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The hidden VHS tape that changed everything - MrBallen · Crime and Horror

0:00
Speaker 1: In December of 1990, a very concerned father was pacing
0:03
Speaker 1: around his kitchen, hoping that his daughter would call. But
0:06
Speaker 1: the phone stayed silent. And as it did, you know,
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Speaker 1: an anxious pit formed in his stomach. He was really
0:12
Speaker 1: worried about his daughter. He thought maybe she was in trouble.
0:15
Speaker 1: And also, he was worried that he himself might have
0:18
Speaker 1: accidentally just done something that could make things even worse.
0:22
Speaker 2: But before we get into that story.
0:25
Speaker 1: If you're a fan of the strange, dark, and mysterious
0:27
Speaker 1: delivered in story format, then you've come to the right
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Speaker 1: place because that's all.
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Speaker 2: We do, and we upload two, three, even four times
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Speaker 2: every week.
0:34
Speaker 1: So, if that's of interest to you, please hack the
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Speaker 1: Like Button's Facebook account and delete their date of birth
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0:48
Speaker 2: Okay, let's get into today's story.
1:12
Speaker 1: On the night of Friday, December 7th, 1990, a 39-year-old
1:15
Speaker 1: woman named Janet Dennis set four dinner plates on the
1:18
Speaker 1: kitchen table at her home in a suburb of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
1:22
Speaker 1: She had just finished making dinner for herself and her
1:24
Speaker 1: three kids, who at the current moment were watching a
1:27
Speaker 1: Christmas movie in the living room.
1:29
Speaker 2: Janet hummed along to the.
1:30
Speaker 1: TV as she brought the food over to the table,
1:32
Speaker 1: and then she called her kids to come over and eat.
1:34
Speaker 1: The kids got up, they rushed over, they sat down,
1:37
Speaker 1: and as they began eating... Janet told them about all
1:40
Speaker 1: these fun holiday plans that she had made for them
1:42
Speaker 1: over winter break. So Janet really loved Christmas. She typically
1:47
Speaker 1: would decorate her house like the instant Thanksgiving was over.
1:50
Speaker 1: And earlier that same day, she had gone to a
1:53
Speaker 1: toy store and filled the entire backseat of her car
1:55
Speaker 1: with gifts for the kids. But Janet really wanted this
1:59
Speaker 1: Christmas to be especially memorable for her kids, because the
2:03
Speaker 1: past few months had been really tough on them. Back
2:06
Speaker 1: in July, Janet had divorced their father, Leroy, and so
2:10
Speaker 1: now the kids only saw their dad about once a week. Now,
2:13
Speaker 1: Janet knew the kids missed him terribly, but actually, Leroy
2:17
Speaker 1: had never really been a very present father, which was
2:20
Speaker 1: part of the reason that Janet had asked for the
2:22
Speaker 1: divorce in the first place. They'd been married for 16 years,
2:25
Speaker 1: and for most of that time, Janet had pretty much
2:28
Speaker 1: felt like she was just a single parent, on top
2:31
Speaker 1: of being the primary breadwinner for the family. And this
2:34
Speaker 1: was because Leroy owned and operated this ranch that was
2:38
Speaker 1: located about 90 miles away in a rural town called Sealing.
2:41
Speaker 1: And this ranch really had never made much money. And
2:44
Speaker 1: so Leroy had begun working all these crazy long hours
2:48
Speaker 1: to basically avoid hiring extra help. But because of that,
2:52
Speaker 1: he was usually gone before sunrise every single day, and
2:55
Speaker 1: he didn't get home until very, very late. So he's
2:57
Speaker 1: gone all the time working, but for not much return,
3:00
Speaker 1: not much money. And so for years, Janet had picked
3:03
Speaker 1: up the slack. She worked as a school nurse. That
3:06
Speaker 1: way she could, you know, make some money. And then
3:08
Speaker 1: also she could be home to meet the kids after
3:10
Speaker 1: school every single day. And then when she was home,
3:13
Speaker 1: she managed the house by herself as well. And so
3:16
Speaker 1: that was ultimately really why a judge awarded her full
3:19
Speaker 1: custody of the kids back in July when the divorce
3:21
Speaker 1: was finalized. I mean, Leroy undeniably loved his kids, but
3:26
Speaker 1: he simply couldn't provide for them. And besides, At this point,
3:30
Speaker 1: he was now living on that ranch in Sealing, 90
3:32
Speaker 1: miles away, full time. And so, you know, his kids'
3:36
Speaker 1: schools and social lives were here in Oklahoma City.
3:39
Speaker 2: It just, it wasn't a match.
3:40
Speaker 1: And so now Janet put another serving of mashed potatoes
3:43
Speaker 1: on her plate. And as she did, she reminded her
3:45
Speaker 1: 12-year-old son, Tad, who was her oldest child, that he
3:48
Speaker 1: had a wrestling tournament at school in the morning and
3:51
Speaker 1: that they had to leave really early so they could
3:53
Speaker 1: get to the competition on time. After dinner, Tad helped
3:56
Speaker 1: his mom clear the table. And then they all went
3:58
Speaker 1: out to the living room to finish watching that Christmas
4:00
Speaker 1: movie together. And then when it was over, Janet followed
4:03
Speaker 1: her kids upstairs and helped get them all ready for bed.
4:06
Speaker 1: And then once they were all tucked in, she came
4:08
Speaker 1: back downstairs to finish cleaning up the kitchen. Now, this
4:11
Speaker 1: was about the time that Leroy, if they were still married,
4:14
Speaker 1: would be coming home from work. But now that Janet
4:17
Speaker 1: was divorced, she got to spend her evenings however she wanted.
4:21
Speaker 1: She thought about heading out to the garage to grab
4:23
Speaker 1: all those gifts she had purchased out of the car
4:25
Speaker 1: and bring them in to wrap them. But then, as
4:27
Speaker 1: she was about to head out, she saw a pair
4:29
Speaker 1: of headlights pull into her driveway. At 5.30 the next morning,
4:37
Speaker 1: Janet's 12-year-old son, Tad, shut off his alarm clock and
4:41
Speaker 1: rolled out of bed to get ready for his wrestling competition.
4:44
Speaker 1: Once he had his stuff together, he went downstairs, expecting
4:47
Speaker 1: to find his mother in the kitchen already making breakfast.
4:49
Speaker 1: But he didn't see her in there. So he just
4:52
Speaker 1: went down the hallway to her bedroom and he opened
4:54
Speaker 1: up her door and he looked in and there was
4:56
Speaker 1: his mom still lying in bed with the covers pulled
4:59
Speaker 1: all the way up over her head. So Tad, thinking
5:02
Speaker 1: this whole thing was a little bit odd because his
5:03
Speaker 1: mom was all over everything, he still called out for
5:06
Speaker 1: her to wake up because it was time to get
5:08
Speaker 1: ready to go.
5:10
Speaker 2: But his mom didn't move.
5:12
Speaker 1: And so he walked into the bedroom right next to
5:14
Speaker 1: the bed and pulled down the covers to shake her awake.
5:18
Speaker 1: But when he did that, he realized his mom is
5:21
Speaker 1: not in the bed at all. What he was looking
5:24
Speaker 1: at underneath the covers was actually a pile of pillows
5:28
Speaker 1: arranged to make it look like she was still sleeping
5:30
Speaker 1: in bed. Which was really weird because to Tad, it
5:34
Speaker 1: now seemed pretty obvious that his mother had actually left
5:37
Speaker 1: the house. But for some reason, she seemed to want
5:40
Speaker 1: him to think that she was still home. And so
5:43
Speaker 1: just to make sure, Tad left the bedroom and ran
5:46
Speaker 1: to the garage to check. And sure enough, his mother's
5:49
Speaker 1: car was gone. And now Tad, like he really didn't
5:51
Speaker 1: know what to do because in his entire life, his
5:55
Speaker 1: mother had never just left without telling him. And so
5:58
Speaker 1: Tad went back to the kitchen and he looked over
6:00
Speaker 1: at the clock on the oven and saw it was
6:02
Speaker 1: already 6 a.m., which meant he was already going to
6:05
Speaker 1: be late to his wrestling tournament. He wondered if maybe
6:07
Speaker 1: his mom had just like run out to the gas
6:09
Speaker 1: station or something quick like that and she'd be home
6:11
Speaker 1: any minute. But a few more minutes passed by and.
6:14
Speaker 2: She still didn't come home.
6:15
Speaker 1: And so at this point, Tad was becoming really anxious,
6:19
Speaker 1: and he started to worry that his mom had maybe
6:21
Speaker 1: gotten into a car accident or something. So he did
6:23
Speaker 1: the only thing he could think of. He went over
6:26
Speaker 1: to the kitchen phone, and he called his dad, who
6:28
Speaker 1: was out at the ranch in Sealing. And when his
6:30
Speaker 1: dad picked up, he told him everything that was going on. Now,
6:33
Speaker 1: Leroy was, you know, admittedly sort of confused by this
6:36
Speaker 1: whole thing, but he told his son, don't worry, your
6:38
Speaker 1: mom's going to be home any minute, I'm sure of it.
6:41
Speaker 1: But he also told him that just in case he
6:44
Speaker 1: would start driving over to their house right now, just
6:46
Speaker 1: to make sure everything was okay. Two hours later, Tad
6:51
Speaker 1: heard the sound of his father's truck pull into the driveway.
6:53
Speaker 1: And the instant he heard it, he jumped off the
6:55
Speaker 1: couch to go unlock the front door. When his dad
6:58
Speaker 1: walked into the house, the first thing he asked his
7:01
Speaker 1: son was, is mom home? And Tad said, no, she's
7:05
Speaker 1: still not here. Leroy nodded, but reassured his son that,
7:08
Speaker 1: you know, his mom was going to be home soon,
7:10
Speaker 1: that she would have a good explanation, it's okay. But,
7:13
Speaker 1: you know, as Tad followed his father all around the
7:16
Speaker 1: house at this point, basically looking for Janet and looking
7:19
Speaker 1: for any sign of maybe where she had gone, Tad
7:23
Speaker 1: began to notice a look of concern growing on his
7:25
Speaker 1: father's face. And that sort of gave Tad this sick
7:28
Speaker 1: feeling in his stomach that maybe something's really wrong here.
7:32
Speaker 1: And then, sure enough, at some point, his dad, after
7:35
Speaker 1: searching the whole house and just sort of standing there
7:37
Speaker 1: for a moment, he turned to Tad and he said,
7:39
Speaker 1: we got to call the police. Two days later, on Monday,
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Speaker 1: December 10th, Lieutenant Detective Craig Gravel with the Oklahoma City
7:50
Speaker 1: Police District knocked on the door to Janet Dennis' house.
7:53
Speaker 1: He had spoken on the phone that morning to Janet's ex-husband, Leroy.
7:57
Speaker 1: And now he heard Leroy's voice again, but from inside
7:59
Speaker 1: of the house right in front of him. calling to
8:02
Speaker 1: his kids to go on upstairs for a minute. And
8:04
Speaker 1: then a moment later, the door opened and Leroy invited
8:07
Speaker 1: Gravel inside. So even though it had been two days
8:10
Speaker 1: now since Leroy had called 911 and reported Janet missing,
8:14
Speaker 1: Gravel had only just been assigned to her case that morning.
8:17
Speaker 1: His captain had wanted to wait out the weekend before
8:20
Speaker 1: investigating formally because there had been no signs of violence
8:23
Speaker 1: at her home. And generally speaking, most adults who get
8:27
Speaker 1: reported missing show up within 48 hours. But that morning,
8:31
Speaker 1: when the case landed on Gravel's desk and he'd begun
8:34
Speaker 1: reading over the details, his gut told him that something
8:37
Speaker 1: had happened to her. From all appearances, she was a
8:40
Speaker 1: very responsible and loving mother with no history of just
8:44
Speaker 1: disappearing like this. So, Gravel had immediately put out an
8:48
Speaker 1: alert to all the police stations in the area to
8:50
Speaker 1: be on the lookout for Janet's car, which was a
8:52
Speaker 1: red Chevy Blazer. And then he had called Leroy and
8:55
Speaker 1: asked if they could speak. And so now Detective Gravel
8:58
Speaker 1: stepped inside of Janet's home and right away he noticed
9:01
Speaker 1: how tidy and how covered in Christmas decorations it was.
9:05
Speaker 1: I mean, the whole house seems so festive, which made
9:08
Speaker 1: Gravel think that Janet very likely had planned to be
9:12
Speaker 1: home for the holidays. And so he followed Leroy into
9:15
Speaker 1: the kitchen. He sat down at the table and the
9:18
Speaker 1: first question he had for Leroy was, have you heard
9:20
Speaker 1: from Janet since we spoke this morning?
9:23
Speaker 2: But Leroy said no.
9:24
Speaker 1: He said all he knew was that Janet had disappeared
9:26
Speaker 1: at some point between maybe 9 p.m. on Friday night
9:30
Speaker 1: when the kids went to bed and they had seen
9:31
Speaker 1: her when they went to bed and 6 a.m. the
9:34
Speaker 1: next morning when Tad had called him saying mom's not here.
9:37
Speaker 1: And Leroy said, you know, despite the fact that, you know,
9:39
Speaker 1: Janet is his ex-wife and there wasn't a whole lot
9:42
Speaker 1: of love lost there, he said he was really worried
9:45
Speaker 1: because Janet would never just leave their kids alone. Never. However,
9:49
Speaker 1: he did tell the detective that while he had been
9:51
Speaker 1: just walking around the house for any clues about where
9:53
Speaker 1: she might have gone, he said he had noticed that
9:56
Speaker 1: her toiletries bag was gone.
9:58
Speaker 2: So now he didn't really know what to think.
10:00
Speaker 1: That sort of did suggest that maybe this was planned,
10:03
Speaker 1: but just very out of character. Grable nodded and then
10:06
Speaker 1: asked Leroy, could he think of any place that Janet
10:09
Speaker 1: might go to, maybe to go blow off steam or something?
10:12
Speaker 2: Like someplace if she was really stressed, where would she go?
10:15
Speaker 1: Leroy said, you know, in the past, Janet had gone
10:17
Speaker 1: to Las Vegas to gamble. But again, she would never
10:20
Speaker 1: just go without warning and also would never just leave
10:24
Speaker 1: the kids unsupervised. Leroy said, at a minimum, she would
10:28
Speaker 1: have let him know if she was going away because, again,
10:31
Speaker 1: they have kids together. Even though they were divorced, they
10:33
Speaker 1: still basically were on decent terms. Gravel nodded and wrote
10:37
Speaker 1: down everything Leroy said.
10:39
Speaker 2: Now, to him, Leroy was definitely a suspect. But at
10:42
Speaker 2: this moment, he seemed to be cooperating.
10:45
Speaker 1: So Gravel wrapped up the interview and headed out, because
10:48
Speaker 1: for right now, what he really wanted to do was
10:50
Speaker 1: go speak to another person who had also called the
10:52
Speaker 1: police station that weekend about Janet Dennis. Later that morning,
11:05
Speaker 1: so on Monday, December 10th, 1990, Detective Gravel pulled up
11:09
Speaker 1: to the home of Arthur Olson, who.
11:11
Speaker 2: Was Janet's father.
11:12
Speaker 1: Arthur had also called the station that weekend, repeatedly, to
11:16
Speaker 1: ask if any progress had been made on his daughter's case.
11:19
Speaker 1: When Arthur opened his door, he looked frazzled, and he
11:22
Speaker 1: asked if Gravel had found his daughter yet, or had
11:24
Speaker 1: any idea where she might be, or if she was okay.
11:26
Speaker 1: Gravel told Arthur that, no, they still did not know
11:29
Speaker 1: where she was yet. However, he said that Leroy had
11:32
Speaker 1: told him that occasionally Janet would go to Las Vegas
11:35
Speaker 1: to gamble, to blow off steam. But Arthur echoed the
11:39
Speaker 1: same sentiment as Leroy when he brought this up, which
11:42
Speaker 1: is like, yeah, Janet would occasionally go to Las Vegas...
11:45
Speaker 1: But she would never do that without first making sure
11:49
Speaker 1: her kids were okay. She would never just leave in
11:51
Speaker 1: the middle of the night. That is not something she
11:53
Speaker 1: would do. And also, Arthur said, if she had gone
11:56
Speaker 1: to Vegas, like if that's where she was now, she
11:58
Speaker 1: wouldn't be alone. She would have gone with her new boyfriend.
12:01
Speaker 1: And when Arthur said this, that caught gravel by surprise.
12:05
Speaker 1: Because Leroy, the ex-husband, had definitely not mentioned a new boyfriend.
12:10
Speaker 2: In fact, no boyfriends had been mentioned at all.
12:13
Speaker 1: And so Gravel asked Arthur to tell him more about
12:15
Speaker 1: this boyfriend, because this is the first he was hearing
12:17
Speaker 1: of him. At which point Arthur said, well, you know,
12:19
Speaker 1: my daughter's actually been keeping this boyfriend a secret, both
12:23
Speaker 1: from Leroy and from the kids. Arthur said the guy's
12:26
Speaker 1: name was Jim Umbenhauer, and he was a soldier stationed
12:29
Speaker 1: at Fort Sill, which was an army base just a
12:31
Speaker 1: few towns over. But then this look of regret crossed
12:35
Speaker 1: Arthur's face. He told Gravel that he had actually only
12:38
Speaker 1: just met Jim for the first time this past weekend.
12:42
Speaker 1: after Janet was already missing. And the reason he met
12:46
Speaker 1: with him is he gave Jim a key to Janet's house.
12:49
Speaker 1: Gravel at this point looked up from his notepad and
12:51
Speaker 1: asked Arthur, like, what does that mean?
12:54
Speaker 2: Why did you do that?
12:55
Speaker 1: Now, Arthur went from looking regretful to looking straight up embarrassed,
13:00
Speaker 1: as he explained. And he told Gravel that just a
13:03
Speaker 1: few hours after Janet was reported missing, Jim had actually
13:07
Speaker 1: called him. And Jim had told him that some of
13:10
Speaker 1: his belongings were actually at Janet's place, and that Janet
13:14
Speaker 1: would definitely not want Leroy to find those things because
13:17
Speaker 1: their relationship was a secret. So Jim had told Arthur
13:20
Speaker 1: that his plan was to wait until Leroy took the
13:23
Speaker 1: kids out somewhere, and then when the house was empty,
13:26
Speaker 1: he would sneak in using the key that he was
13:28
Speaker 1: asking Arthur for, and he would just grab up all
13:31
Speaker 1: his stuff. That way, you know, Leroy wouldn't find it. Gravel,
13:34
Speaker 1: when he heard this, was shocked because to him it
13:36
Speaker 1: was like so obviously a bad idea for Arthur to
13:41
Speaker 1: have given Jim that key. Because as far as Gravel
13:43
Speaker 1: was concerned, Janet's house could be an active crime scene.
13:47
Speaker 1: But Arthur seemed to guess what Gravel was likely thinking
13:50
Speaker 1: here because he said, you know, he knew now that
13:52
Speaker 1: that had been a mistake.
13:54
Speaker 2: But back on Saturday, he just.
13:56
Speaker 1: Didn't believe Janet was truly missing here. Like he expected
14:00
Speaker 1: her to come home. Like this couldn't be a big deal, right?
14:03
Speaker 1: but now he said he was absolutely sick with guilt.
14:06
Speaker 1: Shortly after this, Gravel wrapped up their interview, then he
14:09
Speaker 1: hopped in his car, and he drove right back to
14:11
Speaker 1: the station. His top priority now was to track down
14:15
Speaker 1: the secret boyfriend, Jim Umbenhauer. But as soon as he
14:18
Speaker 1: got back to his desk, he learned there was actually
14:21
Speaker 1: a more pressing lead for him to follow up on.
14:25
Speaker 1: Janet's car had been located at the Oklahoma City airport.
14:29
Speaker 1: An hour later, Detective Gravel turned his car into the
14:32
Speaker 1: long-term parking garage at the Oklahoma City airport. He was
14:35
Speaker 1: there to follow up on a lead about Janet Dennis,
14:38
Speaker 1: who had disappeared from her house overnight on Friday, leaving
14:41
Speaker 1: her three young kids unattended. And right away, Gravel saw
14:45
Speaker 1: another police cruiser at the far end of the garage
14:48
Speaker 1: parked behind a Chevy Blazer, Janet's Chevy Blazer. And so Gravel,
14:52
Speaker 1: he pulled up behind the other cruiser and then he
14:54
Speaker 1: got out and just began walking around Janet's car, getting
14:58
Speaker 1: a look. And eventually he walked up and cupped his
15:00
Speaker 1: hands over his eyes so he could look through the
15:02
Speaker 1: window into the back seat. And when he looked in there,
15:05
Speaker 1: he saw it was completely full of new toys, which
15:08
Speaker 1: he assumed were Christmas presents for her kids. And when
15:11
Speaker 1: Gravel saw those presents, he instantly had a bad feeling
15:14
Speaker 1: in his stomach. Like his gut was telling him that
15:17
Speaker 1: Janet did not drive her car to this location. Somebody
15:21
Speaker 1: else did. And also, at this point, Gravel also had
15:25
Speaker 1: proof that she wasn't in Las Vegas.
15:29
Speaker 2: So right before Gravel.
15:30
Speaker 1: Had come out to the airport, his team had called
15:32
Speaker 1: into the centralized database that could access all of the
15:35
Speaker 1: hotel reservations in the Las Vegas area. And there were
15:39
Speaker 1: no reservations anywhere in the entire city under Janet's name. Now,
15:43
Speaker 1: of course, she could be there with somebody else, maybe
15:45
Speaker 1: under their name, but this at least suggested, very strongly
15:49
Speaker 1: suggested that she was not there. And so now Gravel
15:52
Speaker 1: was confident that Janet had not skipped town for some
15:56
Speaker 1: spur-of-the-moment gambling trip. Now, at this point, if something had
16:00
Speaker 1: happened to Janet, well, Gravel's primary suspect at this point
16:04
Speaker 1: was Janet's new boyfriend, her secret boyfriend, Jim Umbenhauer. However,
16:09
Speaker 1: Gravel still had not looked into him yet, which meant
16:12
Speaker 1: if he was involved in any way in Janet's disappearance, well,
16:16
Speaker 1: by today, by now, he could be anywhere. And so
16:19
Speaker 1: as Gravel is thinking about this, he was interrupted by
16:21
Speaker 1: the sound of a vehicle approaching. And he turned and
16:24
Speaker 1: he sees a car pull up right behind his cruiser,
16:27
Speaker 1: And then after they parked, this guy got out wearing
16:30
Speaker 1: a full army uniform and he walked over to Gravel
16:33
Speaker 1: and he introduced himself as Jim Umbenhauer. Late that afternoon,
16:39
Speaker 1: Gravel sat in an interview room at the station across
16:41
Speaker 1: from Janet's secret boyfriend, Jim Umbenhauer, and Jim was hooked
16:46
Speaker 1: up to a polygraph machine. So back at the airport,
16:49
Speaker 1: Jim had claimed that he'd been worried sick about Janet
16:51
Speaker 1: all weekend. and he'd been literally driving around town looking
16:54
Speaker 1: for her car. He claimed he had no idea that it,
16:58
Speaker 1: the car, or Detective Gravel, would be at the airport
17:01
Speaker 1: when he arrived, and it had just been like a
17:03
Speaker 1: total coincidence that he had just happened to find Janet's
17:06
Speaker 1: car at the exact moment police had found it. To Gravel,
17:10
Speaker 1: this felt like a fairly obvious lie, because the chances
17:14
Speaker 1: of Jim just running into Janet's car at the exact
17:17
Speaker 1: moment that police are finding it and that he's arriving
17:20
Speaker 1: to look at it It just felt like not possible.
17:23
Speaker 1: And Gravel figured that Jim must have already known where
17:26
Speaker 1: Janet's car was and had somehow learned that the police
17:29
Speaker 1: had found it. And so he had just sort of
17:30
Speaker 1: shown up. Gravel knew it was actually common for killers
17:34
Speaker 1: and kidnappers to actually intentionally insert themselves into an ongoing
17:38
Speaker 1: investigation of their victims to like, you know, influence the
17:41
Speaker 1: investigation or just keep a pulse on what's happening under
17:44
Speaker 1: the guise of being really helpful. And right away, Gravel
17:47
Speaker 1: had gotten the sense that Jim was doing just that.
17:50
Speaker 1: So Gravel had immediately asked Jim to not only come
17:53
Speaker 1: back to the station to talk, but to take a
17:56
Speaker 1: polygraph test.
17:58
Speaker 2: And Jim had agreed.
17:59
Speaker 1: And so now the polygraph examiner, so the person actually
18:02
Speaker 1: administering the polygraph, nodded to Gravel that they were ready
18:06
Speaker 1: to start. And so Gravel asked Jim, why did you
18:09
Speaker 1: ask for a key to sneak into Janet's house that
18:12
Speaker 1: past weekend? Now, Jim looked genuinely surprised that Gravel even
18:15
Speaker 1: knew about that. But he told Gravel that he had
18:18
Speaker 1: simply gone over there to get a box of love
18:20
Speaker 1: letters from Janet's bedroom that were between he and Janet.
18:24
Speaker 1: He said that Janet had wanted to keep their relationship private,
18:26
Speaker 1: especially from Leroy. As a precaution, he had, you know,
18:30
Speaker 1: asked Arthur to get the key to go in and
18:32
Speaker 1: get the letters. And he said, you know, the letters
18:34
Speaker 1: were actually right now out in his car. Now, Gravel
18:36
Speaker 1: knew that would be easy enough to verify. So he
18:39
Speaker 1: just moved on. And he asked Jim, where were you
18:42
Speaker 1: on Friday night? Which was the last night that Janet's
18:44
Speaker 1: kids had seen her. And Jim actually said that he
18:48
Speaker 1: had been at Janet's house that night, which caught Gravel
18:51
Speaker 1: completely off guard. Jim explained that he had gone over
18:54
Speaker 1: to Janet's house after the kids had gone to sleep
18:57
Speaker 1: so that he and Janet could secretly spend some time together. Now,
19:00
Speaker 1: at this point, Gravel really had to just stop for
19:02
Speaker 1: a second and collect his thoughts before asking more questions,
19:06
Speaker 1: because he really had not seen this coming. I mean,
19:08
Speaker 1: all day he had been trying to to place someone
19:11
Speaker 1: at Janet's house after 9 p.m. on that Friday. And
19:15
Speaker 1: now here was Jim admitting he had been there at
19:18
Speaker 1: the house on that Friday night after 9 p.m., making
19:21
Speaker 1: him the official last known person to have seen Janet.
19:25
Speaker 1: After a minute, Gravel told Jim to just go on.
19:27
Speaker 1: Tell me more about your last time seeing Janet. And
19:30
Speaker 1: Jim explained that he had stayed at Janet's house for
19:32
Speaker 1: a few hours and he had left really late to
19:35
Speaker 1: drive back to Fort Sills. because he was actually supposed
19:38
Speaker 1: to deploy to Afghanistan the very next day. But when
19:41
Speaker 1: he got back to base that night, he learned that
19:43
Speaker 1: his deployment had actually been delayed for a few weeks.
19:46
Speaker 1: So Jim said the next day he had called Janet's
19:48
Speaker 1: house to tell her the good news, that they had
19:51
Speaker 1: a few more weeks together before he went overseas. But
19:54
Speaker 1: he said Janet didn't answer the phone. A family member had,
19:57
Speaker 1: and they had said that Janet was missing. Gravel just
19:59
Speaker 1: sat back in his chair, taking all this in. To him,
20:02
Speaker 1: it just seemed impossible that Jim would be the last
20:05
Speaker 1: person to see Janet before she just vanished and And
20:08
Speaker 1: then he also just so happened to find her car
20:11
Speaker 1: at the exact moment the police arrived to investigate.
20:15
Speaker 2: So Gravel began.
20:16
Speaker 1: Asking Jim more questions, predominantly about his personal life. And
20:20
Speaker 1: it was at that point that he learned that Janet
20:23
Speaker 1: was not Jim's only girlfriend. Right now, he was actually
20:27
Speaker 1: living with another woman in a town closer to Fort Sill. Now,
20:30
Speaker 1: Jim admitted that he knew this looked bad, but he
20:33
Speaker 1: swore that the relationship with this other woman wasn't working.
20:37
Speaker 1: And he really just wanted to be with Janet. But Gravel,
20:40
Speaker 1: at this point, felt like he had heard enough. I mean,
20:42
Speaker 1: this guy really had dug himself a hole. And so
20:44
Speaker 1: what he really wanted to do was just discuss the
20:46
Speaker 1: results of this polygraph test with the examiner in private.
20:50
Speaker 1: So he ended the interview and sent Jim home. And
20:53
Speaker 1: once Jim was gone, Gravel turned to the examiner. And
20:56
Speaker 1: the examiner said, yep, Jim failed his test. Which meant
21:00
Speaker 1: he had been lying throughout the interview. And this was
21:03
Speaker 1: sort of unnerving for Gravel. I mean, because this guy
21:06
Speaker 1: that he had just interviewed, very likely, was the man
21:09
Speaker 1: responsible for Janet's disappearance. But Gravel knew that he would
21:13
Speaker 1: need more than polygraph results and sort of a gut
21:16
Speaker 1: feeling to arrest Jim and charge him with some sort
21:18
Speaker 1: of crime.
21:19
Speaker 2: Right now, he needed more evidence.
21:30
Speaker 1: A few days later, Detective Gravel was in his office
21:33
Speaker 1: pacing around reading through some documents. So after his interview
21:36
Speaker 1: with Jim, Gravel had decided to go to the school
21:39
Speaker 1: where Janet worked to speak to her colleagues about her
21:42
Speaker 1: relationship with Jim. Now, he didn't even know if anybody
21:45
Speaker 1: at the school would know about her relationship at all
21:48
Speaker 1: because she had basically kept it secret. And so Gravel
21:51
Speaker 1: had been really surprised to learn that not only did
21:54
Speaker 1: everybody at the school seem to know about Jim, but
21:56
Speaker 1: when they talked about Jim, they spoke with, you know,
21:59
Speaker 1: huge adoration. I mean, they really loved Jim and thought
22:02
Speaker 1: that he was great for Janet. And on top of that,
22:05
Speaker 1: they all seemed to think sort of collectively that Leroy
22:08
Speaker 1: was a terrible husband and had been glad when Janet
22:11
Speaker 1: finally dumped him. They said Leroy was very argumentative and
22:15
Speaker 1: he was very controlling and said the divorce had been
22:18
Speaker 1: really messy. And for Gravel, you know, he found that
22:20
Speaker 1: kind of interesting because until that point, he had thought
22:24
Speaker 1: that Leroy and Janet were basically on good terms. But
22:28
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it seemed like maybe that was
22:30
Speaker 1: not the case. So Gravel had gotten his hands on
22:33
Speaker 1: a copy of Janet and Leroy's divorce settlement, and those
22:36
Speaker 1: were the documents he was looking through. And as Gravel
22:39
Speaker 1: thumbed through it all, he saw that Leroy actually owed
22:42
Speaker 1: Janet a lot of money, $ 30, 000.
22:44
Speaker 2: Plus half of his ranch and ceiling.
22:48
Speaker 1: And that ranch, I mean, that was a really big
22:50
Speaker 1: deal because that was Leroy's entire livelihood. So to owe
22:54
Speaker 1: her half on top of the cash was like a
22:56
Speaker 1: huge deal. Plus, Gravel also knew that Janet had been
23:00
Speaker 1: given full custody of their kids. And so the way
23:02
Speaker 1: Gravel saw it, I mean, Leroy, he had a lot
23:05
Speaker 1: of reasons to be mad. And Gravel wondered if maybe
23:08
Speaker 1: he had been mad enough to do something to Janet.
23:12
Speaker 1: Just then, the phone on his desk rang and Gravel
23:14
Speaker 1: answered it. It was an undersheriff named Jerry Jones who
23:17
Speaker 1: worked in Dewey County, which is where Leroy's ranch was located.
23:20
Speaker 1: And he told Gravel that he had heard about Janet's
23:22
Speaker 1: disappearance and he wanted to help with the investigation in
23:25
Speaker 1: any way that he could. And he explained that right
23:28
Speaker 1: now there were lots of rumors sort of flying around
23:31
Speaker 1: ceiling that Leroy had killed Janet and that one of
23:35
Speaker 1: Leroy's neighbors had spotted a big bonfire on Leroy's property
23:40
Speaker 1: just about at the same time that Janet had disappeared.
23:44
Speaker 1: The next day, Gravel was back in the interview room
23:47
Speaker 1: with the polygraph examiner. And this time, Leroy was the
23:50
Speaker 1: one sitting across from the table from them, hooked up
23:53
Speaker 1: to the polygraph machine. Now, at first, Leroy definitely seemed
23:57
Speaker 1: nervous about taking this test. Like, he just seemed anxious.
24:00
Speaker 2: But as soon as they actually started, he quickly relaxed.
24:03
Speaker 1: It was almost like this was no big deal. Gravel
24:05
Speaker 1: began the interview by just asking him basic questions about
24:08
Speaker 1: his relationship with Janet and about their divorce. And Leroy
24:12
Speaker 1: would admit that he and Janet did fight a lot
24:14
Speaker 1: when they were married, and he said initially he had
24:17
Speaker 1: been very upset about owing Janet half of his ranch
24:21
Speaker 1: and ceiling. But he insisted that these days they were
24:24
Speaker 1: basically on good terms, and that he just really tried
24:27
Speaker 1: hard to focus on being a good father. And so
24:29
Speaker 1: not long after these sort of initial questions, Gravel asked
24:33
Speaker 1: Leroy to simply walk him through the night Janet disappeared. Like,
24:36
Speaker 1: tell me where you were, what you were doing. Leroy
24:38
Speaker 1: told Gravel that he had been at his mother's house
24:41
Speaker 1: that night, which was near his ranch and ceiling, and
24:44
Speaker 1: that the two of them just watched TV together and
24:46
Speaker 1: then they both went to sleep. This was the same
24:48
Speaker 1: story that Leroy had already given Gravel a few weeks
24:50
Speaker 1: ago when they first spoke, and Gravel had already called
24:54
Speaker 1: Leroy's mom and she had backed it up. Now, at
24:56
Speaker 1: this point, Gravel really wanted to ask Leroy about that
24:59
Speaker 1: bonfire that someone had spotted on his property, but he
25:03
Speaker 1: didn't want Leroy to know how suspicious of him he was.
25:06
Speaker 1: So Gravel decided that first he would check the polygraph
25:09
Speaker 1: test so far to see whether Leroy had been truthful
25:12
Speaker 1: throughout the interview. So he asked Leroy to hang tight
25:15
Speaker 1: for a few minutes while he stepped out into the
25:18
Speaker 1: hallway and spoke to the examiner about his test results.
25:21
Speaker 2: Leroy was like, okay, great. Yep, see you in a
25:23
Speaker 2: few minutes.
25:24
Speaker 1: But as he sat back down, Gravel could see he
25:27
Speaker 1: definitely looked anxious. And so Gravel, he went into the
25:30
Speaker 1: hallway and he walked over to the examiner and the
25:32
Speaker 1: examiner told him that unfortunately, Leroy's results were inconclusive, which
25:37
Speaker 1: meant that he couldn't tell if Leroy was lying or
25:40
Speaker 1: telling the truth. And so feeling frustrated, Gravel went back
25:43
Speaker 1: into the room and just asked Leroy, hey, would you
25:47
Speaker 1: mind taking this test again? Leroy, he glanced at his
25:50
Speaker 1: watch and said no. He'd been there for three hours
25:54
Speaker 1: already and he had to get home to the kids,
25:55
Speaker 1: so no, he couldn't. He clarified to Gravel that he
25:58
Speaker 1: had actually moved the kids from Janet's house in Oklahoma
26:01
Speaker 1: City back to his ranch all the way out in
26:03
Speaker 1: Sealing because the daily commute had been too hard for him.
26:06
Speaker 1: And so now he had a long drive back home
26:08
Speaker 1: and he just wanted to get going. He also told
26:10
Speaker 1: Gravel that he had heart problems. And so part of
26:13
Speaker 1: him didn't want to take the test again simply because
26:16
Speaker 1: it was too stressful and he was worried about his heart. Now,
26:19
Speaker 1: Gravel thought that was a pretty strange excuse. I mean,
26:21
Speaker 1: the kids were one thing, but Heart issues being the
26:25
Speaker 1: reason you can't take a polygraph, that just felt a
26:27
Speaker 1: little fishy. But at the same time, he couldn't force
26:30
Speaker 1: Leroy to stay at the station. Still, he didn't want
26:32
Speaker 1: to come out of this three-hour polygraph session empty-handed, so
26:36
Speaker 1: Gravel asked Leroy to do one last thing before he left,
26:39
Speaker 1: to sign a consent-to-search form which would allow investigators to
26:43
Speaker 1: come out to Sealing and search his ranch.
26:45
Speaker 2: And to Gravel's relief, Leroy said, sure.
26:53
Speaker 1: The morning after Leroy took his polygraph test, Detective Gravel
26:57
Speaker 1: made the long drive from Oklahoma City to Sealing, where
27:00
Speaker 1: Leroy's ranch was located, and where Gravel hoped to find the,
27:03
Speaker 1: at this point, body of his missing person, Janet Dennis.
27:07
Speaker 1: The previous night, Gravel had placed a call to Under
27:09
Speaker 1: Sheriff Jones, the officer from Dewey County who had volunteered
27:13
Speaker 1: to help with Janet's case. Gravel knew that Leroy's ranch
27:16
Speaker 1: was over 1,500 acres, so it's massive, and that it
27:20
Speaker 1: would likely take.
27:20
Speaker 2: Weeks to search the entire property.
27:22
Speaker 1: So Gravel had the undersheriff's recon team actually begin that
27:26
Speaker 1: big search while Gravel and his team began speaking to
27:29
Speaker 1: some of Leroy's neighbors. And so now.
27:32
Speaker 2: Gravel pulled up a long driveway and parked outside of
27:35
Speaker 2: a big farmhouse.
27:36
Speaker 1: And then after he stopped, he got out and walked
27:39
Speaker 1: up and knocked on the front door. A moment later,
27:41
Speaker 1: a middle-aged woman answered and Gravel explained who he was
27:45
Speaker 1: and that he had heard that one of Leroy's neighbors
27:47
Speaker 1: had seen a huge fire on Leroy's property around the
27:50
Speaker 1: time that Janet Dennis had disappeared. And this woman's eyes
27:54
Speaker 1: immediately went wide and she said that she was the
27:56
Speaker 1: one who had seen the fire. And it had caught
27:58
Speaker 1: her attention because there was a ton of smoke. So
28:01
Speaker 1: it must have been huge. Gravel felt the surge of
28:04
Speaker 1: adrenaline because he had this feeling that this woman was
28:07
Speaker 1: likely about to lead him directly to Janet's body. She
28:10
Speaker 1: was going to show like where this fire was. But
28:12
Speaker 1: then a guilty look came across her face and she
28:15
Speaker 1: apologized to Gravel. And she said, you know, after I
28:18
Speaker 1: had told some people about this fire, I learned that actually...
28:22
Speaker 1: The fire I saw had occurred a few days before
28:26
Speaker 1: Janet went missing.
28:27
Speaker 2: And for Gravel, I mean, this was truly crushing.
28:29
Speaker 1: But, you know, he asked the woman if she had
28:31
Speaker 1: spotted any other weird behavior on Leroy's ranch.
28:35
Speaker 2: But the woman just said no.
28:37
Speaker 1: So Gravel ultimately thanked her for her time and then
28:40
Speaker 1: felt completely defeated as he walked back to his car.
28:43
Speaker 1: Gravel spent the next few hours going door to door
28:45
Speaker 1: in the area, asking more of Leroy's neighbors about the
28:48
Speaker 1: rumors flying around town that Leroy had killed Janet. But
28:52
Speaker 1: pretty much everybody said that those rumors were largely connected
28:56
Speaker 1: to the bonfire that actually happened a few days before
29:00
Speaker 1: Janet disappeared. Which meant that by the time Gravel headed
29:03
Speaker 1: back to Oklahoma City, he had no actual proof that
29:07
Speaker 1: either Leroy or Jim had been involved in any way
29:10
Speaker 1: in Janet's disappearance. He really barely had any evidence at
29:13
Speaker 1: all that a crime had even occurred. And even though
29:16
Speaker 1: he strongly believed that Janet had been abducted and potentially killed,
29:20
Speaker 1: it was still possible technically possible that Janet disappeared by
29:24
Speaker 1: choice and was alive and well somewhere. And so at
29:26
Speaker 1: this point, gravel was completely out of Leeds, and he
29:29
Speaker 1: would just have to wait to see what would turn
29:31
Speaker 1: up on the ranch at the end of this massive
29:33
Speaker 1: search of the 1500 acres. Six weeks later, in early
29:38
Speaker 1: February of 1991, Gravel answered the phone in his office
29:42
Speaker 1: and the person on the other end of the line
29:44
Speaker 1: said that they had information about Janet Dennis. And this
29:47
Speaker 1: was fantastic news because at this point, Gravel's investigation had
29:52
Speaker 1: completely stalled out. Nobody knew what happened to Janet. She
29:55
Speaker 1: had not turned up. It was basically dead end after
29:57
Speaker 1: dead end. And also, so far, the search of Leroy's property,
30:01
Speaker 1: which was still ongoing, had yet to turn up anything
30:04
Speaker 1: useful for this investigation. The only other recent development in
30:07
Speaker 1: the case had happened a few weeks ago when Leroy
30:10
Speaker 1: had contacted Gravel about a box of Jim's belongings that
30:13
Speaker 1: he had found at Janet's house. Now, by this point,
30:16
Speaker 1: you know, Jim was no longer a secret. Leroy knew
30:18
Speaker 1: about the secret boyfriend. When Gravel looked inside this box,
30:22
Speaker 1: he found this VHS tape. And it was a pornography tape. Now,
30:26
Speaker 1: it was not like homemade. It was not Janet or
30:28
Speaker 1: Leroy or Jim or anybody. It was, you know, real
30:31
Speaker 1: actors in this pornography tape. But it was a really
30:34
Speaker 1: specific type of pornography. It showed this woman being tied
30:40
Speaker 1: up and burned. fictional, but that was the script. That's
30:44
Speaker 1: how the pornography went. When Grapple saw this, he wondered
30:48
Speaker 1: if this tape was actually why Jim had tried to
30:51
Speaker 1: get the key from Janet's father to sneak into Janet's house.
30:54
Speaker 1: If the real reason for that was actually to try
30:57
Speaker 1: to find this tape, this, you know, torture porn.
31:01
Speaker 2: And get it out of the house.
31:02
Speaker 1: And so Gravel had actually brought Jim down to the
31:04
Speaker 1: station to question him about the pornography tape. But Jim
31:08
Speaker 1: swore up and down. He had no idea where that
31:10
Speaker 1: video came from. And he had even taken another polygraph test.
31:14
Speaker 1: And this time he passed. And so now Gravel really
31:18
Speaker 1: didn't know what to believe. And he was desperate for
31:21
Speaker 1: really any new information. And so this caller saying they
31:24
Speaker 1: knew something about Janet was like the only positive development
31:28
Speaker 1: in the case that he had seen in quite a while.
31:30
Speaker 1: And the caller said that they actually had remembered something
31:33
Speaker 1: that might be important. And that's when Gravel realized that
31:37
Speaker 1: he recognized the caller's voice. They had actually spoken before.
31:46
Speaker 1: Based on forensic evidence and witness testimony... Here is a
31:49
Speaker 1: reconstruction of what police believe happened to Janet Dennis on
31:53
Speaker 1: the night of December 7th, 1990. Late that night, the
32:02
Speaker 1: killer was standing inside of Janet's bedroom by the side
32:05
Speaker 1: of her bed, just watching her sleep. And as they
32:08
Speaker 1: stared at her sleeping, the killer was just filled with rage,
32:13
Speaker 1: even though on the outside, the killer sort of projected
32:16
Speaker 1: a very affable nature and just was a very calm
32:18
Speaker 1: and very kind person inside. They loathed Janet. And one
32:24
Speaker 1: of the primary reasons they hated her so much is
32:28
Speaker 1: because of her recent decision-making. And so after standing there,
32:32
Speaker 1: just taking in the sight of like the object of
32:35
Speaker 1: their rage, they reached over and grabbed a rag they
32:39
Speaker 1: had soaked in chloroform, which is a chemical that when
32:41
Speaker 1: it's pushed up against your face, it can cause you
32:44
Speaker 1: to pass out if you breathe it in. And the killer,
32:46
Speaker 1: they put this rag right over Janet's mouth and until
32:49
Speaker 1: she passed out because they didn't want her waking up
32:52
Speaker 1: when they inevitably moved her. And then after using the chloroform,
32:56
Speaker 1: the killer grabbed Janet's purse and then also grabbed her
32:59
Speaker 1: toiletries to make it look like she had chosen to leave,
33:02
Speaker 1: to go on a trip somewhere. And then the killer
33:05
Speaker 1: actually lifted Janet up out of the bed, put her
33:08
Speaker 1: on the ground. Remember, she's passed out from this chemical.
33:11
Speaker 1: And then they put pillows in her bed under the
33:13
Speaker 1: sheets and kind of arranged them So at first glance,
33:16
Speaker 1: it would look like Janet was still in bed with
33:18
Speaker 1: the covers up over her head. This really was just
33:21
Speaker 1: in case one of the kids came into the bedroom
33:23
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. They would look and
33:25
Speaker 1: see their mom and they wouldn't think anything of it.
33:27
Speaker 1: And so now, you know, with the pillows in place
33:29
Speaker 1: and with the purse and the toiletries in hand, the
33:32
Speaker 1: killer scooped Janet back up off the ground and then
33:35
Speaker 1: carried her out of the house. And once they were outside,
33:38
Speaker 1: the killer placed Janet's unconscious body in the back of
33:42
Speaker 1: the killer's vehicle. then they drove her to a nearby
33:45
Speaker 1: house in Oklahoma.
33:46
Speaker 2: City that they owned.
33:47
Speaker 1: The killer took Janet inside of this home and tied
33:50
Speaker 1: her up so that even if she woke up from
33:52
Speaker 1: this chloroform, she wouldn't be able to escape. And then
33:56
Speaker 1: the killer drove back to Janet's house, parked their vehicle there,
34:00
Speaker 1: and used Janet's keys they had gotten from her purse
34:02
Speaker 1: to get into her Chevy Blazer. And then they drove
34:05
Speaker 1: her Blazer out to the airport and parked it in
34:08
Speaker 1: the long-term parking lot. Then the killer took a taxi
34:11
Speaker 1: from the airport... back to Janet's house where they got
34:15
Speaker 1: into their own vehicle again and drove back to the
34:17
Speaker 1: house where Janet was tied up.
34:19
Speaker 2: Then the killer put Janet, who was still passed.
34:22
Speaker 1: Out, back into the killer's vehicle and they drove her
34:26
Speaker 1: to another house they owned. This one was outside of
34:29
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City. And when they got to this house, the
34:32
Speaker 1: killer dragged Janet out of.
34:34
Speaker 2: The back of their vehicle.
34:35
Speaker 1: They put her on the ground and the killer went
34:37
Speaker 1: and got a shovel and then came back over and
34:39
Speaker 1: smashed her in the head with it until she was dead.
34:43
Speaker 1: And then once Janet was dead, the killer burned her
34:45
Speaker 1: body in the fire pit on their ranch. Janet's killer
34:49
Speaker 1: was her ex-husband, Leroy, who just basically hated Janet for
34:53
Speaker 1: getting full custody of their kids, for getting half of
34:56
Speaker 1: his ranch, for him being ordered to pay her $ 30, 000.
34:59
Speaker 1: Like he hated her and resented her for all that.
35:03
Speaker 1: And then when he found out she was also dating
35:05
Speaker 1: this new guy, Jim, he was consumed by jealousy and
35:09
Speaker 1: decided he needed to do something. which was ultimately to
35:13
Speaker 1: murder his ex-wife. And then after the murder, he invented
35:17
Speaker 1: an alibi and reported Janet missing himself in order to
35:20
Speaker 1: cast suspicion off of himself. But he was ultimately caught
35:24
Speaker 1: because Leroy's neighbor remembered seeing smoke from his burn pit.
35:28
Speaker 1: It was the same neighbor that Gravel had spoken to.
35:31
Speaker 1: She had first thought the fire happened after Janet went missing,
35:34
Speaker 1: and then she changed her mind and thought it happened
35:36
Speaker 1: maybe before. But then a few weeks later, she checked
35:40
Speaker 1: her calendar and realized she had gotten the date wrong
35:43
Speaker 1: again and that the fire was actually the day after
35:47
Speaker 1: Janet disappeared. And so she called Gravel right away and said,
35:50
Speaker 1: I have more information about Janet and it might be important.
35:54
Speaker 1: And so later that same day, after getting this information,
35:57
Speaker 1: the search team out at the property, out at the ranch,
36:01
Speaker 1: focused their efforts on the burn.
36:02
Speaker 2: Pits and they would eventually find Janet's remains.
36:06
Speaker 1: Leroy Dennis was convicted of first-degree murder and ultimately sentenced
36:10
Speaker 1: to life without parole. Thank you so much for watching.
36:22
Speaker 1: Let me know what you thought of today's episode in
36:24
Speaker 1: the comments. And remember, we have a whole playlist of
36:27
Speaker 1: true crime episodes ready for you to binge right now.
36:30
Speaker 1: So click here and give them a watch. All right,
36:33
Speaker 1: until next time, see ya.