Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed R&D Officer From MCC (Part 8) (5/11/26)

Transcript

Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed R&D Officer From MCC (Part 8) (5/11/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

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  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
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  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're diving right back into
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  that interview given by the unnamed R and D officer
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  from MCC to the OIG inspectors question. Okay, so now
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  that we know that the count was off over here,
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  and that the ten PM count, according to the lieutenant's
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  log says seventy two, but ten PM says seventy three
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  plus one, right, and now R and D is actually
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  reporting that there is an inmate in there, except they're
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  still reporting seventy three plus one. And then at midnight,
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  where is the midnight it says seventy two over here
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  and the count slip shows seventy three. What does that
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  tell you about the counts that we're done? In the
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  shoe question by the other investigator, what he's asking if
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  there's only seventy two people in there and they're reporting
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  seventy three and it just so happened to coincide and
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  this one, and you need to know that background information.
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  They reported seventy three and the opposlut tenant who took
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  the count found it was actually only seventy two, made
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  the change and changed out and keyed out Fernandez. So
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  what redacted is asking you is the fact that they
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  reported seventy three on all of these does that indicate
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  anything to you about the counts if they were done
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  or were they not done? Answer? Yeah, this looks like
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  someone wasn't paying attention because this what does this look
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  like to you? Question? Well, that's what I was going
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  to ask. What is RA Answer? RA is where the
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  guy is sitting in a dry cell? Question is that
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  R and D? Answer? Yeah, so he was. So because
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  it's now the twelve o'clock count, and it's prior to
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  the count, they can go ahead and keep him in
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  where he's actually assigned. So it seems that during the
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  ten o'clock count, he was still keyed to the shoe,
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  So what was it plus one or something? So now
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  at twelve o'clock, because he wasn't keyed there at ten o'clock,
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  they keyed him in there now because the twelve o'clock count,
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  which is correct and accurate and what they should have done.
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  But now he's plus one, he's here where he should
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  be where he stated on this notification, right, So that's accurate.
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  But if he's no longer there, they should have been
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  putting what's here? Question? Right answer, because he's not plus
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  one up there no more question. Yeah, So this one
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  is clearly that they're off. These guys, though, are still
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  even with the seventy three plus one, it should have
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  been seventy two plus one. If they're trying to say
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  we got one outside, it shouldn't be seventy three plus one.
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  They're utilizing the same number. It looks like on the
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  E one. Somehow it seems that they're or they had
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  that number, that base count number, and they knew we
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  need this as the number we need to report. But
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  also we got a plus one over in the R
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  and D. So they're still off in their account. Does
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  that indicate to you that they didn't actually conduct the count,
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  that they just used the number that they thought they
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  were supposed to report. Answer? It doesn't indicate that they
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  didn't count. Question because if they counted, wouldn't that have
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  been the right number? Answer? Sometimes you can count stuff.
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  She gets caught off by the investigator, But wouldn't it
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  be really coincidental if they miscount at the exact number
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  that they were supposed to actually provide. They definitely miscounted,
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  But there are seventy two people in there and they
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  just happen to miscount exactly what the E one shows
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  that they were supposed to count. It's a coincidence. And
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  the fact that it happened twice in a row. What
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  does that tell you? The other investigator jumps in, no,
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  three times in a row. Answer, I'm not going to
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  answer that question. Well, based on your experience, right, your
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  experience of working in control, working in R and D,
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  what do you think happened? Do you think that they
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  did the count or not? I mean, how would they
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  have gotten that number that they were supposed to report?
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  Answer by probably just looking in their log and seeing, okay,
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  when you take over my post, oh we got seventy
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  two guys. One's in R and D, but they still
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  got him keyed out to our unit based on maybe
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  what someone told them. Question and when you worked in
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  the unit at midnight, do you remember this being an
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  issue at all? Because this is where we're told the
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  absolute tenant who took the count redacted, she had to
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  run around and try to figure this thing out. She's
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  the one who had to come in and say, like, okay,
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  where who's what where? And I can verify this. Do
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  you remember that at all. Answer no. Question. Do you
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  remember any telephone calls with the shoe saying you got
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  a bad count? You got to recount? Answer no. If
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  she's taking the count, I let her deal with it
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  and I work on whatever else. Question Okay, So you're
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  not actually involved with her while she's doing it? Answer
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  no question. Okay, And you wouldn't have been, being that
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  you came from R and D. You wouldn't have been
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  the person that she said, hey, can you verify with
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  R and D that this person is there? Answer? If
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  she asked me? And that's what I did, then, But
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  I don't recall that question doing that? Okay, you don't
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  remember at all, though in that specific you do. Did
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  you recall her being there at all? Answer? Yeah, she
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  was there. Question so you remember her being in the
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  control center? Answer? Uh huh. Question and you he gets
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  cut off by the guard because she also made rounds
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  on the unit. She walked around the institution. Question all right,
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  and then as far as being keyed in and out,
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  so I guess it's he BP thirty eight. Would that
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  show when Fernandez was actually keyed in and out of
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  the system on August tenth? Answer? Fernandez the guy from
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  she gets cut off by the investigator. So Fernandez three
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  point fifteen, who was never keyed out, he wasn't keyed out?
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  Answer the dry cell guy. Question yeah, answer, yeah, it
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  would show on thirty eight. Question on thirty eight it
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  would actually show a time answer uh huh. Question and
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  how do we get to that just to make a
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  note redacted? Question? Okay, So we wouldn't even be able
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  to get it at this point, hopefully that day maintained it.
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  Answer well, sentry only goes back forty five days. So
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  question you're talking about this document? Answer yeah. Question. Now
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  if they did save these documents back, then would we
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  be able to see when he was keyed in? Answer? Yeah.
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  Question and if it's not saved answer it only goes
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  back forty five days. Question okay, all right, so that
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  will be very telling as well if we can get
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  that before we start taking everything away. There's an issue
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  with initials, being that I showed you these Can you
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  just initial at the top? Question? Do you know anything
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  about counts not actually being conducted at this time? In
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  August of twenty nineteen? Answer no. Question When you would
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  work on the custody side of the house, would you
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  be involved in things like counts. Answer if I'm counting
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  a unit with an officer, yeah, or if I'm the
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  one taking the count yes. Question did you ever do
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  any counts in the shoe? Answer I've done counts in
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  the shoe? Question you have? Answer but she gets cut off?
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  And when you were there? Did they actually conduct the counts? Answer?
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  When I do counts, I conduct counts. Yeah. Question yeah, yeah,
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  but I mean I'm not talking about you. I know
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  you did, but I mean the people that you were
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  there with, were they actually you know, you're supposed to
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  have two people to count? Was the other person also counting? Answer? Well,
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  if I have, if I'm working, yeah, counting. It's not
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  a question. We're not even having that conversation. So question
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  did you ever have anybody push back on you? Like no, no, no,
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  we're good? Answer no. Question. Have you heard of people
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  who when they're starting the shift just filling out the
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  count slips and the roundsheets and be like ahead of time?
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  Answer well, if they're on their own unit, I can't
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  tell you what they're doing on their unit. I can
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  tell you what I'm doing on my unit. Question but
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  like in the shoe, have you ever heard of like
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  people coming in and filling out both count slips and
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  roundsheets at the very start of their shift. Answer if
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  they've done that, I've never seen it. Question you've never
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  seen it. Have you ever heard of people doing anything
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  like that? Answer? I've heard of it, but I've never
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  seen it. Question is that a good practice? Answer? No,
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  question Is it known that you can't do that? Answer?
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  You're not supposed to do that. Question Does everyone know
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  that they can't especially if we're talking about round sheets?
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  Does everyone know that you can't go and say it
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  goes from eight am until twelve pm? You can't go
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  in at eight am and write out everything you did
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  for all around all the way to twelve pm. Answer,
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  you can't do that because anything can happen. An emergency
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  can take place, an inmate could get removed from your unit,
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  you could get a new guy, and there's a number
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  of things that could take place that you're not supposed
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  to even your logbook pre fill out your log. Question
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  is there any training, though that you all receive saying
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  anything you got to do this when you're actually conducting
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  the rounds, and certainly you know maybe after the fact
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  is okay because you already did it. But beforehand. Answer.
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  Maybe if the lieutenant sees it, you know, they might say, hey,
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  you know, you're not supposed to pre fill out your
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  count slips. They might say, you know, you can fill
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  out the dates, the time, the unit. You might could
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  even fill out the name, but you're not supposed to
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  put in the actual number because you don't know what
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  can happen. Question So as far and discernible talking about
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  count slips, I'm talking about round sheets. Answer, Oh, no,
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  you're not supposed to. They always tell you. The lieutenants,
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  they always say that you're not supposed They always tell
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  everybody that question. And do you know if back in
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  August of twenty nineteen they were also saying that answer No,
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  I don't know about that question. And is there any
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  training that's provided to teach people how to actually fill
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  out round sheets and count slips or is it supposed
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  to be common sense? Question? Normally your training on the
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  job and as you go along. So if I'm new
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  and you know I'm training up under your officer, you
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  might show me certain things, and people just learn by
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  asking questions and maybe another officer just showing them the ropes,
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  and everybody don't do everything the way they're supposed to do.
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  So I might come in as a new officer and
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  you might be showing me stuff and it could be
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  completely wrong, but I'm doing what you showed me because
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  that's all I know. So it just depends on who's
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  training who and who's showing who what to do, and
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  that's pretty much it because on the job right now,
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  we have new staff training and new staff. We have
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  staff that's here like a month training staff that's here
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  a week. So the blind leading the blind question. So
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  if someone makes the excuse that no one ever told
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  me that I could do that, but I saw other
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  people filling out round sheets ahead of time, so that's
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  why I did it. Is that an excuse? Do you believe?
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  So you think that that was an actual excuse to say, like,
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  well he did it, so I did it, and that
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  makes it okay because don't you think it's pretty common
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  sense that no, you can't. You're certifying a document saying
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  you conducted that round at that time. Answer? Yeah, common
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  sense to the people that think outside the box. But
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  common sense is not common to everybody. And I'm not
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  trying to be a smart ass, you know. Question No,
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  it's a good point. Answer and you know, I've been
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  doing law enforcement for a while, you know, corrections, juvenile
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  school safety, so I've seen things on the job that
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  made me take my job very seriously. But when you
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  have no knowledge, you have no experience, no correctional background,
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  you've never been placed in an environment that you felt
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  was that dangerous for you to be as mindful as
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  you should be, and you don't, then nothing happens. You
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  follow what you see everybody else doing in past practice,
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  and it's not always right. And a lot of people
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  don't read what they're supposed to be doing. They just
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  go by what you tell them. And what I could
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  tell you what to do doesn't necessarily mean that that's
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  actually what you're supposed to be doing. Question, sure answer.
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  And if you don't read it in black and white
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  for yourself, how would you know that this is actually
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  what you should be doing. And it's just a lack
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  of training around here. Staff are not being trained, and
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  that's what creates a lot of our problems. We don't
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  have bad institution, we just have a lack of training,
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  you know. And I don't think that people are willing
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  to work. I think they want to work, but it's
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  a lack of training, and it's a lack of morale
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  in the institution. So I think that's what the biggest
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  problem is. People are not being properly trained. So yeah,
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  if I see you doing it, I think it's okay.
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  I'm not ever thinking, oh, you know what, maybe I
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  shouldn't do that something might happen, if nothing ever really
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  happens to me. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up
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  right here, and in the next episode, we're gonna pick
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  up where we left off. All the information that goes
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  with this episode can be found in the description box.