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They Changed the Bible — Here’s What It Actually Says · Sky Signal

• 0:00
  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the very first episode of the
• 0:02
  Anunnaki Connection Off the Record podcast.
• 0:04
  I'm very grateful and very lucky today to be here with my first
• 0:07
  official guest. I'd like to welcome Paul
• 0:09
  Wallace, internationally best selling author of the Eden book
• 0:14
  series I have here. You can buy his books on Amazon.
• 0:17
  He's been endorsed by the legendary Eric von Daniken.
• 0:20
  George Nori spent 33 years as an Archdeacon in the Anglican
• 0:24
  Church of Australia as a theological teacher.
• 0:27
  Paul, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 0:29
  Oh, it's a pleasure, Jason. Thanks for having me with you
• 0:32
  today. And I'm very honored to be your
• 0:34
  inaugural guest for your podcasts interview.
• 0:38
  Series. Excellent.
• 0:40
  Thank you so much. So to start off, what first
• 0:43
  convinced you when you were working in the church that these
• 0:47
  stories might be something different than what we've been
• 0:51
  told through the lens of religion?
• 0:55
  Oh, that's a great question. I think I, I became a Christian
• 0:59
  when I was 17 years old. I'd previously been an atheist
• 1:05
  and I had some friends who were full on born again Christians
• 1:13
  who were evangelizing me as to the, the merits of evangelical
• 1:17
  Christianity. And I felt that they they had
• 1:22
  something interesting going on that I couldn't quite put my
• 1:25
  finger on. But I was very.
• 1:27
  Resistant to what they were telling me because my early
• 1:30
  impressions of religion had been quite negative.
• 1:33
  At the age of five, I worked out that my school was using
• 1:37
  Christianity as sort of a device to try and get us to all behave.
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  And I really had contempt for how they were doing that.
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  When I was seven, I think that's when I first became aware of
• 1:49
  what propaganda is. And I began developing a nose
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  for when people are just repeating something that they've
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  been programmed with. So I had these resistances, and
• 2:00
  then I had some resistance to the ideas they were putting
• 2:02
  forward. And for me, it was only when I
• 2:05
  could put clear blue water between the figure of Jesus and
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  religious institutions. It was only when I could put
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  clear blue water between the figure of Jesus and traditions
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  that emerged in his name that I was able to move towards Jesus
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  in a more positive way. And so because I came into faith
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  that way, I always had that sceptical edge on me.
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  And as I began asking all my questions as a young believer, I
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  had a pretty shrewd sense of when a question had been
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  adequately answered and when it hadn't.
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  And so all through my years in ministry as a teacher,
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  theological educator, I kept that really I always had
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  questions that I was sort of juggling in terms of have we got
• 3:02
  this quite right? And so in that sense, I really
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  was a, a child of the Reformation, that my
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  relationship with the New Testament, an Old Testament was
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  one of perpetual reform, that I was always going back to the
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  texts and asking, have we got that right?
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  And if you keep that kind of question alive for long enough,
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  you will depart, shall I say, from the Orthodox script at some
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  point, because you'll realise that there are some things that
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  have been burst by the Church tradition rather than by what
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  Jesus started and what's in the Gospels and what's in the New
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  Testament. And so that was sort of the push
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  pull of my, my faith. You and I came in it from almost
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  2 separate like completely different angles 'cause I was
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  born and raised in a, you know, southern evangelical Christian.
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  I would, I would call this non denominational because
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  throughout my life we, we jump from church to church to church
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  to church. My dad was really looking for
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  something, but he was into the old, you know, the Billy Graham
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  style of American evangelicalism.
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  But yes, whatever he was trying to accomplish with me, I'm not
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  really sure because they also raised me to think critically
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  about things and to ask questions.
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  It's wonderful. That's how it's coming up.
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  That's I always ask these questions and and you know, by
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  the time they never. I, I had that same advantage you
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  had and that's a wonderful thing that your parents gave you that
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  permission to be curious. It's so powerful.
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  And my mum and dad did the same for me.
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  So they left their copy of Eric von Daniken's Chariots of the
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  Gods lying around the house for me to read.
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  And I read it when I was 11 years old and thought, oh wow,
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  this guy's actually put his finger on some very reasonable
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  questions. And I'm not satisfied with the
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  answers to those questions that I'm getting from the religious
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  world or, or the mainstream scientific answers.
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  There is a gap in our ability to explain ourselves as the alpha
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  species on the planet, and I think he's right to say it.
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  So that was really the beginning of my journey and my parents
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  always encouraged my curiosity. My mum bought me a book called
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  The World Atlas of Mysteries by Frances Hitching, which talked
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  about Velikovsky mysteries around the pyramids, mysteries
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  around cryptids and didn't put forward a strong view.
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  It just said we don't really have all the answers to these
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  things. It was a wonderful book for me
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  to read when I was 11 years old. And then she bought me a book
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  called Supernature about phenomena that we don't
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  understand and can't explain. So I had the same as you, Jason.
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  And that curiosity is really something I I run with in my own
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  life. It's something I love to spark
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  in others. And I think I think if you put
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  that alongside faith, it's a very powerful combination
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  because it turns you into what we used to call a seeker, that
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  you are seeking the truth that you're not going to settle for
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  answers that haven't answered your questions.
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  And that is? Sort of the the.
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  Dynamic of of my own faith, my own life, my own writing.
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  Yeah, I I'm, I'm the same way. I always have considered myself
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  a seeker. There's a quote, I can't
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  remember who said it, but I, I see it around all the time, but
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  it always resonated me. I'd rather have questions that I
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  can't answer than answers that I can't question.
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  And that was the big thing for me that got me a split from the
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  church when I was by the time I was about 1718, about the time
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  you became a Christian was when I kind of stopped going to
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  church. And not to give my parents
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  credit, they never forced me when I became of age, they said,
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  look, you can choose to come back to church or you can choose
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  to not come on Sunday. It's up to you.
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  That's great, you know, a few weeks, but then eventually I
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  just realized I'm not going to get the answers that I need here
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  from this. So I just and I went from that
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  point. I went down.
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  I spent a few years as a young man as a hard atheist, the
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  village atheist line, but I didn't find what I was looking
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  for there either. Because when you, I tried being
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  that materialist reductionist type of, you know, philosopher
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  type route and that just doesn't, it doesn't sit, it
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  doesn't hold water. Yes, yeah, that's.
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  Very interesting because, you know, materialist reductionism
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  often is associated with atheism.
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  They're not the same thing. But for me, as an atheist, it
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  was that materialist, reductionist way of viewing the
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  world that I found unsatisfactory because I was
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  simply seeing too many things and experiencing too many things
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  for that world view to be able to mop all those things up.
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  I knew there was more and I was interested in the more.
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  So that gets us to talking about paleo contact.
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  So when we talk about paleo contact, like what's what do you
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  think a lot of people misunderstand about this term
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  and what we're getting at here? Well, it's it's a term I often
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  like to use because a lot of people stop and say, wait, what?
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  What is that? And then you could explain and
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  then you could begin to present your ideas.
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  And paleo contact essentially means contact in the beginning
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  or contact early. And it is the hypothesis that
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  our ancestors in the deep past had contact experiences with
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  other intelligences, with non human intelligence, whether from
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  this planet or whether from elsewhere in the Galaxy, and
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  that those memories are embedded in many of our ancestral
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  stories, indigenous narratives, ancient texts.
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  And my route in to this world of paleo contact was, as you were
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  saying, Jason, as a theological educator.
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  And for 15 years I trained pastors in the history of
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  Christian thought, which was illuminating for me because
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  Christianity hasn't always thought what it thinks today.
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  And so to trace that history is interesting.
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  And then also I trained my pastors in hermeneutics.
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  And those are the principles of interpreting texts.
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  And so we would do things like source analysis.
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  Where has this text come from? Form analysis?
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  What kind of text? Is this?
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  Are we reading the text in its original form?
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  If not, how does it differ from its original form?
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  And if it differs, what does that mean?
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  And then, of course, drilling down into the most fundamental
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  question, what do the words mean?
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  And it was all those disciplines of hermeneutics that when I
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  applied them to anomalies in the Bible, or at least anomalies in
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  the stories we tell from the Bible, I realised that a lot of
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  the time we're looking at some really thorny translation
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  questions. And that when you get to the
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  root meaning of the keywords, a different story emerges.
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  And with some words, even if you think, all right, let's leave
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  these words untranslated, see how they behave in the text.
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  Sometimes you've only got to do that for the story to take a
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  different shape. And it was when a few years ago
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  I did the exercise of applying that approach to the chapters of
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  Genesis that I realised that the stories change when you do that,
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  but not in a random way. The way they change is they
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  suddenly line up with the source narratives from out of ancient
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  Summa, Babylonia, Arkadia, Syria, and you realise you are
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  reading the Hebrew form of those stories, the summary form of
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  many of those stories. And so the little white rabbit
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  for me was the question, what are the implications of the fact
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  that many of our God's stories, stories we've taken as God's
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  stories, are based on another culture's stories of Anunnaki,
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  Dingir, Igiji. And these beings were understood
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  in those contexts as sky people. And often if a name was used for
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  one of them, there'd be a little star glyph next to the name so
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  that you'd know that this person with this name is one of those
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  star people or sky people. So what are the implications of
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  our God's stories being based on the stories of sky people?
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  And what is a sky person? Don't we have other language for
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  that in the 21st century? And that those were the
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  questions, really, that took me into the down the rabbit hole,
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  into the rabbit Warren of the world of Paleo contact.
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  Very similar for me, actually. That's what got, when I was in
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  my my atheist phase, I started looking into both Christian
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  apologetics and actual religious biblical scholars, people that
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  weren't coming at it from a theological lens.
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  And that's when I, that's for the first time in my life as a
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  person who'd been a Christian up until I was 1819 years old, I
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  learned for the first time about the Sumerian tablets and all
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  this, this is stuff that that you know, biblical scholars know
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  about, but most your average Christian doesn't.
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  And I've got a little book in my library.
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  It's called the Names of God. And it tell it's all the
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  different names that are used to the Bible that I noticed that
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  that kind of sparked a question in my mind when I would read the
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  Bible. You've got the Lord, the Lord
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  God, the messenger of the Lord, all these different names and
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  you realize these are these are all different characters, not
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  the same person. And it explained so much about
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  why you see it. This, this God figure acts so
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  differently in so such radically different ways from book to
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  book, chapter to chapter. It's very clear.
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  It becomes very clear that we're not looking at the same being
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  here. I completely agree, and from
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  time to time, well on a daily basis, I get pushed back from
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  more conservative Christian readers who will accuse me of
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  trying to debunk Christianity or debunk the Bible, and I'll say
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  no. My agenda here is really to
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  understand the texts for what they really are.
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  And if you have a problem with me suggesting that there are
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  interesting advanced beings washing around in the text of
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  the Bible, I always say go to your pastor if he has a
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  theological degree, or phone up your local seminary.
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  Talk to the Old Testament lecturer and ask this question.
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  Are El El Elyon, El Shaddai, Elohim, Yahweh, Adonai?
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  Are they all the same person or are they more than one?
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  And you wait for the answer, and you might be surprised with what
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  you hear because, as you say, this is known at an academic
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  level. It's just not known by the rank
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  and file of our church membership.
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  And for me, it's a real scandal because it was in the 1830s that
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  Assyriologists began reading the cuneiform script that allowed
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  them to translate all these tablets that had been dug up
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  from ancient Mesopotamia. And very quickly, people like
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  Henry Rawlinson and George Smith were working out that they were
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  looking at what appeared to be the sources of many of the
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  biblical stories. And so this has been in academic
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  discussion for nearly 200 years. It's filtered down to the
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  theological colleges and seminaries, but it hasn't got
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  any further than that. And so when I start talking
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  about this, I often get pushback from members of churches who've
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  never heard the like. They will say they've never
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  heard that the Bible is dependent on Mesopotamian
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  literature. They take that as a great
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  offence. This is a blasphemy.
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  And to me, it's a scandal that there's no awareness of this at
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  that level, even though academics have been talking
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  about it for well, let me see, in five years it will be for 200
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  years. Yeah, it definitely is a scandal
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  because I can remember back in school, you know, learning world
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  history, we maybe spent about 5 minutes on Mesopotamia, but I
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  learned all about the Greeks and the Romans and, you know.
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  Same, same. We didn't tackle it at all.
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  I had never. Heard of Sumerians until I was
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  in my 20s at theological college.
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  All through school, never a mention of them.
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  The furthest you could go back was Egypt in my studies at
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  school. I was always fascinated with
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  ancient Egypt too. That's that's another thing that
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  always stuck in my mind was ancient Egypt.
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  Now, when we're talking about this, what would these clearly
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  we're suggesting that these stories were something else
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  before they became religion. What does that process look
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  like? Because to me, this looks like a
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  game of telephone that's been going on for, you know, 200,500
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  thousand years where it's just been filtered down and used by
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  different groups of of, you know, powerful people to control
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  large groups of people. And that's how religion.
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  But you are more of an authority to speak on this than I am.
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  This is just a layperson here looking at it from the outside.
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  Well, it is the mainstream understanding of the formation
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  of the Hebrew Scriptures that they passed through a number of
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  rewritings and edits, and that those rewritings and edits were
• 17:23
  done by different groups of scribes with different agendas.
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  And so there was a redaction done by editors whose agenda was
• 17:33
  to teach Yahuism and Yahuvis law.
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  There was a redaction done to endorse the monarchy and the
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  priestly family, the priestly tradition.
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  There was a a massive reduction redaction done which is really
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  referenced within the Bible itself.
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  If you read it closely from the story of King Hezekiah onwards,
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  that was to do with monotheising Judaism, and I find that a
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  really intriguing pivot in the story of the Bible, stories told
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  by the Bible itself. And I unpack this in my book The
• 18:11
  Eden Conspiracy, which I think is over this shoulder behind me.
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  The Eden Conspiracy talks about what happened when Hezekiah came
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  in as king and he was a Yahwist but Yahweh was one of many
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  Elohim and I don't know who had the idea whether it was the king
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  or his high priest Hilkiah who was a yacht first high priest
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  but the idea was put to him. Siah.
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  Wouldn't it be better if all your people worship your God
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  instead of everyone worshipping these great range of gods?
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  Now, I say worshipping, but what we really mean is commemorating,
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  honouring the activity of a whole pantheon of advanced
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  beings. If we try and get out of the
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  religious language into the into the root meanings of keywords,
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  that's really what we're looking at.
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  Scholars generally talk about polytheism.
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  I think often polytheism would be better understood as paleo
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  contact because these appeared to be cultural memory of real
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  beings who lived with their ancestors in the past and helped
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  them. And that's certainly the story
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  of a figure like Dagon or Asherah, who two of the named
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  Elohim in the Bible. And so Hezekiah thinks, yes,
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  quite right. We should have one king, his
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  God, his God's high priest, 1 temple, and get rid of all the
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  other priesthoods, all the other temples, which was scattered
• 19:47
  throughout Judea. We don't want any other
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  ministries of truth. Let's pare this down until we've
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  got a neat ordered theocracy, One God, one king, 1 high
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  priest, 1 temple, all the tithes coming to the temple in
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  Jerusalem. And so in a sense, what you're
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  seeing is a power grab to control the narrative, a power
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  grab to receive all the tithes, a power grab for the high
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  priestly family in Jerusalem over and above all the other
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  priesthoods, Jewish priesthoods. That existed.
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  And so we see Hezekiah sending his troops in to deface all the
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  images of the other Elohim, to deface the image, I believe of
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  Yahweh, the Nehushan, because it didn't look like a, you know, a
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  universal ultimate God to deface all the carvings showing the
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  Tabah Hashimayim, the sky fleet, which is the, the memory of when
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  the Elohim arrived. Get rid of all that in Ezekiel.
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  Punish all the people who won't come out into the public square
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  and grieve at the existence of these carvings.
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  Kill those families who won't participate in that.
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  That's in the book of Ezekiel. We'll have this ritual for
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  reform, get rid of the other priesthoods.
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  And then this evolves into the work of his.
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  Is it his grandson Josiah, who in conversation with the high
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  priest and the royal scribe, decide they're going to push
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  forward this book of Yahweh and make that the religious book
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  telling all the tribes of Israel what they should believe?
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  And So what you're seeing is the morphing of Judaism from being a
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  a collection of tribes who remember these various beings
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  into a monotheistic religion. And as this book of Yahweh and
• 21:49
  the book of the Laws of Yahweh is produced, what we're seeing
• 21:52
  is a gathering together of the ancient stories and a redaction
• 21:57
  to turn them into a story of monotheism.
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  And that evolved into the Hebrew scriptures that we have today,
• 22:05
  the Old Testament, as Christians call it.
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  But vestiges of the old polytheistic or paleo contact
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  stories still remain. So we still have plural Elohim.
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  We still have other Elohim who are named like Dagon, Milkom,
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  Chamosh, Ashura, Bales, a bull, et cetera.
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  It's built into the 10 commandments that we're not
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  allowed to work for them or bow down to them, or even.
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  Depict them. It's recalled in Joshua, 24 when
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  Joshua says you need to decide who you're going to work for.
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  Are you going to work? For the Elohim of Egypt, the
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  Elohim of the Philistines, the Elohim of our ancestors in
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  Mesopotamia, As for me and my house, we're going to work for
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  Yahweh. So this plurality of beings is
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  constantly affirmed by texts. And for the believer today,
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  these are an absolute puzzle, because who are these other
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  Elohim, these other powerful beings?
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  If they're not real, if they don't exist, why all this
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  concern about them? And if they're not real and
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  don't exist, what's the meaning of all these wars that we read
• 23:18
  about? Where Yahweh?
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  'S going to war. With other Elohim, it makes
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  sense when you remember what Judaism was before the reforms
• 23:28
  of Hezekiah, that it was a Canon of cultural memory.
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  And despite all the redactions in editing, you can still go to
• 23:37
  the Old Testament, to the Hebrew scriptures, and you'll find
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  vestiges of that world shining through.
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  Those stories have not been neutralized, especially when you
• 23:49
  take the approach of using the root meanings of keywords.
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  And as I say, a story that's perhaps not preached in churches
• 23:57
  around the world begins to take focus.
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  And you can really see that, that, that suppression,
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  especially like, like you read the book of Exodus and the, and
• 24:05
  the story of Moses, like leading the, the Israelites through the
• 24:09
  desert. When he comes down from the
• 24:10
  mountain with the 10 commandments and he sees them
• 24:12
  worshipping the, the golden calf, which is the visage of
• 24:15
  the, the, the other previous, you know, deity.
• 24:19
  He's so angry. He, he burns the thing to ashes.
• 24:22
  He mixes with water and forces everybody to drink the ashes and
• 24:25
  then has 3000 people just put to the sword like.
• 24:29
  That's that's right. I mean, I remember.
• 24:31
  Reading that for the first time as a young believer and I was
• 24:34
  thinking this doesn't make sense.
• 24:36
  If Yahweh is almighty God, why would you think there would be a
• 24:42
  benefit to worshipping anybody else?
• 24:46
  That doesn't make sense. And of course, the answer to
• 24:48
  that question. Is Yahweh is not Almighty God.
• 24:50
  He's one of the Elohim. He's the tribal deity.
• 24:55
  And people will always want to if they're living in that
• 24:59
  polytheistic world, they'll always want to find the most
• 25:02
  powerful deity if they're looking for protection or
• 25:06
  provision, which essentially is what what the people were doing
• 25:10
  at that time. But if you think.
• 25:12
  Yahweh is almighty God. It doesn't make any sense at
• 25:14
  all. Same with the one Samuel 8.
• 25:17
  If Yahweh was Almighty God, why would you sack him and replace
• 25:21
  him with a human king? How could you possibly think a
• 25:24
  human king could give you a better advantage on the
• 25:27
  battlefield than Almighty God? But Yahweh is not that.
• 25:32
  He was a. Tribal leader advanced being of
• 25:37
  some kind, one of the many Elohim, but not the most
• 25:41
  powerful one. If you go to Deuteronomy 32 or
• 25:44
  Psalm 82, read them together, it becomes clear that Yahweh was
• 25:49
  one of the many Elohim who gathered in council, the Badat
• 25:54
  El, and that when El Elian, this other being, is parceling out
• 25:59
  the lands, he's giving the lands to some of the Elohim.
• 26:04
  But when he gets to Yahweh, Yahweh doesn't get any land, he
• 26:07
  just gets a people group. And so Yahweh's first action in
• 26:11
  the Bible, when he introduces himself to Moses, is to get his
• 26:14
  people group off the land of another Elohim Achech of Egypt.
• 26:19
  And then he has to train his people up to go to war so that
• 26:22
  they can steal some land off another people group so they've
• 26:27
  got some land to live on for themselves.
• 26:30
  None of those stories make sense until you realise plural Elohim
• 26:34
  Yahweh gets people with no land. And this is the injustice that's
• 26:39
  been built into the system, the artificial scarcity that Elian
• 26:44
  has created. Until you see it that way, the
• 26:47
  warfare is. Bizarre, random, meaningless,
• 26:50
  but that's what's going on. So I think for me this was a red
• 26:55
  pill moment when I and you can you can follow my journey, You
• 27:00
  can follow my thought process in my book Escaping from Eden as
• 27:04
  bit by bit I realized Yahweh is not who I was told he was in
• 27:08
  church. Yeah, he doesn't say there are
• 27:10
  no other gods but me. He says you shall have no other
• 27:13
  gods but me. This clearly implies that there
• 27:15
  are other gods. Yeah, exactly.
• 27:18
  But it is confusing because I think, you know, later on in the
• 27:23
  scriptures that made their way into the Hebrew Canon, often
• 27:27
  when writers, psalmists, poets want to reach for language for
• 27:36
  the God of the universe, they will often use the word Yahweh.
• 27:41
  And so it, there's a reason we get confused as to what that
• 27:45
  word means. And the reason they do that is
• 27:47
  because there is no word for God in the Hebrew language, not God
• 27:55
  in the sense that you and I would understand that the
• 27:58
  ultimate source of the cosmos, a transcendent being, the ground
• 28:03
  of all being, that word doesn't exist.
• 28:05
  We find all these other words that we mentioned earlier, and
• 28:09
  they have been translated as God.
• 28:12
  But the idea of that kind of God is there by the later history of
• 28:21
  Judaism. And as I say, there are writers
• 28:24
  who have that idea of God, but they just don't have a word for
• 28:27
  it. And so when they reach for a
• 28:29
  word like El Eleon. They're not using it in its
• 28:32
  earliest meaning. When they reach for a word like
• 28:36
  Yahweh, they're not using it in its earliest meaning.
• 28:39
  You go back to the early stories of El Elian and Yahweh, and it's
• 28:43
  this world of paleo contact that emerges.
• 28:47
  What do you think is the is the catalyst or the big difference
• 28:50
  for when we see like these stories that clearly became this
• 28:53
  very structured hierarchical religion hierarchical, I can't
• 28:57
  say that word. I have a lot of trouble with
• 28:58
  that word, religion power structure type thing.
• 29:01
  And then the other stories that are preserved of paleo contact
• 29:04
  from indigenous people as opposed to a more ancestral
• 29:07
  narrative that just kind of preserves the more core paleo
• 29:10
  contact story. Oh yeah, that's a really
• 29:14
  interesting question because you're quite right that these
• 29:20
  paleo contact stories have sort of gone to the grass roots in
• 29:24
  many cultures, and it's not because they were never the
• 29:29
  official narrative. That often happens because a
• 29:34
  country's been invaded by a people group with a thaistic
• 29:39
  religion, whether that's Islam or Christianity.
• 29:43
  And so, for instance, when the Spanish and Portuguese went into
• 29:48
  Central and South America, all the stories of the feathered
• 29:52
  serpents were now taboo. They were.
• 29:56
  They were gotten rid of. Huge libraries of literature
• 30:00
  were burned, and whole cadres of priests who could read that
• 30:06
  literature were also incinerated.
• 30:10
  And the upper classes who knew those stories were executed and
• 30:16
  all those stories were replaced by Catholic orthodoxy.
• 30:23
  And so the only memory of those old stories was really carried
• 30:27
  at the grass roots or by secret societies of priests or families
• 30:33
  of priests who managed to maintain.
• 30:35
  Some texts. This is the story of the Popol
• 30:40
  Vu, of course, which was a surviving key shaped text.
• 30:44
  Which carried different stories of origins and that that kind of
• 30:49
  pattern repeats around the world.
• 30:50
  I mean the British when they started taking over Ghana from
• 30:55
  the 1820s on, gradually Ghana becomes British Ghana and if you
• 31:01
  want to progress in the Society of British Ghana, get a decent
• 31:05
  job, etcetera, then you will learn to speak the Queen's
• 31:08
  English and hold to the orthodoxy of British
• 31:11
  Christianity. And everything that was known
• 31:15
  before, all the old stories are shamed now.
• 31:19
  The British didn't slaughter all the priesthoods etcetera in
• 31:24
  Ghana. They they approached it
• 31:25
  differently through cultural shaming.
• 31:27
  So even if it was your own mother or your own grandmother
• 31:31
  or auntie who could remember all the old stories, you were to
• 31:35
  dismiss her. And insult her as an idol
• 31:39
  worshipper, as an idolater, as an uneducated person who still
• 31:44
  carries on with these old wives tales.
• 31:48
  And through that shaming, the old stories were pushed to one
• 31:51
  side, pushed to the grass roots, forgotten about.
• 31:54
  So that's that's a big pattern. But the countries that took on
• 31:59
  Christianity of course took on a certain hermeneutic of the Old
• 32:04
  Testament. And unfortunately, for various
• 32:06
  reasons, Christianity decided to glue the Hebrew scriptures onto
• 32:13
  what they considered Apostolic writings to make a Bible of Old
• 32:17
  Testament and New Testament. And they did take these stories
• 32:22
  of Yahweh and Elian and the rest as stories of God.
• 32:27
  The problem with that is. You get a very violent God if
• 32:32
  you take stories that were really about violent
• 32:35
  colonization, with all the brutality that goes with that,
• 32:42
  and then ascribe that behaviour to your God.
• 32:45
  Well, now you have to justify it and worship it.
• 32:47
  So now you have to justify xenophobia, racism, misogyny,
• 32:54
  infanticide and call it good and call it holy, because God can do
• 33:00
  no wrong. And if you've got a God who
• 33:02
  behaves like that and you worship those behaviours, you've
• 33:06
  now got a platform on which to justify your own violence, your
• 33:12
  own imperialist expansion. You're doing it all in the name
• 33:16
  of God, so that in the 1800s there were Christians who
• 33:21
  believed that. That kind of violent invasion
• 33:25
  was the most powerful way of advancing Christianity around
• 33:28
  the globe. And people used to say that
• 33:31
  about the British Empire. So there are all sorts of
• 33:35
  problems and distortions that come from reading the Hebrew
• 33:39
  Scriptures in that way. But I think that's how it
• 33:43
  happened. It it came into Christianity.
• 33:46
  The Roman Empire used it that way.
• 33:49
  I mean, by the 6th century they are depicting Jesus in Roman
• 33:54
  military uniform as a foot soldier.
• 33:57
  So now he's under the emperor endorsing all the violence and
• 34:01
  expansionism of that empire. You've got the story told by
• 34:06
  Eusebius about the emperor seeing the the cross in the sky
• 34:14
  and this being Jesus's endorsement of the violence of
• 34:19
  his armies. So you've got this fusion of
• 34:22
  violence, state violence, Christianity, the Romans used it
• 34:26
  and then Christian empires have used that approach from that
• 34:30
  time to this. And that's, that's what we need
• 34:32
  to unpick because frankly, anyone who has a violent God is
• 34:38
  doing a distortion to their own conscience.
• 34:41
  And I see the evidence of this in my inbox on a daily basis.
• 34:45
  I mean, when people threaten real world violence to me or my
• 34:50
  family and think they're doing that in the name of God, it's
• 34:54
  because they've got a violent God.
• 34:56
  Or when people threaten me with immolation that will go on for
• 35:01
  eternity, they feel they're doing God's work because their
• 35:05
  God is a violent God. And I think we need to undo all
• 35:09
  this distortion, recover our idea of God from these monstrous
• 35:15
  stories, and begin to recover our own sense of moral
• 35:19
  conscience which can only be damaged by that form of
• 35:24
  religion. I couldn't agree more.
• 35:26
  I get the same in my inbox and my DMS.
• 35:28
  I get threats all the time and just threats of eternal
• 35:32
  damnation, which is not something that I can recall
• 35:35
  Jesus himself ever preaching. There's such a a clash between
• 35:38
  what you just actually read. What Jesus taught his, his
• 35:42
  followers and the people around him versus the Old Testament.
• 35:45
  And then you look at verses like in in John chapter 8, when he's
• 35:48
  condemning the Pharisees, he's telling like the God you're
• 35:51
  serving what you're doing. This is the you're, you're
• 35:53
  children of the devil. He was a liar and a murderer,
• 35:56
  you know. Yeah, that's right.
• 35:58
  Your father, he says your father was a murderer from the
• 36:03
  beginning, a liar, the father of lies, a false father.
• 36:07
  And he contrasts their father. With the Father that he's
• 36:11
  talking about, the Pata, the ABBA, the Phaeos that he's
• 36:16
  talking about, and that people should all, all read that in
• 36:20
  John 8 very, very slowly. Read John 8, read John 10 very,
• 36:25
  very slowly. And if you're careful about it,
• 36:28
  you'll see Jesus really is putting clear blue water between
• 36:33
  those two traditions, and there really is a discontinuity.
• 36:37
  Between Yahweh's monotheism and what Jesus was on about, which
• 36:43
  we've often been entrained to not see initially by gluing the
• 36:50
  Hebrew scriptures onto Apostolic writings.
• 36:54
  And then through 2000 years of preaching.
• 36:57
  But there's a discontinuity here.
• 36:59
  I mean, go to Acts 15 and a very clear decision is being made
• 37:03
  that Christianity is not going to be built on Yahuism,
• 37:07
  Yahuwist, law RE or law LAW. Christianity is going to be
• 37:13
  built on something else. The written code's been
• 37:16
  cancelled according to Colossians 214.
• 37:19
  There's a discontinuity. And once you see it, it's
• 37:25
  impossible not to see it. But a lot of people can't see it
• 37:29
  because of this, you know, nearly 2000 year tradition of
• 37:34
  saying it's all the same God from start to finish.
• 37:37
  And Jesus really was here to teach Yahwism.
• 37:40
  Well if he was, why didn't he teach it?
• 37:43
  And if he was, why isn't Christianity, Yahwism full of
• 37:47
  Yahwist law? I want to kind of shift gears a
• 37:49
  little bit here because I want to get to talking about Turkey.
• 37:53
  Interesting and important to talk about because of the
• 37:55
  discoveries we found there, not just Gobekli Tepe, but there's
• 37:58
  other, there's another one, Karen Tepe.
• 38:00
  What kind of role do you think that that the flood had played
• 38:03
  in, in kind of fracturing these stories and and spreading them
• 38:08
  out throughout the world? Because clearly, if you look at
• 38:10
  almost every ancient tradition, pretty much all of them have a
• 38:14
  very similar story about some type of major cataclysmic event,
• 38:17
  whether it be a flood or swallowed up by fire.
• 38:21
  And you see this not only in the old world, but in the New world
• 38:23
  as well. The Hopi people talked about it.
• 38:26
  Oh yes, South America talk about it.
• 38:27
  It's everywhere. Yes, that's right.
• 38:31
  So many stories of beginnings, or creation stories as we've
• 38:37
  interpreted them, begin on a flooded world.
• 38:41
  And if you just follow the action of the story, you'll
• 38:45
  realise you're not looking at a creation narrative, you're
• 38:47
  looking at a rehabilitation narrative.
• 38:51
  So you're right, it's their Native American story.
• 38:55
  People of the Iroquois Federation know a story of a
• 38:59
  flooded world being rehabilitated.
• 39:01
  They have a story of climatic. Change that their ancestors
• 39:07
  needed help recovering from. In Australia there are ancient
• 39:12
  Aboriginal stories of climatic change and relocation that meant
• 39:17
  that the people needed help knowing what to eat and how to
• 39:22
  survive. The world's The stories of
• 39:26
  beginnings in told by the Edo and Yoruba people who are in
• 39:34
  Nigeria, Benin, Cameroon. They talk about a flooded world
• 39:39
  that needed rehabilitating. There's a story from the
• 39:42
  Philippines that begins the same way.
• 39:44
  Flooded world and LAD needs reclaiming before the story of
• 39:50
  humanity can move on. It's there in the Enuma Elish of
• 39:57
  Babylonian law. It's there in Genesis 1.
• 40:01
  The flood story repeats in the Epic of Gilgamesh, the ultra
• 40:06
  harsis tablet. And yes, it it really is a
• 40:09
  global story. And the, the stories I've been
• 40:13
  probing in Turkey relate to this because.
• 40:17
  In the Iron Age, when the Ratian people were telling their
• 40:21
  stories and writing inscriptions on their sacred sites, they
• 40:27
  always appeal to the deep story of the.
• 40:29
  Region, which is one of recovery from a cataclysm if you look at
• 40:36
  the symbols used. I argue in my book The Eden
• 40:40
  Enigma that what you're looking at is a lesson in horticulture.
• 40:46
  To get agriculture rebooted, there's hand pollination and
• 40:51
  cross pollination being shown because something has happened
• 40:55
  to the ecosphere that means the bees are not there.
• 40:59
  The insect life is not there to do this in the natural, normal
• 41:04
  way. So we're going to have to do
• 41:05
  this ourselves. To reboot agriculture, we're
• 41:08
  going to have to create new strains of plants that can
• 41:11
  survive and thrive in the new environment.
• 41:14
  That story's being told there. And there are many vectors
• 41:18
  pointing to that part of the world.
• 41:20
  What was ancient Armenia to the Armenian Highlands to say there
• 41:24
  was a a reboot here after a cataclysm.
• 41:28
  So you've got flood narratives that point there.
• 41:31
  Noah The Noah story points to Ararat to which is the same word
• 41:37
  as. Uratu, by the way, the Uratu.
• 41:39
  Yeah, I was going to say, isn't that pretty much where they say
• 41:41
  that Noah's Ark was supposed to have have rested was in Uratu?
• 41:44
  Exactly that's. And all those artifacts look the
• 41:46
  same, they all have the same kind of like aesthetic as the as
• 41:51
  the Mesopotamian stuff. Oh yes, they do.
• 41:53
  Exactly. So the Noah's story points
• 41:55
  there. The oldest map in the world is
• 41:57
  the Babylonian map of the world etched into a rock, which you
• 42:03
  can now see at the British Museum.
• 42:05
  It identifies Ararat as where as Yusudra's ark landed.
• 42:12
  The book of Ezekiel in the Hebrew Scriptures says the
• 42:15
  garden of the powerful ones was in the high country.
• 42:18
  They're pointing to the Armenian Highlands as well.
• 42:22
  And it's always been the deep story of the region.
• 42:24
  This is where life began again. This is where civilization began
• 42:29
  again, Anatolia. In that region, the very name
• 42:35
  means the place where the sun rises again, which is a
• 42:39
  beautiful, profound statement about the story of humanity, in
• 42:43
  my opinion. But there's science that points
• 42:46
  to this region as well. In 1998, teams went into
• 42:50
  southeast Turkey, what is today SE Turkey, to Karajadar.
• 42:55
  And these teams were headed up by Manfred Hoyne, teams from the
• 42:59
  Max Planck Institute in Cologne, Germany, and the University of
• 43:02
  Norway and OS. And they identified the earliest
• 43:06
  known farm, the earliest known iteration of agricultural
• 43:11
  science, the cultivation of crops.
• 43:14
  And they found this very localised area where 11
• 43:17
  naturally occurring plants had been altered so that they could
• 43:21
  be cultivated as crops in higher densities.
• 43:25
  And when I say altered, you're talking about gene modification.
• 43:28
  It's not a simple thing to make that change.
• 43:31
  And in the same place they magically worked out how to do
• 43:34
  animal husbandry as well. There's other science that shows
• 43:38
  the migration of that technology along with megalithic building
• 43:46
  from there into the Baltic states into Northern Europe,
• 43:51
  into Scandinavia. And that movement of people and
• 43:58
  agricultural science and megalithic building.
• 44:02
  Again, it's another thing that points to this part of the
• 44:05
  world. It's why I go there every year.
• 44:08
  By the end of this year, I'll have been four times in two
• 44:11
  years. I'm taking a group on tour and
• 44:14
  you're very welcome to come with me October of this year.
• 44:18
  And we will be going to the ancient sites where we can see
• 44:21
  the carvings that tell these stories.
• 44:25
  And I just love how close to the surface these ancient stories
• 44:29
  are in that part of the world. And it interests me from a Paleo
• 44:33
  contact perspective because these stories say that we
• 44:37
  recovered from that cataclysm with help and that we were
• 44:42
  helped by beings called the dingier, which is to borrow the
• 44:47
  Sumerian word. So not by not by other humans,
• 44:52
  but by Dingier who were people, but they were advanced and they
• 44:57
  had technology we couldn't understand.
• 45:00
  I suggest that they were, they may have been galactic visitors.
• 45:04
  Some people think it was the survivors of a previous advanced
• 45:08
  civilization. Well, that's possible, but I
• 45:11
  think there are clues in the stories that we really are
• 45:13
  looking at something quite cosmic that intervened in the
• 45:19
  human story to ensure that we didn't go extinct in a period
• 45:24
  where that was entirely possible.
• 45:26
  And we're talking about the younger, driest cold period, the
• 45:29
  most recent Ice Age. And so the early and late
• 45:35
  horizons of that event would have included massive flooding
• 45:40
  at the beginning. There would have been sky fires.
• 45:42
  There would have been seismic activity in the middle.
• 45:45
  There was a great and terrible winter.
• 45:48
  And so we have flood narratives such as the ones we've already
• 45:51
  mentioned, but we do also have the story of a great and
• 45:54
  terrible winter, which we can find in modern day Iran.
• 45:59
  And that was maintained through the stories of Zoroastrianism.
• 46:03
  So we're talking about the stories of Jamshid Yimar taking
• 46:07
  people underground to to live underground in in large
• 46:12
  communities with animals, plants, seeds, so they could
• 46:17
  ride out this great and terrible winter.
• 46:20
  They did that because they had help from an advanced being,
• 46:24
  Ahura Mazda. So it's interesting how all
• 46:27
  these stories knit together. It truly is global because there
• 46:31
  are stories of this kind of recovery in Chinese narratives
• 46:35
  as well. It was the correlations around
• 46:39
  the world that really got my attention when I began my work
• 46:42
  in this area. And I started asking, how is it
• 46:45
  that cultures that had no contact with each other, that
• 46:49
  have completely different narrative traditions, shamanic
• 46:55
  traditions, yet they have all these notes in their stories in
• 46:59
  common and sometimes in some considerable detail?
• 47:02
  Yeah, the Hopi people in Arizona say that the Ant people took
• 47:06
  them underground. Yes, that's right.
• 47:09
  Yes, exactly. So every continent has some kind
• 47:14
  of a version of this story. What about Thailand?
• 47:17
  What's going on in Thailand? There's temples in Thailand I
• 47:20
  think we should talk about. Yes, well, this is really
• 47:23
  interesting. So I really need to dip my toe
• 47:27
  deeper into Indian traditions, Vedic traditions, because there
• 47:33
  I find there hasn't been this same shaming of the old
• 47:36
  narrative and there hasn't been the same nervousness of
• 47:40
  translators to translate non human beings as non human beings
• 47:46
  or to translate technology as technology.
• 47:49
  There's a there's a far more continuous and unbroken story of
• 47:54
  contact with interesting beings from a populated cosmos.
• 48:00
  So I really do want to get into the vaders and and to begin
• 48:04
  doing this, I'm going to Thailand with Praveen Mohan in
• 48:08
  November of this year. Again, anyone listening you
• 48:11
  wants to come with, please do. You can go.
• 48:14
  To my website, paulanthonywallace.com and you
• 48:18
  can come on tour with me and Praveen Mohan and we are going
• 48:21
  around temples in Thailand that carry these stories through the
• 48:26
  symbology that's been carved into their walls.
• 48:30
  And I had some time with Praveen in conversation.
• 48:37
  We've actually recorded some interviews that you can find on
• 48:39
  the 5th Kind on YouTube and we bounce off each other really
• 48:43
  well. And the knowledge that I, I
• 48:46
  bring is really of the, the global family of stories and how
• 48:50
  they fit together with the Vedic stories.
• 48:53
  Praveen has his deep knowledge of the Vedic stories and we are
• 48:57
  going to these case study places to look at the symbols together
• 49:02
  and then share with the people who come with us how we begin to
• 49:06
  get into the interpretation of these symbols and stories and
• 49:09
  what they mean for the story of humanity.
• 49:12
  That's so cool, I'd love to be able to come with you.
• 49:14
  I don't have a passport right now, so I need to get a
• 49:16
  passport. Oh, you want to get one?
• 49:20
  The travelling that I would see that I did was when I was in the
• 49:22
  military and I had a military ID, so I was able to go deploy
• 49:26
  to Afghanistan, for instance, and didn't need a passport for
• 49:28
  that. It, you know, it's very
• 49:31
  interesting, Jason. The biggest demographic among my
• 49:35
  followers I think is probably U.S., Defence Force veterans,
• 49:43
  particularly people who've been deployed in theatres of war.
• 49:47
  And people come back full of questions after those
• 49:51
  experiences. Sometimes they come back full of
• 49:54
  geopolitical questions. Why were we there?
• 49:57
  What was that about? But sometimes they they come
• 50:00
  back with thornier questions because perhaps their unit was
• 50:04
  involved in something that seemed more archaeological and
• 50:07
  strategic because of particular things they were looking for,
• 50:11
  because of artefacts they helped ship out of the country.
• 50:16
  And those kinds of questions have brought a lot of people to
• 50:20
  the Paul Wallace Channel and to the Eden series.
• 50:22
  And I have enormous respect for people who've been on that
• 50:27
  journey. It's something that, perhaps
• 50:30
  more powerfully than anything else, dislodges people from the
• 50:34
  mainstream and forces people to begin to question their world
• 50:40
  view and all the things that they've been taught.
• 50:43
  I didn't get, I didn't get to go to Iraq, but I did.
• 50:46
  I was in Afghanistan in 2010 and 2011.
• 50:49
  And even back then I heard whispers of that story of the
• 50:53
  Special forces guys that encountered that giant in
• 50:55
  Kandahar. That's where I was at.
• 50:56
  I was in Kandahar for a year. I lived out there.
• 50:59
  And these stories, they just kind of refused to die.
• 51:01
  Even people will try and debunk them and say and you know.
• 51:05
  Now, when you were there, Jason, when you heard those whispers,
• 51:09
  how were those stories shared? Were they?
• 51:13
  I mean, do people laugh at them? Were they worried about them?
• 51:16
  Did they give them credence? It was a, it was a big joke.
• 51:20
  It's people. I mean, some people like, hey,
• 51:21
  watch it out there, you know, if you're out there in the
• 51:23
  mountains, there's giants out there.
• 51:25
  But nobody really took it that seriously.
• 51:27
  I didn't see people start to take it seriously until, you
• 51:30
  know, a few years ago when it started circulating on the
• 51:33
  Internet again. Oh, I find all that really,
• 51:35
  really interesting my interest in the Kandahar giant story is
• 51:42
  is this that when I was at school, the story of the ascent
• 51:48
  of man the the evolution of Homo sapiens seemed to be a very.
• 51:52
  Simple story and it was a gradual improvement.
• 51:55
  Of hominids, until you get to us.
• 52:00
  And it was a a single line, gradual improvement, gradual
• 52:04
  improvement. Now we know that the story is
• 52:06
  far more complex and that there was a time when our ancestors
• 52:11
  shared the planet with all kinds of hominids, and they were very
• 52:15
  short ones, Homo floresiensis from Indonesia, and they were
• 52:20
  very tall, strong ones, Gigantopithecus.
• 52:25
  And we coexisted. So there was a time when we had
• 52:29
  neighbors who were much bigger, much smaller.
• 52:32
  Wouldn't you expect the memory of that to be encoded in our
• 52:38
  most ancient stories? So it doesn't surprise me to
• 52:42
  hear stories of giants or hear stories of little people because
• 52:46
  there was a time when that was the lived experience for our
• 52:49
  ancestors. And then just take a step beyond
• 52:52
  that and say, so when did all these other types of human being
• 52:57
  go extinct? Is it later than we thought?
• 53:00
  Is that why the stories are so persistent?
• 53:02
  So I find that really rather interesting.
• 53:05
  I do think that in the Bible itself, there is a story that's
• 53:10
  embedded in the Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Jacob and Esau
• 53:16
  stories that actually comes from that time when there was us plus
• 53:22
  other kinds of hominid and we had to work out how to become
• 53:26
  the alpha species when there were others out there that were
• 53:28
  physically more powerful than us.
• 53:31
  And so there's a story of a smooth skinned human learning to
• 53:38
  manipulate, control, overpower a stronger, entirely hairy human
• 53:43
  being through offerings of food. Now, the way it's spun in the
• 53:49
  Bible as we have it today is that's a story of two brothers.
• 53:53
  But is that how brothers relate to each other?
• 53:58
  I don't think it is. I think this is a much earlier
• 54:00
  story that's been woven into this story of Hebrew origins,
• 54:04
  but it comes from a story of human origins.
• 54:07
  It comes from a memory of that time when there were more kinds
• 54:11
  of us jostling against each other on the planet.
• 54:14
  That reminds me of the Epic of Gilgamesh with Gilgamesh and
• 54:17
  Enki do He's this wild hairy man and he has to bring him in and
• 54:20
  civilize him and teach him to live in the city among civilized
• 54:23
  people. Yes, that you could see it that
• 54:27
  way. I love the Enki do story.
• 54:31
  It's so resonant. Of course, it's been retold so
• 54:34
  many times. Think of The Jungle Book by
• 54:37
  Rudyard Kipling and the stories of Mowgli.
• 54:40
  Think of Edgar Rice Burrows and the stories of Tarzan.
• 54:43
  It's the same thing. A wild human being, male, living
• 54:48
  on his own in nature, somewhat in harmony with the animals.
• 54:53
  And then a female comes along and he bonds with her and she
• 55:01
  civilises him, introduces him to new foods, clothes, and then
• 55:07
  works on him to the point that she could take him to the city
• 55:10
  and he can exist in the it's exactly the same story as
• 55:14
  Gilgamesh and Shamhat, deeply resonant story.
• 55:18
  And again, I think that's actually a human origin story
• 55:21
  that's been woven into this huge epic, the Epic of Gilgamesh.
• 55:25
  You've got that story, you've got the flood story, and you've
• 55:29
  got these episodes that are already set pieces.
• 55:33
  They're already ancient stories by the time the Epic of
• 55:36
  Gilgamesh is being written, and the writers just woven these
• 55:40
  older stories into this big narrative about Gilgamesh and
• 55:44
  what how Gilgamesh became so wise and why Auricus is advanced
• 55:50
  as it is. It is all the same story and it,
• 55:53
  it's, it's all the same story with, with the human origins,
• 55:56
  with the sky people. And even like UFO encounters,
• 55:59
  you find these all throughout the Bible, all throughout all
• 56:02
  kinds of ancestral narratives, people encountering, you know,
• 56:05
  things in the sky. There's there's a story of
• 56:07
  Alexander the Great marching through the Zagros Mountains
• 56:10
  when they saw flying Shields in the sky.
• 56:13
  Oh yeah, that's right, it's in the Frankish Annals as well,
• 56:16
  from the 8th century. Flying Shields in the sky.
• 56:19
  I believe that's what we see at Yerevan in Erebuni, at the
• 56:24
  Fortress of Blood, a blue sky full of flying round Shields.
• 56:29
  Yes, it's there in Graco Roman's story and it it's reported
• 56:34
  there's a book of it's called The Book of Prodigies, which was
• 56:40
  written by a writer called Obsequence who had gathered
• 56:45
  together. And it was almost like the
• 56:47
  Senate briefing paper of 2021 where they wanted an initial
• 56:50
  briefing paper on Uaps, where this guy Obsequence had done the
• 56:55
  same thing and pulled together all these stories of airborne
• 57:01
  anomalies witnessed by the ancients.
• 57:04
  And so, yes, it's the same phenomena from the earliest of
• 57:09
  times to the present day. So what's your take on, on
• 57:12
  what's going on today with with this stuff?
• 57:15
  I know there's, there's a big, there's a big split in the UFO
• 57:17
  community. About half the people think
• 57:19
  we're dealing with something coming from outside of our
• 57:21
  planet. The other half think this is
• 57:24
  either a psychological phenomenon or maybe a, a
• 57:28
  spiritual or interdimensional phenomenon.
• 57:32
  I'm, I'm up in the air. I'm, I'm trying to decide what's
• 57:34
  going on because you can look, there's even all those, there's
• 57:37
  medieval paintings, religious paintings where they depict UFOs
• 57:41
  that look like, you know, physical craft in the sky.
• 57:44
  And if we're we're dealing with something.
• 57:46
  That's like mass sightings. That's right, Massological.
• 57:50
  Spiritual thing, it's not going to need a physical craft to fly
• 57:53
  around him. But people also have
• 57:54
  encountered, you know, things that are just pure
• 57:57
  manifestations of light and orbs.
• 57:59
  There's, I think we're, we've got multiple things happening
• 58:02
  here. What?
• 58:02
  What? About yes, that's right.
• 58:04
  I think, yeah, that's the best way to put it, Jason.
• 58:06
  There are multiple things happening.
• 58:09
  We've got all kinds of company and there are various kinds of
• 58:14
  phenomena like orbs and craft like Tic Tacs or the boomerang
• 58:20
  forms or the pyramid forms or the triangular forms.
• 58:24
  Yeah, we've we're, we're in a super company.
• 58:27
  You can't dismiss the entire phenomenon as psychological
• 58:32
  because when it comes to, for instance, Tic Tacs or flying
• 58:37
  sources, these are things that have been tracked by air traffic
• 58:42
  control ship bound radar. The, the radar of craft that we
• 58:52
  deploy to intercept, to try and engage with them, engage by
• 58:56
  sight by the pilots. So if you think about, just as
• 58:59
  an example, the USS Nimitz and the planes that were deployed to
• 59:06
  engage with the Tic Tac craft back in 2004, all those media
• 59:11
  were being used to track these craft and to try and follow them
• 59:15
  and to try and intercept them and observe them.
• 59:18
  So that's not psychological that that is a a military engagement,
• 59:24
  although we didn't actually try and shoot anything down.
• 59:28
  So we can't dismiss them as a non physical thing.
• 59:31
  I mean, we've got film footage of these tic tac craft.
• 59:34
  We've got film footage of trans medium travel craft that have
• 59:39
  pinged into our airspace, that move in ways we can't explain
• 59:45
  through our laws of physics, through the air, and then can
• 59:49
  fly at high speed from the air into the ocean.
• 59:52
  There's nothing psychological about that.
• 59:54
  You can see the film footage of it yourself and you can talk to
• 59:58
  eyewitnesses. This is a physical phenomenon.
• 1:00:01
  But the way they ping into our airspace is mystifying to us.
• 1:00:06
  It doesn't observe. The laws of Newtonian physics,
• 1:00:10
  we don't see a craft travelling through space getting bigger and
• 1:00:13
  bigger and bigger than entering our sky.
• 1:00:15
  It doesn't work like that. They just seem to ping into our
• 1:00:18
  airspace. So that raises questions of is
• 1:00:22
  this interstellar travel or is it interdimensional travel?
• 1:00:26
  Is it interstellar travel using interdimensional technology?
• 1:00:30
  And if you listen, yeah, I think so too, because if you listen to
• 1:00:35
  the scientists who are working on the legacy program, so people
• 1:00:40
  who've been allowed to speak to the press, people like the
• 1:00:44
  eminent scientist Jacques Valet, information scientist, the
• 1:00:51
  American physicist Eric W Davis, the microbiologist from
• 1:00:57
  Stanford, Gary Nolan. What they talk about is they're
• 1:01:02
  working on materials that appear to create a little space-time
• 1:01:07
  bubble, and they want to see if we can replicate that kind of
• 1:01:12
  material. Now, that language tells you
• 1:01:14
  straight away what we're talking about.
• 1:01:17
  It is interstellar travel achieved through some kind of an
• 1:01:21
  artificial wormhole technology. That's what a space-time bubble
• 1:01:25
  means. And if we are to get access to
• 1:01:30
  our own Galaxy, we need to master that technology.
• 1:01:34
  Once we can manipulate space-time, then we can travel
• 1:01:38
  to the stars. We can't do it before then.
• 1:01:41
  And so that's I think how the story of our visiting technology
• 1:01:45
  intersects with today's legacy programme.
• 1:01:49
  It how it goes some way to explaining how anyone could get
• 1:01:52
  here in the 1st place. Because a lot of people object
• 1:01:55
  to the ideas of observation and contact because of the
• 1:01:58
  impossible distances when you look at interstellar travel.
• 1:02:02
  Well, they're not impossible if you can create a space-time
• 1:02:05
  bubble, if you can create a stable wormhole.
• 1:02:09
  And if you follow what these three scientists, for instance,
• 1:02:13
  have said to the press. If you follow what's been shared
• 1:02:16
  in Senate briefing papers in the Congressional House Oversight
• 1:02:21
  Subcommittee hearing of July 26th, 2023, connect those dots
• 1:02:28
  and you see that is what we're looking at.
• 1:02:30
  That's definitely the key, because like you said, the the
• 1:02:34
  traveling interstellar, it's not impossible, but it it's it's
• 1:02:37
  impossible if you're going to put yourself in a in a tin can
• 1:02:40
  and just float, you know, through the Galaxy.
• 1:02:42
  Even if even if you're a being that lives for 1020 thousand
• 1:02:45
  years, that's still just impractical as all get out.
• 1:02:48
  And you look at all the megalithic structures that not
• 1:02:51
  just the pyramids, but the, the ziggurats, all these places
• 1:02:54
  where people were told that's where you went to meet with the
• 1:02:57
  gods. That's where the gods would show
• 1:02:59
  up. And it's not that a ship is
• 1:03:01
  coming down. This is a, this is a, a gateway
• 1:03:04
  room almost. And I've talked exactly that,
• 1:03:06
  have been to Egypt and been inside the pyramids.
• 1:03:08
  And they tell me it feels like you're inside a machine when
• 1:03:12
  you're in there. I've heard that from multiple
• 1:03:14
  people, yes. And I, I have to imagine then
• 1:03:17
  that's what we're looking at. The story of the gateway is
• 1:03:20
  there in the Bible. In Genesis 11, Bab El means the
• 1:03:26
  power gate or the gateway for the powerful ones.
• 1:03:31
  And when you read that alongside the Babylonian telling of the
• 1:03:35
  story in the Enuma Elish, it adds detail to that and says
• 1:03:40
  that from there, 50 technicians dispatched 200 observers from
• 1:03:46
  the planet's surface to their stations in the stars.
• 1:03:50
  And now this Bab El really does sound like a a stargate as we
• 1:03:55
  would understand it. And so when people have asked
• 1:03:58
  me, is there any credibility to the idea that there could be a
• 1:04:02
  stargate somewhere on the planet, my answer is I don't
• 1:04:06
  know. But if you were wanting to look
• 1:04:09
  for one, the place you would go according to the Bible and
• 1:04:13
  according to the Anuma Elish, is Iraq, that's where you would
• 1:04:18
  look for one. And if you had any suspicion
• 1:04:21
  there'd been any technology like that in the deep past, you'd
• 1:04:25
  certainly want it in your own hands rather in than in the
• 1:04:28
  hands of an enemy. So I'll give that answer.
• 1:04:31
  But also, just go to the NASA website and you'll find that the
• 1:04:36
  study of stargates in the sense of portals, wormholes has been
• 1:04:43
  studied objectively, materially for more than 30 years.
• 1:04:48
  There is a what they call an electromagnetic portal close to
• 1:04:56
  planet Earth that opens and closes on an 8 minute cycle and
• 1:05:01
  you might think oh that sounds interesting, but oh, it's only
• 1:05:04
  an electromagnetic portal. Read further and you'll find
• 1:05:08
  that they've been measuring the mass that travels through that
• 1:05:13
  portal, and because they're tracking the movement of mass
• 1:05:17
  through that portal, they've been asking the question, or
• 1:05:20
  they were asking the question 30 years ago.
• 1:05:23
  Can we fly a craft into that? That's what's in the public
• 1:05:27
  domain. I'm not making this up.
• 1:05:29
  This is all on the NASA website. If that is what is being said
• 1:05:33
  publicly, and if they were asking more than 30 years ago,
• 1:05:36
  can we fly something into that? Goodness only knows what's
• 1:05:40
  actually happened since, but that those two tracks give us
• 1:05:43
  every reason to take the idea of portaling or stable wormholes or
• 1:05:50
  interstellar travel using that kind of technology a little bit
• 1:05:53
  more seriously. That's where my mind is at,
• 1:05:55
  definitely. And the the more our researchers
• 1:05:57
  I know the in the Zecharia Sitchin works, he thinks Nibiru
• 1:06:01
  is a planet that comes into our solar system every 3600 years
• 1:06:05
  and that that really doesn't work because we'd have seen it
• 1:06:08
  by now. Like if it's 3600 years, we'd
• 1:06:11
  have seen it by now. But when I agree with stuff like
• 1:06:13
  the Enuma Elish. If.
• 1:06:15
  It feels like what what he's talking about there is more of a
• 1:06:18
  gateway 'cause when, when at the end, when Marduk is setting up
• 1:06:21
  all the stations and he even says he opened great gates on
• 1:06:24
  both sides, you know what I mean?
• 1:06:27
  Yeah, I you could certainly read it that way.
• 1:06:30
  And I'm with you. In your comments, I note that
• 1:06:34
  Nibiru seems to play the role of, we could say, a mothership
• 1:06:40
  as well. You could.
• 1:06:41
  You could see it that way. But yes, it could simply be the
• 1:06:44
  portal technology that's being used to get people to their
• 1:06:49
  stations in the stars from elsewhere in the Galaxy.
• 1:06:52
  When we talk about these, these phenomenon, the, the UAP and the
• 1:06:57
  lights and the orbs and the craft and we've got disclosure
• 1:07:00
  coming up. There's been this all of my
• 1:07:03
  life. I've been hearing about
• 1:07:04
  disclosure since I was a kid in the 90s.
• 1:07:07
  People wanted disclosure. They, they drip feed us little
• 1:07:09
  bits about it. Are people ready for that?
• 1:07:12
  Is this something that that you think people can handle?
• 1:07:16
  Because what I hear from everybody is like, oh, it's
• 1:07:17
  going to shatter all of religion.
• 1:07:19
  I'm like, well, modern religion is on its way to being, if it's
• 1:07:23
  not already fractured into a million pieces, it's, it's all
• 1:07:25
  over the place. I don't think I don't think it's
• 1:07:28
  going to be that big of a, you know, thing for for modern
• 1:07:31
  people will find a way to incorporate it into their
• 1:07:35
  theological beliefs. They already have most, you
• 1:07:38
  know, American Christians, they've already they're demons.
• 1:07:41
  It's demonic. I'm I'm set on that.
• 1:07:43
  And people on the other side are like, no, no, no, no.
• 1:07:46
  So what? What do you think about all
• 1:07:47
  this? Yes.
• 1:07:49
  No, I don't think it'll shatter religion to be honest. 2009 the
• 1:07:54
  Roman Catholic Church held its Colloquium on the Theological
• 1:07:58
  Implications. Of contact with other
• 1:08:00
  civilizations. And the conclusion of that
• 1:08:04
  colloquium is, Oh no, there's no real issue.
• 1:08:06
  They said it just means the creator's been busier than we
• 1:08:09
  thought and we should be ready to embrace a brother or sister
• 1:08:14
  alien. So the Roman Catholic Church did
• 1:08:17
  that to position itself to be ready for disclosure of contact.
• 1:08:22
  So they've obviously got a game plan.
• 1:08:24
  I think other churches don't. And it's one of the things
• 1:08:27
  that's motivated me to write the Eden series to, to go the
• 1:08:31
  churches and say, come on, get into this conversation.
• 1:08:35
  You know, you should have a head start on this because you've got
• 1:08:37
  the Bible, which is full of paleo contact, which is one of
• 1:08:40
  the things that they said in the Colloquium of 2009.
• 1:08:46
  Recent polling suggests more than 2/3 of Americans that if
• 1:08:50
  you told them there are other civilizations and actually we've
• 1:08:55
  been in covert contact for about 80 years, 2/3 of Americans would
• 1:08:59
  say yes, I'd more or less work that out.
• 1:09:02
  So I don't think that's going to be the meltdown.
• 1:09:06
  I think the biggest worry probably for the the 1% of the
• 1:09:13
  1%, the stakeholders is what it does to our economy.
• 1:09:17
  If all of a sudden it merges, we have access to free energy
• 1:09:23
  because if there's going to be openness about the legacy
• 1:09:26
  program, I believe that is what is going to emerge now.
• 1:09:31
  Ed Mitchell, the 6th man to walk on the moon, was on this page 20
• 1:09:37
  years ago doing everything he could to get what I've just said
• 1:09:42
  out. If we have access to 0 point
• 1:09:46
  energy then why do 8000 old age pensioners in Britain freeze to
• 1:09:55
  death every winter or die of hypothermia?
• 1:09:58
  Because they can't afford power, they can't afford to pay fuel
• 1:10:03
  bills. When you when you put that
• 1:10:07
  alongside having access to 0 point energy to free power, you
• 1:10:12
  realise that decisions have been made at some elite level that
• 1:10:17
  we're not going to share this technology and we don't mind
• 1:10:20
  8000 pensioners dying here. It's that kind of scandal.
• 1:10:24
  If you've got access to 0 point energy, what does that do to our
• 1:10:28
  friends in the electricity industry who seem to have so
• 1:10:33
  much control over Australian politics?
• 1:10:36
  What does that do to the political power of the oil
• 1:10:40
  barons who've had so much power over American politics for the
• 1:10:46
  last couple of generations? It's it's that power.
• 1:10:51
  It's those structures that I think are really threatened by
• 1:10:55
  the idea of Full disclosure. But I have to say I'm not 100%
• 1:11:02
  confident that we're on the brink of Full disclosure.
• 1:11:05
  I think that this latest, what can I say happening with
• 1:11:15
  President Trump saying he wants a declassification of UAP files.
• 1:11:20
  He wants a declassification of military intelligence files
• 1:11:24
  relating to contact with extraterrestrials.
• 1:11:28
  I don't think that's going to lead to more information being
• 1:11:32
  in the public domain than it is now.
• 1:11:35
  I think what's more likely to happen is that all the things
• 1:11:39
  that have been disclosed in the last nine years, so I'm talking
• 1:11:44
  about since the first disclosure of the 2004 Nimitz incident and
• 1:11:49
  everything that's flowed on from that, the David Grush complaint,
• 1:11:53
  the hearings, the briefing paper, through that process, a
• 1:11:56
  lot has come into the public domain.
• 1:12:00
  The fact that we have an entire craft in our possession, the
• 1:12:03
  fact that we have other meta materials that we've been
• 1:12:08
  studying, the fact that we've had access to non human
• 1:12:11
  biologics and pilots, all this language, all this is in the
• 1:12:16
  public domain. The Speaking of this information
• 1:12:20
  has been authorised by DOPSA and ICIG, the Inspector General of
• 1:12:24
  the intelligence community. It's earth shattering, but it
• 1:12:28
  hasn't been given the air time that it deserved.
• 1:12:31
  So I actually think what's going to happen following Donald
• 1:12:35
  Trump's request is that that information is going to get
• 1:12:38
  another airing, hopefully more broadly.
• 1:12:42
  Hopefully it will catch more people's attention, but I'm not
• 1:12:45
  optimistic we're going to get more information than that in
• 1:12:50
  the immediate future. And it's for those economic
• 1:12:54
  reasons. It's because of those vested
• 1:12:56
  interests that I mentioned earlier.
• 1:12:58
  Yeah, I'm of the, I'm of the same mind.
• 1:12:59
  I'm, I'm not expecting some earth shattering disclosure like
• 1:13:03
  here. You're going to wheel out some,
• 1:13:04
  you know, alien carcass and show it to us.
• 1:13:07
  I don't think that's that's going to happen, at least not in
• 1:13:09
  my lifetime. If if we were to consider the
• 1:13:15
  possibility of contact simply through the lens of Hollywood,
• 1:13:22
  we might be a bit scared because contact has often been framed as
• 1:13:27
  Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Mars Attacks, Independence Day.
• 1:13:33
  But when we listen to the the full kaleidoscope of ancient
• 1:13:37
  stories of contact, yes, there are stories of invasion.
• 1:13:42
  Yes, there are stories of exploitation.
• 1:13:45
  But the stories I hear, for instance, when I go to Turkey,
• 1:13:49
  when I look at the art in Armenia in what today is Iran,
• 1:13:55
  that's stories of contact of a positive kind.
• 1:13:59
  That's the story of us desperately needing help at a
• 1:14:03
  vulnerable point in our history as Homo sapiens, getting help
• 1:14:08
  from cosmic neighbors, getting help from cosmic cousins.
• 1:14:13
  And if you take those stories on board, then you might want to
• 1:14:17
  consider the possibility of contact today in a more positive
• 1:14:20
  light. When I listened to the stories
• 1:14:23
  of the Oratian people in modern day Turkey, I realised that they
• 1:14:28
  all hoped that the dingier would return and do some more
• 1:14:33
  technology sharing with them. Because the last time they did
• 1:14:36
  it, it was absolutely wonderful. It not only enabled us to
• 1:14:42
  survive and thrive, we were able to become a civilization because
• 1:14:46
  of the technology they shared with us.
• 1:14:47
  And I'm talking about agricultural science in
• 1:14:51
  particular. If they could look to the stars
• 1:14:55
  and hope that the dingier would return, well, that gives a very
• 1:15:00
  different framing of how we might look to the stars today.
• 1:15:04
  I also think when we listen to Indigenous story about contact,
• 1:15:08
  contact is much broader than seeing a craft in the sky or
• 1:15:12
  seeing a craft land and a little being getting out of it.
• 1:15:16
  When the flying saucer phenomenon really took off, if
• 1:15:23
  you pardon the pun, in the aftermath of the Second World
• 1:15:26
  War, governments were interested in trying to communicate with
• 1:15:30
  the craft that they were seeing and they were seeing sources.
• 1:15:33
  They were seeing cigar shaped craft as well and they did make
• 1:15:38
  attempts to communicate telepathically with these craft
• 1:15:43
  who were not responding to any of our radio communications.
• 1:15:47
  And they had the idea that these visitors were able to get
• 1:15:52
  messages through to us by some means they did not understand,
• 1:15:56
  but that we could sort of experience in a way that we
• 1:15:59
  would call telepathically. And that was based on
• 1:16:05
  traditional stories, that was based on Indigenous narratives.
• 1:16:10
  And I think when we listen to the full gamut of Indigenous
• 1:16:13
  narratives, we realize contact can be like that.
• 1:16:17
  I hear from people who say, I think I'm in contact with a
• 1:16:22
  being that's communicating to me.
• 1:16:24
  And of course, you have to do a lot of filtering at that point.
• 1:16:27
  There could be a lot of reasons for that.
• 1:16:28
  Maybe this person should be taking medication and, and, and
• 1:16:32
  they're not taking it. But you listen to enough
• 1:16:35
  indigenous story, you'll realise, you know, that is
• 1:16:37
  actually a, an ancient phenomenon and one that does not
• 1:16:42
  necessarily suggest any kind of pathology.
• 1:16:45
  It might suggest that we are in company with a whole diversity
• 1:16:49
  of beings who want to communicate, not just with
• 1:16:53
  corporate types or senior people in the world of military
• 1:16:57
  intelligence or senior politicians or covert.
• 1:17:00
  They want to be in communication with humanity in general and
• 1:17:04
  that's the story I find that emerges from our ancestors
• 1:17:08
  stories. It's there in the New Testament
• 1:17:10
  as well. If you go to 1 John chapter 4,
• 1:17:15
  the writer there fully expected early Christians to be having
• 1:17:18
  communication experiences with spirits and he never defines
• 1:17:25
  what he means by spirits. Now you and I hear that word and
• 1:17:29
  we might assume, oh, this is something disembodied, but in
• 1:17:32
  ancient times you would be called a spirit.
• 1:17:36
  If the person observing you couldn't work out how you'd
• 1:17:39
  shown up and how you'd disappeared.
• 1:17:41
  If you travelled down from the sky in a craft, got out, spoke
• 1:17:45
  to someone and and, and then flew away again, you would be a
• 1:17:48
  spirit. If you're able to project into
• 1:17:51
  somebody's room and talk to them, you would be a spirit.
• 1:17:55
  And So what does the writer mean by spirit?
• 1:17:58
  We don't know, but we know he's anticipating communication
• 1:18:02
  experiences. And then he talks about how to
• 1:18:05
  filter that, how to weigh that, not to give up your sovereignty
• 1:18:09
  when you have this experience to keep using your own mind.
• 1:18:12
  Does this make sense to me? Do I need to do anything about
• 1:18:14
  this? Do I believe it or not?
• 1:18:17
  And the writer wants the experiencer to take that view.
• 1:18:20
  And that's what I have often put to people who say they're having
• 1:18:24
  these experiences. That's very interesting.
• 1:18:27
  But don't give up your own mind, don't give up your own
• 1:18:30
  sovereignty. Don't feel you have to do
• 1:18:32
  anything about anything that you think you're hearing.
• 1:18:36
  These kind of contact experiences, I think are part of
• 1:18:39
  the kaleidoscope of the human experience.
• 1:18:43
  Some of those beings, well, if you go to traditional healers,
• 1:18:46
  very often they're a little bit agnostic as to who or what these
• 1:18:51
  voices are, who or what these spirits are.
• 1:18:53
  Are they ancestors? Are they interdimensional
• 1:18:56
  beings? Are they material beings like
• 1:18:58
  you and me? But who can communicate in this
• 1:19:00
  way that we don't understand? That is all part of the human
• 1:19:05
  experience. And I would include that in my
• 1:19:07
  understanding of the phenomenon, and it encourages me the idea
• 1:19:11
  that our visitors are not just talking to the elites, but they
• 1:19:16
  are talking to ordinary human beings around the world and have
• 1:19:20
  been doing that for thousands of years.
• 1:19:22
  Now I love that. I really do.
• 1:19:23
  I I really think that it's it's whole take me to your leader.
• 1:19:27
  They don't they're not going to want to talk to President Trump
• 1:19:30
  or or President Putin or anybody like that.
• 1:19:33
  But but what would you were just saying there?
• 1:19:35
  It made me think of in the wake of the David Grush stuff.
• 1:19:38
  There was the other guy, Jake Barber, the helicopter pilot
• 1:19:41
  that he did an interview with Ross Coulter.
• 1:19:43
  I got to give it to you guys from Australia.
• 1:19:45
  There's so many more of you guys that are on on top of, you know,
• 1:19:48
  this, this subject matter. But he talked about when he was
• 1:19:51
  in that helicopter retrieving that little egg orb thing and
• 1:19:55
  just having this profound spiritual connection with this
• 1:19:59
  physical object that you can see camera footage of, you know,
• 1:20:02
  dangling from the bottom of this helicopter could it's not a
• 1:20:04
  disembodied spirit down there. But he described this very
• 1:20:07
  intense spiritual, psychic connection with this thing.
• 1:20:11
  Yes, I mean we talked about psychological earlier and it is
• 1:20:15
  worth acknowledging that people experience psychological after
• 1:20:22
  effects of getting close to these craft or seeing these
• 1:20:27
  craft. And it's again, it's not to
• 1:20:30
  suggest any pathology, it's to say there is an effect that
• 1:20:35
  seeing these things has. And movie I would really
• 1:20:42
  recommend that delves into this question is Witness of Another
• 1:20:47
  World by Alan Stevelman that follows the story of an
• 1:20:51
  experiencer who experienced a close encounter, I think it was
• 1:20:55
  in the 1980s in Argentina. And that movie really explores
• 1:21:01
  what is happening to our mind, our perception, our
• 1:21:04
  consciousness when we get close to these crafts, when we
• 1:21:08
  interact with them. I have a little speculation
• 1:21:11
  here. Pilots who have tried to track
• 1:21:16
  or engage with Tic Tac craft, for instance, have often
• 1:21:21
  observed how they moved and have said it's almost like you're
• 1:21:25
  looking at a creature rather than a craft being piloted by a
• 1:21:30
  separate being. And they've speculated there
• 1:21:33
  must be some kind of direct interface between the mind of
• 1:21:38
  the pilot and the movement of the craft, because that's how it
• 1:21:41
  seems to move. So if there is this mysterious
• 1:21:46
  interface between the non human biologics inside the craft and
• 1:21:50
  the craft itself, then perhaps we shouldn't be surprised if
• 1:21:54
  when you get close to that material, close to that craft,
• 1:21:58
  it's going to have a funny impact on your own perception,
• 1:22:02
  your own mind, your own consciousness.
• 1:22:05
  I think it's part of the properties of the craft that we
• 1:22:10
  should expect that, but that's just my speculation.
• 1:22:13
  I, I, I think you're on to something with that.
• 1:22:15
  I really do that. That seems to make the most
• 1:22:17
  sense to me because that's how a lot of it is described as the,
• 1:22:20
  the occupant is part of the, the, the craft itself Is, is, is
• 1:22:25
  what the is the living thing here.
• 1:22:26
  And that's what I think the. And as we've.
• 1:22:29
  Gotten they're real careful to talk the way they talk about
• 1:22:31
  this. They'll use terms like we've got
• 1:22:33
  non human biologics. They don't say we've got alien
• 1:22:35
  bodies we've got. Extraterrestrials, they say non
• 1:22:39
  biologics. That's correct.
• 1:22:41
  You're, you're absolutely right to pick up on that.
• 1:22:43
  So David Grinch did use 2 words, non human biologics and he did
• 1:22:48
  use the word pilots. And you're right to point out
• 1:22:52
  this blurring of so where did the biologics stop and the craft
• 1:22:56
  start? Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:22:58
  I think you're looking in absolutely the right direction.
• 1:23:01
  I love how this has been dramatized in science fiction
• 1:23:05
  because people who watch Star Trek will be immediately
• 1:23:09
  thinking about the spore Dr. where a person sort of plugs
• 1:23:13
  themselves into the machine so that their mind can then get the
• 1:23:17
  craft to ping into another bit of the cosmos.
• 1:23:21
  So it's a cinematic way of showing what exactly what you
• 1:23:26
  were talking about, what really is flagged by the very careful
• 1:23:31
  use of language that you identified there in the
• 1:23:34
  statements that have been made publicly.
• 1:23:35
  And again, that's just what's been made public.
• 1:23:38
  Yeah, I had, I had to think, I had to think long and hard about
• 1:23:41
  that because when it when it when it first started and I
• 1:23:43
  heard him use that term non human biologic, my initial
• 1:23:45
  reaction was what the heck does that mean?
• 1:23:47
  That's a weird. I've never heard it put that way
• 1:23:49
  before. That's that's a.
• 1:23:51
  Why are we using those words? Yeah, exactly.
• 1:23:54
  Paul if there's if there's one idea about ancient paleo contact
• 1:23:58
  that you wish more people understood, what would that be?
• 1:24:01
  I think just to get in to the world of ancient story, I think
• 1:24:07
  our ancestors had ways of understanding this world that
• 1:24:13
  are very informative, informative of geopolitics,
• 1:24:19
  informative of why things work the way they do.
• 1:24:24
  And certainly it was their view that you won't have a full
• 1:24:27
  understanding of why the world works as it does until you are
• 1:24:31
  factoring in a non human layer to the story.
• 1:24:36
  And though that sounds initially worrying or sinister, I am very
• 1:24:42
  encouraged by the kaleidoscope of contact experiences that our
• 1:24:46
  ancestors describe that so much of it is positive.
• 1:24:51
  And even within the pages of the Bible, the vestiges of that
• 1:24:55
  world view are there. And we're told by the prophet
• 1:24:59
  Jeremiah in the book of Books of 1 and 2 Kings that there were
• 1:25:04
  many people at that time in the in the 8th, 7th centuries BCE
• 1:25:09
  who remembered the stories of contact as something positive.
• 1:25:15
  They remember stories of contact that had advanced the human
• 1:25:20
  experience, just like the Urartians had their stories of
• 1:25:24
  contact advancing human science. I think we need to look at the
• 1:25:29
  cosmos in a much more optimistic and intelligent way.
• 1:25:33
  That contact with our cosmic cousins can be very positive,
• 1:25:39
  and we need to be making decisions, whether that's
• 1:25:43
  individually, but certainly when we get to covert government, in
• 1:25:48
  conversations, behind closed doors, in the corridors of
• 1:25:51
  power, we need to make decisions that really make the most of who
• 1:25:58
  we are as a human civilization, part of a galactic civilization.
• 1:26:07
  I think the potential for a better human experience is
• 1:26:11
  there, but we need to be intelligent about it.
• 1:26:14
  And if we want more disclosure, I think we have to show
• 1:26:19
  ourselves more emotionally ready, more intellectually
• 1:26:22
  ready. It's the thing that motivates me
• 1:26:24
  to write the Eden books to say to people, get ready for this.
• 1:26:29
  Don't be panicked by this. We've been given so much wisdom
• 1:26:32
  by our ancestors to be ready for a moment like this, whether
• 1:26:36
  we're talking politics, geopolitics, or contact.
• 1:26:40
  So let's draw on all the wisdom that's been bequeathed to aspire
• 1:26:44
  ancestors. And that's really what The Fifth
• 1:26:47
  Kind, the Paul Wallace Channel, Ancient Knowledge Academy and
• 1:26:50
  the Eden series are all about. I want to thank you so very much
• 1:26:54
  for taking the time to talk with me today.
• 1:26:55
  And come on my show, guys, you need to go pick up the whole
• 1:27:01
  book series, the whole Eden series.
• 1:27:03
  Tell them where they can. I'll, I'll put links to the
• 1:27:05
  books in the description of the video.
• 1:27:07
  Tell people about Ancient Knowledge Academy.
• 1:27:09
  This is another great thing you're doing.
• 1:27:11
  What do you want people to know before we get off here?
• 1:27:13
  Well, if you go to ancientknowledgeacademy.com,
• 1:27:17
  this is our online learning community where we do deep dives
• 1:27:23
  into all the topics that we've talked about today and it's a
• 1:27:26
  wonderful group of people, very intelligent, very open minded
• 1:27:31
  discussions that we have there. I'm really enjoying it.
• 1:27:34
  That's ancient knowledgeacademy.com.
• 1:27:37
  If you want to come with me to any of the places I've discussed
• 1:27:41
  in Turkey or Thailand, go to ancientknowledgetours.com.
• 1:27:46
  If you want to read up on my work, go to Amazon and you'll
• 1:27:50
  find Escaping from Eden, The Scars of Eden, Echoes of Eden,
• 1:27:54
  The Eden Conspiracy, The Invasion of Eden, and The Eden
• 1:27:58
  Enigma and enjoy reading through those.
• 1:28:01
  If you want to get into conversation with me on these
• 1:28:04
  topics or compare notes as you go through the books, you can go
• 1:28:07
  to my website, which is Paul Anthony wallace.com and I will
• 1:28:11
  look forward to meeting you there and getting into
• 1:28:14
  conversation with you and. I'll put.
• 1:28:16
  Links. Oh, and on YouTube, I mustn't
• 1:28:18
  forget. See me on YouTube on The 5th
• 1:28:21
  Kind and also on the Paul Wallace channel.
• 1:28:25
  All the links to Paul's work will be in the description of
• 1:28:28
  the video. Paul, thank you so much again
• 1:28:29
  for coming on the show. Have a great day.
• 1:28:32
  We'll do this again soon. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:28:34
  It's been a real pleasure and I wish you every success with your
• 1:28:36
  interview series. Thank you so much.