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What really happened to Jesus when he died on the Cross? · Centrally Speaking

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Centrally speaking, if the central strength of the church's podcast, it speaks about missions, that would be of interest to our society.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: In particular, if the dresses have a Christian worldview, intersects with Western secular culture.
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  SPEAKER_00: In the spirit of the church's family, we take the perspective of the Middle Event, which is in agreement with the historic Christian Church.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Dr.
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  SPEAKER_01: Drake Williams, Minister of Mission and Theology of the Church.
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  SPEAKER_01: Our website is www.cscfamily.mrg.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Today we are going to speak about when Jesus died on the cross.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: What really happened?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: We are coming up to Easter time.
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  SPEAKER_01: Many of our listeners will know that the cross is connected with Easter.
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  SPEAKER_01: However, many might know what actually took place.
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  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm joined by Dr.
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  SPEAKER_01: David McKinley, who is the senior minister here at the church.
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  SPEAKER_01: David, it's good to have you with us.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Dre.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Great to be here.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: David, you know that uh people will associate the cross with Christianity, uh, but the cross was originally used by the Romans.
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  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us about the origins of crucifixion?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
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  SPEAKER_02: Crucifixion in the ancient world was something that was uh used for execution, of course.
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  SPEAKER_02: It was uh started actually by the Persians, and the Romans retrieved it from them.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, they refined the process and made it the way to put to death someone in the most painful, agonizing way, also to make an example of those subjects that were given crucifixion.
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  SPEAKER_02: So it was an awful way to die.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it seemed like an odd symbol to associate with a religion, like uh associating it with uh the gallows or uh with uh an electric chair.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: True.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I I should state that uh it wasn't probably until after Constantine, uh when crucifixion was outlawed, that it became a symbol for Christianity.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, the early symbols for Christianity uh were the fish, maybe some others, but the cross didn't become a symbol of Christianity till much later, say uh 500 years after the time of Christ.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: What happened when uh a uh person was put uh on a cross uh to be crucified?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, can you tell us uh what took place uh when people were sentenced to die like that?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, usually a person was underwent some type of punishment before crucifixion, and in the case of the Romans, oftentimes a person was flogged before they were put on the cross.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: And some did not survive the flogging, of course.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that was a gruesome uh treatment of an individual.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh maybe some of our listeners had have seen uh the movie The Passion of the Christ, Mel Gibson's film.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: But having said that, um, crucifixion was uh an awful way to die, as I stated before.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Nails were placed in the wrists, not in the not in the the uh the the palm of the hand, but rather in the wrist, uh up above uh the wrist, the joint there, uh, so that uh a person would hang by by the joints of the wrists, and then also uh a nail uh would pierce uh the ankle bone, pinning a person to the cross, and over many hours and sometimes days, a person would hang there on the cross, and the body would sag to such the extent that uh the person would die of asphyxiation.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: They would suffocate to death, and so it was a long, drawn-out, agonizing death uh that was the most painful way to die.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: How long uh do you estimate some of those nails were that they used uh on the cross?
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  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's interesting.
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  SPEAKER_02: I I would imagine that they would have to be at least uh nine inches long, uh the a little bit more than a a railroad spike, and and and slender enough that they would uh you know go through the wrist without ripping the wrist.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: But I I would imagine uh nine, ten inches long.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned that people would sometimes take uh a day, two days, uh by which they would be on the cross and die.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um I guess there would be uh passers by, those that would uh uh see what was happening.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Was there was there a stigma to being uh crucified uh in the ancient world?
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  SPEAKER_02: Most definitely.
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  SPEAKER_02: Um those who were crucified were the worst of the worst, and uh those who had committed all sorts of crimes, such as uh treason um or murder.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in fact, if you are a Roman citizen, you could not be crucified.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: You could be put to death in other ways, but crucifixion was the Romans' way of making an example out of someone.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh and the person was was put on display in public in Jerusalem where uh there are two sites actually uh that are thought uh uh this is a somewhat of a controversial issue, but uh the place of the crucifixion is somewhat debated.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there's two spots that it could have taken place, uh, but nevertheless, uh it was a very public uh place.
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  SPEAKER_02: Uh person was made uh as a spectacle, and yes, there would be people that would pass by, hurl insults, uh um, and it would be just an awful scene.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Movies like uh Spartacus, where uh there was also public crucifixion and many people uh uh on the cross.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned uh the passion uh by uh Mel Gibson.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've both seen that uh film.
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  SPEAKER_01: Do you might you have any comments about uh the passion and uh and the means by which it displayed crucifixion?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, interesting.
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  SPEAKER_02: Uh the Pope at the time said um it is as it was, and so you have the endorsement of the Catholic Church saying that the crucifixion uh being depicted in that movie was accurate.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: Also, if uh you were to get a copy of Charles Coulson's Loving God that was published in 1983, that's a very graphic uh one of the chapters is devoted to Christ's crucifixion.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's a very graphic uh explanation of what crucifixion was like.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: And all these uh have their place in uh Christian education because it really uh gives us a deeper appreciation for what Jesus Christ went through on behalf of his followers.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: That gets us to the question of uh why Jesus died.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he was talking about this through the gospels uh from uh many chapters prior to the crucifixion.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's sort of an odd thing for a leader of a religion to think about their death and think about uh crucifixion before uh they're actually crucified.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh why, in your opinion, uh did Jesus have to be crucified?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's a great question, Drake.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um in the Old Testament, uh, this was prophesied of.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um of course Paul um makes a lot of uh the verse, I believe it's in Deuteronomy, that says, uh, cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree, and he applies that to Jesus receiving the curse on behalf of his uh followers, the curse of God.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um also Jesus uh said that it was part of God's plan, that it was the fulfillment of righteousness, that he predicted many times that he would be, he would go to Jerusalem and be betrayed into the hands of sinful men and be killed and would rise again on the third day.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um Jesus uh described his own death as God God's gift or uh God doing something in that act.
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  SPEAKER_02: Uh 1 John chapter 4 tells us uh in this is love, not that we love God, but that he loved us and gave his son as a propitiation for our sins.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was on that cross that Jesus satisfied God's requirement for sin.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's why uh Christians uh call that Friday before Easter Good Friday, because it's upon that cross, on Good Friday, that Jesus gave his life so that we could be forgiven of the offenses that we've done against God.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sort of ironic title for a holiday, uh, Good Friday, isn't it?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, about uh crucifixion.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it is.
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  SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, it's good from our perspective.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: His death on the cross was shorter than others.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um why was that the case?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: The Jewish holiday of the Passover was soon approaching, and uh Jesus had celebrated the Passover with his disciples, and it was against Jewish custom to uh for people to hang on the cross or uh for there to be any public um uh display of of um uh of death uh during the Passover, and so the Romans had to speed up the process for those who were uh being put to death that day, and so as was their custom, instead of the body just hanging there for days so that the birds could uh uh could pick at it, or in other cases it's been reported that uh while dogs could dispose of the uh of the bodies on crosses, uh the Romans felt it was necessary to speed things up on that day, and so their usual um pattern was to break the legs of those who were being crucified, and they did in the respect of the two thieves that were hung on either side of Jesus.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: But for reasons that God had, uh they took a spear, and as the gospel gospels record, uh they thrust it into Jesus' side, and so it pierced his heart, and that sped up his death, of course.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Joseph of Arimathea and uh Nicodemus requested that Jesus' body be taken down from the cross so that they could give it a proper burial.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is the reason that Jesus' death did not last as long as maybe others, six hours from nine o'clock in the morning till three o'clock in the afternoon, and then he was taken down from the cross and uh put in uh Joseph's tomb.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: This must have been quite a scene that happened uh many, many years ago with uh with Jesus dying, and of course, uh remembered and commemorated by uh the church uh worldwide uh ever since.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um in the church uh where you are serve with this church where you serve as uh senior pastor, you are well aware that we have a steeple with a cross on the top of it.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the foundation of the building is in the shape of a cross.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Our gar garden of memories uh behind the church uh has uh a cross uh in it.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Why is the cross so important to this church, in your opinion?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's a good question, Drake.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think that uh the cross is central to Christianity, and I think it was central to Caspar Schwankfeld's theology.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um we are called oftentimes the confessors of the glory of Christ.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh the the person of Christ, his death, his burial, his resurrection, his sinless life, I think uh the cross reminds us that it's only through the cross that we can have a relationship with a holy and a righteous God.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Jesus came uh and died on that cross so that we could know God in a very personal way, and so it is central to everything that we are and everything that we do.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Some of our uh listeners might not be aware, but uh Caspar Schwankfeld even reflected on uh the death of uh Jesus, uh, writing out uh many, many prayers uh about that actual uh event itself.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that you'd like to say uh to our listeners about the significance of Christ uh for them as and his crucifixion as they come, as we come to uh Easter time?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I would just say that this is the most important time of the year for followers of Jesus, and uh it's not something closed or something private, but the good news of the gospel is for the whole world and uh the message that Jesus had uh for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him would not perish but have everlasting life.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the reason uh for that message is the cross of Christ.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would just encourage our listeners that if you've never made a commitment to Christ, never realized uh your need for forgiveness, and never experienced the sense that you can be forgiven and restored to a right relationship with God, there's nothing more important that you can pursue in your life.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, of course, we all have various interests and we're pulled in different directions through job, through family, through special interests, but this one area of life is the most important area because it not only applies to here in this life, but also uh is relevant for eternity.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh Easter and uh Good Friday and uh the Passover, it all is very significant uh to Christians everywhere.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for coming and sharing uh about that.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you to our listeners to listening to Centrally Speaking at Ministry from the Central Schrankfelder Church in Worcester, Pennsylvania.