Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Cult Mom Lori Vallow on phone love chats while children's corpses dug up

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Cult Mom Lori Vallow on phone love chats while children's corpses dug up · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace now just released the frantic
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: phone call made between cult mom Laurie Valo and her
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: brand new fourth or fifth husband, Doomsday cult leader Chad
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  Speaker 1: day Bell. This as the FEDS and local authorities were
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: approaching his farm to start digging. FYI banner, if and
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: when you go to jail, I mean, everybody needs to
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  Speaker 1: do a little approbation. But if it when you go
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: to jail, just know this, your calls are recorded. We
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: can hear everything. At some point it all comes out,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: and boy, this is a whopper. This and the latest
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  Speaker 1: developments in the case of cult mom Laurie Valo. I'm
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: with us here. First of all, I want you to
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  Speaker 1: take a listen. We've obtained the actual recordings from the jail. Now.
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  Speaker 1: They're a little hard to hear, as you can understand,
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  Speaker 1: behind gail house walls, the recording quality. It's not like
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  Speaker 1: you're in a studio, there are people walking around, you're
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  Speaker 1: on a pay phone. Sometimes it's really hard to hear.
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  Speaker 1: But in this first sound I'm going to play for you,
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  Speaker 1: you're hearing this desperate phone call between Coltmum Laurie Valo
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  Speaker 1: and her new husband, Chad day Bell. He is alerting
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  Speaker 1: her quote, they are searching the house. Listen, are you okay?
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  Speaker 1: H yeah, m hm, so mycoans will be talking to
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  Speaker 1: the house, no property. Are they seeing again to searching?
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  Speaker 1: M yes, searching. So just stan okay. Knowing what I'm
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  Speaker 1: listening to helps me a lot to hear that and
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  Speaker 1: understand what they're saying. He alerts Laurie Valo, they're here.
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  Speaker 1: She says, are they searching the house? And at that
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  Speaker 1: point he's says, they're searching the property. Now when you
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  Speaker 1: hear the rest of this, it's really telling you. But
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  Speaker 1: first of all, let me introduce my all star panel
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: joining me to break it down and put it back
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  Speaker 1: together again. First of all, newcomer to our ranks, but
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  Speaker 1: not a stranger to the courtroom. Joseph Marone, Philadelphia criminal
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  Speaker 1: defense attorney. You can find him at Marone law dot com.
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  Speaker 1: That's Maron with an E doctor Angela Arnold, Rown Psychiatrists
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  Speaker 1: joining me from the Atlanta jurisdiction. Donald Schweitzer, first time guest,
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  Speaker 1: former LA detective. I love that part. Criminal defense attorney,
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  Speaker 1: former prosecutor, and you can find him at Schweitzer Law Partners,
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  Speaker 1: Jennifer Schenn, forensic pathologist, former San Diego Police Department crime
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  Speaker 1: Lab director, Dave Matcrime online dot Com investigative reporter joining us.
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  Speaker 1: First of all, let me go to you, Donald Schweitzer,
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  Speaker 1: former LA detective, former prosecute you are now criminal defense attorney.
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  Speaker 1: You know what, Donald, have you do? You go by
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  Speaker 1: Donald or Don don Don? Have you ever advised one
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  Speaker 1: of your clients, let's just say, a nasty divorce, to
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  Speaker 1: set up a wire or tape phone calls. I'm not
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  Speaker 1: asking who, but let me just rephrase that. Have you
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  Speaker 1: ever known of one of your clients that taped phone calls? Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: People do it all the time. Unfortunately, as you know, Nancy,
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  Speaker 1: there's crimes that are related to that, and so you know,
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  Speaker 1: we discourage people from doing that. We tell them flat
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  Speaker 1: out it's not going to come into evidence at least.
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  Speaker 1: Why let me ask this, Don, is in your jurisdiction?
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  Speaker 1: Is that one party consent? It is? Oh? I hate that,
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  Speaker 1: I absolutely hate that. I hate when it's two party consent.
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  Speaker 1: And what we mean by that is say I want
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  Speaker 1: to tape Jackie's phone calls, which you know, by the way,
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  Speaker 1: I am doing. I'm taping everybody, even taping myself. In
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  Speaker 1: many jurisdictions it requires two parts consent. I have to
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  Speaker 1: agree to be taped and she has to agree to
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  Speaker 1: be taped. And a lot of jurisdictions it's one party consent.
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  Speaker 1: In other words, I tape all my phone calls and
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  Speaker 1: I happen to get you on the line, and that's okay.
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  Speaker 1: But those aren't the rules behind bars. To Joseph Marone,
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  Speaker 1: Philadelphia criminal defense attorney, Joseph, you heard what Don Schweitzer
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  Speaker 1: just said. Do you remember top Mom Casey Anthony's case
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  Speaker 1: where she killed her daughter Kelly, and those angry Gael
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  Speaker 1: House conversations she would have with her parents where should
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  Speaker 1: be nutting up on them as if they were the problem.
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  Speaker 1: And all of that was accessible through the Florida Sunshine laws.
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  Speaker 1: They tape everything that you say on the phone, every
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  Speaker 1: video conference, you have, everything except when you meet with
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  Speaker 1: your lawyers or you meet with your chaplain or priest.
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  Speaker 1: None of that's taped and none of that can be accessed.
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  Speaker 1: But Joseph Marone and a lot of cases, there are
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  Speaker 1: recorders even within the jail cells or in the walls
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  Speaker 1: that people don't know about and that's okay because you
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  Speaker 1: don't have a right to privacy. Explain no, Listen, when
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: you're in custody of the law enforcement, you give up,
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  Speaker 1: you know, you give up your valuable rights and you
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  Speaker 1: have no right to privacy, meaning anything you say is
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  Speaker 1: going to be privy to the government and they're going
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  Speaker 1: to utilize that not only against you for any new crimes,
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  Speaker 1: but specifically against you for the case in chief. And
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of times defendants, you know, they're contacting family members, friends,
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  Speaker 1: and they start saying a lot of incriminating facts along
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  Speaker 1: the way that the prosecutor gathers up and sometimes a's
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  Speaker 1: in his case and obviously this is what's happened here,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: so you know, it just gets worse and worse. And
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: the thing about Todd mom Casey Anthony, she portrayed herself
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  Speaker 1: one way in court, you know, with the collar up
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  Speaker 1: to hear and the long hair and the blaw of
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  Speaker 1: the blaw and sitting there like a school library in
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  Speaker 1: a little sweater button up to hear. No n O.
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  Speaker 1: Because when you saw her going crazy, angry, screaming, seething
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  Speaker 1: at her parents who were there to help her. You
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  Speaker 1: see the other side of top Mom, Casey Anthony, And
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  Speaker 1: that's what we're seeing right here. For those of you
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  Speaker 1: just joining us, we're talking about caught Mom Laurie Valo
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  Speaker 1: and her brand new husband Chad day Bell blabbing on
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  Speaker 1: the phone about the search that was going down at
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  Speaker 1: his farmhouse. As you probably already know, you legal eagles
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  Speaker 1: the bodies of both two of Laurie Valo's children, JJ,
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  Speaker 1: seven years old Tilly, a teen girl, found there on
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  Speaker 1: that property. Doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrist, joining me out of
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  Speaker 1: the Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angie, this is something I mean,
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  Speaker 1: I'm just a JD. You're the MD. Why do people
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  Speaker 1: let there? And I find myself doing it? If I'm
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  Speaker 1: in court or I'm on TV, I have a you know,
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  Speaker 1: I'm more guarded. But if I'm even doing a radio
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  Speaker 1: interview on the phone, I mean, it all comes out.
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  Speaker 1: Why are people so less inhibited on the phone than
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  Speaker 1: they are in real life or in any other circumstance.
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  Speaker 1: What is that? Well, you know, when you're on the telephone, Nancy,
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  Speaker 1: people can't and on the radio, people can't actually see you,
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  Speaker 1: can they? And I have a feeling that first of all,
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  Speaker 1: this was such a disturbing phone call for her to
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  Speaker 1: receive in jail, that the content of the phone call
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  Speaker 1: was so disturbing and she and so she forgot because
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  Speaker 1: there wasn't she didn't see anybody looking at her. And
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  Speaker 1: so it's all about that personal contact and whether you
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  Speaker 1: can actually see somebody or over the phone. You feel
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  Speaker 1: like you're incognito, don't you. Yeah? You really do. You
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  Speaker 1: feel hidden? You really do. And every inhibition, all your
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  Speaker 1: guards seems to be letting down crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
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  Speaker 1: we have obtained recordings of cult mom Lorie Valo speaking
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  Speaker 1: to her brand new husband, Chad day Bell, a doomsday
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  Speaker 1: cult leader, on the phone. Now, there is no way
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  Speaker 1: in hub L Chad day Bell does not know that
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  Speaker 1: the bodies of these two children are on his property.
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  Speaker 1: And these phone calls are very revealing. Jackie, let's play
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  Speaker 1: part two of the phone calls. Yeah, players, M great,
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  Speaker 1: what do you want me to m m m m
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  Speaker 1: hm h m hmm. What can I do for you?
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  Speaker 1: M M pretty cold marl m M talk with him? Okay,
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  Speaker 1: she says what can I do for you? When he
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  Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and then says, I just want to
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  Speaker 1: talk with you. Okay, you know to you, Donald Schweitzer,
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  Speaker 1: former LA detective, former prosecutor, now defense attorney. I know
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  Speaker 1: that you have listened to a hundred taps, as have I.
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  Speaker 1: It's very hard. You get it, you get it side,
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  Speaker 1: And to get a tap on a person you have
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  Speaker 1: to go through a lot of legal hoops. You have
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  Speaker 1: to go to the judge, very intrusive to get a
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  Speaker 1: phone tap on somebody. But here you're in the jail,
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  Speaker 1: so you don't have to go through all that. But
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  Speaker 1: then when you hear it and I look at the
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  Speaker 1: transcu something like that's not right. I'd have to go
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  Speaker 1: through every phone call and retranscribe it myself, playing it back,
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  Speaker 1: playing it back, playing it back, to catch every possible word.
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  Speaker 1: It's very hard to do, Donald Schweitzer. It really is.
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  Speaker 1: With my staff in my office, we go through great
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  Speaker 1: pains trying to get some of the detail. You know,
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  Speaker 1: if you don't get it, then it could cause a
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  Speaker 1: lot of confusion with respect of what people are saying.
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  Speaker 1: I listened to this recording, Go Nancy, and even though
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  Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to hear it, first blush one
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  Speaker 1: thing that's real clear, and that is that mister day
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  Speaker 1: Bell seems to be very nervous. He seems to be
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  Speaker 1: worried that, you know, they're going to find something. And
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  Speaker 1: quite frankly, it looks like they're saying goodbye to each other,
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  Speaker 1: or he's saying goobody to Laurie, because you know, he's
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  Speaker 1: talking about it the bank's attorney and things of that nature.
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  Speaker 1: To me, he seems like he's packing. He knows that
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  Speaker 1: he's going to be headed for trouble real soon. And
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  Speaker 1: that's just clearly doesn't doesn't really matter how clear the
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  Speaker 1: words are. You could just tell by the tone and
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  Speaker 1: some of the things that they're saying that you know
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  Speaker 1: this is doomsday for both of them. Yeah, he's uh
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  Speaker 1: creek without a paddle because there's two dead bodies in
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  Speaker 1: his yard, buried back there with a pitt cemetery. To
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  Speaker 1: Joseph Marone, two things strike me. Number One, they never
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  Speaker 1: mentioned the children. It's all about them and the ramifications
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  Speaker 1: of the search on his farm. They both know the
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  Speaker 1: bodies of the children are going to be found, and
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  Speaker 1: Tyley was horribly dismembered and burned. Way don't you hear
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  Speaker 1: about It's just it's terrible. They never mentioned them. It's
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  Speaker 1: all about me, me, me, me, me me. Number one
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  Speaker 1: and number two. They sound like two love sick high
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  Speaker 1: school sweethearts. What can they do for you? Want to
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  Speaker 1: talk to you? Yeah, it's all about him feeling glum.
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  Speaker 1: He's about to go to jail. Forget about dismembering Tiley
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  Speaker 1: and murdering JJ. Does that not bug you, Joseph Moron?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, how do you stand dealing with murderers and
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  Speaker 1: molesters and all that every day. I mean, it's like
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  Speaker 1: their own They're in their own little world. They don't
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  Speaker 1: even get what they've done. How do you shake some
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: sense into your clients? Joseph listen. That's been the theme
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  Speaker 1: of this whole case from day one when they first
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: approached both the Lori and Chad. I mean they from
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  Speaker 1: day one day denied, you know, they're whereabouts. They lied,
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  Speaker 1: They were only concerned about themselves all the way through,
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  Speaker 1: and now in this circumstance, even through the phone conversation,
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  Speaker 1: they were more concerned about, you know, are they going
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  Speaker 1: to find something rather than the welfare of the children.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, she clearly, you know, lied to the police
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  Speaker 1: about her own children. And the other thing too, is
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  Speaker 1: when you look through the evidence, it doesn't phase her
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  Speaker 1: that her children are missing. I mean she's clearly caught
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  Speaker 1: up in some type of some type of brainwashing or
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  Speaker 1: some type of cult through him. I mean that's kind
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  Speaker 1: of been what the evidence connects. But the interesting thing
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  Speaker 1: in this case is, you know, circumstantially connecting the dots
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  Speaker 1: showing that you know obviously that they knew where the
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  Speaker 1: bodies were, they knew the children were missing. You just
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  Speaker 1: brought up a really good point because Joseph Marone, if
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  Speaker 1: my husband called me and said the cops are here,
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  Speaker 1: they're searching the house, I go, what why are they
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  Speaker 1: in the house? What's going on right? Or what did
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  Speaker 1: you do? You don't never even ask why are the
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: cops at the house? Never? They never do you remember
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: the show What's It Cops? Yeah, that was the name
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: of the show, And there'd be a guy sitting there
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  Speaker 1: in his easy cha are having a beer watching TV
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: and the cops come running through and he just keeps
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: watching TV. It's like, hey, guy, there's cops right in
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  Speaker 1: your house? Or does that bother you? And in this case,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: they never say I don't know why they're here? Why
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: are they? Because they know why the cops are there.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Take a listen now to more of the jailhouse secretly
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: recorded phone calls. Have you cop come hiding so he
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: knows what they're doing? Yeah, good Sokay, call it from
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: somebody else? And sometimes I've loved you so much? Hello?
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: You trying to call you later? Um? I don't, I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: don't know? Y Yeah, okay, I love you anyone? Well, okay,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: ive you? You know what again? Do you? Doctor Angela Arnold?
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: I'm just to Jada. It's a trial lawyer. Okay, what
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  Speaker 1: in the h E double l are they talking about,
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  Speaker 1: doctor Angela? I love you? I love you? Can I
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  Speaker 1: call you later? As they're digging up my children's dead bodies? Well?
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  Speaker 1: What world are they living? In? Their own world? Their
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: own world that they have created. Okay, But what struck
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: me when I listened to that phone call was the
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: change in her voice when she talked to him. She
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: became very childlike. Heard that. I heard that too, but
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: I didn't know the right words to describe it. She
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: became very childlike, and it's almost as if he has
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: all of this control over her. And then she's trying
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: to she's trying to comfort him, but it was mainly
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: that child like feeling that her voice that went into okay,
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  Speaker 1: because I've heard other things that Lori Ballo has said,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: and she can become very mean and nasty over the
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: phone when she's confronted, can't she? But was It's almost
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: like his little girl, isn't she? I think that that
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: phone call, there's going to be a lot about their
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: relationship that can be that can be piped through and
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: found out through just how they connected with each other
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  Speaker 1: over I really don't give a flying fig about their relationship.
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  Speaker 1: And if she jumps up in court and tries to
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: say she was brainwashed, over my cold dead body. But guys,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, let's bring it all home. I want
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: you to hear what was found on the scene. A
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: melted green bucket, was something damning inside of it? Roller Jackie.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Were there any other identifying features of that in that
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: area or as part of that mass that prew your attention? Yes?
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: There was? What was it? There was a melted green
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  Speaker 1: bucket that it appeared that the the burnt flesh had
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: been placed in under the bucket was a partial human
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: skull and were was that bucket? And the what you've
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: just described as a partial human skull? Were those also?
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Did you observe what was done with those? Yes? What
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: was done with those? They were also placed into a
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: bag in place in the Corners Vehicle crime stories with
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Were there any other identifying features of that
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: in that area or as part of that mass that
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: prew your attention? Yes? There was? What was it? There
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: was a melted green bucket that it appeared that the
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: the burnt flesh had been placed in under the bucket
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: was a partial human skull? And were was that bucket?
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: And the what you've just described as a partial human skull?
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Were those also? Did you observe what was done with those? Yes?
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: What was done with those? They were also placed into
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: a bag and placed in the Corners vehicle. Did you
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: hear that we are talking about a newly discovered evidence
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: in the search for JJ entirely the children I've called
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: mom Lorie Valo dead? Did you know this a melted
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: green bucket? That means they tried to burn it full
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: of human burnt flesh? You think I take joy in
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: saying that. I remember the first time I stood in
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: front of a jury and I had to recount the
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: facts surrounding a murder case, and it was a bad one.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: I could hardly say it without tears coming to my eyes.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to cry in front of a jury.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: But think about it. This is a seven year old
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: little boy and a teen girl his sister, and copsified
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: a melted green plastic bucket, I assumed plastic full of
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: burnt human flesh of these children, and part of a
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: human skull under the bucket. Just let that soak in
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: for a moment. Every time I have one of a
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: case about children, I think about my own children. Burnt
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: human flesh and a child's skull, and these two are
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: are the phone going. I love you too. Jennifer Shn,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: a renowned forensic pathologists joining US former San Diego Police
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Department crime Lab director. You know that's not easy, Jennifer.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: It's hard enough being a trial lawyer in the criminal
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: business surrounded by a bunch of felons and male defense attorneys.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: That's not fun. No offense Schweitzer and Marown. But I
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: can only imagine in your line of business, how you
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: made it to the top of crime lab director. My
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: hat's off to you. That's a whole other can of worms.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Jennifer sen How can you tell what what does burnt
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: human flesh even look like? Because these photos are going
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: to be showed to a jury, what does it look like?
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: You know, it's listening to your description of the bodies,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: it's just, you know, it's heart wrenching. And you know,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: I've been to many many crimp scenes in my in
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: my time, and you know, it's it's difficult to explain
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: what it's like to be standing in front of a
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: dead body. I was very worried about the first time
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: I did it, and you know, really there's something less,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: there's something left in the body when someone said there's
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: nothing left there. And so you can handle that by
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: just sort of working the case and trying to come
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: up with things and information that will help solve the crime.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: But when you deal with something like this, it's the
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: combination of the horrificness of the condition of the body
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: and you know, looking at a burnt body, first of all,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: the smell is just so intense and terrifyingly awful, but
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: just knowing the actions that occurred to create the situation
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: in front of you, it's it's almost more than the
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: average person can take. And I think you probably have
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: some pretty strong reactions by the cops at the scene
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: when they found bodies, because it's just it's horrifying, and
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: when you know that these were children, it's worse. I mean,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: it's just worse. I don't know why, but I'm trying
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: to take you. I've been on murder scenes where cops
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: actually threw up, especially rookies. Yeah, it's just horrifying. But
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: it's so much a matensory trying to figure out what
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: does burnt human flesh look like? Because I've tried a
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: lot of cases, including arson murder, but I've never seen
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: just flesh, burnt human flesh. I know that Tiley was
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: dismist and bird, so I don't know if this has
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: to do with Tyley or JJ, but I also know
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: that burned human flesh it's an awful, acrid odor. There's
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: there's nothing like it at all. It smells terrible. Have
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: you ever seen burnt human flesh, because I have not.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that looks like. No, I have
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: to say I have been very fortunate not to have
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: a scene where I had a burned body. But you
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: are correct. The smell is overwhelming and it's un undeniable,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: you know, exactly what it is when you need to
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: smell it, so it gets horrifying. We are talking about
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: what was found during the search while cult mom Laurie
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Valo and her brand new jackets. The fourth husband right,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: not judging, not judging, Uh, But what I don't like
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: about their marriage is that they planned their wedding and
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: she bought her wedding dress and ringing and I guess
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: after the Amazon order got there they had to get
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: rid of Tammy. Anyway, that's another story and another case
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: to be tried. But as these two are canoodling over
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: the gaelhouse phone, this is what is going down roller jack.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: The emmy grabbed a small sharp instrument and cut down
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: the middle of the black plasticall and what did you observe?
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: I observed a small child in red pajamas, red pajama shirt,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: red pajama pants, black socks that had the words Sketchers
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: in orange across the toes. Also observed a light and
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: blue blanket that had been placed on top of them. Okay,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: were there when you observed what you perceived to be
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: a child, Where there was there anything that drew your attention? Yes?
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: And describe one of you described for the court. What
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: drew your attention the amount of duct tape that was
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: covering the body. That is significant in psychological terms. The
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: way that the bodies were hidden, the way that they
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: were basically hermetically sealed with duct tape. Doctor Angel Arnold
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Remedy circle back to you on that. But I want
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: to go to crime online dot Com and investigative reporter
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Dave Matt. You know what, Dave Mac. One of the
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: first things I always asked, not the first, but one
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: of the first, as you well know, because I've asked you,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: was the body clothed? And if so, what was the
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: person wearing? Remember when Lacy Peterson's body was found what
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: was left of it in San Francisco Bay. She was
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: still wearing I believe, a maternity bra and I forgot
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: what else was on her body. That tells me a lot.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: That tells me based on where she was last seen
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: in what she was wearing, maybe when she was killed,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: when she was abducted. Now think back, Dave Mac, think
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: you use that noodle? Okay? The last time that JJ,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: seven year old JJ is seen alive, According to someone
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: visiting the home, Alex Cox, Laurie Valo's a brother came
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: in the room and JJ was asleep. He was holding
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: him in this right in his pj's with a blank
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: it over him. The medical examiner says, and we have
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: now learned this in sworn testimony, that JJ's body was
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: still wearing the red pj's wrapped in a blanket, black socks.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: That tells me exactly when JJ was killed, Dave Mack
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: and who had a hand in it, you know. Melanie
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Gibb described it as a touching moment on September twenty second,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: when Alex Cox was carrying of JJ because they thought
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: JJ was asleep. He had his head on Alex's shoulder
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: and it touched them because they thought, what a sweet
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: picture this is of an uncle carrying his nephew. And
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: JJ was wearing the red pajamas with the black socks,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: his head on his uncle's shoulder. Now, we don't know
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: if he was asleep at that time because of this
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: what we discovered when they found his body. Crime stories
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, guys, we were talking about recently revealed
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: evidence including cult mom Laurie Valo with her hubby on
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: the phone having a session while day Belle's property is
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: being searched. The bodies of two of her children are found.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: A green bucket, half melted, full of human flesh, a skull.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: These are her children. And as this is happening, she's
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: canoodling with day Bell on the phone. Jackie, please go
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: to cut eleven and I want you to hear how
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: JJ's body was disposed. Where was that duct tape locating
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: on the head, arms, and feet? Okay, let's talk about
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: the head area. When when you look at the head,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: what did you what did you observe there? The head
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: head a white plastic bag over the top of it.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: It appeared to be a normal trash bag, had a
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: red draw string. Uh, it appeared to be the expandable
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: type of trash bag with the waffle style pattern on
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: top of the head. All right, you've mentioned duct tape there.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: How where did you observe the duct tape? It was
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: duct tape that it was tightly wrapped around this way
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: tightly from his chin to his forehead area two. Jennifer Schen,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: forensic pathologist, former San Diego PD crime Weab director. Jennifer,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: the clothing on a body is very very important. How
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: do you explain to me? How do you go about
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: preserving everything. For instance, you get a body and it's
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: wrapped like a mummy and duct tape, how do you
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: preserve that duct tape? Because that's a great source of fingerprints.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: I'm sure Joseph Marona of Philadelphia is shuddering thinking of
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: his clients. Fingerprints on duct tape. Can't really hide that,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: and Donald Schweitz or detective, it tells me a lot
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: about how the bodies were sealed, so to speak. But Jennifer,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: how do you preserve that? And what do you do
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: with the clothes? How do you preserve them for touch
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: DNA or fibers or hair the killer may have deposited
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: on there, because I guarantee, Jennifer, what calt Mom and
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Dave Bella going to do is try to blame Alex Cox.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: That's going to be the scapegoat, as if they need
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: nothing about it. And I can't wait to hear them
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: explain how the bodies ended up in his pet cemeterial
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: on his farm. But Jennifer shin, how do you go
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: about preserving the duct type, the clothes, the fibers, the DNA.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: You know, it's it's a pretty complex process because you
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: have so many layers it's you know, it's always really
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: good news for investigators that there are there's a couple
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: layers of plastic bags, there's duct tape, there's clothing and
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: whatever else they might find in that you know, makeshift
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: grave site. So it has to be done carefully. Everything
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: has to be photographs and documented and then you just
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: go from the outer layer in the clothing will have
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: to likely be dried out so all the body fluids
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: are dry. What do you mean it has to be
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: dried out? How do you do that? We have special
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: hoods and things in the laboratory where if you have
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: bloody clothing or clothing that's been involved on a body
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: of the dcompassion of any kind, all of that has
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: to be dried out so that all the body fluids
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: become completely dry before they can be handled by anyone.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: So they had the condition of the body. There are
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: some things that have to be done just to make
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: make the evidence handleable by as scientists. And the duct tape,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of things you can do
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: you want to really preserve the end. Let me understand something.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: You dry you dry the items in a fridge. It's
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: a it's a hood. So it's a it's a big
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: like a big square box where all of the all
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: of the air flow is contained in a ducting system
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: so that that the evidence can lay out and dry
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: out while all of the you know, all of the
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: smell and the futurefcation smell is captured in a ducting system.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: So it's just a matter of well, what do you
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: call that box? It's not a fridge, And I thought
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: you were saying fridge. What is it a hood? A
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: fume hood hood cood? But and what was the word
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: before that? Did you say flumed? Hume? F gotcha? Okay,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: all right, so, m once everything has been in a
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: situation that's dry, then you're going to look for that evidence.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: So in the duct tape in particular, you're right fingerprints,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: you can get touched DNA. Sometimes if you're very Latin,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: you can connect the ends of the duct tape back
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: to a specific role of duct tape. Same with plastic bags.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: You're really trying to take anything that's in that grade
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: site and connect it back to the person that puts
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: the body in the grade site. So it's just a
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: very complex process because there's so much of it and
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: it has to be handled very carefully. You think, I
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: don't want to lose fibers and hairs, et cetera. It's
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: um it will take them quite a while to go
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: through all of that evidence. You brought up something really interesting.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Just then the duct type you know to you Donald
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Schwitzer or a former LA detective as we saw again,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: I'll you see taught Mom Casey Anthony case a trash
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: bag or duct tape. Both of them can be traced
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: to a specific type, like let's just pretend scotch tape
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: and it can be trace back if it's done properly
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: and timely to the manufacturer, the batch, the batch of
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: duct tape, and where that batch was sold. Let's just
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: say three twenty five let's boxes of duct tape were
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: sent to Rexburg. Let's just go with that, and you
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: can identify which stores that batch was sent to. Then
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: you go to the stores and you start pulling their
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: video so you can find when the purp bought the tape. Then,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: if you got any brains at all, as they did
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: and taught Mom case you go to the home and
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: you look from matching duct tape or matching trash bags
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: to show that's who owned the duct tape or the
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: trash bags. I don't know, because it took so meant,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: so many months to get this case going, whether they
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: did that, but how does that work? How can we
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: trace the duct tape back to its origin Fromancy? First
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: of all, I think these folks aught to hire you
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: as a consultant here. That was a brilliant investigation analysis,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: something I didn't even think about. Quite frankly, how do
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: they are? You just described it? I mean, that's exactly
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: how it would be done, you know, and this case
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: is very, very complicated, so evidence like that would be
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: very very useful. I think that, you know, when all
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: these pieces are put together, they the puzzle is going
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: to point to Lord and Chat, but it's going to
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: take efforts like that. Well, well, what are you all like?
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Do you right in them over to January? On a
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: first main basis? With Lori and Chad? Well, you know what,
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: I'm betting names so Vello and Dabo. Okay, I'll call
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: him their last names. That makes me feel a little
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: bit better. I got other names for them, but I
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: won't do that into a show. Uh. You know, I
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: think that it's very complicated, and that is a brilliant
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: way to tie it back. You know, there is going
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: to be an argument that, you know, the brother in law,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Alex Cox, was the bad guy, and you know he
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: put the bodies in the backyard. But when you look
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: at all the evidence that we'd know about so far,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: lying to authorities, asking others to lie, you know, uh,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: mutilated bodies, the phone calls. I mean, it's it's pretty
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: damning that there are at the very least accessories to
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: the crime. The question is did they actually do the
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: murders or were they just covering up efforts? But it
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: really doesn't matter because of the timeline that I think
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: is involved in this case. Thai profile defense attorney out
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: of Philadelphia, Joseph Marone Marone Law dot Joseph. I don't
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: know if you've ever dealt with fiber evidence, but I
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: was really blessed to have worked at a high volume
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: crime jurisdiction Inner City Atlanta, And I know you remember
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: the Atlanta murders of young men and young boys by
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Wayne Williams PS. I think that a lot of those
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: victims were lumped into Wayne Williams. I think he killed
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: plenty of them, but at a certain point they were
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: just lumping in every black mail that was found in
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: the water with Wayne Williams. He may have done them all,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: but I'm not totally sure about that. I know he
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: did several. But you know what they did for the
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: first time in the country, they used fiber evidence. In
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: other words, based on what Jennifer Sheen just told us,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: you preserve the evidence on the body, and they could
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: find fibers. So like, whoa where did these come from
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: the back of Wayne Williams car and his trunk and
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: his apartment. His home had a unique shag carpet and
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: it was traced back to the home and the car.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: So here even though Alex Cox was living I think
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: in the same apartment complex as Laurie Vallo. I wonder
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: if they could get fiber evidence off the bodies, they
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: had to be killed somewhere. What about it, Joseph Morone?
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: What about it is they haven't been charged with murder,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: and they've been kind of examining this case. Play stop it.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: But listen, they haven't brought the charges. You know, the
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: state that they want these people bad, they would have
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: brought these murder charges already, but they don't have the
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: the the evidence of forensics evidence to connect either either
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Laurie or Chats probably had can get you out and
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: back in the middle of the road. Fiber evidence, fiber evidence,
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: but you can rest. You can rest ashore that Alex's
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: DNA is all over those bodies. They even have digital
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: forensics evidence of Alex being at the property to day
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: those kids went missing. It's all over evidence. Murder. Whose property,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: Alice Cox? Was it? Whose property? It was Chad's problem,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Chad Day's property. I knew about it. The closest thing
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: they got to Chad known about it is the phone
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: call that he had with his with his girlfriend that
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: day where he didn't show this bass. I don't know
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: if you've got that technical legal term up in Philly,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: but I know it very well when I smell it,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: because Chad Daybille was starting a fire at a bally.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Chad and Laurie are horrible people. Killer. State wants to
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: charge them with murder yesterday and they haven't been able
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: to do it yet. That's a problem. That is a problem. Okay,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: you got me out of the barrel this time, but
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: not for long. We wait as justice unfalls, and I
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: pray to God that Chad at Daybelle and Laurie Valo
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: keep canoodling over the phone, so I and a jury
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: can hear it. Good life,