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Transcript

Jesus is God · The Rhett Palmer Show

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: He is the great I am.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: His first friend was Abraham.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: Surely said to Abraham, I am that I am Hallelujah.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: The question, the question today is, was Jesus God?
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to be uh studying this with biblical scholar, historian Mike Bagby, who's down at uh he's a missionary, been a missionary for over 40 years.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: He and his wife, four children.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you're down on an island in South, is it South America?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: In the Western Caribbean.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_05: Western Caribbean, and it's called Utilla, U T-I-L-A.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_05: This is an island that was a former British colony in the 1800s.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_05: Now it's part of Honduras.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_05: And Utilla is a place where a lot of people come for scuba diving and free diving.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_05: And we started a cafe here in 2011.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_05: In fact, tomorrow we're having our 15th anniversary party celebrating 15 years.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_05: And uh it's just we just meet such interesting people.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_05: Like this morning on my way, um after we had our opening prayer, two French people walked in, and I asked them uh where they're uh where they're from, and they said, Well, we live in Mexico.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, he's a chef, they do private catering events, and uh just very interesting people, had a lot of fun with them this morning.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_05: Well, yeah, just uh very international crowd comes to this island for scuba diving, and we're trying to reach out and uh just provide them with good hospitality, good coffee, and good food, and good conversation.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, tell them I'll be coming down in my private jet later today for the celebration, and I'd like some Dover Soul with Burblanc on it, please.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So uh by the way, we don't we don't ask for cups of coffee, but we ask you to buy our coffee.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Go to cup cup of friendship.com and purchase our cookie, which is harvested on the high, high mountains, which gives it more oxidization.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is that correct?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or what does it do?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: It does something.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: It does something.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Michael thinks it's good and you need to buy it.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_05: Wait, wait, wait.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_05: Let me uh read.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_05: I gotta I gotta get something going here.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_05: Wait, let's see.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_04: How about that, huh?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_04: Couldn't hear it.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_04: You got the bell?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's the bell, okay?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_04: Couldn't hear it over on this side, okay?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_04: Nope.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_04: Nope.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Can't hear the bell?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that weird?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: We can hear your voice, but not that.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, we gotta get started here.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: One thing I have I have something I have something against these podcasts.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was listening to a podcast yesterday, and they ramble on about a bunch of junk and get into the heart of this.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Was Jesus God?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: We need to know, Michael.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_05: Rhett, uh, when coffee is grown uh above uh maybe 3,500 to 4,000 feet in the tropics, yeah, it has a longer growing season than coffee that's grown down at say 2,000 feet.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_05: The result of that, there's more fats and proteins in that little seed inside that coffee fruit, which means it's a much denser bean, a much heavier bean.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_05: And for us roasters, that gives us more to work with to actually bring out the flavor.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_05: So that's what it's all about.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_05: So high altitude means more flavor, more flavor in the coffee.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they're gonna find out one day that people that bought Cup of Friendship are living an extraordinary extra 60 years to 170 years of age, and they found it because the antioxidants are so strong in that coffee, and uh you'll be really blessed for supporting us.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_05: Well, uh the reality is uh studies have shown that if you drink two cups of coffee before noontime, your chance of dying that day is 70% less than a person who doesn't.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_05: That's true.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Statistics, you know.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: All right, so what today we're gonna be discussing in our Bibles.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Grab your Bibles, ladies and gentlemen, if you have a Bible, and we're gonna be discussing was Jesus God.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of people contest this.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: He ticked off a lot of Jewish people, the Pharisees, the Sadducees.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, it's a what an abomination to say that he's one with the Father.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_05: Well, the uh then of course it comes down to uh the uh this thing we call Christianity, this world movement that took off uh in the first century, yeah.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_05: Uh is growing and it's uh spread to every continent in the world, and it seems to be growing uh faster at a rate that's uh astounding.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_05: And yet it all started from a man from Nazareth born in Bethlehem, who was an incredible teacher.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_05: In fact, the gospels record oftentimes people who, after listening to him, said, We've never heard anything like this.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_05: Even when the Sadducees, when the uh temple authorities sent guards to arrest him one time, the guards came back and said, We couldn't arrest this guy.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_05: He's we've never heard anything like this.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_05: So he's an amazing character.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_05: He's he's uh someone who does uh casting out demons, he heals uh people, he's uh an extraordinary uh uh character, says things that are very counterintuitive, and then he gets publicly executed, and three days later he's eating fish with his friends, and for the next uh 40 days he's seen by over 500 people.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_05: And uh so now thus begins a movement, this movement of the kingdom of God.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_05: But there's been many skeptics along the way, and back in 2000 I think, 14, a professor from the University of North Carolina named Bart Erdman wrote a book called When Jesus Became God.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_05: And Bart's thesis is Jesus never claimed to be God, he never uh claimed to be uh anything more than just a uh uh a builder that spoke God's words uh from Nazareth.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_05: So uh Bart sort of ignited a firestorm of conversation and critique over his thesis because he said Jesus never said these things about himself, those were added later by his disciples.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_05: They kind of came up with the idea, let's make Jesus out to be the Son of God.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_05: So uh I just thought in this world today that we are uh trying to come to grips with life.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_05: Both you and I, Brett, have had an experience with God, and we are firm believers that Jesus, in fact, was God in the flesh, came to earth, uh died for our uh sins on the cross, and that he um is in fact the third person of the Trinity, uh the second person of the Trinity.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_05: So I just thought it would be really good for uh anybody who might be listening today to first of all have a firm conviction that these are things that Jesus claimed about himself, that his disciples, eyewitnesses, wrote these things down in the Gospels, and that in fact Jesus proved all of these things to be true, because when the Romans nail you to a cross in a public place and people are walking by and see you, and when a Roman soldier, uh as the sun is going down, comes and puts a spear through your chest and outflows blood and water, you are dead.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_05: You are not swooning, you are dead.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_05: Why is blood and water indicative of true death?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_05: Well, uh, if you uh spear a person in the heart and you hit his heart, there's a sack around the heart called the pericardium that is filled with a clear fluid.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_05: Oh.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_05: And so a Roman soldier was trained to hit uh lethal points in a body.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_05: So when the Romans came to take the convicted crucified prisoners down off the cross, they broke the legs of two of them.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_05: And and when you're hanging on a cross, and the only way you can exhale is to push yourself up and take the weight off of your shoulders, which have become the muscles have become very uh sore and distended, and you're literally uh the death on a cross is death by asphyxiation.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_05: You can't breathe.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_05: You're hanging there, and your lungs are fully extended, and you cannot physically exhale.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_05: The only way you can exhale is push yourself up uh and take the weight off of your shoulders and arms, but there's a nail uh uh uh between your feet nailing you to the uh that cross.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_05: Very, very painful.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_05: So the whole crucifixion is a up and down motion of in other words, in other words, he suffocated.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_05: So you're you're uh you're standing, taking a breath, you're slumping, standing, slumping, standing, slumping.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_05: And finally, if you're if the Romans have mercy, they come and they take a baseball bat uh-sized item called a crufiligum, and they crack you across the shins and literally break your fibia and tibia, and uh you can no longer push yourself up and you quickly die.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_05: So the gospels record that Jesus uh was already dead, and the soldier, to make sure he was dead, took a spear and rammed it into his chest cavity, outflowed blood and water.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: I never realized till now that it was, I thought it was just in the chest and the lung, but you're saying it went right into that sack around the heart.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: So actually, uh Jesus was speared through the heart, but it fulfilled the prophecy that said in uh in uh Isaiah, right?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: That he would come, but uh that none of his bones would be broken when he when they uh crucified the visiting Messiah.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_05: Right, right, right.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_05: No bones were broken.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_05: So uh so much of this uh that happened in the crucifixion, yeah, and then you know, this is uh they're in the body is placed in the tomb.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_05: Uh it's it's coming to sundown on Passover Friday.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_05: Uh shabbath day is the next day, and then early Sunday morning, uh, as uh the sun's coming up, Mary and others go to the tomb and they're bringing some uh oils and uh uh ointments and spices, which are designed to cause the flesh to decay quicker.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_05: And so uh they're coming and the tomb is uh is open, they look in, there's nobody, and then Mary's looking around, she sees who she thinks is the gardener, it's actually Jesus, and Jesus says, I'm alive, go and tell my disciples.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_04: So there's a lot of going on there.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_04: So was Jesus God in the flesh?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_05: Did he claim to be God in the flesh?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_05: And I think uh if you read the Bible and you try to get yourself in the room and understanding the the language and the culture and especially the prophecies, uh Jesus comes across as very clearly uh communicating to his audience that he is the Messiah that the uh Old Testament prophets spoke about, and that he is here for a specific mission.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_05: So an extraordinary thing happens that John records in chapter six is that Jesus is on probably the north northeast side of the lake.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_05: He's probably in that area just on the northeast corner.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_05: People are there listening to his teaching.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_05: It's time for them to go eat something, and they're they're really not close to any place that they can actually buy food.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_05: So Jesus uh takes, finds a man, a young boy who has five barley loaves and two fish, and he tells them to sit down, and he breaks the bread, and uh the disciples pass it out, and an extraordinary miracle happened that over 5,000 people were fed, and that they gathered up the remains, and there were 12 baskets with fragments from the five barley loaves, which were left over, and the people saw that he had indeed performed an incredible sign.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, so they're going back to Capernaum, a storm comes up, Jesus uh is already uh um walking along the shore, and he actually walks out on water because his disciples are really rowing hard against the wind, and he steps into the boat, and immediately the boat arrives at the land where they're going, which is another miracle, but suddenly it just arrived.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_05: And then people come and they're looking for Jesus because they're hungry again.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_05: And Jesus says this to them this is in verse 26 of chapter six.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_05: He said, I say to you, you seek me not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_05: Okay?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_05: He says, Don't work for the food which perishes, but work for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man shall give you, for on him the Father, even God, has set his seal.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_05: Are you familiar, Rhett, with the Son of Man um um image from Daniel chapter seven?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_05: No.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_05: Well, this is a prophecy and a vision that Daniel saw, and it's um well, let me just read it to you.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_05: Daniel see in a vision, it's chapter seven.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_05: I kept looking until the thrones were set up, and the ancient of days took his seat.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_05: This is Yahweh.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_05: His vesture was like white snow, the hair on his head like pure wool, his throne was ablaze with flames, wheels were uh bur its wheels were burning fire, and a fire, river fire was flowing and coming out before him.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_05: Thousands upon thousands were attending him, myriads and myriads were standing before him, the court set, the books were open.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Let me ask you, hold on, what about the what about those wheels?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, because I don't understand what those wheels are, because you know, one time uh years and years ago, this is almost 35, 40 years ago, I was uh the guest speaker at a woman's aglow.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: And as I was singing songs, I had this before I spoke, I had this vision of a great big wheel, it was right suspended in the room, and it had flames at different junctures of it.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I never understood, and then I found a Johnny Cash wrote some sort of a song about and the wheel within the wheel or whatever.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Well, what is what is this wheel thing?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh I really want to know.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_05: Well, this is not our topic for today, Rhett.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_05: This is uh uh question we'll discuss later on.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_05: Because Daniel continues with the vision, and I kept looking in the night vision, and behold, the crowds with the clouds of heaven.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_05: One like a son of man was coming, and he came up to the ancient of days and was presented before him, and to him was given dominion, glory, and a kingdom, all the that all the people, nations, and men of every language might serve him.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_05: His dominion is an everlasting dominion which will not pass away.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_05: So Jesus is referring to himself as this character that Daniel saw in the vision, the son of man.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and so he's constantly referring to himself.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_05: Remember the scene where uh four friends bring a paralyzed man on a stretcher and they bring him to Peter's house and they let him down through the roof.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and Jesus looks at their sees their faith, he goes to the paralyzed man and he says, Your sins are forgiven.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_05: And the Pharisees are standing there and they're thinking, Who but God can forgive sins?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_05: Jesus knows what they're thinking, and he turns to them and he says, Why are you thinking this?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_05: Which is easier to say, your sins are forgiven, or get up and walk.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_05: But I want to show you that the son of man has the authority to forgive sins, and turning to the paralyzed man, he says, Get up, pick up your pallet and walk.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_05: So he's called the son of man.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_05: And the man picks up the pallet, uh, suddenly stands up, and there's been a number of uh movies.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_05: Um Jesus of Nazareth, the years ago, did a great scene of this.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_05: In The Chosen, they did an incredible scene of this, and the man gets up and walks away.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_05: So Jesus is proclaiming that he is the Son of Man.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_05: Now, any Jew who is hearing this come out of Jesus' lips knows exactly what he's saying.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_05: I am the one Daniel saw in the vision, where the ancient of days gives a kingdom and it gives dominion, and every nation will bow and serve him, and his rule will last forever.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_05: Jesus says, I am that character.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_05: Whoa! And to the Pharisees, in this the uh this time where the uh he heals this man paralyzed, he says, the son of man has the authority to forgive sins.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_05: And of course, the Pharisees are correct, only God can forgive sins.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Is this where the Pharisees bring up Abraham?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus turns to them and says, Before Abraham was I'm well, we're gonna actually uh get to that here shortly.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_05: But this was a different so throughout his ministry, Jesus called himself the Son of Man, and he did miracles that only God could do.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_05: Now remember, Jesus has a mission.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_05: His mission is to die on the cross for forgiveness of our sins, but he has to be very careful how he gets to that point.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_05: Remember, his cousin, John the Baptist, decides to make a comment regarding uh Herod, who was with his brother's wife, and because John decided to make a public comment about that, he gets imprisoned and eventually he gets his head cut off.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_05: So Jesus is being very strategic in his words because he does not want to get arrested before the time.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_05: He knows there's a lot of things to do before his date with the cross.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_05: Okay?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_05: So after feeding the 5,000, uh Jesus is saying, You're coming to me not because uh I perform these uh this sign that shows who I am, you you're coming because you're hungry.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_05: He said, Don't work for the food that uh will go away the next day.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_05: Work for the food food that will remain, and this is belief in me as the Messiah.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_05: Because verse uh 39, 28 says, They said to him, What shall we do that we may work the works of God?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_05: And Jesus said, This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I know that experience because I used to do a live show in Sebastian, Florida on Saturdays, and all these people would just show up for the donuts and the coffee.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't really there for my show, I don't think.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: We'd have 130 people there in the audience.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: They were there for and ironically, today we're we have first time we have Vinny Bag of Donuts, who's actually uh producing the show.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: So good morning to Vinny Bag of Donuts.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_05: Jesus goes on to say um I am the bread of life, and he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_05: But I say to you, you have seen me and yet you do not believe.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_05: All the Father gives me shall come to me.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_05: For I've come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_05: And this is the will of him who sent me, that all that he has given me, I shall lose nothing but raise it up on the last day.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_05: For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in him may have eternal life.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_05: And I myself will raise him up on the last day.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_05: Now, can you hear these words and not think that Jesus is making some pretty audacious claims as to who he is?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_05: Either he's a lunatic or he is the Messiah.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_05: Well, he could be a liar too.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_05: This is uh Josh McDowell's uh famous trilemma.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_05: Uh lunatic, liar, or lord.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_05: When you come to consider Jesus, those are your only three possibilities.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: But his the his his the healing power demonstrates uh his power and goodness.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_05: Well, that's true, Rett, but I think his resurrection uh really uh really brings it home, okay?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: And he was seen by over 500 people after the resurrection, and even uh uh some historians have proclaimed that, you know, all these people that said that.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and the disciples died, most of them died, being crucified or killed or burned up or whatever they did, because they would not refute, they would not, um they would not uh what's the word?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, they wouldn't rescind on their belief in Jesus as Lord.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_05: Well, uh the next place that uh Jesus becomes very um uh clear about his identity is when during the uh temple celebrations, there's one particular event where they have four golden lamps that are uh torches that are lighting up the uh temple at night, and there's uh ceremonies that are going on, and Psalms 132 refers to this.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um and Jesus, while he's with them during this celebration, he says, I am the light of the world, and he who follows me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_05: Now, this is going on during a temple celebration with four big golden torches, lampstands.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_05: And Jesus is saying, I am this person, okay?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_05: The Pharisees were saying, and you bear witness of yourself, your witness is not true.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_05: He knows what the Pharisees know what he's saying, and Jesus says, even if I bear witness of myself, my witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I'm going, but you don't know where I came from, because you judge people according to the flesh.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, I don't uh even I when I judge, my judgment is true, and I'm not alone in it.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_05: It's comes from my father.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_05: Okay?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_05: And then he goes on to say, You are from below, I am from above, you are of this world, I am not of this world.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_05: That's verse 23.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_05: And he says, Therefore, I say to you that you shall die in your sins unless you believe that I am He.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_05: Now they're all talking about the Messiah.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_05: Okay?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_05: For I have many things to speak to judge concerning you, and he who sent me is true, and the things, excuse me, I heard from him, these are the things that I speak.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_05: They did not realize he was speaking to them about his father.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_05: And Jesus said, When you see that when you lift up the Son of Man, you will know that I am he.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_05: I do nothing on my own authority.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you can understand, you can understand these Pharisees.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: I remember when I was 14 years of age, I was a seeker, and I read autobiography of a yogi.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: When I was 16, I went to Boston, got inducted into trans and dental meditation, and I read all these things on Eastern religion.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: And when somebody talked about Jesus, I said, Ah, you know, phooy, I don't believe in Jesus.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: He's not gonna God isn't gonna come as a man.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, you know, he would be glorious and light, and you know, you the man's idea.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: And here Jesus comes in the great, humble, humbly.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um here is your king, humbly riding on a mule, right?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: He had humility and came uh uh, you know, not wearing uh fancy watches or or suits and not being had never had a uh degree, uh, never did the things that most humans uh uh esteem.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: And uh came it's just it's amazing, it's so inverted that they couldn't get it.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, certainly the the son of man could not be standing right before them, you know.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_05: Well, Jesus goes on to say, um, and if you abide in my word, then you are truly disciples of mine, and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_05: Now, this is the famous quote, uh, actually, the junior high school that I went to in Reynoldsburg, Ohio.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, add this chiseled in the uh cement or the uh over the door of the entrance to the school, it said, You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, I did not know that this was just the second part of a uh statement of Jesus, because the criteria for knowing the truth and being set free is being a disciple of him.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_05: If you abide in my word, then you are truly my disciples.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_05: If you abide in my word, you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, as opposed to exalting truth that some man makes up or this is he is the way, the truth, and the life.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, and so the the response of the Pharisees was an incredible response.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_05: Now imagine they're in the temple.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they're uh they're going through this ceremony with the the the big golden uh lampstands, and right on the uh northwest side of the temple is the Antonia Fortress.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_05: It was built and named after uh uh Mark Anthony, and it houses the Russian garrison who built it there with it with four towers that can look down upon the temple, and they can always uh see what's going on.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_05: And if there's any riot, they will come in to immediately stop the riot.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_05: All right, and so in that context, with the towers of the Atonia fortress looming over them, they respond, we are Abraham's offspring and have never been enslaved to anyone.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_05: How is it that you say you shall become free?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_05: What a statement with the Roman soldiers looking over your shoulder.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_05: We're not enslaved to anyone.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, disregard those Roman soldiers that are on the parapets looking down on us now.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_05: We're who are why is it you say we're free?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but we can be free.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_05: And Jesus says, I say everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, and then he goes on to say, if you were Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, because you're seeking to kill me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God, this Abraham did not do.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_05: And you are doing the deeds of your father.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_05: They said to him, We are born, we were not born of fornication, we have one father, even God.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_05: Now, this is a snide remark referring to the rumors of Jesus' birth, that Mary got pregnant by the Holy Spirit.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_05: This was a word that was going around.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_05: That was ridiculous, that Mary actually was uh fornicating with somebody else before she married Joseph.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_05: So they're laying an accusation against him.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_05: We're and we're not born of fornication, okay?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_05: But we have one father, okay?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_05: And Jesus says, if God were your father, you would love me.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_05: Um you're not of your you are of your father, the devil, and you want to do the things, the desires of your father.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_05: He was a murderer from the beginning, does not stand in the truth, because there's no truth in him.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_05: He's the father of lies, okay.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_05: And now the conversation continues, and they say, We know you now have a demon.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_04: Excuse me.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_05: Abraham died in the prophets, but you say, anyone who keeps my word, he shall never taste death.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_05: Surely you're not greater than our father Abraham, who died.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_05: The prophets died too.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_05: Whom do you make yourself out to be?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_05: And Jesus says, Truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am therefore they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_05: Okay?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_05: Your father Abraham this is what Jesus said.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_05: I'm sorry, I skipped past this one.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_05: If I glory myself, my glory is nothing.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_05: It is my father who glorifies me.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_05: And you say, He is our God.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_05: And you have not come to know him, but I know him.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_05: And if I say I do not know him, I shall be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_05: Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_05: He saw it and was glad.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_05: The Jews therefore said to him, You're not yet 50 years old, and you have seen Abraham.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_05: And Jesus said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, these you know, these movies are very popular now about time travel.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: So really, Jesus, who is the God of the universe, can go in and out of time wherever he pleases.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, so it's very incredulous for them to believe.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, what do you mean you met?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so Abraham, of course, met the Son of Man in the desert and uh believed believed him when he told him this, and it was accounted to him as his faith was accounted to him as righteousness.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: So he met Jesus way back when.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, there's there's so many mentions of uh the angel coming and encountering these old testament characters, and you'll notice as you're reading the text that suddenly the uh angel uh that's speaking is now uh being referred to as the Lord, the Lord, you know.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_05: Um it's almost as Jesus is the pre-in it's his pre-incarnation appearance.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_05: Jesus is constantly appearing in history, and uh he's speaking to these old testament characters, and so Jesus said, Before Abraham was born, I am, and that phrase, I am, is a very powerful one.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_05: When Moses was standing in front of the burning bush, and this is Exodus chapter 3, and God says, I want you to go back and free the slaves, the Hebrew slaves, and Moses is like, Well, who shall I tell them sent me?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_05: And God's response is tell them I am who I am, who I always will be, sent you.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_05: That's the uh the definition of Yahweh's name.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yahweh is describing himself as the everlasting one, the one that always is and always will be.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_05: I am that I am that I am, and Jesus now uses that name to describe himself, and he they pick up stones to stone him, okay, because he's now using a divine name to describe himself.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_05: So in the context of first century Jerusalem, there is no doubt that Jesus is claiming to be God, and then it goes gets even uh more so here in John chapter 10.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hold on, hold on.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: How could that guy write that book when he knows that Jesus said, Before Abraham was I am, for I knew Abraham?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_05: Well, this is uh uh what I would I I've always wanted to investigate Bart uh Erdman's thesis, but I didn't really want to waste my time in nonsense.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, um, I know there's a been a movement that really started in the 17 and 1800s, where European quote scholars started questioning the veracity of the scriptures.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_05: A guy named uh Julius Wellhausen uh wrote a book in the uh early uh 1800s, where he claimed that uh Moses did not write the Hebrew scriptures, that it was actually four different authors that wrote over a period of about uh 1200 years.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_05: And you can tell the different authors by the names that they use for God.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_05: Some call him uh Jehovah, the J, some call him Elohim, the E.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_05: Then there's the uh later uh writer of Deuteronomy uh who uh wasn't Moses, and uh he's writing uh in a different style.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_05: This is all stylistic differences that he is uh claiming, and this his conclusion is because of that, we Moses did not write the first five books of the Bible.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_05: This is called the higher criticism of the Bible.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I went to Bible, I went to a Bible school this summer with scholars up in Pennsylvania at the uh doesn't really matter what what denomination, but anyway, and uh, you know, even this scholar who was teaching, and he had humility, he was not puffed up.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: This was a nice 37 years of age, married, three kids.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, uh, but he did, he said scholars always want to contest, even at the because it first of all they want to use that brain because they can't shut it down, and then it gives them some sort of validation to contest and uh and and and and aggravate one another so they can go back and forth.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_05: And well, uh well, this guy, Julius Wellhausen, uh, he didn't think that writing uh was uh widespread in the second millennium BC.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_05: Of course, when we found the Elbleth tablets that are from the third millennia BC, uh it was very obvious people were writing.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_05: So Wellhausen's whole supposition for his uh thesis uh starts to crumble when you actually look at the archaeological evidence.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_05: But he had an incredible influence, and uh a guy named Christian Bauer took Wellhausen's uh thinking and applied it to the Christian scriptures, and Bauer said that uh that, for example, there's not one historical aspect uh about the book of John, nor does John claim it to be.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_05: There's no uh historical validation that Paul didn't write all of his letters.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_05: In fact, uh most of Paul's letters were written in the second century, not by Paul himself.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_05: Uh there are um uh there was a preceding document that Mark and Luke and uh Matthew all took their information from.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_05: So basically they came up with these theories uh that the Bible was not a historical document, that the supposed writers uh didn't write it.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_05: And they uh they that became uh very famous in a school in Terbigen in Germany, and this was a super influential theological school that influenced many European as well as American pastors.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_05: In fact, if you were a young, smart guy from Yale or Harvard and you wanted to uh go to the best theology school in uh the world, you would go to some German university.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_05: And what you came back with was a jaundice view of the historical nature of the scriptures.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, of course, a man wants to exalt his intellect above God, and a lot of people worship their intellect.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is why it says uh, you know, the mind of man is enmity with the spirit of Christ.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_05: So I think Bart Erdman is uh probably following in the footsteps.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_05: Remember, the enemy is out there to try to deceive us.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_05: And uh higher criticism, which is what this the stream of thought about the Bible uh puts standards on the Bible, as uh Will Durant said in his book, uh volume uh Caesar and Christ, higher criticism puts standards that would cause even a thousand uh worthies like uh David's writings, like Herodotus, like Hammurabi, would uh not be considered to be valid history.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_05: The reality is, as a historian, I was trained to look at three different aspects of an ancient document.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_05: First is manuscripts.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_05: How many manuscripts do we have of this document?
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_05: And Julius Caesar wrote a book called The Gaelic Wars.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_05: He wrote it in about probably 50 BC, maybe 56 BC.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_05: It was about his campaigns up in the part of France and Germany, the Gauls.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_05: We have 10 copies of that.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_05: And uh the copy that is the oldest is probably 600 years after Julius Caesar wrote it, the only surviving copy.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_05: But we considered uh Julius Caesar's uh Gaelic War to be an authentic historical document.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_05: Now, let me give you a uh comparison with the uh Bible.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_05: There are over 26,000 manuscripts and fragments of manuscripts of the Christian scriptures, and so manuscript evidence.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_05: The uh the earliest one we have is the the John Ryland uh text, which has uh been dated about 125 A.D., which is a text of the book of John, uh written probably within 30 years of John's death, of him writing the book.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_05: So we have a very close copy.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_05: We have many copies, and so historically, uh manuscript evidence for the Bible is very solid.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_05: And when the Dead Sea scrolls were discovered by Mohammed Deeb in 1947 in a place down in Qumran by the Dead Sea, these were authenticated to be second century BC documents, and we have the entire book of Isaiah along with other uh books of the Hebrew scriptures, and they are pretty much word for word for what we're holding in our hands today.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_05: So manuscript evidence is huge when it comes to the Bible.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_05: The second was internal evidence.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_05: Does the writer say in chapter one he did something on a particular day, but in chapter three he contradicts himself and says, no, it was on another day.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_05: Uh many people say the Bible is full of contradictions.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, for example, Matthew says there are two beggars uh outside of Jericho that are calling out to Jesus.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_05: Mark says there's only one, and he gives us his name, Timaeus, son of uh Bartimias.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, Bartimaeus we call him, but it's Bartimius, son of Timaeus.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_05: Now, is that a contradiction?
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_05: No, I think just Mark wants us to know there was one and we know his name because Bartimaeus was known in the Christian uh community in the first century because Mark is using his name.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, so I think uh the contradictions disappear when you look at uh language uh translations that are closer to the original Greek, and you understand this partial information thing that the authors of the Bible do.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_05: Finally, there's external evidence, which are what are the other sources that will either confirm or deny the information in this document.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_05: And I gotta tell you, Rhett, when archaeology came to the scene in the early 1900s and the archaeologists started digging up cities in Asia and in the Middle East, we discovered things that confirm the historical record.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_05: The most prominent uh archaeologist, William Albright of the 20th century, who was involved in many digs, said there is no archaeological.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_05: Evidence that we've discovered that contradicts the Bible, in fact, it reinforces our historical validity of the of the Bible itself.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_05: And I could go on and on and on and on with this.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_05: In fact, on our seekthelm.com site on our biblical studies page, uh, I have I uh speak to speak about this uh ad nauseum.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_05: So I don't know where Bart Erdman got off the path.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_05: He's a graduate of Wheaton College, but somewhere along the line, he doubted the historical validity of the Bible, and it caused him to question uh the scriptures, and he came to the conclusion that others had inserted lines and paragraphs in the scriptures later that Jesus never claimed, but the disciples somehow wanted to make that claim for him, and Bart, I think that's just um what's the word I want to use?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_05: Ludicrous.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_05: Uh because the resurrection of Jesus is the hinge on which Christianity turned.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_05: All of the disciples went to their deaths proclaiming that they had seen the risen Lord.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_05: You don't start a world movement that continues for 2,000 years and spreads to every continent on earth and has millions and millions more adherents every year, if it's a false thing.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_05: You quoted uh uh recently when we were talking, uh Gamaliel in the book of Acts, who said, Hey Peter and John, if they're if they're saying that Jesus is the Messiah, be careful.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_05: You might be speaking against God.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_05: Do you remember when you said that?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_05: That if it is, if this is nothing, this movement will die out.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_05: And he quotes uh Gamaliel quotes a couple of guys, Thutius, and and uh somebody else, they uh claim to be the Messiah, but they were killed, and now nobody even talks about them.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_05: That's what's gonna happen if uh Peter and John, if what they're saying is not true.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, but he also says, but if if it is, there's nothing we can do to stop it.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing we can do to stop it.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: So let's finish up here with He was a wise Pharisee.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: Was he a Pharisee?
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_05: He was a very wise uh Pharisee.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_05: I hope he came to know the Lord.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_05: Uh John chapter 10.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_05: At that time, the feast of dedication took place in Jerusalem.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_05: It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_05: The Jews therefore gathered around him and kept saying, How long will you keep us in suspense?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_05: If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_05: Have I not told you this?
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_05: I've not told you this.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_05: Jesus said, I told you, and you do not believe.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_05: The works that I do in my Father's name, these bear witness of me.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_05: But you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_05: My sheep hear my voice, I know them, and they follow me.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_05: I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one can snatch them out of my hand.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_05: My father who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of my father's hand.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now he's not just talking about, because there's other places where people say, Oh, he was only talking about the disciples there, but here he's talking about you and me are the lambs, the regular, the regular dudes.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_05: Verse 30.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_05: I and the father are one.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_05: The Jews took up stones again to stone him.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_05: Jesus answered and said, I showed you many good works from the Father, for which of them are you stoning me?
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_05: The Jews answered him, For a good work we do not stone you, but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself out to be God.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_05: Okay?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_05: Now, if that is not a clear definitive claim that I am the second person of the Trinity, God in the human body, I don't know what is, Rhett.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think though, do you think though Jesus understood that these guys were all caught up in their intellect and uh their own uh what they you know they idolize their own thinking and will would ultimately have mercy on these guys?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, imagine okay, you and I have the benefit of being alive in this age.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_05: But if we were at the time, yeah, that's what I I'm trying to always get in the audience.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_05: I'm trying to be part of the crowd that's listening to him.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but I see these miracles, yeah, I hear the teaching.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_05: I uh I am amazed, I am amazed at I'm amazed again and again and again at this man.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, and I hear him making these claims, and I'm going, well, you know, I read the prophet Isaiah, I've read the prophet Micah, I've read the prophet Zachariah, they're all talking about this character that's coming.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_05: In fact, he's going to be riding in Jerusalem on a donkey, and he wrote in on a donkey.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, now I'm putting two plus two plus two together, and I'm coming up with six.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, I'm putting all of these events together.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_05: See, this is exactly what God wants us to do.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_05: He does not want to force us to do anything, but he wants us to come to our conclusions based on the evidence that we see.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_05: And so I have a chance as standing in first century Jerusalem of observing these things and deciding is what he's speaking to be the truth or not?
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_05: Well, many of these priests write became followers of Jesus.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_05: And many of the Pharisees became followers of Jesus.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_05: Because remember when Jesus said it is finished and gave up his spirit?
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_05: What happened in the temple?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_05: The curtain that separated the holies of holies from the inner court was split from top to bottom.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_05: Now, this is a probably a 30-foot long curtain.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_05: It's probably all the stuff I've read about it, it's probably woven and it's maybe a foot thick.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_05: This is a heavy barrier.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: But only the priest could only the priest could go into the holy of holies.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: Only the priests.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: But now Jesus becomes the propitiation of our sins, and we have the same authority as those priests and can enter into the Holy of Holies.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_05: How do you think if you and I were a priest and we're in the temple and suddenly we see this curtain just ripped from top to bottom, not bottom to top, it's coming down from the top.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_05: And would that cause us to maybe consider the claims of Jesus?
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_05: And then three days later, we hear this rumor that he's arisen because the chief priest sends guards over to look at the tomb and then tries to bribe them to lie that the uh disciples stole the body.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_05: So there's a conspiracy that comes up immediately.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, hold on, I want to interrupt you here.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: I just got this, never thought of this before.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: What do you see in a lot of the movies?
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: The Jews will tear a piece of cloth, yeah, you know, for a for death or for and and the here he tears the cloth.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: There's something in that we need to investigate.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: Why do Jews tear a cloth off of their uh clothing?
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_05: I they do it when they hear blasphemy, they tear, they rend their garments, you know.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_05: They just, I can't stand what you just said.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_05: That's what the high priest did when Jesus said, Yes, I am he.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_05: So uh so imagine we're in the crowd, and all of this is going on, and then we see Jesus being crucified, and we're so disappointed as his disciples were that he didn't use his magical powers to defend himself.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_05: Because guess what, Rhett?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_05: His disciples are just like us.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Matt magic magic, by the way, is an abomination to God.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: I hate that word.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_05: Well, it seems magical, it would seem magical to me.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_05: Magic is something that I can't explain, it's uh some supernatural thing, okay?
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_05: Or it's a sleight of hand.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's deceit.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_05: That's yeah, the magic that's deceit.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_05: But uh C.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_05: S.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_05: Lewis took the magic uh term and applied it to this thing that happened to Aslam when he gave himself up as the sacrifice, uh, in the line The Witch in the Road Wardrobe, uh C.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_05: S.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_05: Lewis refers to this as the ancient magic.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_05: Uh so there is some supernatural thing about it.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_05: But Red, if you and I were in first century uh Judea, uh Samaria, uh Galilee, and we saw this miracle worker, this profound guy, we heard about his crucifixion, we would be super disappointed, but we'd be so excited to hear that he resurrected and that so many of our friends saw him.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_05: We might not have seen him, but imagine if we were one of the 500 that saw him.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_05: And like Thomas, we doubted it, but we saw the then the holes in his wrist and his feet from the nails.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: And look at you knew you knew blind Bartimaeus, and now you say now blind Bartimaeus is no longer blind, he sees uh, you know, uh the lady with the issue of blood and all these things.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah, there's I mean, there's the the the evidence, it gets all of us to a point where we go, Yes, I believe, yes, I believe you are who you say you are, Jesus.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_05: Now, Rhett, that happened to you at some point, that happened to me on a beach just uh north of Lahaina, Waikouli uh park, just north of Lahaina, one day after work at What's the Scoop in 1981, where I had all the evidence came together.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_05: And I was profoundly impacted with a conviction that Jesus is who he says he is.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_05: And this is something that God's agenda for each and every human that we would come to the conclusion on our own, based on the evidence and our experience that Jesus is Lord.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I came to the conclusion, and that that day I was praying and nothing was happening.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: Then finally I said, You're God, who am I to live without you?
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: You made me, you breathe life in me.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: Then I surrendered the rest of my life to him, and that's when the holiness of God entered me.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Whoa, you're real, you're real.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh also, I want to testify this.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: I want to testify.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lady, an older lady, who fell down and hurt her hip.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not going to go into the whole story, but we were at a Bible study the next week at somebody's house, and she the every people are praying for each other.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell you that I would not lie, but the Bible says, No, no liar shall enter the kingdom of God.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: She calls me across the room.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: She was an Italian lady, she's come over here, come over here.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: And she's got her arms up like this, and she says, put your hand already here.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I put it on her hip, and in her hip was this feeling going, and she goes, I'ma being healed, I'ma being healed, praising the Lord.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I felt it with my own hands.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: This buzzing going on, and her hip was healed.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_04: I've seen other things that no one would believe, but I tell you what, he's real.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_05: He is real.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_05: So um I just want our uh any of you that might be listening to just ponder this one for a moment.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_05: We're in a culture where there's a lot of people around us saying that Jesus never rose from the grave, he was just a confused rabbi, and that there is no basis to our belief.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_05: On the other hand, look at the historical uh uh lineage of Christianity, where as uh Rodney Stark in his book The Rise of Christianity points out, uh, that he thinks there was probably around 10,000 Christians in the Roman Empire at the end of the first century, but by the middle of the fourth century there were 33 million, constituting 53 percent of the population.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: Reminds you of that Pharisee who said, if this is real, there's nothing we can do to stop it.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_05: And remember that Paul had a problem in his ministry as he was going around to these uh Greco-Roman cities and planting churches, that he had a bunch of former Pharisees following him saying, Okay, Jesus is Lord, but you gotta obey the law.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_05: So there's evidence that many of the Pharisees became followers of Jesus, many of the priests became followers of Jesus.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that Paul, being a former Pharisee, had a trouble uh dropping some things that were pharisitical?
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, like saying that you know, women shouldn't speak in church or men should sit over here and women should sit over here.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it must have been very hard for Paul, who knew the letter of the law, yet later on he's saying the letter of the law causes death, the spirit of the law giveth life.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_05: And well, to answer your question, I think Paul had an extraordinary experience, and Paul needed an extraordinary experience.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_05: He said, I was taken up to the third heaven and I uh saw things I'm not permitted to speak.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_05: But he also said things to us like, Why are you contending among yourself?
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_05: Why can't you solve your disputes?
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_05: Don't you know that one day we will judge angels?
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_05: Well, no, I didn't know that, Paul.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_05: How do you know that?
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I was taken up to the third heaven, and it's gonna be us that's gonna be judging those fallen angels.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_01: You were not supposed to mention this, Paul.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm sure Paul had an extraordinary experience, Rett, that caused him to drop every uh facet of legalism.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_05: And that's why he was so intent on its grace by which you're saved.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_05: But at the same time, he knew that the law had its purpose.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_05: It was our signpost.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he signed, he signed death warrants for Christians to be killed prior to becoming a follower of Jesus.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: He's out there, you know, recklessly chasing these Christians, and all of a sudden God knocks him off his horse.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, here's this guy, sinner, a murderer, ostensibly, and he knocks him off the horse and says, Who are you?
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: I am Jesus of Nazareth.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: Why dost thou uh why do thou prosecute persecute me?
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_01: Or what was the words that Jesus used?
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: Persecute, yes.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, Now go into this town.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: You will not be able to see until you were to go to this town and see this man, and this man will be waiting for you.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_05: Well, it's such a humorous story because uh he suddenly uh the vo the Lord suddenly speaks to this guy, Ananias, who's in Damascus.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and he says, Ananias, I want you to go over to Strait Street.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_05: There's a man named Saul.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_05: He's praying to me right now.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_05: I want you to go over and pray for him.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_05: And Ananias says, But Lord, don't you know who this guy is?
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_05: He's coming here to arrest me and my friends.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_05: This guy is a bad dude.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_05: And God says to him, Ananias, yes, yes, I know these things.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_05: I am, after all, the God of this universe.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_05: I do know all of these things.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_05: But Ananias, go over and pray for him because I'm gonna show him how much he must suffer for me.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_05: And Ananias all of a sudden goes, Okay, suffering?
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_05: I'm in.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_05: I'll definitely go pray for the guy.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_05: Because he's caused so much suffering for me and my friends, and he's actually killed people in the name of God.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, my brothers and sisters.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, I will definitely go.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_05: I'm in.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_05: I will show him.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_05: I'll be part of your showing him how much he is going to suffer.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I just I I have to say that.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, here's this guy.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: His his his prayers to God went up as a memorial to him.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: So he had great favor with God as an anasis.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then God finally speaks to me.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: He goes, Oh no, he's hearing in audible voice.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, I can't do that.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: That guy's killing people.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what's the funny thing is?
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: I won't go into details, but I'm gonna go ahead and say it.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_01: I heard from God audibly, and he said something to me, I didn't accept till the next day.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when I hear an audible voice, I go, hmm, let me think about this.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we are just no wonder he doesn't, you know.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: Lately I prayed to God, you know.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was, oh, I'd like to see you, Jesus.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I tell him that, don't make an appearance to me because I never want you to be common to me.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: I always want to glory to the Lord Jesus.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'd love to see you.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to smile.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: Look at them, have him smile into my eyes someday, and maybe us laugh together.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's my greatest hope.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I don't ever want Jesus to become common.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean, here he speaks to me.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is red.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if I'm a liar, God strike me down, but I'm not a liar because no liar shall enter the kingdom of God, it is written, Jesus said.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll tell you what, I heard that voice, yet it took me 24 hours to go, uh, okay.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_05: Well, we're just like those hard-headed disciples, you know.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_05: Jesus told them over and over again, you know, I'm gonna get arrested, I'm gonna get beaten up, I'm gonna get crucified, but don't worry.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_05: Uh three I'll rise again uh three days later.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_05: Thank God He's merciful and forgiving and patient with us.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, he because He uh He told them that often, and they never just understood it.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_05: And uh we're just like that.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_05: He speaks very clearly to us, but we don't often understand, nor do we want to comply.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we're we're out of time for today.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but uh if you happen to tune in late, we're talking about uh well, was Jesus God?
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh if you missed some of this, go back and listen to it.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and uh hope somebody out there has enjoyed this and been inspired by it, and their faith has been fed by it.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, be encouraged because the body of Christ is growing worldwide and uh Oh, it's crazy.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't believe that the stats now of all the young people are coming to know the Lord.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I talked to a young man, I interviewed him.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's he was uh they he was invited to some Christian events in high school.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I don't want anything to do with this Jesus.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_01: He says, I've already I went to Catholic school or whatever 10th grade, whatever you do.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I've done that, I don't want anything to do with it.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: But finally they kin stuff convinced him to go to this weekend thing, and this guy comes to know Jesus.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now he's on his way to uh matter of fact, he's there now, he's in Boston, and he has a calling now to uh be in the on the campuses leading young people to Christ, and they're coming in multitudes.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh and I said to him, I said, you know, my uh this is my theory that a few years ago uh the the the gates of hell were opened up on the internet, and young men were looking at pornography, but now they found out they come to the end of themselves and realize, boy, there's not much joy in that.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_01: And now they're seeking Jesus on the internet.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, That's exactly what's happening.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: They're all at the bottom of themselves and saying, Hey, we want to know who this Jesus is.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, now Rhett, I saw this yesterday.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_05: Uh can you can you see this?
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_05: Now I want you just to hear what this guy says.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_05: Hold it up to your microphone.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: Christianity is the world's largest religion with 2.3 billion Christians worldwide.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_00: There were 558 million in 1990.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_00: There are now 4.7 million congregations worldwide.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_00: Christianity is the major religion in every major world region barring the Middle East.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: 69% of Christians live not in Europe or the US, but the global south.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is no white man's religion.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: Between 1900 to now, Africa is going from 10 million Christians to 78 million.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_00: In the same period, Asia from 22 million to 416 million.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: Latin America from 62 million to six hundred and twenty million.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: The global south from ninety-eight million to one point eight five billion.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_00: Evangelicals from eighty-one million to four hundred and twenty-four million.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: The Bible is the greatest other book in human history of an estimated six million copies sold.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_00: Bible translation work is currently happening in four thousand four hundred and twenty-nine languages.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: A new Bible and new testament is launched roughly every once every three days.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: More than 99% of the world's people now in theory have a language they can read.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: They record roughly 1 billion app openings every 39 days.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_00: There are probably an estimated 14 million Christian world visitors.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_00: There are roughly 455,000 world missionaries.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_00: American constitution finded upon a built by president.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_00: In the world, there are more than 338 million Christians currently experiencing high levels of persecution or discrimination.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's one in seven.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: But within those churches, they are the fastest growing on the planet.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I guess the big application for us, brother, sister, is please don't give up.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus is still working.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_05: Amen.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: He still has work.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_05: Who is this young man?
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_01: Who is this young man?
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_05: I saw that reel yesterday.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_05: I sent it to my family, and I thought this would be a good way to end our uh our our broad our talk today.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_05: Send it to me too, please.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_05: I will.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_05: It's a big, it's a big movement.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_05: So be encouraged, guys.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_05: We're part of the greatest movement in human history.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_05: Jesus is Lord.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_05: He said it.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_05: He proved it.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_05: And go out today and uh and uh I just pray that God would use you to bring this message to somebody near to you today.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, bring be his hand of love and earn, as you say, earn the uh what is it, the equity to be able to speak into their lives.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, amen.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_05: All right, thank you too much from Utella, Bay Islands, Honduras.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_05: Aloha.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_02: Hallelujah,