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Legally Brunette: Amanda Knox · Legally Brunette

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys, thank you for joining us for Legally Brunette.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I'll be your host today Emily Simpson with Shane. First
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: of all, we're going to go into for the bulk
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: of this episode, we're going to go into the Amanda
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Knox story. But first I just want to start with
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: a little update about Brian Coberger because there's been so
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: many things in the news about him, and every time
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I pull up and when I say news, my news
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: sources Instagram. So when I pull up Instagram, very very
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: reliable news in my Instagram feed, lots of things about
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Brian Coburger. So let's just do a little update. I
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: like to do updates on some of the things that
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: we've talked about previously.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: He's still in jail, He's still in prison.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Reports indicate that inmates at the Idaho Maximum Security Institution
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: have found ways to make his life very difficult. According
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: to a retired homicide detective, his name is Chris mcdonnaugh,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: prisoners have been shouting through aravins, banging on doors, and
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: verbally taunting him. I also so read that they have
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: done it in a way where it's very organized. They
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: actually shift. They do it in shifts, so that it's
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: twenty four to seven, so that he.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: Never gets But wouldn't that annoy the other prisoners, Like
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: if I was, like, I.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Didn't murder four people. I don't know.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: That's a good question. I didn't think about that. But
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know if yeah, I don't know. I don't
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: know how they went.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: If they're all on the same page and they're all
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: well to do it, yeah.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Maybe they do it in a way where the people
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: farthest from him take naps while everyone else is tormenting him,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: and then they do it in ships. But anyway, so
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: they've been banging on doors verbally taunting him, and it
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: has been described as psychological torture intended to deprive him
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: of rest and peace of mind. The Idaho Department of
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Corrections confirm that Coburger has voice concerns about what he
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: calls harassment, but emphasize that inmates often communicate with one
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: another through prison infrastructure. Officials have stress that he were
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: housed alone in his cell and that staff continued to
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: enforce safety and order. Basically, they're just like, what do
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: you What are you gonna do about it? And mates
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: have found ways to communicate with each other and so
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: they came up with some organized way to taunt him.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: I actually, I don't feel badly no, I mean, are
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: we supposed to feel badly for Brian Coburger boo?
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: Who Yeah, that's a form of hierarchy too in these prisons.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: This is interesting because after he pleaded or he took
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: his plea deal, all these new documents have been released
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: about the case, and one of them was very interesting.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: It was that he faced many complaints when he was
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: at Washington State. So newly released documents and witness statements
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: revealed that Brian Coberger faced a total of thirteen complaints
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: while he was at Washington State University by the end
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: of just his first semester in his PhD program.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: What were the comlients.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: One student who was divorced were called that Coburger told
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: her he did not date quote broken women, while another
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: student who was deaf, was asked by cob whether she
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: should consider having children given her disability. I guess he's
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: just out there offending everyone, basically. Several classmates and staff
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: reported that he frequently stared and vaded personal space and
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: cornered people into unwanted conversations.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: A lot of those women are probably like, holy crap,
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: he could have he was staring at me, he could
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: have killed me.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I could have been the one on the list.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's really once you I mean, can
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: you imagine learning later that you just went to school
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: with or just you know, had conversations or class with
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: somewhat like a serial killer or.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: Something, that twenty years later he killed someone else, like
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: during that time that semester.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Right, a younger undergraduate working in the criminology department, said
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: she eventually needed rides home from her boss just to
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: avoid walking or taking the bus alone in fear of Coburger.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that's how bad he was bad
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: he is. Administrators ultimately required first year doctoral students to
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: attend discrimination training. This is due to the level disruption
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: his conduct was causing. Isn't that amazing how one person
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: can be so off putting and so bizarre that they
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: have to make an entire class take a training course
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: because of one person's bad behavior. Yeah, but I guess
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: they can't single I guess the point was they can't
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: single him out and be like you behaving and properly.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's education for everyone, I guess.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Right. In another article. It claims that Brian Coberger was
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: a supporter of the death penalty in his PhD program,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: which was in a People article addressing right the irony
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: the irony for other people, not for me. Accounts from
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Washington State University also indicate that Brian Coburger frequently clashed
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: with his peers in the Criminology PhD program, particularly over
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: topics such such as punishment and justice. While most of
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: his classmates opposed capital punishment, he was described as a
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: very outspoken supporter of it. In one classroom exchange documented
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: by investigators, Coberger pressed his argument and support of the
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: death penalty by asking a fellow student imagine if her
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: twelve year old daughter was the victim of rape and murder.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: He asked her, would you then support the death penalty
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: in a case like that? You know, again, it just
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: goes through the irony of the situation that we're talking
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: about someone that was clearly so scared of the death penalty.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And that was a criminology major, right, I mean,
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: he's hanging around crime a lot, so.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: You know, I would say, and this is just a
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: personal anecdote here in my younger years, when I was
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: less wise and less educated, I would say I was
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: a proponent of the death penalty because I think when
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: you're younger or not as educated about the system, I
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: clearly wasn't involved with the Innocent Center at that point
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: in time. You have a very naive approach to the
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: justice system, where you think bad people go to jail
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: and innocent people don't, and guilty.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: If you're found guilty, you're guilty.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: If you're found guilty, you're guilty. If you're in prison,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: you should be there. And if you committed capital crimes,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: then you should be punished for such. However, now, and
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: you and I have had this conversation, because I know
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: you're not a proponent of the death penalty.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: I am not for the death penalty.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: You're not well.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: I am for the death penalty if it's done correctly.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: What would be done, but.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Not killing innocent people?
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: Right? Yeah, So if it's truly someone guilty, yes, and
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: guilty of a horrific crime, not just you know, a misdemeanor. Right.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: So if but the systems flawed enough where I don't
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: think it's a.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Good idea, well that's the problem is is the risk And.
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: You're going to say reward, it's not a reward, but
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: The detriment is outweighs the benefit of capital punishment, because
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: that's exactly just putting one innocent person to death or
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: crime they did not commit, makes you say which happens.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: It happens a lot.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's irreversible exactly. But life, imprisonment or any
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: kind of prison sentence is reversible. You can fix that.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, granted, there's gonna be trauma and time loss,
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: but you can fix that. But you can't fix someone
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: that's dead.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Exactly, all right. Victims families sue over crime scene photos.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: This is an interesting, I guess, not only a legal debate,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: but a moral debate. So the families of Madison Mogan
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: and Ethan Shapin, who we know we're two of the
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: victims and the Idaho murders, have filed a lawsuit against
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: the city of Moscow, Idaho, over the public release of
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: crime scene photographs. Their attorney told News Nation that the
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: families had begun to find a sense of closure after
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Coburger's sentencing, but the publication of graphic images reopened painful wounds.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: While acknowledging that some materials may inevitably become public because
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: of intense interests in the case. The attorney argued that
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: photos showing the victims or the immediate app aftermath of
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: the murders should remain private, calling such images an invasion
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: of privacy. He urged the court to restrict their release
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: and ask the public not to view them if they
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: appear online. He was also reminding people to consider how
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: devastating it would be for the victims' families. I don't
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: know what is your take on that. I did see
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: some of the images.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know what are the rules with that.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: Like, I'm sure it's the state thing, but like, is
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: it public? Are they public images? Like the record becomes public?
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: So did the images? Do they redact them? Like the images? Well,
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: I don't know what because I remember Kobe Bryant. Yeah,
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: you know some officers I think took images or pictures
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: or first responders of some sort.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Right right when it happened, and then released.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: It, right. I don't know how it got released, but
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: it eventually got out there. Yeah, and then Vanessa Bryan
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: sued and she succeeded.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: I think they released them. Wasn't it to TMZ And
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: I don't know, but I just know that they crossed
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: the line with the images, and in court she succeeded.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: She prevailed, so obviously there was some wrong doing. I
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: don't know what the rules are on that. I always
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: wonder that.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: I guess it comes down to it. It's a moral
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: dilemma or is it a legal dilemma. I don't know.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: Is it I would want if it was a tragedy
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: and that involved my family, I would not want those
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: images out there, right, So I can totally understand those
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: images should should kind of be kept. I don't know
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: how you do it, though, because you release file. You
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: release a file, right, and then all it takes is
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: one person just to sneak a photo out there online
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: and it's over. Yeah.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know if there was a differentiation made between
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: the images in between the documents that were released, because
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: clearly after he took the plea deal, all a lot
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: of the documents and the investigation were released to the public,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: and then those images were released as well. Somehow, I
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: don't know if they were released by It might.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Just be an unfortunate thing.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: That's just the way you release the file because public
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: has the access to it, and it's just unfortunate for
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: the victim's families. You know, maybe that's just the way
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: it is. You can't please everyone, you know.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: All right, let's move into the bulk of our conversation today,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: which revolves around the Amanda Knox case. And I will
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: tell you this happened in two thousand and seven. I
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: remember it. It was like it kind of reminds me
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: of like Menendez, where no, I was very I was
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: like sixteen.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: You were sixteen in two thousand.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: So when Menendez happened, I was like sixteen, and I
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: remember being very intrigued by it and watching it on
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: the news. And so in two thousand and seven, with
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: the Amanda Knox story, I was very intrigued by it,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: and you know, I watched the news about it. This
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: is before Instagram, so I guess I was actually watching
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: the news at this point.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: And I and I knew the smary more reliable back
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: we actually in this case, it wasn't very reliable, right well, I.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Mean, she had such a smear campaign against her. But
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: we'll get into that in a little bit. But do
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: you remember the case in two thousand and seven? Do
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: you remember it being.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: In the media.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: I remember, and I think you we talked about it
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: with like together. That's where I learned it from was
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: I did.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I was working with Shane and two aout.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: She was in Italy. This is what my understanding was,
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: which I think is not correct. She was great in Italy.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: She was an exchange student and there was some like
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: sex crazed party or game or something, and as part
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: of that, they killed her roommate and it was like
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: gruesome and their psychos and all that, And that's all
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: I heard.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Because Shane is an example of how the media can
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: take a story and present it in a way and
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: then that is all you take.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: And I didn't look into it.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: I didn't click, I didn't watch the videos and are
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: reporting on it. I just see those headlines and that's
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: what sticks in your head. Say it with the Menendez
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: it just stuck in my head that they're rich kids
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: that killed their parents and that's all you think.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well that was the takeaway, right exactly. All right, Well,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: let's go into the Amanda Knox story and let's actually
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: break it down and let's get into the facts as
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: opposed to just the headlines. So in two thousand and seven,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: a Manonox. She was a twenty year old student from Seattle,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Washington and she was studying abroad in Perusia, Italy, where
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: she lived with another roommate named Meredith Kircher. Now Meredith
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Kircher was not from the United States. She was from England.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: She was a twenty one year old British student.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: Did they know each other prior or they were?
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: They just they were just on this study abroad program.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, So they got it paired up right.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: And Philhemina Romanelli was an Italian trainee lawyer who was
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: also living in the same place, as well as another
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Italian student named Laura Mazzetti. So there's four girls living
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: in this cottage type of home in Perusia, Italy. Amanda
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: first arrives in Perusia and she talks about how she
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: just spent the first couple of weeks that she's there
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: exploring the city and sightseeing and all these types of things.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: She also talks about this is a twenty sixteen documentary
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: that I watched called Amandaox. So a lot of the
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: information that I talk about, a lot of the knowledge
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: that I have comes from that documentary. I've watched it
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: multiple times. I also have watched it multiple times. But
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: then when I'm watching a documentary, I also google things
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: constantly because I like to see the accuracy of it
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: or yeah, well I just like to add more. I
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: like to figure out things. So anyway, if you're interested,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: there's a twenty sixteenth documentary. It's just called Amanda Knox,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: and I believe it's either it's on Netflix or Hulu,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: but I've watched it multiple times. I think it does
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: a really good breakdown of this case and presenting it
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: from all sides.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: And it's like it's a like a dramatization.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: No, it's it's actual interviews. They interview Amanda, they interview
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: the boyfriend, they interview the prosecutor, they interview the you know,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: the journalists from Daily Mail that was the one that
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: wrote all the salacious headlines. Like, they present it from
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: all angles, and I think they do a really good
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: job of it. So Amanda's in Perusia, She's exploring the city.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: She also talks about how she thought this study abroad
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: program was going to be a scholarly program, but she
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: realized quickly that it was basically like a class and
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: that was it. There was much of a workload or
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: anything that went with it. It was it was more like,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: come to hang out in Italy and take some light classes.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: So then she realized she has all night right, so
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: she has all this free time. So she ends up
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: getting a job at a bar in Perugia called Le Chic,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: which was owned by a man named Patrick La Mumba.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: And his name is very important because he's going to
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: come up later. But so far we have key players.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: We have Amanda Knox, we have Meredith Kercher, who's the roommate.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: We have Patrick La Mumba, who owns the bar where
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: she worked, where she worked. And then one night, after
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: she's been in Perusia for a little while, she goes
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: to a classical music concert. I think it was for
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: university students, and she meets her boyfriend who's named Rafaela
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: and I believe his last name is Soli Chito. He's Italian,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: but we'll just call him Rafaeli because I don't want
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: to try to use my Italian accent. It's not very
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: good because you don't have one, because I don't have one. Anyway,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: the two of them meet on October twenty fifth of
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. They meet at a concert. They
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: end up going out that night I believe after the concert.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I think she goes home with him that night and
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: they have dinner and sex, and they'd begin again slow.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: She takes it slow. She's really into taking things slow.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: But anyway, this is I think it's really important to
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: note that this is October twenty fifth because everyone refers
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: to them as like this boyfriend and girlfriend couple that
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: you know allegedly or perhaps committed this murder. But they
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: only knew each other like five days before it.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: Five days a week, yes, so it takes much longer
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: to create like a sex crazed murderactly five.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Days, right, So anyway, they they meet, they instantly fall
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: in love, become boyfriend and girlfriend, and they're inseparable. So
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: let's move on into the actual Meredith Kercher murder. So
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: this is October twenty fifth when they meet at this
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: concert on the evening of Thursday, November one, two thousand
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: and seven. Amanda in Rafaelle were at Rafaelle's apartment that
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: evening and they decided to download Amanda's all time favorite movie,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: which is the movie Ama Lee. I think that's how
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: you say it. It's a French movie. I actually like it.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I've seen it multiple times, it's very good. So at
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: around eight thirty pm, they're watching this movie. And then
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: around eight thirty pm, Amanda checks her phone and she
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: finds a text from Patrick Lamumba. Remember we talked about boss,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: That is the boss that owns the bar. He texts
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: her telling her that he expected the night to be
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: very slow and that she didn't need to come into
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: the bar. Amanda texts back at eight thirty eight pm,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: and she says she says it in Italian, but it
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: translates into see you later. Have a good evening. Now,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: it's really important to remember that. She says, see you later.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Then she turns off her phone. I guess this is
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven. So do people turn do
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: you turn phones off and on? In two thousand and seven?
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Do you remember I was a flip phone?
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: When did the I phone come out?
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: Two thousand and seven? It was a slow start and
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: not everyone ran out and grabbed him.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, so this is November of two thousand and seven.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's pretty much pre smartphones. Okay, you know,
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: for the sake of for purposes of this conversation, it's
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: pretty smartphone, right.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, So she turned off her phone. And she turned
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: off her phone just in case.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: I guess people did turn off phones at night time. Yeah,
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know, that's turn off my phone.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Did you turn off your so yeah? Yeah, we didn't
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: leave them on like you do like an iPhone. Right.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: No, I mean maybe if you plugged it in left
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: all night.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: But I think you did kind of naturally, just like
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: like you turn off your computer or something, right, you
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: turn off.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: I guess because pre iPhones, we weren't completely we weren't addicted,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: we weren't addicted to our phones. They really were just
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: for the purpose of communicating of a phone call, right,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: So I guess that's white people.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: And now it's like, you know, you have to have
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: it twenty four to seven, right.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: So she turns off her phone because she says she
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: doesn't want him to text back and change his mind
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: about working, So she turns off her phone.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: That's like covering your eyes and if you don't see
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: the other person, they don't exists, come in. It doesn't
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: change any Well, I don't.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Know, because if the phone's turned off, does the text
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: not go through? I don't remember flip phones.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: There was a lot more work to text too, with
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: only nine digits.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: You know what I was thinking, though, I feel like
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: sometimes I would like to trade in my iPhone just
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: for a flip phone.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: I'd love to trade in your eye.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: I know you would, because I feel like we just
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: need to go back to simpler times.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Anyway, Anyway, so Rafaelli turns off his phone as well
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: so that they wouldn't be interrupted when the movie ended.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: They ate fish for dinner, they dealt with a leaky
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: kitchen sink, and they smoked a joint. That's that's the
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: thing they did. There was a lot of smoking marijuana
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: and a lot of sex over these six days that
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: they're together. And then they apparently allegedly so they claim,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: go to sleep. Now, this is the evening of Thursday, November.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: First, and I'm sorry, who's home Dan, his or hers?
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: No, they're at his house, his apartment, which clearly is
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: nearby where she was staying with these other girls. I
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: think this is a very small town kind of and
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: so they're at his apartment, just the two of them alone.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: They're watching a movie, they have dinner, they have sex,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: they smoke pot, and then allegedly from what the investigation
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: has turned up, that the estimated window of the time
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: period in which Meredith Kircher was murdered that evening was
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: sometime between nine thirty PM and eleven thirty PM. So
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: that evening Meredith is murdered in they're in her and
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Amanda and Philomena and the other girl, the four girls
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: that live together in their cottage. So the Meredith is
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: murdered that evening in Meredith's apartment that she shares with Amanda,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Amanda is in Raphael's apartment. So Amanda getting it on.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: So Amanda wakes up the next day, so now we're
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: at Friday, November two, and claims that around ten am
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: she goes back alone to the cottage that she shares
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: with the other girls. She found the front door wide open. Now,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: let me ask you a question. If you go home,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: back to your own space, your apartment, your house, whatever,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: and the door is wide open, do you find that
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: weird or do you just go in?
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: Well, I would be a little suspicious, okay, So I
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: wouldn't necessarily be scared, but I'd be a little cautious
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: and wonder why. And I guess I would also just think, okay,
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: one of my roommates left it open. Idia, that's true.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: So she goes home in the morning and the front
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: door is wide open, and I guess you could just say, okay, well,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: three other people, so maybe somebody left it open. That
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: alone is not startling, right. So then she goes to
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: take a shower. So while she's in the bathroom taking
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: a shower, before she gets in the shower, she looks
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: in the sink. She looks at the counter, I guess,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: and there's some blood drops. But again, she's not really
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: alarmed by it. Okay, And I don't know. I put
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: myself in her position in a house, in a cottage.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: I see some blood drops. Again, she's living with other women.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe you cut your fingernail. Maybe it
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: has some to you know.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Well, if you come home right now and the door's open,
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: the door's wide open.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Forget the dog situation, the doors.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: A runaway dog, and you come home and doors open,
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: your first thought would be someone left the door open,
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: like someone that we live with.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Well, we live in a gated community, so my first
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: thought would be one of these kids left a door open.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Well, okay, but if we didn't, you'd probably still think
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: the same thing. Yeah, and then you go upstairs to
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: take a shower or a bath, and then you see
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: some drops of blood.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: What would you think then, nothing, I would think, there
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: you go. I would think someone in this house cut
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: their finger out the door and ran out the door
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: and left the door open.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: All right, So so far not really reason to be.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Alarmed, right, So then I think she also sees that
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: there's a little bit of blood on a shower mat.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: It looks like a footprint or something. I guess. Still,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: she's not really concerned at this point. Yeah, but it's
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: not like a full one and it's just like a
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: little bit of blood. I guess again, I think, and
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: these women and you have to these roommates share bathrooms. Yeah,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: it's not like each person has their own individual bathroom.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: So again, I guess you could write it off as
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: like someone got out small kinds.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: You said earlier. She's just as signed to these roommates,
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: so she doesn't really know them. It's not like she
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: knows their behavior and thinks, wait, why is someone bleeding
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: and left the door open?
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Right, these are four strangers that have all come together, right.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: So then she takes a shower.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: So then she takes a shower, she gets out of
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: the shower, and then she's drying her hair with the
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: blow dryer. And when she's drying her hair with the
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: blow dryer, she looks over and she notices that there's
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: feces in the toilet.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: Okay, so now someone didn't flush the toilet.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: So someone didn't flush the toilet. That is what alarms
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: her that there's something wrong.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: That would upset you.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would be so gross out by that. But
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, I have boys, so I feel like that's
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: normal because they don't always flush the.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Toilet or get it in the toilet or get it.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: That's true too. But the fact that she's these are
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: all young women that live in an apartment, that's not
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: normal behavior. So when she sees that, she becomes immediately
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: alarmed and thinks, okay, now something is off. No, here's okay.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: So when I told you that when I watched documentaries
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: that I like to google.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Things, google feces.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: I googled can you find DNA and feces?
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: I imagine you can imagine you can find a lot
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: of things.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you can find a lot of things, but
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: you you can find DNA because well not only just blood,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: but it said that you can actually get a large
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: sample of DNA because of the the lining of the
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: stomach and testines.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: Well, if you can get it from your mouth, why
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: couldn't you get it from your butt.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm just saying I didn't know if you could.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: You could test feces for DNA, I don't know, because
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: it's waste. I don't know.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: But apparently you can because you can get cells skin
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: cells from the inside of your intestines on the feces
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: and then you know, as it comes.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: Out it probably I have a vision, yes, okay.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I just wanted you to see what I was, what
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: I was working with.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: Anyway, all the forensic scientists are like, no, you tested,
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: you test it.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not testing it all right, I don't know about
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: that part. But so she's concerned now because there's FECs
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: in the toilet, So she leaves. She goes back to
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Raphael's apartment and she tells him there's something weird going on.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, so now she's alarmed.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Now she's alarmed. So the two of them go back
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: together to the cottage. And when they go back together,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: they go in, the door is still open. There's still
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: the blood spatter, there's the feces in the toilet. But
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: this time Rafael notices that there is a broken window
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: that it looks that looks like a rocksman thrown through it.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: I think there's a rock there. And Meredith's door is
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: closed but it's locked and they can't get into her room.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: And they said that was odd, like she normally doesn't
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: do that. So at some point they call the postal police.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: And I know you think this is funny, but apparently,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: apparently in Italy there are two types of police. There's
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: the postal police and the elite police. The postal police
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: deal I don't know why, the postal police, but apparently
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: they deal with tech crimes and then the elite police
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: deal with like actual crime. So the postal police police
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: the elite police. So the police, the postal police come
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: and they come to the cottage and at some point
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know where, I don't know the exact details.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: But also the postal police were aware that Meredith had
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: two cell phones and those were found earlier by like
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: an older woman in her garden.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: And those are tied to Meredith.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: They're tied to Meredith two phones, two.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: Two cell phones, two cell phones in seven in seven Okay,
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: well not everyone even had a phone, Okay.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't know why there were two, but
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: there were two. So then once they arrive at this cottage,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: the postal police are the ones that bust down the
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: door because it's locked. And then that is when they
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: find Meredith's dead body on the floor. She's laying on
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: the floor, she's covered by her duvet and there it's
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: a bloody scene. There's blood on the walls, there's blood
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: on the floor, there's fingerprints, there's just it's a crime scene.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: So now with her whole body covered. I remember were
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: watching this. I thought I heard something that the body
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: was covered, and some investigator was saying that females tend
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: to cover their victims. Yeah, that was which I didn't
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: like it because he made it like that's one hundred
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: percent the way it works. Yeah, I know, all female
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: murderers cover their victims and male murders don't.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, well, this this Italian prosecutor,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: he had a lot of wild theories that he just believed,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: and then I feel like he came up with the
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: theory and then tried to find evidence to back his theory.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Instead of looking at the evidence and coming up with
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: the theory. It's like he made the evidence fit yeah.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: Perpetrator or whatever.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Right, But you're right, he did say that he was
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: very fixated on the fact that he said most.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: Because I didn't watch the documentary, but you were watching it,
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: and he was.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: He was adamant.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he made it like like that, that's that, therefore
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: it's a female murder.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Right, So she was covered by a duvet, you could
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: see her feet weren't covered. But he was very adamant
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: that it had to have been a female murderer because
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: he was claiming that statistically. I don't even know if
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: this is true. If he just made this up. I
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: don't even think that statistic is true. But basically, I
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: never heard anything that female murders cover the body or
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: something like that.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: But I've never heard anything where female murders tend to
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: do this and male murders. I've never even heard a
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: difference like that.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's that's something I
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: didn't google, but I google a lot. So if anybody
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: has any insight into that, please damn me. So, Meredith's
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: body was found lying on the floor partially covered with
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: a blood soaked duvet. She had suffered two knife wounds
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: to her neck and she was partially undressed. Blood was
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: visible on the floor, walls, and around her neck and head.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: The room showed evidence of a very violent struggle. There
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: was overturned furniture, things were in disarray, and her belongings
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: were scattered about. Her cell phones and a few personal
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: items had been taken. And again we talked about how
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: the police ended up coming finding her two cell phones
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: that were and because of an elderly lady I believe
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: found them in her garden or something. So obviously someone
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: was in the house, took some of her personal things
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: and then discarded them later outside of the cottage. So
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: the homicide division shows up. Once the body's discovered, forensic
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: officers took over and everyone was moved out of the
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: house in order to preserve evidence. Officers began photographing and
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: sealing off the rooms. This is when Raphael and Amanda
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: are now not inside the cottage, but they are over
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: standing outside the cottage, And this is where I assume.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: At this point, there's now a word that there's a
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: homicide in this little small Italian town, and the media
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: has arrived and they're video taping or recording the police
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: going in and out of the house, because you can
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: there's I've seen that footage. And they're also taking video
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: of Amanda and Rafael standing off to the side, and
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: this is where they're hugging and kissing. This ends Ida
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: see that part problem and it wasn't her.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, keep going. I did see that part, so
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: I have an opinion on it. Go ahead.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm just saying this is what they captured on
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: on in a recording of them consoling each other or
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: hugging or kissing or making out or whatever you want
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: to call. It was problematic for her because that was
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: initially people just from the offset were saying that it
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: was she that she well, it was inappropriate. Even if
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: if it wasn't like she wasn't, you know, be carrying
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: or or she wasn't emotional. She didn't know this person, no,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: you know, and that was another thing.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: She might have been scared or freaked out, but not
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: like sad.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, as far as what I can tell or what
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: I've read and what I've watched, she and Meredith did
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: not know each other before they went there. They didn't
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: they knew each other briefly, and the time that they
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: lived there, I think they hung out a couple of times.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think they had an amazing friendship by any
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: stretch of the imagine, nor were they really contentious with
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: each other either. I think it was probably more cohabitating. Yeah,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: and so anyway, what they capture is her and RAPHAELI
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: off to the side. And then this is when I
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: think this whole media storm against Amanda because they a
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: lot of people thought that the way she was acting
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: was inappropriate in that particular scenario of what's going on.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: So the locked bedroom door and the way the window
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: had been broken, this is when the detectives first enter
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: the room and they're they're they're collecting evidence. They noticed
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: that the window had been broken and raised immediate suspicions.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: I still don't really understand this.
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: I understand that the dead body didn't raise immediate suspicions.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Well, the window raised suspicions because they thought it looked
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: like it was staged. They didn't think that it was
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: a legitimate burglary of someone outside of the house.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: The alarmed them as that suspicious behavior. It's not literally
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: a broken window that someone broke into to kill her, like,
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: there's something different about it, right.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: They felt as if the broken window because the glass
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: was laying on top, so the room was in disarray
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: some you know, there had been a struggle and there's
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: stuff everywhere, and then the glasses on top of that,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: so that would indicate that the window was broken after
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: the struggle. So their initial thought process was, it looks stage.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: It doesn't look like it was an actual burglary. It
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: looks like someone killing.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: They'll find the glass on the inside versus the outside,
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: And they determined a lot that.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Way, right, And that's it's very smart if you're an
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: investigator to look at things like that. The rest of
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: the house showed little disturbance, valuables weren't taken, and so
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: the scene didn't resemble a typical burglary. So that's what
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: we were talking about. So I think immediately this prosecutor
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: had in his mind that it was staged. Amanda's making
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: out with her boyfriend outside of the house. So I
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: think the theory that they he comes up with immediately
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: is this is off, she's acting weird. She has to
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: be involved in some way. So November two, this is
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: the day the body's found at the scene. Knox gave
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: a basic witness statement recounting her experience from that day.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Then we move on to November third through the fourth,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: so this is when they're investigating. Knox was brought in
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: multiple times for routine questioning as a witness. It's important
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: to note that Amanda was not fluent in Italian. So
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: let's remember that she is there in Perugia, studying abroad
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: and learning Italian, but she does not speak Italian fluently.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: So she's being brought in and she's being questioned, and
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: so far she's only being I don't know what you
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: want to call it, labeled as a witness, not a
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: person of interest at this part. At this point, she
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: admits to smoking marijuana the night of the murder, which
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: she had originally lied about. So this is another problem
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: with Amanda is inconsistent statements m H So November fifth
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: to six, this is when they give her an overnight interrogation.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: So on the night of November fifth, Amanda Knox went
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: voluntarily to the police station. I don't know if this
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: is the night where she was doing the cartwheels, but
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: this is another problem that rubbed people the wrong way.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Was that when she was at the police station and
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: she was being interrogated or investigated or questioned, there was
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: a point in time where I think she was doing
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: yoga poses. I think there was another point in time
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: where she was doing cartwheels. It's just one more thing
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: to add to her behavior is off. She's not acting
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: like someone who just had a roommate that was murdered.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: Well, again, I've said this before, how does someone act I.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Don't know, you know, I don't know. You know. That's
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: a good question too, because the whole time I was,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: you know, going through this documentary and I was reading,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: and I was going through all these things about her,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: and a big, huge part of why I think this
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Italian prosecutor was so hell bent on making her a
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: guilty party was because he did not like the way
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: that she acted. And it reminded me of when we
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: talked to about the Idaho murders and how they didn't
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: call the police until the next day at noon, even
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: though one of the surviving roommates saw an intruder with
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: a mask on in the house.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: And I think I said the same thing, which is like, well,
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: how do you know how someone acts when they're frightened
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: and scared or confused or half awake and tired, and
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: then someone walks in and it's a apartment where it's
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: you know, lots of roommates and lots of activity. No
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: one knows.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's a very good question. I
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: think it's very easy for someone to say, oh, my gosh,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: your roommate's just been murdered and you found the body.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: You should behave like this, or the roommates in the
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Idaho case, where it's like you have roommates that are
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: dead in your house and you heard noises and there
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: were suspicious things going on, and you saw an intruder,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: but you didn't even call police until noon the next day.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: But it's very easy from an outside perspective to look
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: in and say, this is what you should have done.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Why didn't you do that? You're not behaving like you should.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: But you're right, no one knows what you would behave like.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: You don't know what you would actually do if you
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: were put in that situation. No, I don't we get
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: to this overnight interrogation. So on the night of November fifth,
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: a man and Knox went voluntarily to the police station.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: She started being questioned starting around ten thirty pm and
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: continued past one am all the way into November sixth
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Knox was not This is important to remember too. Not
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: only does she not speak Italian, she was not given
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: a lawyer. She's also young, she's in a foreign country,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: she doesn't have parents there, she doesn't have an advocate,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: she has no.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: One male interrogators.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: And you're right, it's probably a bunch.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: Of intimidating because no one's being sensitive to her in
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: any way.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: So they ended up confiscating her phone and saw that
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: she had texted her boss the night of the murders.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: And we talked about this earlier when she was at
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: when she was at Rafael's apartment and her boss, Patrick
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Lumumba texted her and she replied, see you later. So
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: they find that text on her phone. And apparently even
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: in English, when we say see you later, when we
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: say see you later, it's a very vague meaning.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: Right, it doesn't mean well later. There is no exact
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: time for later, right. It could be next week.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: It could be never. Yeah, I mean I've said see
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: you later. Lots of times of people hoping that I
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: never see.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: See them later. They may also want to see you
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: later exactly.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: So when the Italian police find this text on her
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: phone that says see you later, they start interrogating her,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: saying taking it literally, because I guess an Italian, there
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: is no vague interpretation. It has a very strict literal,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: meaning that she is going there so that there are
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: solid plans to see him later. So they start interrogating
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: her about Patrick and when she's going to see him,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: and what time and all these things that they're supposedly
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: going to meet. Because they took this text very literally,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: they accuse her of being a liar, saying she must
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: have met up with Patrick at some point she said
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: such a thing in a text. She later claims she
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: was subjected to hours and hours of pressure, repeated questions,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: and intimidation, including being slapped in the head, until she
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: finally broke down. So what happens during this interrogation is
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: she actually names Patrick as the murderer, her boss, her boss,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: and she gives this account of being there, of hearing
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Meredith's scream, of Patrick being involved, of seeing Patrick in
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: the house, and she signs a confession. She actually signs
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: two confessions, but the two confessions that she signs were
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: written by the Italian investigators.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Has the phony like he pretends he knows how male
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: and females operate.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, So they type out a statement and she signs
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: it at one forty five in the morning. Then there
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: is another statement that she signs at five forty five
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: in the morning, confessing to her and that she was there,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: that the guy named Patrick la Mumba was involved.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Like more supposed facts.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if you want to more.
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: Confession, but no, I know, I know, may or may
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: not be, but more confession.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just saying that like she heard screams and she
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: had to cover her ears.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: And she saw five in the morning.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: I can't even buy the if I if you woke
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: me up at five in the morning and said buy
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: this on Amazon, I probably buy the wrong thing.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: So that's shady right there.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Right, So, as we talked about the two confessions, she
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: signs at one and then another one at five forty five.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Then later that day Knox gave another handwritten note saying
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: that she was confused and that her previous statements were
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: the result of pressure and exhaustion. So then later that day,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: after she signs these two confessions, basically implicating Patrick la
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Mumba and saying that she was part of you know,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: that she was there and that she heard the screaming
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: and things like that. She then goes back and cants
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: and writes this long handwritten note saying that she was
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: confused and that her previous statements were false because they
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: were the result of pressure and exhaustion, also the result
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: of probably not understanding what's going on, not understanding Italian,
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: and not having a representative and not having an attorney.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: And note that's allful.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: How can you have any kind of interrogation when there's
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: a huge language barrier.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: So let me just read a little bit of her
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: handwritten confession because I found it. In regards to this
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: confession that I made last night, I want to make
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: clear that I'm very doubtful of the verity of my
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: statements because they were made under the pressure of stress, shock,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: and extreme exhaustion. Not only was I told I would
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: be arrested and put in jail for thirty years, but
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: I was also hit in the head when I didn't
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: remember facts correctly. I understand that the police are under
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: a lot of stress, so I understand the treatment I
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: received here. She's trying to be nice. She's like, understand,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: I understand why they hit me in my head, because
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: they're under stress too. However, it was under this pressure
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: and after many hours of confusion, that my mind came
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: up with these ant In my mind, I saw Patrick
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: and flashes of blurred images. I saw him near the
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: basketball court. I saw him at my front door. I
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: saw myself cowering in the kitchen with my hands over
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: my ears because in my head I could hear Meredith screaming.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: But I've said this many times so as to make
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: myself clear. These things seem unreal to me, like a dream,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: and I am unsure if they are real things that
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: happened or just dreams. My head has made up to
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: try to answer the questions in my head and the
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: questions that I am being asked. But the truth is,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: I am unsure about the truth. And here's why. And
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: then she goes into more. But I just wanted to
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: read that part because I think it's clear that she's
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: so distorted and stressed and overwhelmed that she doesn't even
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: understand at this point, like they're interrogating her all night long.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: She's do you know when you don't have sleep.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, terrific. You shouldn't be able to sign
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: confessions like pass a certain hour.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: I agree. You know. I can tell you one time
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: I've been the most tired in my life, and it's
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: when I was traveling in Europe and we took like
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: an all night train from somewhere to Rome, and I
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: hadn't slept in probably forty eight hours, and I'm telling you,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: I was delirious. I wouldn't remember any conversation I had.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: You probably could have robbed me and I probably could
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: have been sex trafficked, and I couldn't function. And when
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: people are in that kind of state where you don't
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: have sleep, you go into a dread lake stage.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah you can. You can start to see images, right
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: you hallucinate.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: Hallucinate, that's the word exactly.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: So after this confession, Amanda was formally arrested, along with
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Raphael and along with Patrick La Mumba, who she names
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: in her two original confessions. Amanda didn't know she was
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: charged with murder until after her arraignment three days after
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: entering prison, so when she's arrested, she doesn't even understand
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: that she's being arrested. She doesn't understand what's going on.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: No, she might just think she's going to go and
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: identify or fill out some forms.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: By the way, I found the answer.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: Those two confessions that she signed in the middle of
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: the night were written in Italian. They were supposedly explained
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: to her in English, but they were typed up in Italian,
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: which is like ridiculous.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then she signs it and she doesn't speak Italian, No,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: but she signs off on.
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: She signs it in English.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: They were charged with murder, sexual assault in staging a
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: break into Mislead investigators. Patrick was incarcerated for two weeks
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: before the police confirmed that he had as airtight alibi
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: and then he was released. So they arrest Amanda and
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Raphaela and Patrick. And the prosecutor in this case is
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: hell bent on this being a If you remember the headlines,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: they were so salacious. It had to do with this
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: being like this sex.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: Drug was she found to have?
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Well she was found I think well she was. I
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: think all she had, almost like a T shirt in
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: or underwear, was sexually assaulted and murdered. So this prosecutor
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: is just bit on making this story into this orgy
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: sex game. Situation that Amanda and her boyfriend were involved in,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: and now that she named Patrick, it's this game of
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: the three of them and they all did this to
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Meredith and they're all arrested. Then Patrick ends up having
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: this airtight alibi, so he's let go. So now he's
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: got a he's still there, so he's in the clear.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: But they have what they considered to be evidence against Amanda,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: DNA evidence. And so what happened was on November sixth,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: they the investigators, they search Rafael's apartment because they're looking
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: for the murder weapon. So they go through his kitchen
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: and they look at all these different knives and then
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: they find a knife that they think looks like a
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: knife that could have been the murder.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: Weapon, which is knife.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: So they're just like, oh, that knife looks like it
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: could be the knife that killed her. So they take
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: that knife. But then you know what they do with
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: that knife. They take that knife and they put it
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: in a bag with all the other evidence.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: They mix it with the blood, they mix it.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: With the other evidence that was collected in this murder.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: So all the evidence collected is all together in a bag.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: Shar sharing DNA. Also, if you watch when you can
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: see the footage of the forensic team going in and
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: out of her of the cottage. No one has the
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: booties on, none of the investigators have has matt suits on.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: You know, they're not separating the evidence behavior after a murder, right,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of problems they did with this investigation.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: So they go through Raphael's apartment on November sixth, they
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: find this knife, they test this knife, and what they
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: say is they found Amanda Knox's DNA on the handle
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: of the knife, which, okay, that would make sense because
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: she said that they cooked a lot in his apartment.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: But they also claim that they found a very very
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: very extremely small trace of MEREDITHS DNA on the blade
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: of the knife.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, but you just said it was all mixed, right,
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: because it went from like the kitchen that went and
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: got mixed up with other DNA, right, that's ridiculous. This
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: Italian work is not very good. Well, the elite police
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: police need some training.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: Maybe they should have the postal police to it.
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: Maybe maybe the post police are better.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: So prosecutors claimed that a mixture of Amanda's DNA and
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: MEREDITHS DNA were found in the bathroom sink and on
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: a bidet. However, the DNA sample on the knife was
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: very low quality and possibly mixed with other people's DNA,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: and contamination was likely because multiple people had access to
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: the bathroom. So then on November twentieth of two thousand
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: and seven, someone else is finally arrested. Now, his name
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: is Rudy. I think his last name it's Geddy. Maybe
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: he was arrested in Germany. His DNA is found all
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: over Merediths room, everywhere, on her on the walls, every everywhere.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: So and he also was a known burglar.
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: How did they find this guy?
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Because they did the DNA testing and he's in the system,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: and he's in the system, I assume, and so they
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: found him. His name's Rudy. It's g U E d E,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: but I think it's Gwetty or Getty something like that.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: But anyway, his DNA is all over the room. He's
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: also a known criminal, like he's a burglar. He's burglarized, okay,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: And apparently he also has been arrested previously for some
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: type of sexual assault, so they arrest him. He also
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: confessed on a Skype interview because after they found his
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: DNA all over her room. They had a friend of his,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: They wired a friend of his, had the friend skype
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: him to Skype. Is pre zoom skype Skype. We're talking
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: about flip phones and skyping people. They have him skype
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: him because he fled the Knight of Meritiths murder. He
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: flees Italy and he goes to Germany. So this friend
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: skypes him. He confesses to the friend that he was there,
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: that he murdered Meredith, and that Amanda was not present,
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: and the police have this entire conversation because they're listening
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: to the entire thing. So they extradite him back to Italy.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: They arrest him for murder, but they also keep the
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: murder charges against Amanda and Raphaeli because they are still
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: stuck on this whole orgy sex game.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Like it sounds like it's a.
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: You know, the world is watching because it's it's international, right,
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: because you have Italy in the United States, right, And
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: so maybe they didn't want to back down and make
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: it like oops, sorry, America, it's not her, it was
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: one of ours, and so they're just stuck on it.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: Being a man in ox.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the prosecutor was so stuck on it
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: being a mand in ox. And the other problem is
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: is that the prosecution went to Meredith Kircher's family and
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: said it is absolutely Amanda Knox. And when they told
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: her family that they cannot they can't psychologically break from that. Yeah,
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Yea, even though the
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: evidence is clear in another direction.
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: Probably needed someone to point the finger at, right, because
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: they were just so confused. So when that was given
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: to him, then they're probably they're running with it, right,
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: because then it makes him feel like they have us,
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: you know, they've solved the crime. Right.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: So although Rudy was arrested and had previously said that
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: Amanda had nothing to do with this this crime, she
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: wasn't there, he now helped authorities by making a statement
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: placing Amanda and Rafaeli at the murder scene. He claimed
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: it was a fight over money between Amanda and Meredith.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: So basically, when Rudy isn't talking to police and he's
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: talking to his friend over Skype, he says Amanda wasn't there,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: she had nothing to do with it. I did it
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: because he doesn't know the police are listening. So he's honest, right,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: and he's just talking to his buddy. But then after
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: he's arrested, he then he starts implicating her, because clearly
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: that's what after your arrests said. You're like, oh wait,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: it wasn't me, It's not my DNA everywhere, it is her.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: She was there Skype?
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: What Skype?
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: What Skype?
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: Let me.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the media in this case, because, as
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: we talked about previously, the media frenzy over Amanda Knox
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: was insane. In this twenty sixteen documentary I watched, there
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: is a journalist for The Daily Mail name Nick Pisa,
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: and he drives me absolutely nuts. He is so excited
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: to talk about all the cover pages he got because
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: he was reporting on Amanda Knox, and he talks about
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: journalistic integrity. However, all of his headlines are foxy Knoxy
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: and sex crazy, drug fueled orgies. And he's not presenting
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: this case.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: He's not researching.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, is he writing articles about the the
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: problem in the DNA analysis? Is he writing articles about
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Rudy being there in his DNA everywhere and Rudy's confession?
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: Is he writing articles about how she's being interrogated in
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: a language she doesn't understand? No, you know what he's doing.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: He's getting on her MySpace page and he's finding.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: Now we have flip phones, yes, Skype and my Space.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: So he gets on her MySpace page and there is
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: a photo of her. So before she went to Perusia,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: I guess her and her sister went to Germany and
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: they went to this World War two museum and there's
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: a picture of her in her MySpace page, like holding
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: this machine gun and like laughing.
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: Well there's the murder weapon.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: So they take that photo and they blast that photo
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: everywhere like she's like, she's a maniac, she's a murderer,
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: she's a crazy psycho.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Look at her this World War two machine gun.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: Then they find a picture of Rafaeltium, probably on his
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: MySpace page, of him dressed up for Halloween with a hat.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: So these tabloid, these these media photos are of her
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: with a machine gun and him with a machete, and
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: it's all about they're these crazy, crazed, you know, murderers.
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: Did they searched their Aol accounts?
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know, probably, but they called her Foxy Noxy
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: because that's what she that's what she called herself on MySpace,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Foxy Noxi, Foxy Noxy and then that became her moniker.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: So it was like everything was like Foxy Noxy and
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: all these images of her and it was a media storm.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Now you tell me how this girl can get a
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: fair trial when the media has already condemned her.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and you know what. The other interesting thing
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: is Rudy and she signed confessions supposedly.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and the thing about Rudy is he's clearly
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: he's guilty. He's guilty. There was no.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: Media, No, he's one of them.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: No media surrounding was the Italian Well no, he he
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: was from somewhere else European, European I think, and he
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: was living in Italy and then he fled to Germany.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: He was kind of a drifter. It seemed to me
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: like just you know, but there was no media coverage
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: when he was arrested, and there was no there was hardly.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: Eight I never heard of him, not that I researched.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: But any media coverage when he was on trial and
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: he was found guilty of the murder. Nothing, No one
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: was interesting.
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: He was selling guilty of the murder.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, well so was she initially.
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: Oh wow, yeah that and see I never heard that, right,
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: I'm proving your theory.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: Right, all right, So we get to Rudy's trial. Rudy
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: goes on trial. He's convicted trial. They have separate trials.
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: So does he speak Italian?
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: I don't. I think he does speak Italian. So he
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: goes on this fast track trial. I don't know what
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: that means. This must be an Italian thing. But this
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: trial allowed for a shorter process before only a judge,
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: no a speedy trial, no live witnesses, and a one
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: third reduction in sentence if you're convicted. So his fast
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: track trial begins in Perugia. This is in two thousand
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: and eight. He's convicted of murder, sexual assault, and theft,
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: and he sentenced to thirty years in prison, but it's
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: later reduced to sixteen years because of he because he
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: did the fast track. When I think fast track, I
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: think when I drive on.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: The That's funny.
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: It's like, if you choose for a speedy trial, you get.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: Like half this sentence. So anyway, he only so he
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: so he sexually assaults and murders this young girl, and
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: he goes to prison for sixteen years.
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: Would you want to do that? Would he be like, Oh,
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: I have a quick, that's weird.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: Well guilty, I would take a fast track.
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well you would try to also, you know, fight
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: it and not be guilty. Found guilty, Okay.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: So then Amanda and Rafaelle go on trial, and this
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: is in two thousand and eight. This is after Rudy
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: goes on trial and Rudy's found guilty. The preliminary hearings
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: examine whether there is enough evidence to go to trial.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Amanda and Rafaelle maintain that they were alone in their
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: apartment at the time of the murder. So then they
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: go on trial in Perugia in January through December of
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. So this first trial takes almost
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: a year. And wow, okay the chief prosecutor actually and
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: let me say one more thing. While she is in prison,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: they mess with her because they tell her that she
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: has AIDS and she didn't. Do you believe that?
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: Wow? They're like, we just took a blood sample and
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: you have AIDS.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: Yes. So then she's completely freaked out, thinks she's going
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: to die, and she writes this journal talking about how
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: she has AIDS and then she writes down all of
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: her all the guys that she slept with and whether
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: she's a condom or not, and I think there was
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: like seven men. She's twenty something. She had sex apparently
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: with seven guys. Then they get a hold of this
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: journal that she hand wrote in prison, and that reporter
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: I was talking about, Nick Peas that gets a hold
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: of it and he wants to he publishes it.
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: Just the part that I slept with all these people
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: kind of yeah.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: So then they then again it just feeds into that
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: media frenzy of her being this you know.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: Crazy sexy, well foxy.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: Nazi, foxy noxie. So the chief prosecutor called about twenty
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: witnesses to discuss it.
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: As this is early in the internet days too. Imagine
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: if like it was today, if Foxy NAXI would have
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: like a whole trail of stuff for them right to find.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: All right, So the prosecution calls like twenty witnesses. Then
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: the defense comes on and the defense began presenting its case,
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: with Amanda taking the stand as the primary witness. Rafaeli
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: did not testify. His attorneys decided it was strategically better
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: to keep attention on Knox, so Knox appeared confident while
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: testifying and carefully addressed questions about her unusual actions such
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: as showering after discovering the blood in her shared bathroom,
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: and why she initially accused Patrick La Mumba. She described
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: being slapped twice during her interrogation, demonstrating the strikes for
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: the court. She explained, quote, they were yelling at me
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: and I only wanted to leave and I was thinking
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: about my mom, who was arriving. Soon after she finished,
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: her lawyer praised her performance, saying she had done very well.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: When the trial resumed after a two month summer recess,
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: a series of expert witnesses debated the forensic evidence. The
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: defense challenged the prosecution's DNA findings, arguing that they were
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: unreliable obviously because of all the contamination, and requested that
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: the judge authorize an independent review of the DNA. The judge, however,
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: denied the request, and both Amanda and Rafaela were found
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: guilty of murder on December fourth, two thousand and nine.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: Amanda is sentenced to twenty six years in prison and
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: Rafaelle is sentenced to twenty five years in prison.
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: And so she was in prison for two years. I
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: think four, Well, no, two, you're right, I'm sorry, but
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: seven ninety two years.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, sorry, I went to law school. I don't do
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: math very well. Then in twenty eleven comes around their
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: first chance at an appeal. So Amanda and Rafaelle appeal
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: to the Court of Appeals of Perugia and their convictions
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: are overturned on appeal. This is in twenty eleven. The
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: court ruled that the DNA evidence was unreliable, that Amanda
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: was coerced into making statements and those were inadmissible, and
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: both were acquitted and released from prison in twenty eleven.
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: Okay, so she's oh, so she was in there, So
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: she was in there for four years.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you were correct in that sense.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I knew there was four years. So she actually
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: spent four years in prison in Italy. So she was
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: arrested in two thousand and seven, put into prison, and
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: then she got out on appeal in twenty eleven. So
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: she spent four years in an Italian prison. Then Amanda
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: returns to the United States and Rafaela resumed his life
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: in Italy.
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: Then they broke up, well, they they broke.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Up when they were in prison. There's some letters going
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: back and forth between the two eleven and they're not together.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: I mean they only dated five days or six days.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, we keep acting like this is this big,
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: like like long term Roman. You know what? This is
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: what I keep thinking about Raphael. That guy wishes he
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: never went to that music concert that night. Can you imagine, right,
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: this guy just went to a concert, saw a cute
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: blonde American girl, thought she was pretty, took her home,
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: made her dinner, had sex with her. The next thing,
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: he ends up in prison in Italy for four years.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: So the Italian prosecutors appealed to the Supreme Court, and
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen, the Supreme Court orders a retrial in Florence.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: She's now in the States.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Though, right, yes, so she's home, but now she has
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: to be tried again.
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: And I assume that we extraditeer or whatever.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: No, she doesn't. They actually allow her to stay in
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: the United States and her lawyer represents her for this.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: Well that's a big suspense. Yeah, it's like at homegoing
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: what happened today?
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: I know about me?
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: If you watch the twenty sixteen documentary, it shows her
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: at home waiting for kidding the verdict. Can you imagine? No?
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: Right, then I would be planning my escape.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, where are you going?
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know, but I have a backup plan. Yeah,
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: Raphael's got overturned too, right, Yeah.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: He goes home to the United States, he goes on
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: with his life in Italy. Then the prosecution appeals that decision,
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: so now it goes to the Supreme Court. So now
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: there is a retrial that they don't have to be at,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: so they're not there in person. So the prosecution presented
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: some of the same evidence but relied on a different
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: interpretation than In January of twenty fourteen, Amanda and Rafaelle
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: were again found guilty of meritith murder. Amanda, who was
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: in the United States at the time, was sentenced to
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: twenty eight and a half years in prison, this time,
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: with Rafaela receiving twenty five. So now they've been reconvicted
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: on this new trial.
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: Unreal.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: So March twenty seventh of twenty fifteen, they're finally acquitted
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: because they appeal that verdict. So Amanda and Rafaela appeal
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: the verdict and it goes to the Italian Supreme Court.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: The Italian Supreme Court definitively ecquits them, ending a nearly
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: decade long legal battle in Italy. The court stated that
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: the evidence was insufficient and unreliable, and they confirmed that
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: the only person definitively involved in Meritith murder was Rudy Getty.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: Wow can you imagine going through that how psychologically?
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean I she probably never finished school
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: or anything, but she did.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, good for her home.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: She went home and she finished school.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, stopped going to concerts, probably doesn't go to
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: doesn't have a roommate.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, she ended up getting married. She has a husband,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: she has two children.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: Now that's good. You know, if there's any any prison
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: to be in, I guess it would be an Italian prison.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Why do you think because you get cheese and pasta.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Alfredo.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: It's like, we have the best cells, we have top quality,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: we have three hundred thread count.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true, but I don't know.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: Well I take my chances in Italy, all right.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: So, finally an Italian court upheld Amanda Knox's twenty twenty
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: four slander conviction for falsely accusing Patrick la Mumba. So
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: even though she was finally, finally, finally freed of the
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: murder charges and the sexual assault, she still has the
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: slander charges against her, and I guess you were saying
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: we were talking about this earlier where.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah explained the slander charges from who.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: Well, when she named Patrick la Mumba in her confession,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: he sued her for slander and she was convicted of that.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: But you were saying here in the US, when when
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: you're being interrogated, like you wouldn't have been hell old.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: There's something called quasi immunity. So it's like, you know,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: if I'm suing someone and then we go to court
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: and I'm at the podium and then I say he's lying,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: he's a liar, he stole. That could be defamation if
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: if it's proven to not be true. But in a
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: court you have protection because otherwise no one would make
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: any allegations in courtroom.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: Right. Well, and that's what we talked about earlier.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know if her interrogation or excuse me, her
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: confession written confession, and that should be protected otherwise she
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: would be fearful to anyone would be fearful to put
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: anything in writing because it could be used against him.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: Right And that's the problem because she did name Patrick
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: after she But here's the thing. If the court finds
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: that she was coerced, you know what I mean, and
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: then the slander charge should be thrown out as well
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: because it doesn't right.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Right as a result of But anyway, that was upheld.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: I guess at this point she's like, fine, you want
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: to slap me with a slander charge, take it out
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: in prison for four years and I've been going through
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: this for ten. So in twenty eighteen, she married Christopher Robinson,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: an American author. Together they host a podcast called Labyrinths,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: and they have two young children, a daughter and a son.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: She also continues to speak out. I do know, you know,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: I work a lot with the Edoson Center. She's actually
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: a board member at the Edison Center. She is an
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: advocate for the wrongly convicted. I've also seen her speak.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: I think it was maybe I'm trying to figure out
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: when it was, but I think it was back in
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: maybe twenty eighteen.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: I might be earlier than that.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: I went to LA and I watched her speak. It
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: was really interesting. She wrote a memoir called Waiting to
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: be Heard back in twenty thirteen, which details her time
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: in Italy, the trial, and her perspective on being wrongfully accused.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: Despite her public presence. Knox has also sought privacy and
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: strongly advocates for victims' rights and media accountability. She continues
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: to reflect on her experience to help others understand the
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: consequences of wrongful accusations. And now, currently, Amanda Knox has
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: teamed up with none other than Monica Lewinsky. Oh yeah,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: and they have teamed up to make a new Hulu
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: limited series called The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox, which
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: I am very excited to watch. It is not a
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: documentary style, it is a reenactment like one like The
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: menindaz One. So Amanda Knox and Monica Lewinsky have collaborated
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: together on a new limited series about Knox's life entitled
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox. It is now streaming
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: on Hulu and Disney Plus. And Lewinsky appeared on Good
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: Morning America. They're on a media tour now. I keep
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: seeing that every time I get onto my newsfeed, which
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: is Instagram. But they're doing their press now because of
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: this new Hulu series that's coming out, and they described
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: why their partnership made sense. Lewinsky noted that both women
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: were publicly vilified at a very young age and became
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: distorted versions of themselves in the press. Knox added that
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: while their situations were different, they shared the same experience
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: of being interrogated and misrepresented on a world stage. Both
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: Knox and Lewinsky emphasize that the show acknowledges Meredith's kircher.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: Knox stress the importance of ensuring Meredith was portrayed as
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: a real person, not just a character in the story,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: noting that her presence continues to shape her life even today. Actually,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: and I thought this was interesting too, because I didn't
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: know if Amanda and Rafael were in touch currently. I
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: didn't know if they were friendly. I didn't know if
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: they hated each other. I didn't know what their standing
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: was as of today. But it said that Raphael made
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: a public appearance at the premiere in New York City,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: and that was just a couple of days ago. So
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: and then also I learned that in twenty twenty two,
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: Amanda Knox and Rafael reunited together in Italy when she
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: was there traveling with her family, and they met in
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: this small Italian town called Goobio. I don't know if
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: I'm saying that right, it's Gubbio. Because they had planned
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: to take a day trip there together the day that
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: Meredith was murdered. So clearly they're on good terms. And
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: he claims that when they're together, they don't talk about
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: any of this situation. They don't talk about prison, they
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: don't talk about being convicted, they don't talk about.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: At some point they did and now they've moved on right.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: All right, anyway, thank you guys so much for listening
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: to the Amanda Knox story. Again. You can watch the
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: new Hulu series The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox coming up,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: and I think, well, once we watch it, we'll probably
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: talk about Amandaox a little bit again, just to add
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: if there's any new insights in that as well. This
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: is I found this story truly intriguing. I hope you
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: guys do as well. Also, one other thing that's very interesting,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: Shane and I will be interviewing Amanda Knox in person
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: coming up soon. So when you're listening to this or
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: you're watching the Hulu series or the documentary that I
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: talked about from twenty sixteen, what questions do you have
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: for Amanda DM me, because I would love to know. Obviously,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: we have questions that will come up with but also
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: we want to know your insights. What would you like
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: to ask her that we can ask her that day.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: So anyway, thank you guys so much for listening to
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Legally Brunette. Thank you, thank you,