Transcript

Sharri | 29 May · Sharri

0:01
Speaker 1: Live on Sky News. This is Sharry.
0:07
Speaker 2: Good Evening Tonight our exclusive on how Susan Lee ghosted
0:11
Speaker 2: Jane Hume for days in the lead up to her
0:14
Speaker 2: ruthless dumping. I'll tell you about their phone call just
0:18
Speaker 2: ninety minutes before the press conference.
0:20
Speaker 3: More details in a minute.
0:22
Speaker 2: Paul Keating is set to launch a campaign against Jim
0:25
Speaker 2: Chalmers taxon unrealized capital gains. Robert gott Liebsen has that
0:29
Speaker 2: scoop and he'll join meet tonight. Israeli President Isaac Hertzog
0:33
Speaker 2: implause Alban easy to actually visit Israel and see for
0:37
Speaker 2: himself what's going on. Chris Kenny met with Herzog today
0:41
Speaker 2: and he'll be on the show live.
0:44
Speaker 4: Plus.
0:44
Speaker 2: Matt Canavan kickstarts his campaign against Net zero.
0:48
Speaker 3: He'll be here to explain why.
0:51
Speaker 2: But first tonight I can reveal that Liberal leader Susan
0:54
Speaker 2: Lee ghosted Jane Hume for days, ignoring her texts and
0:59
Speaker 2: phone calls, before finally telling her she'd been dumped just
1:03
Speaker 2: ninety minutes before announcing her shadow cabinet Sauces close to
1:07
Speaker 2: Senator Hume told me that multiple texts and phone calls
1:11
Speaker 2: to Susan Lee went unanswered.
1:14
Speaker 3: This for several days while Lee was formulating her front
1:18
Speaker 3: bench team.
1:19
Speaker 2: Susan then finally rang Jane Hume and told her there
1:23
Speaker 2: was no role for her. This was an hour and
1:26
Speaker 2: a half before she fronted the press. The source told
1:29
Speaker 2: me it was completely ruthless. We've gone from people talking
1:34
Speaker 2: about Susan facing a glass cliff to now watching her
1:38
Speaker 2: pull up the ladder behind her to ensure no woman
1:41
Speaker 2: can follow in her footsteps. Either Susan thinks a woman's
1:45
Speaker 2: place isn't in the cabinet, or she doesn't like dealing
1:49
Speaker 2: with strong women. Pretty cutting comments there now, Jane Hume
1:56
Speaker 2: isn't the only senior coalition figure who was given the
1:59
Speaker 2: cold shoulder.
2:00
Speaker 3: Susan Lee also did not respond.
2:03
Speaker 2: To an approach from Senator Claire Chandler, who sent a
2:06
Speaker 2: text message saying that she'd like to continue serving in
2:10
Speaker 2: a senior position in the shadow cabinet.
2:13
Speaker 3: There was no reply.
2:15
Speaker 2: Today, Susan Lee doubled down on her decision to dump
2:18
Speaker 2: or demote four of the most senior coalition women, and
2:23
Speaker 2: when asked about this today, she said she was promoting
2:26
Speaker 2: women who were younger in terms of political experience. Have
2:31
Speaker 2: a look at that strange remark.
2:34
Speaker 5: Of course, Pete, I want to see more women, more
2:36
Speaker 5: women come into our party, and I was able to
2:38
Speaker 5: announce women who are younger in terms of their political career,
2:42
Speaker 5: and I know that they're going to do very well too.
2:46
Speaker 2: Younger in terms of their political career. Younger is a
2:49
Speaker 2: word you only use in.
2:51
Speaker 3: Relation to age.
2:53
Speaker 2: So perhaps she was about to say that she was
2:55
Speaker 2: promoting younger women and realized that wouldn't be a good look.
2:59
Speaker 2: It would be be agist and would reinforce a sexist,
3:03
Speaker 2: outdated view that women have no value to society if
3:07
Speaker 2: they're too old. Now, Sarah Henderson is sixty one, Jane
3:11
Speaker 2: Hume in her fifties declared Chandler is thirty seven, just
3:15
Speaker 2: Enter Price forty four, and their.
3:17
Speaker 3: Ages are irrelevant.
3:20
Speaker 2: They are among the most high profile and high performing
3:24
Speaker 2: coalition women. When Parliament returns, it'll be an embarrassing site
3:29
Speaker 2: to see these talented women relegated to the backbench instead.
3:34
Speaker 2: Susan Lee has leapfrogged the likes of Giselle Captirian, who
3:38
Speaker 2: is only three votes ahead of Teal Nicolette Bowl in
3:41
Speaker 2: the recount. She might not even get into parliament if
3:45
Speaker 2: she does, she'll be on the front bench, but of
3:48
Speaker 2: course she poses no threat to Susan Lee. This shadow
3:52
Speaker 2: cabinet undoes the efforts to rebrown the Liberal Party as
3:56
Speaker 2: modern with a Liberal leader. And you couple this with
4:00
Speaker 2: giving the overqualified Dave Sharma a junior assistant Ministry position
4:07
Speaker 2: when he probably should have been in Foreign Affairs. As
4:10
Speaker 2: Peter Kredlin said last night, it's like leaving your best
4:13
Speaker 2: players in the change room.
4:16
Speaker 6: I just don't think you take on an empowered and
4:19
Speaker 6: dominant labor party by leaving some of your best talent
4:23
Speaker 6: in the change room and giving the factional bobber boys
4:26
Speaker 6: are reward.
4:28
Speaker 3: And She's right.
4:30
Speaker 2: While there are a few good appointments, this is at
4:33
Speaker 2: best a meteorocre team. It's shocking to think that Susan
4:37
Speaker 2: Lee's shadow cabinet now has fewer women than either Scott
4:41
Speaker 2: Morrison's or Peter Dutton's had. Dutton had ten women in
4:45
Speaker 2: his shadow cabinet and Morrison had eight, the same number
4:49
Speaker 2: Lee now has, and only a third of Lee's shadow
4:53
Speaker 2: cabinet are women. This is despite the fact she's often
4:56
Speaker 2: publicly argued for years that we need more women in
5:00
Speaker 2: Parliament and in senior positions. Take a look at some
5:04
Speaker 2: of those comments.
5:06
Speaker 7: I want to say right here and now, we need
5:08
Speaker 7: more women in our party. We need more women in
5:10
Speaker 7: our party organization, We need more women in.
5:12
Speaker 3: This party room.
5:13
Speaker 7: As I said quite some time ago, I do want
5:16
Speaker 7: to see a fifty percent target for women. We need
5:18
Speaker 7: a fifty percent target by twenty twenty five. That's my view.
5:22
Speaker 7: And how we get there, of course, will vary where
5:25
Speaker 7: you encourage young women to get into the party, where
5:27
Speaker 7: you mentor them successfully, where you give them a platform
5:32
Speaker 7: to talk about their ideas which might not be your ideas,
5:35
Speaker 7: and you have a system that really strongly supports them.
5:39
Speaker 2: So the woman who argued for a fifty percent target
5:43
Speaker 2: now has only a third of her shadow cabinet being women.
5:48
Speaker 2: This is a case of clear hypocrisy. Now that she's
5:52
Speaker 2: in a position to elevate more women. Instead, she dumped
5:55
Speaker 2: or demoted for and has presided over the lowest number
5:58
Speaker 2: of women in cabinet or shaw cabinet for the Liberal
6:01
Speaker 2: Party since twenty nineteen.
6:03
Speaker 3: And by was she hammered on this today?
6:06
Speaker 8: Yeah, let's look at your team. You demotioned senior women,
6:10
Speaker 8: Hume Henderson Price, Why was that a good idea given that,
6:16
Speaker 8: as you know, your party has problems with women. Let's
6:19
Speaker 8: move to some of the decisions you've made on that
6:21
Speaker 8: shadow cabinet for a party that's trying to rebrand itself
6:24
Speaker 8: with Australian women, why so few women in the shadow cabinet.
6:30
Speaker 5: Look, forty percent of my shadow ministry is made up
6:32
Speaker 5: of women, and across that party were more broad as
6:35
Speaker 5: many as under plays.
6:37
Speaker 2: Not as many under the former leader cut So that
6:40
Speaker 2: was on Channel seven and the ABC and she didn't
6:43
Speaker 2: have a better time over on Channel nine.
6:47
Speaker 9: You need to win back women as well, they said
6:49
Speaker 9: Peter Dutton had a problem with female voters. But now
6:51
Speaker 9: you've deliberately reduced the number of women in shadow cabinet.
6:58
Speaker 3: Of my shadow ministry are women.
6:59
Speaker 5: Of course, I want to see more women in our
7:01
Speaker 5: party room every single day and.
7:03
Speaker 10: Reduced me as leader.
7:05
Speaker 3: That does well, Carl, as a woman leader.
7:09
Speaker 5: That sends a signal to women.
7:10
Speaker 9: You champion for more women in parliament, you championed more
7:13
Speaker 9: in cabinet, but at the first chance you promoted men
7:17
Speaker 9: and dumped women. How is that anything other than personal?
7:21
Speaker 5: That's commentary, Karl, and it's simply not.
7:23
Speaker 7: How I see it.
7:24
Speaker 5: As I said, Shadow Ministry.
7:27
Speaker 1: It's great women.
7:29
Speaker 3: He did a good job there. Karl Stefanovic.
7:32
Speaker 2: Now Susan Leoso told Paul Murray last night that just
7:35
Speaker 2: sent to Nampa, jimper Price was very happy with her
7:38
Speaker 2: demotion to shadow Cabinet.
7:41
Speaker 5: I spoke to her before this appointment, Paul. She's very
7:44
Speaker 5: pleased to take it on.
7:46
Speaker 3: Pleased.
7:47
Speaker 2: I mean that's taking spin to the next level, because
7:50
Speaker 2: three hours earlier, Ja told Peter Kredlin that actually she
7:54
Speaker 2: was very disappointed and that the shadow cabinet team wasn't
7:58
Speaker 2: appointed based on Marria at all.
8:02
Speaker 11: I'll be honest to say that there are probably some
8:05
Speaker 11: appointments that have not been predicated on.
8:10
Speaker 1: Experience or merit.
8:12
Speaker 11: But this is what this is the team we have
8:15
Speaker 11: to work with, that we're working.
8:16
Speaker 3: With going forward.
8:18
Speaker 11: And you know, I mean, I'm not going to lie
8:21
Speaker 11: and say that I'm not disappointed that I'm not within
8:24
Speaker 11: cabinet itself.
8:27
Speaker 2: And this is the problem with politicians like Susan Lee.
8:31
Speaker 2: Center gave an honest answer she's disappointed with the demotion,
8:35
Speaker 2: as she should be, and instead of Acknowledgingcenter's public position,
8:40
Speaker 2: Susan Lee lies and insists Center's very happy and a
8:46
Speaker 2: politician junior to Center, Kerry Anne Little, has now been
8:49
Speaker 2: promoted to shadow Cabinet. So the message it sends is
8:52
Speaker 2: that Jacenter, one of the top performers in the coalition,
8:56
Speaker 2: is not valued by Susan Lee.
8:59
Speaker 3: It sends the message that.
9:00
Speaker 2: Talent and merit are not the key drivers of this
9:04
Speaker 2: shadow cabinet team. And those involved behind the scenes in
9:08
Speaker 2: this shadow cabinet include Alex Hawk, who was Scott Morrison's
9:13
Speaker 2: numbers man, also Lee's chief of staff, Dean Shakha, and
9:17
Speaker 2: I'm told Susan also sought advice from Scott Morrison.
9:22
Speaker 3: Now I put all.
9:23
Speaker 2: Of this and I've reported here to Susan Lee's office,
9:26
Speaker 2: and her spokesman told me tonight that the Opposition leader
9:30
Speaker 2: has spoken with every single one of her parliamentary colleagues
9:33
Speaker 2: several times since the election resulted.
9:35
Speaker 3: Prior to the.
9:36
Speaker 2: Announcement of the shadow ministry. The leader has announced a
9:40
Speaker 2: team with enormous talent and as she said this morning,
9:42
Speaker 2: every member of the party room has an important role
9:44
Speaker 2: to play. Suggestions that there were voices in the room
9:48
Speaker 2: trying to influence.
9:49
Speaker 3: Decisions are wrong.
9:52
Speaker 2: Now clearly Susan Lee has created even more enemies than
9:56
Speaker 2: she had before with this shadow cabinet, and that's before
10:00
Speaker 2: she's been tested against the ruthless Albanese government. Deputy leader
10:06
Speaker 2: Ted O'Bryan has been making phone calls to try and
10:08
Speaker 2: calm everyone down, but it's not working because right now
10:13
Speaker 2: Susan Lee only has the support of half the party.
10:18
Speaker 2: Three people who I believe to have voted for her,
10:21
Speaker 2: like my friend Holly Hughes, are no longer in the
10:24
Speaker 2: party room. They've left politics, yet they participated in the
10:28
Speaker 2: leadership ballot. Now, internally, I can tell you that coalition
10:32
Speaker 2: figures are discussing how long Lee will last. Some say
10:36
Speaker 2: some estimate that she has between six and eighteen months
10:40
Speaker 2: as leader.
10:41
Speaker 3: The clock is ticking now.
10:43
Speaker 2: She could have used this shadow cabinet to unite the party. Instead,
10:49
Speaker 2: she's given power to factional players devoid of talent, and
10:53
Speaker 2: in doing so has only succeeded in driving a deep
10:57
Speaker 2: wedge through the coalition. Now we've been speaking a lot
11:03
Speaker 2: about how farmers and other Australians may have to sell
11:06
Speaker 2: property or assets to pay their tax bill as a
11:10
Speaker 2: result of Labour's new supertax, and it's not just the supertax,
11:14
Speaker 2: which starts in July with a thirty percent tax rate
11:17
Speaker 2: on earnings above three million in a superfund, but it's
11:20
Speaker 2: also this unprecedented tax on unrealized capital gains above three million.
11:26
Speaker 3: That's profit that you.
11:27
Speaker 2: Haven't made yet and could apply if the value of
11:31
Speaker 2: your property goes up. As we know, the market goes
11:34
Speaker 2: up and down, valuations go up and down. The National
11:37
Speaker 2: Farmers Federation are warning that many farmers won't be able to.
11:41
Speaker 3: Pay the increased tax bill.
11:43
Speaker 2: If you were watching last night, you would have seen
11:45
Speaker 2: David Johinkey saying this.
11:48
Speaker 12: And if it was a applied buck it is proposed
11:50
Speaker 12: to be at the start of the financial year.
11:54
Speaker 1: Partments would have to stump up.
11:56
Speaker 12: An increase that they have no ability to pay and
12:00
Speaker 12: essentially would put their farm at risk.
12:02
Speaker 3: Put their farm at risk.
12:03
Speaker 2: So do you think that there will be farms that
12:06
Speaker 2: will have to be sold over this businesses that will
12:10
Speaker 2: go under farming businesses?
12:12
Speaker 1: Well, I have to find money somewhere.
12:16
Speaker 12: Now.
12:16
Speaker 2: The figure show that seventeen thousand super accounts hold farmland.
12:20
Speaker 2: Three and a half thousand of those have more than
12:22
Speaker 2: three million dollars as if life wasn't hard enough already
12:26
Speaker 2: for our farmers, with this cost of living crisis, with
12:29
Speaker 2: weather fluctuations, and now they're worried about having to sell
12:33
Speaker 2: up to meet a tax liability on increased land valuations.
12:38
Speaker 2: I mean, it's insane and quite frankly unethical.
12:42
Speaker 3: Yet look at how heartless.
12:44
Speaker 2: And cold the Herald's economics writer Ross Gittens is. He
12:48
Speaker 2: doesn't feel sorry for these farmers. He says, the old
12:52
Speaker 2: earn more than the young, find it easier to save
12:56
Speaker 2: and get the benefit from super sooner than the young.
13:00
Speaker 3: I mean, what is that nonsense?
13:02
Speaker 2: The old find it easier to save, and oh it's
13:05
Speaker 2: so unfair that they get the benefit from super sooner. Well,
13:08
Speaker 2: they had to wait to access their superannuation. They lived
13:12
Speaker 2: and worked those long years. But it gets worse, he writes,
13:19
Speaker 2: These rich people just don't want to pay more tax,
13:22
Speaker 2: and as usual, are hunting around for the best counter
13:25
Speaker 2: arguments they can find. He says, I can afford to
13:29
Speaker 2: pay it, and so can they. I mean, that's a
13:32
Speaker 2: ludicrous takers. One economist said to me today he urgently
13:36
Speaker 2: needs to retire. Well, let's turn to someone who actually
13:40
Speaker 2: knows what he's talking about. Veteran business columnist Robert gott
13:43
Speaker 2: leaps It. He's written at length about this topic in
13:46
Speaker 2: The Australian, reporting that Jim Chalmers is set to be
13:50
Speaker 2: remembered as the Treasurer who's unrealized capital gains tax destroyed
13:55
Speaker 2: the historic nineteen ninety two universal superannuation vision of Paul Keating.
14:02
Speaker 2: Keating must know that aspiring Australians, mostly in self managed funds,
14:07
Speaker 2: will exit superannuation rather than pay tax on unrealized gains. Accordingly,
14:14
Speaker 2: a third of Superannuation will exit, leaving it as a
14:18
Speaker 2: lower to middle income Australian movement. And now we hear
14:24
Speaker 2: that Paul Keating is reportedly furious about the idea of
14:28
Speaker 2: taxing unrealized capital gains got leaps, and reports that both
14:33
Speaker 2: Paul Keating and Bill Kelty are preparing to publicly blast
14:38
Speaker 2: the Alberteazy government over this. Industry funds have told got
14:43
Speaker 2: Leaps and that Keating is white hot with anger, and
14:47
Speaker 2: Robert wrote a number of those funds now believe, as
14:51
Speaker 2: a result of receiving an ear full of that Keating anger,
14:55
Speaker 2: that in due course the former Prime Minister and Treasurer
14:58
Speaker 2: will go public with a withering blast against Charmers more
15:03
Speaker 2: intense than any ever directed to a Cabinet minister. Keating
15:08
Speaker 2: will be backed with more moderate language by Bill Kelty,
15:11
Speaker 2: who in nineteen ninety two brought the Union movement into
15:14
Speaker 2: the Keating vision that Charmers is now set to destroy.
15:20
Speaker 2: This will be big if Keating and Kelty are preparing
15:23
Speaker 2: to wage war on the Albanezy government's plans to tax
15:27
Speaker 2: unrealized capital gains, and let's hope they do, because it's
15:31
Speaker 2: unlikely Susan Lee will be able to stop Jim Charmers.
15:35
Speaker 2: It would be like being flogged with a warm lettuce
15:38
Speaker 2: or being moored by a dead sheep.
15:40
Speaker 3: As Keating would say, I was.
15:43
Speaker 13: Like being flogged with a warm letters a blog with
15:46
Speaker 13: a warm letters.
15:47
Speaker 14: Has he got up? You know?
15:49
Speaker 9: More mold by a dead shape, more by a dead shape.
15:54
Speaker 2: Biting criticisms from the father of superannuation against this would
15:58
Speaker 2: be highly effective. Whether it will be enough to encourage
16:02
Speaker 2: Labor to back down on their contentious policy is yet
16:06
Speaker 2: to be seen, and Robert gott Leibsen will be on
16:12
Speaker 2: the show later on to speak about this. But now
16:14
Speaker 2: let's bring in National Senator Matt Canavan and Chief economist
16:17
Speaker 2: at the Institute of Public Affairs, Adam Crichton.
16:20
Speaker 3: Welcome to you both. Look, I want to start with
16:23
Speaker 3: the shadow cabinet now. We're going to get to net
16:26
Speaker 3: zero in a moment.
16:27
Speaker 4: Matt.
16:27
Speaker 2: But Matt, you ran against David little Crowd for leader
16:31
Speaker 2: and you've chosen not to be in shadow cabinet. But
16:35
Speaker 2: your friend Barnaby Joyce, your colleague Michael McCormack, were dumped.
16:39
Speaker 2: That's not the best decision to have experienced former leaders
16:43
Speaker 2: to leave them on the back bench.
16:45
Speaker 12: Is it. Yeah, Look, Sharry, I'm probably going to disappoint you.
16:50
Speaker 12: I just don't really care too much about who's who
16:53
Speaker 12: in the zoo.
16:54
Speaker 1: It's never knows who in the zoo.
16:57
Speaker 2: It's putting forward the best coalition teams so that they
17:00
Speaker 2: can win against out in the Albanize. He surely, Matt,
17:03
Speaker 2: you care about kicking the Albanezy government out and you
17:07
Speaker 2: need your best team.
17:08
Speaker 12: I do do that. I do care about that. I
17:10
Speaker 12: do care about that show. But just on that point,
17:12
Speaker 12: as a general rule, I'm just not so sure that
17:14
Speaker 12: the lineup of the Shadow Cabinet makes that much difference. So,
17:19
Speaker 12: I mean every parliamentary and all of us have the
17:21
Speaker 12: ability to hold an executive governor account in the Senate
17:24
Speaker 12: or the House of Reps and through committee processes whatever
17:26
Speaker 12: we are in. I mean, one of the more effective
17:29
Speaker 12: campaigns I ever saw against an elected government was by
17:32
Speaker 12: Tim Wilson, a colleague of mine, give him his due.
17:35
Speaker 1: Against the franking credits.
17:36
Speaker 12: Now, Tim wasn't a member of the Shadow Ministry when
17:40
Speaker 12: he did that work and took down effectively or at least
17:44
Speaker 12: a big part of the government on that issue. And
17:46
Speaker 12: so I just think all of us could focus a
17:48
Speaker 12: little bit more about that job. That's our first job,
17:51
Speaker 12: to oppose the government in the parliament. It actually doesn't
17:53
Speaker 12: matter too much. Yeah, look, the leaders matter that sort
17:56
Speaker 12: of stuff, but you know that's being done now. I
17:58
Speaker 12: support both leaders making the best best deal this they can.
18:02
Speaker 12: But yeah, who's in every particular portfolio. I'm not sure
18:06
Speaker 12: it's going to make that much different at the election
18:07
Speaker 12: in a fears.
18:08
Speaker 2: Time, Adam, would you agree that there are a lot
18:11
Speaker 2: of talented players left on the backbench that this shadow
18:15
Speaker 2: cabinet hasn't been appointed based on merit in some cases?
18:22
Speaker 15: Well, look, Showy, I think I'll probably disappoint you as well.
18:24
Speaker 15: I mean, I think you're being slightly harsh on Susan Lee.
18:27
Speaker 15: I mean, she's just appointed the people that she thinks
18:29
Speaker 15: will maximize her time in the job, like any leader does,
18:32
Speaker 15: whether they're Prime Minister or Leader of the Opposition.
18:35
Speaker 4: She's done that.
18:36
Speaker 15: Look, I agree it's somewhat amusing that the number of
18:38
Speaker 15: women has dropped from eleven to eight in the Shadow
18:42
Speaker 15: ministry because of course we're always you're listening to always
18:44
Speaker 15: talk about well, we always hear all this talk about
18:47
Speaker 15: the importance of women, but of course, in reality it's
18:49
Speaker 15: just rhetoric, you know, I mean, neither side actually believes
18:52
Speaker 15: in it. One vote is one vote, whether you're male
18:55
Speaker 15: or female, and that's what informs the decisions of both
18:58
Speaker 15: the Prime Minister and the leader of the position. So look,
19:01
Speaker 15: there are some you know, there's lots of talented people
19:03
Speaker 15: in the Parliament, and you know, I want the opposition
19:08
Speaker 15: to be a functioning and effective opposition, so I wish
19:11
Speaker 15: Susan Lee, well, look, let's let's just wait and see
19:15
Speaker 15: what happens. Right, there's there's there's always fallouts. I mean,
19:18
Speaker 15: Tony Abbitt famously said that you know, every time there's
19:20
Speaker 15: a reshuffle, you make more enemies than you make friends.
19:23
Speaker 15: But you know, but she had to appoint a new
19:25
Speaker 15: shadow ministry, and she had to appoint one with her preferences,
19:29
Speaker 15: and that's that's what's happened. So let's let's just judge
19:32
Speaker 15: her by that kind.
19:34
Speaker 2: Of bothers me that not many men are coming out
19:36
Speaker 2: against the fact that for senior four of the most
19:39
Speaker 2: senior coalition women have been dumped.
19:41
Speaker 3: Matt, surely you have a view on that.
19:46
Speaker 12: Well, look, I want a shadow ministry based on merit.
19:51
Speaker 1: Look what I would say.
19:52
Speaker 12: About some of my female colleagues is they definitely have
19:56
Speaker 12: done I think a very good job. I mean, Sarah
19:58
Speaker 12: Henderson did a great job as Education spokesperson. But look,
20:02
Speaker 12: some people have to be appointed and sometimes some people
20:04
Speaker 12: will miss out. There are talented people right across the
20:06
Speaker 12: Liberal and National parties, So I do do feel for Sarah,
20:10
Speaker 12: for Claire, for Jane. All of contributed enormously to our
20:14
Speaker 12: party in the last few years. But they'll continue to contribute.
20:18
Speaker 12: And I've been in contact with all of them today
20:20
Speaker 12: and said, hey, you like on the backbenchain, too bad?
20:23
Speaker 1: You can have lots of fun and still achieve a lot.
20:25
Speaker 12: I feel like I've achieved a lot of the last
20:26
Speaker 12: few years as a Senator for Queensland, so it's a
20:29
Speaker 12: great honor to have this role. It's a yes, an
20:31
Speaker 12: even greater honor sometimes to be in a ministerial role.
20:34
Speaker 12: But let's be real here. We've got thumped at the
20:35
Speaker 12: election and we're talking about shadow ministers not ministers, so
20:38
Speaker 12: there's a big, big difference.
20:40
Speaker 2: It's a big difference, of course, But the issue is
20:43
Speaker 2: you need the absolute top fighting coalition team to have
20:47
Speaker 2: even a chance at cloring back the thirty plus seats
20:51
Speaker 2: that is ahead of the coalition to try and regain
20:53
Speaker 2: the ability to govern, and that's not going to happen
20:55
Speaker 2: with the current team. Right, Let's turn to net zero
20:59
Speaker 2: because I know you're desperate to speak about that, Matt.
21:01
Speaker 2: Now there are liberals speaking out saying that net zero
21:05
Speaker 2: needs to be kept. Zoe mackenzie is one of them,
21:09
Speaker 2: which Barnaby Joyce then on with Antrew Bolt argued against.
21:12
Speaker 3: Have a look.
21:13
Speaker 16: I am personally optimistic that we will continue to observe
21:17
Speaker 16: the net zero goal. It is important for an electorate
21:21
Speaker 16: like mine where environment is very highly valued. But more
21:24
Speaker 16: importantly it's very important in the minds of the people.
21:27
Speaker 16: In Australia's metropolitan seats. There are eighty eight of them,
21:31
Speaker 16: and my side of politics only now holds eight.
21:34
Speaker 13: If you ever are questioned them, you know you're abhorrent.
21:38
Speaker 13: You know you want the kidding sinstantaneously combus. It's guarded
21:42
Speaker 13: in guilt and we suck this rubbish up and we
21:46
Speaker 13: should be turning around saying no, no, do net zero.
21:51
Speaker 3: Adam.
21:51
Speaker 2: This is clearly going to divide the Liberal Party and
21:55
Speaker 2: potentially the coalition.
21:58
Speaker 15: Yes, look but I think I think if the Coalition
22:00
Speaker 15: opposes it, they're just going to be getting ahead of
22:02
Speaker 15: public opinion. I know net zero is still popular because
22:05
Speaker 15: most people think it means pollution, but of course it's
22:08
Speaker 15: got nothing to do with pollution.
22:09
Speaker 4: It's a great slogan net zero.
22:11
Speaker 15: But as energy prices keep rising ten percent year after
22:14
Speaker 15: year after year, I think more people are going to
22:16
Speaker 15: realize that it is because of the changes in the
22:20
Speaker 15: energy market that the government is leading, so you know,
22:23
Speaker 15: and it's I mean, you look at New Zealand, you
22:26
Speaker 15: look at the UK Tories, you look at Northern Territs
22:28
Speaker 15: in Queensland, you look at the US and China and India,
22:31
Speaker 15: I mean, all these jurisdictions are really not paying any
22:33
Speaker 15: attention to net zero, and it's just somewhat laughable that Australia,
22:36
Speaker 15: you know, such a small economy relative to the rest
22:38
Speaker 15: of the world, you know, so few carbon emissions are
22:41
Speaker 15: relative to the rest of the world, is going to
22:43
Speaker 15: destroy its economy to pursue net zero.
22:46
Speaker 4: So I think it's eventually going to change. I mean,
22:48
Speaker 4: I don't like betting.
22:49
Speaker 15: I'm not a gambling man, but I would certainly bet
22:51
Speaker 15: that in the next six years net zero will be dumped,
22:54
Speaker 15: as you know, as a target by both major parties.
22:58
Speaker 4: There's no question in my mind.
23:00
Speaker 2: It's hard to imagine the Labor Party dumping it, Matt.
23:04
Speaker 3: You know, it's tough to Matt.
23:07
Speaker 2: It seems like the Nationals might move to a position
23:10
Speaker 2: where they're against net zero, but the Liberal Party, and
23:13
Speaker 2: especially with the Moderates in charge you just heard Zoe McKenzie,
23:17
Speaker 2: would be I can't see a unified position from the Liberals.
23:22
Speaker 3: How do you think this is going to play out?
23:26
Speaker 12: Well, look, I just hope we have a debate, Shari.
23:28
Speaker 12: We've never had a debate on net zero in the
23:30
Speaker 12: joint party room. Never Scott Morrison adopted as a captain's
23:34
Speaker 12: pick the captain's call, and it hasn't turned out to
23:36
Speaker 12: be a very good one, at least from electoral perspective.
23:38
Speaker 12: We've been beaten twice, the last time the worst results
23:41
Speaker 12: since the inception of the Liberal Party. So on any measure,
23:46
Speaker 12: this hasn't worked for us politically, And perhaps the most
23:50
Speaker 12: frustrating thing in this debate, Shari and I say to
23:53
Speaker 12: someone like Zoe, a lovely person, but everybody I speak
23:58
Speaker 12: to who's got a different view than me now coalition
24:00
Speaker 12: on this issue pretty much Their only argument now is oh, Matt, yeah,
24:04
Speaker 12: we can't drop net zero because we need to win
24:07
Speaker 12: these votes. Now, wouldn't you think something so important as this,
24:11
Speaker 12: which is fundamentally about changing our whole economy, potentially costing
24:15
Speaker 12: thousands of people's their jobs. It already has cost thousands
24:18
Speaker 12: of jobs so far. Wouldn't we want to argue about
24:22
Speaker 12: this on whether it's best for Australia. Shouldn't that be
24:25
Speaker 12: the fundamental question we have in front of the joint
24:27
Speaker 12: party room. Is meeting a net zero target in just
24:31
Speaker 12: twenty five years good for our country or not? That
24:34
Speaker 12: should be the absolute primary question in front of us
24:37
Speaker 12: and to drop this rubbish of it.
24:39
Speaker 1: I know because this electorate.
24:40
Speaker 12: Says this, and that person says that opinions can change
24:43
Speaker 12: and they're fickle. And you can see in all of
24:45
Speaker 12: the polling that nobody wants to pay hardly anything to
24:49
Speaker 12: reach net zero. In fact, there was some polling release
24:51
Speaker 12: just two weeks ago which showed that ninety three percent
24:54
Speaker 12: of Australians would pay less than two dollars a week
24:57
Speaker 12: to meet net zero missions by twenty to fifty. And so,
25:01
Speaker 12: with all respect to my colleagues on this issue, we
25:03
Speaker 12: are now the odd man out politically.
25:05
Speaker 1: Across the world.
25:06
Speaker 12: There is no center right party political party in the
25:09
Speaker 12: western world now there's as adopted net zero as their
25:12
Speaker 12: platform in the English speaking world, I should say, not one.
25:15
Speaker 12: In the UK the Conservators have dropped it, the Republicans
25:18
Speaker 12: have never been on board obviously, in the US, in
25:20
Speaker 12: Canada they've dropped it, or in New Zealand they've just
25:23
Speaker 12: dropped it. So maybe maybe we should at least have,
25:27
Speaker 12: as I say, a debate on this issue in the
25:29
Speaker 12: joint party room, and I hope that when we do so,
25:31
Speaker 12: we put the country's interest first, not our party's interest.
25:35
Speaker 1: Our own jobs first. That's not the way to go
25:38
Speaker 1: about these debates.
25:39
Speaker 2: A long way to run on that, and Matt, that
25:42
Speaker 2: is clearly going to be your focus moving forward as well.
25:45
Speaker 2: Just before we go, you know, we often speak on
25:48
Speaker 2: this show about how long the friendship or the bromance
25:50
Speaker 2: between Donald Trump and Elon Musk, how long it was.
25:53
Speaker 3: Going to last.
25:54
Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk today confirmed that he's leaving the Trump administration.
25:58
Speaker 3: He shared this post.
26:00
Speaker 2: He said, as my scheduled time as a special government
26:02
Speaker 2: employee comes to an end, I'd like to thank Trump
26:05
Speaker 2: for the opportunity to reduce wasteful spending, et cetera, et cetera.
26:09
Speaker 2: But he also criticized the president's One Big Beautiful Bill legislation,
26:14
Speaker 2: which he says will increase budget deficits. And he said
26:18
Speaker 2: in a television interview how disappointed he was with the spending.
26:23
Speaker 3: Adam, what's gone on here behind the scenes?
26:26
Speaker 2: And is this not a great thing that we're not
26:28
Speaker 2: going to have Elon Musk's influence anymore on Donald Trump.
26:34
Speaker 15: Well, I mean to be honest, I'm surprised it didn't
26:35
Speaker 15: happen sooner because this has come a huge personal financial
26:39
Speaker 15: costs for Elon Musk being associated with Donald Trump. There's
26:42
Speaker 15: been massive falls in profits at Telstra, a massive decline
26:46
Speaker 15: in the share price, and that's all largely because of
26:48
Speaker 15: the association with Donald Trump. And you know, his central
26:51
Speaker 15: point is right that you know, this bill before Congress
26:55
Speaker 15: is basically just more of the same. The debt ceiling
26:58
Speaker 15: is going to go up for trillion dollars. Deficits are
27:00
Speaker 15: still two jilldred dollars a year. There's really no significant
27:04
Speaker 15: cuts in spending, and of course a mask through his DOGE,
27:07
Speaker 15: the Department of Governor Effingency, has has been singling out
27:11
Speaker 15: various areas to cut spending and they haven't really been cut.
27:15
Speaker 4: So so I do feel you know, I do feel sympathy.
27:18
Speaker 15: I think he's realized that, you know, politics is largely rhetoric,
27:21
Speaker 15: and there's huge inertia in government and it's very, very
27:24
Speaker 15: hard to change the direction of the US government. So
27:28
Speaker 15: I understand why he's leaving. I think it's probably good
27:30
Speaker 15: for both of them. Franklin, and at least it hasn't
27:32
Speaker 15: been a spectacular blow up as yet.
27:34
Speaker 3: As yet, wait and see whether that happens, right. Matt Canavan,
27:38
Speaker 3: Adam Crichton great to see you as always.
27:41
Speaker 2: Now still to come, Alban Ezy goes on the attack
27:44
Speaker 2: instead of listening to a think tanks warning about defense
27:47
Speaker 2: his glass jaw yet again on Show Plus Will Cross
27:51
Speaker 2: Live to Chris Kenny and Israel after his meeting with
27:54
Speaker 2: President Hertzog today, Israel wants Albin Easy to actually visit
27:58
Speaker 2: instead of spreading misinformat.
28:00
Speaker 3: That's after this quick break.
28:06
Speaker 2: Well, Israeli President Isaac Hertzog has invited Alban Easy to
28:10
Speaker 2: visit Israel. The invitation comes after the Prime Minister here
28:14
Speaker 2: labeled Israel's actions outrageous this week and he falsely accused
28:19
Speaker 2: Israel of blocking food trucks into Gaza and a lot
28:22
Speaker 2: to say about that on Monday Night Now. Paul Kelly
28:25
Speaker 2: in The Australian writes that the deterioration in Australia Israel
28:29
Speaker 2: ties is deepening. He says that in remarks to Australian
28:34
Speaker 2: editors and journalists, President Herzog made clear he would like
28:38
Speaker 2: to see Albanizi involved more directly, a sentiment that reflects
28:42
Speaker 2: the ingrained Israeli view that Australia has become both a
28:45
Speaker 2: remote and poorly informed critic of Israel's Gaza strategy and
28:51
Speaker 2: that's putting it politely. Hertzog also made it clear he
28:54
Speaker 2: would be happy to visit Australia now. Former Treasurer Josh
28:58
Speaker 2: Friedenberg is part of that delegation in Israel, along with
29:02
Speaker 2: other journalists and editors, including Chris Kenny. And I'm thrilled
29:06
Speaker 2: to say we're going live to Israel now to join
29:08
Speaker 2: Chris Kenny. If only I could jump through the television
29:10
Speaker 2: and actually be there with you, Chris. And it's great
29:14
Speaker 2: to see you back again in Israel. You visited multiple times.
29:17
Speaker 2: Can you tell us how was the meeting with President
29:20
Speaker 2: Hertzog and how frustrated does he seem with the Albaneze
29:24
Speaker 2: government position.
29:26
Speaker 17: Yeah, good to talk to you, Sharry. I'm coming to
29:28
Speaker 17: you from the Golden Heights. This is about one hundred
29:32
Speaker 17: meters from the Syrian border. Here offer to my left
29:36
Speaker 17: another front that Israel has had to come fun in
29:39
Speaker 17: recent decades and particularly in the rest of nineteen months.
29:42
Speaker 14: Yes, that meeting.
29:44
Speaker 17: Israeli President Isaac Herzog yesterday afternoon was a fascinating one.
29:49
Speaker 17: It was generally speaking on background, and we spoke in
29:52
Speaker 17: detail about the challenges confronting Israel and also the way
29:57
Speaker 17: it's getting so much criticism from the international commit and
30:00
Speaker 17: the President was very frustrated with Australia's attitude, and it's
30:06
Speaker 17: important for people to understand this.
30:08
Speaker 14: The invitation is important.
30:10
Speaker 17: He made the point in this meeting that now we're
30:13
Speaker 17: going on the record. I want this invitation to be
30:16
Speaker 17: on the record so that we could report it and
30:18
Speaker 17: it could be public. And it's very clear that the
30:21
Speaker 17: President wants Anthony Albanezi to come to Israel, not just
30:24
Speaker 17: as a matter of diplomatic nicety, but because he thinks
30:27
Speaker 17: the criticism that's coming from Australia is misinformed and unproductive,
30:32
Speaker 17: and he wants the Prime Minister to come here learn
30:34
Speaker 17: for himself about the challenges, the threats that Israel's dealing with,
30:38
Speaker 17: the challenges in delivering aid into Gaza and keeping it
30:41
Speaker 17: out of the hands of the Hummas terrorists, and he
30:43
Speaker 17: wants Australia to then have the knowledge and then offer
30:48
Speaker 17: constructive criticism, more constructive ideas and assistants. So it was
30:52
Speaker 17: very much in that spirit so that this offer was made.
30:56
Speaker 17: And I think it's very important that people understand how
31:00
Speaker 17: badly the Albanesi Labor government in this critical time has
31:06
Speaker 17: damaged relations between Australia and Israel. This is a low
31:10
Speaker 17: point for the relationship and the pretense of it improving
31:14
Speaker 17: underneath the Albanesi labor government with anti Albanesi and Pennywong
31:18
Speaker 17: in charge of foreign policy.
31:20
Speaker 14: It's not good.
31:21
Speaker 17: You would understand that as much as anyone, Sharry, it
31:25
Speaker 17: doesn't look prospective. But nonetheless, if Alberizi really wants to
31:29
Speaker 17: be constructive and informed, he should come here.
31:32
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and not just the anti Israel sentiment. But Chris,
31:36
Speaker 2: throughout your meetings this week, has there been a sense
31:40
Speaker 2: of shock also at the anti Semitism that's arisen in Australia,
31:45
Speaker 2: which I believe is inextricably linked to the government's anti
31:50
Speaker 2: Israel attitude.
31:52
Speaker 17: Yeah, you're right, and people do raise it with us,
31:54
Speaker 17: probably not as much as they have done in the past,
31:57
Speaker 17: but it has been mentioned on what's going on in Australia.
32:00
Speaker 14: Haven't you been?
32:01
Speaker 17: Your government and your authority has been stronger against anti
32:04
Speaker 17: semitism in Australia. What's behind it? Why you're seeing it?
32:07
Speaker 17: There's been those sorts of those sorts of comments, but
32:10
Speaker 17: primarily there's so many people who have spoken to government
32:14
Speaker 17: officials and other non government agencies and citizens have talked
32:19
Speaker 17: about what they call betrayal from Australia. And the history
32:23
Speaker 17: between Israel and Australia goes back to before this country
32:26
Speaker 17: was formed in nineteen forty eight, of course, and it's
32:29
Speaker 17: been especially strong since then, and they feel that they've
32:31
Speaker 17: been stabbed in the back by Australia and betrayed. In
32:34
Speaker 17: their darkest now, of course, Israel is fighting for its
32:38
Speaker 17: very existence and this is when Australia has decided to
32:42
Speaker 17: abandon it in United Nations forums and through this sort
32:44
Speaker 17: of rectoric.
32:45
Speaker 14: So it's a very clear theme here.
32:47
Speaker 17: It is sad, but the people, the people Link says,
32:50
Speaker 17: you would understand Sharia are still very strong. I've bumped
32:52
Speaker 17: into many many Australians here and many Israelis who know
32:57
Speaker 17: Australia and have visited there, and they're all over this
32:59
Speaker 17: country and they want to keep the relationship strong. But
33:02
Speaker 17: at a government to government level, it's in a really
33:05
Speaker 17: bad place.
33:06
Speaker 2: It is, indeed, Chris just here in Australia. The ABC
33:10
Speaker 2: issued a correction to their repetition of that inaccurate claim
33:15
Speaker 2: that fourteen thousand babies were at risk of starvation in
33:19
Speaker 2: Gaza in a forty eight hour period. Now the ABC
33:21
Speaker 2: only corrected this today, it's a full week after the
33:24
Speaker 2: BBC issue to correction. This is typical of the misinformation
33:30
Speaker 2: that we're seeing from the public broadcaster. It's typical of
33:34
Speaker 2: the bias that we're seeing from mainstream media outlets.
33:39
Speaker 17: Yeah, this is disgraceful from the ABC showy, absolutely disgraceful.
33:43
Speaker 14: This was a blatant lie.
33:45
Speaker 17: The moment it was uttered by the United Nations, you
33:48
Speaker 17: could see it was an utter lie. I corrected this
33:50
Speaker 17: on my program with some analysis of the facts a
33:53
Speaker 17: full week ago. The ABC ran with it and don't
33:57
Speaker 17: correct it till a week later.
33:58
Speaker 14: This is all of a pattern.
34:00
Speaker 17: You know, the media reports that Israel kills five hundred
34:03
Speaker 17: people in a hospital. It's a lie, But the retractions
34:06
Speaker 17: and corrections never get the coverage that the.
34:09
Speaker 14: Origin the original allegations get.
34:11
Speaker 17: And in this case, the ABC and many other arms
34:15
Speaker 17: of the media around the world, it should be said,
34:17
Speaker 17: went with this claim that fourteen thousand babies would die
34:20
Speaker 17: in forty eight hours.
34:21
Speaker 14: Now a moment's thought. If you know anything about.
34:24
Speaker 17: The situation and the numbers of people and Allied and
34:28
Speaker 17: the medical situation.
34:29
Speaker 14: Do you know anything about that?
34:31
Speaker 17: You know that whole clear preposterous implaus But when you
34:35
Speaker 17: drew into it and ask about it, of course they
34:38
Speaker 17: referred that the only basis for it, the only slim
34:40
Speaker 17: basis for it, was a report on humanitarian issues that
34:45
Speaker 17: said if the war goes on for another year, when
34:48
Speaker 17: in the worst case scenario, if aid doesn't improve, there
34:51
Speaker 17: could be fourteen thousand cases of malnutrition in children up to.
34:55
Speaker 14: Five years of age.
34:57
Speaker 17: This is reported as fourteen thousand babies in two days time.
35:01
Speaker 14: It is lassable and it is so damaging.
35:04
Speaker 3: Chris love having you joined us from Israel.
35:07
Speaker 2: Look forward to seeing you when you're back, and of
35:09
Speaker 2: course stay safe, good travels.
35:11
Speaker 14: Thanks Charry.
35:13
Speaker 3: Still to come.
35:14
Speaker 2: Poor Keating is set to launch a campaign against Jim
35:16
Speaker 2: Chalmers tax and unrealized capital gains. Robert Gottleibsen will join
35:20
Speaker 2: me shortly with more details and straight after the break.
35:23
Speaker 2: Our defense is not up to fighting condition, but alban
35:27
Speaker 2: Easy instead attacks the Messenger.
35:29
Speaker 3: Karen Milner and David Gazzard next.
35:36
Speaker 2: Well, the leading security think tank has exposed the grim
35:39
Speaker 2: reality of our defense force. The head of the Australian
35:42
Speaker 2: Strategic Policy Institute.
35:44
Speaker 3: Justin Vassi had this.
35:46
Speaker 10: Warning, spending a lot of money, as we should on
35:49
Speaker 10: these exquisite capabilities that are likely to come to fruition
35:52
Speaker 10: in the late twenty thirties twenty forties, like the Orchest submarines.
35:56
Speaker 10: But with the world as dangerous as it is, so
35:58
Speaker 10: many national security threats, he's a risk that we have
36:00
Speaker 10: a gap in the short term.
36:03
Speaker 2: Albinizi listening to these smart minds, the brilliant analysts.
36:08
Speaker 3: Instead of taking their advice, he went on the attack.
36:12
Speaker 18: Well that's what they do, isn't it. Asp I mean, seriously,
36:17
Speaker 18: they need to, I think have a look at themselves
36:21
Speaker 18: as well, and the way that they conduct themselves and debates.
36:25
Speaker 18: We've had a defense strategic review, We've got considerable additional
36:30
Speaker 18: investment going into defense.
36:34
Speaker 2: The way they conduct themselves in debates. Does that mean
36:37
Speaker 2: don't criticize my government in a debate. I mean, this
36:40
Speaker 2: is a matter of public interest whether we can defend
36:43
Speaker 2: our nation. Albanzi shouldn't be attacking the think tank. And
36:47
Speaker 2: by the way, in his comments about someone from a
36:49
Speaker 2: former government, he's referring to Justin Bassi, who used to
36:52
Speaker 2: work as chief of staff to Foreign Minister Maurice Payne.
36:55
Speaker 2: Let's bring in our former Morrison government advisor David Gazzard
36:59
Speaker 2: and I'm a shot in Chief of Staff Cameron min
37:02
Speaker 2: are good to see you both, Cameron. Quite bizarre to
37:04
Speaker 2: attack a credible think tank. Is this another case of
37:07
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister's glass jaw?
37:11
Speaker 19: Absolutely, Chari it is Albow's glass jaw, and the inconvenient
37:14
Speaker 19: truth of someone talking about the fact that our defense
37:17
Speaker 19: capability required a virgin pilot to bring in Chinese live
37:21
Speaker 19: far exercise. I mean, our defenses are not what they
37:24
Speaker 19: should be, especially in an era where things are just
37:26
Speaker 19: so dangerous on our doorstep. And sure Ucus is great,
37:30
Speaker 19: but why not point out the fact, as Aspy has,
37:32
Speaker 19: that we've got a big issue between now and ten
37:35
Speaker 19: years time and we need to be able to defend
37:37
Speaker 19: ourselves right now. So if it's inconvenient truth for Albo,
37:40
Speaker 19: I'm sorry, but he's actually got to listen to the experts.
37:43
Speaker 3: Absolutely, especially when it comes to defense.
37:46
Speaker 4: David, this is the time we want to ask me.
37:52
Speaker 20: I can think of really only two influential think tanks
37:56
Speaker 20: that have really punched above their weight over the last
37:58
Speaker 20: half decade. One would be the left of center Australian Institute,
38:02
Speaker 20: and the other is ASPY. And of course, because it's
38:05
Speaker 20: been effective, because it's been influential, it has got up
38:09
Speaker 20: the nose of the Chinese. And let's not forget here
38:13
Speaker 20: that one of the fourteen egregious demands the Chinese made
38:17
Speaker 20: of the Australian government was to defund ASPI exactly for
38:23
Speaker 20: the muzzling of the press. And it also called for
38:26
Speaker 20: Parliament to stop criticizing China as well as the defunding
38:31
Speaker 20: of ASPI, and that is exactly what is occurring. So Australia,
38:36
Speaker 20: at a time of great strategic weakness, is defunding at
38:40
Speaker 20: the request of China, the one instrument that has been
38:44
Speaker 20: probably front and center pointing out where we're strategically weak.
38:48
Speaker 4: And where we're strong. At its time we need it.
38:52
Speaker 2: Very good points, at excellent points that I want to
38:55
Speaker 2: ask you both as Bomber Political Insights, about the shadow
38:59
Speaker 2: cab that was just announced yesterday afternoon. And we've been
39:02
Speaker 2: reporting on how senior women were demoted. You know, other
39:07
Speaker 2: talented people like Dave Sharma weren't given great jobs very
39:11
Speaker 2: junior Olds Cameron, you know, as a veteran insider. You
39:15
Speaker 2: both know how ministries are put together. I mean, Cameron,
39:18
Speaker 2: this is flawed. This is a failure, isn't it.
39:23
Speaker 19: Well I'd think so, and I think you've actually got
39:24
Speaker 19: to give them a bit of a chance. I mean,
39:26
Speaker 19: you know, James Patterson going to finance. I think it's
39:28
Speaker 19: an excellent move. James McGrath from you know, from Queen's
39:31
Speaker 19: a's very good. Zoe McKenzie coming into the out of ministry.
39:34
Speaker 19: So there's some young talent coming through as well, and
39:36
Speaker 19: Julian Lessa coming back in as well, So I think.
39:38
Speaker 1: There's some good things.
39:39
Speaker 19: Look, the reason is that Jane Hume wasn't dump because
39:42
Speaker 19: she's a woman.
39:42
Speaker 4: She's dump because she's a dud.
39:44
Speaker 19: She had work from home, she had Chinese spies, she
39:46
Speaker 19: cost seed after seed after seat. So no, if you're
39:49
Speaker 19: a dud, you've got to be deleted and gone. It's
39:51
Speaker 19: not about gender, it's about capacity and competence.
39:56
Speaker 3: David, what do you think?
39:57
Speaker 4: I mean?
39:57
Speaker 2: Would you agree that Susan Lee has made task even
40:01
Speaker 2: harder after enraging so many people?
40:06
Speaker 20: It is a tough thing forming a cabinet or a shadow, Well,
40:10
Speaker 20: it's always going to be a shadow cabinet when the
40:12
Speaker 20: numbers are as low as they are, and you've just
40:15
Speaker 20: lost a whole range of talented people, but also you've
40:20
Speaker 20: had a very close run leadership battle, so the numbers
40:23
Speaker 20: are delicately poised. So you have to make a choice
40:26
Speaker 20: between a whole range of things, representation in the states,
40:31
Speaker 20: representation of gender, representation of factions. Somewhere down the line
40:36
Speaker 20: comes talent, probably not as high as it should be, to.
40:39
Speaker 3: Be honest, the problem. That's the problem.
40:41
Speaker 20: And then you've got to also balance out who are
40:44
Speaker 20: the people who voted for you that you want to
40:48
Speaker 20: reward and who are the people that voted for your
40:52
Speaker 20: opponent that you don't want to give too much ago,
40:55
Speaker 20: Although you've got to keep some in the ten. So
40:57
Speaker 20: this was always going to be a fraud exercise. I
41:01
Speaker 20: do think there is a crop of young people within
41:05
Speaker 20: the coalition's ranks that deserve a go. Some that didn't
41:08
Speaker 20: get in at all. But it is good to see
41:12
Speaker 20: a group of young people coming through that can can
41:15
Speaker 20: form the generational change that I think so desperately needed
41:18
Speaker 20: in the coalition.
41:19
Speaker 2: I mean, in many respects, the generational changes happened anyway
41:23
Speaker 2: because so many people lost their seats, so there's hardly
41:26
Speaker 2: anyone left Camerin. I'm interested in your thoughts on Susan
41:30
Speaker 2: Lee as a leader. I know you know you're being
41:33
Speaker 2: polite and you say let's give it a go or
41:35
Speaker 2: the benefit of the doubt.
41:36
Speaker 3: But in terms of actually.
41:38
Speaker 2: Winning against Albanezi, who none of us here think is
41:42
Speaker 2: any good.
41:43
Speaker 3: Is she the coalition's best option, Well.
41:48
Speaker 4: I don't think.
41:48
Speaker 19: I don't think the opposition from now is going to
41:50
Speaker 19: defeat Anthony Albanize. The voters will get out Anthony Albanize
41:53
Speaker 19: well before the opposition does. And that's the point I
41:55
Speaker 19: made in a column the other week about Starmer. Ten
41:58
Speaker 19: months in, he's running scared a huge majority, but the
42:01
Speaker 19: voters have turned on him midterm, and so I think
42:03
Speaker 19: that's what happens first, is is if Albanie lose the
42:05
Speaker 19: support of voters, the opposition gets played back into the game.
42:08
Speaker 19: And let's not forget the fact that that even under
42:10
Speaker 19: Peter Dutton they were ahead until December last year. They
42:14
Speaker 19: lost the campaign, but they didn't necessarily lose the voters
42:17
Speaker 19: up until the last moment, and obviously very badly.
42:20
Speaker 4: Nevertheless, let's still.
42:22
Speaker 2: Need a strong and I was saying sorry to interrupt,
42:25
Speaker 2: but you still need a strong, incredible opposition leader.
42:27
Speaker 3: Otherwise, as in the case with.
42:28
Speaker 2: Victoria, where Victorians are so frustrated with their state government,
42:33
Speaker 2: but if there's a weak opposition, they've got no one
42:35
Speaker 2: to turn to.
42:38
Speaker 19: Look, as I say, I think he give susan ago,
42:40
Speaker 19: see how she goes, give us some clear air. Peter
42:43
Speaker 19: Dutton had that blessing from his cabinet after the Morrison loss.
42:47
Speaker 19: So I think she deserves the same chance. And yes,
42:50
Speaker 19: if she fails, she needs to go. But if not,
42:52
Speaker 19: give her a go.
42:53
Speaker 3: All right, Cameron, David, great to see you again.
42:57
Speaker 2: Now coming up next, Paul Keating is set to launch
43:00
Speaker 2: a campaign against Labour's tax on unrealized capital gains. Robert
43:04
Speaker 2: got Leibsen has the story and he joins me after
43:07
Speaker 2: this break, welcome back, Well Australia's a legendary economics reporter.
43:15
Speaker 2: Robert got Leibsen writes that former Prime Minister Paul Keating
43:18
Speaker 2: is white hot with anger over the superttas and plans
43:22
Speaker 2: to tax unrealized capital gains.
43:24
Speaker 3: He writes that it goes.
43:25
Speaker 2: Against our highly prized to prenuation scheme that Keating established
43:30
Speaker 2: and got leaps In reports that in due course the
43:32
Speaker 2: former Prime Minister and Treasurer will go public with a
43:35
Speaker 2: withering blast against charmers, more intense than any ever directed
43:40
Speaker 2: to a cabinet minister. Now, please to say, Robert joins me. Now, Robert,
43:44
Speaker 2: good to see you. Look, you have written amazing columns
43:49
Speaker 2: on this topic, and you're saying that you're concerned that
43:52
Speaker 2: there is this campaign building against the Albanezy government. The
43:57
Speaker 2: issue is that they have the numbers in the Senate
43:59
Speaker 2: to get this through. So do you think that the
44:01
Speaker 2: Prime Minister and Treasurer will reconsider their position?
44:07
Speaker 1: I don't know. I obviously should do that, but.
44:11
Speaker 21: When politicians are locked into a situation that's stupid and
44:14
Speaker 21: they've got it wrong, they find it very, very difficult
44:17
Speaker 21: to change. And I can't focast that. All I can
44:22
Speaker 21: say is that the damage they're going to do to
44:25
Speaker 21: the economy and the damage they will particularly do to
44:28
Speaker 21: our capital raising ability is it will be severe.
44:34
Speaker 2: Now, as I just read there, you're reporting that both
44:36
Speaker 2: Paul Keating and Bill Kelty are concerned about this legislation.
44:42
Speaker 2: What are their main concerns?
44:44
Speaker 21: Well, you have to understand what Paul Keating was trying
44:47
Speaker 21: to do with superannuation, and that was to have a
44:51
Speaker 21: retirement savings pool of great magnitude. But all people of
44:58
Speaker 21: different levels of well and income participated in this exercise.
45:03
Speaker 21: Now what he now knows is that about a third
45:08
Speaker 21: of the funds, that's the self managed funds, won't put
45:11
Speaker 21: up with a tax on unrealized gains and they will
45:14
Speaker 21: take their savings elsewhere in due course. And so what
45:18
Speaker 21: will happen is exactly what he didn't want to happen.
45:21
Speaker 21: That is a superannuation movement that's dominated by the lower
45:27
Speaker 21: income and middle income people instead of the whole society.
45:30
Speaker 21: And as I understand it, he equates it with many care.
45:34
Speaker 21: Everyone uses many cares. Some people get to bog build,
45:37
Speaker 21: some get a little bit of rebound, others get more rebound.
45:40
Speaker 21: But everyone's in it. And that's his vision of superannuation.
45:45
Speaker 21: And that's what Charmers appears to go. Well, he's getting
45:47
Speaker 21: destroyed if he keeps going.
45:49
Speaker 2: And you're hearing that Keating's as you write white hot
45:53
Speaker 2: with anger about this is understated.
45:57
Speaker 21: Imagine how would you feel if you'd said up this
46:00
Speaker 21: vision and you got it there and it was now
46:04
Speaker 21: producing it and a young treasure turns out and he says,
46:07
Speaker 21: I'm going to do something really tough on your movement.
46:11
Speaker 21: Can you imagine I heard you play some of feetings
46:14
Speaker 21: and remarks, or just double those because here is attacking
46:18
Speaker 21: the whole vision of this form of treasure.
46:22
Speaker 2: And he's been active, he's been speaking to some of
46:24
Speaker 2: the industry supervines.
46:26
Speaker 21: Is that right, well, yes, of course they probably ring
46:29
Speaker 21: him up. The thing is that everybody knows this is
46:33
Speaker 21: silly and the only you'd have to think charmers must
46:36
Speaker 21: think now at two. But it's as I said you before,
46:39
Speaker 21: it's very hard for politicians to understand that. Just take
46:44
Speaker 21: you back a little bit as to what they are doing.
46:46
Speaker 21: You remember, we agreed it roughly as a community that
46:50
Speaker 21: for for income on superannomation balances above three million, it
46:55
Speaker 21: should be taxed at thirty percent instead of fifteen percent.
46:58
Speaker 21: Now what you and I would have done, and just
47:00
Speaker 21: about everyone else in the nation w said, Okay, if
47:03
Speaker 21: we're going to do that, we'll tax that second fifteen
47:06
Speaker 21: percent will bit of thirty percent, but the same method
47:09
Speaker 21: exactly the same methods we use for first thirty fifteen
47:12
Speaker 21: percent will apply to a second fifteen percent.
47:16
Speaker 1: It makes sense.
47:18
Speaker 21: Instead of that, young Jim, what he did was he said, oh, no,
47:22
Speaker 21: I'm going to have a new tax. I'm going to
47:24
Speaker 21: in that second fifteen percent, I'm going to tax you
47:27
Speaker 21: on your unrealized gains. Almost know when the world has
47:30
Speaker 21: ever done that. And he then said, the treasury, look,
47:35
Speaker 21: estimate how much I'll get, and try gave in that estimate,
47:39
Speaker 21: but of course they didn't get count the fact that
47:41
Speaker 21: a lot of people are going to leave supernuation and
47:44
Speaker 21: in fact the estimates will be wrong over two fo years.
47:47
Speaker 21: And so you know, it's the sort of thing you
47:50
Speaker 21: shouldn't do, but it's hard to admit mistakes.
47:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now as you're reporting that this could be
47:57
Speaker 2: an unprecedented campaign against the Albanesi government.
48:01
Speaker 3: That's united. You know you write this, it's united parts of.
48:04
Speaker 2: Industry, Superannuation, the union movement and the business community, a
48:08
Speaker 2: combination without precedent. And if the likes of Poor Keating
48:12
Speaker 2: and Bill Kelty as well get involved, then perhaps the
48:16
Speaker 2: government will be forced to reconsider this because this will
48:19
Speaker 2: be an argument against it. I mean, based absolutely on fact,
48:23
Speaker 2: but one that there's no question the opposition has not
48:26
Speaker 2: had the ability to prosecute Robert.
48:28
Speaker 3: I've loved having you on the show.
48:29
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your time and look forward
48:32
Speaker 2: to hopefully having you on again to talk about this
48:34
Speaker 2: topic as it progresses. And thanks everyone for your company
48:38
Speaker 2: this week. I'll see you on Monday at eight o'clock.
48:40
Speaker 2: Have a lovely weekend, and here's calebont