reactions what I'm saying, like how they're like
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: they turn to each other, they're like, hey, check this guy.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: It's very like it looks like almost like.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: A Star Trek episode, Like there's like the actions are
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: performed to tell the story.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: It's operatic. Yeah, totally. And then the head of the
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: gang we get, we get Lamont's introduction. He controls the underwear,
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: so he's like a funny dude. So it's like kind
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: of he's being nicely disarming. Yeah, he's very disarming, and
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: he's he's being very nice to him in a way
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: that's still like managing to managing to stake out that
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: like I'm not really afraid of you, but also like
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: I'm willing to be nice to you even though because
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: we're working together and we're all in prison. He seems
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: to have a pretty enlightened attitude about Lamont. Lama No, no, No.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: Lamont has an enlightened attitude about being in prison that
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: seems to take a lot of while he is kind
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: of magical, it does there are people like this in
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: prison where it's like, I mean had like I never
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: had a chance, there was nothing I could have done, And.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if I'm going to go to jail for such
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: like a small thing, like there's really nothing I could
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: have done but be here, so like I think he
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: also like maybe tries to make the best of it.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. But speaking of not making the best of it,
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: Edward Norton is really upset at the fact that this
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: one dude in their White Supermacist gang is making deals
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: with some deals with the other gangs. Oh.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: Man, this like this guy's face like it's like so
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: bizarre looking. He almost looks like he looks like you
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: know who he reminds me of. He reminds me of
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: with the the Founders or whatever from Prometheus, the like originators,
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: what are they called the like that that that like
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: ubermanch Race, the jockeys space jockeys.
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: In which one in Prometheus? Oh? In Prometheus. Oh, they're
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: what's it called engineers? The engineers. He looks he looks like, yeah,
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: it's true. He looks like a combination of Brian Thompson. Oh,
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: my god. Brian Thompson. Brian, we get a scene with
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: Doris the mom, the only scene where they've been together
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: in in prison, and uh, Edward Norton has a freak
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: out where Lamont is like, hey, dude, like I'm trying
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: to do my job and I'm trying to be chill.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: Can we just fucking chill? And this is where he
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: starts warming up to him. Yeah, he starts warming up
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: to him, and he's like, you know, you might think
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: that I'm just like a dumb n word. And then
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: and then he puts a hood on protesticy. Oh my god.
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: It's like the iconic. It's really funny.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: And the way it's shot, like how he's framed, it's
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: kind of like a mid sort of like framing, and
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: he like crosses his eyes and holds the thing up
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: in such a such an interesting way. Like it's always
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: like really stood out to me as like incredibly cinematic.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: The way it's shot too, and like the way it's
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: lit and like the shadows that are being cast in
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: the scene. It's it's really cool. And I think the
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: movie is like purposely doing these grandiose things to like
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: show to highlight these like interesting moments, you know of
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: like realization, Yeah, totally.
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: Well, you see Edward Norton, he like gives the engineer
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: a kind of shit face, like a cock eyed look. Yeah,
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: because he's like, you're being so inconcern, dude, I'm Alex.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: You're being so inconsistent, dude, You're being so inconsistent, but
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: you're so inconsistent consistently matters, dude. And he it's contrasted
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: by another scene with Lamont and talking about what the
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: real world is like, and he's like, Oh, you've got
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: a girl and she she's mad at you. You gotta
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: have angry sex. And then like all sort of like
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: it like mimics the sex and like he orgasms and
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: they both laugh a lot. It's actually really funny and
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: it like made me laugh a lot too. It's a
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: really funny scene. And he like it's just like like
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: the charisma of this like performance is like so amazing,
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: and like I think was like highlighted on purpose. It's
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: like the guy is so likable that you can't not
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: like him, you know what I mean. So it sends
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: the writing of the the character. I agree. I agree.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: And the thing is too, is that you get the
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: cracks showing by Edward Norman starts ignoring the white supremacist guys.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: He starts playing basketball on the court, and then we
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: get the scene wait wait wait, the founder guy or
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: the engineer guy tries to like hail Hitler him and
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: Overnorn just snubs snubs him. Yeah, and then he gets
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: raped in the shower.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: Oh dude, it's such a like upsetting scene. Like everybody
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: like subtly quietly leaves. Also we get side the penis
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: of Edward nor Norton that's been looks like it's been
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: fluffed a little bit. I think he was like, well,
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: I can't be looking like I'm.
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: Small, Tony. Come on, let me make me edit the movie.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: Let me just like, you know, put a little bit
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: blood in it, you know, like I'm not saying hard.
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: It's a semi come on, ed And that's what this is.
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: The seed he was editing. That's why it was. This
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: was ten minutes of the movie. But yeah. Then it
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: cuts to like different parts of him bleeding or the
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: white white power tattoo that he has.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: And then Avery Brooks comes to visit him, and which,
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: like this part also felt a little magical because of wait,
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: a minute Vietnam were like, wait a minute, if you
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: think about it too long, why is why is he
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: coming to visit him? Well, in part because community outreach.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: It was community outreach, but also he was a student, right,
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: and he loved him when he was his student, right,
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: and then he become a Nazi and feels like maybe
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: he failed him in a way something, because it was
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: like he was like remember because this later on in
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: the scene with his dad, he's like, oh, but he's
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: got such good ideas or whatever, you know, native Son,
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: native Son oh Man. The performance of The Boy Meets World.
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: He's so good. We will talk about it. We'll talk
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: about his like elevated Danny old rude dad status, like
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: get gets a full like monologue in the movie, but bullshit,
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: but he's bullshit.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: I love that. Also, Avery Brooks is like, you're not
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: You're smart enough to see the holes in this bullshit too. Yeah,
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: And also like connecting it with his own experience and
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: his own experience, he's he's relating to him and and
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: it's it's you know what, as much as the the
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: I don't see color has become such a like easy
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: talking point to dismiss at least it's a good, uh
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: like guide to go for in the same way that
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: like when people it's the same way, I feel like
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: people criticize that, in the same way that people criticize socialism,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: in the way that like it's like, oh, well, that's
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: never going to happen, and it's like okay, but like,
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: you know, there are things to strive for. You don't
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: have to just like like mimic all of the world
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: that's existed before. You can look for different things and
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: try and strite worse. Right. But I feel like when
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: people say that now because it's gotten a lot of
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: traction with like being like, ah, that's so stupid. It's
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: like okay, but like I get it that it's not
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: really like that. But you know, like you have to
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: like strive for something, you know, And that's what I
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: think Avery Brooks, like Avery Brooks's function in the movie
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: is it's a striving for better, something better, because he
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: knows it's not perfect either, right, He's he's mad too, and.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: He acknowledges that later on when he is coaxing Edward
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: Norton into like trying to retrieve information or like trying
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: to relay some kind of information to the white nationalists,
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: you know, like he's he wants them to like work
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: for him a little bit into.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: That's one of the best parts is like he's like,
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: on four months, my my thing is coming up, can
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: you put in a good movie? Like I already have,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: I already have. But also I want you to do
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: more work. I don't want to do the work. You
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: need to do the work you fucked up. You need
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: to him though, Yeah, he wants you. Of course, he
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: wants to offer him the the he wants to offer
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: him the opportunity and the opemption of redemption. And he's
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: giving him that, but he needs to do the work
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: in order for that redemption to hold and to be real,
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: you know. And then later on we get the white
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: supermasis laughing at the fact that, uh, you know, Edward
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: Doran can't sit down or walk because he got six stitches.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: And then and then the scene with Lamont telling him like, hey, man,
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: like you don't need to be worried about those guys.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: You need to be worried about the rest of the
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: people in this prison who now know that nobody has
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: your back. Yeah, exactly. And then that's shown really well
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: with people like he like looks.
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: At people kind of like looking at him angrily. Yeah,
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: totally and menacing. But the way menace is used in
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: this movie is just like the only other movie I
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: can think of that comes close to using menace in
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: this way in the same sort of nineties way is uh,
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: what's that Lake movie?
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: Kasla oh Cape Fear? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, It's true.
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: Menace is very well used in that that way. Not lake.
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: It's a river, is it on a river? Yeah? Can't
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: come out, come out wherever you. And then the implication
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: is that Lamont actually like did quite a bit behind
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: the scenes to like have this person's back, which is
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: very sweet. But it also does feel that that part
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: really feels like I'm really helping this white guy be saved.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: I know, yeah, like and it does feel like an
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: out of touch like why dude wrote that part totally,
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: but did it really Like again, it's the magicalness, it's
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: the sentiment of it is also like really important, which
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: Tony kay also did you know what I mean?
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: So it's like forgivable, it's it's it's there, there's there
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: is a genuine sentiment to it of like wanting to
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: be It's just ignorant of its of itself, you know,
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: like it is it wants to be like this, like
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: present this utopia, but like it's, it's ignorant of like
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: certain realities.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: The thing that would make the reality better, the thing
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: that would make the reality better is if if it
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: was said that, because let me start that again, if
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: if they put the prison scenes sprinkled throughout Lamon's character
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have been so narrowed into just that one scene.
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: The problem that you face in this is that Edward
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: Norton is now telling the story to Edward Furlong of
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: why he became the way he became post the party
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: shifts perspective and and the thing is it it really
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: works for that, but as a whole I think it
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: it takes away from the movie. Yeah, I agree, I agree.
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: And and you know, we got Edward Norton and Edward
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: for Along talking and Edward for Along really really listening
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: and saying it's wrong, and it eats me up and
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: I keep asking myself how I bought into this shit.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: And even still in the moment we see Edward for
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: Along kind of still being in that world. It's on
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: the knife's edge of being in that world and this
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: isn't the tipping point yet for him, but it is
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: on the path to be that. Well he got his
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: first tattoo, dude, yeah, exactly. You can't go back now.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: But the fact that that he comes home and he's
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: with his mom and he's with his family, and it's
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: it's the first moment he doesn't feel the anger that
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: could lead to hate, the more hate that that Cam
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: is trying to like a like Drudge fan. Oh yeah,
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: and you know they he kisses his baby sister, he
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: hugs his mom. They have a nice moment and then
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: they go into the room and they start taking off
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: off the Nazi stuff, which is still corny, but it's great.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: It really worked for me. Slow motion taking ship down.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: Wait did you get the how?
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: Like when is the scene when he's leaving and he
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: thanks Lamont?
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: Oh this that was the scene where he's like, we
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: don't talk about him like thanking Lamont, but that being
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: kind of a bittersweet, not because it's bittersweet because Lamont
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: is in jail, but bittersweet because it's like I saved you,
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: I saved you from being killed, right, and.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: Well we we also didn't talk about how Lamont explains
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: how he got to prison.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, which was like, yeah, do it. Yeah, that's
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: a really important part that we didn't go over. You know.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: He explains that he he was stealing a TV, but
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: that wasn't the embarrassing part. The embarrassing part was that
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: he dropped the TV and it fell on the cops foot.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: Well, he passed the shop and there were three cops,
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: and he's that was embarrassing, but he did it beside
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: it and he dropped the TV on the on the
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: cops foot, and the cops said that he threw the
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: TV at them.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: So he got six years instead of a shorter sentence
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: because and like it's all because he's black and like
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: like a real ever one really like is like really
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: like he's like, this is the first time he's ever
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: heard of this.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's like but it's like you you threw it, right,
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: like you threw it And he's like no, dude, Like
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: there's no and there's no reason for him to lie.
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: Already embarrassing, right, So it's like, yeah, dude, that's what happened,
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: and that's what that's what this looks like. It's not
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: about exactly you and me. For some weird supremacy. It's
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: there's a system that exists, didn't even have to it
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: doesn't even have to be like, no racist cops have
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: to even be in that system for it to be racist.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: It just affects this group more on a scale that's
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: much wider than just prison, but but on a country
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: wide level. And you know, he does get a sort
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: of eye opening experience from that. But because it's like
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: I'm getting out and this guy has to stay for
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: something that's like, yeah, it sucks. Yeah, but they're taking
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: off their Nazi paraphernalia all that stuff. And it's a
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: powerful scene despite being sort of it's very but it
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: is powerful. It is it's the use of slow motion.
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: The beautiful slow motion in this and the entire movie
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: is amazing, Yeah, and so effective. And you know there
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: there's a kind of a rawness to being this corny. Yeah,
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's so raw, you want to say that
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: Humpty dumpty directly exactly.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 3: And then.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: Three gang members or three guys I don't even know
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: if they're in a gang. Actually they're just the school
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: chums that he has that are that are passing by
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: Edward Forlong's place and like he does a little one
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: of the guys does a little gun motion, and Edward
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: Forlong is writing his paper. This is the scene where
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: he says that Derek, if Derek were to tell his story,
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: it would have started at like it would have started
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: at like a certain point, but it actually started when
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: their dad was much earlier.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: So we get we get our most how to do
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: fellow young young kids.
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, meme of Steve Buscemi in an old old like
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: he addressed as a young kid, Edward Norton where with
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: the like the grosses long wispy front bags wig. Well,
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: it's funny because they're trying to emulate what Edward Furlong's
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: at natural hair looks like, and they do kind of
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: a pretty good job. But the like uncanniness of it,
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: it's like so weird.
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 6: It's so weird, And we get like the most like
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 6: magically racist fucking dad from It's kind of the way
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 6: that you would remember someone being racist.
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like you would remember the most egregious example
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: of it. And like, I guess that's why he goes back.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: He flashes back to this moment Edward Furlong does and
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: he's remembering as a sad John Connor, long hair teen
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 2: watching his dad and his brother have the six Change
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: where his brother's like, you know this guy Sweeney, Like
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 2: he's like really amazing, Like I'm learning a lot from him,
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: and it's like kind of like this wonder of like
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: I remember being this inspired by certain teachers English teachers
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: of course, as a young queer kid, like where you're like, yeah,
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 2: like there's somebody who gets it that there's something fucked
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 2: up about the world or different or cool and is
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: speaking to my teenage like, you know, like discovering all
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: of these things. And so he's showing this kind of
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: like innocent impressionability and like, to be fair to Edward Norton,
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 2: he actually plays it like a kid in such a
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: good way. He embodies the kind of like naivete a
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: childlike naivete that's really good of like looking at his
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: dad with such like wonder and hope and also like
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: a little bit disappointed, but also like, oh, I guess.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: This is what I guess He's right, I guess I
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: have to kill this part of myself for this exactly
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: exactly performs well in the scene, and Edward for Along
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: does too, and Edward for a Loong. I very much
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: had the opposite experience. I had the Edward for a
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: long experience of not being impressed by any teacher and
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: being being the this kid like where somebody was trying.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 2: You didn't have anybody to look up to except for me,
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 2: and then you became a Nazie.
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's but it was. It is interesting
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: that that's how it happened, because yeah, I I didn't
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: really have because we had we had the same English teacher,
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: and I felt a complete.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 2: You didn't have the same uh well, you know, like
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 2: I think also like i'd had the veil lifted a
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: little bit, and maybe I had also done some veil
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: lifting for you of that teacher, like just like of
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 2: the like kind of like you know.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know, like.
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe they weren't what I thought they were.
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: You know, well no, I mean they were what you
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: thought they were, but maybe what they were just I
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: grew out of what they were, yeah, and you you
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: grew out of it, and I I just I just
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: had a I had a similacrum of an experience that
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: you had all the experiences that were supposed to happen,
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: whether it be from like movie experiences didn't happen, which
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: I knew that weren't they weren't going to happen. But
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: also the experiences that you had that I was trying
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: to emulate or mimic, well yeah, they just didn't work right.
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: So it felt like all the veils could be lifted
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: faster for me because you had gone through them. So
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: it was like, okay, well this is Yeah.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 2: You already had kind of an inherent mistrust of some
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 2: of those things, so I felt like.
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: Almost everything to a degree that was like unhealthy and
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: not really young psycho.
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're a little bit feral for a while. Like
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: I remember high school Alex, like very forrest Alex, long hair,
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: entangled hair Alex.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was, it was. Yeah, it was like no
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: real friends, always sort of on the peripheries of everything,
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: distrusting everything, very holding callfield Alex. Yeah, but not like
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: I don't very helter skelter. That's way more what was
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: because like at least that's an ideology, right, like being
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: like you're a phony, right, Like that's fine, that's what
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: a kid's supposed to be like, as opposed to like
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: what's what's dangerous? But like not alcohol dangerous or smoking weed,
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: not fun, dangerous, real, yeah, totally what will make me
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: feel things. And then Edward Norton the next day, putting
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: on a tie, being a gentleman and being friends with
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: his family, cupping the sad way sad way gently cupping
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: the Nazi symbols and like it. It shows like I mean,
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: he was very he was very sad, and like he
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: was very sad, very sick, no one was, and he.
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: He cups it in a way that shows true redemption.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: Everyone ashamed of his past, ever Norton, but not enough
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 2: to get it covered up.
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: Of course he's just gotten out of prison. But but
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: here's here is the interesting thing about this movie that
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: when Anna says the like a movie wouldn't be made
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: this way, and she's right, and part of that, part
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: of it is kind of a problem because this is
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 1: this is good to have an ability to have redemption
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: out of something that's a heinous thing. I agree with you.
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 2: But but the thing is, the reason it wouldn't be
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: able to is because of how heinously, like like the
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 2: mask was lifted off of the Nazi problem in America
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 2: and how how amplified it got.
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but also like you can you can say that
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: it got amplified because of the fact that there's if
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: there's no well it.
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 2: Had these if this movie in the culture didn't prevent it,
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 2: the amplification from happening.
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: It's not supposed to prevent it. It's just inform us.
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: It's supposed to offer some space for like, hey, man,
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: like you don't have to be this part of the
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: reason people feel like they need to be in groups
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: like this, and whether it be alt right or anything
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: that's going to come up in the future, it's like
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: part of part of how you have to approach making
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: society better is having empathy for people that are heinous. Right.
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: I agree with you. I agree with you.
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: But I think part of the reason that this movie
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: was even made was because there was this kind of
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: like hubrius of the of the nineties that they thought
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 2: they had solved a lot of racism. So like this
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 2: is like show from a way of like we're more
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 2: enlightened and we see things in a different way.
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: Look at this like story that's I think that that's
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think that that's like the
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: same criticism people give of wokeness. I think that that's
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: the equivalent to it's like, ah, these liberal Hollywood people
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: thinking they've solved racist It's like, no, dude, they're mentioning
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: Rodney King happened. They're mentioning that, Like this is an
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: intersection of but it's the time, you know, its time,
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: and that's what people like. That's what I'm saying.
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 2: There's a little bit of hubris in thinking that you
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: have like some kind of better understanding because like you
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: know what I mean, like there is a kind of
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 2: way that it like ends up dating itself, right, because
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, I.
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: Mean, the datedness is dating, right, It's that's part of
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: what what happens. So why wouldn't a movie like this
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: be able to be made.
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: I feel like there's like that people still show empathy
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: for for people with opposing viewpoints.
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: It's not about empathy for opposing viewpoints. It's about empathy
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: for a person to be able to change, to be
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: able to be something different than they are, rather than
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: just being like, well, you're this and you're forever going
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: to be this, and you're not useful anymore. You're only
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: useful to me as a tool to bash, and that's it.
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: And that ends up, from my view, it ends up
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: forcing people to just stay where they are. Like it
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: just like when I taught man the job that I
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: do now, Like so many of them are like very
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: conservative people, right, And part of it is like, you know,
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: if I'm attacking them with like ah, but this, it
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: feels like they'll hide away into their like worldview even
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: more as opposed to well, you know, I had a guy,
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: for example, be like to me, well, it's I mean,
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: it's their culture, man, they just have a different culture.
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: He's a young guy, young father, and it's like like
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: he's a nice person, but like it's very clear that
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh, man, like you grew up in a
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: very particular way and like you have insane experiences and
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: you have a worldview that like you know, won't be
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: changed overnight, and but also won't be changed by me
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: being like you know, but you're you're wrong. It's actually
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: this look at the facts on this. It's more like
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: like it's more gentle prodding than it is like you
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: know this kind of movie where it's like, oh, I
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: get to punch a Nazi in the face and he's
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: cam and I got to save my brother, you know
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: what I mean. It's not it's like change doesn't happen
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: in a way that's like, uh, overnight, we like saved
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: your brother. It's more like it's probably not like that,
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: is it?
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: Like well, I mean I think like in this movie,
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 2: you know, he goes to jail and he learns a lesson,
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: He genuinely learns a lesson. I'd like to believe that
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 2: people do. I think they do, and there's stories of
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 2: them doing so.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: So like oh, I meant, I meant Edward forlong changing Overnight,
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: not like that's obvious that he has like obviously an
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: epophonic moment of like yeah, like this is so different.
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: It's like but like as a real life example, this coworker,
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 1: like like, that's not gonna That's not how I'm gonna
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: change his mind if if that's my goal, you know
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: what I mean? Right, But then again, movies like this
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: won't fucking do it either, Like you're right, It's not
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: like you might get like he might like a movie
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: like this and get like a lot of people who
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: like have a lot of like weird viewpoints about certain things,
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: like like movies like and like they like things from
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: thirty years ago because they think it's like classic or classic. Yeah,
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: as opposed to now where it's woke exactly. It's like
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: this movie is woke, Like there's nothing like not really
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: that woke about it. You know, Like it's like and
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: it does like a pretty good job at most of
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 1: the things. Like it's like, sure it has like the
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: nineties tropes and problems that we've like already highlighted as
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: we talk, but it's like, you know, yeah, it's it's
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: saying that it's espousing the same kind of message. They
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: just they just find it palatable because it's like because
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: they they grew up with it or it's the part
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 1: of their language. Well, and it's framing the white view.
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: It's still framing the white view. So it's like, well,
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: they told me a story about like now they see
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 1: like black characters doing and they're like, oh, they're shoving
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 1: something down my throat, and it's like, no, they're not.
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: They're just like showing different perspectives. But these were these
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 1: were also shoving it down their throats. It's just they
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 1: just see their dad was Boy Meets World Dad, And
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: now now these guys dad is exactly is Edward Norton,
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Their dad is like like
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: the sinisterness of it, like and how he's like, yes,
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it, yeah, and it's gonna say what
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: people don't sometimes though, I'm like, you know, like and
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: I know this happens in the States that like women
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 1: end up like married to like men who have like
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: views like this, but like she doesn't and her daughter doesn't,
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 1: so like presumably like why is she like okay being married.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 2: Like why isn't she like don't say this to my son?
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: Like no, I mean there are these are these are
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 1: products of their time, Like this is like beating He's
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: like yeah, no, Like he's like there's a violence. I
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: don't think so I don't think he's beating his Well
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 1: there's at least a threat in the household. I mean
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: I'm sure there there might be for sure, But I'm
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: what I think it is is their products probably of
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: the fifties, like the thing that got you like a
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 1: man or a woman, the thing that got you a
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: woman was a paycheck. He's a fireman, he's handsome. They're
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: like not talking about politics. Maybe you're right, you know
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: what I mean, Like so so like in my mind,
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: it's more just like it was a lot of people
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: are are light. We're like that, you know, and they
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: also like they had she had probably has some like
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: weird toxic views too, But like it's it's just something
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: that's like it would probably be now where it's like, well,
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean this, I'm for civil rights, but
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 1: this trans thing, you know what I mean. It's it's
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: like that, do we have to call them women? Yeah, exactly,
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 1: And it's it's it's just like a different kind of fight.
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: It's a different kind of speaking of fight. This weird intrigue. Oh, actually,
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: Edward Nordon's been working for the cops this whole time,
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 1: A little bit weird, a little bit thrown in at
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: the end. I would have accepted it more if the
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: movie was ninety minutes long. But it's kind it's kind
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: of outrageous because it's like, but it just has the
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: show that he's a good guy and he's working with
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: Now he's friends with Avery Brooks and they solve crimes together,
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: racism crime. Yeah, they totally solve racism crimes. But they
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: go he wants to walk his brother to school. I
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 1: would be so paranoid, Like I'd be so fucking paranoid
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: if I did that last night and now I'm taking
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: my brother's school. Like I'd be like, dude, taking my
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 1: brother out of this school. Sorry, see you later. I'm
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: fucking fucking out of this town. You know what I mean.
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 1: It feels what's cool about it is that it feels
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: irresponsible in a very in a very yeah like or
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: or character based way for this character to do it.
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: But also it's like, you know, hey, dude, like this
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: isn't good. This isn't like you get this is fucked,
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: you know. And they go to this diner where Avery
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 1: Brooks is like, hey, man, I need you to take
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: down this fucking gang with me. Oh man, and like
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: he's like, no, let me, let me take my brother
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: to school and then I'll help you. And they have
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 1: like they have this moment where it's like, oh, go
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 1: get your paper in and it's a little bit like corny,
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: it's a little bit cheesy. I mean sure, but they
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: look like they're going to have a good time. They
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: want to have a good time. They're happy, like they're
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: happy that racism is solved. Yeah, totally, Racism is solved
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: for America. This is America. It's solving racism with Edward Norton. Yeah,
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: and you know, the the like the kid who, man,
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: this scene is so impressive, it's so cool, all the
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: slow mo, the fucking Edward Norton, Edward Prolong peeing in
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: the urnal and then seeing the black dude bully from
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: the beginning of the movie and then getting shot in
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 1: slow motion, and.
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 2: Then the sad eyes that the bully has, like you're
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 2: just like, oh, man, like this guy did not want
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 2: to do this, like and he's like so sad.
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 1: And the perpetuation of the violence, the very systemic violence
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: that brought him to this situation where he thought that
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: this was a good way to solve the problem. And
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 1: you know, like it could be seen as like a
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: really really tone deaf ending, which to some degree it is.
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 1: It is a little bit tone deaf in what respect
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: in the way that like it wraps it up in
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 1: the movie, up in a way that it is like
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: like systems of violence perpetuate systems of violence. But having
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 1: that as the final message of your movie really con
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 1: contradicts the idea that black people face a lot of
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: violence against them by white people, and to have it
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 1: focused in this way about like violence perpetuods violence kind
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 1: of eliminates that element. Yeah, because it takes away that
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 1: like the systemic area, yeah, or it de emphasizes the
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: systemic part rather than like, you know, sort of bolstering it.
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: It could have been bolstered. But ultimately as melodrama, totally works.
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 2: But I think, like, okay, if I can just push back,
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: and I usually don't, but like, I feel like because
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 2: the movie has an element where it doesn't really judge
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 2: the kid for doing it, you know what I mean,
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: like it like he kind of like it's like, yeah,
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: everything you're saying is true, But I don't think it
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 2: really under I don't think the message is undermined because
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 2: I don't think the movie doesn't even show the kid
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 2: arrested or brought away after. It just shows the after Yea.
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 2: So I feel like there's like a way that it
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 2: kind of is like I don't know, it just uses
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 2: it to make it poetic, right.
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: I think that's true, and I think that's why it
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: works as melodrama. But the thing is is that I'm
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: less concerned about the individual kid and more concerned about
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 1: the audience that it's hitting, right, because the audience won't
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 1: necessarily go by, oh I'm going because I've seen this,
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 1: we've both seen this movie a bunch of times. Right,
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 1: It's not like you know, people see a movie and
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 1: then they they watch it and it's like, oh, it's done.
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: They just kind of they don't dwell on anything. They
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 1: kind of watch it and they're like, oh, okay, well
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 1: it's done. Violence perpetuates violence, cool, see you later. It
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 1: could just be that the movie could have more impact
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: in this particular way, or I would have done it
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 1: in this kind of way rather than like, how would
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: you have done it? I? Well, like I think parts
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: of it I've already said, where like spreading out of
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: the prison stuff would allow for the like non magicalness
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: of it to happen, and it would have actually made
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 1: this part a little bit more interesting. But also, if
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 1: you're gonna do something like this as a final touch,
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: maybe out a little bit more to the character than
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 1: just throwing him in once in a while and like
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: having him like be a menacing presence in the movie.
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: I agree. But it's interesting insofar as he could be
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: a parallel also for gang violence in where he is right,
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 1: because you know he's coming from a particular place, he's
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 1: coming from a particular time, he's surrounded by a particular thing,
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: and they show that kind of but yeah, he's in
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 1: a world he's like the like the foil to Edward
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: frol right, he's like the others the oppositition, yeah, exactly,
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 1: or like the parallel. He's the parallel to Edward forlong.
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 1: But there's so many things happening in the movie that
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 1: you have to kind of cut the fat in a
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: lot of places when writing, when editing or whatever. Well, so,
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 1: what didn't Tony Ka like about this cut of the movie,
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 1: do you know? Yeah, part of it is the the
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: melodramatic parts that I really like. With the family stuff.
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 1: There's a lot more additional stuff dialogue wise, apparently with
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 1: the dad, the scenes where they're sitting down around dinner
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Apparently there's like fifteen twenty minutes
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: of the movie that's just like pacing stuff as well,
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 1: which I noticed this time in like reading the movie,
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 1: the movie feels not janky. It's not that it's paced poorly,
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 1: it's there's something kind of off about the pacings. The
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: slow gallop. It's a slow gallop. Yeah, Actually, what you
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: said it was a perfect description of it, where where
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 1: you have a you have like all of a sudden,
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: a lot of things happening at the back end of
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 1: a movie of the movie that feel like almost like
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: Full Metal Jacket, where it feels like two separate movies
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 1: put together, but they have the same characters in them.
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 1: But I would say that the difference between a movie
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 1: like Full Metal Jacket is that there's a stark contrast
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 1: between the first and last half. Here, there's just a
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 1: confused confusion of yeah, like because there's a whole part
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: of that this movie where it's black and white yeah,
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: as opposed to what we've seen at the beginning of
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: the movie, which is black and white color, black and
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: white color, black and white color. It's like there's a
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 1: rhythm to it that all of a sudden gets really
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: interrupted with this magical moment of like I've learned a lesson. Yeah,
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: and then the it kind of draws away from the
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 1: impact of the climax of the movie. The climax is
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: so intense anyway. I mean, I would argue.
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 2: Though that the the editing, while janky, admittedly yes, it
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 2: really kind of I can't picture this movie any other way, No,
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 2: I can't, you know what I mean, Like it almost
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 2: like it adds to it adds to it.
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: It's like when we were talking about Boondock Saints. I
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 1: can't picture that movie in any other way, despite all
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 1: the problems that I have with the writing and the editing,
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 1: It's just stapled in my mind in that way.
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like like that's what I'm wondering, Like, you know,
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 2: like if Tony k really hates this movie so much,
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 2: it's such an important movie to so many people, and
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 2: I agree, like it's not it's not perfect, and I
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 2: can see that they're but I like, I can see
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 2: that there were problems and that there were issues, but
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 2: I can't see where it would have been totally.
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 1: And sometimes sometimes movies like that just work really well.
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 1: Like it's Edward Norton's as much a filmmakers as anybody
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 1: else on that crew, right, So it's like him going
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 1: in and being like, I want it this way. There
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 1: is still an idea of what someone wants. It's not
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 1: like some producer coming in and being like, you know,
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 1: shitting out something, because it's just like, well, whatever it
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 1: functions like, there is an intention behind it. But I
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 1: can see also that it wasn't the person that did
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: its intention. You can feel that in the movie. But
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter at that at this point, like
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 1: the movie works as what it is. I think, I
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 1: think so. And you know, the thing I talked about
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of the movie where American melodrama hadn't
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: had this kind of heyday since probably a really long time,
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 1: probably since the fifties in between, because they're like, you know,
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: there was like realist stuff in the seventies, and then
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 1: the eighties went fucking bonkers with like neon and lights
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 1: and like synth, Like there's a syntheticness to those not
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 1: critics also awesome, yea cool, but like like this kind
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: of like I'm gonna use just pure emotion to like
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 1: rock somebody's world and like use music to like you know,
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 1: like encompass that emotion and serve that emotion. I don't know,
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 1: it's like the late nineties into the two thousands was
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: sort of like that final heyday, and now I think
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 1: like we're trying sort of new combinations of like let's
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 1: put some synth in some realist movies and some you know,
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 1: you know whatever. You know, it's like trying interesting things now.
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 1: So but like now the medium is sort of dwindling away,
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: so it doesn't really matter, but we'll get our tiktoks
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 1: and that's cool too, like this is some cool stuff online.
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 1: That's well, So what would you rate the movie, because
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 1: like I think I would rate it a nine out
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 1: of ten, and for all of the reasons that you
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 1: very like beautifully illustrated, I think it's a nine.
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 2: You know, like I think it's almost perfect movie, and
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 2: I think that it also is made better by the
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 2: things that are imperfect about it, because it's like idiosyncratic
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 2: and unusual, but like also really memorable as a result,
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 2: like Elliott Gould like such like like bombshell performances by everyone.
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 1: Like so yeah, and it's also like in a way
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 1: like it's not the most a list heavy movie. It
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 1: actually I would say arguably like helped a Furlong or
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 1: at Norton sorry, achieve a list status, and it had
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 1: kind of like Avery Brooks is like star Trek, but
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 1: like he's good.
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 2: He's really good in the really and like you know,
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 2: like everyone everyone's like really like anyway.
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 1: Edward Furlong also on his down on the downside, it's
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 1: unfortunate because it's like, well, no, this is still peak
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 1: for well, like Edward Edward Furlong, not on his down
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 1: but in the in the way that it's like, this
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 1: kid needs help in ways that are the industry has
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 1: abused him totally, and it's so like unfair that this
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 1: guy didn't get a chance to like break at least
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 1: even character actor status for a long time. I know,
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 1: like like you know, got to be in Pecker with
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: great movie. Yeah, that's a fun movie. Got to be
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 1: in Detroit Rock City with Adam Rifkin. Like people people
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 1: who knew Adam Rifkin and John Waters is in Andrews
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 1: and Jose Andrews in Detroit Rock City. Yeah, like the
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 1: these were kinds of guys who John Waters and Rifkin,
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 1: or kinds of guys who understood the power that somebody
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 1: like and Edward Norton could have, somebody like a Giuseppe
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 1: Andrews could have the kinds of guys who understand when
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 1: I'll say something like Rob Shuder is actually pretty good act,
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like as opposed to like
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 1: revolted reactions like that's such a base take, like people
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 1: they just don't know. Yeah, I I but I would
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 1: give it an eight point five, Okay, I'd give it
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 1: an a point five, in part because it is an
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 1: imperfect movie man. Talking about it now, though, I'm like, yeah,
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 1: I'll just give it a nine. Who gives a ship,
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 1: I'll give it a nine too. I really love this movie.
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 1: It holds a lot of special feelings for me in
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 1: terms of my growth as a person who like, like
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 1: likes talking about movies, likes making movies. It's so cinematic,
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 1: it's so cinema, it's so like exciting and Tony Ka
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 1: like it sucks that he never really achieved. Yeah, and
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 1: he's like a weird guy, but I can see that
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 1: from that documentary interview. Yeah, he's just like an oddball person,
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 1: but and probably difficult to work with to some degree.
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, like as a vision, very interesting,
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 1: very very cool. I wish he made more stuff. He
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 1: made a movie with Adrian Brody in twenty eleven, cult Attachment,
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 1: which is a little cringe. It's a little bit it
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 1: doesn't didn't age quite as well as this. But can
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 1: I talk to you about Eddie Norton for a second, Yeah, sure,
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 1: I Like, I don't think you and I have touched
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 1: enough on like his unique presence in movies. Man, he
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 1: is like a Brando, that's his I listened to him
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 1: on Rogan, Yeah, and he Brando is his guy. James
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 1: Dean is his guy. So it's like, what's it called
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 1: the I was gonna say therapy acting, the therapy acting,
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 1: you know, but yeah, he is very much in that realm.
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 1: I think the reason he's understated is because the performances
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 1: are all while having that unique voice that he has,
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 1: are all so different. And he achieved, he achieved character
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 1: actor status only after his like big big, like ah,
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 1: is he a star? He can be a star, And
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 1: he almost feels like a Michael Fossbender a little bit
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 1: where it's like they over used him in a in
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 1: a small bit of time and then people were like
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 1: and iconically they all used totally iconically. And I agree
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 1: with you.
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 2: I think he's an interesting presence because there, you know what.
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 1: I have a theory. I think it's because he's got
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a like a resting douche face
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 1: and also like coupled with like the resting douche personality
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 1: or the raging which like give I see him a
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 1: bit of an unlikability. I think you know, you know
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 1: who he reminds me of who the modern equivalent to
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 1: me is Ryan Gosling. But Ryan Gosling managed to Yeah, well,
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: he managed to like sort of like EBB and flow
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: with like, well, am I am I being a a
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 1: am I gonna be a star? Nope? All right, going
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 1: back to like indie flicks, going back to indy flicks.
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 1: And then like once he got into like okay, well
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 1: I got the groove. Now, okay, cool, I'm a star.
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 1: Now I can do some choices now, you know what
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 1: I mean. Whereas like Edward Norton like tried tried to
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 1: be in the MCU, tried to be Bruce Banner. That
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 1: didn't work. His personality didn't didn't mesh with that at all,
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 1: because like that was two thousand and eight when he
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 1: did do Incredible Hulk. That's like, oh, like I can
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 1: still be an artist in this field, not fucking superhero bullshit.
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go into the editing room and fuck I'm
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 1: Edward Norton. I was fucking Tyler Dirton, you know, like
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 1: I'm and then I was unreliable one well, I was
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 1: Sebastian in the Fight Club sequel comic book, But What
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 1: has a Name? In Part two of the comic book,
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 1: of Fight Club. He does have. His name is Sebastian
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 1: and also for some reason, what's his name is? In
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 1: the Man. It's such a two. It's such a like
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 1: gen X trying to be comic books and he wrote himself,
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 1: wrote himself in the comic Yeah, well listen, I I
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 1: would give it. How many furlongs would you give it? Dude?
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 1: Easily ten out of ten furlongs?
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 2: Like emotional vulnerability, he's the best. He's the best actor.
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 1: In the movie, in the absolutely and he's the best
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 1: character in the movie too. I think because he's he's
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 1: more of a redeemable character because he never fully gets pilled.
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 1: He's always got the like emotionality, like he'll talk the talk,
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 1: but he's like gentle, but he's like some of them
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 1: are all right, I guess like just like tell them
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 1: all right, I guess telling moments like that where like
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 1: you you can tell his soul doesn't want to be this,
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 1: you know, but like his surroundings just like require it
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 1: of him. Part part of it is that part of
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 1: it is like not I I'm not having I don't
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 1: have my dad, but I'm a little bit too young
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 1: to have that much like oh, he's my dad. Mainly
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 1: it's my brother that's the cool one, right like me
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 1: with you? Yeah, interesting and yeah, so I think Edward frolonges, dude,
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 1: brothers fucking eleven sou please, oh dude, fucking eleven. Avery
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 1: Brooks I'll give ten o to ten. Avery Brooks's I
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 1: will give ten out of ten. I think, like for
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 1: you being like in a mind cub like dude, like that,
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 1: you're right, You're right? He is, he is it incredible,
• 2:18:03
  Speaker 1: especially to have that responsibility in this movie. That's true,
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 1: that's true. He was up to the task. Sorry, what
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: were we gonna say? I gonna say, you ate Eton
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 1: soup lez you were listing it off? Oh oh eleven
• 2:18:21
  Speaker 1: ethan soup lez eleven Avery Brooks's and eleven Ferusa Bulks
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 1: the Stacy Keaches ten out of ten Stacey's he's, I mean,
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 1: he's the thing is the thing. The thing about the
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 1: tens out of tens, in my mind, they're perfect. In
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 1: my mind. A ten out of ten is like, yeah,
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 1: ten out of ten, that's cool. Stanley Koberg is a
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 1: ten out of ten. David Lynch ten at ten, Marks Cerz,
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 1: I don't care about tens out of ten. I care
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 1: about when somebody fucking above and beyond everyone else and
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 1: they're just like a Ferusa where it's like, because you
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 1: expect tens out of ten ends from people that we listed,
• 2:19:02
  Speaker 1: I expect tens out of tense from Edwin Norton, Giuseppe
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 1: andrews Man. Well, Giuseppe only eight. So this was there
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 1: was wasn't enough? Hey man, Yeah, you need some classic
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 1: but but like above and beyond performances of it, because
• 2:19:24
  Speaker 1: like even soupe Lee is a guy who also kind
• 2:19:27
  Speaker 1: of like because of his weight, only got to be
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 1: a certain kind of person in movies, and like that
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 1: dude can fucking carry a performance. And and for Usa
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 1: in the craft, like you can't like that kind of
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 1: talent wasted, wasted, I know, likes so unfortunate that she's like,
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 1: doesn't get Tilly also, Jennifer Tilly also had that I
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 1: rewatched Bound recently. Bound did you go? I didn't? I saw,
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 1: I saw it. We should definitely do that good to
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 1: talk about cipher, dude, that that entire movie is just
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 1: anyway got criterion. The point. The point is is that
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 1: people like super le, people like uh, Ferusa got to
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 1: shine in movies like this, and never got the gratitude
• 2:20:23
  Speaker 1: that they deserved of the nineties. Also, what's her name?
• 2:20:27
  Speaker 1: It was also that nineties chick who was in Doom Generation,
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 1: Fuck Bound and Doom Generation or my early as the
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 1: jerking of oh yeah, Doom Generation and Bound. We were
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 1: definitely for that material. Anyway, following say oh, I was
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 1: gonna say I forget her name now Rose McGowan. Rose
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 1: McGowan also didn't get enough enough attention at the right
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 1: time and now she's a lunatic. But whatever. You know,
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 1: there were these people in the in the nineties that
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 1: like aged out of the indie scene without getting the
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 1: the you know, the like oh, like we rediscovered these
• 2:21:23
  Speaker 1: people in the twenty twenties and we get to make
• 2:21:25
  Speaker 1: movies about them. Instead they have to be like fucking
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 1: lunatic TikTokers and influencers where it's like, oh, you did
• 2:21:33
  Speaker 1: Rose McGowan, Did you know that Hillary Clinton actually hired
• 2:21:38
  Speaker 1: Alexander Payne to rape me? And it's like shit like
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 1: that where it's like, whoa dude, you're a lunatic now,
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 1: and it's like, you know, it sucks, but like, you know,
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 1: we still have the nineties. We still like that That's
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 1: what's what's great is that we can have the medium still.
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 1: We can watch them still.
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 2: Dude, And it's such a such a great time, so
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 2: well characterized by movies like this, like this, what like
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 2: the last couple of movies we've done have all been
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 2: like late nineties movies. What like what an interesting era
• 2:22:11
  Speaker 2: of movie making? What an interesting era of like leading actors?
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 2: Like just such a such a cool, such a cool time.
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad we're getting to talk about. Yeah, totally
• 2:22:24
  Speaker 1: see you next week. Yeah. Joined us on fucking Patreon,
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 1: at more thirsty on Twitter, at Thirsty for more on
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 1: Thirsty for more percents on Instagram, and guys, Patreon, you
• 2:22:38
  Speaker 1: should you should become patrons because support what we do.
• 2:22:42
  Speaker 1: You know, like we we work hard at this. We've
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 1: like limited production a little bit and uh yeah, like
• 2:22:50
  Speaker 1: we feel like, you know, we're doing a little bit
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 1: more behind the paywall, you know, just for the patriots.
• 2:22:59
  Speaker 1: We we love doing the show. We love doing it
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 1: for our friends. And thank you guys for listening. We'll
• 2:23:05
  Speaker 1: see us soon for more. H m hmmmm