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Transcript

Piranha 1978 & Alligator 1980 · Citizen Frame

• 0:00
  Music.
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  So I can get away. So you can get away? What about me?
• 0:29
  You can suit yourself, but first you're going to have to distract him. How?
• 0:33
  Well, how would I know? Just get him with his back to the opening there. You know, come on to it.
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  What if he's gay? I'll distract him.
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  Hi. Uh, nice night, huh?
• 0:53
  Listen, are you gay? All right, guys, like we said in the last podcast when
• 0:57
  we did Jaws 2, we promised you a sweet, sweet double bill, and that's what we're
• 1:01
  here to do. That's right.
• 1:04
  Today on Shark Month, we're doing fish and reptiles, double feature just for you.
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  Now, there is a method to the madness.
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  Yes, they're not sharks, but the reason I picked these two is because they're
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  probably the most popular of the time of the rip-off movies that were coming
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  out based on pretty much kind of ripping off Josh. Yeah.
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  Kind of like Halloween, then he had Friday the 13th, then Happy Birthday to Me and all those films.
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  These two were the ones that kind of took center stage. You did have Orca,
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  I think came out with Richard Harris, which is bloody awful.
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  But yeah, these are the two I think. And also, it is a stepping stone.
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  One of them is a stepping stone for a Joe Dante assistant that was Joe Dante, sorry.
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  Roger Corman assistant for a long time. That is obviously Joe Dante.
• 2:01
  Joe Dante is kind of became creature feature guy in the 80s.
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  I plug this guy's work as much as I can from the Burbs, Explorers,
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  Inner Space, Twilight Zone, Gremlins, The Howling. I mean, Jesus,
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  those are just from the 80s.
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  This guy, sadly, he's kind of just most good 80s directors kind of like disappear.
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  But yeah, this is Joe Dante's freshman outing.
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  Corman gave him the shot to go ahead and direct.
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  John Sayles is a board to be the screenwriter.
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  We'll be talking about him again in the next film, Alligator.
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  Okay, so we're here to talk 1978s.
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  Piranha, and 1980s Alligator.
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  I didn't realize, doing the research, John Sayles wrote both of these,
• 2:50
  so he really branched out there.
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  Oh, indeed. Yeah. He had his, I don't know, his fins in many scripts. That was a terrible pun.
• 3:00
  Wow. But, yeah, I remember. Fuck you, man. Fuck you. You give me that shit,
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  and I give you Christopher Walken. Are you still going on about that?
• 3:07
  For flip to get over it. Get over it. It was like a week ago.
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  Chill out. but anyway mr tourette yeah
• 3:14
  alligator and piranha i i sort
• 3:17
  of remember piranha it's been many many years since i watched them
• 3:20
  but the alligator has definitely stuck
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  out in my mind over the years since i watched it as a kid and
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  you know it actually put as i was talking on a
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  podcast you know a couple of weeks ago about it it actually put
• 3:33
  a real fear in me of like dropping insects or
• 3:36
  whatever are small animals not going to do it down the
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  toilet and they've grown really large in the
• 3:42
  sewers you know and coming back for revenge what other
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  creatures what other animals specifically would
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  you flush down a toilet well i don't flush any down the
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  toilet but i'm just saying like say the odd spider or whatever since
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  childhood i've always had that fear that they'll get into the sewers and
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  grow super big and be out for revenge and this
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  is basically down to alligator so thanks alligator
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  but it's a pretty cool film yeah we're
• 4:08
  gonna start off with piranha here there's a couple fun stories the piranha now
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  everybody in the industry loves corman and i can guarantee you spielberg loved
• 4:16
  corman before spielberg became spielberg it's funny story universal was gonna
• 4:21
  shoot the hell out of piranha yeah because it was coming out the same time as
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  jaws 2 so they weren't too happy kind of can see where they're coming from but
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  sometimes competition works.
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  And it turns out Steven Spielberg saw the film before it went to the theaters
• 4:35
  and he really loved it. So they dropped the lawsuit.
• 4:39
  Now, it's kind of funny, the reason I mentioned Spielberg because A,
• 4:43
  we know the way some of the films he's done.
• 4:46
  He's definitely going to be a Corman. He definitely studied Corman.
• 4:51
  Yeah. There's no way he didn't. Salve, he wasn't going to go after.
• 4:55
  He wasn't going to let those guys go after Corman because Corman works on budgets.
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  Yeah. Where Spielberg was working on million-dollar projects.
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  So out of respect to Corman, there's no way that lawsuit was going to happen. Yeah.
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  And I think as well with Corman, I think they all knew he had sort of form for
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  doing sort of copies of sort of bigger budget,
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  more famous films you know we did that star wars sort
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  of homage for want of a better word what
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  do you call that one with the half and caroline monroe mission beyond
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  the stars or something like that oh battle beyond the
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  stars yes that's it yes didn't john sales write
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  that too very possibly very possibly he
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  did he must have even he's a corman guy yeah and i
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  would say as well that apparently spielberg from
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  what i've read is also a fan of alligator so spielberg gets it if you know what
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  i mean yeah i mean so yeah especially with creature features i mean we'll talk
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  we'll give an example it's spielberg that plucked joe dante to do gremlins yeah
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  they also worked together,
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  he also did inner space with him he also did the twide zone movie yes i was
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  gonna say that yeah so so a lot of a lot of good came from piranha yeah there's
• 6:08
  no bad blood there i don't think there ever was but maybe from the studio at
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  the beginning there was so we talk about commando filmmaking.
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  And we talked about that with Mad Max. And.
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  And how you cut corners, and how you try to trick the system.
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  And there's a story, I just read up on it, it's kind of funny.
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  Corman was famous for presenting his films to the MPAA, and then they're going,
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  okay, you need to make this cut and this cut so you don't get an X.
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  They make the cuts, and then once the MPAA approved it, he put the cuts back
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  in and just released the film.
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  Because they never checked it out, so he would have got away with it anyway.
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  So, you know, good on him.
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  We love it. apparently though there are scenes in this piranha that um with
• 6:51
  nudity that actually corman surprisingly cut himself or got dante to cut,
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  because he felt that it was a bit you know in poor taste you know with all of
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  the carnage going on in a particular scene yeah the yeah you can see some of
• 7:08
  the swimsuits coming off and stuff like that he's definitely a boobs man every
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  every movie there's boobs in it yeah Well,
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  you know. That's it.
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  The thing is, he knows what sells.
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  And it was probably with the whole sort of basically, you know, tits, essentially.
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  He knew what audiences wanted. So he was a true businessman.
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  Yeah. Tits and fish. Exactly. Yeah. Forget it. Yeah.
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  Oh, dear. Yeah. Anyway. Right. Moving on.
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  One of my to me the greatest makeup effects
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  artists of all time are two men rick baker and tom yeah
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  well there's three of them i would say tom savini rick
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  baker and the gentleman is probably my favorite rob botan and yeah rob botan
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  is is to me makeup effects god we talked about him plenty of times from the
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  howling total recall witches of eastwick robocop the guy's fucking master,
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  and of course Creighton, the,
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  incredible Blake from The Fog, and playing Blake.
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  And he was the visual effects supervisor on this. He was 17 years old. That's right, yeah.
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  I would say that, you know, he was obviously still sort of learning the ropes,
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  because, you know what I mean? Don't start insulting.
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  No, no, I'm not having a pop, but let's just say that some of the visual effects
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  here aren't as good as his later visual effects. That's all I'll say.
• 8:38
  Oh, come on. Yeah, but that's just. April 17th. Yes. No.
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  What's the budget in this film? Well, I know. It was like $800,000.
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  Yeah. I mean, come on. No, Farnell. Um.
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  All right, so let's just jump into this. We got Bradford Dillman as Paul Grogan.
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  Heather Menzies as Maggie.
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  The great Kevin McCarthy as Dr. Hoke.
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  Keating to win as Jack. Dick Miller, who I love to see Dick Miller.
• 9:06
  Yep. Sally just passed away. He's in every Dante film.
• 9:09
  I know. He plays Buck. Barbara Steele as Dr. Mengers, the worst actress ever.
• 9:14
  She's all right. Oh, here we go.
• 9:17
  Fuck off. She's all right. She's decent enough.
• 9:22
  We'll talk about the ending of this film, too. What the fuck?
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  Yeah, it's quite cheesy.
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  And then we got Betty Laura, the Colonel, and Mr. DeMont. Yep.
• 9:34
  Let's talk about the opening with these two dipshits.
• 9:37
  Don't go skinny dipping. You know what I mean? You're either going to get killed
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  by Jason Voorhees, Jaws, or mutated piranha.
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  Who the fuck breaks into a military facility?
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  I know. and then sees this
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  water storage unit and decides
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  to go swimming in it not knowing what's in it and especially
• 10:00
  when it's surrounded by like oil containers and other shit yeah I mean I know
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  they're dipshits but this is taking the piss but the sort of plot has to be
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  forwarded and this has to be set up and private detective lady has to go and
• 10:16
  investigate them getting eaten or their disappearance so yeah,
• 10:21
  to be fair, they do address it in that I think it's the boyfriend says,
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  but we don't know what's in there or what's to that effect.
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  And then the girlfriend says, oh, come on.
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  You know, and he says, oh, okay then. And I think she pushes him into the pool
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  or something. Who knows?
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  There's no to be fair. I know, it's stupid, but come on, it's piranha.
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  It's terrible. And then yes, pushes him in and she's like, idiot.
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  Well, no, he's not the idiot, you're the idiot,
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  So, obviously, they get numbed on. I will say this. Because he probably couldn't
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  afford a lot of effects, they use a lot of blood. A lot of blood in this one.
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  Yes. So, I'll give him that. They try their best. You know, a lot of corn syrup in here.
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  Now, so when he's getting eaten, I love the sound effects. Yes.
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  Whatever it was. I don't know. It was like radar or something. I don't know.
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  Well, there's a nice shot where, and this is what I'm looking for for this film.
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  I'm looking for nice little glimpses and nice little shots that Dante will give
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  us as we'll see in his future work,
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  because this is the movie that clearly put him on the map and so that's what
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  I'm looking at here I'm not looking for acting because you're not getting it,
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  and you get some good acting from the veterans that Corman's worked with like
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  Keenan Nguyen and Kevin McCarthy and Dick Miller those are all veterans of Corman's
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  acting class so you're going to have those guys you know,
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  they know how to work well they carry it very much,
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  yeah, because they're in their own little scenes,
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  so you got Dick Miller in the end, you got McCarthy in the middle,
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  and you got Keenan Wynn in the beginning, so you have these three veteran Corman actors.
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  Pepper it in so it works, but anyways there's a nice shot when he gets eaten and then the dumb idiot,
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  the camera pans up to the moon, right? And you hear her get,
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  ah, she's getting eaten.
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  And then it cuts to her hand coming up from the pool.
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  And then the hand fades.
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  But I thought they should have left that part out. They should have just focused
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  on the moon and her screaming.
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  I thought that would have been more effective than showing the bloody hand.
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  Save the budget for something else. The bloody hand. You know, budget.
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  I mean, it doesn't cost much to throw a bit of corn syrup around a hand.
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  No, I thought that was pretty cool I think that sets it up as Yeah,
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  this is B-movie schlocky horror So, yeah, I think it works well enough,
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  I don't. Well, that's okay. That's fair enough. I can accept other people's
• 13:02
  opinions to mine. Unlike some people.
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  Don't get out of this fucking PC shit. That's not PC. Bastard.
• 13:09
  Bullshit. That's not PC. That's me. You're a diplomat.
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  What? Oh, gentleman. My fuck off.
• 13:17
  I love the introduction to our boy here. Our hero, the drunk. Yeah.
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  It's pretty funny. Jack brings him his groceries.
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  I'm a little confused here okay so help me out here go ahead,
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  we've got the leading man who's a
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  character actor who's been in hundreds of TV shows Bradford Dillman
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  so I'll give him a shout but he plays Paul Grogan and his buddy Jack comes to
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  his house that's by Keenan Wynn the vet and he gives him scotch gin bourbon
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  and tequila Yep And some corns,
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  weed or something To make whatever he's making,
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  And he's clearly an alcoholic And they emphasize this in this scene,
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  And Jack is in the speech I kind of like it Like you said, Jack is the veteran
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  actor here So Jack tells him He knows he's drinking too much And he looks at
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  Grogan and he says Listen, I'm here because that river feeds me That river,
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  Bees me So I'm probably giving us too much credit,
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  The river washes my clothes.
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  It cleans me. That's my river.
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  Why are you here? And then he goes, well, I'm here because of Scotch,
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  gin, bourbon, and tequila.
• 14:34
  Now, he mentions we'll meet his daughter. I think it's Susie.
• 14:38
  Yes. Who's at the camp. Creepy kids.
• 14:41
  Yeah, the creepy little Carrie kids. Yeah, exactly.
• 14:45
  Why is he not with the guy? He's divorced, but the kid's up the road.
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  Does the kids live with him or not? it's not
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  really properly apparently there's
• 14:56
  a novelization for this that goes into more detail but as far as i could gather
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  he either has custody of of the child the wee girl and she's at summer camp
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  about the hen her mates are about to get eaten by mutated piranhas or she's
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  the mother is in custody of her and we just don't see the mother,
• 15:17
  So fucking is where the mother is. I don't know. But maybe he's going to read the novelization.
• 15:21
  The mother, I think, if she's in the custody of the mother, that's why he's
• 15:25
  drinking. But he knows the daughter is up the road at some count.
• 15:29
  Yes, that's right. But later on, well, I suppose whenever things kick off,
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  the mother possibly wouldn't know about it.
• 15:35
  Or she would be there because it's only really him and the private detective
• 15:39
  lady who know about it. So, yeah.
• 15:42
  Yeah, it sort of makes sense in a way.
• 15:46
  So I introduced to Maggie, this dipshit And.
• 15:50
  She's hired to investigate missing kids Yep And so she's looking for the two
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  dipshits Uh huh He just walks into this man's place He walks into Paul's place
• 16:00
  And just goes, hey what's up You want to help me look for some kids,
• 16:04
  Yeah, if it had been me I'd have told her to get the fuck out of my house Oh,
• 16:08
  shot her Yeah, well, right, that's a bit extreme But you know,
• 16:12
  that wouldn't surprise me with you Either.
• 16:16
  I'd have just asked her to politely leave whereas Cairn would have shot her
• 16:19
  so you know take out of that what you want you're in my house yeah get the fuck out trespasser.
• 16:31
  But yeah I mean I think they were playing on the whole sort of she's nosy,
• 16:35
  she's a private detective she'll do whatever it takes to solve the case type
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  thing but she's a stupid bastard,
• 16:42
  so that's just some really bad banter it's terrible banter I know it's supposed
• 16:47
  to be comedic it's terrible it's not even funny it's just bad,
• 16:52
  And there's a reason why John Sayles kind of went on to do drama,
• 16:56
  because I don't think it's- I think comedy is his forte.
• 17:00
  Yeah, he got, I think the Oscar now for Lone Star, which is a good film with
• 17:03
  Matthew McConaughey and Passionfish.
• 17:06
  Not the kind of fish we're talking about here. Yeah. But Passionfish is a good
• 17:09
  movie he did too. I think he directed both those actually as well.
• 17:13
  But anyways, yeah, it's just the dialogue. It's supposed to be,
• 17:17
  you're supposed to go, ha, ha, ha, what playful banter. No, it's shit.
• 17:21
  But here, it works. Because they shag each other, even though it's not seen on screen.
• 17:26
  Yeah, so, didn't they? Yes. Because he goes, I was looking for the blanket or something.
• 17:31
  Yes, apparently, and what I've read up on, and I haven't read the novelization,
• 17:36
  but apparently in the novelization, it is confirmed that they do,
• 17:40
  yes, shag. So, she sleeps with the drunk.
• 17:43
  Yes, she'd do anything to get to the fucking bottom of the case.
• 17:47
  But it's because of all that sort of playful, and so... So playful.
• 17:54
  Flirting and banter, you know. So it obviously works.
• 17:58
  He's a silver-tongued cavalier. What can I say? Reminds me of himself.
• 18:04
  So fuck off. She asks him, so is there any places I can look around here?
• 18:09
  Well, there's Jack just down the road there. He's a cabin as well.
• 18:13
  Not really. Oh, yeah, there's some old military facility.
• 18:17
  The experimental army base. Okay.
• 18:21
  Why don't we try there? And then she forces him to come. I don't know how that
• 18:24
  happened, but okay. Yeah. On the raft? On the raft?
• 18:27
  No, they're taking the Jeep. Oh, that's right. The Jeep crisis.
• 18:31
  That's right. It goes 18. Yeah.
• 18:34
  So they take the Jeep up and they're going to look around the facility and they're
• 18:39
  screaming the names, David or whatever the other idiot's name is. I don't know. Yeah.
• 18:43
  So why is she carrying a hatchet?
• 18:47
  Yeah. Well, I don't know. I'm assuming maybe they used it to get into the place.
• 18:52
  I didn't see it. No, no. It's maybe a cut scene.
• 18:56
  Oh, okay. scene. But yes, there's also a real contrivance that bugged me whenever
• 19:01
  just by pure chance she finds the necklace of the female dipshit,
• 19:06
  you know, confirming that they were there.
• 19:09
  Barbara was her name. And then they go in the lab and Dante's on record saying,
• 19:14
  you have these mutant fish.
• 19:17
  I wanted to see more of the mutant lizards and stuff. It was a lizard. There was a fish.
• 19:23
  Well, it was walking about, breathing her.
• 19:26
  No, there were amphibians. okay so not a fish an amphibian then right,
• 19:30
  well that is a water creature of sorts yeah but it's not a fish but anyway I
• 19:35
  wanted to see more it is they're mutated fish listen to what fucking Kevin McCarthy tells him right Mr.
• 19:41
  Fucking scientist right well I'm not one of my scientists he fucking tells him
• 19:45
  right but I wanted to see more of them that's my point but anyways they're stop
• 19:49
  motion and he only did that because he wanted to pay homage to Ray Harryhausen
• 19:52
  correct yeah and as you know Joe Dante's career has been built on creature features.
• 19:59
  Yes. Whether it's Gremlins, Gremlins 2, he did one called Small Soldiers.
• 20:06
  Yes, that's right. So he's big into that, that kind of stopped most of the stuff.
• 20:10
  So good on him. I get that. I don't like that with Corman. Corman would probably
• 20:13
  say, yeah, go for it because that's what Corman's all about. Apparently.
• 20:17
  He's all like Tarantino. Yeah. I know you guys are laughing at me right now
• 20:21
  when I compare the two, but believe it or not, Corman is a man who's the master.
• 20:26
  It was the master. and still is, who knows how to pay the nod to the big budget
• 20:31
  films like you said in the beginning of the podcast or to films he loved as a kid.
• 20:35
  Tarantino does the exact same thing. I know. Yes, Tarantino's a little more
• 20:38
  smarter, don't get me wrong, but concept's still the same.
• 20:43
  Apparently Dante wanted more of these stop-motion creatures,
• 20:47
  but the budget just wouldn't allow it.
• 20:50
  Yep, I can see that. Yeah. Colmer was very strict. He was a strict businessman
• 20:55
  in many ways. Well. Good on him.
• 20:59
  So they drained the pond. Right, right. I have a question here.
• 21:02
  I got a big question with the draining of the pond. Yes, I was going to say that.
• 21:05
  Okay, let's see. I'll let you answer the question, but it's probably the same
• 21:09
  question. It probably is. Go ahead.
• 21:11
  How come they see the dog's bones, but they don't see the human remains?
• 21:16
  I can only assume. That's not my question, but I can only assume they drifted off somewhere else.
• 21:21
  Or, I don't know, maybe the piranha were super hungry. I don't know.
• 21:24
  I don't know. It's not extreme. Because the bones, the drain goes through that little cage thing.
• 21:29
  Yeah. So, the sewer thing. So, that goes into the lake. Maybe the piranha decided
• 21:34
  they would clear up the evidence and eat the bones as well. I don't know.
• 21:38
  My question is, private detective lady, whenever she hits the switch.
• 21:43
  Is that right? It's Maggie.
• 21:44
  I know Maggie, yes. whenever Maggie hits the switch and basically drains it
• 21:49
  basically everything that happens in this film and all the deaths are her fault then, yeah?
• 21:54
  Yes. Yes, she lets them out into basically the river.
• 21:59
  Yeah, so it's her fault, all of the deaths here. Hello, Maggie.
• 22:06
  Well, I suppose it's her and the military because they basically created these
• 22:11
  mutants to fight in Vietnam.
• 22:13
  What? Oh my God. We'll get to that. Don't talk to that scene.
• 22:17
  That is the best data dump ever for a film.
• 22:22
  We're going to get to it. But yeah, so Dr. Hulk kind of data dumps while you're there.
• 22:27
  And that's just like, he doesn't give you the whole thing. He just says,
• 22:30
  oh, I'm working on some fish. What you've just done is release them.
• 22:34
  It's a secret. You stupid idiot.
• 22:37
  He takes the Jeep and he crashes the Jeep because he's an idiot.
• 22:42
  And so they have to take the raft, which I'm fine with. You have to get them
• 22:45
  to the rack. Yeah, you have to get them on the river, essentially, which is fair enough.
• 22:49
  By the way, I would say with the crisis in the Jeep and a few times in this
• 22:52
  film, what I really like is whenever they're, instead of getting the car to
• 22:57
  go really fast with like a stuntman or woman in it, they just basically drive
• 23:01
  it at a normal speed and then speed up the footage in post-production.
• 23:04
  I really like that. Yeah, sir.
• 23:08
  It's like they had to fast forward on the video. That's A-Team.
• 23:12
  Oh, totally. hit fast forward on the videotape there.
• 23:17
  How do we make this car go faster we can't reshoot it I got it forward yeah
• 23:21
  I appreciate little things like that,
• 23:25
  that's why I love Corman he's improvising,
• 23:29
  he's like I can see him now the jeep flips the whole crew is like the jeep wasn't
• 23:34
  really going fast no problem we'll fix it in post hit fast forward.
• 23:44
  It's not even it's almost Penny Hill you know,
• 23:50
  Exactly.
• 23:53
  See, people in the States know Benny Hill. So there's a reference they would
• 23:56
  get. Benny Hill is well-loved in the States.
• 24:00
  So we meet the fucking little bastard kids.
• 24:05
  We meet Bessie, who I love. I love her. Blake, I can't remember her name,
• 24:10
  but she was in The Howling. Yeah.
• 24:12
  Joe Dondi always casts her. I like her. She's cute. What about Absolut?
• 24:16
  What about Absolut? Laura and Betsy, who are the main characters here.
• 24:20
  And then you got the stupid Mr. Dumont. I was just about to say about him. Yeah.
• 24:25
  Yeah, Paul Bartell plays him. And then you got Susie, who's their fucking... Devil child?
• 24:31
  Little fucking... Oh, my God. Who's got a lot of flaws.
• 24:35
  It is great thing about Cormit. They got flaws galore, but you don't care because
• 24:41
  it's charming. Exactly.
• 24:43
  It's about the tone. and, you know, they're just trying to make a fun film and
• 24:48
  that comes across, you know, within it. So you don't mind things like that.
• 24:52
  So, in fact, I would sort of welcome them, you know what I mean?
• 24:56
  It adds to the sort of camp and the schlock and the sort of the enjoyment factor.
• 25:01
  So no problem at all. All good. And that kind of piggybacks a bit when they're wrapped,
• 25:08
  They're Maggie and the doctor and Paul are now Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer going down on the raft. Yep.
• 25:20
  And they go to Jack's place. Uh-huh. And Jack, his legs were being eaten.
• 25:24
  That's a good little fact, actually. It is, yeah. But it's so funny how it's done.
• 25:29
  His body's on shore because he was dragging himself away because his feet were
• 25:34
  in the water when he got eaten.
• 25:36
  Half his legs were. and his whole body's intact.
• 25:39
  Besides from the knees down, it's pure bone. I know.
• 25:43
  I know. It was like, and then, and then to say, yeah, so we'll just bury him.
• 25:49
  I'm like, would you not be better off calling the cops or something?
• 25:53
  You know, or report the staff? The funniest line.
• 25:56
  And I, see, the one thing I have problem with the film, is I can't tell if the
• 26:01
  acting's serious in this part or not.
• 26:04
  So he goes, oh my God, he
• 26:07
  must have dragged himself out of the way he must have bled to death well let's
• 26:11
  get a shovel yeah it's like will they're not being investigated will somebody
• 26:16
  not notice he's missing and will not incriminate yourself would you not be better
• 26:21
  calling the police you know or even just.
• 26:25
  Go to his house, put a blanket over him and go, we'll be back, buddy, or something.
• 26:29
  Yeah, something respectful and that actual real people in the real world would do.
• 26:34
  You see the police going, hey, Mr. Grogan, what happened to Jack? Oh, I buried him.
• 26:39
  He was eaten by mutant piranha fish, so I buried him.
• 26:45
  I got confused here. So you know the kid and the man canoeing? Yes.
• 26:51
  And the man puts his hand down and the fucking blood flying everywhere.
• 26:55
  It was actually two months of blood in some of these scenes.
• 26:59
  Well, he gets eaten, right? But that's not the kid's dad.
• 27:04
  The kid's dad is the doctor, Hulk. What?
• 27:10
  I thought that was his dad. That's what I thought.
• 27:15
  Then who the fuck was this guy? Was he like the local Peter or something?
• 27:19
  He's a school. He's a neighborhood priest.
• 27:24
  No listen listen okay okay
• 27:27
  so the guy gets eaten yeah
• 27:31
  he's like oh my god and they show up with the raft yes and then the dr hulk
• 27:37
  jumps in to save the kid sacrificing himself i know that yeah and and when they
• 27:44
  have to put the body in to distract the fish because the fish are eating away at the raft,
• 27:51
  so they have to chuck his body in as a distraction.
• 27:54
  No respect for his body?
• 27:57
  No, the kid starts crying. No, they're eating my father. They're eating my father.
• 28:01
  I know that. So it's his dad.
• 28:03
  So Dr. Hulk is the dad. No, he's talking about... No, no.
• 28:08
  He's talking about the guy... No. No! Listen...
• 28:13
  He's on the canoe with the dude. Now, I'm sure there's some line we've missed
• 28:17
  where his son is or something.
• 28:19
  So he's on the raft. He sees his kid. He jumps in to get him because it's his kid.
• 28:26
  He gets him from on top of the canoe, puts him on the raft. He gets eaten.
• 28:30
  Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom, right?
• 28:31
  And they drag him up, and then he dies. And then when they push his body in
• 28:37
  as a distraction for the piranha, you hear the kid say, don't do that.
• 28:40
  They're eating my father.
• 28:42
  Don't do that. they're eating my father. I remember the line by the kid but
• 28:45
  what... He says that when Dr.
• 28:47
  Hulk is getting eaten. I think it's just bad editing or bad placement to that line.
• 28:51
  I think the kid's talking about the dude who he was on the boat with.
• 28:56
  You know, the little canoe thing.
• 28:57
  He's talking about them. He's saying don't do it because he's saying don't do
• 29:02
  it because they leaked him just like the at my dad. I think that's what he suggested. Oh, baby.
• 29:06
  Okay, let me ask you this. I can't believe we're spending 10 minutes on this.
• 29:09
  Let me ask. So why did Dr. Holt jump in?
• 29:14
  Because that's his character arc and his character journey, where it's a self-sacrifice
• 29:20
  journey, an arc where he's finally... In reality, Kevin McCarthy says,
• 29:26
  yes, he'll appear in this film, but kill me off quick.
• 29:29
  But he does have... It's basically his regret after what Maggie and all have
• 29:35
  said to him about, and they're threatening to punch him and throw him overboard
• 29:38
  because he was such a bastard with these experiments. He's a mad scientist, basically.
• 29:43
  Yeah, but in all fairness, Maggie caused all this. She should have gotten eaten.
• 29:48
  Well, I know that there, but sure, you know, but she's a brass knack.
• 29:51
  She just walks into people's houses and takes over, you know.
• 29:55
  Anyway, no, I think it was basically his redemption for all of the crazy experiments.
• 30:02
  No, but the dude on the boat with the kid was almost certainly his dad.
• 30:07
  No, that's why I was getting confused. Yeah, yeah, no, he was. As far as I'm aware.
• 30:13
  All right, so one of the best scenes of all time.
• 30:16
  Go ahead. They have to get to the dam to get to the ranger and tell him not
• 30:20
  to open the dam because then the piranha will come through.
• 30:25
  So he gets to them, and we quickly cut to the military's there. Wow, that was quick.
• 30:31
  So there we meet the colonel and worst actors ever, Dr.
• 30:36
  Mengers, who you said should have got the Oscar. She's decent.
• 30:41
  I like Barbara Steele, so yeah. I mean, you can see she's obviously sort of
• 30:45
  gone through the motions a bit, you know?
• 30:47
  And this is a quick payday, but it's effective, it works, and it's Barbara Steele.
• 30:51
  But anyway... Who was Barbara Steele? She was in Black Sunday, like old Mario Bava.
• 30:57
  Oh, I remember they had Black Sunday, that's right. That was a creepy movie.
• 31:01
  Yeah, and she was the main vampire zombie woman in it. Yeah,
• 31:05
  she looks like a vampire.
• 31:06
  With the haunting eyes, yeah. Yeah.
• 31:09
  I'm going to watch that again. We ran an interview with her in Phantasmagoria a couple of years ago.
• 31:15
  Oh, so that's why you're sucking the teat. No, not at all.
• 31:19
  That's why. Not at all. Not at all. You can't just say, you know what,
• 31:23
  she's pretty bad. I didn't. I didn't interview Barbara Staley.
• 31:27
  She didn't do an interview with me. It was another person did it and gave us
• 31:30
  permission to run the interview.
• 31:32
  So I have never met her or spoke to her, but I liked her on Black Sunday.
• 31:36
  And yes, she's going through the motions a bit here.
• 31:39
  All right. Listen, I apologize, Barbara Steele. You are absolutely stunning in this. That's better.
• 31:47
  I've never been wow, so wowed by your robot-like mannerisms.
• 31:53
  It was incredible. Show better respect.
• 31:57
  No, if you're in a Corman film, you're hammering it out. Exactly,
• 32:01
  and that's what she's doing here. Yeah, I know. So...
• 32:07
  I love how the military shows up. You got the colonel. Yeah.
• 32:10
  And then you got the doctor.
• 32:12
  And they go, hey, you should join us.
• 32:15
  It's like, what? These two strangers who call about the piranha just saying,
• 32:19
  hey, don't drain the dam because it's going to, you know, piranha will come
• 32:23
  through. And he's like, hey, you want to work for the military?
• 32:25
  We're obviously short on recruits for Vietnam with Killer Piranha in Vietnam.
• 32:30
  Best, best, best ever data dump for why the piranha are here.
• 32:37
  And I couldn't stop laughing.
• 32:40
  The whole thing is because the operation was called Operation Razor Teeth. I know.
• 32:48
  And the whole thing was to kill off the Vietnamese water supply during the Vietnam War. Yeah.
• 32:56
  And so by contaminating the water with killer fish, they would win the war.
• 33:02
  But because Vietnam ended, they had nothing else to do with the killer fish.
• 33:07
  But then Barbara Steele, they had quips, there'd be plenty of other wars. Don't worry about it.
• 33:16
  So it's like X-Files before the X-Files, you know, with the sinister government
• 33:21
  within the government and secret experiments and stuff.
• 33:27
  Now, I will say this about the film, especially with Corman.
• 33:30
  And he knows when to bow out. It's an hour and a half long.
• 33:34
  Yes. And it is fast-paced. It keeps moving. Sometimes it's going too fast.
• 33:41
  And it does have body counts. Some of them work. It's ballsy.
• 33:44
  I mean, I understand. Yeah. But there's quite a few body counts.
• 33:49
  A little disappointed we don't see a lot of kids get it. I know it sounds creepy.
• 33:53
  I know. It sounds creepy.
• 33:55
  But now. Now you need help. Now, no, hear me out. Hear me out.
• 34:00
  So the little bastards are, they're on the tubes. Yeah.
• 34:08
  They're in the water tubes, whatever they're called. They're having a race in the water.
• 34:13
  And so here comes the fish. Here's what I don't get. The adults put their hand in.
• 34:20
  They're eating in half a second. And that's a contrivance. But the kids are
• 34:24
  sitting there getting their little bites. They're just getting little nibbles.
• 34:28
  I know. They're getting nibbled on. Everyone else is getting golfed by these,
• 34:33
  They're just getting nibbled on I want to see some kids get it Now we do see
• 34:37
  an aftermath It's supposed to be kind of like that Murray Hamilton moment Where
• 34:42
  a kid is in a blanket You don't see the kid but you know it's a kid Underneath the blanket,
• 34:47
  it's dead obviously So that's their, I guess that's the kid's moment But there
• 34:51
  are so many kids in that lake,
• 34:53
  You need more deaths Especially,
• 34:56
  It takes away from the threat of the piranha because they're meant
• 34:59
  to be so deadly they will literally kill anything moving but not kids apparently
• 35:05
  so all of the kids in this scene what they're doing the you know where demon
• 35:11
  child is like having to sort of help out and stuff and conquer or fear of the water but essentially,
• 35:18
  yeah none of the kids are harmed that we actually see on screen anyway but the
• 35:24
  moment one of the adult, you know,
• 35:27
  basically summer camp sort of teacher type.
• 35:30
  As soon as she even like dips in the water, it's nom nom nom nom nom.
• 35:37
  She's hot. Well, she's dead and hot now.
• 35:42
  Actually, her death's pretty good. Of all the deaths, hers is the best.
• 35:46
  It's probably the most emotional.
• 35:47
  Yeah, because A, you like the character. She's likable. But they have an underwater
• 35:53
  camera they use. So this was clever.
• 35:56
  So you see her being pulled down while you're underneath the water with her.
• 36:00
  So you see her body slowly fade into darkness, and her home is flying. That was kind of creepy.
• 36:06
  No, no, it's played well. You know, I think the realisation of the piranha,
• 36:12
  we hardly see the piranha, which is a wise move, obviously.
• 36:16
  Again, like the shark in Jaws, due to, you know, it probably wouldn't look the
• 36:20
  best if you linger too much with the camera on it.
• 36:23
  But I think generally, deaths and all are quite well done.
• 36:28
  You know? Yeah, they got their moments. They got their moments.
• 36:31
  I mean, you can't afford to show everyone getting eaten. That'd be too much money.
• 36:35
  Yeah, and Corman was obviously, you know, he liked to sort of work on a limited
• 36:40
  budget and save money where he could.
• 36:44
  So, when they're detained by the military, they escape.
• 36:48
  They go to escape. And Gronka goes to Maggie, goes, listen, you distract a guard.
• 36:56
  How am I supposed to distract him? just you know hit on him or something what
• 37:00
  if he's gay what if he's gay and he goes then I'll distract him,
• 37:06
  see those are the lines I got when I thought funny but again she shows him her tits,
• 37:12
  apparently they weren't her tits apparently they hired an actress just literally
• 37:17
  out of like some sort of holiday inn or something and some completely unknown
• 37:22
  never acted before and said hey do you want to be in a film it goes yeah well
• 37:25
  it's just like a very brief scene And it's basically your tits.
• 37:29
  But yeah, it's one of many contrived escape scenes that's bordering on the slapstick.
• 37:37
  Yeah, and then we meet our boy, Buck.
• 37:41
  I believe he's the mayor. That's Dick Miller. Yes. It's Aqua Day or something,
• 37:46
  whatever the fuck's going on there. Well, it's Marvon from Jaws,
• 37:48
  basically by a different name. Yeah, exactly.
• 37:50
  It's Murray Hamilton here. Yeah. Yeah.
• 37:54
  Some things get a little bad. I mean, mostly you just go with, you have fun with.
• 37:59
  Because, you know, we get, we know the source. We know the producer.
• 38:03
  We know the budget. We go with it. It does become a bit roast, I find.
• 38:08
  Yeah, let's talk about the prison escape scene. Yeah, that was really stupid. That was real.
• 38:14
  There's a difference between being self-aware, satirical, you know,
• 38:19
  having a little fun at yourself. This was convoluted.
• 38:22
  This was convoluted, and this was almost...
• 38:25
  Low and hardy. Yeah, I know that. Slapstick. It was just contrived.
• 38:33
  And I get that they had to get them out of jail, but give us something like,
• 38:36
  you know, I don't know, the cop come up to the bars and grab his keys or something.
• 38:43
  Not this thing, not this nonsense that goes on for way too long,
• 38:47
  where it's something to do with a plumber who was also a fleischer,
• 38:52
  but he then told the story of how he escaped from jail. It's just it's dragged out.
• 38:59
  Susie, the stupid kid. Demon child, yeah. His daughter.
• 39:04
  Yeah, devil child. The one who's definitely going to grow to be a serial killer. Yeah.
• 39:09
  Especially after what happens in this film. This is the best part.
• 39:12
  She's hiding underneath the dock because she doesn't want to swim.
• 39:15
  And, you know, the camp counselors make her swim, but so she decides to hide
• 39:20
  while everyone's getting eaten.
• 39:21
  So there's this brave moment where she's going to go help everybody.
• 39:24
  That's her character, right? That's her character arc, but she takes a fucking rubber boat.
• 39:30
  What the fuck can you do with that, you stupid simpleton? Especially against Parala.
• 39:37
  These people are being eaten by fucking, you don't know what it is,
• 39:40
  but it's pretty sharp. Yeah. What is a rubber raft going to do for you?
• 39:45
  Now, they kind of show that she can't lift a canoe, but canoes aren't that heavy.
• 39:52
  Okay, fucking pick it up. If not, you roll it over and you slide and you can
• 39:56
  move it. They're not exactly that head. All right, burgrills.
• 39:59
  You know what I mean? We're talking about a young kid here.
• 40:03
  Fuck off. Fucking Rambo Woods here, you know? Yeah, you.
• 40:08
  Yeah, I want to see more dead kids, but we didn't get that. It would have made
• 40:12
  sense. It actually would have made a lot more sense.
• 40:15
  All they need to do, we don't need to see them die. All I wanted to do was see them floating.
• 40:21
  Here, they make up for it. the writer makes up for it and more with an absolutely
• 40:25
  horrific scene in Alligator featuring a kid walking the plank best scene in film history,
• 40:31
  we'll get to it so oh my god here's the problem with me not having more dead kids go ahead.
• 40:43
  You've got psychological issues I hate kids but in 1975 Spielberg did it All right? Yep.
• 40:53
  We saw a kid get devoured. Hit your boy.
• 40:57
  That's right. We saw it. We appreciated it. We went, whoa.
• 41:01
  It's now 1978. You got to beat Jaws here, buddy.
• 41:06
  You could have gave me, I would have okay with three dead kids.
• 41:10
  It would have also added to the threat of the piranha.
• 41:14
  Yeah. You know. What are they doing?
• 41:18
  Are they, you know, we'll just nibble on them a little bit.
• 41:22
  We'll wait. We'll save our appetite when we get to the big fuckers.
• 41:25
  It goes against everything we've seen before with the piranha being ruthless
• 41:29
  and just basically eating everything that comes into their sight that is made of bone and flesh.
• 41:35
  It's just like, no, we'll leave the kids alone I'm surprised because it's a
• 41:39
  Corman film which are usually quite out there but yeah,
• 41:43
  it doesn't really make sense you either should have cut the kids the whole stuff
• 41:46
  with the kids out completely because there is, even, this is an hour and a half
• 41:50
  and it's a campy sort of B movie but there is a bit too much going on between, you know,
• 41:55
  the sort of summer festival with all the other townsfolk and also the kids at
• 42:00
  the summer camp it's just like, they should have just focused on one I think,
• 42:05
  Here's where I was confused.
• 42:07
  So when the military shows up, the colonel and Dr. Megner's,
• 42:10
  and they're talking about, they know about the situation. It's at hand.
• 42:15
  Yeah. They show up at the celebration place.
• 42:18
  Okay. Yep. This aqua, 10 year, whatever it is.
• 42:22
  And they end up going on this big raft boat thing.
• 42:25
  It was, by the way, there's a big sign on there saying 18 capacity only.
• 42:30
  It really emphasizes 18 capacity only. why is the colonel and Dr.
• 42:35
  Mignor going on this little fishing ride with all these civilians because there
• 42:40
  is about to be an attack it makes no sense and also why would the military want
• 42:47
  the piranha to be eating these people it makes no sense in terms of it doesn't benefit them,
• 42:54
  I thought they were trying to stop it well yes Paul I suppose they're trying
• 42:58
  to stop it but also cover it up but they don't really make any effort to stop
• 43:01
  it so it's almost like they're in danger by going on the track I know that they're it doesn't make sense,
• 43:07
  they're either really stupid or it's a plot hole so take your pick.
• 43:14
  So there's a great line where Buck his assistant Buck's on the phone or something,
• 43:21
  and he goes what the fuck you want now what do you want now what do you want now,
• 43:25
  he goes he goes listen I gotta tell you something he goes what is it now I don't
• 43:30
  want to hear about the god damn piranhas I don't want to hear about him. What's going on?
• 43:33
  The piranhas are eating the guests. Yeah.
• 43:40
  It's a Mervaughan moment where he finally realizes, yeah, maybe I should have
• 43:45
  stopped this when I had the chance. But he doesn't.
• 43:50
  I do like the fact where they, he, the way Dante shot this, and he knows he's
• 44:00
  lack of budget, so you're not going to see limbs flying all over the place and
• 44:03
  stuff like that. And, and,
• 44:05
  Quite frankly, if you look at Dante's stuff, besides the howling,
• 44:10
  even that's quite tame. Yeah.
• 44:13
  He likes to more have fun. He doesn't like, he's not gratuitous in a lot of
• 44:18
  his own stuff. No, it's not nasty.
• 44:19
  It's not nasty. Yeah, his stuff is made for families. Yeah.
• 44:23
  So I can see. But anyways, I do like the fact he puts the camera underwater.
• 44:27
  You see him from underwater getting nibbled on. You see a lot of maybe the same
• 44:31
  shots. but you see a lot of blood, a lot of splashing, a lot of screaming,
• 44:36
  a lot of close-ups in your face.
• 44:38
  Dead bodies as well, like corpses eating away and stuff. Yeah,
• 44:41
  you've got the bodies pieing out.
• 44:43
  They don't have to show you heads flying off and stuff, though I would like
• 44:47
  to. I think it's quite bloody enough, you know?
• 44:50
  It does add because in all fairness, if piranha were attacking a handful of
• 44:56
  people, it wouldn't be this fucking body parts everywhere.
• 45:00
  And a piranha, they just bite you so it makes more sense that they went this
• 45:04
  direction than seeing body parts all over the place, it just is a little inconsistent
• 45:09
  with what we got in the beginning.
• 45:10
  Well what I found distracted more was whenever it goes back to being the A team
• 45:14
  again with boats doing jumps over each other and all that sort of thing,
• 45:18
  it's a bit too much chaos going on to actually focus and sort of care about
• 45:24
  one aspect of it I mean you have these jet skiers out and then there's boats
• 45:30
  doing jumps and stuff and it's just a bit of, well, I can't speed it up.
• 45:35
  Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, what's going on here? And I mean that quite literally,
• 45:40
  it's just, it's just everything's thrown into the mix here.
• 45:45
  So, it's not a bad setup. So he's going to go, here's what I don't get,
• 45:49
  he's going to this plant, this. It just happens to be underwater as well.
• 45:53
  Yeah, it's sunk or whatever happens. So he's got to go in there and release
• 45:58
  this toxic gas to destroy the whole river?
• 46:01
  Something like that. So the river's destroyed at the end of the day, right? Yeah.
• 46:06
  Because once he releases this... Well, he wouldn't just kill the piranha.
• 46:09
  He would kill everything in the river, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's... It will.
• 46:14
  So won't they die? Won't the river... That's it? It's over? I don't know. I would assume so.
• 46:20
  I think this is more just like find a way to kill the piranha.
• 46:23
  But I'm sure the sort of Greenpeace types of the day wouldn't have been too happy.
• 46:27
  You know? Yeah. Yeah, so he takes a rub to himself. Yes. He's going to dive in the water.
• 46:35
  Go underneath. He says three minutes. If I don't last. No, I can't remember
• 46:39
  what he says. He counts the 100.
• 46:41
  Count to 100. That's the best I can do.
• 46:45
  Once you get to 100, pull me out. Yes. She'll just take the speedboat and pull him out.
• 46:50
  It's actually, I actually kind of enjoy the scene. I think it's actually kind
• 46:53
  of clever. That's quite tense.
• 46:54
  When he's got to go release the toxins or whatever, and he's being nibbled on. Yeah.
• 47:01
  And I do like this whole ending sequence. There's one funny part.
• 47:06
  I do think it's quite funny.
• 47:08
  But so she comes to 100. So anyways, he's going down there. He's investigating.
• 47:13
  And she's like 48, 49.
• 47:18
  And then we cut to he's, you know, swimming around. It's like 40 minutes.
• 47:23
  It's been enough like two minutes, right? Then we cut back to her, 63.
• 47:29
  It's like a ticking bomb, but without, with like a person during the countdown.
• 47:33
  Yeah, I'm like, wait a minute. There was more than 12 seconds here. I know.
• 47:39
  But, yeah, so he's getting eaten live, but he's able to get the thing going.
• 47:43
  And she pulls him out, and then you see his hand come up with the water,
• 47:46
  which is kind of like, actually, I do like, I did like that scene.
• 47:51
  I thought it was quite good. I think it works well.
• 47:53
  And then you cut to the, then you cut to everything's solved,
• 47:57
  and you cut to the reporter, and he goes, here at Lost River Lake.
• 48:01
  I love this line. Terror, horror, death. Film, film.
• 48:05
  Brilliant line. Brilliant line. Yeah, I was actually, I was going to mention that.
• 48:09
  So that's, and that's like a sort of, they get the sort of media,
• 48:12
  you know, the sensationalism.
• 48:13
  It's, you know, terror, horror, killer piranha. Oh, film at 11.
• 48:20
  Oh my God. I love the fact that daughter's looking for him. I don't know how
• 48:25
  the daughter got there, but whatever.
• 48:29
  She conquered her fear of swimming, so she swam down to meet him, you know.
• 48:32
  And she's, she's, she's looking for him to bring his flask of alcohol.
• 48:39
  Yeah. He's been a deadbeat. I'll go die soon. You know what I mean?
• 48:43
  Now you've got him back. Let's encourage him.
• 48:46
  It was the 70s, but, you know. It was the 70s, man.
• 48:50
  So, I almost feel like the phone got cut, like, at the end here.
• 48:54
  Because, is he alive? He is alive. Yes, he survives.
• 48:58
  He's just badly injured. Well, that's why he's given the alcohol to bring him
• 49:01
  around a bit and ease the pain, even though he's not like, you know,
• 49:06
  yeah, he's Barney from the Simpsons. Yeah.
• 49:12
  And then it ends with Dr. Manga looking at the camera. There's nothing left to fear.
• 49:18
  And that's it. Yeah. It is a bit of a weird.
• 49:21
  No, no. She says something like, it's basically setting it up,
• 49:25
  you know, saying, you know, we'll be back.
• 49:28
  Presumably maybe setting up a sequel that never happened. Although there was sort of sequence.
• 49:33
  Yes, I was going to say that. Oh, there was. Yeah, but does it follow the story
• 49:39
  directly though, does it? I can't remember.
• 49:41
  I can't remember, but that's the movie that James Cameron was directing and
• 49:44
  he got fired. Yeah, that's right. Cameron. Yeah.
• 49:47
  And he was on the set in Italy when he was filming the movie,
• 49:52
  and he had that dream about the Terminator.
• 49:55
  Right. Okay. All right.
• 49:57
  But trying to, all joking aside, with some of the quirkiness and camp of it.
• 50:02
  But again, that's what Corman is, isn't it? Yeah.
• 50:04
  And quite frankly, that's what Dante is. It's entertaining.
• 50:08
  Yeah. I mean, it's not boring film. I own it. I enjoy it. I'll put it in once in a while.
• 50:16
  It's entertaining silliness. And at the end of the day, the film does go show
• 50:20
  you the talent that Corman has raised since he's been in this business. Totally.
• 50:25
  The hundreds of filmmakers that we get today and writers and actors that have
• 50:29
  worked with him have gone on to do great stuff.
• 50:32
  This film alone, you've got two of the big success stories, especially of the
• 50:37
  80s, Rob Poutine, make-up of artists, and of course, our boy Joe Dante. Yep. Yep.
• 50:42
  So, you can't fault the film for that. You can't fault Corman. It is what it is.
• 50:49
  Corman knows when he sees talent. Yeah. I think that's what it is.
• 50:52
  It's a Jaws sort of spoof in a way.
• 50:57
  Well, it's not even about the film itself. It's really about- Giving people a chance. Yeah.
• 51:03
  I think what Corman was- Yes, it's to save a buck. He's not a multi- He's not
• 51:08
  going to give you millions of dollars to make a film.
• 51:11
  But his whole thing is, I'm going to give you this budget.
• 51:15
  This is all you get. And if you give me a hit, you're going to go somewhere.
• 51:19
  Yeah. And his directors have done that.
• 51:22
  The same thing with the director of Slumberhouse Massacre.
• 51:26
  Wasn't a big fan of the film, but she's catapulted herself and she's been very
• 51:30
  successful herself. Yep.
• 51:32
  So, you know, it's a platform.
• 51:36
  Yeah, I agree. And Spielberg kind of took that under his wing by bringing,
• 51:43
  you know, like Chris Columbus on board and stuff like that and nurturing young
• 51:48
  talent to kind of pass the baton to.
• 51:51
  I don't think we get that as much anymore.
• 51:53
  No, no. I really don't. It's too sort of corporatized and sort of, it's a different world.
• 52:01
  Whereas back then it would have been about mentoring and encouraging genuine raw authentic talent,
• 52:07
  I don't know if you get it at all these days in the film industry certainly
• 52:10
  not in the mainstream I don't know obviously I'm not in those circles but it
• 52:13
  doesn't appear to be the case so kudos we need more Roger Cormans and you know
• 52:19
  to bring I mean we just talked about this in a recent podcast that no doubt
• 52:24
  there is raw talent out there but it's not being given a chance.
• 52:28
  I think that's why I think I have a lot of appreciation for the boys behind Blair Witch.
• 52:35
  Yeah. And I have a lot of appreciation for the older Jason Blumhouse stuff.
• 52:40
  You know who doesn't? Paralumnal activity. And I have appreciation for especially.
• 52:45
  Well, one of the biggest success stories is Robert Rodriguez.
• 52:49
  Yeah. Who took a little camera and made this great little film called El Mariachi.
• 52:53
  And then you've got a couple of spinoffs later. and this kid,
• 52:56
  you know, this guy was very young when he started, I can't remember the budget,
• 53:00
  but it was incredibly low budget. And then my reaction was incredibly shot. I know.
• 53:03
  So they're still out there. Well, you know who does it? They're far and few between.
• 53:09
  You know who encourages it? Sam Raimi and Bruce Campbell.
• 53:12
  Because the last two Evil Dead films, they've intentionally,
• 53:15
  although produced them, they have brought on sort of fresh blood in terms of
• 53:19
  directors, like Fede Alvarez and Lee Cromond, the Irish director.
• 53:24
  Yeah, yeah. No, that's true. They're still there. But again.
• 53:28
  That's not the mainstream. Yeah. The mainstream don't seem to be doing it.
• 53:31
  And the funny thing is, you mentioned Campbell, you mentioned Sam Raimi.
• 53:37
  It's really the horror filmmakers that are doing this.
• 53:41
  These are the guys you want to look at for your future projects. Totally.
• 53:44
  These are the guys that are going out and doing something that catches somebody like Sam Raimi's eye.
• 53:53
  Yep. More of it. I don't know. Yeah, we'll see.
• 53:58
  That's a wrap on Piranha. Okay, so got some sad news before we start.
• 54:03
  Sad news. I found this out today.
• 54:06
  We lost a Hollywood icon. Go ahead. He was the good age of 80 years old.
• 54:11
  He passed away, I just found out, in May.
• 54:15
  He retired in his late 60s, mid-60s, I believe. No, probably early 60s,
• 54:22
  I think. He retired in 2006.
• 54:24
  He was in films, his work can be seen today in Eraser, Dr.
• 54:30
  Doolittle, Happy Gilmore, and that particular wonderful character actor,
• 54:36
  and his name was Morris the Alligator.
• 54:40
  No, not Morris. That's right, you guys hang. Our boy Morris. Not our mo.
• 54:48
  Morris who's been featured in all those films and his first film was a little
• 54:54
  film called Alligator I love this,
• 54:58
  so Morris rest in peace pal I didn't realise you passed away back in May yes
• 55:04
  of course because alligators and crocodiles can live for very long ages so,
• 55:10
  shout out to Mo thanks for traumatising me as a kid but in the best possible way Thank you.
• 55:17
  So there he is. This one's for you, buddy. Yes. Shout out to Mo.
• 55:24
  John Sells is at the helmet riding in this again. He just got hot off piranha.
• 55:29
  So what better way to change gears by just switching the killer fish to a big alligator?
• 55:37
  Yeah, this is basically inner city jaws, as the other one was jaws with tits and piranhas.
• 55:45
  Don't get any tits in this one. No, but there is an amazing line later on by Robert Forrester.
• 55:53
  We we now again talking about Dante there a second ago we got another guy from
• 56:00
  the 80s I really liked his stuff still out there still doing stuff but he was more big in the 80s,
• 56:06
  and his name was Louis Teague now Louis Teague I've always liked I like actually
• 56:10
  all of his work he did Stephen King's Cass Eye which I'm a big fan of he did
• 56:15
  Stephen King's Cujo yeah which I thought was really underrated at the time now
• 56:19
  it's all of his films have become cults yeah Jewel of the Nile.
• 56:23
  Yeah, Jewel of the Nile, the sequel to Romancing the Stone.
• 56:26
  And then he did Navy Seals, which I really enjoyed, with Charlie Sheen and Michael
• 56:30
  Biehn and Bill Paxton and the gang.
• 56:33
  All the up-and-comers were in this action film called Navy Seals. I remember.
• 56:37
  That was like his peak time there. But like all great filmmakers,
• 56:42
  and I don't want, like I mentioned John Badham in that list.
• 56:46
  Tobey Hooper, I'll mention that list. God rest his soul.
• 56:49
  You know these are guys who just kind of came and went i
• 56:52
  never understood why they went because they were always you know
• 56:55
  i suppose it was just i didn't get the brakes you know i don't know i don't
• 57:00
  know what way it works exactly but yeah sometimes there's sort of people you
• 57:05
  know sort of get a run at you know for a while for a certain amount of years
• 57:09
  and then it sort of peters out for them but yeah i suppose that's life yeah yeah.
• 57:15
  This is based on the 1960s urban legend, based on the idea that kids back in
• 57:22
  the 60s or late 50s, you get a comic book or even the 70s, and they promise you free stuff.
• 57:28
  Yeah. Like x-ray glasses and whatever. Yes, I love all that crap, yeah.
• 57:32
  Yeah. Well, there's one that was supposedly advertised free baby alligators to these comics.
• 57:38
  And then when the kids would get the package, parents would freak out and flush them down the toilet.
• 57:43
  It's called an urban legend. And that's what this film is based off of, pretty much.
• 57:48
  This film crossed, you know, there's a lot going on in this film in terms of,
• 57:52
  it's, you know, Che, you know, the writer, that's hard to pronounce, isn't it?
• 57:56
  He obviously knows his stuff. Sales. Sales, sorry, sales. Sales, my fault, yep, yep.
• 58:00
  You know, I like this sort of fun sort of stuff where it's putting stuff in, like that urban legend.
• 58:06
  Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I like, you know, well, you know, I'm surprised that
• 58:11
  in this day and age, they probably put, based on a true story. Yeah, exactly.
• 58:16
  All right, we got Robert Forrester, Robin Riker, Michael Gazzo,
• 58:21
  the Italian mob man of the 70s. Yeah.
• 58:23
  You have Dean Jagger, Perry Lang, Henry Silva.
• 58:27
  God, he's such a bad actor, but I love him.
• 58:29
  Jack Carter, Sidney Lassick, and then we got the alligator. Moe. Boy, Moe.
• 58:36
  But in the movie, he's called Ramon. Yes.
• 58:39
  So we got David Marissa, the chief, Slade, Officer Kelly, Colonel Brock,
• 58:44
  the mayor and Luke, the Jermaine guys. And Cain Hunter.
• 58:48
  Cain Hunter's in this? Yeah, he plays one of the hunters in the SWAT tunnels.
• 58:53
  So he's an extra then. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah, he's uncredited.
• 58:57
  He's uncredited, but it's his first role. I didn't know that's his first role. Right.
• 59:01
  Well, there you go. Openly seen. I loved it. Yeah. Loved it.
• 59:04
  This animal trainer getting eaten.
• 59:08
  He deserves it. I don't believe in this shit. No. It is cruel, the animals. Yeah.
• 59:12
  It is cruel. And they can sit there and go, no, I trained them.
• 59:15
  No, you doped them up. Yeah.
• 59:17
  You dope them up so they don't attack. They're too weak. So fuck you.
• 59:21
  And so when he gets his leg pretty much bitten off because his other leg gets
• 59:26
  strapped between the little timber or whatever it was, good on him. Good on the alligator.
• 59:31
  Good old Moe, even though it might not be Moe. It might have been one of his
• 59:33
  mates. That probably was Moe.
• 59:34
  That was Moe's cameo before, you know. He probably did, like,
• 59:40
  series of alligator scenes.
• 59:41
  Yeah, well, you know, he was multi-talented, Moe, you know what I mean?
• 59:44
  He played multiple roles.
• 59:47
  Multiple Moe was his nickname in the biz. He also played one of the waiters.
• 59:53
  And was a better actor. Yeah. Oh, shit.
• 59:59
  So what fucking parent would buy their kid a baby alligator?
• 1:00:03
  I mean anybody anybody could raise their hands who the fuck would buy it and
• 1:00:07
  they did feel this this I agree with I mean Urban Legends do come from something,
• 1:00:13
  the dad was right although it is confirmed later on that her mother is batshit
• 1:00:17
  crazy so you know with this the scene where she's going if I got an evil eye
• 1:00:22
  is it this one or is it this one so she is obviously batshit crazy So I suppose it makes sense.
• 1:00:29
  Yeah. So just like Maggie causing all the piranha from the last film we just
• 1:00:34
  talked about getting unleashed, Marissa is kind of the cause of this.
• 1:00:41
  Indeed. With her little pet.
• 1:00:44
  This is her alligator that's caused this.
• 1:00:48
  Ramon is our title villain. And yes, Marissa is the cause of this.
• 1:00:53
  She plays a hut putologist.
• 1:00:57
  Well, she's basically an alligator scientist. What is it?
• 1:01:02
  She's an alligator scientist.
• 1:01:08
  I'm not even going to attempt it. I'm not even going to attempt it.
• 1:01:10
  She is basically... No, I know that it's a... She's a reptile lady, scientist lady.
• 1:01:16
  It's a hut putologist.
• 1:01:18
  Okay. I rumble that. It's a study of reptiles and amphibians.
• 1:01:23
  There you go. Citizen Kane. Citizen Kane. Citizen Frame.
• 1:01:25
  You know what I mean? You get educated on here as well about things like that. Here in Shark Month.
• 1:01:33
  Even though a shark is not an amphibian or a reptile. Yeah. But.
• 1:01:38
  We like to branch, and they are water creatures, so you're welcome.
• 1:01:45
  And also, we're educating you about alligator science, so there you go.
• 1:01:49
  By the way, I've always had a fear of alligators since watching,
• 1:01:52
  I know I said earlier on, but since watching this and Live and Let Die with
• 1:01:56
  Roger Moore when I was a kid, and I am still to this day terrified.
• 1:02:02
  Alligators and crocodiles are cool. No, no, no. Well, I tell you what,
• 1:02:05
  they might look cool, But, I mean, they're basically a callback to the dinosaurs.
• 1:02:09
  One of the last remaining callbacks to the dinosaurs.
• 1:02:11
  And let's just say I would never in a million years go to the Everglades in
• 1:02:17
  Florida. They genuinely terrify me.
• 1:02:20
  You know, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near the one. Oh, I wouldn't want to
• 1:02:24
  go up to a little coochie-coochie-coo.
• 1:02:27
  Well, you'd regret it if you did. I would like to hug a bear,
• 1:02:31
  though. I wouldn't, because a bird would rip you apart.
• 1:02:34
  No, not at all. all well you hear the poo you
• 1:02:37
  know i remember as
• 1:02:40
  a kid going to belfast zoo with my sisters and my parents
• 1:02:43
  and the zookeeper telling us
• 1:02:46
  and it's always stuck with me that the most fearsome creatures
• 1:02:50
  in the zoo that would literally rip your arms and legs off and then eat you
• 1:02:53
  are the polar birds the big docile looking polar birds so yeah so basically
• 1:02:59
  it gets back to basically the motto i carry through my life do not fuck with
• 1:03:03
  nature you know be that animals or whatever you know don't mess with mother nature.
• 1:03:12
  Flush them down the toilet. Exactly. Because if they go to the sewer.
• 1:03:16
  Apparently the original script for this, which was thrown out,
• 1:03:20
  had the reason that the alligator grew to such a massive size was because it
• 1:03:25
  was set in Milwaukee, apparently, originally.
• 1:03:28
  And the reason the alligator grew to this massive size was because the local
• 1:03:33
  brewery were pumping beer into the sewer.
• 1:03:37
  So it's drunk. Yeah, it's an alcoholic over bloated Morris.
• 1:03:44
  Yeah, so we introduce our boy, David, Detective David. Yeah.
• 1:03:50
  He's at the sanitation plant where he sees an arm. He's just holding it.
• 1:03:53
  Well, what's this? That's an arm. And then the next scene, they find a leg.
• 1:03:58
  And then the head of the sanitation plant goes, well, I can sell this place.
• 1:04:03
  This place could be for spare parts.
• 1:04:04
  Yeah, I know. But I would say the first half of this film, before it really
• 1:04:08
  goes off the rails, Whenever the alligator jumps up through the,
• 1:04:11
  you know, under the street, it's actually quite gritty.
• 1:04:14
  So it is, you know, and he's like, obviously a sort of tough cop, Chicago cop.
• 1:04:19
  And it's, it's played quite gritty. You know, it's about a big alligator ultimately,
• 1:04:25
  you know, running about killing people. But generally the stuff with him and,
• 1:04:28
  you know, losing his partner and stuff, then he loses the dipshit new partner and stuff.
• 1:04:32
  It's played in a generally quite gritty manner, which I liked.
• 1:04:37
  Uh yeah but some of that green manner could be taken away with some pretty stupid
• 1:04:43
  scene well no it goes it goes off the rails so it does now don't get me wrong
• 1:04:47
  i do think the story about the,
• 1:04:51
  The size of the gator is quite, on how he puts the pieces together.
• 1:04:55
  He goes to adopt a puppy at the pet shop.
• 1:04:58
  The owner there, it's kind of a coincidence, is the same guy that's giving the medical department.
• 1:05:06
  Yeah, there's a lot of coincidences here.
• 1:05:08
  Yeah. Give him the medical department puppies so they can fucking dissect him. Yeah.
• 1:05:13
  There's a fucking line that that fucking prick gives to David.
• 1:05:17
  Why are they parking? Well, we cut their larynx. it's quite
• 1:05:20
  dark so they don't bark it's quite dark and i don't like i
• 1:05:23
  was pissed off at me because this this shit does happen yeah they wouldn't know
• 1:05:27
  this if they don't they wouldn't know this if this doesn't happen yeah and and
• 1:05:32
  with the creepy pet shop guy dumping the bodies and all into the sewer it's
• 1:05:37
  quite dark yes yeah yeah so you'll find out the gator what's happening.
• 1:05:43
  Is the pet shop guy gives it to a tester.
• 1:05:47
  The tester then gives the dead animals back to the pet guy and he dumps them
• 1:05:52
  in the sewer. To get rid of the evidence.
• 1:05:53
  But because they're so doped up on drugs and whatever that they're testing on
• 1:05:59
  them, the alligator's been eating them. Yes.
• 1:06:02
  And that's why the alligator's of size. It's actually kind of a corner story.
• 1:06:06
  Yeah, I don't know. I mean, a lot of it is copy and paste from Piranha,
• 1:06:09
  which is copy and paste from Jaws.
• 1:06:10
  But yeah essentially instead of the
• 1:06:13
  military it's the the evil sort
• 1:06:16
  of animal experimentation scientists but i
• 1:06:19
  also got the suggestion that not only that there they were also there
• 1:06:22
  was they were sort of pumping chemicals into the
• 1:06:25
  sewers as well so that was sort of contributing to
• 1:06:28
  the size of the alligator also uh i
• 1:06:31
  don't think they were it's also said later on that an
• 1:06:34
  alligator wouldn't survive in the sewers because it
• 1:06:37
  would be starved with sunlight and stuff so it's mutated basically in a nutshell
• 1:06:41
  yeah but i don't think the pollution thing happened i think it was just the
• 1:06:46
  animals right okay the whole thing is anti animal testing and yes fucking mother
• 1:06:52
  nature and all that you know yeah like the previous piranha.
• 1:06:55
  But, well, Prawn is just laughable. Good laughable goo. This has got kind of
• 1:07:00
  a side where you kind of get angry.
• 1:07:02
  Like, why the fuck do we not have to see that fucking scientist guy get it? Did we see him get it?
• 1:07:07
  The wedding, I think a lot of them get it. You know, the wedding party later
• 1:07:09
  on, whenever it's completely batshit crazy.
• 1:07:12
  I don't think he actually, his dad gets it anyway. You know,
• 1:07:14
  who's his boss. You had Slade. As far as father-in-law. Slade. Yeah. Yeah, Slade.
• 1:07:19
  But we'll get to the wedding scene. Fucking awesome. Yeah. Brilliant, like.
• 1:07:24
  Yeah. Yeah, and then when he's back at the sanitation, you got the leg,
• 1:07:30
  they got the arm, and then they see he happens to be there.
• 1:07:33
  They take off that T-shirt, the shirt that the pet sub owner has,
• 1:07:38
  that obnoxious Hawaiian shirt. Yeah.
• 1:07:40
  So they know that he's like, hmm, this is interesting, and that's how he leads
• 1:07:44
  him to the medical facility, which is way fucking convenient. I know.
• 1:07:49
  I know there's a lot of real sort of coincidences and conveniences here.
• 1:07:52
  I would say that what adds to the grittiness is basically Robert Forrester,
• 1:07:56
  who is really good in those types of roles, playing the sort of long-suffering
• 1:08:01
  type character who, you know,
• 1:08:04
  he's lost his partner and that sort of thing, or he's sort of beaten down.
• 1:08:09
  Forrester adds that sort of, I know it was released in sort of 1980,
• 1:08:13
  but he adds that sort of 70s grittiness.
• 1:08:16
  Well, you're on the cusp there from the transition between 70s grittiness and
• 1:08:23
  80s cheese. And it's blanched both?
• 1:08:25
  Yeah, so that's what you're getting. It's kind of like when you're...
• 1:08:31
  You know, when 70s rock was kind of fading into a new wave. Yeah.
• 1:08:38
  You know, but I do like the fact when there's a throwaway scene,
• 1:08:44
  I thought it was a throwaway scene, but it's not where,
• 1:08:47
  that's the second viewing, where he is at the sanitation plant and they found
• 1:08:53
  the dog there and he sees the owner of the dog.
• 1:08:58
  Oh, my dog was never this big, but this, it looks like my dog.
• 1:09:02
  It's got to be my dog, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:09:04
  This, you know, and then she shows David the shirt of what the dog used to wear when it was cold.
• 1:09:11
  And the dog would not fit into that shirt. It's like four times the size now. Yeah.
• 1:09:16
  So that goes to show you the mutation of what was happening down there.
• 1:09:21
  Yeah. The Santa skies are basically messing with nature, as was said.
• 1:09:25
  We meet poor Officer Kelly. We know he's fucked. Yeah.
• 1:09:29
  And what about the scene where we're sort of introduced to him,
• 1:09:32
  where it comes into play later on, where the madman comes into the cop shop.
• 1:09:37
  I remember watching this. With a bomb.
• 1:09:40
  But it's not a bomb. This is the fucking stupidest scene ever.
• 1:09:43
  But it's setting up the finale.
• 1:09:46
  We'll come back to it, but when it comes back into play, it's even worse.
• 1:09:51
  It's just stupidest scene. You know who I absolutely love?
• 1:09:55
  The police chief. You know, he sounds as if he smokes about,
• 1:09:58
  I don't know, 80 fegs an hour. So he does.
• 1:10:01
  Yeah. He's a sort of stereotypical sort of long-suffering. That's Gazzo, man.
• 1:10:07
  That guy, that guy, Vincent Gazzo, whatever his name was, character actor. Yeah.
• 1:10:11
  He's been, I think he's in All the Godfathers. Yeah.
• 1:10:15
  But Michael Gazzo. Yeah. He's got that raspy voice.
• 1:10:19
  Yeah. He's the stereotypical, you know, long-suffering police chief,
• 1:10:23
  you know, who's tortured by, you know, this maverick underneath him who doesn't play by the rules.
• 1:10:29
  He's just great at...
• 1:10:31
  When he takes poor Officer Kelly with him down for sewers, there's some good banter there.
• 1:10:38
  Yeah. This is what I'm saying, where sales, we said this with Piranha,
• 1:10:42
  was you're finding your craft a bit in your first screenplay.
• 1:10:48
  Then you kind of take that script and you make it alligator.
• 1:10:51
  But there's some more clever writing in that one.
• 1:10:54
  It just shows the level of maturity his writing got to Oscar Calibur writing.
• 1:10:58
  And so there's a nice scene where he's just talking to Kelly and Kelly's a very lovable character.
• 1:11:04
  He's actually a nice character. Both of them play it well.
• 1:11:07
  So they do the actor who plays Kelly and Forrester.
• 1:11:11
  And David asked Kelly, why'd you volunteer to do this? And he goes,
• 1:11:16
  I don't fall for that locker room crap. Yeah.
• 1:11:18
  Which I like because he's kind of blacklisted in the precinct he's in because
• 1:11:22
  his partner died with his gun. That's right.
• 1:11:25
  And so there's always some doubt about who
• 1:11:28
  he is as a cop and so no
• 1:11:31
  one really wants to work with him but this guy says I don't listen to that crap
• 1:11:34
  and I kind of like that about him it was just one line but the line humanizes
• 1:11:38
  him and it makes you feel sorry for him for what's about to happen exactly whenever
• 1:11:42
  it does happen it's yeah he's naive and young but he's also kind of brave and likable as well,
• 1:11:49
  there's a my favorite shot in the film is in this scene.
• 1:11:54
  And it's wonderfully handled. We talked about this with Joe Dante and Piranha
• 1:11:59
  just a second ago there, about how it's not necessarily about the entire film.
• 1:12:05
  It's Louis Teague, you know, fighting his footing. Well, I think he was still,
• 1:12:09
  I think he was a little more of a veteran at this point.
• 1:12:12
  But they show that there's talent behind the lens. And there's something there.
• 1:12:18
  There's a shot. It's wonderful.
• 1:12:20
  And I didn't see it coming. I forgot it was in it. when they take off the sewer
• 1:12:24
  map and David puts the flashlight onto the map so they can see it and right
• 1:12:30
  in the corner you see the face of the alligator.
• 1:12:32
  And there's a couple of times as well you just see the eye of the alligator
• 1:12:35
  which is greatly effective.
• 1:12:37
  Yeah, I don't mind that but this shot is the first shot of his whole mouth.
• 1:12:42
  And you see his head sway and you just don't see it. It's really nice.
• 1:12:49
  And it's genuinely scary.
• 1:12:51
  It's creepy. the Ramon who kept breaking down there's a lot of jaw story to this one,
• 1:12:59
  where he couldn't show much of the alligator I think what they do stands up
• 1:13:05
  very well even to this day yeah gators probably wouldn't be that hard to do because they're so.
• 1:13:13
  And they what well you're not out in the ocean you know what I mean it's not
• 1:13:18
  a fish so it would be easier to manage in that respect Yeah,
• 1:13:22
  well, but even their jaws don't have much movement. The only one up and down.
• 1:13:26
  A gator almost looks mechanical. Yes, I know what you mean. Yeah.
• 1:13:32
  And obviously, there's a bit of sort of shooting with real alligators as well
• 1:13:36
  and stuff. So that's a good mix.
• 1:13:38
  That is our boy. I know that. The man, Mo. Yeah.
• 1:13:44
  So when Kelly gets it, it's an effective low,
• 1:13:47
  Shane, where Dave is trying to get the sewer lit open and there's
• 1:13:52
  nothing he can do at this point and he sees him getting dragged off i would
• 1:13:57
  have liked to have seen his body plummet it's not terrible more core like yeah
• 1:14:02
  i'd like to see him being pulled away and him struggling we don't have to see
• 1:14:06
  him getting eaten but as the gators,
• 1:14:10
  walking away we can see him dragging uh kelly away with him and he's screaming
• 1:14:15
  i think that That would have been effective.
• 1:14:17
  I know what you're saying, but I think it was maybe a bit too much too soon.
• 1:14:20
  Because we do get that later on, especially at the wedding party,
• 1:14:23
  which is bonkers and I love it.
• 1:14:25
  Yeah, but it's more laughable where I thought this scene could have been played
• 1:14:29
  more dead straight. Yeah, well, yeah.
• 1:14:31
  Or maybe just like had him sort of screaming and see more of him being dragged
• 1:14:35
  away by the alligator in its mouth.
• 1:14:39
  Is it me or is Marissa a very fucking unlikable character? She's annoying.
• 1:14:44
  Yeah, I can't stand her. I wouldn't go that far. I mean, it's not that distracting.
• 1:14:50
  Best actress in the world? No, but I mean, she's a bit of a plot device.
• 1:14:57
  Also, this is the biggest coincidence of all, that it just happens to be her
• 1:15:03
  baby alligator that's in it, in the sewer, that's being mutated.
• 1:15:07
  She never even finds out she's never told it it's Ramon does she ever find out?
• 1:15:14
  She doesn't find out I was paying attention closely to that because I was waiting
• 1:15:18
  on some I actually thought the mother was going to give it away in some way
• 1:15:22
  you know the crazy mother but how would you know?
• 1:15:25
  Well exactly but we knew as the audience members you know what had been a good scene?
• 1:15:30
  Is Marissa comes eye to eye with the gator and recognizes it and the gator has a little tear.
• 1:15:39
  After the wedding party scene I'd have bought anything like that,
• 1:15:45
  This movie goes from mysteries, crime thriller, to fucking batshit crazy. Totally.
• 1:15:53
  And I love that about it. And I think it's basically a film of two halves.
• 1:15:58
  The first half is essentially gritty sort of murder mystery.
• 1:16:03
  It's basically a serial killer in inner city Chicago that happens to be an alligator.
• 1:16:10
  And then around the halfway mark, when the alligator escapes from the sewer,
• 1:16:13
  it just goes into pure over the top B movie territory I think it's great,
• 1:16:20
  so you've got Kemp who's the reporter guy yeah you know he's fucked but I mean
• 1:16:29
  talk about a blatant rip off my favorite,
• 1:16:33
  scene in Jaws 2 is where is where Chief Brody finds out it's a shark through
• 1:16:41
  the camera that was used by one of the divers when it was eaten.
• 1:16:46
  Well, he gets eaten in the sewers with one of the cameras.
• 1:16:49
  And that's how they find out that this is a gator.
• 1:16:52
  It was so funny because they bring, Marissa doesn't believe it's a gator.
• 1:16:55
  That's impossible. It can't be a gator. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:16:58
  And so they bring her a picture. What is that? Oh, that's a gator.
• 1:17:03
  All like Merv Vaughn and the gang in Joe's 2 who said, what is that, seaweed?
• 1:17:09
  At least they knew what it was. You know, so you couldn't really argue.
• 1:17:13
  It's big, massive jaws, you know?
• 1:17:17
  So now it's time to bring SWAT in. Yep. So the SWAT go down the sewers,
• 1:17:22
  and I kind of like the idea of what they're trying to do is push the gator out of the sewers,
• 1:17:28
  and then when the gator comes out, they all shoot it, whatever they're going to do. Yep.
• 1:17:33
  But it doesn't come to that. It ends up just being... It hides, basically.
• 1:17:37
  Yeah. And...
• 1:17:40
  And that's it. Yeah. And here's what I like. I like the chief.
• 1:17:44
  I did, because it was not that the... It was sort of his hand. Face.
• 1:17:49
  Yeah, but that... I like the chief because he wasn't this over the top.
• 1:17:54
  I hate you. You kill the partner, blah, blah, blah. He had his back.
• 1:17:57
  He was torn between the two sides. It was the myrrh, again, there's a myrrh Vaughn I like in here.
• 1:18:04
  But it was the myrrh and the... Slade. Yes, Slade, who were pulling the strings.
• 1:18:09
  So he was torn between the cop, David Madison, and also the ones pulling the strings, i.e.
• 1:18:15
  The myrrh and Slade. It was corruption.
• 1:18:19
  Yeah, I know. Oh my God.
• 1:18:23
  This is where it's... I love this scene. This is where... Coming up.
• 1:18:26
  What? I love this scene coming up where the alligator escapes and jumps out
• 1:18:30
  of the pavement. It's brilliant.
• 1:18:33
  It comes. It's so stop motion meets real shot of a real alligator to mechanical.
• 1:18:41
  It looks so cheesy. I fucking bought it. I love it.
• 1:18:45
  I mean, you couldn't, you couldn't have this like a really cool,
• 1:18:48
  you probably get away with it today. Like movie crawl is really good. Yeah.
• 1:18:51
  That's really used as maybe some CGI, but you know what? You don't need it. You still go with it.
• 1:18:56
  Well, here's the thing. Whenever I had seen this since I was a kid, I watched it on TV.
• 1:19:01
  When it traumatized me, I haven't seen it since. So there was parts of it I
• 1:19:05
  couldn't remember But see, as soon as this started happening It all came back
• 1:19:09
  to me And then later on with the wedding scene It was just like.
• 1:19:14
  Superb,
• 1:19:16
  So when the kids are playing baseball on the street and the thing pops up and
• 1:19:20
  they're still standing there, I'll be fucking gone. Yeah.
• 1:19:23
  And then there's a kid. And then the cop. There's a kid who's obviously like
• 1:19:26
  a posh little sort of stage kid, but he's pretending to be streetwise and stuff.
• 1:19:30
  And it's so ropey, but again, fun. Oh my God, is that the kid who's going to
• 1:19:35
  help? So he runs up to his mom's, runs up to his house and he grabs a knife. Yes, yes, him.
• 1:19:42
  He grabs a knife and he runs down like he's going to tackle the fucking gator.
• 1:19:45
  He's obviously a sort of poise stage kid that they've hired oh by the way you
• 1:19:50
  have to pretend you're from the street and you're sort of working class and
• 1:19:53
  it doesn't work but it does work in other ways you know,
• 1:19:57
  yeah it's so bad it's good yeah exactly and then he's and then the cop car he
• 1:20:02
  tries to now this is an A team or chips or chips is perfect he veers away from
• 1:20:08
  the kid so the cop just a fucking car just flies in the air and it explodes
• 1:20:12
  you know there's random explosions of cars whenever that just like clip another
• 1:20:16
  car? It's just like, boom.
• 1:20:18
  And then he gets out of the car and the alligator, this fat bastard is the slowest
• 1:20:22
  fucking gator in the world. He's like, no.
• 1:20:28
  And he's like, well, get up, you dumbass. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:20:32
  Instead of getting up and running or maybe he was injured, instead of at least
• 1:20:35
  crawling away, he's like, no.
• 1:20:38
  And by that time, Morris has caught up with him walking about,
• 1:20:43
  I don't know, one mile an hour.
• 1:20:45
  And eat some bite his leg off. Yeah.
• 1:20:49
  Yeah. And then the big game hunter is in town.
• 1:20:53
  Well, no, that's the funny part. You got the game hunter, Henry Silva,
• 1:20:57
  who, he's the best hammy villain ever.
• 1:21:01
  And he even knows he looks like a villain. Yeah.
• 1:21:05
  He looks like he's dressed like a big game hunter and everything.
• 1:21:08
  The whole safari gear. He's wearing safari gear in inner city Chicago. Yeah.
• 1:21:15
  So he, but there's so funny.
• 1:21:19
  It's just like the next scene is all those militaries around.
• 1:21:23
  Yeah. And we, the last thing we see of the gator, it sounds like la,
• 1:21:27
  la, la, going down the street.
• 1:21:29
  They can't find him? Yeah, exactly.
• 1:21:32
  And there's a great scene where the chief is going off now at this point. She's all pissed off.
• 1:21:37
  And Marissa goes, it needs water. It's going to find water. And he goes,
• 1:21:41
  Jesus, man, this whole city is full of water.
• 1:21:44
  It could be anywhere. It could be right over there in that lake.
• 1:21:47
  Well, guess what? Yep. Yep. Yeah.
• 1:21:52
  And then there's an absolutely brutal, we'll sort of reference early,
• 1:21:55
  an absolutely brutal random scene where a random kid gets it after being forced
• 1:22:00
  to walk the plank while playing pirates with his mates or his brothers or something.
• 1:22:04
  Yeah, that's not there yet. Yeah.
• 1:22:06
  But we'll jump into that one in a second. But.
• 1:22:11
  Yeah, so he kind of gets fired. He does, yeah.
• 1:22:15
  And it's so funny because I was always wondering, what was the point of terrible bomb threat scene?
• 1:22:23
  And as you get fired, you usually, give me your badge, give me a gun.
• 1:22:27
  Chief walks up to him, you're fired. Okay.
• 1:22:29
  So he goes to his locker, cleans it out. Then he goes to a room called the evidence
• 1:22:34
  room. At the stage of everything? Opens it up. It's like a closet.
• 1:22:37
  It's almost like a fucking flea market sale. Everything's labeled dynamite. Bomb.
• 1:22:44
  Nice. Radio. And there's no cages. Nobody to check this thing stuff out.
• 1:22:49
  He just goes and grabs his bag and fills it up with the bomb.
• 1:22:52
  Also, with him getting sacked, would he not have been escorted off out of the
• 1:22:57
  police station? You know?
• 1:22:59
  I mean, even... Probably not. Even... What? And sort of like jobs and,
• 1:23:02
  I don't know, call centers or whatever. And if you get the sack,
• 1:23:04
  you get escorted off the premises. You know?
• 1:23:07
  I would imagine a police station would definitely do the same thing.
• 1:23:10
  But anyway, it doesn't matter.
• 1:23:12
  He gets the stuff that he needs in the finale. You would have to turn in your
• 1:23:16
  badge and gun. You can't leave without doing that. And that's why I was shocked
• 1:23:19
  they didn't really say that.
• 1:23:20
  Right. That's the key line. They do say you have to hand in your badge, yeah.
• 1:23:26
  But no, they let him go. Yeah. Yeah. I love the scene where Brock is walking
• 1:23:33
  down the alleyway with the chief.
• 1:23:36
  And he goes, oh my God, this is the biggest I've ever seen. And the team's like,
• 1:23:42
  what? Look at the size of that stool sample.
• 1:23:46
  That's right. Yeah. It's basically a massive alligator shit.
• 1:23:51
  So Marissa and David are lovers now. Yep. Yep. Just randomly.
• 1:23:55
  Yeah. They just get together and shag.
• 1:23:58
  And then the fallout. And this is, in a way, this is like,
• 1:24:03
  this version is on romantic comedy sort of tropes, you know,
• 1:24:07
  because there's the big fallout and they get back together again later on,
• 1:24:10
  you know, whenever he goes into your bedroom in her mother's house and says,
• 1:24:13
  what's not to love about you?
• 1:24:14
  What's the effect of? You're a doctor. You know everything about alligators.
• 1:24:18
  Plus you got a great set of tits.
• 1:24:20
  I was like, what? You charmer. Is that what he said? Yeah.
• 1:24:24
  I don't even remember that. Yeah. Whenever he goes into her bedroom in the mother's house.
• 1:24:30
  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:24:33
  Oh my god but it is a bit of a worldwide romance I mean they even have the sort
• 1:24:37
  of split up the break up and then they get back together again all in the space of about 5 minutes.
• 1:24:43
  Now there are 2 scenes,
• 1:24:49
  that make that pretty much make this the best reptilian creature feature ever produced,
• 1:24:57
  and that is as you mentioned 3 dipshits one's tied up the kids it must be Halloween
• 1:25:04
  or something I don't know what the fuck they're playing pirate I don't know
• 1:25:07
  but they're making the kid walk the plank and the kid sees the fucking alligator in the water,
• 1:25:12
  the other kids don't and they stop pushing him in he's like fuck your stuff
• 1:25:17
  wait a minute and they actually do it and they do it and he gets it thank you
• 1:25:21
  yeah I mean this fellow yeah they've learned their lessons from Piranha.
• 1:25:28
  Oh my god it's quite it's quite brutal You know, perfect.
• 1:25:32
  Yeah, I would like to have seen his face get crushed, but I can't have everything, little fucker.
• 1:25:39
  I do like when Brock hires three bastards. Hey, want to go home for a gator?
• 1:25:43
  Yeah. I'll give you $10 per day. Yeah.
• 1:25:48
  And the one guy goes, I want $20. Yeah, he's hustling, basically.
• 1:25:53
  Yeah. But then he gets it big time.
• 1:25:56
  I love it where they walk down the alley. two of them decide not to do it.
• 1:26:00
  The other one goes with him and then he sees the gator. He just fucking runs. Yep.
• 1:26:04
  But to his you know, gotta give him credit because he does go back to try to
• 1:26:09
  save him with the gun, but there's no point. Yeah.
• 1:26:11
  And Brock was always going to get it. You know. And I do like when Brock is
• 1:26:16
  actually in the mouth. Yeah.
• 1:26:18
  And he's being just swallowed. Brock is basically Quint from Jaws,
• 1:26:22
  but a camping B-movie version of him.
• 1:26:25
  Not really bad. He's terrible. It's terrible.
• 1:26:28
  He's even got the sort of smarmy raised eyebrow, you know, whatever earlier
• 1:26:32
  he's flirting with the reporter and stuff.
• 1:26:34
  And he's talking about a really ropey scene where he's talking about alligator
• 1:26:38
  mating sounds and he's going, or some nonsense like that. It's just like, what?
• 1:26:45
  How the hell both actors sit there looking at each other, taking this seriously?
• 1:26:48
  The word, do you tell that the word, you know, it's obviously very tongue in cheek.
• 1:26:55
  Now we get, what?
• 1:26:57
  The second best scene for an alligator horror film.
• 1:27:03
  And that is the fucking Bastard Crazy Wedding. Love it. Absolutely love it.
• 1:27:08
  So too. I love when the maid just gives gold. And then you can.
• 1:27:13
  And then my favorite is. No prisoners. What's the slow moment?
• 1:27:16
  What's the people just. No.
• 1:27:19
  So. Yeah. For the 80s. You got Slade. Yep. Who locks himself in the car.
• 1:27:24
  And the driver doesn't move at all. He's like, why don't you just drive away
• 1:27:28
  now? Exactly, put your foot on the pedals, dickhead.
• 1:27:30
  He waits for the mayor to show up. And the alligator!
• 1:27:35
  He was banging on that door for five minutes. He couldn't open it and just go,
• 1:27:38
  come on in, let's go. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:27:40
  Well, I was to set him up as just a complete bastard, you know.
• 1:27:44
  And then the gator grabs him, and instead of eating him, he's just banging his
• 1:27:48
  body to the car. He's using him to basically get into the car.
• 1:27:51
  But why didn't Slade just open the door at the other side and run away?
• 1:27:55
  But why don't they just run away or drive away 10 minutes before you know but
• 1:28:02
  here you know it's still pretty fun I mean it's like it crushes them on top oh yeah,
• 1:28:09
  I love the wedding party scene brilliant.
• 1:28:14
  How did Marissa and David know they were there it was there coincidence and
• 1:28:19
  why would they and again yes that it was some bullshit one fixed line where
• 1:28:24
  that's where it would be heading to.
• 1:28:26
  Something to do with following the river or something. We're basically tracking where it would go next.
• 1:28:30
  And just by complete chance this also happened to be the same place where the
• 1:28:35
  wedding party was going on with all of the other main characters.
• 1:28:38
  So there are a lot of plot conveniences to say the least here.
• 1:28:43
  But that's okay. It's alligator.
• 1:28:48
  So their plan is to poison it. Kind of like with the Piranha.
• 1:28:52
  Poison or knockly or do something. I'll blow it up.
• 1:28:57
  And then blow it up. Yeah. And so he puts the gas mask on and he's got a minute
• 1:29:04
  and a half, whatever, to get out of there.
• 1:29:06
  And the gas is slowing down the gator a bit.
• 1:29:10
  I do like the scene where he's trying to get out of the sewer and the car pulls up on top of it. Yeah.
• 1:29:15
  And I do like Marissa's supposed to meet him there. So that was planned.
• 1:29:19
  And she's trying to get the dumb bitch to move, move, move your car.
• 1:29:22
  It is actually quite. It's tense. It's actually, it actually, it's a lot like Piranha.
• 1:29:27
  Yeah. Where he's underneath the water, he's being nibbled on, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:29:31
  So it's, yep, the ticking bomb. And the explosion, which is pretty much most
• 1:29:35
  of his budget, is quite well handled.
• 1:29:38
  And I do like the gator effect when they blow it up. Yep.
• 1:29:42
  And especially, I love how they ramp up the tension with the old woman in the
• 1:29:46
  car who gives actually a natural reaction to some crazed person jumping into
• 1:29:50
  your car and say you have to move because there's a bomb and an alligator underneath.
• 1:29:53
  You go, what are you talking about? You know, get out of my car you crazy bastard so,
• 1:30:00
  that ramps up the tension and it works very very well yeah it does the movie's
• 1:30:06
  got flashes of a lot of good stuff it's got a lot of piss poor stuff but the
• 1:30:11
  piss poor stuff is more just I think it knows what it is it's deliberate.
• 1:30:17
  It's all deliberate yeah totally I mean it's a creature feature yes I would
• 1:30:23
  say it is I love this film and And I find it hugely entertaining.
• 1:30:28
  It's a good one. It is. What do you think is better, Piranha or Alligator?
• 1:30:33
  What's that, sorry? What do you think is better? Alligator. Piranha or Alligator? Alligator.
• 1:30:38
  Yeah, I prefer Alligator. But I still like Piranha on its own terms as well.
• 1:30:43
  But for me, just maybe a wee bit of nostalgia there.
• 1:30:46
  But I think generally it's pure, like no holds barred enjoyment.
• 1:30:54
  I like them both. on them both, but I'd probably pick, if I had to choose, probably be Alligator.
• 1:30:59
  Just because the budget's a little up there. You've got fucking some,
• 1:31:04
  I mean, The Chiefs, you've got some great character actors in here. Yeah.
• 1:31:08
  And it does help that you got Robert Forrester, who kind of more,
• 1:31:12
  he's more of the serious actor in it.
• 1:31:15
  It helps too that he's in one of my favorite underrated Tarantino films,
• 1:31:20
  which is Jackie Brown. Oh, I love Jackie Brown.
• 1:31:22
  And he won an Oscar for that. Best supporting actor.
• 1:31:27
  Did he end up getting it, or was he just nominated? Maybe he was just nominated.
• 1:31:30
  I know he was at least nominated.
• 1:31:32
  And then in more recent years, before he passed, he was in Twin Peaks,
• 1:31:37
  you know, the rebooted 2017 series of Twin Peaks. That's too bad to go out like that.
• 1:31:43
  You haven't even seen the new Twin Peaks. I don't even plan on it. Well, you should.
• 1:31:48
  Let's not ruin it with good creature feature fun.
• 1:31:52
  That shit. You haven't seen it? You can't comment. It's, come on,
• 1:31:57
  don't. Don't even start with me.
• 1:31:59
  That fire walk with me was a terrible experience. Well, it's not meant to be pleasant.
• 1:32:03
  But anyway, Alligator's great.
• 1:32:07
  Yeah, Alligator's good fun. Creature feature. I think people who listen to this
• 1:32:12
  podcast might not know it.
• 1:32:14
  They know Piranha. It's free on Amazon. Piranha's pretty popular, actually.
• 1:32:17
  But you can get Alligator. It's
• 1:32:19
  been all remastered, re-released and everything on 4K, like I mentioned.
• 1:32:23
  Check it out. Give it a watch. if you haven't seen it. It's free also on Amazon
• 1:32:26
  and Piranha is 99p on Amazon.
• 1:32:30
  So that's how I watch them. There's loads of really good stuff that's free on Amazon.
• 1:32:35
  You know, old sort of B-movies from the 70s and 80s and stuff,
• 1:32:38
  which I would watch a lot of.
• 1:32:40
  Yeah. Well, we don't have to mention them because they're not going to pay us, so fuck them.
• 1:32:43
  No, no, but I'm just saying, I'm saying for the benefit of listeners getting
• 1:32:46
  something for free, not for Amazon themselves.
• 1:32:49
  I have no time for business. Yeah, check it out. I don't think a lot of people know about Alligator.
• 1:32:54
  They probably do. Maybe I'm just, but, uh, there you go.
• 1:32:58
  Wow. Double feature creature. Wow.
• 1:33:01
  An hour and a half talking about these two films. They deserve it. Wow.
• 1:33:08
  There you go. Roger Corman, Joe Dante, Louis Teague, John Sayles,
• 1:33:14
  the creative minds behind Perron and Alligator. Good time. Check them out.
• 1:33:18
  Guys, give us a shout. If you want to reach out to us, it's citizenframe underscore
• 1:33:21
  podcast on Instagram and, of course, Facebook. Oh.
• 1:33:26
  So remember when I fucked up Yale? Yes. You know, Yale was way off.
• 1:33:32
  The fuck? Indiana. I got confused because Indiana has two big 10 colleges,
• 1:33:37
  which is Notre Dame, the Irish, you know?
• 1:33:41
  Right. And they've got Purdue. There you go.
• 1:33:44
  So I was technically, I was wrong, but I knew they had some kind of prestigious schools in there.
• 1:33:50
  Right. So you obviously demonstrate onto the internet afterwards and looked them up? Yep.
• 1:33:56
  Okay, okay. It's like, man, I look like an ass. Right. Okay.
• 1:34:01
  Yeah. No more phone calls from me anymore. They're going to call me now.
• 1:34:05
  Maybe now Notre Dame will call me. Your honorary doctorate has been canceled. Yeah.
• 1:34:09
  Yeah, but maybe Notre Dame now will call me now. I'm Indiana. Hmm.
• 1:34:13
  I think it's the Hoosier State. I don't know. Yeah. You know the movie,
• 1:34:18
  The Hoosiers? Gene Hackman? Yeah.
• 1:34:21
  From the basketball team? Yes, but I haven't seen it. And Dennis Hopper got
• 1:34:25
  the Oscar nod? I haven't seen it.
• 1:34:27
  Oh. That's Indiana, the Indiana Hoosiers. Right.
• 1:34:31
  Yes. Okay. I'm learning about the great state of Indiana for our new listener.
• 1:34:35
  That was pretty nice of me pretty nice of me this is you know he'll go the extra
• 1:34:40
  mile so he will and be going to dip shit out of himself.
• 1:34:44
  Yeah I just wanted to make sure I clarified that for you I don't think they've downloaded since,
• 1:34:50
  they probably didn't even listen to the one where you made the mistake I don't
• 1:34:54
  know God we suck I mean this is shark month and we're not even covering sharks,
• 1:35:01
  yeah ask me to continue shark month With our sharks.
• 1:35:08
  Where I, quite frankly, think it's an underrated gem.
• 1:35:12
  Well, I don't want to say yet because Dangerous Animals is coming on Video On Demand this week.
• 1:35:20
  And I never got to see the theater and didn't get a big theater release,
• 1:35:23
  unfortunately. And it's getting rave reviews, but the serial killer uses sharks.
• 1:35:28
  So I want that to be next. But if we can't get on Video On Demand yet,
• 1:35:33
  we'll probably go to Deep Blue Sea. Okay.
• 1:35:35
  There we go and then we got what else do we have after Deep Blue Sea Dangerous
• 1:35:40
  Animals and they have one more shark one what was it I can't remember I don't
• 1:35:44
  know I don't know okay we'll figure it out we'll work something out,
• 1:35:50
  alright guys this has been long as hell I'm out of here gonna get some dinner
• 1:35:54
  and watch a movie cause I have no life alright guys take care of yourselves see ya.
• 1:36:03
  Music.