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Created to Hear God's Voice · Beyond the Sermon

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  You're listening to Beyond the Sermon podcast, the First
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  Methodist Church in Collingswood, NJ.
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  On our podcast, the goal is not just to share the sermons we've
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  preached, but to go beyond the sermon and talk about what we're
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  learning and what God is doing in US and in our community.
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  So it's been a little bit of time, Jeremy, since you and I
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  sat down together, just the two of us last week.
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  We got to sit down with a couple of the young adults who went to
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  Passion. We took a little Christmas
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  break. I had a conversation with Will
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  in there because you were somewhere.
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  I was in Mexico. You were in Mexico?
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  Yep, Yep. So it's been a minute since
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  we've sat down together. Did you have a good Christmas?
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  Good new year? It's all blurred, yeah, in the
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  past month, but I remember there being good moments and happiness
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  around Christmas, like nothing bad.
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  So I'm, I'm assuming it was great, yeah.
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  We didn't have anybody end up in the emergency room at the
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  hospital this year. So that was automatic upgrade.
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  No, it was nice. We we had a good, it was still
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  busy. There were wrestling
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  tournaments, there were, you know, family things.
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  There were people we wanted to see and that kind of stuff.
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  But but in some ways it was. Just a little.
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  Little choir we, we intentionally chose in some ways
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  to do less after last year when we couldn't all be together on
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  Christmas. Yeah, you know, it was a really
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  high priority for us to be together as the six of us.
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  Also, knowing that, you know, Tim graduates high school in the
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  spring and you know things change when you go off into
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  college. You're going to leave the nest.
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  Yeah, might meet a girl someday and go home for Christmas and
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  you know. By next Christmas, it.
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  Could happen. It could happen.
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  I mean, I'm pretty sure I came home my freshman year for
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  Christmas, but one of my years of college, I I, I didn't even
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  go home. Oh, really?
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  Yeah, I I went to Ecuador for a month instead, all over
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  Christmas break and. Had to have those Guinea pigs,
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  yeah. Yeah, yeah.
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  Christmas is always a unique weird time since being in
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  ministry, Yeah, where it's like blending the well, I mean, like
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  even and then marriage, right? Blending 2 sets of tradition and
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  then also the things that go into ministry in that.
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  Like the church tradition where you're serving like kind of.
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  Yeah, all of that. And and then this, you're having
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  to go to Mexico to take care of some personal stuff and mixed
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  in. And then Passion was a little
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  earlier this year. So New Year's Eve, we were
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  flying out with the college kids and yeah, so it all just kind of
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  happened, like back-to-back to back-to-back to back.
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  And but the boys had a good Christmas and playing with all
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  the dinosaurs and trains and your boys leaving.
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  Yeah. How's that?
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  It's heavy, it's heavy, it's good.
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  It's what we've aimed for, right, to have kids who grow up,
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  mature, know where they feel like they're headed in life, and
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  leave the the nest to do it right.
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  So it's good in that sense, but it's hard.
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  It's a lot of things shifting. So we're enjoying all that we
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  can, prioritizing as much of his senior year of wrestling as we
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  can. Destroying everybody in his
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  path. He is, yeah.
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  He's doing pretty well. Not going to say I'm counting
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  down the number of matches we have left to watch him, but it
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  is 23. What are what as a pastor?
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  And I like the, I don't like it, but like the the terms that
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  pastors use of like casting vision.
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  What vision are you casting for our congregation this calendar
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  year? I think my goal this or at least
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  in the first half of this year, because I haven't necessarily
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  thought through the entire year. I don't usually think about the
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  second-half of the year until we're coming up on summer and
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  especially over the summer trying to really pray through
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  what we're doing. But in the first half of this
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  year, which unlike some other years, took me a while to settle
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  in on, I think probably 3 of the last four years over the summer,
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  I've prayed about what to preach, what kind of vision to
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  cast through preaching, since that's the primary way I speak
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  to the whole congregation. I've kind of had a whole school
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  year sketched out by the end of the summer.
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  This year that wasn't the case. And it's only been in the last
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  few weeks that the rest of this school year has kind of fallen
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  into place. I think what I'm feeling led to
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  is encouraging our people to get closer to God, what obviously
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  always the goal, but. Radical.
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  But getting closer to God in such a way that we can withstand
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  and and flourish as a church no matter what comes in the future.
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  And so that's why in this opening series for the first
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  year, we're talking about hearing God because I think
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  that's such a key part of what it means to walk with God and is
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  going to be foundational for some of the other things we talk
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  about this year. So like we have to walk with
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  God, we have to recognize his voice.
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  We have to know where he's leading us.
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  Because as we're going to talk about in Lent, part of a call is
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  to deny ourselves right to take up our cross and follow Jesus.
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  That's what he told us, right? And so if we're going to listen
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  to what Jesus told us, then there's there's an aspect of
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  self denial to this call to follow him.
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  And that has to walk a fine line, a tightrope, right, right
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  between legalism on one side where we say as a church,
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  everybody has to do this and just a free for all of I can do
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  whatever I want because of God's grace, right?
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  So we see that talked about in Romans and other places.
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  We're not free to do what we want because we have been bought
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  with a price. And so figuring out what it is
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  that God is asking us as part of a community but also as
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  individuals, where He's asking us to deny ourselves, Where
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  those things that we're prioritizing are becoming maybe
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  even idols in our lives. Walking with God, hearing his
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  voice helps us figure out what it means where Jesus is asking
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  us to deny ourselves. And then after Lent, we're going
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  to jump into a series on spiritual gifts and, and the
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  Holy Spirit and what it means to not just hear from God, but to
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  live in the gifts and the power and the authority that God has
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  given us as his people. And so I'm excited about that
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  because I think a lot of times we talk about volunteering for
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  the church and getting people to serve within the church.
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  And you know, we need you because we need a warm body to
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  fill that role. And and that's.
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  We accept cold ones too, not necessarily dead.
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  There's a lot of people that are very cold.
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  Well, that's true, that's true. But how much better to be able
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  to say, all right, let's help you figure out what the gifts
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  God has given to you, not just like the natural gifts, as
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  important as they are. And then that plays a role, not
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  just the skills you've picked up over life, but where has God
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  specifically gifted you spiritually so that the church
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  can be built up and the believers can be equipped to do
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  the ministry that God has called us to do, like it says in
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  Ephesians 4. And and I think when we can do
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  that, when we can operate as the church the way God intended for
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  us to goes better, we can live into what he's called us to as a
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  church more. We can be who he's called us to
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  be more. Listen, I I think that's going
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  to be a growing process. I don't think in the six or
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  eight or ten week series, we're going to Plumb the depths of
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  what that means and have it all figured out.
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  I think there's going to need to be some grace in there as as
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  people figure it out, as people learn how to operate in their
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  spiritual gifts, because that's not something that you just wake
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  up 1 morning. It's like a light switch flipped
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  on. No, it is kind of similar to
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  hearing God, right? It's because it's flowing out of
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  a relationship. That relationship has to
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  develop, right? God has to develop the, the
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  character within us that can hold those things, right?
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  The the church gets into trouble when people's gifting outpaces
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  their character development. And and that's where a lot of
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  pastors run into trouble because they focus so much on developing
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  the skills, or maybe they've clearly been given some
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  spiritual gifts, but they spend more time working on those
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  focusing on those things than they do on their own
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  relationship with God, on their own character development.
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  And they get to a point where, you know, just tips the scales
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  and it's unhealthy. Yeah.
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  So that's a very long answer. Perfect, we need to fill space.
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  A very long answer about what the vision is about, but I hope
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  those pieces kind of help people see where we're headed and why.
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  And they're not so distinct from each other as they might seem on
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  the surface, right? I, I think the hearing God is
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  key to the self denial. And I think the self denial is
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  key to being the kind of people that God can entrust with his
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  power. Yeah.
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  What was the quote you used this Sunday about like the importance
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  of hearing God? I can't remember.
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  He had a couple quotes. Two of them, yeah.
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  One from Pete Gregg and one from Dallas Willard.
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  Do the Pete Gregg one. No, I'm not talking about the
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  dangerous one. Yeah, that quote from early on
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  in the book How to Hear God, a Simple Guide for Normal People,
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  says learning to hear God's voice, his Word and His whisper
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  is the single most important thing you will ever learn to do.
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  I'm not exaggerating. Hearing God is not peripheral.
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  It is integral to human history. Neither is it an optional extra
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  for wild eyed Mystics and those who happen to be spiritually
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  inclined. Hearing God is essential to the
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  very purpose for which you and I were made.
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  Without it, everything falls apart.
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  How have you seen that quote bear truth in your own life?
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  Gosh, in so many ways, life is better when I listen to God.
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  It's not always easier, but it's always better.
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  I mean, it's kind of like that story I shared at the end of my
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  sermon on Sunday about the meeting and the PT and
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  oversleeping. And, you know, was it easier to
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  make that choice? No, not necessarily.
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  But was it better because it aligned with what God was
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  inviting me into? Absolutely.
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  Have these last few days since that meeting been better?
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  Probably because in the midst of it, I was able to continue to
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  deepen that relationship with God, Right.
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  So many times I think we, we hear from God and it's like the
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  answer we don't like on the Magic 8 ball.
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  So we don't do it and we shake it up hoping it'll come out
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  different and it doesn't. And then we wonder why we stop
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  hearing from God when the reality is, if in a
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  relationship, if I share something with you and ask you
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  to do something or, you know, share something and you don't
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  actually do anything with that information or that request,
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  well, my, my trust in you is going to diminish.
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  So it's always better. And I think this year, one of
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  the things I'm learning, which seems like a no brainer and
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  seems like something that has a almost 42 year old pastor who's
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  been in ministry for, you know, a couple decades now.
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  You would think that I would have learned, but I really feel
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  like one of the things God's working on in me this year is
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  trust. You know, not just belief, not
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  just knowing all the right things, not just assenting to
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  all the right things, but actually trusting, actually
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  putting the weight of my being, of my life, of my choices on to
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  who I know God to be and how he's asking me to respond.
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  And so a couple of the verses that have just been going
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  through my heart and mind last week or two come from Psalm 20,
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  verse 7, where it says some trust in chariot, some in
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  horses, but we trust in the name of the Lord our God.
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  And then the second one comes from Isaiah, Isaiah 26.
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  You will keep in perfect peace those whose minds are steadfast
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  because they trust in You. Yes, just that idea of, of
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  trusting God, not myself, not my own abilities, not even the
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  people around me, but trusting God to do what God has said he's
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  going to do. And being steadfast in that
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  trust. And steadfast just means, you
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  know, constant and consistent and persistent in that trust.
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  That's where we find peace. I know the past couple of years
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  you've had like a word of the year that you feel like God's
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  put on your. Heart that it's trust for this
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  year. OK.
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  And those are the 2 verses that he led me.
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  I know there's a bonus one or if trust was the bonus one and.
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  Something else. That's one of the things I was
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  feeling kind of frustrated. It's too strong, but somewhere
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  in that direction was because I didn't feel like I had heard a
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  word for this year. Somewhere I was struggling to
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  know what this first sermon series was going to be.
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  There is this 6 week gap in my. Sermon plan.
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  And I hate that. I hate that.
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  But it was just in the last week or so that these verses came to
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  my mind. And this invitation to trust,
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  even on Friday was kind of reiterated.
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  And so holding on to that for this year and excited to see
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  what God is going to do might be a little strong.
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  I'd say it's it's. Hopeful, yeah, to see how God is
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  going to work in the midst of that and with with that kind of
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  framework in mind. Yeah, almost.
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  I hate how the last person used this word, but trepidation of
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  like the nervous anticipation because similar to like, oh, if
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  you pray for patience, God's going to provide things that
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  require a lot of. Patience.
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  Been there. Done that and in regards to
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  trust that there's probably going to be some big things in
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  which require a lot of trust and so I I the hope and also excited
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  to see how God uses those areas in which you entrust him maybe
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  not enjoy the process in which you're called to do it.
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  But it'll be better. For sure, it always is, even if
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  we don't see the immediate results of that trust.
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  Well, that's our conversation for today, but that doesn't mean
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  the conversation is over. We'd love to hear your thoughts
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  on these topics as well. To ask a question about anything
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  we've discussed in this episode or to join the conversation, you
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  can head over to fumccollingswood.org/podcast.
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  Thanks for being part of this conversation.