Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Ahsoka with Assistant Costume Designer, Elissa “E” Alcala

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Ahsoka with Assistant Costume Designer, Elissa “E” Alcala · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:12
He made so much of Natasha's armor so that she could also
0:17
practice in it, and we did that with all of the characters so
0:20
that they had practice costume to practice their software.
0:25
Practice costume. Never heard that one before.
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Yeah, which is always crazy because they needed to start
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practicing, you know, months in advance.
0:33
Yeah, hello, and welcome to the Art of Costume podcast.
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I am your host, Spencer Williams.
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And thank you so much for joining us for another bonus
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episode. Hey, costume nerds, thank you so
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much for being here. Today's episode is a special one
0:58
as we were talking about the hit Star Wars series on Disney Plus.
1:02
Ahsoka, which is perhaps one of my favorite Star Wars series
1:06
which is actually high bar 'cause I'm a big Star Wars fan.
1:09
But before we get into it, let's start with the summary.
1:13
After the fall of the Galactic Empire, former Jedi Knight
1:16
Ahsoka Tano investigates an emerging threat to a vulnerable
1:20
Galaxy. Ahsoka joins with her own former
1:23
apprentice, Sabine Ren. Another character is from the
1:26
animated series Star Wars Rebels to prevent Grand Emerald Throne,
1:31
who's been stranded in another Galaxy, from returning and
1:34
uniting the remnants of the Empire against the New Republic.
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And that is Ahsoka. Let's dive behind the costumes.
1:42
This series was created by Dave Filoni with costumes designed by
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our friend whom I miss every day, Shawna Tarpczyk.
1:51
Shawna's notable work included Mighty Morphin Power Rangers,
1:55
Firefly Angel, The Cabin in the Woods, The Book of Boba Fett,
2:00
and of course, The Mandalorian. Seasons 2:00 and 3:00 Throughout
2:04
her career, Shawna was nominated for five CDG Awards, winning
2:08
two, and was nominated for four Emmys, including one just this
2:12
year for her work on Ahsoka alongside assistant costume
2:16
designer Elisa Ocala and costume supervisor Devin Patterson.
2:21
And as most of you know, Shawna passed away in October of last
2:27
year, which has really been a devastating loss for so many
2:30
people, her family, friends, and her crew, which she also
2:33
considered family. It's been hard.
2:36
So obviously we love Shawna here at the Art of Costume podcast.
2:41
She was very supportive of what Elizabeth Daniel and I were
2:46
doing on this podcast as it was a way for her to connect
2:49
directly with the fans like yourself to talk about Star Wars
2:53
and costumes, which she truly loved.
2:56
And I miss her dearly. And I'm just so grateful really,
3:00
to all of you listening for helping make the Art of Costume
3:03
podcast what it is, because without all of you and your
3:07
support, I don't know that I would have been able to meet
3:10
Shawna. We had some great conversations
3:14
both on and off camera, talking not just about costumes, but
3:17
just about creativity, family, nature.
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Even Shauna was just a one-of-a-kind human.
3:24
We miss her terribly. I miss her terribly, but I take
3:27
comfort knowing that her legacy lives on through her work and
3:31
her incredible crew. Which leads me to today's
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episode. I am beyond excited to say that
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I had a chance to talk with E Alcala, Assistant Costume
3:41
Designer on Ahsoka and a Mandalorian who worked alongside
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Shauna very closely. I've been lucky to get to know E
3:48
over this past year, whom is someone I deeply admire.
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With the Emmys coming up, I knew I had to get into the costumes
3:55
of Ahsoka and he was very gracious to take the time to
3:58
come on a podcast talk about the costumes of Ahsoka, including
4:02
Sabine, Hera, the Witches of Dathomir, which is my absolute
4:06
favorite Star Wars lore, Thrawn, and of course, talking about
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working with Shawna. I do need to make one note.
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We were having some connectivity issues when we chatted that day.
4:18
Technology was just not on our side.
4:21
But it was such an incredible conversation and I'm so excited
4:24
to share it with you all. Join us after the break for my
4:27
conversation with Elisa Okala. I'm very excited to talk to you
4:56
about Ahsoka and learn more about your experience.
4:59
You know, obviously Shawna was a friend of the podcast.
5:03
She was on twice. We actually did three
5:06
interviews, but she was on the podcast twice.
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And one of the things I loved about her was that she was a
5:11
true nerd, and I could just feel it vibrating off of her every
5:15
time we would talk. Like she she was more of a nerd
5:17
than I think anyone on this team was.
5:20
And knowing you, I kind of get the same vibe.
5:22
You definitely feel like you understand Star Wars and you
5:24
just love science fiction, whatnot.
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So tell me a little bit more about your passion for Star
5:29
Wars, or maybe just storytelling in general.
5:32
So, yeah, I actually grew up in this industry.
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My dad is a director. So I I grew up on sets and I
5:42
knew from pretty much a very young age that that's what I
5:46
wanted to do. I wanted to be behind the
5:48
scenes, you know, helping tell stories.
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So I knew from a pretty young age that I wanted to go into
5:56
costume design. So from there I kind of did
6:01
anything that I could do to surround myself in that world.
6:06
For college, I actually went and studied fashion design in New
6:09
York at Parsons, messed around with the idea of maybe going
6:13
into fashion, but then decided that where my fashion line was
6:17
in costumes. So after graduating in 2012, I
6:23
moved out to LA and have never looked back and joined the
6:27
industry. And I've, I guess, been in the
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industry for, yeah, a little over 10 years.
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So I worked as a costumer, obviously started out as APA,
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but I've done a little bit of everything.
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I first got into Seven O 5 as a shopper and then from there I've
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worked site, I've worked trailer, I've worked principal
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cast, I've worked background, done a little bit of everything.
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And then, you know, in the past like four years I jumped up to
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ACD and then more recently with the help of Shawna actually was
7:02
Co designer and then designer. So yeah.
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That's awesome. What a great trajectory.
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And clearly you're a little bit of a nerd too.
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I mean, you and we are both surrounded by Star Wars stuff.
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I mean, mine is just like right above me.
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It's not that much compared to what you have.
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So you're a big nerd I assume? Oh, huge nerd growing up.
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I mean the like, I always loved anime.
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I've always loved comic books. You know, some of my favorite
7:32
movies growing up that I think when I saw the movies I was
7:35
like, Oh my God, I can make something like that.
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It was like, you know, The Fifth Element and then Legend.
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And so I definitely have always geared towards sci-fi fantasy.
7:45
That has been my lifelong dream. Back in the in the day we had a
7:51
latest and like it's basically a laser disc was like the pre
7:56
early DVD's. They're as big as like a vinyl
7:59
record. And on laserdisc, we actually
8:03
owned the original trilogy because my dad purchased it.
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We actually didn't own too many laserdisc and we didn't own a
8:09
lot that I was allowed to actually watch because they were
8:12
for older audiences, you know, rated R and whatnot.
8:15
So the Star Wars was one of the only ones.
8:19
It was Star Wars and Indiana Jones later in life, like I kind
8:23
of winded up into the cosplay community, but more so for anime
8:28
when I was younger. So I would build costumes based
8:31
off of some of my favorite anime characters.
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And then I actually met a group of friends who also work in the
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industry and love Star Wars just as much as I do, and we would
8:44
make Star Wars costumes together.
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So I actually cosplayed Star Wars before I worked for
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Lucasfilms. So I did AI had a Padme Amidala
8:55
costume and I also cosplayed as Kylo Ren.
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So yeah, I've I'm a die hard Star Wars fan.
9:05
So getting to work on the show, I remember getting that phone
9:09
call. I was on another job and it was
9:11
during COVID actually. So everything had just come back
9:15
and it was the supervisor at the time being like being like, hi,
9:19
I can't tell you what the show is, but like, it's like, are you
9:23
comfortable being in the dirt and being outside and like
9:27
comfortable with the sci-fi? And I was just like, Oh my God.
9:30
Because I knew Mandalorian was filming out of Manhattan Beach
9:33
Studios. But I never dreamed that I would
9:37
get on it. And I wanted to so bad.
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And I kept like reaching out to people that I knew who were
9:42
working on it. And I was like, please, please,
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please, please, like I will do anything.
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Just let me work on this show. It's a, it's a lifelong dream.
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And I got the call and I remember just being like, please
9:53
hold and like pausing the phone and going and screaming outside
9:57
because I knew you were calling me to work on a Lucasfilms
10:01
project. And sure enough, it winded up
10:03
actually being the Book of Boba Fett.
10:04
So. Yeah.
10:05
Wow. Wow, that.
10:07
That's amazing. Can you imagine if it's just
10:08
like some actually just random film that took place in the
10:11
dirt? I'm so glad it worked out.
10:13
Yeah. Yeah.
10:14
No, Very relatable. And also Fifth Element was also
10:16
like my vice that started me in costume also too.
10:20
So I definitely relate. So like you mentioned, you work
10:24
with Shawna on the Book of Boba Fett, The Mandalorian season
10:26
three, and then Ahsoka. And if I remember correctly,
10:30
prep on Ahsoka started I believe during Mando 3.
10:34
And So what was that like? Where were you all excited?
10:37
It sounds like a nightmare actually.
10:39
But of course she always painted it as it worked out.
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But. We did.
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Shawna was always definitely, it was so funny.
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The one thing that I admired most about Shawna was always
10:51
just her ability to like be like, you know, never.
10:55
She would get overwhelmed, but in a sense of she'd be like, OK,
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like this is what we're doing and we're going to do it and
11:00
we're going to go for it and like jump in.
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Whereas like I was always the one who was more like can we,
11:07
can we say no, like no an option.
11:10
She's like, we'll have a choice, Yeah.
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And. But with her, she would always
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the thing that I, I think that I admired the most about her and
11:20
like, I admired so many things, but it was her ability to just
11:24
take things on and be like, we can do this.
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I know we can. And it was like with doing both
11:31
Mando and Ahsoka at the same time and having to juggle both
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of them, I was just like, Oh my gosh, like, I don't, I don't
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know how we're going to do this. And she would just be like,
11:40
well, we're going to do it. And I was like, OK, we're going
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to do it. You're right, we're just going
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to do it and that's what we did. But she always just be like in
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her not being Master Yoda but basically being Master Yoda
11:53
being like why we don't say no, there is no no, we just do it.
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I was like, okay, I got it. So we supervisors at one time
12:06
because we had one that was finishing up Mando and then we
12:08
had another one that started up on Ahsoka.
12:13
And so that really helps because they were able to manage sort of
12:16
like the costumers that were coming in and out and also
12:20
starting our work room. So we would have people who
12:24
would literally like on Tuesday working on Mando come to work on
12:30
Wednesday, but be on Ahsoka. So it was like we would time it
12:34
out to being like, OK, we can let this specialty person start
12:38
on Ahsoka and we'll leave some of it.
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So it was all just about, we had again made two amazing
12:44
supervisors that were disabled to juggle people at the correct
12:48
time of when we needed it. And obviously a lot of that was
12:51
also communication between Shawna and them.
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And then we had actually a key customer that we started who
13:00
helped also organize the workroom who was just strictly
13:04
on Ahsoka. She day played with us on Mando
13:07
on set, but she wasn't a full timer on Mando, so she was able
13:11
to jump up to being a full time. So it's all just about finding
13:14
the people and finding capable people, because when you work in
13:17
on a show that's custom made is is you got to find people who
13:21
are good at being willing to rise to the occasion.
13:25
Because even though there's a job description and you kind of
13:29
know what your job is going to be, it is never just that.
13:32
And it's always being able to adapt and on the turn of like,
13:37
you know, just being able to adapt so quickly.
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And so it was always about finding those people that could
13:44
adapt and could change and just we're really good at their jobs.
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So we really lucked out with finding an amazing crew and
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Shawna was always really good about meeting people and being
13:56
like, I know this person can handle this.
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And then like just taking chances and being like, you're
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going to do this job because I know you can do this job.
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And believing in US. And that alone giving us the
14:07
ability to then do the job is just having someone believe in
14:11
you. Yeah, she really had a lot of
14:13
trust in the people around her because you're all essentially
14:15
creating these fantasy worlds. So, yeah, you could have a job
14:18
description, but I mean, how can you explain what you're going to
14:21
do in a job description? It's it's just not possible.
14:25
So let's get to the series now. First of all, it was brilliant
14:28
and some of my favorite stars ever.
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I've been a big Ahsoka fan forever.
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I watch Clone Wars, Rebels, all that.
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And I was, you know, obviously very stoked.
14:37
We obviously have to start with Rosario Dawson, who plays
14:40
Ahsoka, who has, you know, this character's gone through quite a
14:43
bit. There's an elegance to her, but
14:44
she's she sees a lot of action in this series.
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And we also have this trajectory where we've have a character
14:52
that's gone from this animated background, you know, all the
14:54
way back to the Clone Wars to what we have now.
14:56
So between yourself, Shawna, Rosario, how did you all come up
15:00
with the costumes for this character and in this new
15:03
series? So with Ahsoka's grey costume
15:09
that was established back in season 2 of Mando and it was
15:14
really important that she was still in the same costume.
15:19
She obviously got to get her I guess what we everyone likes to
15:24
finally call her her Ahsoka, the white costume this season.
15:27
And she also had a few other little costume changes here and
15:31
there, like she had her PJ look and like he had a few other
15:35
things. And Rosario was so, you know,
15:38
such a big part of making decisions on all of those
15:43
pieces. And in fact, because Season 2
15:47
and then when she was wearing this costume, she did want to
15:52
update her Gray look. So her Gray look did get a few
15:56
updates of just making it more user friendly for her to be able
16:00
to do the stunts that she knew she was needing to do.
16:04
You know, we we re cut some of the the back line, which you
16:09
don't really you get to see sometimes, but it's not a focal
16:13
feature. Just so she had more movement
16:15
all around. So Rosario definitely would she
16:18
always, it was so much fun to have in the fittings because she
16:22
was very involved in every aspect of her costume and her
16:27
and Shawna would talk through every piece of it.
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And she, you know, Rosario wanted to touch the fabrics and
16:34
she wanted to see kind of where Shawna's thought was going.
16:38
But at the same time, Rosario respected Shauna and Shauna's
16:43
vision and Dave's vision and you know, so she would give her
16:48
opinions of being like, oh, maybe could we have, you know,
16:51
could the back line do this or can we have it more cut like
16:54
this so I can move better with her armor?
16:57
Also, it was making adjustments to where like where it hit on
17:01
her so she could always make sure that she had it wasn't
17:04
hurting her wrists and stuff. So Rosario was very in tune with
17:09
what she needed the costume to do for her in order for her to
17:14
fully take on being Ahsoka. And so she definitely at the
17:22
beginning of the season, we went over everything.
17:24
And then also with her various changes that we had with her
17:29
through the season because she actually, she had, you know, a
17:32
few because she had her spacesuit suit and the Soka, the
17:35
white and her little PJ look. And she definitely SAT with us
17:41
and talked with us. And you know, Shawna or Dave
17:45
would do a quick sketch and like Rosario would just always be
17:49
involved. And definitely it, it was, it
17:53
was always fun for me to get to watch the actors and Shawna kind
17:58
of like communicating. And then Shawna, she always had
18:02
this way of understanding people without actually communicating.
18:08
So she like, no, no, I know what you want.
18:10
I know exactly what it is you need.
18:12
And then she would just do it. And then like there'd be times
18:14
where the actor be like, yeah, no, you're right.
18:16
That is exactly what I. Need yeah, so many good
18:20
costumes. I love the space suit.
18:22
That's a particular favorite of mine.
18:23
But I mean, like you said, Ahsoka to white Lord of the
18:26
Rings nerd. So I mean, I definitely really
18:29
loved and appreciate that one for sure.
18:32
But Speaking of rebels, we also got to see two other characters
18:35
that came back into came into the live action world.
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For example, we have a Sabine Wren, who I absolutely love, and
18:43
then General Harrison Doula certified badass, our favorite
18:47
space bomb. So what was like working with
18:50
these two characters, especially when some of them like Sabine is
18:53
an actual artist. So that's that's a lot of fun, I
18:56
must imagine. Yeah.
18:58
No, it was that was the thing with Ahsoka that I think
19:02
everyone knew going into it that we were bringing to life
19:09
animated fan favorite characters and just sort of this like
19:14
wanting to make sure while through the whole process that
19:17
we would be doing not only the fans proud, but Dave proud, but
19:22
also, you know, having the actors be involved and, you
19:27
know, just wanting it to just be this kind of, you know,
19:31
beautiful thing of, you know, again, bringing animated
19:36
characters just to life. And it's also taking what is
19:41
animated and figuring out what is practical and then
19:45
translating that into the real world.
19:49
So and Dave was definitely evolved involved in all of this
19:54
process. And Shawna was constantly like
19:57
texting him or emailing him questions about, you know,
20:00
different things of like, should we like what what artwork was
20:04
Sabine, do you want us to incorporate in the artwork
20:07
that's Sabine draws on her own armor changes.
20:10
So it was always, we always were including Steve and and asking,
20:16
you know, Dave and Doug and everyone these characters
20:19
bringing them to life was we had a lot of people involved.
20:24
And also changing them a little bit from obviously their
20:27
animated costumes, because obviously you have to make it
20:32
practical for human beings to be able to wear it.
20:36
So Natasha definitely, we brought her in, we had her try
20:42
on hand. We wanted to make a Sabine's
20:49
costume, you know, just movement mainly it was for movement.
20:54
And so her her costume winded up being split up into two.
20:58
So it's it's pants and a top. It's actually it's more than
21:01
that, but it's yes, it's very involved.
21:03
Costume Suns was very involved with us and it made it, it was
21:08
really awesome because Suns actually where they practice and
21:11
they would always next door to where our costume department
21:14
was. So we would always be able to be
21:16
like, hey, can you send so and so over?
21:19
We want to try this armor on to make sure that they can do the
21:21
movements that they're needing to do or we would run over there
21:24
with like a mold for them to try it on to see if they could do
21:27
the movements while they were rehearsing.
21:29
So we were very involved with Suns and it was great because
21:35
stunts obviously wanted to be involved and I think and Shawna
21:39
also wanted to make sure that they everything was practical
21:44
that we could do, they could do everything and not be hindered
21:48
because of the costume. That was very important to
21:51
Shawna was that they needed everything in their costumes.
21:56
So, and I obviously involved, you know, including the actors
22:01
and having them wear practices when they were rehearsing.
22:06
So we made so much of Natasha's armor so that she could also
22:12
practice in it. And we did that with all of the
22:14
characters so that they had a practice costume to practice
22:19
their soft work in when. They were practice costume.
22:22
Never heard that one before. Which is always crazy because
22:26
they we needed to start practicing, you know, months in
22:28
advance. So it was always like, OK, cool,
22:30
we could get you this because it was, we were always on a
22:34
deadline and it always felt like we were never ahead and we were
22:38
always just on schedule. Even if we tried to get ahead,
22:42
it was always chasing that deadline.
22:45
But yeah. And then with Hera, she was
22:48
just, it was so much fun to bring that costume to life.
22:52
And we definitely working with Mary Elizabeth, she definitely
22:59
had, you know, a lot of input and how she wants to fit.
23:03
And it's stuff like that that you take into consideration and
23:08
when or like how the top should fit.
23:10
And then like you can see like the jacket, like are we going to
23:14
do a crop jacket or are we going to do a longer jacket?
23:16
So it's just doing fittings and including the actors and letting
23:20
them see the thing. And also like we would try on
23:25
the costume with the actors. And then finally, you always saw
23:30
that moment where sometimes we would try on pieces and you
23:33
could tell they couldn't see the character yet.
23:35
But eventually we would get a stage where it would be out of
23:39
actual fabrics or we had actually armor pieces or we
23:42
would have little things here and there that we would put on
23:45
them. And you would see it in their
23:46
eyes being like, oh, I am, I'm, I'm the character now.
23:50
And that was a lot of fun. And I remember, I, I do remember
23:53
that happening with Mary Elizabeth in one of the fittings
23:58
that we did with her. And she just like looking in the
24:01
mirror and being like, well, Yep, I'm the character now.
24:05
So that's a lot of fun. That's so cool, I can't even
24:09
imagine. I would love to just be there
24:11
for that moment, but we have to talk about Part 5, Shadow
24:16
Warrior. This episode was absolutely
24:19
brilliant as it took us back to The Clone Wars to see young
24:23
Ahsoka and the one and only Hayden Christensen as Anakin
24:26
Skywalker. I mean, I could feel the
24:29
universe just like collectively gasp watching this episode when
24:32
it came out and we also got to see the clones again, which was
24:36
so much fun. I have to imagine this must have
24:38
been a massive episode for you, Shawna, the team.
24:41
I just watching it back the other day I was like, I can't
24:44
imagine. Yeah, this episode is the
24:46
episode that almost broke all of us.
24:48
And it's. A good way.
24:51
It's just we knew, you know, from the beginning, you know,
24:54
reading the scripts and watching sort of the previz that this
24:58
episode was going to be something really special.
25:02
And we knew that we had to get these costumes right because
25:06
these are the costumes you see in this episode are pretty much
25:11
literal translations from animation of around with some of
25:18
the colors in Hayden's outfit. But we for the most part, it is
25:25
true to what you saw in the animation.
25:28
And also figuring again, figuring out how these armor
25:31
pieces actually work, especially with like Hayden's like his
25:35
shoulder pieces and like how he was supposed to do the
25:38
movements. So that involved a lot of we had
25:42
to make him a piece that he could practice in so he could
25:46
make sure he could do everything.
25:48
And I just remember not even we that piece took a while to get
25:54
right. And I, it just was like holding
25:56
breath they have of being like, please, please, please, please,
25:59
please work. And, you know, and if something
26:02
needed minor adjustments, then, you know, we would get the notes
26:05
and then we would fix it. But working with Hayden and
26:09
Ariana was absolutely amazing. Ariana it was just she I yeah,
26:17
special place in my heart for her.
26:19
She was so much fun to work with and watching her become Ahsoka
26:24
and then her getting to spend time also a little bit with
26:27
Rosario so she could figure out Rosario's movements for the
26:30
character. And also encapsulating young
26:33
Ahsoka from the animation. She was just so brilliant and
26:37
got it so quickly. And like, I just remember even
26:39
in our first fitting being like, Oh my gosh, she is young Ahsoka
26:43
and being and so excited to get for her to get to try these
26:48
costumes on and, and it was really, really cool.
26:51
And then her playing the two ages too.
26:54
So we have like subtle differences in the costumes to
26:58
try to help tell that story as well, because it's obviously the
27:01
same actor and she's two different ages.
27:03
So we had like slightly taller shoes and one of them and we
27:07
gave her a more feminine cut in her older version, whereas it's,
27:12
you know, slightly younger cut in the first version version of
27:15
her costume. And then this is the first time
27:19
ever in Star Wars history that we have actually live action
27:23
cloneers. We made those.
27:26
Those are not animated. I became a clone expert on this
27:31
show because it was necessary, because in the, you know, in the
27:38
Clone Wars, the animated series, you have different clones.
27:41
And so it was having to figure out is it phase one, is it phase
27:45
two? Like which clone are we having?
27:47
And we, I had to become an expert and we because we have
27:52
both phase one and phase two stormtroopers.
27:56
So it was, yeah, it was pretty cool.
28:00
So and it was easy bringing on to life and it was a lot of it
28:06
was a lot of fun, but it was it was a it was a big episode and
28:11
having to have all this done and it was insane, but I think it
28:16
did. It turned out to be an
28:17
absolutely amazing episode that I think everyone is very, very,
28:22
very proud of so. They absolutely should be.
28:25
I mean, I could rewatch this episode over and over and over.
28:27
I just remember watching it at home whenever it came out and
28:30
being like, Oh my gosh, is that like an Ahsoka clone trooper?
28:33
Oh my gosh, is that Rex? Like, Oh my gosh, it's like just
28:35
that entire 45 minutes I had to lay down after I was exhausted,
28:40
so. No, I mean, this is this
28:42
episode. I think again, like I said, it
28:44
almost broke all of us. Like I cried a few times on this
28:48
episode because it was it was a lot and not not just out of like
28:52
it was. It was a combination of just
28:54
emotions of bringing one just bring getting to brainless to
28:57
life and getting to work, getting to be there and see all
29:02
of this. It was very emotional, but also
29:04
it was it was, it was a big episode.
29:08
And like I, you know, there were times where we were like, Oh my
29:11
God, are we actually going to make this deadline?
29:13
Not be quite sure and working till the last possible minute
29:17
and then bringing it to set and just yeah, it was it was a
29:21
really big episode. I actually, the day we filmed
29:24
the scene, I remember crying over in the corner because we
29:27
did it and I was just so emotional just like we did it
29:32
and like going and having to cry in the corner because I was just
29:35
like so happy and so relieved and also just like in awe of how
29:40
like I knew it looked good, but like seeing it all come
29:42
together, it was just very emotional so.
29:45
Yeah, wow. I it's I can't even imagine
29:48
those feelings. I gotta say my favorite Star
29:52
Wars lore has been and always will be the Night Sisters and
29:55
Dathomir. I think they're so cool, so
29:57
badass. And I'm trying to remember when
29:59
it was by interviewed Shawna, I want to say as a round book of
30:03
Boba Fett time we were talking about bringing to life in Ahsoka
30:07
and you know all these characters from the animated
30:10
series. It must have been Mandalorian
30:12
because we talked about Bogatan also.
30:14
And I remember I never try to get spoilers out of anyone.
30:17
But for some reason this day I was feeling a little spicy.
30:20
And I said something like like, if only we could just see like
30:24
the Night Sisters or something one day.
30:26
And Shawna like kind of looked at me and like kind of looked
30:28
away and like started to hide A smile a little bit.
30:32
And I knew I was like, oh, they're doing the Night sisters.
30:34
Like she totally blew it. So I only know if we kept on the
30:38
podcast, but it was so funny to me.
30:40
So then cut to Ahsoka and I see the Night Sisters.
30:44
So cool, so worth it. I totally love the textures, the
30:47
textiles, this, this was exciting.
30:51
I mean, bring to life these characters.
30:53
What was Do you remember what the process was like and finding
30:56
these fabrics? It was definitely a process.
31:00
Well, these were big characters to bring to life, obviously,
31:05
because, you know, I think there are a lot of actually a lot of
31:07
people really love the Night Sisters and the lore that
31:11
surrounds them. But we got sketches from Doug
31:18
and then always from there with and we got inspiration from Dave
31:23
because Dave always has his like jumping off point that he would
31:28
always tell Shawna and our team. And so from the inspirations and
31:32
from the sketches that we would get from Doug, Shawna then
31:35
always would kind of like rethink how like, okay, this is
31:39
this is our starting point. So how then do we go from there?
31:43
And, and she knew that she wanted to have lots and lots of
31:47
layers and lots of textures and that it would be different
31:50
fabrics. And one of the big things that
31:54
was huge throughout the season was also this.
31:59
She wanted the fabrics to flow, and so did Dave.
32:03
The fabrics had to be able to move in the wind.
32:06
So we couldn't pick heavy, heavy fabrics.
32:10
The witches are a lot of different silks.
32:15
And we also got a whole bunch of the silks pleated.
32:20
And then it was also a lot of sort of figuring out these like
32:27
patterns, like herring bone patterns of, you know, because
32:30
we would take strips and then our tailors would be on the
32:33
mannequins figuring out these shapes.
32:35
And then they all had different hats and it was really funny
32:40
because I think some of our tailors, like we, we put them
32:42
out of their comfort zone a little bit with these characters
32:45
because like, you know, you have your, your custom made people
32:50
and you do have hat makers. But at the time we were asking
32:55
our tailors to help us figure out how these were going to
32:57
incorporate into the costume. So they had to think about big
32:59
picture. So they'd be mocking up these
33:01
hats. And then we would have our, we
33:04
had a, a hat person who then did actually fabricate these as
33:08
well, but they had had to work together with our cutter fitters
33:13
in order to make sure everything flowed and all of it made sense
33:18
and that it all worked together. And it was really, really cool.
33:22
But we also had our, our fabric shopper, Kevin, I just will
33:27
never forget. He had to keep going out to try
33:30
to find the fabric because Shawna, it was very well versed
33:35
in fabrics and she knew what she wanted.
33:38
And it's always, it's like that with some people where it was
33:40
like you could never, you knew what you wanted and it was just
33:44
having to try to find it. And she would always tell Kevin
33:47
what she wanted. But the problem is, is, is
33:49
finding that in the real world is just like, right, Sometimes
33:54
you couldn't. And so it would be finding the
33:56
fabric that she wanted in like white or beige and then having
34:01
to dye it. So a lot of this fabric actually
34:03
got dyed. It didn't even, it wasn't even
34:06
red to start with. We actually dyed it to the
34:08
colors that Shawna wanted with, you know, our, our ager Dyer,
34:13
Carol did an absolutely amazing job of, you know, Shawna would
34:17
tell her what colour she'd want and then she would, she would
34:21
dye it. And then they would have
34:22
meetings and then either it was right or she would have to, you
34:25
know, dye it again. And it was a lot, so much
34:29
communication and Shawna working hand in hand with all of our,
34:33
you know, specialty people, our tailors and our ager dyers.
34:37
But yeah. And these, I mean, it's insane
34:41
how many layers that these are and it is, it's just strips of
34:44
fabric and then put back together and then they all flow
34:51
so nicely. And I just remember in our
34:53
fittings, we would have the fan, they would have to move things
34:58
so that it could flow and it could move.
35:00
And so we had the fan and the fitting and I would sit there on
35:03
the ground or Shawna would take it.
35:04
And Shawna would be like moving the fan around to make sure that
35:07
the dress flow is We did that with quite a few of the costumes
35:11
this season. But we always had a fan in the
35:14
fitting room because, you know, we we wanted to make sure that
35:17
we could give Dave his flowing moment.
35:19
Yeah. We're serious about that flow.
35:21
Yeah, I love that. Well, it was totally worth it.
35:27
And shout out to Kevin, too. I know how hard that shopping
35:30
fabric shopping job is. We've talked about before, and I
35:33
just. I couldn't do it.
35:34
I couldn't imagine. So, yeah, it came out.
35:38
Speaking of some rather sinister costumes, I've been waiting to
35:41
talk to you about some of these costumes we saw on Grand Admiral
35:45
Throng's ship. I mean, time of being a
35:48
stormtrooper expert. Now we have some really
35:52
terrifying undead stormtroopers. I don't know how to describe
35:56
them, but they're terrifying. I love the gold in them.
35:59
And then of course, we have Grand Emerald Thronbeck, which
36:02
he's absolutely terrifying. I mean, take us back.
36:05
I know you must have had a hand. And the gold in the
36:08
Stormtroopers. Oh, everyone on our crew winded
36:11
up having to help put these guys together.
36:14
I keep these guys. We literally, I will not forget,
36:19
we worked up. They worked, I don't know they
36:22
they worked. They had a call time.
36:24
I don't I think their call time was slightly later in the day,
36:28
but I will never forget that a group of us stayed late into the
36:33
night just finishing these guys up because there was we had a
36:37
lot. We made all of these.
36:39
I think we made God did we have 40 of them.
36:43
We made and we each piece has the Kinsuki, which is the gold
36:50
and they all actually have like they got dremeled out and then
36:54
we put actual gold leafing into them and then each of them had
36:57
to get the red put on them. And we all, including Shawna, we
37:02
were all there just finishing and, and, or packing these up
37:07
because like, I don't know if you've ever had to pack a
37:09
stormtrooper, but it is, it takes talent.
37:14
And it's like putting together a puzzle because they all got
37:18
packed in boxes. The thing got taken to set and
37:21
our, where our warehouse is isn't where set is.
37:24
So Transpo would have to come and pick them up and then go and
37:27
drop them off and our set kids would have to get them set up.
37:30
And it's it's just a huge process.
37:33
And just packing them alone took us hours.
37:38
And then you unpack them to get them dressed just like.
37:45
Oh yeah, no, thank you. But you know, we did it and
37:50
Frederick and Geo, shout out to Frederick and Geo.
37:52
But they figured out all of it. And all of these have numbers in
37:56
them. So we knew where all the pieces
37:58
went back to. And so it's like putting back
38:00
together a puzzle piece and they all, everything was labeled
38:04
beautifully and got delivered to sight.
38:06
And yeah, but it was, that was a that was a process.
38:11
And Dave was actually, we got, again, we got the sketches from
38:15
Doug and Dave and Dave wanted to make sure that these guys were
38:20
actually, it wasn't visual effects.
38:23
It was actually done on to the troopers.
38:27
And so again, we took all of these stormtrooper pieces and
38:31
our specialty team, for months, we're just dremeling into them
38:36
and then aiming them and then adding the gold leafing and then
38:40
also aging them because they are, they had to be dirty.
38:44
And then we had to do all of the fittings.
38:47
Every single one of these got a fitting.
38:49
And it was, yeah, it was insane. And it just shows you that we
38:56
had an amazing crew because we were able to do this and we got
39:00
everything into bins and we got it there.
39:03
We got everyone dressed. And it was.
39:06
Yeah, it was a lie. It's a lot, it's brilliant, but
39:10
I just, yeah, it takes an army to build an army.
39:14
It literally, it took an army to build these guys and it also
39:18
took an army to dress these guys.
39:19
We had so many set costumers and like shout out, shout out to
39:23
like my main set crew and always jumping in and helping dress
39:28
these guys. But we would have to hire day
39:30
players who shout to our day players as well for just jumping
39:34
in and being willing to learn something new day of.
39:37
So yeah. What a scary task.
39:42
Yes, I know. And that's the thing too is you
39:45
wouldn't always, because with how secret everything had to be
39:49
hush, hush. It was like you wouldn't know
39:50
what you were getting into. They wouldn't tell you what you
39:53
were going to work on. So it was like we had a group of
39:56
day players. We kept a but for a day like
40:00
this, yeah, more people. So we had to bring in other
40:03
people that, you know, I think came in and they were just like,
40:07
whoa. But you know, they all would
40:09
jump in. And yeah, so it was a lot.
40:16
Then with Thrawn, his costume, we actually had pieces of his
40:21
costume made pretty early on because we had to do so much
40:25
testing with him with getting the color on the skin right.
40:30
And then also with makeup, we worked hand in hand with
40:33
Christina and her team because we were trying to figure out
40:38
what fabric the blue like she would figure out, she would try
40:42
out different paints and we would put it on someone and then
40:44
we would put our fabric on. And so we would have a collar
40:48
and trying to figure out how the the blue paint wouldn't because
40:52
he's wearing white and he's blue.
40:54
So it's like you would always put blue paint, But we had to
40:57
figure out the best, you know, combo of fabric and, you know,
41:02
paint and white would work the best together.
41:06
And then also for us of having if we, because we would have to
41:09
like wash the colors and stuff of being like, what's the
41:11
easiest to get out and what fabric can we use?
41:14
But we did wind up using, you know, the traditional Star Wars
41:21
seating fabric that all of Star Wars has pretty much used the
41:25
same company. And we got it from them and it
41:30
was in like it was white. And then we we had to also
41:34
figure out like taking it from like stark white and then
41:37
figuring out what levels. So like over dying it and taking
41:40
it and doing all of that stuff. So it all worked together.
41:43
So it was, it was a very big process of working hand in hand
41:46
with not only like the DP but also Chris getting him together.
41:52
We also had to figure out a way to make it to where we we were
41:56
trying to figure out a way to do detachable colors so that we
41:59
could switch out the colors really easily if we needed to.
42:03
It's it's so fun to look at. And I just got a shout out the
42:06
aging and dying breakdown crew because I love how just suddenly
42:10
his uniform is just clearly falling apart.
42:12
He's been wearing it for a while.
42:14
And then I mean, the breakdown of the stormtrooper uniforms.
42:17
I mean, honestly, they're incredible.
42:21
No, that was something that was really big for Shauna.
42:25
Is is working hand in hand with our age or Dyer and with our
42:30
specialty team. Is this making this practical as
42:32
well of like telling the story through aging and dying?
42:36
It's like sometimes you look at someone wearing a costume and it
42:40
is it looks brand new, but it's supposed to look brand new.
42:43
But with Shauna, none of the costumes in this world, in Star
42:47
Wars especially should she never believed that they should look
42:51
brand new, like they just came off a rack.
42:54
She wanted them to look at that lived in look of like not having
43:00
it be perfect. And it's like obviously with a
43:03
character like Thrawn, who is a meticulous, you know, creature
43:09
of like wanting things to be perfect.
43:11
He didn't, you know, after being on this planet for so many
43:16
years, it's like he didn't necessarily have the resources
43:19
to make sure his costume stayed in this sort of Immaculate
43:22
condition. But he would have done
43:25
impossible to keep it perfect to the best of his ability, which
43:30
is why we have that storytelling with the age of having, you
43:34
know, him having to have, you know, possibly him or you know,
43:37
one of his subordinates fixing little pieces here and there.
43:41
But for the most part, it being still this sort of perfect
43:44
costume. But with these like little just
43:47
hell tell signs of it being worn for years and not being able
43:52
cleaned and or cleaned to his like their best ability but not
43:56
having access to like being able to switch suits every day.
44:00
So. You almost feel bad for Admiral
44:02
Throne for like a hot 2nd, just like a little bit.
44:07
So the final character I want to talk about Baylin Skull, who
44:10
became a fan favorite character played by the late, great Ray
44:14
Stevenson. I love this costume because it
44:16
had a bit of darkness to it. It's very structured, but also
44:20
felt reminiscent to, you know, the Jedi order that we know and
44:23
love. And just honestly, if I were to
44:25
pick a uniform, I'd be wearing what Baylin was wearing because
44:29
it's so badass. But what was it like working
44:31
with Ray Stevenson and developing this costume?
44:35
Well, Ray was such a joy. He was so funny and was always
44:40
just such a presence everywhere. He was in a sense of like, you
44:44
know, the dude is a big dude. He's like 65 and he's he's also
44:50
just this like such a kind hearted soul and like always had
44:55
nice things to say and wanted to check and how you were doing and
44:59
was always playing. You know, it was like he would
45:02
always be playing like dance music and this is always just
45:07
living, living his life to the fullest and like just being so
45:12
much fun to be around. And Shawna and him.
45:15
It was like in that fitting, it was like they would be giggling
45:19
and like just having so much fun.
45:23
And it was like with him too. It was like when we gave him his
45:27
Jedi robes, he like immediately put them on and was like
45:30
twirling around with it and being like he fun and like Sean
45:35
showing him with the fan that it could still move and like he
45:39
just had so much fun in those fittings.
45:42
He was such he was involved a lot in his costume and like he
45:47
wanted to make sure that it like told a story about who his
45:52
character was and like he and that was something I think that
45:55
Shawna also loved doing, was telling stories in the costume
45:59
that in a show you might not actually be able to see, but the
46:04
actors knew it was there and they would help come up with
46:08
like the reasoning of why it was there.
46:10
So it would be special to the actor and the actor.
46:12
It would give them something to playoff of of knowing that
46:16
there's like in his specifically he has in his back and on his in
46:22
on the front of it and in the within the own the braids,
46:26
there's the stone that Ray really wanted to incorporate in
46:30
to his costume. It's a space stone and so we
46:34
actually it's moldavite And so we actually ordered some
46:38
moldavite and like he ring and we couldn't you know it we and
46:45
then like taking the moldavite and having our specialty team
46:47
because obviously they also have to do stunts in this.
46:50
So we can't have real stones necessarily like on the costume
46:54
just in case they fall on it. So it was taking the moldavite
46:56
and then making you know, stones out of, you know, either resin
47:02
or out of plastic. So if they did fall on it, it
47:04
wouldn't hurt. And then we did have pieces that
47:07
had the actual stones in it. So when he wouldn't be fighting,
47:10
if he was just standing there, he could wear his actual ring
47:13
that had a real moldavite stone on it and stuff like that.
47:16
So we had these stones throughout his costume and he
47:21
was very like excited about incorporating that.
47:25
And then he was also the one that like we originally his
47:28
costume was only supposed to be like the sort of black and I and
47:33
then he wanted he he works also Ray with and Shawna.
47:38
They worked with Dave of like having this sort of you can tell
47:41
it in the picture you have he's this sort of like green
47:44
overtone. And it's like this idea of just
47:47
like that. That's the color his costume
47:49
kind of aged was. This has green, and you can see
47:55
it all pieces throughout the show definitely being green.
47:58
But I think a lot of people sometimes at first glance just
48:01
think it's black, but it's not. It has this green overlay on it.
48:05
So it's pretty cool. Yeah.
48:08
And their characters, their costumes were from the
48:10
beginning, like getting. This is one of the ones where we
48:14
did get sketch sketches from Doug.
48:17
That and Doug works hand in hand with Dave, but Dave also, it was
48:20
really important I think for Dave for on this costume to give
48:24
us his own little sketches. So he would give Shawna these
48:28
little sketches of kind of what he was thinking of where his
48:30
inspo lied, lied with these characters.
48:34
So we knew pretty much from the beginning what these characters
48:37
were supposed to look like. But then it was finding the
48:40
little details and making them special to both Ray and Ivana.
48:46
And it was it was really cool. And the some of the they're
48:50
they're two of my favorite costumes.
48:53
Like you said, they they're reminiscent of Jedi.
48:55
So it's it's, I don't know, there's there's depth to both of
48:59
these characters. And they were both Ivana and Ray
49:02
were just so much fun to work with.
49:05
And they were also both just so excited for their costumes and
49:10
getting to put them on and wearing them and loving their
49:14
costumes to the point that, you know, they'd have breaks
49:16
sometimes and they wouldn't take them off.
49:18
And it was so it was, yeah. It they they were a lot of fun.
49:24
Yeah, I mean, why would you want to take these costumes off?
49:27
They are absolutely incredible. So I mean, don't blame them.
49:32
This has been great. I love talking about this
49:35
series. It's incredible.
49:36
And I think everyone who worked on it should be super proud.
49:39
It's a it's a masterpiece to me. It's probably one of my favorite
49:43
Star Wars, not just shows, but like even it's in the realm of
49:46
the movies too. It's one of my favorite pieces
49:49
of Star Wars content. So I appreciate you appreciate
49:53
the team, but of course, you're here.
49:56
And you know, I knew Shawna quite well just from having her
49:59
on a podcast. I thought maybe we could talk
50:01
about Shawna just for a little bit as well, too.
50:04
So I mean, let's talk about Shawna.
50:06
How did the two of you meet? So after I got that phone call
50:09
that I mentioned in the beginning, I winded up being a
50:12
day player on Book of Boba Fett. And I remember showing up to
50:18
their first day of shooting with background and, and it was very
50:23
well organized. And the thing was though is, is
50:27
some is she established all of her costumes.
50:31
Most designers do do that, but she also very adamant in
50:35
establishing every single one of the background people and she
50:39
wanted to be there for that on set day of.
50:43
And she I don't remember quite what happened that day, but for
50:47
some reason, all of a sudden we needed to add some scarves and
50:51
some layers to the characters that had already had fittings
50:55
and they didn't have scarves or layers.
50:57
Like I don't remember what the note was, but for some reason it
51:00
came back that they all needed something, something else on
51:03
them. And so it was just this kind of
51:06
like, you know, fight or flight moment.
51:09
Her main team was busy with, you know, all of the principals
51:14
because it was a really big day on site.
51:16
And they were there too. But I remember their one of her
51:20
keys of just being like, Oh my God, here's a bag of scrim,
51:24
which is what we called our bags of fabric.
51:27
And they were like, can you please just go like add layers
51:30
onto these people? And I was like, sure, why not?
51:33
And it's like working on something like Star Wars is
51:37
really intimidating in a sense of like, you don't want to mess
51:40
this up. And there's rules and Shawna had
51:42
we had rules we established. Like I think one of the first
51:45
things that was told to me when I was working before we even
51:48
started dressing background is, is there's no closures in space.
51:52
So if for some reason you see a make sure you cover it up and
51:56
you know different things and like there's no knots.
51:59
And so you can't, if you have to tie something, you can't tie a
52:01
knot and like stuff like that. So it was like having to think
52:05
on your feet of how to like close something or do something
52:09
when you're putting it on a human being, having to think
52:11
outside of the box. It was both really exciting but
52:14
also really intimidating. And for me, I was just so
52:18
excited. And I just took that bag of
52:20
Scream and I started going up to these people and I was, I was
52:24
doing things. The next thing I know, there's
52:26
this person dressing doing the same thing next to me.
52:28
And I was like, oh, OK, cool. And then I turn and look and
52:30
it's shot up and I was just like, I was like, do you like
52:35
what I'm doing? She's like, no, I love what
52:36
you're doing. Keep doing it.
52:38
She's like, this is great. Add more of this color.
52:40
Do this. I'll be back in 5 minutes.
52:42
And then she came back in 5 minutes and loved what I was
52:45
doing. And then her, her set people who
52:48
I had worked with a few of them before, all of them knew my love
52:52
of Star Wars because it was well known in the community that I
52:57
loved Star Wars. And so all of them, Shawna
53:01
needed a new person to to step up into the office to sort of
53:05
take over one of the roles of an ACD.
53:08
She had two Acds and one of them winded up leaving early on in
53:12
the series and they needed someone else to step up.
53:15
And the her, all of you know, all of them just kept Shawna.
53:20
I'd be like, well, who do you think I should bring over?
53:21
And all of them just kept saying my name.
53:23
So like forever grateful. But then also Shawna really,
53:26
really liked working with me. And she I think I was wearing
53:30
one of my Star Wars jackets that day and she just was like, she
53:34
clearly loves Star Wars too. They invited me to work office
53:39
and kind of history, Shawna and I just, we got each other and
53:43
she really liked me and really liked my passion and I really
53:47
enjoyed working with her. And it doesn't happen too often
53:51
that you meet someone in your life who you just get.
53:55
And Sean and I had that relationship.
53:58
Like we didn't even have to communicate and we both knew
54:01
each other's needs and that it was we had we had a really
54:07
special like bond. And it's funny because you can
54:09
ask anyone on the crew and they'd be like, yeah, E knows
54:12
how to Shawna speak because like Shawna at times would tell you
54:17
what it is she would want or she texts you something.
54:19
And people would be like, I don't know what she's trying to
54:21
say. And I'd be like, show it to me
54:23
And I'd be like, oh, she wants XY and Z and then be like, how
54:26
do you know that? How can you enter that from her?
54:29
She would respond back with like AK or an OK or a good and I'd be
54:34
like, that actually means is and then I would translate it for
54:38
them. And OK, I I got Shawna and I am
54:45
so grateful I got to meet her and work with her.
54:49
And she also, you know, she took a chance on me and not many
54:53
people do that anymore. There's not too many you have.
54:57
And like, this is nothing against it because obviously if
55:00
you have a team you work great with, you're going to keep that
55:02
team on and you're going to keep going.
55:04
But a lot of people don't like taking chances because with
55:08
taking chances, there's no guarantee.
55:11
So if you have a guarantee, you're going to go with a
55:13
guarantee. But Shawna is all about taking
55:17
chances. A lot of our crew on in our our
55:21
warehouse, like our tailors and our specialty team, they were
55:25
non union. And Shawna knew that they had a
55:28
special skill that we needed. And she'd be like, why don't you
55:32
come work for me? Why don't you do this like you,
55:35
you're obviously really passionate about it and a lot of
55:37
these people. So she got a lot of people in
55:39
our union and very talented people who just didn't know
55:44
where to go or what to do. And she saw their potential and
55:48
she was like, come work with me. And she was all about that.
55:53
And like, even at the end, it's like, I'll never forget one of
55:57
my last like, like meetings with Shawna where I was hanging out
56:01
with her is, is like she, she told me that she was, she was
56:06
like, you're ready to design and you need to be designer.
56:09
And she's like, I believe in you and you just need to do it.
56:12
But it's like she was always there to be like giving you the
56:17
belief that you needed in order to do your job.
56:19
And she was very nurturing and, you know, caring in that way.
56:24
And I think that's something anyone will tell you is this
56:27
Shauna cared. And again, not saying other
56:30
people don't care, but it was like she we all called her mom.
56:36
So it was always like she was a mom.
56:40
She, you know, and if for some reason you need to just take a
56:43
few days off for mental health or if you needed to do something
56:46
with her family, she was she because her family was so to
56:48
her, she'd be like, no, 100% do that.
56:51
So Shawna was just, I mean, she was a force and absolutely an
56:58
amazing individual to work with. And I'm so honored that I got to
57:03
work with her. And I got to, as you know, I
57:06
keep trying to tell myself I got to work on a trilogy.
57:09
I did my own Star Wars trilogy, and I got to do that with
57:12
Shawna. And I'm so that I've got to do
57:15
that. And yeah.
57:17
Yeah, I mean, from the time that I knew her, what I really
57:21
gathered was that she was an advocate for people.
57:23
She every time we talked, she was always say the same three,
57:27
same three things. She would first always talk
57:29
about how her children were her motivators and she loved them
57:32
dearly. She would always talk about her
57:35
love for the fans and that she always wanted to do right by the
57:38
fans no matter what. And she knew that they're always
57:40
watching every little detail that you all would do.
57:43
So she was very aware of that. And she would always just talk
57:46
about how blessed she was to work with such an incredible
57:49
crew. And she was just such a big
57:51
advocate for all of you. And she just saw the talent in
57:55
every single person. And you're right, she would
57:57
stick up for people and help them to get into places that
58:00
maybe other designers might not have given them those same
58:04
opportunities. Yeah, and she just, she saw
58:08
things in people that I don't think most people would take the
58:12
time to see. She saw who you truly were and
58:17
she wanted you to be the best version of yourself.
58:21
Her door was always open and that was something that she
58:25
definitely prided herself in is is that her door was always open
58:29
and she was always open to anyone on the crew coming to
58:32
talk to her about anything. It didn't even have to be about
58:36
work, because she wanted you to know that she's there for you
58:38
and supporting you. You know, when people were
58:41
getting sick, she she'd make sure she'd be like, you go see
58:44
the doctor, like make sure you're doing your cayenne shots
58:47
or like, you know, she was just always, she cared so much about
58:51
everyone. Yeah, I also think Shawna was
58:55
hilarious too. I mean, she would say things and
58:57
make me laugh all the time. Yeah, I mean, I she was, she was
59:02
so funny. I mean, I'm sure you heard
59:05
about, you know, like her, her smudging and like all of that,
59:10
which, you know, to our crew being like, oh, Shawna.
59:13
But like we just accepted it. That was something, you know,
59:17
and we wouldn't accept it, but like, yeah, but my, some of my
59:22
favorite stories would be China loved eating.
59:27
And that's one of the things we also bonded over because I also
59:31
love to eat. And I am definitely always like,
59:33
OK, cool. When's lunch time?
59:34
When's snack time? What are we getting for snack?
59:36
Like that is always I have to know what I'm eating next or I
59:39
have to know when coffee's coming.
59:40
Like she wasn't allowed to have coffee though, by the way, she
59:43
was not allowed to have caffeine.
59:46
Caffeine made her crazy and she would obsess over things, but I
59:51
would just be like, let it go, let it go.
59:52
We can't, you can't obsess on that.
59:54
Please let it go. So it was also me constantly
59:57
having to watch to make sure she wouldn't have caffeine.
59:59
And I would know because sometimes she would sneak it and
1:00:02
I'd come into the room and she'd get this like little, she'd do
1:00:05
this little thing and I'd be like, you and caffeine didn't
1:00:07
share it. She'd be like, no.
1:00:09
And I'd be like you're caffeine and.
1:00:11
Stuff like that. Because I remember this one day
1:00:13
our PA came running up to us and she was like, I can't find
1:00:17
Shawna. And Shawna is supposed to be
1:00:18
doing this thing and I don't know where she is and I, I can't
1:00:22
find Shawna. And I was like, OK, I was like,
1:00:25
is there food in the kitchen? And she was like, no, I haven't,
1:00:28
I haven't gone to the grocery store because we, our PA went to
1:00:30
the grocery store like twice a week and was always really great
1:00:33
about it. But usually Monday mornings, we
1:00:35
would come in and the PA would have to wait till later, a
1:00:38
little later in the day to go in.
1:00:39
But Shawna would come in at like 6:00 AM.
1:00:42
So, you know, by 8:00 AM she's ready for snack or something.
1:00:46
And so this was like at 9 or something in the morning, she's
1:00:50
like, I can't find Shawna. And I was like, is there?
1:00:52
Did you, have you gone to the grocery store yet?
1:00:54
She's like, no. And I was like, watch this.
1:00:56
I called her and she answered and I was like, Shawna, where
1:00:58
are you? Are you at the grocery store?
1:01:00
She was like, yeah, for everyone.
1:01:05
So she would just like, she was always so funny and thoughtful,
1:01:10
but it was like, people would be like, we don't know where Shawn
1:01:11
is. And there'd be panic moment and
1:01:13
I'd be like, guys, she hasn't eaten.
1:01:17
She's hungry, like. Unless she did she had food.
1:01:21
And if the answer is no, then she's wherever the food is and
1:01:25
like guarantee you like, and that could be that could be
1:01:28
anywhere. It would be like if she hasn't
1:01:29
eaten, she's at crafty or she's at catering, like go look for
1:01:34
her there. So it's just stuff like that.
1:01:38
She's so relatable, yeah. Yeah.
1:01:40
And it's like, of course she's getting food, she's hungry.
1:01:43
So stuff like that where it would just be like, it's just
1:01:46
little things. But yeah, she was so funny and
1:01:49
just so she, yeah, so full of life and was so I'm so happy and
1:01:55
honored that I got to work with her and I miss her.
1:01:59
Yeah, I mean, I, I think about her everyday.
1:02:02
I just can't imagine how you all feel.
1:02:04
But I know that she would be so proud of every single one of you
1:02:07
and just seen you all go on and do such incredible projects.
1:02:10
It's just a beginning for literally her entire crew.
1:02:13
So I'm excited to see what's next for you all.
1:02:16
And one thing I learned about which I didn't know about until
1:02:19
after she was gone was the pink Flamingo that she would
1:02:24
incorporate into her costumes. And I was like, when I found
1:02:28
out, I was like, how did I not know this when I interviewed her
1:02:31
three fucking times, You know, like, I was like, how did I not
1:02:35
know this? What, what did the pink, why did
1:02:38
she do this? What was the pink Flamingo to
1:02:40
Shawna? I honestly.
1:02:42
Actually, we never talked about how it started for her really.
1:02:47
She just I think on a cuz that then that was Shawna.
1:02:50
It was like on a whim, she just decided to do something and cuz
1:02:54
that is very Shawna ML by the way, she just be like, mom, I'm
1:02:57
gonna do this and you'd be like OK, yeah.
1:03:00
And she took it there and I that's kind of what happened
1:03:05
with the pink Flamingo, because she started using it, I think,
1:03:09
pretty early on in her career. As.
1:03:12
A cop and she would sneak it in places and sometimes it would be
1:03:16
in very obvious places like I know in far fly on someone's
1:03:22
it's a jacket and then like in she did Oh God, I'm going to
1:03:28
blank on the movie name, but it's on a tie like there's an
1:03:31
actual Flamingo on A and in that Mandalorian season three, it's
1:03:39
in a hidden. You don't actually see it
1:03:41
because I kind of incorporate it knowing that you couldn't
1:03:46
necessarily actually see it, but it would be there.
1:03:51
And in The Mandalorian, on one of our Survivor Mandos, he has
1:03:55
this like a woven chain that the story like that the actor came
1:04:02
up with. This is that he made it and it
1:04:03
carries a picture of his family that he lost.
1:04:06
Like that was the actor's story. And Shawna totally went in with
1:04:09
it and made him this beautiful like woven thing.
1:04:12
And then there was like a sketch, but it like a an
1:04:15
etching. And then one of the etches in it
1:04:17
is on the back of it was this like Flamingo?
1:04:21
And then in Ahsoka, I actually, I think we snuck it in in on one
1:04:30
of the armor pieces, but I don't, I think it's on the
1:04:34
inside. So could she?
1:04:37
Yeah. So she always tried to create a
1:04:40
Flamingo and everything she worked on.
1:04:43
And they're they're there. But again, for fans looking for
1:04:47
it being like, Oh my God, I have to find the Shawna Flamingo.
1:04:50
They're not always visible. She, she was, you know, a true
1:04:54
professional and knew that she couldn't just just have like, a
1:04:56
pink Flamingo and out on someone's hell all the time.
1:05:01
So but she would hide it somewhere and it would be kind
1:05:05
of like her, you know, like I was here.
1:05:08
And yeah. And I think she also just had
1:05:10
fun with it. It was her way of having fun
1:05:12
with the cop getting to leave her mark.
1:05:14
It's like our own little dirty secret, you know?
1:05:19
Well, there's been an outpouring of love for Shawna and all those
1:05:22
who have worked with her. You, the crew and I was at the
1:05:26
lovely Comic Con panel. You were a part of Los Angeles.
1:05:29
Then of course, later Ahsoka won the CDGA earlier this year.
1:05:33
So what do you think it would mean to her seeing all this love
1:05:36
not just for the show she loved, but for the crew and for her
1:05:39
career? So again, like you've mentioned
1:05:42
before, Shawna cared immensely. Shauna always act even before
1:05:48
she worked on Star Wars, cared about fans because Shauna's done
1:05:52
some very iconic sort of nerd fandom shows, like she works
1:05:58
with Joss Whedon and you did Power Rangers was one of her
1:06:01
first shows she ever worked on. So like, she's a nerd from the
1:06:05
beginning. And so she's always cared about
1:06:09
the fans and the fandom and making them proud and always
1:06:15
wanting to interact with them. And her love of the fans, I
1:06:18
think definitely winded translating into we're not
1:06:23
translating, but like her love of the fans and interacting with
1:06:26
the fans. We also had our crew also loving
1:06:31
and interacting with the fans as well.
1:06:34
And you know, like we, I think what was it was that Star Wars
1:06:38
Celebration in Anaheim. We had our one main set
1:06:42
costumer, Mary, she who takes care of Mandalorian.
1:06:47
She would go up and she would fix different Mandalorians
1:06:51
costumes of being like, no, the Cape needs to be picked like
1:06:53
this. And so it's just like fun little
1:06:55
interactions like that, the fans finding out that Mary takes care
1:06:59
of Mando, and it's like Shawna encouraged that she wanted us to
1:07:02
interact with fans and also also made it much more special for us
1:07:09
too. And I mean, it was definitely a
1:07:11
driving force behind Ahsoka because we knew how much Rebels
1:07:16
and Ahsoka are beloved characters and shows.
1:07:21
And so when we were making these costumes, like our own tailors
1:07:27
and custom made people, they're huge Star Wars fans.
1:07:32
Like Rob, who made young Ahsoka and Ahsoka's costumes.
1:07:36
He's such a huge fan of those characters.
1:07:39
And so he knew going into making it that he wanted to do it
1:07:44
right. And Shawna also encouraged our
1:07:47
love for the shows and the fandoms because she knew that
1:07:51
that would help drive us to be better artists and better, you
1:07:54
know, better just overall kind of advocates for the own show.
1:08:01
And like, you know, wanting to do great things for the show
1:08:04
was, you know, having love for it.
1:08:07
And so Shawna's, you know, her her favorite thing.
1:08:11
It was at Comic Con. I'll never forget she did at
1:08:15
Star Wars Celebration in London. She did get permission to show
1:08:18
off the some of the fabric, but it was always just be like,
1:08:22
sometimes I'd be like, shut up, hurry.
1:08:24
Did you get permission? Like what's going to happen?
1:08:29
And I'm like, huh. But I have because like Lucas
1:08:31
Fells and it's like always great and wanted to work with us and
1:08:35
wanted us to have fun with the fans too.
1:08:37
So it always it always turned out it's just me being the
1:08:41
little worry war can be and just be like shut up.
1:08:45
But she she loved the fans and I do truly feel like that is in in
1:08:53
like my bias opinion, but like I do think that's why and this
1:08:59
Ahsoka actually, I feel like we've gotten such fan feedback
1:09:06
of just like of loving the costumes and loving the show in
1:09:10
general is because so much love went into every single piece and
1:09:15
so much. And I think the fans see that
1:09:18
and they create it. And therefore they've all just
1:09:22
been very, you know, I've, I've never had such a outpouring on
1:09:27
my own social media. People just reaching out to me,
1:09:31
just being like, like, you know, like, hey, love your work.
1:09:36
You know, next time you're at a convention, would love to say
1:09:38
hi. And just like, you know, just
1:09:40
love and love about community. And Shawna did too.
1:09:45
So. I just thank you so much for
1:09:48
being here. This has been such a joy and
1:09:51
I've I miss her every day, but she would be so proud of all of
1:09:55
you. It was an incredible show and
1:09:57
I'm just so excited to see what all of you do next.
1:10:01
Costumes, angry. Lisa Ocala, thank you so much
1:10:03
for joining. This has been such a joy.
1:10:10
The Art of Costume podcast is hosted and produced by Elizabeth
1:10:14
Joy Glass and Spencer Williams. Our audio engineering and
1:10:19
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1:10:24
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