Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #462 Autonomous Parenting

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#462 Autonomous Parenting · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
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  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just answers.
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  Speaker 2: Now, let the kids figure it out.
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  Speaker 3: And when they've got that level of autonomy, when we
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  Speaker 3: take the pressure off, they tend to do better because
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  Speaker 3: they know that it's on them.
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  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum
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  Speaker 1: and dad.
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  Speaker 3: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coilson, the author of a
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  Speaker 3: bunch of books about how to make your family happier.
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  Speaker 3: I'm sitting here in like an Airbnb on the coast,
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  Speaker 3: trying to work out if this feels so strange.
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  Speaker 2: It's not our studio, Kylie.
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  Speaker 4: It does feel a bit echo we It feels a.
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  Speaker 3: Bit everything not quite right, but we're going to get
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  Speaker 3: through this podcast.
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  Speaker 4: In fact, I'm.
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  Speaker 2: Really excited today's topic.
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  Speaker 3: A couple of weeks ago, I had somebody say to me,
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  Speaker 3: you do the whole parental guidance Channel nine talking about
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  Speaker 3: parenting styles, and somebody said, well, what sort of parenting
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  Speaker 3: style are you? I was running a webinar about parenting
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  Speaker 3: styles and I said, well, I don't only get involved
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  Speaker 3: in what I am doing. What I'm doing is highlighting
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  Speaker 3: to you what the research seems to show. I was
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  Speaker 3: talking about how you can be authoritative, which means that
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  Speaker 3: you've got high levels of demandingness and high levels of responsiveness.
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  Speaker 3: Or you can be authoritarian where you're very demanding but
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  Speaker 3: not quite as responsive, or you can be permissive lars
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  Speaker 3: a fair where you're pretty responsive to the kids but
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  Speaker 3: not particularly demanding. And then I started to talk about
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  Speaker 3: this thing called autonomy supportive parenting, which is where rather
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  Speaker 3: than making demands of your children and being responsive when
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  Speaker 3: they need you, which is what Diana Bormeran's things all about,
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  Speaker 3: autonomy supportive parenting is about being involved with your kids
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  Speaker 3: and helping them to work.
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  Speaker 2: Out how to structure their lives effectively.
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  Speaker 3: It's a totally different approach, and it's all about giving
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  Speaker 3: them a voice, giving them the choice in their lives
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  Speaker 3: to figure things out. And the person was really intrigued
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  Speaker 3: by that, and we had a great chat about it.
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  Speaker 3: But Kylie, the reason we're talking about this today is
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  Speaker 3: because I stumbled upon an article about how Dutch parents.
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  Speaker 3: Dutch parents help their kids to be super self reliant.
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  Speaker 3: In fact, the article which will post in the show
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  Speaker 3: notes the article is from Your Modern Family and it's
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  Speaker 3: called how Dutch parents make their children self reliant.
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  Speaker 2: And I realized as I read the article, we're Dutch.
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  Speaker 4: We're Dutch. We're Dutch, and we didn't even know it.
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  Speaker 2: You're a Dutch mom, I'm a Dutch dad.
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  Speaker 3: At least according to the article, effectively, Dutch parenting seems
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  Speaker 3: to be autonomy supportive parenting. And I'm not surprised when
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  Speaker 3: we look at the way Americans, people in the UK,
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  Speaker 3: Australian's kiwis the way we raise our kids.
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  Speaker 2: There's a fairly high level.
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  Speaker 3: Of intensity around it, and you and I often clash
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  Speaker 3: in terms of our values and the way we raise
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  Speaker 3: our kids with what the mainstream parenting approach is, which
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  Speaker 3: is authoritarian, authoritative.
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  Speaker 2: That's where most people sit. And I realized, We've.
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  Speaker 3: Just been brought up in the wrong country. I'm glad
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  Speaker 3: I wasn't born in Dutch. What country is Dutch? Is
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  Speaker 3: Dutch Holland Island. I was so glad I wasn't born
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  Speaker 3: in Holland because I don't speak the language.
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  Speaker 4: You have a really hard time getting around, wouldn't you.
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  Speaker 2: But but I parent Dutch, We parent Dutch. Who knew that?
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  Speaker 5: Well?
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  Speaker 4: How do you know that we parent Dutch?
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  Speaker 1: Well?
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  Speaker 3: Based on this article, there's three or four things that
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  Speaker 3: they've highlighted that Dutch parents do that make their kids
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  Speaker 3: self reliant.
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  Speaker 4: Do they speak Dutch? First?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't want to convinced that speaking Dutch makes
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  Speaker 3: your kids self reliant. But maybe the first one is
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  Speaker 3: that they have fewer rules. Ah, So literally, how many
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  Speaker 3: rules do we have for our kids if you would
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  Speaker 3: list them? Do we have any rules for our children
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  Speaker 3: where we could write out these other rules?
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  Speaker 2: No? Come on, we have some rules.
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  Speaker 4: We have values. Well, we have that, We've got guide.
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  Speaker 3: The kids don't swear at least we hope they don't
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  Speaker 3: not at home. The kids don't use course language.
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  Speaker 2: That's a rule.
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  Speaker 3: We don't use course language. We don't call names, We
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  Speaker 3: treat each other kindly. Their rules, But like, do the
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  Speaker 3: kids have a bedtime?
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  Speaker 4: Well, if you ask them, they'll tell you no, okay.
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  Speaker 2: All right?
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  Speaker 3: So we just permissive and the Dutch just permissive. Maybe
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  Speaker 3: we're not Dutch at all. Seriously, So here's what the
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  Speaker 3: article says. Dutch parents don't have many rules. Most things
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  Speaker 3: are negotiable, and discussion is not considered a bad thing.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, isn't that what we do?
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  Speaker 4: And that's exactly what we do, and that's why I'm saying.
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  Speaker 2: There's no hard fast this is the way it's going
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  Speaker 2: to be.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, even with.
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  Speaker 5: Bedtime, because some nights we need to kind of be
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  Speaker 5: a little bit more flexible, whether it be we've been
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  Speaker 5: out or the kids have got extra homework they need
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  Speaker 5: to work through.
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  Speaker 3: So the few rules that they do make are sacred,
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  Speaker 3: and with those rules, Dutch parents are very consequent. The
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  Speaker 3: rest of the family life is designed with the input
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  Speaker 3: of all family members, no matter how young children are.
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  Speaker 3: I just like we have a phrase that we use.
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  Speaker 3: I use it all the time, maybe me more than
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  Speaker 3: anyone else. But this phrase that I use is this
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  Speaker 3: is not a decision. This is a discussion. So it'll
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  Speaker 3: be we're thinking about doing X on the weekend, or
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  Speaker 3: we were looking at doing this for dinner tonight.
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  Speaker 2: It's not a decision.
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  Speaker 3: It's a discussion, which I know really bothers you because
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  Speaker 3: sometimes you just want a decision and sometimes you just
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  Speaker 3: want the kids to do as they're told. But we
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  Speaker 3: tend to have discussions, not decisions, Like there's no unilateral
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  Speaker 3: decision making. It's not like you're the mum, I'm the dad.
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  Speaker 3: Therefore that's what it's going to.
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  Speaker 4: Be yep, yeah, totally.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, here's the second one. Tell me what you think
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  Speaker 2: about this one.
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  Speaker 3: Giving children a voice, giving children input on their life
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  Speaker 3: is an important and sometimes criticize Dutch parenting principle. Young
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  Speaker 3: children are given choices between two kinds of vegetables. Slightly
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  Speaker 3: older kids can choose what's for dinner once a week,
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  Speaker 3: and when they get older, they get to choose their
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  Speaker 3: own sports and hobbies and friends. And that way, if
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  Speaker 3: they decide that they're going to quit music or quit
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  Speaker 3: sport or whatever, it's actually on them and they live
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  Speaker 3: with the consequences of that. And even though the parents
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  Speaker 3: might not like it and might know better, they let
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  Speaker 3: the kids have a voice and have choice.
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  Speaker 2: I just thought we're Dutch.
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  Speaker 5: One of the things I love specifically about that approach
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  Speaker 5: is just the way we're able to build strong, nurturing
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  Speaker 5: relationships with our children because they don't feel like we're
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  Speaker 5: dictating what has to happen in their lives. They actually
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  Speaker 5: feel like they have a say and they get to
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  Speaker 5: have some autonomy and control over what's happening.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I want to be really clear here, our
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  Speaker 3: style and the Dutch style we're Dutch. It's actually just
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  Speaker 3: it's autonomy supportive parenting. And I think this is why
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  Speaker 3: they're so level. They're so balanced, right, I mean people
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  Speaker 3: in that part of the world, whether they're Scandinavian or
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  Speaker 3: Finish or Dutch or whatever. People in that I guess
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to say loosely. I'm not great at geography,
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  Speaker 3: but I'm going to say, loosely, Northern European area. There
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  Speaker 3: seems to be a real balance to the way that
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  Speaker 3: they live, the way that they govern themselves, and that
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  Speaker 3: kind of thing. And I get the sense that what
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  Speaker 3: we're really talking about is this. They're not leaving the
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  Speaker 3: kids to just figure it out for themselves. What they're
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  Speaker 3: saying is, let's explore, let's explain some guidelines, and now
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  Speaker 3: let's empower you to come up with somebody.
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  Speaker 2: That's the three yeas we're Dutch.
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  Speaker 5: Well, after the break, we're going to talk about the
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  Speaker 5: two other things that Dutch parents do and some of
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  Speaker 5: the disadvantages of Dutch parenting.
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  Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families.
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  Speaker 6: Podcasts, Happier Family, try a Happy Families membership because a
• 7:03
  Speaker 6: happy family doesn't just happen. Details at happy Families dot
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  Speaker 6: com dot au.
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  Speaker 5: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for a time
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  Speaker 5: poor parent who just wants answers.
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  Speaker 2: Now.
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  Speaker 3: Dutch parents, they don't put any pressure on their kids.
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  Speaker 2: No pressure.
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  Speaker 4: That means that things often don't happen in a timely fashion.
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  Speaker 3: Things like kids get to explore their own passions. There's
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  Speaker 3: no pressure around school, not making them do homework. They
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  Speaker 3: just get to figure it out for themselves. Don't have
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  Speaker 3: to go straight to university if you want to go
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  Speaker 3: and do a trade or do a community college course
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  Speaker 3: or something.
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  Speaker 2: It take that kind of thing.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, this is sort of sounding like the things
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  Speaker 3: that I've been bleating on about for years.
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  Speaker 2: Right, let the kids figure it out.
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  Speaker 3: And when they've got that level of autonomy, when we
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  Speaker 3: take the pressure off, they tend to do better because
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: they know that it's on them.
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  Speaker 5: One of the things that we've experienced time and time
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  Speaker 5: again is that by giving our children a voice and
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  Speaker 5: allowing them to have an opinion.
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  Speaker 2: They get noisy.
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  Speaker 5: They get noisy, but sometimes things don't happen and as
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  Speaker 5: timely a fashion as we would.
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  Speaker 3: Like, And sometimes things don't happen, like really, we want
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  Speaker 3: our children to do something and they decide that they
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  Speaker 3: don't want to, and sometimes we just say, well, we
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  Speaker 3: don't really have any rules around this, and so sometimes
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  Speaker 3: that slows things right down because then we have to
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  Speaker 3: have a discussion. It doesn't mean, it doesn't mean that
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  Speaker 3: we're going to necessarily get our way, but we're going
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  Speaker 3: to get curious, not furious.
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  Speaker 2: We're going to explore why.
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  Speaker 5: Well, that was what I was about to say. It
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  Speaker 5: doesn't It also doesn't mean that there needs to be
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  Speaker 5: contention in the home as a result of that. Our
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  Speaker 5: children have a different opinion, they have a different perspective.
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  Speaker 5: They're seeing things so differently to us that if we're
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  Speaker 5: able to take a step back and instead of getting furious,
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  Speaker 5: take the time to be curious about why they feel
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  Speaker 5: the way they do, often our kids have actually talked
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  Speaker 5: us around.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think this comes back to that principle
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  Speaker 3: that I talked about from times to time that I
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  Speaker 3: got from Stephen Covey that fast is slow and slow
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  Speaker 3: as fast.
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  Speaker 2: So when you're pushing and pushing and pushing.
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  Speaker 3: You can get the result fast, but you have to
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  Speaker 3: keep on going over and over, and the kids start
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  Speaker 3: to rebel, all the relationship suffers. There's not as much
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  Speaker 3: warmth and engagement in that relationship. It's just harder to
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  Speaker 3: get the relationship working, so fast ends up being slow,
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  Speaker 3: whereas slow doing it the Dutch way, doing the autonomy
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  Speaker 3: supportive way, you might have to explore a lot and
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  Speaker 3: spend a lot of time explaining, and then you empower
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  Speaker 3: and sometimes the kids actually will choose, literally choose not
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  Speaker 3: to go down the safe, healthy, wise path that you're
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  Speaker 3: encouraging them to. Sometimes you might end up doing the
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  Speaker 3: kitchen yourself because they've decided not to participate in family life,
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  Speaker 3: and that will lead to other conversations and other considerations.
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  Speaker 2: But it is hard work.
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  Speaker 3: The kid's got big opinions, and sometimes you just have
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  Speaker 3: to go over it again and again and again.
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  Speaker 2: Sometimes it really is slow.
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  Speaker 5: Even as you're talking, I'm thinking about all of the
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  Speaker 5: times that we've had to have the conversation for the
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  Speaker 5: umpteenth time. But what I love about it again, is
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  Speaker 5: pite of the fact that it takes time, is the
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  Speaker 5: way I'm watching our children's minds develop their ability to
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  Speaker 5: articulate an opinion and to be able to back it
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  Speaker 5: up with data, with their own data, their own life data,
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  Speaker 5: to say why this is a good option and that
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  Speaker 5: they have the confidence to share their opinions.
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  Speaker 2: Even if they do it somewhat clumsy sometimes. Yeah yeah. Now,
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  Speaker 2: these are.
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  Speaker 5: Life skills that they're going to need outside of the house,
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  Speaker 5: and we're better to learn and practice than at home
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  Speaker 5: in a safe environment.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So Dutch parenting also known as autonomy supportive parenting. The
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  Speaker 3: reason we're talking about this is to highlight this is
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  Speaker 3: kind of how we do it, and it's obviously how
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  Speaker 3: they do it in the Netherlands, so I'd never make
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  Speaker 3: any money over there, like I couldn't have a career
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  Speaker 3: as a parenting expert over in Holland because they're already
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  Speaker 3: doing it.
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  Speaker 2: But more than anything, what I.
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  Speaker 3: Want to highlight is that it is hard and challenging,
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  Speaker 3: especially in a culture that doesn't necessarily embrace it. But
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  Speaker 3: there's loads evidence behind it. It seems to be one
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  Speaker 3: of the most powerful ways that we can do it.
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  Speaker 3: And the critical thing here is it teaches kids to
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  Speaker 3: be self reliant. They learn to not rely on you
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  Speaker 3: or me and our opinions of them. They learn to
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  Speaker 3: figure things out for themselves. Because of those careful conversations
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  Speaker 3: that we're having as we create the right structure and
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  Speaker 3: stay involved.
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  Speaker 5: I might have a few extra gray.
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  Speaker 2: Heirs, but might feel a look a little tired.
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  Speaker 5: But I just can see light at the end of
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  Speaker 5: the tunnel. As our children start to build in confidence
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  Speaker 5: and their capacity for life.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, they kind of just figure it out.
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  Speaker 3: We really hope that this has been a helpful conversation
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  Speaker 3: about autonomy supportive parenting, otherwise known at least in this
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  Speaker 3: particular article as Dutch parenting.
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  Speaker 2: We'll link to it in the show notes.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you so much to Justin Rowlan from Bridge Media
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  Speaker 3: he's our producer, and Craig Bruce, our executive producer, for
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  Speaker 3: making the podcast sound as good as it possibly can
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  Speaker 3: while we continue to deal with the stress, hassle, and
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  Speaker 3: drama of trying to move our family.
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  Speaker 2: It feels like this has been going on for a
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  Speaker 2: long time.
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  Speaker 3: Kylie, we really appreciate you listening to the podcast. Thank
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  Speaker 3: you so much for giving your time this morning or
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  Speaker 3: today whatever are you doing your thing to check in
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: and get some ideas about making your family happier. If
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: you'd like more info, you can find it at happy
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: families dot com.
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  Speaker 2: Today you