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Rethinking HR with Mindy Honcoop: Building Healthy Workplace Ecosystems · Business Roundtable

• 0:31
  Speaker 1: All right, welcome back to the Business round Table podcast.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I am your host, David Carr Founders Doing your Business,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: where you bring people together to accomplish great things. And
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: this week we have an amazing new guests, Mini Hankoop.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: We're super happily to have you here, Hr Innovator Advisor, Uh,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: just an all around amazing person.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: I just loved our first conversation and getting to meet
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: you and all the great work that you do, and
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: I wish we had recorded that call, so I'm excited
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  Speaker 3: to finally be able to do that.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Thank you for inviting me.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. You know this podcast we talk a lot of
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  Speaker 1: issues that business owners leaders face, Mindy, and you're on
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  Speaker 1: the cutting edge, I really believe, and we're gonna dive
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: into that a little bit today. But before we do that,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I like giving people an opportunity to learn a little
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: bit more about you, your journey as a business owner,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: why do you start your company and your specific angle Mindy.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: So if you wouldn't mind take us back a little
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: bit before you started agile and R and what got
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  Speaker 1: you to where you're at today?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I'll try to keep it short.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, ow good.
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  Speaker 3: I have been in the world of HR for over
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  Speaker 3: twenty five years.
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  Speaker 2: I can't believe it.
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  Speaker 3: It was twenty five years in June, and longer than
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: I'd like to admit.
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  Speaker 2: I fell into.
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  Speaker 3: HR through the world of social work, and I have
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: always just had a calling to help people, to drive
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  Speaker 3: positive impact, to be able to kind of help people
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  Speaker 3: realize what was.
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  Speaker 2: Possible when they didn't see it before.
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  Speaker 3: And so I think I've always loved being the concept
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  Speaker 3: of being a guide and walking alongside of someone to
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  Speaker 3: help them go to a place they didn't think they
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  Speaker 3: could be before, and taking them from point A to
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  Speaker 3: point B.
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  Speaker 2: And so I really saw.
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  Speaker 3: The possibility of that through social work and then saw
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  Speaker 3: just the tie in of social work and workplaces because
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  Speaker 3: really social work is really looking at ecosystems, and each
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  Speaker 3: workplace is its own unique ecosystem, and it's really around
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  Speaker 3: how do we take people from point A or a
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  Speaker 3: group of people from point A to point B and
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  Speaker 3: think about, you know, what is that iterative behavior change
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  Speaker 3: that we are coming alongside of them and being able
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  Speaker 3: to help understand different tools and resources along that journey
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  Speaker 3: to help, you know, move someone to a desired future
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  Speaker 3: state and creating ecosystem awareness of how the ecosystem from
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  Speaker 3: a sociology point of view can help better come alongside
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  Speaker 3: of and be aware of often the invisible within our ecosystems.
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  Speaker 3: And so my husband and I got married when I
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  Speaker 3: was still in college. He's three years older than me.
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  Speaker 3: He was already in the workplace, and as I was
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  Speaker 3: learning the world of social work, he often would overhear
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  Speaker 3: me and say, man, I really wish our HR person
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  Speaker 3: would have asked this, And I was like, HR, talk.
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  Speaker 2: To me more.
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  Speaker 3: So he set up a meeting, and from there I
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  Speaker 3: am now I you know, was in the backyard in Seattle,
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  Speaker 3: started at Microsoft and then went on to Expedia and
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  Speaker 3: other amazing organizations, and you know, really, you know, fell
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  Speaker 3: in love with how do we create healthier workplace ecosystems?
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  Speaker 3: Because I truly felt healthier workplaces, healthier communities and society.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think that's so great, Mindy. And you know,
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  Speaker 1: I remember one of the things we talked about before
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: we started recording this and why I wanted to have
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  Speaker 1: you on the podcast is but you took HR in
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  Speaker 1: a different direction than I've seen, and I see a
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  Speaker 1: lot of things that's just kind of compliance. It's a
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  Speaker 1: little bit more reactive at times, not so strategic. And
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  Speaker 1: I thought, Okay, you're looking and I love the word ecosystem,
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  Speaker 1: and my background is in biology and nature, and I find, like,
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  Speaker 1: what but there isn't Sometimes people aren't thinking about this
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  Speaker 1: so strategically and thinking it further ahead. And I think
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  Speaker 1: that's where you're unique and a little different than I've
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  Speaker 1: seen in coming and taking all this experience that you've had,
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  Speaker 1: and so you know, what does that look like for
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  Speaker 1: you as you've been moving forward to actually move from
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  Speaker 1: a reactive to more strategic approach eystem.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I find it's the ambiguity because it's the
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  Speaker 3: and I love that I worked underneath leaders and within
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  Speaker 3: organizations that really inspired my curiosity. Like I've always been curious.
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  Speaker 3: I've always looked for there's got to be a better way.
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  Speaker 3: You put a line on a paper and always try
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  Speaker 3: to think about how can we make that line better,
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  Speaker 3: especially with the connected group of people, and so how
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  Speaker 3: can we approach this in a different way? And and
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  Speaker 3: for me, the the alignment of technology and people and
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  Speaker 3: driving together towards shared outcomes within the ecosystem of work
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  Speaker 3: it's really how we as peoples, as humans are really
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  Speaker 3: exploring and experiencing this ecosystem, and that is all the things, right,
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  Speaker 3: How are we experiencing how we're.
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  Speaker 2: Doing the work with the different technology.
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  Speaker 3: Tools that are at our resources, who the members are,
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  Speaker 3: our team, our managers, and all the.
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  Speaker 2: Overlay of what's provided.
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  Speaker 3: Within that ecosystem, and how aligned is it or not,
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  Speaker 3: how easy is it or not to use. We alway
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  Speaker 3: down even to the knowledge management and data and accessing tools.
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  Speaker 3: And I've always loved technology because I just always saw
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  Speaker 3: the opportunity for it to help positively impact the ability
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  Speaker 3: for people in workplaces to do, you know, find do
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  Speaker 3: better ways to do their work and get their work done,
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  Speaker 3: but also free them up to do more of what
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  Speaker 3: they wanted to do. Right, Like so many of us
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  Speaker 3: start a job, we have the best of intentions, we
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  Speaker 3: have like all these dreams of what we want to
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  Speaker 3: accomplish and how we want to move the needle forward
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  Speaker 3: within that company. And then how often do we start
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  Speaker 3: to see that someone starts to become disengaged, often because
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  Speaker 3: they're frustrated, they're also disconnect Did they've lost that sense
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  Speaker 3: of clarity, They've lost a sense of how do am
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  Speaker 3: I impacting the end result of like how this company successful?
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  Speaker 3: I don't understand and and that breakdown and it breaks
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  Speaker 3: down in so many different ways.
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  Speaker 2: And is where that strategic piece.
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  Speaker 3: If we could be more proactive and start to think about,
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  Speaker 3: you know, what is that ecosystem? What are the overlays,
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  Speaker 3: how do the people process and technology? How are they
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  Speaker 3: connected or not? And how do we move through when
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  Speaker 3: we think of the ever ongoing change that exists within
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  Speaker 3: a workplace and in an ecosystem as it evolves. Because
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  Speaker 3: every time we depart or introduce a new person or
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  Speaker 3: human into an organization, that's also dropping in an element.
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  Speaker 2: Of change.
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  Speaker 1: Change change, right, change, and it's just.
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  Speaker 3: That employee, even the employed journey right and or even
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  Speaker 3: the concept of the journey of uh in incorporating a
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  Speaker 3: new way of working or a new technology or departing
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  Speaker 3: an old piece of technology. How are we communicating that
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  Speaker 3: or thinking about how people are feeling about that and
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  Speaker 3: and how is that being thought of? When we're thinking
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  Speaker 3: about how we communicate it, we're asking people questions and
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  Speaker 3: are we use using leading questions? Because if I'm in
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  Speaker 3: a place of power asking employees for their feedback on
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  Speaker 3: something very significant and I as, let's say, someone early
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  Speaker 3: on in my career, and you know my pay is
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  Speaker 3: you know, you make the decisions about my pay and
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  Speaker 3: that level of If there's not that level of trust,
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  Speaker 3: if I'm asking questions in a very leading way as
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  Speaker 3: you know, a person of influence and power, and I
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  Speaker 3: may not even intentionally mean to, but if I don't
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  Speaker 3: even have that lack of if I don't even have
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  Speaker 3: that ability to understand how I'm even asking a question,
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  Speaker 3: then the answer is going to be caveatd or coached, couched, sorry, couched,
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  Speaker 3: or less than what the true answer is. So I
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  Speaker 3: mean all of these are layers, yeah, yeah, and an organization.
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  Speaker 3: And that's why it's so important for me to when
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  Speaker 3: we do come in that we have to be thinking
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  Speaker 3: about the people and all the things that make us
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  Speaker 3: complex and how can we start to break that down
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  Speaker 3: and how we drive and think about decisions around process
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  Speaker 3: and technology, And if we aren't having those strategic conversations
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  Speaker 3: with the people in mind, we just diminish our ability
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  Speaker 3: to drive to greater results.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: What I'm gonna I'm gonna let the audience in a
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: little secret here because those of you that haven't done
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: the five voices assessment. I know what Mindy's five voices
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: assessment is, Mindy, and you are that connector creative what
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I call pioneer. And what's interesting about that and when
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: I think you bring uniquely just who you are and
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: is what I call the future oriented voice. Not everybody
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: has always fe you're oriented and and I'm not saying
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  Speaker 1: this is good or bad. It is your gift. But
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  Speaker 1: sometimes you get a lot of HR folks that are
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  Speaker 1: very much more present oriented, only dealing with com clients today,
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  Speaker 1: and we need both. It's not either or right. But
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: what you're what you're you're saying is a lot of
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  Speaker 1: folks they don't look at that, and then they kind
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: of they're kind of behind the already behind. If they
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: get somebody that's just going to come in and try
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  Speaker 1: to implement some things and not prepare for the future,
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  Speaker 1: you're you're going to be behind. And so what I
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  Speaker 1: hear you saying is why don't you get ahead of
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  Speaker 1: it and be in a better place supporting your team
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  Speaker 1: rather than lagging right right?
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  Speaker 2: And and you think that's so hard? Is so?
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  Speaker 3: And that's where I come alongside with HR leaders and
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  Speaker 3: the blend of coaching, advising, and and and consulting in
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  Speaker 3: different ways. It depends on where they're at, but it's,
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  Speaker 3: you know, often they see they want to be working
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  Speaker 3: in a different way, but they're often missing what is
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  Speaker 3: that next step because they're in a place of overwhelm
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  Speaker 3: often and they've gotten kind of they've gotten lost along
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  Speaker 3: the way sometime. I mean it's different, there's a different
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  Speaker 3: story for each person, but it's it's this desire to
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  Speaker 3: be in a be able to be having different conversations
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  Speaker 3: with their the leaders in the organization, to be showing
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  Speaker 3: up in a different way, to be in that proactive
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  Speaker 3: strategic mindset, but also the day to day has to
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  Speaker 3: get done. And knowing that also that there's just this
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  Speaker 3: level often that they have around the shame and the
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  Speaker 3: guilt of I I I'm not showing up in that
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  Speaker 3: way I need to be, but I don't know how,
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  Speaker 3: and I'm already overwhelmed with what I'm just doing now.
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  Speaker 3: And you know, maybe I am. I often, you know,
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  Speaker 3: when I start working with the individuals, Unfortunately, sometimes the
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: first question is, you know, maybe I am the problem, Mandy,
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  Speaker 3: Maybe I am Maybe I can't do this anymore? And
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  Speaker 3: I used to love this. I don't love this anymore.
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  Speaker 3: So often it's also just being able, you know, when
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: we start to shut down in that way, as you know,
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  Speaker 3: no matter what you're in leadership, when we start to
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: you know, come into a less than mindset, it's like
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  Speaker 3: a scarcity mindset.
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  Speaker 2: We also start to filter.
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  Speaker 3: From an emotional place and and we start to not
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  Speaker 3: see the facts anymore, and we start we get we
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  Speaker 3: get some blind spots put in place, and and uh,
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  Speaker 3: sometimes it's about being able to come to a place
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  Speaker 3: of coming alongside of someone and just even you know,
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  Speaker 3: let's take a step back, let's take a breath, and
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  Speaker 3: let's get a different perspective on the situation and what
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  Speaker 3: might be possible here, what can we control and what
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  Speaker 3: would different look like?
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  Speaker 2: What haven't we tried yet?
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  Speaker 3: And often it's amazing how people will keep trying the
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: same thing.
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  Speaker 2: Over and over and over again and.
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  Speaker 3: And they and it's like and not realizing why it's
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: not working.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Yep. Well that's that's the value and the reason why
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  Speaker 1: we have the business around Table podcast mindy is to
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: get voices like yours out there, reaching a different group
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  Speaker 1: of folks that you wouldn't hear, and we're saying, hey,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: look you don't have to go alone, and here's a voice,
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  Speaker 1: here's another person. In this case, Mindy's helping HR professionals
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  Speaker 1: and coaching and guiding and facilitating them to help be
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: better and so that you don't get stuck in a
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  Speaker 1: rat And you're like, oh, you know, I didn't really
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: even realize I had that blind spot. I mean, I'm
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: always I'm still getting coached because I have blind spots.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: I need help along the way, right, yeah, right, we're
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: talking before we're recording. It's like we're continuing ongoing, but
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: we're helping those that are coming along, you know, that
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: are maybe further behind us. And I feel like, you know, Mindy,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: you you have such a passion for this and wanted
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: to see organizations show up healthier and break down, and
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: like like you said, I think I was listening to
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: one of your other podcasts. Sometimes people are even you know,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: don't even aware or what they're doing in these things,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: and so you can help them as a good coach
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: is just asking, like you said, leading questions and getting
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: them some perspective and like I couldn't consider that right.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Right, and seeking to understand I think also within sometimes
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: initially when I'm working with someone that maybe first time
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: into the leadership role. You know a lot of times
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: we doubt ourselves when we are taking a new job. Yeah,
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: it's we often will just start, oh, of course they
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: know more than me. I'm just going to go do this.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: When when it's really even you know, do we are
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: we clear on even? What does success look like? When
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: someone's asking us to do something? You know, what what
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: is it? Have we taken the time? Do we clearly understand? Okay,
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: that sounds great? Can you help me understand? You know,
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: when this is done, what is done look like for you?
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: What does success look like for you in that? And
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: you know, have we tried in this organization tried to
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: do something like this before? What didn't work? It's about
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: that curiosity mindset. But because often in HR we have
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: all the things, we become the kitchen sink of the organization.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: Often where we have we have a lot of things
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: that shouldn't just be transactional, but often currently are talked
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: about in a transactional way and should be strategic. But
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: we're just like going through the motions because we're just
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: trying to stay We're just trying to stay we're above water,
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: We're just trying to I mean, yeah, I mean some
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: of the people often feel like they're drowning or about
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: to drown, And so how and how can I even
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: go and try this different thing when I barely can
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: get through the day And then I feel shame and
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: guilt because I want to think about how do I
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: use AI or you know, how do I use human
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: centered design?
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  Speaker 2: Mandy?
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: I heard your podcast, but I don't even know how
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: to make it through my day? And so how do
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: we in the moment of where they are, just get
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: the ability and place to breathe and be able to
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: shift a perspective and be able to think about, okay,
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: when the next time someone comes up, you know, with
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: that next thing to do, how might we stop and
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: have a conversation and just be curious and ask some
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: questions that also help them have some realization of Oh,
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: actually I didn't think about it that way before.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: That's a really good question.
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  Speaker 3: And maybe what I just asked about isn't the best
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: next thing for us to do, you know, and start
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: to co create. It doesn't have to be hr alone
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: in a closet designing everything. But how are we actually
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: facilitating with the right leaders and employees.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Co shared solutions.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: You're hitting the nail on the head in Minnie, because
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: again that's why I want to do on the podcast
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: because of what you're doing. Honestly, really, because I'm you know,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: with my company, steward your business. I'm looking at the
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: leadership team. I've seen a lot of people come up
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: from the technical ranks. I've been you know, over twenty
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: five years myself in professional services, environmental consulting, and a
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: lot of people that are great at being an engineer
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: or biologist and archaeologist, whatever the case might be. And
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: now you're asking them to step in up in the
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: management and leadership roles and they don't have those skills.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: They don't know them. They don't even know, you know,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: how to you know, they might be making a misstep
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: because they don't understand all. I shouldn't talk about it
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: this way, not because they're trying to do anything wrong,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: they're just unaware. And so, like you said, co creating.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: I like how you're saying this of like, don't just
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: wait for HR to do all of it, because it
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: needed to come from both sides. It's like HR music.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: I think support and create an ecosystem, if you will,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: a framework for to thrive. But you also you as
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: as a group manager or leader, department head, what the
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: case might be, you have to take initiatives as well.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: You know your people, you know what they need hopefully
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: or you get some feedback and say, how can I
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: support them better? What can I do to help them
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: along their their great because that's what I find too
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: many nowadays. There's new people that have again never been
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: a supervisor. They don't know what that looks like supervisor.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Do I just talk with them once a month? Do I?
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: Not like you're injected with manager skill sets like the
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: matrix right, We're not uploaded with manager capabilities. And there's
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: also this sense too for some leaders that now that
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: I'm a leader, I'm supposed to know all the answers,
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: like my team support is like for some reason, there's
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: this lie that we've I mean, I truly believe it's
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: a lie that leaders are supposed to know all the answers,
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: that that employees are supposed to expect you to have
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: all the answers. Some of the best leaders I've worked
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: with have created the space of asking questions to co
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: create with their teams because they they come from a
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: place of I'm only as great as my team, and
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: you know what, I don't have all the answers. I'm
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: not the day to day expert, right, and I have
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: those people on my team.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: And by bringing those.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: Experts together, which I love about Agile, the concept of
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: the agile the uh IF frameworks is because it's all
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: about teaming and how do we create self managed teams
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: and how do we bring that level of expertise and
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: teaming together. But the manager actually by giving all the answers,
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: whether they're right or wrong.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Actually stops.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: It stops at a level collaboration because now the team
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: is just relying on the leader for the answers.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: They're not being elevated or they're not.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: Their strategic skill set has become stunted because they're just
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: waiting on someone to give them direction on what to do,
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: and they are also waiting for the answers from their leader,
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: which to some point doesn't scale because then you as a.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Leader become a blocker. Right Yep, I guess I could
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: go on forever. Ap No.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's why you're absolutely right, and that's why
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: you know where because you and I are very complimentary
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: to each other here in this conversation, because yes, I
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: see this happen where there's a stunted like you cannot
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: scale that. And what I find is the business owners
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: oftentimes they have not invested in getting somebody like yourself.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Both two sides of that. There's two I say, there's
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: two sides of a coin here. You have the HR
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: side that you're talking about, Mindy, that hey, we have
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: to figure out, Yes, we have to do some compliance
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and there's basic things we have to cover, and then
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: how do we create be more strategic in creating this ecosystem,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: and then how do we integrate that with the rest
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: of the company. Because I find sometimes, particularly if you're
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: talking people that are not in the admin world, they're
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: not quote unquote in the office or whatnot, they feel like, hey,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: there's us against them kind of mentality at times, or
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: we don't want to I don't know if I trust them.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: You know, they're part of the company, you know what
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: I mean. You talk a little bit about that, Mandy
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: and your experience.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: There, and I see that a lot too around you know,
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: as if we aren't aligned, if we don't have the
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: trust as we're growing in scaling.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: The smaller we are, the easy it is to communicate.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: We have known ways of working, but as we start
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: to introduce new people and if we haven't done a
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: really good job of setting a way of working as
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: standard operating oh well, whether you want standard operating procedures
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: don't sound very exciting, but they create that level of clarity,
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: right of how we do work and how you know,
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: work gets done here really well? And how often are
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: we looking at those and refining them as we you know,
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: are obviously evolving And obviously that.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Doesn't usually happen.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: It's just people have worked together before they start something great.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: Then they start growing and scaling, and the more we
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: we just start to break down with communication and alignment.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: And then everyone thinks that they have buy in, but
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: they don't because we haven't fully vetted something. We haven't
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: you heard from everyone around the room. Do you have
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: questions about this? You know, people may not feel comfortable
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: asking questions, so they're walking away with a half formed
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: thought on what their wrole is, what's expected of them,
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: what does success look like? And then we start to
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: see the siloing, right, we start to see people doing
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: the best that they can with the limited awareness and
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: the I think we're aligned.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: But are we?
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: And it just as and that just compounds and compounds
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: and compounds, and I start to see, you know, how
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: do we pull back from that? Y like once we
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: lose sight of that, you know what's at the point.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: But then there's fear, right then there's fear that comes
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: in around oh my goodness.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Like.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Is that my fault? Our fault?
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: And is there a trust in this room to have
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: a conversation of like, hey, I'm not sure where we
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: are anymore, or I'm not sure what's expected of me?
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: And do your director reports feel.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: Comfortable like asking questions and saying, hey, I'm not sure,
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: can you help me understand? And the fear just like compounds.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: And one of the things with like AI and digital transformation,
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: and when we have these silos, I've often we've like
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: in the lack of communication and alignment and we have
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: all these meetings where actual decisions aren't even being made
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: and people are going off and people are wondering why
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: am I like saying the same thing five hundred times
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: and yet I'm not seeing any progress or I feel
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: like I'm talking about the same thing over and over again.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: But there's a sense of fear. And then when we're
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: in a place of fear and scarcity, we start to
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: do the less then behaviors like micromanagement and all the things,
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: And it's just and I often find fear is like
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: right now, the fear and the uncertainty and the which
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: really shuts down the level of creativity and the level
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: of collaboration of trying things out and with AI and
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: with the world that we're moving into. These are things
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: we haven't done for and we're not going to get
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: it right the first time, so we're going to have
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: to fail. But do we have the room and the
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: capability in a human way to even go into that space. No,
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: because there's lack of trust, there's fear, there's uncertainty, and
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: if we're not comfortable being having change is uncomfortable. And
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: if we're already at capacity with our discomfort, because we're
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: in a working situation that's already has all the things
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: we talked about, introducing more discomfort was trying something new.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: You're not going to say yes to that, but it's
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: the very thing you need to if you want to
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: continue to grow and evolve and stay relevant and meet
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: whatever needs of the people that you're serving as a company,
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: whether it's a product or you know, a service you're delivering.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: And so that's where you start to see the breakdown
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: and those results, and where you.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Don't see when you do have keep talking no, So
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: when when you do, and I'm agreeing with you, you know,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: I look at alignment, I look at the relationships like
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: a trust or how communication is being done. It takes
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: time to rebuild trust in different areas, and so it's
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: worth it, it's worth it, absolutely worth it, but it
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: does take time. It's like getting into You didn't get
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: into debt overnight. I mean you're not You're not going
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: to get out of it overnight. And I think some
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: people want a quick fix and they don't realize this
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: is going to take time.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Time. It's so worth it, right, so worth it.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: But it's uncomfortable and it's hard, and it requires a
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: level of vulnerability, and.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: That brings up fear for people.
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: And that's the very thing our central nervous system, our
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: survival mode, whether and often it's not even at our
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: level of consciousness, and then we're avoiding the very things
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: that we should be leaning into without even realizing it,
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: and that's often one of the biggest challenges and one
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: of the things that I've started to see, like the
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: biggest conversation we should be having as an organization is
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: almost like doing maybe this is probably not.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: The right word.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: I wish I had a better word. But and if
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: you disagree with me, by the way, please let me know.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: I love to have a disagreement. It's healthy.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: It's healthy conflict.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Patrick GLENCIONI five dyscuptions of a team is about fear,
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: Like doing a fear audit. How is fear showing up
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: in this organization? How is fear as a leader keeping
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: me from being able to truly see the current state
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: in a way that is factual and not emotional, Like
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: I feel like that is like one of the things
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: that I'm starting to try and lean in with is
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: to really think about how is fear showing up and
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: is how is fear keeping us from the true conversations
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: that we need to be having to truly identify what's
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: getting in the way.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Of us mindy. One thing I've seen as a third
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: party outside of the company is it gives a different
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: dynamic there where people sometimes are too close to the issue,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: like you're saying, or sensitivity. There's emotions there and they
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: need to be worked through, but it's it's really hard
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: when you're in the middle of that. So, you know,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I found, at least for when I'm working with clients,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: is I come in as an independent third party and
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: I can start to kind of see things. Is that
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: kind of your experience too many where you kind of
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: separate that out a little bit?
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I think it's really helpful because then
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: it's also about how do we facilitate a conversation a
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: way that doesn't place blame where you like, also aren't
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: pointing fingers right, because you are a third party and
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: you're able to think about the about the future and
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: about moving forward.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: And I think that helps a lot.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think having healthy conflict or you could
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: use the word as well, I to give you a
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: different word. Right, We're willing to collide, We're willing to
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: have those tough conversations if especially if we understand at
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: the end of the day we're on the same team
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: and we'll be better off. But there is a bit
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: of a I think setting the frame, setting the environment,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: like you said, Mindy, So to have that so it's
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: confusive for that because if done well, it can be great,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: but it can if not done well, it can do
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: more harm than good.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: Right, Yes, it's one hundred percent.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's why often, you know, people like I
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: want to save you know, if we talk about money
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: and investments, and I like, I hear you and I
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: love the you know whether because often executives will be like,
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: oh I can do that, I'd be able to have
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: that conversation.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I might. I'm sure you could. But just because you are.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: You know who you are, in the role that you are,
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: and you're down the team, you're actually a participant of
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: this conversation, and having an external person come in allows
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: you to be able to stay in the boat of
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: one team versus you being the person asking everyone else
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: to be in the boat. That's a different it just
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: sets a different context.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, I've been there myself, Mindy, to your point,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: been in that place where I thought I could, just
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: to your point, say I could do it. Yeah, And
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: honestly I think I was pretty objective. However, what I
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: didn't take into a consideration, Mindy, was what other people
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: their preconceived ideas and notions. No matter what I thought
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: they had preconceived ways of thinking and being and whatever
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: they had on me, and I couldn't change that story.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: I couldn't change that narrative because that's.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: There, right, yeah, yeah, right.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: So it's like you know, so then you're like okay,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: but then you're out of that and you're coming in.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: And that's the value having something like yourself as a
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: third party, coming in alongside and being a resource so
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: that the person could objectively say, oh, hey, Mandy, can
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: I talk with you or bend your ear on this?
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Because I know I'm I'm tainted it. I don't know
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: what the we the word you want to but I'm
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: a party of this. So no matter how much I
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: try to be objective, yeah, I got some I've just
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: got to be realized. There's what I want to say,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: some kind of conflict of interest if you will.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: And sometimes it is amazing how someone doesn't even realize
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: how much of an expert they are about the space
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: that they're in and the solution that they are considering,
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: but wouldn't have moved forward with because of the lack
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: of confidence they had in themselves to move it forward,
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: bring it forward. It would have just remained an idea,
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: and so man, there's so many times I come alongside
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: of of HR leaders that will well, what do you think?
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: I was like, okay, well I could tell you what
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: I think. Let me ask some questions. They're like, but
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: I hired you to make this happen, and I'm like, okay.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: There are times where I will just jump in and
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: like because it's an immediate fire and we need to
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: put it out. But often the beauty is within in
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: asking a few questions, simple questions, well what do you
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: think about what my.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Great look like? Because they've thought about it, they've.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: Been at these companies for a while, they have experience,
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: and they will you know, this is kind of what
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: I was thinking, But I don't really know, you know,
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: I just say yeah, blob and then they and then
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: they talk themselves out. But I'm in a moment I'm like, oh, well,
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: actually no, that is exactly like help me understand why
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: you why you feels that might be the approach, and like, well,
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: because I tried this before and kind of what I
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: learned from that was this, and so you know, I
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: really do think this might be a good next step,
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: and well what might it look like to try that
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: or why why are you hesitant?
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Why might you have thought?
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: Because you know it sounded you know, when you came
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: in to this conversation, it didn't feel like you even
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: had an answer, like you were you know, you didn't
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: even know where to begin. And yet this sounds like
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: you've had some thoughts into this. You know, what might
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: be keeping you, what might have kept you from like
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: moving forward with this. And then they look uncover maybe
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: some some blockers or you know, things that make them
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: hesitate or have lack of confidence. But the thing is
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: I didn't give them any answer. Yeah, they had the
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: answer they had.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: That's the power. Sometimes people don't understand the nuance here.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: So I want to point out for a minute what
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: you're saying, you're acting in this case, maybe you truly
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: are a coach. A coach is asking questions rather than
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: a consultant, and a consultant is more telling you. And
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I think this is where I think we were being
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: mindful as when we are consultants. Because to your point,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: if you told, if you're very directive and you're saying
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: do this, do this, do this, and you're not as
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: clued into the culture and what they've created you might
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: be doing more harm than yes, you're right, because it's
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: not theirs either. Like you just said, it's not there,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: it's not there. Well, the consultant gave us that. The
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: consultant told us making your own right.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a big difference.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: It's a huge difference.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: And that's why when I started doing this brickmen, I
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: birthed agule and HR.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: I saw I had worked with.
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: Some amazing HR consultants when I was an in house
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: HR professional and leader, but often that work we was amazing,
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: but we would have to go back and spend some
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: hours changing and evolving in order to integrate it into
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: the workplace and to really think about what is the
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: change elements that are going to be needed to make
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: this successful.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: What things might we need to let go? Where do
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: we start?
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: Maybe we shouldn't do all of it at the same time.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: And that's where I wanted to do something different. I
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: wanted to come at it from a blended approach of
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: HR advising, guiding, mentoring, and elements of coaching. I hesitate
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: to say coach because I'm not a certified coach, but
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: impale the context for it to be successful because it's
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: an ecosystem.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, I think we all can. So I'm
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: going to challenge you another. I hear you don't have
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: to be certified. I think all of us can be.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: If you want to put mentor in there too, it
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: is a better word. It's a mentor. But coaching is
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: just being, like you said, curious asking questions. So if
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: coaching is a word word for people that are listening
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: to this, but I want to encourage everybody to think,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: at some point you should be asking the questions and
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: not be so consultive and directly.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, especially when dealing with ecosystems of work. Yes,
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: because you could do way more harm than good, and
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: you need to meet them where they're at, Yes, and
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: understand that current state and really approach it from a
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: place of curiosity but also of iteration, because there may
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: be data that we actually don't have, but we need
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: to try something first in order to find what is
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: the true signal to inform before we spend a lot
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: of time and investment and money into something.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that definitely mindy. As I hear you say
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: that it's a total creative voice. Not everybody has that
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: creative voice, being able to see and innovative and kind
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: of have the early warning system. And I so appreciate
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: that because you're willing to try some new things and
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: in a healthy way, you're going to get people that
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: might be more what I call a guardians or nursers
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: that are more resistant to change, but they understand they
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: value that. They're like, okay, I value it versus you're
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: just gonna mess up my world. I'm gonna dig my
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: heels in, no, thank.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: You, right right yeah.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: And I don't want them to ever be like, oh
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: my goodness, I'm never gonna be able to do this
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: because the consultant ever taught me how like, and so
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: that's too, like I wouldn't want anyone to ever rely
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: on me. Like it's almost I always thinking about it,
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: as you know Mary Poppins that came in and that
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: you know, the movie wasn't really about her. It was
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: how she set up this family to be successful. She
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: gave the family, the parents, the toolkit and the.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: Resources to literally close the.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: Gap that they had within that family where they had
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: that level of brokenness and disconnect. And as they were
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: floating away, it wasn't like they were crying and saying, oh.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: My goodness, Mary, what are we gonna do without you?
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: They were celebrating this beautiful moment as a family flying
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: their kites for the first time, and and I love that, right,
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: And so that's where I want to be, Like it's
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: like Mindy's like behind the scenes, but the leaders and
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: the HR person, they're like they're celebrating this like moment
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: together and Mary Poppins isn't even there, Like she's not
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: even in their celebratory moment.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: She's like flying away.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that's that's that's a great image. And if
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: you haven't listened, I haven't listened a song in a while,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: but that's a great song to you. Go let's let's
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: go fly. Okay, oh man, Minnie. I know we're running
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: short on time on the podcast today and then we
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: could definitely continue and I'm probably have to have you come.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Back, and I'm always open to that.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Yeay, yay, no. But I think being a part of
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: the journey with them and you know, where where do
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: they need help and coming in and out, And I
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: think that's what I love about having you here on
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: the podcast. By the way, I'm gonna make sure everybody
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: that's listening make sure you know many and that connecting
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: on LinkedIn. We're going to put links to her, you know,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: agile and HR. You guys can connect with her and
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: she's got amazing seeing other videos on YouTube and other
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: podcast It's just a great speaker. So we're only getting
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: a snippet of you, Mindy today, but we're grateful for
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: it that you can connect with them. As we're wrapping
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: up the podcast today though, Mindya, I just kind of
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: you know, we covered a lot of ground, so you know,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: I know you're coming alongside those HR professionals with the
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: companies that are struggling with perhaps maybe they don't have
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: a full time HR person. They're still trying to figure
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: out how how do I do this well? Or and
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: or the people that like how do I show up
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: as a as a manager and work well with HR?
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: You know a couple of different things we talked about today,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: But what are what are maybe some thoughts final thoughts
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: right you know that you want to share with our
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: audience today that you would just say, hey, this is
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: just if you took nothing else from this conversation today,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: take this with you. Hopefully you know this will resonate
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: with them that what would that be for you?
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: Just that you'd want to share a lot if yeah,
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: because I like I can just I kind of I
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: have this word vomit in my conversations. It's so it's
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: easy to get lost in all the things.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: If I were just synthesize just a couple of things.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: It would be like, one, really ask where is fear
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: showing up for me? Where is it holding me back?
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: You know, journal a little bit like kind of around that,
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: And and two you know where maybe is there even
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: like self awareness is so powerful, like where might there
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: be some less than moments coming up for you that
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: might be blocking you from being able to lean into
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: greater conversations. And that's also around curiosity, because I find
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: that we fear and less than can keep us from
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: asking the questions that we need to to greater change.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: And so the third thing is the need to be
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: curious is stop, don't just jump into just doing something
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: really like lean in and listen, truly listen, full body listen.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: And then also it's about co creation. It's about you know,
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: if we are being siloed in our conversations and our
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: decision making, where are those key stakeholders across the organization?
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: Do I know who they are. Do I have true
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: relationships with them? Do I know them as people? And
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: how do I start to start to get curious about
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: how work is done here and how we partner together
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: to get that work done, to be able to reduce
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: some of that siloed, siloed feelings.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Oh man, Mandy, you covered you gave us a lot
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: of gold here today. Thank you so much for being
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: on the podcast. It was really a pleasure having you here.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. It is such a joy. Thank
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: you so much. David.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, you guys. I hope you got some good
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: notes there. Of course, we love it when you leave
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: a comment, share subscriber value on this. Make sure others
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: hear it so we can reach others and help them.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: I want to be healthier, like you said Mandy earlier,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: creating this healthier ecosystem. Whether you're on the HR side
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: or working with HR, make sure you connect with Mindy again.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: Thanks Mindy for being here on the podcast. Come back
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: again and join us.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I would always love to do that.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Thanks everybody for listening. Until next time, be well. Thank
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: you everybody.