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S1E3: A Monster Among Us, Part 2 · Blood Trails

0:00
Speaker 1: This episode contains discussion of crimes involving sexual violence and murder.
0:04
Speaker 1: It also deals with suicide. Listener discretion is advised. If
0:09
Speaker 1: you or someone you know is having thoughts of suicide,
0:11
Speaker 1: caller text nine to eight eight to reach the suicide
0:14
Speaker 1: and Crisis lifeline.
0:17
Speaker 2: This is part two of our two part series on
0:19
Speaker 2: the murder of fifteen year old Danny Houchens. If you
0:22
Speaker 2: haven't already, go back and listen to part one. It
0:25
Speaker 2: tells the story of how investigators cracked the thirty year
0:28
Speaker 2: old cold case and tried to bring a hunter and
0:31
Speaker 2: BLM biologist named Paul Hutchinson to justice. But they never
0:35
Speaker 2: got the chance to prosecute the case in court because
0:38
Speaker 2: after their initial interview, Paul drove to the outskirts of
0:41
Speaker 2: town and shot himself. Our story picks up there. Paul's
0:48
Speaker 2: suicide was his final act of cowardice. He saved himself
0:52
Speaker 2: the pain of facing his family, friends, and co workers,
0:55
Speaker 2: not to mention Danny's family. Meanwhile, his actions introduced a
0:59
Speaker 2: whole new level of pain and confusion to those who
1:02
Speaker 2: knew him and cared about him. Those people have been
1:05
Speaker 2: left to grapple with questions without the opportunity to ever
1:09
Speaker 2: have them answered. Paul's immediate family declined to speak with
1:13
Speaker 2: us for this podcast, but his nephew, Zach Hutchinson reached out.
1:18
Speaker 2: Zach is the son of Paul's older brother, and he
1:20
Speaker 2: knew Paul before he left.
1:21
Speaker 3: For the Marine Corps.
1:22
Speaker 2: That's the detail of Paul's life we'll get to in
1:25
Speaker 2: a few minutes. Zach says he had many fond memories
1:29
Speaker 2: of hunting and fishing with his uncle, and he never
1:31
Speaker 2: saw the side of Paul that could rape and murder
1:33
Speaker 2: a fifteen year old.
1:35
Speaker 4: It's been really difficult because it's kind of like when
1:38
Speaker 4: you find out your hero is a fraud.
1:41
Speaker 5: This guy was like one.
1:42
Speaker 4: Of the most pure versions of a role model that
1:45
Speaker 4: I had growing up my whole life, and then when
1:48
Speaker 4: this came out, I just felt like it was all
1:49
Speaker 4: a fraud. It's not like something where I can just
1:52
Speaker 4: say there's like an exac feel And I mean, I've
1:54
Speaker 4: been angry and I've been sad, and I've had a
1:57
Speaker 4: lot of remorse for what I have been or why
2:01
Speaker 4: this happened, and like, I've thought a lot about all
2:03
Speaker 4: of this stuff, and I have a lot of empathy
2:06
Speaker 4: for the victim's family and everything they went through. I mean,
2:09
Speaker 4: it's terrible to have our name associated with such a
2:14
Speaker 4: atrocity like this.
2:16
Speaker 2: That association has made it difficult for Paul's family, especially
2:19
Speaker 2: his wife and kids who live in Dylan. I've been
2:21
Speaker 2: told that their house has been vandalized and that threats
2:24
Speaker 2: forced them to call off Paul's memorial service. Zach said
2:28
Speaker 2: he hasn't heard from them since the news came out
2:30
Speaker 2: about Danny, but he understands the reaction from their community.
2:34
Speaker 6: I think it's a really natural thing for the public
2:37
Speaker 6: in general to need somebody to blame that still here
2:39
Speaker 6: so they get all of the anger and frustration that
2:43
Speaker 6: should have been directed towards Paul, and instead his kids
2:47
Speaker 6: and wife have to take.
2:48
Speaker 5: The brunch of all that.
2:50
Speaker 2: Christy Hutchinson, Paul's wife, hasn't spoken to the media, but
2:53
Speaker 2: she did leave a note on what used to be
2:55
Speaker 2: Paul's obituary on the funeral home website. She said, quote,
2:59
Speaker 2: we are sly heartbroken to learn this news, and our
3:02
Speaker 2: hearts go out to the Houchen's family. It is good
3:04
Speaker 2: to know that they will at last be able to
3:06
Speaker 2: find the closure that they deserve. Our own family was
3:09
Speaker 2: already reeling from dealing with Paul's suicide in twenty four
3:12
Speaker 2: years of marriage. There was never any hint that something
3:15
Speaker 2: like this could be lurking in the background. Paul was
3:18
Speaker 2: an exceptional husband and father. This latest news makes our
3:21
Speaker 2: grieving so much more complicated. Of course, his family weren't
3:26
Speaker 2: the only people to be confused and disturbed by Paul's actions.
3:29
Speaker 2: We heard from many people who had hunted with Paul
3:32
Speaker 2: from all across the country. Some had hunted with him
3:34
Speaker 2: for years, while others had only gone out with him
3:36
Speaker 2: a few times. Many remembered that he was always happy
3:39
Speaker 2: to share hunting tips and tactics, and he was active
3:42
Speaker 2: on forums like hunt talk and various Facebook groups.
3:46
Speaker 3: One hunter named.
3:47
Speaker 2: Bryant Jones were called bumping into Paul while hunting elk
3:50
Speaker 2: in a remote area he thought no one else knew about.
3:53
Speaker 2: Bryant invited him to share his campsite, but Paul said
3:56
Speaker 2: he wanted to hunt alone. Bryant lives in the same
3:59
Speaker 2: county as Paul, and they saw each other again a
4:01
Speaker 2: few times after that. He said in an email quote,
4:05
Speaker 2: we always seem to share a commonality of elk and hunting,
4:09
Speaker 2: a sense of respect, knowing he had the same drive
4:11
Speaker 2: and passion for ELK that I did. And after all,
4:14
Speaker 2: we shared a secret hunting spot that neither of us
4:17
Speaker 2: were willing to share with just anyone. I guess you
4:20
Speaker 2: could say Paul was good at keeping secrets. Another hunter
4:26
Speaker 2: named Heath Smith described a kind of interaction we heard
4:28
Speaker 2: a lot during the course of this investigation. Heath met
4:31
Speaker 2: Paul on a Facebook group dedicated to turkey hunting.
4:35
Speaker 5: I asked a question about some states, and he was
4:38
Speaker 5: super helpful. He reached out and said, Hey, you know,
4:41
Speaker 5: I hunt all over the country. I'm trying to kill
4:43
Speaker 5: a turkey in all forty nine states. I do hunt swaps.
4:47
Speaker 5: You know, where are you going? How can I help you?
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Speaker 5: You know, I'll point you in the right direction. Basically
4:52
Speaker 5: super nice.
4:53
Speaker 2: Paul agreed to take Heath turkey hunting in Montana in
4:55
Speaker 2: the hopes that Heath would return the favor and host
4:58
Speaker 2: Paul in his home state of Illinois. Heith and his
5:01
Speaker 2: cousin traveled up to Montana in twenty twenty two, and
5:03
Speaker 2: they planned to hunt along the Yellowstone. At this point,
5:06
Speaker 2: he'd been messaging with Paul and calling him on the
5:08
Speaker 2: phone for almost two years, which is why he felt
5:11
Speaker 2: comfortable making this joke that in retrospect is not funny.
5:17
Speaker 5: I actually remember on making a joke when we got
5:21
Speaker 5: in the truck, kind of hey, Paul, where our families
5:24
Speaker 5: are worried about us? You know, they think you might
5:26
Speaker 5: be a killer. Kind of joke. We all had a
5:28
Speaker 5: laugh and down the road we went.
5:31
Speaker 2: Heith says they had a great time. They killed a
5:33
Speaker 2: few turkeys and agreed to host Paul in Illinois. The
5:36
Speaker 2: next spring, Heath got a camper from his cousin and
5:38
Speaker 2: they parked it in Heath's driveway for Paul to sleep in.
5:42
Speaker 2: I asked, Heith, what you're probably thinking looking back? Did
5:45
Speaker 2: Paul say or do anything that he now sees in
5:49
Speaker 2: a new light? He said their interactions with him were
5:52
Speaker 2: always positive, but at the same time I.
5:55
Speaker 5: Could see there being another side of him, Like he
5:59
Speaker 5: was definitely an awkward dude. Like I said, my wife
6:03
Speaker 5: has the Spidey sense, you know, when he left, she
6:06
Speaker 5: definitely had the hebegbis And maybe we just were kind
6:10
Speaker 5: of blind to it. I don't know.
6:11
Speaker 2: This description of Paul as awkward or off putting was
6:15
Speaker 2: echoed by another hunter from the mid Atlantic region who
6:18
Speaker 2: swapped waterfowling trips with Paul. In the early twenty tens,
6:21
Speaker 2: he traveled up to Great Falls, Montana, and Paul was
6:24
Speaker 2: supposed to pick him up from the airport, but he
6:27
Speaker 2: never showed. Paul eventually showed up and they hunted with
6:30
Speaker 2: him for a few days, but then he vanished. This
6:34
Speaker 2: hunter says they woke up one morning and Paul wasn't
6:37
Speaker 2: in his hotel room and his truck was gone. They
6:39
Speaker 2: tried calling him, but he never responded. This hunter also
6:43
Speaker 2: commented that to him, Paul's anti social behavior was noticeable
6:47
Speaker 2: enough that he wasn't surprised to learn about his crimes.
6:53
Speaker 2: Of course, not all socially awkward people are murderers, and
6:56
Speaker 2: everyone has a bad day or a bad week, but
6:59
Speaker 2: the fact that Paul traveled so much to hunt and
7:02
Speaker 2: had so much opportunity to be alone with people in
7:04
Speaker 2: the wilderness is obviously concerning. We also heard from several
7:10
Speaker 2: of Paul's coworkers who spent time with them as part
7:12
Speaker 2: of their work for the Bureau of Land Management. These
7:15
Speaker 2: individuals would go out with Paul, often by themselves, into
7:18
Speaker 2: the mountains around Dylan to do fish population surveys. Using
7:22
Speaker 2: a method called electro shocking, where fish are stunned by
7:26
Speaker 2: an electric current and then can be collected in a net.
7:29
Speaker 2: When Tom Elfmott heard about this, he had a recommendation
7:33
Speaker 2: for BLM law enforcement.
7:35
Speaker 7: I recommended to the BLM law enforcement that they go
7:39
Speaker 7: back and they interview female interns who worked for the
7:44
Speaker 7: BLM in the summers with him for the least the
7:46
Speaker 7: past five years to see if there was anything appropriate
7:51
Speaker 7: inappropriate that went on that he might have done, like hey, look,
7:56
Speaker 7: if you really want a full time job with BLM.
8:00
Speaker 3: Know we're out here in the middle of the woods,
8:02
Speaker 3: so you gotta do this or you gotta do that.
8:06
Speaker 2: We spoke with two of these young women, both of
8:08
Speaker 2: whom you heard in the intro to Part one. Jordan
8:12
Speaker 2: Walker told us she went into the mountains with Paul
8:14
Speaker 2: and had a terrible time. She said he was impatient
8:18
Speaker 2: as she struggled to catch the electro shocked fish, and
8:20
Speaker 2: the experience made her decide to pursue something other than
8:24
Speaker 2: fishery science.
8:25
Speaker 8: So when I went out there, I didn't know what
8:27
Speaker 8: I was doing, and he was We were shocking fish
8:30
Speaker 8: that day, and I would have to grab him and
8:33
Speaker 8: put them in a bucket. Well, I couldn't see all
8:36
Speaker 8: those little one inch brown ones in the muddy water,
8:39
Speaker 8: and so he was getting super super upset with me.
8:42
Speaker 2: Nothing else happened that day, but Jordan was understandably upset
8:46
Speaker 2: when she heard about what Paul had done.
8:49
Speaker 8: I was at a little spooked, for sure. I guess
8:52
Speaker 8: I've just kind of looked back on the day and
8:53
Speaker 8: I was like, man, anything could have happened to me.
8:57
Speaker 8: I had no clue where where I was or whatever,
9:00
Speaker 8: and I'm sure most people didn't know exactly where we were.
9:04
Speaker 8: It would have been easy to get away with anything. Really.
9:08
Speaker 2: Jordan wasn't the only newbie to go into the mountains
9:11
Speaker 2: with Paul that summer. She told me that Paul's usual
9:13
Speaker 2: partner had left the BLM unexpectedly, and so Paul needed
9:16
Speaker 2: people to come out and help him. According to Jordan,
9:19
Speaker 2: there was some discussion in the BLM office about why
9:22
Speaker 2: this man left.
9:24
Speaker 8: I know some people were wondering what happened to the
9:27
Speaker 8: person that worked with him for ten years. Paul was
9:30
Speaker 8: saying some stuff afterwards, like you can't tell people anything,
9:34
Speaker 8: and they were just kind of wondering what happened with
9:36
Speaker 8: him because I know you'd like that job.
9:40
Speaker 2: We reached out to Paul's work partner, but he declined
9:43
Speaker 2: to be interviewed for this podcast. This partner never came
9:46
Speaker 2: up in Tom's interview with Paul, but he did mention
9:49
Speaker 2: having to work with new seasonal employees, so.
9:52
Speaker 3: You train him up.
9:53
Speaker 5: Is he kind of doing an internship?
9:55
Speaker 8: Is that what it is?
9:56
Speaker 9: No seasonal technician?
9:58
Speaker 3: Well, they break him in just for certain times of
9:59
Speaker 3: the year or something.
10:00
Speaker 9: Yeah, we got for the summer and there's a young
10:03
Speaker 9: lady working with him and neither No, they didn't know
10:07
Speaker 9: what they're doing.
10:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jordan was eighteen years old this summer. She spent
10:11
Speaker 2: that day with Paul. Another young woman who spoke to
10:14
Speaker 2: us anonymously due to fear of professional repercussions, described a
10:18
Speaker 2: much better experience with a fifty five year old man.
10:21
Speaker 2: This woman, who will call Molly, had never been electro fishing,
10:25
Speaker 2: but she says Paul was pleasant to be around, if
10:27
Speaker 2: a little reserved.
10:29
Speaker 10: He had some embarrassing stories about my supervisor to tell,
10:33
Speaker 10: just as far as like teaching him how to snow
10:35
Speaker 10: machine and all that good stuff. And then the thing
10:39
Speaker 10: that we actually were able to talk about a whole
10:42
Speaker 10: bunch was his family and his kids.
10:44
Speaker 2: The day was uneventful otherwise, and Molly was grateful to
10:47
Speaker 2: put electro fishing experience on her resume, but her good
10:52
Speaker 2: day with Paul made what he did to Danny even
10:56
Speaker 2: more confusing.
10:57
Speaker 10: So there were two like really hard things for me initially,
11:01
Speaker 10: the first being how do I interact with coworkers in
11:06
Speaker 10: the future that I don't know very well or even
11:08
Speaker 10: that I do know very well. Right, in these jobs,
11:11
Speaker 10: you go out for sometimes a week or so at
11:14
Speaker 10: a time in places with no service. You have to
11:17
Speaker 10: trust the people that you're out there with. So like
11:20
Speaker 10: coming to terms with like not being afraid was something
11:23
Speaker 10: that I had to go through. And then the other
11:27
Speaker 10: thing that I had to think about a lot was
11:29
Speaker 10: like this idea of how do the actions of your
11:33
Speaker 10: mentors or the people who are teaching you things change
11:37
Speaker 10: your experience or does it change your experience?
11:40
Speaker 5: Right?
11:40
Speaker 10: So, like Paul is the one who taught me how
11:42
Speaker 10: to electrofish, and that was kind of huge for getting
11:46
Speaker 10: me to where I am today. And so just like, yeah,
11:48
Speaker 10: wrestling with that question of like does that change where
11:52
Speaker 10: I am? And like the path that got me here,
11:55
Speaker 10: you know, we.
11:57
Speaker 2: Spoke with unofficial with knowledge of Paul's case, who was
12:00
Speaker 2: also granted anonymity due to professional repercussions of talking to us.
12:04
Speaker 2: This person told us that there were a number of
12:06
Speaker 2: seasonal employees who worked with Paul but then never returned
12:10
Speaker 2: to the BLM. This person said the reason those seasonal
12:13
Speaker 2: workers didn't return is because they were quote creeped out
12:16
Speaker 2: by him. At the same time, Paul's coworkers never formally
12:20
Speaker 2: complained about him to the BLM. This could be exonerating
12:25
Speaker 2: or it could be suspicious. It's easy to lodge a
12:29
Speaker 2: complaint with the agency, so officials were surprised to learn
12:32
Speaker 2: that no one had ever complained about Paul. We asked
12:36
Speaker 2: the BLM to confirm these details about Paul's personnel record,
12:40
Speaker 2: but the agency declined to comment. After the break, we
12:46
Speaker 2: look to the future. Stephanie tells me about her fight
12:49
Speaker 2: to improve Montana's law enforcement system. We hear from a
12:52
Speaker 2: forensic psychologist about whether Paul could have committed other crimes,
12:56
Speaker 2: and Steve Vernella gives us an inside look at how
12:59
Speaker 2: this story has impact did hunters and anglers in the
13:01
Speaker 2: Boseman area.
13:02
Speaker 3: That's next on Blood Trails Part six.
13:13
Speaker 2: Moving forward, It's been a little over a year since
13:17
Speaker 2: Paul killed himself on July twenty fourth, twenty twenty four,
13:21
Speaker 2: but this story is far from over. Stephanie has launched
13:24
Speaker 2: an advocacy campaign to address what she describes as serious
13:28
Speaker 2: flaws in Montana's law enforcement capabilities. Here she is during
13:31
Speaker 2: a press conference shortly after the resolution.
13:34
Speaker 3: Of the case.
13:35
Speaker 11: Call and write to your legislators. Demand adequate funding for
13:40
Speaker 11: the Montana State Crime Lab. Demand a news system of
13:45
Speaker 11: peer review for law enforcement when a violent rape and
13:49
Speaker 11: murder happens in their jurisdiction. Demand a centralized database of
13:54
Speaker 11: cold cases in this state. We must demand better for
14:00
Speaker 11: victims of sexual assault and murder in Montana.
14:05
Speaker 12: Thank you.
14:12
Speaker 2: The Montana State Legislature has so far declined to increase
14:15
Speaker 2: funding for law enforcement or institute a cold case database,
14:19
Speaker 2: but Stephanie is currently raising money to found a volunteer
14:22
Speaker 2: case review committee with the Montana Peace Officers Association, and
14:26
Speaker 2: she's gaining traction.
14:28
Speaker 11: If victims families like me don't fight for victims and
14:33
Speaker 11: families like who's going to I'll see through the accountability
14:38
Speaker 11: and justice for my sister. But the next phase for
14:42
Speaker 11: me is really figuring out how I try to make
14:44
Speaker 11: it better.
14:45
Speaker 2: And Stephanie says she's fighting for justice for her sister.
14:48
Speaker 2: She doesn't just mean that figuratively on behalf of her
14:52
Speaker 2: sister's estate. She told me she plans to file a
14:55
Speaker 2: wrongful death lawsuit against Paul Hutchinson's estate.
14:58
Speaker 11: What is really important to me going forward is that
15:03
Speaker 11: other rapists and murderers don't think that the pathway of
15:08
Speaker 11: taking your own life is a viable pathway to dodge
15:11
Speaker 11: accountability for your violence and your crimes. So I'm going
15:17
Speaker 11: to see that accountability through.
15:19
Speaker 2: I asked Stephanie what she would say to someone who
15:22
Speaker 2: would question the justice of suing the Hutchinson family when
15:25
Speaker 2: they're not the ones who committed the crime.
15:28
Speaker 11: I have certainly had people approach me with the sentiment
15:32
Speaker 11: that Paul Hutchinson's family is a victim are victims too
15:36
Speaker 11: of what he did. And while that may be true,
15:40
Speaker 11: the victimization of Paul Hutchinson's family is not my responsibility.
15:44
Speaker 11: The victimization of the Hutchins family and of Danielle Houchins
15:48
Speaker 11: is my responsibility. And at the end of the day,
15:52
Speaker 11: victims who have birthdays are less of a victim than
15:56
Speaker 11: victims who don't.
16:01
Speaker 2: Zach Hutchinson, Paul's nephew, does believe Paul's wife and kids
16:05
Speaker 2: were victims. At the same time, he understands why Stephanie
16:09
Speaker 2: and Danny's family filed the lawsuit.
16:11
Speaker 4: I think that's a perfectly natural response to them, because again,
16:16
Speaker 4: it's really difficult to have anger towards somebody that's dead.
16:20
Speaker 4: It's really difficult to have accountability to somebody who is unaccountable.
16:26
Speaker 5: So I mean, I think that that's a very natural reaction.
16:30
Speaker 2: Of course, the biggest question, the one that we may
16:33
Speaker 2: never have a good answer to, is whether Danny was
16:36
Speaker 2: Paul Hutchinson's only victim. Galaton County Sheriff Dan Springer told
16:41
Speaker 2: me that they've submitted Paul's case profile to local, state,
16:44
Speaker 2: and federal databases. If they find Paul's DNA on another
16:48
Speaker 2: victim or law enforcement in another jurisdiction see similarities between
16:52
Speaker 2: Danny's death and other cold cases, they'll be able to
16:55
Speaker 2: flag it. So far as far as Sheriff Springer knows,
16:59
Speaker 2: there haven't been any connections made to other victims, but
17:03
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean they aren't out there to help me
17:06
Speaker 2: shed more light on this question, I reached out to
17:09
Speaker 2: doctor Jeff Kalshevsky. Doctor Koallshevski is a forensic psychologist with
17:13
Speaker 2: a doctorate from the University of Iowa. He's basically spent
17:17
Speaker 2: his entire career talking to criminals. He worked in prisons
17:20
Speaker 2: for a long time doing psychological evaluations, and he spent
17:24
Speaker 2: the last quarter century in private practice doing the same
17:27
Speaker 2: thing in other criminal cases. If you've committed a crime
17:30
Speaker 2: and want to plead insanity, he's the guy you have
17:33
Speaker 2: to convince that you're not competent to stand trial. I
17:37
Speaker 2: asked doctor Kolshewsky whether, in his professional opinion, someone could
17:41
Speaker 2: rape and murder a fifteen year old girl and then
17:44
Speaker 2: go on to live a crime free life.
17:47
Speaker 12: That's a tough question, because, let me tell you, I've
17:49
Speaker 12: talked to people who've done terrible, egregious things like this.
17:54
Speaker 12: Kaikark And said they always fantasized about doing it, and
17:59
Speaker 12: then they did it, and the fantasy did not meet
18:03
Speaker 12: up to the reality, and then it became a proverbial
18:06
Speaker 12: skeleton in their closet, and then they were caught many
18:09
Speaker 12: years later. I think we don't know enough about the
18:12
Speaker 12: case hat to really go in either direction.
18:16
Speaker 2: Doctor Kolshevski never interviewed Paul and hasn't seen the case file,
18:19
Speaker 2: so he didn't want to speak definitively on this question. However,
18:23
Speaker 2: he does host a YouTube channel where he offers his
18:26
Speaker 2: opinion on high profile cases and criminals, and he was
18:29
Speaker 2: willing to give me his general thoughts based on his
18:31
Speaker 2: decades of experience interviewing inmates. One of the things that
18:35
Speaker 2: stood out to doctor Kolshewski was Paul's military career when
18:39
Speaker 2: he served for four years in the Marine Corps.
18:42
Speaker 12: I'd really be interested in what happened during his military career,
18:46
Speaker 12: you know, was there anything there were there any misconducts
18:49
Speaker 12: where was he stationed to Because I've had some cases where, unfortunately,
18:55
Speaker 12: if someone has a twisted sexual paraphilia or perversion, I've
19:00
Speaker 12: had cases where these guys were in the military and
19:03
Speaker 12: they were in third world countries where they could engage
19:07
Speaker 12: in some of that stuff without being caught, and then
19:10
Speaker 12: once they're out of the military, that paraphilia is strong
19:14
Speaker 12: and they can't really exercise that as easily here as
19:19
Speaker 12: they could say in a third world country. If that
19:21
Speaker 12: appetite is wetted and that parophilia becomes strong. Unfortunately, sometimes
19:26
Speaker 12: it's just a matter of time before it comes out,
19:28
Speaker 12: and it could be an opportunity like what happened in
19:31
Speaker 12: this case.
19:36
Speaker 2: I haven't seen Paul's military record myself, but Tom Elfmont
19:39
Speaker 2: was able to secure a copy. He told me Paul
19:41
Speaker 2: did basic training at Camp Le June in North Carolina
19:45
Speaker 2: and was stationed for a time in Alaska. Paul was
19:48
Speaker 2: in the infantry, but he never served in combat and
19:50
Speaker 2: didn't get into any official trouble. Tom asked Paul about
19:54
Speaker 2: his military service during that initial interview.
19:57
Speaker 7: You know, I liked it.
20:00
Speaker 9: If they would have given me what I wanted, I
20:01
Speaker 9: would have relisted. I had I had fun. You look back,
20:04
Speaker 9: did you either want to deserve?
20:06
Speaker 5: Yeah?
20:06
Speaker 8: I did.
20:06
Speaker 9: You know, so you look back at boot camp, and
20:08
Speaker 9: it's one thing when you look back, that stuff was funny.
20:12
Speaker 2: Yeah when you were there.
20:13
Speaker 3: What you want to do?
20:16
Speaker 9: I wanted to I wanted to go Security Forces, and
20:19
Speaker 9: you got to pick. There's a hardship and then there's
20:22
Speaker 9: what they called the gravy tour. I actually wanted two
20:26
Speaker 9: of the hardships I wanted. I spent six months in
20:28
Speaker 9: South America. I want to go back to South America. Yeah,
20:30
Speaker 9: they wouldn't do it.
20:31
Speaker 2: We don't know why Paul was in South America or
20:34
Speaker 2: why he wanted to go back. We also can't say
20:36
Speaker 2: for sure whether or not Paul's time in the military
20:38
Speaker 2: had anything to do with his subsequent behavior. Zach Hutchinson
20:42
Speaker 2: believes his uncle's time in the Marines may have changed him,
20:45
Speaker 2: but right now we don't have any direct evidence that
20:48
Speaker 2: suggests it did. Doctor Karlschewski was also interested in Paul's
20:52
Speaker 2: response to being confronted, probably for the very first time,
20:56
Speaker 2: about Danny.
20:57
Speaker 12: One thing that was a bit surprising for me was
20:59
Speaker 12: a suicide, particularly with a guy who is a skilled
21:03
Speaker 12: and experienced outdoorsman. He could have tried to sort of
21:07
Speaker 12: make a run for it, and just that how upset
21:10
Speaker 12: he became after he saw that photo. If he was
21:15
Speaker 12: a serial killer, this is sort of odd to say
21:19
Speaker 12: he wasn't really that good at it and didn't have
21:21
Speaker 12: much of a stomach for it, because a lot of
21:23
Speaker 12: times with these experienced serial killers, when they're presented and
21:27
Speaker 12: faced with the evidence or information about the victim, they
21:31
Speaker 12: don't have an emotional reaction like that.
21:34
Speaker 2: To say that Paul may not have been a serial
21:36
Speaker 2: killer is hardly exonerating, and doctor Kelshewsky pointed out that
21:40
Speaker 2: there have been serial killers who aren't psychopaths who do
21:43
Speaker 2: feel empathy. It's also true that no one really knows
21:46
Speaker 2: why Paul committed suicide. He may have done it because
21:49
Speaker 2: he was upset about Danny, or he may have had
21:51
Speaker 2: another reason. But if we're trying to figure out whether
21:54
Speaker 2: Paul victimized other people, his decision to take his own
21:58
Speaker 2: life is another factor that doctor kel Schevsky would consider.
22:02
Speaker 2: I also pose this question to Tom, who knows Paul's
22:05
Speaker 2: file better than anyone.
22:07
Speaker 7: I would think that the propensity would be for him
22:10
Speaker 7: to have done other things. But he may have just
22:14
Speaker 7: committed rapes. He may have just done in decent exposure
22:19
Speaker 7: where he's in the woods and some woman's walking her
22:21
Speaker 7: dog along a canal or something. He could be responsible
22:26
Speaker 7: for other sex crimes, but the murder was probably because
22:31
Speaker 7: he panicked and Danny was trying to get away and
22:35
Speaker 7: he killed her.
22:36
Speaker 2: Tom shared two pieces of information from his investigation that
22:39
Speaker 2: led him to believe in Paul's propensity towards sexual crimes.
22:43
Speaker 7: One of the telling things was I reached out to
22:46
Speaker 7: his fiance who lived with him in nineteen ninety six,
22:51
Speaker 7: and I asked her, did you ever recognize or see
22:57
Speaker 7: any abnormal or unus usual sexual behaviors.
23:02
Speaker 3: On his part?
23:03
Speaker 7: And she declined to answer, and then just never called
23:07
Speaker 7: me back after that. And the other thing was after
23:11
Speaker 7: his funeral, his sister called his wife and it was
23:16
Speaker 7: then reported to the sheriff and Dylan that he made
23:20
Speaker 7: an advance on their ten year old his ten year
23:24
Speaker 7: old niece years and years ago in an attempt to
23:27
Speaker 7: molest her, and they never reported it to the police.
23:32
Speaker 7: So it's still a mystery. But you know, if I
23:36
Speaker 7: got a phone call today from a small sheriff's department
23:40
Speaker 7: in East Texas and they said, you know, we went
23:44
Speaker 7: through our files and in nineteen ninety five or eight
23:48
Speaker 7: or two thousand and one, we found a woman who
23:52
Speaker 7: was raped along a river, and we checked and we
23:56
Speaker 7: found out Paul had a turkey hunting license in tech
24:00
Speaker 7: just at that time.
24:01
Speaker 3: It wouldn't surprise me.
24:02
Speaker 2: At all if there are any other victims out there.
24:05
Speaker 2: Doctor Kolshewski believes the fact pattern in those cases will
24:09
Speaker 2: be similar to what happened along the Gallatin River.
24:12
Speaker 12: If the person is a serial killer and they develop
24:14
Speaker 12: a career as a killer. They tend to use similar methods.
24:19
Speaker 12: It may change over time, but similar methods. They tend
24:22
Speaker 12: to pick similar victims. They tend to pick similar settings.
24:26
Speaker 12: They do become a bit creatures a habit because one
24:28
Speaker 12: of the reinforcements they get from this act is kind
24:32
Speaker 12: of carrying out those habits and rituals. So looking for
24:36
Speaker 12: those kind of things will be important.
24:44
Speaker 2: Part seven Close to home For us here at meat Eater,
24:50
Speaker 2: this story hits a little too close for comfort. The
24:53
Speaker 2: crime took place just outside of Bozeman, at a fishing
24:55
Speaker 2: access many of us have been to. The perpetrator worked
24:58
Speaker 2: for the Bureau of Land Manage, an agency that's familiar
25:01
Speaker 2: to many of us and whose employees we know and
25:04
Speaker 2: interact with all the time. When we posted on Instagram
25:07
Speaker 2: that we were looking to speak with people who knew Paul,
25:09
Speaker 2: we received dozens of emails. We all run in the
25:12
Speaker 2: same circles, and so we're trying to make sense of
25:15
Speaker 2: this along with other members of our community.
25:18
Speaker 13: It just, all of a sudden just felt very central
25:22
Speaker 13: to our town, central to our communities, central to hunters
25:26
Speaker 13: and anglers that live in this area.
25:28
Speaker 2: That's me Eater founder Steve Ranella. He's the one who
25:30
Speaker 2: first told me about this case and suggested that we
25:32
Speaker 2: cover it in an episode of Blood Trails. I sat
25:35
Speaker 2: down with him to talk about why the story jumped
25:37
Speaker 2: out of him and why he felt like we had
25:39
Speaker 2: a duty to try to understand and process what happened.
25:43
Speaker 13: Me and Paul, you know, we came I came from Michigan,
25:46
Speaker 13: he came from New England. We moved to mont at
25:49
Speaker 13: the same time. We're both interested in hunting, We're both
25:52
Speaker 13: interested in fishing, We're both fur trappers, hung out in
25:55
Speaker 13: the same places. I've been to this river access a
25:57
Speaker 13: ton of times where the murder took place. There are
26:00
Speaker 13: a ton of times I know it very well. I
26:02
Speaker 13: know the town very well, and so in that way,
26:05
Speaker 13: you know, there was like an alignment, like I could
26:08
Speaker 13: easily picture the enthusiasm of an outdoorsman moving out west
26:16
Speaker 13: at that time and what that felt like. So I
26:18
Speaker 13: understood it. Even though we didn't know each other, we
26:21
Speaker 13: knew the same people. He worked for an agency where
26:25
Speaker 13: I have friends that work at the agency that I
26:28
Speaker 13: have professional collaborations with the agency. He worked on fisheries
26:34
Speaker 13: projects that it sounds so weird to say he worked
26:36
Speaker 13: on fisheries projects that I like benefited from I probably
26:39
Speaker 13: read and digested research he did. So it was like
26:43
Speaker 13: it was a very much a fishing story. It was
26:47
Speaker 13: an outdoor story. It was about a place that you know,
26:51
Speaker 13: I knew well, people I knew well, and so it
26:53
Speaker 13: felt to me like very like we had every right
26:58
Speaker 13: almost that we had a obligation to talk about this story.
27:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, and hunting, I mean turned out to be a
27:04
Speaker 2: really big part of the story that I don't think
27:06
Speaker 2: a lot of other outlets really touched on his travel
27:09
Speaker 2: for hunting and the concern that that, you know, brought
27:12
Speaker 2: to mind for investigators. He's out there in the woods
27:15
Speaker 2: a lot alone in remote areas in other states. You
27:20
Speaker 2: mentioned the fishing access site. Could you describe that site.
27:23
Speaker 3: A little bit? We didn't.
27:24
Speaker 2: We didn't get into that a lot in the podcast.
27:28
Speaker 2: I mean, for me, it's a little surprising because this
27:30
Speaker 2: happened apparently around like noon, like maybe late morning, early afternoon,
27:35
Speaker 2: and if you're not from there or you've never been there,
27:38
Speaker 2: I think it's maybe unusual or surprising that that could
27:42
Speaker 2: have happened in the middle of the day. Presumably there
27:44
Speaker 2: was there was noise, there was screaming. Could you just
27:47
Speaker 2: sort of paint a picture of what that area is like.
27:50
Speaker 13: Yeah, First off, point out that that area, like most
27:54
Speaker 13: areas in the Gallton Valley area, has changed tremendously over
27:58
Speaker 13: the years. I would have first been at that access
28:02
Speaker 13: site around the same time, you know, I would have
28:04
Speaker 13: started hanging out there. I moved to Bozeman in the
28:07
Speaker 13: year two thousand. I was living in Missoula starting in
28:10
Speaker 13: nineteen ninety six. But you know, there's quite a number
28:13
Speaker 13: of river access sites they're in. They tend to be
28:17
Speaker 13: around here in these big valley bottoms, you know, braided
28:20
Speaker 13: river channels.
28:21
Speaker 3: Lots of cottonwood, lots of brush.
28:24
Speaker 13: So even though they are around habitations, they might be
28:28
Speaker 13: very close to busy roads, there's still a lot of
28:29
Speaker 13: solitude around them. The other thing about river access sites
28:32
Speaker 13: is Montana has great stream access law, So as long
28:36
Speaker 13: as you can access the river legally, you can go
28:38
Speaker 13: anywhere as long as you stay within the high water mark.
28:41
Speaker 13: So one of the great draws of river access sites
28:44
Speaker 13: is it gives you a legal point of entry into
28:45
Speaker 13: a river and then you can wade up and down
28:47
Speaker 13: wherever you want to go. If you pull into a
28:49
Speaker 13: river access site and you see a half dozen cars there,
28:52
Speaker 13: you might then use that river access site and go
28:54
Speaker 13: fish for an hour, not run into the people, because
28:57
Speaker 13: people disperse round there's a lot of you know, there's
28:59
Speaker 13: privacy in solitude to be had there. And even though
29:02
Speaker 13: it is near town, it's closer to Belgrade, Montana than
29:06
Speaker 13: Bozeman proper. It's totally plausible that midday a couple of
29:12
Speaker 13: people could be there and you could have a crime
29:14
Speaker 13: like this play out over fifteen minutes or twenty minutes
29:17
Speaker 13: or even an hour and have no witnesses to it,
29:19
Speaker 13: even though you probably listening to cars driving by on
29:22
Speaker 13: the bridge, And that would still be true today of
29:24
Speaker 13: most of the river access sites around here.
29:26
Speaker 3: There's no part of that that's surprising at all.
29:29
Speaker 2: As someone who you know, you go out, but you
29:32
Speaker 2: also go out with your family, with your wife and
29:34
Speaker 2: your kids. How do you deal with that possibility of
29:39
Speaker 2: someone being out there who doesn't have a criminal record,
29:43
Speaker 2: isn't a wanted killer, right, just stumbling upon the wrong
29:46
Speaker 2: person at the wrong time, with those vulnerable people that
29:50
Speaker 2: you might be with.
29:51
Speaker 13: Man, even knowing this, it's not a thing we pay
29:55
Speaker 13: attention to as parents. We talk a lot about water safety.
29:58
Speaker 13: We taught our kids a swim a young age. We
30:01
Speaker 13: kind of brush up now and then in certain areas.
30:04
Speaker 13: We brush up now and then on the best protocol
30:06
Speaker 13: around in Grizzly Bear country. Spatial awareness, taking no to landmarks,
30:12
Speaker 13: to understand where you're at, paying attention.
30:14
Speaker 3: To what's going on.
30:14
Speaker 13: But we never ever talk about being attacked by a
30:20
Speaker 13: human being. And I have a lot of people who
30:24
Speaker 13: live with kids and raise families around here, and I'm
30:28
Speaker 13: telling you, in any conversations I have, it doesn't come up. Yeah,
30:30
Speaker 13: it doesn't come up.
30:32
Speaker 5: Yeah.
30:32
Speaker 13: You know, people might joke right like, oh, you know,
30:36
Speaker 13: a guy in a van by the river kind of joke.
30:38
Speaker 13: But no, no, I would say in this community, like,
30:43
Speaker 13: being attacked by a human being is not a thing
30:46
Speaker 13: that takes up a lot of psychological space.
30:49
Speaker 3: But that's again, that's for me.
30:52
Speaker 13: If you're if I was a woman in my teens
30:56
Speaker 13: or twenties hanging out and I like to go to
30:58
Speaker 13: river access sites by myself off the fish. To be
31:01
Speaker 13: honest with you, like I can't get in. I don't
31:03
Speaker 13: know what that experience is like, but I would think
31:05
Speaker 13: that you'd get a very different answer from them.
31:07
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I'm sure everyone in the Belgrade area was
31:10
Speaker 2: terrified in the months and years after this happened. I mean,
31:13
Speaker 2: a girl was murdered, they didn't find the killer. Is
31:16
Speaker 2: he still out there? Will he do this again? Is
31:17
Speaker 2: it safe to be outside by yourself? It's funny to
31:21
Speaker 2: terrorize the public and then go work for an agency
31:24
Speaker 2: that's supposed to help facilitate outdoor recreation. You know, it's
31:29
Speaker 2: more than a little ironic. I want to transition from
31:33
Speaker 2: the story itself to a little inside baseball on how
31:36
Speaker 2: we reported this case. One of the reasons we were
31:39
Speaker 2: able to connect with so many people who knew Paul
31:42
Speaker 2: is because you posted about it on your Instagram. Both
31:45
Speaker 2: of us had the opportunity to speak with a lot
31:47
Speaker 2: of people, many of whom eventually decided they didn't want
31:51
Speaker 2: to participate. What was your experience like speaking with some
31:56
Speaker 2: of those individuals.
31:58
Speaker 13: Right when I graduated from high school, I had jury
32:01
Speaker 13: duty in Mousketon County, Michigan, and I remember it was
32:06
Speaker 13: a drug trial with a crack cocaine dealer and we
32:11
Speaker 13: came back with a guilty verdict, And at that time,
32:13
Speaker 13: that was a life sentence for the guy, and they
32:17
Speaker 13: hauled the defendant away and the judge, I remember.
32:21
Speaker 3: The guy's name was Mike Cobbs. Judge Mike Cobbs.
32:25
Speaker 13: He asked all of us jurors to stay, and he
32:29
Speaker 13: said he wanted to speak with us. And then he
32:31
Speaker 13: went and told us all these all the non admissible evidence,
32:36
Speaker 13: so all the things they couldn't bring up in trial
32:38
Speaker 13: because of double jeopardy, just that this whole bunch of
32:42
Speaker 13: sordid details about the defendant. His point was, if you
32:45
Speaker 13: ever feel bad about what you did sending him to jail,
32:49
Speaker 13: I want you to consider these things. I want you
32:51
Speaker 13: to know the truth of these things that we couldn't
32:53
Speaker 13: present in the trial. And I thought about that often
32:56
Speaker 13: when we were looking at this story here, because man
33:01
Speaker 13: Jordan talked to I talked to a number of people
33:05
Speaker 13: who knew Paul who didn't want us to share any information.
33:10
Speaker 13: People would decline to speak, and oftentimes people would speak
33:13
Speaker 13: and then tell you all these details but say, but
33:15
Speaker 13: I don't want you to share that, like they don't
33:17
Speaker 13: want investigators to know, they don't want the family to know.
33:21
Speaker 3: Whatever.
33:21
Speaker 13: They would tell you to clear their conscious of things.
33:25
Speaker 13: But then say you couldn't share it, and then putting
33:27
Speaker 13: a project like this together, it gets frustrating because there
33:31
Speaker 13: are details that we know about Paul that would illuminate
33:36
Speaker 13: this or shed light on this we're not able to
33:38
Speaker 13: put out there. That's frustrating. You know, you want to
33:41
Speaker 13: be like the judge who just is able to lay
33:43
Speaker 13: it all out, but you're prevented to out of needing
33:46
Speaker 13: to honor anonymity.
33:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, in a trial, they have rules about what's admissible,
33:51
Speaker 2: what's not admissible, what can they talk about, what can
33:53
Speaker 2: they not And when you're reporting a story, you also
33:57
Speaker 2: have rules. If people say something to you and then
34:01
Speaker 2: say I don't want you to report that, and then
34:03
Speaker 2: you go and report it, you know, there can be
34:05
Speaker 2: some pretty negative consequences. So we have to abide by
34:09
Speaker 2: some of those rules, and sometimes it can be a
34:11
Speaker 2: little frustrating. And you know, some of the people, like
34:14
Speaker 2: you heard, you know you've heard in the episode, they
34:17
Speaker 2: wanted to talk to us, but only anonymously. And sometimes
34:21
Speaker 2: it sort of makes sense, like the they work in
34:24
Speaker 2: a similar field, they worry about professional repercussions. Some people,
34:28
Speaker 2: it seemed like, just didn't want their name associated with
34:32
Speaker 2: this at all. Some people's reasons are a bit more selfish,
34:35
Speaker 2: I think, and we also ran into that.
34:38
Speaker 3: As we explored the story.
34:39
Speaker 13: One of the things I kept coming back to again
34:42
Speaker 13: and again in my mind, this individual Paul, he loved
34:46
Speaker 13: a lot of the things I love. I love to
34:48
Speaker 13: hunt turkeys. Here's this guy, he loved to hunt turkeys.
34:52
Speaker 13: I like trap and he liked trapping. I love to
34:55
Speaker 13: hunt man. I like listening to El Bugle. I like
34:57
Speaker 13: all this right and too. But I always wonder, even
35:02
Speaker 13: though I understand the joy of those things, I kept wondering, like,
35:04
Speaker 13: how could someone ever find or retain joy in those
35:09
Speaker 13: things knowing what they had done after he'd done it,
35:14
Speaker 13: having done what he did, after he did it, the
35:16
Speaker 13: only suitable thing to do is what he ultimately did,
35:19
Speaker 13: which was to kill himself. But the fact that you
35:23
Speaker 13: could live all those years.
35:25
Speaker 3: And like.
35:26
Speaker 13: Take pictures of yourself hunting turkeys and enjoy that kind
35:29
Speaker 13: of stuff, Like, how like what kind of depravity is
35:32
Speaker 13: in somebody that they could find joy in anything in
35:38
Speaker 13: life knowing that you had just out of some kind
35:44
Speaker 13: of blind rage or blind lust, like killed a teenage
35:48
Speaker 13: girl and walked away from her dead body it's it's
35:53
Speaker 13: like such an obvious thing to wonder, but I kept warning, like,
35:55
Speaker 13: what is in a person that they can then enjoy
35:59
Speaker 13: their life?
36:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, and not just want to end it?
36:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, or enjoy their kids have kids that are about
36:09
Speaker 2: that age. And that's one of the things that the
36:12
Speaker 2: investigators in their interview with Paul really kind of hammered
36:16
Speaker 2: him on that you have a daughter, right, how would
36:20
Speaker 2: you feel if this happened to her? And I don't
36:23
Speaker 2: know if that's what drove him to do what he did,
36:25
Speaker 2: but it's hard to imagine that didn't have any effect.
36:29
Speaker 2: But as you say, he lived his whole life with that.
36:34
Speaker 2: I don't you know, why would it have an effect?
36:36
Speaker 9: Right?
36:36
Speaker 5: Then?
36:37
Speaker 3: Who knows?
36:38
Speaker 5: No?
36:40
Speaker 3: Who knows?
36:41
Speaker 2: It seems fitting to end this episode with a question.
36:45
Speaker 2: This case brought much needed closure to the Houchin's family.
36:48
Speaker 2: They finally figured out who killed their daughter and sister,
36:51
Speaker 2: and the killer was, in some measure brought to justice.
36:56
Speaker 2: But we'll never know why Paul did what he did
36:59
Speaker 2: or what he was thinking and feeling in the years
37:01
Speaker 2: after he murdered Danny. We can't get inside his head,
37:04
Speaker 2: not that we'd really want to, but the person he
37:07
Speaker 2: presented to the world was inconsistent. Some people we spoke
37:12
Speaker 2: with said they weren't surprised, they knew there was something
37:15
Speaker 2: off about that guy. Others really liked him and said
37:18
Speaker 2: they were shocked by what he'd done. But it's this
37:21
Speaker 2: inconsistency that makes him ordinary, and in that way all
37:27
Speaker 2: the more terrifying.
37:29
Speaker 3: He wasn't a villain from a superhero movie.
37:31
Speaker 2: With an evil laugh and an evil eye. And he
37:34
Speaker 2: wasn't a genius con man who fooled everyone with his
37:37
Speaker 2: charming smile and winning ways. He was just a dude,
37:42
Speaker 2: a dude he might meet at the store or your
37:44
Speaker 2: kid's soccer game, strike up a friendship, and go hunting with.
37:48
Speaker 3: We can't suspect everyone.
37:49
Speaker 2: We don't know of horrible crimes, but Paul's story is
37:53
Speaker 2: a reminder that you never really know what kind of
37:57
Speaker 2: monster might be lurking just below the surface.
38:00
Speaker 3: Yes, thanks for listening to this episode of Blood Trails.
38:13
Speaker 2: If you'd like to see images related to this case,
38:16
Speaker 2: including images of Danny and hunting photos of Paul, head
38:19
Speaker 2: over to the meeater dot com slash blood Trails and
38:22
Speaker 2: click on the case file for this episode. If you
38:25
Speaker 2: have a tip, about this case or another case you
38:27
Speaker 2: think we should cover. Send us an email at blood
38:30
Speaker 2: Trails at the meeteater dot com. That's b l o
38:33
Speaker 2: O D t R a I L S at the
38:36
Speaker 2: meeater dot com. See you next time, and stay safe
38:41
Speaker 2: out there.