Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / Have Springboks Left All Blacks Behind?! Is TRC Going Back to South Africa?

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Have Springboks Left All Blacks Behind?! Is TRC Going Back to South Africa? · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

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I mean, what a performance by Sasha Fondak and Goma Zulu.
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My goodness, he's unbelievable in every aspect of his game.
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But he dropped kicked it, it went over the line, the Argentinian courted,
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tried. Since when are we allowed to put the ball in cricket?
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They weren't going to compete anyway, they wouldn't have got their hands on the ball,
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even if it had been straight.
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There's something not quite clicking in the all blacks at the moment,
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losing to South Africa and the World Cup and then us coming third
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and the women's World Cup, you need to start looking and asking some honest questions.
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I'm a big Argentina, I'm not really a fan this weekend.
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No, I'm a fan!
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Right, welcome to Rivals and well, one of the rugby championship teams
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seems to have a bigger, smaller than the other team, even though they both won.
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Victor?
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Yeah, I mean, two weeks in a row for South Africa,
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just playing unbelievable rugby at the moment.
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I thought them at first off, see, I don't just know about the ref when we're winning.
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I thought them at first off, the ref really tried to keep Argentina in the game.
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But just the character, the guys showed it.
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I mean, after that Colby incident where they gave the try, you could just see the frustration
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and the guys just said, listen, we're going to bounce back, we're coming back immediately
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and they went and scored immediately.
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So yeah, and then in the second half, coming out, I mean, what a performance by Sasha Fondak
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in Bromassulu. We all said last year, he's a special player and on Saturday, he just showed it.
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I think scored 37 points, most points ever scored by Springbok in a taste match.
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He was just outstanding and there's so many guys around us.
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I mean, in the forward back, Peter Stephs, he's always still playing fantastic.
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I think Jasper, he's on a roll, he's making such a big impact in that team.
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And then, yeah, Sasha and the guys outside to have brilliant.
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Even you were impressed, J.K.?
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Yeah, I mean, for me, it was an outstanding performance.
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I disagree with you, Victor, a little bit in the first half.
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I thought that the Argentinians were pretty good.
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I thought they were really physical.
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I thought they were playing some really good stuff around the rack.
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I liked some of their phase play, but like for me, I thought it was
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South Africa without standing.
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I mean, Sasha reminds me of Dan Carter.
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I think he has got all the skills.
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The thing that scares me the most is that,
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and I've been critical of it, are we, but changing the side so much,
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but you've actually got three first-class world-class first-fifths now.
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From what you've done and showing what Russ is done, showing some risk,
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and retrospectively maybe New Zealand hasn't shown enough risk,
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and that's going to be highlighted a wee bit this week with Bodyn
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going down with an AC joint, but I just thought South Africa outstanding, mate.
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I thought it was actually pretty scary, because I think they are well ahead
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of the other nations from a depth point of view,
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and I think what you've managed to do is give enough guys
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tests, experience, almost full of dreams.
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I was going to say ahead in quality, but he doesn't want to go there.
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I'm not going there, Victor. I mean, I've been, I've been bloody, come on, mate.
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Like I've just said, you're like, like, yeah, I can't go too far,
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but I think that, you know, that was an incredible performance.
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I think Argentina were really good at times, but the second half performance,
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and things that they were doing in the first half that didn't quite come off.
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I mean, I felt sorry for Kobe. He was obviously just trying to pass that ball, right?
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He was just trying to kick pass it. He actually wasn't dropping.
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He wasn't trying to drop kick it out. He was just trying to pass it to his mate.
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I don't know what you saw, Trinby, but we're coming for you, man.
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Like, this is now, Victor and I are now mates, and we're coming for you.
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We're coming for you in Chicago, but you have to be on your game to be
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the South African side, when they're like that.
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Yeah, so that figure that there's definitely the benchmark in world rugby.
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And yeah, that backhanded compliment, Victor, that you weren't happy with quite there.
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He complimented you in the depth, but that top tier, that first 15, that they can put out.
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So that for guns is just incredible. No, it's just that balance of kind of freshness and 20
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Brian and everything, all the physicality and kicking game and confrontation that we'd expect
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from South Africa. Sasha Feinberg and Gormezoulin, I'll take a bog down on him, but it's worth
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getting bogged down on him. He is the most complete 10 with C and JK, maybe another backhand
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of compliment by comparing to Kiwi, but the best Kiwi, one of the best Kiwis of all time.
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I would see it through Irish, Irish eyes, but there's, I don't think Ireland have ever had
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an out half anywhere near that complete or up air, that complete maybe.
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My goodness, he's unbelievable. And every aspect of his game, he's just an absolute world
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beater, the physicality, his calmness, his gamerware, his kicking game, his peers, his top and
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peers to I'd strip everybody. It was like watching the best kid in mini rugby, just run a mock
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and be better than everyone else. So yeah, his, his all-round game is as complete as his double-barrel
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near Sasha Feinberg and Gormezoulin. We all better learn how to pronounce that because he's going to
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be, he's going to be huge over the next number of years, I'd say.
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What's it been like and say that, Victor, you know, you're getting carried away after that
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performance? Please get carried away, please. I think the guys will be very happy with that performance,
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but I, I think we might see a lot of changes for this weekend coming. I've said it before,
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South Africa, a lot of the time we knocked the base when we, everyone writes us highly and I think
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we're the base now, but I think we might see some of the older guys getting opportunity and say,
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listen guys, these youngsters or these younger players showed what they can do. Andrei, J.C.
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from Kumolstedt, here's your chance. Go show us, you still belong in the group and you still want
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to compete with these younger players. So, yeah, I think the competition is on. I spoke to
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100 and J.C. and them often, they still look positive for the group, but you can just see
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something on their faces of, we know that first choice any more like we were a year ago. So it's
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going to be difficult for South Africa to put another performance like that out, but I think
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with a squad that we've got and with, I definitely think there's going to be changes. I think there's
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going to be quite a few changes. I'll see those guys playing, wants to show, listen, we still
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competing for that number one position. What didn't go well, Victor? What do you think that can
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prove on? Do you think they still, have they still yet to put a 80 minute performance together,
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or are we being a bit negative towards the opposite? I was really frustrated in the first half,
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J.C. and you always talk about South Africa and slowing down the base. I thought on J.C.
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now was slowing down. It was a stop start that first half couldn't get going. I still believe
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there's a few referee decisions that I couldn't, I mean, we need to talk about Colby. I'll often
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let you see where the penalty kicks, I'm going to take the ball, he kicks it to the kicker who
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he was going to play. He's not even close to the mark. You can see, you didn't, you just wanted to
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kick the ball to the guy who needed to start the game. So yeah, there's a few things that I thought
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just couldn't get into to the game, but I mean once it got going, it was fantastic. But for me,
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and even talking about Sasha, Sasha's big thing now is to you can't play a game like that every
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Saturday. There needs to be times where he just goes through the thing, just do the basics really well.
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And within a game, there will be opportunity to show his skillset. But yeah,
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there's been a lot of talk about him. The other guy they're talking about skating in
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Murdi at 13. And, and Trimby, we've talked about the aerial battle being so important. And I think
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there was a lot of kickings from nine on the touchdowns for the wingers. But now with Murdi at 13
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for South Africa, we can even play the aerial game in the middle of the field because he's so good at
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winning those balls back. And yeah, giving us broken field in the midfield, which is not
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because you can attack both sides. So yeah, I think everyone is very happy with the team,
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but I think Gracie will be hot on them and there will be a lot of changes to make sure the guys
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aren't complacent going into the basket. Let's just go through that Colby try where he put the
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ball down for 22. Dropkick the ball to his mate to kick it and it went over the trial line,
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the Argentinian scored it. And I don't see what's wrong with it. I mean, it was a dropkick.
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It doesn't matter what his intention was, but he dropped kicked it. It went over the line,
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the Argentinian called it. Try. How can you, how can you argue with that?
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It's in the spirit of the game. Come on. Yeah. You all know that. You get off.
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It's just forcing the ball to the goal. That's what I wanted to talk to you about Victor. And,
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you know, Trimby, you, you're, you're out the backs with me, but Victor's been pushing in the
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strum. Stay on the, stay on topic, mate. I want to, stay on topic, mate, because what is happening
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to our game? So you, so tell me when we're allowed to put our hands in racks and tell me when
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it doesn't become a fear contest in the, in the scrum. So we're putting it in crooked, right?
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So what Victor's saying is obviously that dropkick, he was kicking it to his mate, right?
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And it'd be lovely if the game went to him and said, right, because that's our values.
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Is it within the letter of the year, law? Yes, it is Ricardo, but answer me this, Victor,
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since when are we allowed to put the ball in crooked in the scrum? And it's been happening for a
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lot of, did I miss something in the rules? And then on Saturday and, and all through the
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championship, I've seen halfbacks put their hand in a rack to, to palm the ball back so they can
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do their kick. So tell me where those rules, if I miss something, or we just allowed to cheat now,
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just, just before we go there, Trumbi, can you give me your thoughts on the, on the Colby's try?
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Yeah, for me, it was, it was a try for Argentina and fair enough. It was just such an unusual
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action for Colby. Even if he's trying to get the ball at the hands of whoever it is, it's going to
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take the, the, the goal and 20 or goal and drop out. Just to drop kick it to him, such an unusual,
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unusual thing. You see lads, it used to be 22 drop out. You see lads passing the ball around to
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kind of shape around, get the shape together to make the kick, but to actually drop kick it,
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I think it was really naive of Colby. I think it was an impression of just how comfortable he is.
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It looked like he was on the trend in public, just mopping around or kind of just had a bit of a
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brain fart, but yeah, he dropped his guard for a second. And I think as soon as he did it, he went,
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oh, I'm in trouble here at this. He's, uh, to be fair, he made a man's arrest, it was game,
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and he's plenty of credit. If anybody's going to get away with that, it's Colby. But yeah,
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it was just a dumb moment from someone like one of the world's best performers, but yeah,
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just a really silly moment. I think I think you knew immediately.
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So the letter of the law, Ricardo, since you've rudely interrupted me when I had another topic
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that I wanted to answer. So yeah, the letter of the law, the question that Victor said,
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and Trimby, you're right, the letter of the law was wrong, right? So score the try. But the letter of
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law in rugby is so up in the air now, like I said, and answer me this, Victor, um, can you,
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as there's too much pressure in the scrum now that you can get a hook. So you can't hop the ball
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anymore. But every halfback, including ours, is putting the ball in under the hooker's feet.
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What happened to putting it in straight? No, I think it's still like so.
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Victor would love the ball to go straight into the scrum. Um, I mean, that will give us
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opportunity to really go at teams, um, and dominate them now with a way you can put the ball in.
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That channel one ball is so quick. So if you do that really well, a team like Japan uses it well,
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Argentina, Australia, I used it when they went, um, so secure for the scrum. It's just skew the hooker,
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just touch it and it's at eight feet. So, um, yeah, all these funny laws that they bring in. I mean,
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the ball should be in the middle. I mean, the line out, these days they say you can throw the ball
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skew if they don't compete. It's fine. So I'm just saying, so if I'm attacking and there's no defending
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in front of my winner, I can pause the ball forward because there's no defender. Where are we
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getting to that? I mean, I don't know. Who makes it? You need to be able to have is to put the ball
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in straight line up. So I don't know. So for me, this is, this is a massive problem with our game,
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right? So it's the ball should go in straight. If you throw the ball in the line out, it has to
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go straight, regardless of what the opposition does, who is coming up with these hair-brained ideas?
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I don't get it. I do. Because one of the fundamental, um, constitutional things in our game is
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it must be a fair contest. So if you don't put the ball in straight, how can it be a fair contest?
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Can I ask you a question? But it can't be competed for if someone, if someone else isn't in the air
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to compete, then that's not going to be a fair contest. Anyway, there's going to be no
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opportunity for the opposition to disrupt that line out. I don't, I don't have an issue with it.
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And the reason why I don't have an issue with it is because I want to see as much rugby play as
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possible. Stop blowing your whistle, ref, and here's an opportunity where they weren't going to compete.
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Anyway, they wouldn't have got their hands on the ball, even if it had been straight. So why don't we
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just all show up? Yeah, you haven't been in a line out. So it's, I know struggles with these
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showing. And then go to the front of the line out contest and force him to go to the back,
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because that's a skill he needs to have. Now I go to the force, I force him to throw a
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difficult ball. So let's say, it's a difficult air condition, the wind's blowing, but now he can
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throw a skill, a skill. So he doesn't have the skill to play a test match rugby. I think that's
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someone near the bottom of the bar. The way I want to put him under pressure, now all of the
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sudden against throw stew if I'm not there, and he's not under pressure. We'll jump. No, Ricardo,
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no, that's not right. What, what, what, what, what Victor is saying is that it's a core skill.
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I know he's saying, I'll kill it a guy. I'm sure I just want to give it a try. If it's a
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forward boss to the wing end, there's no one in front of him. No one could have seen the last
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in weeks. Hold on a minute. Listen, you spent the last 10 weeks telling me, I want to speed up the
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game. I want a good fast game. You know, we want plenty of action. You know, hold on, let me
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throw a nice and no one else. Let me finish. If you had to let me finish, I would have said to
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Trimby, I understand your theory, but there's other ways that we should be speeding the game up,
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not with the core principles of our game. And the core principle of our game is the 10,
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the two needs to throw it down the middle. If you compete, that's up to you. The other thing that
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needs to be done is the ball needs to go in straight. We can speed the game up other ways.
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How often have we said, have a 30 second shot clock on the thing and they've got to set the
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scrum? Have a 30 second shot clock and they've got to throw the ball in. So I understand what you're
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saying, but you can't take our core fundamentals of the game out of it. What happens at the same
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principle applies at a breakdown whenever someone comes in to clear out a rock and then someone
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who's looking to poach or looking to jackal, they do that the madador and they bounce back,
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someone comes off their feet. So if they're not competing at that breakdown, then you're allowed
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to come off your feet or smash through that space. Are you happy with that? Because that's the same
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principle as the line out, not competing. Well, the trouble I've got with that, and I'll let Victor
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because he hit more rucks than me. The trouble I've got with that is it comes back to the
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rest's interpretation, right? And so the trouble is with the ref and it happened a couple of gains
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in the South African, a couple of times in the South African game where a couple of times he said,
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it's okay to be off your feet because the madador effect, but other times he missed it. The trouble is
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it's up for interpretation. That's my biggest problem, right? So everything is up for interpretation.
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But what I wanted you pulled out or didn't pull out is up for interpretation. Exactly. Yeah,
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that's totally up for interpretation by the referee, right? So if he's not looking at that and he
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picked up a couple on Saturday, why should we let the opposition pull out of that rock?
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Isn't it just easy to say you have to stay? I can't believe you're both one and here we are
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arguing about the referees. Can we I'm the bug guy today? Yeah, I'm the bug guy because you're both
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starting to make excuses for November already. Exactly mate. That's my thing. Trimble, you've just come
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here, mate, trying to make up excuses because we're coming at you. Well, let's talk about the
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British low cut. You know, I only like how easy is the fenn, you only have to win one game,
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and they all blacks won that game. Were you happy J.K. with the performance?
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Oh, so you want to change tradition now? Do you, Ricardo? Yeah, I want to get a three test for the
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British low cut. Is that what you want to do? Yeah, and you want to go back to sit going,
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putting the ball on. So we're both on the same page. Actually, halfbacks just before I came on to
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the scene used to throw the ball on mate. Wingers, wingers used to throw it on. What did you say?
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Was I happy that we've retained the latest low cut? We're happy with the performance, not the
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result, but the performance by the all blacks. I was really happy with the win. I thought the
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performance, there's something not quite clicking in the all blacks at the moment when you see South
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Africa playing with confidence. It looks like we're not playing with confidence at the moment.
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It looks like we're, how often do you see an all black side get out by 20 and then not kick on
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and play with incredible confidence and play with what they see in front of them?
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That might have been because they had some early injuries, but I don't think this all black
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team is playing with the confidence that I'd like them to be playing with at the moment. So was I
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happy? I was happy with the bledest low cut. I think there's still a long way to go with our
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performance. Victor, what do you think of us? I'm agreeing too much with Jacob this morning,
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but I'm feeling the same. I think a good win for New Zealand. This is a very improved Australian
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team and they never do go away. But like Jacob is saying, in the past, if I played the all blacks and
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they get a 20 point lead start, you couldn't stop them because everything started working from
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them. All their all floats, all the funny passes, you were just in trouble and all of a sudden
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it feels like they're playing not to lose rather than to go out there and to go and express
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himself, especially when they get a start like that. Normally when you, you don't get a start like
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that, then they just, they just all over you. You don't get the opportunity to stop them because
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the momentum is there. All the passes are working. They're pushing it out the back. All the little
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all floats are coming at dawn. And they just get that momentum in again. And at this stage,
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it just doesn't look like they've got that confidence they say, listen, we've got this. Let's go. Let's
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open up. Let's go into fifth gear. So yeah, I think they will feel they still not there. Yes, great
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win under pressure, especially after a performance like they had in Wellington. Probably the
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pressure is there. They just need to win first. And let's see what happens this week. Maybe
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that will give them confidence going to this next game and say, listen, let's go express ourselves.
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Trimbley. It's just the problem in New Zealand is that the mid, like it was a pretty comprehensive
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win. Very good performance. I think Roy Garge is really important for up in the tempo and just
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giving you guys just another option going forward. But I agree with Victor. That's what I see as
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well. I just felt like if you get that big start and that's it, you're not happy. You just continue
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just to dominate. You set a tone and you continue to dominate. It just feels like combination of
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Zealand have just come off where they have been for decades. I'm in the expectation and all of that
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all that just might become becomes pressure. Manifesto does pressure on the pitch and guys feel
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in that pressure. Not wanting to make a mistake or build that foundation. I've got some wins
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and then you can start to thrive and do what New Zealand did in the past. But as well as that,
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Australia, I think Australia, you're very good. I think they've turned the corner massively
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under Schmidt and just what's acceptable with the level of performance that we can expect from
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a lot of international teams, especially in the rugby championship, is real competition.
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On Argentina, it was a bit of a blip in the second half. They got really blown away. But
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everybody's getting blown away. So I forget the minute. Argentina, I think we'll compete next week.
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I think Australia will compete next week as well. But the point of making is the competition is
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so fierce now that New Zealand can't just cruise into running away with games like they would have
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in the past and everybody needs to get used to that. JK, it's just tough because you haven't had it
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that way for so long. Trembley, we're not going to get used to it. There's no way we're
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going to get used to it because it's not what we do. I think you really need to get used to being
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number two in the world. So go on, let that go as well. Well, I'm waiting for you guys when
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you're number one because when you're number one according to you, you play like shit. So that's
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what I'm waiting for. Number one at the moment, don't we? No, you're not number one yet, mate. You
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got to wait till next week. We're still number one. I think we would number one after we do number one.
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This is last week. I didn't read that article, but I'm trying to ignore you, Victor, but Trembley,
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I think the valid point in Victor, you raised it as well. One of the hardest things that New Zealand
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did was we played the house down in between World Cup and then between 87 in 2011, the pressure
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really got to us and that's what I felt. And then from 2011, we won two in a row and that team was
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the team that I believe, you know, if there were 20 points up, they'd put 60 on you and you probably
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lived that two Victor, right? But I just feel there's a little bit of a hand break on at the moment
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with this team and they are suffering from pressure, but that's not acceptable. I think what you've
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got to be able to do if you're wearing that all black jersey is you got to walk towards that pressure.
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Yeah, they came off a hiding. Yeah, our record is probably not what it has been, but you've
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still got to be able to play with confidence and play in New Zealand style once you get those
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points ahead. So I think it's a thing that Gilbert and Oka used to talk about, you know, and
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you know, redhead and bluehead about how you're reacting under pressure. So for me, you know,
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they played even with 20 points up as if they were worried about winning. So that's something,
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I think you need to discuss as a team. Are we suffering from the pressure? Try and be right?
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And I don't want to bring this up again, but like you guys when you go to wheelcups, right?
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I'm sorry, you don't want to bring that up. Yeah, I didn't want to bring it up, but I've decided to
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do anyway. Good deflection. And the same thing, the same thing would have happened if the English
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woman hadn't of one. You know, there's these moments where it creates 10 times more pressure,
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and Ireland is going to be that until they get the monkey off their back at world rugby.
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And I felt that we were feeling a little bit like that on Saturday, and it might have been because
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of we're losing to celebrate our record on blah, blah, blah. But it's still not acceptable.
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You have to work mentally to get through that. I just think there's more. So next week,
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I mean, Scotland's obviously back with Laura Schale. Valentini injured on available. I know what
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the crack is there. James, he's going to be back. Okay. I'm going to make a big difference
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of these as we saw with the second test in the Lions. James or Conrad, I don't think is the
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solution at 10. They can do a lot more of their team. McDermott went off early. Like there's a lot
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of things that were disruptive for Australia away on the road in New Zealand. And yet they still
25:15
made it very, very competitive. So I think next week's going to be really tough. JK is going to be
25:20
long. Long afternoon. It'll take a big performance to go on the road in Australia, I think.
25:26
What's New Zealand going to do in our 10 with Bowdoin being out? Are they just going back to
25:31
Damon McKenzie or is the new kid around? That's what we've been talking about. Use the youngster
25:37
thing that can fall at roll. That's one of our issues, Victor. I don't think our depth
25:46
at this current level is there. I think Rubin love will step into that space and we need to give
25:52
him game time there. I really like Rubin. I think he's an outstanding fullback and I think he can
25:56
be a great 10. And I think what we learned in the 2011 World Cup is you actually need to be
26:05
standoffs. You've got them. And so they're quick at the moment, I believe. We have two and we need
26:11
to create our third and he needs to play and we need to bring some young guys in and start playing
26:16
them. So a leaf out of your South African book is something that I think we need to do in the next
26:21
two years. And Trimby's same thing happens with Ireland, right? When you get a dominant first
26:29
five, you've got to build someone with depth. So you've had Johnny who's just left us and
26:37
how's that get looking? So we're the same, Victor. And I'm really hoping that they're going to give
26:41
Rubin a run this week. I think he's a real talented young player and I think he can be a really
26:46
good team as well. Yeah. So yeah, it's I think it's it's having that competition and bring it,
26:52
you know, kind of pushing each other on Jack Crowley and Sam Pregnigast obviously are going to
26:56
hopefully be good for each other, but they're both still young both. You just need to get that
27:02
experience and on time in the saddle. But yeah, once once Johnny got sex and it's been too
27:07
dominant for so long, then you create a problem ultimately of all the big performances of the weekend.
27:13
And South Africa was one of the GZ industry, a good game, but ever the big performance were on the
27:18
golf course. Let's face it. It was, you know, Europe and the right and the writer called first
27:23
couple days, then you asked points back, but Victor, your chip at half time.
27:29
Did they share it? I was worried if they share it with it. You see, that was my side. It's
27:35
the best point moment of the weekend, I think. And you backed it up. You did it twice. Why?
27:41
Did Burmese didn't know what to do. Killing out chip by a sinking roger. It's just all about
27:48
you need to get a job. South Africa is just a job, but you wait, you wait too good at golf to have
27:53
a real job. So obviously you just play golf. Love the big moments of Africans. And that's why we
27:57
double world champs. I had to put it in there. I haven't mentioned it yet today. Yeah. Yeah.
28:03
Yeah, because earlier on, you were talking about high. Oh, you know, we're going to make some changes
28:07
this weekend. I felt like you were sticking to the party line that that fake humility. Let's call
28:12
the fake humility. Well, yeah, I was trying. I was trying. Yeah. And the mask slipped and we saw
28:19
the real South African. Yeah. We should have like a big one. And that's why that's why actually
28:25
you're right. You need to be very, very careful. I think you could be imagine if you guys lose
28:30
and took them and you're not very good at taking them to be fair. What do you mean? I don't think
28:35
we've lost in 10 years. Come on, mate. Well, I remember that. That's why I played them with
28:41
took them. J.K. Can you remember that? I don't need you reminding me. I'll try to meet you.
28:47
Remember that. But I think we need to make sure that every show we get someone, you know,
28:53
the victor says how many times South Africa's won the World Cup that J.K. mentions the fact that
28:57
Ireland kept getting knocked out in the World Cup quarterfinals. And then Trimby will get one
29:03
for you. So we just make sure we have that consistency every week that we've always got those
29:07
productive. I'm too unpredictable. I'm too unpredictable. I need to what I say. Do I need to
29:13
bring up that I think Super Rugby's finished in this hemisphere again or not? So I'm going to
29:17
listen to that or not. Maybe Trimby would enjoy talking about Lains this performance this weekend
29:23
starting in the U.R.C. getting stressed by the stormers. I am as happy with that. That's why I say
29:29
you are a victor. You love it. We're not. It concerns me for Chicago, but I'm happy with it for
29:34
now. It was because most of the players are playing for South Africa Victor. That's true as well.
29:39
They keep players. But when you're talking about the performance of the week, you talk about the
29:44
rider cup. But one of the great performances was England winning the Women's World Cup because
29:48
they have been such a dominant team for so many years and to finally get that World Cup winners
29:55
medal in front of a massive, massive crowd was a huge event. Yeah. Great success. Great success.
30:02
I mean, we actually picked it on the show. When you go into World Cup like that and you've been
30:10
dominant and you lose to New Zealand down here, I just think that I'm just really pleased for
30:15
them as athletes. I think they deserved it. I think they played well. I played with much John
30:19
Mitchell. He's a great coach who's been for the highest level so he knows how to win. I just
30:25
think they thoroughly deserved it. At the moment though, but like South African men, they're
30:29
setting the pace and setting the level in the female game. I was really disappointed with our results
30:36
from our New Zealand team. I felt that we should have made the final. If we've made the final,
30:42
then it's anyone's game. I think so I was pretty disappointed. I know they'll be disappointed. I
30:47
think we need to have a look at our high performance pathways for both our men and our women at the
30:53
moment. I think we need to take, as Victor's mentioned, losing to South African, the World Cup and then
30:58
us coming third in the Women's World Cup. You need to start looking and asking some honest
31:05
questions. For me, I think they deserved it and they're setting the standard, both I think
31:12
from a crowd point of view, from a competition point of view, from a payment point of view.
31:17
What do we need to do to get back there? It's a good point actually because when you don't
31:25
perform, that honesty is really important to make sure you improve and get better. As athletes,
31:32
the Black Furns will be sitting there going, we're not happy with what happened. It starts from
31:38
now. We start trying to win the next World Cup from today or from whenever they lost. I just
31:44
want to add to that, Ricardo, because I think the female game has improved so much that there's
31:49
still some sides that we're just really happy to participate and I think that's important.
31:55
But there are more and more female sides that can win this. We're now extended the amount of
32:01
people that can go and win that World Cup and so it becomes a really, really good competition.
32:06
And it's something that I think rugby means rugby has been doing over the last 20 years,
32:11
where teams are more and more competitive and it's going to get harder and harder and that's how it
32:16
should be. So really a chance for any other team except England and New Zealand to have won that.
32:22
Isn't that something that Canada may be, but isn't that something that the women's game need to
32:29
work on is to really put an effort into some other teams. I mean, we've tried to make
32:36
women's rugby professional, we've got one professional team, they'll need to pump money into
32:41
that to really get their goals to be able to train full year if they won the other teams to be competitive
32:48
at that level. Yeah, so I think Victor, the answer is it's very, very difficult and I don't know what
32:54
it's like in Ireland should be, but you need to invest in the women's game without much financial
33:00
return and that you have to invest in that. And I know New Zealand rugby has invested an incredible
33:06
amount of money. You need this game as well. They must trade their own pipeline of FFK. Yeah, exactly.
33:12
And they will, I mean, they will, they will become standalone, but initially I think South Africa,
33:18
you know, what they need to do is actually invest in the female game so that they get the results,
33:23
but you might not get that payback for 10 years. So it is an investment. You know, I think,
33:29
I think like I said, some teams, like I don't know if you saw, you know, there's some Owens
33:34
women's team where they were just so happy to be there and so happy to play. And I think that's
33:39
important in the path. The next step to that is, you know, they've got to start having the strength
33:45
and the competition behind them to start competing. What about the Irish? How did they see the
33:51
women's World Cup? I think they saw that or definitely saw the World Cup as a whole as a success.
33:56
I think I think they were pleased. They're disappointed in the way things went. They probably
34:02
an opportunity to big first time performance and then got knocked out. And I think they felt
34:08
like they left a little bit out there. But more generally, the World Cup was was a big success. And
34:13
and JK, you're talking about, you know, having a rationale to invest in this, you may not get a
34:18
return for five, 10 years. But I think that that rationale, the some of that risk has been
34:23
mitigated by the quality of the World Cup. And the pathways, yes, well, the conversation with that,
34:28
the professionalism, yes, the product, all that, yes. But people want to see this. So there's
34:33
there are big crowds turning up to watch women's rugby and to watch a woman's rugby World Cup.
34:38
That's the most important thing. So what that says is commercially, this could be viable.
34:43
Maybe sooner than we think or maybe it gives a rationale, mitigates the risk of investing
34:48
for a long period of time and not getting anything back. So I think it's probably good that England
34:53
want it because that's going to be the hotbed of of of women's rugby. And it's the rest of the
34:59
world's kind of going to get the crumbs from that table of FEMA suppose. So yeah, that's the
35:05
most important thing. Yeah, we can talk a bit pathways that we can talk about New Zealand getting
35:09
ready for the next World Cup all a lot on professionalism. Yes, that will improve the product,
35:14
but we've demonstrated that we can create something with a bit of a bosom people will turn up
35:20
in their droves. Sounds like as well. There's a lot of new people victor to your point, new people
35:26
to women's rugby. They haven't just come across from the man's game. So I mean, that's going to help
35:30
the man's game as well. They're all going to feed each other and the pie is going to get bigger
35:35
and more generally. Yeah, and the thing is, I mean, you know, this this show case of point, we've
35:39
got three miserable sides like you three, but whereas you watch the women's World Cup, the players
35:44
are personalities. They have fun, they're small, they're dancing around, you know, so that's driving
35:49
attention and people are going along to watch their following them on social media. So, you know,
35:54
there is a there is an ethos around women's rugby that is attractive to fans and that's why we've
35:59
got such great numbers. JK was dancing around as well last week, weren't you? JK. Yeah, my stage.
36:06
Yeah, I think it's a really good point, Ricardo. I think that, you know, we've we've media trained
36:14
out of a lot of our men with the personalities and we need to get back to having personalities in our
36:19
game. And when you see, you know, your South African women's team victor dancing onto the onto the
36:27
paddock, that is what people want to see. And I think that, you know, we've over done it in the
36:33
men's game. So we've lost, I'm talking about New Zealand, I've done about in Ireland and, but,
36:38
you know, you talk to some of our male athletes and it's like restock standard answers instead of,
36:44
you know, we want to see a bit more personality, I believe. And the female game interesting thing
36:48
for me, trimby is in New Zealand, it did bring a different audience. And I don't know if the game
36:53
was ready to keep captured. So we need to, I think the female game needs to understand whether they
37:00
follow the means from a tournament point of view or a crowd point of view or a location point of view.
37:06
You know, we're really fortunate down in this part of the world that our our females can go and play
37:10
rugby league as well. There's no rules that can go within seasons. And, and I just think it needs to
37:16
be a different, a different clientele and a different way we promote that game.
37:21
Jack, that's a really good point. I mean, about how important of this, you know, let's look at the
37:26
men's game to let personalities be personalities. Russ is a great point, you know, like we need people
37:33
that are big personalities that are different to sell the game because it's competitive for attention
37:38
now. And we need, we need those big personalities. And so as a game, and it's not only the game,
37:43
but the fans, you know, they've got us, you know, they criticize someone because they're a bit different,
37:47
you know, because they wear stupid glasses because they dance at, you know, all they, you know,
37:53
like Russie puts up videos or stuff. But we need those personalities. Victor, I didn't realize that
37:58
you had a sense of human. Now that, you know, after all that time watching you on the field playing,
38:02
I thought, ah, he's a grumpy bug. We're not actually got a smile. We're not allowed to. And so
38:06
that's good. You need to be focused. No smiles. So Russie's changed the business. I mean, you still get
38:13
the CR and Ox coming out singing. And then just behind them, you'll see Louis, then you have a
38:18
not smiling, just standing up straight. So we can start our own personalities. We weren't allowed
38:23
to smile in the bus. And I must say, the one guy that taught me that was Laurie Mainz. I played
38:28
with him with a catch for a year or two with Russie. And from a Wednesday, if he saw you smile,
38:34
anyway, close to the change in your room, you wouldn't play on the set of that. It's just like,
38:38
yeah. So yeah, learn from him. So yeah, it's probably a good time to stop. Now that Victor's
38:46
talking about smiling, you've been enough smiling this week. And yeah, you comfortable going into
38:52
London, you know, because obviously big South African fan base in London, playing Argentina.
38:58
Yes, I would have been worried. Of course, like I always say, we're not as good when everything
39:04
is going well. But I think what's happening within that squad and playing players pushing to stay
39:14
in the mix, I think there'll be a few changes and those guys will also steep up and show, listen,
39:19
we can still do this. And JK, it's really important for the all blacks that they string two
39:24
performance together, you're comfortable against Australia and Perth. We need five points, Matt.
39:30
We need, so they're going to lose. And if they don't lose, they need to win by four. And then we
39:38
need to win by five. And then I think we're all drawn up again. And I don't know what he's doing.
39:43
Point of offense. Let's see. That's what that's the thing to keep finishing within your own hands.
39:49
Don't let it hope someone else lose or whatever. Just focusing on Victor. Victor, go back to drinking
39:57
that pink water bottle, mate. I've had enough of this today. My creativity. We're looking for
40:02
thank you for doing that. Looking for the same logic. I go, Trimby. Yeah, you're coming.
40:07
Trimby. How much can I go? Yeah. I'm going to see you there, my brother. See you there.
40:12
One of us will be happy. I'm a big Argentina. I'm an Australia fan this weekend.
40:17
Am I clear? Clear my schedule. If the two games go the way I want them to go, I'll be here.
40:25
Cheers. Right, it stopped now. That's enough rivals for this week.