Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Wired To Hunt Podcast #177: A CWD Overview, Hunting the Pre-Rut, Debating the Lull & More

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Wired To Hunt Podcast #177: A CWD Overview, Hunting the Pre-Rut, Debating the Lull & More · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyon. This episode number one seventies seven
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: and taking the show, Dan and I are debating the
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: October low. We're talking late October hunting plans, we discuss
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: analyzing specific buck tendencies, and we provide an overview of
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: the latest on c w D. All Right, welcome back
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: to another episode of the one. This isn't Wow, We're
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: gonna starting. We're just starting. I've said the Wild Podcast
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: so many times. Three. Welcome. That's the other show. This
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: is the Weird Hunt Podcast, brought to you by Sik
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: of Gear and thank goodness. Today it's just me and
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Dan because obviously I'm not on my a game. Um,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: but we are going to cover a lot of interesting
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: topics I think and I hope. UM. My thoughts were
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: that we try to cover as much as we can
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: related to what's happening right now and what's coming up
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: in the next week or two in our hunting seasons.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Because the last really since the hunting season has started,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: we've had a guest on every week, so we really
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: haven't got to spend a lot of time diving into
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: our own stuff. You know, we kind of briefly touched
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: on things in the beginning of each episode. So I thought, today, though,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: we're gonna have that time to dive into what we
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: are doing and how that might be able to apply
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: what you're doing in your own spots too. So I
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: want to cover a lot of different topics. I want
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: to talk about our mid October hunts and thoughts and plans. UM.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: I want to move forward into the coming weeks and
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: think about the pre rut late October in the early November,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: what we're gonna be doing. While we're gonna be doing it. UM,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I'll of course be talking about the latest of my
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: hunt for Holy Field. UM. I want to talk to
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: them about analyzing trail camera photos and passed encounters, planning
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: surgical strikes, all that kind of good stuff. And then,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: of course, as we've promised for a few weeks now, UM,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I also want to spend some time reviewing my learnings
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: from the Michigan c w D symposium that we've been
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: promising for a while though. So so I think it's
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: gonna be a good one. It should be a fun
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: one to given this just me and Dan, and we
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: don't need to worry about going off the rails, you know,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: that's kind of what we do when it's just me
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: and Dan. So I don't know, do you think that's
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: that's gonna work out all right, buddy, I think it's
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: gonna work out just fine. Perfect. Um. I want to
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: tell you something I accidentally when texting with a couple
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: of my buddies, couple my other hunting buddies. Um, for
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: some reason, we mentioned your other your podcast, the Nine
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Finger Chronicles, and my phone auto corrected it, and it
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: sent it before I realized the mistake. And now that
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: the auto correction of your podcast is now what I
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: will be only calling your podcast by because it's just
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: perfect your podcast now. And as far as my buddies,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: you know, Ross and Peter and Corey and josh Uh
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: and Andy, we all refer to your show as the
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: nine Ginger Chronicles. That's really how it auto corrected. Oh wow,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: that's actually a decent name. That's pretty pretty appropriate, right right, right,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: So what do you think, man? Would you consider switching it?
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: You know? Maybe, Um, I just got too much time
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: into this one. I can't. It's like it's like my
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: oldest daughter. Yeah, there's times I wish I could give
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: her back, but I you know, I got too much
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: money invested in her, so I got to write her out. Then.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: I just think there's a lot of upside. You're in
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: a miss out on. There's so much potential. There's a
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: whole untapped market of redheads out there who really want
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: to connect with someone in that way. And I feel
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: like the charts when they see the Nine Ginger Chronicles
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: like you would you would capture the redhead market, no
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: questions asked. But what happens if people like mistake it
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: for hunting and it becomes about cooking like gingerbread, about
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: pastries and and that kind of stuff. That's why that's
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: what I don't want to happen. Do Do you have
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: a skill set there? No? I don't. Okay, Yeah, you're right.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I've heard you talk about how you cook venison for sure.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: That's funny. So nine Ginger Chronicles. That's my update for
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: the Like, um, alright, what's new with you? Nothing? Man? Uh?
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: You know, you know, uh, family and work basically uh
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: for this Saturday rained the entire day um in in
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: eastern Iowa and southern Iowa. So I was actually a
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: photographer for a wedding. I do photography on the side
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: and uh so the entire day Saturday, uh, I was
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: gone from the family doing that. And then yesterday, right
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: the best cold front to come through Iowa the entire
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: you know, entire October um mid October. You know it's
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: one of those still catching these deer from a kind
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: of a somewhat consistent bed to feed pattern. Uh and
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: uh I was at home for it. So you know,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: I was gone all day yesterday or on Saturday, and
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: then I um my, like it's just frustrating, right, And
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I know there's so many guys out there that can
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: feel this frustration when you know it is the one
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: of the greatest days of the of the mid to
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: early uh part of the season, and you just can't
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: go out no matter what the conditions are, because the
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: wife is stressed with the kids or you know, other
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: stuff they're gonna be done, and and if you do
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: go hunting, it will result in an argument and you
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: just don't have the energy or want to deal with it.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: And you know, we always talked about picking in your
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: battles and when it comes to our hunting addiction in relationships,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: and I decided to not even fight that battle yesterday
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: and just hang out at home with the kids. So
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: uh so, yeah, that that sucks missing that front. And
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, yeah, as we're as you know,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: but for listeners, we are recording this Monday of this week.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: And um, this cold front that you just talked about,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: it hit yesterday and it and still today and I
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: have heard from so many different people last night or
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: this morning having killed bucks across the country. Um, Lee
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Lakowski just shot a giant um And Don Higgins, who
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: was our guest on episode, did you see this, Dan? Oh? Yeah,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: I saw that. He one of the bucks that he
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: called out. Yeah, he he He killed the buck that
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: he said he was sure he was going to kill
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: when we talked on the podcast. Well he got it done. Yeah,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: So that's crazy. The conditions were right for it, that's
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: for sure. You get this cold front in October and
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: high pressure and a little bit of rain or wind,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: and it's it's a good time to be in the woods.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Like you said, I'll I'll tell you what that not
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: only are if you have a deer on your property. Um,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: you know that are moving it. That would have been
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: a great time to get out there and shoot something. However,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of deer are starting to pop up nocternally too. Um.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: If you had a buck that's let's say, you know,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: um m, I a for the first part of the season.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: You don't know where he's at. It's talking to my
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: buddy Ben Harshein from hunter Maps. He had one of
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: his target bucks that he's been chasing for like, oh
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: three years come back to his farm and it's one
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: of those things like it's automatic every year. This week
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: he came back. I noticed the last time I checked
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: my trail cameras there was a you know, an influx
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: of three year old admit. So things are starting to slowly,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: you know, snowball to the best time of the year. Yeah. Man,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: it's that October ramp up period. I love it. I
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: got a friend who same thing. He said, a buck
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: he was keeping tabs on last year, hoping he'd make
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: it this year, and he just showed up a couple
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: of days ago. And I'm hoping that's gonna be the case. Uh,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: hoping that's gonna be the case. On some of my
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: other spots. But you know what, I want to pause.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Can we pause here? Let's pause because I want to
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: talk about about all this stuff related to what's happening
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: right now and what we're gonna be doing, what our
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: buddies are doing. But absolutely, if we don't stop right now,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: we'll never get to the c w D conversation, right,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: that's right. So we have to talk about this because
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: we've talked about it for two weeks in a row.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: We've like teased it. Um, So I just want to
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: take like ten minutes because you know, it's just something
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: I feel like we always need to make sure this
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: top of mind, that everyone's informed of the right stuff. Um, So,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: chronic way seen disease all. Are you cool of making
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: the shift here? When they do? We have to? Okay,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: we have to, all right, But I guess before we
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: do that, this is probably a good place for us
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: to pause for our sit gear story. So let's do
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: that and then we'll get back to this conversation about
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: c w D. For this week's sit Good Story, we're
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: joined by Clay Forest, who tells us about a bird
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: hunt that's about a little more than killing some doves.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: So I got a phone call from one of my
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: good buddies who has a cornfield behind his house that
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: was just cut and uh he invited me come up
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: dove hunting. So I asked my three year old son
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: if he would like to go with me, and uh,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: he was pretty ecstatic about it. So I got him
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: up at four thirty in the morning. He beat me
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: to the alarm. We got gas station donuts and chocolate milk,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: and uh we went to the to the field of
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: hunts and dove and he uh had a great time.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: We got him a little Mickey mouse chair and we
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: shot a few doves that morning and because the nice, cool,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: cool morning, and uh, we had a lot of fun.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: And uh he really enjoyed it. I mean he was
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: picking up dove, hanging him out, smiling with him, taking
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: pictures with him. Just uh he really seemed to uh
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: to really get into what I was doing and wasn't
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: scared of the shotgun blast or anything, and not scared
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: of picking up a dead dove. And uh we had
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun. He helped me clean them and
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: put him in the put him in the ziplock bags,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: put him in the frazier, and really went through the
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: full experience. So it's something I always remember because it
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: was the first time that I took my son hunting,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: and uh, it's definitely something that's gonna stick with me
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: for a long time. On Clay's hunt, he was wearing
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Sita's Core Lightweight hoodie. If you'd like to create a
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: sikest story of your own, or to learn more about
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Sitka's technical hunting apparel, visit sitka gear dot com. So
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: I went to this Chronic Wasting Disease symposium held in Michigan.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: This is a couple of weeks ago, and it was
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: the first time an event like this has been held,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: like on a national level, even international. There was some
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: people from Norway there as well. Um, the first time
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: something this has been done. I believe it was two
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: thousand and eight. They told me, Um, this is a
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: really big deal. The top researchers from across the country
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: were there. There representatives from many many of the different
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: states that are being impacted by c w D right now,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: many other folks from UM state agencies and conservation organizations,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: and uh even the captive serving industry. There are people
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: kind of from all all sides of this issue were there.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: To talk about number one, what's the lasts on the science,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: what do we know? What do we not know? And
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: then on day two it was taking a look at Okay,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: how do we how are we all trying to combat this,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: what's our game plan to deal with to handle um,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: to try to live with or contain or try to
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: do something about CWD. So that was what I went
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: to and got to listen to with live really interesting conversations.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: So one of the big things coming out of that though,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: was just the fact that all these studies have been done.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Um actually the social side of it, so surveys and
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: things done two hunters in the general public to try
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: to see how well people actually understand CWD, and there's
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: a pretty good, um, there's a pretty good level of awareness,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: like if you don't remember all the specific numbers. But
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: when they surveyed hunters, most hunters had heard of c
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: w D. But after that, there was a ton of
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: people didn't really know the details of it. People didn't
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: really know if it mattered or not. People were unsure
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: of what to do about it, what it meant for them,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: why it was such a big deal. There's a lot
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: of questions there. So it seems that people have heard
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: of this thing, but there's still a lot of misinformation
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: or misunderstanding when it comes to what that actually means
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: for us as hunters, etcetera, etcetera. So I wanted to
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: like run through, like review a high level set of
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: like facts about c w D UM and then touch
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: on a few of the things I learned or that
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: I was reminded of the symposium um and then Dan,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: I guess, as you have questions or thoughts on all this,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: you know, let me know or jump in and I'll
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: see if I can recall anything from from the symposiums
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: that I can share in that front. So sounds good.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: So c w D. C w D is an acronym
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: for chronic wasting disease. It is a disease that's caused
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: by misfolded protein in an animal, in a organism, and
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: they call this a preon p R I O N.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: When you have this missfold the protein, when you have
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: this disease is essentially an attack on the brain the
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: neural um system within a deer or other species that
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: might have this disease, and it is always fatal. C
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: w D is transmitted both directly and indirectly via the environment.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: So what that means is a direct transmission of c
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: w D is something that can happen between deer to deer,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: so by saliva, blood, feces, urine um, anything like that,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: when another infected animal, when an affected animal comes in
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: contact with a noneth acted animal and those things transfer,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: there can be a transmission of the disease um indirectly,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: CWD can be passed on because these preons or prions
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: can be shed from an animal that has cw D,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: and by that it means they can essentially go and
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: get to any place that deer has been, so there
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: can be infected prions. There can be these misfolded proteins
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: leftover on plants or water holes or mineral licks or
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: just the dirt um you know, where deer feeding or
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: laying anything like that, and animals can pick it up
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: by coming into contact with those external environmental things as well.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: So it's it's a disease that can be transmitted in
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of different ways and you can't get rid
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: of it. It's it's nearly it's almost impossible to get
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: rid of these preons once they're on the ground or
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: on a surface or in a you know, in a
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: pile of mud or whatever it might be. So for
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: those reasons, it's really concerning because if you get it
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: where you're at, if you get in your property or
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: your counting or your eight, it's it's nearly impossible to
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: get rid of it. Um. There's a question asked to
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: a panel that basically said, you know, are there any
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: examples of an area you know up CWD getting established
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: in an area and then seeing that, you know, the
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: level of infection go down. And the researchers there said, no, there,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: it's it's never happened if CW gets an established in
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the spot right now, we've not found an example of
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: it being eliminated or dealt with. It's it's been slowed.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: It's been um maybe what's the right word, stabilized in
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: a in a way, so it's not so the infection
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: right across an area or population isn't growing dramatically. There's
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: been a few instance instances like that, like in Illinois. Um,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: but if it's there, if it gets established, you're just
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: not going to get rid of it. At least we
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: haven't figured out how to get rid of it yet. Um.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: There's been like some a couple rare cases where like
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: one infected animal has been found and then if that
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: animals like quickly killed one or two animals quickly killed.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Like There was an example discussed in New York where
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: this happened maybe eight or nine or ten years ago.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: They said they found an isolated case, they got rid
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: of that animal, and it must have been a situation
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: where that was the only animal that had been effecting
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: so far, and they have not detected it anywhere else
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: yet around there. But long story short, if you don't
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: have c w D, you don't want to get it,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: and if you do get it, you need to take
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: it seriously. UM. The issue, as we've talked in past episodes,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: is that it's easy for people to underestimate c w
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: D because you don't see the impacts of it as
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: noticeably as something like e h G epizoodic hemorrhagic disease,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: which is what many hunters have experienced, you know, back
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: in twos and twelve or thirteen and even this year, UM,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: where these deer in a small localized area can get
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: e s G and you can wipe out a significant
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: number of the deer in an area. You know, fifties
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: of all the deer in a little nook and cranny
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: or a little nook you can get killed, you know,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: in a summer, in a late summer. That's not how
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: CWD works. CBD incubates an animal for a relatively long time,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: and it moves somewhat slowly through hert as well. Um,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: but it is always fatal. So if a deer contracts
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: c w D, if it doesn't die of some other cause,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: you know, by getting killed by hunter in its first
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: year or getting hitting by a car or something, it
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: will eventually be killed by c W It isn't always
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: fatal disease. Now here's something that I did not know though. Um.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: There are three different genotypes in and this is as
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: I as I understood, as I recall from from the speakers.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: There are three different genotypes seen in typical white tail populations,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: and a genotype effect essentially is just let's call it
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: like a genetic um type. So there's three white tail
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: within any set of white tailed deer like behind you know,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: your house, Dan, or my house in Michigan, wherever it is.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: When you look at all the deer behind your house,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: there's gonna be the kind of broke into three different categories.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: One category one genotype is about a d percent of
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: most deer are going to be this genotype, and they're
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: the most impacted by c w D. They contracted the
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: easiest and the quickest, and they're the fastest to die
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: from it. You've got a second genotype, which is you know,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: it's a much smaller proportion of your deer heard maybe
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: it was something like ten percent of the deer out
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: there are this of this type and that type. It
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: takes a little bit longer for those deer to get
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: c T b D and they live a little bit
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: longer with it. And then finally there's this final genotype,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: this final category of deer out here, and that's a
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: very miniscule number of deer have this, but they are
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: the most resistant to CWD. So there are some of
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: these deer that can live a much longer time without
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: getting it, even if it's in the area, and if
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: they do get it, they can survive a much longer time.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: That was interesting, but I never knew that there was
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: these different genotypes that are impacted by c w D
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: in different ways. So there's a lot of questions. There
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: was a there was an expert there on the genetic
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: side of things, and he was looking at what does
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: this mean. Are we gonna see some type of short,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: sped up version of evolution at some point where that
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: genotype that is more resistant, Um, nature selects for that
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: more often because of CDD. There's a whole bunch of
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: questions that there wasn't really any clear answers, but interesting um.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: The point being, c w D is going to impact
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: a deer and kill it if it gets that disease.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Another interesting thing I found is that the key thing
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: to think about here that makes it different from e
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: h D. Like I said, e h G can knock
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: out a herd or knock out significant numbers of deer
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: right away. C w D takes a much longer time
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: to do so, but it can have and does have
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: population level impacts. It just takes a while for that
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: to happen. But once it happens, different than the h D,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: it's going to keep happening over and over and over
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: and over again because it's something you're not getting rid of.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: So you know, when you get a bad outbreak for
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: e h D in Iowa, you b lose a bunch
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: of deer. This year, but the next year things come back.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: The year after that, things come back, the year after that,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: things come back. If you get c w D in
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: your area, and you reach a high enough infection rate
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: in your females, you're gonna start noticing declining deer populations
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: that are almost irreversible as far as as far as
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: we know so far. So we're seeing population impacts like
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: that out in Wyoming. In Colorado, I believe, where they
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: have been where they first discovered CWD, and they've been
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: tracking for the longest, we're seeing deer herds declining now
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: year after year because of that, And a researcher professor
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: from Wisconsin said that there are parts of Wisconsin now
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: that have had CWD long enough, the infection rates are
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: getting high enough that probably within five years there will
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: be parts of Wisconsin that are gonna be seeing a
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: noticeably declining dear population. Pointed you know, specifically because of
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: c w D and that infection rates about when of
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: your female deer are infected, that's when this kind of
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: thing starts happening. So that's a serious scare um obviously,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: that makes an impact to deer hunters. If your dear
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: populations start going down, of course, but then there's always
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: other concerning things when it comes to c w D.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: So number one potential risk is that if it gets infected,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: if your dearer gets infected enough for a long a
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: period of time, you can start having a declining dear her.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: That's number one. Number two question, quick question before you
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: get into number two. Can a dough with c w
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: D get you know, get pregnant and does she pass
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: c w D onto her newborn or is that something
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: that the newborn has to pick up? Yeah, great question.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: It was something. It was something that I did not
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: know before I went to the symposium, but we did
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: hear all about this. Yes, there's several different ways that
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: a new that that a doe can give c w
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: D two its offspring. Number one, it can transmit c
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: w D in utero, so while that faun is still
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: in the dough, it can catch it can essentially be
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: infective with c w D. Not always, but it can.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: And cw can be transferred to all sorts of different
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: things within the the fetal ecosystem. I'm not sure what
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: to call it, but um so, yes, it can, it
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: can get it that way. Or number two, it can
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: catch after being born, simply because of all that direct
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: contact with an affected deer. And then also you see
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: an increased um rate of infection within dope family groups
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: simply because of that, because these deer are very close
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: to each other all the time, touching each other, laying
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: in the same area as etcetera, etcetera. UM, So that's
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: a scary thing too. Um. Interestingly though, males have a
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: three to four times higher infection rate than females. That
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: was a note I took from one of the conversation
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: or one of the speakers. Um. But yeah, definitely lots
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: of ways these these deer can can transfer the disease. Unfortunately,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: now CW impacts deer populations or definitely will if given
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: enough time without controlling them. The next question is can
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: cb the impact humans. To this point, it has not
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: been shown to jump from deer to humans. They have
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: not been able to show anything like that happening, but
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: there is They can't say it's impossible. There's there's a
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: lot of questions still around it. It definitely has been
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: shown to jump to other species. So there's been different
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: lab tests and things done where they've shown the CWD
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: has jumped to other ungulates that has been shown to
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: jump to cats, and there's been a couple of recent
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: studies with monkeys UM, one being spider monkeys, one being macaques.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: I believe it's how you pronounce it UM. And they
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: had a number of different ways they were testing how
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: this transfer could happen UM, and some of these tests.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: In some of these tests they would UM input some
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: infected material directly into the brain of one of these
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: animals and see if they could get it that way.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: And some of them they would feed an animal infected
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: tissue and see if they would get it that way,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: and others they tried like cutting an animal and then
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: putting infected material in that cut. UM. So there's some
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: questions around whether or not the monkey studies UM actually
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: are legitimate, if they actually would simulate UM a real
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: world situation, So that there's a lot of question marks
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: around that still. But the long story short is that
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: there has been some ability to jump species, so that
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: is that is a possibility. It does happen. UM has
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: not been shown to happen with humans yet, but you
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: still don't necessarily want to risk it. It's still like
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: a concern that someday maybe we'll be shown to happen UM.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: So for that reason, the Center for Disease Control does
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: recommend that if you are in a CW deposit area
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: potential positive area, you really need to get your dear tested.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: And they've now most recently, I think this just happened
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: after these monkey studies came out. Even though they're kind
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: of maybe on conclusive inconclusive UM, they've now said that
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: they do not recommend eating CWD positive animals. UM. Now
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: here's another thing to think about is that while CB
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: has not been shown to transfer to humans yet, UM
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: and suppose, but you know it's it's not happening over
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: in the UK UM. When there was this whole outbreak
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: of mad cow disease UM also scientifically known as and
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: I'd just like to say this word because it's it
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: rolls off the tongue nicely. The technical term is bovine
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: sponge offm and cephalopathy. I had to write that one down.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: UM that was shown to jump to humans in a
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: variant of christ Felt Yakub's disease, which is a human
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: version of this type of UM disease. So if it
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: was able to jump from cows to humans by eating beef,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: UM could something similar which CWD is somewhat similar to
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: b SC be could something like that happened to So
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: the point of the all being said is that while
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: it hasn't been proven to happen yet, we should be
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: taking it very seriously because it's certainly not um possibility.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Another thing that should be concerning is that CWD has
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: been shown these prions, these infected disease produs, have been
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: shown to be able to be taken up into plants.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: So the prion falls onto or is input into wheat
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: or some other kind of plant on the landscape. UM.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I can't remember all the specifics here, so don't quote
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: me on these specifics. But there are a number of
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: studies done in laboratory environments that show that certain plant
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: species can take these prans up into the root system
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: or the branches or the stems. UM. So that has
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: a bunch of very scary implications if this ever started
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: happening in a real world environment too. I think you
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: can you can just um look at that and strapolate
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: that out and see, like there's some scary ideas there
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: if that ever happened. Um, if all of a sudden,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: your corn could somehow transfer these prions to end users. UM. Now,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: none of these things are happening in the real world yet,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: but tests have shown like there's this possibility. Um. So
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: all this is to say that even though c w
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: D may be in your area and you're not seeing
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: a bunch of dead deer because of it, um or
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: CWD has been in Wisconsin for you know, fifteen years
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: or whatever is now, and you're still killing good deer
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: and stuff. Um it is something that you just can't
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: ignore because there's all these possibilities that are concerning and
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: there are some things that are coming in the sooner
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: short term future as far as population level declines that
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: are going to happen, that are happening. So I bring
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: this all up because a couple of things need to
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: be I think reaffirmed for the white tail hunting community.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Number number one. CWD is a real thing. This isn't
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: a government conspiracy. This isn't something about politics. This isn't
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: something that's being pushed on you by your state agency
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: or by the car insurance companies or something sailing like that.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Is a real thing. There are real scientists who do
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: not have political biases, who don't have any kind of agenda.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: People that are just doing real science that are showing
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: this is a real issue. So we need to take
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: that seriously as well. Number two, Since we need to
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: take it seriously, there's a couple of things that we
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: as hunters need to be serious about following. A couple
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: of guidelines that we need to be serious about following.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: If you're in a CB depositive area, most state I
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: think probably all state agencies now, but I uh, state
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: agencies in those areas typically are telling hunters that you
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: really need to get your dear tested. And I believe
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: this is a number just for Michigan. UM, but in
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: the CW deposit areas in Michigan, they showed UM a
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: survey show the only forty seven percent of people that
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: are killing deer in that area are actually bringing them
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: in to get checked in and tested. That's a horrible
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: UM what's the word I'm looking for. I don't know.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: It's a horrible number of people actually follow me through
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: and what they're supposed to be doing there. So get
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: your act together, guys, like we need to get these
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: things tested. We need to help the state agencies monitor
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: what's happening, and also for your own health, it's good
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: to know whether these deer that are getting shot our
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: CW depositis so get tested. Number Two, follow the local laws.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: If if baiting or minerals or whatever and feeding has
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: been banned where you're at, you gotta take it seriously.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: It's not just the state agency trying to make your
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: life a pain in the butt. They're doing this for
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: a reason. Follow those rules. This is a serious issue.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Number two. Probably one of the most important things right
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: now is that most of the UM, most of the
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: spread of chronic wasting disease across the country has been
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: tied to the transfer of either live animals or animal parts.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: As a hunter, you probably have nothing to do with
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: the transfer of live animals. That's a deal with the
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: servant industry, the captive servant industry. That's a whole another conversation. UM,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: that stuff needs to be regulated, needs to be dealt with.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: But from a hunter standpoint, something we do probably UM
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: have some culpability for is this transfer and transportation of
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: dead animal parts. So this is killing a back in
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Iowa and driving into Michigan with that dead deer in
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: the back of your truck. That is illegal now, UM
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: in many states, doing that taking a deer body or
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: portions of the body across state lines is something that
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: you cannot do legally anymore because of the worry of
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: transferring that CW deposit material um. So now in the
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: state of Michigan, it used to be just that you
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: couldn't do that if you kill a deer or an
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: animal in a CW deposit state. So if that situation
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: I said, like, if you're killing in in uh Missouri
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: CW DEPOSITI state, bring it back to Michigan. You can't
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: do that. Now it's any state. At least the Michigan
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: law is that if you kill another deer, or if
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: you kill a deer another state, any other state, regardless
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: of whether they have CWD or not determined yet, you
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: can only bring de boned meat um, a cleaned hide, um,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: a clean skull cap, and antlers. So basically you need
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: to figure out how to keep out your dear, how
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: to clean your deer, how to butcher your deer, where
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: you're at where you kill that deer, or you need
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: to get a tax of dermist or meat processor to
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: help you with those things. You can't just throw that
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: thing in the back of the truck. Come back home.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: If your state doesn't have that kind of guideline, if
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: you still can bring deer across state Steve lanes, excuse me,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: state lines. The recommendation is simply to be smart about
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: how you dispose of those parts. Don't just you know,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: butcher your deer and then throw the spine and skull
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: and everything just back behind the house and a pile.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: And you know potentially that if that deer was cw
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: deposit and you drop that stuff off behind the house,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you could have just introduced c
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: w D to a totally new place. So talk to
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: your state agency or someone to fire out what the
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: right way is to dispose of those things. And maybe
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: it's bearing it, maybe it's I don't I don't know
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: what the proper way is, um, but figure that out
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: for your area. Make sure you are not unknowingly, you know,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: proliferating something that can really seriously impact where you're at
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: and the future of hunting in this country. UM So
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: that's my my high level CWD reminder. I would just
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: encourage you all to to learn more about it, to
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: stay up on it, to you know, to not let um. Oh,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you call it kind of like, um,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: c w D fatigue impact you, right, because like when
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: CWD first starts show up in white Tails in the
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: early two thousands in Wisconsin, there's lots of articles, lots
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: of people talking about it, people are taking it seriously.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: But then over the years people kind of kind of
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: tired of it. We've heard people ranting about cwt for
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: so long. Now it's not that big of a deal.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, but we have
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: to listen, we have to take it seriously. Um. We
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: can't just pretend it's not happening and try to live
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: live our lives just you know, continue on without actually
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: trying to do the right things to deal with this
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: as best as possible. Um. So that's my my rant
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: for the day. And I just want to add something
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: real quick, be aware of where you're getting your information,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: because social media is probably not the best place to
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: get educated on c w D. And the reason for
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: that is is I'm going to chalk this up to
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: a learning experience. Reading a headline and then assuming that hey,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: c w D is making the jump to humans, right,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: which it is not currently making the jump to humans,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: but this article, you know, it's one of these articles
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: that it's worded so that you would click on it,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: basically click bait, and then you get in there and
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: you start reading. But I didn't, you know, I felt
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: victim to this, and it's honestly embarrassing to say, but
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: I went, holy sh it, c w D made the
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: jump to humans. And and then I, you know, I
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: went back and I read the article. But if someone
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: didn't read the article or didn't go that one step
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: further than you, then we've created a rumor mill. And
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: once that uh hits, then we know that non hunters
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: may hear that, and then it's like whoa wait a second,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: all dear or bad or the wrong kind of people
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: here at Like, let's say a rumor gets spread about
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: how c w D can make the jump to livestock
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: or two egg and when that happens, or if that happens,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: deer hunting goes bye bye, because obviously there's more value
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: in egg and livestock than there is the white tail. Yeah. Yeah,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: we gotta pay attention to it. We need to, like
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: you said, make sure we're educated on it, be aware
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: of the right sources there. There's so much bologna. These
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: days on Facebook that people believe and that people share
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: around and like, did you look at the source of
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: this material? Like I see the Facebook posts with like
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: photoshop pictures of something going on, like people getting all
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: outraged in the comments section. I'm like, this is bo ugus.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: There's so much bologna out there. So so take a
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: second to think about that. Is this a reputable source,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: is this science based or is this you know, someone
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: who just has an agenda who's ranting about their take
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: on it but really can't point to the real stuff
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: going on here. Um, I think it's it's very clear
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: when you get the best people in the world on
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: this issue talking about it, it's very clear. This is
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: an issue. This is a real thing. This is a
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: new disease. This isn't something that's been around forever that
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden we just really realize it is around.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: So some people have made that claim, they said, well,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: this is this has been around forever, we just just
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: recently noticed it. It's not a big deal because it's
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: been around for so long. Everyone's just you know, making
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: it up to be more than it is. Um. That
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: question was asked and when the panel discussions, they said no,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: we don't believe that's the case because when we find
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: c w D, when we first identify c w D
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: in in an area, the way the disease moves through
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: the herd and the way the animals UM react to
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: it is spot on exactly with what you see with
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: all new diseases popping up in an area, Like this
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: is what happens when a disease, when a new disease
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: comes into an area, This is not what it looks
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: like if a disease is in an area forever. So
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: so this is just something we gotta we have to
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: look at as um as as realists and look at
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: the practical implications of it and make sure we're doing
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: what we count as hunters to move in the right
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: attraction right. Absolutely. And then for me it's also I
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: don't want to I don't want to like stand on
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: a stoapbox box and preach, but I don't think that
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: the hunting industry itself and the people who are in
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: quote unquote leadership roles within the hunter hunting industry UM
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: are are literally doing enough UM. And there are people
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: in the hunting industry who are part of that group
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: who think that c w D is a joke or
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: it's not to be taken serious, and that is a
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: that's a bad thing because those they're telling their followers,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't worry about c w D. It's
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: gonna you know that it's been around forever, or it's
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: not it's not serious. Then we have these people spreading negative,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: a bad, bad information, and that pisces me off. Yeah. Man,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of that is disappointing, But I think
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: you know it, just take a second when you hear
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: something about c w D or anything really in the
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: world today, take a look at that person who you're
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: hearing this from that resource. Again, look at your source.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Is this a real source that's looking at you know,
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: real data, real research, real science, or is this uh
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Joe blow crazy guy who's just saying stuff or someone
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: who has an agenda or who has you know, there's
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: some behind the scenes motivation for him not to want
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: you to think cw CWD matters. So I I certainly
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: do not claim in any way to be an expert
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: on this topic. I'm not a scientist, I'm not a researcher.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: But all I'm trying to do here is is relay
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: the information I got from those people who really really
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: do know that they spend their entire lives looking into
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: this stuff. And um, it's no joke. So real quick,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: we're did they say how this disease came to be?
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, is it is it part of an evolutionary
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: process or is it actually you know, just like pop
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: it came up? And because didn't it start in mule
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: deer they first they first found it? Yeah, and mule
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: deer populations in in Wyoming or Colorado, one of those
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: two states. And and no, there did not seem to
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: be an answer as to how how it first comes about. Um,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: it's likely from if I remember right, I think there
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: are some hypotheses around it likely being like a freak
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: mutation of a of a protein, and that you know,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: once that happens, then it can be transmitted. It's just
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: gone from there. And then you see, you know, it's
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: not like something that has just started in one place
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: and slowly spread into a massive mebook crossing the country.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: It goes in one spot. And then you can see
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: how when we're transferring an animal excuse me, transferring animal parts,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: you just see these random spots popping up all over
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: different parts of the country where you've got, you know,
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: a shipment of deer, or someone brought a dead deer
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: carcuss across or different things like that. Many times it's
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: centered around these captive servit locations. I don't think that's
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: the case pent of them, but I know that many
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: times that's been what's happened. UM, Or at least that's
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: what I remember hearing. Was there anybody from the servit
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: industry that spoke. There was someone there from the industry,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: but they were there the second day and I was
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: not there for that discussion, So I was there for
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: the first day of the whole research day. I didn't
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: hear what he had to say. UM. I did hear
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: from them a couple of years ago at the National
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: North the North American Deer some a couple of years ago,
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: and the same guy was there at that time, UM,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: and in his angle was, yeah, we think it's a
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: serious thing to UM. That's why you know, animals are
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: getting tested in our facilities, etcetera, etcetera. UM, But you know,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: wild animals are just as much as a problem as well. UM.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: The interesting thing about CWD tests right now is there
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: is no such thing as a negative result. So if
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: we're testing an animal, whether it be a dead animal
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: or live animal. Um, so what does that? I think
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: it's called postmortem or prewartum or I don't know what
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: they called it. But um, you can get a positive results,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: so you can say, yes, this dear is positive for
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: CWD or you get a UM. I can't remember how
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: they particularly phrase. It was like unconclusive or not. It
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: was either positive or not positive. But that doesn't mean
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: that it's negative. It just means we couldn't detective being positive.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: But it's not a guaranteed negative. UM. So that's a
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: whole another concerning thing too. So you can get you
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: can get false positives or you can not detect it,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean that deer doesn't have it. It's
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: just simply we haven't been able to get on positive
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: or negative test. It's it's positive or not detected, which okay,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: hopefully it's not positive, but we're not sure. Right. So
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: that's that's the scary thing because let's say they find
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: out a new way of doing it and then they realize, uh,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: now there's way more dear that have it right than
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: what we think. Right, So there's lots of question marks,
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: still lots of um. You know, just there's just we
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: need to pay attention. To the point of me saying
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: all these things that we just need to take it seriously.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: We need to pay attention, We need to stay educated,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: and we need to support our state agencies when they
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: try to make the right decisions to help us manage
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: to manage the issue in an area. So I don't
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: have all the answers. I don't know if anyone does,
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: but but if nothing else, we just need to be supportive.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: We need to pay attention, and we need to not um,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know, not bury our heads in the sand.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about fun stuff they do. I'm down for
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: that because we we had a good ten fifteen minutes
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: here of of a downer on c w D. But um,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: there's good there's good news in the world too. There's
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: good news in the world too. It's deer hunting season.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: First cold front. First good cold front at least for
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: a lot of areas of the country just passed through
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: here yesterday and today. So that's exciting. Um, you were
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: saying that Ben got his big buck on camera or
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: that pork? Is that that one? Yep? Yep? Then got
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: his He sent me, Oh, I don't know if I'm
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: supposed to share that information or not, but I just
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: did so. So uh yeah, a buckets he's been hunting
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: for a while. Uh, showed back up on the farm,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: um that he actually hit last year and it ended
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: up surviving. And then um uh, just like many of us,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: you know, you think about that deer the entire rest
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: of the year, and finally he showed back up on
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: trail camera basically on an annual pattern. So, so you
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: haven't hunted since the last time. You had that like
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: really good sit last weekend right where you saw that
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: nice buck right right. What's what's your game plan moving forward? Though?
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Do you have Do you have plans? It's like coming
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: with Well, here's the thing, like I'm debating with myself
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: on how I want to handle this, Like you ever
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: have have you ever done something because you've been pressured
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: into it and it ended up being maybe like a
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: negative like hey man, you should drink one more beer
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: and then you puke all over Been there, okay? Or
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: something like that. I saw along those lines. Um, so
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: you know this whole talk about this October lull, right,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: like we kind of have different views on it. I
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: do not. I don't believe in the October lull. I
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: think it's it's dumb, and I mean in a way,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: there's just a little bit of a different, different thought
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: on that. It comes down to an issue of semantics.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: I think it's like how we're talking about it. But
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: let's let's argue this one out a little bit though,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: because I do take issue, not take issue, but I
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: disagree with you maybe a little bit, even though I
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: think we really do agree. But when you say the
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: October law is is BS, it is in a way BS,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: but it is also not in a way BS. Because
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: let me give you my perspective at least, and then
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: you can tell me if you agree to disagree. The
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: October law is not a biological reality. Research has shown
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: that buck activity steadily increases throughout the month of October.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: So there is not an actual October law that is
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: happening because of biology. But many hunters experience in October law.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: And I'm saying that this is this is a this
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: is a reality that many people experience. But it doesn't
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: have to be that way. Doesn't You don't have to
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: experience in October law. But many hunters do. So my
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: point is, Okay, yeah, if you're experiencing in October lull,
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: here's why that might be happening. Here's what you can
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: do to change that. Um And here's why I think
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: you may be experiencing a lull at this time of year.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Number one, because maybe the hunting pressure in your area
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: has increased, which many cases is many times is the case,
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: as hunting seasons opened in early October late September. Now
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: these deer are changing their behavior because of that that
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: hunting pressure or food sources have changed. So beings of
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: matured and are getting harvested. Corns turn and brown acorns
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: are dropping all their soft mass, trees are dropping, so
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: there's all this influx of different types of food sources
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: that might change dear behavior. Leaves are falling, the available
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: cover is changing. So you've got these three changes in
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: the white tailed woods that are causing dear to change
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: where they spend their time, how they spend their time,
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: and maybe how much time they spend during daylight. Those
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: things are all changing in and around early to mid October.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: So for the guy that doesn't know those things, the
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: guy girl who doesn't know those things, or the guy
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: girl who doesn't know to properly adjust to those things,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: he's probably experiencing October law. He's hunting a spot, he
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: hasn't adjusted properly, he's not seen dear, and he's just
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: making things worse for himself later in the year. For
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: that guy or girl, the October law is real and
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: we need to either say, hey, here's here's why and
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: how to change it. Or if you don't know those things,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: if you're not able to adjust, then yeah, you might
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: want to follow the usual October law advice, which is
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: to stay out, be careful, because if you can't properly
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: adjust for those shifts, you are making things worse. Um.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: That is my take on the quote unquote October lull.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: I think you agree with all that, don't you. Yeah, yeah,
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: I agree with it, except you know, back to the
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: semantics part of it. I agree with it. But just
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: like the lull, just stop calling it that. I mean.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: I don't want to. I don't like every time I
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: even say that word, I get a little cringe in
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: my stomach because it's like it's calling something something that
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: it's not what I mean, I do know what It
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: pisces me off because because then there's other guys who
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: will sit out there and defend it, like, hey man,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: I only have twenty acres, so I definitely see a lull. No,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: you don't, that's not a lull. Right, Just because you
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: have only twenty acres to hunt, that doesn't mean there's deer.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: It probably means that you went in there too hot
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: and heavy and bumped them out, or like we like
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: we've already discussed, there's a change in in something. Deer
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: are out there, deer are moving, Go find them and
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: then set up on them. Boom done. Next topic. But
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: what if um is that the right? Is that the
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: right recommendation? Because if if um, if such and such
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: person who is who has historically experienced a lull, So
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: whether you like it or not, people call it that.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: So I simply I simply say, okay, let's if if
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: people are going to continue to stay out ober law,
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: which it's just it's entrenched in dear culture. It's a
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: word that's out there. My at least my thought has been, yes,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: I will use that word because it's a trigger word
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: gets people's attention. But then once they click into it,
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: or they hear you say it or whatever, then you
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: can educate them on the reality of it. Um. But
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: that said, let's say there's someone who has experienced a
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: law and you say to them, no, there's not a law,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: go in there and find them, right? Is that good
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: advice for someone who hasn't already prepared for this, who
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: doesn't know how the deer react, who doesn't know how
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: they're shifting, to just go in and walk around blindly
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: to find this at this time of year, I'm gonna say,
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: in a way, you have to. And the reason because
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: of that is, how do you know what you're actually hunting, right,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: unless you're just going out there to hunt? And like
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: for me, I'm after a certain uh category of animal right. Um,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: my goal is to harvest a four year old. So
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: in order for me to do that, I have to
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: know where some of these deer are at. And one
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: way to do that is to go in and set
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: up observation stands and locate where these animals are, or
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: run trail cameras and locate, you know, locate them that way.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: I guess, I guess the I guess there's a negative
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: connotation with the lull and here, you know, I mightna
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: get crucified for saying this is people who have not
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: been successful. I think there is a lull. Does that
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: make sense like they're using this as an excuse excuse, Yeah,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: well not necessarily. I mean for this time of year.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: So hey, there's a law. It's the lull. I gotta
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: stay out. Well, if you don't know what you're deer
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: doing anyway, you know, what's what's the point? You know,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: we all know that saying you can't kill him if
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: you're sitting on the couch. So if you've never tried
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: to hunt this time of year and you use that
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: as the excuse, then that that's what. That's bad practice
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: in general for anything, you have to experience failure in
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: order to be better. And if you've failed so much
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: this time of year by going in and locating them
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: or or hunting, you know, doing you know, going in,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: then that's fine. You've learned, just like I've learned that
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: next weekend it's supposed to be seventy five degrees. I
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: know that you're going to be moving nocturnal and unless
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: there's a reason for me to go out there and hunt,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to jump into my best spots. It's
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: not because there's a lull. It's because the information provided
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: to me is telling me what I should or should
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: not do. So you don't think, well, would you disagree though,
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: that the average amount of buck activity is better on
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: November second than it is on October typically? Yep? Absolutely?
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: And then would see And then you also just said
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: that you would rather you know that buck activity on
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: average might be better on a day of a coal
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: front versus a day of seventy degrees? Would you agree
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: with that that one more time? Would you? Would you
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: rather hunt a big coal front day, a day or
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: two after coal front versus hunted random day when it's
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: seventy or seventy grees or something like that where it's
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: been hot for a while. Right. So, so simply, what
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to establish is that there are certain days
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: that are better to hunt, and you would you would
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: usually try to plan your best hunts. You're going to
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: your better spots on the days that are better, right,
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: And that could be either a weather factor or it
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: could be a date of the calendar factor. Right, right?
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: So would it not the necessarily bad advice for people
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: that if you don't have a cold front in mid October,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: if you don't have something that's really going to get
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: deer movement exceptionally well, and you don't have the intel
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: if you don't know how the shift is happening, and
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: you don't think that you can in some type of
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: low impact way discover that maybe in those situations, it
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: is better to hold off until the date on the
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: calendar tells you that your odds are higher. Um, then
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: they might be right now, even though yes, if you
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: go you can find there are you're moving right now.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: But if you don't know where they're moving, if you
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: don't have good conditions that might tip the odds in
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: your favorite little bit, you might be making things worse
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: for yourself. Um. Otherwise, right, yep, I agree, I I
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: agree with everything you've said. However, when when it comes
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: time to locate a deer, right, you're not going to
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: locate a deer sitting on a field edge in you
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: know when this when this shift is happening, right, Um,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: you're not gonna So I guess what I'm saying is,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: don't be afraid to fail. I mean, unless you know
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: your property, unless you've been hunting a proper certain properties
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: for like, um, I don't know, you know, ten fifteen
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: years and you know, or even a year right and
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: you you've really found out what these deer are doing.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: It's definitely okay. But what I'm saying is you're gaining
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: nothing sitting on the couch this time of year if
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: you don't know what your dear hurt is doing, if
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: you don't know what the deer you're chasing or doing,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: because then you're going in what I feel is one
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: step behind in the rut, and then you're playing. Then
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: you're playing catch up on the other side of things.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: You might be going in there and educating deer right now,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: and then you're not enjoying the full impacts, the positive
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: impacts of the rut, because you've bumbled around telling every
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: deer the hey, I'm in the area. Right There's there's
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: that chance, But I don't think the guy who I
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: guess I'm a little bit more aggressive than most when
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: it comes to I guess it's stylistic than at this
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: point right where I feel. And again, I you know,
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: this all comes back down to how much property you have, man,
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: I have I have a couple of thousand acres, but
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: I don't own it, I don't lease it, So in
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: a way I'm kind of in the same boat as
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: some of the other guys that are out there. I
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: just I don't like excuses, and I don't like someone saying, hey,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: all I have is twenty acres Well, you can have
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: twenty acres um, But who I mean is that because
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: every other person and has told you know that you
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: know to hunt, you know whether the drive I mean
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: it kind of from this point it goes on to
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: a bigger you know, those topics that we have for
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: almost every episode, right it can it can spend spent
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: off to that. I'm just I'm just saying, don't be passed.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: Don't be afraid to be aggressive this time of year too,
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: because they're they're still out there. Yes, the value may
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: maybe a little the value of that hunt maybe a
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: little different. But if I get the opportunity to go
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: out and hunt next weekend, and I'm debating going out
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: and doing this just because I want to prove a point.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: I want to have an encounter so bad because I've
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: I've had encounters in the past with mature deer this
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: time of year, whether it's seventy five degrees or a
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: cold fronts come through, I want to you know, it's
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: okay to be It's okay to be aggressive this time
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: of year, and the deer are out there and they
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: are moving. You can't you can't. You can't locate a
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: deer if you're not in the timber. Yeah, that's true.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: I think. I think though, a really important point you
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: made there was what I'm on the ground you're working with.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: If I had thousands of acres of land, heck yeah,
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: I'd be out there hunting all the time because who cares.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, like you've got other places to go. Um,
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: But like the Spottom hunting holy Field, there's ninety acres,
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: there's forty acres cover that I'm hunting basically, And if
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: I'm hunting that all the time, trying fare out where
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: he is, I'm never going to see him. So in
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: this kind of situation, like you have to be very
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: very careful about when you do go in those spots.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: So what I choose to do during this time of year, um,
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: because I don't have the I don't as much as
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: I know this area, I'm not able to get on
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: that buck in daylight. Based on all the scout I've
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: done the past, the historical observations trail cameras, etcetera, etcetera.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: So in that kind of situation, in my opinion, it's
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: better to wait until the timing is better. But to
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: your point, it is still worth hunting. It is still
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: work because anything can happen. There are still good days,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: deer are still out there, deer moving. So I'm just
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: spending my hunting time on areas they are lower risk
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: where I'm not as worried about messing up my number
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: one goal. Um some I'm hunting a bunch of public lan.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: I'm going to other states to do some different things.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Um So, if you've got other spots to hunt, I
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: highly recommend it them all about dig in there, find
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: new spots to be aggressive. But if you, for whatever reason,
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: if you do, only have twenty acres to hunt, and
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: that's at this point, that's all you've gotten. Let's say,
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: for that guy at this point, with the cards he
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: has in his hand right now, maybe it is better
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: to be safe and wait a little bit longer. Like
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: you said earlier, that's not a great situation. Ideally, you
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: would already have found other places you can hunt, or
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: you know, public lan, or you get permission somewhere else.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: So you're not in that position. But if you are
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: and you don't know how the shift happened, then yes,
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: my recommendation would be okay if you have an accounted
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: for the shift. If you don't have other places to
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: go have a good time, you probably we will screw
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: things up more than help. If you go blundering around
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: right now, Wait until the cold front or an observation
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: or a little bit later in the month, until things
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: pick up even more. That's that's my personal take. I
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: think we've basically just gone around circles on it, but
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: we could. We could. I mean, I'm if I go
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: out this weekend, and the only reason I don't go
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: out this weekend is simply too and I want to
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: go out really bad, But I also don't want to
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: piss my wife off, right, and that technically that is
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: the only reason why I wouldn't go out. If if
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: I go hunting, I'm going to set up in an
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: observation stand uh where I can see relatively good movement
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: or find myself in a really tight little area with
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: great access to you know, where I know the wind's
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: going to be good. So if something does come by, um,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: it will you know within shooting light. I'll be there
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: for it, um, But I'm not I'm not careless. I'm
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: not gonna go hammering through the woods, you know, or
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: or going into a place where the winds wrong or
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: that has shitty access. You know. I'm gonna play it
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: as smart as humanly possible, but I'm I'm not going
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: to not hunt all right. So before we get too
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: far into this new topic of talking about our upcoming plans,
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: let's take a quick break to think. Our partners at
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: White Tail Properties and Spencer new Hearth will take it
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: from here. This week with White Tailed Properties, we were
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: joined by Adam Hayden, a land specialist out of Ohio,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: and Edam is going to be telling us about how
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: to develop a checklist as a property buyer. One thing
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: that I would suggest whenever I you know, if I
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: was going in to look at a property, I would
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: sit down and I would just ask myself several questions, A,
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: you know, how big of a property do I want? Be?
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: Obviously what is my budget? And then you know I
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: would go in to see like that, just detail else specifics, um,
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: you know, and am I wanting to big open woods?
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: Am I wanting crop fields around? Just depending on where
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: you're at in the country. Um, you know, am I
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: wanting water on the property? And if water is not there,
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: do I have capabilities of putting upon the myself? Um?
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: You know, there's just so many things that you can
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: think about, um and write actually on paper and make
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: a list that will help you being you know, help
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: a buyer whenever they're looking at properties physically or filtering
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: through them online. They can actually go through and eliminate
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: properties or check off properties. Um. But then also just
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: kind of keep a list. I mean, if you if
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: you narrow what you want to look at down to
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: three or four or five properties, and you have a checklist,
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: even in an Excel file or something else, so easy
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: to go in there and then check off and look
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: at the ones that has hit more criteria than the others,
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: and it would help you choose the property that's best
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: for you. If you'd like to learn more and to
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: see the properties that Adam currently has listed for sale,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: visit whitetail properties dot com backslash Hayden that's h A
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: Y D E N. Yeah, And I think that's all.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: I think that's all important, that's all smart like, that's
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: that's that's something I think everyone should be keeping in mind.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: So if you do get to go in this weekend,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: if if you get the blessing from from the powers
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: to be UM, what's your game plan? Where are you hunting?
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: What's uh used the observations stand? You have a specific
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: area already picked out based on do you have some
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: kind of rationale what you're gonna do? Yeah? Yeah, I
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: I have what I feel is a really good area.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: So they're betting on these ridges, They're coming off these ridges,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: they're following kind of the terrain as a creek flows
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: through and all the all the ridges come down and
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: end in kind of this general area. Really good creek access, right,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: I can I can get in the creek and walk
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: to the stand location. And this all is dependent on
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: what the wind direction is. Right, So if it's like
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: a straight north wind, I probably can't hunt it because
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: my wind would blow too hard into where that betting
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: area is. UM. I doubt we get the weather says
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: that there's not gonna be any participitation for a while,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: So I doubt there's gonna be any type of UM
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: wind with an east type of wind in it. So
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: I really like this time of year off the betting
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: areas just aways before the staging areas where the deer
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: aren't congregated around you. If they do show up, they
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: they're walking by you, so there. Then they go into
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: this staging area, they're hanging out in there, they're already
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: past you. And then they go into the the their
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: food source. So wherever that food sources, it doesn't necessarily
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: have to be an egg field, but um that betting
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: travel corridor staging area, um uh food source that we
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: kind of talked about. However, on this scenario, that food
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: source is a is a either a clover field or
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: a cornfield. And man, that's that staging area when I
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: went and hunted it last time was packed, right, I
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: mean the deer were coming off these ridges left and right.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: You know, I saw a really good buck there last time.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: And you know, I may need to adjust my stand
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: location a bit, but I just feel I have really
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: good cover to get into this this little area that's
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: before the staging area and in between. It's like that
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: travel corridor, a little area between betting and staging. And man,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: I think that that's it could be good any time
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: of year, no matter what the weather is or what
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: the temperature is It's just you're you're really close to
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: the betting area. You can get in there and not
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: disturb anything. I already have a stand hung for it,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: so I don't know. It's just if they're gonna move,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: they're gonna move type deal. It sounds pretty good. Yeah,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: I'm really good. Yeah. And then and it also depends
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: on if the crops are up, because if the crops
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: are up in another field, I think I might sit
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: an observation stand and watch what is happening on the
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: high part of this field, and I'm gonna look down
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: this buffer strip and see if there's anything crossing, And
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: if there is, then the next night I'll be in
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: there with a running gun stand wherever that dear crossed
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: if the winds are consistent. I love those kinds of areas.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: I love an observation stand type setup like that where
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: you can just see a long ways and see what's
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: going on and observe and adjust. That is a fun
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: way to hunt. I'll tell you what. But here's the problem.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: Those are good. But what I and I'll tell this
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: to people as a learning experience, don't sit. If you
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: see something and it and you see something good, move
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: in on that the very next opportunity you get. Because
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: I used to be in the habit of thinking, okay,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: two times is a pattern, right, I needed something to
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: happen two times to be a pattern, so I'll sit it.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: I would sit an observation area two times in a row. Well, typically,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: unless it's a south wind, winds don't hold true for
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: forty eight hours. Right, There's gonna be some kind of
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: play in them, So that deer could potentially use a
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: different you know, trail or you know pattern to get
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: from his betting to his food source if that's the
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: hot food source at this time. So don't wait and
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: hunt that second uh, that second night and do an
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: observation stand If you see something you want to kill,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: you better be in there the next night. But then
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: don't you hate it when you go and move to
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: the other spot, and then that day you see him
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: walk by where your standing was. Hey, the buck I
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: killed in in two thousand and twelve. Um, I bet
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: me and my buddy Ryan, he was the camera guy
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: for me at that time. We tore down and set
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: up within a five acre area probably twelve different times
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: before I killed killed it that I didn't not that
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: buck but before I killed a mature buck. Yeah, that's
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: a lot. So you gotta I mean, you gotta be
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: willing to work for it. But if you're looking for
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: like a one to knockout punch, that that can happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: that's that's always the rub. And that's something I've struggled with.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Two is it's known when to move and when to wait.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: And you know, you just never know that when you
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: when you see something happen, did that is that an anomaly?
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: Or is that happening for a reason? Or everything happens
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: for a reason, But does that an anomaly that's not
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: going to repeat itself or is there something that's going
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: to repeat itself. I don't know the answer for me,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: but I definitely do know that's it's better to to
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: sometimes make that move than sit and wait and regret it,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: that's for sure. So I will tell you this, okay,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: on the days that I sit in observation stand and
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: witness a mature buck or what I'm going to call
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: a shooter in my book, the days that I witness
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: or from an observation stand witnessed a mature buck moving,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: and the days that I move in that next day.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: I bet you that the success rate of at least
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: seeing him at a closer distance not necessarily harvesting him
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: and killing him and getting him or getting him to
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: come down the right trail, the success rate for me
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: to just see that buck the next possible day is
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: higher positive than it is negative, even if it's only
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: like fifty five to We're getting to that time of year. Well,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff is gonna happen a lot for
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of us. Uh, the ramp up is happening.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: So you are possibly gonnahunt this weekend and that's like
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: the like the twenty second or twenty one and twenty
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: seconds this coming weekend, and then the next weekend is
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: what it's a wedding in Minnesota. I haven't hunted that
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: last weekend in October for like four years and now
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: that because it's either been trick or treating, gotta go
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: with the kids, or it's been um weddings or something
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: has happened and I don't get to get into that.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: And that's like one of my favorite times of year.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: It's when I start seeing the big boys on their feet, right,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: That's when that's when you can do that one rap
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: and you see antlers, you know, turn on a dime
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: and start walking your way where you rattle at something
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: and they turn around and come to inspect. Right, they're
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: not full blown rut crazy, but they're curious. And that's
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: like one of my favorite times a year. Oh yeah,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: that's when the magic starts happening a little bit, right,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: that's uh. And and not only does the magic start
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: picking up at that time of year, but also I
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: just looked at the extended forecast and finally we got
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: some cold weather coming in right with the beginning of
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: that phase. At least for me in southern Michigan, it's
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: been like in the set other than today, Today is
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: actually pretty nice. It's like in the fifties. Um, but
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: then it gets hot again for the next week and
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: a half into the seventies all the way until next
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: Tuesday and Wednesday, and next Tuesday and Wednesday's is dropping
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: down like the fifties and even maybe like the forties. Finally,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: like a legitimate cold front coinciding with that last week
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: of October. So I'm really excited about that because, as
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: you know, as we've talked about, I've been holding off
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: on hunting Holy Field until that time. Frame and hoping
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: that a cold front would coincide with that time frame.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: And it looks like if the if the weather forecast
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: stays true, which you never know if it will, but
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: if it does, I'm going to be super super duper
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: pumped for like of next week. Um so I'm jacked.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: I need to ask you some questions about this approach
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: to holy Field. If you don't mind, please do Okay,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: So right now, when was the last time you trick
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: your trail cameras with holy Field? I had picture of
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: Woli fill one. I checked matrail cameras, um this past Friday,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: I think so Friday the Friday checked the trail camera. Okay,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: any any close to daylight activity? No? No, okay? Uh
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: so he's all He's coming in in the middle of
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: the night, right the only because I've had two daylight
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: pictures of him in September. Everything else has been the
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: middle of the night. Okay. So last couple of years,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: when has he started coming? Is he? Is he A?
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: Is he out of there for morning hunts? I mean
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: our morning hunts? A A no brainer because it sounds
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: to me like where he's coming is a destination. Right,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: So if you were to drive a four wheeler or
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: something in there in the morning, you'd probably bump them
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: out absolutely. Okay, So this is an evening hunt scenario
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: right until the rut, until the rut, and then I
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: just I couldn't hunt this front area in the mornings
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: in the ruck, but I can hunt other portions of
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: the property in the rut and hope that I could
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: catch him cruising around off of his you know, just
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: look checking out different betting areas. But the two and
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: again this farm just like where he lives, and then
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: how I can hunt it. It's just a very very
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: much so and We've talked about it at length in
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: past years. I'm really really limited. I can hunt like
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: all I can hunt the field that like, there's there's
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: no I can't get into any of the stuff that
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: he transitions through. I can't get to where he beds.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: I can't get into any of that stuff. UM. So,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: all I've been able to do is try to make
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: the areas that he might come out to feed a
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: little bit more appealing. Um And in past years I've
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: hunted him in mid October, early in mid October, hoping
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: I would catch him out there in daylight. And I
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: never did, and so my hypothesis has been that I'm
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: just wasting Maybe I've just been wasting my time and
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: making it less likely that will ever come out there
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: in late October when he does move in daylight more often.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: So my my plan this year has been unless I
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: get something that tells me I need to change his plan,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: like unless I see him in daylight when I'm scouting,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: or get daylight pictures of him. If nothing like that happens,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna be really really patient until his historical
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: pattern tells me this is when he typically moves more
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: in daylight, and if you hadn't been in there all
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: up until that point, he should move in daylight closer
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: to you even more than you've seen him in the
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: past couple of years. Rights building. Okay, so then have
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: you have you kind of mapped out or had like
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: an internal conversation with yourself about his his travel patterns
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: throughout the day when he does hit, like where he's
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: coming in, out, where he's going, and hypothetically what he's
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: doing when he's excuse me, not on your property a little.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's only so much I can figure because
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: of you know, there's only so much that's happening on property.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: I can run cameras that I can observe, but I
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: have to a degree I know some stuff, um, and
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: I have some theories of of what he's doing, um,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: but obviously lots of unknown because I'm just I'm working
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: with a very very tiny sliver of where he's hanging out. Okay,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: but I did I did this, I, UM, you know,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: I've been running his the trail cameras with Deer Lab
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: and looking at patterns through that, and then I've also
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: been keeping a journal entry of every single sighting I
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: have of him. Well, today I went and I combined
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: those two things together into an Excel spreadsheet. And so
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: what I did is I took every single daylight data point,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: so either in the field observation of him during daylight
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: or daylight trail camera photo, and I and put that
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: into a spreadsheet. And then I mapped out the location,
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: whether it was M or PM, what the temperature was,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: if this was a cold front sighting, so if this
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: if this came after a temperature drop of more than
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: ten degrees um, what the wind direction was, what the
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: wind speed was, what the pressure was. Was this on
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: a red moon day or was this on a moon
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: on the edges day? So the two theories that some
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: people talk about is that there's this moon overhead or underfoot.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: That's the red moon time frame that guys like Adam
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: Hayes talk about. And then there's some guys who like
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: to see the moon rising or setting um during the
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: last hour of daylight the first hour of daylight. So
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: I wanted to see if any of those things correlated
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: with the daylight observations I have of him. So I
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: have fifty four daylight data points to work with from
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen. So there's yeah, there's it's the two
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: other fifteen through now there's been fifty four times either
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: I've seen him or I've gotten a picture of him.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: And I'm not counting like you know, if you get it,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: you know, if you get a burst of three photos
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: during daylight and then he stays there for another two minutes.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: I'm only counting one picture from like every day, So
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: fifty four different days that I've either had him seen
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: or photographed um, and then I like tried to match
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: it against any one of these things. So is there
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: any of these factors that correlate with him being daylight active,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: because again, I'm just trying to see is there anyway
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: I can better fine tune when to start going after
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: him or which days to to go to the best spots,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: just because I think you know last year, right, I
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: saw him a ton, but only a couple of times
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: was he ever actually on the property I could shoot
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: him on. Very often he was just back in the
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: cover and stuff. So I'm just trying to be really
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: careful about those times I strike so that there's a
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: little bit better chance that he is in my side. UM.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: So I found that there wasn't a really strong correlation
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: to the moon at all. UM. Thirteen out of the
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: fifty four daylight data points happened with a red moon. UM.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: Twelve of the fifty four happened with the moon on
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: the edges. UM. But if you combine those, so nearly
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: fifty of all of my daily pictures or sightings happened
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: when there was something moon related that supposedly is supposed
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: to help you. UM. But what I didn't figure out
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: is how many days of the month would have one
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: of those two factors. So if it's so, if that,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: do you know what I'm trying to say? So you're Basically,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: what you're looking for is to narrow down all your
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: UM data point to try to find the highest possibility
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: of an encounter with with him based off daylight intel. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: and maybe maybe there's like something glaringly obvious that I
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: haven't noticed before, Like I would love to see something
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: like if I had never looked at this in this
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: level of detail, it would be awesome to see. Oh man,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: if of all my daylight encounters with him happened when
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: you had this red moon thing going on, like whoa,
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: that's an eye opener. But that I did not find that.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: But I was hoping to find something like that with
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: something with wind or cold weather or the moon or
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: pressure or something that was the hope or like the
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: maybe if I find that, that will just help me
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: better inform when to strike in the best spots. Um.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: So it does he favor a wind, So that is
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: the biggest thing that he does have a correlation with.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: Seventy of my sightings or daylight photos of him happened
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: with a westerly wind of some time. Now. That is,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: we do get more westerly winds than anything. Um So
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: maybe that's just because that's what got But um, but
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: it's used to say, very few pictures or sightings when
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: there was something easterly or straight north or straight south.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: So that again tells me when I've got those southwest
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: or northwest winds, you know I shouldn't be trying to
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: wait for something better. I should I should know that
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: those are the days when he's seventy five percent the
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: time almost that's when he's moving. UM. I was surprised
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: to see that only thirty seven percent of these sightings
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: happened with the cold front, So that means seventy or
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: sixty three percent of the time I was seeing or
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: observing him UM on a on just a regular day,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: a non CULD friend day, So that was a little surprising.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: Although a lot of that I need to I need
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: to do some further digging in. A ton of those
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: have been in December. Um. He just becomes disproportionately daylight
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: active in my spots in December. UM. I don't know
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: exactly why that is. Maybe it's just because I've got
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: the best late season food. But man, if I don't
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: if he, if he someone makes it through October and
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: November into December, he's just ridiculously killable in my in
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: my area, Like I mean, day after day after day
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: after day and daylight active. Um, but I would really
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: like to kill him before then. So so I'm just
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: gonna I was just gonna say. So there weren't any
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: really big aha moments out of the analysis. It's interesting
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: to see. I'm gonna continue to kind of pass through
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: it and see if there's any you know, as I
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: filtered by different variables a little bit differently. Um, and
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: you know, it might be interesting to see. Okay, at
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: this one front food plot area in October and November,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: how do these things then look? So that might maybe
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: there'll be different factors there. Maybe in October and November
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: at this one location. Maybe he only moves up there
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: when there's a certain wind direction or a certain moon
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: or something like that. Um. I don't know, but I'm
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: just trying to it's interesting if nothing else, um, and
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: maybe it would maybe it could help me. Okay, the
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: property that he lives on that you do not have
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: access to. Are these people other active bow hunters? Um?
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: Not very active? No, they don't hunt very often. I
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: don't Yeah, Okay, I hope they don't become active, right,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: So selfish is there? I mean do you ever play
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: the game, like if I could hunt where, if you
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: could hunt this little air you know, the next property
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: over where you would put a tree stand in. I've
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: thought about all the time. Okay, I said there all
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: the time, and the only could be over there. So
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: have you when you talk with this landowner? What do
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: they say to you? What? What? What are they? I mean,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: are you in constant communication with him? Do you talk
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: with them? Do they know that the story of this buck? Um?
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: Do they know anything? Uh? No, I kind of keep it,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: you know, we keep relatively private. We talked every once
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: in a while. Um, really really nice people. Um. But
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: they they're not in the area, so they don't they're
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: not around very often. Um. But you know, I don't know,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: have you ever have you ever thought about just saying, hey, UM,
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: do you mind if I hunt your property just this
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: weekend and kind of correlate that with a cold front
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: or you know, do a running gun in there or
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: something and just ask for one day? Yeah, you know,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: I thought about it, um, but ultimately I decided that, um,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: that it's not the right thing to do. I don't
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: want to push things too far. Like they're really nice people, um.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: Uh they've allowed me to do something that let me
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: shed hunt out there. Um. They've been okay with me
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: tracking deer out there, things like that. UM. But I've
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: always worried I don't want to push it too far. UM.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: And I felt like that might be no, not say
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: that I never will. And maybe if it comes up
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: in conversation um, or if they were to say we're
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: not gonna be around at all in November, um, and
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: then it might be what would you care if I've
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: every went in there? But I've just um, I've been
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: the type too always in this kind of situation, like
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: there's a line somewhere, and I've kind of drawn that
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: line there, maybe falsely, um, but but that's where things
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: are right now of the relationship. Got you, got you?
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: So I don't know. Well, the good The good thing
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: is it doesn't sound like anybody else's is over there
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: hunting that property, which is why he's still alive. Yeah,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: there there are some other guys that hunt like on
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: the edges of it around it, um, that know about
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: the deer, so that he he certainly could get killed
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: because there's there are this person like isn't this this
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: area or this specific little spot isn't getting hunted a lot.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: But there's a bunch of people around the periphery that
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: are that do know about the deer um that I
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: think probably are after him or in that area, So
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: he's certainly not safe. Do you think that any of
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: the people are hunting this deer because you've put this
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: story out there? Yes, okay, I do know that there
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: are some people who know of this dear because of
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: my because of word hunt. Um, so that makes things
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: interesting to you know, Oh yeah, yeah it is. Yeah,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: So you know, what can you do. Everyone's got a
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: right to hunt these deer everyone. I hope everyone is
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: a good time. And you know I would if someone
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: else kills him, good for them. I'll be you know,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: I'll be I'll be personally bummed but happy for that
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: person to Um. But you know two things. Number One,
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: I'm running late because I I'm supposed to be heading
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: into hunts in public land tonight. Again, that's right, so
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: I don't want to go too much longer. But um,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: but I did check those TROLD cameras like I told you,
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: and did finally get some pictures of him where you
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: can see him face first, like head on. I don't
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: know if you saw the pictures I posted online, I
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: don't remember if I sent it to you or not. Um,
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: but he kind of just looks like he always has.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: He has not grown very much. Um, he's maybe a
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: little bit wider, got a big old body of him,
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: but his body, his body is noticeably bigger man I think, Yep,
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: he's definitely, definitely a nice, big old mature warrior. He's
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: got you know, his his telltale chunk missing out of
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: his one ear, and then I know it's on close
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: ups his other ear. He's got two notches out of
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: his other ear too, smaller ones. But when you see
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: a couple of the pictures that are up close, you
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: can see these little knocks out of there. So you know,
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: between that, between the three chunks out of his ears
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: and he lost part of his main beam last year,
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: he seems to be a fighter of a sort. So, um,
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: you know, he's a buck that I wonder what he
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: I wonder what kind of impact he has in the
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: general area, because I'm not getting like any other mature
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: bucks at all on camera, um or even seeing other
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: mature bucks in past years. In the last three years, really, um,
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: you know, saw something like maybe a three year old.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: But um, but that's it, And so it makes you wonder,
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: is he like one of those bully bucks who's just
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: like really dominant, keeps other air side of the area.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: And I wonder if, if ever I do kill him,
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: if if the dynamic in the area will change because
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: of that. Um, So that would be interesting to see. Two. Yeah,
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: I've I've had that experience happened firsthand, and have talked
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: with other guys. Where a buck like that gets killed,
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: he's been dominant in that area for years. Your area
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: becomes a vacuum and it just sucks all the other
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: deer into it. There's a there's a jostling for position
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: again for for dominance, and then there's an increase in
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: buck activity. Yeah, that's that's what I think might happen too.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: So I hope that I can see what that looks
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: like because I was the one to have killed holy
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: Field and close it out. But yeah, the game plan
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: as far as now, since I'm not getting any daylight photos,
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: since I'm not seeing him when I'm scouting from my
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: little hill, is um that I'm gonna wait till that
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: cold front comes and you know, sex somewhere around that
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: time frame, and then I'm gonna be hunting him pretty
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: hard from that point through the first week of November. UM.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: And we've talked about throughout the year. I put up
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: a bunch of different stands up this year to try
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: to take advantage of some running activity that I didn't
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: in the past. I didn't have stands back in this
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: one chunk of timber that I can hunt, and so
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: I never really knew maybe he was going back in
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: there during the rut. So I've got stands for that.
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: I've been much more careful about these front kind of
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: food areas I've been staying out, so hopefully you know,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: when I do start hunting, they're gonna be full of
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: dos and he's gonna come in and check those doughs
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: instead of last year, where by the time he started
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: moving in daylight, the doughs weren't coming to the food.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: Plus because I hunted three weekends in a row. UM,
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: so some hoping for all those kinds of things. And
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: in between now and then, I'm gonna hunt, keep hunting
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: this public land and hunt some other private parcels I
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: have permission on around the state. UM. I never told
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: you about my public land hunt last week. That was
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: just a debacle and a half. Yeah, I mean like
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: it was awesome set up, Like I was really happy
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: when I got in there. It looked really good, you know.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: I think I told you this is that buck bed
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: I'd found in the summer and got set up in
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: between it coming off this little island and a swamp,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: and I thought I could catch something transitioning out to
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: these ridges covering oak trees. I was right about everything
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: as far as like what was going on in there,
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: like literally just like a floor of acorns, so many
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: acorns is nuts, so tons and tons of food in there. Um.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: And it was raining and wet, and I got in
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: there really good and quiet set up. I felt really good, um,
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: but didn't end up seen a single deer, so I
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: was disappointing. It could have been because the rain and
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: the wind was supposed to taper off into the evening
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: hours and by the last hour or two was supposed
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: to calm down and and kind of chill out, and
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: I thought they'd be up and moving then, but it
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: kept on, like the wind kept howling and the rain
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: kept prn So I wonder if maybe that just kept
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: him down a little bit longer I don't know. Um.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: But the debacle was trying to get out of there,
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: because to get back into this spot, like it is
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: a long walk, it is really hilly, is really thick. Um.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: So getting in there I found like an old deer
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: trail kind of deal that I was able to follow
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: through some of these brush and briers and different things. Um,
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: and you're growing up and down and through all sorts
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: of crap. But at times I was like crawling on
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: all fours for long portions of time to get through stuff. Um.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: But I was able to get there, okay. But when
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: I was trying to get out after dark, you know,
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: when you can't see anything other than what it's right
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: in front of your face and the headlamp, you can't
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: see where the openings are, or where a path might be,
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: or the best way to get through an area. So
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: all I had was like my phone with Google Maps up,
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: trying to like, okay, I know I need to have
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: that direction, and I just kind of would go on
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: a straight line and I couldn't get out of the place.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: Like I walked in circles for like over an hour
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: hour and a half, probably like running into just walls,
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: like impenetrable walls of crap everywhere, and I was falling
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: over dead falls. I rolled down a hill once. I've
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: got these huge bruises on my leg from taking a tumble.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: Um again, I was like crawling through stuff. Um, And
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: I got to the point, like people talk about when
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: you get lost in people panic and start like just
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: running around like a crazy person. I was getting so
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: frustrated that I was just like just I would just
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: put my head down and just like plow through stuff.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: And it was raining and had scratches all over my face.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: My phone fell out in my pocket at one point
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: when I was crawling, and and literally, if I did
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: lose my phone, I would have been stuck up there overnight.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: Like literally, I was just walking in circles without the phone,
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: There's no way I would have got out. So I
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: had to just crawl around for several minutes, like just
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: looking through all the brush and picking up all the leaves,
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: trying to find my stupid phone. I finally did find it,
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: but oh my gosh, it was so bad. So tonight
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: I'm going back in there, um, but I'm gonna mark
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: my tracks, like with my phone. I'm gonna measure the
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: actual path I take it, or like you know, GPS
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: track the actual path so then I can follow the
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: actual path all the way back out and hopefully have
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: a better walk back to the truck. And it was
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: it was so so bad. I got back bruise and
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: bloody and soaking wet and piste off and it wasn't good.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: So well, good luck, man. I'm I just I don't know,
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: it's in our blood, you know, you just want to
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: be out there all the time. Now this year, I
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: mean it's we wait for it and we wait for
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: it and wait for it. Man. I just I just
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: want to be in a tree stand period. Um, I'm
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: right there with you. It's feeling like it like yesterday
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: and today feels like good hunt weather. Um, it's that
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: time year, the time of years coming up quick, So
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: I got one last question for you know then the
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: ruts up coming up, the grind is about to start.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like have you ever hit a point
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: of almost like complete exhaustion or um, you know, like
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: mentally fatigued, maybe thinking about giving up or taking a
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: day off when the weather's good or or something like that.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: Have you ever hit that point of just like I
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: don't know, so we'll like it. It's playing a game
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: with your head. Oh yeah, I've had that happen during
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: the rut. For sure. You don't want it to happen,
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: but it does. It does happen. And I think every
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: year I'm always challenging myself to do a better job
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: of pushing through those those periods. Um but it's I
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: think that's pretty human. I gotta believe, especially if you're
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: if you're if you're the type that does marathon it
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: and you push and you hunt a ton during that
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: time period, it's natural, I think, to to get fatigued,
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: to get worn out, and I don't know, some guys say,
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: I've heard some people say, you know what, when you
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: get to that point and you're feeling totally worn down
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: and you're losing like the edge and the fun in it,
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: and you're just whooped, sometimes it is good to take
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: a morning or day off and just like let yourself recoup,
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: because then when you get back to it, then you recharge,
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: re energize, and you're more effective for the remaining days.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: Or then the other side, some guys say, no, you
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: gotta push through because that day you take off, that
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: could be the only day that you would have had
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: the opportunity. Um So, I don't know what the right
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: answer is, but um, I try to push as hard
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: as I can. Yeah. So I'm I'm excited the marathon.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: The grind for me is going to start the middle
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: of next week and it's just gonna be game time
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: for for three weeks. So are you are you going to? Uh?
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: When are you hit in Ohio? Man? I don't know.
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: I maybe maybe would do that in between now and then.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: Um just there's been no good weather down there. I've
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: just been waiting on that. Um But I don't know,
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: I just have we we don't have as much going
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: on down there's in past years. Like there's not a
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: deer that I've been hunting for multiple years. There isn't
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: like something that I'm like overly like stoked about. It's
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: um so, it's just when we get down there, we'll
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: get down there. I'm sure it'll be great. I hope
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: it'll be great. Um. I've just been kind of probably
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: overly focused on Holy Field and everything, so I haven't
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: spent as much time like internally in my head thinking
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: about what's going on down there. But I need to
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: get down there and figure it out and get after it.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: So and then North Dakota at some point again, right, yeah,
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: that's that's the whole other things. I gotta figure out
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: when to fit in that trip. So in a in
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: a perfect world, if in a off it world, if
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: next week I get the cold Front conditions line up,
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: I go into one of these spots kill holy Field.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: You know, if that could happen, then I've got like
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: two and a half three weeks where all I need
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: to do or that, you know, I could do hunt
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: Ohio or and go to North Dakota. So I would
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: probably go ahead and take a week long trip to
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: North Dakota during that time period, hunts in public land,
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: and then come back and do a week in Ohio.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: But the holy Field thing is just gonna take up
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: take precedence over all those things until that comes to
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: some kind of conclusion. So right right, But yeah, to
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: your point, I'm ready getting a tree and like really
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: get after it. So I suppose on that front, I
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: should we should shut this down so I can go
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: get in a tree. That's right. Well, good luck, man,
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: and keep me posted. Thanks dude, you too, Hope you're
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: able to get out in the woods. This weekend, your
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: pregnant wife gonna be able to drag a deer? Help
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: you drag a deer? You know, she probably would if
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: I really wanted to, but I'll call one of my
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: buddies instead. She's been a trooper, though she's been a
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: real trooper. She's doing she's handled really well. And um,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: I told her the story that he's told me the
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: other day about how Mac is waking up at four
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: thirty every morning and just pressing on your face over
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: and over till you wake up. I'm like, that's that's
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: gonna be our future, honey. So we're gonna enjoy these
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: few more months of quiet while we got it. And
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: then the SHI phone, all right, man, let's shut this
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: one down. I'm gonna go hunting, and then hopefully it's
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: a good story until next time. And that is a
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: rap for episode number one seventies seven. Um, a couple
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: quick reminders. Number one, if you haven't been listening to
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: our radio episodes, which are you know, a regular episode
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: of Wired Hunts coming out every week, but we're now
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: doing two episodes a week, so you get your episode
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: that you just heard now plus a RUT radio episode.
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: And let's come out every Wednesday. Make sure you're listening
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: to those because in those episodes, we are getting real
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: time updates from different hunters across the country in different
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: states about what's happening right now in the woods, what
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: kind of dear behavior is seeing, what kind of dear activity,
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: what kind of running activity might be picking up, and
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: then what kinds of tactics are actually working right now
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: in these different places. So it's really helpful information, it's
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: real time. It can help you in your hunt's right now.
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: So don't miss those episodes, and i'd probably recommend listen
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: those first. As soon as those come out, listen to
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: them because it can help you now. UM number two
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: haven't mentioned this in a little while, but if you
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: haven't yet left or rating or review on iTunes for
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: the Wired Hunt podcast, we would really appreciate that it
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: does make a difference. It is helpful. Thank you for that. Um.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: Speaking of ways you can show your support if you
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: would like to, we do have a lot of merchandise
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: available Wired Hunt hats and shirts and stickers. That's awesome
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: if you can pick up some of those things, that
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: really helps us out. It supports the podcast and you know,
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: it's great. You can rep your you're being a part
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: of the Wired Hunt Nation, so thanks in advance if
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: you do that. Um and finally, I just want to
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: thank our partners who helped make this podcast possible as well.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: So big thanks to sit Gear, Yetdie Cooler's, Matthew's Archery,
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: Maven Optics, the White Tailed Institute of North America, Trophy
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: Ridge and Hunt Terra Maps, and finally, big things to
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: all of you out there listening. I appreciate you tuning in,
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: appreciate your time. Good things coming ahead here in the
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: hunting season, so I hope you're all gonna be able
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: to spend some time in the woods. I wish you
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: luck out there, and I hope you'll stay wired to Hunt.