Latest / Real State / Grid to Growth: Energy Policy & Economic Opportunity, with Delegate Clay Riley

Transcript

Grid to Growth: Energy Policy & Economic Opportunity, with Delegate Clay Riley · Real State

0:00
We've got it. We've got energy. We know how to deliver.
0:03
So if you want energy and you want economic success, come to the state of West Virginia.
0:08
This is Real State, a podcast from CSG South. Join us as we talk with policymakers and public leaders
0:19
shaping state-level decisions across the South and explore how ideas move from policy to real impact.
0:28
[Music]
0:32
Good morning and welcome to Real State. I'm your host, Lindsey Gray.
0:37
Across the country, states are navigating a rapidly evolving energy landscape,
0:43
balancing reliability, costs, and economic competitiveness at a time of significant change.
0:49
Here in West Virginia, energy has long been foundational to the state's economy,
0:55
workforce, and identity. As lawmakers returned to Charleston for the 2026 legislative session,
1:02
conversations around energy infrastructure, innovation, and economic development took a renewed
1:09
urgency. Not just for West Virginia, but for energy-producing states across the country and the
1:15
South. Today, I'm joined by West Virginia delegate Clay Riley to discuss how state leaders are
1:22
approaching these challenges, the role of energy policy in shaping economic opportunity,
1:28
and what decisions being made this session could mean for the state's long-term future.
1:35
Delegate Riley, thank you for being with us today. We appreciate you taking the time during
1:40
your busy legislative session. Good morning, Lindsey. It's always great to be with you.
1:44
Thanks so much. So let's jump right in. Let's not waste any time here. We're going to have the
1:50
momentum of energy today in our conversation. So from where you sit today, how would you describe
1:56
West Virginia's current energy landscape and why energy policy continues to play such a central
2:02
role in the state's future? I want to take the second part first. West Virginia has always been
2:09
energy state. Whether it was coal, back in the day, we mined the coal. The forge is still the
2:14
built the bridge, the one, the war. And that's something that we have known and grown up with.
2:18
I mean, I was a coal miner when I worked in the coal mines to pay my way through college.
2:23
So it's part of our identity. It's part of who we are. So being an energy state is just really
2:29
fundamental in the fabric and the culture of West Virginia. And we don't shy away from that.
2:34
And so this session, we've been working on a lot of policies to try to continue to strengthen that
2:39
so that we can continue to power America as we always have.
2:42
Wonderful. Across the southern region, we're seeing states think about energy, not just in
2:48
terms of production, but as a broader competitiveness issue affecting economic growth,
2:55
three reliability and long term planning. So as the 2026 session is underway in many states,
3:02
how are lawmakers in West Virginia approaching energy policy in that broader context?
3:07
Well, it's funny that you say that and that is it has been an evolution within the south
3:12
to look at energy as part of an economic development package. But in West Virginia,
3:16
we have always done that. So a couple of things that we have done is I talked about us previously
3:21
being a net exporter of energy, we always have. So when we look at a coal natural gas and energy policy,
3:29
it always focuses around how can we create jobs, how can we generate additional revenue,
3:35
how can we continue to support the economic development? Last year, we wrote a significant bill
3:40
on a microgrid and data center bill, which isn't the first microgrid bill we've done. We did it
3:45
years ago. But what we saw was an opportunity that as you look at energy with across the south,
3:53
we saw that the electric grid was being built out. So then the natural progression is to look
3:57
at natural gas because that's the easiest place to turn up power. We knew that the pipelines were being
4:03
subscribed, fully subscribed. So then we said, where's the next step? Well, the next step is to
4:08
go back to the native source. And that's where we are. We sit on an ocean of natural gas,
4:13
the Marcellus, Utica, Shell, lie right underneath West Virginia, including the Rogersville Shell.
4:19
So we said, we should facilitate the ability to do economic development, to generate the power,
4:26
the search for electrons. And I don't think it stops with data centers because what you're going
4:31
to see is data centers will consume some of this energy who's going to be left out,
4:37
manufacturing. So manufacturers as they begin to re-sure back into the United States,
4:43
they also will be on a search for electrons. So when we look at what we're doing this year,
4:48
we're continuing to look at how we increase generation. So by changing the policies regarding
4:55
review of Public Service Commission and Generation, we're looking at how West Virginia interacts
5:00
with the rest of PJM. So we're taking a comprehensive look at it from whether it's a local perspective,
5:06
state perspective, or even within the RTO and how we look at the interconnections nationally. So
5:12
it's been a very broad approach to our solutions, but it's one that we're laser focused off on in
5:19
our jobs first opportunity everywhere agenda. And I can see that, you know, that bigger picture
5:25
sets the states nicely because when we zoom out, many of the challenges states are facing aren't
5:31
about a single bill. They're about priorities and trade-offs, as we know. So stepping back,
5:38
just what are the core challenges lawmakers are really trying to solve this session when it comes
5:43
to energy and infrastructure? So one of the things, as I mentioned earlier, with
5:49
generation. So you see the need for generation. So how do you adequately and quickly and responsibly
5:58
locate generating sites? So as I said earlier in the opening, we were a coal state, we've been a coal
6:03
state, but we've had some coal retirements on our coal, coal-fired, coal-fired, power plants. So when we
6:09
look at new generation opportunities, it makes complete sense to look at what some of the retired
6:15
facilities, because the transmission is already there, the PJ interconnection is, PJM interconnection
6:21
has already been studied. So to look at it and say, how can we facilitate early economic growth?
6:27
And then you look at it from a perspective of the locality. And they're already used to
6:33
having the power plant there. They have the workforce who has worked there for decades. So when you have
6:39
the sites in the location, you have the workforce, and you have the infrastructure there, it really makes
6:46
for a nice opportunity. So we've really been focused on that. Additionally, we have some abandoned
6:51
mine lands and some brown fields that we can look to reclaim to have smart reuse of existing
6:57
disturbed land. So if we can repurpose mine lands into using whether it's solar power or nuclear
7:05
or gas-fired power plants or coal plants. So being able to use a previously disturbed site
7:12
that is now a brown field that needs remediated, that really uses your land wisely. And I think very
7:18
environmentally sound. Policy makers are often talking about the need to balance affordability,
7:24
reliability, and long-term economic growth. And it does sound by what you were just talking about.
7:30
There's this all the above energy approach that West Virginia is certainly entertaining and
7:37
proposing and exploring, looking into. So in practice, how does that balance actually show up when
7:43
legislative decisions are being made? >>What's very challenging, because no one has the right answer.
7:48
No one has this solution. If it was easy, it'd already be done and people would be modeling after it.
7:53
So how do we balance that approach is when you look from an all of the above energy approach,
8:00
you also have to look at new and creative ways to balance whether it's the environmental,
8:07
the affordability, the economic growth. So I'll give you an example. One of the things that we have is
8:13
that our Public Service Commission, we want to begin to study what's the differences between
8:19
cost of service regulation and performance based regulation. And can those types of innovative ideas
8:27
begin to deal with affordability long-term? Because if you think about where COSR came from,
8:33
it was we were trying to build out the electric network. Well most of it's built and people have
8:38
electricity pretty much in every hollow in West Virginia. So well in every hollow they have it.
8:44
So when you begin to look at modernizing the grid for resiliency and reliability, I think it can't
8:52
just be about cost of service because yeah you should have a return on debt and return on equity.
8:57
But how about some performance based metrics where you could have a shared savings model that
9:02
we know if a utility operates efficiently they can get a little bit more money in their pocket
9:08
and send a little bit more money back to the ratepayers and minimize that long-term
9:13
increases in costs. So I think it's trying to take unique perspectives think a little bit
9:20
differently about the markets and how they interact. So that's really the approach that we've taken.
9:26
Energy is a complex issue. Lots of layers, lots of stakeholders and at times it can seem divisive.
9:36
So but there are also a lot of areas for alignment. So where are you seeing the strongest
9:42
agreement across committees or across the aisle when it comes to energy and economic development
9:48
priorities in West Virginia? Well I would say the alignment is best when we agree that they're
9:55
both important. We have to attack both sides of that issue. So whether it's growing our economy with
10:04
additional jobs and having that workforce that can you know that understands power plants and
10:10
understands how to operate them understands how to work on them. So that's obviously one
10:14
tentacle but you can't put the burden on the back of the citizens. So understanding that we have to
10:21
be cognizant of when we look at policy and we look how cost are allocated and we look at what changes
10:27
we're looking to regulation of how not only it encourages economic development but the brunt and
10:33
the bearing of that does not end up on the ratepayers and the citizens of West Virginia.
10:39
For example in the data center bill you know it was a little bit controversial but we put that the
10:44
high-end high-load capacity users will need to bear the brunt bear the cost of the expansion of
10:51
the grid. So which is becoming a little bit more commonplace nowadays but it wasn't last year.
10:57
It was a newer concept. So I think we've been very cognizant of that and I think we'll continue to do that.
11:03
And you're right I've seen this session more discussion about the high high users kind of bearing
11:11
the brunt of that cost and that was not part of the discussion last sessions. Our states are figuring
11:16
out these kind of pressure points these issues and certainly responding and pretty quickly I would
11:20
say. So I agree with you we're seeing that trend among multiple southern states at least that we
11:27
are tracking. So one place where those priorities really come in to focus is energy infrastructure.
11:33
So especially how projects move from ideas to approval. So across the south we're hearing a lot
11:40
about energy infrastructure approval and the role of the Public Service Commission or state utility
11:46
regulatory regulators. Why is this conversation particularly timely for West Virginia right now?
11:52
Well it's particularly timely right now because as I mentioned earlier we are a net exporter and the
11:58
PGM grid is growing in load and how those costs are allocated by the regulated utilities because West
12:06
Virginia is a regulated state making sure that these regulated utilities who operate across multiple
12:12
states and multiple jurisdictions. There's not cost shifting to the citizens of West Virginia for
12:19
loads and demands in other states while we are a good team player and we are part of PGM.
12:24
You know the PSEs role is to make sure that cost are appropriately allocated and it is very
12:30
complex and it is very whether you're looking at generation transmission distribution all a lot
12:36
different and so it is very timely as we've gone through some changes in the Public Service Commission
12:42
over the past decade with new members coming on and a new administration in the executive branch.
12:48
It becomes a critical focus to the state of West Virginia.
12:51
And from a policy perspective when lawmakers look at infrastructure approval and oversight
12:57
what do you think that right balance between accountability and ensuring that the state can move
13:02
projects forward efficiently? What do you think that right balance is?
13:05
You know I think that having deadlines on people for accountability and that doesn't only mean
13:12
making a decision from the Public Service Commission but it also comes from the public to intervene
13:18
and to participate in the process it comes from the utilities and the developers to provide adequate
13:24
and appropriate and timely information and accurate information so that you can really allow
13:31
the regulatory commission to do their job. And I think when you look as a policymaker we should be
13:38
setting the direction and the execution and the review of that should come from the Public Service
13:42
Commission. So those are the key things and when we look at policies you know we don't
13:47
approve the rules of the Public Service Commission however we can govern what kind of time frame
13:53
that they have. And you know one of those specific policies shorted it from 200 or 400 days to 270 days.
14:01
And the reason being is it was a pretty small investment when you're looking at doing a re-conductoring
14:07
and that's just an example of a project but we need to be able to move a lot of the things we can
14:13
agree upon and the projects we can agree upon off the table so that the more complex the more
14:20
controversial projects can get the appropriate attention and you just don't come up the works with
14:26
a bunch of stuff. How do those infrastructure and regulatory discussions or decisions connect
14:33
to bigger picture concerns like grid reliability system resilience and preparing for future
14:39
industrial demands? You know I think that from a policy makers team point those all end up
14:47
making that decision from from rate impacts but also what type of infrastructure they put in
14:54
you know one of the things I know that CSG has been very interested in in the state of West Virginia
14:58
has been looking at our advanced transmission technologies and how can we over-lash or re-conductor
15:05
without having to acquire a new right away without having to tear out the existing structures so that
15:11
we can move it quickly without impacting our citizens and promote the economic development.
15:17
So in it's trying to force some introduction of new concepts into the regulatory authorities thinking
15:24
you know one of the things that the regulatory authority likes is predictability and consistency
15:30
and well that's a precedent that's how we've rolled that's how we've always rolled and that's great
15:34
because it worked for 50 70 years but these demands and the demands and the requests for resiliency
15:42
and reliability I mean these high end users high capacity users they want five nine reliability
15:48
so it requires to think a little bit differently and how you've always done things.
15:53
It's this naturally leads into a conversation around innovation so many states are asking
16:02
about how to modernize their systems without disrupting disrupting what already is working and you
16:09
mentioned ATTs or advanced transmission technologies so we're seeing growing interest around
16:15
the South are Southern states in grid modernization and transmission innovation so for listeners who
16:21
aren't engineers how should policymakers think about advanced transmission technologies also known
16:26
as ATTs for anybody that's new kind of to that but as a policy tool rather than a technical concept what
16:33
just how should our listeners kind of think about that without getting to in the weeds the two
16:39
technical around it. You know I always try to break it down into something that people deal with
16:45
every day and I'll talk about it very often in a situation that I will liken it to roads so for
16:53
example let's talk about a dynamic line rating well that means that you're able to move that's
16:59
kind of like the express lane on the HOV so there's already a road there and traffic is already
17:05
moving across that line and electricity is already moving across that line but they're going to make
17:10
an HOV line HOV high occupancy vehicle lane just so you can move a little bit more so that's one
17:17
way that you can talk about like dynamic line rating you can also talk about advanced transmission
17:22
technologies like advanced conductors of saying well instead of building a two lane back road it's
17:29
curvy we're just going to overlay the exact same area but with a four lane highway so that we're not
17:36
impacting additional areas and new areas but we're improving the existing disturbances so you're
17:42
going from a two lane road to a four lane highway and those are the things that we should be looking
17:48
at of how we can repurpose the existing infrastructure to really approve efficiencies that is a great
17:55
visual and no one has ever explained ATTs to me quite that way and so I appreciate that you did
18:01
that because I do think that using roads as a parallel gives just the everyday person a quick
18:07
understanding of that technology that modernization that could be a reality in some of our states
18:12
and many of the southern states are talking about it right now you know one thing I would add to that
18:16
lensing when they talk about hot spots in the grid that's really congestion so you have a stoplight
18:23
that doesn't that isn't time right so then traffic backs up in when schools letting out in a certain
18:30
area because they didn't predict that at three o'clock that there would be a bunch of buses in the
18:35
wood back it up so when they talk about hot spots in the network it's really congestion it works the
18:40
exact same way as our road system so you can think about when there's a line break well that's just
18:45
like a wreck in the road it backs things up so you got to have that secondary route so when you're
18:50
talking about improving resiliency and reliability it's that secondary route and how can technologies
18:57
like ATTs help energy-producing states like West Virginia modernize their systems while still building
19:03
on their existing strengths so when you talk about ATTs in the infrastructure let's move more
19:09
electricity out of the state of West Virginia we have the source we can produce and generate it and
19:15
when you look at some of the traditional conductors whether it's line loss it's heating it's sagging
19:22
the lines you can improve that with some of the new advanced conductors because now we can move a
19:27
whole lot more to those places that where that where it's needed so they already have some of the
19:32
infrastructure maybe in other states where along these lines so if we can prevent from building
19:38
generation in places that aren't used to it or don't have the workforce that allows us to to
19:45
provide what we can really provide really well so that the other infrastructure that is there
19:51
can benefit that community as well as West Virginia. An innovation and infrastructure are important
19:57
but ultimately energy policy also shows up in very practical economic development decisions
20:03
so in economic development conversations workforce and incentives often get most of the attention
20:10
but energy is a foundational piece so when lawmakers think about economic development over the long
20:16
term how does the intersection of energy reliability and cost shape the conditions the state is
20:23
trying to create for business growth. Well as we talked about earlier the demand for the race for
20:30
electrons is out driving the cost and the incentives and that sort of thing so when we look at economic
20:38
development we know that companies they're not buying a location they're buying a timeline and I
20:44
saw I saw I saw as that that you know it's somewhere around a billion dollars a month for some of
20:49
the AI data centers so time matters so we look at it from a philosophy of what's the timeline how can
20:57
how can we help them succeed because every day really does make a significant impact and so
21:04
yeah incentives are there and when you have the workforce that you can say you know this this
21:09
gentleman or this lady they were mechanic in the coma but that works on a natural gas turbine
21:14
just as well and matter of fact we'll go ahead and offer the training and pay for it to upskill
21:20
that employee so now you have a ready workforce and it is there and prepared for you plus we're
21:27
looking at site development and site readiness to say we know it's environmentally cleared we know
21:33
that you can move in and move quickly and so that's how we the approach we've taken from an
21:38
economic development perspective because it's really it really is I mean site selection it's not
21:44
really site selection it starts with site elimination you know if I give you 10 glasses of
21:48
eliminating tell me which one you like best the first the errors do is move the one you don't like it all
21:53
so it's a site elimination because in the end they're buying a timeline that is such an
21:59
interesting perspective how can energy policy be structured to support both rural communities
22:05
and larger economic development hubs across west Virginia we know that has to be a balance
22:10
and and how are you addressing that so it really is a challenge is west Virginia has a lot of
22:17
hollers and we have to make sure that we have vegetation management prioritized but we also have
22:25
that big infrastructure that can serve those major areas so when we look at it we try to break it
22:32
up into to generation transmission distribution so that we can look at them from an individual
22:38
component because you know a large data center or a large high end user high load user they're not as
22:44
much worried about the distribution but they are worried about the generation and the transmission
22:49
conversely myself who lives up a hollah I'm worried about what's my distribution system like so
22:56
making sure that we're working with the utilities to be able to do both at the same time is really
23:02
critical because if you forget one you're going to ruin the other so that balance is just adding to
23:09
the complexities that we've talked about but certainly can't be forgotten in our southern states being
23:15
that there's several higher economic generating you know hubs and then of course our rural communities
23:22
that serve a very important role in so many of our states so when you look across the south whether
23:28
it's Texas focusing on grid reliability Georgia emphasizing long term planning or in
23:34
North Carolina's work in transmission how does West Virginia's approach compare from your perspective?
23:40
You know it's it's funny because I think we align in a lot of places and I think the reason we align
23:47
in a lot of places and how we approach it is because through CSG South we've built a lot of
23:52
relationships that we can talk to those policy makers and I can pick up and make a phone call
23:58
to North Carolina or to Georgia or to Tennessee or to Texas and say hey how that work out for you
24:05
and what lesson did you learn? I remember I would early on discussing natural gas development in Oklahoma
24:12
and as part of cows and so when we look at those types of things what we do is we say what worked
24:20
and how can we make it better? So we we follow you know like a good coach we follow things other
24:26
coaches that work you know if you have a play that works you got to run to play but then run to play
24:31
and make it better so that you know somebody else can learn so we take that approach of trying to
24:36
be very collaborative and understanding where somebody else has already cut the brush on the path
24:42
that we want to follow that we don't make mistakes that others have made.
24:46
That's really where regional approaches can add value because states across the south are grappling
24:53
with so many of the same energy questions no one state is navigating those challenges alone
24:59
and policy makers having opportunities to learn from one another becomes especially important so
25:05
we appreciate your collaborations with other states and participating in several CSG
25:12
opportunities and navigating those complex energy and infrastructure decisions.
25:20
So based on what you're seeing right now where do you see opportunities for states to collaborate
25:25
regionally on energy rather than tackling those challenges independently?
25:29
You know I think as we as I look across the PGM grid it is somewhere you know that is where I would
25:36
start so one of the things I've done is is contacted a few of my colleagues in Virginia right because
25:42
they've been through this before they had the Virginia Clean Economy Act so understanding
25:48
what their approach is and how we can be complementary to it whether it's battery energy storage systems
25:55
we're looking at how we can grow some of our existing generation plants that feed into Virginia
26:02
so that also talking about how these caps on the capacity auction which help other states
26:09
but they hurt West Virginia as a net as a net exporter in a fixed resource community those caps
26:17
which are around 330 I believe right now but expect maybe during this emergency auction to go to
26:23
$530 you know that hurts West Virginia because we can sell the energy but then we get capped at
26:31
what needs for the capacity auction so understanding how you know it is a very complex issue and we
26:38
what we do in West Virginia matters to what happens in Virginia and conversely so you know I think
26:44
that's the approach that we take in understanding that you know we are in a RTO in a regional transmission
26:50
organization that whatever we do impacts everyone else and looking beyond this legislative session
26:57
what decisions being made today do you think will matter most for West Virginia's energy
27:04
and economic landscape you have five ten years from now well I think understanding that you cannot
27:10
impact energy policy overnight every decision that we need to make needs to look on a long horizon
27:18
because that's the only way you're really going to sustain the development I mean I was looking at a
27:23
report where by 2050 the increase in power is unbelievable so recognizing that the policies we
27:33
should be talking about while I would love to fix increase in electric rates today for people tomorrow
27:40
we have to look at what is going to be five years ten years down the road and we have to put in
27:46
things in the into place such as how do you consider changes to the integrated resource plan which
27:53
is not due to 2030 we have a piece of legislation that contemplates what does that look like in 2030 that
28:00
we're discussing right now similarly with the types of regulations that are out there we have to
28:05
continue to advance and push forward and innovative ideas that really sustain it long term because
28:13
if we continue to do what we've always done we're going to continue to get what we've always got
28:18
and as we start to wrap up I want to come back to kind of the broader tone of energy policy
28:24
we know that and we've kind of already talked about this that energy policy can sometimes become
28:30
politically charged so from your experience what helps keep these conversations during the legislative
28:36
process can ground it in outcomes and focused on that long term impact for the state of West Virginia
28:41
two things first you need to know the people that you disagree with and you got to listen to what
28:48
their perspective is because as you begin to understand their perspective and where they're coming from
28:54
especially if you get to know them personally it makes you way less combative because in the
28:59
end I don't know of any delegate that sits in the West Virginia legislature who comes in to say
29:05
I want to do a bad job today and I want to hurt West Virginia's I don't care which side of
29:09
there are other from everyone wants to once good results they want to be successful so understanding
29:16
that where they come from and what they're trying to achieve is the same place of where I start
29:22
and where I come and from what I want to achieve so if I begin then to understand their perspective
29:28
and their approach I then can begin to understand where they're going to be right you know I'm an
29:35
engineer and for those that don't know that you know engineers they have to be egotistical enough
29:43
to assume they're right but humble enough to assume they're wrong and if you're humble enough
29:49
to assume you're wrong and you have convictions in the path that you want to go you can tend to
29:55
blend that bipartisan support understanding the different perspectives question yourself about
30:02
what can make the policy better and sort of take that personal feeling that confliction out of
30:09
it and then really focus on what is the best result for the citizens of West Virginia?
30:14
I love that kind of removing the barriers of party lines bringing civility in and having those
30:21
conversations and knowing you might not leave the conversations in full agreement but keeping that
30:26
relationship still intact and continuing to move policy forward in your states that's wonderful
30:33
probably great advice for any newer legislator to also hear so building on that just a little bit
30:40
but is there any one takeaway you'd want listeners to have about West Virginia or know about
30:46
the rest of Virginia's approach specifically to energy and economic development right now just what
30:51
would that be that you'd want? Folks from West Virginia or others that are watching the state of
30:56
West Virginia when it comes to energy and economic development this year. We've got it. We've got energy
31:02
we know how to deliver it so if you want energy and you want economic success come to the state of
31:08
West Virginia. Other states may look at it is a very challenging subject we embrace it as I said in
31:14
the beginning it is in the fabric of who we are it is in the culture of how we were raised you know
31:21
understanding that the power plant that I look at of my high school window that I still see every day
31:28
from my front porch you know it's just who we are it's part of what we do and I think we can help
31:33
deliver for businesses for other states in the in the region and for our citizens of the state of
31:40
West Virginia so we are very welcoming now we do it right we do it environmentally sound we make sure
31:47
that the fundamentals are there but we look for a way to get to yes and I think that's the one thing
31:52
that I would say is if you need power and you need energy come to say to West Virginia. Before we
31:58
close I want to step back from policy for a moment and end with a question we're asking all of our
32:03
guests here on real estate what's the best piece of professional advice you've ever received
32:08
and how is it shaping how you're leading and the decisions you're making today.
32:12
Well that's a fantastic question I think the best piece of advice that I've ever received is that
32:18
every piece of legislation every bill every issue is important to someone and we serve everyone
32:25
and so while it may not be your key issue it's your responsibility to understand how it impacts
32:32
that's the citizens of the state that you represent and it's important to somebody it could be
32:37
something that you think is extremely trivial and well that's crazy why are we even dealing with this
32:42
but I can tell you it's causing a problem in somebody's lives and we volunteer for public service and
32:48
we say we're here to help and we want to make sure that your life is better today than the day we
32:53
took the oath so you should focus on it you should pay attention you should think about it and yeah
32:59
it's a lot of work but you signed up for it. I love that thank you delegate Riley thank you for
33:05
taking the time to share your perspective and for the work you're doing on behalf of West Virginia
33:11
we truly appreciate the conversation today and to our listeners thank you for joining us we look
33:16
forward to continuing these conversations where we keep it real about leadership policy and the ideas
33:23
shaping the state government across the country you can find more episodes and policy conversations
33:30
at csg salt dot org i'm Lindsey Gray let's keep it real thank you for joining us today on real
33:38
state where we keep it real about what really matters
33:47
[Music]