Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 55

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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 55 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Missing Day fifty five Tonight, breaking down what Savannah Guthrie
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: said in her heartbreaking interview. Through all of that pain,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: the tears, the angst, there are facts, facts previously unknown.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: For instance, why was the back door propped open and
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: still propped open when sister Annie arrives? Yet we know
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: missus Guthrie went out the front door because that was
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: her blood. Tonight, a careful and close up look at
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: the blood does it actually reveal a shoe print? Also
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: breaking down what Savannah has revealed to us. Does she
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  Speaker 1: believe there is one per as opposed to multiple perpse? Also,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: she says she believes two of the ransom notes were real,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: and if so, what can we learn from that? And
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  Speaker 1: many more revelations that we have pieced together from Savannah's
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  Speaker 1: own words. Good evening, I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: In every investigation, you have to examine every single fact
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  Speaker 1: for what, if anything, it can prove. We learned a
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: lot by careful analysis of what Savannah has told us.
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  Speaker 2: Listen, I mean from the very early moments, you know,
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  Speaker 2: Annie and Tommy were saying this isn't. This isn't that
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  Speaker 2: case that you are used to where someone wanders off.
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  Speaker 2: She can't wander off, my mom her she was in
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: tremendous paine. Her back was very bad, you know, she
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: was trying to. On a good day she could walk
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: down to the mailbox and get the mail, but most
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  Speaker 2: days not. So there was no wonder off and the
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  Speaker 2: doors were poptom in. Yeah, and there was blood on
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  Speaker 2: the front doors, and the ring camera had been yanked off,
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  Speaker 2: and so we were saying, this is do something. This
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  Speaker 2: is not okay, Yeah, this isn't. Something is very wrong here, yea.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I know it is very difficult. It hurts to watch
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Savannah's pain, But in order to analyze a case, you
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: have to listen to every single word, no matter how
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  Speaker 1: agonizing it is. She is giving a name and a
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  Speaker 1: face to what crime victims go through every day in
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  Speaker 1: this country, but very often they're never heard. A good
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: investigator will listen very carefully to each and every word,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: parse it out and see what can be used to
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  Speaker 1: solve the case. First of all, door still propped open
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: when Annie Guthrie arrives. Why why did the perp want
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  Speaker 1: the door still propped open in the back. Joining me
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  Speaker 1: in all star panel. To make sense of what we
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: are learning, I want to go straight out to Brian Fitzgibbons,
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  Speaker 1: joining us Director Operations, USPA Nationwide Security, leading a team
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: of investigators around the world finding extracting missing people, former
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  Speaker 1: marine Iraqi war Vet. Okay, what does this mean now?
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  Speaker 1: To me? It means there were likely two perps. One
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  Speaker 1: was coming in the back and we heard that at
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: the beginning, and I'll circle back to Dave mac on
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: that the entry was made through the back and the
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: front door was not broken into. Now we're hearing that
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  Speaker 1: resounding again, the back door propped open. Interesting sub question,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Why not just open the door and go in and out?
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Why did you have to prop it open? Some would say,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: well to carry Nancy Guthrie out, But she went out
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  Speaker 1: the front. So what do you make of it? What
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  Speaker 1: can we learn?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah?
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  Speaker 4: I think I think what it tells us first of all,
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  Speaker 4: is it confirms the initial reports that entry was initially
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  Speaker 4: gained through the rear of the residence. The second thing,
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  Speaker 4: you know, when I hear door propped open, I think
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  Speaker 4: that I'm propping that open to come in and out,
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  Speaker 4: or that there's someone following me close behind. You know
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  Speaker 4: that I'll gain entry and someone else is coming, you know,
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  Speaker 4: within a matter of minutes, not right away. So I
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: think we learn a little bit more and it adds
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  Speaker 4: color to that forty minute time span that we believe
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  Speaker 4: the perpetrators were on the property.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so you told me a little bit more than
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  Speaker 1: I posed in my question. Okay, so you kind of
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  Speaker 1: mirrored what I said, But you threw me a little
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  Speaker 1: bone there, Fitz Gibbons, and I'm going to run with it. Also,
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  Speaker 1: why are we hearing about this just now? Why are
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: we hearing about it just now? To Scott Iiker, founding
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  Speaker 1: member of Cash Cellular Analysis Survey team in the FBI,
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  Speaker 1: also Norfolk, Virginia PD, twelve years homicide now at Precisions
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  Speaker 1: Cellular Analysis. Jeffrey, and all of your years at the FBI,
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  Speaker 1: do you believe the FBI is not happy Savannah reveal
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  Speaker 1: that fact or okay with it?
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  Speaker 5: Well, there's two different aspects here. You can't control the
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  Speaker 5: victims family. We've learned that over the years. We try
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  Speaker 5: to instruct them on what should be released and what
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  Speaker 5: shouldn't be released. I don't think Savannah broke any real
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  Speaker 5: rules here. She's trying to keep this case into the
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  Speaker 5: public eye and that's important for her mother and for
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  Speaker 5: her family. So a little bit of information like the
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: back were propped open, sure does help us reevaluate the
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: evidence that we're seeing. And you're going to remember, we're
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: not seeing all the evidence. The police department and the
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: FBI need to keep things quiet until they've solved the case.
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  Speaker 1: Scott Iiker, You're right. Another thing we learned from Savannah,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to play for you what Savannah has
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  Speaker 1: just said in the last hours more information, but analyzing
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: what we have already heard. She says her mom not
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: wearing shoes and taken out of the home wearing pjs.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Is that right, Dave Matt Is that what she said?
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  Speaker 3: That's exactly what she said, that she was snagged from
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  Speaker 3: her bed in the middle of the night, enter pjs
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  Speaker 3: with no shoes.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to Savannah.
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  Speaker 2: It is surreal. It's how is it possible that we
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  Speaker 2: are having to make a videopeaking to a kidnapper who
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  Speaker 2: took an eighty four year old woman in the dead
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  Speaker 2: of night in her pajamas with no shoes, without her medicine,
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  Speaker 2: this little person, and to beg for.
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  Speaker 1: Mercy from our friends today YouTube Again, it's really hard,
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  Speaker 1: and I have done it for years and years and years,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: listening to victims witnesses tell heart wrenching stories, and her
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  Speaker 1: paint comes through the camera lens, and I believe it's genuine.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I believe everything Savannah said was genuine and accurate, because
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  Speaker 1: who would know the facts better than a family member.
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  Speaker 1: She's been through all the FBI briefings, She's talked to Annie,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: she's talked to Cameron. She knows what's happening in the investigation,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: and she says, no shoes wearing pj's. Now, I want
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: to throw something else in on that. If she didn't
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: have in her hearing aids, and we know there was
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: a pair of hearing aids there, if she left without
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: hearing aids, unless she had that second pair, that has
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: been the source of speculation. I doubt very seriously that
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: she didn't need glasses. I doubt an eighty four year
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  Speaker 1: old woman had twenty twenty in twenty nineteen. So if
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: she doesn't have her hearing aids and she doesn't have
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: her glasses, she's basically blind and death She has no
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: idea what is happening to her. She doesn't have on shoes,
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  Speaker 1: she's wearing pj's. I mean, an eighty four year old.
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  Speaker 1: I just keep thinking about my own life ninety four
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: living with us. Someone doing that to her should have
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  Speaker 1: no comprehension of what was going on at two o'clock
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: in the morning. But this brings up a question to
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Scott Iiker with Cellular Analysis Survey Team, who explained to
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: us before it happened, how Google and or Apple could
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: possibly scratch down the days on video and find video
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: and then poof it happened. Is there other video that
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: we don't know about? How do they know that missus
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  Speaker 1: Guthrie didn't have on shoes and was wearing her pjs.
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  Speaker 5: I believe they're still digging for a video. You got
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  Speaker 5: to remember where we're lying on Google. The FBI or
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: the Sheriff's Department can't get into the Google system, so
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: we're relying on Google, but constantly pressuring them to continue
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  Speaker 5: to work down through that sets of data to try
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  Speaker 5: to find snippets of information. And maybe they have and
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: the investigation has it, but they haven't released it. But
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: either way, they're.
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  Speaker 1: Going to CONTI why would they do that? My question is,
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  Speaker 1: do you believe there's more video? Do you believe that's
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  Speaker 1: where they got the information that she was barefoot and
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  Speaker 1: had on her pjs.
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  Speaker 5: I can only speculate, yes, there's more video, but and
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  Speaker 5: why would they not release something that would indicate that
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  Speaker 5: Maybe it's too shocking and maybe it's the family saying, hey,
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  Speaker 5: we don't want video of our mother being drug out
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  Speaker 5: of the house. We don't want that being on the air.
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  Speaker 5: And I wouldn't blame them.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace to Jeffrey Gentry Board certified
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  Speaker 1: Bloodstain Pattern Analyst, Senior crime scene Analyst, death investigator, former
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: toxicology lab analyst, and author of Forensic Science Application to
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: death and crime scene Investigations, also which comes into play
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  Speaker 1: later on tonight, Bloodstained Pattern Analysis. Also author of death
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Investigation Information to obtain during a forensic death investigation. Jeff
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  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. There are other explanations
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  Speaker 1: as to how they know missus Guthrie was wearing her
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  Speaker 1: pjs and that she didn't have on shoes. For instance,
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  Speaker 1: my mom does this. I set her shoes out right
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  Speaker 1: by the bed in case she gets up, even if
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  Speaker 1: she's sitting on her love seat listening to Andrea Bachelli
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  Speaker 1: on and on and on. I have her shoes sitting
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  Speaker 1: right there for her to just slip her feet into.
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  Speaker 1: What if that is her mo like my mom's. So
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  Speaker 1: what if they get there, Jeffrey, and they see the slippers,
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  Speaker 1: they're still there? Go with me on this. We know
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  Speaker 1: that the brother in law took her home the night
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  Speaker 1: before from dinner. What if he took her in and
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  Speaker 1: waited for her to get on of pjs and then
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  Speaker 1: those pjs were gone the next morning. It's two and
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  Speaker 1: two equals four. I've spoken to countless family members when
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: victims go missing, like runaways, and the parent knows what
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  Speaker 1: the child is wearing because it's missing. Like I know
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  Speaker 1: what shoes my mom has, I would know if some
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  Speaker 1: are missing. It's that could be a reasonable explanation. What
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  Speaker 1: do you think, jeff Gentry.
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  Speaker 6: Well, there's a couple of possibilities. One, it's the family
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  Speaker 6: just making assumptions. I mean, they assume that their mother
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  Speaker 6: went to bed with no shoes on, and they assumed
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  Speaker 6: that she was taken out of bed and immediately walked
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  Speaker 6: out the door without putting her shoes on. That's one possibility.
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  Speaker 6: The other possibility is that the family has more information
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  Speaker 6: that they're just not disclosing. And in any criminal investigation,
• 13:02
  Speaker 6: you can't expect that everything that the police or the
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  Speaker 6: FBI has.
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  Speaker 7: Is going to be released to the public. That just
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  Speaker 7: does not happen.
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  Speaker 6: So I do believe that there is a lot more
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  Speaker 6: information out there that we're not being allowed access to
• 13:13
  Speaker 6: right now, just because they're keeping it tight to their
• 13:15
  Speaker 6: investigation for when they get this suspecting custody.
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  Speaker 7: But those are the different possibilities.
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  Speaker 6: Is just family assumptions versus the police investigators have shared
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  Speaker 6: information with the family that is just not being disclosed
• 13:27
  Speaker 6: to the public, and I think that is very much
• 13:30
  Speaker 6: a realistic possibility in this case.
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  Speaker 1: Joining us doctor Jerlyn Utter. She is a clinical psychologist
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  Speaker 1: specializing in psychological evaluations, author of Mainlining Philly, also author
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  Speaker 1: of after Shock, How Past Events Shake Up Your Life Today,
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  Speaker 1: and producer of Utter Nonsense. Doctor Jerlan Utter, thank you
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: for being with us, doctor Jerlyn. Many people find it
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: hard to believe that you would know your mom's she use,
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  Speaker 1: how many she has, and what's missing. Same thing with
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  Speaker 1: my children. I know what shoes they have and what
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: they wear every single day. It's not that hard. So
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: why is that so difficult for people to believe? And
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: is it possible?
• 14:15
  Speaker 8: I think with this, Nancy, you have a media case, right,
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  Speaker 8: and there are people out there that are interested in
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  Speaker 8: the salaciousness of you know, I can't believe you know
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  Speaker 8: that they wouldn't know that or know this. But let's
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  Speaker 8: think about you know, human behavior and patterns and people
• 14:28
  Speaker 8: who are close to their mom. Clearly, when you look
• 14:30
  Speaker 8: at Savanna's interviews, she's very very close to her mom,
• 14:32
  Speaker 8: very attached to her mom. Her siblings are as well,
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  Speaker 8: So it's completely plausible that to your point, that they
• 14:38
  Speaker 8: would know and understand, you know, what slipper she has.
• 14:41
  Speaker 8: Maybe she has corrective shoes, Maybe she has certain slippers
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  Speaker 8: that she wears at night. Maybe there's certain pajamas she wears.
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  Speaker 8: Another thing too, when you think about you know, her
• 14:50
  Speaker 8: making the assumption perhaps that her mom's pajamas were on
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  Speaker 8: makes complete sense because if somebody or perpetrator came into
• 14:57
  Speaker 8: the house and abducted her and said, hey, we want
• 15:00
  Speaker 8: you to change, they're not going to take the time
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  Speaker 8: perhaps to discard discard the clothing. It would probably be
• 15:05
  Speaker 8: lying around or somewhere around the house. So when you
• 15:08
  Speaker 8: look about, when you look at patterns of human behavior, yes,
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  Speaker 8: it makes a lot of sense. When you're close with
• 15:13
  Speaker 8: your mother, you're close with your children, that you would
• 15:16
  Speaker 8: know what you know, what kind of clothes they have,
• 15:18
  Speaker 8: but you're outside, all of that makes complete sense.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Well, another thing, we just showed a photo of Missus
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Guthrie with a cane. Like, my mom has certain shoes
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: that feel better than others. Some of them are special
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: shoes for her feet. I would not be surprised if
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Missus Guthrie had let's just say, ten pair of special
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: shoes and that's what she wore, and that's what was
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: in her closet. And also I had to go out
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: of town last night for work, and the last thing
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I did before I went to bed was I facetimed
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: my mother and I saw her obviously, and I saw
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: what she had on. Sometimes she's too tired to put
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: on pj's at the end of the day, she'll sleep
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: in her little jogging outfit. I saw what she had on.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: How do I know they didn't have a FaceTime, I
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: don't know that. But there's more than one way to
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: skin a cat, there's more than one answer other than
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: there's secret video that we don't know about. Also, guys,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: as we go to air tonight, we are learning that
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: people have come to Missus Guthrie's home and they're taking
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: items out in boxes. What does that mean? Is it
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: evidence family keepsakes stuff the family doesn't want, they're left attended?
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: We don't know. Could be evidence? And if so, why now?
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: What has become significant now to take out of the
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: home that you didn't think about the first ten times
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: you were reviewing the home. Also, we are learning and
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: I don't really know how much credence to give to
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: this About another note, a letter sent to the media
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: the States, The sender is apologized, claiming they didn't realize
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: how serious Missus Guthrie's heart condition was and that she
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: has quote gone to be with God. I don't believe that.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: That screams BS to me. I mean, think about it, Gentry,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: the kidnapper is going to risk giving his identity away
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: by some apology and even mentioning God. This guy was
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: not worried about his reckoning day or meeting his maker
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: when he stole Missus Guthrie. So some ahole is sending
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: a bogus letter. Yet again, what do you think could
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: it be real?
• 17:44
  Speaker 6: I don't see this suspect as apologizing for anything.
• 17:47
  Speaker 7: They feel like they're in the clear.
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: Now it's been how many days since she went missing,
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: and there's still no solid leads, no arrests, no good
• 17:55
  Speaker 6: suspects in custody. So this person probably believes that they're
• 17:59
  Speaker 6: in the clear. Why would they have any reason to
• 18:01
  Speaker 6: apologize for anything. They're still carrying out their plan, So
• 18:05
  Speaker 6: I don't see that as being a realistic possibility.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I agree, I agree. I don't know why people do
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: things like this. It's just tortuous to the family. But
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: that said, we're not going to be able to stop
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: it here on crime stories. But what we can do
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: is put all of this brain trust together and analyze
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: what we are learning. Number One, we think definite two perps,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: one at the front, one at the back. We think
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: definitely that missus Guthrie who's taken out in are pj's
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: with no shoes. What does that tell me? Haste haste. Also,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: let's take a very careful look a close up of
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: the blood stains. The blood on the front of the porch,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: to many people suggest a shoe print. Now, before we
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: throw out the baby with the bath water, let's listen.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Your mind has to be open. If you have a
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: knee jerk reaction, that's not what this is. Fine, but listen, gentry,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: what do you make of it.
• 19:06
  Speaker 6: There's multiple drip stands on the porch that would indicate
• 19:09
  Speaker 6: that she was standing there for some period of time
• 19:12
  Speaker 6: while she's being taken out of the home. So that's
• 19:14
  Speaker 6: where our analysis that she was upright walking out of
• 19:17
  Speaker 6: the home, walking slowly, being assisted by someone else. That's
• 19:20
  Speaker 6: where we are getting that opinion or that information. And realistically,
• 19:26
  Speaker 6: people that are upright and walking near blood can step
• 19:29
  Speaker 6: in blood. They can either be bleeding themselves and transfer
• 19:33
  Speaker 6: blood to a surface, or they can step in blood
• 19:35
  Speaker 6: that's already on a surface. And what we're seeing looks
• 19:38
  Speaker 6: like some kind of a pattern impression, and a pattern
• 19:40
  Speaker 6: impression in blood is just some object that looks like
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: an object creating a blood pattern. And that could be
• 19:47
  Speaker 6: a footwear impression. It could be a sock, it could
• 19:50
  Speaker 6: be maybe an object that somebody dropped. But in this case,
• 19:53
  Speaker 6: it does look like a footwear pattern. It doesn't look
• 19:56
  Speaker 6: like your typical like running shoe. It doesn't look like
• 19:58
  Speaker 6: your Vans type pattern. To me, it looks more like
• 20:02
  Speaker 6: a trail shoe or a hiking shoe. But then the
• 20:05
  Speaker 6: other possibility of if her slippers are missing, maybe it
• 20:08
  Speaker 6: was a slipper. Maybe she's stuffing in her own blood
• 20:10
  Speaker 6: and creating that blood transfer pattern.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: We just established she's barefoot. Hello, we just established we
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: think she's barefoot. So it's not a slipper. Guys that
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: photos from Fox News. But Gentry, just because I believe
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: in one of your sub points doesn't mean I disagree
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: with everything you're saying. Could you keep going?
• 20:28
  Speaker 7: So, I mean we're assuming that she was barefoot.
• 20:31
  Speaker 6: We don't have physical evidence to suggest that yet, at
• 20:34
  Speaker 6: least we don't. Maybe the family does, maybe the FBI does.
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: So we have to, in doing especially blood pattern analysis,
• 20:41
  Speaker 6: keep all options still open until we can rule them
• 20:44
  Speaker 6: out completely. And so that's what I do with my
• 20:46
  Speaker 6: analysis is I'm making multiple suggestions based on the different scenarios,
• 20:50
  Speaker 6: and then analyzing the other evidence, we're going to kind
• 20:53
  Speaker 6: of narrow down those possibilities. But considering that it's in
• 20:56
  Speaker 6: the blood on the front porch right outside of the house,
• 20:59
  Speaker 6: we know that people for up right and walking.
• 21:01
  Speaker 7: You have to.
• 21:01
  Speaker 6: Consider that that is possibly a footwear impression that we're
• 21:04
  Speaker 6: looking at, and it has to be analyzed.
• 21:07
  Speaker 7: That is possibly a forensic link to the suspect.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: I just wonder, let's take a look at the house
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: plan as we know it, as best as we can
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: deduce it. We've got the front door open, and we've
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: got we've got her coming out the front door, and
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: we've got the back door still left open. They left
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: in haste. They didn't go back and shut the door. Dave, Matt,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: take a look at the floor plan. We think we
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: know it. This is from Matt leblank Ink. It's very helpful.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Now the front door, let's place the front door, and
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: let's place the back door. Looking at this, I'm hypothesizing
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: an educated guess that it was easier to get her
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: out the front door than the back and that they
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: were putting her in a vehicle. There's no way that
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: she could walk. They had to put her in a vehicle.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: These photos from Fox News Digital guys. So, Dave looking
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: at the floor plant as we believe it to be.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: What's your theory on back door open, but went out
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: front door?
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: I think you've got multiple people coming in the house,
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: and that's where they made entry through the back door.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: Then if you notice porch guy. When porch guy arrives
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: at the front door, it looks like porch guy is
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: trying to look left of the door into the home
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: through the glass, like is his compatriots inside? Are they
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: there to open the door to let him in that way?
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: That's why the back door would be propped open, and
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: that's why this guy would be looking for a way
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: in on the front door. They're gonna have to get
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: her out the front door.
• 22:49
  Speaker 7: You're absolutely right.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Hold on, let's see him walk up again, Dave, Matt,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: you just pointed out something I hadn't noticed. See, that's
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: why it's so good to work with a team, because
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: it's not just your eyes, it's everybody's eyes. And trust me,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: everybody on this panel, there's not a single dummy here.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: He pointed out that the guy looks off, looked off
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: to like he's looking in a window to see what
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: was going on inside. Another sentilla of evidence that there
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: are two perps. Now that's really interesting because later on
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Savannah states that regarding the ransoms, she refers to one person,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: it is surreal.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: It's how is it possible that we are having to
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: make a video speaking to a kidnapper who took an
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: eighty four year old woman in the dead of night,
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: in her pajamas, with no shoes, without her medicine. This
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: little person to beg for mercy.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: That from today YouTube, she definitely refers to one kidnapper,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: a kidnapper. Also tonight, a lot is being made by
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: haters that sister Annie called nine one one before she
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: called Savannah, and that's this is where that's coming from. Listen.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: And my sister called me and I said, is everything okay?
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: And she said no. She said Mom's missing. And I said,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: what what are you talking about? She said, she's gone.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: She must have had like some kind of medical episode
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: in the night, and that somehow, you know, the paramedics
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: had come. I started calling the hospitals, and the police
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: were there and talking to her at the same time,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: and it was just chaos.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: That from our friends at today YouTube. Okay, that simple
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: comment has ignited hell thought from haters, stating that that
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. Why would Annie call nine one one
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: before calling Savannah. Well, I'll tell you why, because I've
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: done it more times than I can count. I've taken
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: my mom. I am taking care of my mom, My sister,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: and my brother live far away. It's on me. And
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: if I think something's wrong with her, I immediately take
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: her to the er. She's ninety four. A sniffle could
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: be serious for her. It could be COVID for Pete's sake.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Then if it's serious, then I call them. If it's not,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: I wait till she's treated and I bring her back home.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: They know her at the er. We've gone so many
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: times in my beat up minivan. That said, of course
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: she called nine one one first. I don't get the hate,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: but it makes perfect sense to me. And hold on,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: brother Cameron. So far, Savannah Annie and her husband have
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: been the butt of a lot of hate, but now
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: apparently it's your turn.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: And he said, I think she's been kidnapped for ransom,
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: And I said, yeah, what, well?
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: What?
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: And then I mean, it sounds so.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: My cout.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Dumb could I be? But I just I didn't want
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: to believe. I just said, do you think because of me?
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: And he said, I'm sorry, sweet even yeah, maybe, but
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: I knew that you did.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I hope not.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, we still don't know, honestly, we don't know anything.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: We don't know anything, so I don't know that it's
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: because she's my mom and somebody thought, oh that girl,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: that lady has money, we can get make a quick buck.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, that would make sense. But we don't know.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that's probably, which is too much to bear
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: to think that I brought this to her bedside, that
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: it's because of me. They're not just saying I'm so sorry, mommy,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: I'm so sorry.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: From our friends at today YouTube. Other than seeing the
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: obvious pain Savannah is going through. Now, the haters have
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: jumped on brother Cameron because of that. Because Brother Cameron,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: who lives in a different state to minn Standing, said
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: this sounds like a ransom, a kidnap for ransom. Many
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: people are suggesting he knows that because he's in on it. Again.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, how many times does the family have to
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: be cleared? But people are still running with that Brother
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Cameron was in another state when this happened, so I
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: guess he'd have had to mastermind it. From afar, I'll
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: tell you why he thinks it's kidnapped for ransom. To
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Jeff Gentry, because if there is a burglar and somebody
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: comes in and they see the person. Overwhelmingly, statistically, the
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: burglar leaves. If it's a she would have been and
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: left there. If it was a murder, she would have
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: been murdered and left there. So why else? I mean,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: there are only a few alternatives Jeff Gentry as to
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: why you would cart an eighty four year old woman
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: out of the house with no shoes in her pjs.
• 29:00
  Speaker 6: Right, It's clear that these people came in with a
• 29:01
  Speaker 6: mission in mind, they planned it out, they knew what
• 29:05
  Speaker 6: they were going to do, and they.
• 29:06
  Speaker 7: Carried it out. Exactly how or why we don't know.
• 29:09
  Speaker 6: But I was just wondering, is there any other possibility
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: in your mind of what it could be other than
• 29:15
  Speaker 6: a ransom case? I can't really think of any I mean,
• 29:17
  Speaker 6: why would somebody want to take an older woman out
• 29:20
  Speaker 6: of her home and keep her for this long? It
• 29:23
  Speaker 6: just doesn't make sense unless it's a ransom situation. But
• 29:26
  Speaker 6: then again, why aren't these people still asking for the
• 29:29
  Speaker 6: ransom money? Why would they just go silent at this point?
• 29:33
  Speaker 6: To me, doesn't really make sense on a lot of levels.
• 29:36
  Speaker 6: But I think we still have to be open to
• 29:39
  Speaker 6: other possibilities just in case, and hopefully the FBI, and
• 29:43
  Speaker 6: what possibility.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Just give me a legitimate possibility, Gentry.
• 29:47
  Speaker 6: Family being involved, close family being involved, a close friends,
• 29:50
  Speaker 6: somebody that dislikes the family.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, Gentry, I don't know if you've heard yet, but
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: they were cleared or if you've heard that they passed polygraphs.
• 30:00
  Speaker 7: I did not hear that.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: You would have to believe Savannah is in on it.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Do you really think that? Do you think there's one
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: shred of evidence suggesting she's in on it? I don't.
• 30:10
  Speaker 7: I really don't think so.
• 30:11
  Speaker 6: But I do think that in any investigation, especially high
• 30:15
  Speaker 6: profile ones like this, the investigators have to stay open
• 30:17
  Speaker 6: to all possibilities because once you completely shut that door,
• 30:20
  Speaker 6: it narrows.
• 30:21
  Speaker 7: Your mind and then you become somewhat biased.
• 30:23
  Speaker 6: You focus too much on one possibility, whereas if you
• 30:26
  Speaker 6: keep your mind open to other possibilities, you're going to
• 30:29
  Speaker 6: analyze information differently, You're gonna analyze evidence differently. So, although
• 30:33
  Speaker 6: I do not think that Savannah is involved in this,
• 30:36
  Speaker 6: and I don't believe that her family is involved, you
• 30:39
  Speaker 6: still have to, as a good investigator, keep your mind
• 30:41
  Speaker 6: open to all possibilities.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Well, Jeff, Gentry, can't the same be said of ruling
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: out suspects that come up with airtight alibis, You rule
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: them out and then you proceed forward. They're no longer
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: on the table. That's how I do it in an investigation. True,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: but unless a red flag appears and I think, oh wow,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I've got to read investigate that that has not happened yet,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: what about it? Ikeer.
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: As we go through those type of investigations and we
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: get new information, we have to go back and reevaluate
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: what we thought we saw or heard or what our
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: witness said back then and look at it in a
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: different light. So every time something changes, you have to reevaluate,
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: and it really does change your thought pattern as you're
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: looking at into the evidence from a different perspective.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Also, the family is being attacked that they quote let
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: missus Guthrie live alone, Well, if she wants to live alone,
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: you'd have to have her declared incompetent and become her
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: legal guardian and force her to live elsewhere. That is
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: the reality I know I went through with my mother.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: She nearly burned the house down and making by leaving
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: the stove on multiple times. Still, she refused to leave
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: her home and it was only when she got really
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: afraid and had eye surgery and couldn't literally could not
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: see for a period of months. That she agreed to
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: leave her home. It was an ordeal. So the reality is,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: what are you going to do? Force her to move
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: in with you or into a god forbid rest home.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: So all the haters obviously have not dealt with an
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: aging parent that doesn't want to leave their home. Brian
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Fitzgibbons way in.
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: We're a private security and investigations firm. In these critics
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: of Cameron Guthrie for making that association immediately, don't know
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: what it's like to live in the public eye and
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: a number of our clients, I can tell you right
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: now if someone went missing from their family, they would
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: immediately associate kidnapping for ansom. These people have to live
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: with a different paranoia than an average American citizen when
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: their sisters Vanna Guthrie on the Today Show every single
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: day in the national spotlight.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: You know, I hadn't thought of it like that, but
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, Ryan fitz Gibbons. In the last hours,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Savannah has reappeared. Many people are questioning why is she
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: speaking out? My question is why shouldn't she Many people
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: have suggested it's hurting the investigation. Is it? We know
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: very little. The press conferences have ceased. I believe this
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: is her attempt to keep her mother's case alive and
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: keep people listening and watching and thinking and reporting what
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: they know. Also, in the last hours, we learned that
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: billboards have gone up in Spanish. To you, Dave, Matt,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: is this suggesting that the purp is Latino.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: No, not yet, possibly mentioning Nancy that they've got bilingual
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: or Spanish language billboards up. These are all electronic billboards,
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: and they are all in the southwestern part of the US.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: We're talking San Diego to not in Tucson, but Phoenix,
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: and all the way through New Mexico like Albuquerque, and
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: in Houston, Texas, in Dallas Fort Worth. So they're focusing
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: on the southwestern part of the United States, and there
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: are a lot of Spanish language people, so it makes
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: sense that these billboards, these electronic billboards would be in
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: both English and Spanish.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: From our friends at Fox twenty six News, what about
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: if it's gibbons. I'm sure what Matt just said is true,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: but could it indicate more?
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think what you're seeing here is the search grid,
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: so to speak, expanding that that radius is growing as
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: they look for more leads and information. The FBI wants
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: to expand that radius into Spanish speaking areas, guys.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: As I was saying earlier in the last hour, Savannah
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Guthrie has again spoken, and I'd like you to hear
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: the last installment of what she had to say.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: This isn't some cheap faith. And my mom taught me
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: that God only requires our authentic presence and that he
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: has but I never doubted. I will not fall apart.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: I will not let whoever did this take my children's
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: mother from them. I will not let them take.
• 35:45
  Speaker 7: My joy.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: From today. YouTube do doctor jerrelen Utter. It seems that Savannah,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I'm certainly no shrink you are. But I have found
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: this to be common, a commonality amongst many crime victim
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: families that they blame themselves, even if this was missus
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Guthrie being targeted because the purp believes Savannah can pay
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: a big ransom. That doesn't make it Savannah's fault. It
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: makes it the purpse fault. He is the jackal, not Savannah.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: But I found that to be very common amongst victims' families.
• 36:24
  Speaker 8: Yes, survivor's guilt is real, and in this case, there's
• 36:27
  Speaker 8: an extra layer of pressure when it comes to you know,
• 36:31
  Speaker 8: a public figure like Savannah, So you have this implicit pressure.
• 36:34
  Speaker 8: So she's thinking, you know, not only you know, has
• 36:37
  Speaker 8: this terrible thing happened to my mom? But did I
• 36:39
  Speaker 8: cause this? Although there's no actual causal effect and it
• 36:43
  Speaker 8: doesn't make any sense when you look at it logically
• 36:46
  Speaker 8: and psychologically, that's how she's feeling. She's carrying that burden,
• 36:49
  Speaker 8: she's carrying that guilt. She has this implicit pressure because
• 36:52
  Speaker 8: she is a media personality. But I really did like
• 36:55
  Speaker 8: what she said at the end, Nancy, when she said
• 36:57
  Speaker 8: she talked about her faith, and she talked about you know,
• 37:00
  Speaker 8: not allowing this, you know, to take her away from
• 37:02
  Speaker 8: her children. So that is demonstrating that she's powerful, that
• 37:06
  Speaker 8: she's strong, and that she's trying to hold it together,
• 37:08
  Speaker 8: which I like seeing, you know, for her own mental
• 37:11
  Speaker 8: health and you know, protective coping strategy. Although it's hard
• 37:14
  Speaker 8: and she's upset and she's said and she's grieving, she
• 37:16
  Speaker 8: understands that, you know, she has a family to take
• 37:18
  Speaker 8: care of and that she still loves her mother, and
• 37:21
  Speaker 8: she's going to do what she can to try to
• 37:22
  Speaker 8: bring her mom home.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Let me remind everyone how
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: powerful her words are, because somewhere out there is the purp,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: probably at least two perps. And the more Savannah talks,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: the more she describes her mother and the angst her
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: family is going through, the more likely someone will develop
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: a conscience and speak out somebody somewhere. And then there's
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: a little thing called the Arizona death penalty. If if
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: missus Guthrie passed away during this ordeal, that's still felony murder.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: A death occurs during the commission of a felony being kidnapped,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: you get the death penalty for that.
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: DP.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: Doesn't require a long drawn out plan like poisoning someone
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: over weeks and months, it doesn't require multiple bodies, it
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: doesn't require the victor be a judge or a cop.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: You get the death penalty for felony murder. So whoever
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: knows something, whoever is an accomplice, whoever is the back
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: door guy who is aiding and a betting or hiding,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: wake up, take the reward and speak out, or come
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: a codefendant in a death penalty case. I want to
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: close tonight with the desire and the prayer that somehow,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: some way there will be a reunion between Savannah, Annie
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Cameron and Missus Guthrie. But that won't happen unless we
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: remain vigilant. I want you to hear the end of
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: what Savannah said earlier today.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Do we need an answer and someone has it in
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: their power help? It is never too late. And when
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: you two, the warmth of love and forgiveness that will
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: come will be greater than can be imagined. How can
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: someone vanish, yeah, without a trace. How someone knows something,
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: even if that's something is someone's been acting strange for
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: the last seven eight weeks, even if it's just that
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: somebody knows. My joy will be my protest, My joy
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: will be my answer, and being there is joyful.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Course, that was the hardest part for me of her
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: talking about joy in the midst of what she and
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: her family are going through. That's from our friends at
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: today at YouTube. You know what h Fitzgibbons. Nobody ever
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: said an investigation was easy. I've had plenty of investigations
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: and prosecutions where I wanted to quit. I just didn't
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: know which way to go. I didn't have an answer.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: I didn't know what to do, but I didn't quit
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: because that was my duty. We can't quit. Nobody said
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: this was going to be solved in an hour like
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: on TV. It's not like that. This is a real investigation.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: This is the way it plays out, and when you
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: run out of answers, you keep turning it over and
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: over and looking at it again and again and following
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: every lead, even if it's far fetched, until you come
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: to the resolution. It's not easy.
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: And there's over ten thousand hours of video, over thirty thousand,
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: thirty thousand tips, and they're still rolling in. So I
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: want to make it very clear that you know this
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: is the perpetrators behind this are going to be walked
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: down by law enforcement over time. Here this is happening now.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: We will have a resolution, come hell or high water.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: If you know or if you think you know anything
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: about missus Guthrie's disappearance, please dial eight hundred two two
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: five five three two four one eight hundred, call FBI
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: or to remain anonymous five two zero eight eight two
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: seven four sixty three. There is a one point two
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: plus million dollar reward for information leading to the whereabouts
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: of Miss Nancy Guthrie. We remember an American hero. Deputy
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Sheriff Stephen Brunner, Calhoun County Sheriff's Florida, passed away in
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: the line of duty, leaving behind a grieving family. Died
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: evacuating people from a forest fire. American hero, Deputy Sheriff
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Stephen Brunner. I want to thank you our guests, but
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: especially to you for being with us and keeping the
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: search for Nancy Guthrie alive. Can not front them