Latest / Journey to the Fringe / We're ranking assholes (part 5 of 5)

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We're ranking assholes (part 5 of 5) · Journey to the Fringe

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From the unexplained to the mundane, come join
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us on a Journey to the Fringe. Hello and welcome
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to Journey to the Fringe. Finally getting to
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what you've all been waiting for this whole time.
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This is the top 10. These are the biggest assholes
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that I personally have seen as we've been going
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through all the different episodes that we've
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done. We had 48 in total and these are the top
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10. So I can understand. I've been waiting five
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years for this. This is our magnum opus. So it's
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all downhill from here. Anyhow, I hope you guys
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still stick around after this just because there's
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probably a good chance that people are just skipping
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to the top 10. I think we should go over the
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scoring system again. So we took every individual
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that we did an episode on or Corporate entity
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in some weird instances or cult entity. I guess
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too. I should add that too. There's no rhyme
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or reason to it really because some are not All
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the major assholes you're looking for are though
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But I also would like to hear if if we have missed
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anybody in our rankings Please let us know who
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you think should be here, but we scored everybody
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on an asshole scale out of 50 This has five different
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categories, each scored out of 10. Deception
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and fabrication, which measures how much the
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person knowingly invents, falsifies, or manipulates
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evidence. Vibes, which is just how asshole the
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person seems from us reviewing their information.
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That was the most elegant way I've heard of you
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putting it. Harm, we're assessing the degree
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of damage they cause, psychological, financial,
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social, or cultural. Grift, focusing on how shamelessly
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they monetize their claims. And legacy, where
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we're evaluating how lasting their influence
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is, whether their nonsense still shapes UFO lore
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or fringe culture today. And I think almost everybody
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in my top 10 cracks what is 40 out of 50, the
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Hall of Shame, the highest level, the... the
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hall of fame for fringe topic assholes. Yes.
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Now I think we should also clarify at this point
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in the list that the top 10 is actually Taylor's
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top 10 list. And we're comparing the other ones
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to Taylor's because I'm just putting together
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right now who is going to be in the top 10 and
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I feel like there is one that I'm going to really
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disagree with at the very least because I can
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see one that hasn't been touched yet. Okay. That
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I do not believe fits in the top 10. And how
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our scoring works too, I... Yeah. There's some...
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There's a few in the top 10 I don't think would
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naturally fit in the top 10, but you'll understand
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when we get to them how the scoring had to get
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there. So to start off the top 10 I have with
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a score of 39 so not quite that Hall of Fame
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level But still pretty damn high Billy Meyer
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still season 4 episode 59 61 and 63 Yeah, I didn't
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have him in the top 10, but he probably should
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be I have him ranked at 35 with a total score
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35 He's at 17 on mine. Okay Meyer is a swiss
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contact, oh you know what I could go for? Some
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like swiss cheese right now. Contactee famous
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for his photographs of alleged alien spacecraft
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and prophecies about humanity's future. His achievement
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is becoming one of the most iconic contactees
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with his story still circulating decades later.
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His asshole actions include staging fake photos,
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some traced to household objects and models.
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and aggressively defending them as real, exploiting
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followers and monetizing his hoaxes through books
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and strict copyright claims. And he did get more
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harm than the average UFO person, I think because
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of the whole cult side of his following with
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Beam. I can see it. See, I think our major difference
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to me is legacy because overall, I don't know
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that the lay person would know anything about
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him or be able to identify his teachings. potentially
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his photos his photos used to be fairly actually
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not mainstream but well -known I think and it's
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also the I want to believe photo for x -files
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potentially I put him fairly low though for that
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I think there's other assholes on our list that
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have a much higher legacy than Billy Mayer and
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I think that's why he got so low that's fair
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and I do think the whole legacy thing just scored
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so high for me because of the cult aspect. So
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he does have a very zealot following with some
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people. Not a huge group, but the ones who do
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follow him are kind of crazy. And it's funny
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how I use legacy because on this one, for instance,
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I'm using it as would the lay person know, but
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on other ones I rank it differently for their
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legacy. It's really, you know, just like, throwing
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shit into the wind. Like, yeah, I don't know
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if people actually know his name, but man, is
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he impactful. Yeah. He did have a pretty crazy
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story, though. And we actually have a really
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hard time remembering Bill Meyer's name, too.
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Yeah, we do. But when you say it, I know exactly
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who he is. Yeah. So, yeah. legacy I could maybe
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bump him up a little bit more but if I was to
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put him in my own ranking of legacy I would score
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him higher because he is higher on my asshole
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list but if I'm thinking as a whole I put him
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lower. Fair enough. Copilot has him at 12th on
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their list at 40. Meyers scores high in Deception
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and Legacy with his fabricated UFO photos in
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Enduring Contact Delore. His grift - Oh, yeah,
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and sorry, that whole thing of the patah talking
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through him, it's just, it's gold. I will always
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love if we ever do episodes where we go back
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to the patah stuff. Oh my god, his like, what
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was it, like a three -day journey where he was
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taking photos of like a literal fucking book?
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and passing them as photos from a fucking spaceship
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is just off the hook insane. Anyhow, I did give
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him a tenon deception if you wanted to know.
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His grift is strong with books and followers,
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and that was that whole thing too. Like you could
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sign up to be like a person who like works for
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the church, but you had to pay for it. That was
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super weird. Yeah, and he does like actually
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live off of like collections. Donations and grifting,
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yeah. His vibes are middling. He was more eccentric
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than toxic He's held back by moderate harm since
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his hoaxes misled but didn't destroy lives Yeah,
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I I would completely agree with that. Okay. Now
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I think you're gonna have this next person hire
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Chelsea, but at number nine I have Prince Andrew
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whose name we know Andrew Mont - Something. Mountain
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Batten. I don't know what the - Mount Batten
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- We know him as regular person Andy or British
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Andy from season 5 episode 100 and many, many
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French minis in between. Originally from like
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so many minis, eventually one episode. With likely
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many more minis in the middle. Where do I have
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him? I have him at... His total is 39, so he
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rests at about 10 on my list actually, so he's
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a tad lower. evading accountability. His legacy
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is now defined less by royal service and more
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by scandals, leaving him remembered as a symbol
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of abuse of power and disgrace within the monarchy.
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See the thing about regular person Andy is even
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if you take Epstein out of the equation, it's
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just the well -knowingness of this and how he
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lied. It wouldn't change the person that he was.
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Just due to the outrage of all of it, like really
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brought it to the forefront. But he still would
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have been a shitty person without Jeffrey Epstein.
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And he's still that spoiled. He's pretentious,
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yeah. He's got that arrogance about him and like
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inept pretentiousness. He doesn't seem to understand
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life itself. I don't know if that's everybody
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within the royal family, but you get those vibes
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from British Andy. Oh, absolutely, and I'm sure
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there's a lot more people like that within the
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royal family, and probably many more royal families.
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They're just probably not as inept as he is.
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And just the sheer, what would you even label
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it as, cockiness of him to go and say he doesn't
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sweat? And just like - I think it's ignorance.
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Like, just, like - It is! People aren't going
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to believe you you're going to sweat in this
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interview you idiots And for him to just think
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I'm gonna say this and they're all just gonna
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accept this is just like it's next level Listen
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to what mother tells them That's exactly it.
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So I just he's a horrible person with or without
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like what has been going on and After reading
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the biography written about him. It's just he's
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a shitty person before he met Jeffrey Epstein
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It was just the circumstance that brought it
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to light that is cursing life It doesn't mean
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that it wasn't always there and I am gonna say
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like I had a hard time with one in particular
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category for him This is the lowest Number I
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gave anybody in the top 10 of any category. He
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got a four for grift It is because he was born
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into sheer wealth and I just don't know how to
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categorize that with grift Okay, my categories
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kind of shift with who it is and here's a good
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example as well as the one that we just talked
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about Griff for me is in the words that he thinks
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that he's using that are going to fool everybody
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And they don't. It could also be the fact that
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like he had his mom wrapped around his finger.
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it seemed like yes and exactly he shouldn't have
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like he's just been shuffled around because no
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one in the royal family wants to fucking deal
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with them but here he is getting kicked out of
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his residence and he's like I still want my fucking
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butler like not going to exist without a butler
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I will be nude all times that will embarrass
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the family so to me the grift is still high it
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just needs to be looked a little bit different
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which Yeah, and that was the whole thing. Like,
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it's hard to categorize that with everybody else
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who's making money off what they're doing, whereas
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he's like, he's exploiting his position of power,
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so there's not inherently a grift. Well, to me
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it's a grift, but I know you're a little bit
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more rigid on your categories, might have a flow,
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but he got the lowest on mine in deception and
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fabrication of all things, because I think he...
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like the only one he's fooling is his fucking
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self he's not fooling anybody else so i i think
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he's fairly like not deceptive in fabricating
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other than i did give him a six in deception
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and fabrication so it's not like he excelled
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in that yeah but he got a ten in vibes and he
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got a ten in harm and a nine in legacy because
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he has absolutely destroyed the british royal
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family Oh yeah, 100%. But not completely for
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some weird reason. I think he could do better
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in absolutely bringing them down. And they know
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it. They know it. Yeah. Copilot has British Andy
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at 15th on their list with a 40. Oh, and sorry,
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Chelsea, what did you score him? I can't remember
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if you said. 39. No, hold on. Is that the right
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guy? it's the right guy 39 okay and British Andy
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with copilot is a solid 40 at 15th with an eight
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nine nine seven seven i didn't hear any six sevens
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nope we don't do those around here do we nope
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don't have any of those okay Chelsea i'm very
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curious where you have this next one on my list
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okay this is at number eight and yeah i this
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is my first 40 so this is like high level assholes
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right now. This one's a little more of an extreme
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good news international church from season three
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episode 64. They're actually at I'm re -evaluating
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my entire life choices right now for putting
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them here. They're 15th on my list, and I do
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not think they should be that low. This is the
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Africa one, right? Yeah, this is the Kenyan.
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Oh, I should read it. Mass exploitation and direct
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harm leading to hundreds of deaths cementing
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it as one of the most tragic cult cases in history
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Yeah, and like at the time of that episode that
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we did it was the second largest mass suicide
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on record behind only the Oh, Jim Jones. What's
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the name of his group? Heaven's Gate, right?
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Heaven's Gate. Yeah. No, no, not Heaven's Gate.
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That one was the comet Anyhow, it's the second
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largest mass suicide by a group in history. Jonestown.
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Jonestown, yeah. And it happened, like, without
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many people ever hearing about it. I need to
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redeem myself right now. Where this downfall
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was getting it on my list here. is legacy. I
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gave it low legacy because who's ever heard of
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this? Fair, nobody remembers it. Everything else
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is high. Yeah, and I gave it an 8 for deception
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and fabrication. It probably could have been
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a little higher. 6 for vibes, I don't know why.
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I find cults hard to give vibes to. 10 for harm.
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Like, you can't say anything below that, and
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frankly it's kind of a little... I have a few
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other 10s in harm, and it's hard to say they're
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all at equal with this. If I had to say like
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a level of 10, this is the highest 10. Like,
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it's hundreds of people that die. Now that you're
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saying that, I feel like all other categories
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can't have harm at a 10. Yeah, I know. And I
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didn't actually - A 9 for grift because that
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guy made a ton of money off it, and I gave a
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7 for legacy just because it is like second biggest
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mass suicide ever. It is. And see, here's the
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thing where we're differing again, is I'm thinking...
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Nobody remembers the name. Nobody knows about
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it. And that's the sad thing about something
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like this. Especially it's Africa. So here in
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North America... Yeah, it's anything going on
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in Africa. There's like genocides going on in
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Sudan right now. Yeah, this one was super sad.
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Yeah, I think this needs to be actually higher
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towards the top. definitely know that I'm looking
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at. But I do stand by the legacy, unfortunately,
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because I don't think anybody knows about it.
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So sadly, while I think it does deserve to be
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closer to the top, it doesn't because of that.
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Legacy is a weird thing when we're talking about
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fringe things and like what kind of legacy are
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we talking about with this? The only thing it
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can be is will this be remembered? And I do think
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it'll be remembered just because it's on a top
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10 list. Yeah, that's true. I think we actually
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could use it. I'm gonna make a note here. I think
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we could use an update on that one because it
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probably... That's a fair point. It's probably
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a lot more settled at this point. Yeah, that
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is one that I didn't need to listen to because
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I remember it pretty well. He was driving like
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super nice cars and stuff. Oh yeah, he was loaded.
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And like all the money came from the church too.
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And like such, like good news international church.
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Like maybe that's where the vibes didn't quite
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hit for me because like when you just hear that
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you're not gonna say like oh yeah, second largest
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mass suicide. Sounds like a cult. And there were
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like mass graves weren't there? Yeah. And I believe
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they were finding people too who like were buried
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alive too. I would have to go back and listen
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to that. Oh god. Yeah. And Good News International
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Church for Copilot came in fourth overall with
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a 44. Only one point behind who came in first.
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Interesting. Nine for deception and fabrication,
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ten for vibes, ten for harm, eight for grift,
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seven for legacy. Okay. I mean that seems fitting
17:48
for where it is on the list. Yeah. I just didn't
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hit there with the numbers for me. Okay. Next
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up on the list is the Fox Sisters. This is the
18:00
one. Number seven. Okay. Why do you have them
18:04
in the top 10? Let's talk about who they are,
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I think. The Fox Sisters are credited with sparking
18:10
the spiritualist movement of the 19th century
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through their spirit -wrapping seances. Their
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achievement was cultural. They helped launch
18:17
a global fascination with mediumship and communication
18:20
with the dead. Their asshole moves were admitting
18:23
later in life that the raps were a hoax, revealing
18:26
that they had exploited grief and curiosity for
18:28
fame and profit. Despite this, their legacy endures
18:31
as the foundation of modern spiritualism. And
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I think that's why, at the end, they ended up
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so high for me. And it's just, I didn't know
18:41
where to dock marks for them. They are consistently
18:44
high. And sorry, Fox Sisters Season 3 Episode
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24. I have them at, their total's 33 in points
18:52
for me. Okay, and we're not that far apart. I
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got them at a 40. Okay, now they're definitely
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not in my top 10 they're at 20 to me Someone
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like HPB should be ranked much higher on the
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asshole list and while they're not Essentially
19:10
the same I would consider them the same category
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with like the spiritualist movement because i
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agree with you on the forefront of that and i
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feel like she was much more of an asshole though
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they were at the forefront of the movement as
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well even more than hpb so that does stand for
19:29
something I just find that her deception and
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fabrication runs while they're both at a 10.
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I find her deception and fabrication runs much,
19:40
much, much deeper than theirs. Okay, and I have
19:44
HPB and the Fox sisters at a nine for deception
19:47
and fabrication. I have a both of them. Okay.
19:52
I actually they're tied a lot of the way. They
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both got sevens for harm. They both got eights
19:59
for grift and HPB got an eight for legacy, whereas
20:03
the Fox sisters got a nine. It's really just
20:05
harm I gave them a higher score for. What? Why?
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I mean, that's a great question. I think they
20:13
had more direct harm on people, like giving them
20:18
hope for the. their loved ones coming back and
20:21
they are so fundamental to the seance movement
20:24
and this entire thing coming about that I think
20:27
they did a little more harm and I also didn't
20:30
know how I actually probably upgraded their marks
20:33
because they later in life sold their grift as
20:37
like oh that entire old life was a grift we're
20:39
gonna make money off of telling everybody about
20:41
it yeah so I think at the end of the day, I just
20:45
told you my scores. I don't think you disagreed
20:48
with anything I said there. No, I don't really
20:50
disagree, no. And they started the seance movement.
20:53
Like, it's got to be up there, like, significantly
20:55
for the legacy. No, you're right. And again,
21:00
it's my thought in my head is who... HPB, I just
21:05
feel like her legacy is so much more grandiose
21:09
because you see it in literally everything. Whereas
21:14
the Fox sisters like yes seance and it is a contain
21:17
grift. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, but you still wouldn't
21:21
have people still do seances to use. Yeah, and
21:23
you still wouldn't have that very popular moment
21:28
in like a call history without the Fox sisters,
21:31
so Maybe they do deserve to be higher But that
21:36
that's why I was shocked cuz I was like HPB should
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be so much higher than the Fox sisters But they
21:41
are total and it is more intentional. I will
21:44
agree with that Yeah, they are total assholes
21:47
though. So I do agree with that So at this point
21:49
we're splitting hairs on how big of an asshole
21:51
we think each of them are But yes, they are total
21:55
assholes, because they absolutely lied, said
21:59
they were lying, then tried to profit off their
22:01
lie, and started - Yeah, it's like a second level
22:05
grift. It's super, like, next level. Like, I
22:10
grifted, and then I grift off of the fact that
22:12
I'm telling people about the grift. Yeah, but
22:15
yeah, this is the one that I was saying when
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we started. I was curious why this one hasn't
22:20
come up yet. They're in the top 10 and it's solely
22:23
on the fact that they're ranking over HPB. Okay.
22:26
And just for reference, I have them 20 on my
22:29
list and I have, I swear to God, if I go over
22:32
this and HPB is higher than them. Yeah, I have
22:36
HPB at 13 and the Fox sisters are at 20. Okay.
22:42
Now Copilot has them at 18th with a 39 overall
22:47
legacy and deception of fabrication both being
22:50
nines and they're sandwiching sevens all the
22:52
way through the middle okay so kind of splitting
22:55
hairs between us there yeah yeah oh yeah absolutely
22:58
i'm very curious where you have this next person
23:04
chelsea at number six i have David Palaitis from
23:09
season four, episodes 34 and 36. Also where we
23:13
got our most controversial comments from. If
23:19
we were to rank comments that one would be number
23:21
one. We had some pretty pissed off, well it was
23:24
one pissed off person. One person who, actually
23:26
it might have been two. Definitely probably a
23:29
fan of David Palaitis looking for some missing
23:33
411 episodes. Politis is a former police officer
23:38
turned author of the Missing 411 series documenting
23:41
mysterious disappearances in national parks.
23:44
His achievement was creating a best -selling
23:47
brand that brought attention to unsolved cases.
23:50
His asshole factor lies in exploiting real tragedies
23:54
by framing them as paranormal mysteries, monetizing
23:57
grief through books, films, and conferences.
24:00
Yeah, and also not wanting to deal with any criticism
24:04
in the least. part or give any answers to anything
24:07
yeah except for like the new stuff where he says
24:10
it was a UFO i have him ranked at number four
24:14
on my list okay i have him overall at a 41 his
24:18
highest mark i gave was a 10 in vibes i never
24:23
used to think this but now whenever i hear him
24:25
i get the worst vibes from him and especially
24:28
hearing his story about his police career and
24:31
how He did a bunch of sketchy things but was
24:35
forced out by coercing celebrities into signing
24:40
autographs for him. Like the stupidest thing
24:44
ever too. Yeah. but like there's that whole thing
24:48
where he was acting as a john and he was super
24:51
good at getting prostitutes arrested it was oh
24:54
man if you haven't heard those episodes go listen
24:57
to those they're wild yeah yeah we also have
25:00
a lot of fun with it so don't mind the laughter
25:02
there will be laughter i don't know if you know
25:04
us or not Yeah, uh, he's definitely a legendary
25:09
asshole around these parts. Right from the beginning,
25:12
like this guy just didn't pick it up getting
25:14
into the missing 411 stuff. He can't take criticism
25:18
in the least bit about his work, present skewed
25:21
information about the cases that he does, the
25:23
grift is high, the deception and fabrication
25:26
is high, as you all know by now, the vibes are
25:29
high, the harm is on the higher side because
25:32
of the families that he's taking advantage of.
25:34
of their grieving families that he's taking advantage
25:38
of. His legacy to me, I didn't put him that high,
25:42
but I would actually put him higher up because
25:46
it is a really, really popular subject. And I
25:49
will admit myself that I like listening to them
25:52
because who doesn't like a mystery, even if he
25:55
is not doing proper research. At the end of the
25:57
day, he is a pretty good storyteller too. Which
25:59
is why he came on Coast to Coast so much and
26:02
why George Norrie loved having him on because
26:04
he didn't have to do anything Yeah, and George
26:06
Norrie is the perfect interviewer for him because
26:09
George Norrie does not fucking push at all And
26:12
yeah, I think we actually almost fully agree
26:14
because my lowest mark for him is legacy The
26:17
reason I gave him a low legacy, which is a seven
26:19
so it's still not bad is because this entire
26:23
411 community is entirely reliant on David Politis.
26:27
If he were to disappear, it would die away fairly
26:29
quickly. Yeah, but I do think that it's super
26:34
popular. So I don't know that it would die away,
26:37
I think. Though it takes a certain, you know
26:41
what's missing from this asshole list? Charisma.
26:44
It takes a certain charisma to get to a point
26:48
to be able to tell the story to bring people
26:51
in. So maybe it would die with them if it's not
26:53
someone that can make a story sound good. It's
26:57
an awkward word to use here, but he hasn't groomed
27:00
somebody to take it over and he hasn't built
27:02
up anybody else to like come into the 411 community.
27:06
He can't do a missing 411 con. which I mean like
27:09
rent out an event center and have like presenters.
27:13
No, David Wilcock would be outside it, but he
27:16
wouldn't be invited in. And the other tie with
27:22
the asshole, like he has ties to other assholes,
27:25
which is Dr. Malbel Ketchum, which he gets by.
27:28
And that's another strange part of him. He does
27:31
this missing 411, but then he's also a Bigfoot
27:33
guy. Yeah, and that's what I referenced in the
27:36
last episode. This is my highest Bigfoot guy.
27:40
Oh, that makes sense. I don't know if we technically
27:43
call him that, but yeah, I mean, because he tried
27:46
to tie everything to Bigfoot. And the Melba connection,
27:51
I have him as my highest Bigfoot guy, but I also
27:53
can see why you wouldn't consider him. His claim
27:55
to fame is not Bigfoot. Yep. And I also just
27:58
want to put right here, season four, episode
28:01
34 and 36. Yes. Fox sisters, season three, episode
28:05
24. We can just delete that if we did it. But
28:07
if not, thank you for doing that. I don't think
28:11
Copilot had him very high. No, they didn't have
28:13
him high at all. They have him 24th on their
28:15
list with a 36. Interesting. A seven, six, seven,
28:19
eight, eight. And let's see. Six, seven. Hey,
28:22
there it is. There is one. No coincidence here.
28:25
Maybe that's why they scored him so low. Because
28:29
six, seven. So, Pallaitis scores high in grift.
28:34
I think so. Pallaitis scores high in grift and
28:37
legacy with his missing 4 -in -1 brand. His deception
28:40
is moderate. He implies mystery rather than fabricating
28:43
outright. See, I think that is worse for deception.
28:47
His vibes are middling, seen as opportunistic
28:50
but not universally disliked. He's held back
28:53
because his harm is indirect, exploiting grief
28:55
but not causing cult -level damage. And that
28:59
is true. He hasn't formed a cult either. Also,
29:02
and just another aside with him, he doesn't sell
29:04
his books on Amazon and they're just ridiculously
29:06
expensive to get, however it is that he was selling
29:09
them. It's true, but they're like even more ridiculously
29:12
high through Amazon, so I'm not sure why he doesn't
29:15
just fucking sell them on Amazon. I know. To
29:18
like take care of that, because he said it on
29:21
every fucking thing, don't buy them through Amazon.
29:23
Yeah, and that's the weird thing, like he has
29:25
to explain it in the interview, so you gotta
29:27
go, and you can't use Amazon. Just fucking sell
29:33
them on Amazon. Everything is on Amazon these
29:36
days. Okay Chelsea, at number five on my list
29:40
I have the Falun Gong. Season four, episode six,
29:45
eight, and ten. So the Falun Gong is a spiritual
29:49
movement blending Qigong with apocalyptic teachings.
29:52
Its achievement is building a global following
29:55
and media presence. Its asshole factor lies in
29:58
exploiting followers, spreading pseudoscience,
30:00
and fostering cult -like loyalty that has caused
30:02
family estrangement and health risks. And this
30:06
is going to be a polarizing one because depending
30:09
on like what are you getting your information
30:11
from is going to greatly change how you view
30:14
this group. I put them at a 10 out of 10 for
30:18
vibes. I'm sorry, I gave them a 42 overall. Where'd
30:21
they fall for you, Chelsea? 30. Which puts them?
30:25
14. Okay. Not too too far off. No, but yeah.
30:29
Not top 10 though. I know and this, I think the
30:32
big difference is they're a 10 out of 10 for
30:34
grift. Like the fact that they, when you hear
30:36
the deceptive practices they use. Oh yeah, I
30:38
got them 10 out of 10 for grift. Yeah. For Shen
30:39
Yong, experienced China before communism. The
30:43
fact that they owned the epoch times, the fact
30:46
that so many people have died because of the
30:49
practices, and the whole deceptive story of why
30:52
they had to leave China, and still there is mystery
30:55
with that, is incredibly interesting. I think
30:58
I scored them after Good News International Church
31:01
because I gave them an 8 for harm, and it's just
31:04
like, after you put a death cult at 10, it's
31:07
hard to say Falun Gong is a 10. Yeah, that's
31:11
true though. So they got an 8. They got a 10
31:14
for vibes. They give me really creepy vibes,
31:16
especially with Shen Yun. Yeah, it's Shen Yun
31:19
that does it for me. 8 out of 10 for deception
31:23
and fabrication, 6 out of 10 for legacy. Yeah,
31:26
I did the same. I don't know where we're differing.
31:30
I got 8, 10, 8, 10, 6. I have them at deception
31:33
a little bit lower. I have them at a 6. Don't
31:37
know why though. I can't tell you the reasoning
31:39
behind that. I think the reason I put their legacy
31:41
at a six, despite the fact that they own so much,
31:44
it is still reliant on one person. And if the
31:49
cult leader dies, I don't know if it would last.
31:53
Yeah, I have the same for legacy. So I think
31:56
it's my deception and fabrication that I scored
31:59
a little lower on. But that's another one where
32:01
I think about it. I'm not sure why I marked them
32:03
so low on that because it's not like they're
32:07
like incredibly honest about some of the things
32:10
yeah and copilot gave them a 41 overall and put
32:13
them a 10th on their list with eights across
32:16
the board except in harm where they got a nine
32:18
and yeah they definitely harm a lot of people
32:20
and they have compounds where they're training
32:22
their dancers but no there's not a lot of evidence
32:25
that they've directly killed anybody but their
32:28
their medical practices are pretty harmful Yeah,
32:31
and they hide a lot of stuff, so... Who knows?
32:35
And yeah, we just don't quite... I don't think
32:37
we'll ever fully know what damage they've done,
32:39
and the fact that they're involved with basically
32:42
Trump at the highest of levels is very disturbing.
32:45
Wait, how? Oh, you'd have to go back and listen,
32:48
but like, he's done speeches at a ton of their
32:50
events. Really? Oh yeah. I mean, that doesn't
32:53
surprise me if they're funding him. Okay, I'm
32:55
gonna go back to season four, episode six, eight,
32:58
and ten. Why not seven? And nine. Those are the
33:02
fringy minis. Oh, okay. Yeah. That makes sense
33:06
when you say it that way. And sorry, I'll just
33:09
take a quick look to see if it gave me a reason
33:11
for why it put Falun Gong where it did. No, it
33:14
looks like they didn't. That's okay, though.
33:16
We'll just move on to the next one. Okay, Chelsea,
33:18
at number four, and I don't think these guys
33:21
are gonna be where they are for you, I have the
33:23
Moonies from season three, episode 11. See, and
33:27
the Moonies? I can't remember them at all. Let
33:30
me read the Moonies. Founded by Sun Myung Moon,
33:34
the church became one of the largest cult movements
33:37
of the 20th century. Its achievement was global
33:40
expansion and political influence. Its asshole
33:44
actions are industrial scale, coercive labor,
33:48
financial exploitation, arranged marriages and
33:51
lifelong harm to members, making it one of the
33:53
worst offenders. Now, I do not remember the Moonies.
33:58
I tried to get through the Japan episodes in
34:01
our little break. I just did not have enough
34:03
time. The Japan episodes are really in -depth
34:07
episodes. Lots of information in them what I
34:11
listened to the moonies didn't come up at least
34:14
not Explicitly to the fact that I knew there
34:17
are the moonies. So to this day I'm still confused
34:20
about the moonies who they are and what they
34:23
do Even though we talk about them a lot and make
34:25
reference to them. I'm very confused So they
34:30
make a lot of money by recruiting people to the
34:34
church and getting them to sign over their estate
34:37
once they die They also marry people off in mass
34:41
marriages that are super weird, but they have
34:43
huge grifts, and they... I gave them a 9 out
34:47
of 10 just because I think the Falun Gong ends
34:49
up... They have more grift going on currently,
34:52
because the Unification Church is slowly getting
34:55
destroyed, at least in Japan, because of the
34:58
rural reason we did those episodes on them. Somebody
35:01
assassinated Shinzo Abe, the previous Prime Minister
35:04
of Japan, due to Shinzo Abe's ties. to the Moonies
35:09
and how they were funding his government for
35:12
a long time. The assassin's mother was recruited
35:16
and exploited by the Moonies and took every penny
35:19
of their family's money. And he's like, I'm going
35:22
to do something about it. He made a shotgun at
35:25
home and he shot the former prime minister of
35:28
Japan. See, and that does sound vaguely familiar
35:31
now. And I didn't get to that point in the Japan
35:33
episodes because there's just so much Japan in
35:36
those episodes. Yeah. Total assholes and how
35:39
are they ranking for you for? Five top five their
35:43
fourth. So top five. Yeah, and I could see it
35:47
eight eight eight nine nine Yeah, and I do like
35:53
this is the thing about taking an average and
35:54
they got the exact same score it's just okay
35:57
they didn't get any tens whereas like the legacy
36:00
of the Falun Gong got a six but like the fact
36:03
that your cult is associated with the death of
36:05
a prime minister you get high legacy for that
36:07
oh that's true could see that and i mean Falun
36:10
Gong has a Shen Yun but the Moonies took like
36:14
over houses and yeah and so yeah Anyhow, I didn't
36:18
go and relisten to that one, that one was all
36:20
based on memory, and I think we had a fairly
36:22
recent - oh, and they do also own a newspaper
36:25
too. That's the weird thing about cults that
36:27
we cover, they end up getting newspapers, they
36:29
own the Washington Times, not the Washington
36:31
Post, which is owned by Jeff Bezos. We did just
36:37
do a mini with the moonies Yeah, about how the
36:40
heiress to the moonies is best friends with like
36:42
the first lady of Japan Yeah, previous first
36:45
lady of Japan and they're like what I just like
36:48
to give my friend money. I'm not bribing her
36:51
And I do think Yes, the Moonies are number one
36:57
on Copilot's list with a 45 overall. They got
37:00
an 8, 9, 10, 9, 9. I am shocked at that one,
37:04
actually. Do they have a reasoning? No, they
37:07
do not. Okay. The one I wanted the most. Yeah.
37:13
One sec, I'll ask really quick. They gave 8 out
37:17
of 10 for deception, the movement was built on
37:19
fabricated theology, claims of Moon's divine
37:21
status. Oh yeah, and that's that super interesting
37:24
thing, like he was in concentration camps in
37:26
Korea, and like, he... There's some really weird
37:29
Jesus vibes from this group, from what I remember.
37:32
They have promises of salvation through mass
37:34
marriages. The deception is systemic. Followers
37:36
were told they were part of a world -saving mission
37:39
while the leadership manipulated doctrine for
37:41
control. Vibes, 9 out of 10, inside the community.
37:44
Vibes were toxic. Members were pressured into
37:46
obedience. Marriages were arranged without consent
37:48
and dissenters were ostracized. Moon himself
37:51
was seen as authoritarian and group's reputation
37:53
in broader society was deeply negative. Harm,
37:56
10 out of 10. Harm is extreme, families torn
37:58
apart, financial ruin from donations, psychological
38:01
damage from indoctrination and exploitation of
38:03
vulnerable recruits. Grift, 9 out of 10. Church
38:06
aggressively monetized faith, extracting money
38:08
through tithes, businesses, and political influence.
38:12
And Legacy, 9. The Unification Church remains
38:14
infamous decades later, with its influence still
38:17
left in politics, business, and fringe religious
38:21
movements. Its legacy is enduring both as a cautionary
38:24
tale of a cult, exploiting, and as a continuing
38:27
organization. Okay, fair enough. I'll accept
38:30
it. It seems to remember it more than us. Yeah,
38:34
that's why I'm just gonna accept that. Okay,
38:39
at number three on this list, I have... The Warrens,
38:44
season one, episode 23, and many references thrown
38:48
out throughout our time with them. Yes, I have
38:52
them in the top ten. I have them at nine, but
38:55
how they came to be at nine, I'm not exactly
38:59
sure. Well, I have them lower on harm. Oh, let's
39:04
let's read about them. Okay, Ed and Lorraine
39:06
Warren became famous as paranormal investigators
39:08
inspiring the Conjuring films. Their achievement
39:11
was building a brand around haunting and demonology,
39:14
cementing themselves in pop culture. Their asshole
39:16
factors lie in fabricating evidence, exploiting
39:18
families' tragedies, and monetizing fear through
39:21
books, lectures, and the Recult Museum. I just,
39:25
there was nowhere really to take away marks for
39:28
them. I gave them 9 out of 10 for deception,
39:31
9 out of 10 for vibes, 7 out of 10 for harm,
39:35
9 out of 10 for grift, 10 out of 10 for legacy.
39:38
Because like, Their name is money making in Hollywood.
39:41
Yes. So they got a 45 over. So they got a 44
39:44
overall. You know, I say 10 for everything, but
39:47
the deception and fabrication is definitely a
39:50
10. You would think that I didn't give them a
39:55
10. I only gave three 10s in deception and fabrication
39:59
overall, and they're not one of them. They got
40:01
a nine though. Yeah, they're just, they're definitely
40:05
top 10 material because they're just such big
40:08
ass. Especially Ed. I think he was a bigger asshole
40:13
than Lorraine. I think she just kind of followed
40:15
along with him. And they just took everybody's
40:19
money. They did. And like anybody who was actually
40:23
involved in these stories, they're left with
40:24
like trauma from it and no money. Despite the
40:28
fact that the Warrens are telling everybody that
40:29
yeah, they got their money, don't worry. the
40:32
grift was a 15 with them and they would just
40:35
show up where they weren't invited just to kind
40:38
of get their name attached to shit and I told
40:43
this was where are they from the Warrens or season
40:46
one episode 23, so they were there early on They
40:50
might have been one of the first assholes we
40:52
did actually No, I don't think they were the
40:54
first but they were up there because they were
40:55
season one Yeah, it was right around the time
40:58
that we were doing HPB HPB was episode 16. So
41:02
like few months before that. Yeah, I think we
41:05
did the Who else? Alistair Crowley came before
41:09
that and Did we get to Edgar Cayce before? No,
41:14
we didn't know because Edgar Cayce came with
41:17
Wilcox season two Yeah, and the Warrens I mean
41:19
the grift is high the asshole vibes are high
41:22
the harm I don't have as high but they are definitely
41:27
exploiting people for stories and not paying
41:30
them and like they inserted themselves in that
41:34
that self -defense lawsuit that we covered at
41:37
halloween this year where they just put themselves
41:40
in there like yeah demons did it you you should
41:42
just run off that get that defense going so we
41:44
can write a novel on it legacy high i just remember
41:50
from them ed like going up to people and being
41:53
like your house is haunted i'm gonna draw it
41:55
and trying to sell people the drawing of them
41:59
And like they just randomly show up like the
42:03
haunted doll these different haunted houses Possessions
42:07
they show up everywhere with completely just
42:09
like we'll make this story up so everybody can
42:12
make money off But it's really just us Co -pilot
42:15
has put the Warrens at number 14 overall with
42:19
a 40 and straight eights right across what overall
42:23
that is 14th overall with okay, okay I think
42:29
they're definitely top 10 material co -pilot.
42:31
Oh, yeah. The legacy is just so much with them.
42:35
Oh, yeah, it is. Legacy and grift. Like, there's
42:38
not many people beating them in either of those
42:40
categories. Yeah. Weirdly enough, though, I do
42:42
think the Warrens have a bigger name outside
42:45
of fringe communities due to Hollywood. Yes,
42:49
absolutely. They're probably of our list the
42:53
most... recognizable, I would go on to say yes
42:58
he's probably the most recognizable actually
43:01
but outside of that they're probably the most
43:04
I'm thinking yeah yeah yeah I'm looking at the
43:06
list really quick here maybe Tom DeLong but even
43:11
then you have to be a very specific age group
43:13
to think that yeah okay now for number two With
43:19
an overall score of 45, I think we might have
43:22
a bit of a fight on this one. I don't know. Richard
43:25
Doty. I think we might. Season two, episode 17
43:30
and 18. You know what? I can't, seeing who now
43:36
is your number one, I can't argue. He is my number
43:40
one. If we can even believe any of this. Dodie's
43:45
notoriety comes from his role as an Air Force
43:50
intelligence officer involved in UFO disinformation
43:53
campaigns. His most notable achievement, if it
43:57
can be called that, was shaping the Paul Bennewitz
44:00
case, which became a cornerstone of UFO conspiracy
44:04
lore. His asshole action was deliberately feeding
44:08
false information to Benowitz, driving him into
44:11
paranoia and psychological collapse. Doty's manipulation
44:15
caused immense harm and left a lasting scar on
44:19
UFO communities. And I will say, Doty got the
44:23
most hands of anybody on my list. He's all 10s
44:26
for me. I couldn't bring myself to do anything
44:29
other than all 10s for Richard Doe because I
44:31
knew he had to be number one. And I just have
44:33
to squeeze in here real quick because these are
44:36
episodes that go down in Journey to the French
44:39
History, season 2, episode 17, 18. Yes, and that
44:42
isn't even taking into account the fact that
44:44
he very likely wrote the Serpo papers. That's
44:48
the general consensus. He also comes up in Skinny
44:51
Bob. Yeah, and just like up in a lot more episodes
44:55
if you're just gonna put on a random UFO documentary
45:00
There's a pretty good shot. He's in it. It's
45:04
true as Not as like on him like Richard Doty
45:10
as a UFO as an expert Weighing in on things telling
45:16
you whether or not you should be taken seriously.
45:18
How the fuck did he get there? I don't know Obviously
45:22
like no holds barred. He's tens all over the
45:25
bar for me He's a 15 out of 10 on vibes for asshole
45:30
I mean, he probably shouldn't be ranked as high
45:33
for Herm, but I couldn't not give him a 10 for
45:35
everything. See, I gave him a 9 out of 10 for
45:39
vibes, and I will tell you it is for two factors.
45:42
He is the most unassuming man. Like, when he's
45:46
just sitting there, he looks like he's sitting
45:48
there waiting for a bus. Like, wants to just
45:51
tell a story to everybody around him. Absolutely.
45:55
Two, I couldn't give him ten for vibes because
45:58
so many people work with him and are willing
46:01
to have him as an expert. But why does that dock
46:06
him vibes? Then to me, it's the history that
46:09
I know that just makes his face so punchable
46:12
to me. Yeah. And then I had to give him a six
46:16
for grift because I don't think he's making that
46:19
much money off it. Most of the stuff he's done,
46:23
he did it for free. No, he's got a pension. He
46:26
worked for the government. Oh, that's true. This
46:29
is a side hustle. And it's not like he's wearing
46:32
swag when he's in these. He's dressed like an
46:35
old man. Can you imagine if he had, like, grills
46:38
and shit? He has a really nice watch. I don't
46:42
know, to me he had to be number one, hence all
46:45
the comments. But like, he doesn't write books,
46:47
he doesn't do his own lectures, he only does
46:51
interviews it seems like when he's asked to do
46:53
it. So I just, I couldn't say he's a heavy grifter
46:58
compared to what I end up with at number one.
47:02
It's true though, because he's a guy, he strikes
47:05
me now as just someone that shows up when he's
47:08
asked to. Yeah. Right? Cause that's what the
47:10
military did. They're like, you gotta do this.
47:13
And he was like, okay. And now they're like -
47:17
And he just likes to write stuff. Like for free.
47:19
He released the Serpo papers. We need an expert.
47:22
And he's like, okay. Okay. I'll be there. You
47:26
can count on me. Maybe he's just a reliable guy.
47:28
Retirement is so boring. Yeah. I hate him. I
47:34
hate that guy. He sucks. He's the number one
47:38
asshole Copilot has Dodie and like I said the
47:44
episode he's in he's in many more than just that
47:47
like he is all over They have him at number eight
47:50
with a nine nine nine six eight six being his
47:54
lowest in grift Okay, so they have him top ten
47:57
and I can live with that Yeah, okay So Dodie
48:00
for copilot scored extremely high on deception
48:03
and harm because he knowingly fed disinformation
48:05
to Paul Benowitz contributing to Benowitz's psychological
48:09
collapse and seeding toxic myths and UFO lore.
48:12
His vibes are near the bottom, he's widely perceived
48:14
as manipulative, duplicitous, and willing to
48:17
throw allies under the bus to advance an agenda.
48:19
He's held back slightly by only moderate grift,
48:22
but his legacy remains strong as a cautionary
48:24
tale of institutional deceit. I think they're
48:27
right on par with that. Something I would add
48:29
to it is he went to very, very great lengths
48:32
to - Oh yeah, nobody came anywhere near that
48:36
level of lengths. Yep. Like he set up fake ventilation
48:40
on the middle of nowhere. Yeah, to show that
48:43
it was an underground base. And he was drugging
48:46
him. Yes! I can't remember exactly where that
48:49
came in, but Benowitz was definitely being drugged.
48:52
And between him and Bill Moore, who knows? And
48:55
John Lear. Oh man, so crazy. I agree with them
48:59
on grift. I agree with you on Griff, but I'm
49:01
not bringing him down. Yeah, there's another
49:04
point I had to make, but I can't remember. That's
49:06
okay. And it might come up because who I put
49:09
at number one has used Richard Doty in the past
49:12
for documentary purposes. Oh yeah, that's what
49:16
I was gonna say. Because they said that he's
49:19
so widely renowned as being like, discredited
49:22
because of this, yet everyone's using him for
49:24
his source. Okay, continue. So at number one,
49:29
the biggest asshole we have ever covered is Richard
49:34
Greer, season four, episode 99 and 101. Stephen
49:38
Greer. Dr. Stephen Greer, yes. Yes, you said
49:43
Richard Greer. Oh, did I? Okay, Dr. Stephen Greer,
49:48
season four, episode 99 and 101. Sorry, I have
49:52
Richard Doty still highlighted for some reason
49:54
on my page. I know that's where you came up with
49:57
it. Yeah. Okay, I can argue with it. I can see
50:00
they're tight. I have him at number three. Okay,
50:03
since sorry, who's your two? Bill Moore. Bill
50:06
Moore, right. Okay. You know what? I'm looking
50:08
at this and I think my top ten could use some
50:13
tweaking. And yeah, I don't know. Maybe we revisit
50:16
our top ten in the future and see if the scoring
50:18
changes. but I think I'm happy with it. But let's
50:22
go through Richard. Let's go through Dr. Steven
50:25
Greer, which you need to emphasize the doctor
50:27
despite the fact it has nothing to do with what
50:29
he's actually doing. Oh, everybody does. As a
50:32
matter of fact, Wilcock has been plugging him
50:35
the last little bit and referring to his work,
50:38
and the doctor has definitely emphasized every
50:41
time that Wilcock is talking about him. And I
50:43
just could not put him at the same level of deception
50:46
and fabrication as Dodie. Dodie went to such
50:49
lengths to deceive, whereas Dr. Greer is a little
50:54
more lazy with his deception. like whenever you
50:57
hear him talk if you just kind of think about
51:00
it for a little while like give it five minutes
51:03
sit on it you'll see it's full of shit yeah like
51:06
oh man so you got a nine out of ten he has the
51:10
creepiest vibes in my mind oh so creepy 10 out
51:13
of 10 oh yeah 10 out of 10 100%. I gave him a
51:18
9 out of 10 for harm. A lot of the stuff that
51:21
he's been putting out there, I think, is doing
51:23
harm to the UFO community. He lies a ton so that
51:27
you can never actually tell what's going on,
51:29
and he puts himself front and center in everything.
51:32
And he will throw people under the bus if they
51:35
don't agree with him. Not to mention that if
51:38
he thinks that you offer, like, the slightest
51:40
bit of anything to him, he's just kinda... Yeah!
51:42
He brought Edgar Mitchell into this whole thing.
51:44
Yeah, but like anyone if he even saw you at a
51:47
dinner party and you offer him anything at all
51:49
He will start using your name yet where you have
51:52
to address it in a letter Where you say you have
51:57
mistaken agreement for my police season for episode
52:01
99 101 He wasn't covered that long ago and then
52:04
we did cover him again in that UFO disclosure
52:07
episode Which I don't know off the top of my
52:10
head And I do think there will be at some time
52:13
in the future a follow -up on Greer, because,
52:16
like, he's prolific in his work. Dr. Greer is
52:20
best known for founding the Disclosure Project
52:22
and popularizing CE5 protocols, which claim to
52:26
allow humans to initiate contact with extraterrestrials.
52:29
His most notable achievement is bringing UFO
52:31
discourse into mainstream media and government
52:34
hearings, positioning himself as a central figure
52:36
in disclosure. His biggest asshole move is monetizing
52:40
these practices, charging steep fees for retreats
52:43
and contact experiences that rely on unverifiable
52:46
claims, effectively exploiting believers while
52:49
presenting speculation as fact. Yeah, I don't
52:52
think anybody alive in the UFO community today
52:55
is a bigger grifter than Stephen Greer with his
52:59
CE5 protocol events. I don't know about that.
53:03
He's charging tens of thousands of dollars. per
53:07
person to go to these, and they just pretend
53:09
to see things in the sky, and apparently sometimes,
53:13
allegedly sometimes, they hire helpers to make
53:16
things happen in the sky. Yeah, that's true,
53:19
but I think there's still some pretty - like
53:21
David Wilcock to me is a similar level of grifter.
53:24
Yes, but he doesn't have access to the same amount
53:27
of monetization ability. It's because of the
53:29
doctor. Yeah, it really is. But like, and - David
53:34
Wilcox in a position where he's sucking up to
53:36
the doctor, where this doctor Steven Greer is
53:39
at the apex of all this. And the only thing I
53:41
gave his lowest marks an eight in legacy for
53:44
me. He just, I don't know if he's going to be
53:47
necessarily remembered for anything or have moved
53:49
anything in a particular direction where you
53:52
can say his name's directly attached to it or
53:55
something he brought forward is going to be important
53:58
in the UFO community. True. I would a hundred
54:01
percent agree with that. but he's incredibly
54:03
deceptive with everything he is everywhere and
54:06
he really likes to put his name along with disclosure
54:08
but funny enough cannot get along with anybody
54:11
else in the disclosure movement he's one of those
54:14
personalities though where he's like so polarizing
54:18
like people actually i think you either like
54:20
them or you don't and i think some people might
54:23
just be going along with it because of like the
54:26
doctor and the yeah He's deceptive with it. The
54:30
clout that comes along with his name for whatever
54:32
fucking reason, I don't know what it is. It's
54:35
probably the doctor. It's important. Yeah, oh
54:38
yeah, for sure. There's a reason he hasn't dropped
54:39
it, despite the fact that it has nothing to do
54:41
with what he's doing. Yeah. And the funny thing
54:44
is, like, he always talks about how he's bringing
54:46
this all forward and it's so important for the
54:48
message, but everything is about him. Oh, listening
54:51
to him talk is just, like, it's insanity, honestly.
54:56
Yeah, so... Copilot has him at not that high
54:59
at all, he's 17th on their list at 39, with 87798.
55:04
So like fairly high across the board, just not
55:06
like standing out anyway. Yeah, and co -pilot
55:09
did favor cults most the top is cults and weirdly
55:13
enough Corey good that one was weird We both
55:15
weren't Corey good fairly low I want to give
55:18
you my top ten and I would redo it But I'm just
55:22
gonna give you my actual list top ten not what
55:24
I would redo it as okay as it stands Richard
55:28
Doty number one Bill Moore number two Stephen
55:31
Greer number three David polites number four
55:35
John Lear number five Preston Nichols number
55:38
six, Montauk. Stan Romanuk came at number seven.
55:44
Seven. Number eight I have Rick Dyer. I have
55:47
at nine the Warrens and regular person Andy at
55:51
number ten. Okay and co -pilot at number one
55:55
they have the Moonies. At number two they have
55:58
Corey Good. At number three they have Romana
56:01
Dadula. At four they have good news international
56:04
church at number five they have stan romanek
56:07
at seven at six sorry i keep looking because
56:10
it's the the numbers don't quite i know with
56:12
the numbers on the left i know yeah at number
56:15
six they have alistair crowley at number eight
56:19
no at number seven they have pinkertons at number
56:23
eight they have richard doty at number nine they
56:26
have hpb and number 10 finishing off their top
56:29
10 is the phalangong interesting list Yeah, and
56:33
that was a long winding journey and I am very
56:37
curious what you guys, the listeners, think of
56:41
this. Yeah, who do you guys have at number one?
56:44
Who do you have at number one? Who were we way
56:46
off on? And who did we miss? I really want to
56:50
know. Cuz I know I've missed a few people but
56:55
I think I got everybody for the most part I know
56:59
one that we're missing that I don't disagree
57:03
him not being on here is John keel because we
57:05
haven't actually Covered John keel John keel
57:08
is on here. What? Yeah. Really? Yeah No, oh did
57:15
we not okay damn but we didn't actually episodes
57:18
on John keel. We didn't actually cover John keel
57:21
though Okay. Right, we just covered the one or
57:23
two books. Yeah. So if you wanted to be technical,
57:26
you could say John Keel, but we have an access
57:29
to him. Copilot has him on their list. That's
57:31
why it's been messed up. Okay. Yeah, I don't
57:34
disagree with not having him on there. Okay.
57:37
And as we talked about prior to the list, we
57:40
took out the corporations just because we thought
57:42
that would be really weird for the most part.
57:44
Like we couldn't include Chevron or that law
57:47
firm in Panama or Boeing. because it's just an
57:51
inherently different kind of assholeness. And
57:53
I think we could agree that corporations are
57:55
just overall a number one on the asshole scale.
57:59
Yeah. So yeah, you can't do that. Yeah, you can't.
58:03
Anyhow, that's been a long going. So I think
58:07
we just made it two episodes. Yeah. But here
58:11
we are, end of January or February. Who knows?
58:14
Who knows when it is now? What even time is this?
58:18
Yes. With that, I have been Taylor, here with
58:21
Chelsea. We are Journey to the Fringe. Thank
58:23
you all for listening and we'll see you next
58:24
week. Bye. Thank you for listening to Journey
58:35
to the Fringe. If you have liked what you have
58:37
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59:09
For now, I'll see you in the next episode.