Latest / The TalkBlock Show's Podcast / Money, Purpose, and the Art of Living Well. With. Kirana Sidin

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Money, Purpose, and the Art of Living Well. With. Kirana Sidin · The TalkBlock Show's Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_07: Uh my journey through this, uh the one that I do right now.
0:06
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it started with my youngest child calling me jumpers.
0:10
SPEAKER_07: Cheers what a good life means.
0:12
SPEAKER_07: We already live in it.
0:14
SPEAKER_07: Okay, we're trying to build the uh a good life.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: What is the actual relationship between money and the good life?
0:23
SPEAKER_07: Okay, okay.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:24
SPEAKER_07: This is very interesting question.
0:26
SPEAKER_07: Thank you so much for bringing us into this table.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: Hey, welcome back to the show.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: Today we're exploring a question that sounds simple on the surface but takes a lifetime to unpack.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: What does it actually mean to live a good life?
0:50
SPEAKER_01: My guest today is uh Kirana Siddin.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: She is an author, strategic life coach, and the voice behind the book Cheers for a good life.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: But her path into this work didn't start in an executive boardroom or a fancy seminar.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: It started at home with a quiet wake-up call from her youngest child.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: Kirana, welcome to the show.
1:20
SPEAKER_07: Hi everyone.
1:21
SPEAKER_07: Hi Vadeem.
1:23
SPEAKER_07: Thank you so much for having me.
1:25
SPEAKER_07: Uh I can't wait to have the meaningful conversation in your podcast.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: Okay, we can uh start right now and uh first uh question uh Kirana you um shared that uh your transition into this uh work was uh triggered when your youngest child called you uh jobless, right?
1:47
SPEAKER_07: Yes, yes, yes, that's correct.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: Take us can you take us back to that moment?
1:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh what did this what did the trigger inside of you?
1:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay, and how did it move you from just uh drifting through a comfortable life to intentional living?
2:07
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, okay.
2:08
SPEAKER_07: Thank you so much for your uh thoughtful question.
2:10
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, this is something that I want to yeah, tell because this is feels so natural and daily.
2:17
SPEAKER_07: Uh yes.
2:17
SPEAKER_07: So my journey through this uh the one that I do right now, yeah, it started with my youngest child calling me jobless.
2:29
SPEAKER_07: So one uh one day in the yes, in the dinner, yeah, suddenly in the middle of dinner, we were getting as a family doing dinner, and then suddenly, mom, you're so jobless.
2:39
SPEAKER_07: Okay, like okay.
2:41
SPEAKER_07: And then we laugh, yeah.
2:42
SPEAKER_07: We're laughing, of course, together we laugh.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: But uh the comments I ask you how many, how many kids how many kids do you have?
2:49
SPEAKER_07: I have five kids, Fedim.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: Five?
2:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and this is the youngest one.
2:54
SPEAKER_07: This is the youngest one.
2:55
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, he's a boy, and probably he's only like seven years old at the time.
3:00
SPEAKER_07: Okay and then suddenly, yeah, uh, yep, uh yeah, but I know that he is very critic criticism as uh person, even though he is still young, yeah.
3:08
SPEAKER_07: But yeah, and then suddenly he told me that, mom, you're so jobless.
3:12
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, probably because he uh didn't see me like going to office like 9 to 5, correct?
3:18
SPEAKER_07: And then probably he just saw me a stay at home, uh, but uh probably he don't know what I'm doing, probably even though that at the time I'm I'm helping with my husband work, yeah, but yeah, still yeah, he he d he didn't know about it.
3:33
SPEAKER_07: So yes, but uh he uh I think even though it's brutal, yeah, it's come it's brutal from the seven years old kid, yeah.
3:42
SPEAKER_07: I agree.
3:43
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, but it's honest too.
3:45
SPEAKER_07: Okay.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: It's always honest from from kid, it's always like so cute and honest, right?
3:50
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, it's honest.
3:51
SPEAKER_07: And then he got the point.
3:53
SPEAKER_07: He got the point because even yeah, yeah, uh what what what uh why I'm saying he got the point.
3:59
SPEAKER_07: Because even though I feel that my life genuinely happy at that time, yeah, I'm I'm not treated, I'm I don't want to pretend I'm not happy and that I'm happy.
4:09
SPEAKER_07: But the truth is uh I do not uh really truly build what's mine.
4:16
SPEAKER_07: The life that truly mine at that time.
4:18
SPEAKER_07: So we can say that where uh I'm I'm I'm a little bit drifting, probably not a little bit, yeah.
4:24
SPEAKER_07: I'm drifting, yeah, if I want to be honest.
4:27
SPEAKER_07: I'm drifting for myself.
4:28
SPEAKER_07: And then that harmful comment from my son is just like a walk wake up call to me, okay?
4:34
SPEAKER_07: Wake up.
4:35
SPEAKER_07: Yes, wake up call that yeah, he got the point.
4:38
SPEAKER_07: This is uh instead of I instead of I just stay there, yeah, doing nothing with the comment, and then I try to reflect again, yeah, what caused me like this, okay, what caused me like this.
4:51
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that is not that's not a mistake, it's just like a phase of my life, okay, that I have to focus first with my family, okay.
4:59
SPEAKER_07: I have to focus first with my uh with uh with my role as a mom, as a wife, okay.
5:04
SPEAKER_07: That's that's I'm not I don't yeah, I don't want to like uh blaming it to someone or to a situation.
5:10
SPEAKER_07: No, the one that I have to blame is me.
5:13
SPEAKER_07: Uh if I want to say that, okay.
5:16
SPEAKER_07: Okay, so I do not like, yeah, because I do not like look deeper to myself at that time, okay.
5:22
SPEAKER_07: So when my son uh told me that, yeah, I have to dig deeper again, I have to reflect.
5:29
SPEAKER_07: And then I started small.
5:31
SPEAKER_07: I started small.
5:32
SPEAKER_07: I I'm I started with uh one thing that I really love, yeah.
5:37
SPEAKER_07: Actually, since the elementary school and then junior school, high school, and then uh and so on.
5:42
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it starts with a reading, okay?
5:45
SPEAKER_07: I love reading, yeah.
5:46
SPEAKER_07: And then bec uh and then uh because of reading, I try to read every day one hour every morning after the kids has gone to school, after uh the the breakfast already done, after I pack the lunch book for my kids, and then I sit, yeah, we I sit with my book and a cup of coffee met by met by my husband, and then I read.
6:14
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
6:15
SPEAKER_07: Just me, my coffee and tons of books.
6:18
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
6:20
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, one hour a day.
6:22
SPEAKER_07: I try to always come back to that tiny daily habit.
6:26
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, home.
6:27
SPEAKER_07: Even though sometimes, yeah, in the uh in the other day, I feel like, ah my god, I'm so, you know, I don't want to do this.
6:35
SPEAKER_07: I don't want to do this, like this is so ex-house thing, you know.
6:38
SPEAKER_07: It's like kind of feeling, you know, like yeah, feeling like that.
6:41
SPEAKER_07: I don't wanna do this.
6:42
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, maybe I I can't I just want to go go tomorrow's go just go having coffee in the cafe with my friend, okay, and then like probably I just want to watch Netflix, but yeah, I still come back.
6:54
SPEAKER_07: There's like not a single day that yeah.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: And and how did that simple daily habit evolve in hundreds of blog posts and eventually a full framework for pretty much for a living?
7:07
SPEAKER_07: Okay, okay.
7:07
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, because of the reading.
7:10
SPEAKER_07: Yes, yes.
7:10
SPEAKER_07: Because of the reading, I I have uh time to reflect more, to us uh to examine my assumption to something, okay, to uh shape the way I think.
7:23
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, because the reading of the book, the book that I read, yeah, it's like uh a niche.
7:28
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I always read like nonfiction, uh self-help or personal growth or business or um philosophy, something like that.
7:36
SPEAKER_07: I do not like at the time I do not choose uh fiction because yeah I've done enough.
7:41
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I've done enough with that uh fiction book when I'm still elementary, junior high school, uh high school, or uh in the college, yeah, I've done enough.
7:49
SPEAKER_07: But yeah, and then I I have to be uh specific, yeah, to uh to to find the book that really improves myself.
7:58
SPEAKER_07: Okay, so I choose that genre, uh nonfiction, self-hair, personal growth, business, yeah, what like that.
8:04
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, so by because of that reading, yeah, because of that reading, I feel like I can more uh reflect again to my assumption, to my question of life, to uh yeah, to so that the reading really shape of what I think about something, and then it's eventually, yeah, it's eventually uh become the way of thinking about a good life, intentionally.
8:32
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that's that's the that's the idea about why yeah, the reading, yeah, only one hour a day uh makes me like like like the way I am today.
8:43
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that's it.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, today, yeah.
8:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and um yeah, um on your on your website I've seen uh sample of your book.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: I I read a little bit and um a quick question from uh about your book from your book.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: Um in your book uh introduction you mentioned uh making a deliberate choice uh to name it Cheers for a good life rather than Cheers to a good life.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh why was that uh single word for um so important to you and uh what does it change about how we how we view our daily lives?
9:21
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: Why I agree for, yeah.
9:24
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I understand.
9:25
SPEAKER_07: Uh I understand your question.
9:26
SPEAKER_07: It's like something cheers to a good life or cheers for a good life, okay, like four or two, yeah.
9:30
SPEAKER_07: So yeah.
9:31
SPEAKER_07: But uh yeah, I want to emphasize that cheers for a good life means uh we already live in it.
9:38
SPEAKER_07: Okay, we're trying to build the a a good life.
9:42
SPEAKER_07: That a life that we want to build instead of just want to achieve, you know, like instead of we want to uh lie yeah, to toast uh over the life that we want to achieve a good life, but eventually for is like we're already living it, okay?
9:57
SPEAKER_07: We're like now, now we are building a good life.
10:01
SPEAKER_07: That's yeah, so we're building instead of chasing, chasing, and yeah, yeah, the yeah, instead uh we're already in it uh by choosing only a small daily habit or probably a daily choice or daily tiny decision.
10:16
SPEAKER_07: You you probably you don't know, like you you are not sure, or maybe you are not like okay, uh uh oh, so this this is how I build a good life.
10:26
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, you maybe probably you uh yeah, yeah, you don't know for sure.
10:30
SPEAKER_07: But yeah, that's that's uh the way you build a good life.
10:34
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, right.
10:35
SPEAKER_07: That's Vadim, yeah.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I understood.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh also we often confuse being happy in a single moment with uh actually having a good good life.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh how do you define the ancient uh Greek concept of um what it calls e-euda?
10:55
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, eudaimonia.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh why can someone have a good life even on days when they um feel sad or face like setbacks?
11:05
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
11:06
SPEAKER_07: Okay.
11:06
SPEAKER_07: Fadim, uh, can I ask you a simple question?
11:09
SPEAKER_07: This is a very simple question.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.
11:12
SPEAKER_07: Okay.
11:13
SPEAKER_07: Okay, if you have to choose, yeah, if you have you have to choose uh which one you should you choose, yeah.
11:18
SPEAKER_07: Loving in a bicycle or crying in a luxury car.
11:24
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I heard the question before.
11:28
SPEAKER_07: Because yeah, yeah, it isn't like uh intermediate like bridge.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: You see you see this in the reel, right?
11:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh probably be happy on the bicycle, I don't know.
11:40
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:41
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I've I've seen this.
11:42
SPEAKER_07: You probably you you already seen it in the Instagram reels, yeah, showing that footage of yeah, yeah, you know, like this, this kind of uh question.
11:51
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, this is interesting for me, yeah, because uh, and then you know the majority will answer uh loving in the luxury car.
12:00
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it's clever, right?
12:01
SPEAKER_07: Because there is no there's no option of loving in a luxury car.
12:06
SPEAKER_07: The ops the only option is crying in a bicycle or laughing in uh loving in the bicycle or crying in the luxury car.
12:15
SPEAKER_07: But yeah, majority answer loving in the luxury car.
12:19
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it's clever, right?
12:21
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, it's clever.
12:22
SPEAKER_07: So what does it mean?
12:23
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it yeah, it does make sense.
12:24
SPEAKER_07: It does make sense.
12:25
SPEAKER_07: Who don't want to get uh uh happiness and and then also luxury car in the same time, right?
12:31
SPEAKER_07: So yeah.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: So basically or cry from happiness, it's also happy.
12:35
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're correct.
12:38
SPEAKER_07: So basically, it tells us something, Vadim.
12:41
SPEAKER_07: Like uh loving means happiness, correct?
12:43
SPEAKER_07: And then luxury car, yeah, probably, yeah.
12:46
SPEAKER_07: People will assume, people will assume that it's like happy too.
12:50
SPEAKER_07: But here's the point uh happiness is not the same a good life, yeah.
12:55
SPEAKER_07: It's not the same as a good life.
12:56
SPEAKER_07: Happiness is just a temporary moment, you know.
13:00
SPEAKER_07: Uh say say like this, yeah, say like this.
13:02
SPEAKER_07: Uh we we meet our friend, yeah, uh long lost, a long last friend.
13:07
SPEAKER_07: Okay, we we haven't seen them for years for decades, and suddenly we bump into into him or into her uh in the street, and then oh my god, how are you?
13:18
SPEAKER_07: And then we agree to have a chit-chat uh and then in the our in the our favourite cave.
13:23
SPEAKER_07: And then uh yeah, and then we we we we we we feel truly happy at the time, of course, and then but if if we fail to manage uh to maintain the friendship again and then eventually lose him or her again, yeah, the the happiness will fade, correct?
13:41
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, but yeah, that's happiness.
13:44
SPEAKER_07: So it's a only temporary feeling, not a permanent feeling.
13:49
SPEAKER_07: It's uh it's different, yeah.
13:51
SPEAKER_07: It's different from a good life, yeah.
13:53
SPEAKER_07: Well, and then the Greek, the Greek words, uh the Greek has words for this, yeah.
13:57
SPEAKER_07: You uh the one that you said before, it's eudemonia, okay?
14:01
SPEAKER_07: It means like human flourishing, okay?
14:04
SPEAKER_07: It's it it is more like uh people people call it happiness, but it's not the same, yeah.
14:10
SPEAKER_07: It's not the same.
14:11
SPEAKER_07: It's more like a life uh flour.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: It's like a lifelong state of deep well-being.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure, yeah.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: It's like personal growth, yeah.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a morally good life, yeah.
14:23
SPEAKER_07: Yes, it's a whole quality of life, you know?
14:25
SPEAKER_07: It's a whole quality of life.
14:27
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, the you knowing that, knowing that you're building the life or you just you're following the life, what truly yours, okay?
14:35
SPEAKER_07: What truly matters for you?
14:37
SPEAKER_07: What uh the life that uh aligns with all your value, that's a good life.
14:43
SPEAKER_07: So even though, yeah, probably we feel sad, okay?
14:47
SPEAKER_07: Even though we're like aggrieving into something, probably we're losing someone uh that we love, or probably we're like losing our job, or or anything, yeah.
14:57
SPEAKER_07: Anything that will feel us make more like, yeah, feel feel sad or grieving or anything.
15:02
SPEAKER_07: But knowing that knowing that we live the life that truly uh we choose that life over the other thing, it's still a good life, okay?
15:15
SPEAKER_07: And then the feeling, yeah, the feel more more calm.
15:19
SPEAKER_07: We we we we can feel like we're more calming to to uh to live the life that we built, okay?
15:26
SPEAKER_07: Because knowing that it's aligned with our value, it's the life that we want to build, it's like the life yeah that's truly important for us and truly matters.
15:35
SPEAKER_07: That's the distinction uh between a happiness and a good life.
15:40
SPEAKER_07: Uh uh uh best best with the odomania, the Greek words.
15:46
SPEAKER_07: Yes, yeah.
15:47
SPEAKER_07: That's what yeah, yeah.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you, thank you.
15:50
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yes, yeah.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: Also, uh in your book, you uh sharing with readers that terrifying story about flight from Kuala Lumpur, I guess it was.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh where the plane suddenly dropped, making you face your own mortality in real time.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: So, how did that uh near-death experience uh change how you practice uh that uh momentum worry and say no to non-essential things on an ordinary on ordinary Tuesday morning, let's say.
16:24
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
16:24
SPEAKER_07: First I want to say thank you, Fadim.
16:26
SPEAKER_07: You really read my book.
16:28
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, thank you so much.
16:29
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, like in the first chapter.
16:32
SPEAKER_07: Remember that you will Yeah, thank you so much to pay attention for it.
16:35
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that's from the uh first chapter.
16:38
SPEAKER_07: If I'm not uh if I'm not wrong, remember that you will die.
16:41
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
16:41
SPEAKER_07: So uh that that very instant instant experience is only last maybe not not until five minutes.
16:51
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I forgot.
16:52
SPEAKER_07: But yeah, you know, before that accident, I always assume that because of I already living a good life, I I always like uh obey my God's uh order, and then I I try to live the life that yeah feels so you know uh good, yeah, good, yeah, for for me or for the others, yeah.
17:16
SPEAKER_07: And then uh, you know, like uh it's arrogant it's like an arrogant arrogant arrogant assumption that the death is still far away from me, you know?
17:28
SPEAKER_07: Something like that, yeah, something like that.
17:30
SPEAKER_07: This is an arrogant assumption because of that.
17:33
SPEAKER_07: Okay, so so when so when the experience came to me, and then it feels like very uh that near experience for me because it's very you know like the the cr the the turbulence is so real.
17:50
SPEAKER_07: It's like yeah, yeah, you know something uh uh hopefully you you you you had don't have to experience that.
17:59
SPEAKER_07: No, I don't want to you don't experience that.
18:02
SPEAKER_07: But yeah, but that that kind of experience uh yeah uh make me like truly reflect, yeah.
18:10
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, remember that you will die.
18:11
SPEAKER_07: Memento mori, yeah.
18:13
SPEAKER_07: The the great the great words about it say, Memento mori, remember that you will die.
18:18
SPEAKER_07: And then because of that, yeah, because of that experience, uh I feel that yeah, our time is limited indeed.
18:27
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, our time is very limited in this world.
18:30
SPEAKER_07: So we don't we don't know when we have uh we when uh our God is calling us to be with Him.
18:39
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, nobody knows, right?
18:41
SPEAKER_07: Because I uh before that experience, yeah, I feel like uh this the the death is so very very uh far away from me.
18:48
SPEAKER_07: This is not time.
18:50
SPEAKER_07: But yeah, that really that experience really taught me something.
18:54
SPEAKER_07: Yes, re we have to remember that we will die.
18:57
SPEAKER_07: Memento mori.
18:58
SPEAKER_07: So uh uh not not started not started from that experience.
19:04
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I already tried to start it before yeah I try to uh do my uh living my life like more intentional, okay?
19:12
SPEAKER_07: Oh yeah, what kind of life that I want really to build, okay?
19:16
SPEAKER_07: Uh how do I like push my attention to what kind of person, yeah, to what kind of time, to what kind of occasion.
19:26
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, so uh so based on that experience, I try to really be intentional of what I'm choosing every day.
19:34
SPEAKER_07: Okay, I'm not saying that I'm overthinking overthink about about it, yeah.
19:39
SPEAKER_07: No, but yeah, but I have to really pay attention, pose for a while, and choose something that really aligns with my value, and then also yeah, something that I consciously choose, not just by default, okay?
19:54
SPEAKER_07: Not just but not just by uh other expectation or not just like this is probably this is good for the others.
20:02
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, if I choose this.
20:03
SPEAKER_07: No, no, I don't want to choose something like this.
20:05
SPEAKER_07: I have to choose what uh truly mine and also yeah, what truly matters for me.
20:11
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that's yeah, so that experience tells me a lot.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for such comprehensive explanation.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: Nice, nice, good.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh so the next question.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, so we live in a culture that uh constantly demands more, like more output, more income, more achievements.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh, how do you use the philosophy of stoicism to figure out what enough actually looks like?
20:43
SPEAKER_01: Where is that uh red line where it's enough?
20:46
SPEAKER_01: Like how do you manage that?
20:49
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
20:50
SPEAKER_07: When I say when I have to say enough means that I don't want to choose something that over my capacity, okay?
21:00
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, over my more not not aligned with my value, yeah.
21:08
SPEAKER_07: And then like this is not matters to me, this is not important to me, and this is also not get the benefit, yeah, from me.
21:15
SPEAKER_07: And so like uh this is not bring benefit to the to the others, the to the person that I love too.
21:21
SPEAKER_07: So uh I have to say that this is enough, yeah.
21:25
SPEAKER_07: If if if if I think that okay, this is the limitation, yeah.
21:31
SPEAKER_07: This is the limitation that I have to bring to my life, uh because because this is not like uh uh like uh you know, this is more like uh truly matters for me.
21:46
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, this is the limitation.
21:48
SPEAKER_07: But if if it's not aligned with all the focus or the value, I will let it slide.
21:56
SPEAKER_07: No, that is not that is not mine.
22:00
SPEAKER_07: I just simply say that is not mine, okay?
22:03
SPEAKER_07: Even though probably it's it feels like temptation tempt tempting, okay?
22:08
SPEAKER_07: Probably because even though it feels like I think it's good.
22:12
SPEAKER_07: I think it's good.
22:13
SPEAKER_07: But once again, yeah, if if if it's not like no, I think this is not mine.
22:21
SPEAKER_07: No, I think this is not matters to me.
22:23
SPEAKER_07: I think this is not important to me.
22:25
SPEAKER_07: I think this is not will not there is not a lot of things.
22:28
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, this is nothing not essential.
22:30
SPEAKER_07: This is not uh something that will bring benefit for me or for the others that I love.
22:35
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
22:36
SPEAKER_07: I will let it slide.
22:37
SPEAKER_07: So okay, this is enough.
22:38
SPEAKER_07: No need again.
22:39
SPEAKER_07: Ah that that's the that's the the the practice that I try to build uh to say that this is enough or not.
22:50
SPEAKER_02: Sounds good.
22:50
SPEAKER_02: Sounds good.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I actually agree with this.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so before getting something or buying, or you you have to kinda have this a few questions.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: Do I need it?
23:04
SPEAKER_01: Can I live without it or something like that, right?
23:07
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:08
SPEAKER_07: I agree, I agree, yes.
23:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: So also I um uh decided to uh name this uh episode uh uh Money, Purpose and the Art of Living Well.
23:20
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: The name I decided to give it.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: And in modern society, money is usually pushed as the ultimate scoreboard.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: What is the actual relationship between money and a good life?
23:36
SPEAKER_07: Okay, okay.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:37
SPEAKER_07: This is a very interesting question.
23:38
SPEAKER_07: Thank you so much for bringing us into this table.
23:42
SPEAKER_07: Okay, because money is something that, yeah, I really like to write also in my book, also there's so many about money.
23:49
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, I definitely see something that I like to talk about also.
23:53
SPEAKER_07: Like, yeah, this is, I think, uh the misunderstood about money uh in this uh daily uh in this modern life.
24:03
SPEAKER_07: I think money is one of the most misunderstood pieces of this whole conversation about a good life.
24:09
SPEAKER_07: Mostly because we've been taught to think about it as either everything or nothing.
24:16
SPEAKER_07: Okay?
24:17
SPEAKER_07: Like either it's the thing that will finally fix everything once we have enough of it, or it dismisses entirely.
24:27
SPEAKER_07: Money doesn't buy happiness, you know that that phrase, okay?
24:30
SPEAKER_07: That exactly as if it doesn't matter at all.
24:33
SPEAKER_07: But yeah, the truth is it's matter, okay?
24:36
SPEAKER_07: So but but of those are wrong, and I think the honest answer is more specific than either, okay?
24:43
SPEAKER_07: Money is real, okay?
24:45
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it's real.
24:46
SPEAKER_07: You can't say that, we cannot pretend it's not real, yeah, okay.
24:49
SPEAKER_07: It removes real problems, correct?
24:51
SPEAKER_07: You know, in this life, okay?
24:53
SPEAKER_07: It buys it buys us time.
24:55
SPEAKER_07: The ability to walk away from something that isn't working.
25:00
SPEAKER_07: The ability to say no without it costing us our our rent, okay?
25:06
SPEAKER_05: Right.
25:06
SPEAKER_07: And then I'm not going to sit here and pretend that's not none of them is true, okay?
25:12
SPEAKER_07: Because pretending doesn't because pretending money doesn't matter is its own kind of uh uh wait wait.
25:23
SPEAKER_05: How do I I think like yeah?
25:28
SPEAKER_07: Okay.
25:29
SPEAKER_07: I'm not going to sit here and pretend that's not true because like uh does if if people like pretending money isn't on kind of dishonest uh pretending money doesn't matter, yeah.
25:39
SPEAKER_07: It's on kind of dishonesty, okay?
25:43
SPEAKER_07: Usually usually from people who already have enough of it, okay?
25:48
SPEAKER_07: So it's like this kind of thing.
25:52
SPEAKER_07: But you have so much money, right?
25:54
SPEAKER_07: But it's like, oh, it's like enough dishonesty.
25:57
SPEAKER_07: So but what uh but where uh it gets interesting, okay?
26:01
SPEAKER_07: Money is an outcome, uh, it's not a foundation.
26:05
SPEAKER_07: It can it can fund a good life, indeed, yes.
26:08
SPEAKER_07: It it can but it can never build one a good life.
26:13
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
26:13
SPEAKER_07: What I mean uh about this, like if our self-respect depends on our bank balance, we'll never actually have self-respect, correct?
26:24
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, and then like we'll you we we only have a number that can go up or down and take our sense of work with it.
26:32
SPEAKER_07: Yes?
26:33
SPEAKER_07: And then like if our relationship, yeah, if our relationships are finance rather than felt, they're not actually uh meaningful relationship, correct?
26:45
SPEAKER_07: And then like they're like more like arrangements.
26:48
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, they're more like arrangements.
26:50
SPEAKER_07: And then if our purpose is just uh accumulating more, that's not a purpose too.
26:57
SPEAKER_07: It's like like like it's like a uh habit that never resolves, right?
27:02
SPEAKER_07: Then because there's no amount of money that satisfied a hunger that was never really about money in the first place.
27:14
SPEAKER_07: Nah, I've talked, yeah, and then I've talked to people who have plenty of it and still feel the exact disconnection I write about.
27:22
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, successful, comfortable, capable of buying almost anything they want.
27:27
SPEAKER_07: And to be honest, still quietly wondering, okay, if the life they're built is actually theirs.
27:35
SPEAKER_07: So many, see so many people like this.
27:37
SPEAKER_07: That's not a contradiction, I think.
27:39
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that's the whole point, okay?
27:42
SPEAKER_07: Money can solve, yeah, money indeed can solve money problems.
27:46
SPEAKER_07: It was never going, it was never going to solve the problem of not recognizing uh ourselves in our own life.
27:53
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
27:54
SPEAKER_07: But yeah, but that's where the more interesting question begins.
28:00
SPEAKER_07: What is what is enough for you?
28:02
SPEAKER_07: Okay, because if we define uh enough, more will more will always feel necessary, okay?
28:11
SPEAKER_07: Like what and then the next question, yeah.
28:15
SPEAKER_07: What do we actually want to be free to do?
28:19
SPEAKER_07: Okay, like because money gives us option, but options are meaningless if we don't know what we value.
28:28
SPEAKER_07: Okay, like and then the next question is like, yeah, yeah, and then like what are you willing to trade for more of it?
28:38
SPEAKER_07: Okay, like because uh earning more can sometimes cost us the very things you were hoping the money would give us, which is time, relationship, health, or peace.
28:53
SPEAKER_07: Okay, and then yeah, there's a lifestyle inflation, the subtle way that more quietly because yeah, the new baseline until what once fell felt abundant, suddenly felt ordinary.
29:07
SPEAKER_07: That's the very trap, okay?
29:08
SPEAKER_07: Okay, and then there's also the difference between security and status status, okay?
29:15
SPEAKER_07: When wanting enough money to feel safe is very different from needing more money to prove that you're successful.
29:24
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
29:25
SPEAKER_07: Okay, that and perhaps the most uncomfortable question uh of all what is money costing you beyond the money itself?
29:36
SPEAKER_07: Because sometimes the most expensive thing we're paying with isn't money, it's our time.
29:43
SPEAKER_07: Okay?
29:44
SPEAKER_01: We're changing time for money, time with family.
29:47
SPEAKER_07: Yes, correct.
29:47
SPEAKER_07: Yes, yes, yes.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: Whatever.
29:49
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, and yes, yes.
29:50
SPEAKER_07: And time is uh the one currency we don't get back, okay?
29:54
SPEAKER_07: And then so, yeah, so I don't think the question is simply uh does money buy happiness?
30:01
SPEAKER_07: Okay, that's so simplistic, okay.
30:03
SPEAKER_07: I think the better question is like, am I using the money uh I have to intentionally build a life actually value?
30:13
SPEAKER_07: Or yes, or or am I simply using it to make the absence of the life more comfortable?
30:21
SPEAKER_07: Okay, that's the that's the question, bigger question.
30:25
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, because yeah, money can give us a bigger house, it can give us more choices, it can give us breathing room, okay, but it cannot tell us what kind of life is worth to see.
30:40
SPEAKER_07: So, in the short words, yeah, I put this way money is a tool.
30:45
SPEAKER_07: Okay, correct?
30:47
SPEAKER_07: And like any tool, it's only as good as what you're building with it, yeah, what you're making of it, okay?
30:54
SPEAKER_07: It can build the container.
30:57
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, it can build the container, okay?
30:59
SPEAKER_07: The house of freedom, the option, but it cannot build what goes inside that container.
31:05
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, and then like self-respect, yeah, like self-respect purpose, meaningful relationship and growth.
31:11
SPEAKER_07: None of those are for sale.
31:14
SPEAKER_07: Okay, yeah, and none of yeah, and none of them show up automatically just because the money did.
31:20
SPEAKER_07: That to me, uh, Vadim, the relationship between money and a good life, it's not the enemy of a good life, you know, and it's not the answer to it either, but it's the resource you've guilt to build with, okay?
31:35
SPEAKER_07: And the building still has to be done by you.
31:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:40
SPEAKER_02: Totally agree.
31:41
SPEAKER_02: Totally agree.
31:42
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, thank you.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: So uh people um often search for a purpose as it as it is a hidden treasure, but it's somewhere far, far away.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: So you write a lot about uh finding purpose in the ordinary.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: How do we spot purpose in day-to-day life rather than uh chasing external validation like nowadays, likes, followers?
32:10
SPEAKER_01: How do we find that within our like day-to-day life?
32:13
SPEAKER_07: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
32:15
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I think uh the search for purpose gets harder than it needs to be, because we've been sold the wrong picture of what looks it like.
32:25
SPEAKER_07: Okay, like we imagine, yeah, we imagine it is something we find, okay, like a calling, a mission probably, or a single sentence that explains your whole life, okay?
32:38
SPEAKER_07: And when it doesn't if and when it doesn't arrive like that, we conclude that we simply haven't found ours yet.
32:45
SPEAKER_07: Okay?
32:46
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, because of that bigger, bigger, bigger imagination of the purpose.
32:50
SPEAKER_07: So I don't think that's how purpose actually works.
32:54
SPEAKER_07: No, it's not purpose actually works.
32:56
SPEAKER_07: I think uh purpose isn't a discovery, it's closer to attention for me, yeah?
33:03
SPEAKER_07: It's closer to attention.
33:05
SPEAKER_07: It's uh noticing again and again what actually feels alive to us versus what just feels like noise we're responding to, okay?
33:16
SPEAKER_07: Like, and yeah, and in a world this loud, noisy, okay.
33:22
SPEAKER_07: Uh yeah, I know that's genuinely hard, okay?
33:26
SPEAKER_07: Because noise and purpose can look very similar from the outside, okay?
33:32
SPEAKER_07: Like uh for this, yeah.
33:33
SPEAKER_07: Being busy can look like we have a direction, okay?
33:37
SPEAKER_07: Like being being needed can look like mattering to someone, okay?
33:43
SPEAKER_07: Responding to everyone uh as responding to everyone's request can look productive, okay?
33:51
SPEAKER_07: That but that's that's different, that's no easier, right?
33:54
SPEAKER_07: But none of that tells us whether uh we're moving towards something that's actually ours or simply moving because uh something we asked to, right?
34:09
SPEAKER_07: And then uh so if someone uh asks me directly how do I find my purpose, and then I wouldn't start with uh a big question like what is my purpose?
34:22
SPEAKER_07: No, I won't I won't start uh with that bigger question.
34:25
SPEAKER_07: Probably I start much uh small smaller, like what parts of uh your ordinary week would you protect even if no one is watching?
34:38
SPEAKER_07: Something smaller like that.
34:40
SPEAKER_07: What would you do uh if it earns you nothing?
34:46
SPEAKER_07: Okay, and then which conversation leave you feeling more like yourself rather than less?
34:53
SPEAKER_07: Okay, like or what do you keep coming back to think about even when nothing is demanding our attention?
35:02
SPEAKER_07: And then if those are clues, actually, yeah, those are clues, and then purpose tends to leave a trail uh in things we choose anyway, not necessarily the things we were told to want, okay?
35:18
SPEAKER_07: And I think purpose is quieter than people expect uh expect, okay?
35:24
SPEAKER_07: It rarely arrives as a lightning bolt.
35:27
SPEAKER_07: No, it's not it's rarely like whoa who like a right lightning bolt.
35:33
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
35:33
SPEAKER_07: But sometimes it's so up uh so up as a pull of us keep ignoring in favor of whatever is louder than they.
35:43
SPEAKER_07: The inbox, the scroll, the next obligation, something like that.
35:48
SPEAKER_07: So I don't think most people are necessarily missing a purpose, no?
35:53
SPEAKER_07: They are missing the stillness required to hear it.
35:59
SPEAKER_07: That's the distinction, yeah.
36:01
SPEAKER_07: And that's the real cause, yeah, and that's the real cause of a noisy world.
36:06
SPEAKER_07: The world that we live right now, Vadim, okay?
36:08
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
36:09
SPEAKER_07: Not that yes, yes, not that it prevents purpose from existing, but that it can drown out our ability to notice it.
36:22
SPEAKER_07: So you're so finding purpose in a world like this isn't really about searching harder, okay?
36:29
SPEAKER_07: But it's about getting quiet enough, often enough, to notice what you keep circling back to, okay, and then having the courage to build your days around it instead of around whatever happens to the loudest.
36:48
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
36:48
SPEAKER_07: That's the purpose for me in the very noisy world today.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: Understood.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: Understood, yeah.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally agree.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: When life feels uncertain or overwhelming, our decision-making ability usually takes a hit.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: What is your framework for um making grounded decision when you cannot predict the outcome during the hard times?
37:17
SPEAKER_07: Like Okay, okay.
37:19
SPEAKER_07: I think uh the first thing we have to accept is that uncertainty uh is not a problem we can always solve before making a decision.
37:32
unknown: Okay.
37:34
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
37:34
SPEAKER_07: We often think that we need to know more before we can decide.
37:38
SPEAKER_07: Okay, like we often think like that.
37:40
SPEAKER_07: More information, yes.
37:43
SPEAKER_07: Uh what more information, and then more reassurance, more uh certainty about how how things will turn out, okay?
37:54
SPEAKER_07: But life itself rarely gives us that kind of guarantee.
37:59
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, right?
38:00
SPEAKER_07: And then so for me, better decision isn't about uh trying to predict the future perfectly.
38:09
SPEAKER_07: It's about getting clear enough to make a decision without needing certainty.
38:17
SPEAKER_07: So I usually uh start with a much simpler question.
38:22
SPEAKER_07: What do I actually know?
38:25
SPEAKER_07: That's a simple question uh that I want to start with, yeah.
38:30
SPEAKER_07: Separate what you know uh from what we're assuming.
38:35
SPEAKER_07: Okay, like what we're yeah, yeah, what we're afraid might happen and what other people are telling we should happen.
38:47
SPEAKER_07: Okay, because uncertainty becomes much heavier when all those of those things get mixed together.
38:56
SPEAKER_07: And then I ask, what actually matters to me here?
39:00
SPEAKER_07: That's the second question.
39:02
SPEAKER_07: Because sometimes like we're struggling to make a decision, we're struggling because the things we value are in conflict, correct?
39:13
SPEAKER_07: And then maybe maybe like this security versus freedom.
39:16
SPEAKER_07: That's the one the two things that we value that, and then suddenly it's conflict, or like growth versus stability.
39:24
SPEAKER_07: So be or being there for someone versus protecting your own boundaries.
39:29
SPEAKER_07: That's like more conflict.
39:31
SPEAKER_07: Uh and then and then like once we know uh the threat off we're actually making, this is the decision often comes become more clearer.
39:42
SPEAKER_07: Clearer, okay?
39:44
SPEAKER_07: And I think we also have a uh get comfortable with the fact that a good decision can still lead to an outcome we don't an outcome we don't like.
39:56
SPEAKER_07: Okay?
39:57
SPEAKER_07: That's important.
39:58
SPEAKER_07: We tend to judge our decision by what happened afterward, but we can make a thoughtful decision with the information we had the time and still get an expected result.
40:11
SPEAKER_07: Okay?
40:11
SPEAKER_07: That doesn't necessarily mean the decision was wrong.
40:15
SPEAKER_07: Sometimes better decision making is simply knowing.
40:19
SPEAKER_07: This is what I know, this is what I don't know, this is what matters to me.
40:24
SPEAKER_07: And given of all that, yeah, this is the choice I'm willing to make.
40:28
SPEAKER_07: Okay?
40:29
SPEAKER_07: This is not this is not ideal, probably, but yeah.
40:33
SPEAKER_07: This is what matters to me, and given all that, yeah, this is the choice I'm I'm willing to make, whatever it is, okay?
40:38
SPEAKER_07: And then we just move.
40:41
SPEAKER_07: Okay?
40:41
SPEAKER_07: Because a tying in indecision can feel safe, can feel safe, uh, but it but it has a cost too, okay?
40:49
SPEAKER_07: Not choosing is still a choice, okay?
40:52
SPEAKER_07: Right?
40:52
SPEAKER_07: Oh yeah, so yeah.
40:53
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
40:54
SPEAKER_07: So I don't think the goal is to become certain before we act.
40:59
SPEAKER_07: The goal is to become clear enough to act while uncertainty is still there.
41:06
SPEAKER_07: And sometimes clarity doesn't come before the decision.
41:11
SPEAKER_07: Sometimes uh it comes because we finally make one.
41:16
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that's yeah, that's for me.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
41:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay, thank you.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: And um next question, it's one of the most important questions, I would I would say, like, at least at least for me, very very important.
41:30
SPEAKER_01: It's about relationships, family, parenting in a in this distracted world.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh so you live in in Jakarta, one of the busiest cities probably in the world.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: How do you build the quiet inside uh like quiet inside yourself and uh raise resilient children in such a high pressure environment?
41:54
SPEAKER_01: How do you say quiet inside and uh how do you yeah with children?
41:59
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
42:01
SPEAKER_07: Before I knew all of this, yeah, before I learned about the good life for years, I think a good life is something that waits for us uh in the more quieter place, okay?
42:13
SPEAKER_07: More like in the side sideways, or then more like a a cottage, cottage house, yeah, in the in the in the village, yeah, countryside, village, uh, yeah, like more like a sub-cottage uh village like that.
42:28
SPEAKER_07: Uh I I I often do think about it uh like before, yeah, before.
42:32
SPEAKER_07: But the more I learn, yeah, the more I try to dig deeper about a good life.
42:38
SPEAKER_07: Uh indeed it's not, okay?
42:40
SPEAKER_07: It's not something that waits for you in the quieter place.
42:43
SPEAKER_07: No.
42:44
SPEAKER_07: We can still build a good life in the busiest city, like Jakarta, Indonesia, or probably in New York, or probably in London, yeah, or probably in Mumbai, or probably in Bangkok, Thailand.
42:56
SPEAKER_07: Okay, there's a whole there's there's a busy busy city in the world, yeah.
43:00
SPEAKER_05: Right.
43:00
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
43:01
SPEAKER_07: Because, yeah, because like uh once uh once again, once we know, once we know, yeah, once we know the the foundation of a good life, I will I will I will say this uh this is a good life uh framework.
43:16
SPEAKER_07: The framework that I uh find by myself, and because of the learning, the is this of the learning of these years, this is the uh foundation of the good life.
43:25
SPEAKER_07: Once we know this all kind of foundation, first is self-respect, yeah, self-respect knowing your worth, yeah, knowing your boundaries, yeah, your something like that.
43:32
SPEAKER_07: And then also your purpose, yeah, something that I already told you before.
43:36
SPEAKER_07: Uh meaningful relationship, yeah.
43:38
SPEAKER_07: The one that we want to build a good life with, okay?
43:41
SPEAKER_07: The one that uh person that we want to share our life with, oh, the one that person that uh we we will we value them, yeah.
43:49
SPEAKER_07: And then the sec uh the last one is the growth, continuous growth, yeah.
43:53
SPEAKER_07: We probably become more wiser, become more uh kinder, become more intentional to what to the way we live.
44:00
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, once this whole four foundation together they strengthen enough, you can build a good life wherever you be.
44:11
SPEAKER_07: Okay?
44:12
SPEAKER_07: So but you cannot choose only one to strengthen.
44:15
SPEAKER_07: You cannot choose only self-respect.
44:17
SPEAKER_07: No.
44:18
SPEAKER_07: You cannot just only propose to strengthen to strengthen off.
44:23
SPEAKER_07: And then you cannot only choose meaningful relationships.
44:26
SPEAKER_07: No.
44:26
SPEAKER_07: You have to build all of four of the four of this, yeah, this foundation.
44:31
SPEAKER_07: So by then you can build when this when this four foundation is strong enough, yeah, no matter the circumstances is, no matter no matter the city that you live in, no matter the situation you uh you you you uh you write now, yeah, you can still build a good life.
44:52
SPEAKER_07: It's not waiting for you to, yeah, it's not also it's not like when it's not waiting for you to get success first, no.
44:59
SPEAKER_07: It's not waiting for you to uh to have a hap made uh happy marriage first, no.
45:04
SPEAKER_07: Okay?
45:04
SPEAKER_07: It's not waiting for you to have a really uh remarkable achievement first, no.
45:10
SPEAKER_07: We can still uh we can still build a good life when we already achieved this for foundation.
45:17
SPEAKER_07: So uh that is also uh happened with uh raising children.
45:23
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, we raising resilient children in this uh modern world, in this distress, distract world.
45:29
SPEAKER_07: Okay.
45:30
SPEAKER_07: Uh we can tell we can uh we can only like give them, you know, like safe space for them to grow.
45:40
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
45:41
SPEAKER_07: We are not like saying to stay strong.
45:43
SPEAKER_07: You have to stay strong, no.
45:45
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, but we have to uh make sure that we we we we always be there for them to know that they're love, being love, but also to make a great environment for them to grow.
45:58
SPEAKER_07: Okay, so whatever so whatever the obstacle come for them, the overcome uh overc uh the obstacle come for them, they will know how to.
46:09
SPEAKER_07: They will know how to yeah, how to maintain it.
46:12
SPEAKER_07: They know how to face it, yeah, because and probably need to be a good example for them, right?
46:17
SPEAKER_07: It's also important that it's correct, yeah, correct, correct.
46:20
SPEAKER_07: Because like uh they they will know uh their self-respect is not uh by only you doing uh your your your great is good, yeah, to be loved.
46:32
SPEAKER_07: No.
46:33
SPEAKER_07: That's yeah, that's also yeah, one of the examples that how we can build resilient child is there's only uh from one aspect self-respect.
46:41
SPEAKER_07: Uh we can we can move into the other foundation like purpose, meaningful relationship and also growth, yeah, yeah, something like that.
46:48
SPEAKER_07: That but that's only one example that I want to give to you.
46:52
SPEAKER_07: So do uh we cannot just say that you have to still stay strong.
46:56
SPEAKER_07: You have to stay strong, no, but you have to also create an environment that also grows, uh, that also like uh make a space for them to grow.
47:06
SPEAKER_07: And then also in the same time, they will know that whatever happened, yeah, whatever happened, they will have someone, yeah, that feels safe for them to always come back.
47:17
SPEAKER_07: Okay, and then by that, yeah, and then by that they can continue their life no matter what the obstacle is, yeah.
47:24
SPEAKER_07: They can like see it more certain, more firm, and more confident.
47:29
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
47:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: Good, good, yeah.
47:34
SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, next question.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, also building a meaningful life life uh requires saying saying no uh to people, to some opportunities.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: So how we set firm uh boundaries uh to protect our family time and uh mental peace uh without uh feeling guilty.
47:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:57
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
47:59
SPEAKER_07: Uh so uh how we can like more uh sorry, what once again?
48:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean I mean I mean in order to have time with our family and have a meaningful life, we sometimes or maybe maybe often we need to say no maybe to some people, to some opportunities.
48:17
SPEAKER_01: So how to say no but not feeling guilty about it.
48:22
SPEAKER_07: Uh okay, okay.
48:25
SPEAKER_07: This is the first foundation that uh really important for a good life.
48:32
SPEAKER_07: It's self-respect.
48:33
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
48:34
SPEAKER_07: This is this is more like in the scope of self-respect.
48:36
SPEAKER_07: Because self-respect respect is uh more than knowing your worth, okay?
48:41
SPEAKER_07: One you're knowing your worth, and then you will uh you will uh make a boundaries of of it, yeah.
48:48
SPEAKER_07: Of the and then and then you just like keeping your value.
48:52
SPEAKER_07: That's the self-respect.
48:54
SPEAKER_07: So uh when when we s yeah, sometimes in life we have to we yeah, sure, we have to choose no, yeah.
49:02
SPEAKER_07: We have to choose no or yes to whatever it is, and it so become uh it it will like more align with our family or our our relationship.
49:11
SPEAKER_07: Because uh yeah, because like uh this is important because uh that boundaries itself is not a wall.
49:21
SPEAKER_07: It's uh it's it's kind of garden.
49:24
SPEAKER_07: Garden of yourself.
49:26
SPEAKER_07: Yes?
49:27
SPEAKER_07: It's not a wall to make a people or go farther than you, uh but but more like a uh more like a guardian for you.
49:35
SPEAKER_07: To keep your to protect your value, your intention, or your or your yeah, your more like your value.
49:44
SPEAKER_07: So that's uh that's that's important for me, yeah.
49:47
SPEAKER_07: Your your uh how to uh to keep it, your boundaries, your decision.
49:53
SPEAKER_07: Because if we are not like uh practi protect it, yeah, we we like tend we we tend we tend to like get going where the wind blows, you know?
50:03
SPEAKER_07: Exactly.
50:04
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, we like to going like uh what what the people will will will love us to do, okay?
50:11
SPEAKER_07: We tend to we tend to move by other expectations.
50:16
SPEAKER_07: In fact, that is not something we want truly do at a time, okay?
50:22
SPEAKER_07: That is something not yeah, because uh because it's something like I think I don't want to do this, but if I say say no to this, what will uh they think about me?
50:33
SPEAKER_07: Something like that, you know?
50:35
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, this is something that the other or like but I feel need I feel uh people need me.
50:41
SPEAKER_07: Okay, but but at the same time you feel like but but uh honestly, this is not what I want.
50:47
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
50:48
SPEAKER_07: So but it's important to know your uh your value, your own worth before everything, yeah.
50:55
SPEAKER_07: Before everything you say something, you're yes or no.
50:59
SPEAKER_07: You say yours or no, yeah.
51:01
SPEAKER_07: So so when the uh situation came in, you know how to choose.
51:08
SPEAKER_07: When you say yes, yeah, when you say yes, you consciously choose it.
51:12
SPEAKER_07: And then your heart, your mind, and your value is aligned.
51:15
SPEAKER_07: All is aligned, okay?
51:16
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, okay, and then when you choose no, the same.
51:19
SPEAKER_07: And then not not not doing like something when you say yes, you in in inside you will you you what you you you have to uh you want to say no.
51:29
SPEAKER_07: No.
51:30
SPEAKER_07: So when yeah, so uh when we already know our value, our worth, yeah, our worth and how to how to uh make these uh boundaries, it's easy.
51:41
SPEAKER_07: It's easy to answer to all the situation that needs our uh answer, our decision, our choice, yeah.
51:50
SPEAKER_07: So that's the important thing for me, yes.
51:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
51:54
SPEAKER_01: Good, good.
51:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh Kirana, you emphasize that a good life uh it's isn't something we build, but something, oh sorry, not something we find, but something we build through small choices.
52:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
52:08
SPEAKER_01: So what are the subtle small decisions people make every day that uh secretly shape uh their character?
52:17
SPEAKER_01: Like what are those small like uh step by step uh and eventually we shape us into some certain character?
52:27
SPEAKER_07: Okay.
52:28
SPEAKER_07: The only thing uh the the only person who knows what it is is yourself, okay?
52:37
SPEAKER_07: I uh because it's not the same with uh one person and the other person, it's not the same.
52:42
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
52:43
SPEAKER_07: So but but but this is the underline, yeah.
52:46
SPEAKER_07: This is the underline.
52:47
SPEAKER_07: Uh not every habit is will uh will lead to a good life.
52:51
SPEAKER_07: No.
52:52
SPEAKER_07: You have to choose a uh yeah, because you know like habit, not uh not everything is good, right?
52:58
SPEAKER_07: Probably there's a habit that's good also, but that is not like uh will will eventually will make you becoming, okay?
53:06
SPEAKER_07: Becoming someone.
53:07
SPEAKER_07: Okay, so uh what the tiny daily habit that you choose is depend on yourself.
53:13
SPEAKER_07: You have to choose it uh uh by yourself.
53:16
SPEAKER_07: As for me, I be I start with a reading, okay?
53:19
SPEAKER_07: And I don't know uh what uh what goes for you, Fadim.
53:22
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, probably I don't know, probably with the others like doing doing uh journaling.
53:27
SPEAKER_07: I don't know, yeah.
53:28
SPEAKER_07: And then like the others probably uh listen to a podcast uh one hour a day.
53:32
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
53:32
SPEAKER_01: So Yeah, actually a listening podcast read a book, go to the gym.
53:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
53:37
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
53:37
SPEAKER_07: So basically, yeah, yeah.
53:39
SPEAKER_07: So basically it's uh it's returning to you, which choose one daily habit that uh you feel that it's truly yours.
53:48
SPEAKER_07: You have to love it.
53:50
SPEAKER_07: Okay, you have to love it, and it will make a good impact for you in the future if you always do it every day.
53:57
SPEAKER_07: If you always like start coming back to that habit daily daily, and then it will become your uh your your life that you build, okay?
54:06
SPEAKER_07: Because that's what I believe, uh Vadim, the this tiny daily habit, even though it looks tiny, yeah, for uh for for the first yeah, but eventually it will compound.
54:19
SPEAKER_07: Okay, it will compound and then and then it eventually become your character.
54:27
SPEAKER_07: Okay, even though it will become your character, after it became your character, it will become your destiny.
54:33
SPEAKER_07: So, what I mean with destiny is the life you are trying to build.
54:37
SPEAKER_07: It's your future over there, okay?
54:40
SPEAKER_07: Even though you think that this is a tiny daily habit.
54:44
SPEAKER_07: What's the point with this?
54:46
SPEAKER_07: Okay, but but you know, it's not it's not uh it's not uh how it works, okay?
54:52
SPEAKER_07: We uh we tend to think that a good life yeah uh has to build by a grand major transformation.
55:01
SPEAKER_07: With uh oh yeah, you know, like uh yeah more grand grand uh grand plan, okay?
55:06
SPEAKER_07: Probably grand plan.
55:07
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
55:08
SPEAKER_07: But yeah, but I believe that is not how it works.
55:11
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, probably a major, major transformation can also affect you.
55:17
SPEAKER_07: But the most effect uh effect it is like by doing small daily habits, small daily routine, or just simply uh uh choose one tiny daily choice or one tiny daily uh decision every day of your life, yeah.
55:34
SPEAKER_07: And by consciously, intentionally, and then by that, yeah, you can build a good life that you want.
55:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, good.
55:43
SPEAKER_01: Agreed, yeah.
55:45
SPEAKER_01: And also a little bit about uh again about your book.
55:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm curious.
55:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh your book is uh structured into three main rooms.
55:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh how we think, how we love, and how we use what we have, I guess.
56:02
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yes, yes, yes.
56:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh so if a reader could only take away one core habit from those rooms, uh, what would you want it to be?
56:16
SPEAKER_07: One core room to this uh uh three parts, yeah.
56:21
SPEAKER_07: Still, yeah, still I want to say this.
56:24
SPEAKER_07: The core theme of this is how to build a good life.
56:28
SPEAKER_07: Still, that's my idea, even though probably it's comfy coming from personal SI, yeah.
56:35
SPEAKER_07: My personal personal stories, you will find so many personal stories in my book, yeah.
56:40
SPEAKER_07: But that's how I keep my uh book feels more like uh not preachy.
56:45
SPEAKER_07: It's like a more converse conversation with the honest friend, young uh the one that's vulnerable, but yeah, uh try to, yeah.
56:52
SPEAKER_07: I've been I've been there, done that, okay, something like that.
56:56
SPEAKER_07: But still, the main idea is how to build a good life, okay?
57:01
SPEAKER_07: Probably self-respect, purpose, meaningful relation, and growth is like scattered, scattered in those chapters, okay?
57:07
SPEAKER_07: In those chapters, but still uh it's like the idea of a good life, yeah, the intention living that I want you uh the the reader to understand, yeah, uh understand, or probably just a little bit aware aware about it, yeah.
57:23
SPEAKER_07: Just probably have a slowdown for a while, or like invitation to a slowdown for a while to the life that you live right now, and then and then take a look, take a look at yourself, yeah.
57:36
SPEAKER_07: Right now.
57:37
SPEAKER_07: This is the life that that I live right now is the life that I want, the life that I want to build.
57:43
SPEAKER_07: This is a good life.
57:44
SPEAKER_07: That's something like that.
57:46
SPEAKER_07: That's the main idea.
57:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
57:50
SPEAKER_01: Sounds awesome, yeah.
57:52
SPEAKER_01: And uh the last question for today I want to ask you, Karana.
57:58
SPEAKER_01: If someone is uh watching, listening it right now feels like they are living on autopilot, like what is the very first smallest step they could take today after turning off this podcast?
58:13
SPEAKER_02: And how to start?
58:15
SPEAKER_02: What is the initial step?
58:19
SPEAKER_07: Okay.
58:20
SPEAKER_07: Uh the problem with living an autopilot is we just only living the life that by default, okay?
58:28
SPEAKER_07: Because we often we we never check in to ourself.
58:33
SPEAKER_07: We never check in, we're just living the life by default, you know, like yeah, because the yeah, you know, by by because the external, external factor outside ourselves, like expectation, distraction, you know, noise, yeah, something like that in the this noise more noisy world.
58:49
SPEAKER_07: But we forget to check in our our daily life into ourselves, yeah, yeah.
58:54
SPEAKER_07: And then the one thing that I uh want the listener to have is like simply pause for a while.
59:03
SPEAKER_07: Like simply like that.
59:04
SPEAKER_07: Pause for a while before you choose something, before you decide something, yeah, before you uh want to answer something, just uh pause for a while.
59:17
SPEAKER_07: Make a space for yourself to listen, to listen what inside your heart, what inside your mind, instead of just answer it by default, okay?
59:28
SPEAKER_07: Because it feels uh like habit, because it feels like yeah, the way it's the way I I live my life of after all these years, okay?
59:36
SPEAKER_07: But you have to simply pause for a while and then ask ask yourself, like, okay, uh this is the choice.
59:44
SPEAKER_07: What do I want to choose?
59:46
SPEAKER_07: What how do I want to react?
59:48
SPEAKER_07: How do I want to decide?
59:50
SPEAKER_07: Okay, so by that, yeah, just simply pause.
59:54
SPEAKER_07: You can you can uh choose your life intentionally, you can choose a tiny daily daily uh decision intentionally, you're choosing it really, really conscious.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_07: You choose you chose it because you want to choose it, okay?
1:00:11
SPEAKER_07: Simply by post.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_07: That's what I want to the listener uh to to do, yeah.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_07: Where uh in this daily world, instead of leaving an autopilot, you just only have simply post-listen to yourself.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_07: That's the only practical uh point that I want to listen to.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, need to need to act, yeah.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
1:00:33
SPEAKER_01: Okay, Karana, thank you very much for sharing your wisdom with us today.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_07: And for everybody guys, I think it's nice to be here, Vedin.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, thank you so much for this meaningful conversation.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah, I love it, love it.
1:00:53
SPEAKER_01: And uh, for everybody who's interesting in uh uh contact to contact Kirana and uh buy her book, it's on uh Cheersforagoodlife.com.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_01: The live uh the link will be in description and Kirana's social media will be on in the description below.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_01: And for now it's the end of this episode.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_01: Everybody take care.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_01: Bye bye, bye-bye.
1:01:20
SPEAKER_07: Bye.
1:01:25
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for watching till the end.
1:01:27
SPEAKER_01: If you like it, please hit like and subscribe button, leave us a comment, and also if you want to contact Kirana, you can find her on cheersforgoodlife.com and buy her book.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, and for now, everybody take care.
1:01:46
SPEAKER_01: Bye bye.