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Four Spirits · Boozy Banter with Friends

• 0:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hello and welcome to Boozy Banter with Friends.
• 0:12
  Trisha Smith: Join us this week as we explore the supernatural,
• 0:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: With the little sass,
• 0:18
  Trisha Smith: The unexplained,
• 0:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: And a side of snark,
• 0:20
  Trisha Smith: And tales of other worldly shenanigans.
• 0:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: Grab your favorite spirit and join me Leyla,
• 0:26
  Trisha Smith: And me Trisha and meet us on the other side.
• 0:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hello,
• 0:41
  Trisha Smith: You're really throwing me off with this subdued hello. Once, twice maybe but this is like three or four weeks in a row and I can't handle it.
• 0:51
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's a new season,Trisha. New season, new into.
• 0:57
  Trisha Smith: No.
• 0:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hello.
• 1:05
  Trisha Smith: There you go, that's more like it.
• 1:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: You know I was uh, you're like god damn it Leyla. You knnow I was like you know sitting around the other day and I was just thinking. I'm like, what do you call an alligator wearing a vest?
• 1:23
  Trisha Smith: No, I'm not getting sucked in, an alligator wearing a vest.
• 1:27
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hey Trisha,
• 1:30
  Trisha Smith: You already did an alligator joke.
• 1:32
  Leyla Zmeskal: An investigator.
• 1:32
  Leyla Zmeskal: Which ties it today's story we're deep dive into do more investigator stuff. I mean sort of. I mean that was the worse tie in ever.
• 1:50
  Trisha Smith: Nice try, nice try. Investagator. Like you already did crock pot,
• 1:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: I did crock pot, that was a good one.
• 2:01
  Trisha Smith: How many alligator jokes can there be?
• 2:03
  Leyla Zmeskal: I don't know, I just have those two so far. So far.
• 2:06
  Trisha Smith: So far. Thanks for the warning.
• 2:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: You never know.
• 2:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: You never know.
• 2:12
  Trisha Smith: So yes, we are continuing on with our Warren stories,
• 2:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: Investigating.
• 2:21
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, investigatory,
• 2:24
  Leyla Zmeskal: Investigatorey.
• 2:29
  Trisha Smith: So last week, was the Snedeker family.
• 2:33
  Leyla Zmeskal: Snedekers you know, I just like saying Snedekers.
• 2:35
  Trisha Smith: I know you do.
• 2:36
  Leyla Zmeskal: Snedeker I mean, that's a fun last name.
• 2:38
  Trisha Smith: Fransisco.
• 2:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: Snedeker.
• 2:44
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, I suppose.
• 2:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, you have a fun last name that you're going into today.
• 2:50
  Trisha Smith: I do.
• 2:51
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, it's, it's a fun one to say.
• 2:53
  Trisha Smith: Auto correct doesn't like it.
• 2:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: No, I can imagine.
• 2:57
  Trisha Smith: AutoCorrect doesn't like it at all.
• 2:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: What, I want to give you this one and this suggestion.
• 3:02
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 3:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: I don't want to give you the real thing.
• 3:04
  Trisha Smith: So before we head into our story, we kept it kind of easy today. And we just did.
• 3:07
  Trisha Smith: One of our favorite red wines.
• 3:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: Absolutely.
• 3:13
  Trisha Smith: 19 Crimes.
• 3:14
  Leyla Zmeskal: You can not go wrong with 19 Crimes.
• 3:16
  Trisha Smith: You really can't.
• 3:16
  Trisha Smith: And I know you're like me. We prefer, The Uprising.
• 3:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh absolutly,
• 3:22
  Trisha Smith: which is, is it, Rum barrels?
• 3:24
  Leyla Zmeskal: I think it's like a rum, yeah.
• 3:25
  Trisha Smith: Aged in rum, 30 days in rum barrels, which just makes it so good.
• 3:30
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's so good.
• 3:30
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's an easy drinking red wine.
• 3:34
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's consistent,
• 3:35
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 3:36
  Leyla Zmeskal: And if you go to Costco, like you can't go wrong with the price. You're like, I'll pick up a bottles. But it's ridiculous and it's so good.
• 3:47
  Trisha Smith: It is. It really is. I mean, I like the Uprising, but I also like just the regular Red Blend.
• 3:54
  Leyla Zmeskal: I do too.
• 3:55
  Trisha Smith: That one's just an easy sipper as well.
• 3:57
  Leyla Zmeskal: I was at Publix the other day and I was walking by, 19 Grimes has a new white wine out.
• 4:06
  Trisha Smith: New. It's not their hard chard or it's this.
• 4:09
  Trisha Smith: Is that the one you're talking about?
• 4:11
  Leyla Zmeskal: With Martha Stewart?
• 4:12
  Trisha Smith: No. No.
• 4:13
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yes. Martha's faces on a chardonnay.
• 4:19
  Trisha Smith: What?
• 4:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: I walked by it and it caught my eye and I turned right around and walked right back to it and picked up the bottle. I was like, oh my god it's Martha Steward.
• 4:30
  Trisha Smith: What is it called?
• 4:32
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hold on. Let me do the Googles,
• 4:34
  Trisha Smith: Martha Stewart on a 19 Crimes.
• 4:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's called Martha's Chard.
• 4:41
  Trisha Smith: Oh my gosh.
• 4:44
  Leyla Zmeskal: But it was, it was so funny. I walked by I was like are you kidding me?
• 4:49
  Trisha Smith: Wow,
• 4:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: Look at them putting all these,
• 4:53
  Trisha Smith: Criminals on wine bottles.
• 4:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: Well, I mean.
• 4:59
  Trisha Smith: I mean, if you're gonna do,
• 5:01
  Leyla Zmeskal: Snoop and Martha, they're like,
• 5:03
  Trisha Smith: They're like BFFs,
• 5:04
  Leyla Zmeskal: They are BFFs.
• 5:05
  Trisha Smith: But I mean, you know what, if you had to go to jail for something, you might as well have fun with it after. I don't know.
• 5:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, why not?
• 5:17
  Trisha Smith: At least she's in the position to do that. Not many people can be like, I went to jail. Now, put my face on a bottle of wine. I've had the Hard Chard the one with the creepy lady.
• 5:28
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay,
• 5:28
  Trisha Smith: On the bottle.
• 5:28
  Trisha Smith: I've had that before. And I did not like it,
• 5:31
  Leyla Zmeskal: Was it too much?
• 5:32
  Trisha Smith: It's too much.
• 5:32
  Trisha Smith: It's almost 16% alcohol.
• 5:36
  Leyla Zmeskal: High yeah.
• 5:38
  Trisha Smith: And it's just, by at that point, it's not like a sipping wine. It's I felt like he had to do wine shots with that, it was so strong.
• 5:49
  Leyla Zmeskal: If I'm doing a high, high percentage wine, I want to do something like a Freak Show.
• 5:55
  Trisha Smith: It's usually a red, it's like a good red.
• 5:57
  Leyla Zmeskal: 1000 stories or something, you know, something like that? I do. I do enjoy those two. But they also have like a good high percentage,
• 6:06
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 6:07
  Leyla Zmeskal: To their wines.
• 6:08
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, but white wines with a high alcohol content or not tasty.
• 6:14
  Leyla Zmeskal: Because when you drink a white wine, you're just kind of like, chillin.
• 6:17
  Trisha Smith: Yeah.
• 6:18
  Leyla Zmeskal: You're just chillin.
• 6:19
  Trisha Smith: Exactly. You're not do I don't even know what they expect you to do with that wine. It was not good.
• 6:24
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, goodness.
• 6:25
  Trisha Smith: And like I said, I'm a 19 Crimes fan. Except for that one.
• 6:29
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah.
• 6:29
  Trisha Smith: So makes me wonder about Martha's.
• 6:32
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah, I'm kind of curious about that. And I just walked by it. I wasn't. But now that I think about it and mentioned I'm like, Damn, I should have picked up a bottle and like, surprised you with it.
• 6:40
  Leyla Zmeskal: Especially if I known we were gonna have 19 Crimes today,
• 6:46
  Trisha Smith: Right. Yeah, that was I think it was just,
• 6:48
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's just one of those things where you're like,
• 6:51
  Trisha Smith: Hey, this sounds, this sounds good.
• 6:53
  Leyla Zmeskal: And I'm always, I'm always gonna be like, yeah, let's do that.
• 6:56
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. Can't go wrong.
• 6:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: I like it all.
• 6:59
  Trisha Smith: So yeah, today we're continuing on with our Warren stories, and I'm doing this Smurl family haunting not the Smurf like,
• 7:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: With the smell?
• 7:12
  Trisha Smith: My autocorrect, did you mean Smurf? No,
• 7:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: It didn't go smell?
• 7:17
  Trisha Smith: It didn't go smell because it's SMURL.
• 7:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, so of course, it would be smurf.
• 7:23
  Trisha Smith: So they keep trying to change it to Smurf.
• 7:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: You're doing a story on Smurfs?
• 7:28
  Trisha Smith: That's what my phone thinks. We were talking yesterday about how to continue on with our Warren stories because they're so complicated and big and elaborate, because there's so many different versions, so we decided to kind of catch up on their most famous movie that was made. I can I think for nowadays people really think it's the Conjuring like, The Conjuring has definately gotten bigger, but it began with the Amityville Horror.
• 8:03
  Leyla Zmeskal: And you know, when I was watching, we both watched the 1979 edition,
• 8:08
  Trisha Smith: Right with James Brolin.
• 8:10
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah and Margot,
• 8:12
  Trisha Smith: Kidder.
• 8:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: It has been so so long since I've seen that movie, and it kind of made me want to see the 2005 Ryan Reynolds version.
• 8:23
  Trisha Smith: I recently watched that one,
• 8:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: Did you?
• 8:26
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. And it's just such a weird, it's so weird to watch him in that,
• 8:32
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean now he's kind of set himself,
• 8:35
  Trisha Smith: As like a comedic title actor. And this one he's really like, does dark, good when he wants to? And he was really like, a mean, that mean stepdad, you know? Have you ever seen it?
• 8:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: I, you know, probably, but I don't remember.
• 8:53
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's been so long. Like it's really been a
• 8:53
  Trisha Smith: It's been so long.
• 8:56
  Trisha Smith: long time since I seen the 1979 version. I remember seeing it.
• 9:01
  Trisha Smith: But it's been so long since I've seen it. It was almost like I was watching it with fresh eyes again.
• 9:07
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 9:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: But then when I'd see all the the older actors in the movies, I was like, Oh, I remember that guy, oh I remember that guy.
• 9:14
  Trisha Smith: Right?
• 9:14
  Leyla Zmeskal: Like, Oh, that guy has been in a lot of you know things. Oh, that guy's been in a lot of things.
• 9:17
  Leyla Zmeskal: A lot of things,
• 9:17
  Trisha Smith: Right?
• 9:17
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 9:18
  Leyla Zmeskal: Because the priest and the, like one of the cops at the very beginning of the story, the bald head guy like they both have been in a lot of movies,
• 9:27
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 9:28
  Leyla Zmeskal: Not the bushy, bushy mustache type guy, I was kind of like, like, showing up throughout the movie.
• 9:35
  Trisha Smith: But it was so weird. James Brolin and then Ryan Reynolds like two completely but then you know as the the newer one with Ryan Reynolds goes on. Like he gets the scruffy beard and everything. You can kind of see why they chose him for that movie, but he just seems too young compared to the original movie. I don't know if it's a generational thing.
• 10:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: Maybe,
• 10:02
  Trisha Smith: Cuz you know in the 70s, everybody looked old.
• 10:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: I will say it was like a classic 70s horror movie though.
• 10:11
  Trisha Smith: The eyes.
• 10:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah,
• 10:13
  Trisha Smith: The light up eyes.
• 10:13
  Leyla Zmeskal: I like the big blimp in the window when he's coming back from the boat house.
• 10:18
  Leyla Zmeskal: We'll talk more about that next week, but we got a kick out of it though.
• 10:28
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, I enjoyed watching it again. Because it was it's so campy, but it's also like I can remember being young and it scared like the part with her little imaginary playmate.
• 10:44
  Trisha Smith: Jody, that scared me when I was younger. Just the idea of something.
• 10:51
  Leyla Zmeskal: There,
• 10:51
  Trisha Smith: There,
• 10:52
  Leyla Zmeskal: In your rocking chair.
• 10:53
  Trisha Smith: Right,
• 10:54
  Leyla Zmeskal: Telling you don't let out the babysitter.
• 10:56
  Trisha Smith: Oh,
• 10:57
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'll get mad at you if you do. It's so funny how her knuckles turn instantly bloody and,
• 11:04
  Trisha Smith: I mean, what was she? What? What's the inside of that door made of?
• 11:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: I know.
• 11:19
  Trisha Smith: And the whole thing about him being like they tried to imply that he was possessed by DeFeo. That was the last the kids last name, right?
• 11:29
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah, that was the kids name.
• 11:29
  Trisha Smith: Ronald DeFeo. I don't know that's just just a weird, a weird one they never made in the newer one. They never tried to connect the crime with the haunting like they did in their original one.
• 11:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: But if you look at DeFeo's picture James Brolin, like they chose someone very clever,
• 11:52
  Trisha Smith: Did you look at a picture of, No the family that actually lived there.
• 11:53
  Leyla Zmeskal: DeFeo?
• 11:54
  Leyla Zmeskal: No, I didn't.
• 11:57
  Trisha Smith: I can't remember the last name. But anyway, so I was wondering if they, in real life did the family that actually move in did he have any resemblance?
• 12:07
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, that's a good question.
• 12:09
  Trisha Smith: Lufts.
• 12:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: Lutz's,
• 12:11
  Trisha Smith: Lutzs,
• 12:11
  Leyla Zmeskal: Lutzs,
• 12:12
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, the Lutz's family.
• 12:13
  Leyla Zmeskal: Lutz's family.
• 12:13
  Leyla Zmeskal: We'll have to check that out for next week.
• 12:15
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, now we're gonna have to look,
• 12:17
  Leyla Zmeskal: Cuz that's, that's a big one.
• 12:18
  Trisha Smith: Last week, we talked about,
• 12:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: Snedekers.
• 12:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: Snedeker family.
• 12:24
  Leyla Zmeskal: I just wanted to get that in.
• 12:28
  Trisha Smith: And we had also watched The Conjuring the first, not the first, but the first of the conjuring movies to come out. And after you set your story, after you talked about your story, I said, Let me tell you mine because you're going to be like, what? And it is so incredibly similar to the movie, to your story. Just there's a definite pattern, a definite pattern?
• 13:00
  Leyla Zmeskal: Well I mean, when we get into that, there's definitely a correlation between the timeframe that they became big, with the timeframe of what society was going through at the time,
• 13:11
  Trisha Smith: Right. Obviously, their involvement influenced all of these cases,
• 13:15
  Leyla Zmeskal: I think they can clearly show us that they capitalized on the panic that was happening. at that time,
• 13:23
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 13:24
  Leyla Zmeskal: Here we come to save the day?
• 13:31
  Trisha Smith: So let me tell you a little bit about
• 13:34
  Leyla Zmeskal: The Smurl's,
• 13:35
  Trisha Smith: The Smurl's.
• 13:36
  Leyla Zmeskal: Tell me before I sing again.
• 13:41
  Trisha Smith: So this one is not as famous as the investigations that spawned The Conjuring, or the Amityville house, but it was famous enough for a made for TV movie in the early 90s. And it did draw, you know, press attention because the Warrens were involved.
• 14:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right, so they made some money off of it.
• 14:04
  Trisha Smith: They absolutely did. So in 1974, Jack and Okay, every time I hear the word Pennsylvania, I think of, Janet's Smurl purchased a duplex style home in West Pittston, Pennsylvania for their family, which included not only their four young daughters, but Jack's parents as well.
• 14:23
  Trisha Smith: Pennsylvania.
• 14:28
  Leyla Zmeskal: Punxsutawney Phil. Pennsylvania.
• 14:31
  Trisha Smith: Yeah,
• 14:32
  Leyla Zmeskal: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, when you just hear like, little tags from movies and we need to hear the word you're like, brings me right back there.
• 14:43
  Trisha Smith: So,
• 14:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: Sorry,
• 14:44
  Trisha Smith: Pennsylvania family.
• 14:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: See, would you say like that? That doesn't make me feel like think of it. Tell me about the Pennsylvania family.
• 14:55
  Trisha Smith: Well, they were described as an All American family.
• 14:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay,
• 14:59
  Trisha Smith: Jack was The Production Manager for the Tops Chewing Gum Company, so you remember that?
• 15:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: Tops?
• 15:06
  Trisha Smith: Didn't they have like ginger gum? Clove gum?
• 15:10
  Leyla Zmeskal: No, I don't remember Tops.
• 15:10
  Leyla Zmeskal: Tops?
• 15:10
  Trisha Smith: Oh gosh, it's the white package. I maybe I'm thinking the wrong thing.
• 15:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: But was it the cigarette? Candies?
• 15:18
  Trisha Smith: No, no.
• 15:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: Do you remember the cigarette candies?
• 15:21
  Trisha Smith: Yeah.
• 15:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: You know you're old would you remember cigarette candy, astro pops. We all survived an astro pop.
• 15:30
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, but even Big League Chew how long has it been?
• 15:34
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, big League Chew.
• 15:35
  Trisha Smith: You know? I mean, I can remember my kids buying Big League, I mean just what you want your child to emulate having chewing tobacco in their mouths.
• 15:46
  Leyla Zmeskal: You didn't think of it like that though back in the day cuz I remember my brother getting that and I never never thought but I was a kid so,
• 15:55
  Trisha Smith: Well do you remember they used to have not only the candy cigarette gum but the candy one like a hard minty,
• 16:04
  Leyla Zmeskal: Little sticks Yep. I may have purchased those when I was a kid.
• 16:10
  Trisha Smith: Right, cuz you wanted to,
• 16:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: It was like a cigarette pack too.
• 16:15
  Trisha Smith: Oh, and parents are like a pack for you a pack for me. You know whatever keeps you happy back then.
• 16:22
  Leyla Zmeskal: Those were different times back then, just different times. Dam 70s.
• 16:32
  Trisha Smith: So, so easily distracted today,
• 16:36
  Leyla Zmeskal: Back to the Smurls,
• 16:37
  Trisha Smith: Back to this Smurl's, soon after moving in to this duplex, odd things started happening. I mean, like immediately, it wasn't it didn't take long, but nothing they felt was threatening or unexplainable. Toilets would flush on their own, electrical issues with their appliances, tools going missing and then reappearing. An old wall stain seeping through fresh coats of paint.
• 17:04
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay,
• 17:05
  Trisha Smith: I mean, nothing,
• 17:06
  Leyla Zmeskal: Nothing to odd,
• 17:07
  Trisha Smith: Crazy. Yeah, the house was a bit of a fixer upper. So the Smurls thought these were just plumbing and wiring issues that came along with owning an old home,
• 17:17
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay,
• 17:17
  Trisha Smith: They didn't panic or anything like that. But, knocking on walls started happening on an in the walls like it was coming from inside.
• 17:28
  Leyla Zmeskal: Inside the walls?
• 17:28
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, and on the doors and you know, throughout the house, the attic, the the basement between the duplexes and then there was a terrible odor that would appear only to dissipate moments later.
• 17:44
  Leyla Zmeskal: I don't know, a knocking and an odor.
• 17:46
  Trisha Smith: Right,
• 17:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: I can see where this is going.
• 17:50
  Trisha Smith: At first, they tried to explain these occurrences away. The old the house is old and it's settling and shifting, or an animal must have died somewhere in the house that they weren't able to find which was creating the terrible odor. But they soon realize the knocks came in threes. And foul smell foul smells were so bad, it was literally making them ill when it would appear. But things got even worse.
• 18:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: Of course they did.
• 18:23
  Trisha Smith: Claw marks start appear to appear on the walls, and ghostly dark shadows would appear from the ceiling and walls and floated through the home. Janet and Mary would hear what sounded like the other talking.
• 18:40
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay,
• 18:41
  Trisha Smith: So they would hear voices and Janet would think it was her mother in law, calling her name and Mary would hear Jack and Janet arguing even though they wouldn't be home or they weren't even speaking. A light fixture that Jack and his dad had installed crashed down from the ceiling, cutting one of their daughters on impact. Even though it had been bolted through the beam like a beam on the second floor and the family dog a German Shepherd was picked up and thrown into a wall by an unseen force.
• 19:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: Alright that's when I draw the line right there. That's it.
• 19:27
  Trisha Smith: You can cut my children but don't throw my dog.
• 19:30
  Leyla Zmeskal: Don't throw my dog. Look I have priorities.
• 19:38
  Trisha Smith: But the last straw was,
• 19:41
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh the the shepherd being thrown wasn't the last straw. That would have been it for me.
• 19:45
  Trisha Smith: No. Whatever was in their home began sexually assaulting Jack and Janet.
• 19:54
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay,
• 19:55
  Trisha Smith: Does it sound familiar?
• 19:57
  Leyla Zmeskal: Kind of, I mean, dare I say the D Word without some sexual abuse.
• 20:03
  Trisha Smith: So at first, the Smurls reached out to the Catholic Church to see if they could do an exorcism, anything to help them. But the church couldn't help without more proof, but they were soon contacted by Ed and Lorraine Warren. Go ahead. What do you say?
• 20:22
  Leyla Zmeskal: Here they come does a good day. I couldn't help it.
• 20:28
  Trisha Smith: When the Warrens investigated their home, they concluded that there were four spirits a harmless elderly woman, a possibly violent young woman, a man who had suffered and died in the home and a demon that was using the three spirits to terrorize the Smurl family.
• 20:49
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay, Of course, it was a demon.
• 20:51
  Trisha Smith: Right. Ed Warren gathered extensive audio and video recordings and had an Episcopal priest come in and perform an exorcism.
• 21:01
  Leyla Zmeskal: Is the Episcopal priest just as effective as a Catholic priest?
• 21:07
  Trisha Smith: Evidently not.
• 21:07
  Trisha Smith: Activity decreased slightly. But when media attention started to grow, the Catholic Church sent a priest to live in the home for a week so they wouldn't appear insensitive to the situation.
• 21:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: Cuz they care,
• 21:25
  Trisha Smith: But the priest left after just a few days due to a lack of activity.
• 21:31
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, that's weird.
• 21:33
  Trisha Smith: Shortly after the Smurls had two more exorcisms in their home, but in 1987, the family had had enough and moved but after just a few weeks, the black mass reappeared and the activity began again in their new home,
• 21:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh so it had attached to them and followed them.
• 21:52
  Trisha Smith: Finally, the Catholic Church agreed to do an exorcism for them. The details have been kept secret, but it's believed to be the longest and most powerful of the four exorcisms the family endured.
• 22:04
  Trisha Smith: Today, the family remains out of the spotlight. Both of Jack's parents passed away and Jack also passed in 2017. Janet and her daughter still remain in the West Pittston area, and no further demonic activity has been reported since that final exorcism. Now,
• 22:29
  Leyla Zmeskal: okay,
• 22:30
  Trisha Smith: Let's talk about the rest of the story.
• 22:32
  Leyla Zmeskal: Please do,
• 22:34
  Trisha Smith: Possible hoax?
• 22:36
  Leyla Zmeskal: Possible. I mean, if the first priest, the first Catholic priest went in there and spent a couple days in the house and was supposed to spend a week and he's like I'm out after a few days, where were the ghosts and the demons hiding like shhh, shhh, ever been quiet, quiet. Shut it, I said shut it. Don't go bump in the night when the priest is here.
• 23:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: But as soon as he's gone,
• 23:04
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, they're all,
• 23:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: Game on.
• 23:05
  Trisha Smith: Doing it. So well obviously not everyone believes
• 23:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'm shocked, the events that happen,
• 23:12
  Trisha Smith: As they were told,
• 23:13
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'm so shocked about that.
• 23:14
  Trisha Smith: Here's why. On a Monday in August of 1986, and Associated Press story reported on a house in a small mining community near Scranton being haunted by demons. This story came from a small notice on an inside page of the local paper, The Sunday Independent, mentioning that the Smurls had a problem with demons haunting their home, and they were seeking help. The media attention was intense and overwhelming. So here's the first thing that knock their credibility.
• 23:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 23:48
  Trisha Smith: In November, just three months after gaining media attention from that news article, St. Martin's Press announced plans to publish a book about their experience written by a reporter from the Scranton Tribune, named Robert Koran. They also signed an exclusive contract with St.
• 24:08
  Trisha Smith: Martin's and Koran that forbids the family from discussing the case with anyone else.
• 24:14
  Leyla Zmeskal: Convenient,
• 24:15
  Trisha Smith: Just three months,
• 24:17
  Leyla Zmeskal: Just three months,
• 24:18
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 24:18
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, cuz you collect a lot of evidence in three months.
• 24:23
  Trisha Smith: The second thing to happen,
• 24:24
  Leyla Zmeskal: Doesn't seem planned,
• 24:25
  Trisha Smith: Right? Not at all.
• 24:25
  Trisha Smith: The chairman of the committee for the scientific investigation of claims of the paranormal, they're called CSI now, because they used to be called every single letter of that was like Si, si si P or something like that. So the committee for the scientific, you know, what I just said,
• 24:51
  Leyla Zmeskal: I gotcha,
• 24:52
  Trisha Smith: But they're called CSI now, so we have to say that over again. His name was Paul Kurtz, and he did an investigation
• 24:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay. What did Paul find out?
• 25:01
  Trisha Smith: He decided to get involved not only because of the media attention it was garnering, but it was also because of the involvement of the Warrens.
• 25:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: The Warrens.
• 25:13
  Trisha Smith: Right. So his report on his investigation was titled, A hunting in West Pittston question mark, not a ghost of a chance.
• 25:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, really?
• 25:27
  Trisha Smith: It appeared in the winter issue of the Skeptical Inquirer.
• 25:32
  Leyla Zmeskal: Those Skeptical Inquiry people. They're just,
• 25:35
  Trisha Smith: There was,
• 25:36
  Leyla Zmeskal: Their doubters, like they don't believe everything they read or hear.
• 25:41
  Trisha Smith: So Paul Kurtz had sent two teams of investigators to the Smurl home and Warren's wouldn't let them in.
• 25:49
  Leyla Zmeskal: Is it like,
• 25:50
  Trisha Smith: Surprise, surprise,
• 25:51
  Leyla Zmeskal: Like a battle of like, flexing of investigatory muscle. We already claimed this place, it's ours.
• 25:59
  Trisha Smith: That's exactly what it was. The Smurls gave one of the teams permission to enter and investigate, but the Warrens were like, nope,
• 26:06
  Leyla Zmeskal: Bugger off eh.
• 26:09
  Trisha Smith: CSI members did extensive phone interviews with the Smurls, their neighbors and reporters who had knowledge of the case.
• 26:17
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 26:18
  Trisha Smith: I mean, they were like, not just investigating the claims. They were like asking everybody, you know,
• 26:24
  Leyla Zmeskal: Just like with the Snedekers, they said they did not know that they were moving into an old funeral home, but it was pretty much known in the neighborhood.
• 26:34
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 26:34
  Leyla Zmeskal: Everybody knows it was a former funeral home.
• 26:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay,
• 26:37
  Trisha Smith: Right. So before I talk about what Paul Kurtz found Like they truly believe something was going on out, you know what his conclusion was? I want to point out that even though Paul Kurtz and Robert Koran disagree about almost everything else concerning the story. They both agree that the Smurls were truly sincere about their story. It did they didn't feel like they were trying to con anybody, in their house or, or something.
• 27:04
  Trisha Smith: In Curtis's report, he raises a number of concerns with the reports of the hauntings, including conflicting reports from the Smurls, teenage daughter, Dawn, as well as Jack's health. Jack had brain surgery three years before the incidents to relieve water on the brain. So they think he might have had some sort of neurological issues. A psychologist thought the family might be suffering from mass hysteria, like in the Salem Witch Trials,
• 27:36
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 27:37
  Trisha Smith: And when Kurtz asked the family to undergo psychological exams, they refused.
• 27:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh,
• 27:43
  Trisha Smith: Which, I don't know. I, I would feel I kind of feel like I would feel the same way.
• 27:49
  Leyla Zmeskal: I yeah,
• 27:50
  Trisha Smith: You know, if somebody said, If you truly believe something was going on in your home, and then somebody was like, Well, I really, you know, the only way.
• 27:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: I don't believe ya,
• 27:58
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, I don't believe you. So you should go to have a psychological exam. I be like,
• 28:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: Fuck you.
• 28:03
  Trisha Smith: Exactly. So the Warrens involvement was a key cause of suspicion. The Smurls initially contacted them in January of 1986. Eight months before the media attention. The Warrens were also working with Koran on his book, his doubts about the Warrens stem from their involvement with the Aminty house, which was proven to be a hoax, but they still maintained as genuine.
• 28:32
  Leyla Zmeskal: Well of course, I mean, there's money to be had,
• 28:35
  Trisha Smith: Right. They're not going to say, oh, yeah, we'll tell the truth, and and no, if you start out saying it's this and you made money off it, you're not gonna backtrack,
• 28:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: You can't because then that to shoot your credibility for every other story that you're involved in or will be involved in.
• 28:49
  Trisha Smith: Which there will be.
• 28:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah,
• 28:51
  Trisha Smith: So Paul Kurtz offered several other explanations for the Smurls experiences, the stench they smelled. Neighbors had complained to the town officials for years about a sewer pipe near the Smurl home that was broken.
• 29:06
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, okay.
• 29:08
  Trisha Smith: You know that that could have been a cause for that. And due to the layers of underground mine veins, mining community,
• 29:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: I gotcha.
• 29:17
  Trisha Smith: The home could shift and move causing popping or knocking sounds as well as chairs and furniture moving on their own because of the the shifting of the house.
• 29:29
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay,
• 29:29
  Trisha Smith: So maybe,
• 29:31
  Leyla Zmeskal: Maybe,
• 29:33
  Trisha Smith: But of course, there's also the subject of financial gain. Within days of the story making national news, a witness allegedly saw Jack negotiating with the head of a Hollywood production company. Ed Warren tried to justify refusing the CSI team members entry to investigate the Smurls home and held a press conference claiming he had tapes of terrifying sounds and video of the dark shape the family reported,
• 30:01
  Leyla Zmeskal: That does sound oddly familiar from a story that I just did.
• 30:07
  Trisha Smith: But when he was asked to present them, he couldn't remember which TV company he gave them to, and claimed the Catholic Church had copies, which they've denied.
• 30:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: Shocking, can't find the evidence. Sounds so similar to another story.
• 30:28
  Trisha Smith: Many of those involved say the family was sincere, and that something happened, something happened in that house.
• 30:36
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right.
• 30:36
  Trisha Smith: But the facts available and lack of proof don't support a demonic presence.
• 30:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's an other oddly similar,
• 30:45
  Trisha Smith: Right. Last week when I was listening to your story. And then I was I had already had mine ready. And I'm thinking about everything I had.
• 30:54
  Trisha Smith: I mean, it was like we we had done the same story just with different names,
• 31:00
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right,
• 31:00
  Trisha Smith: Just with different names,
• 31:01
  Leyla Zmeskal: Just with different Yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely.
• 31:03
  Trisha Smith: They were so similar,
• 31:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: For except that I don't think the Snedekers were sincere,
• 31:10
  Trisha Smith: Right. And this was a little a little bit later.
• 31:14
  Trisha Smith: I mean, this was 1986, no it would be about the same timeframe. When was the Snedeker family? Wasn't it in the mid mid to late 80s, or early 90s, or something like that? I thought,
• 31:29
  Leyla Zmeskal: Da da da da 86.
• 31:29
  Leyla Zmeskal: So yeah,
• 31:33
  Trisha Smith: So yeah, it's just it's crazy how similar those two stories are. And then when we were watching The Conjuring how similar their story was, as well. And it just seemed like there's a really huge pattern going on.
• 31:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, absolutely.
• 31:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: Like with the Snedekers, I'm sure that there were some odd things that happened in the house. But just like with the Smurls, I'm sure there was some things that happen in the house, whether they can be explained away or not.
• 32:08
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 32:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: There we're still odd things that happen in the house. However, it seems like everything kind of got blown out of control and kind of escalated to a point of sensationalism.
• 32:20
  Trisha Smith: Right, So the one key thing that I noticed between the two families, though, is that last week's story, the mom or you know, what was her name?
• 32:30
  Trisha Smith: I don't remember her name,
• 32:32
  Leyla Zmeskal: Carmen now Reed,
• 32:33
  Trisha Smith: She went on to be a,
• 32:35
  Leyla Zmeskal: Psychic advisor.
• 32:37
  Trisha Smith: Right. Whereas in this story, Janet Smurl went on and she was like, I just don't want any other I don't want any more attention.
• 32:44
  Leyla Zmeskal: They just got their money and run.
• 32:45
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, yeah. But they didn't go far.
• 32:48
  Leyla Zmeskal: Well, you know, maybe they like the area. Just maybe they like the local notoriety, like, we're not gonna greedy, you just use a little.
• 32:57
  Leyla Zmeskal: Make sure we're comfortable for the rest of lives. And the Warrens are probably like, we'll make that happen. Your story's interesting. We could do something with it. It's just not a blockbuster.
• 33:10
  Trisha Smith: Right, So one thing that I found interesting when I was researching this story, because you know, when you look up one you,
• 33:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: There's a knock in your house just now. Did you hear that? I heard it, it was just one not three.
• 33:26
  Trisha Smith: Oh, well, then it's nothing.
• 33:28
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'm looking at the light to make sure it doesn't flicker again.
• 33:30
  Trisha Smith: That was weird, wasn't it? We're nowhere near the light it just,
• 33:34
  Leyla Zmeskal: Before we started recording. Trisha has a desktop lamp and it kind of flickered,
• 33:40
  Trisha Smith: Just like dimmed all the way down and then turned back on.
• 33:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah,
• 33:44
  Trisha Smith: For no reason.
• 33:44
  Trisha Smith: We're not anywhere near it.
• 33:45
  Leyla Zmeskal: And wer're both like,
• 33:47
  Trisha Smith: What the hell.
• 33:48
  Leyla Zmeskal: We were talking about weird stuff in her house at the same at the time.
• 33:52
  Trisha Smith: We were, do it again,
• 33:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: You're being audio recorded.
• 33:57
  Trisha Smith: No one can see.
• 33:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: We'll never be able to find the video recording of this. Will misplace it. Of course.
• 34:05
  Trisha Smith: Darn it, I could have called the Warrens.
• 34:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: Zaffis, lead investigator of things.
• 34:12
  Trisha Smith: But yeah, it is. I mean, it makes you wonder.
• 34:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: It does. And, did you hear that again?
• 34:19
  Trisha Smith: House settling?
• 34:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay, fine. If it does it one more time.
• 34:25
  Trisha Smith: But you have to remember the timeframe to. We're talking from what the 70s to the late 80s. Right when the Warrens were really at their prime.
• 34:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right, right.
• 34:39
  Trisha Smith: So how many ghost hunting shows, paranormal shows were on TV during that timeframe.
• 34:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: I don't think very many because during that time was the height of the panic. I mean, and and certain people were like going after everything like isn't that the time when the music industry was coming over heavy, heavy scrutiny?
• 35:02
  Trisha Smith: Wo was the one that,
• 35:04
  Leyla Zmeskal: Tipper Gore,
• 35:05
  Trisha Smith: Oh, yes.
• 35:06
  Leyla Zmeskal: And with Dee Snider,
• 35:08
  Trisha Smith: Yes.
• 35:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: Like he she expected to just like smear him and he's like showed up and he was very well spoken, very eloquent. And there he's basically like, I'm going to verbally smack you now Tipper and you're going to take it and just when you think I'm done, I'm going to do it some more.
• 35:26
  Trisha Smith: So yeah, that that definitely helped propel them for sure.
• 35:31
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah,
• 35:31
  Trisha Smith: We're going to talk about the more famous cases, of the Warrens, and how they differ from fact versus reality. Because everything we've read, especially about the movies, yeah, everything we've read about the movies are in complete contradiction to what people who were there, or people who knew about the cases, actually experienced
• 36:00
  Leyla Zmeskal: Which you you can kind of on a certain level give an understanding that there is some creative licensing, you know, going on to make the movie interesting, and scary. However, that's the movie version. I'm like, why would you do it for the book?
• 36:21
  Trisha Smith: Right, you know, with the Conjuring movies more recently, you know, like in the 2000s. Those movies actually included Ed and Lorraine Warren, in their versions. Whereas like Amityville, and,
• 36:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah, they were not.
• 36:38
  Trisha Smith: They were earlier.
• 36:38
  Trisha Smith: They were not they investigated, but they weren't mentioned.
• 36:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right,
• 36:42
  Trisha Smith: Although we found out that they were involved in their book dealings and things like Yeah,
• 36:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: Which came after they supposedly left the house.
• 36:50
  Trisha Smith: But even their portrayals have garnered a lot of questions, right? Because she before she passed away, she was when she was a consultant on that original Conjuring movie.
• 37:04
  Trisha Smith: And she said, you know, there were some creative, you know?
• 37:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: Leeway,
• 37:10
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, but how they were portrayed was very accurate. And that was not anything that I read,
• 37:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: Highly accurate drawings.
• 37:23
  Trisha Smith: So yeah, looking forward to discussing yeah,
• 37:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah, we were gonna just jump right in to the Warrens, but there was just so much and it became kind of like, alright, we need a tie in to tie in to that. So,
• 37:37
  Trisha Smith: Right,
• 37:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: So we're gonna give you a little extra bonus.
• 37:40
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. Which means we get to watch some extra movies, which I enjoy. So,
• 37:44
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'm enjoying watching these because I haven't seen some of these movies in like, a long time, right? Like, I can't tell you when the last time I seen Amityville.
• 37:52
  Trisha Smith: I had to rewatch the Annabelle movies. I will say I like the way those all tied together from a movie perspective. But I just kind of touched on the actual real story about Annabelle so now I got to rewatch the movie. So I do that this week.
• 38:10
  Leyla Zmeskal: But you know, I still because I do like movies.
• 38:13
  Leyla Zmeskal: So no matter what the controversy is, if you like the movies, watch the movies because I do enjoy watching the movies just for enjoyment.
• 38:22
  Trisha Smith: From a paranormal perspective. I do enjoy diving
• 38:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: Double edged sword.
• 38:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: into how the Warrens were involved in all of this. I mean, they had a lot of contributions to, you know, paranormal research. They also created a lot of controversy. So you know, kind of like,
• 38:42
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, diving into that. It's just been very overwhelming, but also very,
• 38:48
  Leyla Zmeskal: Fastinating,
• 38:48
  Trisha Smith: Interesting. Yeah, so All right, well, next, we'll be back with more tales of the Warrens.
• 38:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: Stay tuned.
• 38:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: Cheers.
• 38:58
  Trisha Smith: Cheers.
• 38:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hey, like what you hear.
• 39:01
  Diane Black: Check us out on Instagram.
• 39:02
  Trisha Smith: Or send us a message at Boozy Banter with Friends.com
• 39:06
  Leyla Zmeskal: Thanks for listening.
• 39:07
  Trisha Smith: Until next time,
• 39:08
  Diane Black: Late-a.