Latest / The Dr Louise Newson Podcast / 18 - Hayley and Jay: a 30-year battle for the right diagnosis

Transcript

18 - Hayley and Jay: a 30-year battle for the right diagnosis · The Dr Louise Newson Podcast

0:00
This is the most impactful podcast I've done.
0:03
I want you to listen to it, but I also want you to share it with
0:07
as many people as possible. I interviewed Jay and Hayley, so
0:12
Jay is Hayley's son. Hayley has been in and out of
0:15
psychiatric hospitals for 27 years.
0:19
She's had post Natal psychosis. She's had PMDD, premenstrual
0:24
dysphoric disorder, she's had awful depression treatment,
0:29
resistant depression, she's had various antidepressants,
0:34
numerous antipsychotics, she's had ECT, electroconvulsive
0:39
therapy, She's also been told she might have dementia and
0:44
she's taken to alcohol for many, many years.
0:48
But because she was also menopausal, I managed to
0:51
persuade the psychiatrist to prescribe some hormones for her.
0:55
And you will see and hear the difference.
0:58
We need to get this story out more.
0:59
And I'm really grateful that they came today.
1:02
But I want you to not just listen to it, but reflect on it
1:06
and think about the injustice of women who aren't so lucky as
1:10
Hayley because they don't have a son like Jay.
1:13
Enjoy it, Hayley, Jay, both of you.
1:17
I've not done a double podcast before.
1:19
Like I feel like you're almost interviewing me, but it's great.
1:22
I am, I am really excited about this podcast.
1:26
I don't want to put pressure on you, but I've been thinking
1:28
about this for a long time and the timing feels right.
1:33
And like there's, there's quite a few patients that are really
1:38
memorable. But I am never, ever going to
1:40
forget both of you. And I'm never going to forget
1:43
that e-mail that I got from you. So I'm just really grateful that
1:47
you're here to share your experience because, well, lots
1:51
of reasons. But the big thing that's going
1:53
to change health of women going forwards is women helping women
1:57
and women talking and men talking and others talking.
2:01
It's not about me. It's not about what I think,
2:04
it's not about what I've read. It's about real people.
2:08
And I went into medicine to help people, not patients, but
2:11
people. And I'm very privileged that I
2:14
can do that in my job, but it's still somehow not getting
2:17
through. Hormones are just thought of
2:20
something for hot flashes, something that might help a
2:22
little bit. But I often say to people that
2:26
the work I do is transformational and they look
2:29
at me like I'm a bit weird. But you have been transformed
2:33
and I just want others to hear about it.
2:37
So, Jay, tell me about the e-mail that you sent me it.
2:41
Was the Instagram message first, wasn't it?
2:43
But that's, yeah, so we, I'd heard from a family friend, she
2:49
said, I've been listening to Louise's podcast and give it a,
2:54
give it a listen. So at that point, my mum was
2:57
sort of three month, 3-4 months into her hospital admission.
3:02
And I gave the podcast a listen and everything just really
3:05
resonated and it it all made sense.
3:08
I sent the sent the message on Instagram and you replied that
3:14
was bank holiday, May bank holiday and you replied straight
3:18
away. We followed it up with an e-mail
3:20
to just explain my mum's story as as quickly as I could.
3:24
And then we jumped on the jumped on a call and started working
3:29
straight away to to get my mum the hormones that that she
3:32
needed. Yeah, so when you spoke to me,
3:37
you told me about your mum and obviously Hayley, you, you were
3:41
in a hospital, but it was a psychiatric hospital.
3:45
Yeah, yeah. But you've not just been in a
3:47
psychiatric hospital for three months, have you?
3:50
No, no, I've been in them since 1995.
3:59
That's a long time, isn't it? Because when you were growing
4:03
up, you were. You're fit.
4:05
Well, you're working you. Yeah, yeah.
4:08
Quite a sparkle in your eyes. And lightness, yeah, a bit too
4:12
overconfident at times I would say.
4:18
But yeah, it was after. Well, the first depression and
4:22
bit of a psychosis was when I was 17, but I had had a
4:26
termination when I was in my late sixteens.
4:30
Right. So whether again that was Yeah.
4:34
Yeah, and then you've got three children now, and when you're
4:39
pregnant, did you feel OK mentally?
4:41
Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, I did.
4:44
Yeah. But then after having the
4:45
babies. You.
4:47
Dropped, didn't it? Yeah it did and with my first
4:53
one Christian, it wasn't as bad. Lewis sorry it wasn't as bad but
4:58
when he was maybe 8 months I felt low and depressed after
5:04
Christian in 95. He was born in May.
5:08
In October, Halloween that year I decided people were out to
5:14
kill me and just horrendous thoughts and the doc.
5:19
I tried to run up the road in my underwear to escape the house
5:23
and just really totally lost it. So were you sectioned then?
5:28
I wasn't sectioned. I went into a Sheffield hospital
5:32
on the psychiatric ward but I was in there for 2 1/2 weeks,
5:37
then I was let back out, but it's the first time I was put on
5:40
antipsychotics. Right.
5:43
Do you do you remember being put on the antipsychotics?
5:46
Not really, because a lot of the time when I'm in hospital until
5:50
I'm starting to feel better, it's all a kind of fuzzy blur.
5:55
It, it's, it's not. I don't remember all of it that
6:00
well, but and then of course after Jay in 2000, he was only
6:07
two months and it all happened and flared up again.
6:10
And then I was in hospital for 2 1/2 months on a different ward.
6:16
But they were trying to get me into the Nottingham mother and
6:19
baby unit but there wasn't any room.
6:22
So again, I was kind of separated from him and family
6:27
and friends helped out, but. Did anyone talk about hormones
6:32
then? Never never ever mentioned that
6:35
time I did have ECT again for the first time.
6:38
So that's electroconvulsive therapy.
6:40
Do you remember having that or them talking about it?
6:44
Yeah, because I can remember them saying they didn't do it at
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the Unit Hours Inn, which was near the Edge, Sheffield.
6:51
They did it at the Northern General Hospital, so I can
6:54
remember going in the taxi with the nurse to have it done and it
7:00
it did work really quickly. I thought, oh, brilliant, I'm
7:05
better again. But looking back, I wasn't
7:10
properly better, if you know what I mean.
7:12
I think I was fighting to get off the ward.
7:14
So displaying it that I was, yeah, I'm fine.
7:18
I can kind of go home now. But I'd been on that admission.
7:24
I'd been very, very high and then kind of slumped very low
7:29
and I fed all three and with Jay I was still like lactating on
7:34
the ward and everything. I think my hormones were all
7:37
over. Yeah, but but again, nothing was
7:41
ever picked up on or suggested or they just called it post
7:48
pupill psychosis or postpartum. But and then you, you had your
7:56
periods after they came back, but you you always felt
8:00
something wasn't right before your periods.
8:02
Didn't you? Yeah, yeah.
8:04
How? How did that affect you?
8:06
Just very angry and panicky and panic attacks.
8:11
And I mean, on one occasion, and I hate that Jay wasn't aware of
8:18
that. I don't think he was even born,
8:20
but I threw a wine bottle through a window in the kitchen
8:24
in like just a rage. I don't think Christian can
8:28
remember that, but Lewis can remember that.
8:30
That's hard, isn't it? When a period came, I'd think,
8:33
oh thank God for that. And I said that to Baz, my
8:36
ex-husband last night, probably because of that.
8:39
You know, when you wake up the next morning and relive if
8:43
you've kicked off and caused a scene.
8:45
And so I think had years ago, if I'd been given things, I might
8:52
have calmed down and not had like a volatile temper.
8:57
But when you went because you've seen so many psychiatrists,
9:00
haven't you? Oh.
9:00
Gosh, Yeah, yeah. Did anyone talk to you about
9:03
your periods or how? Never.
9:05
Ever. Does that surprise you?
9:07
What you know now? Absolutely.
9:10
Yeah, Yeah. Yeah.
9:13
Yeah, definitely. But as Jay was saying, when he
9:19
this time tried to get help, it took him a while for them to
9:23
even listen to him and kind of say, well, fair enough, we'll
9:27
give it a try. And that was the thing, I mean,
9:31
we'd got, we'd been told at that point some 30 years later that
9:35
you were treatment resistant to antipsychotics, antidepressants,
9:39
which that was the first time from a psychiatrist would, you
9:42
know, they admitted that. So we tried the ECT on the basis
9:46
it had worked years ago, but you had 12 sessions of that and, you
9:50
know, it failed to do anything. So at that point I was like, you
9:54
know what, what else? Because you you were put on
9:56
Clozapine, which you know, they said if.
9:58
Clozapine left me just very not in the real world, just cat.
10:05
I was on. You said Hayley's world, didn't
10:07
you? Because I was so it.
10:09
Was it what, you, you were just numb to everything.
10:11
You know you, you don't remember anything.
10:12
No, I mean clozapine. Since being on the HRT, my mum
10:18
and dad died, both within the last five years.
10:21
I didn't attend either of the funerals because I couldn't,
10:24
which I'll regret for the rest of my life, but there's nothing
10:26
I can do about it. The HRT I've actually cried,
10:31
which I've not done for years, so.
10:36
And it's just amazing to think because before I cried at the
10:40
drop of a hat, you know, if something was sad, I'd be the
10:43
first one to cry. But for years I've just been so
10:46
cold and flat. Yeah, and that's very
10:49
interesting because a lot of people say that when they're on
10:52
medications or antidepressants or antipsychotics that they feel
10:55
numb. So they don't experience
10:58
sadness, but they don't experience joy.
11:01
But sometimes it's not a bad thing to feel sad and to be
11:06
upset because then when you feel happy, it's even best but to be
11:10
this sort of flat lining. But for you today, like, I mean,
11:14
I feel really bad asking you these questions, but I just want
11:17
people to try and understand because you've been affected.
11:20
You've been in and out of psychiatric hospitals, you've
11:22
seen countless psychiatrists, your life's obviously been
11:26
affected. But but for you, you, you've not
11:29
really grown up with your mum being at home, have you?
11:32
No, it hasn't been. Yeah, my mum's been absent a lot
11:35
of the years and whilst, you know, when you have been well
11:39
and at all times you've, you know, we know you've loved us
11:42
and we've all three of me and my brothers have have turned out to
11:46
be kind, caring people. But yeah, it's been, it's been
11:52
very hard. And I was always sort of, you
11:54
know, comparing my mum to, to other mums growing up because I
11:57
was like, why? Why can my mum not be, you know,
12:00
working and well and you know, now it really frustrates me that
12:05
all along, you know, had had my mum been given, you know, a
12:09
hormones back after after childbirth that I would have,
12:13
you know, we may have, you know, my mum would have most likely
12:16
kept her career, you know. I kind of turned to drink to
12:21
mask a lot of it as well, which the boys saw and then your dad
12:26
did as well. So that wasn't a healthy thing
12:29
going on. But Jay from being, I mean, I
12:33
remember watching him at 11 years of age wrapping his own
12:37
Christmas presents because I were like dithering round and,
12:41
you know, it's just awful things like that.
12:44
And because the other two were older than Jay and went off to
12:47
uni, Jay became the pair and and is very mature for his years and
12:54
I think because of that. I think, yeah, it's looking back
12:59
now, it's had its positives, but it could have easily gone the
13:02
other way. Completely strong.
13:04
And I was talking this about this earlier actually to my
13:07
husband that I worry about the effects of changing hormones,
13:12
not just on the person, obviously I worry about people,
13:15
but it's, it's the ripple effect.
13:17
So it's, it's partners. We know that we know divorce
13:20
rates increase, but it's the children.
13:23
And I worry about domestic abuse.
13:25
I worry about what children are seeing and listening to and
13:29
hearing and having to put up with.
13:31
Because how do you ask? How do you ask for help when
13:33
you're 11 and you're wrapping up your own presents and your mum's
13:36
drinking? I mean, I was, I was fortunate
13:38
that I'd, I'd got my Nan and your, your mum.
13:42
She really she. Really did help but similarly,
13:46
you know you have recollections that it it does get passed down
13:51
this this my. Mum used to be terrible around a
13:54
period and yeah, and we'd kind of, she'd go into like a little
13:59
zombie mode and, and we all thought because at the time she
14:03
was having some sleeping tablets as kids, we decided, oh, she was
14:08
taking them all at once and it was making her.
14:10
But looking back, she did well as she got older, didn't she?
14:15
She was a grandma. She did she.
14:19
Yeah. You see, we see that though,
14:21
because sometimes it's a change in hormone levels, not just the
14:25
absolute level. Do you see what?
14:26
To me, because the brain likes things the same.
14:29
So when you're having your periods, your hormone levels
14:32
drop before every period. Some people don't notice the
14:35
change. Lots of people just feel a bit
14:37
flat, a bit fed up. But some people feel really bad,
14:41
as you know. But it's the same in the
14:43
perimenopause, when your hormones are fluctuating like
14:46
that, that's where people can really have a worse time.
14:50
And in menopause, if hormone levels are low with time, the
14:53
brain might accommodate and change.
14:56
And I was reading a book, I am a bit strange from 1871, long time
15:04
ago by a physician called Edward Tilt.
15:06
And he wrote about the mental health component of the crisis
15:10
time before the change. So he they didn't know about
15:14
hormones, but they knew when period stopped women come down.
15:18
And he was talking about prisons actually.
15:21
And he was writing that some women turn to crime because of
15:25
the way they feel. And we know that still now.
15:28
But he said some women some 20 years later have been released
15:32
from prison and they have not committed another crime.
15:36
Then they've calmed down. And I thought, actually, you can
15:39
see that because their hormones have declined.
15:42
And he was so frustrated the way he wrote, because he wanted to
15:45
help people. He was giving them Belladonna.
15:47
He was giving them more. He didn't know what to do, but
15:51
he got it and understood it. Whereas now it's like it's
15:54
people don't even associate mental health with the hormones
15:59
and, and periods. And it's so obvious when you
16:02
sort of know what's happening. But so we spoke, didn't we?
16:08
And you reached out and you were in an NHS hospital and so we
16:12
managed to persuade the psychiatrist to prescribe,
16:15
didn't we? We did eventually, I mean, at
16:17
the first, I remember the, the ward around and I sort of said,
16:21
I've been listening to Doctor Neilson's podcast and you know,
16:26
I'm questioning if this could be hormones.
16:28
And the, the answer was this is not hormones.
16:32
Tell me how you think it's hormones.
16:33
And I said, well, my mum generally got home well when
16:36
she'd had her children and they said yes, but then it happened
16:39
after the, after your children. I said yes, and there's a cycle
16:42
there. That was at the time I think
16:44
you'd just finished your ECT as well.
16:47
So yeah, we carried on persuading and fortunately there
16:51
was a female psychiatrist that you spoke to and eventually, you
16:56
know, they, they agreed the, the, the lowest doses if you
16:59
like with, with testosterone added as as well.
17:04
Yeah, I got the gel and the patches, didn't I?
17:08
And the and the tablet on the night that you.
17:10
Have I think it just one patch to begin with and then but I was
17:14
kind of so in La La land that I know when they thought they
17:18
might. Have dementia as well, didn't
17:19
they that they? Apparently on a scan there is a
17:22
little bit of. What is it called?
17:25
They, they did a scan and it was showing some grey area and, you
17:29
know, in a wardrobe they said there's a chance your mum's got
17:32
frontal temporal dementia. To which I told the family and
17:35
we were kind of, you know, it, we thought, I thought this was,
17:40
you know, this was the final part of the, of the illness and
17:43
I really didn't expect anything to recover from there.
17:47
Obviously it was, it was being questioned at the time.
17:51
But I, I do feel that if we hadn't got you on hormones, you
17:56
would have followed the pattern of what is dementia.
17:58
You know you're you're unable to communicate.
18:00
Social workers and whatever were kind of pushing for assisted
18:04
living and showing me videos where, I mean, I look a lot
18:08
older than my age. I'm like 57 1/2.
18:11
And it they were all about late 70s, eighties and I didn't want
18:16
to go and live in assisted living and, and, you know, be
18:20
like kind of popped into that box by the but I.
18:24
Remember talking to the psychiatrist and saying look,
18:28
you know you're in your 50s so you're menopausal.
18:31
I have no idea how much is related.
18:33
It seems like some of it probably is because I've seen a
18:35
lot of people in the past and the story like you say, the post
18:39
Natal psychosis, the PMDD, some of it's going to be related to
18:44
hormones. But for your bones, for your
18:47
heart, there are still benefits. The guidelines are clear that we
18:51
should be giving hormones first line for women if they want them
18:57
for menopause. So I said you can carry on with
19:00
your psychiatric, but you can carry on with the dementia bit.
19:03
But I just feel that you should to prescribe in Ferblater.
19:06
She did prescribe them and they did blood tests actually.
19:09
Didn't they? And.
19:10
We could see that you weren't absorbing them very much.
19:13
And then I thought they'd never give testosterone, but they did
19:16
give testosterone. And we know and it's been known
19:20
for many years, decades, that testosterone can improve
19:24
well-being and can improve mental health as well as
19:27
physical health. So and then we had to wait
19:30
because we have to wait with hormones.
19:32
And that's the hardest thing because I'm quite impatient.
19:34
And we were in on a holiday where I took my children to
19:37
Barcelona at Christmas time and they were in a flea market, like
19:40
finding tops for like a euro. I'm really excited.
19:42
So I'm obviously on my phone and I started crying and they were
19:47
like, what's going on, Mummy And I just had this picture.
19:50
She said what? And I showed them and it was you
19:52
with a Christmas. Cracker and do you?
19:54
Remember, you showed me the picture and they were like,
19:58
yeah, it's a lady, I said. I said no, but her son hasn't
20:02
had a Christmas like this before.
20:04
No, it's not because most of the Christmases to get through
20:08
Christmas and panic about, Oh my God, it's Christmas, I'll never
20:11
cope. Obviously extra drink was
20:15
brought into the house because it was Christmas.
20:18
So that would be me kind of every Christmas Eve afternoon
20:21
thinking I'm not having a drink tonight because I want to be
20:24
aware of Christmas morning and I'd just go and get sloshed and
20:28
think, yeah, so yeah. So and then we've obviously
20:35
become quite close just to help and things have just got Beth
20:41
and I, I. Fingers crossed.
20:43
I always panic, but yeah, well, no.
20:45
One knows the future like Lester today.
20:48
And yeah, you know, I hope you don't mind the same.
20:51
But you know, you both went to see Robbie Williams.
20:53
Like who would have thought even a year ago that would have
20:56
happened? Never ever would it have
20:59
happened. And I went with both Christian
21:02
and Jay. We stayed in London a couple of
21:05
nights at Christians. We walked down massive stairs to
21:09
get to the gig and I get really bad Vertigo and it was just
21:15
brilliant. All of that stood amongst, you
21:18
know, in the quite in the middle of the standing stadium with,
21:22
you know, 50-60 thousand people around you.
21:24
And, and eventually he got into it and dancing and singing to
21:28
the music. And it's, yeah, it's just, you
21:30
know, when you look back a year ago.
21:33
I can't believe, I mean, I live in fear of going back on the
21:36
wards. I hate them.
21:38
The first two or three times I went in, I was much, much
21:41
younger and it was like, because I was so high, it was like being
21:47
in a club with your friends type thing who you'd make friends
21:50
with, with the patients and but they're not nice places.
21:56
No, they're not. I mean, I've done a lot of
21:58
psychiatry in Manchester, quite in the city and, and actually
22:03
that was in the 9, early 90s. But then about 18 months ago I
22:08
went to go and visit one of my patients who was when there was
22:12
an HRT shortage. Her GP said you don't need it
22:15
anymore and her husband reached out to me and said I'm really
22:19
worried about her so I jumped in the car and she was so freaked
22:23
out seeing me she didn't expect me to do it was on a Sunday.
22:26
Yeah. But I was looking around, I was
22:28
thinking, God, this could be in 1992.
22:30
Like it just, it's so sparse. Do a wardrobe once a week, but
22:35
what you supposed to do the rest of the time?
22:37
It's it was awful. And, and I'd just like to add,
22:40
I've spoken to her recently and she is amazing, but it's taken a
22:43
long time with her because she didn't want the testosterone.
22:46
And in my clinical experience, it's the testosterone that makes
22:49
the biggest difference. And a lot of women I think have
22:52
been low in testosterone for a long time.
22:55
So it takes a while for all those cells to work and
22:58
regenerate, especially in the brain.
23:01
But you know, you're not drinking, have you?
23:04
I've had the odd one, but yeah, not No, I'm not, no, no, but
23:09
that's. Huge, though, Haley, to have
23:12
gone through, you know I've. Come off cigarettes again, I've
23:16
been having the odd one but I'm trying to get off them totally.
23:20
But yeah, drink controlled me for years along with my hormones
23:25
and maybe some mental health. What I do have or hasn't being
23:30
treated as it should have been so.
23:35
It's amazing. And, you know, there will be
23:37
people listening to this thinking, yeah, they're going to
23:39
say it's hormones, of course they are.
23:41
But there's nothing else that's changed.
23:44
No, absolutely we've not. Changed.
23:45
We are going to start gradually reducing some of your other
23:48
medication, but we haven't changed anything.
23:51
And those, those psychiatric medications are the ones that
23:55
you've been on for, you know, given that they have been
24:00
changed, but the, you know, the sertraline, olanzapine, lithium,
24:03
you've been on them. 2004. So you know.
24:07
Yeah. I don't.
24:09
I don't believe it's the. Cyclanzapine, the people who
24:13
come to give me my meds, they, they'll come in and they'll put
24:19
them in a pot for me at say half seven, 7:45, and they'll say
24:23
you're taking them all they used to do.
24:25
And I'd say, well, no, because if I take them now, I'll be in
24:28
bed for like 8:00. So I'll wait and take them at
24:32
1011 o'clock. Then I get the munchies, then
24:36
I'm in the kitchen raiding for food.
24:38
Like really being hungry. And the restless legs.
24:41
That was the other night they said I hate, I get it gets to
24:44
ten 11:00 and your legs are restless and that doesn't happen
24:48
through the day when Yeah. You know.
24:50
Yeah. I mean, they have side effects.
24:52
We know they have side effects because they're chemicals,
24:55
aren't they? And they can be beneficial as
24:57
well. But help, don't get me wrong, by
25:00
not running up the road in my underwear.
25:02
That's good. Yeah.
25:05
And this is, this is what I'm trying to really let people
25:07
understand that lots of medications have a role, but we
25:12
can't keep ignoring hormones. You know, you might always need
25:15
some psychiatric medication. I have no way of knowing, of
25:18
course, that we have no way. We can't go back in the past and
25:21
say if you'd always had hormones, would you have needed?
25:24
We don't know. But what we do know now is that
25:28
you are so much better. And it's been a while.
25:31
It's not just a quick thing and it's a gradual improvement which
25:35
has just been amazing to watch and see.
25:38
But the biggest thing that really upsets me is that you
25:41
still can't get the hormones that you need from the NHS.
25:45
Absolutely. And but you can get all these
25:48
other drugs, so you can get lithium, you can get olanzapine,
25:53
but why can't you get your natural hormones?
25:55
I don't. I just don't get it.
25:58
And I go from being really sad to really cross because it's
26:03
2025. We've known for decades that
26:07
hormones help with mental health.
26:09
We know that some women need different doses just to absorb
26:12
through the skin. And we know that you're better.
26:15
And you know, you're such an advocate for your mum and you're
26:18
going through so many layers of complaints and problems.
26:23
Absolutely. But it doesn't.
26:24
It doesn't feel right, does it? No.
26:26
And it's really frustrating and unfortunately, you know, we've
26:28
had the help from you where you know, I get, you know, you
26:34
respond to me within generally a few hours and you know, and so
26:39
warm to us. You know, my mum says you, we're
26:42
comfortable when we're, when we're speaking to you.
26:45
But when I speak to unfortunately some of the GPS
26:47
and whatnot, they're very cold with us.
26:50
And you know, we don't get the, how are you?
26:52
We didn't, we don't get that. It's kind of you can't have your
26:55
hormones. I'm following the guides.
26:56
They're a bit knapped off that they can't admit.
26:58
Yeah, people do well on HRT. You know what I mean?
27:03
My husband's a reconstructive surgeon.
27:06
And years ago, as a training to be a doctor, you do like a minor
27:10
injuries course. So you learn, like, how to do
27:12
little sutures, you know, just like tiny bumps and bumps
27:15
remove. And I was like an little kid
27:17
coming home from school to show him my work.
27:19
And there was this little patchwork thing and I could show
27:21
him. He looked at it and he went,
27:23
that was the wrong suturing material.
27:25
That's a mess. I hope you never do that in real
27:27
life. And I could have got really
27:28
annoyed, but he was right actually.
27:30
And he is amazing as a surgeon. But I will respect him and say,
27:35
wow, isn't that incredible? You can do that.
27:37
And I can't. Like, he's fine.
27:40
We're allowed to be different and we're allowed to learn.
27:42
And you know, when I was doing psychiatry, I didn't know about
27:46
hormones, but I lived with regret that I didn't.
27:49
But I can't change the past. But you.
27:52
You. Learn and it's just this sort of
27:54
blanket. No, you can't.
27:56
I mean, you'd, you'd send a letter, you'd given your
28:00
personal phone number. And then when I eventually got
28:03
to speak to the GP, you know, they said, well, Louise is a
28:07
specialist. I'm not, I do a bit of
28:09
everything. And I said, so why aren't you a
28:11
responder? You know, why can't you respond
28:13
to Louise and learn, learn from, you know, she's a colleague,
28:16
isn't she to, to you? And, and it's sharing, learning
28:20
and educating. And then, you know, like I say
28:24
that you said to me maybe a mum's illness has always been
28:28
hormones and, you know, just set it off the cuff.
28:30
And I'm kind of like, yes, but that's 30 years of suffering
28:33
because of you know, and it does, it does frustrate me that.
28:37
And I appreciate there's not been anybody like you to
28:40
advocate for, for this, but. It's a really sad situation.
28:46
I mean I've, I stopped driving what, 5-6 years ago because in
28:51
my mind I kept thinking I just want to drive into an oncoming
28:53
lorry and torturing myself. But then in later years when I
28:59
got my grandchildren, I began having thoughts about my
29:02
grandchildren, so I didn't want to be around them, which they've
29:06
been to stay for two weekends. And they want to come more.
29:10
Yeah, yeah. But I mean, they're a handful,
29:15
man. I'm a lot older than when my
29:16
kids were little, but you boys were quite well behaved.
29:19
I was lucky in that sense. But you'd love being with them,
29:23
which absolutely I used to. Work in play groups when I was
29:26
younger and then suddenly I couldn't be their children.
29:29
I didn't want to be because of horrible thoughts out what were
29:31
manifesting and fingers crossed they're kind of going so.
29:37
Yeah, it's amazing. But you know, you are just two
29:42
people out of how many globally and that's what we've got to try
29:47
and change for future generations.
29:50
So I'm really grateful, I really am, honestly, because I know
29:54
it's massive thing that you've come here, both of you to share,
29:57
but I know that you've done it to help others and that's really
30:00
important. So I usually ask for three take
30:04
home tips, but I can't ask for 1 1/2 each.
30:07
So I'm going to ask for two each if that's OK.
30:10
So I'll ask she's like who do you want to go?
30:12
Who wants to go first? Do you want to go first?
30:15
Bring it on. Whatever you're feeling, please
30:18
don't keep it to yourself. Please go to GP and you know,
30:24
really plead with them for help and don't just stay at home.
30:29
Jay laughs when I say my dressing gown days because I
30:32
rarely bathed. I didn't want to get dressed and
30:36
totally let myself go. And the other one, Please don't
30:42
turn to alcohol because though at the time you're drinking it,
30:45
you think it's helping and masking things.
30:48
It's not. It's just leaving you feeling
30:50
worse the next day. Whittling.
30:53
Am I over the limit driving the boys to school and just don't?
30:58
Just please help yourself and get to the doctors.
31:03
Thank you, J. I've spoke to multiple men now
31:08
at work, etcetera, have said that that's what my mum suffered
31:12
with. That's or that's what my wife
31:14
suffered with after her children.
31:16
We need to talk about it more and and remove the taboo from
31:20
it. Accept that, you know, if you've
31:22
got a headache you take paracetamol and if you've got a
31:26
hormone imbalance, you need your hormones and it yeah, my second,
31:29
my second advice would be, you know, if it is post Natal, I
31:35
understand that the the first line treatment is still to be
31:39
put on antidepressants, antipsychotics, mood
31:41
stabilizers. Question, is it hormones?
31:44
Because, you know, from my mum's experience, I feel like a lot of
31:49
the time it is. Great advice, great tips and
31:52
just thank. Great help from you.
31:54
Thank you very, very much. You've, you've saved my mum's
31:58
life and that's, you know. Always tells me that be like
32:01
Louise. No, you have, you've saved my
32:04
mum's life and now you know, we're, I think we're on the
32:07
mission with you to save other, other women's lives.
32:10
But we're. Going to have our work cut out,
32:13
but that's all right. Thank you.
32:16
Thank. You.
32:16
Thank you.