Latest / Best of Business / Bosses Unfiltered - Episode 6: Angus Simms

Transcript

Bosses Unfiltered - Episode 6: Angus Simms · Best of Business

0:01
Speaker 1: The big winds and the big losses, the hurdles, the pivots,
0:06
Speaker 1: and the emotions, raw and honest, New Zealand's great business
0:11
Speaker 1: minds like you've never heard them before. This is Bosses
0:14
Speaker 1: Unfiltered with Kerry Woodham used talksed be.
0:18
Speaker 2: New Zealand produces enough food to feed forty million people.
0:23
Speaker 2: Some of it we consume, some we export, but are staggering.
0:26
Speaker 2: Thirty percent of the food we make or grower is wasted.
0:30
Speaker 2: Fruit and veggies need to look a certain way to
0:32
Speaker 2: make it onto supermarket shelves or they get tossed. Angus
0:36
Speaker 2: Sims and his partner Katie Jackson started Wonky Box three
0:40
Speaker 2: years ago, a subscription food box full of wonky fruit
0:44
Speaker 2: and veg that's still a bit to your door. Their
0:47
Speaker 2: business has grown way bigger and faster than they ever thought,
0:50
Speaker 2: but it has not been smooth sailing. I'm Kerrie Woodhem.
0:54
Speaker 2: This is Bosses Unfiltered, a podcast series about what it's
0:57
Speaker 2: really like to run a business.
0:59
Speaker 3: Hello Anger, Hi Kerry.
1:01
Speaker 2: Did you imagine that an idea that came to you
1:04
Speaker 2: when you were out picking fruit in the fields would
1:08
Speaker 2: grow into a sustainable business.
1:11
Speaker 4: We had that intention from day one. I guess what
1:16
Speaker 4: we didn't understand was necessarily the scale, and I guess
1:21
Speaker 4: that was the hardest part to always pinpoint and probably
1:24
Speaker 4: one of our biggest challenges that I'm sure we'll go
1:26
Speaker 4: into was navigating that growth and the ultimately the subscriber
1:31
Speaker 4: number and at the end of the day, trying to
1:33
Speaker 4: accommodate however many boxes we were doing week to week
1:36
Speaker 4: and with that growth. Yeah, Look, there were plenty of
1:40
Speaker 4: surprises along their way, but I think we initially set
1:43
Speaker 4: ourselves up to create something that was very much purpose,
1:47
Speaker 4: purposeful and sustainable.
1:49
Speaker 2: Okay, because your backstory of coming here, you were doing
1:53
Speaker 2: you were over in England, came back to New Zealand
1:56
Speaker 2: during the COVID years yep, and then you were picking
1:59
Speaker 2: for it. It sounds like a kind of care free existence,
2:02
Speaker 2: not like would be entrepreneur business people.
2:06
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:06
Speaker 4: No, absolutely, and it was it was Yeah, I mean,
2:10
Speaker 4: we we you know, it was somewhat cliche. I suppose
2:12
Speaker 4: at the end of the day. We did make the
2:14
Speaker 4: break to come back to New Zealand at the time
2:16
Speaker 4: when we'd been through a lockdown through in the UK,
2:19
Speaker 4: the first one at least, and my family and where
2:22
Speaker 4: I grew up or part of my childhood was in
2:24
Speaker 4: was in New Zealand, and at some point Katie we
2:26
Speaker 4: wanted to you know, I wanted to bring her down
2:29
Speaker 4: here and show her the ropes down here and so on,
2:31
Speaker 4: and we did. We wanted that freedom, We wanted to
2:34
Speaker 4: escape the UK at that at that very point in time,
2:36
Speaker 4: came down here and at that point, you know, New
2:40
Speaker 4: Zealand was was still was, you know, wasn't lockdown, and
2:44
Speaker 4: everyone was was doing their thing down here, and it
2:46
Speaker 4: was a breath of fresh air to get back into
2:48
Speaker 4: that routine again. And we did, you know, we got
2:52
Speaker 4: we got the Campa van. We bought that with the
2:54
Speaker 4: savings that we'd had in the UK having worked at
2:56
Speaker 4: our jobs for many, many years, and started try traveling
3:00
Speaker 4: around New Zealand, showing Katie all the wonderful things that
3:03
Speaker 4: New Zealand has to offer. But like most travelers, at
3:07
Speaker 4: some point, we probably overdid it and we were doing
3:10
Speaker 4: it for far too long and we ran out of money,
3:13
Speaker 4: and naturally when we were running out of money, we
3:15
Speaker 4: were kind of on the final stretch. So we started
3:17
Speaker 4: in Auckland. We traveled the North Island for a couple
3:20
Speaker 4: of months, then we did the South Island where we
3:22
Speaker 4: actually stayed put for about six odd months, and then
3:25
Speaker 4: when we were coming back up around Nelson was when
3:28
Speaker 4: we decided, do you know what, we need to get
3:30
Speaker 4: back into some work. And we didn't know what we
3:32
Speaker 4: wanted to do, so we were on the start of
3:35
Speaker 4: summer at that point, and we thought, let's go do
3:39
Speaker 4: let's go do some picking, let's go do some you know,
3:41
Speaker 4: some harvest prep and things like that, things that we
3:44
Speaker 4: never really thought we would get stuck into, but just
3:47
Speaker 4: kind of like a somewhat care free job and still
3:49
Speaker 4: live in that lifestyle in our van. And that's where
3:51
Speaker 4: we were exposed to the issue, yeah.
3:54
Speaker 2: Of the food wastage of food that wasn't perfect, fruit
3:57
Speaker 2: that wasn't.
3:57
Speaker 4: Perfect, totally yep, yep, no. And we it wasn't just us,
4:02
Speaker 4: We had friends as well down there. At that point.
4:04
Speaker 4: We'd made enough friends that were working at other orchards
4:07
Speaker 4: and so on, and hearing stories from neighboring orchards and
4:11
Speaker 4: neighboring growers as well who were facing that same problem.
4:14
Speaker 4: We kind of thought, look, there's perfectly good food here
4:17
Speaker 4: that could be consumed or or at least provided to
4:22
Speaker 4: consumers in a better way.
4:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, so did you ask the questions where does this
4:27
Speaker 2: where does this fruit go?
4:28
Speaker 4: We were seeing it, Yeah, it was just getting dumped,
4:30
Speaker 4: like you know, it was either not being picked in
4:32
Speaker 4: the tree or it had been picked and then dumped.
4:36
Speaker 4: What we've learned since then, obviously on our journey, is
4:38
Speaker 4: that there's there's particular food waste moments in the supply chain,
4:44
Speaker 4: and I suppose from experience working on some of these farms,
4:48
Speaker 4: we were experiencing a lot of pre harvest waste. So
4:51
Speaker 4: that's when growers can anticipate products that might not necessarily
4:55
Speaker 4: meet specifications. So in that regard, they actually saved themselves
4:59
Speaker 4: the time resource and just not pick it at all. Ultimately,
5:02
Speaker 4: what happens to that fruit or that produce is that
5:05
Speaker 4: it's left there and it will fall from the tree,
5:07
Speaker 4: or it will rot and be used to mulch back
5:09
Speaker 4: in to the ground when the tractor mows it and
5:12
Speaker 4: so on. So that's one particular area, or the often
5:15
Speaker 4: more frustrating area is when the growers actually harvested the product.
5:19
Speaker 4: So he's gone about, he's you know, the team have
5:21
Speaker 4: been through it, they've pulled, they've harvested from the from
5:24
Speaker 4: the trees or from the plants, they've taken that to
5:27
Speaker 4: the pack house to grade, and then from their post harvest,
5:31
Speaker 4: if you like, they've realized that X amount of product
5:33
Speaker 4: that they've harvested can't be sent to the local market
5:36
Speaker 4: and things like that. So, yeah, it was there where
5:39
Speaker 4: we got insights into into where in the supply chain
5:42
Speaker 4: the problems were happening.
5:44
Speaker 3: Yeah.
5:45
Speaker 2: Most people, though, who were doing the pecking, go back
5:48
Speaker 2: to the camper van and think, God, it's what a
5:50
Speaker 2: bloody waste, and then you'd have a drink and that
5:53
Speaker 2: would be the end of it. Why did you think
5:54
Speaker 2: you could make money out of it?
5:57
Speaker 4: I guess I guess what we were we and don't
6:00
Speaker 4: get me wrong, we were doing that. We were definitely
6:04
Speaker 4: going back and the culture that those places provide was awesome,
6:07
Speaker 4: without a doubt, and I suppose we were Ultimately I was.
6:14
Speaker 4: I don't know whether it was me in particular. I
6:16
Speaker 4: was just so interested in understanding the perspective from the grower,
6:20
Speaker 4: So I used to, I suppose, go about a lot
6:22
Speaker 4: more than most other workers and ask probably far too
6:27
Speaker 4: many questions, nosing questions, that is, with the grower and
6:30
Speaker 4: show genuine interest because I actually was interested. And I
6:33
Speaker 4: guess it was the frustrations that we were seeing from
6:35
Speaker 4: these these business owners at the end of the day
6:37
Speaker 4: that really drove us to think, how can we or
6:41
Speaker 4: can we create more value in this product for the
6:44
Speaker 4: grower at the end of the day. And yeah, like
6:48
Speaker 4: you know, we didn't really know at the time, but
6:50
Speaker 4: when we left there and went to Wellington, we were
6:52
Speaker 4: kind of pretty set to do some more homework.
6:55
Speaker 2: In it and start a business.
6:56
Speaker 3: And start a business.
6:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, so right from the start you thought you could
6:59
Speaker 2: turn it into business.
7:00
Speaker 4: We thought so, Like you know, we'd seen in New
7:04
Speaker 4: Zealand in the local market, we'd seen the likes of
7:07
Speaker 4: the Odd Bunch, which is Bullworth's's I suppose range. And again,
7:12
Speaker 4: like you go into the supermarket, you have the option
7:14
Speaker 4: to purchase that, but no one was necessarily doing that
7:17
Speaker 4: in the home delivery space. And what we were thinking was, well,
7:20
Speaker 4: how can we get the product to more Kibi households,
7:23
Speaker 4: not just those that are walking into supermarkets every day,
7:26
Speaker 4: So like, surely that there's a there's a niche there,
7:29
Speaker 4: or there's something that we can be doing there.
7:31
Speaker 2: I guess. COVID then worked in your favor with our
7:33
Speaker 2: into and out of lockdowns because people were still relying
7:37
Speaker 2: on subscription services, or at least had been introduced to
7:40
Speaker 2: subscription services if they hadn't used them already for sure.
7:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, And I think for you talk to any
7:47
Speaker 4: business owner that had a online business that is around
7:50
Speaker 4: that period, and yeah, there was definitely a huge spike
7:53
Speaker 4: and some great momentum off the back of covid in
7:56
Speaker 4: terms of interest and people purchasing products, especially in food
8:00
Speaker 4: as well. So you know, I think, you know, food
8:03
Speaker 4: being a basic need and people being forced to stay
8:06
Speaker 4: at home, it was a case of right, we're going
8:08
Speaker 4: to have to fundamentally do a lot of our our
8:10
Speaker 4: food shopping online.
8:12
Speaker 2: So were you you know, in your previous work in
8:14
Speaker 2: the UK, had you or Katie been involved in website
8:18
Speaker 2: creation or.
8:19
Speaker 3: No, not at all.
8:21
Speaker 4: My background was I'd worked for a couple of kind
8:25
Speaker 4: of I suppose what they branded themselves as fintech companies.
8:28
Speaker 4: So these were like I suppose, digital first lending platforms
8:32
Speaker 4: that would primarily be working with small medium sized businesses
8:35
Speaker 4: in the UK to offer funding outside of traditional funding
8:40
Speaker 4: sources like banks and things like that. And then Katie
8:44
Speaker 4: her background was a she was a psychiatric nurse at
8:47
Speaker 4: the NHS. So you know, neither of us had any
8:51
Speaker 4: real idea what we were getting into.
8:53
Speaker 2: And so once you had a basic idea for a
8:55
Speaker 2: business plan, did you go to the banks first?
8:59
Speaker 1: No?
8:59
Speaker 4: So so what we did was we took the last
9:01
Speaker 4: of our savings from the works and Nelson actually, which
9:05
Speaker 4: was no more than five k at the end of
9:07
Speaker 4: the day, and we just said, right, we've got five
9:10
Speaker 4: k here. We're living with a really dear friend of
9:13
Speaker 4: ours in Wellington who is now in our business and
9:16
Speaker 4: works full time as well. And his background wasn't in accounting,
9:21
Speaker 4: so he was an accountant and that was one area
9:23
Speaker 4: that Katie and I were again not close to it all.
9:26
Speaker 4: So we kind of just said to Connor at the time, look,
9:30
Speaker 4: we've got this idea, we're living with you. Can we
9:32
Speaker 4: pack the boxes here, can we do everything from your house?
9:35
Speaker 4: And can you ultimately work work the nuts and bolts
9:40
Speaker 4: in terms of zero and accounting and you know, together
9:43
Speaker 4: all three of us will have a share in this
9:46
Speaker 4: business because we couldn't pay him anything, right, like, we
9:48
Speaker 4: had this five thousand dollars to basically set up a
9:51
Speaker 4: Shopify store, probably go out and buy our first order
9:55
Speaker 4: of produce and then that was it. You know, we
9:57
Speaker 4: kind of hope by that point that we had orders
10:00
Speaker 4: to actually fulfill the investment, the small investment that we
10:03
Speaker 4: needed to put in. And so I think I think
10:06
Speaker 4: what was great with having I suppose a friends and
10:10
Speaker 4: family and in Wellington was that the you know, they
10:13
Speaker 4: introduced us to their networks. So we got put in
10:18
Speaker 4: touch with a local packaging distributor in Wellington who was
10:24
Speaker 4: a family friend, and you know, they were very kind
10:27
Speaker 4: to us in our early days. They set us up
10:30
Speaker 4: and got us an account without having to verify any
10:33
Speaker 4: credit references and things like that. And I suppose we
10:35
Speaker 4: were using our friends and family at that point to
10:38
Speaker 4: introduce us to people and lean on that to actually
10:40
Speaker 4: get accounts set up in order to trade. But very
10:45
Speaker 4: much like one of the things with having the online
10:48
Speaker 4: business was we didn't necessarily need massive amounts of funding
10:52
Speaker 4: because as soon as we were able to get a
10:54
Speaker 4: product in front of people online and they were happy
10:57
Speaker 4: to purchase it, we were never online businesses. What happens
11:01
Speaker 4: is you paid upfront, essentially right money's in the bank
11:04
Speaker 4: account before before you actually delivered the product.
11:07
Speaker 2: But people have to know about you before they can pay,
11:09
Speaker 2: So how did you get some noise?
11:12
Speaker 4: So in the early days, and we did this for
11:14
Speaker 4: about probably i would say a good year before we
11:17
Speaker 4: even spent a dollar on marketing, was we felt that
11:21
Speaker 4: we had a we were doing something very niche and timing,
11:26
Speaker 4: again with covid was everything.
11:27
Speaker 3: People were at home.
11:29
Speaker 4: People's presence on social media were more because they were
11:32
Speaker 4: just work, either working from home or not out doing activities,
11:36
Speaker 4: so they were mucking around on Facebook, Instagram and the likes.
11:38
Speaker 4: So we would we would be telling our story and
11:41
Speaker 4: telling people what we were doing via community pages. When
11:44
Speaker 4: we started the business and we were delivering those initial packages,
11:49
Speaker 4: we were very much focused on ensuring that we were
11:53
Speaker 4: covering ground enough ground in the smallest amount or the
11:57
Speaker 4: lowest condensed area. So what we did was we are
12:00
Speaker 4: going onto these community pages and telling our story, sharing
12:05
Speaker 4: photos of the farmers, the produce, us ultimately doing doing
12:10
Speaker 4: doing the work, and and that ultimately drove the initial
12:13
Speaker 4: sales and the initial uptate that we had. And yeah,
12:16
Speaker 4: we we didn't actually you know, we we probably as
12:19
Speaker 4: we were expanding through Wellington and Wellington by the way,
12:22
Speaker 4: is very hard city to start in any kind of
12:26
Speaker 4: delivery logistics company because the infrastructure and everything else is
12:31
Speaker 4: very challenging the Hills Rose Hills. Yeah, and try doing
12:36
Speaker 4: that in in a in a in a small box
12:38
Speaker 4: truck and borrowing people's friends vans and crashing crashing one
12:42
Speaker 4: every other weekend.
12:43
Speaker 3: It was a nightmare.
12:44
Speaker 4: But ultimately that growth initially simply started from from utilizing Yeah,
12:50
Speaker 4: those community pages.
12:52
Speaker 2: Many many at home businesses started up through community Facebook pages.
12:57
Speaker 2: Not many continued on past COVID. Yep, why did yours?
13:03
Speaker 4: I guess, I guess we We were at a point
13:10
Speaker 4: in our business on the tail end of COVID to
13:12
Speaker 4: make a call as to really if we wanted to
13:15
Speaker 4: chase this down and become a nationwide business or whether
13:18
Speaker 4: or not we were happy doing what we were doing
13:20
Speaker 4: in Wellington. And and you know what we wanted we
13:24
Speaker 4: want we wanted to make a bigger impact. At the
13:27
Speaker 4: end of the day, we were getting you know, we
13:29
Speaker 4: were getting reached out by growers up and down the country,
13:33
Speaker 4: and not all of them were logistically capable of delivering
13:36
Speaker 4: into Wellington. But what we identified was more problems happening
13:42
Speaker 4: up and down the country and four different growers. So
13:44
Speaker 4: if we could make an impact further north and service
13:47
Speaker 4: customers further north, and we could do the same in
13:49
Speaker 4: the South Island from from having these people reach out
13:53
Speaker 4: and seeing this, then that was enough I suppose motivation
13:56
Speaker 4: for Kadie and I to actually say, look, let's let's
14:00
Speaker 4: let's put everything into this in terms of our I
14:03
Speaker 4: guess effort and really go for it.
14:07
Speaker 2: And so that grower lead rather than consumer lead.
14:11
Speaker 3: It pivoted.
14:12
Speaker 4: It started off as consumer lid because in the early days,
14:16
Speaker 4: I think it was very challenging for us to often
14:18
Speaker 4: convince the growers that there was an appetite for this product.
14:22
Speaker 4: For years, decades, these growers had been throwing a lot
14:25
Speaker 4: of this product out or we're finding it very challenging
14:29
Speaker 4: to find a home for this product, whereas now I
14:32
Speaker 4: think we were really we were trying to push it
14:35
Speaker 4: so hard in the eyes of the consumers who were
14:38
Speaker 4: very adoptable. They were taking it on board, they were
14:40
Speaker 4: loving the product. They were you know, we were asking
14:42
Speaker 4: them every single week feedback on the product, what we
14:45
Speaker 4: could be doing better, et cetera, et cetera. That I
14:47
Speaker 4: think it actually shocked a lot of growers because a
14:50
Speaker 4: lot of growers initially were pushing back on the idea.
14:53
Speaker 4: And there are other reasons why growers wouldn't necessarily want
14:57
Speaker 4: what they would call like a byproduct or an ugly
15:00
Speaker 4: version of their product in the market as well, and
15:02
Speaker 4: we can go into that in a bit more detail.
15:04
Speaker 4: But initially I think it was to some a bit
15:08
Speaker 4: of a shock to to sort of see the numbers
15:11
Speaker 4: and see where it was tracking and where we were heading.
15:14
Speaker 4: Eventually it pivoted where I think growers, you know, they
15:18
Speaker 4: talked to other growers and and and ultimately the world
15:22
Speaker 4: was getting out of the value that we were that
15:24
Speaker 4: we were adding for some of these growers. And and
15:26
Speaker 4: yet then we got ourselves into a very good position
15:29
Speaker 4: where we had a lot of them reaching out to us.
15:32
Speaker 2: Were the growers concerned that any kind of contract they
15:35
Speaker 2: had with the supermarkets might be impacted by by giving
15:39
Speaker 2: their won key route to you not really.
15:43
Speaker 4: I think the supermarkets, you know, they predominantly they'll want
15:48
Speaker 4: to take the best looking product. You know, it's a
15:50
Speaker 4: brick and mortar store you walk in, the first thing
15:52
Speaker 4: people see when they walk into the supermarkets the produce.
15:54
Speaker 4: It's where all the bright colors are it's where you
15:56
Speaker 4: get emotional, it's where it's you know, it's the impression
15:58
Speaker 4: that gives off. So it's within their interest to be
16:01
Speaker 4: stocking and showcasing the best of the best of the bunch,
16:05
Speaker 4: if you like. And I guess what we were doing
16:08
Speaker 4: was we were saying to the grower, quite simply, of
16:12
Speaker 4: the stuff that you're not sending there, we're a good
16:15
Speaker 4: option for you, you know, the few or the limited
16:18
Speaker 4: options that they have or had, we were hoping that
16:22
Speaker 4: we could deliver better value. And so ultimately it wasn't
16:25
Speaker 4: it wasn't a big concern for most.
16:28
Speaker 2: A few skinny pigs will be brassed off that they're
16:30
Speaker 2: not getting the kind of fis that's.
16:32
Speaker 4: Absolutely Yeah, the neighbors livestock that they would typically chuck
16:36
Speaker 4: over the fence to them.
16:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, perhaps absolutely.
16:39
Speaker 2: But that's a big big call to go from being
16:43
Speaker 2: really comfortable and you know, having quite a nice little
16:46
Speaker 2: set up in Wellington to expanding at nationwide. That is
16:50
Speaker 2: a lot more headaches, yeah for you.
16:54
Speaker 3: Yep, yep.
16:55
Speaker 4: And there were moments before we got there where we
16:58
Speaker 4: were testing out, you know, testing testing out initially, because
17:03
Speaker 4: we were doing everything at the start.
17:05
Speaker 2: Well, and you also lose a bit of control, quality controls,
17:08
Speaker 2: you know, the service you provide. You have to trust
17:11
Speaker 2: that other people are going to do as good a
17:12
Speaker 2: job as you. It's hard to let go of it
17:14
Speaker 2: control when it's just been youw.
17:16
Speaker 3: It absolutely, it absolutely was.
17:18
Speaker 4: So that was a real pivotal moment I think for
17:21
Speaker 4: us in Wellington was when we first tested the outsourcing
17:24
Speaker 4: of our deliveries. And you know we now partner with
17:28
Speaker 4: for all of our nationwide home home delivery boxes, we
17:32
Speaker 4: partner with New Zealand Posts. But before we before we
17:35
Speaker 4: moved into the New Zealm Post era we call it,
17:39
Speaker 4: we started to contract our deliveries out to individuals with
17:45
Speaker 4: Vance as well.
17:45
Speaker 3: I remember the first time.
17:47
Speaker 4: We did that though, we had a chat approach us
17:52
Speaker 4: and say I'm seeing you guys out on the road
17:55
Speaker 4: and you're doing these deliveries and we were. And at
17:58
Speaker 4: that point in time it was us people that we'd
18:00
Speaker 4: hired internally to do that, or vans we were borrowing.
18:03
Speaker 4: I think at one point in time in Wellington we
18:06
Speaker 4: were hiring i think eight City Hot vans on the
18:11
Speaker 4: weekend and City Hot got really annoyed with us because
18:14
Speaker 4: because you know, we were taking all their vans away
18:17
Speaker 4: and and and yeah, well other people weren't able to
18:20
Speaker 4: borrow them on a particular Saturday, which of course is
18:22
Speaker 4: a huge day for when people need to go do
18:24
Speaker 4: handy work or move this stuff. But but basically, the
18:29
Speaker 4: first time we were approached by someone to do it,
18:33
Speaker 4: you know, we we were thinking, well, look, if we
18:35
Speaker 4: do this, then how much how much? How much work
18:38
Speaker 4: is that going to take off our hands? And Kady
18:40
Speaker 4: and I were hamming an airing it for a couple
18:42
Speaker 4: of weeks and we just decided to go for it.
18:45
Speaker 4: And I remember coming home in the afternoon on that Saturday.
18:48
Speaker 4: I believe it was quite nervous to think that the
18:53
Speaker 4: boxes were out getting delivered and it was a really
18:56
Speaker 4: I remember it was a really terrible.
18:58
Speaker 3: Day as well.
18:59
Speaker 4: It was it was rain, it was pouring, and I
19:03
Speaker 4: was thinking, wow, this is insane. We're inside having a
19:05
Speaker 4: cup of tea at one o'clock on a Saturday afternoon,
19:07
Speaker 4: not out there hustling delivering boxes. And then we had
19:13
Speaker 4: a phone call from the driver who was in Platoni
19:18
Speaker 4: at the time, and he phoned us to say that nah,
19:20
Speaker 4: this wasn't cut out for him. He wasn't going to
19:22
Speaker 4: do it, so then we had to chuck on our
19:24
Speaker 4: ranger hits, jump back in after just getting that little
19:27
Speaker 4: bit of hope, and then go and meet him unload
19:30
Speaker 4: his van full of boxes into our cars at the
19:33
Speaker 4: time because we hadn't pre prepared to hire other vans.
19:36
Speaker 4: Deal with a very awkward situation at the time, but
19:39
Speaker 4: then ultimately go and finish off the runs, right. But
19:42
Speaker 4: that was an interesting time because you know, we were
19:45
Speaker 4: sat there at that point having gotten home that evening
19:48
Speaker 4: and going well, we tried it. It doesn't work. But
19:51
Speaker 4: I think Katie's very good because she turned to me
19:53
Speaker 4: and said, look, it doesn't have to work the first
19:55
Speaker 4: time at the end of the day, and maybe I
19:57
Speaker 4: was a bit stuck with that thought at the time,
19:59
Speaker 4: but she's absolutely right, Like it didn't work that first time,
20:03
Speaker 4: but we rolled the dice.
20:04
Speaker 3: We did it again. We found someone else and it
20:06
Speaker 3: did work.
20:07
Speaker 1: The honest story of being in business, Talking the winds
20:11
Speaker 1: and the Losses Bosses Unfiltered with Kerry Woodhem on iHeartRadio
20:15
Speaker 1: powered My News talksb Wins, Losses and the real stories
20:21
Speaker 1: behind our great companies. Bosses Unfiltered with Kerry Woodhem on
20:26
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio powered my NEWSTALKSB.
20:29
Speaker 2: When it comes to how good looking the fruit and
20:31
Speaker 2: the veggies are, and you talked about the gross being
20:33
Speaker 2: a bit concerned that they didn't want their product to
20:36
Speaker 2: be associated with something less than perfect, and the supermarkets
20:40
Speaker 2: like having perfect things at the front. Do you think
20:42
Speaker 2: it's because we've lost our connection with food that we
20:45
Speaker 2: don't have the fruit trees in the backyard anymore, so
20:49
Speaker 2: you don't know that you can nibble round a bruise
20:51
Speaker 2: or a wormb you know, which we used to do
20:53
Speaker 2: when you picked fruits off your grandparents' trees.
20:55
Speaker 4: Totally, Like I think, I think a big part of
20:58
Speaker 4: it is the expectations that consumers have set themselves, you know,
21:03
Speaker 4: like we want products that are out of season all
21:07
Speaker 4: year round, because you know, we expect that. So supermarkets,
21:12
Speaker 4: you know, in their defense, they're doing their absolute best
21:15
Speaker 4: just to just to try and meet the once and
21:17
Speaker 4: the desires of consumers at the end of the day.
21:19
Speaker 4: And I guess what Wonky Box is doing is is
21:21
Speaker 4: slightly different. We're encouraging the seasonality aspect of things. We're
21:27
Speaker 4: encouraging that the produce that we're sourcing is still extremely
21:31
Speaker 4: good to eat, it's extremely fresh, it's straight from the grower,
21:34
Speaker 4: so there are no middlemen, straight to the consumer. And
21:39
Speaker 4: if it's got scars, if it's got an odd shape,
21:42
Speaker 4: it's slightly too small, it's slightly too big. That's just
21:45
Speaker 4: part of the fun at the end of the day, right,
21:46
Speaker 4: And it helps because it means that the grower, the
21:49
Speaker 4: growers getting a return, our customers should be satisfied. And ultimately,
21:56
Speaker 4: if you know, if we want to try and save
22:01
Speaker 4: money as as as a society, as a population, then
22:04
Speaker 4: a great way to do that is eating within the seasons,
22:07
Speaker 4: you know. And I think I think that it all
22:09
Speaker 4: leads down to that conversation that's constantly being had about
22:12
Speaker 4: the supermarkets and you know, pricing and so on and
22:15
Speaker 4: so forth. But like a lot of it stems from
22:17
Speaker 4: us at the end of the day, it does.
22:19
Speaker 2: And so instead of opening the reciee book and saying, right,
22:21
Speaker 2: I'm going to make that for dinner, you open the
22:23
Speaker 2: walky box and you go.
22:24
Speaker 3: Right, what can can I make?
22:26
Speaker 2: Yeah?
22:26
Speaker 3: Correct, just part of the fun.
22:27
Speaker 4: And you know, if there's if there's unusual products in there,
22:30
Speaker 4: which there are from time to time.
22:32
Speaker 3: Carl Rabi is a really good few people.
22:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Like you know, we have at our
22:38
Speaker 4: customer's availability online recipes.
22:41
Speaker 3: You know, we'll push them.
22:42
Speaker 4: We're not necessarily saying you need to use these recipes,
22:45
Speaker 4: but if you're stuck for inspiration, then they're there and
22:48
Speaker 4: they're available.
22:49
Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember that we used to have a local
22:52
Speaker 2: butcher we don't now in my neighborhood and he was
22:55
Speaker 2: asked by a couple of Yummy Mummies if he could
22:57
Speaker 2: please take down the carcasses because it frightened the littles
23:00
Speaker 2: when they came in to get the sausages. And it's like,
23:02
Speaker 2: you have to know where your food comes from.
23:04
Speaker 3: Total.
23:05
Speaker 2: I really think there's an obligation on the consumer to
23:08
Speaker 2: know it's not always going to be perfect, it's not
23:10
Speaker 2: always going to be there. You have to if there's
23:13
Speaker 2: been a bad season, you just have to get with
23:15
Speaker 2: what's available.
23:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, exactly. Yeah.
23:18
Speaker 4: I think the distance between or the connection between where
23:22
Speaker 4: our food comes from and what we know is becoming greater, and.
23:28
Speaker 3: It confuses us.
23:29
Speaker 4: Then when we go about and we're having to pay
23:32
Speaker 4: this price for this product or this price for that product,
23:34
Speaker 4: we just you know, we default assume that whoever's selling
23:37
Speaker 4: it is ripping us off. But at the end of
23:38
Speaker 4: the day, there's so much more deeper into the supply chain,
23:42
Speaker 4: there's so much more of a reason as to why
23:43
Speaker 4: it is that And I think that right now, consumers,
23:47
Speaker 4: you know, those kind of stories are far less told
23:50
Speaker 4: right when you're looking at what when you look at
23:53
Speaker 4: the media and you're hearing about some of the stories
23:56
Speaker 4: about why we're paying X amount for products at the
23:59
Speaker 4: supermarket as well, I think it's quite easy for the
24:02
Speaker 4: media to point their finger at the supermarkets, whereas you know,
24:05
Speaker 4: someone like myself who's been in the trenches now for
24:07
Speaker 4: three years and ideal and speak with growers every single day,
24:10
Speaker 4: I fundamentally can understand why the products are priced where
24:14
Speaker 4: they're at. And I think Wonky Box, you know, we're
24:17
Speaker 4: trying to tell that story more so.
24:19
Speaker 2: You started with five K. Yeah, where are you at
24:22
Speaker 2: now three years.
24:22
Speaker 4: On in terms of savings or in terms of.
24:28
Speaker 2: In terms of the company. So Wonkey Box would have
24:30
Speaker 2: had five K. That would have been its capital.
24:33
Speaker 4: Yeah, ultimately, and now you know we're we're a bigger business.
24:37
Speaker 4: We've got you know, we've got I think full time
24:40
Speaker 4: in the company we've got five five individuals, each playing
24:44
Speaker 4: their own significant part plus more. You know, we were
24:48
Speaker 4: always stretching ourselves to do more. Ultimately, before we decide
24:52
Speaker 4: to bring in someone someone new, we want to we
24:54
Speaker 4: want to make sure that higher or that new hire
24:56
Speaker 4: is going to be worthwhile doing.
24:59
Speaker 3: Where are we now? We're also so.
25:01
Speaker 4: We're picking packing in two islands. So we've got a
25:04
Speaker 4: site in the South Island, a site in the North Island.
25:09
Speaker 4: Any given time on a Wednesday and a Thursday, which
25:11
Speaker 4: are our production days, we've got about fifty staff up
25:14
Speaker 4: and down the country contributing to the mission and packing boxes.
25:19
Speaker 4: And you know, you go beyond that, you look at
25:21
Speaker 4: your contractors and how many couriers are out delivering the boxes.
25:25
Speaker 4: You know that it stretches even further. So, yeah, we're
25:28
Speaker 4: much bigger business than where we were three years ago,
25:32
Speaker 4: that's for sure.
25:34
Speaker 2: Are you a success yet?
25:37
Speaker 3: That's I guess, Yeah, what does success look like?
25:42
Speaker 2: It's different for everybody, isn't it?
25:44
Speaker 3: It is?
25:44
Speaker 4: It is And right now I think Katie and I
25:47
Speaker 4: we you know, we're dabbling. We dabbling our toes and
25:51
Speaker 4: many new things. The wonky pantry, We've got wonky flowers.
25:55
Speaker 2: Because flowers are supposed to be good looking.
25:57
Speaker 4: Correct, Yes, so this is interesting, it's a whole and
26:01
Speaker 4: predominantly what we find in New Zealand is a lot
26:05
Speaker 4: of the reason why they tailor into the wonky why
26:08
Speaker 4: they're in that wonky brand is not just necessarily the appearance.
26:12
Speaker 3: It could be surplus.
26:13
Speaker 4: For example, So this country we have very few flower growers,
26:17
Speaker 4: and of the ones that we have, they often take
26:21
Speaker 4: a gamble because they've got Valentine's date, they've got Mother's date,
26:25
Speaker 4: they've got Christmas, they've got these periods of the year
26:27
Speaker 4: where they're selling five times as much product than they
26:30
Speaker 4: would every other week of the year. But during those
26:34
Speaker 4: kind of not so peak periods of the year, they're
26:37
Speaker 4: still trying to actually make sure they have enough to
26:38
Speaker 4: supply supermarkets and florists and so on and so forth.
26:41
Speaker 4: And with the trim whilst we've seen a shift and
26:45
Speaker 4: seen less and less growers producing flowers in the country,
26:49
Speaker 4: those ones that are producing flowers need to make sure
26:51
Speaker 4: they're growing enough to basically service the country. So we
26:54
Speaker 4: were called down from one of our growers that supplies
26:57
Speaker 4: as veggies and the White Kettow, very long standing partnership
27:01
Speaker 4: we have with these guys. They also happened to be
27:03
Speaker 4: the largest flower grower in the country, and so they
27:06
Speaker 4: actually invited us down there on I think the week
27:09
Speaker 4: after Valentine's Day and they said, look, we've got someone
27:13
Speaker 4: to show you, and this is a peak for us,
27:16
Speaker 4: but like we have this problem week to week when
27:18
Speaker 4: we're managing orders and so on and so forth. And
27:20
Speaker 4: we went down there and we didn't really know what
27:22
Speaker 4: they were talking about. They were keeping it very hush hush.
27:24
Speaker 4: And we got there and we got invited to the farm,
27:28
Speaker 4: not the farm gate where we typically go to see
27:30
Speaker 4: the veggies, but to their flower side of it, their
27:32
Speaker 4: their flower orchard, the tunnels over that area, which is
27:36
Speaker 4: just a k or two down the road.
27:39
Speaker 3: And we went in and.
27:40
Speaker 4: You know, we saw this huge pile of flowers and
27:45
Speaker 4: what looked like very normal looking regular flowers that were
27:48
Speaker 4: just dumped outside the pack site. And we said, well,
27:51
Speaker 4: what's going on here, and they said, well, this is
27:54
Speaker 4: this is the problem. Like a lot of this, he said,
27:56
Speaker 4: about seventy percent of it will be surplus that we
27:59
Speaker 4: just have harvested, and we can't do anything with twenty
28:04
Speaker 4: to thirty percent the stems might be too short, a
28:08
Speaker 4: leaf might be broken on the on the actual stem
28:10
Speaker 4: that will remove anyway, but it still doesn't fit within
28:13
Speaker 4: the spec that some of the local markets asked for,
28:16
Speaker 4: and so they said, could we be doing something with this?
28:19
Speaker 2: So that was GROO. That's interesting.
28:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, grower lead is first and foremost the mission, right
28:24
Speaker 4: Do you and Kadie like being bosses?
28:31
Speaker 3: Yes?
28:31
Speaker 2: And no.
28:32
Speaker 4: I think we like doing things and I think being
28:37
Speaker 4: a leader can be extremely challenging but an absolute must. Right, Like,
28:44
Speaker 4: we've got this very lean structure to our business, and
28:50
Speaker 4: we've got really really, really good, amazing staff within the
28:55
Speaker 4: company who are all driven by the mission at the
28:59
Speaker 4: end of the day, and yeah, we've we've got to
29:02
Speaker 4: manage We've got to manage them. We've got our best
29:04
Speaker 4: friend who's the accountant, and that's you know, again, fun
29:07
Speaker 4: interesting dynamic that one. But I think respectively, we we're
29:14
Speaker 4: doing that as well as doing everything else within the business.
29:17
Speaker 2: So and finding the right person must be so difficult
29:20
Speaker 2: because when it's that smaller team that interdependent and interconnected,
29:24
Speaker 2: the wrong person could be a disaster.
29:27
Speaker 3: For sure, for sure.
29:28
Speaker 4: I think, I think and you know, we've got we've
29:30
Speaker 4: had mentors who are now advisors slash you know, directors
29:35
Speaker 4: within the business now who have had great experience that
29:38
Speaker 4: they've brought to to our board and at the end
29:42
Speaker 4: of the day, you know, governance and everything else. So
29:44
Speaker 4: these guys have been there to really help guide us
29:46
Speaker 4: in how we make these decisions around hiring and fundamentally,
29:50
Speaker 4: I think the number one rule for Katie and I
29:52
Speaker 4: when we're making a key hire is we know where
29:55
Speaker 4: in the business someone needs to be, we know what
29:58
Speaker 4: they need to do, and ultimately, can we trust that
30:00
Speaker 4: they're going to do and even better job than what
30:02
Speaker 4: we're going to be able to do. And that's that's
30:04
Speaker 4: been our mantra, right like is actually finding people better
30:07
Speaker 4: than ours for certain pockets within the business and trusting
30:11
Speaker 4: them at the end of the day. Like you know,
30:12
Speaker 4: we're small business at the end of the day, and
30:15
Speaker 4: I think for us, it's you have to have that
30:17
Speaker 4: trust component, right because we're not going to be there
30:19
Speaker 4: to micromanagement the whole time. We're going to be out
30:22
Speaker 4: there trying to grow the business and do more.
30:25
Speaker 2: And it is a business that you started together, you
30:28
Speaker 2: work together, you still have to have a relationship together
30:31
Speaker 2: how do you manage the.
30:32
Speaker 4: Two I we get We get asked that question quite often,
30:37
Speaker 4: and surprisingly I think that well, we always say we
30:43
Speaker 4: always we always say to each other at the end
30:45
Speaker 4: of the day, thank goodness, we're doing this together. Like
30:50
Speaker 4: all of the hard times that come with owning a business,
30:54
Speaker 4: I feel for the people that are out there hustling
30:57
Speaker 4: by themselves in and I suppose a fan and in
31:00
Speaker 4: the founder seat and so on. At least with us
31:04
Speaker 4: being I suppose in a relationship at the same time,
31:06
Speaker 4: we can call on each other whenever we need, We
31:10
Speaker 4: can express how we're feeling, just quite comfortably and honestly
31:15
Speaker 4: and openly.
31:16
Speaker 3: Look, it works, it works really well for us. At
31:19
Speaker 3: the end of the day. Yeah, it hasn't been a problem.
31:21
Speaker 2: Do you have a figure in mind as to win,
31:23
Speaker 2: You'll say, we've made it.
31:27
Speaker 3: For us. It's all just purely about.
31:31
Speaker 4: Doing more with more suppliers, the grower ladmission and being
31:35
Speaker 4: able to do that, I suppose at a greater level,
31:40
Speaker 4: not just in the farming space, the horticultural space, but
31:43
Speaker 4: potentially into the pantry and now obviously the floric culture
31:47
Speaker 4: and things like that. For us, we just there's no
31:50
Speaker 4: real end goal just yet we're just hustling day to day,
31:54
Speaker 4: week to week at the moment, trying to do more,
31:56
Speaker 4: trying to do better.
31:57
Speaker 2: Can businesses sustain themselves elves through, especially through those really
32:02
Speaker 2: difficult first years if money is the only driving motivator
32:09
Speaker 2: or do you have to have something bigger behind what
32:11
Speaker 2: you're doing?
32:13
Speaker 4: Look, I think I think the purpose the purpose first
32:17
Speaker 4: mindset has gotten us through so many challenges at the
32:22
Speaker 4: end of the day and throw through so much more
32:24
Speaker 4: than I imagine a lot of people could cope with.
32:28
Speaker 4: And look, you've always got to be focused on your numbers.
32:32
Speaker 4: You've always got to be every decision that you're making,
32:34
Speaker 4: you need to sense check that with your profit and
32:37
Speaker 4: loss forecasts and so on that we actually spend time
32:41
Speaker 4: on weekly. And sometimes you're making decisions that you want
32:45
Speaker 4: to do, but you can't do, you know, because because
32:47
Speaker 4: it doesn't make sense from the numbers perspective. And during
32:50
Speaker 4: those periods it can be quite daunting because then you
32:54
Speaker 4: don't know how you're going to get through and get
32:55
Speaker 4: to the next stage. But somehow, one way or another,
32:58
Speaker 4: it always works out.
33:00
Speaker 2: Have you paid yourself yet?
33:01
Speaker 3: You and yeady yea, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yep, we
33:04
Speaker 3: pay ourselves.
33:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, good, All right, We've got some quick fire
33:07
Speaker 2: questions for you. What is your favorite fruit.
33:09
Speaker 4: And veg My favorite fruit and vege is the very
33:13
Speaker 4: expensive passion fruit.
33:16
Speaker 3: SAME's so good.
33:17
Speaker 4: They're even they're even more expensive this season and I'm
33:20
Speaker 4: still I'm still trying to find out why, but yeah,
33:22
Speaker 4: can't beat it.
33:23
Speaker 2: What do you do when things get tough?
33:28
Speaker 4: Katy and I have each other at the end of
33:29
Speaker 4: the day, and I think that gets us through a lot.
33:34
Speaker 4: We catch up with our team, everyone in our team
33:38
Speaker 4: every single week, so, like you know, we we want
33:40
Speaker 4: to we want to make sure that we're there for
33:42
Speaker 4: them first and foremost. And ultimately there are highs, there
33:45
Speaker 4: are lows. But I suppose with the lows, what we
33:50
Speaker 4: do is we just we always know that we can
33:51
Speaker 4: get We're always going to get through. Like I said,
33:53
Speaker 4: we've got an outstanding team. Every single one of them
33:56
Speaker 4: is a hustler and and yeah, well we get through.
34:00
Speaker 2: Where do you get the best ideas from other people
34:03
Speaker 2: from brainstorming from aha moments when you because obviously with
34:08
Speaker 2: the grower, that with the flowers that came.
34:09
Speaker 4: From that, so two places, really our customers or our suppliers.
34:14
Speaker 4: You know, we're so engaged with our suppliers that a
34:16
Speaker 4: lot of the inspiration, the innovation comes from them. We're
34:20
Speaker 4: a supply driven business at the end of the day,
34:22
Speaker 4: and everything we're doing is for the greater good for
34:25
Speaker 4: the suppliers, whether that be the flower supplies, whether that
34:27
Speaker 4: be pantry supplies, whether that be the growers. So a
34:30
Speaker 4: lot of a lot of ideas now come from these guys,
34:33
Speaker 4: now that we've proven that we're a viable and reliable
34:38
Speaker 4: source for these for these producers, you know, they're they're
34:41
Speaker 4: suddenly coming to us with ideas, which is fantastic.
34:44
Speaker 2: And where are you going to be in ten years?
34:47
Speaker 4: I'd like us to be one of the most prominent
34:52
Speaker 4: options available to consumers in New Zealand outside of the
34:55
Speaker 4: traditional grocery space.
34:57
Speaker 3: That's where I see us.
34:58
Speaker 4: I see us, you know, I see us working in
35:00
Speaker 4: the flower space, greater greater impact in the pantry space,
35:04
Speaker 4: produce who knows could be could eventually get into the
35:09
Speaker 4: meat sector. I heard that those guys are struggling at
35:12
Speaker 4: the moment as well. So there's I'm sure there's innovation there,
35:15
Speaker 4: but you know, all round grocery model, but not necessarily
35:19
Speaker 4: competing directly with traditionalists, but more with our wonky spin
35:24
Speaker 4: on things.
35:25
Speaker 2: And what do you wish you'd known at the beginning
35:28
Speaker 2: of the business.
35:30
Speaker 4: That success doesn't happen overnight. You know, it's a grind,
35:34
Speaker 4: even with two of us in, I suppose the leadership
35:38
Speaker 4: roles Katie and I both co founding of Wonky Box.
35:42
Speaker 4: It's seventy eighty hour weeks most weeks, even three years in.
35:46
Speaker 4: But like, you really got to love what you're doing,
35:49
Speaker 4: and you've really got to be passionate about what it
35:52
Speaker 4: is she doing behind the mission.
35:56
Speaker 3: That gets you through.
35:58
Speaker 4: But yeah, like be prepared to sit for a while
36:01
Speaker 4: before you start to see anything prosperous come through.
36:04
Speaker 2: And that was Angers Sims from Wonky Box. I think
36:07
Speaker 2: we're all a bit guilty of expecting our fresh food
36:09
Speaker 2: to look a certain way, aren't we. If you want
36:11
Speaker 2: to hear more stories about what it's really like to
36:13
Speaker 2: be a boss, make sure you check out Bosses Unfiltered
36:17
Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts. Get you
36:21
Speaker 2: next time,