Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / LIVE FROM CRIME CON 2021: Cult Mom Lori Vallow manipulates Judge?

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LIVE FROM CRIME CON 2021: Cult Mom Lori Vallow manipulates Judge? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. We are live at Crime
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Speaker 1: Con twenty twenty one in Austin. According to a secret
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Speaker 1: grand jury called Mom Lorie Valo and I quote used
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Speaker 1: her religious beliefs to cover up crime I a murder.
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Speaker 1: Rarely have I seen that written in a grand jury indictment.
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Speaker 1: Typically grand jurors who are often taken from voter registration.
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Speaker 1: Maybe it's called grand because they're thirty forty members of
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Speaker 1: a grand jury for a headit or petite jury of twelve.
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Speaker 1: That here's a particular case a grand jury, for instance,
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Speaker 1: in City of Atlanta, grand jury met Tuesday Thursday. They
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Speaker 1: would have one hundred fifty cases a day. They would
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Speaker 1: go just like that, bam bam, bam, bam bam, usual
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Speaker 1: with one witness and then you walk out the grand
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Speaker 1: jury vote. They would go push the buzzards and then
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Speaker 1: you'll bring in the next case. It's really fast. It's
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Speaker 1: not a decision of guilt or innocence. It is simply
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Speaker 1: is there enough evidence to take this to a petit
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Speaker 1: petite small jury of twelve. So I've never seen actually
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Speaker 1: the detail added in the indictment, which is usually the jurisdiction.
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Speaker 1: The general date of the offense, the defendant, the victim,
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Speaker 1: the motive death if known, and a list, a bare
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Speaker 1: bones list of the state's witnesses on the back. That's
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Speaker 1: what an indictment is. It's signed by the jury four person.
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Speaker 1: This indictment I found very interesting, Nate, because it goes
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Speaker 1: to say that she basically cloaked herself in her fake
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Speaker 1: religion as an excuse to commit murder. Let me introduce
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Speaker 1: to you an all star panel of guests to make
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Speaker 1: sense of the case. First of all, Joseph Scott Morgan,
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Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My
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Speaker 1: Feet on Amazon and now start of a brand new
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Speaker 1: series on iHeart Piketon Massacre returned to Pike Countington. Doctor
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Speaker 1: Angela Arnold renounced psychiatrists joining us out of the Atlanta
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Speaker 1: jurisdiction and you can find her and Angela Arnold MD
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Speaker 1: dot com. Andy Cohn my longtime friend and colleague. He
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Speaker 1: created the phrase murder rebelia and inspired me to write
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Speaker 1: a chapter called Blood Money and my first book, Objection.
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Speaker 1: And after I wrote that chapter, Andy, I destroyed the laptop.
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Speaker 1: It was so horrible, like people trying to get bloody clothes.
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Speaker 1: When crime sing it was only a three hundred dollars
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Speaker 1: to ninety nine Hewlett packards. So it's just not that
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Speaker 1: big with him. But I thought it was a bad luck.
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Speaker 1: Andy Kahn, Director of Victim Services and Advocacy Crimestoppers of Houston,
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Speaker 1: and you can find him at Crimestoppers dot org. Ashley Wilcot,
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Speaker 1: judge and trial lawyer, court TV anchor, veteran courtroom advocate,
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Speaker 1: and you can find her at Ashley Wilcott dot com.
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Speaker 1: Nate Eating Nate. It's with the East Idaho News dot com,
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Speaker 1: Twitter at Nate knees Now, Instagram at n dot eating.
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Speaker 1: Good lord, ma'am. Anyway, do you remember when Laurie Valet
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Speaker 1: was located in Hawaii and she was walking off with
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Speaker 1: her new husband and you can see a hand running
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Speaker 1: along with a recorder going, hey, where are your children?
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Speaker 1: Where your children are you? That was his hand. He
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Speaker 1: was chasing Hall right there, he was facing her. Of course.
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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, a longtime friend in the trenches, we prosecuted together.
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Speaker 1: We have completely different stories about how she met how
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Speaker 1: we met, but that's for another day. Forensic expert, the
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Speaker 1: founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute and
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Speaker 1: you can find her at coldcase dot org, Coldcase Crimes
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Speaker 1: dot org. And Spencer Courson, founder President of Course and
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Speaker 1: Security Group at Coursen Security Group dot com, author of
4:31
Speaker 1: the Safety Trap, which is really good a security expert
4:36
Speaker 1: secrets for staying safe in a dangerous world. You can
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Speaker 1: find that at safety trap dot com. Good lord, man,
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Speaker 1: I don't even have time to read all this about
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Speaker 1: Spencer Courson, but let's just get right down to it.
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Speaker 1: The very latest in the Cultmum Laurie Valle case, and
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Speaker 1: let's don't leave out our connive and fifth husband, Chad
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Speaker 1: Dave al Decult leader. She has just been declared incompetent
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Speaker 1: to stay in trial, which is just burning me up.
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Speaker 1: She kills, allegedly kills JJ who was seven, Tyley who
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Speaker 1: was sixteen at the time. Then she's got a dead husband,
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Speaker 1: Joe Ryan, who died in his sleep. Then she's got
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Speaker 1: Tammy day Bell, her husband's wife. I love this. Tammy
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Speaker 1: day Bell dies of her sleep. But before she died,
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Speaker 1: Colt Mom had already researched beach wedding dress and bought
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Speaker 1: it on Google, and bought a ring and bought her
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Speaker 1: husband's outfit that they wore two weeks later to their
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Speaker 1: beach wedding in Hawaii. So either she's a killer or
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Speaker 1: she's claire voyant. But now it has been declared incompetent.
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Speaker 1: Now to the lawyers as she willcot. Incompetent is a
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Speaker 1: lot different from being declared in Signe explained, right, absolutely, So.
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Speaker 1: Incompetent means is that hopefully loud enough. Incompetent means at
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Speaker 1: the time they cannot assist in their trial, in their defense,
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Speaker 1: as you well know, Nancy. And so if someone is
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Speaker 1: not able to assist in their defense, they're declared incompetent.
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Speaker 1: But let me suggest it's a moment in time, and
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Speaker 1: it's very different. It doesn't mean they have a mental
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Speaker 1: health diagnosis, for example. It means at the moment in time,
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Speaker 1: and so you said earlier, and it really struck with me, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: that they could say, for instance, oh, my child was
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Speaker 1: possessed by zombies and appear to be very not capable
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Speaker 1: of assisting in their defense, and at that moment they
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Speaker 1: will be declared incompetent. It can be reassessed, which is
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Speaker 1: very important today. And I noticed Nate at Nancy exactly
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Speaker 1: what the judge said in his order, can you imagine
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Speaker 1: all these people did? Oh wait, I left out another husband,
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Speaker 1: Charles Valoe, who was taught was JJ's dad, came to visit.
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Speaker 1: He got shot dead by cult mom and her brother,
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Speaker 1: Alex Cox. Now Alex Cox is dead. Have I left
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Speaker 1: any dead people out? I mean, don't you think that's
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Speaker 1: suspicious that nobody noticed until they're what six dead bodies?
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Speaker 1: I saw you counting, but incompetent and in Sandy's very different.
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Speaker 1: Tell me about how Oh I noticed the judge. That's
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Speaker 1: what I was going to ask you night. The judge said,
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Speaker 1: she may be incompetent right now, but let us rehabilitate
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Speaker 1: her and we'll revisit. Yeah. So the psychiatrist went in
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Speaker 1: and spent hours with her. What psychiatrist an independent psychiatrist
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Speaker 1: tired by the state. So the state went in and
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Speaker 1: her defense attorney requested the psychiatrist. They got an independent psychiatrist.
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Speaker 1: He goes in and says, she's not competent right now,
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Speaker 1: but we believe that with rehabilitation or medication, she may
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Speaker 1: be able to become competent. So the judge still needs
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Speaker 1: to rule all of this. I just thought of a
8:00
Speaker 1: good comparison. Wanda Barzi. Do you remember that perv that
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Speaker 1: stole Elizabeth Smart and his freaky wife, Wanda Barzi. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: they said she was incompetent and they got her stabilized
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Speaker 1: on drugs and so forth, and she's stood trial and
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Speaker 1: was convicted exactly. Yeah, people have referenced that. So there's
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Speaker 1: a chance that in three months, six months and three
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Speaker 1: months they'll review it. In ninety days they'll come back
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Speaker 1: and they could say, Okay, she's competent or she's not.
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Speaker 1: They didn't have one hundred and eighty days to get
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Speaker 1: her to the point of competency. If not, she then
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Speaker 1: goes to the point they just wait. They wait until
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Speaker 1: she's competent. She's not released. The case isn't over. It
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Speaker 1: could take six months, six years before she becomes competent.
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Speaker 1: There is no six years. Well, there's no insanity. I mean, really, Cheryl,
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Speaker 1: this is a woman that was trying to get her
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Speaker 1: hair and her mermaid curls to come to court and
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Speaker 1: paint her toenails. Yeah, Bright, what was it turquoise, and
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Speaker 1: was trying to make home a lip gloss behind bars.
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Speaker 1: She's named more incompetent than we are. She's incompetent to
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Speaker 1: be a mother straight up. Yeah, the problem with her
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Speaker 1: to me, and Nancy knows this. But the way Nancy
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Speaker 1: and now used to work cases back in the day
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Speaker 1: is you break it down to its most elementary form,
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Speaker 1: and you have got a woman that could plan on
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Speaker 1: how she's going to murder her children, how she's going
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Speaker 1: to plan a wedding, how she's going to plan an escape,
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Speaker 1: how she's going to stay on the lamb. She's competent
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Speaker 1: to stand trial, she can participate in all of those things.
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Speaker 1: She can damn well participate in. Her friends gave me
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Speaker 1: a flashback. Okay, so they took the children's items, their
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Speaker 1: possessions and put them in storage and part because they're dead,
10:00
Speaker 1: and part of that was caught on video. And isn't
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Speaker 1: there a Partnate eating where it shows caught mom Laurie
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Speaker 1: Valo and I guess day Bill and they paused to
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Speaker 1: kiss or he grabs her booty, he grabs her butt
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Speaker 1: and Nancy, these were items that you would if your
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Speaker 1: house was on fire, you would leave the house with
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Speaker 1: a blanket covered in photos of JJ, a blanket covered
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Speaker 1: in photos of Tiley, the jerseys you know it's their
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Speaker 1: first sports jerseys framed minutes David, what is it? My husband?
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Speaker 1: What does it mean to you? If I say this
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Speaker 1: goes as sentimental? It's clothes that I keep, like one
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Speaker 1: of their favorite shirts or a PJ. And I don't
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Speaker 1: want to give it to goodwill. I don't want to
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Speaker 1: give it away. And we have a bunch of those
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Speaker 1: plastic bins in the basement that I fold it up
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Speaker 1: well and then give it to him, and he takes
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Speaker 1: it down there and puts it in there. No way
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Speaker 1: would I throw a white a blanket with all their
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Speaker 1: pictures on it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Can we
11:19
Speaker 1: get back to the booty grab if you'd like, soaving
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Speaker 1: her children's clothes, her children's clothes at storage and that
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Speaker 1: booty grab was when Tammy was still alive. So Chad
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Speaker 1: was visiting that storage unit with Lorie when his wife
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Speaker 1: was at home. Now when you call him other first names,
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Speaker 1: you're right, day belle, mister, and now Nancy, we know
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Speaker 1: that that was happening when the kids were buried in
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Speaker 1: his backyard. Those visits to the storage units, they were
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Speaker 1: taking those items as they were buried in his yard,
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Speaker 1: and his wife Tammy was inside the house, likely not
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Speaker 1: knowing that they were out there. Okay, Spencer, course and
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Speaker 1: just got Morgan are just upon it in the bit
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Speaker 1: go I would. I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a judge.
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Speaker 1: I'm just curious when when when council mandates that these
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Speaker 1: people go in for an independent psyche vow, what is
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Speaker 1: how what's the ratio on the time that people are
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Speaker 1: declared competent versus incompetent? Because if incompetent is it sounds
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Speaker 1: to me like a like a cover your butt quote.
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Speaker 1: Like when I was in the military, we would always
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Speaker 1: go in these operations. The intel community would say at
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Speaker 1: this time there's no bad guys there. That they were
12:31
Speaker 1: sending us into a trap because by the time we
12:33
Speaker 1: got there there could be bad guys there, but by
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Speaker 1: by them saying at this time there's no intelligence to
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Speaker 1: support bad guys coming at you, Is this is incompetent
12:44
Speaker 1: because it's so at this moment? Is that a cya
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Speaker 1: or the psychiatrists for the evalue. Actually, you're very astute,
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Speaker 1: and it's not a bad thing not debate a lawyer
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Speaker 1: or a judge. I specifically married a non lawyer. You're
13:00
Speaker 1: so right. I think this is a little bit of
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Speaker 1: cya because the judge, Come on, she's saying, my children
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Speaker 1: are zombies. They had to die. His wife was possessed
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Speaker 1: by the evil spirit viola. She had to die. That
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Speaker 1: sounds a little crazy, right, But she knew it was
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Speaker 1: wrong because they buried the remains and, as Cheryl McCollum said,
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Speaker 1: took off on the lamb to hide out, which is
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Speaker 1: evidence of guilt. I think this is the judge saying, okay,
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Speaker 1: you think she's in competent defense, Fine, let's go have
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Speaker 1: an exam. Let's give her time to get rehabilitated until
13:38
Speaker 1: she is competent. So he is now or she has
13:42
Speaker 1: covered their rear ends on appeal if there's a conviction.
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Speaker 1: That's what I think is going to Oh, Joe Scott's
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Speaker 1: face is contorting. I usually don't getting to see this
13:53
Speaker 1: because I'm in a studio, which is Jackie. But okay,
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Speaker 1: what what what you know? Having worked having worked as
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Speaker 1: a death investigator in Atlanta and New Orleans, all right?
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Speaker 1: The idea, I think that the real hard thing to
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Speaker 1: get your mind around. As an investigator, you begin to
14:11
Speaker 1: think about, well, what are the odds that someone that
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Speaker 1: one individual is going to it's going to be in
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Speaker 1: the presence of multiple victims on this kind of linear
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Speaker 1: timeline that you're thinking about with all of these people
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Speaker 1: falling over dead. I've been around dead, a lot of
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Speaker 1: dead bodies in my career, and a lot of people
14:29
Speaker 1: that have experienced death, but I've never seen a case
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Speaker 1: that's like this where you can kind of mark the
14:34
Speaker 1: time as time goes by, and you've got to literally
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Speaker 1: string of corpses that kind of our little benchmarks along
14:41
Speaker 1: just these two people and specifically Valos, you know life,
14:49
Speaker 1: you know, where these people are falling over dead and
14:51
Speaker 1: you're thinking, well, what are the odds that this could
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Speaker 1: actually happen to just the random person that's out there
14:58
Speaker 1: living among us. I want everybody in here to think about,
15:00
Speaker 1: just for a second, as sad as this is, think
15:02
Speaker 1: about how many people in your life you've had that
15:04
Speaker 1: have just passed away, you know, And there's no way
15:08
Speaker 1: that someone on average is going to match this number.
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Speaker 1: And we're not talking about people that are greatly infirmed,
15:15
Speaker 1: that are up in age. The one case for me
15:17
Speaker 1: and all of these that has kind of stood out
15:19
Speaker 1: as Tammy day Bell. You know, how does this perfectly
15:22
Speaker 1: healthy woman about to run a marathon. Yeah, about to
15:26
Speaker 1: run a marathon. She's t be nine years old, you know,
15:29
Speaker 1: at the picture of health. And suddenly she just dies.
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Speaker 1: And then the authorities, I'll say it, I don't care,
15:37
Speaker 1: don't have the good sense to go out and examine
15:39
Speaker 1: her body and then release her body without ever drawing
15:43
Speaker 1: any blood at all. They can't do talks. So once
15:46
Speaker 1: she crosses state lines, and when you take a body
15:49
Speaker 1: across state lines, it has to be embalmed. So guess
15:52
Speaker 1: what happens anything at from a chemical perspective, if you're
15:56
Speaker 1: looking for foreign substances, anything, it's gone because the blood's
16:01
Speaker 1: been drained out. They've been involved, and now she's in
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Speaker 1: the ground for I don't know, eleven weeks, ten weeks
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Speaker 1: before they disinter her. Say it's a major problem along
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Speaker 1: this and anybody that actually thinks that this is norm,
16:14
Speaker 1: that this is the norm, is off the rocker. And
16:18
Speaker 1: so wait a minute, just Scott, before I lose his thought. Yeah,
16:21
Speaker 1: says they cannot prove it from the exhimation digging up
16:26
Speaker 1: her body because the tissue in the blood is no
16:28
Speaker 1: good anymore. Yeah, you're you're absolutely right, and you know,
16:32
Speaker 1: she was not autopsy. Just so that everyone understands we're
16:35
Speaker 1: talking about Tammy. Okay, she was not autopsy. She was
16:38
Speaker 1: just sent to Utah where she was buried at a
16:41
Speaker 1: family plot. So unless she had if everybody will kind
16:46
Speaker 1: of feel along their neck right here, you have what
16:48
Speaker 1: are referred to as strap muscles. They're in here, and
16:50
Speaker 1: say you've got a choking event like this, you might
16:54
Speaker 1: have little focal areas of humors here. And of course
16:56
Speaker 1: you've heard Nancy for years and years talking about batiki ei.
16:59
Speaker 1: Those are the little blood vessels that pop due to
17:01
Speaker 1: this kind of this this indwelling pressure. It's created as
17:05
Speaker 1: you do this, these vessels. And if you're absent that
17:09
Speaker 1: are you going to look? Because there's nothing else we
17:11
Speaker 1: there to our knowledge, there's no evidence of a gunshot wound,
17:15
Speaker 1: there's no evidence of stabbing, beating, anything like that. And
17:18
Speaker 1: you know, and forever there has got to be asphyxiation
17:21
Speaker 1: or poisoning or poisoning. And one of the things that
17:24
Speaker 1: kind of came to mind, you know, half the world
17:26
Speaker 1: is utilizing some form of insulin. Now, you know, what's
17:30
Speaker 1: to say you couldn't have got his hands on insulin
17:32
Speaker 1: and injected her and she just went into a common
17:34
Speaker 1: died and what if he got her his hands on
17:37
Speaker 1: were hibban al ghb, date rap drup odeed her, you
17:40
Speaker 1: know those sorts of things. So you got all these
17:42
Speaker 1: permutations that are working, and you're thinking, how, how in
17:45
Speaker 1: the world, how in the world did they just allow
17:48
Speaker 1: her to slip away without ever examining this. Well, I'll
17:51
Speaker 1: tell you how because the next of ken decides that
17:54
Speaker 1: they're going to be autopsy. So they asked Jan Damel went, oh, no,
17:57
Speaker 1: then that's what we're good. So how are they going
17:59
Speaker 1: to prove it as that you believe there were a
18:01
Speaker 1: lot of texts and phone calls and emails terabytes. Oh okay,
18:07
Speaker 1: explain to everybody that's not a computer whiz what that means. Terrible.
18:11
Speaker 1: So a gigabyte is a lot of information terabytes. It
18:14
Speaker 1: would it could take months and months, literally months and
18:18
Speaker 1: months to go through all of the text messages between
18:21
Speaker 1: Chad and Lorie and her deceased brother Alex, who was
18:25
Speaker 1: parked at a church parking lot less than two miles
18:28
Speaker 1: from Tammy's house the night she died. They've tracked his
18:31
Speaker 1: phone to that parking lot and they mentioned that in
18:34
Speaker 1: the indictment, So sitting there like a vulture and maybe
18:38
Speaker 1: was his car there and he was at the home.
18:41
Speaker 1: Was what was he doing that night? They also were
18:44
Speaker 1: able to track down his exact pin points in Chad
18:47
Speaker 1: Davil's backyard where they found the bodies and where they
18:51
Speaker 1: know the times that those bodies were buried. Alex's cell
18:54
Speaker 1: phone ping there so through you know, GPS coordinates. His
18:59
Speaker 1: GPS was on on his phone. So they didn't talk
19:03
Speaker 1: about Tammy how she died in the indictments, but they
19:06
Speaker 1: know how she died because it's it's come back. The
19:09
Speaker 1: autopsy has come back, and I think they're saving that
19:12
Speaker 1: for trial and they know. I think they have a
19:15
Speaker 1: very strong timeline down to the minute the night she died.
19:19
Speaker 1: Who was where? And I mean, let's get real, andy,
19:23
Speaker 1: people people cannot change who they are. There was a
19:27
Speaker 1: story I would tell the jury about the mister tortoise
19:32
Speaker 1: and mister scorpion and the scorpion kept begging please carry
19:37
Speaker 1: me across the river, and the turtle said no, you'll
19:41
Speaker 1: bite me and we'll both die, and the scorpion said,
19:44
Speaker 1: I promise I won't, So he said, okay, hop on
19:47
Speaker 1: halfway across, mister Turtle feels a pain go down his
19:52
Speaker 1: arm and he said, why did you bite me? Now
19:54
Speaker 1: we'll both die, and the Scorpions said, it's just my nigher.
20:00
Speaker 1: My point is, you know they were texting and calling.
20:04
Speaker 1: There's gonna be rams of digital analysis. You know, let's
20:09
Speaker 1: cut through the crap, let's cut through the bs, let's
20:11
Speaker 1: cut through the red tape, and let's just be really
20:14
Speaker 1: in a dose of common sense about valor. You know,
20:17
Speaker 1: the last execution that I attended, we execute people in Texas,
20:21
Speaker 1: they gave a guy a ninety day reprieve and I said,
20:24
Speaker 1: you know what, he bought himself a little bit of time,
20:26
Speaker 1: But eventually it's going to happen, and it did happen,
20:30
Speaker 1: and the same thing's going to happen in this particular case.
20:32
Speaker 1: You're going to buy a little bit of time. But
20:34
Speaker 1: eventually she is a cold blooded, diabolical, cunning, premeditated murderer.
20:41
Speaker 1: And when you look at some of the stuff that's
20:43
Speaker 1: come out on her, particularly from the money angles getting
20:47
Speaker 1: trying to get life insurance, why did she kill What
20:50
Speaker 1: was the motive for her killing her children? They were
20:53
Speaker 1: reliabilities right. Eventually, it's going to happen. So I know
20:59
Speaker 1: it's hard for people. And as someone who has served
21:01
Speaker 1: on the Board of Parents and Murder Children and Surviving
21:04
Speaker 1: Family Members a homicide for thirty years, ideal with homicide survivors,
21:10
Speaker 1: Lorie val is not a homicide survivor. She's a homicidal
21:14
Speaker 1: maniac and eventually it's going to catch up to her.
21:16
Speaker 1: Why do you say Laurie Valo is not a victim
21:20
Speaker 1: when both of her children were murdered. It's kind of
21:24
Speaker 1: like Darley Rudier, you remember her in Dallas, a silly
21:27
Speaker 1: string lady right here, you know, with her two kids.
21:30
Speaker 1: You know, it would be kind of like calling Andrew
21:32
Speaker 1: Yates a victim as well. No, well, I agree with you.
21:37
Speaker 1: I was just interested in your analysis because she did
21:39
Speaker 1: not act like a victim at all. No, I mean,
21:45
Speaker 1: no brieving mother. Yes, whose are gone, it's going to
21:49
Speaker 1: act the way she did. No one's going to take
21:52
Speaker 1: off and go to Hawaii. No one's going to pretend
21:55
Speaker 1: you know, this isn't happening. And you know, we just
21:58
Speaker 1: had a case right here that you and I are
21:59
Speaker 1: going to talk about next week of a six year
22:01
Speaker 1: old that disappeared and the body was just found right here,
22:06
Speaker 1: and no one seemed to no one even bother to
22:09
Speaker 1: report a missing for a month. Normal families, parents and
22:14
Speaker 1: mother's stone act. In this former factor, it's going to
22:18
Speaker 1: cash up to her crime stories with Nancy Grace. Okay,
22:35
Speaker 1: jump in, doctor. You know, I think in all of this,
22:39
Speaker 1: Nancy and I think it's so hard for people to
22:46
Speaker 1: believe that someone is capable of this, to believe that
22:49
Speaker 1: a mother is actually capable of killing her own children
22:53
Speaker 1: and killing all of these other people that were in
22:55
Speaker 1: her way. And that's why we keep talking about it.
22:58
Speaker 1: We really cannot understand what in the world was going
23:01
Speaker 1: through her head. Is she mentally ill? Is she delusional?
23:04
Speaker 1: Is she just evil? Does she want money? I don't
23:08
Speaker 1: know if we're ever going to know the answer to
23:10
Speaker 1: all of those questions. But the most important thing is
23:13
Speaker 1: it appears she killed a lot of people and she
23:15
Speaker 1: needs to bear the consequences of that, doesn't she And
23:19
Speaker 1: and I don't you know what if she's if she's
23:22
Speaker 1: mentally ill somehow, I don't know. I'd love to have
23:24
Speaker 1: the opportunity to talk to her if you want to
23:26
Speaker 1: know the truth. Really ill, after she took off a
23:28
Speaker 1: head out in Hawaii. Right. I'm not saying she's no. No,
23:33
Speaker 1: I'm not no. I think that I think that there's
23:38
Speaker 1: a possibility that she may have been living under some delusions,
23:43
Speaker 1: maybe a delusion, the delusions that came from her church
23:48
Speaker 1: that if she was so, if she was so in
23:52
Speaker 1: team with the Lord, why was she sleeping with another
23:55
Speaker 1: woman's husband. Well, you know, a delusion. But a delusion
24:01
Speaker 1: is a fixed false belief, okay, And you can you
24:06
Speaker 1: can make up anything in your head and believe it, Nancy, Okay.
24:10
Speaker 1: I had a woman come into the psychiatric ear one time,
24:13
Speaker 1: covered in soot. This she had been living like under
24:18
Speaker 1: the base boards of her house, and by God, she
24:20
Speaker 1: came in and told us that she was Elvis Presley's wife,
24:24
Speaker 1: and she believed that with all of her heart and
24:26
Speaker 1: there we could not break her of that. We were
24:29
Speaker 1: never going to break that delusion. So I don't know
24:31
Speaker 1: if Laurie Valo is delusion. I'm also not saying that
24:34
Speaker 1: it's an excuse. I would also add that throughout human history,
24:39
Speaker 1: religion has very often been a scapegoat. It's been an
24:43
Speaker 1: excuse for atrocity. Point and when people I bet you
24:47
Speaker 1: saw that what I see is someone who believes that
24:50
Speaker 1: her actions were righteous, and therefore she has no guilt. Therefore,
24:56
Speaker 1: that's why there's so much information, because they weren't trying
24:58
Speaker 1: to hide it, because they believed what they were doing
25:01
Speaker 1: was God's will. And so when you have when you
25:06
Speaker 1: have that kind of delusion, which was especially from her
25:11
Speaker 1: husband who saw her as a fan, so she was
25:15
Speaker 1: already she already had a predetermined I mean, we saw
25:19
Speaker 1: this with the Tom Cruise Kittie Holmes thing. He picked
25:22
Speaker 1: her because she was a fan of his. And when
25:26
Speaker 1: you have those people who pry on the inherent weaknesses,
25:29
Speaker 1: when they find what you're emotionally attached to and then
25:32
Speaker 1: exploited for their personal gain, that person's identity gets directly
25:36
Speaker 1: tied to that individual, and then when they are convinced
25:40
Speaker 1: that what they are doing is righteous, they have no
25:43
Speaker 1: guilt about that act, no matter how atrocious it is.
25:47
Speaker 1: And so if you don't see those behavioral anomalies, which
25:54
Speaker 1: are self evident and obvious and present and recognizable, if
25:59
Speaker 1: you are or are a family, a friend, a citizen, whoever,
26:04
Speaker 1: and you do not reach out to help those who
26:07
Speaker 1: are obviously hurting, then you are just as guilty as
26:10
Speaker 1: shirking your responsibility. I don't know how you got to
26:13
Speaker 1: that from Lauri Valley. I was with you up until
26:17
Speaker 1: the point where you said, if you don't reach out
26:19
Speaker 1: and help help for what Mary, the children no help
26:22
Speaker 1: with with what you see with the she was going
26:26
Speaker 1: out and openly telling people that she thought her children
26:29
Speaker 1: were zombies. Right if your neighbor had two kids and
26:33
Speaker 1: your friends and she came over to your house and said,
26:36
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure my child is satan spawn, would you
26:39
Speaker 1: not reach out for help for that child? I absolutely would, exactly,
26:44
Speaker 1: you absolutely would. But her husband tried to Nancy, remember
26:47
Speaker 1: he tried to, and what happened, shot and killed him.
26:52
Speaker 1: But he's on video with the police saying I'm very
26:55
Speaker 1: worried from my life for my children's life because she's
26:58
Speaker 1: saying this, and then the brother shot and killed him.
27:02
Speaker 1: So he did try, he did try. He did. He
27:06
Speaker 1: was alex or Alex I think, along with Lorie, with
27:11
Speaker 1: Laurie being the mastermind behind it, lured lured Charles that
27:17
Speaker 1: home and he eradicated him. That's that's precisely what happened.
27:22
Speaker 1: And Nate, now we're talking about this earlier Laurie, She's
27:26
Speaker 1: got to be one of the luckiest people in the world,
27:28
Speaker 1: in the world because Alex falls over graveyard dead from
27:32
Speaker 1: multiple pulmonary mbali, which you know, still in my mind,
27:36
Speaker 1: there is no specific answer as to why this actually occurs.
27:40
Speaker 1: So you've got the guy that's the trigger puller in
27:43
Speaker 1: this that just he's gone. So it's the only living
27:50
Speaker 1: witness Charles Valles martyr and yeah, and I'm you know,
27:54
Speaker 1: for me, I'm thinking the only one. The husband comes
27:58
Speaker 1: over and gets into a confrontation and called mom's brother.
28:04
Speaker 1: Alex shoots him dead in front of JJ and Tylei.
28:08
Speaker 1: So JJ's dead, Tyley's dead. Now Alex, the trigger person
28:13
Speaker 1: is dead. Yeah, the only person still standing from that
28:16
Speaker 1: is Laurie in ballet. One more thing about this, and
28:20
Speaker 1: this goes to forgive me, but the condition of the
28:24
Speaker 1: children's bodies and they are very different, very very different,
28:28
Speaker 1: and how they were treated, and you really need to
28:30
Speaker 1: keep this in mind. JJ when he when he was buried,
28:35
Speaker 1: he was buried separate from from Tylei, and he was cocooned,
28:39
Speaker 1: not saying it was a loving event, but he was
28:42
Speaker 1: placed in a specific event adjacent to this dried out
28:45
Speaker 1: pond bed or whatever it was NATed. Yeah, white, he
28:51
Speaker 1: had on his red pj's. He was rap was inductate
28:55
Speaker 1: like a mummy and then placed as opposed to Tyle,
29:00
Speaker 1: and she was I don't really know how to say
29:04
Speaker 1: it other than the fact that her body was desecrated
29:10
Speaker 1: in a multiplicity of ways that we're not going to
29:13
Speaker 1: go into completely, but there, well, there's dismemberment involved, there's
29:19
Speaker 1: burning involved. And I still think if you take a
29:22
Speaker 1: look at those overhead of the drone images that they
29:26
Speaker 1: had from the scene, I saw this from the beginning
29:28
Speaker 1: and when I saw the fire pit, I was on
29:31
Speaker 1: air when that's occurred. I saw the fire pit there
29:33
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, the FBI guys, they're moving logs around there.
29:37
Speaker 1: There's something that's going on there. Initially, this is before
29:39
Speaker 1: it was actually reported. I think that part of this
29:43
Speaker 1: dismemberment event, I think probably took place in the large
29:46
Speaker 1: barn that was immediately adjacent, because you know, you can
29:50
Speaker 1: go down this road and eate if I'm correct, there's
29:52
Speaker 1: this road that's immediately adjacent, and you're not going to
29:55
Speaker 1: do this in an open area. And I think that
29:58
Speaker 1: part of this dismemberment of to pass in the back
30:01
Speaker 1: just led me to another thought. Y'all jump in, please
30:04
Speaker 1: don't wait a little, but you know what I was
30:07
Speaker 1: thinking about about motive to kill Tammy Dabel. Not only
30:11
Speaker 1: did Dabell want to marry Value, but I think Tammy
30:16
Speaker 1: Daviell was like, wait a minute, this girl you've been
30:19
Speaker 1: flirting with, now both of her children are missing and
30:24
Speaker 1: there's a two disturbed areas of dirt in our backyard.
30:29
Speaker 1: I think she figured it out and she had to
30:32
Speaker 1: die one more thing. And to my point earlier, Tyley
30:35
Speaker 1: her body there was there's a lot to be read
30:38
Speaker 1: into how her body was treated. There's a lot of
30:41
Speaker 1: anger involved in this as opposed to JJ's body. I think,
30:45
Speaker 1: you know. And when the tale is finally told, I
30:48
Speaker 1: think that we'll learn more. That's just my opinion, and
30:50
Speaker 1: everybody's going, well, I agree with his opinion, and I'll
30:53
Speaker 1: tell you a little more. And again, when you've got
30:56
Speaker 1: two children that had been murdered completely different ways, and
31:02
Speaker 1: then the way they're hidden, not buried, they were hidden,
31:07
Speaker 1: which again tells you she knew what she was trying
31:09
Speaker 1: to get away with. Tyley took a lot more time,
31:16
Speaker 1: and that level of anger was maintained throughout harming her skull,
31:24
Speaker 1: dismembering her, putting her in that hole, which incidentally was
31:28
Speaker 1: in the pet cemetery, then covering her, burning her. To
31:34
Speaker 1: burn a body takes a lot of time, y'all. You
31:38
Speaker 1: got to get up to about twelve hundred degrees and
31:40
Speaker 1: you got to spend hours. This was not quick. Do
31:46
Speaker 1: you understand what happened to her was so different than
31:50
Speaker 1: what happened to JJ. That goes to motive in my opinion.
31:55
Speaker 1: So it sounds to me from what I've read in
31:58
Speaker 1: these reports that the husband viewed the son's autism as
32:04
Speaker 1: this the only way we can save his soul is
32:07
Speaker 1: to end his life. The reports also indicated that the
32:11
Speaker 1: daughter was highly protective of her younger brother. If they
32:16
Speaker 1: were planning to do this, and if the daughter, who's sixteen,
32:20
Speaker 1: hurt them and was going to rat them out, it
32:24
Speaker 1: would make sense for them to take her out of
32:27
Speaker 1: the equation two. She fought back so that they could
32:30
Speaker 1: then have the time to make the son's death ceremonious.
32:37
Speaker 1: That is scary and it has the ring of truth
32:40
Speaker 1: to it. Okay, night Jump in well and in all
32:45
Speaker 1: of this. We know that just t weeks before Tammy died,
32:48
Speaker 1: the life insurance policy was raised quite a bit. Chad
32:52
Speaker 1: signed it and Tammy signed it. But we also know
32:55
Speaker 1: that Laurie and Chad have both been indicted for crimes
32:59
Speaker 1: related to money and theft. And she was using tilely
33:02
Speaker 1: social security money that she was getting because her father
33:06
Speaker 1: died and Laurie was a single mother legally at one
33:11
Speaker 1: point several points, and so she was getting the money
33:14
Speaker 1: from there. So somebody mentioned earlier was money a factor
33:17
Speaker 1: in this? I think when it all comes out, it'll
33:20
Speaker 1: be money in sex. I don't know how Oh well wait, wait,
33:25
Speaker 1: let's can we talk about the sex part because I
33:29
Speaker 1: love this part. I learned this from a friend of
33:35
Speaker 1: Chad day Bales and Laurie Valo. He had a pickup line, David,
33:43
Speaker 1: don't get any ideas the pickup line, and it totals
33:47
Speaker 1: seriously seriousness. They thought that they had been biblical figures
33:54
Speaker 1: in the past and kept getting reincarnated, and he would
33:59
Speaker 1: tell him he was married to them in a past life.
34:04
Speaker 1: So obviously they've already had six so why not? No,
34:08
Speaker 1: is that's not true? That is that is true? And
34:10
Speaker 1: you sure he'll say it much better than I do.
34:12
Speaker 1: You take someone who's narcissistic like Lorie, and we had
34:18
Speaker 1: six in a previous life when I was Moses and
34:20
Speaker 1: you were who Sarah your mother of Mary. So you
34:25
Speaker 1: have you have a narcissist like Laurie, and you have
34:27
Speaker 1: Chad day Bell who comes up and says, you are
34:30
Speaker 1: a goddess, You're beautiful, we were married in a past life.
34:34
Speaker 1: You've been chosen to lead thee hundred forty four thousand back.
34:37
Speaker 1: You feed that, as you mentioned, and you prey on
34:40
Speaker 1: that vulnerability or whatever the mental condition. Can you end
34:44
Speaker 1: up at the motel. That's how that works. It's a
34:48
Speaker 1: fire and gas and fire, you know, gasoline in a
34:53
Speaker 1: match right there. So yeah, money did play into it.
34:57
Speaker 1: And you mentioned the indictment to Nancy. See. The thing
35:00
Speaker 1: I find fascinating is the very first point that the
35:03
Speaker 1: prosecutor put in that indictment is they use their religious
35:06
Speaker 1: beliefs to justify homicide. So if there's any sort of
35:10
Speaker 1: defense around their religious angle, which there probably will be,
35:14
Speaker 1: I think they're ready to the prosecutors, ready to take
35:18
Speaker 1: that challenge on take that argument on Nancy. Can I
35:22
Speaker 1: add I think the sex part comes in somewhere else.
35:24
Speaker 1: I think jealousy. I think there's something to do with
35:27
Speaker 1: that entail and the rage and the dismemberment. And I
35:30
Speaker 1: hope I'm wrong. I pray I'm wrong, But as a
35:32
Speaker 1: judge I see it all the time. I think there's
35:35
Speaker 1: an element of inappropriate or sexual and jealousy and rage.
35:41
Speaker 1: It had to do with Thylie. I pray I'm wrong.
35:44
Speaker 1: You know, I think part of it is Taylee is
35:46
Speaker 1: sixteen almost seventeen, right, so she is growing up and
35:50
Speaker 1: starting to say things like no, or I won't do that,
35:54
Speaker 1: or fighting back with mom. And they hated the fact
35:59
Speaker 1: that j was hyperactive. Remember at the end, she said,
36:04
Speaker 1: JJ's going crazy. He just was crawling all over the
36:07
Speaker 1: cabinets and knocked over a picture of Christ and that
36:12
Speaker 1: infuriated her. So I think as you were talking about
36:16
Speaker 1: Spencer was talking about his autism, his learning problems feeding
36:21
Speaker 1: into it. She was now facing real issues in parenting
36:26
Speaker 1: and didn't want to be bothered. I really believe that. Okay,
36:31
Speaker 1: I can't believe, you know. You know what I want.
36:33
Speaker 1: Here's what I want the media to start calling her
36:36
Speaker 1: and let's again, let's be real here, she's now attributed
36:41
Speaker 1: to what six deaths? What do we call someone who's
36:45
Speaker 1: now accused of killing six people a serial killer? We
36:48
Speaker 1: call him a serial killer? Right? Has she been called that? No? Well,
36:52
Speaker 1: let's start today calling her for what she truly is.
36:56
Speaker 1: She is a serial killer of story right, Okay, Cheryl,
37:06
Speaker 1: I see you trying to jump in. I am all
37:08
Speaker 1: about that. It needs to happen. But before we go
37:11
Speaker 1: any further, I just want to say I loved the hashtag,
37:14
Speaker 1: but I'm going to start tonight. Nancy Gray said, oh,
37:17
Speaker 1: the six part. I love this part. And we were
37:23
Speaker 1: married in a previous life. So let's go to the
37:25
Speaker 1: motels six ound love that I was most Cheryl's neffe
37:30
Speaker 1: Terry and who else we got down here crime stories
37:47
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. So how much longer shall we get
37:52
Speaker 1: a decision on her mental state? There's a competency hearing
37:56
Speaker 1: week after next where the judge will I produce. The
38:00
Speaker 1: judge is going to say, all right, let's give it
38:02
Speaker 1: ninety days. Let's pause everything because everything is on pause
38:05
Speaker 1: now we'll see what the mental state hospital says, and
38:11
Speaker 1: he could then say, okay, she's competent, and then everything
38:13
Speaker 1: picks up and moves forward, or he could They could
38:16
Speaker 1: say she needs more time. Chad's proceedings move forward. He's
38:20
Speaker 1: in court on Tuesday where he will plead guilty or
38:23
Speaker 1: not guilty to the charges. I think I know which
38:25
Speaker 1: one is going to pick. Yes, they're both in jail. Yeah, yeah,
38:29
Speaker 1: they're both in jail. Anybody got questions because these are
38:32
Speaker 1: the experts. Yes, what does the penill think that everything
38:36
Speaker 1: will be turned back on and Blaine will be placed
38:38
Speaker 1: solely on him. I definitely think that's going to be
38:42
Speaker 1: the defense because Alex is in the middle of everything. Oh,
38:46
Speaker 1: which reminds me. Shortly before Lorie Vatte, shortly before Tammy
38:50
Speaker 1: Dayville died, she put it on her Facebook that someone
38:54
Speaker 1: took a shot with her with the paintball gun. It
38:57
Speaker 1: was Alex Cox with a real good one and he missed.
39:02
Speaker 1: He even googled how do I shoot a gun out
39:05
Speaker 1: of a something Eagogle's specific ammunition. They know that he
39:09
Speaker 1: visited a sportsman's warehouse and that he had been target
39:12
Speaker 1: practicing with a gun in the weeks leading up to this,
39:15
Speaker 1: so they likely will blame it on Alex. But those
39:19
Speaker 1: kids were buried in Chad day Belle's backyard. Yeah, they're
39:23
Speaker 1: the one. More chilling part of this too made Please
39:25
Speaker 1: correct me on The last person JJ was seen alive
39:30
Speaker 1: with or passed out unconscious with was Alex and he
39:35
Speaker 1: had JJ. But wait a minute. Also in the room
39:38
Speaker 1: there was the friend Alex Cox with JJ and Coult
39:44
Speaker 1: Mom saw Alex Cox leave with JJ on his shoulder
39:49
Speaker 1: and crawling, and he was found in the same repajamas
39:52
Speaker 1: he was wearing that. But wait a minute, here's another
39:55
Speaker 1: thing that I find incredible. If my husband call me
39:58
Speaker 1: on the phone and went, the cops are here and
40:02
Speaker 1: they're in the backyard, I say, why are the cops
40:05
Speaker 1: at the house? Why are they in the backyard? Remember
40:09
Speaker 1: on that jail phone call, he calls her and says,
40:13
Speaker 1: the cops are here. She goes, did they find anything?
40:16
Speaker 1: And I would I say, did they find anything? Yeah?
40:21
Speaker 1: I go, why are the cops in the backyard? Cha,
40:24
Speaker 1: Chad debo. When the police arrived, they said you can
40:27
Speaker 1: stay here at the house, but you will need to
40:30
Speaker 1: be with you at all times an officer. And so
40:32
Speaker 1: he went outside went in his car. They said that
40:35
Speaker 1: as he was making phone calls, he was like this,
40:39
Speaker 1: looking over his shoulder, and the minute they found JJ,
40:43
Speaker 1: he took off in his car and they radioed to
40:46
Speaker 1: each other. The officers Chad Daybel just left. They said
40:49
Speaker 1: go get him, and the detective who has been on
40:52
Speaker 1: this since day one, said I'm going to get him.
40:55
Speaker 1: Went down there, put the handcuffs on him, so he
41:01
Speaker 1: knew what they had found. I mean, I think there's
41:03
Speaker 1: going to be a lot of circumstantial evidence. Even though
41:07
Speaker 1: Tammy day Bell was you know, what do you say,
41:15
Speaker 1: Tammy day Bell? Serial killer? No? I do like serial
41:21
Speaker 1: killer No, but they do to your body and bomb
41:24
Speaker 1: she was in bomb even without that toxicology. I think
41:28
Speaker 1: that they're going to have so much of those two
41:30
Speaker 1: yacking back and forth. I got a question. I don't.
41:36
Speaker 1: I don't because I don't think she ever thought she
41:38
Speaker 1: was going to get caught. I really do think that
41:41
Speaker 1: she was using that and maybe, like if you have
41:45
Speaker 1: asked O. J. Simpson did he do He'll say no, Okay,
41:48
Speaker 1: he really thinks that at this point. But I think
41:52
Speaker 1: that she knew what she was doing. You know, It's
41:55
Speaker 1: very interesting because when what I see a lot in
42:00
Speaker 1: my practice is can you can follow? I mean literally
42:04
Speaker 1: people can that are very sick, will come in and
42:06
Speaker 1: say about the same thing, and it always at the
42:09
Speaker 1: end of what they're telling me ends up something about God.
42:13
Speaker 1: God always comes into that picture at the end of it.
42:16
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think they're trying to protect themselves
42:18
Speaker 1: or something, or make it seem like everything they were
42:20
Speaker 1: saying was okay, some kind of justification jumping in. One
42:25
Speaker 1: of those ideas came from Chad day Bell. He called
42:29
Speaker 1: her before Charles her husband was shot and killed, and said,
42:33
Speaker 1: Charles has been possessed by a spirit named ned Schneider,
42:37
Speaker 1: and she had a problem with that. According to friend,
42:40
Speaker 1: a guy named ned Schneider that was his No one
42:45
Speaker 1: knows where the name came from. And Viola is the
42:49
Speaker 1: spirit that possessed Tammy. Nobody possessed Tammy. Stop saying indictment
42:56
Speaker 1: according to the anxiety real and then up. So Chad
43:00
Speaker 1: planted the according to the investigators, planted these ideas in
43:04
Speaker 1: her head, and they said that a big earthquake was
43:09
Speaker 1: going to happen, the world was going to end, and
43:11
Speaker 1: no one would be focused ye a lie last year
43:14
Speaker 1: last year, no one would be focused on them, and
43:16
Speaker 1: they're missing kids. Everyone would be focused on this calamity
43:20
Speaker 1: that was happening, and they would go and build their
43:25
Speaker 1: lives and prepare for Christ to return. Nancy, I gotta
43:29
Speaker 1: jump in. I don't know how many of y'all know
43:32
Speaker 1: my background, but when I was assigned to the Major
43:35
Speaker 1: Case Division, I was assigned a prosecutor that was just
43:38
Speaker 1: a spit fire named Nancy Grace, and so I have
43:42
Speaker 1: worked with her a long time. When we were in
43:44
Speaker 1: our twenties, we had a good time in Atlantic Goal.
43:47
Speaker 1: But my question, and this is something Nancy and I
43:50
Speaker 1: guarantee you would have brought out in court. If she
43:54
Speaker 1: believed that zombies were going to kill her children, when
43:58
Speaker 1: her children were found dead, why didn't she call nine
44:01
Speaker 1: one one and say the zombies finally killed him? I mean,
44:07
Speaker 1: I just wonder. I wonder what JJ and Tyie went
44:12
Speaker 1: through at their death. Did they know their own mother
44:18
Speaker 1: orchestrated their murders? I just and Tyli knew what was
44:22
Speaker 1: going to happen. I do I think Tylie knew it.
44:26
Speaker 1: I think she had been vocal, and I think she
44:28
Speaker 1: was trying to protect her brother, and that's the reason
44:31
Speaker 1: she disappeared. First. I absolutely believe it, and again she
44:36
Speaker 1: will tell you, I don't know what happened to the children. Well,
44:39
Speaker 1: why the hell don't you know it? Now? You tried
44:41
Speaker 1: to set up and tell everybody it was gonna be
44:42
Speaker 1: a zombie, but you ain't talking about zombies now. And
44:46
Speaker 1: I think a good question is are they gonna I'd
44:48
Speaker 1: love to know a neat things. Are they gonna turn
44:49
Speaker 1: on each other? You know? Remember Chad day Bell's going
44:52
Speaker 1: to trial. She's allegedly incomfident at the moment. Are they
44:55
Speaker 1: ever going? That's why she wanted to marry him. He
44:58
Speaker 1: can't testify against her. Oh wait a minute, isn't there
45:02
Speaker 1: an exception that comes to children? I believe, I believe
45:05
Speaker 1: they can. And I that's the question of will Lorie
45:08
Speaker 1: turn on Chad? Will Chad turn on her? Well, maybe
45:11
Speaker 1: they'll both turn on each other. Will they go all
45:14
Speaker 1: the way to the death chair and think they're dying
45:17
Speaker 1: as martyrs? Did you want to answer fancy? Well, Cheryl
45:23
Speaker 1: McCollum just keeps just just just the originator of the idea.
45:29
Speaker 1: When they when they indoctrinate those those who are under them.
45:33
Speaker 1: There's a time like I'm thinking, like to the Keith
45:35
Speaker 1: Ranieri case, all of those people eventually turned against him
45:39
Speaker 1: in the end, once they got to look out and see,
45:43
Speaker 1: you know, once they he's talking about the sex cult,
45:48
Speaker 1: what are they brand and women? When you're still under
45:51
Speaker 1: the indoctrination of that cult mindset, it's very easy to
45:55
Speaker 1: not break free. But as soon as you are separated
45:57
Speaker 1: from that influence through time and space, and your primary
46:02
Speaker 1: influencers are no longer that person, you start you well,
46:05
Speaker 1: I really think this religious indoctrination should be treated as
46:09
Speaker 1: voluntary use of drugs and alcohol, which are not a
46:13
Speaker 1: defense at trial. Oh I got drunk and I killed
46:17
Speaker 1: so and so. Well, I'm not guilty because I think
46:20
Speaker 1: this your decision. One thousand percent agree with you. But
46:26
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. So at this point she
46:29
Speaker 1: should the takeaway ways. She's going to turn on him. Ah, yes, sorry,
46:34
Speaker 1: let's just get to the chase. Yeah. Yeah, she's going
46:36
Speaker 1: to turn on as we like to say, just break
46:39
Speaker 1: it down. At this point, I can only think in
46:41
Speaker 1: slam bye. I needed an editor. Yes, question, Oh my
46:47
Speaker 1: question was what was the cause of death for Tyli
46:50
Speaker 1: and JJ. I just couldn't remember that so badly damaged.
46:54
Speaker 1: They don't know, you know, I'm a little surprised. We
47:01
Speaker 1: don't have a cod on JJ though, because his body
47:04
Speaker 1: was still into act. Yeah, they hadn't released it. They
47:08
Speaker 1: just sorry, there's five manners of death. They ruled it
47:14
Speaker 1: as homicides. That's why they're able to there's a cod
47:17
Speaker 1: cause on specific of death, then there's a manner of death. Yeah,
47:22
Speaker 1: and so that's you know, that's that's still to be determined. Again,
47:27
Speaker 1: we're waiting with bated breath for Tammy. I don't they
47:29
Speaker 1: will ever know how Tyley was killed. I think that
47:33
Speaker 1: would be very difficult if her body is in the
47:35
Speaker 1: condition that and I the one other thing that I'd
47:38
Speaker 1: like to know about her is how much anti mortem,
47:41
Speaker 1: which means before death the trauma did she sustain and
47:47
Speaker 1: was there any kind of torture involved in her death.
47:51
Speaker 1: That's something that I would be very keen to find out.
47:54
Speaker 1: So my question is about autopsies and why they're just
48:01
Speaker 1: not automatically performed, because you hear about all these bodies
48:06
Speaker 1: being exhumed and all these things being overlooked, and all
48:10
Speaker 1: this money is spent on all of this, But why
48:13
Speaker 1: don't they just autopsy everybody that dies. Every state is different.
48:19
Speaker 1: Idaho is a corner state that is an elected, an
48:22
Speaker 1: elected position, the corner in that particular jurisdiction, in that
48:27
Speaker 1: little county where Tammy Dayville died elected, and everybody says
48:33
Speaker 1: the husband said he didn't want an autopsy. Her authority,
48:37
Speaker 1: by law, can trump anything that the family says, or
48:41
Speaker 1: herd the corner of her she can trump anything the
48:45
Speaker 1: family says. At that point, she's to certify of death.
48:48
Speaker 1: Tammy did not have a treating physician. The corner has
48:52
Speaker 1: to sign the death certificate. Now I don't, And again,
48:56
Speaker 1: I don't know how in the hell a corner feels
49:00
Speaker 1: comfortable enough to release the body of a forty nine
49:03
Speaker 1: year old healthy woman and say it's a natural death
49:09
Speaker 1: and doesn't do anything else about it. And that brings
49:13
Speaker 1: me to a bigger question. What kind of connection does
49:20
Speaker 1: Chad having that community, if any, to the corner. And
49:24
Speaker 1: a coroner does not have to be a doctor. A
49:26
Speaker 1: coroner can be the bus driver. If you get elected,
49:29
Speaker 1: you're the coroner. Question. Um, yes, I actually don't remember
49:34
Speaker 1: the timeline very well, but I was curious when she
49:36
Speaker 1: put her her kids clothes into storage, which, by the way,
49:41
Speaker 1: I find very weird because if they're dead, and if
49:44
Speaker 1: the zombies took them, you don't either you know they're
49:48
Speaker 1: not coming back, so why not sell them? Or if
49:51
Speaker 1: she knows that they're missing, you don't know if they're
49:54
Speaker 1: going to be brought home like within a day or two.
49:58
Speaker 1: Why would you make all of that time time to
50:00
Speaker 1: go to storage and do that? And was that a
50:04
Speaker 1: reason that they knew that she kind of did something.
50:07
Speaker 1: She put it into storage and then they took off
50:11
Speaker 1: for Hawaii, and then the bill never got paid. And
50:14
Speaker 1: then the owner of the storage facility saw our video
50:18
Speaker 1: of me chasing her down and called me the next
50:21
Speaker 1: day and said, I have something you might want to see.
50:24
Speaker 1: This woman has not paid her bill. You're toldally gonna
50:27
Speaker 1: be a witness. I've tried to reach her. Well, they
50:29
Speaker 1: did subpoena me, but we got that taken care of um.
50:32
Speaker 1: And so we went over and he showed everything in there,
50:36
Speaker 1: and then it was all collected as evidence. So I
50:39
Speaker 1: think that I think it was probably put there as
50:41
Speaker 1: a way to abandon it. What other kind of things
50:43
Speaker 1: were in storage? There's jj scooter that he loved that
50:47
Speaker 1: he rode everywhere. His scooter that he just adored. There
50:51
Speaker 1: was the baby books, all their baby photos. There was toys, bikes,
51:00
Speaker 1: everything that it appears related to these children that they
51:02
Speaker 1: had brought with them to Idaho because they had just
51:04
Speaker 1: moved from Arizona, seemed to be in that unit. Because
51:08
Speaker 1: the townhouse was empty, there was nothing in there when
51:12
Speaker 1: the police got there. Beds and that was it. Question, yes,
51:17
Speaker 1: question if the defense are likely if they decide to
51:22
Speaker 1: pin everything on Alex now that he's dead and the
51:25
Speaker 1: kids were actually buried in Chad's backyard, how much of
51:29
Speaker 1: this is actually going to stick on cult mom? Is
51:33
Speaker 1: it mostly circumstantial? And then my second question is what
51:36
Speaker 1: other members of this cult are there. I haven't heard
51:39
Speaker 1: anything else about the cult itself. Very small group that
51:44
Speaker 1: we know of chat but Chad has written Chad day
51:47
Speaker 1: Bell has written twenty five books. They're not that good.
51:51
Speaker 1: But and he would go out, it seems, and try
51:55
Speaker 1: to recruit people in a way see oh, you want
51:58
Speaker 1: to talk about the end Times. There was a group
52:00
Speaker 1: of about eight or nine, but probably more than were
52:03
Speaker 1: they mostly women? Mostly women? Yes, that he had been
52:07
Speaker 1: married for except Alex. My question is, with the claim
52:11
Speaker 1: now of incompetency versus insanity, is that still considered a
52:17
Speaker 1: psychological condition. Is she being held in jail still based
52:21
Speaker 1: upon that, or is she in a mental institution. She's
52:24
Speaker 1: been in jail in isolation since day one. There is
52:27
Speaker 1: no insanity defense in Idaho, so she can't plead insane
52:30
Speaker 1: and the judge will decide the competency hearing if she
52:34
Speaker 1: should be treated in jail with medication or whether they
52:36
Speaker 1: should move her to the state hospital. And the prosecution
52:40
Speaker 1: is opposing the competency evaluation results, by the way, no surprise,
52:44
Speaker 1: but they're saying we don't agree she's competent, which is
52:47
Speaker 1: one reason there's a hearing, and they could ask for
52:49
Speaker 1: another independent evaluate, another evaluation to come in and decide
52:54
Speaker 1: the stud Yet I think the only reason they haven't
52:57
Speaker 1: is because I think she's going to get rehabbed, whether
53:00
Speaker 1: ninety days, and get ready for trial. I think that's
53:04
Speaker 1: what's going to happen. I think you're right, Nancy. In fact,
53:06
Speaker 1: all the all the prosecutors I've taught to said this
53:08
Speaker 1: will be a blift and that you know, a few
53:11
Speaker 1: months from now, things will be back on track. Question. Yes,
53:15
Speaker 1: I just recently listened to a podcast and I'm not
53:18
Speaker 1: even sure the names that reminded me a lot of
53:20
Speaker 1: this about a mother that had taken two children. She
53:23
Speaker 1: was mental suffering from mental illness, was not supposed to
53:28
Speaker 1: be left alone with the children, and said Elizabeth, Elizabeth,
53:31
Speaker 1: what's your last name? Jackie Elizabeth, isn't Johnson and Jackson?
53:37
Speaker 1: She had the two children last thing at Chick fil a.
53:39
Speaker 1: They've never been said that she had taken them to
53:42
Speaker 1: daycare and they kept tracking down the daycares and could
53:45
Speaker 1: not find them. Catherine Hoggle. Yeah, so it's been a
53:50
Speaker 1: few years now and every time her husband speaks to her,
53:53
Speaker 1: she is still saying that her attorneys advised her to
53:57
Speaker 1: remain incompetent, so she's not questioned or tried. I don't
54:03
Speaker 1: think that's going to happen in this case. That was
54:05
Speaker 1: my question. It's that's it. It's Hoggle, that's her name.
54:08
Speaker 1: Thank you. She gets an evaluation every so many. That's
54:16
Speaker 1: all your reason. Yeah, as I was wondering what had
54:22
Speaker 1: happened with that case, it's just too high profile O case.
54:25
Speaker 1: You're not gonna You're not gonna get away with me. Hey, Nancy,
54:28
Speaker 1: really quickly, thank you again for you know, putting together
54:32
Speaker 1: and cultivating a catchphrase years ago. You came up with Todd. Mom.
54:36
Speaker 1: Now you've done cult mom. Congratulations, thank you, Oh my goodness.
54:44
Speaker 1: Let's take questions quick go. So my question is with
54:47
Speaker 1: this case other you know, the cases about the little
54:49
Speaker 1: boy that was found last week in Jasper was Samuel
54:51
Speaker 1: from Yes, Um, you know what keeps you from being
54:56
Speaker 1: so discouraged about just everybody dropping the ball? I mean,
54:59
Speaker 1: the little boy been missing for a month? How long
55:01
Speaker 1: have JJ and Tylly been missing? Anything was done about it?
55:05
Speaker 1: I mean it's just you just want to like scream,
55:07
Speaker 1: and it's frustrating that we're here now and we're talking
55:10
Speaker 1: about it and guess what they're did. No. I agree,
55:13
Speaker 1: you do about it. And the only thing you can
55:16
Speaker 1: do just keep trying. Because these cases are to a
55:20
Speaker 1: point we can't do anything about them, but we can
55:24
Speaker 1: do something about future cases. When you think children are
55:28
Speaker 1: being neglected or mistreated, that's the only answer. Whoa wa wait,
55:33
Speaker 1: oh wait, that's Kevin Mouth. Okay. We are live at
55:39
Speaker 1: Crime Con twenty twenty one in Austin. Everyone, thank you
55:43
Speaker 1: for being with us. Goodbye, Fred