Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #266 - For Azeroth!: “The Worldsoul Saga”

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#266 - For Azeroth!: “The Worldsoul Saga” · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

0:00
Blizzard had a lot of news to share with us at BlizzCon 2023.
0:04
I'm sitting down to give my initial impressions with a very
0:08
special guest. Let's get into it on this
0:10
episode of For Azeroth. For calendar to the burning
0:16
region. For Gilnaeus our cars not died.
0:21
For the Lich King. For the Cindora.
0:26
For the Alliance. For the Horn for Azeroth, hello,
0:34
and welcome to another episode of For Azeroth.
0:37
I am your host, the true villain Manny, and I am joined by a very
0:42
special guest. And I'm not even going to say
0:44
who it is. I'm just going to ask the
0:46
question that I've been waiting years to ask, which is kind of a
0:50
trick question, but I'm going to ask it anyways.
0:52
Just how is your week being in World of Warcraft?
0:58
Hi Nanny. It's been, it's been great.
1:03
I mean like it was the first in person BlizzCon.
1:06
I, I did not attend, but the first in person BlizzCon in four
1:10
years. So I was at the last one in 2019
1:14
and this is the first one since then.
1:16
And I mean, I wasn't there, but the kind of just the feel of it
1:21
was so different than those online ones they did and I know
1:24
that like. Reasons that they had to do all
1:28
of that, but I mean nothing beats an in person con, although
1:31
it did send my anxiety through the roof a little bit because
1:34
and I again, I wasn't even there.
1:35
I'm just watching, but like I haven't been around that many
1:39
like people in four years. So I was just like, I was
1:44
looking at the con and I was like, I wish I was there, but
1:47
also I'm really glad I'm not there.
1:51
Oh, but I hadn't even thought about it because it's all on the
1:55
screen. I don't like.
1:57
It's just like, oh, there's people, they don't exist in my,
2:01
like, actual world. So it's just a presentation sort
2:03
of thing. And so, yeah, I hadn't even
2:05
thought about that. How?
2:06
When they showed like the big, like mainstage in the stadium, I
2:11
was just like, Oh my God, that's too many people.
2:12
That's too many people. I can't do it.
2:15
Can you imagine presenting in front of all those people?
2:19
No, no, too many people. But Oh my God.
2:22
And this isn't necessarily a Warcraft thing, although they
2:25
keep lumping Hearthstone in with the Warcraft stuff, so I'm just
2:28
going to talk about it here too. I'm so proud of Cora.
2:32
Cora, if you guys don't know, she started off as a player and
2:36
then she was a caster and now she works for Blizzard and now
2:38
she's not a lead designer. And so she did the opening
2:44
ceremonies for the Hearthstone team and talking about the next
2:47
expansion and talking about the battleground stuff.
2:49
And she did an awesome, amazing job.
2:51
And I am so proud of her. So I just have to get that out
2:53
there because she was so cool and she did it and I'm so happy.
2:56
But yeah, Speaking of presenting in front of all those people,
2:59
Cora did it, Yeah. No, the the Hearthstone
3:03
presentation was great. I have to say that the
3:07
presentations were just all over the place, kind of uneven.
3:10
There were some people who like, were really genuine.
3:15
Like the the guy who introduced Overwatch's new character.
3:20
I could not remember his name. I think it's Dion and you guys
3:24
can correct me if I'm wrong. Sending your emails.
3:27
fastpodcast@gmail.com, but genuine.
3:30
Just smile and like, yeah, his laugh was like a little nervous,
3:34
but like, the man had so much passion and it like, it just
3:37
made me so excited that like, I might download Overwatch again.
3:42
Oh, oh, I wouldn't. I wouldn't go that far.
3:45
You wouldn't have to play. Overwatch I I think I am.
3:51
I think I'm going to like the the hero seemed a lot of fun.
3:57
I think it's been enough time where it's like, oh, you guys
4:02
aren't doing any solo content where I'm like, it's not going
4:04
to be a game that I'm playing all the time.
4:06
But every so often I'll like poke my head in there and be and
4:09
be like, oh, that's kind of cool.
4:10
And with the, like, BlizzCon deluxe package and everything,
4:16
I've got like the season pass, so I might as well make use of
4:20
it. So I'm, I'm going to, I'm going
4:23
to give that a shot. I'm gonna give Hearthstone a
4:26
shot. You and I were talking about
4:27
that kind of on Twitter a little bit.
4:29
But like, those catch up packs look cool.
4:31
And the biggest thing for me and Hearthstone for getting back in
4:34
was like, oh, I'd have to get a million packs and I'll never,
4:38
I'll never catch up and I'll be playing like the most budget
4:41
deck to go through the ranks. But there's a lot to bring me
4:44
back to most, if not all, the franchises.
4:49
Yeah, that was really kind of a theme of BlizzCon this year.
4:52
I felt like every team said that whether it was in the opening
4:55
ceremonies or in the deep dive is something along the lines of
4:58
either like now is the best time to play or, you know, now is the
5:03
reason to come back. And we're listening to all of
5:06
your feedback and making changes based on it.
5:09
And you know, like it was very much like we're listening to the
5:11
fans. And now is the best time to come
5:13
back and play or like either to play or to come back and play
5:16
Like it was kind of a mix of those two themes.
5:19
And you're right, the ketchup packs or Hearthstone are really,
5:22
really interesting. The one thing is, it seems that
5:24
they're not actually available to buy in the store.
5:27
So you get some. Like you said, with the BlizzCon
5:31
package you get some. I think with the next expansion
5:36
bundles and then they said there's going to be some bundles
5:38
available in the store, but they're not like packs that you
5:40
just go and buy like you might be used to.
5:44
But that being said, those packs have up to 50 cards in them,
5:49
which is crazy and they showed an animation of opening I think
5:52
20 packs, 20 catch up packs and then it like gives you a whole
5:57
like. First of all, it spits out all
6:00
the cards in this crazy wonky amazing animation which the
6:03
Hearthstone team is kind of known for.
6:06
But then it like piles them with the best cards on top and then
6:10
gives you like an overview. So it's like you got like 7
6:13
legendaries and you know like 25 epics.
6:17
And it's probably more than that if you're opening 20 packs and
6:20
pulling the numbers off the top of my head.
6:22
But anyways, point is they have a really cool like pack opening
6:25
UI and yeah, like you can get up to 50.
6:29
Cards per pack, which is crazy when you're used to getting 5,
6:32
right? So even though they aren't
6:34
directly purchasable, it seems like if you're returning to the
6:39
game and you've got a couple of them, it's probably enough.
6:41
And they've had things in the game for quite a while now.
6:46
Like returning player bundles. As well as I think when you come
6:50
back into the game you can choose a deck and they give you
6:53
all the cards for free. They also have like pre made
6:58
decks available in the store, so there's lots of stuff that you
7:00
can kind of do in Hearthstone to get back into the game, but they
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haven't really like marketed it as much I don't think like it's
7:10
never been a a BlizzCon headliner like these ketchup
7:13
packs are. So I think that like they're
7:14
really making a push now to get people to come back and and
7:18
Hearthstone's been really fun. Well, Hearthstone's been in a
7:20
pretty great place for for quite a while now.
7:23
So yeah, I think if you're looking to come back, like now
7:26
is now actually is really good time.
7:28
So you're right. It's it's something that was
7:30
being put through as a general message almost without exception
7:37
in whatever franchise. It was like Warcraft being
7:41
lumped together as the Warcraft universe.
7:43
That includes Hearthstone. That includes their new Rumble
7:46
game that just launched that includes World of Warcraft and
7:51
then Overwatch. Diablo, which itself has Diablo
7:56
Immortal that they mentioned once, got no applause for just
8:00
silence from the audience. It was, nobody cares, said
8:03
BlizzCon for Diablo Immortal. I was actually kind of surprised
8:08
that they didn't have Heroes because the Heroes account
8:12
actually tweeted out like a couple days before BlizzCon with
8:15
patch notes. I was like what is happening so?
8:19
It seems like at least that their maintenance mode is
8:22
ramping up a little bit. So I was kind of almost
8:25
thinking, hoping that the in the opening ceremonies they'd be
8:28
like and Heroes of Storms back, but then they didn't actually do
8:33
that. But it would have been cool if
8:35
they did. It would have been really cool
8:37
if they did. And honestly, I I think that
8:40
kind of touches on one other thing.
8:43
Right at the beginning they say, hey, like, yeah, we've been
8:46
through a lot, but there's been some news recently that that I
8:50
hope you guys are excited for. We are now a division of Xbox
8:54
and like they're part of Microsoft now and your bear said
8:57
that and then he pulls out the the lead of Xbox and why am I
9:04
blanking on his name? Spencer Thank you.
9:07
Spencer, right, Phil Spencer comes out and he says some
9:11
things and I don't know these guys and like I have a general
9:16
knowledge of them. But yeah, Bear and Spencer felt
9:20
kind of like stiff and wooden like they were.
9:23
They were really leaning on the teleprompter, kind of, yeah.
9:28
Yeah, I generally like Phil Spencer.
9:32
I feel like he, I don't, I don't even know, like I don't know
9:36
what it is about him that makes him likable to me.
9:39
Almost like, I don't know, he just, he seems to really want
9:41
games to do well. Like just just like gaming in
9:45
general, he wants people to want to game and so like, I enjoy
9:51
that part of his personality. But enthusiastic presenter he is
9:56
not, I think more more often. I enjoy his like written
10:01
statements. I guess I enjoy, I guess, the
10:05
content of what he says much more than how he says it.
10:08
Because he is a little bland. Yeah.
10:11
But on the opposite end of that, we had the return of Chris
10:18
Metzen. Yeah, that was honestly the.
10:22
I mean like so we all knew Chris Metzen was back, right?
10:24
Like this was not news. This was not you know and he
10:27
obviously you get Chris Metzen back.
10:29
He is so well known. He's done so many Blizz cons in
10:32
the past. He's presented so many times
10:34
like we all knew he was going to be in the opening stage.
10:36
It was like the worst kept secret ever that he was going to
10:39
be in the opening. I don't think they meant it to
10:41
be a secret. It was, yeah, they put a big
10:44
like, hey, he's getting, he's not back part time.
10:47
He's all in sort of notification right before before they put out
10:52
the BlizzCon schedule. So everybody was like
10:54
Krzmetson's back. Let's see what he, what he's got
10:56
to offer sort of thing. And man, what a command of the
11:02
stage. Yeah, that's how you present
11:04
every other person ever. And so he comes out and he
11:09
presents World of Warcraft. Not just one, not just two, but
11:17
three expansions coming out in the next little bit with, like,
11:23
this big overarching thing that they're calling the World Soul
11:27
Saga. This is Blizzard meets the MCU
11:32
pretty much. Well, yeah.
11:35
And I think that like Metzen coming out and making that
11:38
announcement. I mean first of all.
11:40
I kind of loved how like tongue in cheek, he kind of bashed the
11:46
the writing team almost because it was like like let's be
11:50
honest, ever since he left, it's been a pretty shit story.
11:53
Like there's no kind of two ways about it.
11:57
They lost a lot of players. I mean that was, you know, both
12:00
in game problems and out of game problems, but still, you know,
12:03
they lost a lot of players and they, you know, didn't really
12:07
have. The greatest through line
12:10
between the expansions, Like we had Legion, which was great.
12:15
And then we had oh man, BFA we well, you could go back to our
12:21
coverage of BFA. We were in the hands of the BFA
12:23
storyline. Oh.
12:24
Bad, Yeah. So BFA could had BFA had
12:28
potential and then they just squandered all of it.
12:33
And then, I mean, Shadow Lands was like kind of OK, but again,
12:38
kind of a mess. And like they were trying to
12:41
work with things and and redeem characters and and like tie
12:45
things up and it just wasn't happening.
12:48
So I mean, like, there was so many issues in the storytelling
12:52
in the past few expansions. Yeah, he kind of came on stage
12:56
and he's like, yeah, remember all those things that you hated?
12:59
Remember all of those, like, clues that never went anywhere?
13:02
Do you remember that giant sword?
13:04
We're going to fix all of that. We're going to tie everything
13:08
together. We're going to, you know, take
13:10
all of the threads of all of the things and we're going to fix
13:13
it. And I feel like.
13:18
Not all, not the presentation, not the reveal, but the just the
13:21
idea in general. This whole World Soul Saga
13:25
thing, it was very much feels like.
13:29
Blizzard's attempt to kind of get everybody back on board, and
13:33
I feel like the best person to deliver that storytelling is
13:37
definitely Metzen, right? Like he he can come in and say,
13:40
look, I was there at the beginning.
13:42
I understand all of this lore. I'm not coming on, you know,
13:46
halfway through without a full understanding of the universe.
13:49
Like, I literally made the universe and now I'm going to
13:52
tell you how it works because I mean, I remember like we were
13:55
talking about. You know, maybe the next
13:57
expansion will be Light versus Void.
14:01
Like maybe we can have a Titan thing.
14:02
Like, I feel like these expansions, War Within Midnight
14:05
and Last Titan are kind of like all expansions that we theorized
14:10
about way way back years ago on FAS, right?
14:13
Like they they basically have so many threads.
14:18
Just hanging right now and he's basically coming in to tie up
14:22
all those loose ends, which I think is awesome.
14:24
And I feel like it's going to be a really satisfying story.
14:28
And I hope that they can flesh out some characters to give us
14:32
some more people that are kind of on par with Silvanus, who's
14:36
gone now and you know, like. We've got Anduin, he's finally
14:40
grown up. We've got Thrall, like there,
14:44
there's some good kind of tent poles.
14:46
But I'd like to see some of the other characters kind of get
14:48
fleshed out. Like, I want to see more like
14:50
Lothemar and the Lystra. I want to see more from like
14:55
even like Graymain feels like he's been a little bit kind of,
14:58
like pushed aside in the last couple expansions.
15:02
Like, I think they have a lot to work with and I really hope that
15:04
they can. Make some of those background
15:08
characters, or maybe like lesser known characters, a little bit
15:11
more prevalent and interesting. I know we're gonna see a lot of
15:15
Elyria, which is gonna be cool. Yeah, yeah, Elyria coming back.
15:20
We're in Legion. She was a big secondary
15:25
character, but she came in very, very much at the end.
15:27
She was a big push. And Tyralian, Yeah, we.
15:31
Had all the Tyralian and Illyria stuff that never went anywhere,
15:35
which I think is going to be the midnight expansion not War
15:37
within. But I yeah, I I would suspect
15:40
that Tyralian's going to be big at that point because it is like
15:44
the Midnight one is is the Void attacking the light.
15:48
Well and oh sorry Sun well rather and that becoming a big
15:51
thing. So I expect we're going to get
15:53
all of those light based characters that have been like
15:55
you said like put to the side kind of shelved like what
15:58
happened with villain he had this big part again in Legion
16:02
and then just fell off. So, like they're it looks like
16:06
they're taking the time to bring back all these characters, the
16:10
fact that Magny is going to be back.
16:12
Yeah, he matters. Except like, I mean, I did find
16:16
it a little bit funny in the trailer that they showed when
16:19
Thrall was like. That sword was pointed at
16:22
someone and it's just like, yeah, go talk to Diamond Magni.
16:26
He's telling you everything you need to know.
16:28
Like, where have you been? Thrall.
16:32
That's a thing. Thrall got sidelined.
16:34
Like, it's this. It's this entire thing of I I
16:37
like. I'm not sure I've ever said this
16:39
on the show, but one of the things that I hate in writing is
16:42
what I consider a parade of endless potential.
16:45
Like, here's a cool idea, let's not do anything with it.
16:48
Here's a cool character. He goes nowhere.
16:51
Here's an amazing setting, and we drove right past it.
16:55
Yeah, like I it's the it's one of the most frustrating things
16:59
in storytelling and in the World of Warcraft we get that a lot.
17:04
We have like an entire expansion about the Dragon flights, and up
17:10
until this point, Alex Strazza is being like set down left to
17:13
the side and being like, OK, heroes, go deal, go deal with it
17:17
for me. And hopefully with 10.2 now
17:22
being the last raid of the expansion, she's going to get a
17:26
big moment. Everybody loved Zappy Boy
17:32
disappeared off the face of the Earth.
17:34
I was a big Telanji fan. Oh yeah.
17:38
Oh yeah. It's like like the.
17:41
Like if I mention all of these characters, the the typical
17:44
reaction is, Oh yeah, it's like, yeah, that was big, Why didn't
17:50
that go anywhere? Like that's that to me is such a
17:52
thing. Well, even I feel like they they
17:55
just kind of like you say, they leave a lot of loose ends, they
17:58
leave a lot of characters hanging.
18:00
I mean, even with like Nathanos, we had the the big kill scene at
18:04
the beginning of Shadow Lands and then it's an entire
18:07
expansion about dead things and we never see him again.
18:12
The last major character death and they never capitalized on
18:16
it. What?
18:18
Like, and you're going to the land of the dead.
18:20
Like, did he go to Sylvanus? Like did he end up somewhere
18:24
else? Did he like what happened to him
18:27
when he died? He ended up in the in the Maw.
18:30
The jailer kept it hidden from Sylvanus so she never knew,
18:35
right? But we never found out what
18:37
happened to him. Yeah.
18:38
And then and then now she's in the maw.
18:40
That's her thing, right? Like she's trying to like fix
18:43
the mistakes or whatever. Stupid made-up punishment.
18:47
So if she's down there, like, doesn't she get any closure or
18:53
like, I don't know, did they art this him?
18:55
Is he dust now? Like what?
18:57
I don't know. But yeah, there's there's a lot
19:00
of examples of that in Wow, for sure.
19:03
Yeah. And so one of the things that I
19:07
said, and I did say this in fast, this was a recent episode.
19:11
I said that Metzen coming back and being in this new position
19:15
should be a good thing because there is this legacy shadow that
19:21
hangs over everybody. You and I are big fans of World
19:25
of Warcraft. We played it so long, if we got
19:29
control of World of Warcraft, there'd be some things that we
19:32
would be afraid to touch because it's like, oh, like that's kind
19:36
of fundamental. Do we want to, do we really want
19:39
to mess with that? And the designers on the World
19:42
of Warcraft, including the narrative design team, they're
19:45
much the same. They are fans of the game, just
19:47
like you and me. And so there's some things that
19:50
they're hesitant to mess with. But Metzen, it's his baby.
19:55
He does not. He's not afraid of his own
19:57
shadow. And so, like, I think he's going
20:01
to, just like they've been saying.
20:03
He has galvanized the team and I think that's because he has been
20:07
unafraid to say, yeah, we can go there, we can change that, we
20:11
can pull this together, don't worry.
20:13
And maybe that means that some people will see some stuff and
20:16
be like, oh, is that a retcon? Because as they expand like
20:23
this, this saga, they're saying like, oh, we're going to be
20:26
doing stuff. We're looking at doing stuff for
20:27
the next 20 years because we're hitting that 20 year
20:29
anniversary. So we that's going 20 years in
20:32
the future, and in order to do that they need to set some of
20:36
this stuff up. This World Souls saga, while
20:40
pulling together all those various threads that didn't
20:43
amount to anything so far, also needs to like lead towards the
20:48
next saga. Which is really, really
20:53
interesting because like, it's going to be really hard I think,
20:57
for people. I mean outside of the of the of
21:00
the dev team to even really guess where they're going to go,
21:03
right, because they're talking about essentially pulling
21:06
everything together like War Within is looking at the Earthen
21:10
is looking at the Nerubians and then Midnight like I said is, is
21:14
the light and void expansion that we've been expecting for a
21:16
while now. And then we've got the the
21:18
Titan, the last Titan is going to deal with Azeroth and the
21:22
Titans and like all of the it's basically the order expansion
21:26
that again we've been expecting for a while now.
21:28
So I feel. Like all of the things that we
21:32
were expecting or hoping to happen are on this list of these
21:36
three expansions. And there's given the the old
21:40
lore, that's kind of it. You know, like, so I'm sure that
21:46
they're going to, you know, set something up.
21:48
But I feel like this this trilogy like this is.
21:52
The end of Azeroth's story cause a lot of stuff has really
21:57
focused on Azeroth as a Titan at the core of it really.
22:02
And so, like that's, you know why we've got the old gods and
22:06
you know, like just so many things are are centered around
22:11
and even even BFA with the Azerite power stuff, you know,
22:16
all of that was like, well, of course it's the blood of a
22:18
Titan. You know, so there's been a lot
22:20
of stuff that's focused on or a lot of expansions, a lot of
22:23
lore, a lot of everything has focused on Azeroth as the
22:27
world's soul. And this feels like wrapping all
22:31
of that up. So, like, where do you go?
22:34
What do you do? What story do you tell if you're
22:36
not telling Azeroth's story anymore?
22:38
So I'm curious. I'm really curious.
22:41
But like, I have literally no idea where they go after they
22:44
finish that that hot chapter, right?
22:49
I have my tinfoil hat theory. I will point to Shadow Lands and
22:54
talk about the first ones and say that's the next thing.
22:58
Yeah, that could be interesting, yeah.
23:01
But I'm really glad that we're going to have this focus, world
23:04
soul stuff, so that when that comes in, it's not one.
23:07
It's not coming from nowhere because they've set it up before
23:10
2. It didn't completely take over
23:12
everything. Like, we actually got to, like,
23:14
wrap up this story properly. Yeah.
23:19
And it doesn't muddy the water too, right?
23:20
Like if because like we said, there's so many of these like
23:23
expansions that we were expecting all of these threads
23:25
that needed tying up that they seem to be doing with these
23:28
three expansions that they've now announced.
23:30
You know, like if you throw in the first ones from Shadow Lands
23:33
as well, then like, there's just, it becomes too many
23:37
things, right? Like there's too many things
23:39
going on. So if we get everything else out
23:41
of the way, we get the order of the light, the void, everything
23:43
out of the way. And now we've got first ones.
23:44
And that's all we're dealing with.
23:46
And we're dealing with that in a number of different interesting
23:48
ways over the next, you know, however many expansions over the
23:52
next 1020 years, whatever, like, that's very interesting and
23:56
sounds like a lot of fun. I'm just I'm glad that like.
24:00
I'm glad they're fixing the holes in their plot, basically,
24:05
yeah, they're they're creating that new foundation from which
24:08
to leap off into the next part. And so for people wondering when
24:12
are we going to get the next part, one thing that did come up
24:15
in a later in a later panel, Maria Hill, who is one of the
24:21
narrative leads. She said that the expansions,
24:24
while they're coming more quickly because another thing
24:27
that Metzen said was that, oh, we're going to get this story
24:30
out to you more quickly and everything.
24:32
But the Walsall saga is only supposed to last until 2030,
24:39
which is, you know, 2024 is next year.
24:42
When this starts, six years means two years in expansion.
24:46
At least They're not pushing it down to like, hey, every year, a
24:48
new expansion. That's what they were getting
24:52
at, to be honest. I was surprised that the graphic
24:55
where they showed the three expansion logos didn't say
24:58
2024-2025, 2026, because it feels like we've been basically
25:02
getting an expansion every two years already, so it doesn't
25:05
feel like an increased cadence to expansions.
25:08
But that's what Methin made it sound like.
25:09
He's like, no, we're going to get this to you so fast.
25:11
I'm like annual expansions. They've tried that before and
25:15
it's never worked for them. But like, yeah, Dang it, I was
25:18
just a little like, OK, but like, also, I'm kind of not
25:22
liking the shorter expansions where it's like, oh, we're just
25:27
ending things here. It's like that didn't really
25:29
feel like a build up, like Shadow Lands to me.
25:31
Felt like it should have had another tear.
25:33
Yeah, like if it didn't suck. Very, very much so.
25:39
And I mean, yeah, like, so we're probably not actually going to
25:41
see the war within, which is the first of the three until
25:45
probably this time next year, right?
25:47
Like they have 2024. You're right.
25:50
Yeah. So they have the current RAID
25:53
tier that's coming out momentarily, right?
25:57
Like tomorrow it's the patch drops tomorrow as of this
26:03
reporting, and then next week, Yeah, that's when or the raid
26:06
tier starts. Yeah, so then we've basically
26:09
got, you know, the the final raid tier now.
26:11
But then they also said that they're going to do the same
26:13
thing that they did in Shadow Lands and have a tier of the the
26:18
Fancy raids, the Mythic raids. Yeah, the ones where they put
26:22
the fun, the fun and fancy things in so that they're just
26:25
the same, only different, which, yeah, it like, I like those
26:30
victory lap tiers. They're they're a good way of
26:35
like celebrating the expansion and they are shorter.
26:39
They are shorter tiers. We're not going to be spending
26:41
like two months do doing an entire tier of stuff we've
26:47
already done before. It's likely going to be shorter,
26:50
like maybe 6-6 weeks of stuff just for like.
26:53
And I think it's a great time to do it because for people who are
26:57
like, oh, I'm, I'm buying a new expansion to to play the new
27:00
expansion. And they're like, oh, let me run
27:02
through this and like, what was this expansion about?
27:04
It's it's the homage to the expansion.
27:06
It's like, here's this raid that you that we did at the beginning
27:09
and here's this raid that was the mid tier and here's the
27:11
final raid, and we'll make them easier with wacky powers.
27:15
Here's the first tier that we're going to have all of the
27:19
Dragonflight dungeons actually relevant up until they snap
27:26
their fingers and then all of that disappears.
27:29
Because like even with like dungeons coming back regularly,
27:32
they wait a little bit before they bring them back.
27:35
They don't go like, hey, remember that dungeon that you
27:37
did just last expansion? It's back again.
27:39
I hope you enjoy, right? So the Victory Run, I think is a
27:43
fun way of sending off an expansion, giving it its last
27:48
hurrah and that before they put it in the Disney vault, so to
27:51
speak. Honestly, I wish that they did a
27:54
tear like that. That just happened over the
27:57
summer like July and August every year is this is the is
28:01
faded raids because that was such a pain in the butt when you
28:05
were raid leading. Was trying to make sure that you
28:08
had all your roles covered over the summer like everybody is
28:11
busy. It's the summer, especially
28:12
Canadians who want to get outside.
28:14
We only get two months a year. Come on now.
28:18
So I like very, very much so want this to be the summer and
28:21
want this to be every summer, like just stop normal rating.
28:25
Let us have the summer put in faded rates for people who want
28:28
to keep rating but want to do something in game.
28:31
And yeah, that's that's my wish. But I feel like timing wise,
28:36
this time it's probably going to come true.
28:38
Like we'll have faded July and August and then new expansion
28:42
like September. Yeah.
28:44
Yeah. Which is, which is going to be
28:46
great. So beyond like the overarching
28:51
part of it, they talked a little bit about like that, that they
28:56
can actually deliver this because it's like it's fun to
28:58
say, yeah, yeah, this is what we're aiming for.
29:00
There's a lot of question of like, can you actually do that?
29:03
And I think that Dragonflight has sort of shown that they can,
29:09
like we have had a very good cadence where as soon as this
29:16
patch goes live, the next week, the next patch is on the PTR for
29:20
people to test and then that goes live and then the next
29:22
one's on the PTR for people to test.
29:25
And it's been quite good. I just think that the fact that
29:30
they were actually planning it out like, you know, 2-3
29:34
expansions in advance means that the story itself is going to
29:40
actually like hit better. Like we're not going to spend
29:45
like two months in Zeerlec Caverns being like you two need
29:50
to stop bickering because that's not important when you have to
29:53
deal with like setting up the rest of the story.
29:56
And I think hopefully that will mean the story is just like more
30:00
consistent flows better that we don't have so many disjointed
30:04
things where it's like and by the way, we need to finish,
30:07
finish this off because I'm the, I'm the big bad and it's like,
30:10
yeah, but we never understood why you're the big bad.
30:17
Yeah, I feel like they've had a big bad problem in the last few
30:22
expansions. Like BFA, it was like, no, it's
30:25
totally not the Old Gods. Definitely no Old gods here.
30:29
Nope. No Old Gods.
30:30
Oh, it's Old Gods. We got you.
30:33
And then, you know, in Shadow Lands it was like, oh, it's the
30:37
jailer. Oh, he's so bad.
30:39
Oh, you guys don't even understand how bad he is.
30:41
Oh, he's evil. He gets 2 minutes of screen
30:45
time. You know, they've just, they've
30:48
really struggled to, I think with the focus of the
30:52
expansions. And I think that having having a
30:55
set plan, having a trilogy is a really good way to to set things
31:00
up and move things forward in a meaningful way.
31:03
So, Joss, you've been away from the game for a little bit.
31:06
This is like you were saying before we started recording.
31:09
This is being something that's made you want to get back into
31:12
the game and point to launching, launching tomorrow, less than 24
31:17
hours away, right. Do you feel that Farrak has been
31:24
like truly a good, big bad for this expansion?
31:27
I. Don't even know who that is.
31:29
That's what I wanted to hear. I'm sorry guys, I'm biased on
31:32
this. Like, it's just they said that
31:35
when people were asking, oh, who's going to be the big bad of
31:38
this expansion? And this was like, right when
31:42
Dragonfly was launching, they said, OK, at the end of the
31:44
first raid, you're going to find out who the big bad is.
31:50
And Farak is the fire Incarnate of the Three, the earthly, the
31:58
earthy ice, slash, water, and the fire that were released at
32:03
the end of that raid. OK, because I was going to say
32:06
yeah, so I I stopped playing. So for those of you who don't
32:09
know who, maybe you haven't been following me since I left phase.
32:13
I made a baby and so I couldn't raid with my raid team because I
32:18
couldn't stay up. We used to raid from 10:30 at
32:20
night until 12:30 in the morning and I was sleeping.
32:25
At those times, because pregnancy is difficult, so I
32:29
wasn't able to raid with my team and I kind of fell off the game
32:32
after that. So I played the first patch of
32:35
Dragonflight. So I did do the raid that you're
32:38
talking about, Manny, but I never actually killed the final
32:40
boss. And then I came back just to try
32:43
some of the catch up mechanics and do the single player content
32:46
and stuff in the next patch in 10.1.
32:51
And so I saw the cinematic with The three Incarnate People.
32:55
And I was like, oh, OK, so now there's three instead of 1.
32:59
So I knew Razgath and. But then we defeated her at the
33:02
first raid. So then I was like, OK, now
33:05
what? So you're telling me?
33:06
So one of those, one of those dudes is the big bad guy.
33:09
Yeah, the. The fire guy.
33:11
The. Fire guy OK, who fans liked
33:13
because of his temperament. He wasn't like the typical he.
33:18
He wasn't the typical like, oh, I'm super angry guy.
33:22
He was just like he was a he was a bit of a like a.
33:26
Hot head. Not a hot head.
33:27
I don't want to say a hot head. He was a bit of a scoundrel.
33:29
He was like he he was sort of, I mean where he like had a cackle
33:34
and stuff and then Eroticon the stone guy was like the cunning
33:38
planner. And then the the ice one, whose
33:41
name I constantly, constantly screw up and I'm not even going
33:44
to try. She was the cold calculating
33:47
one. Get it?
33:49
Yeah. Anyways.
33:53
See, these characters are so deep.
33:58
I feel bad. We love the depths.
34:00
We love the Wow team. But I mean, some of their
34:02
writing has just not been great. We we give criticism where it's
34:06
due. We give praise where it's due.
34:07
We're not. We're never going to be like
34:08
super one way or the other. But yeah, they they leaned on
34:14
their elements to focus on their expressing their characters.
34:19
So the fire guy like had a fiery kind of personality and he was
34:23
like very like flamboyant. Not really anyways, I just
34:30
wanted to go with that skit. But anyways, they they really
34:35
seem to push, in my opinion, Iridicron as like the big guy.
34:39
There was entire thing of like, oh, Iridicon's hunger and he's
34:43
the one that we're most afraid of and everything.
34:46
And then in 10.1's mega dungeon, they had him working with the
34:53
infinite flight, he he went back in time.
34:58
You defeat him in the first half, but by defeating him, the
35:01
Infinites get to screw up the timeline.
35:04
So you have to go back to the past, kind of not back to the
35:07
future, but back to the past to defeat the Infinites to correct
35:12
the timeline. But in doing so, that means you
35:14
don't actually stop him. So he gets what he was after and
35:19
says like, see you guys, I'm out of here.
35:22
And then he leaves the story, and that leaves the fire guy and
35:28
the ice and the ice Incarnate as the two remaining incarnates the
35:34
ice Incarnate. Some way the Earth guy just
35:37
bounce. He bounces.
35:39
It's like, yeah, I got what I what I came here for.
35:42
My brother's going to go nuts on you.
35:44
You guys are screwed. I don't want to be here to see
35:46
it. Wow.
35:49
Yep. OK, Yep.
35:53
And that was part of like in that patch, the fire act, the
36:00
fire Incarnate. He, like, gets Shadow Flame,
36:04
which is the stuff that made Naltherian kind of evil, like
36:08
touching that Shadow Flame corrupts you.
36:10
And so now he's more powerful, but like, also more more
36:14
vindictive. And his anger is harder to
36:17
harder to control. And that makes his sister, the
36:21
ice Incarnate guy. Like, I can't be a part of this
36:24
anymore. And so she flips sides.
36:26
Wow. And so that's where we're at.
36:28
And I don't think that that is anything that anybody who
36:32
watched that first raid and saw the ending of that first raid
36:36
could have even predicted. The last guy remaining the big
36:39
bad of this this expansion, is the guy that nobody else decided
36:44
to support. But anyways, that's my critical.
36:48
I was going to say I don't even know what to do with that
36:50
information. Yeah, I guess.
36:54
I guess my point is that, like, I did really love playing the
36:57
game and I'm looking forward to getting back into it because I
37:01
feel like with this World Soul Saga that they've just announced
37:05
that they are kind of going back to their roots.
37:08
They're, you know, tying up or answering questions that I've
37:12
had for years and years and years while playing Warcraft so.
37:16
Like, I mean, as much as Dragonfly, I think is the best
37:22
of the last three expansions, that's not a high bar to clear,
37:26
and it definitely wasn't enough to keep me interested.
37:29
I mean, obviously I had different out of wow reasons for
37:33
stepping away, but at the same time like.
37:37
I've had other big things happen in the past and it hasn't been
37:40
enough to tear me away from Wow and so they were making a
37:43
product that was easier to walk away from.
37:45
I'll put it that way and then and this now seems like
37:49
something that is compelling enough to make me want to come
37:52
back. So I think it sounds really
37:55
interesting. I'm really, really excited to to
37:57
start playing the game again. I don't know if I'll actually be
37:59
able to raid, but at least you know getting in there playing
38:02
through the the more single player story related stuff.
38:06
And then, you know, possibly doing dungeons and things like
38:09
that could be really, really fun and interesting.
38:11
So yeah, I'm, I'm excited and I haven't been excited about Wow
38:16
in a while. So I think this was a really,
38:18
really successful BlizzCon for them.
38:20
Yeah, And I think that's the big thing about it.
38:23
As much as I criticize this story in Dragon Flight, I think
38:26
there's been fundamentally some amazing, great changes in Dragon
38:29
Flight. Otherwise I would be in a
38:31
similar situation where I'd be wondering if I'm stepping away
38:33
from the game and I haven't had anything big to pull me away.
38:38
But it might have been similar to you that if there was enough
38:41
of a stress that I I wouldn't have been able to maintain my
38:44
relationship with the game. And I'm really glad that I had.
38:47
It'd be. The first thing to go right,
38:48
like it's kind of occupied that area of my life is like, if I
38:53
got to cut something, this is going to be the thing to go.
38:56
And that given how passionate I had been about the game
38:59
previously, like that, that just felt bad.
39:03
And so the World Soul Saga, the future of World Warcraft looks,
39:08
looks like it's heading in the right direction.
39:10
I'm super happy about that. I know in future episodes I'm
39:14
going to be diving deep into the first chapter, The War Within
39:17
and all the stuff that we're getting there.
39:20
But Joss, like, I'm really happy that you are in the same page
39:24
and you got to sit down and talk with me.
39:26
Like it's great to have you back on the show.
39:27
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
39:29
It's really, really fun. Where can people find you when
39:34
you're not talking about WOW here?
39:36
I think the best place to find me is over on the Gamers Inn.
39:40
So that is my general gaming podcast.
39:42
It's the the one that I'm still doing with Ryan so if you
39:45
haven't checked that out go and and I guess it's gamers in
39:49
podcast.com or you can follow me over on Twitter.
39:52
I'm at Joss plays. That's JOCE plays.
39:56
Until next time guys. You can join the for Asroff
39:59
discord at bit dot LY slash fast discord.
40:02
You can find everything that I do as true villain Manny that is
40:06
true without the E and until next time may all your hits, big
40:10
hits.