Latest / Come Together with Ephraim Herschmann / Entertainment Series 1: Anthony Vittorioso / Martial Artist and Stuntman

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Entertainment Series 1: Anthony Vittorioso / Martial Artist and Stuntman · Come Together with Ephraim Herschmann

• 0:01
  Welcome to another episode of Come Together
• 0:14
  Two and we're live, Tony. Let me see.
• 0:17
  Let me see if I don't butcher your name.
• 0:19
  Vita Vita Rosio. Vita Rosio.
• 0:23
  Hey, that's close enough. People just give up.
• 0:25
  No, it's OK. People just give up all the
• 0:27
  time. Vita Rioso.
• 0:29
  It's me also. Where you from man?
• 0:32
  I'm from Chicago, IL, born and raised.
• 0:34
  Love that place, man. Love that place.
• 0:36
  Chicago proper, OR? Yeah, we I grew up on the West
• 0:40
  side of Chicago. Wow, awesome.
• 0:43
  Yeah. How'd you like growing up there?
• 0:45
  It was, it was, it was good. You know, my, my, my parents
• 0:48
  didn't really let me go out as much because we were on the West
• 0:51
  side of Chicago, even though it's really not bad in a bad
• 0:54
  area, But because they're just protective and they just want
• 0:57
  the best for me. They kind of kept me secluded
• 1:00
  and put me in the martial arts program.
• 1:01
  And that's where I spent most of my times in Chicago.
• 1:05
  So great. Yeah.
• 1:06
  So let's get. So let's dive right in.
• 1:07
  Why don't you tell me a little bit about who you are and what
• 1:11
  you're up to, and we'll go from there.
• 1:13
  Great. Well my name is Tony Victodioso.
• 1:16
  I'm a martial artist, stuntman, fight coordinator and and
• 1:19
  aspiring action director. My passion lies bringing people
• 1:22
  together to create work, something that we can all be
• 1:25
  proud of. And so for me, it's about the
• 1:28
  journey and not so much about the the accolades that'll come
• 1:33
  as as the work happens. So.
• 1:35
  How do you who taught you that perspective?
• 1:38
  That's a great perspective to have, and I feel like a lot of
• 1:40
  people don't have that. I feel like in the, I can't
• 1:44
  speak for everybody, but in the industry people just want to say
• 1:48
  I did this and I did that and you know, you know, they want to
• 1:51
  be the big shot. And I feel like that's that
• 1:53
  happens in most businesses anyways.
• 1:55
  But in the industry you get humbled really fast.
• 1:58
  And so if you just kind of stay humbled the whole way, no one's
• 2:01
  going to put the finger at you as this guy's, this guy's, this,
• 2:05
  this, and this. He's looking for attention, he's
• 2:07
  looking for trouble. He's looking to throw other
• 2:09
  people under the bus for his own, for his own gain.
• 2:12
  I'm sure there's a lot of that, right?
• 2:13
  All the time, but you know, you, you try not to take it personal.
• 2:16
  You just kind of kind of navigate your own way and
• 2:19
  whatever comes your way, you navigate a straight away and
• 2:21
  bada Bing, bada, boom, all is good at the end of the day.
• 2:24
  That's it, you know, that's it. So you started with martial arts
• 2:30
  before you ever thought about doing stunts?
• 2:32
  What martial arts do you study and when did you start?
• 2:35
  I started when I was 4, started off at Bob Zhang's Martial Arts.
• 2:40
  He taught Taekwondo, Hapkido, and I did that up until maybe 12
• 2:47
  or 13 years old. And then when we moved to the
• 2:49
  suburb of Naperville, I found the school called Sharkey's
• 2:52
  Karate, which has basically changed my whole life.
• 2:56
  So once I started there, oh man, just said the, the, the people
• 3:01
  there are so elite. The people there are elite, but
• 3:04
  the person who was guiding that whole, that whole school Sensei
• 3:09
  John Sharkey, he's created average human beings to elites.
• 3:15
  And it's, it's, it's just a persona he has.
• 3:18
  It's his teaching. It's the way he loves you.
• 3:20
  It's the way he guides you. It's like you almost don't want
• 3:24
  to let him down. You know, he, he, he puts so
• 3:27
  much, he pours so much into you. It's like you have no, you have
• 3:33
  no choice but to go. If you mean to go, go mean.
• 3:37
  And that's what that's what he's instilled in us, his go no
• 3:42
  matter what. So.
• 3:43
  I I, I teach, I teach English part time in the afternoons to
• 3:47
  high school students. And one of the things that I've
• 3:50
  noticed over the last couple of years is that when I, I hold my
• 3:55
  students to a higher standard and I tell them that like, I
• 3:58
  know you're smart, I know you're capable, I know you could do
• 4:00
  this, Then that that gives them less ex less excuses for
• 4:04
  themselves to kind of opt out of responsibility.
• 4:08
  You know, and I think that a lot of times we, I think the biggest
• 4:11
  problem that we, we experience, especially as we're growing up
• 4:16
  is like, we almost don't want the standards to be high.
• 4:19
  So that because you know, you don't want to, you don't want to
• 4:22
  let someone down. Like, you know, on one hand, you
• 4:24
  don't want to let someone down. And on the other hand, it's also
• 4:26
  scary because it just means you're taking on extra
• 4:28
  responsibility and the burden of being, you know, of trying to be
• 4:30
  your best yourself requires a lot of effort and a lot of hard
• 4:33
  work. And you know, it's, it's, it's,
• 4:38
  it's a lot to deal with. So I think that I think that
• 4:41
  when you when you're kind of given permission to be great,
• 4:46
  that's when and you know, and and you see that someone
• 4:48
  believes in you, that really brings out the best in, you
• 4:50
  know, people in general. 100% you've been the Senate.
• 4:55
  Any better than that? So what's the difference?
• 4:58
  What's the difference stylistically for anyone that
• 5:00
  doesn't know between karate and you said you started with
• 5:03
  Taekwondo? Yes, Sir.
• 5:05
  So what's the difference stylistically between them, or
• 5:06
  philosophically or whatever? Taekwondo is more of a king art.
• 5:11
  Taekwondo has to deal. I like to think of Taekwondo as
• 5:15
  as fencing with your feet. You know, there's you can also
• 5:19
  say that about Savat too, But Savat is a French kickboxing.
• 5:23
  It's it's more boxing with your feet as I like to think of
• 5:26
  Taekwondo as as fencing with your feet because you're you're
• 5:32
  going in and out in this linear pattern.
• 5:34
  But you can also move off access and and kind of take your angle
• 5:39
  and karate is more grounded. I like to think of karate as
• 5:42
  nerd nerd out a little bit like earth bending, because you're so
• 5:45
  in in tuned with grounding yourself and generating power
• 5:49
  from the ground up into your fist.
• 5:51
  Or whether it's a punch, a kick, a block.
• 5:54
  Our sensei always taught us a a block as a punch, a punch as a
• 5:56
  block, and even the even the kick is a block is you explain.
• 6:00
  What that means? Yeah, so we have this thing
• 6:03
  called Let's go, let's go shoot up, right?
• 6:07
  It's just called a knife hand punch, right?
• 6:09
  OK, so there's uki, then there's zuki, right?
• 6:12
  And uki means a punch or like an attack.
• 6:15
  And the zuki is is a block. So I I could take a knife hand
• 6:23
  block and I could go linearly to to the collarbone.
• 6:27
  But if I just go off access just past my center line, I I can
• 6:31
  take that block that that punch and turn into a block mark if
• 6:34
  the person were to attack my center line.
• 6:36
  I have so. It's kind of adaptable.
• 6:38
  It's kind of adaptable. 100%. Cool, cool, cool.
• 6:43
  Yeah. And, and what do you, what do
• 6:46
  you learn? What do you learn about life,
• 6:47
  especially when you're young, when it comes to martial arts,
• 6:50
  discipline, discipline. That's probably the most
• 6:53
  important thing you can learn, right?
• 6:55
  100% like. For anyone, it doesn't make a
• 6:57
  difference to what you're doing. It doesn't make a difference if
• 6:59
  you're an accountant or a lawyer or a stuntman or anything like
• 7:02
  you got to be. Of course, of of course, because
• 7:05
  you know, motivation comes and goes.
• 7:07
  You know, you can watch inspiration video, you can look
• 7:09
  at your colleagues and be inspired.
• 7:11
  But you know, discipline is what you know, drives you to get to
• 7:16
  your end goal, right? So, you know, there are times
• 7:20
  you don't want to wake up and you don't want to go train, but
• 7:23
  you, you have to do it like you love it.
• 7:25
  You know, when did you do it at all?
• 7:27
  Did. You, I mean, I'm sure that
• 7:28
  didn't happen right away. Do you remember when you like
• 7:31
  kind of shifted into that discipline mindset as a kid?
• 7:37
  It's a great question. Thank you.
• 7:40
  I'd say just like anything, it it, it forms into a habit,
• 7:46
  right. From what I, from what I
• 7:48
  understand, it takes roughly 2124 days to create a habit.
• 7:52
  And I definitely did not do that without the support of my
• 7:54
  family, without the support of, you know, my loved ones.
• 7:57
  And, you know, at the end of the day, I'd be like, mom, I don't
• 7:59
  want to go. She's was you have to go me all
• 8:01
  like, why are you not going? Yeah, you know, and then my
• 8:06
  grandma would and stay with me. And like, you just have to do
• 8:08
  things you don't want to, period.
• 8:10
  And so I think it, it really set in stone with me once I started
• 8:13
  competing in martial arts because now, now it's investment
• 8:17
  of crime. It's, it's, it's travelling,
• 8:19
  it's, it's missing school. It involves money and involves
• 8:23
  so many different, you know, varieties of life, right?
• 8:27
  So you almost don't want to waste it.
• 8:29
  So it really became a, a habit in the discipline and motivation
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  to just do the best that I can do.
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  And even if I failed, I, I know that I put my whole heart into
• 8:39
  it and the people who supported me were happy.
• 8:41
  And if they're happy, I'm happy and vice versa.
• 8:43
  So. I like to help you relationships
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  with potentially losing. You know, you like if you, if
• 8:48
  you lost at a tournament or a competition and you knew you
• 8:52
  really did your best, what was or I don't know what, what,
• 8:56
  what, what experience have you had with that kind of thing?
• 9:02
  You know, if I had to reflect on it now, you know, losing back
• 9:06
  then, it didn't feel like a big deal.
• 9:10
  You know, I don't, I don't know. It's, it's, it's one of those
• 9:13
  things where if it felt like a big deal, but in, in, in the
• 9:19
  grand scheme of it, I was there to have fun.
• 9:22
  You know what I mean? Like, I got to hang out with my
• 9:23
  friends. I got to travel the world, you
• 9:26
  know? I got to do where.
• 9:27
  Where some places you went? I went to Battle of Atlanta.
• 9:32
  We did Kentucky, which is Bluegrass Nationals, which is
• 9:35
  what Sensei Sharkey ran for a while and then he moved it to
• 9:40
  Chicago. Now it's called AKA Grand
• 9:42
  Nationals went to U.S. Open, which is this thing that's
• 9:46
  broadcast, broadcasted on ESPN. So that was really cool to be
• 9:53
  involved with Capital Classics. I'm in Nationals, which is in I
• 9:59
  believe it was in Minnesota I reckon.
• 10:03
  When you go to these places, you checking out the cities, are you
• 10:05
  going with your family? What's what's, what's happening
• 10:07
  at this point? Are you going for the
• 10:08
  tournament? Coming and going?
• 10:10
  I was grace to just go with my sensei, you know, my parents, my
• 10:14
  parents just kind of let me go and I was able to kind of, you
• 10:17
  know, live that that teenage life travelling and just so that
• 10:22
  was really cool and something took care of us.
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  So he was as much as he was responsible for us at the end of
• 10:28
  the day, he gave us the ground rules, you know, don't leave the
• 10:31
  facility unless you tell me. But for the most part, we were
• 10:34
  very respectful of his of his rules because that's our sensei.
• 10:37
  So, you know, there, there's that little gap area where you
• 10:40
  kind of, you know. Yeah, of course you go.
• 10:43
  You look good, man. You're gonna do.
• 10:45
  You gotta do. So.
• 10:47
  Yeah, but I, I feel like I, I, I, I feel like the sensei role
• 10:51
  is like so instrumental for so many people because it's almost
• 10:55
  like parently, right? It's almost like a paternal, A
• 10:58
  paternal kind of figure, the sensei.
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  Yeah, that kind of I feel like if you don't have that kind of
• 11:04
  support at home that the discipline and the and the life
• 11:08
  life lessons that senses teach you really step up for a lot of
• 11:11
  people. Have you, have you, have you
• 11:12
  noticed that in like your in your experiences with other guys
• 11:16
  or guys or girls in your, you know, classes?
• 11:20
  Yeah, yeah. The the sensory role is just our
• 11:25
  senior, you know, you don't want, it's like, it's like how
• 11:29
  you treat your grandma or your grandpa, right?
• 11:33
  It's how you, it's like respecting your elders.
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  You know, at the end of the day, you know, martial arts hasn't
• 11:38
  just taught us like a discipline of physical art.
• 11:41
  It's a spiritual art. But it's also learning how to
• 11:44
  just treat people like how you would like to be treated.
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  But because they're older than you, because they have more,
• 11:49
  more wisdom, you almost want to go above and beyond to, you
• 11:52
  know, show their respect. You know, it goes beyond
• 11:57
  treating how you would treat your parents in a way like
• 11:59
  that's no disrespect to your parents, right, as your parents,
• 12:02
  but it's just, you know, you want to treat them with the
• 12:05
  highest regard, I think. Part of the value, I think part
• 12:08
  of the value of that is like a relationship that you're
• 12:10
  choosing to engage in as opposed to one that you have to is
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  always a little bit more meaningful to the person that
• 12:17
  you're choosing to engage, right?
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  So like the reason a parent loves a kid more than a kid can
• 12:21
  understand is because a parent chose to have the kid and raise
• 12:24
  the kid. The kid didn't choose to have
• 12:26
  the parent, you know, like the kid was born in that situation.
• 12:28
  But if you have a sensei, you know, you choose to sensei and
• 12:33
  you're, you're opting to stay in that relationship with him or
• 12:36
  whatever it is, and, and you're, you're opting to maintain that
• 12:40
  relationship. And so you kind of appreciate it
• 12:42
  more than something that was kind of just there for you to
• 12:45
  just have. You know, I think, I mean,
• 12:48
  that's, that's kind of that's one of the things that I was
• 12:50
  thinking about in terms of, in terms of like coaches and senses
• 12:53
  and stuff like that. You know, it makes such a huge
• 12:55
  difference for so many people. And like I was, I actually did a
• 12:58
  podcast with the woman that's head of criminology,
• 13:01
  undergraduate criminology, University of Miami.
• 13:04
  And one of the things that she was doing research with was how
• 13:07
  organized sports and having these and having coaches and
• 13:09
  role models dramatically, dramatically decrease the
• 13:15
  likelihood for a crime, for adolescent crime and youth
• 13:18
  crime. And, and just having like that
• 13:21
  figure where they kind of, you know, that that role model
• 13:24
  figure at a young age really, really makes all the difference
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  in the world when it comes to your decision making. 100% And
• 13:31
  the sensei doesn't have to be. It could be, it could be a
• 13:35
  teacher, it could be a business advisor, you know, Sensei
• 13:38
  seafood, you know, it, it, it's all the same thing is, is you're
• 13:42
  just looking at someone to the highest regard.
• 13:45
  I like to think of it as also like a mentor, you know, if we
• 13:48
  hadn't put it that way. So yeah, I I wouldn't be where
• 13:52
  I'm at today without the mentors in the senses in life.
• 13:55
  How often do you train? How How do you keep up training?
• 13:57
  How often do you train? What do you do if you're a jug
• 14:01
  of water? Every every day, every day,
• 14:04
  every day, you know, some days go harder than others, you know,
• 14:07
  Some days are more physical, sometimes are more spiritual.
• 14:11
  Some days are just absorbing what I can, you know, and that
• 14:15
  could be from studying film to learning a new language.
• 14:19
  It's just as soon as you become stagnant in your life, I feel
• 14:23
  like you become deluded. And I think no one wants to feel
• 14:26
  like they're deluding, especially as we age.
• 14:29
  And I know agent isn't a big thing, but, you know, we're
• 14:31
  right here for a limited time, so why not go hard?
• 14:34
  You know in. In every possible way so.
• 14:37
  I think that's, I think that's what discipline gives you.
• 14:39
  I feel like discipline gives you the opportunity to really make
• 14:43
  the most of your potential. And I think that, you know,
• 14:46
  because actually one of my biggest fears, like in my life
• 14:49
  in general has just been like to die before feeling like I did
• 14:53
  like, like feeling I wasted my, you know, wasted my potential.
• 14:56
  That was like, I always think about that and I feel a lot
• 15:00
  better about it the last couple of years since I've really
• 15:02
  worked on my discipline and like really worked on not being lazy
• 15:05
  and putting my effort into, you know, 100% into what I do, you
• 15:10
  know, But I think that that attitude, that healthy attitude
• 15:15
  has like I think it's required. I think you need that discipline
• 15:19
  before you can become the best version of yourself that you can
• 15:22
  do and really do all that. What are the?
• 15:24
  What language are you learning? I'm currently learning Urdu,
• 15:28
  which is a extending language, which is it's just hard
• 15:33
  language. Yeah, it's it's hard.
• 15:37
  What's hard about it? The pronunciation and, you know,
• 15:43
  just like any language, it's how, how you structure and, and
• 15:47
  the pauses in between the words and, you know, just like
• 15:50
  English, you can kind of just flow and you know, things
• 15:52
  happen. It's the same and, and, or do
• 15:55
  except, you know, the way that they roll their Rs and, and the
• 15:57
  way that they use their throat and, and their tongue just like,
• 16:01
  just like really any language. But because I primarily Hispanic
• 16:05
  and American, it's just, it's a, it's a very different language
• 16:10
  for me, so. Sure.
• 16:12
  Yeah, but you speak Spanish. A little bit, yeah.
• 16:16
  I'm a, I'm a, I'm a false Mexican.
• 16:18
  I'm half Puerto Rican and half Mexican.
• 16:20
  My, my grandma taught me as much as she could when I was younger.
• 16:23
  And then, you know, as I got older, that kind of all just
• 16:27
  kind of faltered and other things started being a priority.
• 16:30
  Yeah, sure. Yeah.
• 16:31
  I I grew up speaking Hebrew and my Hebrew is not up to snuff as
• 16:36
  compared to what it used to be. It's OK.
• 16:39
  Not all happens. Yeah, I mean, like I could with
• 16:41
  the more I engage, like if I if I practice, if I run into
• 16:44
  someone that speaks Hebrew and I practice for a couple of days,
• 16:47
  it kind of clicks back into place, but it's not what it used
• 16:50
  to be. So.
• 16:51
  So tell me a little bit about the stunt world.
• 16:53
  So tell me for anyone that doesn't know, right, they'll be
• 16:55
  listening. What does stuntman or you know,
• 16:59
  what do stunt people do? Some people do.
• 17:03
  Yeah, just just overall, if someone, if someone never knew
• 17:06
  that this position existed in Hollywood and, you know,
• 17:09
  entertainment, you know what? How would you describe it to
• 17:11
  them? We are the people who put our
• 17:15
  bodies on the line for entertainment and and sometimes
• 17:19
  it can be the simplicity of, you know, coming into lens and
• 17:23
  taking a punch and leaving frame or taking a car hit and then
• 17:27
  having to do that. You know, as many times as they
• 17:30
  say action Wow. So, you know, I think it's one
• 17:36
  of the best jobs to to me. There's there's that rush that
• 17:42
  that you get. It's going to sound kind of
• 17:44
  crazy of of of putting your life on the line for for the sake of
• 17:47
  proving something to yourself. Like, you know, when it when it
• 17:50
  becomes are you set ready 321 action for me, like everything
• 17:53
  kind of the, the hyper focus kicks in and all I hear is
• 17:57
  action. And then to be honest, I don't
• 18:00
  even know what I'm what I'm doing.
• 18:01
  My body jumps and I know what my body moves and I feel like
• 18:07
  that's, that's the form of myself that I don't have to
• 18:09
  think about. You know, you train so hard to
• 18:11
  do all of these, these skills, right?
• 18:14
  And then when it's time to do the skill, your, your body goes
• 18:18
  autopilot and then your brain is allowed to dissect each movement
• 18:21
  as it's happening by, by like a millisecond, which is, which is
• 18:25
  something that I always try to understand as I get older
• 18:28
  because, you know, my, I'm, I'm young, I'm 31.
• 18:32
  I still have a lot in the tank, but I, I made a promise to
• 18:35
  myself by the age of like 36, you know, 37, you know, I'm
• 18:38
  going to try to lean away from, you know, putting my life at
• 18:41
  risk because, you know, I'd like to be more than just a stuntman.
• 18:44
  You know, I'd love to direct films.
• 18:46
  I just want to tell stories. Action will never leave my my
• 18:51
  most on the sewer of violence. And I want to take this violence
• 18:56
  that I have. And, you know, I use violence
• 18:58
  like loosely. You know, there's, there's
• 19:00
  action comedy, there's, you know, there's, there's drama,
• 19:03
  there's even even the romance. There's that sense of violence,
• 19:06
  right? So I just want to tell as many
• 19:08
  stories as I can. I want to represent an idea.
• 19:12
  And I feel like every stuntman has this mentality of just
• 19:15
  telling the story, whether that's with their bodies, you
• 19:17
  know, on screen, whether that's writing or directing action, You
• 19:21
  know, I feel like every stuntman just wants to tell the story,
• 19:25
  but they also want to stay behind the curtains because we
• 19:27
  don't like attention, right? That's The thing is for me, I
• 19:31
  have a select few friends who just, they don't want to talk to
• 19:34
  the actors. They don't really care.
• 19:36
  Really. No, yeah.
• 19:37
  So they just come on to set. They just come on to set, take a
• 19:40
  hit and then take a take and take, do a hit and then walk
• 19:42
  off. And bounce, yeah.
• 19:45
  Don't talk to anyone else. They have nothing else to do
• 19:46
  with the movie, or not really, whatever.
• 19:49
  Yeah. I mean, more or less, you know,
• 19:50
  it's it's, you know it's. It's so is there some, is there
• 19:54
  some community like is there? Like, Oh yes, Oh yeah, yes, I'm
• 20:00
  still learning the community, you know, the as as much as the
• 20:03
  community so small, it's also very vast.
• 20:06
  You know, everybody kind of knows everybody.
• 20:08
  Like for me, my seniors, you know, created.
• 20:14
  A thread, right? And, you know, that thread was
• 20:19
  basically like why they got into what they were doing, you know,
• 20:23
  when they were studying the Jackie Chan films and the Bruce
• 20:25
  Lee films and the Samo films and the Shaw brothers and, and, and
• 20:29
  the Wu pings, like when they were studying those films, you
• 20:32
  know, they would replicate, you know, their own ideas of that
• 20:35
  and what that meant to them. And then they would share with
• 20:37
  each other. But it would be like criticism,
• 20:39
  but like that healthy criticism, right?
• 20:41
  You'd be like, hey, you know, like if you thought about maybe
• 20:44
  slowing down the frame rate or have you thought about, you
• 20:46
  know, putting more intent behind the punch?
• 20:48
  And it'd be like these little things that would make the
• 20:50
  biggest difference. And, you know, now in in our
• 20:55
  community, you kind of see that, but it, it feels more
• 20:57
  competitive. It's it's more like everybody
• 21:00
  wants to get developed because, you know, my mentor told me
• 21:05
  this. His name is Emmanuel
• 21:07
  Manzanarrison. I'll never forget it is there's
• 21:10
  always going to be so many. You're going in you stronger
• 21:12
  than you, better than you and more talented than you, right?
• 21:15
  And it's up to you to decide whether you want to push them to
• 21:18
  the side or you want to help them grow, right.
• 21:21
  And so I feel like that's an ever go, ever going thing in
• 21:24
  life. So in the community, you want to
• 21:27
  basically hone in on the idea of, you know, being genuine with
• 21:30
  your peers and your colleagues and the people who are coming
• 21:32
  up. You want to teach them as much
• 21:35
  as you can, but don't spoon feed them, you know, And I feel like
• 21:38
  a lot of the work back in the day with The Pioneers like Emma
• 21:41
  humans and Aeros and you know, Vlad Rinberg and you know, Eric
• 21:44
  Jacobus, you know, the list goes on, is you, you you just want to
• 21:50
  make sure that you hone in on the idea of what they've done to
• 21:53
  make it for themselves. And then, you know, re innovate
• 21:57
  it to a degree because in my eyes, everything's been done,
• 22:01
  you know, from from camera work to a punch to a kick to a block
• 22:06
  to a throw. But what what what hasn't really
• 22:08
  been tuned in all the way is the emotion that you get behind the
• 22:12
  camera or that, you know, shows in front of the camera.
• 22:15
  The. Nuance.
• 22:16
  The body language is so nuanced. Yes, Sir, a bunch of percent.
• 22:19
  I love that you said that. There's a nuance because because
• 22:22
  there is, you know, every emotion plays a part.
• 22:25
  Like I could throw a punch sad, I could throw the punch angry, I
• 22:28
  could throw the punch, you know, with the straight intent to take
• 22:31
  your head off or to just damage you.
• 22:33
  You know, there's, there's so many, you know, variables of
• 22:36
  doing things, but it all stems from the intent and the emotion
• 22:38
  behind it. And it's what the story needs to
• 22:40
  convey. And so you know a lot of.
• 22:43
  Interesting. When you say, when you say you
• 22:44
  want to direct, you want to tell stories, it's because you can
• 22:47
  find a physical way. Obviously there's more than you
• 22:50
  know, but there's a physical way to tell every story and there's
• 22:53
  a physical way in each moment to like represent what's going on
• 22:57
  in someone's head, in their body and in their and in their
• 23:00
  movement. 100%, Sir, Yeah. Right, Right.
• 23:03
  Yeah, It's so cool. Yeah, it's so cool.
• 23:06
  It's so much fun. Yeah, I'd like to say there's,
• 23:08
  there's always something that you're going to learn whether
• 23:11
  you're the best, you know, you're always going to find some
• 23:14
  small detail that you haven't seen before that you might look
• 23:16
  at it differently even as you age, you know?
• 23:19
  Yeah, so. Yeah, but it doesn't, I mean,
• 23:23
  you, you mentioned that the Stone community is getting a
• 23:24
  little bit more competitive, that everyone wants the jobs
• 23:27
  there's. I feel like I could be wrong.
• 23:29
  I feel like there's a lot more content being produced today
• 23:31
  than ever You got because on top of the big studios, you also
• 23:35
  have the streaming studios and you have Netflix and you have
• 23:38
  Amazon and you have like you have Apple TV and you have you
• 23:42
  have all these studios that are constantly making content.
• 23:44
  Aside from the big, you know, the main studios that everyone's
• 23:46
  known. Is there not more, Is there not
• 23:50
  more jobs available at this point?
• 23:52
  Or is it that there's is that the market becoming became more
• 23:55
  flooded with stunt with stunt people?
• 23:58
  No, I just think, you know, you can look at it from a different
• 24:03
  from multiple perspectives. You know, when when I first
• 24:07
  started, like I started off in Atlanta, like I start off in
• 24:11
  Chicago and I'm a mentor, say, hey, go to Atlanta, go make a
• 24:14
  name for yourself and then go to LA and in Atlanta it wasn't it
• 24:17
  was really easy to work right. You can kind of just.
• 24:20
  So when did you, how old are you when you started, and what got
• 24:23
  you started in it? I started off when I was 19.
• 24:28
  I was working at, I was working at a retail store.
• 24:30
  I didn't know what I want to do with my life.
• 24:32
  I knew that I wanted to do something physical.
• 24:34
  So I, I jumped into a Community College.
• 24:36
  I got my associates and personal treatment Cool.
• 24:39
  And one night after work, I, my, my best friend Nate hit pass,
• 24:44
  sent me a text message and a YouTube video from treasure
• 24:48
  planet where you know, this is, it's the scene on the boat where
• 24:53
  he says you have the making of greatness in you.
• 24:56
  He was already doing stunts at the time with Emmanuel and he
• 25:00
  said, Hey, I think you'd be a good fit for this.
• 25:02
  It's not going to be an easy Rd. but I, I, I'd love to do it with
• 25:05
  you. Right.
• 25:06
  And that was, that was what, what, what pushed me.
• 25:09
  And at that point, I met, I met Manny and then.
• 25:12
  You go for auditions, what do you do?
• 25:14
  Or do you learn skills first? You like, I, I, I, I'm sure you
• 25:17
  like, you know, getting hit by a car isn't something that you
• 25:20
  just do, you know, and like, no matter how physically capable
• 25:23
  you are, right? I'm sure you have to learn this
• 25:25
  stuff, right? Yeah, it's something that you
• 25:27
  practice, you know, like you're not going to practice getting
• 25:29
  hit by par right. But, you know, you, you learn
• 25:32
  how to move your body in a certain way where you can absorb
• 25:34
  the impact and then roll off of it, you know, and then once you
• 25:37
  hit the ground, you, you either if depending how the car is
• 25:41
  going, you can either just take it for what it is, or you could
• 25:45
  kind of create this also dirtiness to it as soon as you
• 25:49
  impact. So at the end of the day, what
• 25:51
  you train is learning how to move your body.
• 25:53
  That's gymnastics, that's martial arts.
• 25:55
  That's what kind of got me into this old knowing, knowing my
• 25:59
  body. So, yeah, I just recently did a
• 26:04
  did a, a car stunt where I had to had to, you know, jump onto a
• 26:08
  moving vehicle and then, you know, push come to shove, I get
• 26:12
  spilled off the moving vehicle, right.
• 26:14
  And, you know, the vehicles going, you know, at most like
• 26:16
  1516. And, you know, you could let the
• 26:19
  vehicle dictate your movement or you could ride the vehicles
• 26:22
  momentum and then make it your own.
• 26:25
  And I feel like, you know, most people would just say, I'm just
• 26:27
  going to let my body go. Well, that that's when the
• 26:29
  injuries happen, right? Is, is you just kind of let
• 26:32
  things happen. Yeah, as soon as you're in
• 26:34
  control and you'll be cognizant of the whole motion of it all,
• 26:38
  you, you start to variate the types of wrecks that you can,
• 26:45
  you know, achieve on film. Yeah, yeah.
• 26:48
  And then and then is there. So what's the feeling like when
• 26:52
  you you get hit by, you know, you get hit by this car or
• 26:54
  you're on this car and you fall off and they're like, cut, we
• 26:57
  screwed up. We need another take.
• 26:59
  Are you like, let's do it again exactly the same way?
• 27:01
  Are you like, that sucks. What's your?
• 27:03
  What's your? Can you do you request other
• 27:05
  takes sometimes or how does that work?
• 27:09
  You know, that kind of depends on the film that you're on,
• 27:11
  right? If, if you're working with the,
• 27:13
  you know, if, how can I say it? If, if it's a first unit job, I
• 27:19
  usually tend to keep my mouth shut.
• 27:20
  Like a first unit job is like, let's say that you're working
• 27:23
  for, let's say Zack Snyder, right?
• 27:25
  He's very intimate with the stunt team.
• 27:27
  He's he's very he, he, he wants the best for his stunt team
• 27:30
  because if it's the best for his stunt team, it's also going to
• 27:32
  make the best for his film. And so, you know, I have a, a
• 27:38
  mentor by, by the name of Damon Carl.
• 27:41
  Him and Zach work so tightly together that if if Damon says,
• 27:44
  hey, we got to go again, you know, Zach's like, Yep, no
• 27:47
  problem. You know, let's get the cameras
• 27:49
  rolling. So there's that trust factor
• 27:51
  that I trust my boss. If he sees something, he's going
• 27:53
  to speak up. If he doesn't say nothing and
• 27:55
  let's say I did something wrong, but he signs off on it, I know
• 27:59
  I'm in my head. You know, I think there's just
• 28:02
  that trust that that you have. But now let's say that, you
• 28:05
  know, we're working on a second unit and you know, usually the
• 28:08
  second unit director is a. Is a stop.
• 28:12
  Second unit is just a separate unit from main unit.
• 28:15
  So you know, mostly main unit will do all of the all of the
• 28:18
  acting bits that lead into the action, right?
• 28:20
  And then the second unit director will be quote UN quote
• 28:23
  like the action director. OK, gotcha.
• 28:25
  More or less than, you know, if I see something or if I feel
• 28:28
  like I do something, I feel a little bit more confident to
• 28:31
  say, hey, you know what? I you know, I don't know if you
• 28:34
  saw that, but I did this, this and this.
• 28:35
  Do you mind if we go again? But also at the same time, you
• 28:38
  have to be cognizant of each take is thousands and thousands
• 28:40
  of dollars, you know what I mean?
• 28:43
  So you don't want to feel like you're the problem.
• 28:44
  You just want to make sure that, you know, they're hiring you.
• 28:47
  It's not, it's not stunt school. It's it's stunt work.
• 28:50
  So you just want to make sure that you're on your your game.
• 28:54
  So, you know, it depends, to answer your question shortly,
• 28:57
  depends on who you're working for.
• 28:59
  Yeah. Do you think that, do you think
• 29:00
  that other is your philosophy about that?
• 29:05
  Is that universal throughout the stunt world?
• 29:08
  Or there are different stunt people that are a little bit
• 29:10
  more, you call them like Divas or whatever, Like, Oh no, I
• 29:13
  don't like that take. I want to do it again.
• 29:14
  Or, you know, they don't have a problem.
• 29:16
  Like they don't look at it like stunt work.
• 29:18
  They look at it like, like, listen, this is my art and I
• 29:21
  want and I want my art to look as, you know, to be as artistic
• 29:25
  as possible. And so I don't mind spending
• 29:27
  another couple grand on a take if it's going to be this piece
• 29:31
  of art, you know? Are there a lot of people like
• 29:33
  that? I feel like that's that's a,
• 29:36
  that's a, that's a conversation amongst the stunt team.
• 29:39
  I don't think it takes one person to say I need to go again
• 29:42
  because my foot was in the wrong place or, you know, I didn't do
• 29:45
  this, you know, specific reaction, you know, that to me
• 29:49
  is going the extreme route. I'm sure that has happened, but
• 29:52
  you know, for the most part, we are all very humble and we
• 29:57
  really trust our, our bosses to put us in the right position in
• 30:01
  the right place. So that's, that's a difficult
• 30:05
  question to ask because I've always been involved with a
• 30:07
  good, with a good team. And so, you know, I, I've never
• 30:10
  really had a thing on set where it's like where things are going
• 30:14
  to happen in the spirit of the moment, but not to say that it
• 30:17
  hasn't happened. You know, there's there's tons
• 30:20
  of. I'm sure there have yeah, that's
• 30:22
  that's that's how I was curious, you know, because you're because
• 30:24
  you you seem to be coming at this from a very mature
• 30:25
  perspective and a very, you know, conscientious of other
• 30:31
  people and and, you know, time and money.
• 30:33
  And you know, how big of a how big of a effort, you know,
• 30:36
  making making a film or making a, you know, you know, putting
• 30:39
  something together is, you know, I just, I was just curious
• 30:42
  whether that's like a general mentality amongst some people or
• 30:45
  whether that you're just, you know, the exception you think to
• 30:47
  the rule. I think I lost you, dude.
• 30:56
  Oh, wait. I got you good.
• 30:58
  I got you again. Yeah, we're good.
• 30:59
  Yeah, yeah. I think for the most part we
• 31:02
  like to think of ourselves behind the curtain if they need
• 31:06
  to go again, you know? Yeah, yeah.
• 31:10
  So what? So what, what?
• 31:11
  What movies and and films have you done?
• 31:15
  What have you just two questions, OK, what are the,
• 31:19
  what's some of the biggest movies that I would have heard
• 31:21
  of and one of the ones that you've enjoyed the most, which I
• 31:23
  don't. I'm sure there's not necessarily
• 31:24
  a correlation between the size as opposed to the how you feel
• 31:28
  about the quality of the stunt work.
• 31:32
  Oh, that's a great question. Brother, every experience holds
• 31:36
  different value for me. What movies have you done that
• 31:39
  would have heard of? Rebel Moon.
• 31:42
  OK, no, that's not. Yeah, we did a Part 1, Part 2
• 31:46
  under Damon, Carl and Freddie Bousillakis.
• 31:50
  Army. Dead Light, because that's a big
• 31:51
  production, right? Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 31:54
  That was a that was a good, that was a good seven months for us.
• 31:57
  We did. Did you walk me through it?
• 32:00
  100% I had worked for a gentleman by the name again,
• 32:04
  Damon Carl on the film called Army the Dead.
• 32:08
  And I got introduced by like I introduced to Damon by another
• 32:14
  colleague by the name of Wayne Doglish, who is also under Damon
• 32:18
  Karl's wing. And you know, my buddy Michael
• 32:23
  Karns, one of my best friends even still today, you know,
• 32:27
  we've been coming up together since since we were thirteen
• 32:30
  years old up at Sharkey's Chronic.
• 32:32
  That's where I met him. And so, you know, he says, when
• 32:35
  I first moved to LA in 2018, Michael's like, yo, I got a job
• 32:39
  that I'm doing with Wayne Doglish.
• 32:41
  I'd love to have you be a part of it.
• 32:43
  I think you'd like him a lot. And you guys would mesh.
• 32:46
  And when we did that job together, I've met Wayne, you
• 32:49
  know, I did a good job. I love the Wayne's vibe.
• 32:51
  I love his action design. And then from there, Fast
• 32:54
  forward the next year, Wayne's like, hey, I'd love to have you
• 32:56
  on this film I'm doing. And I had new Damon Carl's name
• 33:00
  before. So when you said it was for
• 33:01
  Damon, I, you know, I fanboy. I was like, you got to think.
• 33:05
  You got to be kidding me, you know?
• 33:07
  Damon did 300, you know? So when you watch 300, you're
• 33:09
  like, yeah. Spartans.
• 33:11
  Like bad ass warriors, like come on, man.
• 33:14
  And he did sucker punch as well. He did, you know, Man of Steel,
• 33:18
  you know, he did Wonder Woman. So you're like you're, you're
• 33:20
  seeing all these his action design accolades and you're
• 33:23
  looking at, you know, when you watch it for just design, you
• 33:26
  know, I, me and Micah and a lot of my other colleagues just
• 33:29
  gravitated towards that style, right.
• 33:31
  And, and so, yeah, I, I've met Damon on Army of the Dead and
• 33:37
  from then and on we just had like a working, working
• 33:39
  relationship. And you know, he's he's he's
• 33:42
  taught me a lot in like early come UPS as well.
• 33:44
  And you know, again, I wouldn't I?
• 33:47
  Wouldn't. So you go, you go out, you go to
• 33:48
  rebel. So you're in LA.
• 33:50
  You're living in LA at this point.
• 33:52
  Yes, Sir. Yeah.
• 33:53
  And then and then and you go to the Netflix studio and what's
• 33:57
  the set like? What's, what's it?
• 33:59
  Is it, how big is it? Was it?
• 34:00
  What? Can you describe it at all?
• 34:02
  Yeah, it's a big set. It's a big set, right?
• 34:06
  But you know, what's, you know what's really cool about about
• 34:08
  Zack Snyder's, you know, sets, it's so family oriented.
• 34:12
  He's like, he's been working with the same team since, you
• 34:15
  know, since Dawn of the Dead, right?
• 34:17
  And so it's just like, ah, it's like everyone knows everybody.
• 34:19
  And like, I think when you have that, that, that bond, things
• 34:24
  just start moving. And I and I also feel like
• 34:26
  you're, you're able not not argue, but you're able to have
• 34:28
  these creative. It's not even banters, but like
• 34:31
  those. Back and forth.
• 34:33
  Yeah, yeah. And it's, I think that is what's
• 34:36
  cool about his sets. Yes, his sets are big, right?
• 34:39
  Yes, his sets move. $5 million. It's crazy, it's absurd.
• 34:45
  It's absurd how much money goes into each take, how much money
• 34:49
  goes into props and costumes and just even for the stunt
• 34:52
  department, right. The the stunt department is,
• 34:54
  holds millions of dollars, you know, and as first stunt
• 34:58
  coordinators, Jobby, like, how do you take this money that
• 35:00
  they're giving you? How do you preserve it?
• 35:02
  How do you extend it? How do you push it?
• 35:03
  How do you ask for more? How do you, you know, how do
• 35:05
  you, yeah, dictate where this goes?
• 35:07
  Yeah. And and so it's almost.
• 35:10
  Politics. Well.
• 35:13
  Right. You got to figure out who to say
• 35:14
  what to and how to say it and where to go and who to go to and
• 35:16
  they'll go over whose head and you know, what are you talking
• 35:19
  about? Who you talking to?
• 35:20
  I feel like it's all complicated.
• 35:22
  There's politics everywhere. It's which is a whole other, you
• 35:25
  know, conversation. It's done since.
• 35:27
  But yeah, like his, his sets are probably one of the best sets
• 35:31
  I've ever been in. Still like to this day.
• 35:34
  So what's the you get there and how long are you there for?
• 35:38
  Well, we had prep for roughly 3 months.
• 35:40
  We started in January. You're.
• 35:43
  Not moving in there because you live there.
• 35:44
  But what if it's a set that's off, that's off location, right?
• 35:47
  Like out of LA, That's how you're going to, I don't know,
• 35:50
  let's say Atlanta, right? For, you know, to us that and
• 35:54
  you're trained, you get your stuff and you move there for
• 35:57
  three months. Yeah, yeah.
• 36:00
  We for Army of the Dead, we were.
• 36:02
  We they flew us up to Albuquerque and then they flew
• 36:05
  us to New Jersey. And so, you know, they put us up
• 36:07
  in a hotel. Yeah.
• 36:09
  What was that like? Yeah, it's, it's cool.
• 36:11
  I mean, I don't, I don't mind it.
• 36:12
  You know, you're just a minimalist at that point.
• 36:15
  You're living out of your suitcase.
• 36:16
  You know, your main job is just to go to work, you know, do your
• 36:19
  job, come home and then live a decently normal life at that
• 36:23
  point. But you know.
• 36:25
  Is it hard to like? For me, it's not, I know you
• 36:28
  know, some people they need to travel back and forth home.
• 36:31
  Lord watch. I I understand that that makes a
• 36:35
  lot of sense. It's just you.
• 36:39
  You're almost married to the game at that point.
• 36:41
  You. Know what I mean?
• 36:42
  Yeah, yeah. So it's, you know it is what it
• 36:45
  is, or else why you're doing what you're doing.
• 36:47
  So you're showing up to work and there's you starting.
• 36:51
  So let's say so again with Rebel Mood, right?
• 36:52
  So you're, you're, you're going for a couple of three months.
• 36:56
  And do they have they already have a script.
• 36:59
  They already know what the movie's going to be.
• 37:00
  They already know what you're going to be.
• 37:02
  Do they assign you to a main actor?
• 37:06
  Do they assign you to be a villain, you know, and then they
• 37:09
  have coordinated stunts already or what?
• 37:11
  How does that work? So my role on the team was
• 37:15
  utility slash fight team. And so, you know, at that point
• 37:19
  I was I was given a actress to to train throughout the film.
• 37:24
  And so I would talk to my boss. Hey, what do you want?
• 37:26
  I mean, what do you want her to learn?
• 37:28
  Yeah. What are some things that, you
• 37:29
  know, she needs or what's the fight seem like?
• 37:33
  And he would say, Hey, it's going to be like this, this and
• 37:35
  this. So, you know, work on this.
• 37:37
  Then it would be my job to develop a plan, go through with
• 37:40
  him and then off I go. And you know, utility stunts
• 37:43
  like you're coming up with choreo.
• 37:45
  You're you're teaching the the actors, you're assessing them,
• 37:49
  and you're also just being a body.
• 37:50
  Hey, I need you to take this headshot in the corner.
• 37:52
  I got it. Boom.
• 37:53
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.
• 37:54
  Now, from there, I need you to go to wardrobe and see if this
• 37:56
  fits the actress. OK, got it.
• 37:58
  You know, like you're just, you're just a moving part.
• 38:00
  And to be honest, they could do the job without you.
• 38:04
  Like, you know what I mean? Like you're expendable.
• 38:06
  So I, I try, I try not to take it as if I'm such a key player.
• 38:10
  You know, it really, there are tons of dudes like who can do
• 38:13
  what you do right. But I think what makes it worth
• 38:16
  the wild is the connectivity that you have with your stunt
• 38:19
  team. If there's one bad egg in the in
• 38:22
  the batch, you know and the stunt team can kind of go.
• 38:26
  Yeah, it's funky. So you try to be on your best
• 38:29
  behavior and you just try to have mutual understandings, like
• 38:31
  with their colleagues and teammates.
• 38:34
  That is probably the best part about starting from the the
• 38:37
  start of the film to to the end, because you go through this war
• 38:39
  right from the beginning to the end.
• 38:41
  And when you're done, you're like, OK, cool, now what?
• 38:44
  Like like now what do we do? Yeah, yeah.
• 38:47
  So yeah. So and then and then when you
• 38:49
  and then when you look at the final, at the final cup, right,
• 38:55
  are you how, how familiar is it to what you feel like you went
• 38:59
  through as opposed to how it comes out on screen?
• 39:02
  Like when you like, you know, like, for example, again, like
• 39:04
  let's say you get thrown off a car, right?
• 39:06
  Or you jump off a, you jump off a off a roof and, and you're
• 39:11
  jumping off and you see that and you see that.
• 39:13
  Do you see the takes when that happened or no?
• 39:14
  Like do you get to see them? You just do it.
• 39:18
  Yeah, yeah. Like sometimes we'll, we'll see.
• 39:20
  Like if it's a feature spot, I'm not, If it's a feature spot,
• 39:25
  sometimes I'll kind of like, you know, like peek your head just
• 39:27
  to see what's up with it. Or, you know, my boss will say,
• 39:30
  hey, you know, you need to do this, this and this because
• 39:32
  you're a little off frame or, you know, I noticed that they're
• 39:35
  doing this with the camera. Like they're just changing
• 39:36
  things. There's a lot of moving parts
• 39:38
  For me, I like to just wait to be told kind of what to do
• 39:41
  because my boss is kind of the dictator of how he orchestrates,
• 39:46
  you know, the action scene. So it's just I just really hone
• 39:50
  in on that. Yeah.
• 39:51
  And then, but then when you watch it at the end, you're
• 39:53
  like, whoa, that's crazy. I didn't realize I look like
• 39:55
  that. Is that what happened with your
• 39:56
  with your friend of thought? Yeah, yeah.
• 40:00
  You know, it's cool. It's cool because, you know,
• 40:03
  there's like the director's cut and then there's like the
• 40:06
  production cut. Yeah, it's, it's got a fifth or
• 40:08
  time frame. And so, you know, some things
• 40:11
  you do. It happened many times before.
• 40:13
  I've done some gags and some stunts that haven't made the
• 40:15
  film. You're like, OK, well, that was
• 40:17
  fun, you know, for what it was on the day.
• 40:19
  Like I got to ride a wire and, you know, take a bump.
• 40:22
  Like that was fun. And I still did it with a smile
• 40:23
  even though, you know, my back got practical.
• 40:25
  But nevertheless that that's what we do.
• 40:28
  But it's like just just seeing, just seeing the work on the
• 40:31
  screen is cool enough. I can imagine, dude, I did.
• 40:34
  I went to just the other day. I was at jujitsu.
• 40:37
  I just started. I mean, I started about a month
• 40:39
  and change ago, right? And, and I'm rolling with this
• 40:43
  dude that's been, you know, doing this for probably 7 or 8
• 40:46
  years. And he's really been showing me
• 40:48
  he's kind of a little bit more similar to my weight, my weight,
• 40:50
  my bills. And so he's kind of been like,
• 40:52
  you know, teaching me a lot. And so he and I are rolling and,
• 40:56
  and at some point I go for, I'm not a particularly flexible,
• 41:01
  active physical person. That's why I started jiu jitsu,
• 41:04
  because I wanted to really confront my physical concerns
• 41:07
  and fears and you know, and my and how timid I am physically
• 41:12
  and like it's it's, you know, so rolling at some point, I don't
• 41:14
  even know. I happened just like a blink.
• 41:16
  I just did like we just did like AI did like a he kind of
• 41:19
  backflipped me, like tumblesoft me, right, and I was like and I
• 41:22
  felt the motion happening and it was over before I even thought
• 41:26
  to like even think about it. Like you just like kind of just
• 41:29
  happened and it was like a rock. He kind of like flipped me, you
• 41:31
  know, like I felt like my whole like one minute I'm like this
• 41:34
  and the next minute like my whole body is just the other
• 41:36
  way. And I was like, and I was like,
• 41:40
  I would have loved to see what that looked like, you know,
• 41:42
  like, I would have loved to see like, you know, what that was.
• 41:44
  So I can imagine how, how, how, how, how cool it is at the end
• 41:48
  of the day to like, you know, see the magic of the of the film
• 41:52
  come to life at the end of it, you know?
• 41:53
  Yeah. Do that.
• 41:55
  That's cool that you got flipped.
• 41:57
  Yeah, I. Got I got my first admission, I
• 41:59
  was very excited about that too. And then I got yelled at for
• 42:01
  celebrating because I was told not to, not to do that.
• 42:05
  But I but the the other thing that I was going to actually ask
• 42:08
  you about and a problem that I had because I was starting.
• 42:12
  So I guess it's cool to kind of have an appreciation, but still
• 42:15
  be a beginner, you know, so I can kind of understand what like
• 42:18
  the actors and actresses would be going through as they're
• 42:20
  getting trained by someone like yourself.
• 42:24
  You know, one of the, the second class I did this guy, this guy,
• 42:26
  this the, the, the trainer there, whatever it was, really
• 42:30
  kicked my ass. And he really made me work hard.
• 42:32
  And part of the things that he taught me how to do was to take
• 42:34
  a fall. And so it's like, you know, one
• 42:36
  of the one of the pad, but to throw back and to kind of like
• 42:38
  how to, how to land backwards, right?
• 42:41
  And I did, I did a bunch of times because he made us go back
• 42:43
  and forth across the mat. And at the time I was like, this
• 42:47
  is awesome. And then I legitimately could
• 42:50
  not move for like 4 days after, like, you know, like that
• 42:53
  afternoon I got I, you know, I got home, I felt, I kind of
• 42:56
  felt, and I'm sure that you've experienced this almost like
• 42:58
  while I was driving home, like almost like a physical trauma,
• 43:00
  like my body was kind of shaking a little bit from, you know,
• 43:03
  from taking it, you know, taking those hits.
• 43:06
  And then I got home and like my whole body just like ached.
• 43:10
  Does that, does that hold up production?
• 43:13
  Do you take that into account? Do do acts as an actress
• 43:16
  complain about that when you're teaching them?
• 43:17
  Like, Oh my God, I'm in so much pain, what do I do?
• 43:19
  How do I get over this? What do you do about that?
• 43:22
  100% and congratulations on that pain because that's because
• 43:25
  you're now now, now your body's familiar.
• 43:28
  It is, by the way, because I'm not as sore as I as I used to be
• 43:32
  for sure. Right.
• 43:34
  So, yeah, I mean, you know that, you know that right there is,
• 43:37
  you know, once the body starts to familiarize itself with this,
• 43:40
  you know, pain or this, this, this physical trauma, you know,
• 43:44
  the, the body's very adaptable, whether you talk to it or not,
• 43:47
  it's going to adapt to whatever, you know, stresses that it puts
• 43:51
  itself under. So even on a set, like
• 43:54
  adrenaline dumps are, are, are real man.
• 43:56
  Like you get pulled on to set, you know, you, you go from 4
• 44:00
  hours of doing nothing or 8 hours of doing nothing to you're
• 44:04
  the last hour of the day. And like everything you've
• 44:06
  waited for just goes go, go, go, go.
• 44:07
  And then when you're done, you're like, I just feel like it
• 44:09
  went through a marathon. Your, your body just depletes
• 44:12
  and the soreness kicks in. But then you got to get up again
• 44:15
  and do it tomorrow. So what do you?
• 44:17
  How do you recover? What?
• 44:18
  So what do you do to recover? You know, there's, there's
• 44:21
  stretching, there's the, the ice baths, there's, you know, you
• 44:24
  can do the ibuprofens and you know, it's just for me, I need
• 44:30
  to be a little bit more better on this is just turning off the
• 44:34
  brain, you know, just taking away all technology, taking
• 44:38
  away, you know, you know, music, just taking away things and just
• 44:41
  kind of hone in on like meditation, just calm, calming
• 44:44
  the nervous system down because in stunts, you're always go, go,
• 44:47
  go, go, go, and then it stops and then go, go, go, go, go and
• 44:49
  it stops. And if you just hone in on just
• 44:52
  relaxing the whole nervous system and turning off
• 44:54
  everything. I feel like that for me has been
• 44:57
  very helpful and just being able to get up and do it again the
• 45:01
  next day for months, months and months at a time.
• 45:04
  So when did when did you start meditating?
• 45:06
  How much are you learning still learning process?
• 45:11
  Because, you know, that's, it's an ongoing cycle.
• 45:14
  But I think for me it was Army of the Dead.
• 45:17
  You know, it was, it was my first really big movie run.
• 45:20
  You know, I was. How long did it take you to get
• 45:21
  Army of the Dead? How?
• 45:23
  Long did it take me to get there.
• 45:24
  As in like how old are you when you did it from as opposed to
• 45:26
  when you started? Like was it considered your big
• 45:28
  break? Was that like, oh, you throw
• 45:30
  this on your resume and you're like, now I hear the movie and
• 45:32
  how long did it take you to get that that film?
• 45:34
  Yeah, 2019 is is when I got onto Army of the Dead.
• 45:38
  It was in March. Yeah, it was in March years ago.
• 45:42
  Yeah. So, you know, I was in the
• 45:44
  business or I started at 2013 and then you know, 2019 I got my
• 45:50
  big break and from then on four years.
• 45:53
  Before those, before that big break.
• 45:56
  I was in Atlanta, so I was doing a lot of, you know, TV shows.
• 45:59
  We call it day playing. So day playing is like you come
• 46:02
  in, you do a quick little job and you go home, right Some
• 46:06
  days. Experience.
• 46:08
  That's it by the Bing, by the boom.
• 46:09
  You, you do your your job and you go home.
• 46:12
  I was very grateful to land a doubling role for The Walking
• 46:16
  Dead. I doubled a character by the
• 46:18
  name of Jesus. And so I was there for like 3 or
• 46:22
  Four Seasons at at where they 2 they shot in Savannah, GA, I
• 46:27
  reckon. OK.
• 46:29
  Something like that. To be honest, it's it's been a
• 46:32
  bit. Wow, is that fun.
• 46:34
  What was that? When you're a double, that means
• 46:36
  that that you're a double for a main for a main for a main actor
• 46:39
  on screen. Yeah, yeah.
• 46:41
  Or like a reoccurring actor. Yes, Sir.
• 46:43
  Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. And then they presumably have
• 46:46
  enough action scenes involved in that, in their, in their acting
• 46:49
  that you that they need you to step in for that.
• 46:52
  Yes, Sir. What do you think of actors that
• 46:53
  do their own stunts? I think that's awesome.
• 46:56
  You know, they, you know, for, for, again, for us, we're just
• 47:00
  behind the scenes, man. Like people hate hearing this,
• 47:03
  but it's like, I think we're, we're cheerleaders for them.
• 47:05
  Like we're there to test it for them.
• 47:07
  We're there to teach them it and we're there to pump them up to
• 47:09
  get it done. You know, like that's our main
• 47:13
  job is being a double. And so, you know, when he would
• 47:17
  ask me, hey, how do I do this? And but you know, the camera's
• 47:21
  going to be here and you're going to do this.
• 47:24
  And then there are times where you know, they don't want your
• 47:29
  help and that's OK. You know, that's that's just,
• 47:33
  it's figuring out what they like and going off in that a lot of
• 47:39
  the times. So, so will an actor decide on
• 47:43
  like on set while it's happening?
• 47:45
  Hey, I'm going to try to stunt myself.
• 47:46
  Or typically speaking, they already knew in advance.
• 47:48
  Hey, you know, like I'm sure not everyone's a Tom Cruise.
• 47:51
  You know, Tom Cruise, the most famous example.
• 47:52
  Who else does their own stunts? And do you know any other actors
• 47:57
  off the top of your head that do their own stunts and what the
• 48:01
  and and also are, do you think people are inclined to just try
• 48:04
  it in the moment like, oh, hey, you know, let me just try
• 48:06
  jumping this. Let me try to do this jump.
• 48:09
  Sure. I mean, I think every actor,
• 48:13
  actress wants to do their own stuff because, you know, at the
• 48:16
  end of the day, they're also trying to get booked on their
• 48:18
  next job, right. So if the Asian saying if if the
• 48:22
  actors like, hey, I want to, I want to do this fight scene,
• 48:25
  right. The sun coordinator will talk to
• 48:27
  the actor, the director will get involved.
• 48:29
  And you know, at the end of the day, it just becomes is this a
• 48:32
  safety issue or no, right. If it's not so much of A
• 48:35
  detrimental safety issue, then hey, go, go do it.
• 48:40
  Because again, the actor or actress will put their character
• 48:44
  into that punch. As much as we'll do it right,
• 48:49
  they'll do it more. They'll have it with more
• 48:51
  justice. You know, so, so, so does that
• 48:55
  does that mean that you've that, and let's say again, let's say
• 48:59
  in Walking Dead scenario, right for you that that you're
• 49:03
  following the script and the character in his emotional state
• 49:06
  and then and then when you're doing the stunts, you're trying
• 49:09
  to replicate what the actor has been doing until that point?
• 49:12
  Correct and like. Wow, that's awesome.
• 49:17
  So you so so you really are acting yourself.
• 49:19
  Do you want, do you want to break into acting or you don't,
• 49:21
  You don't want to be in front of the camera like.
• 49:23
  That, that's a good question. I, I feel like in the indie
• 49:26
  world, you know, we have to act because it's, it is our, our
• 49:29
  face when we shoot our own shorts.
• 49:32
  So like, I don't mind acting, you know, I just think as I even
• 49:36
  again, as I'm getting older, I'd, I'd love to action direct
• 49:39
  and just direct in general. And you have to break into
• 49:42
  emotion, right? So you're almost forced to act
• 49:47
  or else you're going to be a director who can't act or can't,
• 49:49
  you know, explain to something about, Hey, this is the emotion,
• 49:53
  emotional content I want for the specific scene, XY and Z.
• 49:58
  But, you know, when I first started off, I wasn't really
• 50:01
  into acting. I was actually more embarrassed
• 50:03
  or just like, I'm a little shy. Like, I don't know how to
• 50:05
  express myself unless it's a like I'm going to fight
• 50:07
  something. Yeah.
• 50:09
  So yeah, I feel like I'd like to act more, but that's not what
• 50:14
  I'm chasing right now. If it if it comes my way, heck
• 50:18
  yeah, put me in front of a camera.
• 50:19
  Let me just do my thing. How some how, some how what kind
• 50:23
  of skill set trans carries over from stunts to directing?
• 50:28
  And what do you think you'll need to learn in order to be a
• 50:31
  director? You know, because I feel like,
• 50:38
  you know, and I actually, I think that a lot of what you're
• 50:40
  saying, like for example, you know, one of the favorite things
• 50:44
  I know it was of my favorite things in movies are like the
• 50:46
  unsaid things that are just spoken with body language and
• 50:48
  like, you know, and like you could have moments give what I'm
• 50:52
  sure you watch The Sopranos, you watch Sopranos.
• 50:56
  My parents were super into The Sopranos.
• 50:58
  I know it was a it was a classic drama.
• 51:00
  OK, so there's there's a scene, there's a scene in the in the
• 51:03
  show at one point where where the the main mafia guys
• 51:08
  therapist is raped and she's trying to figure out whether or
• 51:11
  not she should tell him because she knows that the mobster could
• 51:13
  kill it could kill the rapist in a minute, right?
• 51:15
  All I just do is just say what happened, give the guys a name
• 51:17
  and end of it, right? And but she has this moral
• 51:22
  conflict within her as to whether or not to go ahead with
• 51:25
  this. And they shot that scene so
• 51:30
  beautifully because she it was almost no words the whole time.
• 51:34
  Like it was just body language speaking.
• 51:36
  It was just like him prompting her, you know, raising an
• 51:39
  eyebrow. What do you want to tell me?
• 51:41
  You know, like, kind of like lifting up his chin a little
• 51:43
  bit. And like you see that Like she's
• 51:45
  almost like reserved and thinking and like she's using
• 51:48
  her entire body and she she just breathes in her conflict, you
• 51:54
  know, like that's just something that you just like sense coming
• 51:56
  out of her. And she ends up not saying, you
• 51:59
  know, not not not not doing it, not saying anything to him.
• 52:02
  So I'm sure that like that what you're communicating, you know,
• 52:06
  that that that that could that that body communication, that
• 52:09
  body language is something that you would probably be able to
• 52:12
  carry over pretty well in terms of skills from stunts to
• 52:15
  directing. What do you think that you would
• 52:17
  have to like kind of pick up? What kind of skill sets do you
• 52:19
  think you'd have to learn? Wow.
• 52:23
  I say being intuitive, you know, learning, learning to feel at
• 52:29
  the moment, you know, because you know, you know, we're
• 52:32
  getting actors and actresses together to invade something,
• 52:36
  right? And they're going to know their
• 52:38
  character better, you know better, you know, either
• 52:40
  obviously go to study that character and you're going to
• 52:42
  get into the mindset of that character.
• 52:43
  So there's, I'd say it's being in, in intuitive, it's having
• 52:49
  that relationship to communicate openly on, on, on what's
• 52:52
  necessary and what's not necessary and really, really
• 52:55
  trusting your environment. I feel like a lot of you.
• 52:59
  Feel like you'd be one of those collaborative directors, You'll
• 53:01
  be one of those like, almost like create that family
• 53:03
  environment like Zack Snyder did. 100%, yeah, 100%.
• 53:08
  You know, you. For me, I just as much as I want
• 53:12
  to represent an idea, the biggest satisfaction about
• 53:16
  finishing a movie is just seeing everyone else's faces of
• 53:21
  accomplishment. And I feel like that's more
• 53:24
  satisfaction than, you know, getting to do this really hard
• 53:27
  stunt. You know, as much as that's
• 53:29
  really fun and it's and you get to say I like I did that.
• 53:32
  It's like you, you got to be a part of a family.
• 53:35
  Yeah. And then you get to move on to a
• 53:36
  different family. Such a it's such a cool, it's
• 53:39
  such a cool place to be coming from.
• 53:41
  It really is. I think that it's, I think the
• 53:45
  director of the John Wick series was originally a stunt, was
• 53:48
  originally a stuntman, right? Yes, Sir Chesterhalsky.
• 53:53
  Yeah, that's right. I heard him on Rogan before and
• 53:55
  I heard him talking about it and, and, and he and he made
• 53:59
  that, you know, he made that he's like, you know, being a
• 54:02
  stuntman made the transition so easy because you kind of you,
• 54:05
  you know, you're in the nitty Gritty's you're you're, you're
• 54:08
  in the you know, you're in the dirt, you're in the roots.
• 54:10
  And like you kind of know, like really, you know, what goes what
• 54:13
  what makes the magic on screen based on based on that kind of
• 54:17
  stuff? Have you worked?
• 54:18
  Have you worked with a green screen before or modern?
• 54:21
  What kind? What extent of modern technology
• 54:23
  have you worked with? We've done some Green Street
• 54:26
  work before. What's that like?
• 54:30
  I did a man from Toronto. With Kevin Hart and Woody
• 54:35
  Harrelson. Yeah, yeah.
• 54:37
  I love that one. That was really laugh.
• 54:39
  Yeah. It was fun.
• 54:41
  We, we do often we at the end of the film, there's this, there's
• 54:46
  this aircraft sequence, right? And so my my boss, Philip
• 54:49
  Silvera, who's who is who's right now doing the new
• 54:52
  Daredevil series, quote. He he put me in a blue suit and
• 54:58
  I had to stand behind a box and move it as if the cargo, you
• 55:03
  know, was moving like out of the air, right.
• 55:05
  So, you know, and then they paint us out like in post.
• 55:07
  But, you know, at that point, we're just puppeteers for for
• 55:11
  the set, right? Yeah.
• 55:12
  If, if this needs to move this way, we'll, we'll jerk it in a
• 55:15
  way. And that you literally.
• 55:18
  Moving things around and they're knocking you out of the picture.
• 55:20
  Yes, Sir. Wow, crazy.
• 55:23
  So when things are flying, you know, one of the things I'm
• 55:26
  thinking of. Do you watch out Uncharted?
• 55:28
  Come on. Nice.
• 55:30
  Yeah, Yes. Yeah.
• 55:31
  You know, you know what I'm talking about, right?
• 55:32
  That initial plane sequence where Tom Holland is like
• 55:35
  flying, you know, falling out of the plane and then he's, you
• 55:37
  know, and he's hanging on to that whole strand.
• 55:39
  How would that work? Can you explain that to me or
• 55:41
  what would that be like? Yeah, like you, you, you have
• 55:45
  your after, you know, ghost, Ghost go through the motions of
• 55:50
  what the scene entails. And our coordinator will go, we
• 55:55
  need this cargo to chip off of this piece of pillar, right?
• 56:00
  And then it's gonna fall past them.
• 56:02
  And then when it falls past them, just let it go because
• 56:06
  we're clear of the actor at that point.
• 56:07
  Yeah. So you're having to dance with
• 56:09
  your actor. So you're almost performing with
• 56:11
  your actor, which is actually really cool, you know.
• 56:14
  And so you kind of say they, you know, like, hey, man, like I'm,
• 56:16
  I'm going to do this. Like it's not going to get close
• 56:18
  to you, You know, you kind of create this relationship, but
• 56:20
  it's it's an instant, right? Yeah, it's, it's so
• 56:23
  instantaneously then like, yeah, yeah, got it, got it.
• 56:25
  And so it's cool, man. Like you, you just get to meet
• 56:28
  people on a, on a, on just a dime, man.
• 56:31
  You're just like, that was a cool interaction.
• 56:33
  And then it turns out cool and you're like, alright, cool, man.
• 56:35
  Like it was good working with you.
• 56:36
  And then and then you go home like, oh, I got to meet this
• 56:39
  guy. But you know, it's at the end of
• 56:42
  the day, we're just, we're just, we're just trying to get the job
• 56:44
  done and do it. And then we can just kind of go
• 56:47
  home and laugh about it. So.
• 56:48
  Yeah, you're being modest about it, dude.
• 56:50
  I appreciate that though. I think it's great.
• 56:51
  So, so there's so green screen is green screen is good for, for
• 56:56
  heavy, heavier editing. And you're not necessarily even
• 56:58
  in the scene, but you're doing the behind the scenes work and
• 57:01
  actually getting that relationship with the actor,
• 57:03
  actress, you know, presumably or hopefully, right.
• 57:07
  And then and then do they ever like remember particular some
• 57:10
  people like, hey, I enjoyed working with them.
• 57:12
  I want to do that again. Or does that happen?
• 57:14
  Yeah, yeah, that's happened a couple times.
• 57:17
  I'm trying to think of a time has happened to me, but I'm so
• 57:21
  kind of checked out by a certain point.
• 57:23
  Yeah, I know that certain actors request certain coordinators to
• 57:27
  come in and run their and run their movie.
• 57:30
  I know that that happens all the time.
• 57:32
  So I know sudden actors want specific double S for them
• 57:35
  because, you know, they have that communication.
• 57:38
  Yeah, so. Like a movie, you want to find a
• 57:41
  time in Hollywood. You name it, you.
• 57:43
  Love that movie dude. That's one of my favorite movies
• 57:45
  of all time. Did you see them making?
• 57:47
  Yeah, it is. Did you see them making a
• 57:49
  Netflix? A second movie?
• 57:52
  It's being written by. It's being written by Tarantino.
• 57:56
  I forgot who's directing it, but it's going to be about it's it's
• 58:01
  featuring Brad Pitt and his his adventures as a stuntman around
• 58:04
  LA. Yeah, dude, it's really
• 58:08
  exciting. It's really, really cool.
• 58:11
  I think that Tarantino was planning on having it be his
• 58:13
  last movie, and I think he changed his mind and degree just
• 58:16
  to write it and he wanted to direct his own thing.
• 58:19
  But I'm really hyped about. I'm really hyped about that,
• 58:22
  too. That sounds like it's going to
• 58:24
  be a lot of fun. Yeah.
• 58:26
  I mean, thanks for the insight. You have to look that up and.
• 58:28
  How accurate, how accurate are movies like that?
• 58:31
  That Ryan Gosling movie, The Fallman.
• 58:35
  Do you watch that? Yeah.
• 58:36
  How accurate is that to like, Stuntman's life?
• 58:39
  Obviously it's a joke. It's like, you know, it's like,
• 58:41
  whatever, but like. It was directed by a stuntman.
• 58:45
  Yeah, it was. Yeah.
• 58:46
  Dave. Dave Leach.
• 58:48
  Yeah. Is it stuntman?
• 58:50
  Yeah, stuntman turned director, Martial artist, director.
• 58:56
  Oh, fan, fantastic martial arts stuntman, director.
• 58:58
  You know, you had, you have, you know, David Leach, I see this as
• 59:02
  the Holy Grail, right? You have you have like David
• 59:04
  Leach, Chad, Chad Estehausky and Damon Karl, like those those
• 59:09
  three are just in my opinion, during that time, they were just
• 59:13
  even still they're at they're at the top of their game and
• 59:16
  they're all directors now. And so again, just like Chad
• 59:19
  said, it's like they've all been in the nitty gritty.
• 59:21
  So they know what it feels like to run a set.
• 59:23
  They know what it feels like to get things moving.
• 59:25
  And when you watch fall guy, he's like, there's these like
• 59:27
  little like inside jokes that only stop man would understand.
• 59:31
  So for us, it felt pretty personalized to us to the
• 59:35
  general public. It's my like, I don't get it,
• 59:38
  right? But for us, for like, dude,
• 59:41
  yeah, like that fucking sucks. What not?
• 59:42
  Happening. It's an inside joke, dude.
• 59:43
  It's an inside joke for the industry, dude.
• 59:45
  It's so cool. It's so cool that they do that.
• 59:47
  Yeah, and one of the main double S, Ben Jenkins, dude, he was
• 59:53
  Ryan Gosling's double. If if you look at the stunts,
• 59:55
  you know, they're, they're all pretty heavy hitting stunts,
• 59:59
  man. Like, that's a stuntman's movie
• 1:00:03
  for sure. You know, a lot of a lot of
• 1:00:06
  ground breaking things were done there, right?
• 1:00:08
  You have, you have the car flip, you have the helicopter jump
• 1:00:12
  that was done by a gentleman, Troy Brown.
• 1:00:15
  You know, it's just like you, you have some all around amazing
• 1:00:19
  stunt guys on that film and you it's it's just a masterpiece.
• 1:00:25
  I, I think it's a masterpiece because you're taking what we do
• 1:00:30
  for a living. And some people say that it's a
• 1:00:34
  joke and, but I see it as a, as a, as a masterpiece, you know?
• 1:00:39
  How you could, I mean, I, I when you say take it as a joke, you
• 1:00:42
  talk about stunts or you're talking about the movie itself.
• 1:00:46
  You know, you know stunts. You know, because.
• 1:00:47
  Yeah, I don't know. People could.
• 1:00:48
  I don't know people could. It's so physically, like it's so
• 1:00:51
  physically impressive. You know what, what are, what
• 1:00:54
  are some of the crazier what, what are some of the crazier
• 1:00:57
  stunts that you've done throughout your career?
• 1:01:00
  Oh. There were some of the most some
• 1:01:03
  of the most entertaining or fun ones that you were like, whoa,
• 1:01:06
  and you just did it. I got to for a movie called Nope
• 1:01:11
  by Jordan Peele. Yeah, I got to, yeah.
• 1:01:14
  I got to hang from a helicopter by my leg upside down.
• 1:01:19
  And so it was in Santa Clarita. They, they tied me up, you know,
• 1:01:24
  by a helicopter. I'm rigged up.
• 1:01:26
  I have a harness on. I do all this thing.
• 1:01:28
  And you know there was a. Heavy weight do you feel?
• 1:01:31
  Oh you IA 100%. 100% safe, absolutely no concerns.
• 1:01:35
  You're like, this is just cool. As soon as you leave room for
• 1:01:38
  concern, things, things can go wrong.
• 1:01:40
  So, you know, you just, I've never worked for this
• 1:01:42
  coordinator before. And so, you know, I'm not going
• 1:01:45
  to, I'm not going to disrespect him by saying he, he doesn't
• 1:01:48
  know what he's doing. So I feel like when you're hired
• 1:01:50
  by certain guys, of course you do your research, you know, and
• 1:01:53
  you, you figure out like what they've done.
• 1:01:55
  But I feel like you have to wholeheartedly trust, trust your
• 1:01:57
  trust your boss. I don't want to psych myself out
• 1:02:00
  by saying, you know, is this tied, right?
• 1:02:03
  Granted, you check the work, you know, like when they rig you up,
• 1:02:06
  you say, hey, you like, is this, is this where it's supposed to
• 1:02:09
  be? And they say, yeah, it's there's
• 1:02:11
  no harm in saying that because, you know, accidents happen.
• 1:02:14
  But when you get in your head and saying like, oh, it's
• 1:02:16
  something bad's going to happen, then it's it's really hard to
• 1:02:18
  perform at that point. Now you're just thinking like,
• 1:02:21
  is something wrong going to happen?
• 1:02:23
  You should read there's a great book called chatter.
• 1:02:27
  I think it's by Ethan Cross. I believe his name is not.
• 1:02:29
  But if you just Google chatter, it'll pop up and it talks all
• 1:02:32
  about it's all about that voice in your head and, and, and where
• 1:02:36
  it comes from and ways to with direct.
• 1:02:41
  I don't want to say control it directed right?
• 1:02:43
  And, and, you know, and, and, and I feel like a big part of
• 1:02:48
  that is directly, I feel that directly impacts performance,
• 1:02:53
  performance activities. You know, is, I mean, I know
• 1:02:57
  that from my own experience because I, I happen to be a
• 1:02:59
  massively in my head, you know, and whether it's, you know,
• 1:03:02
  basketball tryouts in high school or whether it's open mics
• 1:03:05
  with a guitar, these, you know, you know, today, yesterday,
• 1:03:08
  whatever it is, you know, like I'm always in my head about,
• 1:03:11
  about that. And like, I have so much
• 1:03:12
  chatter. And like you said, the only
• 1:03:16
  time, you know, the only time I ever really feel like I'm, I'm
• 1:03:18
  performing well is when I find a way to turn it off.
• 1:03:21
  And it's just a really, it's a challenging thing to do.
• 1:03:23
  Like, I don't understand. Like you're saying, oh, yeah,
• 1:03:25
  you can't do that because it gets in the way.
• 1:03:26
  But like, it's not something that's simple to do.
• 1:03:28
  It's not like, oh, yeah, it's just a voice that's talking.
• 1:03:30
  You're like, oh, shut up. OK, fine.
• 1:03:32
  Bye. You know.
• 1:03:32
  Yeah. What do you?
• 1:03:34
  Is that what meditation helps? I'd say so, yeah.
• 1:03:37
  I think you know I. Mean.
• 1:03:40
  Maybe you feel this or you will become to feels like when you do
• 1:03:43
  jiu jitsu, right? It's more of a feeling, right?
• 1:03:46
  You have to feel where the geese at.
• 1:03:47
  You have to feel where their weight's AT.
• 1:03:49
  And as soon as you start thinking, you know, man, did I
• 1:03:53
  did, I put the chicken in the pot today.
• 1:03:55
  It's like you're already getting ducked out.
• 1:03:57
  You know what I mean? It's like it's basically playing
• 1:03:59
  chess and being in again, intuitive with what's happening.
• 1:04:02
  And so I feel like, you know, martial arts is such a great way
• 1:04:05
  to just kind of ground yourself. Oh yeah, That's one of the
• 1:04:08
  things I love about it, dude. One thing I love about it is
• 1:04:10
  that my life is so chaotic, and for that hour, nothing exists
• 1:04:14
  except for what I'm doing right now, you know?
• 1:04:16
  Like, nothing exists except for the fact that this guy has my
• 1:04:19
  healer right now and I'm in big trouble, you know?
• 1:04:24
  Stay away from my heels please dude.
• 1:04:27
  No room for that, brother. There's no room, right?
• 1:04:29
  Because it can be devastating. You get on that.
• 1:04:32
  I didn't really. I do, I do.
• 1:04:35
  The rule is tap fast, tap quick, you know, tap often, tap fast,
• 1:04:38
  tap often. You know, like you don't, you
• 1:04:40
  don't be a hero. It's not worth it.
• 1:04:44
  But I'll do is I'll tap and then I'll get myself back.
• 1:04:47
  I'll have them walk me back through exactly what position I
• 1:04:50
  was in, where I went wrong and what I could do to get out of
• 1:04:53
  that next time if I could, you know, or I try to, you know, but
• 1:04:58
  and then you go again and you're like, OK, now I remember.
• 1:05:01
  Don't stick my heel out. Keep my elbows tucked a little
• 1:05:03
  bit, you know, keep my chin down so that I can't get submitted.
• 1:05:06
  And like, like you don't think about these things until they
• 1:05:09
  become, until they become, I guess, muscle memory, you know,
• 1:05:12
  just second nature, which I'm sure which I guess is what's
• 1:05:15
  happening to you when you say, you know, they call action and
• 1:05:18
  then you don't even like remember what happens.
• 1:05:20
  You don't even have to think about it.
• 1:05:21
  That's all muscle memory right at that point.
• 1:05:24
  Yep, exactly right, but I will say that's got me in in trouble
• 1:05:28
  sometimes too. How so?
• 1:05:30
  You know, again, Army the dead, you know, first, you know, first
• 1:05:35
  film, like first the movie run. And I wasn't paying attention.
• 1:05:40
  Like this is this is when I was so in tune with just doing the
• 1:05:45
  stunt that I wasn't in tune with the set, right.
• 1:05:47
  You know, the the set changes so fast.
• 1:05:50
  And if you're not looking, you're you're already Yeah.
• 1:05:55
  So, you know, they move the camera on me, right?
• 1:05:57
  And so I had a specific route and I turn again, like action.
• 1:06:01
  And I'm like, I'm running, I'm doing these jumps and I jump and
• 1:06:04
  I'm like, oh shit, where's the camera, right.
• 1:06:06
  Because, you know, I know how to pose in the air.
• 1:06:08
  And I'm like, where's the camera?
• 1:06:09
  And I land and my boss is right in front of me.
• 1:06:12
  He I land right in front of me. He goes, Tony, do you want to be
• 1:06:16
  in the movie? Oh, yeah.
• 1:06:19
  I was like, yeah, I do. I'm, I'm like naive.
• 1:06:23
  I'm like, what do you mean? Yeah, I do.
• 1:06:25
  He goes, well, camera's over there.
• 1:06:27
  I look behind me and I'm like, I put my head down.
• 1:06:29
  I shake my head. And.
• 1:06:31
  He just like, ah, Tony, you know, is.
• 1:06:35
  That is that a big deal or you're just like, oh, that's
• 1:06:38
  stupid. You know, yes and no.
• 1:06:42
  I take it very personally, right?
• 1:06:44
  Because, you know, I'm out here just trying to chase perfection.
• 1:06:47
  Yeah, a lot of us are, right. And so when your boss is saying
• 1:06:50
  like, is your head is your head the dating kid or no, you're
• 1:06:55
  almost like you, you not only are you letting him down, but
• 1:06:59
  it's like the whole production because what if I was in frame
• 1:07:02
  and that was like a cool shot, you know, like I'm jumping in
• 1:07:05
  the air, then someone like goes right underneath me.
• 1:07:07
  Like, you know, like we're creating something.
• 1:07:09
  And so you're kind of missing an opportunity to create something
• 1:07:12
  really freaking dope, Right? Yeah, Yeah.
• 1:07:14
  And it's, it's just one piece of the puzzle that might have been
• 1:07:18
  missed. Or maybe it, it wouldn't have
• 1:07:19
  mattered at all if I was in frame or not.
• 1:07:22
  But again, we're just, we're just trying to chase this.
• 1:07:25
  This thing did. You do you take, do you take
• 1:07:26
  acting lessons as a stuntman? Like how do you know to get the
• 1:07:32
  camera? Like how do you know to get the
• 1:07:34
  camera? Like get what angle or what
• 1:07:36
  would look cool? Or because I know the actors
• 1:07:38
  like particular in particular, you know, there's acting to and
• 1:07:43
  away from the camera. You know, is there stunts away
• 1:07:45
  into, you know, to and away from the camera.
• 1:07:47
  Yeah, yeah. And how and and who trains you
• 1:07:51
  that that's the coordinator on set.
• 1:07:53
  Again, it's it's not stunts. Stunts schools don't work.
• 1:07:57
  So you almost have to do your diligence before that.
• 1:08:00
  So like if we're trying to punch.
• 1:08:02
  For the first time and never have looked at a camera before.
• 1:08:05
  Oh yeah, that's, that'd be like showing up in school without
• 1:08:08
  your backpack. It's like, like, you know what I
• 1:08:11
  mean? It's like especially like when
• 1:08:15
  you're dealing with with with actors, you know, you don't want
• 1:08:19
  to punch too close to the face, but you also want to make sure
• 1:08:21
  that it sells for camera. So you have to know the angle.
• 1:08:24
  But then actor, they're unpredictable sometimes.
• 1:08:27
  Sometimes they'll forget the choreo, so they might move their
• 1:08:30
  face in the line of that punch. And again, like a millisecond,
• 1:08:33
  you have to change your body in a certain direction so it at
• 1:08:36
  least sells for camera. Yeah, right.
• 1:08:38
  So it's like, you know, you you have to learn how to adapt on
• 1:08:43
  the fly. And what comes with that is
• 1:08:46
  studying your film, but putting your phone up right and punching
• 1:08:50
  at the screen and, and seeing what what body articulation
• 1:08:54
  works and, and and just finding different.
• 1:08:57
  How would you do that? I used to do it every single day
• 1:09:03
  right but now. But now that you know, things
• 1:09:06
  are. Of your experience.
• 1:09:07
  Yeah, my priorities come to a different place now.
• 1:09:12
  It's what am I capturing with the camera.
• 1:09:14
  You know, how do I want my performer to do XY and Z?
• 1:09:18
  But if you're a young performer coming in, you should be doing,
• 1:09:21
  you should be looking at yourself every single day in in
• 1:09:24
  front of a mirror or even on your phone, or you just be
• 1:09:27
  shooting yourself doing different kinds of movements.
• 1:09:31
  At the end of the day, it's just learning how your body moves in
• 1:09:34
  front of the camera at all times because that's that's what.
• 1:09:38
  You're you're very yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:40
  So you're, you're familiar with as you make a motion, what the
• 1:09:45
  motion looks like on the outside.
• 1:09:48
  Yes, Sir. That's really cool.
• 1:09:50
  Yeah, that's really, really cool.
• 1:09:52
  I think about that. I think about that a lot.
• 1:09:54
  I think about how little I'm aware of how I look while I'm
• 1:09:57
  doing things. And like, you know, how not
• 1:09:59
  aware I am, you know, walking the street or your hair's
• 1:10:02
  popping up or, you know, you trip on something or you going
• 1:10:04
  for a jog and what your form looks like, you know, all these
• 1:10:06
  kind of things. Like I always think I it's so
• 1:10:09
  hard, like, yo, because we're so used to just our just receiving
• 1:10:14
  input that we're not used to thinking about what out what
• 1:10:18
  output we're creating, right? You know, I was, I was telling
• 1:10:22
  my brother-in-law yesterday that you and I were going to talk.
• 1:10:24
  You came over to hang out a little bit and we pulled up your
• 1:10:27
  IMDb and you saw that you, you, you did the coordination for a
• 1:10:31
  young boy video and he got all hyped, hyped about that.
• 1:10:34
  I don't know what that meant. I don't know what that meant,
• 1:10:36
  but you know, I don't know who young boy is, but what is it?
• 1:10:40
  What was it? So was this the first time
• 1:10:41
  coordinating, coordinating a fight, You know, I guess a fight
• 1:10:46
  scene or a sun scene? I got to go back, I don't
• 1:10:49
  remember. How long ago was that?
• 1:10:54
  Beats me, brother. I'm sorry.
• 1:10:55
  I don't know. Yeah.
• 1:10:57
  Stick out of you. It's like a memorable like.
• 1:11:01
  You know, for in order to make room for other things, you kind
• 1:11:04
  of kind of discard it. That's so.
• 1:11:06
  Interesting. So you don't even think you
• 1:11:07
  remember a lot of the work that you do.
• 1:11:10
  I mean, yes and no. Like yeah, yes and no.
• 1:11:14
  I just I just by the way it. Makes sense to me.
• 1:11:16
  I, I, I went to, I, you know, I, I, I met someone that listened
• 1:11:20
  to my, that listened to the podcast religiously and, you
• 1:11:25
  know, and we were talking and it's so nice to meet you, so
• 1:11:28
  nice to meet you. And then she like makes a joke
• 1:11:31
  to me that I didn't recognize. Like it sounded familiar, but
• 1:11:36
  like, I didn't know where, like what she was saying, right?
• 1:11:38
  I was like, huh, I was like, what's that from?
• 1:11:42
  So that's your, that's your podcast last week.
• 1:11:44
  You made that joke last week and I'm like, I'm shaking out of
• 1:11:47
  here. I was like, it's so funny, You
• 1:11:49
  know, I was like, I never dreamt in a million years that I'd have
• 1:11:51
  a conversation, a 2 hour, hour and a half conversation that I
• 1:11:55
  just didn't that, that I didn't remember what I was talking
• 1:11:57
  about, you know, So I guess I, I, I, I, I, I, I guess I hear
• 1:12:00
  where you're coming from, man, it's crazy.
• 1:12:02
  What's what So, so what's coming up now?
• 1:12:04
  So you think so you mentioned you want to stop at 3536.
• 1:12:08
  You got, you got, you're 31. You you're taking a little bit
• 1:12:12
  of time off now, you said. Yeah, I mean, right now when
• 1:12:16
  when there's work, I'll go, I'll go to where the work.
• 1:12:18
  Yeah. I've been very grateful to to
• 1:12:21
  create a safe place where, oh, we need Tony because this, this
• 1:12:25
  and this. And I've had a lot of great
• 1:12:27
  friends and and mentors who have put me in positions to just kind
• 1:12:32
  of go where I need to go and, and life.
• 1:12:35
  So you jobs are kind of, so your jobs would be like
• 1:12:38
  hypothetically you'd get a call, I don't know, in a week and
• 1:12:40
  you'd be like, hey, can you come?
• 1:12:41
  Can you come to set for a month and you just hop up on, hop to
• 1:12:46
  Arizona, go there for a month and then come back?
• 1:12:49
  That's right. So that's right, Sir.
• 1:12:52
  Yeah. So it happens, happens all the
• 1:12:53
  time, You know, like I just. I just got called to go to do
• 1:12:58
  something in Pittsburgh and I had to respectfully decline it.
• 1:13:01
  It wasn't because it was last minute.
• 1:13:02
  It's just, it's just because, you know, I had other other
• 1:13:04
  things happening. But it happens so fast, right?
• 1:13:08
  You know? So which is why it's very
• 1:13:09
  important to just kind of stay healthy and always be on your
• 1:13:13
  toes and stay training because you don't know what it's going
• 1:13:15
  to be, you know what I mean? Are you afraid that missing out
• 1:13:17
  on jobs will affect will affect your future or you don't think
• 1:13:21
  like that? You used to be afraid of that.
• 1:13:23
  Yeah, I used to. I think, you know, that's a good
• 1:13:31
  question because you know, again, I just been very
• 1:13:34
  fortunate with, with my colleagues and team mates and I
• 1:13:37
  feel like if it's meant to happen, it's going to happen,
• 1:13:39
  you know, like I used to. I know once I used this word
• 1:13:42
  loosely, like force opportunities, you know, and I
• 1:13:46
  still do, but it's not to the degree it was like I'm dependent
• 1:13:51
  on this opportunity. Yeah.
• 1:13:53
  It's like I will train and I will share my work in in
• 1:13:57
  private. And, you know, if it gets a
• 1:14:00
  bite, great. If it doesn't, then maybe I just
• 1:14:02
  wasn't meant for that job. But to kind of beat yourself up
• 1:14:05
  on, man, I missed this opportunity.
• 1:14:06
  Like I'll never get a call again.
• 1:14:08
  It's like, listen, brother, you've been in the business for
• 1:14:10
  almost 13 years now. Like it's going to be OK.
• 1:14:14
  Yeah, it's really cool. I feel like everybody, yeah,
• 1:14:16
  everybody needs to eat, you know, So it's at the end of the
• 1:14:21
  day, it's it's going to happen regardless if it's your time
• 1:14:23
  grade, If it's not make someone else's, you know, you know,
• 1:14:27
  career. Yeah, yeah, that's OK.
• 1:14:30
  That's really, man, You have a lot of wisdom in your
• 1:14:33
  perspective, man. Seriously, it's really cool.
• 1:14:35
  It's really cool. It feels like it's beyond your
• 1:14:37
  years. Yeah.
• 1:14:38
  It's a shame to say because you'd hope that 30 year olds
• 1:14:40
  would be or 31 year olds would be wise, you know, in general.
• 1:14:44
  But it feels like, you know, I think we live in a world of
• 1:14:48
  delayed adolescence a lot of times.
• 1:14:50
  And I think that's because of delayed responsibility and more
• 1:14:52
  convenience. And, you know, again, I think
• 1:14:56
  discipline and responsibility kind of go hand in hand.
• 1:14:58
  But you know, it's really refreshing to it's really
• 1:15:01
  refreshing to kind of see or hear and talk to you about, you
• 1:15:04
  know, and I kind of hear these very grounded perspectives
• 1:15:06
  because I think that they don't come again.
• 1:15:09
  You're you're the way that you're speaking isn't just human
• 1:15:13
  nature, right? Human nature is kind of selfish,
• 1:15:16
  kind of reflexive, kind of. I need to, I need to preserve
• 1:15:18
  myself and take as much of the cake as I, you know, as I could
• 1:15:21
  possibly get, you know, and you know, and kind of and by
• 1:15:26
  expending the least amount of effort and energy.
• 1:15:28
  And it's really, really cool that you've been, you've been
• 1:15:31
  kind of saying the total opposite, you know, and I and I,
• 1:15:33
  you know, it really means a lot. I really, I really appreciate
• 1:15:36
  that dude. What so you have so so do you.
• 1:15:41
  So I could imagine actually that low, but that lower budget kind
• 1:15:44
  of more have fun with it. Sets are probably more enjoyable
• 1:15:49
  for, you know, for yourself right than something big and
• 1:15:52
  huge and and expensive and, you know, tight and.
• 1:15:57
  Yeah, I mean, again, it comes, it comes with its different
• 1:16:01
  poisons, right? Like, you know, how do I say
• 1:16:04
  when you're with a smaller budget film, right?
• 1:16:07
  You're kind of the guy, right? So I did a lower budget SAG film
• 1:16:17
  called. I actually forgot what it was
• 1:16:19
  called. It's called a professor, right?
• 1:16:22
  What was that? What?
• 1:16:23
  Was that about? It's about this, it's about this
• 1:16:29
  guy who is somewhat delusional of his life, right?
• 1:16:34
  So he's kind of walking through life, pit pity, parting himself
• 1:16:39
  and kind of going through life in a way that's just weird,
• 1:16:44
  awkward and unfulfilling, right. And through the course of this,
• 1:16:50
  of the short film, he actually does something for himself for
• 1:16:53
  once. It sticks up for himself.
• 1:16:55
  And the way that it was, you know, directed the color
• 1:16:59
  changed, you know, it's like you go from this gloomy color in the
• 1:17:02
  beginning to this bright, vibrant yellow color.
• 1:17:06
  And so, you know, it's like a change of events in in himself.
• 1:17:10
  And I got the opportunity to actually direct that.
• 1:17:13
  And, you know, the guys like, hey, like, do it.
• 1:17:15
  Like do whatever you want. Like here's a script, do
• 1:17:18
  whatever you want. And so I took the opportunity.
• 1:17:20
  I just kind of went off and it was during a stage in my life
• 1:17:23
  where it's like, as I'm learning, I'm going like, I like
• 1:17:27
  when I do this. I like when I move the camera a
• 1:17:30
  certain way or I like how, you know, I'm playing with this
• 1:17:34
  little piece of emotion, right? And so those, those smaller
• 1:17:38
  budget films allows me the opportunity to to to re innovate
• 1:17:43
  and kind of go off script right as much with the bigger stuff
• 1:17:49
  like I got to go to Canada to to to help coordinate the boys
• 1:17:56
  under under John Koyama and cool really.
• 1:17:59
  And Matt Righetti. Yeah.
• 1:18:00
  And Vancouver, a little Toronto. Yes, Toronto, cool.
• 1:18:06
  Yeah. And that was cool.
• 1:18:07
  In Vancouver, by the way, I think Vancouver is a little bit
• 1:18:11
  of a cooler city than Toronto is.
• 1:18:12
  So I heard, so I heard. I still have yet to go to the
• 1:18:15
  Cubs instead of Vancouver. I have a lot of great stunt guys
• 1:18:19
  out there who are. Friends.
• 1:18:20
  Oh yeah, you should go. Dude, It's a lot of fun.
• 1:18:22
  Even if you go to Seattle and take a little trip up there,
• 1:18:24
  dude, it's a lot of fun. It's really cool.
• 1:18:26
  Well, if I put the law of attraction into effect, it will
• 1:18:31
  happen fairly soon. I just got to.
• 1:18:34
  Keep me in the loop. Yeah, I mean, of course I will,
• 1:18:39
  but but yeah, yeah. So depends on big budget, small
• 1:18:44
  budget, I want to tackle whatever beast was given to me.
• 1:18:48
  So at the end of the day, I'm going to learn something that I
• 1:18:51
  haven't done before. And I think that's that's the
• 1:18:53
  nature of the beast. You know I.
• 1:18:55
  I'm with you. I, I, I, one thing I've noticed,
• 1:18:57
  I think a bit a big thing, a big theme that's happened in my life
• 1:19:01
  is that I have not really fit into like big, Big Lots of parts
• 1:19:07
  systems, you know, like, you know, you could call it
• 1:19:09
  bureaucracies or corporate or whatever.
• 1:19:11
  Like, you know, like I, I don't fit into like big systems.
• 1:19:15
  I operate much better in like smaller, more intimate, wear a
• 1:19:19
  lot of hats, you know, mate, whatever you make, make it
• 1:19:21
  happen yourself kind of environments.
• 1:19:23
  And I used to think that was like a massive flaw by myself.
• 1:19:25
  And I used to beat myself up about it because like I could
• 1:19:27
  never get like a corporate job working for a bank or working
• 1:19:30
  for a accounting firm or a law firm or something like that, you
• 1:19:33
  know, or, or even in terms of like the podcast world, right?
• 1:19:35
  Like, you know, I'm watching like, you know, these podcasts,
• 1:19:37
  I'm like, you know, they have, like, you know, these huge teams
• 1:19:40
  and the way that they're overproduced and, you know, they
• 1:19:42
  put all these keywords into their, into, you know, into
• 1:19:45
  their captions and their names and the episodes.
• 1:19:47
  And like, and like they, they, they turn them into like
• 1:19:49
  corporatized podcasts, you know, or these like enormous
• 1:19:52
  productions. And I just love the grassroots.
• 1:19:55
  I just love the authenticity that comes from just like
• 1:19:58
  reaching out to someone. Hey, let's get on, let's do
• 1:20:00
  this. Yeah, let's do this.
• 1:20:01
  You have a real conversation with talented people with great
• 1:20:04
  experience. And you just.
• 1:20:06
  And it grows by itself because you have that space to make it
• 1:20:10
  grow, as opposed to trying to fit yourself into someone else's
• 1:20:12
  system. You know, and so, so when you,
• 1:20:16
  when you describe it like that, you know, I think of, I think of
• 1:20:19
  my a lot, a lot of those, you know, scenarios in my life in
• 1:20:22
  the same exact way. The school I teach at barely
• 1:20:24
  gave me a curriculum. They're like, you're an English
• 1:20:26
  teacher, you know, good luck, have fun, you know, and like,
• 1:20:29
  you know, the teacher will check in principal check in, like what
• 1:20:32
  are you guys working on? I'll tell him what I'm working
• 1:20:34
  on. And you know, sometimes it's
• 1:20:36
  better than others. Sometimes he's happier than
• 1:20:37
  other times, but you know, if I got, if I, if I taught in a
• 1:20:41
  school where they'd like, you have to read The Great Gatsby,
• 1:20:44
  you know, from this, this to this week and that week to that
• 1:20:46
  week, and then you have a book assignment that week to that
• 1:20:47
  week. I'm like, I don't want to teach.
• 1:20:49
  This is crap. You know, it's not crap, but it
• 1:20:51
  doesn't work for me. You know, I take it back.
• 1:20:54
  I don't mean to say like negative like that, but it
• 1:20:56
  doesn't work for me. So I can kind of I I totally
• 1:20:59
  understand where you're coming from in terms of having those
• 1:21:02
  lower, but like having a little bit more that creative freedom,
• 1:21:04
  even though it might be lower budget or not as glamorous, I
• 1:21:08
  guess, or glitzy, right? Really cool, man.
• 1:21:11
  I hope, I hope, I hope you start directing.
• 1:21:13
  I hope you keep acting. I hope you, I hope you keep on
• 1:21:16
  doing all this great stuff, man, because hearing about all this
• 1:21:20
  is really, really exciting and it's really, really cool.
• 1:21:22
  And I think that I think that I, I learned a ton.
• 1:21:25
  I'm sure the audience is, you know, is gonna learn a ton from
• 1:21:27
  this episode. It's really cool and bring a
• 1:21:29
  whole new appreciation to the whole art of, of film, you know,
• 1:21:32
  Wow. That's good gratitude.
• 1:21:35
  Thank you so much. Of course, Andrew, thank you so
• 1:21:37
  much for coming on. I really appreciate the time and
• 1:21:40
  I look forward to being in touch.
• 1:21:41
  Man. I want to hear, I want to hear
• 1:21:42
  how you think how things are going on.
• 1:21:44
  And I want to see what you're working on.
• 1:21:45
  And I want to hear, you know, just see what's what's going on
• 1:21:49
  because I think this is this is really, really cool.
• 1:21:51
  And I'm sure you're going to accomplish incredible,
• 1:21:53
  incredible things that you haven't already.
• 1:21:56
  But you have a whole lifetime ahead of you.
• 1:21:59
  So dude, thank you so much for coming on and keep it up man.
• 1:22:02
  Dang brother, you make me blush. Oh, sorry about that dude, I
• 1:22:05
  don't mean to do that. Again, you know, thank you so
• 1:22:08
  much. Thank.
• 1:22:09
  You so much, Sir. All right.
• 1:22:10
  Bye everyone.