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Transcript

Matt Hall · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:18
  I'm automotive commentator and journalist Greg Rust and this is Rusty's Garage.
• 0:27
  In this episode, we're visiting someone's garage that's just a bit bigger than your average two-car lock-up.
• 0:33
  Well, a lot bigger, actually.
• 0:35
  We're inside the biggest garage you can get, an airplane hangar.
• 0:39
  I'm at Lake Macquarie Airport on the central coast north of Sydney, which is home base for Matt Hall when he's not travelling around the world.
• 0:47
  Matt's a distinguished Australian pilot, a top gun, and our first representative in the Red Bull Air Race World Series.
• 0:54
  I have great admiration for people who make their passion their occupation, but for most, this realisation comes later in life.
• 1:04
  Not so for Matt, which is all the more impressive.
• 1:07
  It struck me at a very young age, actually, that I'd go to all these flying clubs and gliding clubs, and I'd see all these old men that are out there on the weekend doing what they want, and I realised they were living for the weekend.
• 1:19
  They hated their Monday to Friday and lived for the weekend.
• 1:20
  I thought, they've got it all the way around.
• 1:22
  the wrong way around, you know, why wouldn't you actually have a job that you can't wait for Monday so you can go and do your job again?
• 1:27
  So that's what I pursued in my life and it's really worked out.
• 1:30
  You're a third generation pilot, if memory serves me correctly, so flying is in the bloodlines.
• 1:34
  Your grandfather flew in World War II, is that right?
• 1:37
  Yeah, that's correct.
• 1:38
  My granddad, he was a pilot in World War II.
• 1:42
  He didn't follow through with flying after the war, let his pilot's ratings lapse.
• 1:48
  But my dad then got his license as a teenager and then I flew with him while I was growing up and I got my license as a teenager.
• 1:58
  Yeah.
• 1:59
  What planes can you recall them either talking about or actually seeing them fly in those junior years for you?
• 2:05
  Yeah, well, my granddad, I never saw him fly an aircraft, but he used to talk about, you know, his training in Tiger Moths and then he was flying Avro Ansons.
• 2:14
  He was actually going on to Beauforts with a plan to end up on both idies when the war finished.
• 2:20
  With my dad, we spent a lot of time, you know, he's a general aviation pilot, so not a commercial pilot, but we spent a lot of time, you know,
• 2:28
  doing towing gliders in old crop dusters and things like that.
• 2:32
  And, yeah, that's the grassroots flying is really what I got involved in with my heritage.
• 2:38
  So what are those early memories of flying in addition to that for you?
• 2:42
  Was there a moment for Matt Hall when you saw something your dad was doing or perhaps others that you admired and you went, this is for me, I really want to pursue this?
• 2:52
  Yeah, there's a couple of things that came to my brain early on.
• 2:55
  So obviously I liked being around planes, but I didn't really know anyone that flew planes for a job.
• 3:03
  And then I went to an air show in the mid-80s.
• 3:07
  So, you know, I was probably 11, 12 years old.
• 3:10
  You were in school?
• 3:12
  here in australia at williamtown actually and um and there were there were two things that occurred there there was um i saw a guy called frank fry who was flying a um an aerobatic plane um and he was doing an airshow demonstration and the things he did in the plane i thought wow you know look at that that guy has got absolute control of that plane um and it doesn't really seem to matter where where the sky and the ground are he just makes the plane do what he wants i thought imagine being able to do that and the other thing i saw was um the mirage and the hornet had just arrived in
• 3:42
  And for me, those, those aircraft were like magical flying carpets.
• 3:46
  I couldn't even imagine that there's a pilot in those aircraft.
• 3:49
  It was like, these were, these were science fiction machines and there was a robot inside them.
• 3:55
  Um, I couldn't, you know, it's just hard to believe there's somebody experiencing, um, the flight in the fighter, um,
• 4:01
  and that that set forth a bit of a chain in my head of you know being able to fly planes that could could operate um you know in what most people consider unrealistic flight envelopes and being able to do it for a job in the military would be an amazing thing to do.
• 4:17
  We'll talk more about that in a moment because the Hornet played a significant part of your your early life.
• 4:23
  Your first solo flight though was before most of us even have a car license I think you were 15 and in a glider is that right?
• 4:30
  Yeah, that's correct.
• 4:30
  I started my flying training when I was 14 and I went solo at 15.
• 4:36
  And my first solo was pretty special actually because my dad was, you get towed up by a tow plane when you're in the glider.
• 4:45
  So did he take you up?
• 4:47
  He took me up.
• 4:47
  So, yeah, we did a, I didn't even know my solo was coming up.
• 4:50
  So I did a check flight with an instructor.
• 4:54
  My dad towed me up on that one.
• 4:55
  Then I landed.
• 4:56
  And then the instructor said, stay in the glider.
• 4:58
  You're going solo.
• 5:00
  Straight after I landed.
• 5:01
  And my dad taxied up in the plane.
• 5:03
  He's looking in there going, he looks like he's in there on his own.
• 5:05
  He says on the radio, you solo.
• 5:07
  I'm like, yep.
• 5:08
  And then, yeah, my dad towed me up.
• 5:10
  And after I leased the rope, he came and flew along next to me.
• 5:12
  It was the first time my dad and I had been,
• 5:14
  separate aircraft, both of us solo.
• 5:16
  It was quite amazing.
• 5:17
  Very cool.
• 5:18
  You get your aircraft pilot's license at age 18.
• 5:21
  What sort of things were you flying back then?
• 5:22
  Was it Cessnas?
• 5:24
  What kind of planes?
• 5:25
  Yeah, so I continued to do my gliding, because that was the cheapest and also the youngest aircraft you were allowed to fly.
• 5:33
  I then, my dad bought an ultralight, and he taught me to fly that, so then I had some power experience, but that was flying with a little lawnmower engine, basically, and some fabric.
• 5:44
  And then I started hang gliding, because in Newcastle it's an amazing spot for hang gliding, so that's quite cheap as well, because there's no fuel involved, so I was doing a bit of that.
• 5:53
  And then as I was finishing school, I was able to convert
• 5:58
  those licenses and hours into a pre-recognized experience to get a what most people consider your normal pilot's license and started flying Cessnas and smaller aerobatic planes and also started...
• 6:13
  with the gliding company that um or the gliding club that i was already flying with and towing the gliders with the um their crop old retired crop duster so at 18 years old i was actually flying quite a range of aircraft uh but doing it on the um on the cheap uh through you know using my contacts and using my experience so some kids at that stage might be kind of supplementing their schooling by working at kmart or doing paper runs or whatever it might be am i right in saying that you were you were flying is that while you're still at school
• 6:43
  Yeah, it was pretty funny actually because I'd go to school and everyone's talking about, hey, look at this cool record I've just bought or I just bought a new record player or hey, I'm going to go to the beach on the weekend and hang out and buy hamburgers.
• 6:58
  I'd be like, I'm not spending a cent because I've got to save every dollar I can while I'm at school so I can go flying on the weekend.
• 7:05
  It was a different sort of lifestyle in that regard.
• 7:08
  But, yeah, I'm a big believer that there's no dream that's ever too big.
• 7:13
  You've just got to find a way to make it happen.
• 7:15
  So that dream then leads you or you start venturing toward a career in the military.
• 7:21
  And, mate, you achieve some remarkable things there.
• 7:24
  I mean, ultimately, Ducks of the Hornet and Fighter Combat courses, Fighter Pilot of the Year, over 1,500 hours in an F-A-18.
• 7:32
  What is that beast like to fly?
• 7:35
  Yeah, it's a pretty cool plane.
• 7:36
  As I was saying earlier, when I was younger, I was looking at it going, surely there's not a human being in that cockpit, because it just looks so out of control.
• 7:45
  And then the first time you get to fly it, I was quite young, and the power of the aircraft,
• 7:55
  People have seen drag races between Hornets and F1 cars and everything.
• 7:59
  And while an F1 will out-accelerate a Hornet off the mark, the thing that a Hornet does is when it passes through 300 knots, which is about 550 kilometres an hour, it's just starting to get its stride.
• 8:11
  And it actually gets more efficient at that speed.
• 8:14
  So as you pass through 300 knots, you get a kick in the back as it accelerates even harder.
• 8:19
  And that's what actually messes with your brain because in F1,
• 8:23
  every other form of machinery in the world, as you're accelerating, you start accelerating and then the acceleration backs off as you're starting to approach your terminal velocity in cars and motorbikes and everything.
• 8:36
  Whereas with jets and rockets, you actually accelerate harder the faster you go.
• 8:40
  So it just doesn't feel right.
• 8:42
  And when you're not used to it, it actually feels wrong.
• 8:46
  It feels like something's going to go wrong because it's like everything's losing control.
• 8:51
  So it's an amazing plane, you know, to be able to point your nose straight up and climb to above airline heights from on the ground level just vertically, you know, to see the things we've seen and, you know, fly in formations with your best friends in the world is an absolutely amazing career.
• 9:09
  There's a level of preparation, a serious level of preparation, both mentally and physically, in order to do that.
• 9:14
  And you wear certain equipment that assists with the incredible G-forces that you're subjected to in those sort of moments, don't you?
• 9:22
  Yeah, for sure.
• 9:22
  So, you know, in the Hornets, the Hornets are 7.5G aircraft.
• 9:26
  I also flew F-15s, which is a 9G aircraft.
• 9:30
  The average person passes out around about 4G if they're not trained how to do it.
• 9:34
  So we're trained to stay conscious through a number of breathing and straining techniques, but we also wear a G suit over the top of our flying suit, which fills with compressed air, basically, and restricts blood flow in our legs under G. Because the reason people can pass out is the blood flow.
• 9:54
  comes out of their head under the G and pools in their lower limbs.
• 9:57
  So if you've got this special pair of trousers that blow up with high pressure air and restrict the blood flow on your legs, the blood's got nowhere to pool apart from in your upper body and hopefully enough to keep you conscious.
• 10:11
  And then on top of that, we're also wearing an oxygen mask to keep us alive at the high altitudes, a helmet-mounted sight so that we can use our weapon systems where...
• 10:23
  night vision goggles that is attached to our helmet as well um and then a survival vest that we wear um not just in combat we wear on every flight because if you eject over water you've got to be able to you know survive and have all your location aids so you walk out to these fighters um you know wearing a lot of gear um and it's all designed to uh to keep you alive in a um in you know what's really a hostile environment um you know at 50 000 feet
• 10:46
  Was there a moment for you?
• 10:47
  I mean, let's just sort of recap that for a second.
• 10:49
  We're talking twin engines, supersonic.
• 10:51
  They're worth about $29 million or something at the peak of their career there.
• 10:56
  Top speed, as you said, just under Mach 2, about 1,900 k's an hour.
• 11:01
  Was the young man who was spellbound up the road at Williamtown pinching himself when you finally got to fly one of those for the first time?
• 11:08
  Yeah, for sure.
• 11:09
  It was one of those things, you know, so you're growing up, you see Top Gun, you're like, man, I want to do that.
• 11:15
  You end up on the Hornet and you spend the first five years of your career looking over your shoulder wondering when they're going to figure it out, that you'd actually do this for free and they're paying me to do it.
• 11:24
  So you're sort of waiting for the bill to turn up, you know, like, oh, here's your bill for like 30 million bucks worth of flying.
• 11:30
  Because it is, you know, it's one of those things that, you know,
• 11:35
  I still can't believe they said, here's your jet fighter.
• 11:38
  We're even going to paint your name on the side of this 30 million buck jet fighter and go into as much flying as you can.
• 11:43
  It's like, really?
• 11:46
  Also on the CV, you know, Royal Australian Air Force fighter combat top gun instructor.
• 11:53
  Ducks, tell me, mate, that you weren't riding a motorbike to work with leather jacket and Ray-Bans and things like that.
• 11:59
  Yeah, if I could have got away with it without my mates giving me curry, I probably would have ridden the bike to work.
• 12:05
  But, yeah, it is one of those things that, you know, when I saw Top Gun when I was a 15-year-old and you go, man, imagine people actually get to do that.
• 12:15
  And then, you know, I set my sights on doing our own Top Gun course and, you know, I was able to do well on it and actually became the chief instructor at our Top Gun school.
• 12:26
  There's a little bit of a touch of ego in it
• 12:29
  But the ego's really drummed out of military pilots very quickly because, you know, like that line in Top Gun, you know, you can't have people's ego writing checks they can't cash because, you know, you're dealing with a lot of equipment.
• 12:43
  And if anyone ever puts their ego ahead of, you know,
• 12:46
  a right decision, it's going to go horribly wrong very quickly.
• 12:49
  So, you know, it was pretty cool to have the responsibility of being, you know, in my 20s, I was already a Top Gun instructor and being able to carry that mantle, you know, and represent Australia, you know, not just within Australia, but also take that award of being a Top Gun instructor and using that overseas, you know, for certain items there as well.
• 13:11
  You probably can't tell me specifics, but there has been combat flying too, mate, hasn't there, in places like Iraq.
• 13:19
  How daunting was that?
• 13:20
  How serious was that in looking back on your career so far?
• 13:24
  Yeah, so I ended up, I was on an exchange program in the US flying F-15 Strike Eagles, which are an amazing aircraft.
• 13:32
  And while I was there, that was when Operation Iraqi Freedom occurred.
• 13:37
  So I ended up as an Australian officer embedded in a US squadron flying the F-15 in Operation Iraqi Freedom, so downtown missions, you know.
• 13:49
  down uh you know over baghdad and getting shot at and um you know all sorts of things and um it's one of those things that i'm i'm glad i was a part of it uh you know i'm not i'm not for a war you know i'd love nothing more than if we didn't need defense forces around the world but unfortunately there's always people out there that want to take advantage of uh other people so defense forces are needed and um and that's what i was needed to do at the time uh it's it's a life-changing event there's no doubt about that you know to to go and um
• 14:18
  you know work with a coalition force um work with your best mates you know it's you know that i guess on a sporting level the way you could put it it's like um being in the state of origin you know you're going to get you know you know some of your mates are going to get hurt um and um there's no you're not doing it for um you're not doing it for any reward personally you're doing it
• 14:39
  the team and the team was the rest of the world at the time saying we've got to stop this occurring and to be part of that team is an amazing feeling but you know it comes with baggage as well you know everyone that ends up in combat ends up coming out at some stage having to deal with what they've been involved in, what they've seen, what they've done and the loss of friends which you know I did lose a few friends in that conflict.
• 15:06
  You were awarded the Air Medal and Air Medal First Oak Leader for operational services there in Iraq.
• 15:12
  I want to come back to the Strike Eagle because you brought that up a moment ago.
• 15:16
  Multi-role fighter jet.
• 15:18
  You were entrusted with a $31 million piece of equipment.
• 15:22
  What is it, mate?
• 15:22
  Correct me if I'm wrong here.
• 15:23
  Two Pratt & Whitney jet engines, afterburning turbofans, range up to nearly 4,000 k's and capable of 3,000 k's an hour.
• 15:31
  Mac 2.5.
• 15:32
  That is mighty.
• 15:35
  Yeah, the Eagle.
• 15:38
  People ask me if I miss the military and on the flying side, I don't really miss the Hornet because I've had enough time in the Hornet to do everything I needed to, but I do miss the Eagle.
• 15:50
  Absolutely amazing plane.
• 15:51
  It's a big aircraft, has a lot of power.
• 15:55
  I saw some amazing things in it.
• 15:57
  A lot of firepower, huge amount of firepower and
• 16:02
  Just on the engine side, because I know a lot of people like engine details, there was one time I was running on the deck in an exercise in an F50, and I was doing about 750 knots at 100 foot off the ground.
• 16:15
  So we're looking at around about 1300 kilometres an hour, about 100 feet, in the middle of the desert, like near Area 51.
• 16:22
  And my fuel flow at the time was 110,000 pounds of fuel per engine.
• 16:28
  So 220,000 pounds of fuel an hour going out the back end.
• 16:32
  So yeah, do the maths on that.
• 16:34
  That is nuts.
• 16:35
  That's wild.
• 16:37
  Let's move to aerobatics because on the CV is also a national advanced aerobatics championship.
• 16:44
  When did that start?
• 16:45
  What drew you to that?
• 16:46
  Was it something that always kind of ticked along as you were doing some of the military stuff?
• 16:50
  Yeah, I dropped out of doing any of the grassroots-type flying when I got into the military.
• 16:56
  I sort of put all of my efforts and all of my thought processes, and basically 24-7 I immersed myself in being the best fighter pilot I could be.
• 17:06
  And it basically came about after I got back from the combat operations when I was living in America, you know, I had a little bit of a downer almost.
• 17:14
  You go, well, I've just come out of combat.
• 17:16
  I survived, lost some friends.
• 17:17
  What's next?
• 17:18
  You know, what do I do?
• 17:20
  You know, surely I haven't just peaked at age 30.
• 17:23
  That's the highest point of my life.
• 17:25
  I'm not saying that, you know, going into combat is the highest point, but the most...
• 17:28
  You know, the pinnacle of performance is in combat really for any Defence Force person.
• 17:36
  So what do I do now to challenge myself?
• 17:39
  And so I bought a little aerobatic plane in America.
• 17:43
  What was it?
• 17:44
  It was called an Acrosport, a little two-seat open cockpit biplane.
• 17:49
  And I thought, you know, I'm going to go to a competition.
• 17:51
  So I bought this plane.
• 17:52
  I rocked up to a competition and said, I want to go in the competition.
• 17:58
  And they're like, okay.
• 18:00
  do you know what you're doing?
• 18:01
  I said, I can do a loop and a roll.
• 18:02
  So I did it and they're like, that's completely bad.
• 18:04
  You didn't do any of the things we're looking for judging and that's when I realised there's a whole set of rules with doing a competition.
• 18:11
  They try and make it as objective as possible even though it is being judged.
• 18:15
  So...
• 18:17
  I brushed up my skills and then won the next competition and went, you know what, maybe I can actually do this.
• 18:23
  That was kind of fun.
• 18:24
  So I started buying some bigger and better aerobatic planes and that just sort of progressed in parallel on the weekends with my military career.
• 18:33
  In 2009, you make your debut in the Red Bull Air Race World Series as a plane taking off in the background, super timing or landing, I should say.
• 18:42
  That kind of blended the two things, didn't it?
• 18:44
  Because it brought all your aerobatic skills, but the fast manoeuvring, the racing aspect as well, which clearly appeals to you.
• 18:53
  Yeah, it was, you know, the head of the sport in 2009 after I did my first race, he summed it up and said, this sport was made for me.
• 19:03
  Which it really did seem that at the time because, you know, I'd always pushed myself very hard in the military.
• 19:09
  I was used to pulling a lot of G. I was used to flying high performance aircraft.
• 19:12
  I was used to low flying at high speeds.
• 19:15
  I was also used to being able to control my emotions and stress levels.
• 19:18
  You know, I'd been in combat, you know, I'd been shot at, but I was still able to perform my job.
• 19:23
  And I found I was quite good at being able to keep my brain compartmentalised when the heat was on.
• 19:31
  In fact, to the point where I would often be able to perform at my peak level when I'm under immense pressure was actually where I had my best performances.
• 19:40
  Being able to take really that whole military mindset and the physical experience of what I'd done in the flying and combine that into a world performance sport using aircraft seemed a natural fit.
• 19:53
  And that's exactly how it went down.
• 19:55
  To get in, I had to do some training, more training, aerobatic training, and qualify through aerobatic competitions.
• 20:02
  And I did okay in those aerobatic competitions, but where I actually excelled was when I stepped up.
• 20:06
  the next level out of the aerobatic competitions and went to racing competitions, that's where I really found my stride and it really did fit like a glove.
• 20:15
  I'm probably reluctant to ask it, really.
• 20:17
  I don't ask it of a lot of racing people, be it bike races or car races either.
• 20:22
  Scariest moment for you in that air race competition?
• 20:25
  Tell us about it.
• 20:26
  Yeah, it's the scariest moment in racing.
• 20:30
  I have actually hit the surface of the earth, which is, as a pilot, it's never something you want to do.
• 20:38
  It wasn't scary at the time.
• 20:39
  It was more scary straight after it.
• 20:42
  You know, I think most...
• 20:47
  motorsport guys, in fact most people in the world, have been in a situation where things have gone horribly wrong very quickly.
• 20:54
  Some members of the human race put their hands in the air and freak out.
• 20:58
  Other people that are generally control freak type personalities like me, when it's going wrong, you don't actually have time to get upset or panic or be scared.
• 21:07
  You accept where you're at and you think of everything you can do to minimise the
• 21:12
  the bad result, which is exactly what happened.
• 21:14
  So I G stalled in a low level turn, rolled the plane on its back.
• 21:19
  I realised straight away I was going to crash and I was able to get the plane flying again, get it rolled back upright.
• 21:26
  So this all happened at about 30 feet.
• 21:28
  Get it rolled back upright.
• 21:30
  I hit both wing tips in the water in the recovery.
• 21:33
  and the landing gear i tore some parts off the plane and bounced uh was able to gather up what was left um during the bounce and stop it hitting the water again uh and then um and then miss the crowd and fly away and that all uh from the stall until coming back out of the water was 0.6 of a second so it it all happened very quick but once again it's like all professional motorsport people you end up you know time slows down uh and what seems to have happened in a very slow process
• 22:03
  quick.
• 22:03
  In the first qualifying session of race four in Windsor, Ontario, Australian pilot Matt Hall, after a strong early section in the track, stalled his plane to face a dramatic situation.
• 22:15
  And the final big challenge, level through this blue gate, hard left to the chicane.
• 22:18
  Oh, oh, and a skim off the water.
• 22:21
  What an amazing recovery.
• 22:22
  Matt Hall, way, way too low, skimming the wing in the water, but just pulls the plane up in time.
• 22:29
  Watch it, mate.
• 22:30
  Cleared to hole three.
• 22:31
  Just have a look at you, Tom.
• 22:35
  came through the gate 13, I believe it is, with too great an angle to the chicane, and then I broke one of my own rules.
• 22:41
  I actually looked into the turn, which means I don't fly the aircraft naturally.
• 22:45
  I pulled on it.
• 22:47
  I've G-stalled the aircraft, which has rolled me slightly past the knife edge.
• 22:52
  I've managed to get it back to wings level and recover.
• 22:55
  I believe I might have skipped twice on the water because I felt two impacts, flew it away, and then obviously it was all just trying just to get it back on the ground safely.
• 23:04
  Everyone was okay.
• 23:05
  Yeah, you know, thank God it was Matt Hall.
• 23:07
  There's a guy that was pushing hard, stalled the airplane, and he's one of the best pilots on the planet, and that's why he is where he is now, landing back safely at this airport.
• 23:18
  So the scariest part was afterwards, realizing what I'd just been through and then playing out what's still going to happen.
• 23:26
  Is the plane going to keep flying?
• 23:27
  Can I land it?
• 23:28
  Can I land it?
• 23:29
  Am I gonna have to bail out?
• 23:30
  My wife and my son are down there watching.
• 23:34
  That was a big factor in my head.
• 23:35
  They're on the ground watching me at the moment.
• 23:37
  They've just seen me crash.
• 23:38
  and no one knows what's going to happen in the next 30 seconds, including me.
• 23:42
  So it was still a process I was going through, but it was definitely the fear of unknown started to creep in pretty hard at that point.
• 23:50
  I thought I'd probably lost half of my prop.
• 23:51
  I thought my prop had been in the water.
• 23:53
  So I thought the engine was basically cooking itself and it was about to blow up.
• 23:57
  So I was actually preparing to bail out straight away.
• 24:00
  I gave it like 30 seconds.
• 24:03
  Okay, I've got the engine in control.
• 24:05
  Then I got Nigel Lamb, one of the other competitors, up against me in the helicopter.
• 24:09
  And they had a look around and said, you know, you're missing some landing gear components.
• 24:13
  Your gear might come off.
• 24:14
  So then it's like, okay, I think I'm going to be able to fly the plane.
• 24:17
  But...
• 24:17
  It's probably going to end up on its belly when I land, which can break your back, basically, in these planes if the gear comes off on landing.
• 24:25
  So it's one of those things, you keep going through it.
• 24:28
  I wouldn't say my heart rate really got up.
• 24:30
  I was more disappointed in myself for allowing myself to end up in that situation.
• 24:37
  My heart rate didn't get up until really after I landed, and then it hit home.
• 24:41
  It was like, okay...
• 24:44
  I'm unharmed, the plane's damaged, and my career is a mess.
• 24:49
  And then my wife turned up and was like, uh-oh.
• 24:52
  How was she?
• 24:53
  She was really good, actually.
• 24:54
  She's, you know, she's, she was, she's ex-military as well.
• 24:57
  She was a flight surgeon in the military and actually responsible for crash investigations.
• 25:02
  So she gets it.
• 25:03
  You know, she realises that we're not doing normal aviation.
• 25:06
  We're in a motorsport and motorsport involves taking calculated risks.
• 25:10
  You know, you don't try and crash your plane.
• 25:12
  You don't try and crash your car when you're racing.
• 25:14
  But it's not.
• 25:16
  that like you're just driving down the road, you know, it's not like I'm taking the family for a flyer when I'm in a racetrack.
• 25:21
  We are flying with a lot of safety equipment based on the fact that the chances of a crash are much higher than normal aviation.
• 25:26
  So she gets that.
• 25:29
  She also understood that we needed to dig down and find out what went wrong rather than just shrugging our shoulders and saying, I hope that doesn't happen again.
• 25:36
  So, you know, someone less understanding would have said, that's it, no more.
• 25:41
  Whereas she said, well, obviously something went wrong.
• 25:43
  Let's find out what it was and fix it.
• 25:44
  So,
• 25:45
  Getting back on the horse, because you are the kind of person who is of that military background and you compartmentalised, did that process happen fairly simply?
• 25:53
  You ticked all the boxes in terms of understanding what went wrong, knowing that you could prevent it from happening again, et cetera, et cetera, and move on?
• 26:00
  Yeah, very much so.
• 26:01
  It was definitely a process.
• 26:03
  I had to make an initial decision, and that was the hardest decision to make, that I had to go and look at myself in the mirror and...
• 26:14
  Straight after it happened, and really, they say, you know, looking in the hall of mirrors, I actually had to look at myself in the mirror and challenge myself because my initial instinct was embarrassment.
• 26:25
  It's like, I want to go and hide from all this and want to run away and say, you know, that was really embarrassing and I'm lucky to survive and everything.
• 26:32
  Because you're a perfectionist.
• 26:33
  Yeah, exactly, because I'm a perfectionist and I hate making errors.
• 26:36
  So I had to stare myself down and challenge myself.
• 26:40
  It's like the rest of my life will be based around the decision I'm going to make in the next 30 seconds.
• 26:46
  So I went, are you going to run away and hide or are you going to take this, learn from it, improve not only my system, but improve the safety of the air race and everybody?
• 26:57
  by coming up with what went wrong and implementing it.
• 27:00
  And, you know, it was a challenge because straight after it, you just want to go and crawl into bed and suck your thumb, you know.
• 27:06
  So I pushed myself and then after we made that decision, then it was, you know, right down a process of what we're going to go through, what we're going to analyse.
• 27:15
  and how deep we're going to dig because you can always dig deeper and at some point you've got to go right there is the there is the root evil of what happened and that's that's the core of what we've got to fix and in in the end we found three cores we had to fix and once we fixed them it was very very easy to get back on the horse because you go right there the three problems we had we fixed them let's go this is greg rust and you're listening to rusty's garage more with matt hall
• 27:43
  In this series, I speak to some of the most passionate riders, drivers, designers and collectors I know.
• 27:50
  Like Mark Scaife, the legendary Australian touring car racer, Supercars Hall of Famer and Bathurst Great, who opens up on some of the heavy financial burden he experienced during a tumultuous period as a team owner.
• 28:05
  The demands around shortening my driving career...
• 28:08
  were consequential to all of those external business demands around being able to write enough sponsorship and being able to operate a high-level team bloody hard.
• 28:21
  Listen to the full episode with Mark Scaife here on Rusty's Garage.
• 28:33
  That'll buff right out.
• 28:34
  An ironic comment made about a person's vehicle that has suffered irreparable damage, suggesting it can be fixed when it clearly can't.
• 28:41
  Hilarious to those around them, not so funny for the owner of the destroyed vehicle.
• 28:47
  Air Race is a tremendous series because you go to some spectacular locations around the world.
• 28:52
  You bring flying to the people above harbours and iconic locations, racing among the pylons.
• 29:00
  And there's a real art to that that blends your skills, but also lots of great motor racing things.
• 29:08
  I mean, these are finely tuned machines, aren't they?
• 29:12
  Absolutely.
• 29:13
  Yeah, very much so.
• 29:14
  The air race started in 2003, I think the first air race was, in Italics, which was just a couple of guys with their stock aerobatic planes going, hey, let's race around some pylons.
• 29:28
  Yeah, just having fun in a paddock.
• 29:30
  And then it grew from there.
• 29:32
  it's like, I guess, V8 supercars where we have to base our race aircraft off a production plane.
• 29:40
  And the production plane I'm using is a Zivco Edge at the moment.
• 29:44
  The original Zivco Edge, if you buy it from the factory, for example, performance-wise, it'll do...
• 29:49
  maybe 180 knots straight and level, whereas ours will do 235 knots straight and level.
• 29:54
  So it's really pushing things up another notch.
• 29:58
  Everything, every single thing on the aircraft is there for a purpose of racing.
• 30:03
  So we no longer have things that are there for aerobatics.
• 30:07
  Yeah, so in aerobatics you want to,
• 30:09
  a nice canopy so you can see where you are and keep your orientation whereas in racing we don't want any extra weight or profile so everything is cut down so we can hardly see anything when we're in these race planes um all we all we want to be able to see is the pylon out the front so taking off and landing and that sort of stuff actually is quite a challenge in these planes because you can't see anything um
• 30:29
  You know, every single gram of weight we put into the aircraft is assessed.
• 30:33
  Is it valuable or is it not?
• 30:35
  Is it, you know, is it going to help us go faster or do we throw it out?
• 30:38
  So, and that actually includes myself as well, that, you know, any weight I put on, it's like, what are you doing and why are you doing it?
• 30:45
  And sometimes that's just, that's, you know, it's soul destroying when you go out and you see all your mates having a beer and you're sitting there going, I've got a race coming up and I've got to lose 300 grams.
• 30:55
  the planes i mean you talk about the chase for weight there before i mean even things like like uh decals or paint schemes and things like you you absolutely try to keep the weight down even with things like that yeah for sure because um you know it's not just the overall weight of the aircraft it's how the weight's distributed as well so once again just like any high performance um um piece of machinery um
• 31:18
  Yeah, there's the total package weight that then is related to traction and power of how fast you can accelerate and how fast you can corner.
• 31:27
  But on top of that, just as critical is the balance because the plane is just like the cars that if there's too much weight down the back, it'll pitch too fast and you can over-G or stall.
• 31:39
  If the weight's too far up the front, you've got to use too much force to get the plane to turn, which is drag, and it won't corner as well.
• 31:47
  We've just gone through a branding change over the break and the plane is not only heavy, but the weight distribution is poor and it's got a very heavy back end, which means that… So you can feel that.
• 31:58
  You weren't as comfortable as normal because of that.
• 32:00
  Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 32:01
  So we actually had two over-G's in training and one over-G in training, one over-G in quali.
• 32:08
  because if you think about it, if the weight is at the back end of the plane, as you start to pitch, the weight wants to keep going and actually makes the plane pitch harder than you're prepared to pitch, and it spikes the G. And we were getting unheard of
• 32:23
  acceleration rates uh which is you know 40 g per second and we're limited to um to 12 g and at 40 g per second that's 1 g added every 25 milliseconds so um yeah you've so you know i'll try and go to 11 but with the weight distribution i got to 12 a few times accidentally because the pitch rates were so high okay
• 32:43
  Tell people that don't know about the Edge some more data, particularly in relation to engine and things like that.
• 32:49
  Okay, yeah.
• 32:49
  So basically we're running normally aspirated engines.
• 32:52
  It's a standardised engine we use in the race, mainly for safety but also for budget constraints.
• 32:57
  So, you know, we used to be able to do whatever we wanted to the engines.
• 33:00
  Then some people were having...
• 33:02
  He says with a smile.
• 33:02
  Yeah, and I did quite a bit.
• 33:04
  And there were a few engine failures from some other teams because they were pushing them so hard, you know, pushing them like race stuff that, you know, we're only going to get, you know, two or three races out of this and we're going to throw it away.
• 33:16
  And that puts the budget through the roof, but it also puts the safety at risk as well because unlike, once again, track racing, if we lose the donk in the plane, it's a bigger issue than just pulling over on the side of the track.
• 33:30
  Oh, by the way, a donk is slang for an engine.
• 33:33
  It's not a term you often hear these days, but when Matt's chatting about it, he's referring to the engine up front in the plane.
• 33:39
  Um, so, uh, the engines are standardised, normally aspirated, 540 cubic inches, so that's about eight and a half litres from memory.
• 33:47
  They're old school technology, these engines.
• 33:50
  They're eight and a half litres, but they're only six cylinders.
• 33:54
  They're just your classic horizontally opposed engines.
• 33:57
  So basically VW style engine just with six pots, but they're big pots.
• 34:02
  It's a very high torque engine.
• 34:04
  So we run quite low RPM.
• 34:07
  exactly what we run we won't get into, but it's somewhere around 2950 RPM to 2950, which doesn't seem that high, but we're pushing up around 350 horsepower on very low RPM.
• 34:19
  And that's limited as well by the rules and the regs of what we're allowed to do to keep it all safe.
• 34:25
  It's just normal aviation fuel.
• 34:28
  We're not allowed to put additives in the oil or anything.
• 34:31
  What we can do, though, is we can work fairly hard on cooling systems, which we spend a lot of time working on cooling systems because, once again, like most people know that a fine-tuning motorsports is that cooling is critical for the engine for getting the optimum power, but it's also critical for the total package for drag.
• 34:51
  that if you can reduce the amount of effort you're putting into cooling the aircraft with robbing external air, which you have to decelerate, cool the engine, then re-accelerate, you can go faster in straight lines if you're not doing that.
• 35:04
  So we spend a huge amount of effort into both the cooling of the aircraft and also the induction into the engine itself.
• 35:13
  And we're currently looking at all of the normal race stuff of harmonics, looking at...
• 35:20
  volumetric areas in plenums leading into the fuel servers.
• 35:24
  So all the stuff, I'm lucky I've got a Formula One expert in my team now who's mapping the engine and all the harmonics in the engine, and we're actually getting more power out of the engine just by changing the design of the intake.
• 35:37
  How big's the team?
• 35:38
  I mean, you have, as you and I talk here, you've just come back from finishing fifth at the opening round, I think it was, and the next is a few weeks away because the Winter Olympics are on in between time.
• 35:48
  They're off to Cannes next, I think.
• 35:51
  But the plane stays in Europe while you're back here in Australia, doesn't it?
• 35:54
  Yeah, that's right.
• 35:55
  So the plane stays in Europe.
• 35:56
  We're actually getting some work done to try and balance some of those items we're talking about with the aerodynamics.
• 36:02
  The team is currently back home again.
• 36:05
  We've got an all Australian team at the moment.
• 36:08
  So it's only four of us that are...
• 36:10
  that are on the road, uh, being, you know, myself as, yeah, I go there as the boss.
• 36:14
  I then, um, delegate myself, uh, down to being the pilot.
• 36:18
  Uh, so I don't have to concentrate on being the boss and the pilot at the same time.
• 36:21
  Uh, and then I come home back as the boss again.
• 36:24
  Um, then we've got, um, my technician who's, um, you know, responsible for obviously the, primarily the, first of all, the safety of the aircraft, but then also for, uh,
• 36:34
  doing whatever we can to make it faster.
• 36:36
  I've got my race tactician who's responsible for making sure all of our onboard telemetry is working.
• 36:42
  Then he analyses all of our telemetry and puts forward recommendations to me about what I can do differently in the track, both on the line.
• 36:49
  Just like Formula 1.
• 36:49
  Exactly.
• 36:50
  And we've got our, you know, he sits there with data traces and, you know, 64 channels at 100 hertz of information that he analyzes with all of our GPS plots.
• 36:59
  And then he'll debrief me after every flight.
• 37:01
  You know, I'll give you my gut feel, just once again, like Formula One, I'll debrief with him and say, this is what I thought, this is what I felt.
• 37:07
  And then he'll analyze the data and go, you're right here, you're wrong here, and we're going to do this differently.
• 37:11
  and then I've got a team manager who's running around keeping us all in control so it's actually quite a small team at the race and the reason for that is we don't do um we don't do high speed pit changes or anything like that so um yeah we don't we don't come running in and do a two second tire change we come in and we take our time to get the plane turned around but
• 37:28
  We've got a lot more people in the background.
• 37:30
  We've got an aerodynamic design team.
• 37:32
  We've got a, in Germany, we've got some more data analysis in Melbourne that help us out.
• 37:40
  And then I've got the physical team around me as well.
• 37:43
  So, you know, I've got my own personal trainer, sports psychologist, and then all of the back crackers and the physios and all that sort of stuff.
• 37:52
  Because we do, you know, we put our bodies under a lot there and, you know, I need that whole team around me.
• 37:57
  So when I get home,
• 37:58
  I'm generally all twisted and screwed up and it's a process for about a week to straighten me up again.
• 38:03
  The record books show top two results in the World Championship in 2015 and 16, if my memory serves me correctly there.
• 38:10
  I mean, it is literally the best aerobatic race pilots in the world all coming together.
• 38:16
  The competition is incredibly tough, mate, isn't it?
• 38:18
  Yeah, it's very, very tight racing.
• 38:25
  We no longer talk about how many seconds.
• 38:27
  A race would be somewhere, the average race is somewhere between probably 55 seconds and maybe a minute and two, something like that.
• 38:33
  All the tracks are different around the world, but that's roughly how they go.
• 38:37
  We no longer talk about seconds, how many seconds did you run on the track.
• 38:40
  So you won't go, I ran a 55 seconds.
• 38:42
  and at 0.3, you'll say, I ran a 0.532.
• 38:44
  And someone goes, oh, I ran a 0.461.
• 38:47
  And then you go, geez, you know.
• 38:49
  And then that, you know, you start talking, you know, bigger decimal places, and it seems like you're way off the pace.
• 38:55
  You know, in the end, you go, man, I was still like, you know, your 153 thousandths of a second behind him is like,
• 39:00
  153, where are we going to find 153 thousandths of a second?
• 39:03
  When you look at the big pitch, you go, I can't even start and stop my watch in that much time.
• 39:07
  You know, we're talking a metre or two on the track, but that's how tight the racing is because everybody is, you know, super capable and, you know, it's one of those things you've sometimes got to slap yourself around when you come back from a race and, you know, I come back in fifth place in this last one and you come back and you kick in the can going, you know, bloody hell, I came fifth, you know.
• 39:26
  I need to do better than that.
• 39:27
  And you've got to sit back and go, I came fifth by less than two tenths of a second and I was racing against the top guys in the world with highly modified planes.
• 39:38
  And you go, it's actually pretty good I was just being involved, let alone coming fifth.
• 39:43
  What I am finding is the body clock is ticking.
• 39:46
  It's getting harder every year to strap the plane on.
• 39:51
  I still think I've got a number of years left in me.
• 39:53
  It's a matter of care and feeding my body.
• 39:55
  But we've got a number of years of just concentrating on me and the team being world champion a number of times.
• 40:02
  But in the background, we are already looking at the evolution of the sport.
• 40:07
  So up until about now, the sport's always been the Red Bull Air Race gets to pick and choose who comes into the sport.
• 40:16
  I applied, but they chose, said, yes, you can.
• 40:19
  And then I ran the team and I owned the team.
• 40:22
  The evolution that's starting to occur now is that, like any motorsport evolves, is that the team is now established.
• 40:30
  So rather than...
• 40:32
  a new pilot creating a new team, we will actually pick the pilot who's going to replace me and we'll maintain the team, which is a win-win for everybody.
• 40:41
  So a pilot can just walk in and his primary job, his only job in the world is to go fast in that plane.
• 40:47
  Whereas I have to deal with also running the business and that sort of stuff.
• 40:51
  to do it so it's a great um next level for the person that does replace me and you know i'm excited to be involved in a in a motorsport that's um you know i'm at the ground floor and it's and it's growing like you wouldn't believe especially overseas and uh yeah it's a it's a very privileged place to be not only uh one of the ranked competitors in this growing sport but also in a position that you know i can see myself being involved in this sport as long as i want regardless of my physical ability to get in the cockpit
• 41:18
  Let's talk before I wrap this up about, I often ask guests about what's in their garage, either what their dream machine is, what they're restoring, perhaps, etc, etc.
• 41:28
  Let's talk about a couple of cool things that you've flown along the way.
• 41:32
  Am I right in saying that you've flown a Mustang?
• 41:34
  What was that thing like?
• 41:35
  Yeah, I've flown a Mustang.
• 41:37
  In fact, it's in my stable.
• 41:38
  I own a part share in that one.
• 41:41
  And it's an amazing plane.
• 41:44
  Yeah, huge amount of power, huge amount of noise.
• 41:47
  Iconic too.
• 41:49
  Oh yeah, so it's, ours is a two-seater.
• 41:51
  So, you know, we sometimes take people flying and, and you know, quite often, you know, as you're getting out of the plane, you'll have grown men and ladies in the back tearing up.
• 42:02
  And you're like, you know, just like, oh, now I know what my granddad did and you know.
• 42:05
  It's just, it's such a raw feeling of power.
• 42:08
  And it's one of those things that even when I land it, you can't believe that this was handed over to 18 and 19 year olds to go out and get shot at.
• 42:16
  You know, it's already hard enough to fly these things well, just concentrating purely on flying it well, let alone flying it well and getting shot at.
• 42:25
  And you're freezing your butt off at 30 odd thousand feet.
• 42:28
  So amazing plane, you know, 27 litres of, 27 litre engine, V12, you know,
• 42:35
  1600 horsepower and stub stacks flames come out of the exhaust when you're running this thing it's just so cool as a as a motorhead it is the most amazing thing are there any other resto projects currently in the hangar underway or if budget was unlimited what would you love to have in there
• 42:53
  I like all the ends of the spectrum.
• 42:55
  So we've got a Piper Cub in the hangar getting restored at the moment, which is basically an old rag and tube aircraft used as a trainer in the 40s.
• 43:08
  And it's just a fun plane to fly around in.
• 43:10
  I've always got my eye on other aircraft.
• 43:13
  I think we've got about six or seven planes at the moment.
• 43:16
  But the boss has stepped in and said that I can't buy any more planes until I've got all the ones I've got flying.
• 43:22
  Yeah.
• 43:22
  which is quite a challenge because I keep seeing all these really cool projects and go, oh, maybe she won't notice if I just slipped that one into the hangar.
• 43:28
  But she's the bookkeeper, so I think she'll notice.
• 43:31
  She'll notice.
• 43:32
  Is it true you've only ever done one parachute jump?
• 43:35
  And why is that?
• 43:36
  Do you think they're mad?
• 43:37
  That's not something you want to pursue?
• 43:38
  No.
• 43:39
  Yeah, that is true.
• 43:40
  I've only done one jump.
• 43:41
  It was back in the 90s.
• 43:43
  I did it and I went, yeah, that was kind of cool, but why would you ever not want to land the plane as well?
• 43:49
  So I'm now business partners with a skydiving company and I watch how much fun they all have and every now and then I look at it and go, maybe I need to give it another crack, but I like landing planes.
• 44:09
  That is cool.
• 44:11
  Yep, this is kind of like where I come to hang out and get all excited, but also shake my head.
• 44:18
  We've just walked out into the hangar.
• 44:20
  You can hear a Robinson helicopter, I think it is, taking off in the background.
• 44:25
  So, first of all, three aircraft that we're looking at in here at the moment.
• 44:31
  In the Red Bull Cola colours is your now retired race craft, because you have a new edge that we've spoken about.
• 44:38
  Tell us about this firstly.
• 44:39
  Yeah, so this one I started racing in 2010.
• 44:41
  This is actually the one that I touched the water with.
• 44:44
  So me and her go way back, and we've had some good and bad experiences together.
• 44:49
  It's also the plane that I've finished number two in the world twice in.
• 44:53
  So this is my little baby, and we retired her because she had a problem with the wing at the end of one of the seasons, and we thought rather than trying to rapidly fix the wing...
• 45:04
  we're better off to buy a brand new race plane and take our time to make sure everything's fine with it because it's, you know, once again, like, you know, it's slightly different to any other motorsport that if something goes wrong in the track, you know, it could go horribly wrong real quick.
• 45:20
  So safety is paramount.
• 45:22
  We weren't quite sure how bad the problem was, so we bought a new race plane.
• 45:25
  It turns out it's all fixed again now and she's fine.
• 45:27
  So she's really now just a demonstration aircraft, right?
• 45:32
  which is a pretty impressive demonstration.
• 45:34
  Very impressive.
• 45:35
  So we're talking Edge here, aren't we?
• 45:36
  This one here is an MXS.
• 45:37
  So it's the other type of race plane that's used out there.
• 45:41
  And this one, ultimately, they're all about the same.
• 45:45
  This has got a slightly different construction method, but they're effectively the same sort of plane.
• 45:51
  Okay.
• 45:52
  What about over to the right-hand side?
• 45:54
  Blue and yellow, Matt Hall Racing colours.
• 45:59
  Extra, is that right?
• 45:59
  That's exactly right.
• 46:00
  So, yeah, this is our two-seat Extra.
• 46:01
  It's my family model.
• 46:03
  It carries an extra bum.
• 46:04
  And this is what we do all of our media and all of our joy flights and all that sort of stuff in.
• 46:10
  So it's got the same engine and prop set up as the race plane, basically.
• 46:13
  So still very, very manoeuvrable and very fast.
• 46:19
  But it just happens to weigh a bit more.
• 46:21
  And when you look at it, you can see that it's...
• 46:24
  While it still looks very fast and sleek when you look at it and the race plan together, you can see which one's going to go faster.
• 46:30
  But fun playing.
• 46:33
  Basically, this is the home-based business where people can come for a run with us.
• 46:37
  Single engine prop up front.
• 46:39
  What's the power plant like?
• 46:40
  Tell us more.
• 46:41
  Yeah, so this is a 300 horse, so very similar to the race plane.
• 46:45
  We only run this at 2700 RPM, but it's pulling 300 horsepower, but the plane anyway is about 650 kilos empty.
• 46:54
  So power-to-weight ratio is actually pretty damn good with 300 horsepower.
• 46:58
  Because, you know, it's very similar power-to-weight ratio as a V8 supercar.
• 47:03
  Some people, if they've been to events around Australia, they've probably seen us either demoing the plane at the supercar races, and I've also raced Jamie Wincup as well on a drag on take-off with these planes, and we're neck and neck all the way down the straight.
• 47:20
  He then has to brake for the corner and I don't.
• 47:23
  Now, in the corner, being restored, you mentioned your lovely wife, the bookkeeper.
• 47:28
  She probably wanted you to finish this project.
• 47:30
  What is it?
• 47:30
  What are we looking at and how far before it will be completed?
• 47:32
  So, yeah, this is a Super Cub.
• 47:35
  It's actually my wife.
• 47:36
  She's not a pilot, but I bought it for her.
• 47:37
  That's how I got away with it.
• 47:40
  so she couldn't say no when i bought her a nice present um and uh so we're just in a process of restoring it back to brand new condition uh it's actually it's not that far off um being finished it's really just needs uh a couple of uh coats of paint here and there uh we've got a new engine sitting in the in the box got a new prop sitting on the shelf uh we've got new uh instruments sitting on the shelf as well so we're we're now just at a matter of uh bolting everything back together and um
• 48:04
  It's like everything in life though, time gets in the way.
• 48:08
  So we've got a plane that's ready to go.
• 48:11
  It's just a matter of having time and every time we think we've got time, something pops up and the priority is always racing.
• 48:17
  So that always ends up in the back of the corner.
• 48:20
  In fact, it's been living there now for two years.
• 48:22
  What's the age and the history on it, things like that?
• 48:25
  Well, this one here is actually fairly new as far as these are concerned.
• 48:30
  So the design is back in the 1940s, a big training type of aircraft.
• 48:36
  It's probably the most popular designed aircraft in the world, the Piper Cub.
• 48:40
  This one's called a Super Cub, and it started being produced in about the 60s, and it's
• 48:47
  and what they call it super because they've just put more power in it.
• 48:51
  And you see these types of planes a lot in a lot of YouTube videos that get passed around from Alaskan bush pilots where they're doing these insanely short take-off and landings.
• 49:02
  These types of planes can take off and land in...
• 49:05
  five meters um and they they land them on uh on uh riverbeds and they actually they water ski and they put them down on water and run them along the water because the tires are so big they're like water skis so they're fun planes to fly and you fly around with the door open um you know you can land them anywhere you don't need a runway uh just a huge amount of fun um and uh they're great for teaching people to fly as well so my son will probably learn to fly in this
• 49:29
  How old is he?
• 49:30
  He's now 12.
• 49:32
  He got a bit too cool for flying for a little while there, but now he's starting to look at it and go, it actually is, flying is actually pretty cool.
• 49:38
  So he's starting to come flying with me again.
• 49:41
  Final question for you.
• 49:42
  Are you a big fan of the history of flying?
• 49:45
  I mean, I spent, in the last 12 months, I went to Washington and went to the Smithsonian there, which is dedicated to flying and space travel and things like that.
• 49:53
  I mean, it's just amazing.
• 49:54
  An original Wright brothers plane in there.
• 49:58
  That sort of stuff's hugely, I sense in you, you love all of that.
• 50:02
  Yeah, for sure.
• 50:03
  You know, when you're growing up, you're always looking back in history and everything that happened before you were born seems like it was so long ago.
• 50:12
  And so obviously, you know, I've looked at, you know, when I was growing up, aviation's just always been around.
• 50:16
  I always knew that the first flight was the 17th of December 1903, but that was so long ago, it's not funny.
• 50:21
  And then I went to the centenary of that in the US when I was living there, and they reenacted the first flight.
• 50:27
  And now, as it turns out, you know, I've been alive for, you know, approaching half of the history of aviation.
• 50:35
  And you go, wow, that's actually a very young activity still to be involved in and in the development of it.
• 50:43
  And, you know, I look at what people have done in the past and, you know, all the...
• 50:47
  the test pilots who broke the sound barrier, and you go to the Smithsonian and you read all their stories, and then you go down to Cape Canaveral and go through who's got all the rockets and what they've been doing and how hard they've pushed themselves.
• 51:01
  It's just unbelievable what humans have done in aviation in such a short time, and it still blows me away every time I read a story about it.
• 51:12
  On the next episode of Rusty's Garage, we speak to Australian Motorsport Hall of Famer Tim Schenken, who took a chance and hopped on a boat in the 1960s to England to hopefully become a Formula One driver.
• 51:24
  But we got all the way to the truck, into the truck, Peter Shetty there.
• 51:27
  He was in a hell of a state because Enzo Ferrari had come up the night before to meet me.
• 51:32
  They'd had to stay overnight.
• 51:34
  You brushed Enzo Ferrari.
• 51:36
  Well, I didn't know I'd brushed him off until that moment.
• 51:41
  And so still with my overalls on, they took me immediately to a village just near Monza and into the dining room there in the back corner was Enzo Ferrari.
• 51:51
  So with an interpreter, I did my deal there.
• 51:54
  So they probably thought I was super cool, but frankly, I thought I was being tricked.
• 52:03
  Rusty's Garage is written and presented by me, Greg Rust.
• 52:07
  Series producer and editor is Alex Mitchell.
• 52:11
  Audio production by Darcy Thompson.
• 52:20
  Listener.