Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Ethiopia Habtemariam

Transcript

Ethiopia Habtemariam · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The guest today is Ethiopia. Have to marry him. If
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: you have a great to have you here, thank you,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: thank you for having me. So if you go on
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Spotify and you look at the Spotify top fifty, it's
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: almost completely urban and it's almost completely hip hop. Why
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: do you think that is? Because kids love hip hop music.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Kids around the world love hip hop music. It's not
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: just in the US, that's around the world. Do you
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: have a feeling why that is? I mean, Steve Stout
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: says it's a universal language and it's the only music
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: people can make without instruments, and therefore it spread throughout
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: the world. I think that's a part of it. I
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: also think that hip hop is a part of a
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: culture and a lifestyle. Music and fashion really crossed, you know,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: the cross section is there, and I think around the
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: world you can see kids dressed the same, they listen
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: to the same kinds of music. And I think hip
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: hop has infused every area. Um. Yeah, And I think
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: it's a form of expression that just you know, kids
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: relate to. And where do you think it might be going.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I just had this conversation on Sunday. Um. I think
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: that people want music with more substance. I think that
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: kids are really emotional. And I was talking to my
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: god daughter about this, who's sixteen, who I don't think
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: it's really expressive. And she lives in Atlanta, and I
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: talked to her all the time, And when I'm talking
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: to her from l A, she doesn't really open up
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: to me that much. But when I go her social media,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: I can tell what's going on with her by the
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: lyrics that she's posting. Right, So, kids rely on music
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: to really connect to what they're going through or what
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: they're feeling. And I think that um, they want more
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: substantial music that can represent what they're going through and
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: what they're feeling. And I think that you know, we're
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: seeing all of us are going through a lot. And
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: do you think that pretends I mean, hip hop is
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: going through varying phase. It was a sound of the
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: inner city that it was literally the sound of the
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: streets we have the riots in Then at the end
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: of the MTV era, it was about boats and babes, etcetera. Uh,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: do you think it's going to in the era of
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Ferguson and me too? You think it's going to be
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: grittier and more honest definitely. But I think look hip
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: hop is they're different forms of hip hop that exists,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: is just it's just about what's the most popular at
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: the time. I mean, I think we can look at
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Spotify today, we see how huge Post Malone's record is,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: and I think you can see that Post is influenced
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: by a lot of different kinds of music and his
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: hooks are very melodic, um, and you can tell that
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: he's also you know, influenced by country music as well,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: and he relates to a lot of different kids. UM.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: But I do think what's gonna come up more is
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: more substantial lyrics. You look at j Cole's record, which
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: cut through in such a big way, and I wasn't
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: really surprised by it because I think a lot of
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: us were having the conversation around it's not just being
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: one kind of hip hop that represented where the culture
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: was us And I think Jay Cole did the perfect
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: record that really um represented what the commercial sound was
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: from a production standpoint, but also lyrically touched on every
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: aspect of where the culture is now. Like there's a
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: little bit too much of one representation of the culture
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: where it can kind of feel like it's a little
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: um comedic in some ways and in other ways, you're
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: like kids are doing drugs and they're only talking about
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: certain aspects of you know, money or etcetera. Because they're
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: really just trying to hide what they really feel. They
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: don't know how to express the emotions that they're dealing with.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: And I think that he really touched on that with
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: this record, um without without feeling too preachy. But the
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: previous record was kind of a disappointment, right record financially
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I didn't think so it was pretty Yeah. I know,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Jay Cole has been extremely SUCCESSU. I mean, you know,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. I'm I'm a big Ja Cole supporter.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: I signed him when I was at Universal Publishing when
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: he released his second mixtape, The warm Up, before he
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: you know, put out his first album, etcetera. And he's
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: one of the most authentic, realist artists that's been operating
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: and marching to the beat of his own drum and
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: it's been incredible to see. But he's been successful with
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: every record. Okay, so you're from Hotlanta. Okay, why is
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Atlanta an epicenter of hip hop music? Urban music? I
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: wouldn't even just say urban music Okay, So I'm from Atlanta.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: All right, I'm first generation Ethiopian American. My parents are
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: from Ethiopia, hence the name Ethiopia. Okay, let's go back there.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: You've been living for almost forty years with the name Ethiopia.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Why why am I having years? Okay? Well, I didn't
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: want to go exactly exactly. You know, has that been
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: a good thing or a bad thing? Okay? So, early years,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: elementary years, I was in Tuskegee, Alabama. My dad had
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: been the dean of the Vest School there since I
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: was a kid. And during the early eighties that's when
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: you saw all the commercials about the famine in Ethiopia. Right,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: so you know I'm there. My name is Ethiopia tragic.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: It was extremely tough for me. So anyone that knows
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: me from Tuskegee, Alabama actually knows me by my middle name,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: which is haywan Um. And that was because I took
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: it upon myself to change the name while in school,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: like oh no, I'm not gonna I'm not going through this.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: You're gonna know me as haywan so Um. Then we
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: moved to Atlanta the summer before my sixth grade year
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: and go to sixth grade Ralph Bunch Middle School in
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Southwest Atlanta. Who's in my class a group by the
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: name of Criss Cross, and they weren't discovered yet. They
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: got discovered that year. But one of the members of
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: the group, Christmas the lighter skin one with the braids,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: was one of my really close friends. And they get
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: discovered and become the biggest group in music at the time,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: and it was crazy, you know what I mean. So
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Criss Cross happens and it's like right in my backyard,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: which was fascinating. No, I didn't, but I definitely, you know,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: I was like super proud of of of them, of him,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: of what was happening in the scene at the time.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: And that's when I think I got to see firsthand
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: what was happening in the community. So it was like
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Jermaine Duprie so so deaf. You saw ABC in Dallas
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Austin start his you know, kind of run, and to
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: me as a kid, it felt like the biggest thing
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: in the world. I mean, I remembered when Criss Cross
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: was on tour with Michael Jackson. That was crazy, you
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. It was it was let's go
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: back your parents from Etho or from Ethiopia. How did
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: they end up coming to America? My father, UM, came
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: on scholarship to the University of Colorado. UM, then went
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: back to Ethiopia, married my mother. They went to Canada,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: had my older brother, and then my father went to
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: get his pH d at u C. Berkeley. My mother
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: went to u C. Davis and UM, yeah, so they
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: came for education. My father was you know, my father
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: didn't really come from much. He was like the one
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: kid out of eight kids to get chosen to go
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: to school. And my mom, on the other hand, came
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: from a very well off family. My grandfather was the
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: first pilot in Ethiopia. UM and um. You know, my
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: dad is ten years older than my mom and um. Yeah,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: they fell in love and they're still married. They're still
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: So how many kid children in your family? Three? And
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: where are you in the hierarchy. I'm in the middle. Yeah,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: but I'm special because I'm the special because I'm the
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: only girl. So we'll talk about that later. So you
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: you moved from Alabama, you moved to Atlanta, and if
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: you go on line, there was a moment where there
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: was a school presentation that changed the course of your history. Right. So,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: freshman in high school, there's a career planning class that
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: was a prerequisite, right, And you know I loved music.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: For me, being this, you know, young kid with the
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: name whatever, I just felt awkward growing up as a
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: lot of people do. Music was how I connected and
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: how I felt like I've related to a lot of
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: other people. Right. So I was always the girl that
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: was like writing down all the lyrics. I was a
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: writer myself. I would journal, et cetera. I loved music.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: I lived in breathe music. I tried to sing. I
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: sang in talent shows. That didn't really work for me
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: because I'm toning up, you know that whole thing. But um,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: freshman year in high school, I'm taking this class, the
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: career planning class. And my teacher asked me what I
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: want to do when you had to pick three different things,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: and everything was music related. But I only knew about
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: music production or what I would read about in the fanzines.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: I think I said publicity. Um, And at the time
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: she had a woman that Shaunty DAWs, who was the
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: head of promotions for La Face Records at the time,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: come and speak in our class. And this woman was
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: the coolest, most confident, strong black woman I had ever seen.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: And she was just, you know, fly to me. I
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: grew up loving like TLC and Aaliyah and like the
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Fuji's and you know, um that was like my thing is.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: So I'm saying this woman and she works in promotions,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: I have no idea what it is. So i go
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: up to her at the end of class and I'm like,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: can I shadow you for a day? And She's like, okay,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: if your parents are okay with it. I asked my
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: parents and she let me come shadow her on the
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: day that her assistant was outsick. So I was answering phones,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: et cetera, right, and and I was good at it.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: So she said, as you know, I could come up
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: during the summer as long as my parents were okay
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: with them. My parents were like, we need to meet her.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: And she actually was from my neighborhood. And so she
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: came to my house and met my parents and they
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: gave my blessed, gave gave the blessing and them I
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: interned that summer. And this was like the heyday of
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: the Face was a full record label. I mean, they
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: had they were with Ariston, but they had an and
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: our department, a production department, and marketing department, the video
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: depart I mean they were a full fledged record label
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: and Buckhead Atlanta and at the time they had Outcast
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: TLC Tony Braxton. These were huge artists. Um that summer
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: I got to go to like the Outcast Southern Play
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Realistic Cookout. I'll never forget it because I got to
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: invite my eight friends. Right, I was like the coolest
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: person ever. And my older brother who was a freshman
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: in college at the time, took me and was like
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: the chaperone and we were doing everything from like stuffing
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: bags whatever. But the work we were doing was just
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: it was incredible to be around it. I remember seeing
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Biggie Smalls there, Buster Rans there, and this was when
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Puff was about to start building the you know bad Boy.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: I remember the Craig the Big Mac tape. It was
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: promoting Craig Mac and Biggie's Malls at the same time.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: So I was around that as a kid at fourteen.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: It was it was yeah, it was. It was really incredible,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: and Outcast to me was, you know, my favorite hip
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: hop group. They were UM produced by a production team
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: called Organized Noise that was also from Southwest Atlanta, who
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: I just had such a high regard for and I
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: loved their you know, their musical talent and gift. And
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: before I could drive, I would have my father drive
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: me on Sundays by their studio because I knew where
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: it was. I'm like, Daddy, can we drive? You know?
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: But because to me it was amazing to know that
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: the music that was touching the world in my eyes
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: was like happening right out of my neighborhood. So it
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: gave me this sense of hope that I could be
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: a part of that in some way. We'll take a
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: quick break and come back with more of my conversation
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: with Ethiopia to Marry Him recording to the Music Media
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Summit in Santa Barbara, California. This podcast is brought to
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: you by tune In, which brings together all the live, sports, music,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: news and podcasts you love, original, live and on demanded audio,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: all in one place. Go to tune in dot com
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: slash left sense to download and listen. Okay, let's get
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: back to my conversation with Ethiopia. Have to marry him
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: in front of a live audience at my Music Media
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Summit in Santa Barbara, California. Okay, you know, traditionally, growing
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: up with immigrant parents can be difficult. They're strict, they
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: come from a different background. Did you experience any of that, yes,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: But also so I never got a chance to go
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: back to Ethiopia until I was older, until I was
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: like maybe twenty three. And I didn't know why, because
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: my father is the dean at this, you know, university.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: I'm like, we're pretty well off, you know, I'm thinking
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: we are, but we're really not. We should be giving
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: my dad's position. Um. But it wasn't until I went
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: back home that I realized my father was taking care
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: of a lot of people, a lot of family members.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: We have a huge family there, but here we did not.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: I didn't know many family members. When my friends would
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: have family reunions and things, I couldn't relate to that
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: experience at all because I only knew my two aunts
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: on my father's side and my you know, my aunts
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: and uncles on my mom's side. But we had a
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: huge family, and my father was taking care of everyone,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: not only on his side of the family, but also
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: my mother side of the family. They were really all
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: one family back in Ethiopia, and so my father worked
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: so much that he wasn't, you know, as tough on
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: me because he was just working all the time. But
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: also I was a really good kid, like I didn't
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: want to every disappoint my father or my parents at all.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: And my mom she was probably stricter on me as
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: mothers would be. Right, Um, but she got sick when
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: I was in high school and with us, yeah, she
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: got sick when I was in high school, and um,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: she wasn't at present, So you know, I really had
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: a lot of freedom. And so what are your siblings
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: doing today? My older brother is still in Atlanta. He
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: works at the Fox Theater there running production on that side.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And then my little brother, um, graduated from the University
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: of Georgia. He actually took this year off to help
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: my father. My father got diagnosed with Parkinson's in November,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: so he's had to retire. My little brother is there
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: helping him, you know, deal with stepping down from being
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: at the university, et cetera. My little brother is like
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: an angel. He's brilliant, but also like this amazing, amazing
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: kid man. But okay, so your parents have a big
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: insistence on education because your father, Yes, so when I was.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: You know, when I was younger, my father would like,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: go to Boston. We'd go visit like M I T
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: and Harvard or whatever. My father wanted me to either
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: be a lawyer or be a scientist, et cetera. Um,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: And I thought for a second mate about being a lawyer.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: But once I got introduced to music, that was all
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: she wrote. That was it. Um. But I won't lie.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: It wasn't It wasn't that easy. So when I, you know,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: I go through high school, I graduate, and and and
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: so I in turned out LA Face and I just
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: get into the music community there. There's so much happening.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: And then I found out about this internship program. I
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: got a paid internship when I was sixteen at Electoral Records,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: the satellite office there in Atlanta. UM. I graduated at seventeen,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I get hired as an assistant at LA Face in
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: the production department, which wasn't really sexy, but I was
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: making a check and then I could still help out
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: in marketing and promotions or whatever. Um. So I did that,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: but my father was like, no, you have to go
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: to college. I'm like, just give me a year that like,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: let me just see how this goes. It might turn
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: into something, and he was pretty supportive of that. My
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: mom not so much. But she had gone to Ethiopia
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: to go visit the family that first year, so she
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: didn't really like get to um told me back then,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So my dad was coming
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: back and forth from Alabama, and I was just working,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: and I really just worked my butt off. I did everything.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I would babysit to make extra money, and that led
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: to other opportunities. I ended up working opportunities. Okay, So
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I babysitting for the woman named Lronda Sutton who started
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: l A Read's publishing company, hit Co Music Publishing. Okay,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: she started it, and it was in the LaFace office.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: She was fabulous. She would walk past my cubicle and
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: she would say things to me, like you're gonna work.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: You're gonna work for me. One day. I like how
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: you answer phones. I was like, okay, that's good, you know.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: And so she was a single mother there and needed help,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: and so I was working as assistant. I would leave,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: I would babysit for her until she was able to
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: come home, and then at night I'd be in the
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: clubs doing whatever. So when LaRonda left, hit coach. She
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: went to Edmunds Music Publishing in Los Angeles, and she
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: told me I'd make a great I'd be a great
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: music publisher. She knew my taste. I would play her records, etcetera.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: And she was the one that offered me an opportunity
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: to work in publishing at Emmon's Music Publishing, and that's
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: how I got the job there. Okay, So you never
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: do go to college, never do go to college, and
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: any regrets there? Okay? No, However, I don't think it's
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: for you. I don't think that's the route for everyone.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: And I do think education is important as long as
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: you know your interests and like the things that you
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: want to learn about. I think I'm in a at
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: a at a point in my life where there are
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: other things that I'm interested in that I would want
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: to like go back to school to learn about. But
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: no regrets. Okay. So you're in Atlanta, you're working in
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: La Face, You're starting as an assistant answering phones, what's
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: the next step up the ladder. At the same time
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: that I was doing that, I was helping out in marketing.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I was helping out in the promotions department, and I
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: was doing a lot, and I wanted a full time
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: job in marketing. I wanted to be in marketing. The
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: general manager there at the time, though, was like, you know,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: you need to go to college. We're not gonna hire
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: you full time. You need to go to college. And
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, my father isn't even
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: making me go to college. And I had the support
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: of all the executives there, etcetera. And I remember, do
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: you guys remember the Impact Music Convention? Yeah, so I remember, Yeah,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: I wrote, I wrote the g M a proposal and
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: I said, I sent it to him and I said,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: this is why I L Facial sponsored me going to
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the Impact Music Convention UM and so they paid for
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: my travel and my registration to go to the convention.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: And he was like, when you come back, you have
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: to make a decision if you're going to go to school,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: you know, or if you're just going to continue on
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: here working part time, but I'm not hiring you full time.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: And I came back and I was like, I quit.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: I didn't have a job in place, by the way,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was gonna do, but I
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: just felt like they didn't really value me. And I
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: wasn't gonna be forced, you know, into being a scenario.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: I had to stay a part time. I was doing
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: a lot for the company at the time. Um oh,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: I remember when I was I met a guy named
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Doug Brown. Doug Brown was partners with Johnny Wright. They
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: were managing Left Eye as a as a solo artist
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: at the time, and I was like the only person
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: that was like nice to him because LA didn't know
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: who Johnny Wright was and who Dug Brown was, and
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: they were like, who the hell are these people managing
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Left Eye. I was a nice person to him, So
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: I got introduced to in Sync through that relationship. I
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: quit and started working with in syncing their charity organization,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: like helping them put their charity like organization together celebrity
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: basketball games parties. My goal was to like infuse the
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: cool urban scene in Atlanta to what InSync was doing.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: But this was like right at the beginning. So I
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: would get like Germaine dupri and people like that to
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: come playing their games and stuff, and I just made
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: extra money doing that until I could figure out what
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I was gonna do next. And what did you figure
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: out you wanted to do. That's when Lo Rhonda offered
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: me the job of music publishing. And how long after
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: you quit was that that was probably a year and
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: a half. Okay, that was in Atlanta. That was in Atlanta,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: and at the time, my father was very supportive. I
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: remember the sky Tell two A pagers. I told my dad,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: I said, Daddy, if I'm gonna make it, you have
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: to buy me a sky Tell tway pager. You have
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: to have one in order to be in the music business.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: So he bought me a sky Tell two A pager.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: He bought me a Fox a fax machine that I
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: had in my bedroom and I had like I always had,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: like the latest computer because my father had him from
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: work and I would I would just work from my
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: from my bedroom. Your father actually was very supportive, was yeah, okay,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: so you work in publishing. What do you learn immediately?
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Work publishing? Right, because I didn't know. I didn't know
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: what publishing was when I took the job. So I
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: was a song plugger. Basically, etmus Music Publishing was baby
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Face and Tracy Etmun's publishing company. It was administered through
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: m I and UM. They had about ten writers signed
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: to them at the time, and when I got there,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: the job was to really build morale amongst the writers
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: into help shop their songs. But it was a tough
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: situation because I think a lot of the writers were
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: under the impression that they would be writing with baby
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Face and that was not the case. He didn't he
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: didn't deal with them at all. So it was a
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: little tough and I tried my best. I did. I
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: were put together writing camps. This is like really like,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: you know, two thousand, two thousand and one, putting together
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of writing camps, etcetera with them. Um and
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I would go to New York and shop records, you know,
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: And I knew I wanted to be in New York
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: because that's where it was all happening and in the
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: industry at the time. Um I will say this happened
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: so I I because my relationship with in Sinc. They
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: were working on their last album at the time, and
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: um I was able to get a track placed on
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: their last album with some producers that were actually signed
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: to Universal Publishing, and one of them had worked with
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: one of my writers at Edmonds And it was a
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: huge deal because these producers hadn't really been that active
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: on the Universal side, and um I got this placement
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: for Instinct. It was a really big deal. And I
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: remember Tom Sturgions, who was at Universal Publishing at the time,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: wanted to know how that happened because he couldn't believe
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: these producers got to cut on this sinc. And I
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: got the call from Universal because he wanted to meet
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: with me and they offered me a job. That's yeah,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: that's when. That's when I first got a job. I
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: had only been at Edmunds though for maybe eight months,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm still learning what publishing is.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: I can't leave. I don't I'm not ready for this,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: but thank you, you know. And I was loyal to
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: the opportunity that I had an MS. I stayed there
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: for two years. Then an opportunity came about in New
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: York at Universal Publishing. I got hired there as a
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: creative manager like a year and a half later. Being
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: a single woman now moving to New York. It was
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, I was making no money. I think I
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: was probably making forty five dollars a year. Um, it
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: was hard. It was extremely hard. I remember time was
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: walking out of that building at like it's raining, the
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: wind is blowing, and like literally just crying because it
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: was tough and I was broke. I had to take
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: the ferry across Jersey. You know. It was tough. It
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: was really really tough, but I made it work. And um,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: the first first person I sawned was Joe Button. He
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: had this track called Pump It Up that was exploding
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: at the time. I also found that, like, there weren't
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of fans of the publishing company at the
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: time when I got there, Like Kedar Massenburg was there.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: He was a bit of an asshole. Uh. He remember
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: him saying, seeing these are people I would read about two.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: So I was like excited when I was seeing him
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: in the hallway and Kadar was like, oh, yeah, you
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: work for the publishing company. Yeah, fuck them, And I'm
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: like what you know what I mean? Like that, that
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: was my introduction to some of the people because they
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: just didn't support what we were doing at the publishing company.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: So it was um. I learned a lot during those
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: first couple of years, and uh I went back to
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Atlanta a lot too, though, because the music scene was
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: always happening there because of my relationships that I had
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: when I was coming up and I was young when
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: I got the job in Publishing Ludicrous. Ludicrous had been
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: a DJ on the radio and on air, part personality
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: when I got the job. He's huge now. He left
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: E M I Publishing and came and signed with me
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: at Universal, which was a big deal at the time.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: And from that David supported me and signing new things
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: that I wanted to develop to develop. So that was
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: his producer Polodon, who went on to have like huge
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: hits with Pussycat Dolls, Um Fergie, et cetera. I signed
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: a writer named Carry Hilton who records was like Timberland,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: like the way I are. She wrote records for Ussher, Sierra, etcetera.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: But these were I signed them before they all had
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: these hits. How did you find them? They were in Atlanta.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: I knew Polo from my younger years in Atlanta being
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: on the scene. He was an artist, an aspiring hip
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: hop artist and had started producing music and when I
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: when I heard his beat, so I was like, okay,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: these are great. So when I signed Ludicrous, I immediately
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: signed him after that because I had the trust of David.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: He was like, you brought in this huge deal. You know,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I had the the leeway to sign new and developing
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: things too. And it ended up actually Polo had a
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: hit on on Ludicrous, and then Carrie started having hits, etcetera.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: And I just started building my roster from there. And
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: how did you end up in l A the mostown gig?
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: So you in New York told the mostown gig? Yes, okay,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: so you're working in publishing. You foresee the that your
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: career is going to be in publishing. I did. Actually
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I dibbled and dabbled in an R. So I signed
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: an artist named Sierra to a publishing deal. Um. She
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: had a lot of success with her first record, and
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: she was making she was supposed to make her second album,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: and she didn't have a great relationship with the label,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: UM because her A R guy that was there wasn't
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: there anymore. And so because I'm her publisher, she wants
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: me to A and R the record. I've never done
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: an R before. I was like, all right, we're gonna
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: give this a go. And that's how I learned a R.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Like working with her and doing the second album, I
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: knew Barry Weiss through that dynamic, and we had a
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: lot of success with the second album, and um yeah,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: because I remember we came out the same day once
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Definding was putting out her solo record, and we beat
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: her like we came in number one. We had a
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: lot of you know, And that's how I got my
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: introduction into A and R. Were you making now? I've
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: been promoted because I had some success. I think I
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: was probably a senior actor or something like that at
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: the time. Um, So I did A and R and
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: I liked it. It It was a lot had a lot
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: of respect for an R. Like as a publisher you
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: really feel like you're at the ground level because you're
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: working with creators and songwriters and you really know what's next.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Before I thought always before labels, did you know? Um?
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: And in some cases you do because you have a
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: lot more time to develop and nurture things, whereas at
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: a label it can be really difficult. You just have
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: to know how to manage your roster and manage your
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: time in order to do both right. Um. But as
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: a publisher you definitely have more time to nurture and
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: develop talent overall. And um, when I got into A
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: and R, I love the process of helping to make
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: a body of work and helping an artist see their
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: full vision come to life. So how many years were
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: in New York at Universal Publishing. I've just I just
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: segued from being in a dual role between Universal Publishing
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: and the label because I was made an e v
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: P of Urban Co head of the creative department probably
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: five years ago, six years ago, I can't keep track
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: of the time. That probably about six years ago, and
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I segued out of the publishing company like a year ago.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: So what is the dream for you personally? Ship? Um?
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: The dream for me personally, you know, to find balance,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: right to like joy. I love what I do in music,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: and you know, growing as a music executive as you
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: move up the corporate ladder, you see yourself kind of
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: getting sometimes away from the process, the creative process that
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: you loved and enjoyed it. For me, it's about having
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: a better balance between both because that creative process is
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: actually what fuels me, you know what I mean. Like
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: I love making the records, connecting with the talent, etcetera.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: And so just having more of a balance of that.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: This is all a part of my life. Um so yeah, okay,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: but is there time for romance? Yeah? There is, Okay,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: make time for that. Yeah, I mean I was I
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: was engaged, so I was engaged five years ago and
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: I called it off. He wasn't the right one, And
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: was that he in the music business. Yes, okay, let's
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: leave it there. Let's leave it there. So at least
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: he understood your lifestyle. Yeah, okay. So is now as
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: we keep creeping in your biological imperative? Is new? Clock
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: is ticking louder? Does that bother you? If you didn't
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: have children? Would that be? Okay? What type of citizen? No?
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: The point is you're a very powerful, strong executive, your
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: role model for people. The question can you do it all? Yeah?
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: I do think you can do it all for me.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: It's I've never looked at it like I couldn't. You know.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. I never looked at it
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: like I couldn't. I'm I was a helpless romantic. I'm like,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: I never believed that I couldn't have it all. You know,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: I don't really subscribe to those thoughts or ideas. Yes,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: I can't have it all. I just has to be
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: with the right person. Okay, so said By the way,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: he's stud I'm like, right, he's stunding my dad. We'll
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: take a quick break and come back with more of
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: my conversation with Ethiopia, have to Marry Him? Recording it
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: the music media stummit in Santa Barbara, California. This week
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: I'm speaking with the president of Motown Records. Two weeks ago,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I had Moby from the l A Times Festival Books,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: and last week we heard Brazilian legend Gilberto Joe, who
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: welcomed me into a video in the hills of Rio
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: de Janeiro. Be the first to hear next week's episode
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: by subscribing to the podcast on tune in, Apple Podcast
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: or your podcast player of choice. Check out the first
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: twenty interviews, and please rate and review the podcast. Okay,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: let's get back to my conversation with Ethiopia, have to
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Marry Him in front of a live audience at my
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: music media summit in Santa Barbara, California. Being a powerful
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: black woman in society and uh, there's a lot of
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: attention paid attention to you know, pointed at you. And
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: do you feel responsibility to be a role model? I
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: I have to live my life for me, yes, I do.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: But but I feel a responsibility to myself first. Um,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: and I can't really get too caught up in that,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: but I of course I'm aware that people look up
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: to me, because I know that there were people that
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: I looked up to. But you quickly learn that you can't,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: you know, idolize people, or you can't think that people
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: won't make mistakes. And so I just want to be
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: comfortable with the decisions that I make from my life.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: And I've gotten to a place where I'm like, i
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: gotta do what's right for me. And do you feel
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: any responsibility with your position and power to impact other
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: parts of the culture. Definitely, and what does that look like? Um?
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: For me, it's about how I relate to the artists
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: and talent that I deal with their times when they
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: can be going through through certain things in their life
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: where I think the artists have the biggest platforms to
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: really affect change um. And so I know the conversations
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: that I have in the background, or if I'm helping
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: them through situations in their own life to get them
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: to a place that they that they can create art
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: that I know will affect people. UM. So you find
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: you're actually leading the act as opposed to the act
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: leading you. It depends on the scenario or or the
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: In certain situations, it may have been the writer like
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: there have been times I've been in sessions where artists
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: maybe I know that they're emotionally in a certain place
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: in their lives and and they don't have a good translator.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: So it's my job to identify the right people to
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: have in the room to help bring that out of
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: them and then to translate what what I know will
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: come out and connect to other people. And that's that's
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: a gift, you know what I mean, And it's worked
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. And then also you know,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: I have I have this writer named Sebastian cole right,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: thirty five year old black man from Birmingham, Alabama. I
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: figned him when he was like, you know, living out
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: of his car and Los Angeles, drove to l A
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: to pursue his dreams, etcetera. He went on to write
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: like the Alestia Carra hits like you know here, Scarcy,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: you're beautiful, etcetera, etcetera. To me, that feels like my
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: contribution to the culture as well, because I know that
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: someone like him would not have normally gotten an opportunity
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: to get the kind of deal that he got in
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: that belief early on, I mean, I signed him way
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: before there was the smashes, etceteran. So I feel very
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: privileged because I'm able to provide those opportunities for people
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: that I know have the gift and then helping them
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: get to a place where they can create music that
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: will touch people. Um So, whether it was a Sebastian
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: or it was you know, these writers from Atlanta and
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: the rock city who went on to be huge pop songwriters.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: You know, that's a gift for me because I know
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: that normally they wouldn't get those shots. And to what
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: degree do you feel racism in the music industry? Okay,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: so I'll be honest about it, because I have to
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: be Racism wasn't something that I had thought about in
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: the industry for a long time. When you put your
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: head down and just do the work and you're working
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: so much, it wasn't something that I had thought about.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: So it wasn't until I got the Motown gig that
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: it came up for me. Now, when I was pursuing
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: my career in music, I read every trade magazine and
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: and you know, there were the people I looked up to.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: It was an artist, it was other executives that I
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: you know, so there were a lot of women of
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: color that were in senior roles on the A and
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: R side, across all the labels, right in the publishing companies, etcetera.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: And Um, I never looked at it like there being
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: an issue before. When I got the job at Motown,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: I was originally hired as an s VP of n
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: R Motown was UH moved under Island def jam Um,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: and I remember the switch. I remember the conversations changing
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: where people were pointing out to me the lack of
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: black executives in the music business, and have you noticed
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: the change, etcetera. And I started noticing that there was
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: a change. You know, there was a lot of conversation
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: around the role at death sham Um and I hadn't
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: really thought about it in that way before because I
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: was I wasn't a person who thought about like because
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: I was a woman, or because I was black, I
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: wouldn't ever make it. And this is from me as
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: a kid. I never thought about those things. And it
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: may have been because I was in Atlanta where I
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: was surrounded around a lot of success, a lot of
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: huge success, but around people that looked like me, so
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: I never thought it would be an issue. I moved
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: to New York still didn't think it was an issue,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: and then I noticed that there was a change. Also,
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Urban music got to a place where we were making
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: as much money, right, So I choose to take the
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Motown to do be in this dual role. I became
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: a very successful music publisher and then having success doing
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: A and R as well. I also managed Carry Hilton.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: She went from being a songwriter to an artist. I
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: helped her get her deal and then managed her and
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: addition to being a publisher, right, so I got to
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: grow and see a lot as a creative executive and
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: I became very powerful in the business. But then I
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: took this role at Motown and things were changing. You
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: could have a number one urban record and it didn't
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: equit to anything, right, So the power base changed and
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: it became a real issue for the lack of black
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: executives in the business. You just saw like a complete
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: shift happening, and it wasn't really spoken about. You just
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: felt it, and there were a group of a group
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: of people that would talk about it a lot um.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: And I had to educate myself. I had mentors and
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: I still have a mentor in my life, Clearance Avon,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: that just educated me on the history of the business
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: and things that had happened before UM and looking at
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: what was happening, you know, at the time, and what
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: is what's happening currently. But I do feel a real
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: responsibility for making sure I create opportunities for people that
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: look like me. I remember, you know, at one point,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: UM renegotiating with my deal at Universal Publishing and Jay
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Brown Right Nations. So when I respect UM and admire,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: I'm having hits after hits after hits, and it's so
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: it's Polo having hits. Ester Dean, my songwright, you know,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Esterdin is one of my songwriters. She's having a lot
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: of hits. And he said to me, he said, he
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: has them take urban out of your title. Because I
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: was like the head. He's like, have them take urban
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: out of your title. You know, all your writers are
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: writing all the pop hits. And I was like, shit, okay,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: I didn't really think about that. And then I remember
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: speaking to another friend of mine and he was like, well,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: if you do that, will there'll be a responsibility at
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: these companies for them to hire people that look like you.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, yeah, you're right. So
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I kept it in my title. It's not something that
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I run away from. UM, I'm I'm proud of the
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: culture that I come from. You know, I'm clearly ether
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: up in American but I grew up in the South
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: and you know, all black neighborhood, etcetera. But my experiences
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: and and things that I went through as a kid
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: are very similar to what a lot of other people
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: went through. Doesn't but but my culture and what I
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: lived and breathe is I'm I'm fining to represent that,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: and I'm fining to give opportunities for talent that also
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: come from that same culture as well. And I think
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: it's important that had to have people inside of the
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: companies that can relate to it on that level, not
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: just look at it through a computer screen or through
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: their phones and say, oh, I'm urban because I'm watching
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: your culture, you know what I mean, but not really
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: having understood it or lived it or breathed it. And
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: I think that there's a responsibility to these companies to
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: know the difference UM and have people in there that
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: actually like are from it. And what about being a
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: woman in the music industry and a woman in society,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: especially in the light of the me too uh movement
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: in the last eight months or so. UM, I mean,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of similar in that let's start
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: from have you personally, not that we need details, had
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: bad experiences. I have had bad experiences, not a lot
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: of them. I've had situations more with you know, sometimes
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: with like aggressive talent or aggressive there's been this weird
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: thing that might happen with talent where there they feel
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: like you're there's you know what I mean, like because
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: you're a woman, or you might be nurturing, etcetera. They
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: get they get those lines blurred or whatever, and then
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: you have to check them. But I've always been a
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: person that's been about checking them. Even when, like there
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: was a time I was doing street promotions and I
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: would come across situations dealing with promoters or etcetera. I
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: had no problem checking them. Let's just to be clear,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: because I'm a male and we're on the other side
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: of the fence, give me an illustration of what checking
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: somebody would be like. UM, I'm gonna tell I'm gonna
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: tell you a story. I'm gonna tell you a story
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: about when I was at LA Face and in addition
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: of being a production assistant, I was also doing promotions
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: and produce, street promotions, etcetera. And I remember going to
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: North Carolina or South Carolina or something with some of
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: my girlfriends that were helping me for this party that
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: we were doing, and we had to deal with the
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: promoter and he had his friends so they we have
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: a successful event. They decided to show up to our
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: hotel room and a few of my friends had been drinking.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: We had ordered room service. So I'm the person that
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: knew to just like grab one of the knobs and
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: put it under the pillow just in case anything gets crazy, right,
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Just That's just how I was. But and I think
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: the guys thought it was gonna be a another kind
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: of situation. I'm like the one that like, get up,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: get the funk out of here, you know what I mean, Like,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: how dare you even try? This? Was like a you know,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: it was one of those situations where I work for
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: the Face Records. I'm here too, you know, as someone
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: that's working on this event. How dare you try us?
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: And they really felt like, because my friends were there
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: and they were you know, being social, that it could
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: be something more. And the I think the moment you
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: allow the lines to get a little blurred, people feel
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: like they can really test you and take it there,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: and you just can't be afraid to speak up and say,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to allow that to happen. And I've
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: had other extreme situations as I've gotten older, where you've
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: had to just deal with it in the immediate and no,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: not to let things even get to the point where
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: they could get blurred. Has the opposite been true ever,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: where you say, well, the lines may be blurred, but
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: this will work to my advantage career wise. So I
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: don't want to cross the line, but I'm willing to
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: ride with it. No, like just letting people get away
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: with things because it's gonna work for my career. It's
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: interesting culturally, I think this is you know, it's it's
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: very illustrative. I think, I mean, I don't know the
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: way you're saying white women seem to you know, it
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: seems like the strong black woman. The image is like
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: they're shutting it down, and uh, I mean, well, and
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you it's for me. It was really about respect.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: It was really about respect because I respect myself within
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: my career and I want you want, I want you
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: to respect me as an executive first, like I never
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: wanted it. I would never want them to think it
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: could be anything else. You know. Um, I will tell
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: you there was a time with a producer that I
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: worked with where I think he felt because we worked
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: very closely with him, he felt like the relationship was
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: more than what it was. And I was like, are
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: you fucking delusional? You know what I mean? And it's
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: really because it can become an intimate dynamic when you're
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: you know, if they get to call you at three
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: in the morning and you're making yourself available to talk
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: through a concept or idea, but you don't have any
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: romantic feelings for them, It's not anything like that. It's
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: a part of the r of being an n R
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: or making records, etceter Or you go through that, you
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. But this fool lost his mind,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: like in the moment you're in a relationship. It's like
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: he couldn't handle it. He couldn't handle me being in
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: a relationship. He felt like I whatever. And I was like,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: are you out of your mind? Um? And he was.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: And then that went I mean, are you one of
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: a kind or your friends as strong as you are? Listen,
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna try and come off as like I'm
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: a super strong person all the time. That's not my truth.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: That's not my truth. Um, I do think I'm one
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: of a kind. Okay, And uh, you know, if if
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: you look at what happened in Ferguson and now that
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: everyone has a phone in their camera, we see all
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: these racial elements and then we have Kanye saying George
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Bush doesn't like black people, and now he's cozying up
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: to Trump. Okay, I guess these are two questions. You
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: might mix the answers together. But is there an inherent injustice?
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Because African American culture is ruling the culture, so it's
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: kind of ironic that it's not getting the respect economically
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: and culturally in terms of equality. Right, So what's the question?
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Question is, first, do you personally feel that injustice of
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: being a black person in America? And are you taking
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: any steps or contamable in any steps to rectify that? Yes?
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: And what might they look like? Yes? Yes, I do
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: feel the injustices that exist. Um, what steps in my taking?
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: I mean if you look at it as a white person,
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: we're listening to iced tea and we'll you know, fuck
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: the police, etcetera, n w A and all of a sudden,
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: the Rodney King think happens. Holy shit, everything in the
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: records was true. Okay, so there's a catch shop. And
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: I still believe there's an education that the white people
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: need that. So I have friends that are white, that
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: are Asian, etcetera. And I find myself, you know, I
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: have one of my closest friends as a white woman
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: who only dates black or Latino man. Right, and as
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: this conversation and the incidents that have happened over the past,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: I say, it's been five years, etcetera. UM, having to
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: educate her about what that would mean. I'm like, if
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: you have a kid, you're gonna have a black son,
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about what that experience will be like
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: and what how you'll have to handle that as a mother. UM.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: And I feel like it's my responsibility to really educate
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: the people that I'm around and not and and to
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: not do it, to not make them feel like they
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: can't talk to me about it, you know what I mean?
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: If I can be the person to try and be
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: a bridge and educate the people that I know do
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: have good hearts but don't really understand, because I think
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: that we're all out of place racism is real, but
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: I'm I also know I'm I'm an empathy and I
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: learned that about myself pretty early on. I know about
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: humanity and I connect to human beings. That's who I am.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: That's how I connect to music. That's how I know
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: we're really all the same. Um. If I have the
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: opportunity to get you to understand who I am, who
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: my people are, and I can connect with you because
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: I really do have compassion for other people, no matter
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: what your races, no matter what you're going I'm like
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: one of those people that cry at a commercial if
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: I feel like if I see someone i'm I really
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: do feel it. UM. I want to be that bridge
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: to educate them, and to be honest with you, I'm
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: trying to find other ways to make a difference, you know,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: because it's not just the typical tweet something or post
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: something and say it's this. How do you really um?
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: I think you know, it's about kids feeling like they
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: can communicate amongst each other and educate them without them
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: feeling isolated. I'm trying to find the right way to
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: go about it, honestly, But I do think and how
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: I carry myself on an everyday basis, how how I
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: dial with my coworkers, how I operate could be an example. Okay,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: you talked about having mentors. Are you now a mentor
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: yourself to certain individuals? Yeah? I am. Um. You know,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: there was a point at the publishing company where my
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: whole urban department it was all women, but a diverse
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: group of women of you know, white women, there was
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: an Asian woman whatever. And it wasn't by design. It
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: wasn't because I was like, I'm gonna have a department
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: of all women. These are just really dope people. And
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: I looked up one day and they were. It was
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: all women. I had other people at other publishing companies
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: coming to me and saying like, how did you you know?
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: Like you have a whole squad. I was like. The
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: one person said to me, like, you guys are the
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: pink ladies. You should have jackets. I was like, Okay,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: you're a fucking asshole, but you're actually right. It would
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: actually look dope if we showed up like that, right.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: But because I didn't even notice that they were all
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: women and they were really doping this you know several
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: years ago. Um, and and all of those those women
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: I mentor and other young women reach out to me
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: all the time. One of the things I pride myself
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: and is helping to develop other executives. So when I
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: was coming up, one of the things I noticed, I
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: don't think a lot of people talk about this, is
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: that you come across people that don't want to help
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: other people, or people that feel um intimidated because they
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: may be getting older, etcetera. That this young person coming
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: up is gonna take my job. They operate from an
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: insecure place. And I was like, I'm never going to
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: be that person ever, ever, ever, because I experienced it myself,
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: and so I made it a point to you know,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: I've I've kind of been known as a person that
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: will grow people from assistance etcetera into being you know,
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: vice president's etcetera. And so I'm proud that I've been
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: able to do that and help other people get opportunities
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: at other companies. I'm proud of that. For those of
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: us who live through the sixties, music played a big
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: part in terms of the at the I'm called the revolution.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: We can debate the effect of the revolution, but certainly
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: the Vietnam War was stopped in music helped, so there
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: was the invasion of Iraq in the beginning of the century,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: and everyone said, where's the protest music? And there wasn't
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: any protest music. Now, in light of all if Trump
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: and all this craziness, people are saying, where is the
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: protest music? But in reality that's a white perspective. The
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: white people, the white acts are really not making protest music.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: But run the Jewels are a million African American acts.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: What is it going to take for one of those
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: songs to become any anthem? I think it has to
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: be a great song. Do you think we haven't found
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: these songs yet? I don't. I don't know if we have.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know if we've come across. I don't know
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: if we have the music yet that's can connect to
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: all people. Also, you know, the people of influence that
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: can really create the music that can you know, connect
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: all of us. I don't think that they've gone there yet.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: I think that we need music that really relates to
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: what we're all experiencing and we haven't seen or experience
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: like the talent that's created that that can be the
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: right vessel for it. And when you have people like
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: a Kanye doing the Crazy Ship that he's doing. Um,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: I think it. Um, He's confused a lot of people.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: He's confused a lot of artists about where to stand.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: And you know, I agree with you. We are missing
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: out on the protest music. We're all we're missing out
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: on the music that really speaks to what's happening in
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: this country. And I don't know why it's not. I
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: don't know why it's not being created, you know what
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: I mean. I don't know why people aren't being honest
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: in their music and not really expressing themselves in that
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: way and really making an effort to do it. I
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: think that there's some people that are, but not not
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: the big superstars that we need to If we focus
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: on Kanye forgetting what he's done, you know who knows
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: when this wire is a podcast? But where is what
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: is Kanye's place in African American culture? He's considered to
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: be one of the greats, one of the most influential
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: artists of our time, and you agree with that. So
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: when he comes out and he says things that are
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: pro Trump and he does some crazy stuff, do you
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: think it's an incredible art experienced mind fucking the culture
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: to get people to think or do you believe that
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: he's just lost his mind. He has the right to
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: be approach Trump. I also think that he has the
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: responsibility to be well informed. And I also think that
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: the ego is a powerful, powerful thing, and I think
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: that he's aware of his power. I think that sometimes
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: he's operating from his ego and he's playing with us.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: He's playing with the people that really connected him and
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: that are his fans. And I think that, um, it
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: almost feels like the person that has like the up
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: it's that's kind of like playing with everyone, but he
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: doesn't really understand how much it could affect everybody. I mean,
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: I know people that were really like distraught over the
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: things that he said. And I don't think he's well informed.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: So to say you're operating out of love, but to
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: not at least when you talk about being pro Trump,
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: but not to also say that he's not operated out
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: of love when he's you know, insinuated or or created
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: people to operate from a place of hate. Yet a
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: lot of times it is really kind of crazy, not
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: when you're kind it was let's talk about the music.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: One thing we know students of the game, all of
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: the breakthroughs in new marketing, new exposure have come from
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: the urban side. Okay, so we've had SoundCloud, we've had
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: mixed tapes. Is this something that came up from the
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: ground or is this something you helped make happen and
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: what you have observed has happened. No, it's it came
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: from the round. I mean, mix tapes have always existed.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: People operated from that place, and and um, when streaming
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: came about, it really just created an opportunity for us
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: to see what was already happening on the ground level.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: When SoundCloud and streaming came about, you got to see
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: what was happening on the ground level already with my
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: mix tapes, that Pith, etcetera. Urban music never went away.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: What happened was how do you really monetize the music?
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: Because kids were always listening to hip hop and urban music,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: we just couldn't figure figure out how to make the
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: money from it. So so we had my mix tapes,
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: We had that pif etcetera. Soundfoul came about. Then it
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, you know, these these artists are popping off.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: It's a great form of research. Then then we worked
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: out our deals with Spotify, Apple Music, etcetera. And we
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: got to see how dominant the genre was or the
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: culture was, and um, it changed everything. I mean I
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: lived it from being in a role at you know,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: at Motown where urban music well, I mean it was tough.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: It's shipped for me. I went through a very hard
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: time there to then see the complete shift happen. And
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: it's a complete focus on urban music and culture. Now.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: It's because they get to see the full value, because
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: they see the money coming in now. Well, I mean
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: it's just interesting because while the heritage tracks and the
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: white acts kept complaining they weren't making any money from
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: recorded music, the urban acts went in and fill the
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: void and now own. And they also they knew how
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: to roll up the sleeves and do the work right.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Like they had to operate on a ground level. They
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: had to do the mom and pop circuit. They had
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: to get out there and get on the road, sell music,
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: you know from their trunks or whatever, or you know,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: make their hoodies and T shirts on their own and
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: sell them while they were doing the shows. They did
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: the groundwork. And to be honest with you, it really
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: is a hip hop lifestyle. Um. You know, I've had
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: this conversation with R. And b artists where I feel
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: like they don't have the same work ethic as some
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: of these hip hop artists. Well, they'll go and do
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: everything whatever it takes. They call it the hustle, right,
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: they do it all and they just don't stop. And
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: I think that you have to have that ability, um,
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: and and you gotta have that work ethic in order
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: to make it. Doesn't mean that you have to put
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: out music the same way that they do. You just
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: have to be able to work that hard and do
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: whatever it takes. And that's where you get to see
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: innovation and strategy in different ways to go about putting
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: out records. People talk to me a lot about you know,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: so I did this deal with Quality Control, right, um,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: And we've put out a lot of records with them,
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that we did in our
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: deal with them is we included a distribution element to
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: the deal through Caroline Distribution. And that was on purpose
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: so that they could go bake things that they're used
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: to baking without having the red tape that a major
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: label kind of has. There certain rules and regulations that
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: we have so we can make money off of the
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: things we put put out. But if you have things
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: just on a distribution level, you don't have those same
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: um rules and regulations that get in the way of
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: you putting things out a certain way. But I put
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: that in the deal because we have Caroline distributions so
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: that they still freedom to do what they did to
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: do what they do when for things they're to be
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: very specific, if they're on Modetown as opposed to Caroline,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: what would they be unable to do? Um, put out
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: certain videos on World Star hip Hop, or put out
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: videos on World Star hip Hop, or put out mix
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: tapes on that Piff or my mixtapes. And that's really
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: just because of us not having worked out the deals
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: with them yet to get paid properly. But if it's
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: a distribution deal, um, we don't have to worry about
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: that as much as they deal with that. Let's say
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: you're a star or superstar. You know, the obvious one
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: being Drake. He is now reinvented what a release is.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: He had the mixtape March eight, fourteen months ago. If
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: you're a superstar, do you need an album? I mean,
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: Kanye has been dropping these singles, who knows whether they're
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: joker real, But is a at the label what are
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: you telling the superstars to do. I would want to
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: hear an album from Drake because we're used to hearing
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: albums from him. But he could put out several singles
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: before releasing the full but the full body of work,
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It just depends on who
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: the artist is. It's a different strategy for each act.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: It really is. Let's go be very specific. Is the
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: album dead? Well, if you look at the uh, if
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: you look at the Spotify top fifty, which is consumption, Okay,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: we know that it's a lot of singles. And let's
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: say the Weekend comes out, It'll put out his album
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: and four of the top ten will be weekend tracks, okay,
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: but then they'll fall off okay, and there'll be one
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: track to the next track. We know that people, the
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: customer demands a body of work. If you like something,
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: you want to be able to hear more. What I
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: always do if I an act is new to me,
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: I'll go on Spotify, see what has the most streams,
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: and I'll say I'll play that next. So I definitely
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: wants stuff to be there. But if you go back,
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: you know, before the turn of the century, the game
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: was okay, put out an album in the marketplace, I
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: go single to single, you know, I go fight. But
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: the problem then, and the problem has been exacerbated now
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: in the window when you're not in the marketplace, other
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: people will come and fill that hole and you might
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: be forgotten. So is it better just to be able
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: to release product on a regular basis? I believe it is.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: I think you can do it all if you're a creator.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: So let's say Drake is making an album, he puts
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: out several singles, leads into an album, and then he
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: wants to go and drop other singles after that. He
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: should be able to do that. I think streaming allows
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: us an opportunity to put out music the way that
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: we see fit without there being any fucking rules or
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: regulations to to how we go about it. I think
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: that it's so different now. But when you mentioned Drake
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: before as a fan, you're used to getting full bodies
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: of work from him, and people have bought into that
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: idea and they believe in him in that way. So
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: let's let's say, you know, it's it's it's our responsibility
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: to create new superstars. Right. People want to know what
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: it is you stand for, what do you represent? Etcetera.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: You have to have a body of work or several
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: songs in order to really represent what that is, and
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: it's gonna take time to get there. You gotta put
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: out a lot of music to really convince people to
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: buy in to who you are, what you stand for, etcetera.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: And to want to be in business with that artist,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: to want to like go to the show, to want
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: to watch your performance on the award show, to like
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: buy your merch etcetera. But it's our job to come
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: up with ways to make sure we're telling your full
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: story and getting people to buy into that artist. But
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: to what degree is the label behind in time of
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: the artists? Because what do we know? The label makes
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: their money off recorded music and they have an antiquated concept.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: The more tracks we put out, the more money we
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: can make. Now in today's you know, a lot of
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: these albums you go on Spotify. But I don't think
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: not because I don't think that I don't We don't
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: operate from a place of telling them you have to
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: do it this way though you know what I mean,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: like that you have that you have to put it
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: out this way. I like to work with artists that
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: are self aware enough and know what they what they
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: want to say or put out in the market, and
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: we can help support that and come out with ways
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: to do it. Or if they if they come and
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: play you records and then we talk about a strategy
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: that makes sense for them. But the idea of dictating
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: to an artist what they do and how they go
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: about it doesn't really exist anymore. We can present ideas
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: to them, but you want them to be self aware
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: enough to know what they want to do. What's a
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: full expression? So the artists assigned to you, they've had
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: some success, they come with the record. You don't think
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: the record is up to your standards? Will you say so?
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: And will you refuse to put it out? No, I'll
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: let them bump their heads and fail and let them
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: learn their lesson. The speaking of failures, talking UH to
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: Chris Rue, manager of Logic, and he was saying, how
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: failure is not the disaster that it once was then
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: in the streaming era. If you fail, you can come
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: back and agree. And why do you think that is?
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: Because it's really I think overall is about your resilience, right,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: and so if you keep putting music out, people will
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: catch on eventually, you know, and I think that people
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: have such a short attention span. If something was successful
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: and you come right back with the next project and
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: it is great, you actually have the opportunity to remind
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: people that it's about the music, that it's about how
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: great the music is. And that's what streaming has allowed
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: us to really see that it's about how great the
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: music really is. So you really the failure is really
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: in if you give up, if you just decide that
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: I can't take it. I can't take the opinions of
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: you know, anyone saying that my album was a flop,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: et cetera. Then you just like go into the pression
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: somewhere and don't create great music. You gotta keep going,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: and I think hip hop as a culture has has
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: been operating from that place. And let's say you signed
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: a new ract, what would you tell them to do
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: to get themselves down? Good question, Okay, because I have
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: a few new acts that we're working on um. In
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: addition to the music that they're making right well, I'm
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: also talking about the distribution of set music. They have
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: to speak to their fans and the like, whatever the
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: messaging is in their music, they have to speak to
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: their fans build their fan base and know what it
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: is about them that will make people connect to them
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: and build off of that. I also feel like it's
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: really important to be on the road and develop a
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: touring fan base in addition to putting out music or
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: being on social media. I think oftentimes we've come across
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: artists that might have an incredible social media following and
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: then don't know how to connect to people in real
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: life um. And I think the live show element is
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: a huge part of this, and I think that we
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: need more artists and know how to do that, So
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: I would definitely get them to focus on that. I
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: think more now than ever, we have to make sure
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: we're developing artists that can put together great shows um
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: and knowing knowing how to connect with their fans at
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: the same time. And also, you know, we talk about
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: the fashion element that kind of feeds into music as well,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: like building that out if that if that's right for
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: the artist, So it just depends it's specific to each artist.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: And how about in terms of raw distribution, do you
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: have a new act, would you say to be on
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: SoundCloud first? Would you say to put out a mixtape
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: before you go? Depends on who the artist is. It
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: depends on who the artist is. And the funny thing
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: about what a mix tape is now so crazy what
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: we call things EP, mixtape, project, It all has these labels.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: It's music at the end of the day, so we
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: really just try to title it's something that fits in
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: the scheme of whatever the the artist is ultimately trying
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: to get to. Let's say we're building to an album,
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: or there's an overall theme for several projects they're putting out.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: Will come up with that as opposed to calling it
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: a mix tape. We put out mix tapes and they're
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: really albums and make money on them and they've been
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: successful as if their albums, you know what I mean.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: So it just depends on how you want to And
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: also in the hip hop world, there's very much a
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: culture online. Something comes out, people know and it immediately
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: runs up the Spotify chart. Radio tends to be months behind.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: How important is terrestrial radio in the hip hop world?
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: It's the end goal, that's it. It used to be
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: the place for a discovery, but for us now it's
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: like it's just another, you know, another thing to mention
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: on the hot sheet of all the things that you've achieved,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: but it's the end goal. You know, once you've put
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: a record out, had a lot of success, etcetera, and
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: then it goes to radio, it's just another like another marker.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: I hope you're enjoying this episode of the Bob Left
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: Sets Podcast. If you want to hear sound bites or
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: check out videos and photos of our guests, go to
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: at tune in on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Now more
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: of Ethiopia Hab to Maria, recorded in front of a
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: live audience of the Music Media Summit in Santa Barbara
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: on The Bob Left Sets Podcast. Okay, questions for Ethiopia.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: Razor here, Jim has, Mike's Jake, thanks for coming here.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: Today's quite inspiring. I think, um two things. One comment
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: I want to make to you, Bob, which you've never
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: brought up, is Spotify doesn't actually have an album chart,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: and I think if they had an album chart, maybe
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: we'd know what albums are doing well. Because I just
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: tried to look it up and it doesn't exist. So
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: I think that's the biggest problem is that you can't
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: really talk about albums in reference to Spotify because yeah,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: tracks come out and then they go down. Because that's
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: the process is one single at a time, so maybe
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: we should be pushing them to have an album chart
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: and then maybe would make a difference. Um um um.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: The other thing is, uh, I'm wondering these days, as
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: president of a major label or division of a major label,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: let's say, or major for what it is, how much
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: are you looking at um these bands like The Logics
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: and um um uh these other acts that are kind
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: of doing it on their own first and then coming
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: in with a label, or are you starting right from
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: scratch with bands that have you you found talent, but
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: they have no footprint whatsoever. It's a balance of both
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: for sure. If if there's something that has no following
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: or you like there's nothing going on with them at all,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: if they at least know exactly what they want to say,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: who they are as artists, I'm willing to invest in
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: that if I think the music is incredible, because then
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: I can help develop and cultivate that. And I've done
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: that right. But you're definitely you definitely want to be
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: a part of you know, things that are moving or
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: being created and if you can help amplify it on
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: the global level. I think what Logic is done, It's
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: been incredible UM, but I'm definitely still about development and
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: finding things that are that are great and unique and different.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: How often do you as a label experience the chance
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: the robber paradigm where you want an act in the
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: access No, I want to do it myself. I mean
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: it's come up a lot. It's come up a lot recently.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: I have to be completely honest about that. And so
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: the idea is, you know, what can we offer them
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: and how do we really show what the difference will
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: be if we're involved in their careers or not? Right?
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: And I think that it comes down to the people
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: at the company's It comes down to really showing them
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: the difference and money that they'll be making. I also
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: think it's important to show on a global level what
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: you add to UM to an artist in their overall career.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: It's been a real education process. It's come up a
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: lot where artists have no idea about the global aspects.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: We talk about urban music or hip hop culture being
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: huge is huge around the world, but a lot of
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: the acts don't travel around the world. They don't go
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: really penetrate the markets the way that they should. And
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: so that's been something that I've been working on because
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: I want to show people the difference and not only
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: you know, show money you can make in the market,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: but how you can really increase yourselves, how you can
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: go get big branding deals, how you can really amplify
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: your overall career if you travel um And there are
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of artists who don't see it because they're
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: either just caught up in the perception of what they
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: see on social media and a little bit of money
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: that they're making on the road and they feel like
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: they're popular. That's not real fucking success. Like I think
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: for a lot of these younger kids, they feel like
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: the popularity is what they see on social media. They're
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: hot for the minute. They can go to these parties
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: and they can make a little bit of money on
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: the road and they're in the cool crowd. But you're
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: not really making real money. You haven't achieved real success yet.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: And I think it's important to educate them. We went
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: through an exercise when we were like, let's put real
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: numbers in front of them. But is it affecting royalty
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: rates as you're trying to move these acts? Are you
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: is the label giving up a higher percentage? No, it's
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: just educating them on the more money they can be
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: making and how their sales can be. I mean, I
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: went through it. We we just went through this with
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: me Goes honestly, Um, you know, we've had a very
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: successful album with them with Culture too. I mean, you know,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest about it. Getting them to go to
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: Europe for their European promo run was a real fight,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: but it was an education process for them because they
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: had been with three hundred where they didn't know anything
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: about it. Their last record wasn't fully supported. They didn't know.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: They would just go collect checks to do shows over there,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: but they didn't know about really going to the market,
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: really supporting the record, really doing the shows and how
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: to really connect with the fans there and what that
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: would lead to. They love fashion. Let's go spen a
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: real week in Paris. Let's put a dinner together where
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: we're sitting with these designers and its planning sees that
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: really connect to a bigger thing, you know, like things
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: that can help grow their careers. And that's the add
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: of value that we can bring to them because then
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: they'll have a longer career. It as some more sales
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: for us, you know, Okay, over here, would love to
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: hear a story a time when you were in a
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: room with a contemporary, a hot contemporary artist, and they
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: met an iconic artist, maybe someone from the earlier days,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: something from the city, where you were in that room
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: and you got to see the interaction and I'd love
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: to know what your takeaway was and what the takeaway
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: was for each of the artists. M hmm. Well, okay,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: I've been in the room where we introduce people to
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: Barry Gordy and the you know, the reverence that people
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: have for Mr Gorty is really you know, it's incredible
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: because people don't know what he's like, you you know,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: they have no idea and he's he's pretty charismatic. His
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: memory is incredible. So and I this wouldn't be an artist,
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: but I'm thinking about um the guys some QC and
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: we introduced them to Mr Gordy in the office and
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: what that meant for them. So Quality Control is the
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: label out of Atlanta that has me goes in Yahti
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: and um. As I was trying to redevelop Motown. One
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: of my goals was to use Motown as a platform
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: for other black entrepreneurs that were developing their own companies
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: and so QC was one of them, and I did
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: my deal with them three and a half years ago
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: and Mr Gordy was at the office one day. Steve
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: Brenna and I were meeting with him and the guys
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: some QC were there. This is before things popped off
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: for them, and we had them meet and the level
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: of inspiration, you know, they just look like little kids,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: you know, meeting there. You know the person they looked
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: up to the most. It just and and he named So.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: The funny thing is, as they're talking, I knew this,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: but we never talked about it before. Mr Gordy tells
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: them that he called his A and R meetings the
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: quality control meetings, and like it was the big aha
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: moment for them. They're like, oh, this is meant to be,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: Like this is everything is aligned And even though we
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: weren't having success, Yeah, I think we all knew, like
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: it's gonna come, that's gonna happen, and that was That
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: was a pretty cool moment that happened a few years ago. Okay,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: get a Mike, writer's next, But I have a Mike,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: so I'm gonna ask I was going to ask the
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: question that you just kind of brought up, which was,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: you know, when you go and visit When you go
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: and visit Disney, no one's ever said louder gym before.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: Right when you go and visit Disney, you know, there's
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: they try to instill Walt Disney into you right when
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: you're at on the and the app in the new
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: especially the new Apple campus, like there's you know, quotes
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: from Steve Jobs on the walls, like is it is
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: Verry Gordy important to Mr Gordy? I guess he is
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: it important to your culture that you're building too? You know,
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: remember what was absolutely definitely one of the things that
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: we've done. So when I first met him, go to
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: Mr Gorty's house, Um, he has a ton of footage
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: from all you know, from all his and our meetings
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: from back when they would have picnics, etcetera. With the
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: Motown family. He had a ton of He recorded everything,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: but wasn't doing anything with it. And so I told
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: Steve about it. Long story shore, you know, we convinced
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: Mr Gorty to do to allow us to do a
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: Motown documentary using all of this footage that he has,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: which is something that I think a lot of people
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: tried to do but we've been able to achieve it.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: So it's something that will come out next year. But
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: in the motivation behind it was to one remind people
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: the a foundation of how Motown was created, but also
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: the foundation of like music right like it's about great songs,
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: it's about work ethic, it's about people coming together, and
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: for him it was also about love, you know. Um,
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: and also too, we connected the dots between a lot
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: of other people that have been influenced by motown over
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: the over time. So okay, Mark, First of all, this
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: has been a great conversation. I just want you to
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: know that I've got two daughters and I think it
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: would be amazing if they could go into the business
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: and and and just following your footsteps because I and
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: if I had sons, i'd say the same thing. But
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Really it's been very inspirational. Um. My
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: question though, is do you find it in today's marketplace?
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: Do you find it more challenging to develop a brand
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: new artist or to help with the comeback of and
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: already established artist who's coming back from very disappointing album,
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: both commercially or whether it's commercially or or critically or both.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: It's tough with you know, trying to have a the
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: comeback for an artist that's been established and it's been
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: around for like, let's say, ten years, it's tough. It's
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: tough if they haven't taken the time to really educate
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: themselves on the new way of operating. I know artists
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: that were huge ten years ago that really haven't caught
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: onto the way streaming is working like that, don't really
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: have Spotify or Apple Music on their phones. I'm like,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: what are you doing? How do you even know? But
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: they they're artists who don't really you know what I mean,
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: And they were they were huge ten years ago. So
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: it's really tough, um and they can't they can't really
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: adjust to the new marketplace. They can't really adjust to
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: the way things are operating now. And you know, you
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: can lead them down the role, but if if they're
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: not willing to change the way that they operately, it
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: also really comes down to change. How willing are you
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: to change? Some people get stuck in their ways. Can
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: Stevie Wonder have another hit? What would how will you
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: make that happen? I don't know, Bob, but I'll take
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: the challenge. Well, is it about inspiring him? You know,
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: you have a long time Steve. Stevie has um, He's
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: been writing music, He's had music for I mean every
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: We've tried for years to try and get into music
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: out of Stevie. I pray it happens. We will all
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: do everything we can to uh and in a hip
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: hop world, and we've seen in the last year all
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: the pop acts have failed in the marketplace, Miley Cyrus,
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: Katie Perry, Taylor, Taylor Swift. If someone is in the
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: urbans field and it's more of a ballad or an
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: R and B thing than hip hop, can it work? Yes,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: But it's not even about it being just about hip hop.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: I think it ultimately comes down so the great how
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: great the song is, you know what I mean when
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: we talk about Katie or Miley, etcetera. They can all
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: come back with great, great songs, and we need music.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: We need them to come back, and we need them
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: to come back with substantial music that can connect. I
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: think we also need, you know, outside of these new
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: hip hop artists are hip hop artists in general to
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: talk about the times and things that are happening without
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: sounding preachy. We need our pop artists to create great
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: music that can connect to all people as well. I
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: grew up loving pop music also, you know what I mean.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: And so you want you want to see that happen. Okay,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: over here, there was someone with a Mike Okay, Hi
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: Ethiopia First, I'm seconding what Mark said. Just total respect
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: on every level for you. So and thank you also
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: for definitely handling up Bob's challenging questions about race and gender.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: So just round of applause for that, I hope. I okay,
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: So if you don't push the edges, you'll never know
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: where they are. UM. Question about representing and promoting female artists,
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: and uh, I know you've worked with Erica, but I do.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: But I also noticed your roster has more men and
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: wondered if you could address that. Do you see a
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: day when it'll be more balanced? Are there particular challenges
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: in promoting women? Why is it that there are less
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: women at the top? Uh? Women artists? That's all I
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: want is more female artists. Um. And in my career
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: before as a publisher, I worked with more female talent.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: Thank you for noting that my roster is more men
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: because it's something. When people ask me what I'm looking for,
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I want a female I want I want
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: a female artist. I want UM. I don't know why
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: it's so hard to find great new female talent. I
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: don't know what the problem is. I've been looking. I've
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: been I've been completely honest with you. I've been looking.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: I've been trying to find UM great female X to
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: sign for me. I want. I want them to be
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: artists that write their own music as well UM and
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: are pretty self aware. I think that I've come across
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of talent that might have the right aesthetic,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: but not have you know, the substance or the feeler,
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: or they don't really know who they are. And I'm
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: not I'm not really trying to subscribe to any of that. UM.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: I don't think that that really cuts through. And I've
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: seen I've seen a lot of female artists get distracted
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: or confused by perception or celebrity, etcetera. And you have
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: to really be a beast at it. You see the
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: best of the best in the marketplace, the superstars. They
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: really are incredibly intelligent, have an incredible work ethic, and
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: um work their asses off right and know when to listen.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: I know who they know who like who on their
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: team are the people to listen to who when they
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: need better people on their team? And I just think
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's hard to find that now. Okay, so
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: the next question here, But if anyone has anyone they
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: want to bring something, please let me know because I
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: am actively looking for new female at Mr Borrow. Um Hi,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: I just want to echo at the other folks set
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: and when and when you find the right man, he
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: will be a very lucky man. So um I believe that.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: Um No, in all seriousness, you know you talked about
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: well one thing Stevie, so I run Live Nation Japan. Um,
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: we're talking to c A. Stevie Wonder is still worth
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: fifty to sixty thousand tickets in that market and we're probably,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: I hope we're gonna do to say tom Arenas with
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: them in twenty nineteen. And wow, Um, that's like a
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: dream come true for me to get to work with Stevie.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: Can't have a hit again. I'm sorry you can't have
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: a hit again and you should come. Um yeah, you
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: mentioned that the trouble of getting me goes to Europe, right, Um,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: what's happening in Asia right now is there's been this
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: e d M revolution, which is still kind of happening.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: Japan is the most mature of the Eastern markets, and
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: hip hop is all the rage there. However, these acts
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: can't really sell many hard tickets yet. UM. The biggest
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: acts I'm not going to name, UM are worth about
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: three thousand tickets. UM. Live Nation and Insomniac. I came from.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: Insomniac took an investment in the Rolling Loud Festival, which
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: clearly you know all about will be there in Miami,
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: the premier hip hop festival in the world. Right there's
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: fifty sixty thousand people. Every hot hip hop artist plays it.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: We're trying to bring it to Asia. UM. We had
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: dates on hold. UM, We're gonna do it in multiple countries. UM.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: The artists weren't reasonable with their fees. UM. They were not.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: They were not. UM, and I think that's going to
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: be a challenge. So I guess my question to you is,
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: how how do you see the Asian market for hip hop?
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm kind of like the Asian flag waiver
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: at this conference. Um, because it is the panacea for
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: all of this. There's huge opportunity there, and it's disturbing
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: to hear that everyone's coming back asking for a ton
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: of money because again, I know, the mentality is to
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: just hit a lip to just get a big check
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: as opposed to thinking about really penetrating the market and
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: the opportunity that exists there. And so it's again it's
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: the education process. And I think that you know, sometimes
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: your job is to be a translator, and um, it's
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: about having the right people on the team that can
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: really translate for them. Why it makes sense. You know
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of times at my company when it comes
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: to some of the hip hop, the bigger hip hop
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: acts that we have, I end up having to do
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: everything because I can be a translator in some ways
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: to get them to do things. But if there's if
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: if anything is pertaining to me goes and then coming
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: to come into the market, let me okay. But but
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you I've heard about I've heard about certain
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: huge acts that have never come to Japan. Huge some
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: of our biggest superstars here have not have not gone there,
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: and I just think it's a a lack of understanding. Yeah,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: but I think that there would be an opportunity to
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: get a few of the big managers together and to
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: really walk them through it and educate them. And I
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: think that would be the right next step. Okay, anybody
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: else with a Mike there? Yeah, I got a quick
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: question for you. Um, there's no doubt the urban and
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: hip hop rap side have have had such a direct
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: pulse to the consumer more so than any other format. Right,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's mind bogging. I watched it with my
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: own kids. Do you ever sit around and go, wow,
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: I can't believe these other formats have not figured this out.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: Like when you said what you guys have been able
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: to figure out and go, it's amazing they haven't figured
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: that out, you know, from a strategic standpoint, right you
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: and like other genres of music. Yeah, when you sit
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: another show like I can't believe that, you know, when
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: you're sitting your strategy of media with other forms, you know,
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: and they go they can't believe they have not figured
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: this out. Right, And I'm not trying to get you know,
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: the secret recipe at the best chocolate chip cookie, right,
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: but you know what you know you said, like, I
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: can't believe rock or whatever it is, they have not
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: figured out this one thing to connect. Here's the thing.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: I also I believe that's always just a matter of time.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: I'm not one of those people that's like, oh, this
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: genre of music is dead or whatever. I think that
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: that's all bullshit. I think that it's only a matter
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: of time before music is music and reinvests itself, right, So,
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: so I think that you just don't give up on
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: it and you figure out what is connecting. I even
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: think that when you think think about campaigns for artists,
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: like what is it that will connect the dots? And
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: I think that as you think about other genres kind
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: of have to dig deeper to figure out how to
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: really make Speaking of that, is this country urban crossover?
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: Is this a blip on the radar screen or a
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: new trends? It's a new trend and I think it's
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: real because we're looking at kids that might have come
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: up listening to country music and also like like the
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: the fusion of the different genres, that's a real thing. Well,
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: it's very interesting because I said, I think people are graziers.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: They know more things, and it's interesting. What it's seen
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: is the most right wing of formats their audience has
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: fans too. You see what's happening with Cain Brown, which
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: has been amazing, right, but he's mixed kids singing country
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: music and it's real, it's authentic to him. I think
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: the other thing is like the bullshit meter is real, right,
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: you can't you can't fool kids. I've never been one
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: of those people that believe like you dictate what's next,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: and you tell people what's next, they connect to what's
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: real and authentic. And I think that we're seeing a
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: lot more that pop up where people are um inspired
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: by a lot of different kinds of music. They can
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: infuse them and they create great music from that, and
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: then it ends up cutting through and then we think
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: it's like the biggest thing in the world. It's like, no,
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: someone just did what was real for them. Now, it's
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: also interesting, you said earlier, or they're looking for female
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: artists who are writers. Does this pretend the end of
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: the record with fifteen writers. I wouldn't say that. I
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: just know specifically for me when I when I when
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: I've worked with artists who know who they are and
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: know what they want to say, I feel like it
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: goes further. So That's what I'm looking for. But as
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: a publisher, do you think it's good, bad, or irrelevant
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: that there's so many writers on these records. Yeah, I
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: mean definitely, because your your shares are getting cut down.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: When you have that many writers on one song, it's
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: you're getting nothing really, you know what I mean, Like
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: you might have two or three four cool, but when
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: you have that many writers on, you're not really making ship,
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, You're really not You're really not.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know for hip hop records, who I'll
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: say this, there are a lot of people on these
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: songs because you're seeing a lot of producers work together.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: Producers work together on tracks, but they end up with,
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: you know, not a lot of percentage on their records.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: And again that's an education process. People don't really understand
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: what it means. And at this point in time to
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: what is it a hackney thing or is it still
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: valid to have a guest appearance to boost a career.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: You don't have to have it, you don't have to
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: have it, But does it still work if you want
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: to do that way? Definitely? Okay, any else in the
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: back there, Marty, good afternoon, and um I do bleed
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: orange being a Clemson guy. But for those of you
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: who have never been to Athens, Georgia. You have to go.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: It's an amazing experience. UM, great rich music history and
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: Atlanta and Athens are something to hold. So for you,
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: anybody who's down in the Southeast to highly recommend go
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: check it out. UM. I think I'm paraphrasing a little bit,
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: but i think you said something earlier about UM. Today,
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: failure means giving up. So in the spirit of technology
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: and connectibility and the fact that we're all connected. When
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: you are evaluating an artist, do you consider an artist's
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: resiliency UM with respect to their evaluation of talent? Is
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: that something that you feel like you have to throw
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: into the blender when you're That's a huge part of it,
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: huge part of how resilient you are. I mean, I've
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: learned that in my own life and in my own career.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: But I've seen many examples of if you are resilient,
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: if you can just push through, it will make all
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: the difference. Eventually it connects. And you know, at this point,
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: I've been in the business about twenty years now, right,
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: and I've seen people that just never gave up, people
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: that some people doubt it and never thought would ever
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: make it, or ever have a hit. There some people
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: who should give up, right And you know, I think
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: people who should give up are the peop that are
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: only motivated by the fucking fame. That's the truth. If
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: you don't, if you're not really motivated by your love
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: and passion for the music, you can tell the difference,
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And also if you're only
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: motivated by the money, if you're only motivated by the
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: money and you don't operate with any level of ethics
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: in this business, I want you out this ship too,
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like that, because you're really
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: kind of, um, disrespecting our world. Because you have to
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: have a respect for the music. I think that we've
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: suffered from a lot of people that don't have a
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: respect for music and the gift of music. And I
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: have a huge regard for it. So I want to
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: see more people in it that do as well. And
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: I think that, um, everything is coming full circle. But yes,
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: resiliency is a big part of this. You've been utterly fat. Okay,
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: I don't want to wear it out. Okay you I'll
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: let you be the wrangler here, Jim. Okay, great talk,
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much. I'm a bloody foreigner. I arrived
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: in this country three years ago and I wasn't aware,
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: and I didn't even understand structural racism. Coming here was
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: mind blowing to see how that works. I mean, you're
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: talking to a room that is almost exclusively white right now.
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: Then I went into the Black Panther movie on the
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: day came out because I was so stoked by the soundtrack.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: I got into that theater and I was almost exclusively
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: the only white person in that movie, which was a revelation.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: That movie was amazing and a celebration in itself. Now,
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: how do you see now it crossed like one point
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: two billion dollars on the box office. How do you
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: how do you foresee ripple effects of that movie? What
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: did it do? It created opportunities for other movies to
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: be created around black culture, et cetera. But also I
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: think it brought together a lot of people in the
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: sense so for me one of them. I mean I
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: could talk about Black Panther all day because I told
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: my parents I was like, Wakanda was supposed to be Ethiopia.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: They sucked it up anyway, But um, I think that
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: what they created with that piece of art is what
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: I I thought would happen with music. I thought that
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: there would be an artist that would create a great
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: song or a great body of work that would connect
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: people in the same way. And I think that Black
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: Panther the film really brought together all people, you know
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: what I mean, all kinds of people, all ethnicities, and
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: allowed people to connect and respect, you know, our culture.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: And it was based in love. When you want to
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: Kanye wants to talk about love, that film felt like
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: it was based in love and the idea of bringing
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: bringing people together in that way. Um. I thought music,
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: I thought there would be a musical artist or someone
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: that would create our that would connect people, but it
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: ended up being that film that that did it. And um,
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: I think it's the beginning of seeing other art forms
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: that can bring all people together without making people feel alienated.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: Because you may have been in a theater with with
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: all black people, but I was in Westwood at I
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: Pick and I was like the only Black person in
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: there with a bunch of white people, and I was
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: I was happy about it because I got to see
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: other cultures watching the film too, appreciating it. So and
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: one more question, Jim Hey, I was interested in the
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: the correlation as you see. But you know, ticket sales
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: and visiting markets and and you said about not being
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: big because you have a following, but we all know
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: what global success means. And you know back in the nineties, uh,
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: it was of course a different world. But to actually
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: make I'm from Sweden, so so to to get the
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: great artists of I was working on face records and
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: law and all these records, bringing these artists in and
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: to have a presence. I think it's still as important,
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: but it's it's so hard to connect with the audience
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: and get the ticket sales now, as the gentleman from
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: Live Nation told us, because there is no presence and
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: there's his song song song songs, so what as a
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: you know, your motime, But it's do you know what
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: what does the Universal do to promote these acts in
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: foreign countries and how do they support bringing them over
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: these days? I have no clue. And it's like I
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: think it's really connected. Yeah, I mean I think I
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: touched on it a little bit before because the global
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: global marketing and supporting our acts around the world is
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: like a huge priority for US um and I can
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: tell you we come up with campaigns and plans that
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: are about each territory. And you know, we have marketing
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: people that really talk about what's happening in each territory
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: and I hold them responsible for making sure they know
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: how to impact that artists in each territory. And it's
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: not the same campaign for each artists. You know, I
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: expect them to know what will penetrate which artists is
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: the right person to collaborate with the local artists. They're like,
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: they have to know the touch and field of each X.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: But the global aspect of it all is very important
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: us and we work with each territory to come up
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: with the plans for our X. I'll tell you at
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: the top of this year. And we do this like
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: two or three times a year. We go around the world.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: I went to Sweden, I went to France. I went
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: to London with Steve and our head of international and
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: we presented all our top priorities for the year and
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: we talked about the plans for each of those X
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: and you know, in each office, we went to Spotify offices,
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: et cetera, and we talked about what our rollout and
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: they came to us with ideas and I mean, it's
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: a huge priority for us huge Ethiopia, You're incredibly charismatic.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: As I say, I think you're gonna have to check
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: man on a regular basis because they're drawn to you.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: But this has really been fabulous. I opening. I'm sure
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: everyone's agreeing with me that we've learned so much here today.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Thank you for having than that wraps
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: up this week's episode of The Bob Left Sets podcast
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: with executive extraordinaire Ethiopia Have to Marry Him President of
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: Motown Records, Recorded live in Santa Barbara only a month ago.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: She's a force of nature. Look out for her in
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: the future. Until next time, I'm Bob Left. Sez can
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: think of me reads don't know me? Exact must be out,
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: don't se