Latest / Dark Night of the Podcast / Episode 190-Panic Room (2002)

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Episode 190-Panic Room (2002) · Dark Night of the Podcast

• Roger: Dark night of the podcast cohorts. It's been a minute. It's been a brief minute. As we said, we had some things coming up, including some film festivals, events that Troy and I attended. The Toronto ⁓ Indie Horror Film Festival was fantastic. We had ourselves a blast in Toronto. And there's been all kinds of things just going on, good things and bad things, happy things. and sad things. Before we even jump into discussing today's movie, because I think this kind of ties in in a way, I just want to acknowledge that Troy and I, both being filmmakers and collaborators, we work with a lot of the same people, but Troy and I recently experienced kind of a shocking loss of a friend and a fellow creative, a fellow collaborator, and somebody who has championed our podcast and actually wanted to record. I'm gonna cry. I wanted to record a new theme for us. And I think it's ⁓ kind of sad and worth acknowledging, because a lot of our listeners really have championed all aspects of our lives, including our film work. And I know a lot of our listeners are really excited for Troy's film, Hello Lake, which Michael Kohlbecker completely scored, beginning to end, sound design, audio work, all of that. Michael Kohlbecker did some amazing work on that film. And Michael Kohlbecker worked on my film, Meet, as well. He did all of the sound design and scored some major moments in the film as well. And that's how I got to know him. And luckily I was able to introduce him to Troy and we have been working together for several years now. And Troy and I talked to Michael Kohlbecker every day, every day. And Troy can attest to that. And I think it's just important to acknowledge someone who's been very supportive of us and we've been in very close proximity with, and our listeners will probably get to know better through his work. when they see our films. And I think they're gonna be pretty blown away by what this guy could do. So I just wanted to take a moment to acknowledge Michael and Troy, like I know you had an equally close relationship with him and anything that you wanna acknowledge about our friend and a fellow creative. TROY A ESCAMILLA: All I can say is that it was a huge shock and it's a huge, huge loss for us and for filmmakers in general because I really believe that when people hear what he composed for Hollow Lake and if you follow me on social media or you follow Hollow Lake on social media, you've gotten a taste of his scores, this beautiful, know, violin strings that really leaned into like the... ⁓ the country nature side of the film that I really was going for. He nailed it. Rodgers, 100 % correct. I talked to Michael every day for the past year and it wasn't always film stuff. I shared a lot of personal stuff that was going on in my life with Michael. He was in Germany. So there was that distance, but we still talked. We still zoomed. In fact, ⁓ a of days before we found out about his unexpected passing, me and him had did a zoom. meeting because we were talking about cutting a whole new trailer, like a full trailer for Hollow Lake. So it was quite shocking, quite devastating. He was a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful guy. So ⁓ introspective, creative. ⁓ And know that even just having Hollow Lake premiere at the Toronto Film Festival, Indie Film Festival, which wasn't a terribly huge crowd because it's a very intimate venue. I know that three of the filmmakers that were in attendance reached out to him. That's how much his score for Hollow Lake impacted them because they wanted to work with them. So it's quite sad. I'm devastated, but I am also blessed that we were able to cross paths with him, that he was able to channel such creativity and passion into both of our projects. And he was the utmost champion of both of our projects. So we just, yeah, we felt like it's really important to acknowledge Michael Kohlbecker and his contribution to us and our films. Roger: Yeah, raise a Diet Coke, at least in my case. TROY A ESCAMILLA: I have a have I have a sprite zero sugar winter spiced cranberry. I'm sure he would love that because he liked to drink wine and so it probably has probably closer flavor to wine than a diet. Roger: ⁓ he loved to drink wine. And don't we all love to drink wine? And I'll say one thing, know, working with Michael, to the extent I did on me, I really learned a lot about the importance and the intricacy of sound work overall and just how detailed it is, because he was a perfectionist and... He kept going over it and doing more and more work and more and more work and, ⁓ I'm done. ⁓ wait, Roger, wait, Roger, I have another update. And then he would all have more things that he did. And I had to be like, Michael, thank you. This is amazing. But we ⁓ press the brakes for a moment. ⁓ that's an amazing trait to find in someone. But I've been really noticing the audio work in a lot of films that I've been watching recently, just because, you he touched my life. He moved me. And I realized... how much of an impact he had on my film. And so I've been paying a lot of attention to the details of sound work. And I think the film we're covering today is a really good example of just how detailed and complex ⁓ design can be and the impact it can have on a piece of cinema. The film we're covering today is technically across the board really impressive, but the sound design, the sound work in this film ⁓ really enhances the overall experience. And so I just think that was a really nice little segue acknowledging the importance of sound work and the importance of Michael Kullbecker in our lives. But yeah, Troy, you had not seen this film before, is that correct? TROY A ESCAMILLA: No, and folks, if you remember our last episode, and Roger, it feels like it was months ago that we recorded. It just seems, and it was only like, three weeks ago? But so much has happened in our lives that it seems like it was, like, I'm like, oh my God, do we even have a podcast anymore? So we apologize. Our last episode was Green Room, and now we're transitioning into a Panic Room. And you guys, if you remember, I told you I had never seen it, but I had the DVD. And this weekend I had to message Roger a very sad picture, because I, Roger: Bye now. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Cause I dug my DVD out to watch it and I put it in my little DVD player and it would not play. And I was like, what the fuck's going on? I injected it and it was cracked. So in all of my moving from Iowa to Houston, to Houston, to Texas, to Vegas, it must've gotten cracked because you know, the, the DVD cover of panic room is not a traditional plastic case. It's a paper like cardboard case. So I'm assuming that's what happened. So I ended up just having to buy it on Amazon prime 799, whatever worth it. And Yeah, I had never seen it. I knew immediately I had not seen it. Roger: I have to ask you, know, a crack DVD that could be considered a bad omen, if you will. ⁓ did this feel like a cursed film or did you actually end up enjoying the experience? TROY A ESCAMILLA: absolutely not a cursed film. It's a film that is just technically this film is stellar. I will say ⁓ of the cinematography and camera work in this film is some of the best I've seen in a long time. There are shots that I was just like my jaw was on the floor is how they did this. But you have David Fincher. mean, David Fincher, ⁓ I is one of the best. living directors we haven't super underrated but think of the fucking movies he's given us. Seven, The Social Network, Gone Girl, Zodiac. mean the talent behind this film, the cinematographer Conrad Hall is the son of three time Academy Award winning cinematographer Conrad W. Hall I believe. So the talent, three Oscar winning actors, Forrest Whitaker, Jodie Foster, Jared Leto, an up and coming ⁓ star in Kristen Stewart. Just the talent alone in this film is really worth acknowledging, but I was more blown away by the technical aspects of this film. Roger: Yeah, you know, it's a simple, simple concept, the storyline at play here in Panic Room. But luckily you have this phenomenal cast that makes these characters all feel extremely complex. ⁓ And you don't need a ton of setup or storyline to just get immersed into their lives. And I've got to say, you know, Fincher, aside from having directed some of the most renowned films of our lifetimes, truly, I mean, if you think of his catalog, if you think of films like Fight Club and Zodiac, these are films with cult fan bases. These are films that are loved by people, but he's also directed many music videos. I mean, this guy directed ⁓ Express Yourself and Vogue, visually celebrated works. mean, music videos that have defined what it means to be a music video in general. And that element of style, I mean, it is on display in this film. This film, you're talking about how good it looks. I mean, the transitions in this film, they feel almost like something out of a music video. And I mean that in the best possible way because they're so smooth and intentional. And there are times that you're transported from room to room in the most like elaborate, like truly Spectacles. These are spectacles on display here and a lot of them are digital, but I don't even care because it's so impressive. So yeah, I'm happy to hear you bring up those points right away because those are the aspects that I think define this film and why this is such a loved film. And it's not truly horror, but it is a thriller and it has some moments that are shocking. And I think the horror aspects come from the sensation of like when you go to bed at night, the idea of someone entering your home. I can't think of anything scarier than that. It's terrifying. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ it's, ⁓ I always, it is terrifying. I always think about that. You know, I think about, live in, live, you know, I live in a fairly safe neighborhood, I think, but then you just never know. You just never know. when I had, I had my dogs, I would, know, I have a little dog park at the end of the block and I would take them out and use the garage door and I would leave the garage door open and walk down. And then it was always, it was always in my mind. What if somebody like, When I'm down there, it gets into my high. You just never know. But here's the thing. They, who this is, this is yes, by definition, this is a very simple setup. Like there's not a lot plot wise going on here. I think we can get into it because I think most of the conversation is probably going to lie on more of the technical stuff than maybe story because it really is a simple story. I mean, you start with. I love New York City, you know that you start with this, skyline of New York City and just the elaborate large block, you know, cast names and the thundering score already kicking into place. And the story basically, as we meet right away, Meg Altman played by Jodie Foster and this broad, is this her assistant or is this a real estate agent? This this high strong gal. I'm like, okay, we needed more of her. needed her. I needed her in that panic room with them. Roger: Yes. Lydia. You know, there's one complaint I've got about this film. It's the fucking hairstyles. I'm going to give it compliments across the board, but this gal with this harsh bang, just strutting up, fur-lined jacket. I mean, she makes a presentation right off the bat. And then you've got Meg and you've got her daughter, Sarah, with the same fucking haircut. Only Sarah's is a little more Diane Sawyer, if you will. Like a real weird haircut to put on a young girl. And knowing TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ God. Roger: that these are both lesbian women. Like, let's just acknowledge the elephant in the room, I suppose. Both cherished, celebrated lesbian women. And there are a lot of aspects of this film that it just feels like they're perhaps a couple with a severe age gap. Because Kristen Stewart, like, I think she's playing 11 or 12, but she feels like she could be 35. There's just a seasoned... aged wisdom that comes with Kristen Stewart and kind of that rough, gravelly voice that she has in that lower register, she very well could be Meg's young lover. But that's not the case, it is her daughter. TROY A ESCAMILLA: It really, I'm glad you say that because it really came across several times. was like, wait, this seems more like a couple than a mother daughter. like Kristen Stewart's, we're going to get into this, but like Kristen Stewart's character many times often takes on the role of the Dom ⁓ in the relationship. she has to tell her mother how to act and what to do. And it's just real odd. But the whole thing is They're going to look at this beautiful three story town home and then down in downtown Manhattan. ⁓ I don't even want to know how much this fucking thing costs. Cause you walk in this thing and it's massive and we know New York city is one of the most expensive. This had to been a $15 million thing. And when, when they ask, ⁓ Meg, what she does for a living, she says, ⁓ I'm going back to school to Columbia, she's also getting divorced from a pharmaceutical. guru named Steven, I guess has to be a millionaire and they're getting divorced so she must be getting alimony now that she can afford this huge place. But this place is fucking enormous. I kept thinking to myself, why do you need this big of a space for just you and your daughter? Like this is is way overkill way over. Roger: It's way overkill, but like as gay men, Troy, let's talk about this fucking brownstone because I, if I walked into that and I had any form of financial security, the house does the talking. It is stunning. I mean, it's all white walls and big windows and that dark wood staircase that goes up what, like three floors. Like it is grand. It is so grand and it's breathtaking. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ my god. three. Roger: And you don't feel like you would have that much space in New York, which they even mentioned that. But I think the story, for being a very simple story, the complexities, ⁓ do a really good job of weaving them into the dialogue. You're getting all of these key points just through very natural banter. ⁓ the agent Lydia, who's Meg, kind of gives some background story of ⁓ the gentleman that lived there previously having recently died and how he was apparently very wealthy and it doesn't feel heavy-handed it just feels very natural banter ⁓ and you do have a lot of really good dialogue sequences with these characters and that maintains through the whole film. The dialogue you get though the script is simple the dialogue is very on point very believable and really helps to flesh these characters out. TROY A ESCAMILLA: She also mentioned something really important just in casual dialogue. says, ⁓ yeah, his kids are suing each other over his estate and apparently half of his money has gone missing. That is a huge, huge key in the film. Okay. So even yeah, a little, little dialogue bits like that, that you might not think are important, but you realize, wow, this is, this is super important and super revealing. so they go out, they go, they check out the place, Kristen Stewart's character, Sarah's riding that fucking scooter all over those beautiful hardwood floors and the realtor has to yell at her, can't no scooter. ⁓ ⁓ there's a fucking elevator. go up to the finally they go up to the bedrooms because that one ⁓ gay real estate guys, like, want to show this home. Can we show? I mean, that's what I'm here for. So they go up there. They look at the bedrooms. Meg ⁓ observant because she notices the, like from the outside of the second bedroom, the space it takes up the room isn't as big. So she even says like, does this room seem weird to you, it shouldn't be bigger. And he's like, ⁓ I'm glad you asked. So he pulls open them. He opened like the mirror on the wall is actually a door behind this door. Roger is this elaborate fucking panic room that I would sleep in every night so that I know my ass. If somebody didn't break into my house, I'm not dying. But this thing, it's a separate, has its own ventilation system. It's steel. It has its own phone line. It has monitors that watch every inch of the house. It has an automated door with that fucking laser beam that, you know, if something is not laser, it won't close. I mean, it is elaborate and she is a little freaked out by it. Understandably. So especially when the door closes, she's like, ⁓ can you please open the door? I could, could tell she's like very unsettled. Roger: Well, there's a hint of claustrophobia that comes into play with Meg's character. And I like that they don't beat us over the head with it. You could just tell that she is not comfortable in confined spaces, but she has to overcome that fear as the evening progresses. ⁓ it is elaborate, but I give them credit in the sense of, with this big, beautiful house being the centerpiece of the film, they could have also build a panic room that was super posh and felt very cinematic and very polished, because it would have still fit the narrative of what's going on there. And I like that they took the gritty route. It is a cement box. It's got monitors. ⁓ are boxes of supplies. There's fire blankets. It all makes sense, everything that's in there. ⁓ it's not set up to be anything more than just a survival unit with like a pot to piss in and that's it. And I really appreciate that because when it does come into play as like the highlight focus of the film, I mean, it's the title of the movie, Panic Room, provides a very like gritty contrast to the just clean, crisp, white walled upper class like wealth of this brownstone. It's a really nice contrast and it makes it so that you never feel tired of the location that you're in because you really do not leave this location for the entire film aside from one weird little like final scene that's tagged on there. This is the focus you are in it and the entire story it's like a play. I'm shocked there's not a theatrical production. a panic room because it is really set up for it. It is just focused on this location and this panic room within it. So yeah, it's a really, really interesting aspect of it. And I see the fascination ⁓ with rooms. there's some people who ⁓ require them their homes. I get it. Life is scary. What you just said, Troy, I would be sleeping in every night. I would probably develop my own reclusive tendencies and just never leave it after a while. Cause at least I'd feel safe there. considering the world that we live in. So yeah, it's a really interesting concept because I can't really think of any other film that's done this or that's even focused around something like this. Like how could you, guess, though, after this film entitled Panic Room comes out. It's like one specific concept and it's specifically tailored for this film and it makes it feel very unique and unlike anything else I've seen. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah, yeah, it is a one location film and a very small cast. mean, the cast is like what the core cast ends up being like five people and you spend you spend a this film is almost two hours long. So you're spending a long time in this one location with these five characters, and it just makes it just that much more realistic and unsettling. She ⁓ the realtor, her realtor, Lydia, tells her, you know, you can afford this like I know they're going to take. asking price and I guess they do because we cut to them all moved in. It's their first night there their first night you think they should be I mean imagine this shit happened in the very first fucking night you move into your new house and this is how it goes down. But yeah you get you get a lot of little banter between Sarah and her mother Meg and you know Meg is concerned because she ordered pizza and she asked Sarah if that's all right. She's like, ⁓ maybe I should have got something more elaborate since it's our first night. And Sarah's like, no, I like pizza. And there's a moment of quiet between the two of them. then Sarah, keep in mind, Sarah's supposed to be 11 years old or whatever. Looks at her mom and says, fuck him. And Sarah says, well, yeah, I agree. But don't, and she's and fuck her too. Again, it comes off as more of like a couple. Right? This is something I wouldn't say this to my mom. I mean, I say to my partner if I knew he was struggling with, you know, something personal, but I'm not going to say it to my fucking mom, especially if I'm 11 years old. Roger: these women are talking about stenciling bookcases, so you don't get much more lesbian than that. Like, you're not selling me on the idea that Jodie Foster was just in a relationship with any man, especially when we end up seeing Steven. Like, if you're trying to sell me on the idea that Jodie Foster is a straight cisgender woman, then at least, make it somebody who seems somewhat desirable, but it looks like her grandfather. And I'm not going to judge that, but it's just a weird ⁓ dynamic, all of them. like, yeah, so the mother daughter relationship, it's weird, but I like them together. I like the chemistry and ⁓ feel that they're a very, very close mother daughter duo, you know? And so I buy it. I like the two of them playing off each other. They do like really strategically place some dialogue, like making it clear that ⁓ Sarah is diabetic, you know, and all of it is, ⁓ planted in their dialogue very strategically in a way that feels very natural. yeah, for these being like the main focus, these two being the main focus of the film, like casting wise, I don't think you could get any better. You just also couldn't get any less lesbian. TROY A ESCAMILLA: I was, well, here's the thing, a little bit of trivia. Do you know who was originally cast in both these roles? Yes, yes. You know who her daughter was gonna, was cast and dropped out? Hayden Pantier. Yes, yes. Yep. Yeah. Roger: Nicole Kidman was originally supposed to play Meg. Hayden Penetier? What? Hayden Penetier! Always welcome at this table, to be clear. But Hayden Penetier, a missed opportunity, truthfully. I really wouldn't have minded seeing when Hayden Penetier played this role, but there's something about that goddamn lesbian haircut on ⁓ Christian Stewart TROY A ESCAMILLA: Right? Roger: Just makes me love her. That damn scooter that she's much too old to be riding, but for some reason she's on it. Diabetes and all. So, ⁓ yeah, I think that we spend just enough time with them here to really get a grasp of where they're at in life. And you even have that one moment here where after they're getting settled in that you have Meg in bed and she cries to herself briefly. and there's not any dialogue. It's not like they do this deep dive into her psyche. You get just this brief moment with her having this kind of breakdown and it's just enough to understand where she's at with all of this, this recent divorce. TROY A ESCAMILLA: I also like the fact that, you know, it's only like maybe we're not even 10 minutes into the movie, but, a lot of stuff has been established that Sarah is like a protector of her mother has to take care of her mother, you know, because she knows the mother, Jodie Foster's character is going through like just emotional turmoil. And Sarah is even though she's 11 or 12, she is way, way more mature. And I like this. There's this one moment though, when Meg puts Sarah to bed. and starts to leave and Sarah stops her and says, mom, it's too dark in here. It just gives us a little bit of, I think, necessary tidbit to remind us this is still a kid, right? She's scared of the dark. As grown up as she acts, she's still a kid. She's still scared of the dark. It's just something really simple that I really appreciate it. Because she is a kid and for most of the movies, she's not really allowed to be a kid. They really make this. kids seem like she's an adult for 99.9 % of the movie. So Meg she has that moment where she cries in the bathtub, she's drinking some wine. When she's to set the alarm, she turns all the cameras in the panic room on and she can't figure out how to shut them off. So she's like, I'll just worry about it. ⁓ And it kind of goes dark for a moment and then it transitions and we see her clock. It's 1 23 AM and she's having a really hard time sleeping, tossing, turning. And you get this just. I mean, breathtaking camera shot and movement of the camera, pulling away from her bedroom, floating down the staircase. And then it goes through, it goes into the living room. to the windows and we right at the moment we see a car pull up and three men get out. And then it drifts over to the keyhole and we see it goes into the keyhole and we see somebody stick a keyhole in it and try to turn it. And the camera is just following these figures outside, upstairs, through everything that you get that one shot where it floats through the kitchen and the camera goes right through the handle of the coffee maker. It is so fucking cool. And it's just like very. It just flows so beautifully. But you're following as you see these men trying various ways to get into this house. But this shot was like when I saw this, like, holy shit, this is really impressive. Roger: There is usage of digital in this film, but because this film is very rooted in reality, it's not at all shocking or overwhelming when they do use it. ⁓ impressive. It is, it's actually quite breathtaking. a lot of these shots, ⁓ these fluid hovering shots, ⁓ there digital elements incorporated in them to make it possible. There are times that you zoom in on light bulbs, you go up wires. ⁓ Like said, you go through keyholes. but it's never offensive to look at. Like it always looks good. And so it's really impressive that that has maintained, that that has held up since 2002, testament to the team that worked on this film and the vision behind it. And that is the stylistic key of this film that I really think makes it stand apart from anything else is when it makes these really intentional choices, it is enhancing the mood, the atmosphere. the scope of the story in really intentional ways. And so, yeah, this is one of the greatest sequences in the film, but there are several more that kind of maintain this vibe. But I love the way that these, ⁓ mean, I'm gonna say villains, ⁓ that these three antagonistic figures are introduced because there's a lot of mystery behind it. As the camera's floating, you see silhouettes and shadows moving past windows. ⁓ see ⁓ know, tops of heads popping in through doorways. You see the silhouette of what ends up being goddamn Jared Leto with those goddamn braids looking up against the glass and you see his face ⁓ come into focus, but for a moment you can tell that it's him. And it's a very well-constructed introduction to what is the antagonistic force in this film. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah. Yeah. And then you, mean, yeah, you're following all of them. And then you get the one that goes up the fire escape and is able to get into the house. and it is ⁓ other than forest Whitaker with his lazy eye as he, ⁓ he enters the house and he stares down the hallway. and right away he notices there's a nightlight plugged into the bathroom. And then he walks a little farther, looks into the bedroom and sees Sarah sleeping ⁓ on bed. And you get that. Kind of like the famous, it's the cover of the DVD as well, but it's a really cool shot of the camera floats back into Meg's room where she's laying in bed and it rotates around her and you see his figure standing in the doorway behind her. just a silhouette and it's just so creepy because again, it's the idea of like, yeah, you're, you're, being invaded. Your house is supposed to be your safe haven. This is their first night here and you just never know. ⁓ it's, it's, it's, it's unsettling. Roger: This is also where I want to point out some of the sound work, because there's little details here that are so specific, but so greatly like elevate the material. Like when Meg's laying on the bed and she's having trouble sleeping because her stomach is like bothering her and she grabs a water and she comes back and you can kind of hear just like the muffled sounds of her like rolling around in bed and she doesn't even hear the sound of the door slowly creak open behind her because of just the audio surrounding her and it's so subtle, but it's so specific and it makes it just all make sense. You completely understand why she doesn't even realize this is happening. She's just kind of caught up in this moment. So yeah, every little footfall, every creek of wood, it's all so beautifully placed here. you know, I always say it, I said it when we covered Silent Night, Deadly Night 3, but. I'm here for the lazy-eyed voice, being one myself. I feel like Forrest Whitaker and I have something in common because we have a very similar heavy lid. And ⁓ he stares at me, I feel like he's staring into my soul. ⁓ I love seeing Forrest Whitaker. I love that moment with the simplicity of the nightlight, because he sees it you can tell right away, he's like, something ⁓ off. Just the simplicity of a children's nightlight. ⁓ It just is so well played. But yeah, great introduction. to these characters. It's such a great sequence. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ yeah, well then he goes downstairs and lets in who we find out is Junior played by Jared Leto and a mysterious person who was not supposed to be there who wears a mask for 99 % of the film. It's Raul ⁓ played by country superstar Dwight Yoakam which hey Dwight well he was great in Sling Blade and he's actually pretty fucking great in this. He's really just kind of intimidating like Roger: He's intimidating and he's all in. Like, well, this guy gets roughed up. And when this guy gets roughed up, I buy it. Like, I mean, this guy has some bad shit happening to him. And I feel every moment of pain that this guy's going through. So yeah, I mean, again, across the board, the cast is fantastic. You know, Jared Leto. is a tough pill to swallow. And at most projects that he's in, he's one of those actors that needs everything he does to be like a me moment. And like, you know, sometimes I love him, sometimes I hate him. This film, because of the character and what this character needs, the traits it needs to embody, ⁓ I buy that a lot of that probably is Jared Leto. So it feels like very authentic, this character, but those goddamn braids. Can you imagine being the hair technician who has to apply those braids to damn Jared Leto? It's just such a weird, shocking look. it feels very much like, there's like just a weird cultural thing about it, because he's such a white boy and his hair does not look like it should be in cornrows. It's like silken and it just feels so shocking. It's very jarring when he comes into frame and he's got his very prominent cornrows. So like, mean, whatever. It is the era that feels very 2002. TROY A ESCAMILLA: also want to know how these three got together because these three are just not the most compatible. They don't work together very well. So I'm like, how did they end up together? Like, I don't understand it. But Jared Leto, yeah, his character is a hard pill to swallow. He's super obnoxious, like overly hyper. ⁓ He gives the character a lot of just... just obnoxiousness, the way he talks, he just very animated. but Burnham tells them that they can't do this. That there are people there. I mean, what the hell you told us that the, the, the, the residents weren't supposed to be here for another week. And he's like, Oh, there's not supposed to be your escrow should take F score should take three weeks. And they get into this big argument and Raul just standing there. Um, and junior's like, we can still do this. Right. Why are you? says, yeah, it's just a woman and a child. ⁓ And Burnham who is with this character says, like, what does she has a gun? And Rao opens ⁓ his ⁓ jacket to he a gun. Like he brought a gun to this. Like this wasn't supposed to ever get to be where you needed guns or you needed to do all this. And Burnham just wants to go. He's like, I'm done. I'm not, we're not doing this if people are here. ⁓ Junior convinces him to stay because there's three million dollars there and they all need the money. So Burnham considers this and he tells them to kill the phones So he's gonna go ahead and they're gonna go through with this Roger: love this one moment, like in the midst of their bickering, because all these men do is bicker as these women work together in unison to get shit done. And I really love that dynamic. But as these men are bickering, Raul makes a statement and Burnham is like, who are you? And Raul's like, I'm Raul. Like, is the character though. there's this ⁓ element of mystery where he's just been kind of introduced into it. And you can tell Junior is the one who obviously got this ball rolling, you come to learn a lot more about Junior and his relationship to just the situation. You find out that he's related, of course, to the recently deceased. He knows more about what's in this house than the other two guys. He's keeping secrets. You learn a lot of things along the way. But I totally buy that Junior is the kind of cokehead, ⁓ ⁓ cokehead. Who? hired these random guys without actually communicating, coordinating with anybody, just hired this muscle on to get this done without even properly assessing the situation. He's talking like he knows what's going on regarding these individuals moving into this house and how escrow works and everything, but he really doesn't have any idea. And it's because of this lack of communication and camaraderie between these three. they're kind of their own downfall. they do not get along, they are fighting throughout the whole film. And it's oftentimes that the females in this movie ⁓ those moments to their advantage and ⁓ plot and get things done while these guys are just butting heads the whole time. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ absolutely. Yes. These, these three guys are, are responsible solely for what happens to them. these three should have never ⁓ put together ⁓ do anything, let alone something like this, like a heist, like a robbery. ⁓ so Meg is pissing, and she goes back into her bedroom and she gets back in bed, but the light to the panic room is now, is now bothering her. So she walks into the panic room and she goes to look at the cameras, the monitors. And I mean, this would, I mean, imagine seeing this Roger, ⁓ you walk into your, and you look down at your monitors and you see there's three men coming up the stairs. ⁓ yeah, I'm slamming it yet. But, but like one, ⁓ one of them kicks that ball and it falls down the stairs. So now they know that she's alerted and she actually darts to Sarah's bedroom and they see her and she's trying to get Sarah up. Roger: Sarah, I wish you the best. You will be missed. And slam that door shut. Good luck. TROY A ESCAMILLA: She has to pour water in Sarah's face. There's like, why'd you do that for? She's like, get up, get up. I mean, you get this pretty intense chase scene. there's three guys chasing these, these two ⁓ you know, a woman and a child. ⁓ you know, ⁓ just ⁓ Everything they do. It's like just in time, they get in the elevator and it's just in time. They get up the L they, they, they stop the elevator because Sarah mentions ⁓ we go to that. What about that panic room? Stop the elevator, the emergency, stop the elevator and take it back up. And the guys are again, they're running downstairs. They're running upstairs. They're trying to track them. They get out of the elevator. and they, they do run into, Raul who's like, what are you doing? Stop. And the girls dart into that fucking panic room ⁓ in time. Again, they slammed that door right before ⁓ junior can get there. ⁓ But it is intense. it's a pretty intense chase scene and they get it. Like I said, they get in just in time and now they're in the this fucking panic room for an hour and 45 minutes. Roger: I mean, this is a sequence that gets your heart racing. Again, I want to point out the sound design because as the men are making their ways up the staircase and they're moving slowly, quietly, and they hear Meg get up moving around, you can hear her footfalls softly, and then there's that great moment where she sees them in the house and they hear her running across the floor. And it's such an epic house, but the audio here is such a present aspect of what's making it all possible. Because she has a head start ahead of them. You know, she's already up on the staircase, they're trailing behind her. Thank God she gets in that damn elevator. There's that amazing shot. It's a split screen, but it's really strategically played where you have Jared Leto, because he's like watching the elevator come down. He's trying to open the door and, you know, he can't open it. It locks without ⁓ the person inside of it releasing the gate. And so he's trying to open the door and you see him like up against the door with his foot on it, trying to pull it open as the elevator makes its way down, like slowly down. And it's just this beautiful shot. I'm so in love with this shot. But yeah, these girls are smart and you're right. They make it in that room just in the nick of time. They're pulling back the blankets and everything, but they're working together and they do get it done. Like they're successful. So now they're in there and through these next few moments, you really learn the reason for Burnham being part of this group is because he has experience working on this specific type of panic room. He's helped build these houses and work on this technology. And that's such a vital aspect of this story because he is the most reluctant. He doesn't want to hurt anybody. You learn that if anyone in this group has a conscience, it's him. ⁓ but it's also like his tech savvy, his understanding of this software, how it's installed, how it operates is just such a vital tool. And that's why Junior really needs him. but the issue that comes to play here is for Burnham's like sensible approach to things. I mean, as sensible as you're going to get with a fricking home invasion, you have Raul who starts to prove himself to be a ⁓ of a live wire and he's ⁓ He doesn't care so much at all about what happens to these women. They seem very disposable and his dialogue is makes that very clear pretty much from the get-go. Like he doesn't care about them. They are able to be disposed of if needed. And a lot of this becomes Burnham and Raoul kind of butting heads over this because Burnham clearly has an issue with hurting people. He says it multiple times throughout the course of the film. He doesn't want to hurt anybody. So it is an ⁓ unexpected redeeming quality in one of these antagonists. He is in a way, he's almost like an anti-hero, if you will. and that maintains through the rest of the film. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah, he works for Manhattan security company. When they get into the panic room, she tries to grab the phone, but she realizes she only hooked up the main line, not the phone in there. And so at the same time, the guys are arguing downstairs, like what are they going to do? And what if she calls the police? And he tells Burnham, she can't call the police. I checked the records. She only had the main line hooked up. This one wasn't. And you get that moment where she sees the interview or the intercom button. And Sarah encourages her to ⁓ use it. So She pushes the enter con button and tells them she called the police. Burnham actually messes, you motions to her that you did not call the police because you don't have a phone. ⁓ And there's this whole moment where she's like, get the fuck, get out of my house. And Sarah says, fuck. And she's like, fuck. No, she's like, mom, no, say get the fuck out of my house. ⁓ Get the fuck out of my house. Junior gets some paper and writes on it that's basically what they want. She's like, because she does tell them, take what you want and get out of the house. And so junior writes, what we want is in that room. Okay. ⁓ And she's we're not coming out. Fuck you. Burnham laughs and Raul was like, what's so funny? And this is when he reveals he spent 11 years building these rooms ⁓ and to people like them out. So ⁓ they can't out. He, he assures Raul and junior that they cannot get in this room. They can not get them out. The only way that this is going to work is if they get them out of that panic room. And, so his plan is we're going to, once they're out of that room, we're going to make sure they can't leave this house. We're going to, we're going to lock all the doors and do everything so that they can't leave. If they get out of that room. So he goes and gets like his tools and stuff and they literally start like nailing doors and windows shut so that if the girls do get out that there's no way they're going to be able to leave through the doors because they're nailed shut. Roger: the decisions that are made throughout the course of this film, both on behalf of the villains and on behalf of the heroes, ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ smart that, the fact that they're locking them in, that's terrifying. ⁓ The issue that the villains have is that... they just have this inability to work together to pull things off. They're always a step behind. But this whole scenario now trapping these women inside so they can't get out, even if they do get out of that panic room, where are they going to go? ⁓ Is truly a horrifying scenario? And it's captured so well through these monitors. know, there's such a prevalent aspect of this film because for a ⁓ big of the film, the only time these girls see these men is through this back and forth correspondence. And it's worth noting that Meg has the ability to speak to them, but they cannot speak to her. It's not like an intercom system. I think there's one in the bedroom, but other than that, the men can only like write on these signs, mouth things, but it does give this whole thing this element of like mystery and like just complete like confusion because they don't really have a proper way to communicate with one another. So the men are plotting one thing, the girls are plotting something else, the girls don't know if these guys can actually get in, so there's this whole element of ⁓ shit, ⁓ are they going to do to get in here? And then you also have Meg's claustrophobia kind of coming into play. And again, they don't really force that narrative, they don't beat us over the head with it. But there are several moments where she's panicking a bit. And you had mentioned this earlier, Troy, like Sarah has to be the one to be like, Hey, hey, we've got this. Like we're cool. We're going to figure this out. and that is a cool approach for mother daughter scenario, you know, to have the mom be the one that's having to overcome something. Whereas the daughter, her issue is her diabetes. And it is worth noting that ⁓ when they from the upstairs, she had a little fridge. beside her bed where she had a bottle of water and she had her medication. So that's been left upstairs and through their dialogue and the little watch on Sarah's wrist, ⁓ that starts to come up more and more. ⁓ how are you doing? How are you feeling? Are you tired? Are you hungry? That becomes a really important factor here in a little bit. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ yeah. Because her, her blood sugar levels are definitely, going off the chain as, as the events spiral. And that's kind of scary. Cause like you said, her medication, her water is outside. ⁓ nothing inside this panic room as far as like food or anything. and also when, when they got into the panic room, remember, junior freaked out and flipped all the furniture, bedroom furniture over and her cell phone was sitting on the thing and that got flipped over. ⁓ And now we get a moment that just shows how Raul is just. Unhinged because he starts bashing the ceiling with a sledgehammer and they're like, Whoa, what are you doing? We're not destroying the place. It's like, Oh, we're going in from the bottom up. And Burnham's like, no, absolutely not. That's not going to work because the whole bottom is steel. And he's like, well, I'm going to at least try. And he's just beating the shit out of the ceiling with a sledgehammer. Burnham is looking outside. He notices that pro. pain grill that's sitting out there. in the panic room, I guess they, the, the, this, these are town homes. So they're connected, you know, to other building, to other ⁓ units next them. So they start screaming for the neighbors, as loud as they can, but it's not really doing anything because they're in this steel enforced room. I will say. give Burnham a lot of credit, although I mean, this makes him, it is really hard to, it's one of those characters that we've talked about much like, ⁓ well, Emma Jean's poots character in Green Room. Kind of the same thing, right? You want a root for him. There's an element of, this person has a moral compass or this person is having, Roger: Yeah. TROY A ESCAMILLA: doubts but then does things or is involved in things that are not so great and what he does here is smart but ⁓ know this could have some drastic effects and it actually does but it's he basically gets this propane tank he he knows he figures out where the ventilation system is and the pipes for this panic room so they cuts into the wall drills into the pipe and hoses propane into that fucking panic room. He's going to try to like gas them out of this panic room. This is again, by the end of the film, Burnham does a lot of things right, but some of his decisions are pretty pretty ghastly because this could have ended up killing these women Roger: Yeah, it's pretty awful and it makes these men just seem dastardly and like, you know, he has doubts, but he also is still very much in cahoots with them, at least at this point. I do want to acknowledge, as he's hammering through the wall, there's this really cool shot ⁓ the women are starting to, listen to them working around this panic room. They could hear them hammering, though it's coming from deep, deep behind all this cement, but it, zooms in on the wall and you see, the cement just starting to crumble just a little bit. It's such a specific little detail, ⁓ but I like it. But yeah, so the women are screaming through this wall. Realizing that there's no way anyone's going to hear them and there is that one specific like there's like a tiny little vent that Sarah finds on the floor that where you can kind of push it back and and actually like see the outside and so ⁓ here is ⁓ a series of really cool decisions as well just because they start to Basically like come up with an idea of like how can we get someone to see us or hear us through this tiny little vent? But this vent does also serve another purpose coming up here because as this gas starts to fill the room, they obviously start to smell it. And so Meg climbs up and she gets like hit in the face with like this wave of gas. And so they have to be proactive pretty quick. She grabs duct tape and starts duct taping over the vents. like, it's just a series of really in the moment decisions that everyone has to make and it keeps happening. As things unfold, people just have to act in the moment. And I've got to give both these girls credit. They make a series of just really smart, intentional decisions that do them really well. These aren't individuals who are trained to survive. It's not like they are like, ⁓ my God, what's her name from ⁓ You're Next? The lead heroine in You're Next, I'm blanking on it. ⁓ TROY A ESCAMILLA: Sean events and Aaron was an Aaron. Roger: Yes, Erin, Charney Vincent, and you're next. Like, you you put her in a situation like this and she's built to destroy these fuckers. These are just two gals, one of which was married to an elderly ⁓ citizen. ⁓ these are just two everyday women who really have never had to do something like this, or I'm assuming they haven't. So I just got to give them credit because like what they do here, the Morse code bit and everything coming up. It's all really smart, you know? TROY A ESCAMILLA: Well, yeah, and how they keep in mind they know they're watching the monitor so they know that they're being that propane is being hosed into the room and like yeah, she's she's climbing up there. She gets ⁓ Sarah down on the ground and gives her that fire blanket and she digs through stuff and she finds that lighter. It's like a grill lighter. You know what I'm talking about the long lighter and she I mean she tells Sarah put this over you she grabs one and gets up there and she puts it down through the vent and starts to light it and the guys are hearing and they're like, what is that noise? Cause they, they can hear the clicking and burn them like get, turn the gas off, keep them. ⁓ one thing here is we forgot to mention again, this is ⁓ diabolical Raul is because he, he wants, he has the gas full blast and they're telling him, turn it down. You're going to kill them. Like if they, he's like, ⁓ no, I don't care. They won't die. They won't. He was like, yes, if they pass out, we're not going to get into the room. Turn it down. He's like, no, don't fucking touch me. Because that moment where Burnham like shoves them and tries to get the gas turned down. But anyways, it doesn't matter because when that she when that fucking lighter lights, we get that CGI fire, that blue CGI fire that just goes through, explodes out the vent, fucking burns Gerald Leto's side of his face, catches his arm on fire that the propane tank goes spinning around and hits the fucking ceiling. The gals are fine because they get immediately on the ground and cover themselves with that fire blanket But we do see that big blue flame just kind of cover the ceiling of the panic room But super super smart decision on their end Roger: When this film came out, I remember this scene was one of the most advertised moments in the film. And like, is it digital? Digital fire? Yes. Yes, it's definitely blue digital fire. It's very blue. But there's something about it that I'm fine with it. I think it's just how well the sequence is shot. And that epic shot of the women dropping on the floor under that blanket as the ceiling is engulfed because they've got that air current on the floor at least. So all of the fire like... gets caught up on the ceiling and gets sucked out through the vents on the ceiling. So they were really smart with how they handled this. But for a moment, you can tell it's digital. when he's moving his arm, thrashing his arm, and it's blue fire on his arm, ⁓ it look digital, but it still works. It holds up way better than a lot of the digital fire I had seen from that era. And I'm not gonna ding it for it. Like it really, it's not so bad it takes me out of it, you know? TROY A ESCAMILLA: No, it's a, it's a really cool sequence. ⁓ I really like how this plays out and I liked kind of the battle of the wits. These guys think that they just have this, this, this mother and her child in this room, but they're realizing, Hey, we picked the battle with probably the wrong people now, ⁓ because Raul wants to talk to junior alone. So he takes, Junior down the steps. Cause Burnham even goes down and goes to follow him. He's like, no, not you. ⁓ he is. basically saying this is way out of control. I want a third of whatever's in that room now. I, I, ⁓ I'm screw $100,000. I want a third of whatever it is. And he's also at the same time. And I'm like, dude, really he's trying to convince junior that Burnham is the problem. I'm like, Burnham is the one that has made decisions that are actually good. Trying to get, trying to achieve your goals. You're the one that's fucking unhinged. Like, but he's like, yeah, if he touches me again, I'm going to shoot him. And they're like, dude, you are. Yeah, you need to go. That would have been the moment I was like, you know, go, go, because this guy just gets more and hinges as the film goes on. That's we do get the moment at the same time. Sarah does look out that little ⁓ hole that leads to the outside. She sees the neighbor sleeping on the couch. So she uses the flashlight to try to do SOS. They do it for a long time. The dude finally wakes up and I just love that he looks over and he sees it. But he just closes this curtain. He's like, fuck this. Roger: Another very digital moment as you see like the light flickering and it looks very CGI, but still the sequence is so good. I can look past it because ⁓ a moment you almost think that he's going to respond to them because he's like looking around from his window and then he pulls down the blinds and they're like, ⁓ God, no. ⁓ As whole thing is kind of going back and forth between the two parties, ⁓ you some very Jared Leto acting. I'm not saying he's bad, but Again, he's very obnoxious and when he's having a tantrum, it's so animated ⁓ and works, but it's also like, it feels almost kind of desperate, ⁓ this is my moment. So I'm going to do the utmost, ⁓ the most with the most I possibly can. it works. I still enjoy it, but it does just feel very much like a Jared Leto moment. but I do love the, the burn effect that they use on his face. it's not overdone. he had his face up against the wall, he was listening for what they were doing ⁓ when fire explosion happened. so a part of his face is a pretty bad burn where areas are like blistering. It has to be at probably a severe second degree burn across his jaw and his cheek and up around his eye. And it looks great, like really looks good. ⁓ And ⁓ the movie does of several specific moments where they do utilize. some practical effects. And I do have to say, when you do see something happen in this film, when you do see some viscera, it's very realistic and very effective. They do great, great work with the few practical effects you actually see. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah. Jared Leto's character is really whiny now because he's like, you're not, you don't deserve a third. Fine. You want a third? I'll give you a third. then through this conversation with junior, we, learn that he is the grandson of the previous owner. And because he's telling junior, I'm the one that had to come here every day and take care of him. I'm the one, you know, I'm the grandchild that had to come in. None of my other siblings helped us. So Burnham is at the top of the stairs listening and he hears junior say that if if Burnham touches them again, he's going to shoot him. So he goes down to interject, right? So the, all three guys are now engaged in this argument. Meg watches this on the monitor. She knows that she left her cell phone right outside the door. The guys are no, they there's they're on the staircase. So she takes a chance to leave the room. She's like, if I don't come back, shut the room, shut the, shut the door. tells Sarah, this would have worked perfectly if. Jared Leto's character hadn't destroyed the bedroom when they got in there. He threw a fit because she could have just ran, grabbed their phone, ran right back in. But now that everything's overturned, she has to look for the phone. The phone fell under the bed, which is the bed is overturned. So she's trying to, to get the phone. And as she's trying, she knocks that fucking lamp over alerting guys that she's out of the room. They dart up the fucking steps. And in another moment of pure luck, She's able to grab a hold of the phone and get right into that room and shut the door right before they get it. Roger: It's all executed in this really effective slow motion, which I think really just adds to the moment for me at least, because the sound drops out and it's just silent. And it really just makes it feel like a moment. ⁓ And you the shot of her making the run and you see the men's faces turnover, Forest Whitaker's face right up in the camera, like shock on his face. ⁓ And then they start moving the steps and your heart's beaten. They're like, girl, you only have so much time. She sees the phone under the bed. She's reaching for it. And like, yeah, she barely makes it. And the guys of course are freaking out because they're like, she got something. We don't know what she got, but she got something. just, yeah, it's a really well-played moment. They sprinkle these intense moments of just tension and suspense so well throughout this simple storyline. It's one night, but when they do... choose to make it an event like something big happening in the film, they really take their time and they make it feel like something special. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah. they do realize that she got her phone because they see that the charger ⁓ they knew the phone was on her charger when that when the whole room was over flipping out. So they ⁓ but again, who knows these these structures, he's like, she's not going to able to call anyone. ⁓ And Raul's do you know? He's like, you cannot get a signal in that room. So we're fine. So inside the panic room, they are right. She can't get a signal. But she realizes Roger, yes, I did not have this particular line in here hooked up, but I did have the main line hooked up. If we can cut into it, maybe we can call. I would have never thought of this. I'm wondering would a, I'm sorry. ⁓ I don't know that a normal person would think of this. Do you know what I mean? This is the one moment of the film that I did find a little bit far-fetched and just like, ⁓ this is a plot thing because no person would think to do this. I wouldn't even know this was possible. ⁓ I it maybe like, I don't know what Sarah's background is. it would have been, if we would have found out, ⁓ she used to work for the phone. I don't know. ⁓ I would found this a little bit more believable, but like most middle-aged ⁓ mothers aren't know. how to do does that make sense or am I far-fetched? Roger: It does make sense. I guess I chalked part of it up too. it's 2002. I think at that time, landlines were just more. prevalent in our society. now, they barely exist. So I'm wondering if it maybe was something that she was just going off of the idea that people have said ⁓ if you wired in, you can make any phone work, you know? ⁓ Cause she even says like, like, as they're like, they, they rip these cords out of the wall and she's like, I don't know what I'm fucking doing. She says it, she's like, I don't know, but like, I'm going to give it a shot because yeah, it does seem a little far fetched, but. Hey man, desperate times, I guess, right? Desperate times. Gotta make something work. TROY A ESCAMILLA: I guess, but they know what she's up to somehow because he can hear the rumbling of the wires on the phone jack. And when he pulls that thing back, that box, he sees that there's a phone jack there. So he's like, me my screwdriver. So he starts to unscrew the phone jack where the wire is. And he's like to Junior, he's like, when I told you to cut the line, did you cut the actual main line or did you just cut the cord in the kitchen? And you see Junior just like, ⁓ And all of a sudden, before you can do anything. Yeah. Meg yanks that fucking core ⁓ of the wall. So he can't get to it. And you do get that moment where they're like, ⁓ fucking shit. What is she doing? They rushed down into the, to the basement to find the main line. She has Sarah rip the phone off of the wall. They, they stripped the wires, but keep in mind, this is just the receiver with ⁓ wire on it. Again, I did not know that this you could do this. I would have not never thought about this. So they stripped the wires and they connect the phone to the. to the wire, the main wire, and the phone works. They get a dial tone. I'm like, okay, that's, I did not know that. And they call 911. Roger, okay. What fucking 911 service puts you on hold? Like you call, apparently you call, I was like, what the fuck? You call 911 for an emergency, like an emergency. Before May can even get anything out, the operator's like, please hold. Roger: New York. TROY A ESCAMILLA: What if she was being murdered? Like, you're just gonna... ⁓ Roger: Please help me! No, I mean, I think it was kind of a joke on the fact that in New York, the police always take hours. They even say that one point that the police won't even arrive for two hours. ⁓ But yeah, was, it's kind of a little bit of a gag there on purpose, I think. And then we've seen that trope before where like people call 911 and then you just have hold music and they're like, ⁓ my God! ⁓ But ⁓ TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah. Well, and also, you know, you know, there's that famous case out of New York, because it's like the bystander kind of syndrome, that very famous case out of the New York in the 60s of Kitty Genovese, you know, I'm talking about where she was brutally murdered over the course of like two hours outside of an apartment. It's like 70 people heard it and nobody called the police. Nobody helped her. So I do think that, you know, when you, when you think of New York and people being so just Roger: Yeah. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Oblivious or unwilling to help like the neighbor just shut in his curtains I do think it kind of maybe is a little wink at that because that is a really famous case so Sarah's like screw this call dad. So she calls dad the fucking ⁓ mistress we have keep in mind he left Jodie foster for a we never see her I'm assuming, you know, I don't know what she looks like. She sounds like she's ⁓ Roger: Mm-hmm. Yeah. A whore! That's what she is! TROY A ESCAMILLA: The wife, the new wife answers and she's like, put Stephen on the phone. She's like, do know what time it is? like, put them on the phone, bitch. And she gets Stephen on the phone and she's like, Stephen, you got to help us. There's three men in the house. And before she can say anything else, the guys destroy the main phone panel and it And you get that moment where Meg is like, ⁓ He's going to help us. He's going to help us. And Sarah's like, no, he's not. She won't let us. It's like, yes, yes, she will. And Meg snaps at Sarah for saying that her dad's not gonna help them. And then she apologizes and Sarah says, no, don't apologize. I was gonna tell you something that I'm kinda scared to tell you. She's like, what? She's like, oh, I'm getting tired and dizzy. I'm getting hungry and dizzy. Well, we see that her blood sugar levels have dropped tremendously. So they start to forage for snacks. I would think one thing this panic room would have ⁓ be ⁓ don't think it would have like a crate of bottled water and food, non-perishable food? I mean, what good is a room that you're going to have to maybe be stuck in for a while if you have no, not just, again, not just, makes sense to me. I like, feel like a real panic room would have food and ⁓ nourishment. I don't Roger: Star Crunch bars or something, which I had when earlier was delicious. And I was like, this is a panic room staple, I feel. But yeah, no, there's several boxes there and all of these kind of weird moments ⁓ do feel kind of like, ⁓ wouldn't it make sense if this was the case? They play it off very well because there's a lot of just confusion and desperation. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Ugh, I love those. Ugh, so my favorite. Roger: you you've got Sarah opening all of the boxes, ⁓ she's for food, clearly. ⁓ And a lot of frustration because you've got to keep in mind, they just moved into this location. There's nothing but some boxes full of basic things in this room. But other than that, ⁓ like monitors just got turned on, you know? So nothing is really set up. ⁓ And does add to the overall fear factor in the house is overall, like these... two women are not really in any way set up or armed to have the tools to fight back. their house is ⁓ furnished ⁓ There's a couch downstairs and it's still wrapped. ⁓ And does add a little bit believability factor as to why some of these spaces or why some of these aspects, the phones, all of this aren't really working in their favor. ⁓ It's not they've been in this location for six months. ⁓ So I can kind of like brush some of this off because it just, it feels like it adds to it for me, you know? TROY A ESCAMILLA: I feel like the panic room would be furnished by the previous owner anyway. mean, everything in there, I think was already in there. there's boxes with fireproof blankets, things like that. But it just like ⁓ the common thing or the most basic thing you would need in a panic room food is nowhere to be found. ⁓ Junior now Roger. mean, he is. Defeated. He's like, there's no way we are getting into this room. I don't need to be involved with this anymore. This is aggravating. On Monday, I'm just going to call, ⁓ call the report where the safe is. We'll get the money. We'll inherit it. He's like, yeah, I'm gonna have to split it with, with, with seven of my siblings or seven of my, of, you relatives. But he's like, I'll still get about $900,000. Well, that was a big oops. Right. Because they're like, what did you just say? And he's like, what, what are you talking about? What did you just say about the money? Because conveniently. Junior told the other two guys that there was only $3 million in there and they're thinking, you just said you're going to get $900,000 and if you split it seven ways, like that's a lot, way more money than 3 million. trying to screw us? And junior's like, you know what? Fuck you guys. It doesn't matter anyways, cause you're none of you are getting it anyways. And he's, he goes to leave and, Burdham's like, fine. You, if you walk out of this house, You are not getting anything. I opened the safe. I keep it. I split it with Raul and he's like, and if a cop shows up on my doorstep, I know who called them and I will find you. And he's like, okay, whatever, whatever, whatever you, you do that. Burn them. You see you later, Raul. And he opens the door to leave and Raul takes out that fucking gun. and shoots him in the fucking head! I was shocked! Roger: It's shocking. And I know you're not always a fan of gun usage, but this is not horror. This is thriller. So in that moment, it is, ⁓ is a startling moment. in really your jaw drops, especially because at this point, it's not any one character, both hero nor villain has. been cemented as the focus. yes, obviously Jodie Foster is ⁓ the heroine in this film, but her daughter has, I would say for the most part, equal screen time. You know, she's up in it. And there are things that happened to Sarah that it's not like she's just the helpless kid. there are times that Sarah has to step up to the plate with the men, same, it is very evenly dispersed amongst them, the responsibilities. their involvement. So you almost don't even think ⁓ it's in a way that people are going to start dying. So when Jared Leto gets his head blasted and he drops in dramatic fashion, his body like spins, it is shocking. And then what makes it worse, Raul stepping up and dealing a double blow. he full on executes him ⁓ and you realize in that moment just how unstable Raul really is. And so does Burnham. mean, Burnham is just like, gate mouthed in shock watching this unfold. So yeah, it's really a shocking moment and then it raises the stakes. now it's clear, okay, people can die in this film. This is going to go there. There's not a ton of violence and a ton of gore, but when it does go there, ⁓ it makes it rather shocking. Yeah, it left my jaw on the floor. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah, this is what the film needed at this point because yes, it's been a very suspenseful film. It's been very thrilling. like Burnham and Junior did not seem like they were going to be violent. they didn't have any interest in hurting ⁓ this mother and her child. Raul seemed unhinged, you know, throughout the full film. But this is the moment where we're like, ⁓ shit, this guy is willing. to kill, and kill, kill the guy that was ⁓ him to even be part of this. Like what, what the fuck? Like ⁓ shocking, but then yeah, pulling him in, shooting me in the face again. And he even says to burn him, you should see the look on your face. And now Burnham is like, I'd be, if I was burning, I'd be scared. I would, I don't know. This guy could snap at any time. Right. And it just so happens at the same moment, who comes walking in the fucking door. Elderly Steven and yes, this looks like Jodie Fosher's great grandfather. I are we trying to insinuate that she's a gold digger because this man is clearly three times her age. He can barely walk. he's in the doorway and he's like, what's going on? And they drag him in and again, Burnham wants to be like, just bring him in to spur, but Raul immediately starts like beating the shit out of this poor old man. Roger: This senior citizen comes out of nowhere and it is shocking when he's introduced. You're like, ⁓ my God, there's a guy in the doorway. But you ⁓ definitely think it's gonna be her ex-husband. I thought it was ⁓ a nosy or something someone who was just gonna be disposed of right away. And no, it ends up being her husband and you are like her ex-husband, but you're like, wait, what? ⁓ Wait, you're telling me that this is who Jodie Foster was weeping about in the bathtub hours ago? Like, I mean, come on, girl. Carolyn Levitt shit going on where the husband could very much be. her grandfather and just, it creates this weird ⁓ underlying layer questions that I have through the rest of the film because Stephen remains in the house and he plays a ⁓ pretty major throughout the conclusion of the movie. But I can't stop like looking at him and saying, this is the guy? this is the man? ⁓ It just, it's ⁓ TROY A ESCAMILLA: And he has a 10 year old daughter. So he had a daughter when he was like 70 because this, yes, this man is, and the lighting doesn't do him any favors. Yes, this man looks ancient and I'm not, whatever. People have their own, know, people like, some people like older people. don't know, which is fine, but this is weird. This is weird. But they bring him in and we're always beating the shit out of him. Roger: Right! TROY A ESCAMILLA: Burnham asks to see his driver's license, his identification, and they see that it is in fact, Steven Altman. And so Burnham holds the ID up to the camera so that Mae can see that her husband's there. And she of course is freaking out. She freaks out even more when like she's watching the monitor and Raul Roger is beating the holy shit out of this guy. And Burnham's trying to stop him, but Raul puts the gun to his face. And he's like, you don't tell me what to do. Remember who has the gun, right? And even threatens to shoot him if he doesn't get. back up and he takes that the floor lamp and bashes this poor old man in the head and you get that moment of Jodie Foster just letting out that guttural scream because she knows she's helpless like what can she do? She's just watching her husband get the ship eat out of him. She tells Sarah to turn away and not look. And yeah, it's very, intense and I at this point like I want Raul to die. Roger: And even Bernhard ⁓ trying step in and get Raul to chill out and Raul won't and Bernhard is looking into the camera saying what do you wanna do? he's clearly gonna kill this guy. And ⁓ it does add an ⁓ interesting of decisions. ⁓ that are made here that I think are actually pretty smart on behalf of the villains, what they do with Steven, how they incorporate him into their plan. Because as the women are watching through the monitor, a lot of what they're seeing is obstructed. And so ⁓ whole bit coming up here where you ⁓ of hear the commotion of what's going on, ⁓ they actually ⁓ Raul switch clothing with Steven and kind of use Steven's ⁓ I mean, you think he's dead for a moment, but they use him to basically make it look like Barnard has had ⁓ a fight with Raoul and is now carrying him around when it's actually Stephen. I thought that was a really well-played decision. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Well, Burnham, Burnham puts the, ⁓ his coat over the camera so that she can't see anything anymore. And this is when they hatch their planned and then switch outfits and stuff. and you get that moment in the panic room. mean, everything has been too much for little Sarah cause she starts seizureing like massively seizure, seizureing and Omega's consoling her until it passes. And then she does look at the camera and she does see Burnham dragging who she thinks is Raul, you know, up the, up the stairs. or down the stairs on the video and he looks dead, right? So at this moment she decides to leave the room to get Sarah's medication. And when she gets out of the room, she sees what she thinks is Steven's body laying on the bed, motionless, like dead. And she runs upstairs and Burnham hears all of this going down. So... At the same moment as she's rushing through the house, trying to get to the medication, we see the body on the bed get up and it is in fact, Raul and Steven's clothing. and now. Burnham just walks up the stairs and they're inside the room and they, go into the panic room. They're in that's, that was it. There's a little trick work, but the only issue now is you have poor. ⁓ Sweating hyperventilating Kristen Stewart on the ground there and they're like who the fuck is this? ⁓ Roger: They're like, oh God, this is the last thing we needed to walk into. I realized at a certain point in my notes that I stopped writing Burnham and started writing Bernard. And I just didn't stop. Like, I just was like, this is this guy's name. So I've been saying all kinds of names for him, but Forest Whitaker. Forest Whitaker. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah, but she our listeners know where you're who you're. They know you mean no disrespect to Forrest Whitaker. We love Forrest Whitaker. ⁓ remember him in Fast Times at Ridgemont High? I think that was like his first movie role. ⁓ He won an Oscar. He won an Oscar. Yeah, I mean, so. Roger: ⁓ never, I couldn't. He's my lazy-eyed brother. I love him so much. ⁓ I look how far he's gone, literally. ⁓ my God, what a star. And in this film too, a phenomenal, really. It still manages to maintain a very likable presence even when doing horrible things. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah, so- Yeah, yeah, he's a very, that's the thing is he's so likable. ⁓ think ⁓ the amazing thing about his performance is that he can just through, through, through looks and just body language and ⁓ on dialogue, he can still come off as being very sympathetic and you don't. even though he is technically a villain, it's really hard for him to think of him as a villain. And I think that's just a testament of some really good writing and just a phenomenal performance. Because the other characters I hate Raul. ⁓ hate, know, even even Junior wasn't like ⁓ villainous, as bad Raul is. But you still find him super obnoxious. I think that Burnham is just a very interesting character in the annals of a film this as a main. villain quote unquote that you actually feel a lot of sympathy for because we haven't mentioned it but junior remember early in the film junior is like making fun of or really holding the fact that bernham has a family and that he's really in debt and that he really needs this money he says that to him a couple times and bernham's like don't even don't remember you're not supposed to bring that up you're not supposed to bring my family up ⁓ so you get that motivation of the of his family needs help he's doing this for his family we don't know what Raul's motivation is and why he's being he why he is so willing to be violent to get whatever this is but we do understand that at least boredom is doing this because he feels like he has to provide for his family. Roger: Well, this whole scene here that unfolds too, we're talking about his likeability factor, the way he handles everything with Sarah is almost father-like. And I just bring this up because you're talking about his family, ⁓ this interaction they have, it's almost like they develop a little bit of a relationship here, even though he's again doing horrible things. He basically is put into a position where he realizes he has to administer a shot to Sarah. to save her life and they have to work together. And it is kind of a shocking moment ⁓ to up here because you wouldn't expect putting these two characters in a position where they have to like collaborate and work together, you know? So ⁓ it's nice that they really let these characters, even the villains, ⁓ feel fleshed out and authentic. Is this the moment where Raul's caught in the door? TROY A ESCAMILLA: Well, I do. Well, this is we're leading up to this. Yes, because Meg has her medication and she she she's going back up the stairs and she realizes the guys are in the room. Right. And she the look on her face when she realized what she did and like that they tricked her and now they are in the panic room with her daughter. It's very effective. She's she's like, holy shit. ⁓ Raul even comes out and he's like, Lady, what you doing? We got your kid. What are you doing? And she, she notices him in the bedroom. He thinks she can't see him, but she does. accidentally points his, he has his gun and has that long silencer on it. So she can see it like poke out behind the door a couple of times as he's motioning. And so she makes her move Roger and she shoves the door, slams them in, slams the door into him and then tries to run into the panic room. She comes face to face with fucking Burnham like face to face and she's, and then Raul grabs her, throws her down. she, she goes to get the gun and he, you know, he pushes her. ⁓ she takes that, ⁓ she takes the medication bag, throws it into the room just as the door closes, but, the door closes on fucking roles hand. ⁓ I know. And he is, I mean, for like 10 minutes, he is like, he's screaming fucking blood. He's like, open the door, open the door. Burnham's like, I can't open the door. She has your fucking gun. Well, Roger: ⁓ good. TROY A ESCAMILLA: She doesn't know that she has his gun until she hears Burnham say she has your gun. So she goes to the bed and she gets that fucking gun that's on the bed. Now she's armed with a fucking gun. She's gonna, she's freaking out. Burnham calls out of the room. He's like, we know you have the gun. You know, don't do anything stupid. She's like, I need to get in there. I need to give my daughter a shot. And he says, no, if we open this door, you're gonna shoot. You'll shoot us and she's like, then you give her the shot, give her the shot or she's going to die. Well, Burnham looks down at this poor shivering ⁓ Stewart sees the medication and asks her, do you need this? And she's shakes her head. Yes. And he's like, can you do it yourself? And she says, no. And he says, well, what are you going to do if you don't get it? She says, coma die. So he reluctantly like gets the medication out and he tells her, I'm sorry. I've never. done this before and he, he gives her the shot ⁓ you know, she, she actually ⁓ and she comes to, ⁓ ⁓ looks at him and she says, you did a good job. And she says, thanks, Burnham, because he's wearing his fucking. ⁓ work uniform that has his name right on the right on it on a patch. ⁓ know, that point he's talking to her like very like fatherly, like you're right. He's like, ⁓ I, I've never had to do this. I imagine this is, know, Just kind of hold still, we'll get this done and it'll be okay. Roger: think that for the calmness in this moment, to counter it with Jodie Foster, going fully feral here for a moment, she's throwing herself against this metal door, pounding on it. And every time she beats on the door, Raoul is howling in pain, because the reverberations are inflicting huge amounts of pain on him because of the fact that hand is crushed in between that door. And so it's just this really... ⁓ really well played sequence and at this point moving forward, Jodie Foster gets to get extremely physical. She's been running around, but this whole moment where she's tackled to the ground and ends up sliding the bag into the door just before it shuts, ⁓ it's so ⁓ physical and that maintains through the rest of the film as well. She gives quite a performance here, both as an actress and also as just like a physical performer. It's really impressive some of the things that she does and some of the decisions that her character makes. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Can you imagine Nicole Kidman doing this? Fragile, sweet Nicole Kidman being thrown around and slammed into the... We love Nicole Kidman, but Jodie Foster's definitely a more physical actress, I think. they do, Burnham does tell her that I gave her the shot, she's gonna be fine. He instructs her to leave the gun and go downstairs. She goes downstairs, she doesn't leave the gun. Roger: I can imagine a stunt double in a short crop blonde wig. ⁓ Making this happen for her, we do. ⁓ fragile. TROY A ESCAMILLA: He's like, I told you to leave the gun. And she's just mess motions up to the camera. He does open the thing to let Raul's hand out. And then they begin the whole process as Kristen Stewart sits there and watches of breaking into the safe. right. At the same time, Jodie Foster, like I said, she's kicking into ⁓ survival mode. She knows this isn't going to end well. She knows that. ⁓ They're not just going to walk out of here. ⁓ because when she finds Steven, tied up, she tries to give him the gun and he says, why are we, why are we doing this? And she says, it's the only way it's going to end. Right. So she goes through the house and she's really making smart decisions. She's breaking mirrors so that glass gets on the floor so that she can hear that where they're at. She's breaking lights. She's doing all this stuff. and poor Steven is just tied to this fucking chair in the living room. And then the worst possible thing that could happen. ⁓ Cops show up. And I like, was like, ⁓ shit, because I thought this was going to make Raul fucking lose it. And he starts to lose it. He's like, ⁓ that bitch, she just killed her own kid. She just killed her own kid. And Burnham's like, no, no, no. ⁓ She didn't call I bet it was her husband. And then she goes, like the cops are ringing the doorbell. She goes to answer the door and she actually motions to them through the camera that she's gonna. she won't do anything stupid because she knows she knows they have her fucking kid, right? And ⁓ Raul had a few minutes before ⁓ through the told her if you do anything stupid like that again, I'll cut her fucking throat. So she knows. So she, opens the door. She acts like she's drunk and just super tired to the cops. And they're questioning her. She's like, ⁓ why are you here? There's nothing going on. I'm fine. He's like, well, we got a call from your neighbor and your your husband. said you called and that you said there were three and then the phone cut off. And he's like, well, what were you talking about? Can we come in? He's like, no, you can't come in. He's like, well, what were you talking about? What was it? She says, well, she's like, it was my first night here. I was lonely and I got drunk and I called my husband and I told him there's three things that I would do to you if you come over here and get in bed with me. I think that old fucking man, you are not bringing him over there and doing anything in bed with him. no. NO! Roger: ⁓ God, you'd break him, Jodie Foster, you'd break him. And there's no way that lesbian would want to even lay hands on that man. But yeah, okay, I'll buy it for this film. ⁓ Meg's got the acting chops of one Jodie Foster. I mean, boy, does she sell it. But it's, again, it's a very well-played sequence. And this whole moment with this officer, I think his name is like Kyle, they say it casually, this back and forth, where he tells her, you know, if she has something that she wants to say, but she can't say it, she can blink. And it's it's really tense, really, really tense. TROY A ESCAMILLA: I had a question. Do you think because she, he, yeah, he tells her if there's a reason why you can't say anything to us right now, he's like, you know, you can do something like blink if you need help or you can signal us. And she doesn't blink. But do you think I was trying to figure out if she did alert them because she says, and I wonder if this was her way of like telling them yes, because she's like, ⁓ you guys are, you guys are really good. Like they train you really well. Are you talking about if like maybe there was somebody in the house? Was that her like telling them basically? do you think she, because then it comes off, then she's like, no, no, really I'm fine. I crossed my heart. I was like, wait, I was a little confused. The cops are there, they come back, like they're there immediately when shit hits the fan. So I'm wondering if that, if they took that as, ⁓ shit, there's somebody in her house. Do you know I mean? Did I misinterpret that or? Roger: Yeah, the white officer I think is definitely more in tune than the other, you know, and I think that it definitely stays with him as he leaves. You can tell that he's really second guessing it and questioning whether or not he should leave. But it is worth noting that ⁓ Meg is like running around the house leading up to this when she realizes they're there, ⁓ is like, you know, ask them for help. And she's like, I am not going to, because they will kill our daughter if I do. And she has to come up with this in the moment. And again, it's so well played. she really pulls it off. But Stephen, it's funny because Stephen seemed such a kind of toss away. ⁓ brief mention of a character who's barely brought up. And now all of a sudden he's involved and he's horribly injured. she's like, can you raise your arm? And he's like, it's broken. And she's like, raise the arm. ⁓ And ⁓ he But you know, he plays a major, like a major, he's a major component of the conclusion of this film. And it's just not a character I expected to stick around. TROY A ESCAMILLA: I mean, yeah, he doesn't really do much, but he is there and she forces him to take the gun, you know, and she tells him he's very hesitant and he, but she tells him like, this is, this is how it's going to end. There's no other way it's going to end. ⁓ then I like how then it flips to being inside the panic room. They find the, ⁓ they find, get, get into the safe, right? In the meantime, Sarah has been watching this. She's been watching on our monitor and her mom breaking out the cameras and the guys even see it and ⁓ response is like, why didn't we think of that? Roger: or come back into play, you know? TROY A ESCAMILLA: And at the same time, we also see that Sarah has taken underneath of her insulin and all the needles. But they get into the safe and they find the paper bonds and they realized there was way more money in bonds than this guy even let on because there's $22 million in bonds, right? And so they either like, we got our shit. Let's get out of here. Raul makes the comment. ⁓ saw my face and Burnham says, so what she saw mine too. And he's like, no, you, you know how this has to end. Right. So this is insinuating that he's gonna, he's gonna kill, kill them. ⁓ so they exit the panic room ⁓ and they keeps really good hold on Sarah Burnham's leading the way. He's being a real smart because he knows that Meg still has the gun. So he's like checking doors, being real careful when he's going around corners and stuff like that. And again, because she broke all the light bulbs and glass, she can hear them coming because they're stepping on the broken glass and stuff. ⁓ And they descend the stairs. They start the stairs and they run into Stephen ⁓ as elderly and weak as he can. kind of like, his eyes are fucking. Brew shot, can barely see it, but he's holding that gun. He's like, let go of my daughter. Roger: Let her go. Like, fuck off. Like, you can't even move that arm, let alone aim a gun, old man. there's, he's horribly injured, but he's trying. I got to give him credit for being a, being a cheater, cheating on poor, sweet lesbian Jodie Foster. No wonder she's a lesbian after this film. ⁓ But as far as like, plots go or schemes, ⁓ this is... TROY A ESCAMILLA: And his eyes are swollen shut. Like, how does he see? Roger: very well executed. her plot here to like break all the glass in the house so she always knows where they are and then like planting herself what is in the elevator because they're just creeping, they're creeping through the house and she's able to keep completely up to date as she's moving around and sticking to the shadows. It's just, ⁓ it's a really, good plan that she has. I mean with what's in her control at this point. She's got that big old sledgehammer and she's got fucking geriatric Stephen looking like a 1940s gunslinger, sitting there with that pistol and a spotlight on him, making him look really dramatic. as far as conclusions go, mean, this gets pretty intense here because Stephen is basically having dialogue with Burnham as Raoul is keeping himself hidden, holding on to Sarah. And Sarah notices from the elevator, her mom sneak towards them as they're all bickering with Steven. And she's like, move. ⁓ And takes that fucking sledgehammer ⁓ and like ⁓ rails into Raoul's head. And that man goes flying over that banister. And it's very, it's satisfying. I mean, I gotta say, if anyone has it coming at this point, it's Raoul. And somehow he survives this. ⁓ TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah. Roger: I don't know fucking how, but he does. But it's really good seeing this guy getting the shit beat out of him. Cause he's had it coming. TROY A ESCAMILLA: I was super surprised that he survived and was still able to fight because she, yeah, she slams that sledgehammer against his head and he flies and falls three stories down and he's still able to come back up the stairs. ⁓ I love Roger that Burnham just fucking darts out of there. He's like, ⁓ okay, shit's going down. I'm out of here. He literally runs out of the house. He's on his way out. Like he's gone. But Raul somehow crawls back upstairs and she's like, shoot him, shoot him. And Steven's trying to shoot. Of course it's fucking, he can't see, he can't do it. So he's missing. Raul literally knocks him over and the gun goes sliding across the floor. And when Meg tries to get it, Raul is able to grab her by her legs and pull her down. He's attacking her, ⁓ choking her. Poor Sarah's watching all go down and Sarah. Sarah steps up to the plate this little 11 year old girl takes all those fucking needles out of her pocket and jumps on him and starts stabbing in the back with these needles and get off of her get off of her he punches like Punches this girl this little girl so fucking hard enough. I've never seen a kid get punched this fucking hard in a movie like he Punches her Roger: I mean, Christian Stewart gets takes a right hook ⁓ the face ⁓ gets thrown into a fireplace ⁓ and immediately just out a blood curdling scream because of course she would, she's a child. But yeah, you never see this kind of adult on child violence ⁓ in a film. ⁓ And really like does add to the just intensity of this. TROY A ESCAMILLA: you Roger: this final conclusion, because Raul, he's crazy and he's had a gun, but right now he's very injured, but he's got that animalistic rage at this point, because he's so angry that he's just gonna do anything. He is just blind rage, killing all of them, or at least that's his goal. And so when he's beaten on Jodie Foster, the fact that Sarah jumps in and defends her mom, admirable. It makes me like her even more. You know, she's a great, if we're going to talk about kids in movies who really carry their part of the film, at this point, I think Sarah is doing a really great job. And even Steven is horribly injured, but he's trying to crawl to the gun. And then you've got that dramatic shot where the gun gets picked up and you realize it's Burnham. And, you know, for this to be the ending feels very appropriate because his character, as we've said, anti-hero, but he's clearly had a conscience through this whole arc and he makes the surprising decision to come back and execute fucking Raul. I mean, shocking. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Well, God, well, no. Well, yeah, it's shocking, but talk about the moment leading up to it when Raoul, when after he punches, after Raoul punches Kristen Stewart, she flies into that fucking fireplace. He gets on Jodie Foster and bashes her head against the floor. So she's virtually unconscious and then picks up that fucking sledgehammer and literally is going to smash her face in. and like even, yeah, Sarah's scream, that scream she's doing is horrific. Roger: Ugh. Yeah. TROY A ESCAMILLA: And just as he's getting ready to bring it down, her eyes go wide as saucers, Jodie Foster's eyes go. But then you just. Right, right in the side of the head. And it is Burnham. He because he Burnham is what was outside and he was hearing all this go down. He heard Sarah scream. And I think that's what brought him back. ⁓ But he shoots Raul dead and then he just looks at him and he says it's over and he leaves again. He goes out the back and at that same moment swarms of cops come in. Right. and Burnham is ⁓ over the wall when the cops see him and pull their guns on him and tell him to freeze to raise his hands or they'll shoot him. It's raining. It's pouring rain. It's windy. He raises his hand. He's, he's holding those bail. He's holding those bonds and they're like, drop them, drop what's in your hands. We need to see your hands. And you just see like this poor fucker, like he was almost out of there. He could have had $22 million. ⁓ He has nothing left to do except drop these bonds and they go flying in the wind, flying away. And he's just standing there as these bonds are swirling around him. And you just look on his face. They're like, ⁓ you know what? Yeah, you probably deserve to be arrested. ⁓ it's tough. It's a tough pill to swallow. And you even see Meg's character sitting there watching this unfold and you even have that kind of moment of hesitation go across her face where she's even like, is this right? Because she would have been fucking dead if it wasn't for him. Roger: You know, it's a major shift in character development for his character to come back. Like he, this was really the moment he could have escaped and he could have had it all. I mean, I'm sure there would have been a way that he could have been caught. Let's be real, especially with the fact that his face was clearly seen, but still he could have gotten away this evening and figured whatever it was that was ⁓ out himself. But it would have been at the cost of. likelihood, at least Meg dying, if not all of them, you know, really what was going to happen in that situation. And so he made the decision to go back. And normally with an anti-hero arc like that, a development like that, you're left where that character... they normally ⁓ some form of repercussions, but there's also some glimmer of hope. You know, we've seen this before where a character makes the decision to step up and... ⁓ do something good for the sake of doing something good, you know? And oftentimes, like those loose ends will be tied up neatly and it'll give you the viewer something to take away from it, thinking that, this character isn't only going to see horrible punishment. there's also some aspect of positive, some ⁓ rainbow in sky after the storm for this character. And unfortunately for... ⁓ this character for Burnham, the way this wraps up is very bleak. this is the last thing you see, that dramatic shot. It's very dramatic of all of the papers swirling around him, all of the bonds. And then, like you said, it cuts to Jodie Foster. And then that's the last you see of him. And you don't get any conclusion. You don't have any kind of final moment of connection. ⁓ or forgiveness or just acknowledgement in general and with the ending unfolding the way it does, you just feel like you need that. You really feel like you need some final bookend for the character of Burnham. And the fact that they don't provide that, like, I wouldn't say that this film ends poorly. I think that final buildup, that final climax is extremely intense and really well played. But for a film that's like two hours long, you think that they could have tagged on a couple, like three more minutes and given that character. something a little more hopeful. He did something awful, but he also did something really important that saved several lives. And it just, you feel like that they should be giving him something, some nugget of something to cling to. TROY A ESCAMILLA: the screen goes black for a few seconds. And I actually thought the ⁓ closing credits were gonna roll because it's black for so long, but you then cut to a ⁓ scene where Meg and Sarah are sitting on a bench in Central and they're looking at newspapers, ⁓ looking for and reading off ⁓ ads for new apartments, for new Now, it would have been cool. Wouldn't it have been cool that you're, because I get what you're saying about needing to know something about what happened to Burnham. Like they're looking at a paper. Wouldn't it have been cool to see like, you know, the camera to go in on the paper and you see something like, oh, Burnham Jones sentenced to 15 years in prison. I don't know. So that you know, oh, his, I, that could have, that could have been enough for me, you know, but now as the film ends, I'm just assuming he's in prison for the rest of his life. I don't know. Which is a very bleak ending because yes, he did horrible things, but like we've talked about, he did a lot of things that were an attempt to save these people, right? Roger: And they took the time in early dialogue to establish his debt, his family. There's all these traits to this character that make you still want to root for him, even though he's doing awful things. And so when he does make the conscious decision to do good, not saying he should be rewarded for it, but he should be acknowledged for it. So just to end on him with that really sad shot of him just looking heartbroken in the rain just felt kind of cruel. But like also I get it, he was still technically a villain. He still was in that house for bad reasons and like, okay, that's fine. it is kind of a realistic conclusion, but I just wanted something a little more for him. And I also even feel like this little final moment tagged on there, like I'll be real, trauma aside, I know that house is ruined, but I ain't getting rid of that fucking house. The only reason I'm alive is because that goddamn panic room. I'm redoing the whole thing. My insurance is gonna cover all of it, first of all, because burglary, you know? And I am staying in that fucking house, knowing that that panic room saved my life. Like, yeah, I would have some trauma. Yeah, I'd be scared. But I'm not getting rid of that fucking house. they're, yeah, they're just sitting in the park, looking at other rentals, looking to downsize. Like, I get it, I get it. Maybe you don't wanna return to a place of trauma. like a Jamie Lee Curtis would. But I don't know. I think that house was so fricking cool. It's got a lot of work though. They really wrecked that place. It looks bad. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Yeah, yeah. But you said insurance would cover. Yeah, I don't know if I would move, but they they decide to move in the other. They're definitely downgrading because the the advertisement that they settle on is one that's like, oh, small, cozy two bedroom, you know, next to Central Park. Oh, that one sounds perfect. Let's let's do that one. And then the film ends. And it was it was a very I really a very enjoyable experience. I would have really loved to have seen this in the cinema so I could have taken it in it in that in that environment. But it was, I was quite impressed with this film. it's, not the typical type of film we cover because it's really not a horror movie. but suspenseful, definitely some suspense, some gore, you know, even when, when when Jerry Leto gets shot, we didn't even acknowledge that's a pretty gnarly effect. Like the whole side of his face is blown off and we see like an eyeball hanging out. so this definitely, you know, wet my, my appetite for some, some good. high adrenaline type of ⁓ shit because I really enjoyed this film. Roger: Awesome, excellent. Well, you know, we've been in a series of different rooms. I don't know how many rooms are left, Troy. It's the next film that we'll be covering room-centric. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Oh, you know, I thought long and hard about what film I wanted to cover next. We've we've done just some stuff that is just usually out of our realm green room this one. And I was like, you know what? We're this is we're we're approaching our 200th episode. I want to kind of take it back to the roots. And it's a film we mentioned. I don't know if it was last episode or a couple of episodes ago. We brought this film up because we were talking about for some reason one Marine McCormick and Roger: Ugh. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Maureen McCormick happens to be in this film. I will say and I'm going to reveal this because I haven't seen this film forever. I hated this film like as a as a like as an 80s slasher affectionate. Oh, like when I first kind of got into it, I saw this film. I fucking hated it. So I need to revisit it in it. You know what it is. It has rooms. It has a science room. It has a you know, it has rooms. We're talking about return to horror high. Roger: Yeah. I hope. turn to horror high. I own it on DVD and I don't know why. ⁓ It leans way more into comedy from what I remember than horror. Yeah, a young George Clooney. TROY A ESCAMILLA: And maybe that's why I don't like it. know George Clooney is in it. ⁓ And it's like, isn't it like it's like a movie within a movie. I just know there was something about it. I just hated it as a kid watching it. But I want to I want to revisit it. I want to see one Maureen McCormick play a police officer. Roger: Yeah. Well, I know if there's one thing you didn't hate, it's that goddamn poster of that skeleton, like, midair. Yeah, we love her. TROY A ESCAMILLA: Oh, that's that cheerleader in. Oh, but that but it but it had the good take killer to the left killer to the right killer something fright fright for I don't know. There are some actually there are some really good sequences. There's the like the dissection scene. I do remember that. So yeah, I'm excited to check it out. I was a bit on my list. I'm like, you know what? Let's let's do it. Let's get it out of the way. Roger: Yeah. Let's fucking do it. Let's do it. And let's also sign up for that goddamn Patreon because I know Troy just recently completed a new entry that he uploaded. Is it true crime, Troy? Yes, true crime. TROY A ESCAMILLA: I did guys. It is true guys. True the patron. It's literally like two dollars a month and you can get access to this and I did an episode on three true crime cases with extremely disturbing voicemails. Yes, and I actually linked the voicemails ⁓ in the notes of the episode. So check that one out. It's really creepy, especially there's one particular one that gives me fucking chills. It's horrible. Roger: that. TROY A ESCAMILLA: But yeah, check out our Patreon. There's other stuff. have still like 20 full length review episodes on Patreon. We have all kinds of stuff. Also Apple podcasts give us a five star rating and review on Apple podcasts. We're sitting at 69, which is a great number, but it'd be cool to get to 70. We are on episode 190. We have 10 episodes left before we're to a 200 and Roger and I really need to start deciding what we're going to do for that. And I know Roger had a really good idea about, you know, Roger: Mmm, that's a good number. Yeah. Ugh. TROY A ESCAMILLA: something we could kind of add to the episode to make it a little bit more fan centric, so to speak. And I don't know when you want to reveal that, but that's keep your eyes and ears posted. We'll probably post about it on our social media and mention it here as well. Roger: Yeah. We'll probably mention it. would like to think the lead in of our next next episode something something kind of fun for our many supporters who've stuck with us so long and I will say my next Patreon that I'm going to be recording in the next two days because it's kind of time sensitive. I'll be doing a reaction and an analysis of the new Resident Evil trailer because I do love my Resident Evil video game series. TROY A ESCAMILLA: oooo Roger: ⁓ I enjoy aspects of the film series, though I've never felt it's hit its full potential. And ⁓ this is kind of my wheelhouse. So I've been really excited. Zach Kragers stepping into what I think is going to be a really nice comfort zone for him. But I'll expand upon that. So some new territory for both of us as we look for ways to ⁓ expand upon our Patreon. So all the more reasons to sign up for that. because it's getting creative, it's getting fun, and we're bringing a lot of new material to you. But next week, we will be bringing you Return to Hor High, and I'm sure you all can't wait for that. So on that note, get ready. It's gonna be a good fucking time, I'm sure. Oh boy. TROY A ESCAMILLA: ⁓ Get your cheerleader costumes out and we're gonna yeah. ⁓ boy. But guys, thank you tune in and ⁓ yeah, good night. Roger: Good night.