Latest / Skin Anarchy / Inside the Future of Exosomes and Regenerative Beauty With Dr. Ivy

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Inside the Future of Exosomes and Regenerative Beauty With Dr. Ivy · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back to the Skincare Community.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to be with our guest today because she is truly a leader in aesthetic medicine, dermatology.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: She's innovating the space of skincare with her beautiful new brand that I've been absolutely obsessed with.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a great opportunity for us to discuss exosomes.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of you have heard about them.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: They're definitely buzzing right now in the industry and you know on social media, but no one's really talking about the science.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is a really great opportunity for us to understand that.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love to introduce you guys to Dr.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Ivona Egritz.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Dr.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Ivy.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to host you.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, hi.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very happy to be with you today and uh to explain something more about exosomes because my big passion lies in regenerative medicine.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I dedicated my work and all my travel to Asia to exosomes and also to stem cells.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: So now something that legally we can use in skincare, in treatments, in clinic and also out of clinic are definitely exosomes.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I would love to actually learn more about you and your background because I know it's very, very impressive.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you've worked in so many different countries, you have great grasp, right, of the whole um understanding of aesthetics, and you've written books, and I'd just love to learn more about you.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you could tell us what led you into medicine, when did you know that you wanted to be a doctor?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think uh that's that's a brilliant question.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I come out of a family of medical doctors.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I'm third generation of medical doctors in my family, and believe it or not, I did not know anything else.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I remember my early years being in my mother's practice and you know, playing with with all the stuff she had around, exposed in in her clinic, and uh somehow there was it was a natural way for me, for my brother, and uh we finished in in medical world, but I just did not know what I want to be.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: I had cravings and love for pediatrics because most of the practitioners in my family were pediatricians, and uh my mom was a dentist, so I decided to take both ways and joined it into surgery.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I was uh actually uh oral surgeon by education, but uh I was also specialized and I did my PhD on bone regeneration.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: At the time, everything was about BMP proteins and stem cells, but just empirically.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I decided to leave Europe and dive into Asia because Asia gave me an opportunity to try something clinical with stem cells.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, wow, that's really fascinating.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean I feel like there is a lot more flexibility in eastern countries with trying to you know go further, right, with the science.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the US is very, very uh restricted, I know, you know.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, same as Europe.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, same as Europe.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: But China at that time was just blooming, it uh it was very open for for new treatments.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: And in the moment I came to China, Hong Kong, Singapore, everything was about aesthetics.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: We all know that uh China is uh was in communism, but prior to communism there was Taoism, which was somehow enhancing uh very open for all the beauty, uh beauty treatments, connecting them actually with well-being and not with vain, like in the Western world, but with something which is connected to health.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you are beautiful and it it means in China you are healthy, and uh yeah, and then it was somehow natural that uh after communistic time when everything started to happen and China started to rise, uh also this craving for beauty was was incredible there.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: China, South Korea, all these countries were just blooming and they were very, very open.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: And China invested a lot of money in research in biotech industries, and I was also part of the biotech industry, so I was doing research and developments of different European injectables, and uh uh yeah, I somehow found a great ground and the great Disneyland, I would say, in China, because whatever I was dreaming of, I could somehow make happen at that time in China and South Korea, and everything started there.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: I would say Asia was the cradle of all this new wave uh in in minimal invasive aesthetics and anti-aging.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm talking about 25 years ago.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, no, that's really fascinating because I think you know, when I think of aesthetics in the US, I've you know, I've been most exposed, right, to the US system of how people are are looking at aesthetics and talking about it.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's I mean the approaches seem very redundant, you know.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm curious what how did all of this experience shape your understanding and your approach towards aesthetics overall?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would say uh that's a brilliant question because uh Asian countries opened me on a very, very holistic approach to beauty, to well-being, to anti-aging.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it was impossible for me, and it is still now to think okay, I have a patient uh who is going to come for a few injectables, and that's it, that's beginning and the end.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a part of this journey.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: I watch on aesthetics and beauty like a marathon rather than a sprint.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I always think it's all about how we eat, how we sleep, how we, you know, it's much more bigger than any clinical approach or anything we apply on our faces, is the lifestyle, actually.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: So this is where Asia shaped me on a um on a very precise way, uh, on a very, very holistic approach.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's very interesting.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know you've written books and you've explored the mathematical side, you know, to beauty, especially with facial symmetry.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know uh, you know, a lot of us know about the golden ratio, it's talked about a lot, you know, in just I guess normal conversation now, you know.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: But what inspired you to study beauty from that angle?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like bringing in the math and yeah, again, a brilliant question, because you see, that's uh that's my uh knowledge in uh in dentistry, orthodontics actually, and cephalometric analysis.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So cephalometric analysis is part of orthodontics, uh, which is on a way defining geometrically precise growth of the bone and skeleton of human face, and as well as as right positioning of the soft tissues.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: So everything is already there for us.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: We have all these parameters or the right angles, uh, uh, which are set up for beauty, but also beauty lies in some little tiny imperfections, some little tiny charming things on our faces.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I somehow had a holistic approach towards all that.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So beauty is in geometrics and mathematics, but also it's uh something much more individual than that.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, in terms of like, you know, I I think a lot of people have very many misconceptions, right?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And in terms of understanding just how a face should look.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I remember back in when I was growing up, like, you know, uh people used to talk about certain celebrities, and they would be like, oh, you know, they're very symmetrical, their face is very symmetrical.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I would be staring at these pictures, you know, like trying to figure out like what is it that they're talking about, you know.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd love for you to address this, you know, what's one misconception that you think people have about symmetry or proportion when it comes to the face?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think uh beauty is definitely uh everything close to symmetry, but I was analyzing in one of my books uh actually is uh is symmetry 100% beauty, and what I concluded at the end being 100% symmetric is rather boring than beautiful.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: So beauty comes from inside, and uh beauty is connected to our special features or special mimics on the faces.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very important when we treat the face, when we do botulent toxin treatments, especially, not to freeze the face because we kill the best part of uh identity of special person or human, and also to keep certain imperfections, to make it more real and to give it a special charm or uh I would say underline uh uh this individual individual beauty.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: So beauty is close to symmetry, I would say, not symmetrical, and beauty is is is something special with what we can define on those uh faces.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's what always uh fascinated me in this aesthetic medicine, actually, is uh very, very comprehensive knowledge of anatomy, comprehensive knowledge also of sculpturing.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: I used to do sculptures when I was young.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh this is I think the talent I inherited from my late grandfather, who was a sculptor, and I somehow combined all that into uh into modeling the faces, re-sculpturing the faces.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And also very, very important thing is to understand the social aspects of beauty.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was working in China, I was working in South Korea, I was also working in working in India, and it was really interesting when I would come on those markets because I used to be uh president of the American Academy of Facial Aesthetics, so I would set up uh education trainings uh for different dentists and actors in uh in this area, Southeast Asia.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: But before I would come to new market, I wanted to be briefed about social aspects of beauty.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's very, very interesting, especially on Far East, because position of the ears, for example, height of the nose, bridge, uh, then uh width of the temples is so different than in our Western culture.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we could really easily make a mistake on those faces if we are not briefed clearly what an Asian Far East Asian lady wants, or Far East male patient wants.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's very, very important to consider all of that before doing any treatments to uh to different people uh who belong to different social backgrounds.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is so unique, and you know, I've I've never really been able to speak to a doctor that's so well versed in this because I always wonder, you know, we look at aesthetics and we look at uh facial rejuvenation, but then no one speaks about the cultural differences, you know, that exist, like in terms of obviously the geometry of everyone's face, depending on what race you are, where you where your ancestors were in the world, right?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: When you were when the world was developing, that's a huge player in how our face is set and like exactly what you said, you know, like with things like ears or like the nose or these things play a huge role.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know why no one speaks about that.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And also when I look at somebody sometimes who has gotten some work done, sometimes it almost feels as if the person who did the work, they didn't know how to translate in terms of this is not this face doesn't have the features of what my normal patients have, you know what I mean?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to adapt and I have to actually think about this individual.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've seen that a lot where people refer to them as like botched surgeries, you know?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and that really makes you wonder that there needs to be this more global training when it comes to really understanding facial rejuvenation and any kind of surgical procedures, you know.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, yes.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was always upset because, you know, I have European background, but I have licenses in a lot of different European countries, like in Austria and Croatia and Slovenia, in uh Switzerland, Italy, you know, it's already those countries who are so small and so close one to another have different social aspects of beauty.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't inject on the same way or approach on the same way one Swiss lady and one English lady.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very, very different.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: But uh then when we talk about Far East and then uh I don't know, London, this is night and day.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think of medical trainings definitely should be much more bit of a different training uh for Far East Asians, even Koreans and and and Japanese have different requirements in beauty, and also anatomy is a bit different as well, and what I said before social aspects, and the most different part of the face, you know what it is for injecting or for approaching, it's somehow always the nose, I find out.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, the shape of the nose, right?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I can imagine because usually that's the first thing that actually to the normal eye, when you look at someone's face and you feel like you know, people always say this, right?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: They say so-and-so has gotten work done.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: When people say the first thing that comes to mind is the nose, because that's where I think you can see it the most, you know.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what you said as well.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's so important that with whatever face we do, uh, some work, that this work stays undetected.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Not that somebody's kind of pointing the finger on that face saying, Oh, you did your cheeks, or I don't know, you did your lips.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: It has to be blended into one.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I developed the treatment called face design long, long time ago.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because I truly believe that beauty lies in this undetected, that beauty is meticulous and lies in this undetection.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: So uh people have to comment about you.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, you look so nice, so refreshed, something is great about you, but not like kind of point the finger and oh, your lips are done.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's the worst aesthetics, I think.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: That that that drives into these botched bot jobs.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it I think that's one of the biggest question marks I always had was this idea of, you know, well, if you're going to, you know, for a lot of the surgeons that I would see them doing this, I'd be like, yo, your job is to make this person feel more beautiful, you know, at the end of the day.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if if they feel like everyone can tell that they've gotten something done, you know, and now this becomes a new insecurity for that person, you know.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like a it's just it's a lot, it's a lot to take in.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I love that.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: I love your approach.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: People can really learn from that, you know.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think that when it comes to medical education, I'm a huge believer in like international education.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like I really think that doctors need to expand their horizons, you know what I mean?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they need to go to other places in the world, they have to see different techniques and understand, you know, that there are serious cultural, anatomical, various different, you know, differences in people.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to be able to grasp that in your practice.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's talk about skincare.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: I love your line.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm obsessed with the idea.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's beautiful, and you know, I want to like tell us all about it.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where where did you come up with the idea and you know what led you to wanting to work with exosomes?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: If you could tell us about you know the background of how it started.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: So in Asia I was very early exposed to stem cells and stem cell anti-aging, stem cell rejuvenation.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: So not just empirically, but also clinically, and I've fallen in love with this approach of regeneration of all the facial tissues.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I did my first uh stem cell forum 2011.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine at that time in Europe, and uh at that time people were thinking this is a witchcraft.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now we all know about those stem cells and uh we all know how powerful they can be, but again, in Vestenval, there is not enough uh uh medical trials, not enough experience with with with number of stem cells which can bring to certain tissue rejuvenation or regeneration.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So closest we can get to those stem cells were uh where exosomes.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And believe it or not, when I was working with stem cells, because in the labs, when you develop stem cells and you culture them, then there are exosomes uh present.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: But at that time we thought that this is just a waste, this is just a product of stem cell which can be thrown away.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: But then 20 years ago they started to talk about uh different uh particles inside of these little tiny vesicles, like they found messenger and growth factors and all these beneficial little important molecules, and somehow the conclusion came to the point that exosomes are basically like little messengers, like DHL, bringing information from one cell to another.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: So they're very, very interesting, and and uh somehow the idea that I can bridge the gap in between uh clinical practice and in between skincare line with something which is new and which can give to my patients a possibility that at home they work on their cell level and on changing of the cell information of their fibroblasts, for example, to produce collagen.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: It it was so tempting.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I found uh very good support in German biotech, and somehow we came to the idea to produce the first exosome line in Europe.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's that's really fascinating.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what the thing is with exosomes, you know, I have was very skeptical when I first heard about them, you know, because in the West, I think they one, there's lack of education, that's the number one thing.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then two, you know, you'd only hear selective information.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: So many times the papers that are published, or maybe somebody is citing something, it's not telling you the whole story, and it it's very difficult to understand how do these things work when it comes to especially like delivery methods, you know, one of the biggest questions I have about exosomes, and I'd love for you to educate me, is that, you know, as you said, exosomes are waste particles, you know, they're carrying waste from cells outwards, right?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so how does that work when you're incorporating them as delivery systems?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because I would think that the surface proteins have to be modified, right?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: For the docking and for then for them to enter actually into certain areas.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean they have to be modified in the labs, and uh exosomes actually uh they have a lot of good advantages.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're first nanoparticles, they're very, very tiny, and they can ally us with with the membrane of the of the human cell in the process of endocytosis, and actually during the incorporation in uh in Germany, during the incorporation in all this skinker line, we have to change, like you said, expressions on their uh tiny membranes, and that way they would be more lipophilic and get uh penetrate into the cell.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: But in the moment when I finish those exosomes and out of our research, 43.5 million was quite enough to kick into the rejuvenation process into one month.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was reading a lot of publications and a lot of new uh exciting things happening with uh different light wavelengths of the different lights like yellow, blue, and red light, and lasers, radio frequency, and uh and EMS.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, combination of all of that can imagine uh push exosomes to work even harder and stronger and bring this rejuvenation or intracellular level 170 to 200 times more.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, very interesting for me was that exosomes in conjunction with yellow light uh from LAD mask uh can bring into uh clearing the skin imperfection and tone.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: We all know that this is the months of rosacea.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, for rosacea patients would be very useful on long term to work with exosomes together joined with yellow light.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: The only problem with all those kinds of treatments with exosomes and light therapy or low-level laser therapy or radio frequency is that it's regenerative, so needs time to kick in.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's not quick like it would be, for example, botulant toxin, three to four days you see the first results.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: So needs time that the body somehow um uh kicks in with the right number of exosomes.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Normal people, for uh 43.5 million, I would say normal population, but somebody who is maybe more hard to response needs longer time than one month, so five to six weeks to to see the first uh uh first results.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: But they are absolutely beautiful, and I think this is the future.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's very exciting, and you know, it's interesting because when when we were looking at these new technologies, you know, what for me what comes to mind is very dated dermatological drugs that have been used, you know.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a I'm a big advocate for this, and you know, some people might hate me for it, but I think that dermatology drugs are outdated, you know.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think that when you get like accutane when you're 15 years old, right, for acne, or when you get these really ridiculous prescriptions for retinol and retinol and you know, tretinoin, it's it's damaging your skin, you know, it does.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: And there's been studies and people can see, you know, any scientist can see that, right?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're completely destroying your skin barrier and and they're using things from like such a long time ago.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's a huge problem I have, you know, myself as a physician, because I think that there's better options, you know, out there.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would love for you to explain, you know, what can people expect from, you know, something like this?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like you've developed this very cutting-edge, you know, breakthrough line versus traditional treatments that they get, maybe even over the counter, like retinol, vitamin C serums, like all of these.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: What's the big difference here between them?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is a very, very interesting question.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I can compare that uh as a symptomatical use of drugs, right?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: So when a kid has uh a fever and then we give we give to the kid paracetamol, and that's it done.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: And here we are treating cold.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: So with regenerative medicine, we are trying to reprogram the cells, we are trying to boost collagen, we are trying to speed up the cell turnover, we are trying to reduce on inflammation, we are trying to uh modify ATP acceleration of production, cellular energy, we are trying to reduce on oxidative stress.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's it's a totally different approach, I would say.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's a more uh core approach to the problem.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: So core approach, tackling the core approach to anti-aging, to to beauty, to everything, rather than tackling a symptom.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: And as you said, bringing out a lot of different uh side effects of the medication.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: I totally agree with you, by the way.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, no, it's very interesting.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I I trained a little bit internationally, and one of my mentors, he was a Nigerian trained doctor, and he told me he said, you know, one of the biggest differences between the medicine that is practiced in the West, right?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like in the US and compared to everywhere else, is as doctors and everywhere else, we use our hands, you know, we use our intuition, we use our
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Got and we don't give medical IQ, Doctor Medical IQ, which we forgot in Western world.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's exactly what he said as well.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and when you know, he used the example of cardiology because you know now they have these like machines that can detect murmurs and stuff here.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, you know, there's no nobody's actually practicing medicine.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: So when I look at the way, you know, for example, with skincare, when I look at the way that dermatology is practiced in the US, a lot of it feels like we're just using an old equation over and over and over again, you know?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And at some point you have to modify that equation and you have to come up with new variables.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think this is where I find what you're doing so innovative because you know, there needs to be a new benchmark set at this point where patients and you know, consumers alike, we can look and say, okay, this is where my skin should be, you know, it should be normal that I have clear skin, that I have beautiful skin.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I should be have be able to have products that can give me that.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's very important, I think, in that way.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Very important, totally agree with you.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: We lost this natural intelligence in medicine, and and somehow everyone is great in what in his old little little tiny bubble, you know.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: But but there is no this holistic approach what exists in Asia, what exists in Africa, 100%.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: There is a holistic approach which we which we are missing in Western world.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now you've also developed a proprietary at-home laser.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, can you tell us about that a little bit and what sets it apart from other devices on the market?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh, I would say that I um, you know, I started also my journey with Photona lasers.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I don't know if they are very they are popular in America, but they are quite great uh laser equipment in Europe.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: I brought this laser to China.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I developed 4D facelift with Photona lasers, so I got quite deep into laser approach and laser technologies uh at the time.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I was also key opinion leader for Venus concept.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is radio frequency, and I always thought, you know, at some point the technology could be adjusted to be used at home on a safe way for the patient.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: And also I was never really happy with those very aggressive erbium lasers, you know.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I used to do the first Erbium lasers, and I I saw how much better is going softly and slowly to the skin instead of destroying all this keratin layer aggressively with uh erbium.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's nicer and more genuine results I get if I do something more softer in combination of different kinds of lasers, but softer, not so aggressive.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the uh where the idea came from that I can produce something or make something which is beneficial for home use, which should be used maybe more often in shorter periods of time rather than once per month aggressively.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: So exosomes were the core, regenerative medicine was the core, but how to enhance it, how to help it to work even better.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's why the devices came in LED mask with yellow light, blue, and and red light, and then um low-level laser therapy uh together with radio frequency and EMS, electromagnetic stimulation of the muscles.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: We know all that that face has uh 43 muscles, and I think the biggest problem is aging of those muscles and um inadequate way of working of those muscles because they're not support enough, the lack of support of uh uh of different fat-pad tissues.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's very important lymphatic drainage and vascularization.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, exosomes work beautifully with blue light and they create angiogenesis, neo-angiogenesis, new blood vessels, and a lot of oxygenation under the skin.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's so fascinating.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you did that.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you've approached it like that because I look at this on social media and I cringe because there's so many young women right now, especially.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think young people in general, and they're running to these clinics, these med spots, and they're getting Botox every week or something, you know, and they're getting all these laser treatments, all this stuff.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just like, one, it's terrible for your finances, you know.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's one thing.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: But then also, you know, but from the health perspective, you know, you have so many people.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the I mean, just think of the people that are using all these fillers now, you know, and then they're going and they're saying, No, dissolve my filler.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's become this weird culture where they people think that, okay, I got it done, now I can reverse it.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: It shouldn't be like that, you know.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it shouldn't be like that.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's so abused.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Everything started to be uh over consumed and abused, and mostly who will suffer at the end is the patient, is the patient's face, the patient's skin, uh skin barria, and skin cell, and everything is going in the wrong direction.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: I would say people I see more and more botch people walking down the street, and uh yeah, aesthetics uh aesthetic is not anymore in the frame of something normal and anatomical or uh uh physiological, it it it becomes abused, I would say.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, less is more.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: I agree, and I think that's that it's wonderful the way that you practice medicine and then that you've really honed in on your craft because I think that a lot of doctors can learn from your approach.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that at the end of the day, medicine, you know, we learn even in medical school, they tell us do no harm.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: And when I look around, you know, Dr.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Ivy, I see a lot of people, and I'm not blaming anybody, you know what I mean.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: As a doctor myself, I will never point a finger at any other physician.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it takes a lot of studying and hard work to get to where we are.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: But then at the end of the day, you also have to do no harm, you know what I mean?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to be able to say, say no to people when they say, you know, fix my face, make me look like Angelina Jolie.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: You can't do that, you know.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's really, you know, it's crazy to me.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and sometimes I see that, you know, there's a lot of people like LA-based doctors, I know I've seen them do this, you know, and it's just not it's not ethical.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, there needs to be, like you said, there needs to be a really a good way to approach this.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then the way you've created your line is remarkable because it gives people that feeling of yes, it's in my hands now.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: I can take care of my skin, I can take care of my results and make sure that I'm, you know, constantly doing what I need to do rather than these quick fixes, you know.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that's very important.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to ask you, you know, you you've worn so many hats.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: You're a doctor, you're an author, you're an educator, brand founder now.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Which role really challenged you the most out of all of these?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: I live for the patient.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I came in UK, somehow it was uh it was the time in my career when everybody advised me to stop working with the patient and and and uh start just doing education and develop educational programs and PhDs and and and whatever they it was needed, right?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: And in deep in myself, I thought, okay, fine, maybe maybe I should really, you know, maybe I should really know when to say no to a patient and go into the other direction and and write more medical articles and you know, consider my my career going in the point of education, but I couldn't live without patients.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I went back to the patients and I'm still practicing all of that.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, uh biotech industry, which I think Dr.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Ecta is very, very important in my concept and understanding of beauty, because there is a lot, uh big knowledge in chemistry behind all those injectables and how they really work, you know.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because what I again think, for example, sculpture, one uh simple example, this was material which, when I was very young, we started to develop it in the biotech industry to help HIV patients because they had uh lipoatrophy on the faces, and uh sculpture is material which works on your personal answer of your own body, so it brings to fibrosis.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: And when I see the same sculpture, I've been nowadays injected and abused in in patients' faces all over London and creating um complications on the necks, and I just think there is such a lack of knowledge of materials and and and chemistry behind those materials, which are used to be injected in human faces.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, this is what is always bothering me.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I live for the patient, and in the center of my world is patient and well-being of single person, I would say.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's so I love that you you're doing what you're doing in such a ethical way, in such a moral way.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I I agree with your example with sculpture.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that's there's a lot of things like that now where I look in and I'm like, what are we doing?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like what is going on?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what you're doing in long term, yeah.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, and then these young kids, I mean, I worry about the 20-year-olds, you know.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's that's the one that really hits home for me because I remember being that age group and how how much you feel about your own body, and you know, they're still figuring out how to feel about themselves and their their own opinion.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then they go and they they meet people that say, I can inject this and you're gonna look better and you're gonna feel, but then you know, some downstream side effect happens, and then what what does that kid do?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's I mean it's a very, very complex situation, and I think that's where doctors have to reevaluate.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like we have an ethical book that we have to follow.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: There it has to be morality in this, you know.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I I love what you're doing, Dr.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Ivy.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I really applaud you.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're you're truly a leader, and I I hope that a lot more people can learn from the way that you're conducting your practice, you know.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's wonderful.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: I love what you're saying now about the young people.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: So young people are really, really have to be careful with all these aesthetics because you know what I see more and more that young people, if they are injected, they start to look very old.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: I can't say the age anymore.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what is really worrying me.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: So in my practice, I don't I don't like to inject people who are young if they really don't have certain malformation on the face.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, I had few patients from stroke in their early 20s, and that's that's the thing when I help, you know, or some serious issues, but but you know, preventative fine, but injecting them it's it's just a crime, I would say.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what is worrying me now?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: I had a mother telling me before Christmas that her daughter, who is nine years old, wants certain skincare, and she showed me the list of skincare this daughter wants.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Are you really going to buy that for her?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was a drunken elephant, even La Mer on that list.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you think this is a disaster?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what these kids are going to do to their skin health, to pH of their skin, to you know, barbia of the skin.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like wondering where this is going to end.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this was it's very no, no, I completely agree.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's you've had a very important spot for me in my heart about this because I created a regulatory seal for teens because of this, actually.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I uh yeah, I talked to pediatric dermatologists because we the more this was happening, I was noticing in Sephora, you know, you've I'm sure you've heard the stories, people are, you know, kids are running to Sephora and they're buying these acids and they're buying retinol products, and and it's just like it's crazy.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what no one's saying, and I'm still looking for this on social media, by the way.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: If anyone's listening and you're a social media creator, I want to see this on you guys' feeds.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about what retinol does to developing skin.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about that, you know?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like let's talk about what happens to those receptors and how they actually develop and their regulation when you actually start applying these ridiculous chemicals, you know, and what's gonna happen to these kids 20 years down the road, and how their skin is not gonna respond to any treatments at that point because now we've oversensitized and we've over-up-regulated certain receptors, you know.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's a whole book I could, you know, I could talk about this for days.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, I'll be curious that it's it's it's a horror movie out there.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, I want to ask you though, you know, I you already done so much, and I and I love what you know, everything new that you're doing, and all the line is beautiful.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: You've created something truly efficacious.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: I first and foremost, I want all of our listeners to understand that that this is I've been using Dr.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: Ivy's line regularly, and I my skin has never looked better.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying that lightly.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's be it's really, I'm I mean it, it looks amazing, and I love it because the products are doing what they're supposed to do.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't ever feel like, well, maybe I should do an extra exfoliation this week, you know, like it's never like that.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's just I use my skincare, I'm good, my skin looks great, I don't have to think about it.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I want to ask you what is next for you.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, are there any innovations down the line that you're working on or you know, anything new?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: There are some innovations, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: There are some innovations I'm looking into, and everything is based on rejuvenation and regeneration.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not supposed to talk about that, but before I start a concept, I have to have a team.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and uh now I think I build up a really nice team in Germany, so we are all excited about new things to come.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we are uh always looking into something like general approach to beauty, general approach to anti-aging, something that can be used mass population, and something which is based on rejuvenation and regeneration that does not have the skin, that can just improve everything, as well as in technology.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to combine all these things together technology and rejuvenation, regeneration.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I have my inspiration in the east.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: For example, I did not explain well about exosomes.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, in Europe, we uh ethically we can use just exosomes from the plant, plant-based.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: So why I chose Central Asiatica, and then uh we got exosomes from uh from that plant.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: So the exosomes were extracted in Japan.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was working closely with the Nobel Prize winning team in Japan with IPL derivative stem cells 2011.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I have my connections there, and we got Japanese exosomes, and we in Germany implemented them, uh, changed the receptors and implemented them into skincare line.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it was an interesting journey as well.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so next, again, rejuvenation, but a bit more uh innovative, I would say, always a step a step further.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's so fascinating.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I I didn't know that you went to Japan to get the you know the the real technology.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's really fascinating.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a huge fan of Japan.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love Japanese scientists and you know just the way that science is done there.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, science is beautiful there, but everything is beautiful food, concept of life, everything is minimalistic and beautiful and precise.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: I also wanted to tell you that I have education uh and uh I'm running it in 23 world countries, and my idea, my wish was to connect all the doctors around the world that they can easily go to Thailand and you know, in educational centers in Thailand work during a certain period of of time, because you need a month or two months to be in a foreign country and understand what is beauty in that country, then to go to Japan, then to go to Germany or Switzerland, then to come back to US.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: That would be a brilliant concept for every young person who wants to somehow uh start uh uh to live in the world of facial aesthetics because we have so different faces, so different uh skin tones, and so different requirements and understanding of beauty.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's really fascinating and truly, you know, hats off to you, Dr.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Abby.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're really, you know, I think you're you're setting such an example, you know, in in medicine.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I I really I don't say that lightly.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it's rare to meet people like you and to meet doctors like you that are not just doing it because you know it's a profession they thought was cool or something, or you know, somebody pushed them in it.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're doing it for all of the right reasons and you're innovating in this space, and that's very rare to see.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, truly, thank you for everything that you do.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: And your line is amazing, honestly.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: I can't say that enough.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: You changed my mind actually.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: You changed my mind about exosomes when I tried to.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you did.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: You're you did.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: You asked me, like, you know, six months ago what I thought about exosomes.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was not, I was confused, you know.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was very confused.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then I experienced your line and I did more reading and I started to understand, and it really works.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that there's so much that can be learned here from anyone who's like, you know, really into skincare and you want to understand, you know, like what's truly efficacious, what makes skincare efficacious.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: This is a great line for you to actually even study, you know what I mean?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Just like look at the look at the results that people have had.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it speaks for itself.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I really encourage our listeners, you guys gotta check it out.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be linking everything in the show notes.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: So make sure you scroll down and go to the the link and the website.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Dr.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: Ivy, thank you so much.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: This was an honor to host you.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Dr.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Ecta.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was really nice, interesting, interesting talk and and journey with you today.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 39:00
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• 40:04
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