Latest / Murder Files Unsealed / College Student Murders Entire Family During Pandemic

Transcript

College Student Murders Entire Family During Pandemic · Murder Files Unsealed

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You know, usually when you talk about a home, there
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: is this built-in, almost primal expectation of safety. You treat
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: it like a fortress, right?
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. It is an evolutionary comfort. We fundamentally crave
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: these physical boundaries that just feel impenetrable. Right.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: You lock the front door, you set the security alarm,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: and the deadbolt clicks heavily into place. And you just
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: instinctively exhale.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Because you need that psychological separation. You need it to
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: be able to close your eyes and sleep at night. Exactly.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Exactly. The bad guys are out there and the good
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: guys are in here. But when you step into the
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: world of domestic homicide and, you know, psychological manipulation, that
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: deadbolt is worse than useless.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it becomes a literal trap. You are looking at
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: a landscape where the threat isn't trying to pry open
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: a window to get in.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: No, the threat is already sitting across the dinner table.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: That is exactly the mirage we are tearing down today
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: in this deep dive.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: It is the absolute definition of a terrifying domestic mirage.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: You spend your life building this fortress only to realize
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: you've locked yourself inside with the predator.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: So today we are analyzing an extensive stack of source materials.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: We're looking at transcripts and coverage from true crime documentaries
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: produced by the Law and Crime Network.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: And we are focusing on two separate, just completely chilling
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: family homicides. The overarching theme pouring out of these documents
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: is this terrifying illusion of the perfect affluent suburban family.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Right. We're exploring what happens when the most dangerous threat
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: to your life is, you know, sleeping just down the hall.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: What jumps out immediately when you look at these two
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: cases is the staggering hubris of the perpetrators. I mean,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: it's wild.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I really thought they were the smartest guys in the room,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: didn't they?
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: They honestly believed they had crafted the perfect alibi. They
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: thought they could outwit the entire justice system.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: But they were undone by microscopic, forensic details.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Right. And incredibly persistent detective work. Plus their own inability
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: to just stop talking.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And what we are really analyzing here is the
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: extraordinary legal and investigative labyrinth required to prove a murder
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: when the primary witnesses are dead.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Because the victims aren't there to testify. So as you
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: listen along today, I want you to ask yourself a
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: pretty uncomfortable question.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: It's a very dark question to consider.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: It is. How well do you really know the people
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: living under your roof? If the unthinkable happened, what would
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: the microscopic evidence say about the life you thought you
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: were living?
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: How does the justice system speak for the dead when
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: the killer completely controls the initial narrative?
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Well, to answer that, we are heading to Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: We're looking at a case that highlights how a community
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: that views itself as insulated from violent crime can just
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: have its reality shattered in a single morning.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: We are talking about the Jackson family massacre. And the
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: date is June 15th, 2021.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Right. And the location here is super important context. This
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: happened on Oakleaf Court.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, Oakleaf Court in Cedar Rapids. This is a very affluent, quiet,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: meticulously manicured neighborhood.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: The kind of zip code where a triple homicide isn't
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: just rare, it's practically unheard of.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: To put it in perspective, the last time Cedar Rapids
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: saw a triple homicide was in 1982. It had been
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: nearly 40 years.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Wow, 40 years. Okay, so put yourself in the shoes
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: of a 911 dispatcher. It is a Tuesday morning around 8.30 a.m.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: People are just doing their normal routines, commuting to work,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: kids eating breakfast.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the switchboard lights up. On the other end
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: of the line is a 20-year-old man named Alex Jackson.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: And he is frantic.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: He tells the dispatcher that a man dressed head-to-toe in
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: black clothes wearing a ski mask broke into his house.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: And he says this intruder shot his father and then
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: shot him in the foot, right?
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: That's right. He claims the guy then fled out the
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: back door in the basement.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Now, the initial police response captured on the dispatch audio
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: is actually really fascinating.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: It is, especially from a law enforcement perspective. You have
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: patrol officers rushing to the scene and they are actively
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: questioning the reality of the call over the radio.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Because they hear the address and they know the neighborhood.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: You could literally hear an officer say, I think this
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: is going to be a swatting deal.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Which makes total sense. Swatting is that dangerous prank where
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: someone makes a fake emergency call to send a SWAT
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: team to an innocent person's house.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Right. Because the scenario Alex is describing just does not compute.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: A random masked gunman committing a home invasion at 830
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: in the morning in a wealthy suburb.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Statistically, it's highly improbable. But then they pull up to
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: the house, they ring the doorbell, and there's just silence.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: And their entire protocol has to shift right then and there.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: They realize they have to breach the house.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Exactly. They transition into a tactical sweep, and this is
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: incredibly tense for those officers.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, they are walking into a massive, multi-level home,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: completely blind, right?
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Yes. They have to assume there is an active shooter
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: hiding in a closet, behind a door, or just around
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: a corner.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: So they clear the first few areas, and they find
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Alex Jackson down the hallway. He's bleeding from a gunshot
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: wound to his foot.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: But then the officers push deeper into the house, and
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: that is when the grim reality sets in.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: They find the first victim. Jan Jackson, the 61-year-old father,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: is dead on the floor.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: And the sweep continues, and it just gets darker. They
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: move to the bedrooms.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: They find the 19-year-old sister, Sabrina. And the officer's reports
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: note a really disturbing detail here.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: She was lying in bed, still under the covers. She
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: was pulled into a tight fetal position.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: She had been shot directly in her left eye. It's
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: just horrific. And finally, they locate the 68-year-old mother, Melissa.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: She is on the floor of the master bedroom, but
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: investigators immediately notice multiple bullet holes punched through the headboard
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: and the pillow on her bed.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's unpack this. Because that physical evidence strongly indicates
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: the shooter initially targeted her while she was asleep in
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: bed too, right?
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is an absolute slaughter. The mother, the father,
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: and the sister are all dead from catastrophic gunshot wounds
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: to the head.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Out of a family of four, the only survivor is
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: the 20-year-old son, Alex, with a single bullet wound to
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: his foot.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: If you look at this from a purely logical standpoint,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: the alarm bells are just deafening.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Right, because it's like walking onto a movie set where
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: the script doesn't match the props. The narrative of a
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: random burglary completely falls apart.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Exactly. If someone breaks into a mansion in a wealthy neighborhood,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: the motive is almost always property theft. You want jewelry, cash, electronics.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: You want to get in and get out undetected. Now,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: if a homeowner wakes up and startles you, maybe you
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: panic and fire a weapon.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: But a random thief does not systematically walk from room
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: to room, executing three separate people with precision headshots.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: And then somehow only shoot the single surviving eyewitness, a
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: physically capable 20-year-old man, in the foot. It makes no sense.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: You are touching on the psychology of staged crime scenes here,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: which is a major focus in behavioral analysis.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Right, because amateurs always mess it up, don't they?
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: They do. When an amateur tries to stage a crime
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: scene to look like a home invasion, they almost always
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: over-engineer it. Or they miss glaring logical inconsistencies.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: And the patrol officers spotted these red flags before the
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: bodies were even removed.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: First, they looked at the perimeter. There was absolutely zero
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: sign of forced entry.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: No pried door frames, no shattered glass near the locks,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: and the back door in the basement.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: The one Alex explicitly claimed the intruder used to escape.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: It was completely undisturbed.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: And the internal evidence of this supposedly epic life or
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: death struggle was just completely missing.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Alex told the police he wrestled with this intruder. He
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: described him as a huge man.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: If a 20-year-old kid is fighting for his life against
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: a huge mass murderer, that room should be destroyed.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: But there were no knocked-over lamps, no scuff marks on
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: the drywall, no torn clothing, no overturned furniture.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Aside from the horrific violence inflicted on the bodies, the
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: house was perfectly pristine.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: And the most damning piece of early evidence wasn't even
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: discovered by a detective. It was found by Canine Corsa,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: the police tracking dog.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Now, I found this detail in the source materials fascinating.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Can you break down exactly how that canine search works?
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. We have to understand the biological mechanics of fear
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: and olfaction.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, lay it on me.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: Humans constantly shed microscopic skin cells called rafts, tens of
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: thousands of them every single minute.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: So we're just leaving a trail everywhere we go.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Now, when a person commits a triple homicide and
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: runs out the back door in a sheer panic, their
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: sympathetic nervous system is in overdrive.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: They're pumping adrenaline. Right.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Their apocrine sweat glands are highly active, and the bacteria
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: breaking down that sweat creates a highly specific, very pungent odor.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Wow. So it is a literal scent trail of fear
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: and exertion. The dog isn't just looking for a generic
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: human smell.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: No, it's looking for a highly elevated biological marker. Canine
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Corsa was deployed in the yard immediately to track this
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: fleeing intruder.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: And if a massive, terrified man just sprinted through the
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: morning dew, that dog would lock onto the scent plumes.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: The canine Corsa swept the entire perimeter, the backyard, the
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: property lines, the neighboring yards, and found absolutely nothing.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Zero cent trail. And add to that the digital evidence.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Police quickly pulled surveillance video from a neighbor security camera
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: across the street.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: The camera had a wide, clear view of the Jackson
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: family home from 6.00 a.m. to 8.30 a.m. No one
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: approached the house and no one left.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: So within hours, the physical, biological, and digital evidence is
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: all screaming that the killer never left the house.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: The call is coming from inside the house.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: But the police still have to deal with the immediate
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: reality in front of them. They have a 20-year-old young
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: man who just survived a massacre, and he is actively bleeding.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: This moves the investigation from the physical crime scene right
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: into a psychological battleground in the local emergency room.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Enter Detective Matthew Denninger, the lead investigator on the case.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: He meets Alex at the hospital.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Alex is on a gurney waiting for treatment for the
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: bullet hole in his foot. And Denninger makes a highly
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: populated decision.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Scrutinized one, too. He decides he needs to interview Alex
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: immediately on camera right there in the ER trauma bay.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: And the transcripts reveal a really intense detail here. Denninger
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: specifically asked the ER nurse to hold off on administering fentanyl.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: The medical staff was about to give Alex this incredibly
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: potent opioid for the pain, and Denninger asked for a
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: 15-minute delay.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: He wanted a clear, unmedicated statement from the victim.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Isn't that incredibly risky? Maybe even unethical. You have a
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: victim who has allegedly just survived his family being slaughtered.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: From a defense attorney's perspective, yes, they would argue it's coercive.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Right. He is in severe physical pain. His adrenaline is crashing.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: He is traumatized. Couldn't that lead to a false confession?
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: That is a documented phenomenon. But this raises an important
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: question about emergency police work and the public safety exception.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: So how does that exception actually work?
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Normally, before an interrogation, you have to read someone their
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Miranda rights. And you want them calm and sober to
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: ensure any statement is voluntary.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: But if there's a mass murderer on the loose?
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Exactly. The Supreme Court established this exception. Denninger testified he
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: had to operate under the assumption that Alex's story might
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: actually be true.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Because if it was true, waiting 72 hours for Alex
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: to get out of surgery and sober up could mean
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: more deaths.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: The ticking clock forced his hand. He needed a physical
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: description of the shooter immediately.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Plus, fentanyl deeply affects cognition and memory recall, right?
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: It does. If Denninger let him get medicated, the defense
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: could later argue any inconsistencies in Alex's story were just
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: a side effect of the drugs.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: But getting a statement before the fentanyl, Denninger locks Alex
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: into a lucid narrative.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: And what is truly wild about reading these transcripts is
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: that Alex never actually confesses in the ER.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: He never breaks down and says, I did it. He
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: sticks to his intruder story.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: But his demeanor, his total lack of appropriate emotion, and
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: the bizarre statements he starts making essentially dig his grave.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: And Inger and his partner are pressing him for basic details.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Was he white? Black? Hair. Shoes.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: And Alex is incredibly vague. He offers almost nothing actionable.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: But then, unprompted, she starts talking about his own foot wound.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: And it's verbatim from the source material. He says, it hurts,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: you know, I thought it would hurt worse.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: I thought it would hurt worse. When you process that
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: sentence in the context of a triple homicide, it is chilling.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Who survives a brutal home invasion where their family is
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: executed and casually remarks that getting shot in the foot
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: didn't hurt as much as they expected.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: It is a massive psychological slip of the tongue. He
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: is unconsciously answering a question he had only been asking
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: himself internally.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: The only person who contemplates how much a bullet to
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: the foot is going to hurt is someone planning to
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: shoot themselves as a diversion.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: During this multi-hour period, Denninger shifts from taking a statement
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: to gently confronting him.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: He tells Alex the physical evidence doesn't match his story.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: No scent trail. No sign of a struggle.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: The medical monitors are beeping. His heart rate is spiking.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: But his core story never wavers. He just repeats, there
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: was a man.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Which leaves the investigators with a massive why. You have
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: this 20-year-old kid who, outwardly, is the quintessential golden boy.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: He was an Eagle Scout. He was in the high
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: school marching band. He had no criminal record, didn't drink,
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: didn't do drugs.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: But when detectives started digging into the family's digital footprint,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: that perfect suburban facade began to crack.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: The pressure inside that house was building to a breaking point.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: And the timing is a crucial factor. This was the
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: summer of 2021.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Right. Pandemic lockdowns. The shift to remote learning had severely
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: impacted the family dynamic.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Alex was technically a junior at the University of Iowa,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: but he had completely disengaged. He failed every single one
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: of his classes that last semester.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: And his father, Jan, was furious. The sources indicate Jan
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: was paying thousands of dollars out of pocket for this tuition.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: And he was threatening to completely cut Alex off financially.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Witnesses quoted Jan saying he didn't want to pay for
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: his kid to just fail out because he refused to focus.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: That financial and academic failure is a massive point of friction.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: The golden boy is losing his status.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: But the investigation also revealed a deep ideological friction within
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: the house, specifically between Alex and his sister, Sabrina.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: We want to be very clear here for our listeners.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: We are strictly, neutrally independent. reporting what was presented in
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: the trial transcripts regarding their relationship.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: They aren't taking any ideological sides, but detectives learned from
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Sabrina's friends that the siblings held significantly different, polarizing political views.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Which led to intense, escalating arguments under that roof. And
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: there was a deeply personal tension, too.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Yes. Sabrina was bisexual, and her friends reported she was
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: terrified of how Alex would react if he found out.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: She felt she had to hide a core part of
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: her identity because of the hostility radiating from her brother.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: So you have severe financial resentment, catastrophic academic failure, and
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: deep personal tension all trapped under one roof.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: It was far from the happy home the neighbors saw.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: But understanding the environment isn't the same as proving a
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: murder in court.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Proving that a son slaughtered his family relies entirely on
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: the cold, hard mechanics of guilt, which brings us to
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: the physical evidence.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the murder weapon, because the forensic details
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: here are fascinating.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: The weapon was a. 22 caliber rifle. But it wasn't
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: a standard hunting rifle.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: No, it was a Browning. 22 semi-automatic. And it's a
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: highly unique piece of engineering.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Most modern rifles have a detachable box magazine that clicks
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: into the bottom of the gun. This Browning, however, utilized
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: a tubular magazine.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: And it was located entirely inside the buttstock of the gun, right? Yeah.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: The part you rest against your shoulder. Exactly.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: It's so non-intuitive that investigator Brandon Bosenberg, a firearms expert,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: had to watch a YouTube video just to figure out
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: how to load it.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: A professional who handles firearms every day had to look
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: up a tutorial. That is a massive detail for the
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: prosecution's timeline.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: You don't just pick up this specific quirky rifle in
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: the dark, in a panic, and intuitively know how to
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: operate it.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: It's a mechanical puzzle. You have to twist the inner tube,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: pull it out, drop small cartridges into a hole one
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: by one, and lock it down.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: It requires immense muscle memory.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: It's like finding a vintage double-clutch stick shift car at
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: a getaway scene. You know, the driver wasn't just some
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: random thief.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: And the forensic reality dictated that this rifle had to
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: be reloaded during the massacre to account for the sheer
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: number of shots fired.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: So the killer didn't just empty the gun. They had
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: to stop amidst the violence, pull that tube out, manually
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: feed rounds in, close it up, and continue the executions.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: A panicked intruder trying to steal a TV doesn't do that.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Someone who lives in the house who has handled that
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: specific gun does.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Furthermore... When the state crime lab processed the rifle, they
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: found latent prints. Both of Alex Jackson's handprints were frumly
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: on the weapon.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: And there were zero signs of anyone else's prints. No
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: smudges indicating a life or death struggle, completely contradicting Alex's story.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: So the state charges Alex with three counts of first-degree murder.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: And when the trial begins, his physical transformation is jarring.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: He had lost well over 100 pounds. He grew out
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: his hair, sported a goatee. He looked nothing like the
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: clean-cut Eagle Scout from the family photos.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: The defense strategy led by Tyler Johnston was aggressive because
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: they were backed into a corner.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: They aggressively attacked the police work. They painted Denninger's ER
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: interview as coercive, arguing Alex was in deep shock.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: And they brought in character witnesses, old Boy Scout leaders,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: family friends, trying to humanize him.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: They testified he was a good, respectful kid with zero
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: history of violence. The defense argued it was fundamentally unimaginable
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: for a loving son to execute his family without an
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: explosive motive.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: But the prosecution, Monica Slaughter and Jordan Shear, they played
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: the 911 audio for the jury. And it is haunting.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Prosecutor Slaughter pointed out that when Alex called dispatch, he
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: said he had been shot. He said his dad had
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: been shot.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: But never once in the entire call does he yell
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: out to check on his mother or his sister.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: He never screams down the hall, Sabrina, lock your door.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: It's a devastating behavioral observation.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Why didn't he call out to them? The prosecution argued
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: the answer was simple, because he already knew they were dead.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: The absolute climax of the trial came when Detective Denninger
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: was on the witness stand.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: The defense was aggressively cross-examining him, trying to poke holes
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: in the timeline.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: The defense attorney asks Denninger, so is it your theory
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: that after he shot himself, he took the firearm back
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: up the hallway and dropped it off by his father?
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: And Denninger just looks directly at the jury and says,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: that's exactly what I think happened.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Which is a massive legal moment. Normally, police officers aren't
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: allowed to state their personal theory of the crime as
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: a definitive narrative.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: It borders on telling the jury exactly what to think.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: But the defense phrased the question in a way that
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: legally opened the door.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: It provided the jury with a clear, cohesive timeline of
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: the staging process.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: The jury absorbed all of this, and they were only
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: out for six hours.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: For a complex triple homicide case built largely on circumstantial evidence,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: that is an incredibly fast turnaround.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: They came back with guilty verdicts on all three counts.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Alex Jackson was sentenced to three consecutive life sentences without parole.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: The judge summarized it perfectly. There were no winners. An
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: entire family lineage was violently erased, and a 22-year-old was
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: locked in a cage for life.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: It was a sudden explosive eruption of violence, which brings
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: us to a psychological.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Pivot that is Because the next case in our sources
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: is the exact opposite of an explosion. It is a
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: horrifying slow burn. Right.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: We are moving from a chaotic morning in Iowa to
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: a methodical, years-long campaign of psychological torture in Wisconsin.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Let's dig into the Jensen antifreeze murder. The year is
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: 1998 in a beautiful community called Carroll Beach, Wisconsin.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Right on the lakefront of Lake Michigan. Mark and Julie
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Jensen are a wealthy couple with two young boys, David
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: 8 and Douglas 4.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: From the outside, it looks picture perfect, but the rot
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: inside this marriage started years earlier, in 1990. While Mark was.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Out of town, Julie had a brief one-night affair with
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: a co-worker. She felt immense guilt and confessed to Mark.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: In a normal trajectory, a couple might try counseling or divorce.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: But Mark Jensen didn't want to lose control or divide
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: his assets.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Instead, he allegedly initiated an eight-year campaign of psychological warfare
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: against his own wife.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: He weaponized her guilt. Julie started experiencing intense, bizarre harassment,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: hang-up phone calls at all hours.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: And even more disturbing, pornographic photos were being left around
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: the house in places only someone with intimate access could reach.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: It is textbook gaslighting. She genuinely believed she had a
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: deranged stalker.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: She actually went to the local police about it, kept
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: a massive detailed log of every incident.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: The detectives told her to get handwriting samples from Mark,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: so she secretly gathered his notes and brought them in.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: The state crime lab analyzed them, looking at pressure points, loops, spacing,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: and it was a perfect match.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Mark's handwriting was on the terrifying photos. But here is
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: the profound tragedy of domestic abuse.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: When the police tell Julie her husband is doing this,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: she doesn't leave him.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: She drops the police investigation entirely. She wanted to protect
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: her relationship with her boys and keep the family together.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: She essentially surrendered to the psychological torture. Fast forward to
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: December 3rd, 1998.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: Sirens approach the Jensen home. Julie Jensen, an otherwise completely
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: healthy 40-year-old woman, is found dead in her bed.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Mark tells officers she had been severely sick for three days,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: couldn't get out of bed, and he found her unresponsive.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: And this is where the investigation hits a massive structural
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: brick wall. The medical examiner conducts an autopsy but can't
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: find a cause of death.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: No physical trauma, no heart attack, no stroke. The autopsy
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: results are officially marked as pending.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: And a pending autopsy is an absolute investigative nightmare.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Because if you can't scientifically determine the cause of death,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: you can't legally determine the manner of death, right?
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Exactly. If you don't have proof a murder happened, you
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: cannot officially open a homicide investigation. You can't get search warrants.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: The police were paralyzed. Mark Jensen was legally free to
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: go about his life. It looked like he pulled off
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: the perfect crime.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Until... A neighbor steps forward and hands the police a
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: piece of paper that literally changes United States legal history.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: A week and a half before she died, Julie handed
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: her neighbor a sealed envelope. She said, if anything happens
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: to me, give this to the police.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: This document becomes known as the letter from the grave,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: and the contents are absolutely chilling.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: She writes that her marriage has deteriorated into the polite superficial.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: She fears Mark is planning to harm her.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: But the most vital sentence is her definitive statement regarding
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: her own mental state. She explicitly wrote she would never
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: commit suicide.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: She said she would never leave her two boys without
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: a mother. And she provided physical evidence to back it up.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: She included a photograph of a post-it note she found
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: in Mark's day planner. It read, Owned drug supply bag,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: hand syringe.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: It read exactly like a brainstorming list for an untraceable murder.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: This letter finally gives the police probable cause.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: They get a warrant and seize the family computer. This
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: is 1998, the era of dial-up internet.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Digital forensics is in its infancy. But what they find
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: on that hard drive blows the case wide open.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: The search history is a roadmap of premeditation. Searches for botulism,
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: pipe bombs, and ethylene glycol poisoning.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Ethylene glycol is the active, highly toxic ingredient in everyday
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: automotive antifreeze.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: And the biology of this poison is horrific. It is odorless, colorless,
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: and sweet-tasting. Very easy to slip into juice.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: When a person ingests it, the liver enzymes break it
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: down into highly toxic byproducts, right?
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, glycolic acid and oxalic acid. It causes a slow,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: agonizing cascade of organ failure.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: The victim experiences severe cardiac arrhythmia. Intense difficulty breathing.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: And slowly, those acids bind with calcium to form physical
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: crystals inside the kidneys and the brain. The organs literally
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: crystallize and shut down.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: It takes days of suffering. But ethylene glycol is almost
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: never tested for during a standard autopsy.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: So armed with this search history, detectives have the medical
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: examiner test the retained blood and tissue samples specifically for antifreeze.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: And they find massive lethal amounts of it in Julie's system.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: They have a cause of death.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: But the legal hurdle remains. Proving how it got into
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: her system, the defense could argue she drank it herself.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: This is where the digital footprint provides the kill shot
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: to Mark's alibi.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: The digital forensic investigators looked at the exact timestamps of
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: those dial-up internet searches.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: And those searches were conducted during the three days that
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Julie was severely incapacitated in bed?
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Precisely. She couldn't have been at the computer. While she
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: is violently ill, Mark is actively tracking the symptoms of
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: the poisons.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Watching the clock as his wife slowly dies in the
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: next room. That is deeply evil. But why pull the
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: trigger now?
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Well, Mark had his own massive secret. He was having
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: a long-term affair with a woman named Kelly Labonte.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: And the hubris here is staggering. In October, he emailed
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Kelly saying they needed time to clean up our lives.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: And shortly after Julie is put in the ground, Kelly
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: moves her belongings right into the Carroll Beach house.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: As if she just stepped right into Julie's shoes without
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: missing a beat.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Four months after Julie dies, Detective Paul Ratzberg, nicknamed the
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Pit Bull, brings Mark in for a voluntary interview.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Mark saunters in, probably thinking he's totally outsmarted these local cops.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Ratzberg plays a brilliant game of psychological chess. He confronts
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Mark about the old harassment case, then the computer searches.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Mark plays dumb. So Ratzberg pulls out the trump card.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: He slides Julia's letter from the grave across the table.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: Ratzberg tells him, we have a letter from your dead
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: wife saying if she dies, you did it. But Mark
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: doesn't crack.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: He consistently denies doing anything. And without a confession, the
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: district attorney in 2002 makes a pragmatic decision.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: They decide they don't have enough concrete evidence to guarantee
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: a conviction. They let him go.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Mark thinks he's won. But then DA Robert Jambo sees
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: an engagement announcement in the newspaper. Mark and Kelly are
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: getting married.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: DA Jambo realizes he cannot let this man continue to
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: operate in the community. He decides to risk everything on
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: the circumstantial case.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: In March 2002, Mark Jensen is finally arrested and charged
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: with first-degree intentional homicide.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: And the moment he's arrested, people who were afraid to
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: speak up start talking. Two key informants emerge.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: First is a former co-worker, Ed Klug, who says Mark
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: bragged about killing a wife using undetectable poisons like ethylene glycol.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: The second informant is Aaron Dillard, an inmate housed in
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: the same block as Mark. Dillard claims Mark gave him
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: a full confession.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: He tells police Mark admitted to slipping antifreeze into Julie's juice.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: But it was taking too long.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: So Mark rolled Julie onto her stomach, sat heavily on
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: her back, and shoved her face deep into a pillow
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: until she suffocated.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Now, can a jury actually trust a known con man
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: looking for a plea deal? The defense shredded him on
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: the stand.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: It is a huge problem with jailhouse snitches. But what
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: made Dillard's testimony compelling was holdback evidence.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Details only the killer and the cops would know. Exactly. Exactly.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Dillard knew Julie's body was found rolled onto her side
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: and stomach. He also knew the medical examiner suspected asphyxiation
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: based on lividity.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Dillard couldn't have guessed those medical details. The prosecution builds
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: this massive wall of evidence culminating in Julia's letter.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: But admitting that letter triggers a massive legal earthquake over
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: the confrontation clause of the Sixth Amendment.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Which guarantees the right to confront and cross-examine witnesses. How
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: do you cross-examine a dead woman's letter?
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: The defense needed to aggressively question her mental health, but
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: they couldn't.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: The prosecution argued forfeiture by wrongdoing. The judge ruled that
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Mark forfeited his right by murdering her, allowing the letter.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: In 2008, Mark is convicted. The jury explicitly stated the
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: letter was the most important piece of evidence.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: But years later, a federal district court judge overturns the conviction.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: They rule the letter should not have been admitted.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: So Wisconsin has to retry a decades-old murder case legally
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: barred from using their best evidence.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: We jump forward to 2023. Mark is an old man
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: at the defense table. The prosecution, led by Carly McNeil
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: and Bob Jambo, has to pivot.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Without the letter, they lean heavily into the digital footprints
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: and character witnesses, like Ruth Warwald.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: She testified that Mark was laughing and joking five feet
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: from Julie's open casket at the wake.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: The defense, led by Mackenzie Reiner, goes all in on
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: the suicide theory. They bring in Dr. Sarah West, a
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: forensic psychiatrist.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Dr. West claims Julie was at high risk for suicide,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: pointing to severe sleep problems documented in her medical records.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: But Bob Jambo destroys this theory on cross-examination with one
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: simple question. He asks Dr. West who provided the clinic
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: with that information.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: And Dr. West has to admit it was Mark Jensen.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Mark was the one who called the doctor.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: He was actively planting the seeds of his own alibi,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: artificially creating a paper trail of her depression.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: The jury convicted Mark again. Life without parole. But the
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: aftermath really highlights the sheer collateral damage of these domestic facades.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: It's devastating for their two sons, David and Douglas. They
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: were raised by Mark and Kelly, told their mother abandoned
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: them and committed suicide.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: And later, told she vindictively framed their father. Douglas sent
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: a heartbreaking letter to the judge in 2023.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: He wrote that his mother was systematically erased from his
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: life by his father.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: At sentencing, Mark showed zero remorse. The judge called the
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: crime wicked, cruel, and vengeful.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Both Alex Jackson and Mark Jensen weaponized the sanctity of
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: their homes. They relied on our collective desire to believe
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: in the perfect suburban family.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: They thought they were smarter than the system. But the
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: mechanics of. 22 rifle, the scent profile of fear, and
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: dial-up search history spoke for the victims.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: It shows how meticulous forensic work and relentless legal strategy
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: can pierce even the most carefully constructed illusions.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Which brings me to a final, really provocative thought for
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: you to mull over. Mark Jensen was caught by a
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: dial-up search history in 1998.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: And Alex Jackson was cornered by ring cameras and canine
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: units in 2021. The technological net is tightening exponentially.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: With fully integrated smart homes, Apple Watches tracking our heart rates,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: and ambient listening devices everywhere. Are we entering an era
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: where it will be impossible to stage a crime in
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: your own home?
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: The digital footprint is becoming truly inescapable.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: So the next time you lock your doors to keep
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: the dangerous outside world away, just remember, the house is
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: always watching.