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What Body Cam Footage Reveals After A Fatal Traffic Stop · Between the Headlines: Columbus

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what he has come up with today to talk about.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not asking you to hide anything.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know, put it out there.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Let the people see it.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I've never not worked in a hospital working department.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: You can't argue with anybody when they're putting facts in your face.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Zach.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's a hard question.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I have no answer for it.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: This is Between the Headlines.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: This week on Between the Headlines, a teen has been charged with felony murder after the fatal police flight on June 16th that happened on Alabama Street.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: Also, Chief Daughtery, again in a little bit of hot water.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: This time there's another letter, and we've got that letter, and we'll talk about it.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: And we'll also talk about pickleball.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: But first.
• 0:53
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• 0:57
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• 1:04
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• 1:12
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• 1:14
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• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: This episode of Between the Headlines is brought to you by Bank First, a bank headquartered right here in Columbus, Mississippi.
• 1:23
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• 1:52
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• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: Happy Independence Day to you from us here at Catfish Alley Studio here in downtown Columbus.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: Your host, as always, is the managing editor of the Dispatch, Mr.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: Zach Player.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: My name is Dave Chisholm, and we are privileged to reach out to you today from a nicely air-conditioned studio here, courtesy of Josh Gillis.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm glad Better than the outside for dang sure.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: Glad to be indoors and glad to be here with you, and glad to be celebrating faith, family, freedom, and all the many other things the friendly city has to offer.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: However, today's episode is not really the happiest of episodes.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: We've got some pretty dark headlines we've got to work through, uh, chief among them being this 16-year-old who has been charged with felony murder after that awful, awful wreck that happened on Alabama Street.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: And we've had some developments.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: Where do we begin with this, Mr.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: Zach?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let uh from the top, uh we've got the guy identified 16-year-old uh Zamico Mark Weston of Columbus.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: He's been charged with felony murder and felony fleeing, misdemeanor, careless driving, and driving without a license.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the first time I've heard this that name.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: So his name was released this morning as a record time.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, his uh sheriff's office uh released his name uh publicly yesterday afternoon.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: So that that's two charges, the the heavy one being uh the heavy one being murder.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's an interesting one.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: So let's kind of back up here because we we haven't talked a lot about the the logistics here.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, this was one of those deals uh it the wreck happened in front of Food Giant after these guys blew away from a traffic stop.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um we talked about what the official story was.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we talked about you know skepticism surrounding that, public skepticism in particular about whether um whether the cops bumped them off the road or whether there was a high-speed chase that involved police pursuit.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um I can tell you um I've seen the body camera footage of a large portion of this, including the traffic stop.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: And this is what I can say.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: This this driver, this uh Weston kid, driving without a license.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Police are trying to get him to cooperate, uh, officers on the scene uh are trying to get him to cooperate.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: He's not cooperating.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: You can see that on the body camera footage.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: They keep talking about what are you reaching for in your waistband, what are you reaching for in your waistband.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it turns out later on they did recover a firearm from this kid at the scene of the wreck, and that was what was allegedly in his waistband that he was reaching for.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: And everything we've spoken about so far is allegedly, of course.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you can also see on the body camera footage, and this is the heartbreaking thing, this uh uh so this uh Christopher Bankhead, 21 years old, he's riding in the front passenger seat.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: At one point in this traffic stop, he attempts to get out of the vehicle, opens the vehicle, says, I'm getting out.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: And right as that is happening, that's when Mr.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Weston decides to speed away.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: Bankhead pulls the door shut because otherwise he's gonna fall out of the car, and then they take off.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: And everybody and his family's wishing he would have jumped out of that vehicle.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: Zach, let me take that a step further.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: At the moment when um the uh the decedent, Mr.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: Bankhead, uh, started to get out of the vehicle.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I'm not asking you to be judge and jury on this, but just based on what you saw, did it look like he had Look like he changed his mind?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: Looked like he could have changed his mind, got back in, or did he try to get out and the door gets slung shut on him?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, what what would you characterize what it appeared to me, having seen the video, this is what it appeared to me.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: And this was one of those deals where the body camera footage that I'm looking at is from an officer who is facing the passenger door.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: So is it this is straight straight on.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: You can hear the officer talk about what are you reaching for to the driver.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: You can you can hear that, but you can't see necessarily, or I didn't see necessarily the pistol or or anything like that.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: But what you could see is the officer walk, the officer whose body camera footage I'm watching walks around the car and is looking straight on, like I'm looking at you at the passenger door when Mr.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Bankhead opens the door and tells them he's getting out.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: And there was a split second, split second between the time that he's like, I'm getting out, and the time that uh the driver speeds off.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean it was one of those deals where you know, if he would have gotten out of the car, he would have had to jump.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: And probably would have taken a tumble and a roll.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, which I think knowing what we know now would would have been the move, but I mean, at the time in that split second, who's gonna do that?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean But the door shuts and then they speed off.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: But it's a split second deal.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a deal where he thinks about it, then shuts the door, then the guy speeds off.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: The door is open when the car starts moving.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: So uh as far as how long it takes to have that wreck, it's it's moments later.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's not it's not a whole long time.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: So geographically help me out.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: Where was this police stopped?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: Somewhere around Airline Road, and they took off, and by the time the police get into the vehicles, it's just a matter of moments that you see them drive up on the carnage of this wreck.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: And it was absolutely awful.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: It was awful.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: We're not gonna go into that, but I mean you can see the the the the three living occupants on the ground.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one of them screaming, one of them thinks he's dead, and uh uh the police officer is having to um you're not dead, but but but someone else is, and having to like bring them to that realization and trying to do all of that.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: You see them recover the gun from the driver on the body camera footage.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, from the driver, not from the vehicle.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: From the driver.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: From the driver's person.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: It was on his person.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um Do you suppose, uh just given the graphic nature of this, that that's why they chose to release the footage just to Well they didn't release the footage.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: That needs to be made clear.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: But they showed it to you and they allowed us, WCBI and WTVA, to inspect the footage in Daughtry's office.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh which is not the same as releasing it.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: What do you mean?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, I think it's better that they showed the video at least to you guys than as opposed to not showing it to anyone.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: I you know, I think that uh it's not full transparency, but it's you know, yeah.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that it there are a lot of before we go into the charges and the veracity of this murder charge, I do want to say this.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: I I understand in investigations why you don't release the body camera footage and things like that, but there was a lot of public outcry and a lot of speculation.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: And the speculation goes back to some stuff that the police department has mishandled.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you go back and you look at the Jeremy Harris issue where he walks out of the um, where he walks out of the hospital without a drug test, and then everybody goes, we don't know why that happened.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, stuff like that.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: So when you've got that going on in your department, and then something like this happens, the public is making up their version of events, I think it was good for Chief Daughtery to say, no, my officers acted appropriately.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: My officers did not do these things that we're being accused of doing.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean we didn't see as part of the footage the point of the wreck.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: So we don't know when they went off the road.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have we haven't seen footage of that.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: There was no evidence that they were bumped.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: The police officers at the stop were were standing on the street on foot when the car took off.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: They had to run back to their vehicles.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: So none of the ones that were at that traffic stop bumped him, bumped them off the road.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: They would have been too far behind.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: They would have been too far behind.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um and for my money, it looked like they, you know, they handled it, they handled everything the way that they said they handled it, as far as everything that I have seen.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that was important to at least let be reported publicly in any case.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: So honestly, I applaud Daughtry for doing it at least that because I think that it was important for the public and I think it was important for his department.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now, obviously, full transparency is always best.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell It's always best, and I concur, and I hope that uh at the appropriate moment uh that we can all see the uh redacted.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not asking him to show the carnage, but show us uh as the public what happened.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: Because look, there's some makeup work that needs to be done in the way of transparency.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and we'll talk about some more of that later, I suppose.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: But I I want to talk about this murder charge because it kind of shocked me when I saw felony murder, because when you think of murder, you think about oh, I intended to kill you.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh obviously in this situation, there He was just trying to get away.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he was trying to get away.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Intent to kill somebody would be very b difficult to argue in this case, but this particular type of murder charge, according to the District Attorney's Office, um, who Columbus police consulted before slapping the charge on him.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's not like the other types of murder where you have to prove some level of intent.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you just he was comm acting recklessly in committing another felony and it resulted in the death of another person.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Powell Well, the way I read it, it it may be not even recklessly.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're committing a felony, and because you're committing a felony and the commission of that felony ends up causes the death of another person, then then this charge is applicable in this case.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Seems to be.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: Look, I'm not a lawyer.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not a lawyer, and my opinion on this and 75 cents will get you whatever 75 cents will buy you, but it'll buy you a Saturday, Sunday edition of the dispatch, right?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: No, not Saturday, Sunday, but it'll buy you a weekday edition of the dispatch.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: So probably do that with the 75 cents.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm on a grand jury.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is very clearly manslaughter or or negligent homicide.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: Murder's tough for an unlicensed 16-year-old kid that yeah, he he had a gun, yeah, he was being stupid, yeah, he was running from the cops, and yes, it resulted in the death of one of his passengers, but it resulted in his own injury as well.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um and two other let's not forget that.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: I if I'm on a grand jury I don't know, and I, you know, Sc Scott Colomb, the district attorney, even kind of alluded to this when he was talking to us about it.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, I don't know if I agree with this charge, but it is applicable.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see what the grand jury does.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: We will see what the grand jury does.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: I would not be shocked if the grand jury came back with manslaughter and negligent homicide.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: Well, in Mississippi, as in many other states with these very serious crimes, you get tried as an adult, but that does not necessarily mean that you get sentenced as an adult.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: These are pretty hefty crimes that resulted in a death.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean him being charged as an adult is not that much of a surprise to me.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: You and I have been in this room talking about high-speed chases and about the uh policies or lack of policies, certainly the land lack of transparency for those policies when it comes to high-speed pursuits.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't have people fleeing, then you don't have these high-speed pursuits, right?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well so first of all, I want to make clear that this was not a high-speed pursuit.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: However, I think this wreck had pretty well already happened before they got the this wreck had already happened before the police got to it.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: So what I'm saying to you is So they weren't chasing them down the road and then they lost control.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: But this guy allegedly did flee.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: He did.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: And and that is a big problem.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: And and we can't be going easy on this stuff because more and more of it'll happen.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yes, and I agree with you on that, but David, i it but I don't think that high-speed chases is relevant in this particular instance, but it is relevant at times and and high speed chases, especially through residential areas or through commercial districts in town.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: This is right near a church.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, those need to stop.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're and and we've talked about this before.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh unless there is an imminent danger, unless you've got like Dick Tracy style, Madonna hanging out the back window and a gun to her head, you probably slow down and think smarter, not harder, if you're the police.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: I I think that the high-speed chases through certain areas that are full of cameras.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're dangerous, they're unnecessarily dangerous, there's not any practical utility for them, so stop it.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: But if you let them go, and we'll get off the let them go.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's not what I'm talking about.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: But you can catch somebody using technology and investigative tools and common sense without running the risk of losing control of your patrol car and um uh plowing into a family at an intersection.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think, you know, you mentioned the cover-up of the um the alleged cover-up, however you want to phrase it, of the of the drug test that happened, didn't happen, we never got the results from that created a real toxic uh work environment, shall we say, for the police chief, something that he's still digging himself out of, right?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh do you think that comes into play as we look at this particular case?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, I think that the public perception of it, as I said, harkens back to some mishandling of things, that being one of them, uh, by the police chief and the city administration.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um I just don't think that the criticism in this case, especially the um the conspiracy theories and the insistence that these conspiracy theories are correct because we don't know any better.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm saying that evidence has been presented well enough to put that to rest that I don't think that those things are relevant in this case.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it leads well into the next topic, which is uh also not an easy topic, and that is we've got another dad gum letter uh aimed at the police chief, and there are at least a handful of officers that just want him gone, okay, according to this letter.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um Zach, if you will, uh and by the way, this letter is for for full view um on the dispatch website uh on Facebook.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: You can click on the article link.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um tell me about this letter.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um uh we came in possession of this letter directly from an officer, confirmed at least one officer had a hand in writing it, and are told that maybe a few others uh at least knew about it or had a hand in crafting it.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: And the letter, I mean, I'm not gonna read it, but um d the letter hits on several points where it it it makes allegations that the culture there is very much Daughter's Way or the Highway.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um my name is on the door.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: He is is he s supposedly says that a lot, and you know, mean they take it to mean that I'm in charge and my narrative stands, regardless of how it affects you, is how they take it.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um now, and and I will say before I continue that Daltrey refutes and rebuts all of these points.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: He sat down with us and talked to us about it, um, and we appreciate him for that.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: But um uh talks about a culture there that that drops morale, talks about how um dissenting voices are quelled, marginalized, uh retaliated against, um those types of things.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just that those kinds of accusations over and again.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: It gets into uh him handpicking who qualifies for promotions and promotion exams.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um now uh for Daltrey's part, um he d he denies the allegations in the letter as presented.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: He says a lot of these things are out of context, for example.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um the policies of the police department uh dictate who can take exams and they follow those policies, and sometimes they have to tell people that those policies um that though the per those policies they don't qualify and that that rubs people the wrong way sometimes.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I think for me, this letter and Daughter's response to it are both problematic.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um because uh it does show a discontent in the police department, but you do wonder whether it is systemic cultural or if this is a sector of officers who are particularly dissatisfied because they just don't like Daughtry.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: Or just one disgruntled officer with a couple of buddies that kind of halfway agree with him.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, m um I I would say it's a little more than that.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: But uh the concern with with I think Daughtry's response for me is this uh he was very dismissive of it.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um he defended himself, he brought his command staff into the room um to to talk about how wrong the letter was in every aspect of it.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we've got the assistant chief saying, you know, we've heard rumblings of this in the background, but none of this has ever come forward.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: I have a hard time believing that that nobody has any knowledge of this issue.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I I just I understand why Daltrey defended himself.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate him sitting down and talking to us about it.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's concerning to me that he dismissed outright the veracity of any of the those points of view.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um I understand why he wouldn't agree with them.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's concerning that he would dismiss them.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because here a while back, you might remember the blue flu.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think we talked about it on here.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: The threat of the blue flu.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: It was another handful of officers, a shift of officers that were like, we're not coming to work because we're concerned about these very same things.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: So we ask Daughtery.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, what'd you do about that?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: How did you address that?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: And his answer was we we didn't.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: Important question is this potentially the same group of folks, the blue flu people and the anonymous letter people.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, per our ethics and per our policies, David, I mean, this was given to us anonymously.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: I I can't discuss any of the fair enough.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: It was off the record.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: Well that will stand.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'll tell you this, though.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: I've dealt with people I look, I've not worked in a police department, but I I don't think that a police department is a democracy.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's closer to a dictatorship than a democracy just being real.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta have a chain of command.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta have a hierarchy, okay?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's just the way things are.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: But just for me, from uh just an ethical and a dealing with people standpoint, if there's not enough courage to sign that letter with a name, then I'm not taking that letter seriously.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: Because then my acceptance of that letter adds to the poison that's being put in the water.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, our job as journalists is not to gatekeep the work environment of Columbus Police Department or anywhere else.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: If somebody who is in an environment like that that the taxpayers are funding, um comes to us and says, these are my experiences.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, then we have an ethical obligation to follow up on that and ask all of the necessary parties about those claims.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what we did.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: You you're doing the right job, I think, for covering it.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: My my issue is not with the covering of this letter.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: My my issue is with the the devisement of this letter and the failure of this letter to have a signature of the retaliation.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: There are all kinds of reasons, David, why somebody would want the public to know something anonymously.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I I'll defend that, I will defend that to prison.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: There are all kinds of reasons why somebody would want to say people need to know what is going on.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be a whistleblower in this situation.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: There are laws that protect whistleblowers for this reason, David.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: And for them to say, I my livelihood would be at stake if my name is on this.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: My safety might be at stake if my name is on this.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's not for us to tell somebody what you know that if they say, you know, my livelihood, my safety, my you know, fear of retaliation, whatever.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Here are reasons that we want to be anonymous.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: Before I give you this, is that acceptable to you?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: And you we we work that out with these people.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: There are all kinds of reasons why somebody would want to be a whistleblower and not want their name to be in it.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think that that's a lack of courage necessarily.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Now, would I think it would depend on the circumstances whether I would be anonymous in the same uh, you know, if I would ever be anonymous or whether I would chest out and put my name on it, I think it would depend on the circumstances.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think that there's any of us that would say, because what what's the alternative there, David?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: The alternative is, well, if I'm not willing to put my name on this, then it doesn't then that means that I'm not willing to really talk about it.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: So we're just gonna let this go.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: There are people out there who can help.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: There are people out there who can look into things, there are people out there that can be third-party validators for what you're going through and make that public.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that people taking advantage of or seeking to let people know about that anonymously, if it's true, I don't care about any of that.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so I don't care if it's anonymous.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: If it's true.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: If it's true, not saying isn't it?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: If it's true, could it also be said that the bold step of stepping forward would inevitably result in other people stepping forward?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: And then if police chief Daughtery steps forward in retaliation and does something, he hangs himself.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: I that's not how any of this stuff works, man.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: I've been around this long enough to know.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh covering education in schools, covering uh police, covering well fire departments notwithstanding, but covering police, covering other agencies where there's a very real fear of retaliation, there's a very real fear of losing your livelihood, there's a very real fear of your work environment or your safety becoming an issue if you are found to be that whistleblower.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: That has more power than stepping out.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because a lot of times stepping out, you're on that limb where everybody else that agreed with you a while ago is now seeing the repercussions and sawing that log off behind you that you're on, or the limb off behind you that you're on the end of.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen that happen way more often.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: You end up being a martyr for nothing.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's a difficult topic to talk about because uh for me, I support law and order.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: I also support liberty, but those things have to balance in my mind, right?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_03: And and when we talk about this stuff, it it gets aired, it gets talked about on social media, and people have a tendency to say, you know what, these policemen are crooks.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: I need to run from them.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: I don't and and and say I don't want that to be the case because most of these guys are doing everything they can to be um upstanding officers of the law.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then whenever we start talking about the negative, then it it it somewhat undermines it, but it shouldn't.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: The positives take care of themselves, and so here you and I are talking about the negatives at the risk of it making the that sound like the whole police setup is is a bad option and it's not.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and I think for for this particular instance, this is just me talking as a person, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think that there are some grievances that are that that is in this letter, some grievances in this letter that have teeth.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that there are some grievances in this letter that may be taken out of context or maybe personal uh ty interpretations that that have a more contextual explanation.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: I also think it's true that if Daltrey has a pattern of officers in his department who feel this way, then he needs to deal with it because dismissing dismissing it out of hand isn't isn't the move here.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um capitulating to nonsense also isn't the move, but there is a place in the middle there where Daltrey can can play and potentially make a lot of difference.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now he does say one thing here, if these guys are so unhappy, why are they still here?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's valid.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it may be one of those things where with with maybe uh some of the people there is no remediation here because they're just too far apart.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's okay.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: But but if there is a place where he can remediate these these concerns or better educate on these issues, his officers, and be a little more available and be a little more open.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think that he should pursue that and I think he should take that seriously instead of just dismissing this out of hand.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell So is it possible that publicly he comes across as dismissive, uh maybe even defensively?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: And yet after the fact, maybe he goes into his office and says to himself, you know what, maybe there's some policies that can be reviewed to quell just a little bit of this.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: And and that would be fine, except for after the blue flu thing, he's openly acknowledged that that did not happen.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would hope that he wouldn't repeat uh the mistake of the past.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um it never got addressed.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: We never heard from them.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: When we tried to figure out what was wrong, everybody we talked to raised no concerns.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, but just because you're looking at them and they say they won't tell you to your face, it doesn't mean that it's not true.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um I like Councilman Jefferson, Gary Jefferson um made aware of this letter.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: His take on it was I think we as a council should have some serious conversations with the chief about his uh concerns that officers continually bring these accusations up and what we can do to improve the morale of the department.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that would be dandy.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think that the officers who are concerned right now to have the council looking at it and going, Okay, we hear you.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: Let's address this.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think that that's I think that that's um should be encouraging to them.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's certainly encouraging to me as a member of the public that the council looks at this and says, No, no, no, no, we're gonna talk about this.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I hope that uh Councilman Jefferson continues to push that forward.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: Very good.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, for those of you listening, if you get pulled over, just comply, do what needs to be done.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: You'll have your day in court, and y'all stay safe and friendly out there.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: Speaking of friendly next topic, Zach, are you a pickleball guy?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not a pickleball guy.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: We're fixing to get into it.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: We're fixing to get into it.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm not a pickle guy either.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: You're telling me we gotta both come in here and talk about something that neither of us play.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: No, well, my kids play pickleball.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: I know a bunch of people who play pickleball, and the and I don't know how to uh I don't know how to say this word.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: I should have got on that site that tells you how to say things uh to get it.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: But like is it zeitgeist or zeitgeist?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: How do you pronounce that?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, I have no idea.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: If it if it's if it's German and the I comes last, it's zeitgeist.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, well, there you go.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's the word.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh surrounded, I mean, this thing is growing.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: This is growing uh like wildfire.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: And there's been really heavy investment in uh our parks.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: Startville, Columbus, you know, everybody's building pickleball anywhere they can.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: They got if if they've got the square footage just on a bare piece of ground that they can level, they're putting pickleb they're putting a pickleball court on it.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: Hell went on vacation in uh Kentucky, uh, and this Airbnb had uh had some space, and that's what they did with it.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: They just put a pickleball court right in the middle of their like lake house property.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Steve Pyle here locally, he's gotten on Facebook and uh seems to be talking about building something out on Wilkinswise Road.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, he's talking about that, and that's you know, Startville, they opened an indoor uh pickleball facility, so we've got a lot of outdoor pickleball options.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now we've got folks coming in with indoor pickleball options, pickleball options.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in uh Startville, you can have a beer with it, which that's fine.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I I I think maybe Steve is thinking more lemonade and water and soft drinks, but um yeah, I think it's fun.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's cool that there's a lot of uh a lot of people getting into this thing.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: My kids are into it.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think they're very good at it, but uh they probably beat me and you both.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: I probably need to start doing it, but uh it a lot of fun.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: I know a lot of people who play and they have a lot of fun.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: And one of these days they're gonna get me out there.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because with my knees right now, pickleball's more my speed, I think.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would like to learn how to play it.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's like a wiffle ball.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: And and I tell you, from what I read about it, it seems like uh one of the attractions of pickleball is that it is an intergenerational.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: It is old people and young people actually playing competitively.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: It started as an old person game from what's the first one.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it did.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_03: You know, Leroy Brooks invented it, didn't he?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: He'd probably tell you that he did.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's something for all ages and um You think Grandpa Hull plays pickleball?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_03: He could.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: I he should put one at the back of Lee Mall or or let let one of our local investors do that, right?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe a a a splash pad right here, a torch right here, yeah.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: Play pickleball wet.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, play pickleball sloshed.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: You can have a little um a little ale distribution, like a a bar is what they call it, right there on this side of it.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: Columbus would eat that up.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: You reckon?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: I th I think so.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think that would be a really good idea for investors.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_03: But tips at cdispatch.com.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: I I need to go one more place with this.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't ever do this, David.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna be very shocked and amazed at this, maybe confused.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: But I need to put my Fox News hat on for a second.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: Are you ready?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: You look concerned.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I I'm concerned.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know you had a Fox News hat.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I didn't know I had one either until I thought I started thinking about this.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was I'm putting my Fox News hat on, but I'm very I'm semi-serious about what I'm about to say.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: I like pickleball fine.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: I want pickleball to succeed.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: I like the fact that people are doing I want to learn how to play pickleball, and I'm gonna.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: But the war on tennis needs to stop.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: Is that what it is?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: There's a war on tennis, and I'm tired of the war on tennis, man.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Zach, you understand um that Mississippi is no longer number one in obesity.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: We're number two now.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, good.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so you run further when you play tennis, so you might be number three if you wouldn't convert all the tennis courts.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: Zach.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: I go into uh a restaurant and they've got tennis up there playing, and I watch it.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's on, presumably because they don't know how to change the channel.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: Tennis is an amazing sport to play and to watch, and and I defy you to learn the rules of tennis and watch tennis and tell me that it isn't fun to to do.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's fun and soccer's fun, but those are all skinny people.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: They are.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: They're flat-chested, skinny people.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: Good God, David.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: Not touching that one, but you're a skinny person.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: You're a flat-chested skinny person, David.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I I'm 42 and I think I'm a pickleball person now.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: Fox hat comes off.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: All right, and we'll get Leroy in here to correct our uh misgivings upon this issue.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_03: Good, good.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: That light in the mood after those first two heavy stories that we had to trudge through.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: So um three things to know, Zach.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, put another dower on the mood.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh James Allen, the man who founded uh Columbus Sings Messiah, passed away Monday at age 87.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: A retired music educator from the W.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: Allen played the organ for the annual Christmas concert at Annunciation Catholic Church from its inception in 2001 through December of this past year.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: I've got to just give an ode to that man.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh he was my piano instructor at MUW for all five years of my undergraduate.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: And he broke me of my bad habits.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: He put up with my garbage, if you can imagine.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um he would sometimes come in and and he would notice that I would be practicing the wrong music.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: It was church music, but it was that that newfangled stuff.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't like Charlie Daniels.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh no, it was it was it was contemporary, you know, church music.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, this is junk.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: 7-Eleven music.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he was exactly, and he he was a fan of the hard stuff.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: And he pushed people Broadman Hymnel.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: And he he loved people, and I miss him greatly.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: Number two, Columbus and Lowndes County finally settled their months-long dispute over jail bills.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: The city has agreed to pay the county uh in the neighborhood of$321,000 in delinquent inmate housing costs dating back to March 2025.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: All other claims of unpaid city or county bills were canceled out as part of the settlement.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: Did everyone behave?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was almost like they should have done this months ago.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: Number three, happy 4th of July and happy 250th birthday to the USA.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: Celebrations in the Golden Triangle start Friday in Caledonia, while Columbus Air Force Base will host Freedom Fest from 2 to 10 p.m.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: Saturday.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: That will be an absolute blast.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: I hope all of y'all get to go to that.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: Have some fun with your family.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: Blow something up if you're not in the city limits.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: And if you are in the city limits, maybe go out to Freedom Fest, let them blow up something on your behalf, and have a good time.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: If you do blow up something in the city, let the bottle rockets land in somebody else's yard and blame it on them.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's that.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, before we go, Zach, I just want to give a shout out to Mr.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: Peter Imes, who has been elected as the president of the Mississippi Press Board.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm not sure what that entails, but that seems highfalutin, and I hope that's a good thing for the things that transpire here locally.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's um exciting.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: Also, uh on a similar note, we were talking about that crash that happened last year.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: Listeners, go back if you're not aware of that and listen to episode 26.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: That was one of our top episodes, if not the top episode, which, by the way, won an award at the Mississippi Press annual meeting.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: So hats off to us here in Catfish Alley Studio.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: You've been listening to Between the Headlines, and I'm glad you've been listening to us.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: Reach out to us, tips at cdispatch.com.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: You can also follow me on Facebook or ex at d Chisholm Double Zero and leave a public comment.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: Keeping it real here in Catfish Alley Studio and Historic Downtown Columbus.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: Your host has been Zach Player, and I am David Chisholm.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: Y'all stay friendly out there.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just a simple old country boy, but um, I think that makes sense.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've stepped out and I've said what I had to say.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: You've been listening to Between the Headlines with Zach and David.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's what old people do.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: That is.