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The Turquoise Butterfly The Story Before And Beyond From Dr Dale Atkins · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

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  Speaker 1: The reason why there's twenty different podcasts is simple. In radio,
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  Speaker 1: we're taught one thought per break. Why would I want
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  Speaker 1: to put football stars with ya? Authors or chefs? That's
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  Speaker 1: why you got to visit Arrow dot net a r
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  Speaker 1: r oe dot net. Twenty different podcasts. One of the
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  Speaker 1: favorites something our parents would say, all of those things
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  Speaker 1: that would make us go, what well it started somewhere?
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  Speaker 1: Something our parents would say only on arrow dot net
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  Speaker 1: aar r oe dot net. Enjoy your exploration. Hello, and
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: good morning everybody.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning, How are you? What a wonderful way to
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  Speaker 2: start today.
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  Speaker 1: Oh listen to your voice too, My god. See, I
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  Speaker 1: believe in the power of inflection. Upbeat. Let's have some fun.
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  Speaker 1: Winning is a choice?
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  Speaker 2: What full blesterful? Where are you? Where am I speaking
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  Speaker 2: to you?
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  Speaker 1: Charlotte, North Carolina? Where are you at today?
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  Speaker 2: And I'm in Connecticut.
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  Speaker 3: So if we hang out our windows and do you
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  Speaker 3: loop doors at south.
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  Speaker 1: We can see absolutely and that sunshine is ever so
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  Speaker 1: bright on the East coast.
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  Speaker 2: Yes it is. It is.
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  Speaker 3: First of all, before we begin, may I just say
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  Speaker 3: thank you for your interest in talking to me about
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  Speaker 3: my books and writing, and I really appreciate it.
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  Speaker 2: And I had the opportunity to.
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  Speaker 3: Tune into Unplugged, and I'm glad that I found you too.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you what. One of the things that
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  Speaker 1: I love is the story of the author and the
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  Speaker 1: person that has gone through the experiences in the everyday
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  Speaker 1: world in the way that the reader does not ever
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  Speaker 1: get that. It's like the inside sleeve of an album
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  Speaker 1: doesn't exist anymore, and it's like, we've got to do
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  Speaker 1: the same thing for the authors. Give people the opportunity
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  Speaker 1: to hear your voice, your inflection. Now go read the book.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I love that.
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  Speaker 3: I really love that, because I'm all about stories and
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  Speaker 3: I'm all about real people.
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  Speaker 2: And real experiences.
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  Speaker 3: And interestingly, these two books are an outgrowth of two
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  Speaker 3: experiences that I had personally and then how I wanted
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  Speaker 3: to transform them into more of a general experience that
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  Speaker 3: I thought people could relate to.
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  Speaker 2: And fortunately I think I was right.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it's listening to that gut feeling. It's intuition, it's
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  Speaker 1: the universe calling. It's something like a rock or a
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  Speaker 1: tree saying, by the way, you've got a bigger job
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  Speaker 1: than what you think you've got. Come in your way,
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  Speaker 1: and here it comes.
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  Speaker 3: I'm so glad you're someone who listens to rocks and trees.
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  Speaker 3: That's really wonderful because I do.
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  Speaker 2: True.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you know what you're going to think, I'm a
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  Speaker 1: freak here. My blue crown conyer, who was a parrot
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  Speaker 1: was with me for thirty four years. And what I
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  Speaker 1: did was I buried a writing instrument next to him,
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  Speaker 1: and so every thirty four days it goes back into
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  Speaker 1: the soil because I believe the trees and the rocks
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  Speaker 1: are going to speak through that writing instrument with him
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  Speaker 1: to my page.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think you're absolutely right, and you know, I'm
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  Speaker 3: this is a little off topic, but I think you're
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  Speaker 3: going to be interested a wonderful book called The Sounds
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  Speaker 3: of Life. Have you heard of it? No?
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  Speaker 1: But I am. Now.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, you want to look it up, and that's all
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  Speaker 3: I'm gonna say. And then when you finish it, you're
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  Speaker 3: gonna find my number and you're going to say, Thanksdale.
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  Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about the turquoise butterfly. And I'll tell
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  Speaker 1: you this is the kind of freak that I really am.
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  Speaker 1: I had to do the research on the turquoise, and
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  Speaker 1: just the other day I was wearing turquoise in honor
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  Speaker 1: of my sister and my mother who are no longer here.
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  Speaker 1: And the thing is is that it is a healing stone,
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  Speaker 1: and that it is a bridge between heaven and earth,
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  Speaker 1: and on top of that, it's about honesty and self acceptance.
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  Speaker 1: And then you go to your book the Turquoise Butterfly.
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  Speaker 1: Are we not on the same page here?
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  Speaker 2: That is beautiful.
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  Speaker 3: I have goosebumps, I really have goosebumps because there are
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  Speaker 3: some people with whom I can share the more deep
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  Speaker 3: connection with the experience, and there are some people who
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  Speaker 3: would like not to go there. And I just feel
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  Speaker 3: more comfortable when you just said what you said, and
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  Speaker 3: thank you, and I hope you that your sister and
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  Speaker 3: mother are with us today.
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  Speaker 1: Well, they're with us inside my heart. And I'm gonna
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  Speaker 1: take it beyond that and say that final scene of
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  Speaker 1: Star Wars where you see Yoda and Darth Vader and
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  Speaker 1: Obi Wan together, I have a completely different feeling today
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  Speaker 1: than I did the first time that I saw it
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  Speaker 1: back in the nineteen seventies.
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  Speaker 2: Oh well, and.
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  Speaker 3: Isn't that we're growing older and being open and wisdom
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  Speaker 3: and understanding that we don't know everything can give us.
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  Speaker 1: Well, thank you, you even say it inside your book.
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  Speaker 1: Every day moment counts and it's like, oh, we're on
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  Speaker 1: the same page on this one.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, Well, first of all, I said my first
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  Speaker 3: of all, and I even said my second of all.
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  Speaker 2: Now I'm going to.
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  Speaker 3: Say thank you for reading the book, because I have
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  Speaker 3: found my and interviews where people haven't read the book
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  Speaker 3: and it's kind of interesting.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you for reading the Turk Horse book.
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  Speaker 1: Well, the thing is is that you present it in
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  Speaker 1: a way that is approachable. And I just want readers
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  Speaker 1: and listeners to understand when you go into the bookstore
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  Speaker 1: or you go to Amazon, really pay attention to what
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  Speaker 1: the message is here. Don't go in there like it's
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  Speaker 1: a candy coated plastic bathroom mirror. Smile.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, I love that. I'll accept that.
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  Speaker 1: And in writing it, what did you receive? Because you're
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  Speaker 1: not just the giver, you're also the receiver when you've
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  Speaker 1: got that writing instrument in full motion.
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  Speaker 2: To tell you the truth, I received the story fully formed.
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  Speaker 3: I was writing a book about my dad, and my
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  Speaker 3: dad had had Alzheimer's and he had an amazing relationship
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  Speaker 3: with his dog. And I want you to write a
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  Speaker 3: children's book about Alzheimer's and what we learn from our
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  Speaker 3: dogs and what we learn from our animals as far
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  Speaker 3: as caregiving. And I was stuck. I've been working on
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  Speaker 3: it for years, and I just said, I don't know.
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  Speaker 3: I need a break. So I took a walk.
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  Speaker 2: And this was about three years after my mom had
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  Speaker 2: passed away. Hell yeah, And all.
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  Speaker 3: Of a sudden, I'm listening to this story in my
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  Speaker 3: head and I'm really engaged, and I'm walking. I was
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  Speaker 3: along the beach and which was her favorite place, in
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  Speaker 3: my favorite place, and I'm just listening to this story.
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  Speaker 3: And I came back. And I came back and I
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  Speaker 3: said to my husband. He said, did you get over
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  Speaker 3: the block? And I said no, but I have a
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  Speaker 3: different story and I have to write it down right away.
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  Speaker 3: And I wrote down the essence of the story, and
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  Speaker 3: then I wrote the book.
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  Speaker 2: And the book was four hundred pick.
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  Speaker 3: Four thousand words when I first wrote it, but it
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  Speaker 3: took a really long time. And then I narrowed it
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  Speaker 3: down and I spoke about it with one friend and
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  Speaker 3: she was so wonderfully open and responsive, and so we
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  Speaker 3: had a dialogu back and forth about this. And while
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  Speaker 3: this was happening, I was trying to work through a wonderful,
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  Speaker 3: wonderful relationship with my then seven year old granddaughter, and
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  Speaker 3: she and I had wonderful times together.
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  Speaker 2: In fact, we have a week of summer just us.
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  Speaker 2: We call it the Girls of Summer, and we go
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  Speaker 2: and we have adventures.
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  Speaker 3: And so this was actually happening in the days while
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  Speaker 3: I was working on the book, and I realized that
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  Speaker 3: I wanted to honor my mother and I wanted to
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  Speaker 3: pay homage to her, and she really was the inspiration.
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  Speaker 3: But the story actually is a combination of my engagement
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  Speaker 3: with my granddaughter and my mother's engagement with all of
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  Speaker 3: her grandchildren and great grandchildren and who she was, and
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  Speaker 3: the little girl in the book, Victoria is a combination
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  Speaker 3: of my granddaughter and any many many children that I
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  Speaker 3: worked with over the years, who were anxious, who were hesitant,
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  Speaker 3: who were bold but not bold enough to take risks
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  Speaker 3: that they really wanted to do, and they were so
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  Speaker 3: inhibited by going and taking a risk. And then here
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  Speaker 3: she was paired with this incredibly adventurous and alive and
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  Speaker 3: engaged grandmother who understood her and who coaxed her but
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  Speaker 3: didn't push her, who had patience. And I realized that
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  Speaker 3: it was turning into a bit of the book that
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  Speaker 3: I was trying to write about my father, because the
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  Speaker 3: qualities of the grandmother were the qualities that the dog had,
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  Speaker 3: and what we want from everybody in our lives, whether
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  Speaker 3: we were little children or older adults. And then over
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  Speaker 3: the years we see that the little girl not only
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  Speaker 3: becomes less hesitant, but becomes bolder and becomes more will
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  Speaker 3: to take chances. And it's not that she's not anxious
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  Speaker 3: about it. And that's where we talk about the butterflies.
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  Speaker 3: And when I work with kids, I always love to
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  Speaker 3: have them become aware of their bodies.
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  Speaker 2: You know what's happening. How does your belly feel? Do
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  Speaker 2: you have butterflies?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: Are they fluttering? Are they happy? Are they troumble? You know?
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  Speaker 2: Are they thumping?
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  Speaker 3: So that kids really can understand that their body is
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  Speaker 3: something to trust, yes, and that they can take a
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  Speaker 3: lead from it. So we have the little girl doing
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  Speaker 3: what a lot of kids have done in therapy with me,
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  Speaker 3: which is, you know, give themselves butterfly hugs. And here
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  Speaker 3: we have the grandmother giving her a butterfly hug. But
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  Speaker 3: then she can give herself a butterfly hug.
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  Speaker 1: Please do not move there's more with doctor Dale Atkins
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  Speaker 1: coming up next. The name of her book Bok the
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  Speaker 1: Turquoise Butterfly. We are back with doctor Dale Atkins. Animals
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  Speaker 1: speak on the butterfly. Lighten up and stop taking everything
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  Speaker 1: so seriously. Get ready for a big change, one where
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  Speaker 1: an old habit, way of thinking or lifestyle is going
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  Speaker 1: out in a new way is coming in and it's
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  Speaker 1: emerging quickly. It's time to make those changes.
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  Speaker 3: I love that it's this is a book about transformation,
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  Speaker 3: and this is a book about having to be in
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  Speaker 3: the moment because butterflies struggle, struggles, struggle to get through
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  Speaker 3: and become who they are, and they're generally not with
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  Speaker 3: us very long. But in their moments of beauty and
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  Speaker 3: in their moments of doing what they need to do,
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  Speaker 3: they are so happy. We are so happy, but we
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  Speaker 3: cannot overlook their transformation. So I wanted that to be
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  Speaker 3: the transformation analogy for the little girl as well as
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  Speaker 3: for the grandmother.
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  Speaker 2: Is there reay? And then I wanted, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, I was just gonna say, is there any possible
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  Speaker 1: way that I mean, because when you were talking about
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  Speaker 1: the Alzheimer's, we all right away go into a part
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  Speaker 1: of our lives in our heart where we all think
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  Speaker 1: negative and I don't know what I did wrong in life,
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  Speaker 1: but my mother. I didn't have a negative effect with
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  Speaker 1: my mother with Alzheimer's because so many great things were happening,
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  Speaker 1: and it's like, it's like I wish there would be
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  Speaker 1: something more. And I think that your book is going
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  Speaker 1: to serve that even though they may be struck down
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  Speaker 1: with Alzheimer's, there's still a positive. Find it right about it,
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  Speaker 1: give it to your future generation.
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  Speaker 2: That is exactly what my experience was with my dad.
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  Speaker 1: This is what I feel it coming.
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  Speaker 3: Well, thank you, you are right, and I do my self.
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  Speaker 3: Specialty will have not writing in my psychology world is
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  Speaker 3: Alzheimer's and working with families and working with physicians and
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: soon to be physicians residents, mostly to approach the family
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  Speaker 3: and to approach the person with hope. Now it's not
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  Speaker 3: a realistic it is not putting reality aside. It is
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: you know, what kinds of changes can you make to
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  Speaker 3: enhance your life as you are seeing some decline, But
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  Speaker 3: focus on what is and what remains.
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  Speaker 2: And when I.
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  Speaker 3: Work with couples and when I work with parents and children,
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  Speaker 3: one of the things that's very very important is to
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  Speaker 3: have them note what are the things that really went well?
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  Speaker 2: And what are the things you know? With my dad?
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  Speaker 3: If I may, I'll share with you that we used
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  Speaker 3: to sing a lot. But what happened that the impetus
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  Speaker 3: for me was I had gone to a graduation of
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: medical school for my nephew, and the brilliant Andrew Wild
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  Speaker 3: excuse me, excuse me, Andrew Wile was there, but it
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  Speaker 3: was Jonathan. It was Oliver Sacks. It was Oliver Sacks
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  Speaker 3: who was speaking. And I was mesmerized as I was
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  Speaker 3: mesmerized by him and his work and his work with
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  Speaker 3: the awakenings and just the gentleman and the man that
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  Speaker 3: he was. But he spoke at this graduation. And from
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  Speaker 3: the graduation, I went to visit my dad, who was
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  Speaker 3: living with my mom and always was living in my
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  Speaker 3: childhood home.
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  Speaker 2: And I went to see him, and at that.
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  Speaker 3: Point he was having some hallucinations and everybody would say, no, no, no, Daddy,
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  Speaker 3: there's nothing. It's okay, there's nothing, there's no one here.
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  Speaker 2: Don't worry.
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  Speaker 3: And after hearing all of your secks, I went home
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  Speaker 3: and I said, Dad, you're right. I see them and
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: they are coming to harm us, and I went into
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: the kitchen.
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  Speaker 2: I swear to God this is true. I went into
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: the kitchen.
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  Speaker 3: And I got a kitchen knife and I came out
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  Speaker 3: and I started stabbing the air and I said, Daddy,
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  Speaker 3: I'm getting them, I'm getting them. He calmed down and
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: he said, oh, thank you, my girl. And then a
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  Speaker 3: few seconds later they came back again. I stabbed them
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  Speaker 3: and stab them. Okay, that was the turning point for me.
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  Speaker 3: And what I wrote about, and I'm not even sure
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  Speaker 3: where it is now, was how I went down the
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: rabbit hole with my father and I entered his world
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  Speaker 3: rather than trying to make sure that he was in mine,
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: because he couldn't be in mind in those moments. But
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: when I went down his, I found access to my
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  Speaker 3: world much easier to access.
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  Speaker 2: And the same was true with songs. And now there's research.
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  Speaker 3: My dad's been gone for thirty something years and there
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  Speaker 3: was nothing. There was one book that was called the
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  Speaker 3: thirty six Hour Day. There was really nothing. So we
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: were kind of on our own, and that's actually why
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: it became a subspecialty. But one of the things that
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: we know now is the power of music, and so
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: we would sing, we would sing all of his favorite songs,
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  Speaker 3: and now one of the therapies is to make playlists
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: of people's favorite songs from when they were in their
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: late teens, early twenties, mid twenties. And then what you
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  Speaker 3: get is not only people singing along, people who are
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: who we think are to over and nonverbal in many cases,
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: but also the before and after, particularly after.
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  Speaker 2: Yep, there's like this effect.
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  Speaker 3: Of many people being able then to have an actual
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: conversation because the memory of the song triggers where they
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: were and who was there. So you have almost a
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: peek into a moment that then you can extend. And
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: these are the moments to go back to what you said.
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  Speaker 3: Those are the moments that we can treasure because when
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: you lose something, you really know how important what remains is.
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  Speaker 1: You are so spot on. You are so spot on.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: And the reason why I can get that close to
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: it and listeners need to understand that you and I
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: are at a different level right now in the way
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: that we're really deep. But I don't care because they
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: need to know. And that is is that I wrote
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: a book about John Lennon, and in my book, he
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: was not gone, He had not transitioned. He had Alzheimer's.
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  Speaker 1: And what happened is is that I wrote the story
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: around him having Alzheimer's and had Paul McCartney and everybody
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: around him had to go into his life, which is
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  Speaker 1: exactly what you just said, and you had to work
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: with him. And the thing about it is, though, is
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: that I got to speak with with Glenn Campbell's family, Yokohano,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Julian Lennon. I got to speak with all of these
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: people and it's like, you know, and you're so right,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: because it is an open door when you step into
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: their world, because they're going to give you the keys.
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  Speaker 1: Now what are you going to do with it? And
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: look at what you're doing with it. You are driving
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: that vehicle to help other people understand it.
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  Speaker 3: Well, thank you. I'm trying and I would like to
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  Speaker 3: read your book. The issue is we have to get
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: out of our own way.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, we have to.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: We have to be able to put judgment aside, to
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: put expectations aside, and just be in that moment. And
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: it's become such a hackneyed phrase, but it is so
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: essential to being able to connect with children, with adults,
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: with anyone who in some way isn't exactly where we
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: want them to be, or where we think we need
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: them to be, But when we look at it from
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: the opposite perspective, perhaps they are in a place where
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: we need to be so that we can learn what
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: we need to learn from being patient, from looking at
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: the sky and seeing all these images that we may
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: not normally see, but someone who's looking at it differently
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: can see, and then we play. One of the things
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: that I find is that when we allow ourselves to
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: do this, we walk through the sadness and we can
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: actually enter a space of joy. They're not mutually exclusive.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: You can have them at the same time.
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  Speaker 1: Wow, where can people go to find out more about you?
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Because twenty minutes with you is not enough? And I
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: guarantee if you and I ever met here in Carolina
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: or up there in Connecticut, I guarantee you it would
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: be the people would play hell trying to break us apart.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: Well, I would love to take a walk with you
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: and we could just explore in nature. Would be wonderful,
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: whether it's in Carolina or Connecticut.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: But in the meantime, I thank you for this time.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: I do have a website, and the website is www
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: dot doctor Dale Atkins dot com and the doctor part
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: is not spread spelled out. It's d R D A
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: L E A T K I n S dot com.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: And I post things on Instagram. I'm not a great
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: social media person, but I do do my best in
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: trying to post things on Instagram that I try to
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: help people see a more hopeful view and try to
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: treat people with kindness and particularly when it's difficult.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: And so that's that's kind of my goal.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: And I'm so grateful that we're talking about the turpoise butterfly,
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: because every time somebody reads it, I think that my
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: mom is very much happy. You know that her spirit
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: is alive, and she's still inspiring people to be connected
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: and to be patient and to have fun and to
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: enjoy nature and all of these things that if we
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: do them, we will really have a much more full life.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Well, your mother just had an old fashioned percolated cup
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: of coffee with my mom and they said, we're gonna
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: meet again. You can relate with that, can't you?
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: I really can. I really can't. Thank you.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today? And I look forward to
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: sharing more conversations with you in the many, many, many
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: more times We're gonna have together.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: That makes me very happy. Thank you very much, have
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: a wonderful day.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: You be brilliant today.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, thank you, thank you. Bye.