Latest / Ministry Minded / On Advent, the Church, and Longing for Christ in the Psalms with Raphael Mnkandhla and Trevor Route

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On Advent, the Church, and Longing for Christ in the Psalms with Raphael Mnkandhla and Trevor Route · Ministry Minded

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SPEAKER_03: Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of the Ministry Minded Podcast,
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a show that seeks to marvel at the mercy of God that meets us
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in our messy
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SPEAKER_03: ministries.
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SPEAKER_03: I'm, of course, your host, Pastor Brad Gray.
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I serve as the senior pastor of Stonington Baptist Church in
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Pax Sinus,
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Pennsylvania.
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And I am so delighted to be joined on this particular episode
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of the show by two
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SPEAKER_03: fellow pastors,
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SPEAKER_03: but more than that,
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SPEAKER_03: two pastors.
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SPEAKER_03: Dear Brothers and Friends in Ministry.
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SPEAKER_03: Of course, I'm talking about Raphael M. Condla and Trevor Rout.
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They are both serving as pastors up at City Church in
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Williamsport,
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Pennsylvania.
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SPEAKER_03: And Raphael and Trevor are just dear friends and brothers in ministry.
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SPEAKER_03: And I was so happy that they were not only,
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SPEAKER_03: number one,
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wanting to make a trek down to see me a little bit hours south
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of where they serve
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SPEAKER_03: in ministry,
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SPEAKER_03: but just to hang out and talk about theology,
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SPEAKER_03: talk about what books we're reading,
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SPEAKER_03: talk about different writing projects and what we're preaching on today.
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SPEAKER_03: And,
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SPEAKER_03: of course,
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SPEAKER_03: as it usually happens when we get together,
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SPEAKER_03: we have long conversations,
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SPEAKER_03: and this one happens to be recorded.
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SPEAKER_03: So we got to sit down and record this episode.
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SPEAKER_03: I have to apologize.
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SPEAKER_03: I was hoping to get this episode in a video format as well,
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SPEAKER_03: but,
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SPEAKER_03: of course,
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SPEAKER_03: as with technology,
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SPEAKER_03: the video didn't work out.
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SPEAKER_03: So,
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SPEAKER_03: unfortunately,
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SPEAKER_03: you're stuck with just audio this time,
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SPEAKER_03: but hopefully in the near future,
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SPEAKER_03: future episodes of the Ministry Minded Podcast will be
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SPEAKER_03: audio and video long-term going forward.
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SPEAKER_03: But regardless, I had a great time talking with Raphael and Trevor.
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SPEAKER_03: We just talk about the heaviness of ministry,
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SPEAKER_03: the loneliness of ministry,
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SPEAKER_03: and why Advent specifically
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SPEAKER_03: is functioning as this,
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SPEAKER_03: well,
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SPEAKER_03: we had a lot of mixed metaphors in this particular episode,
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but the one that seemed to stuck is that Advent is like gospel
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smelling salts that
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SPEAKER_03: wake up sinners and saints to not only the reality that Christ has come,
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SPEAKER_03: but that he will come again.
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SPEAKER_03: And this is what...
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SPEAKER_03: lifts up the heavy laden.
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SPEAKER_03: This is what lifts up the heads of those who are downcast.
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SPEAKER_03: If you are a weary Christian,
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SPEAKER_03: a discouraged Christian,
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or maybe you're a Christian in a church who is feeling the
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tension and the tautness
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SPEAKER_03: of the Advent season,
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SPEAKER_03: of the holiday season,
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SPEAKER_03: I hope that this conversation will be a blessing to you,
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SPEAKER_03: reminding you of what this season is meant to do.
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SPEAKER_03: It's meant to jumpstart your faith.
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SPEAKER_03: It's meant to remind you
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SPEAKER_03: of what is not only what is most important.
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SPEAKER_03: It's not just that cliche reason for the season sort of thing,
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SPEAKER_03: but it is what is substantial,
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SPEAKER_03: what is substantiating,
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what is sustaining us throughout the ups and downs of life when
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we are tired,
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SPEAKER_03: when we are weary.
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SPEAKER_03: Advent is this reminder that there is fresh hope to be found.
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SPEAKER_03: There are new mercies that are fresh every morning.
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SPEAKER_03: And that's not just true during the season.
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SPEAKER_03: It's true all year round, of course.
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But I was so delighted to talk about that and so much more with
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Trevor and Raphael.
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So sit back and relax and enjoy this episode as we just have a
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great conversation together.
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SPEAKER_03: We encourage one another.
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SPEAKER_03: I found just a great encouragement just talking with them.
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SPEAKER_03: So I hope that you do as well.
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SPEAKER_03: and that you find some blessing as we talk about Advent,
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SPEAKER_03: ministry,
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SPEAKER_03: pastoral weariness,
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SPEAKER_03: and how we can find hope in the message that the Advent season brings.
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SPEAKER_03: So, enjoy.
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SPEAKER_03: Raphael and Trevor, welcome back.
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SPEAKER_03: Actually, welcome for the first time, Trevor.
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SPEAKER_03: Yes, thank you.
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You're a virgin on the Ministry of Mind podcast,
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but I'm glad to have you here.
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Ralph,
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my good friend,
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coming down,
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coming down,
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making it down to good old Sunbury land.
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SPEAKER_00: How are you doing?
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SPEAKER_00: I am doing well.
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SPEAKER_00: Doing well.
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SPEAKER_00: It's good to be back.
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SPEAKER_03: Yes.
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SPEAKER_03: It's glad to have you.
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Why don't you introduce yourself since it's been a while since
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you've been on the show.
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And Trevor also,
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why don't you introduce yourself since it's your first time.
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SPEAKER_03: So go ahead, Raph.
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SPEAKER_00: Well,
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SPEAKER_00: I am Rafael Mgandla,
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SPEAKER_00: pastor at City Church in Williamsport,
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SPEAKER_00: PA,
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SPEAKER_00: and also an Old Testament professor,
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SPEAKER_00: a church history professor at Grimkey Seminary.
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SPEAKER_00: And yeah, that's a father.
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SPEAKER_00: to six children, husband to one wife.
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SPEAKER_00: What else?
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SPEAKER_00: I don't have cattle.
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SPEAKER_00: You don't have cattle?
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SPEAKER_00: Yet.
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SPEAKER_00: Yes.
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SPEAKER_00: I was going to say some African stuff.
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SPEAKER_00: How long have you been at City Church, Rob?
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SPEAKER_00: I've been at City Church for 11 years, going to 12 now.
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SPEAKER_00: God has been so gracious with us.
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SPEAKER_00: We've seen just so much growth, so much gospel growth.
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yeah,
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and they still love to call me their pastor,
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so that's a good thing.
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SPEAKER_03: And how long have you worked with this guy?
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Probably we're going to at least three...
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Yeah,
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it's like three,
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three and a half years now.
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SPEAKER_00: Three and a half years, but I know Trevor since he was...
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SPEAKER_00: I was going to say an annoying college student.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
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so since he was a college student and then eventually started
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coming to City
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SPEAKER_00: Church,
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SPEAKER_00: became a member,
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SPEAKER_00: went to work for Crew,
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SPEAKER_00: and I'm actually introducing you now.
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SPEAKER_00: And then just that's also just been always a joy for us.
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to see people who have come for college and actually just in
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ministry and to see
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SPEAKER_00: Christ form people,
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SPEAKER_00: develop them through the local church.
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SPEAKER_00: Who are you, Trevor?
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SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
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SPEAKER_02: I'm also at City Church.
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SPEAKER_02: I'm a pastoral assistant,
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SPEAKER_02: elder candidate,
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SPEAKER_02: all those things,
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SPEAKER_02: training to be a pastor at City Church.
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SPEAKER_02: I have been there for about three years in that capacity,
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SPEAKER_02: but as Raf said,
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SPEAKER_02: I started going there in college.
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SPEAKER_02: I think it was like 2018.
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SPEAKER_02: The summer of 2018, I think, is when I started going there consistently.
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SPEAKER_02: And,
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SPEAKER_02: yeah,
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SPEAKER_02: stuck around,
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but then had some seasons where I wasn't there and then came
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back and all that.
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SPEAKER_02: So, yeah.
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SPEAKER_03: And when did you kind of like feel this...
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notion that god was calling you into ministry had that been
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there for a while or
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did that kind of like was that like a gradual thing or is that
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kind of like a
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sudden thing like can you can you share about that a little bit
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yeah so i would say
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SPEAKER_02: there was always like i grew up in the church yeah and i always felt this
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undercurrent of like how i kind of feel called to ministry but
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i didn't really know
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SPEAKER_02: what to do with it and i just assumed
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SPEAKER_02: oh, this is what everyone that's a Christian feels.
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Everyone has this desire on some level of being a pastor or
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being involved in
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SPEAKER_02: ministry or something.
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SPEAKER_02: It took me a long time to realize that's not the case.
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SPEAKER_02: Because then I would talk to people later on,
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SPEAKER_02: and they're like,
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SPEAKER_02: oh,
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SPEAKER_02: yeah,
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SPEAKER_02: I've never felt that before.
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SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh, okay, this is unique.
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But I went to Penn College because my parents thought it would
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be good for me to...
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have some kind of non-bible degree as like a backup plan or if
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I wanted to be bivocational.
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SPEAKER_02: I'm from a small town, so lots of people are bivocational in ministry.
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SPEAKER_02: So after I graduated college at Penn College,
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SPEAKER_02: well,
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SPEAKER_02: during my time at Penn College,
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SPEAKER_02: I was very involved with CRU,
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SPEAKER_02: formerly called Campus Crusade for Christ.
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And I was challenged my senior year to take the next year or
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two to intern with CRU.
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So I ended up doing one year at Penn College,
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which was a great opportunity.
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I learned a lot of very practical ministry skills of how do you
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disciple someone,
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SPEAKER_02: how do you lead a Bible study,
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SPEAKER_02: things like that.
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SPEAKER_02: And then the next year I got the opportunity to go overseas.
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SPEAKER_02: So I was in the Middle East for a year with crew.
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SPEAKER_02: When I got done with that, I was kind of wrestling with what to do.
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SPEAKER_02: And then I was challenged to do an internship at a church in Wellsboro.
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SPEAKER_02: where that's where I really felt like,
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SPEAKER_02: oh,
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SPEAKER_02: okay,
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SPEAKER_02: I feel called to the local church,
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SPEAKER_02: not just like this vague ministry thing of like,
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SPEAKER_02: you know,
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SPEAKER_02: I want,
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SPEAKER_02: not really knowing what to do with that,
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SPEAKER_02: but being like,
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SPEAKER_00: oh,
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SPEAKER_02: okay,
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SPEAKER_02: I love the local church,
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SPEAKER_02: and I want to be in the local church,
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SPEAKER_02: and I want to pastor in some capacity.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then I ended up at City Church,
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because of some some circumstances where the associate pastor
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was being deployed
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and so they needed someone to come on and help fill in while he
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was gone and yeah I
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guess I did a good enough job that they kept me around after
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that so yeah you guess
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yeah I guess yeah or they just haven't wanted you know there
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was too much effort to
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SPEAKER_02: fire me after that so yeah
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SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
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SPEAKER_03: so without getting too much into the weeds,
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how has it been developing a pastoral relationship with Raph
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and Raph with Trevor?
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I know working with assistant pastor can sometimes be this hit
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or miss thing.
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SPEAKER_03: I'm very blessed here where I am at Studdington.
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SPEAKER_03: Me and Pastor Eric have a really good relationship.
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SPEAKER_03: I think that should be more of the...
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more of the norm where you have this really trusting
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relationship with your assistant pastor.
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SPEAKER_03: It's not like you two are trying to do different things,
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SPEAKER_03: but you're really in the trenches with this brother.
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SPEAKER_03: You're not like an elder.
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SPEAKER_03: It's not really like a boss dynamic.
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SPEAKER_03: It's more of like, no, we're two pastors
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struggling for the same thing if that makes sense so like how
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have you seen that
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develop in both of you and like and where has that really like
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hit home especially
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for the people of city church and williamsport yeah uh i mean
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so one of the biggest
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things is obviously when you look and you see um you look and
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you see in in the new
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SPEAKER_00: testament specifically with paul i was thinking recently about um
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SPEAKER_00: 2 Corinthians chapter 7,
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SPEAKER_00: where Paul says that,
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SPEAKER_00: like,
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SPEAKER_00: man,
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SPEAKER_00: in pastoral ministry,
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SPEAKER_00: obviously,
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SPEAKER_00: he's like,
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SPEAKER_00: we had no rest.
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SPEAKER_00: We had trouble from every side, fears within, you know what I'm saying?
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SPEAKER_00: He says attacks from coming from outside.
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But then God,
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who comforts the downcast,
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comforted us by the coming of Titus.
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SPEAKER_03: Yes.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: Like,
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SPEAKER_00: I was just kind of thinking about that and just saying that,
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SPEAKER_00: like,
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SPEAKER_00: what really we need in ministry,
10:45
SPEAKER_00: first of all,
10:46
SPEAKER_00: before we,
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SPEAKER_00: it can be the deliverables.
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SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: I think the,
10:52
SPEAKER_00: because there's the job description,
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SPEAKER_00: what needs to be done day in,
10:56
SPEAKER_00: day out,
10:56
SPEAKER_00: and all that.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: What we need, deeply need, first of all, is just partners in ministry.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: And Paul says that, like,
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SPEAKER_00: man, like I was comforted by just the coming of Titus.
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SPEAKER_00: It's just that.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: So for me,
11:12
SPEAKER_00: that's really just where,
11:15
SPEAKER_00: you know,
11:15
when you plant a church or you replant a church and you're in
11:19
the trenches and
11:20
SPEAKER_00: you're doing work,
11:22
SPEAKER_00: sometimes it's a very lonely endeavor.
11:26
And just having someone that like now,
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obviously like through,
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you've hung out with us so much.
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You even say that,
11:35
like,
11:35
man,
11:35
you guys sound like,
11:37
you know,
11:37
it's just like,
11:38
because we joke.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: Like an old married couple.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we joke, we laugh, we're kind of taking jabs and all that stuff.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: First of all,
11:44
SPEAKER_00: because that's now the camaraderie of we're fighting for the same thing,
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SPEAKER_00: but at the same time,
11:51
SPEAKER_00: this is just partnership in ministry.
11:54
Like where at the end of the day,
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it's like it's a heavy week,
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it's a hard week.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: Like you know you're not alone.
12:01
And it's days when we're rejoicing because like something
12:06
really great happened
12:07
like last week with so many ministry kind of just like things
12:11
that were just like,
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SPEAKER_00: wow,
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we did a lot this last weekend and we're tired and,
12:18
but yet we are rejoicing over what God is.
12:21
So it's shared joys,
12:22
shared sorrows,
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shared kind of like burdens and all that stuff.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: And, and then just that whole idea that like, Hey, you're not alone.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: You're moving down.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: And then,
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SPEAKER_00: And then obviously like just,
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SPEAKER_00: and you're also helping each other see where God's grace is at work.
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SPEAKER_00: So for me,
12:41
SPEAKER_00: that's been the,
12:42
before you can kind of just go down to the deliverables and
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stuff like that,
12:47
SPEAKER_00: just the idea of,
12:49
SPEAKER_00: you know,
12:50
SPEAKER_00: Paul,
12:51
SPEAKER_00: Jesus has the disciples and he's like,
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SPEAKER_00: couldn't you have prayed with me a little bit more?
12:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, and you've got Paul who's got people with him.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: You've got,
13:02
SPEAKER_00: you know,
13:03
Peter who's got probably even John Mark and all these other
13:06
disciples around him.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: Somehow, somehow there's a way in which even Jesus sends them two by two.
13:13
There's a way in which it's like just having someone down the
13:16
hall that you can be
13:18
SPEAKER_00: able to like...
13:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just discuss through something, clear the fog together.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: Process.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: You know, push through the fog.
13:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: And then, like, come out and, like, yeah.
13:31
There are some times when he's just basically like,
13:33
hey,
13:33
man,
13:34
can we just take a walk?
13:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: I know you've had a really tough week.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that's what it takes.
13:41
SPEAKER_03: I think your note about, like, Jesus sending out the apostles is,
13:44
in twos is a very like poignant point especially when it comes
13:48
to ministry just
13:49
because like it can be isolating you can feel like you're kind
13:53
of like this lone
13:54
wolf thing and I think there's also this element and this is
13:56
not what I wanted to
13:57
talk about but we're going to talk about it anyway but there is
13:59
like this element
14:00
SPEAKER_03: where I think sometimes we think of Paul as like this
14:04
SPEAKER_03: like rock star, celebrity, preacher type of character.
14:07
SPEAKER_03: But I think what's so fascinating,
14:08
SPEAKER_03: as you're kind of mentioning,
14:09
like there's a reason why all of Paul's letters end with like
14:13
all of these names.
14:15
SPEAKER_03: He was so dependent.
14:17
SPEAKER_03: And so many different ways on the church family,
14:21
SPEAKER_03: what's broader than just going here and preaching and going there.
14:25
SPEAKER_03: There were so many elders,
14:27
there were so many deacons and pastors that Paul was in
14:31
ministry with at the same
14:32
SPEAKER_03: time.
14:33
I think what's fascinating is that church history,
14:36
some of those names are kind of lost.
14:38
We don't know all of the different ways in which the people
14:41
that he mentions at the
14:41
SPEAKER_03: end of Romans...
14:43
SPEAKER_03: had impacted him, and yet he was like, these are my fellow workers.
14:47
SPEAKER_03: And so to be called a fellow worker along with Paul,
14:50
SPEAKER_03: I think that's a really fascinating dynamic.
14:52
SPEAKER_03: And it just speaks to,
14:53
SPEAKER_03: again,
14:53
SPEAKER_03: that as a pastor of this church here,
14:58
SPEAKER_03: I'm not building the kingdom of Stonington.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: No,
15:01
SPEAKER_03: we together,
15:02
SPEAKER_03: even within this central Pennsylvania Valley,
15:04
SPEAKER_03: we are building the kingdom of God.
15:06
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's a way different dynamic than anything else.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's just...
15:11
SPEAKER_00: Just looking at that,
15:13
SPEAKER_00: and this is probably one of the things that's been kind of brewing,
15:17
SPEAKER_00: like,
15:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm all about pastoral resilience.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: And just looking at,
15:22
SPEAKER_00: and I was thinking about it and working through it,
15:25
SPEAKER_00: and looking at even just how Paul in Romans 16,
15:29
SPEAKER_00: this last week,
15:30
SPEAKER_00: I was even chuckling over the fact that,
15:31
SPEAKER_00: like,
15:32
SPEAKER_00: he says,
15:33
SPEAKER_00: like...
15:35
SPEAKER_00: I think the mother of so-and-so has also been a mother to me.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: Like,
15:39
SPEAKER_00: it's just like,
15:40
SPEAKER_00: where it's not only just like brothers,
15:42
SPEAKER_00: it's also sisters,
15:44
SPEAKER_00: it's also...
15:45
SPEAKER_00: And there are some people that basically are like,
15:47
SPEAKER_00: Paul,
15:48
SPEAKER_00: did you take your eye medicine?
15:50
SPEAKER_00: Are you okay?
15:52
SPEAKER_00: Paul is like...
15:53
SPEAKER_00: Bro, I've got mothers in the church.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: And so that's really, for me, has been just the joy that's there.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: Like, just the joy of sharing a yoke.
16:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: And then, like, and then plodding along.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: And probably...
16:10
talking me out of quitting every now and then every other week
16:16
right yeah yeah yeah
16:20
well i think like from my end just having someone that i have
16:24
like a mentor that i
16:26
look up to that's great um and a friend as well um it's been
16:31
very helpful just
16:32
SPEAKER_02: learning
16:34
ministry from that it's almost like an apprenticeship type
16:36
thing where raf is
16:37
taking me uh like that i would have had to learn on my own if i
16:42
had just accepted a
16:43
job at a church somewhere yeah um where he's like taking me
16:47
along to hospital
16:48
visits or giving me the opportunity to to lead staff meetings
16:53
or elder meetings or
16:56
um you know giving me opportunities to preach at the church but
16:59
also having an ear
17:01
to throw things at him of like hey i'm trying to work through
17:04
this passage what do
17:05
you think of this and working through some of that kind of
17:08
stuff the things you
17:09
know i think it was somebody i don't remember who talked about
17:12
it but like things i
17:13
didn't learn in seminary that was a famous i don't know if
17:17
that's a book or a clip
17:18
that i saw of like there's certain things you just like a book
17:21
title yeah it sounds
17:22
SPEAKER_02: like a book title it probably is somewhere
17:24
SPEAKER_02: But there's just some things that you can't learn from a book.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: You can read stories about it,
17:30
but there's things that you just have to do ministry to learn
17:33
how those things
17:34
SPEAKER_02: work.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's been a great opportunity to learn and grow alongside Raph.
17:45
SPEAKER_03: But I think there's also this element that
17:49
SPEAKER_03: I won't speak for every church,
17:51
SPEAKER_03: but I think by and large,
17:52
some churches haven't done a good job of the idea that we don't
17:55
do theology,
17:57
SPEAKER_03: or we don't even do quote-unquote discipleship.
18:00
SPEAKER_03: in a vacuum or in isolation from other people.
18:03
SPEAKER_03: Like, Christianity itself is a very community-driven religion.
18:09
SPEAKER_03: And it can't be done just like,
18:12
SPEAKER_03: you know,
18:12
SPEAKER_03: sometimes we have that old,
18:13
SPEAKER_03: like,
18:14
SPEAKER_03: notion of just,
18:14
SPEAKER_03: like,
18:15
SPEAKER_03: my Bible and me and my quiet time.
18:17
SPEAKER_03: And that's fine.
18:18
SPEAKER_03: But, like, especially...
18:20
SPEAKER_03: Like for pastors,
18:21
SPEAKER_03: but by and large,
18:22
SPEAKER_03: everyone in the pews to like doing theology is way better done,
18:26
SPEAKER_03: way more profitable,
18:27
beneficial when it's done in community with other people at the
18:31
same time,
18:31
which I think speaks to the notion that is set up in the in the
18:35
pastoral epistles,
18:36
SPEAKER_03: but elsewhere in the New Testament of of having multiple elders.
18:41
be doing theology for the local church being shepherds and
18:46
under shepherds at the
18:47
same time leading this church into growing likeness into Christ
18:51
and I think there's
18:52
a reason for that because trying to do theology in isolation
18:55
just is kind of like a
18:57
fool's errand I think it won't really end up well and you'll
18:59
probably like end up
19:00
you know saying some crazy thing like you're denying hell or
19:03
something like that
19:08
SPEAKER_03: Just kidding.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: No, that's good.
19:14
It really then at the end of the day becomes,
19:16
and I like that you say that.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: You've watched things like American Idol or
19:25
SPEAKER_00: Just any of these auditions and stuff like that.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: I don't make a regular habit of it.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: Or the voice or just like something.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: These talent shows rather.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: And you watch someone come up and they start singing and they're like,
19:40
SPEAKER_00: I've been doing this for a long time.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: And they start singing and then you're like...
19:45
SPEAKER_00: What is happening right now?
19:47
SPEAKER_00: What have you been doing for a long time?
19:49
SPEAKER_00: But here's what I always say.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: I just like,
19:53
SPEAKER_00: as soon as you hear that person and they're so,
19:56
they usually walk in with a strong self-esteem with a million
20:00
other things that are
20:01
SPEAKER_00: just like,
20:02
SPEAKER_00: and you think this is about to get good.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: And then literally it doesn't even take off.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't even take off.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: And then, so my question usually from there is like,
20:16
SPEAKER_00: who told you this was okay?
20:18
SPEAKER_03: Or who didn't tell you?
20:19
SPEAKER_00: Who didn't tell you?
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Who wasn't speaking into your life?
20:22
SPEAKER_00: Who wasn't being honest?
20:23
SPEAKER_00: Who was not being like, are you part of a family?
20:26
SPEAKER_00: Are you part of a community?
20:27
SPEAKER_00: Are you part of like, and then there's that part where I'm like,
20:32
SPEAKER_00: I don't think they love you.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: No, they do.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Or probably maybe they just have not.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: Or you're just not listening to them.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: Or you're not.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: And you're not being part of a community.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: I think it does not matter how grown you are, mature in the faith.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: Paul and everyone,
20:53
SPEAKER_00: even the son of God himself,
20:56
SPEAKER_00: in Advent here we are,
20:58
SPEAKER_00: is one also who's going to actually just,
21:02
SPEAKER_00: as he is going and he's in the garden,
21:04
SPEAKER_00: he wants,
21:04
SPEAKER_00: he's calling his disciples to pray with him.
21:10
Some of that stuff where you are seeing Jesus is not being this
21:14
lone ranger through
21:15
SPEAKER_00: and through.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: You're seeing that he was demonstrating how we belong to the body.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: And as a result of even just the things that we do,
21:29
SPEAKER_00: like the sacraments,
21:31
SPEAKER_00: are all pointing towards our communion together with others.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: That's right, there's an insistence.
21:38
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we even talk about that when it comes to like
21:41
worship like pray praising not yeah like because worship is
21:45
more than just the
21:46
singing part but many times we use it that way but the singing
21:50
typically like in
21:53
modern American evangelical the way you think about worship is
21:56
it's just you and
21:57
Jesus basically you're singing yeah and it's just the two of
22:00
you but hearing the
22:02
voice of the congregation is so important and it's like being
22:06
encouraged by one
22:07
SPEAKER_02: another especially you know Raph always talks about this of
22:12
you're hearing this lady next to you belt out this worship song
22:18
but you know that
22:20
she just got a diagnosis that she's feeling awful and yet or
22:25
she needs you to sing
22:26
SPEAKER_02: so that you can encourage her and
22:30
Seeing all these other saints in the church and knowing what
22:33
they're going through
22:34
SPEAKER_02: and thinking,
22:34
SPEAKER_02: oh,
22:35
SPEAKER_02: if they can sing in the midst of that,
22:37
SPEAKER_02: then I can go through whatever it is that I'm going through.
22:40
SPEAKER_02: And just seeing that worship is a communal thing.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: It's not just an individual thing.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: thing.
22:48
SPEAKER_03: And I think that changes the way Hebrews 10,
22:51
SPEAKER_03: the writer there is saying,
22:52
SPEAKER_03: don't forsake the assembling of yourselves together.
22:54
SPEAKER_03: And that's not necessarily just for your own walk with the Lord,
23:00
SPEAKER_03: but for everyone else at the same time.
23:04
SPEAKER_03: Like you're kind of saying, they need you.
23:06
SPEAKER_03: They need to see you sing.
23:08
SPEAKER_03: They need to see you responding.
23:10
SPEAKER_03: They need to see... And vice versa.
23:13
SPEAKER_03: That's kind of like the way in which the church is built up.
23:16
SPEAKER_03: It's not...
23:17
SPEAKER_03: This isolated thing.
23:18
SPEAKER_03: It's a community driven and really founded on...
23:24
the word of grace being proclaimed and doing that in community
23:29
with one another.
23:32
SPEAKER_03: I think when you read the book of Acts,
23:33
you see a number of those times where it talks about the
23:37
believers gathering.
23:39
SPEAKER_03: You always see it.
23:40
SPEAKER_03: They're coming together because they understand.
23:43
SPEAKER_03: As it's called in Acts, following the way
23:48
would be really difficult to do if you're just kind of on your
23:52
own like it's always
23:54
done in community in conjunction linking arms with someone as
23:57
you're following yeah
23:59
SPEAKER_00: I was also even thinking just that aspect of Titus came yeah and
24:05
SPEAKER_00: When Titus comes, Paul says, I'm comforted.
24:09
But he's even comforted even by,
24:11
he's like,
24:12
even more,
24:13
I'm comforted by you guys.
24:16
Hearing from,
24:17
and there's a way in which it's like,
24:19
he's saying,
24:20
I'm comforted by watching
24:23
SPEAKER_00: your repentance in action, your eagerness, your zeal.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: And there's got to be where Paul is like,
24:31
SPEAKER_00: man,
24:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm really downcast,
24:35
but I'm being lifted up by actually seeing how Christ is
24:39
actually working through
24:41
SPEAKER_00: the body,
24:42
SPEAKER_00: but also as well through the body at large when I'm actually watching
24:47
SPEAKER_00: even at this moment when it's like,
24:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm discouraged,
24:50
SPEAKER_00: and then you're still seeing other people that shouldn't have made it,
24:56
SPEAKER_00: but they've made it,
24:57
SPEAKER_00: and you're watching,
24:58
SPEAKER_00: man,
24:59
SPEAKER_00: the...
25:01
SPEAKER_00: In Corinth, basically, it's like the hodgepodge of sin galore.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: Everything is going crazy.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: Read 1 Corinthians.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: But then Paul is saying that,
25:12
SPEAKER_00: man,
25:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm seeing you guys making so much progress in following the Lord.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: And that's encouraging to me.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: So we need at least just that also, where we can be...
25:26
SPEAKER_00: where we're invited to come and see.
25:28
The fact that I know all of us,
25:34
just being a pastor,
25:36
that's so encouraging for me.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: one of the things that's so encouraging for me is,
25:43
SPEAKER_00: and I'm sure for you even here,
25:46
SPEAKER_00: you see it,
25:47
SPEAKER_00: you're standing in front,
25:49
SPEAKER_00: and you are aware of all the phone calls and every hospital,
25:53
SPEAKER_00: like somebody who's walking in,
25:56
SPEAKER_00: and there were these things,
25:58
SPEAKER_00: all of them are going on,
26:00
SPEAKER_00: and there's a way in which we were praying for each other,
26:03
SPEAKER_00: and then we make it on a Sunday.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: And you're seeing, it's like,
26:09
SPEAKER_00: It's just basically like we didn't think it was like,
26:13
SPEAKER_00: just to use war metaphor,
26:15
SPEAKER_00: it looked like everything was exploding,
26:18
SPEAKER_00: everyone was evacuating,
26:20
SPEAKER_00: everything was running and stuff,
26:22
SPEAKER_00: but we all made it to the safe zone.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: And in just this safe zone where we're like,
26:28
and we are all saying that we wouldn't have made it if it
26:32
wasn't for Jesus.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: I know we suffered.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: I know we've got...
26:37
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
26:38
SPEAKER_00: I know we've got wounds,
26:41
but now all of us are uniting and saying the name of the Lord
26:46
is a strong towel.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: We all run to it, and here we are.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: Is the pain gone?
26:52
SPEAKER_00: And then we're able to now encourage each other in that way.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the best thing about being in the body.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: And if we have an individualistic way of looking at church,
27:06
we are so limited on just even the outlook of...
27:12
And it's so easy for us to isolate after that.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: But if we have a holistic way of saying, man, even my pressing through...
27:22
i don't feel like being with other people but by and and other
27:27
people know it's
27:28
hard for me to be with other people at this moment grief wants
27:32
me to actually what
27:34
just go curl up and be by myself or these other issues but by
27:39
virtue of seeing me
27:40
SPEAKER_00: here another person is like oh so that's how you fight through this
27:46
SPEAKER_00: That's how you praise through this.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: That's how you hold on to Jesus through this.
27:52
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
27:54
It's surprising how encouraging it can be to some people just
27:58
that you're showing
27:59
SPEAKER_02: up on a Sunday.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: I think it was Barnabas that talked about that.
28:01
Barnabas Piper spoke at our men's retreat and he was saying
28:05
something along those lines and
28:07
I think of there's one individual that comes to church almost
28:10
every Sunday and he
28:12
SPEAKER_02: is going through like so much physical suffering because he has,
28:18
SPEAKER_02: is it Parkinson's?
28:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:19
SPEAKER_02: He has Parkinson's.
28:21
And I am always so incredibly encouraged when I see him on
28:26
Sunday and I see his
28:27
wife go up and get the communion elements for him and bring
28:30
them back to him.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: Because it's like...
28:32
SPEAKER_02: You have every excuse to not be here right now.
28:35
And yet you are like putting so much like time and energy and
28:39
pain into just being
28:41
SPEAKER_02: with the body.
28:43
SPEAKER_02: And I don't talk to him very much, but he's always so excited to see me.
28:46
SPEAKER_02: I'm always so excited to see him.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: And he's one of those guys that most people probably wouldn't know.
28:51
SPEAKER_02: But, man, I'm so encouraged by him every single Sunday.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: Just his presence.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: Just the fact that he's there.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: He's not serving.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: He can't really do anything.
29:00
But just the fact that he puts in so much effort just to be
29:03
there on Sunday mornings.
29:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:06
And I share that just to say,
29:07
like,
29:08
we don't realize that that is us sometimes,
29:11
other people.
29:12
SPEAKER_02: That's a great point.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: But here's the cool part.
29:15
SPEAKER_02: And he probably doesn't know that either.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: Oh, no.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: He now knows a little bit because I've had to tell him.
29:23
And where one time he said,
29:25
I just don't feel like I've got anything to do to serve.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, are you kidding me?
29:33
SPEAKER_00: And part of,
29:33
SPEAKER_00: actually,
29:34
SPEAKER_00: one of the things is that,
29:35
SPEAKER_00: and here is at least,
29:36
SPEAKER_00: like,
29:37
SPEAKER_00: just probably,
29:38
SPEAKER_00: like,
29:39
SPEAKER_00: one of the most encouraging things for me is for almost,
29:43
SPEAKER_00: like,
29:43
SPEAKER_00: six or seven years,
29:45
SPEAKER_00: like,
29:46
SPEAKER_00: there's never a time...
29:48
SPEAKER_00: Even this Sunday,
29:50
SPEAKER_00: if I woke up to him and I say,
29:53
SPEAKER_00: pray for me,
29:54
SPEAKER_00: he always would give me a hug fatherly.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: He'd give me a hug and he'd always kiss me on the cheek.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: And it's been so encouraging.
30:05
And he started doing this thing where he'd always just say,
30:08
let me pray for you,
30:09
Pastor.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: And he'll start praying for me with his hand in my back.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: And you can feel it's shaking because he can't keep it still.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: But he's done that faithfully.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: Even this Sunday, if I walk up to him and say, I say, pray for me.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: He does it with just,
30:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm talking about like,
30:31
SPEAKER_00: for the last 11 years,
30:33
SPEAKER_00: he's done that consistently.
30:36
And so whenever you was like,
30:38
I just don't feel like I bring much to the body.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: I was like, you have prayed for me.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: And not only just prayed for me and encouraged me, like,
30:49
SPEAKER_00: If I preach a sermon and I think, that was a dud.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: That was it.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: And I will get a text message.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: I'll get a text message from that couple saying, thank you so much.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: But yet, actually, I look at them and I'm like,
31:06
SPEAKER_00: You've been married for 50 plus years.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: And there's still something you're walking away with from here.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: And for me, once again, that's the beauty of the body.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
31:22
SPEAKER_03: I think that's an apt segue,
31:24
SPEAKER_03: though,
31:24
SPEAKER_03: into really what I wanted to have you guys talk about,
31:26
SPEAKER_03: which is Advent and the church,
31:30
SPEAKER_03: the church celebrating Advent.
31:32
SPEAKER_03: And I think this is an interesting dynamic.
31:35
SPEAKER_03: Our churches aren't necessarily high church congregations.
31:39
SPEAKER_03: We don't have this rich liturgy that we're following or whatever.
31:43
SPEAKER_03: But I still feel like,
31:46
SPEAKER_03: for whatever reason,
31:46
SPEAKER_03: every single time that we enter into this season of the year...
31:51
I feel this longing and this desire and this aspiration to
31:56
speak on the themes of Advent.
31:57
SPEAKER_03: So I always end up having some sort of Advent sermon series,
32:00
SPEAKER_03: even though we're not super liturgical.
32:03
SPEAKER_03: But I always think, too, that it's always a poignant reminder.
32:09
SPEAKER_03: Because again, what is Advent?
32:11
SPEAKER_03: We are remembering Jesus' first appearing while we await his second.
32:16
SPEAKER_03: And we're doing so being reminded of all of the hope,
32:20
SPEAKER_03: joy,
32:20
SPEAKER_03: peace,
32:20
SPEAKER_03: love,
32:21
all of those themes of Advent that is promised to us because of
32:24
what occurred 2,000
32:25
SPEAKER_03: odd years ago.
32:26
SPEAKER_03: So when we're entering into the season, I think there's a reason.
32:32
It's cliche now to make fun of the fact that we always go to
32:35
Luke 2 at this time of year.
32:37
SPEAKER_03: You should be preaching for Luke 2 the whole year.
32:39
SPEAKER_03: We only sing Hark the Herald Angels Sing in December.
32:44
SPEAKER_03: You could sing that all year long,
32:46
but we reserve these songs and these hymns and these sermons
32:52
just for this time of
32:53
SPEAKER_03: year,
32:54
SPEAKER_03: which is fine.
32:54
SPEAKER_03: But also, I think there's a reason why they become so meaningful.
32:58
And I don't think it's just,
32:59
you know,
33:00
it's not just like college football.
33:01
SPEAKER_03: It's meaningful because it's only a certain time of year.
33:03
I think it's meaningful because it speaks to something that we
33:08
are all longing for
33:09
SPEAKER_03: as the body of Christ.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:11
SPEAKER_03: We are all just, it's kind of like Romans 8, right?
33:15
SPEAKER_03: Like all creation is groaning for the revelation of the Redeemer,
33:20
SPEAKER_03: for everything to be finally reconciled.
33:22
SPEAKER_03: And I think as sinners who have been saved by grace,
33:26
SPEAKER_03: we are imbued right at that moment with that same sort of...
33:30
SPEAKER_03: Like Advent reminds us of the ache of our world,
33:35
SPEAKER_03: but also reminds us of the fact that the one who can remedy it,
33:39
SPEAKER_03: who can cure it,
33:41
SPEAKER_03: has come and he's coming again to actually fulfill it all.
33:44
SPEAKER_03: And so how does City Church kind of...
33:49
SPEAKER_03: bring some of those themes to the forefront during this time of year?
33:52
And what are some ways that Advent has kind of impacted you
33:55
over the years in terms
33:56
SPEAKER_03: of,
33:56
SPEAKER_03: like,
33:56
SPEAKER_03: how you want to convey some of these messages to your folks,
34:00
SPEAKER_03: or even personally,
34:01
SPEAKER_03: even in pastoral ministry?
34:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for me, the...
34:07
SPEAKER_00: I've grown to love the Christian calendar more and more.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: Simply because it's just like, I love the rendezvous moment.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: It's just a meeting place.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: These places where you've got Easter,
34:27
And it's a reminder of Jesus,
34:29
you know,
34:30
Jesus' death,
34:31
burial,
34:31
and then resurrection.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: And then you've got a time where you're celebrating that he came.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: And like,
34:38
SPEAKER_00: you know,
34:39
just all those like where if we just kind of like have a way in
34:45
which you're
34:46
meeting and you have a rendezvous moment with an old friend and
34:50
you just kind of
34:51
SPEAKER_00: keep meeting there.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: And every time you meet,
34:55
SPEAKER_00: your relationship gets deeper and deeper.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: To use C.S.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: Lewis' phrase, further in and further up.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
35:04
It's just like there's a way in which it's like every Advent
35:09
gets you to see...
35:10
SPEAKER_00: Because the year comes in,
35:15
And it has its own aches and pains and sorrows and trials and
35:21
seasons that you just
35:23
SPEAKER_00: like,
35:23
SPEAKER_00: you're like,
35:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I would have made it out of this.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: But I'm glad you came.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad, you know, I like football now.
35:35
SPEAKER_00: I still like rugby now.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad that I live in between these two moments of your advent.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: Like that,
35:46
SPEAKER_00: like everything I'm looking for,
35:50
SPEAKER_00: you know,
35:50
SPEAKER_00: whether I got like,
35:51
SPEAKER_00: so for example,
35:52
SPEAKER_00: whether my wife got a cancer diagnosis,
35:55
SPEAKER_00: whether it's like,
35:56
SPEAKER_00: whether I'm in the church and I'm really,
35:58
really grieved by all these things that I am reminded that we
36:05
are a people who are
36:07
SPEAKER_00: always expecting.
36:09
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
36:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's good.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: And expectant.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: And so, therefore, our prayers have hope.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: Our labor has hope.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: Everything has,
36:19
SPEAKER_00: like,
36:20
SPEAKER_00: that love is coming,
36:22
SPEAKER_00: that hope and that peace is coming,
36:24
SPEAKER_00: that joy is coming.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: We might have sown in tears,
36:27
SPEAKER_00: but,
36:28
SPEAKER_00: like,
36:29
SPEAKER_00: joy,
36:30
SPEAKER_00: definitely we want to reap in,
36:31
SPEAKER_00: what,
36:32
SPEAKER_00: in shouts of joy.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: And so, for me, that day is just, like, that's, for me, Advent is...
36:39
It's great that it's a season that every year we kind of get
36:43
back to that.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: And so what it does is that it becomes to me...
36:48
SPEAKER_00: Because I can get stuck in a rut.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: The same way the Lord's Day comes and becomes a rival liturgy to,
37:00
SPEAKER_00: like to use James K.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: Smith's kind of language,
37:03
it becomes a rival liturgy to the liturgy of the world that has
37:07
told me all this
37:08
SPEAKER_00: bad news throughout the week.
37:11
SPEAKER_00: The Advent comes in with a rival liturgy that says that,
37:14
SPEAKER_00: like,
37:15
SPEAKER_00: it's not...
37:16
SPEAKER_00: We're not...
37:17
SPEAKER_00: Our story is not downward.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: Our story is very upward.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: Right?
37:22
SPEAKER_00: And so there's just a way... So it becomes like the...
37:26
SPEAKER_00: Like,
37:26
SPEAKER_00: you know,
37:26
when people have passed out and then you make them breathe
37:29
those salts and then it
37:31
SPEAKER_00: becomes something that's...
37:32
SPEAKER_03: Advent is like smelling salts.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: That snaps me out of the reality of this rut.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: That's actually good.
37:40
That's just like,
37:41
that's like way maybe I would have...
37:43
It's like,
37:43
oh no,
37:43
the king is here.
37:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the king is here and he's come.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: And he will come again.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: And he will come again.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: And that just for me is really good.
37:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's good.
37:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's the genius of the calendar.
37:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: The calendar of,
37:57
SPEAKER_00: like,
37:57
SPEAKER_00: we're,
37:58
SPEAKER_00: to use,
37:58
SPEAKER_00: what's his name,
38:00
SPEAKER_00: Jared Wilson's language,
38:02
SPEAKER_00: like,
38:02
SPEAKER_00: we're,
38:02
SPEAKER_00: like,
38:03
SPEAKER_00: gospel amnesiacs,
38:04
SPEAKER_00: right?
38:04
SPEAKER_00: Like,
38:04
SPEAKER_00: they're just,
38:05
SPEAKER_00: like,
38:06
SPEAKER_00: we need someone to come and snap fingers and say,
38:09
SPEAKER_00: hey,
38:09
SPEAKER_00: wake up,
38:10
SPEAKER_00: you know what time it is.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:12
And I love the fact that the Advent usually happens during our
38:16
winter time here.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: Like, and everything is dead, man.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: The leaves and the trees are bare,
38:25
SPEAKER_00: and,
38:26
SPEAKER_00: like,
38:26
SPEAKER_00: just the landscape looks terrible,
38:29
SPEAKER_00: like,
38:29
SPEAKER_00: because of,
38:30
SPEAKER_00: like,
38:30
SPEAKER_00: you know,
38:31
SPEAKER_00: sometimes...
38:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
38:31
SPEAKER_00: and it's,
38:31
SPEAKER_02: like,
38:32
SPEAKER_02: around the time of the darkest day of the year.
38:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like, everything is just... But yet, there's still that, like...
38:38
reform reformation cry post tenebra slugs yeah after darkness
38:44
light yes we are
38:45
waiting for the spring to come like and when it finally comes
38:50
everything blossoms
38:51
from there so so for me that's like getting a church to kind of
38:55
get in within that
38:57
SPEAKER_00: kind of current even though we're not high church but like
39:02
we incorporate some of that stuff that just says,
39:05
like,
39:06
wait at the end of the day.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: It's like, do you know what time it is?
39:09
SPEAKER_00: Do you know where we are?
39:10
SPEAKER_00: Do you know?
39:11
SPEAKER_00: Where is your joy?
39:12
SPEAKER_00: Don't be a Grinch, right, in the midst of this.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: Maybe,
39:16
SPEAKER_02: like,
39:16
SPEAKER_02: to use another illustration,
39:17
SPEAKER_02: just thinking about,
39:18
SPEAKER_02: like,
39:19
SPEAKER_02: we're in Williamsport,
39:20
SPEAKER_00: right?
39:20
SPEAKER_02: And the name to fame of Williamsport is...
39:23
SPEAKER_02: Little League and we have the Little League World Series,
39:26
SPEAKER_02: you know,
39:27
SPEAKER_02: not across the street,
39:28
but you know across the river from us and it's easy for us to
39:31
forget how cool it is
39:33
that the Little League World Series happens in the small city
39:36
of Williamsport.
39:36
There's literally people from around the world that come to
39:40
Williamsport for a few weeks and
39:42
SPEAKER_02: And there's people who,
39:43
SPEAKER_02: like,
39:43
dream their whole lives of playing on these fields or coming to
39:48
watch the games or
39:49
SPEAKER_02: something like that.
39:50
SPEAKER_02: But it's easy for us to become apathetic towards it.
39:54
SPEAKER_02: But Advent provides the smelling salts, like Raph was saying.
39:59
SPEAKER_02: Like, just remembering, like, oh, like...
40:02
incarnation is amazing like it's so easy to forget like even if
40:06
you're reading your
40:07
bible every day yeah it's easy for you to fit or forget that
40:11
like that existential
40:12
side of it of like wow like the son of god somehow added a
40:18
human nature to himself
40:20
to be born as a child he had to have his his diaper changed
40:24
yeah like you just
40:25
SPEAKER_02: forget these things it's so easy
40:28
To just go through your life not realizing,
40:30
like,
40:30
oh,
40:30
wow,
40:31
this is truly amazing.
40:33
SPEAKER_03: Well, and you can get stuck in that.
40:34
SPEAKER_03: Like, the apathy is true.
40:38
SPEAKER_03: What you're kind of saying, I think, is really fitting, too.
40:40
SPEAKER_03: Like, going through the days, you can kind of just get stuck in...
40:45
SPEAKER_03: whatever day of the week it is,
40:46
SPEAKER_03: or whatever time of the year it is,
40:48
SPEAKER_03: and you can kind of just feel like this is all that life is going to be.
40:52
SPEAKER_03: It can kind of feel like,
40:54
SPEAKER_03: to borrow from Lewis again,
40:55
SPEAKER_03: it can feel like it's always winter,
40:57
SPEAKER_03: never Christmas.
40:58
SPEAKER_03: You can always feel like this darkness is just deepening,
41:02
SPEAKER_03: that there really is no light at the end of the tunnel.
41:05
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's what's been on my mind lately.
41:09
SPEAKER_03: You know,
41:09
SPEAKER_03: John 1 and Isaiah 9,
41:12
SPEAKER_03: both the evangelists and the prophet,
41:13
SPEAKER_03: they speak of this notion of light shining in the darkness.
41:16
SPEAKER_03: And I think we, naturally, as people who are yawning for...
41:22
SPEAKER_03: You know, optimism.
41:23
SPEAKER_03: We hasten to the idea of the light,
41:25
SPEAKER_03: but we forget that it's in the darkness that the light shines.
41:29
We forget that it comes into these very environments of sin and
41:34
frustration and heartache.
41:36
SPEAKER_03: And I think Advent has a really good way of reminding us of like...
41:40
right in the midst of all that that's when the savior was born
41:43
that's when the like
41:44
you're saying like behold the mystery in this little in this
41:48
little feeding trough
41:49
that's what's holding the king of the world that's the one
41:53
that's holding that
41:54
little feeding trough is creator exactly the one who spoke all
41:57
this into existence
41:58
and advent reminds us like get out of your sorts get out of
42:02
like this notion of
42:03
SPEAKER_03: just like it's always going to be winter never christmas
42:07
SPEAKER_03: This promise has been fulfilled,
42:08
SPEAKER_03: which means all of these other ones are yes and amen in this Christ.
42:12
SPEAKER_03: Which, what a... Keep preaching, Brad.
42:16
SPEAKER_02: Keep going.
42:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
42:18
SPEAKER_02: But what a relieving thing.
42:20
SPEAKER_03: It's like, what a relief.
42:21
SPEAKER_03: What a relief the gospel is.
42:23
SPEAKER_03: Like,
42:24
SPEAKER_03: that burden that we feel that,
42:26
SPEAKER_03: you know,
42:27
SPEAKER_03: for 300 and whatever odd days of the year,
42:29
SPEAKER_03: we feel that burden.
42:31
SPEAKER_03: Advent is like...
42:32
SPEAKER_03: It's like smelling salts.
42:33
It's like this jumper cable of good news that reminds us,
42:37
like,
42:37
here it is.
42:39
Like,
42:40
don't get,
42:40
like,
42:40
we get,
42:41
like,
42:41
mules that have,
42:42
like,
42:43
little blinders on,
42:43
right?
42:44
And,
42:44
like,
42:45
Advent is,
42:45
like,
42:45
releasing the,
42:46
like,
42:46
we're mixing all kinds of metaphors.
42:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: So many metaphors.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: Just pick one and stick with it.
42:51
I think metaphors do give us,
42:54
like,
42:55
because it's,
42:56
that's how amazing these things are,
42:58
like,
43:00
SPEAKER_00: Because there's just some parts of it where you look at this.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: I was holding a baby this week,
43:06
SPEAKER_00: a newborn,
43:07
SPEAKER_00: and I was holding,
43:09
SPEAKER_00: and I was just hit by the idea of,
43:13
SPEAKER_00: like,
43:14
SPEAKER_00: my Savior came in such weakness.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: And all for what?
43:24
SPEAKER_00: God has loved this world in this way.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: And he gave.
43:31
SPEAKER_00: Just thinking about that.
43:33
Where there are some things about you have to be in a wedding
43:37
to appreciate the wedding.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: You have to be like...
43:41
SPEAKER_00: And when you're holding...
43:43
SPEAKER_00: And our church right now,
43:44
SPEAKER_00: we're reading on the incarnation.
43:46
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just being hit by like...
43:50
SPEAKER_00: hold on, like, he is the creator.
43:53
SPEAKER_00: He is God become flesh.
43:57
Like,
43:57
not only that,
43:58
like,
43:59
my creator,
44:00
like,
44:00
the creator of everything and everything.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: And you still decided to, like, just come and become flesh and,
44:09
SPEAKER_00: Oh, for what?
44:10
SPEAKER_00: Like,
44:11
SPEAKER_00: and then just kind of,
44:11
SPEAKER_00: you start thinking about it,
44:13
SPEAKER_00: like,
44:13
SPEAKER_00: where the gospel then becomes,
44:16
SPEAKER_00: like,
44:16
SPEAKER_00: even more and more scandalous.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: Like, grand.
44:21
Like,
44:22
far much more than,
44:23
like,
44:23
I could...
44:24
Like,
44:24
I just...
44:25
I don't even think...
44:27
our minds have a concept of even,
44:30
like,
44:30
what it means for God to become flesh.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, like, was it Anselmo say, like, why did God become man?
44:41
Like,
44:41
and that is probably going to be something every single year we
44:46
get to unpack.
44:47
SPEAKER_00: And so here's what my prayer usually for Advent is.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm always asking,
44:53
SPEAKER_00: Lord,
44:54
SPEAKER_00: help me to go further in and further up into...
44:59
SPEAKER_00: Like,
44:59
SPEAKER_00: every single season kind of just becomes,
45:03
SPEAKER_00: like,
45:03
SPEAKER_00: what I would say...
45:04
SPEAKER_00: It's like...
45:08
SPEAKER_00: It is very...
45:10
SPEAKER_00: It's inclined in this way.
45:13
It's like running with the wind,
45:17
like,
45:17
towards where...
45:18
Like,
45:18
you're not resisting.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, if you were...
45:22
SPEAKER_00: So basically you use flying language.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: There's tailwinds and there's headwinds.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: Like Advent season is actually almost like the tailwind.
45:34
That just helps you dive,
45:36
go more,
45:37
like,
45:38
you know,
45:38
faster into a certain doctrine.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: Everything is queued up in such a way that it's actually saying...
45:47
SPEAKER_00: Get your appetites wet.
45:50
SPEAKER_00: Get in a little bit more into, why did he become man?
45:55
SPEAKER_00: And then you know you're going to come out of there with your heart glad.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: And that's now where we even find some of those passages where it's like,
46:05
how is a Christian meant to consider it pure joy when they go
46:09
through suffering?
46:11
SPEAKER_00: How?
46:11
SPEAKER_00: Like,
46:12
SPEAKER_00: you know,
46:12
SPEAKER_00: like,
46:13
SPEAKER_00: when you start thinking about all these,
46:15
SPEAKER_00: like,
46:16
SPEAKER_00: these things of,
46:17
SPEAKER_00: like,
46:18
SPEAKER_00: how do I endure through tough seasons by fixing my eyes on Jesus?
46:27
SPEAKER_00: Like,
46:28
SPEAKER_00: every one of these are meant to actually,
46:30
SPEAKER_00: like,
46:31
SPEAKER_00: give you almost,
46:32
SPEAKER_00: like,
46:32
SPEAKER_00: this beautiful,
46:34
SPEAKER_00: like,
46:35
SPEAKER_00: vantage point of this multifaceted gospel that just...
46:41
SPEAKER_00: leaves you dazed and amazed and blown away by like,
46:46
SPEAKER_00: oh,
46:47
SPEAKER_00: because of this,
46:49
SPEAKER_00: I can hold on a little bit longer.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: Because of this,
46:53
SPEAKER_00: like,
46:54
SPEAKER_00: man,
46:54
SPEAKER_00: like,
46:55
SPEAKER_00: there's a reason why I read this and I'm like,
46:58
SPEAKER_00: wow,
46:59
SPEAKER_00: as a result,
47:00
SPEAKER_00: I remember this,
47:01
SPEAKER_00: therefore I have hope.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: Right, like, and I can come out of like,
47:06
the worst like the people sitting in darkness have seen a
47:11
marvelous light yeah i
47:13
can now come out of this and call upon his name and he can
47:18
rescue me from whatever
47:20
prison that i'm finding myself in especially when you think
47:25
about some one or seven
47:26
SPEAKER_00: um let the redeem of the lord say so yeah
47:31
the one he's redeemed from every direction like for me that's
47:34
actually what like
47:36
it's like you're sitting and you're sitting in darkness in
47:39
chains and all those
47:40
things you call upon his name and he comes kicks the doors
47:44
breaks the bronze and
47:46
does that he comes to the desert picks them off and he comes to
47:50
those drunken
47:51
stupor of their own traits and stuff like that he comes to even
47:55
fools yeah
47:57
And then he has this sweeping salvation that comes and gives
48:02
grace to those who are
48:03
SPEAKER_00: undeserving.
48:04
SPEAKER_00: There's just something amazing about that.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: So for us as a church,
48:08
SPEAKER_00: then it's so,
48:09
SPEAKER_00: so important for us then to invite more and more people towards that.
48:14
SPEAKER_00: So we'll do that in our liturgy at the church, like where we...
48:18
SPEAKER_00: our confession,
48:20
SPEAKER_00: like create a space where we almost like our call to worship,
48:26
SPEAKER_00: our confession,
48:27
SPEAKER_00: our songs,
48:28
and then maybe also our sermons as well also just kind of have
48:33
some notion of
48:34
SPEAKER_00: pointing towards that.
48:36
We'll ask people to read through the Bible through maybe an
48:39
Advent devotional.
48:42
SPEAKER_00: Just kind of find ways to
48:45
SPEAKER_00: to try by all means to get people to say, something has happened here.
48:51
SPEAKER_00: Don't just roll through the Christmas season,
48:55
SPEAKER_00: you know,
48:56
SPEAKER_00: without actually paying attention to this.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: Don't get stuck in the gifts.
49:01
SPEAKER_00: Don't get stuck in the, you know... All the planning.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: The planning,
49:05
SPEAKER_00: the anxiety,
49:07
SPEAKER_00: the crazy elephant exchange,
49:09
SPEAKER_00: whatever,
49:10
SPEAKER_00: the parties and the...
49:12
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
49:12
SPEAKER_00: Like, you can...
49:14
SPEAKER_00: Especially in this season,
49:16
SPEAKER_00: you can get sucked into everything to the point that I think as a pastor,
49:23
SPEAKER_00: probably maybe you can say this,
49:25
SPEAKER_00: and all of us are in ministry.
49:28
SPEAKER_00: I found myself sometimes at Advent becoming,
49:31
SPEAKER_00: this season,
49:32
SPEAKER_00: becoming one of the most stressful ones.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: Because of all the million things that are going on.
49:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:38
SPEAKER_00: And it's overcast and it's just like everything is just gloomy and stuff.
49:43
SPEAKER_00: But the only thing that gets to warm my heart more and more.
49:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: It's been just digging deeper in these winter moments.
49:53
Like saying,
49:54
okay,
49:54
my leaves are not out here,
49:56
but my roots are getting deeper.
49:59
SPEAKER_00: And I want to come out of this singing of the incarnation louder,
50:04
SPEAKER_00: exalting and exalting louder than I have last year.
50:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's good.
50:11
every every time this year or every time of the year this
50:15
season rolls around i
50:17
always think of that there's a song by uh i think it's by
50:20
hillsong worship it's
50:21
called arrival which it was on one of their christmas albums
50:24
but i love that song
50:26
so much because the singer there he talks about the idea of
50:29
he's using all of these
50:30
a lot of other mixed metaphors for the incarnation but he talks
50:34
about the idea of
50:35
SPEAKER_03: the painter painting himself into the canvas the
50:38
the architect putting himself within the design of creation and
50:42
then he always ends
50:43
the chorus with the behold the wonder of the the infinite
50:47
infant king and that
50:48
SPEAKER_03: always just like blows my mind away because it's like
50:51
SPEAKER_03: all of those paradoxes,
50:53
SPEAKER_03: all of those things that shouldn't make sense,
50:55
SPEAKER_03: they converge in the incarnation,
50:58
SPEAKER_03: which is,
50:59
SPEAKER_03: again,
50:59
SPEAKER_03: I think of that verse,
51:02
SPEAKER_03: it's in one of the letters that Paul writes to Timothy,
51:05
SPEAKER_03: where he talks,
51:05
SPEAKER_03: behold the mystery of godliness.
51:07
SPEAKER_03: Like, the one who is infinite put himself within time.
51:13
SPEAKER_03: That should just be mind-blowing all the time,
51:16
SPEAKER_03: but specifically this time of year,
51:18
SPEAKER_03: that's the news that meets us
51:20
SPEAKER_03: in the darkness.
51:21
SPEAKER_03: But I also think it's apt.
51:22
SPEAKER_03: You mentioned Psalm 107.
51:24
That's one of the other things that has been impressed upon my
51:26
heart recently is
51:27
SPEAKER_03: this notion that the Psalms we go to all the time a year.
51:31
I think I even mentioned in one of my last sermons that if
51:34
someone were to ask the
51:36
SPEAKER_03: average Pucet or what your favorite book of the Bible is,
51:38
SPEAKER_03: they would probably say the Psalms.
51:39
SPEAKER_03: It's easy to pick that as a favorite.
51:42
SPEAKER_03: But there's a reason why when Mary is singing in Luke chapter 1,
51:47
and trying to like grapple with hey guess what you know she
51:50
just heard from the
51:51
angel hey guess what you're gonna be I know you haven't had
51:54
relations with a with a
51:55
man yet but guess what you're pregnant with the Holy Spirit and
51:58
with God he's you
52:00
know inside your womb now as she grapples with that news so
52:04
when she sings in Luke
52:06
1 there's a reason why almost all of her words come from the
52:09
Psalms it's because
52:11
SPEAKER_03: As we find out from the Psalms,
52:13
what often all of them have that same rhythm of darkness and
52:18
then light coming
52:19
SPEAKER_03: because of the hope and the word of promise that God gives to his saints.
52:23
And I think that in and of itself is sort of like the
52:27
trajectory of Advent.
52:29
In and of itself,
52:30
which is a word of promise just interjecting itself into the
52:34
darkness.
52:34
SPEAKER_03: That's good.
52:35
SPEAKER_03: And we as God's sinner saints, we are wrestling with that.
52:41
SPEAKER_03: We're grappling with that.
52:42
SPEAKER_03: I think you can zoom out.
52:47
SPEAKER_03: All of the Psalms are what?
52:50
sinner saints that are wrestling with hey i'm experiencing this
52:54
yeah but god you
52:55
promised this and how do we how do we navigate that tension you
52:59
can i think that's
53:00
exactly what mary's doing but that's exactly what i think
53:02
advent is instilling in
53:05
us god's saints god's church that's what is instilling us to do
53:09
too right yeah and
53:12
SPEAKER_00: and i would say that um the the power of the psalms
53:18
SPEAKER_00: is that they sing of Christ.
53:22
SPEAKER_00: This is what,
53:23
SPEAKER_00: when I was doing some of my work with Athanasius,
53:26
SPEAKER_00: like the church father,
53:28
SPEAKER_00: he said basically the Psalms.
53:32
SPEAKER_00: the Psalms are the symphony of Christ.
53:35
SPEAKER_00: Like, they sing.
53:36
When you walk into a symphony,
53:39
like,
53:39
it's just like,
53:40
what is it that's coming from there?
53:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:43
SPEAKER_00: They sing of Christ from beginning all the way to end.
53:47
SPEAKER_00: And most of them, obviously, like, are kind of inviting.
53:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, they're showing you from someone, talking about the righteous man.
53:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:57
SPEAKER_00: you know,
53:58
SPEAKER_00: and you can place Christ in the center of every one of those,
54:02
SPEAKER_00: like,
54:02
SPEAKER_00: and at the end of the day,
54:04
SPEAKER_00: and just looking and saying,
54:07
SPEAKER_00: seeing how,
54:09
SPEAKER_00: like,
54:09
SPEAKER_00: the Advent season,
54:11
SPEAKER_00: like,
54:12
SPEAKER_00: what is it characterized by?
54:13
SPEAKER_00: It's usually, everywhere you go, it's song.
54:17
There's just a moment where it's like,
54:19
you know,
54:20
children singing,
54:21
people singing,
54:21
and all that.
54:22
SPEAKER_00: There's a reason why when, when,
54:27
any and every time in the New Testament I think it's the Psalms
54:32
are the first
54:33
number one quoted book in the New Testament when they just
54:37
don't know what to do
54:39
SPEAKER_00: they go back to the Psalms like even Jesus like
54:43
SPEAKER_00: Right before he's like,
54:44
SPEAKER_00: you know,
54:45
SPEAKER_00: Mary sings,
54:46
SPEAKER_00: you know,
54:47
SPEAKER_00: and even Jesus,
54:49
SPEAKER_00: when he actually comes to those moments when he's suffering,
54:53
SPEAKER_00: right before he goes to,
54:56
SPEAKER_00: you know,
54:56
SPEAKER_00: to Passover,
54:57
SPEAKER_00: he sings a psalm with his disciples.
54:59
SPEAKER_00: He sings psalms even from the cross.
55:03
SPEAKER_00: And you see the psalms.
55:04
SPEAKER_00: And even like when they're celebrating the good news of his risenness,
55:09
SPEAKER_00: they're looking at Psalm 16.
55:10
SPEAKER_00: They're looking at Psalm 110.
55:12
SPEAKER_00: They're looking.
55:14
SPEAKER_00: Everyone is using the Psalms to make sense of...
55:19
SPEAKER_00: of actually what's happening.
55:20
SPEAKER_00: There are seasons of suffering,
55:22
SPEAKER_00: but all of them are pointing them back to what the,
55:26
SPEAKER_00: you know,
55:27
SPEAKER_00: like those football posts.
55:29
SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, you are in between the two moments of His coming.
55:32
SPEAKER_00: That's right, yeah.
55:33
SPEAKER_00: His advent to come and save us,
55:36
SPEAKER_00: and His advent to come and actually,
55:39
SPEAKER_00: like,
55:39
SPEAKER_00: to come and save us fully now as people expected of a Savior.
55:45
SPEAKER_00: So therefore...
55:47
SPEAKER_00: We sing in between and we go back to these songs of the Savior.
55:52
SPEAKER_00: Like that just become, that become our songs.
55:55
SPEAKER_00: And that probably is where the psalms really are so good.
55:59
SPEAKER_00: Is that...
56:01
SPEAKER_00: you know,
56:02
theologians like Athanasius and Augustine and even like Calvin
56:08
and Luther,
56:10
like every one of them would say that like there's something
56:16
about song that
56:18
SPEAKER_00: becomes,
56:19
SPEAKER_00: that feel,
56:20
SPEAKER_00: that what Athanasius says is that they line up the contours of the soul.
56:25
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
56:28
And Augustine says that where a psalm in your mouth,
56:36
Christ in your heart.
56:38
Every time a psalm is in your mouth,
56:40
Christ is embedded deep inside your heart.
56:44
SPEAKER_00: And so there's just something about that.
56:47
SPEAKER_00: We are just a people of song.
56:50
SPEAKER_00: I think as soon as you become the people of God,
56:54
SPEAKER_00: The people who have been saved, like by the Lord, are singing people.
57:00
SPEAKER_00: And so there is something about like just,
57:03
I praise God and praise the Holy Spirit for specifically just
57:08
giving us the gift of
57:09
SPEAKER_00: the Psalms.
57:10
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
57:11
SPEAKER_00: Because the Psalms then help us to then express,
57:15
SPEAKER_00: express what a Savior we have,
57:18
SPEAKER_00: what a God we have,
57:19
SPEAKER_00: what a salvation we have.
57:20
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
57:21
SPEAKER_02: That's good.
57:24
SPEAKER_02: Do you guys do a Christmas Eve service or anything like that, typically?
57:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, typically we do.
57:29
SPEAKER_03: We do a Christmas Eve candle lighting service.
57:33
SPEAKER_03: Where you sing Silent Night at the end.
57:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you sing Silent Night, everyone lights candles.
57:38
SPEAKER_03: It's really cool,
57:38
but I think there's a reason why that type of tradition is just
57:42
a good tradition to
57:43
SPEAKER_03: have.
57:44
Only because I think,
57:46
again,
57:48
there's a reason why some of those liturgies are good.
57:50
SPEAKER_03: I just finished preaching on
57:53
Exodus chapter 12 a couple weeks ago and the idea that God is
57:57
instituting I think
57:58
it's really fascinating this little point I think it speaks to
58:01
Advent God's people
58:03
they're in slavery they haven't yet been delivered and God is
58:07
already instituting a
58:10
memorial so that they can remember how they were delivered they
58:13
haven't even had a
58:14
SPEAKER_03: chance to forget that
58:15
SPEAKER_03: And he's already making sure that they always remember.
58:19
SPEAKER_03: And I think that that sort of idea is baked into the fabric of our faith.
58:24
SPEAKER_03: That we are remembering people every single time of the year.
58:29
SPEAKER_03: Yes,
58:29
there's so many other ways in which we can be haunted by things
58:34
that have happened
58:34
SPEAKER_03: every time of the year.
58:35
SPEAKER_03: There's a reason why the holiday season is filled with stress,
58:38
SPEAKER_03: family,
58:39
SPEAKER_03: blah,
58:39
SPEAKER_03: blah,
58:39
SPEAKER_03: blah,
58:39
SPEAKER_03: all those sorts of things.
58:41
SPEAKER_03: But there's also a reason why it is...
58:44
A cherished season is the most poignant season because God has
58:47
imbued it with a
58:47
SPEAKER_03: sense of remembering.
58:49
SPEAKER_03: Like we are remembering people.
58:50
And once again,
58:51
we are remembering the quintessential fundamental fact of our
58:55
faith.
58:56
SPEAKER_03: That God hasn't called us and beckoned us to climb to him.
58:59
SPEAKER_03: Actually, he's come down to where we are.
59:02
SPEAKER_03: So once again, we're reminded of the best news of all.
59:04
Our religion,
59:05
our faith is founded on the best news anyone could ever preach.
59:08
SPEAKER_03: Like God has come.
59:10
SPEAKER_03: so that he could take us to where he is.
59:11
SPEAKER_03: He hasn't called us to just try and scratch and claw our way to him.
59:16
SPEAKER_03: And so once again, we're reminded of that fact.
59:18
And I think that's why Advent is so powerful,
59:21
it's so profound,
59:22
it's so important as a church.
59:27
SPEAKER_03: Maybe Trevor, speak to this.
59:29
I know you've done some stuff with different youth and those
59:33
types of ministries.
59:36
SPEAKER_03: How would you want to convey...
59:40
SPEAKER_03: Advent to like that demographic.
59:42
And I,
59:42
what I mean by that is because sometimes I think they're like
59:46
certain generations.
59:46
SPEAKER_03: They don't have the same sense of nostalgia.
59:50
SPEAKER_03: They don't have the same sense of, of sentimentality.
59:53
SPEAKER_03: And there is some of that baked into Christmas.
59:56
SPEAKER_03: Um, and I, but I think there's this profound message that,
1:00:01
within the Christmas season that reminds us,
1:00:04
no,
1:00:04
it is good to be nostalgic.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_03: There's a good nostalgia.
1:00:09
SPEAKER_03: Does that make sense?
1:00:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:00:10
I think part of that might just be just realizing as you're
1:00:15
going through these
1:00:18
rhythms that you typically go through in Advent season is just
1:00:22
taking the time to
1:00:22
SPEAKER_02: explain them.
1:00:23
Like,
1:00:24
okay,
1:00:24
why is it that we're doing this candlelight thing at the end of
1:00:27
the service?
1:00:28
SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, it's because...
1:00:30
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:00:30
Christ is the light that shines in the darkness and remembering
1:00:35
that when Christ is
1:00:36
SPEAKER_02: coming,
1:00:36
SPEAKER_02: that they had been living in darkness for like hundreds of years.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_02: Like there hasn't been a prophet for a really long time.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_02: I was explaining this recently of like,
1:00:44
SPEAKER_02: you know,
1:00:45
SPEAKER_02: it's just one page in our Bibles,
1:00:46
but that's like hundreds of years that Israel is in exile and
1:00:50
trying to figure out
1:00:51
SPEAKER_02: like,
1:00:51
SPEAKER_02: God,
1:00:52
SPEAKER_02: are you going to be faithful to these promises that you've made?
1:00:55
SPEAKER_02: Like what's going on?
1:00:56
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I think taking the time to explain...
1:01:00
those things um yeah but especially with like the youth i mean
1:01:04
they haven't really
1:01:06
been alive long enough to have nostalgia yet really so so just
1:01:10
hoping to to explain
1:01:13
SPEAKER_02: to them why these things are important and not just doing them you know
1:01:17
SPEAKER_02: Because that is the – what's the word I'm looking for?
1:01:22
That can be the downside of doing the same thing every year is
1:01:26
just,
1:01:26
oh,
1:01:26
why do we do this?
1:01:27
SPEAKER_02: Well, because we did it last year.
1:01:29
SPEAKER_02: We've done it for 10 years, whatever.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_02: But just taking the time to explain, you know, why is it that we do this?
1:01:38
SPEAKER_02: Why do we think it's important?
1:01:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:01:40
so like maybe Raph speak to this every year Advent rolls around
1:01:46
and like one of the
1:01:47
reasons why I wanted to do a sermon series in the Psalms just
1:01:50
because not because
1:01:51
of what we've already sort of expressed which is that you could
1:01:56
take the themes of
1:01:56
SPEAKER_03: Advent and you could apply them to almost any psalm but
1:02:02
what's something that kind of like motivates you like instead
1:02:05
of just preaching
1:02:06
Luke 2 every year maybe you are that's fine but like instead of
1:02:09
just preaching Luke
1:02:10
2 every time Christmas rolls around like what are some ways in
1:02:13
which you've you've
1:02:14
SPEAKER_03: striven to um
1:02:17
see those same themes like all over the Bible because the
1:02:22
incarnation is a mystery
1:02:23
that is revealed in Luke 2 but it's hinted at it's yearned for
1:02:27
it's longed for
1:02:29
there's a reason why all of these things kind of come to a
1:02:32
culmination in Luke 2
1:02:34
SPEAKER_03: but it's all over scripture right yeah yeah yeah
1:02:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's now like where it's Jesus from every page, basically.
1:02:43
SPEAKER_00: If we keep that in mind,
1:02:46
that scripture from creation to consummation is all just like
1:02:51
if everything is
1:02:53
SPEAKER_00: Christ at the center of it all,
1:02:55
SPEAKER_00: then you can now be able to freely preach Jesus.
1:02:59
Jesus at every single in every single place so for example like
1:03:05
we are in John
1:03:06
right now and we just didn't change we didn't stop John to to
1:03:12
preach Advent we
1:03:15
SPEAKER_00: Because why?
1:03:16
SPEAKER_00: Because it's about Jesus, right?
1:03:19
Like,
1:03:19
even though,
1:03:20
like,
1:03:20
it's like,
1:03:21
you know,
1:03:21
he's changing water into water.
1:03:23
SPEAKER_00: So we looked at it and we're like,
1:03:25
SPEAKER_00: hey,
1:03:26
SPEAKER_00: why don't we look at these passages and then see the themes,
1:03:29
SPEAKER_00: like,
1:03:30
new wine a new wedding new wine like and then not only that new
1:03:35
temple a new birth
1:03:38
you and you're just looking and we're not moving from that
1:03:42
we're just kind of like
1:03:43
saying what does it look like then but at the same time when
1:03:46
i'm applying i will
1:03:48
SPEAKER_00: actually kind of show how basically like this is
1:03:53
SPEAKER_00: These themes of Advent are still in within here.
1:03:57
SPEAKER_00: So, for example, this week I am preaching John 3, John 3 verse 1 to 21.
1:04:03
SPEAKER_00: And right in, you know, it's just like you must be born again.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_00: You must be...
1:04:08
And there's just a way in which it's like you can preach Christ
1:04:13
from that.
1:04:13
SPEAKER_00: And I think another Advent time we did, we went through Hebrews.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_00: Hebrews chapter 1.
1:04:20
SPEAKER_00: It was 1 to 4.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_00: He hates me for that.
1:04:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, no.
1:04:25
SPEAKER_00: Everyone hates you for that.
1:04:27
You gave us the taste of the beauty of Hebrews,
1:04:30
and then you're like,
1:04:31
okay,
1:04:31
we're done now.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_02: We only did the first four chapters.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_02: You stopped at chapter four, right?
1:04:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and everyone was like, why don't we just do the whole book?
1:04:37
SPEAKER_03: And he's like, no.
1:04:39
SPEAKER_03: You got out right before chapter six.
1:04:41
SPEAKER_03: You didn't have to deal with new people with their salvation.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:04:49
SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, it was just the whole idea that we're using.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_02: It was really good, though.
1:04:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was fixating on Jesus.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_00: It was based off of... Is it Tim Chester?
1:05:01
SPEAKER_00: I think it's Tim Chester.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_00: Tim and then also Sinclair Ferguson did some stuff on that.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was like an Advent devotional called Fixated.
1:05:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Fixated.
1:05:09
SPEAKER_02: And it comes from Hebrews 12.
1:05:11
SPEAKER_00: Hebrews 12,
1:05:12
SPEAKER_00: and then,
1:05:12
SPEAKER_00: but at the same time,
1:05:13
SPEAKER_00: showing how basically,
1:05:15
SPEAKER_00: like,
1:05:16
SPEAKER_00: that theme is in the whole book of Hebrews is fixing their eyes on Jesus.
1:05:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:05:21
SPEAKER_00: Like, and then, so how then does that work, you know?
1:05:25
SPEAKER_00: And last year, we did the Songs of Advent.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the Songs of Advent, obviously.
1:05:29
SPEAKER_02: And that's where we broke down the two songs in Luke.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:05:34
SPEAKER_01: Zechariah and Mary.
1:05:35
SPEAKER_01: Yes, Zechariah and Mary.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_02: And we kind of broke those up into the...
1:05:40
SPEAKER_02: I forget the order,
1:05:41
SPEAKER_02: but the hope,
1:05:42
SPEAKER_02: love,
1:05:42
SPEAKER_02: faith,
1:05:43
SPEAKER_02: and joy.
1:05:45
SPEAKER_02: And kind of found, like, okay, this section kind of fits with that.
1:05:49
SPEAKER_02: That was also really good.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_03: Hebrews fits perfectly, though, with those themes.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_03: The first couple chapters deal so much with the incarnation.
1:05:57
SPEAKER_03: Why did the Son of God take on flesh?
1:06:01
SPEAKER_03: It talks about, like, he's...
1:06:03
SPEAKER_03: He's the eternal soul of God, but he's been made Lord of the Angels.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_03: So he's not an angel.
1:06:08
SPEAKER_03: He becomes lower than an angel even though he's above the angels.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_03: Then it talks about,
1:06:11
SPEAKER_03: you know,
1:06:12
SPEAKER_03: in chapter 2,
1:06:12
SPEAKER_03: he's...
1:06:13
I love that phrase at the end of chapter 2 where it talks about
1:06:16
he partook of the
1:06:17
SPEAKER_03: same things,
1:06:18
SPEAKER_03: the flesh and blood.
1:06:19
SPEAKER_03: He was made in every way like his brothers so that he could help humans.
1:06:24
Like,
1:06:25
that's the language of at the end of chapter 2,
1:06:27
which I love so much.
1:06:29
And it speaks to,
1:06:30
again,
1:06:30
like what we've been talking about for a while,
1:06:32
which is...
1:06:33
SPEAKER_03: This mystery,
1:06:34
SPEAKER_03: like Advent is an invitation to behold once again the mystery that is so
1:06:40
foundational and essential to what we believe that speaks into
1:06:44
all of our moments,
1:06:45
SPEAKER_03: speaks into all of our hardships.
1:06:48
SPEAKER_03: Like you were talking, Raph, a little bit ago about like...
1:06:52
The Psalms being things that we sing and they drive us further
1:06:56
into Christ.
1:06:57
My thoughts were running towards Acts 16 where,
1:07:00
you know,
1:07:00
Paul and Silas,
1:07:01
they're in prison.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_03: And what are they singing?
1:07:03
SPEAKER_03: It says that they're singing the Psalms.
1:07:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're singing the Psalms, yeah, yeah.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_03: Once again, you find those same Advent themes.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_03: Those in darkness, a light has shined upon them.
1:07:14
SPEAKER_03: And what are they singing?
1:07:15
SPEAKER_03: They're using the language of the psalms.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_03: So I think it's very apt.
1:07:19
That's what fills our souls,
1:07:21
that fills our mouths,
1:07:23
especially at this time of year.
1:07:24
SPEAKER_00: And I was just looking here.
1:07:26
SPEAKER_00: There was one time we preached Advent from Exodus.
1:07:31
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
1:07:33
SPEAKER_00: So really kind of just like saying...
1:07:36
SPEAKER_00: Because the temptation is that we're preaching through certain passages.
1:07:42
if if you are not really kind of like if the centrality of
1:07:47
christ is not if christ
1:07:49
is not the drive of everything that you do it's going to be
1:07:53
hard yeah but yet there
1:07:55
is a way in which you could literally just preach advent from
1:07:59
anywhere yeah anyway
1:08:01
like so we just sometimes we're just we we were we were in
1:08:04
exodus i think in 2022
1:08:06
SPEAKER_00: And we really just didn't want to break from this.
1:08:10
SPEAKER_00: And so we just kept going.
1:08:12
SPEAKER_00: We were an exorcist for a very long time.
1:08:15
But the cool part is that we were right when they were building
1:08:18
the tabernacle.
1:08:20
SPEAKER_00: And when they were putting things in the tabernacle and saying,
1:08:23
SPEAKER_00: like,
1:08:24
SPEAKER_00: for example,
1:08:25
SPEAKER_00: the garments of the priest showing how Christ is the priest.
1:08:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, just kind of finding...
1:08:33
SPEAKER_00: But you're not here, by the way.
1:08:35
We're not twisting the scriptures so that we can fit them in
1:08:40
like I'm trying to fit
1:08:41
SPEAKER_00: in this thing into the trunk.
1:08:42
SPEAKER_00: We're kind of highlighting how these truths are all in there.
1:08:46
SPEAKER_03: They're baked in there anyway.
1:08:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're all baked in there.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's now...
1:08:55
SPEAKER_00: It is so beneficial, too, for our people.
1:08:59
Because I'm sure you're like the Charles Spurgeon,
1:09:03
the Prince of Creatures,
1:09:06
you know.
1:09:07
SPEAKER_00: But I'm sure you know this,
1:09:11
SPEAKER_00: that just by virtue of just preaching through passages,
1:09:16
SPEAKER_00: like preaching through everything,
1:09:20
SPEAKER_00: you're also teaching people how to read the Bible.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's good.
1:09:25
SPEAKER_00: Like you're teaching people how to see Christ on every page.
1:09:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:09:31
SPEAKER_00: Like,
1:09:31
SPEAKER_00: without having to,
1:09:33
SPEAKER_00: once again,
1:09:34
SPEAKER_00: break the arm,
1:09:35
SPEAKER_00: break the legs,
1:09:35
SPEAKER_00: and try to fit this thing in the trunk,
1:09:37
SPEAKER_00: right?
1:09:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
1:09:39
SPEAKER_00: Our metaphors are going crazy.
1:09:41
SPEAKER_00: But,
1:09:42
SPEAKER_00: you know,
1:09:42
but you're showing also how everything culminates with Christ
1:09:47
from the Psalms,
1:09:48
SPEAKER_00: from...
1:09:49
SPEAKER_00: Man, you can preach that from Hosea.
1:09:54
Every one of these are just all of them longing and aching for
1:10:00
Christ to come.
1:10:01
SPEAKER_00: So at the end of the day, it's one of those things.
1:10:05
SPEAKER_00: I was talking to a friend who preached Advent from...
1:10:10
SPEAKER_00: from proverbs.
1:10:13
But yet at the same time,
1:10:14
you look at that and you're like,
1:10:16
ah,
1:10:16
I don't know about that.
1:10:18
But you're looking through and you're seeing a father talking
1:10:23
to his sons and then
1:10:25
SPEAKER_00: those same sons go and literally like,
1:10:29
SPEAKER_00: yes,
1:10:29
the promise has been there that like the scepter is not going
1:10:33
to depart from the
1:10:34
SPEAKER_00: house of what?
1:10:35
SPEAKER_00: Of David.
1:10:36
SPEAKER_00: But like the first 90 days, what does Jeroboam do?
1:10:40
SPEAKER_00: Like pointing to the fact that Solomon is not it.
1:10:43
Like when I was young,
1:10:46
my father taught me Solomon is going to say David taught him.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_00: And we see even David when he's dying, he's teaching him.
1:10:53
He teaches and Solomon comes in and he gathers these little
1:10:56
kings and he tells them
1:10:58
SPEAKER_00: first 90 days they screw up the whole kingdom.
1:11:02
SPEAKER_00: But what are they all pointing to?
1:11:04
There's a longing for a perfect king who's going to come and
1:11:09
who's going to be that.
1:11:10
SPEAKER_00: And all of that stuff.
1:11:12
SPEAKER_00: You see what I mean?
1:11:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, you can do that from anywhere.
1:11:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, so I digress.
1:11:18
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
1:11:18
SPEAKER_03: Where can people find you?
1:11:19
SPEAKER_03: Where can people connect with you online?
1:11:22
SPEAKER_00: So,
1:11:22
SPEAKER_00: online,
1:11:23
SPEAKER_00: probably,
1:11:24
SPEAKER_00: like,
1:11:26
SPEAKER_00: obviously,
1:11:27
SPEAKER_00: like,
1:11:27
SPEAKER_00: there's a podcast in terms of just sermons at City Church.
1:11:30
SPEAKER_00: City Church.
1:11:31
SPEAKER_00: City Church PA.
1:11:33
SPEAKER_00: City Church PA.
1:11:34
SPEAKER_00: Or you say City Church Williamsport.
1:11:37
SPEAKER_00: You'll see an African there with a big smile.
1:11:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:11:40
SPEAKER_00: You won't miss him.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_00: And then also as well, I do have a sub stack.
1:11:48
SPEAKER_00: It's a blog.
1:11:49
SPEAKER_00: Accessible Theology, right?
1:11:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Accessible Theology.
1:11:52
So one of my biggest things is this coming year is probably
1:11:57
writing a lot more into that.
1:12:01
SPEAKER_00: And then also as well,
1:12:02
SPEAKER_00: just like,
1:12:02
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
1:12:03
SPEAKER_00: you can find me just,
1:12:04
SPEAKER_00: I think probably my website,
1:12:06
SPEAKER_00: like rafaelmganda.org.
1:12:09
SPEAKER_00: And from there, you can find everything else.
1:12:11
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
1:12:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:12:14
SPEAKER_00: And find Trevor also.
1:12:15
SPEAKER_00: I don't have anything.
1:12:17
SPEAKER_00: A new Substack is coming.
1:12:18
SPEAKER_00: Oh, stop.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_00: We got to get him.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_00: We'll get him now.
1:12:22
SPEAKER_00: You heard him say I'm a mentor, didn't you?
1:12:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:12:25
SPEAKER_00: We all heard him.
1:12:26
SPEAKER_00: We heard that.
1:12:27
SPEAKER_00: So therefore, I will mentor him this year towards that.
1:12:31
SPEAKER_00: I have a couple articles.
1:12:32
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:12:33
on the Brainerd Institute there we go but that's it and sermons
1:12:37
at city church as
1:12:38
well yeah that's it yeah pretty much we'll get them out there
1:12:42
soon yeah oh yes
1:12:44
that's a this mentoring goal for 2026 and then it will be
1:12:49
proven whether it will be
1:12:50
taken or not then all of a sudden testing his character and his
1:12:54
sanctification yes
1:12:56
SPEAKER_00: yes
1:12:59
SPEAKER_03: Brothers, thanks for coming.
1:13:01
SPEAKER_03: Thanks for being here.
1:13:02
SPEAKER_03: It's been a joy.
1:13:03
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having us.
1:13:04
SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
1:13:05
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
1:13:07
SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much for listening.
1:13:08
SPEAKER_03: I hope you've been blessed by this episode.
1:13:10
SPEAKER_03: I'm so,
1:13:10
SPEAKER_03: again,
1:13:10
thankful for Trevor and for Raphael for making the trek down
1:13:14
and for having this
1:13:14
SPEAKER_03: conversation.
1:13:15
SPEAKER_03: And I hope to make this more of a regular occurrence with them.
1:13:19
SPEAKER_03: Hopefully I can get them on the show again.
1:13:21
SPEAKER_03: It's always a joy to talk with them.
1:13:23
SPEAKER_03: If you haven't yet, please subscribe to Ministry Minded.
1:13:25
SPEAKER_03: You can do so.
1:13:26
SPEAKER_03: You can find the show on Apple,
1:13:27
SPEAKER_03: on Spotify,
1:13:28
SPEAKER_03: right here on Substack,
1:13:29
SPEAKER_03: wherever you get your podcasts.
1:13:30
SPEAKER_03: Hit subscribe.
1:13:31
SPEAKER_03: That helps out a lot.
1:13:32
SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much for your encouragement and your support.
1:13:34
And as always,
1:13:36
thank you for listening and thank you for commenting and for
1:13:38
following me.
1:13:39
And let me know if there's something you want me to cover in
1:13:41
future episodes.
1:13:43
SPEAKER_03: Pastor Eric and I are hoping to get on and get a few more in the bank.
1:13:47
SPEAKER_03: But until then, I'll see you on the next episode.
1:13:49
SPEAKER_03: Blessings.