Latest / Border Banter: An Immigration Podcast / After 40 Years in Immigration Law, Here's Where Canada Is Actually Headed

Transcript

After 40 Years in Immigration Law, Here's Where Canada Is Actually Headed · Border Banter: An Immigration Podcast

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: A few years ago, Canada couldn't bring in people fast enough.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Labor shortages, post-pandemic recovery, aggressive immigration targets.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: The message has now changed.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: Today we're taking a step back from the individual programs, but actually looking at the bigger picture.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: With Canadian immigration, where it's been, where it's heading, and what the major shifts have been, and what these shifts actually mean for workers, employers, and anyone that has any stake in the immigration system.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Sonia Siddu, and I'm joined by Stephen Green, the managing partner here at Green Speagle.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: And this is Border Bacter.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so I would like to welcome Stephen Green.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Steven, so as I alluded to, you know, immigration has evolved for over the last few years.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Can we go backwards a little?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: And like not too backwards, we'll go to like the post-pandemic era.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Can you talk about what happened there that has led us to here?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's even more important to go back further, to let everyone really understand the ebbs and flows of immigration and immigration policy.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: I've been involved in immigration now for almost 40 years.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm an old person.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I have seen it increase tremendously.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Then I've seen it decrease.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Then I've seen it increase.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we're at the point now where the federal government, along with provincial governments, uh had decided to decrease the entry of people, but really were decreasing it to the levels pre-pandemic.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So for 80% of my career, we're at the same levels they've been at for a very, very long time.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, if we were to go back to pre-pandemic, uh, you know, things were chugging along, everything was great.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Then the pandemic comes, there is difficulty in filling a lot of positions in the labor market.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: The federal government, along with some of the provincial governments, decide to increase the levels in order to help us Canadians.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then once the pandemic subsides, uh the governments, you know, they're kind of like the Titanic.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: It takes a while to recognize that maybe we should rein in things a little bit.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they finally recognize it.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the policy changes, in my opinion, were kind of knee-jerk reactions.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, maybe they should have taken a small, little hammer to hammer things down.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people that are here have been affected tremendously by that.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess the silver lining now is that the government has, I think, gotten to the point where they want to be with the numbers.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And now they're starting to develop policy to really fine-tooth what they really want.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a good way to put it because I think the conversation has gone from we need people, we need more people, to how do we manage growth responsibly, right?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: So immigration technically isn't slowing down, it's just evolving into what it needs to be.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's and and that's been, you know, the immigration portfolio since I've been involved in assisting people, you know, coming to Canada, where they have to evolve their policies to the needs of the Canadian constituents.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about like, what are we doing to you know manage this growth responsibly?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, it's interesting.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Most people apply through the express entry system.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: And when that system was developed and I was consulted on it, the government had said to me, you know what, Stephen, prior to Express Entry, we had a list of occupations and we would select people based on that occupation.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: There were 1,000, I think, 881 odd occupations.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And if you did one of those occupations, you could come to Canada.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: But then the government recognized that, you know, the needs, the labor needs evolve year to year.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it really wasn't appropriate to have a list.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: So they went to look at something called human capital, where they said, you know what, maybe the person is an engineer abroad working or in Canada.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: But let's also look at their language ability.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Let's also look at their education, let's look at their human characteristics.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because if the labor market changes in the engineering field, then they'll still have the skills necessary to adapt.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what Express Entry was about when it first came out.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: But then the government kind of stepped back a bit and said, well, you know what, maybe we should look at occupations.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we've got now, where the government is looking at occupations from a selection standpoint.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you can see, you know, based on science, technology, engineering, math, uh, medical, uh, things like that.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: But that system, in my opinion, only works if they can process quickly.
• 5:27
  unknown: Yeah.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And if they can't process quickly, then I really think we need a human capital model.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: But right now, it really is occupation related for immigration.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: These two models have collided, right?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because it was a knock list.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's an occupation overview with several knocks in them.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: But you bring up a really good point.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: If they don't move these files fast enough, you're not actually alleviating that demand that is here.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, if we say today, oh, we need physicians.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if it takes us a year to bring in the physician or for that physician to get their license or to get all the other criteria, then it doesn't make sense to me in having an occupation-specific selection system.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I support the occupation selection system, provided that particular individual can really land in Canada and start running to their office, their job, their trade immediately.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think it's a balancing of like quality over quantity, but still getting the numbers here and having them being able to transfer and do the jobs they're doing here.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have doctors driving Ubers.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that didn't make sense.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's always been a difficult process with licensing occupations because the federal government is involved in the selection, the final selection of people.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: But the provincial governments are responsible for licensing.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: So until we have a proper coordination between the selection of immigrants to Canada and the licensing requirements in occupations that require licenses, we're always going to have that difficulty.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: It certainly is getting better, but I think the provinces have a long way to go with respect to recognizing licenses of people from abroad.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And quite candidly, interprovincially, we have difficulties recognizing one province's license to another.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, so we have the occupation-based streams, you know, you have the healthcare professionals, there is no licensing requirement there.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes it takes much longer for licensing to happen for certain professions.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then you do have this divide.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I think in that point, like the federal government and the licensing bodies have to really come together and say, hey, if we're trying to fill this labor market, what are we doing to make it an easier transition for these individuals?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: Is there something we can start off before they come here?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Or can we make the training or the transfer an easier process?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you mentioned, like, even doing interprovincial transfers is really difficult, which is crazy in my mind because they're all working in Canada.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like humans don't change from BC to Ontario.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the hottest topics in immigration right now is the consultations happening around the express entry reform, right?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: We have the service out, the idea of potential changes to the CRS scores, spouses bringing up or bringing down the scores, salaries being taken into account.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Can you walk us a little bit through what you're seeing in that end?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I certainly commend the government for you know reviewing the express entry system.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: And again, they're relying on statistics, dealing with, you know, if you have a spouse coming with you, does that really help you or does it hurt you?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have family members in Canada?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Does that help you?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Does it, you know, that hurt you?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Does having Canadian in uh education, you know, facilitate your ability to get a job, you know, easier in Canada?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because remember, express entry is always related to, you know, employment and are you going to be able to have a job when you come to Canada?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we'll have to see what they're going to come down to.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, some of my concerns with the new system will be to make sure that individuals that are experienced are generally older and recognize that fact.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because quite candidly, if you're you know 40 years of age under the current system, it's extremely difficult for you to be selected.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you may be a CEO of a company responsible for two, three, four thousand employees, and yet you won't have enough points to get immigration under the express entry.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: So they are looking at bringing back this concept of arranged employment.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: But again, they want to make sure that there's not any fraud involved because you know, arranged employment, this LMIA process, a lot of people were uh involved in buying these LMIAs, which was totally illegal, but there wasn't enough information outside of Canada explaining that that's not the way it works.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a bit of you know, problem with the government giving out information about LMIAs and arranged employment.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully they've learned from that.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll have to see how having an LMIA under the new proposed system will hopefully give you significant bonus points, especially for senior people.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: But again, managing and balancing the fraud with respect to that.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so we'll just have to see.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: But remember, and I put it out there very clearly, nothing is known yet.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: There is nothing to prepare yet.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: So please don't let yourself fall into, you know, the this trap of preparing because there's nothing to prepare.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I would anticipate that we probably won't have a new express entry system till late fall at the earliest.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think it's probably gonna be transitional, right?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: You might see some changes come in in the late fall and then some in the early year and then significantly later.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: But I think you bring up a very good point here.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: On social media, you'll see everybody the TRPR TR2PR pathway has been released.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Get ready, contact us, we can help you get prepared for this.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: There is no such program.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: There is no program.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And again, you know, I was quite, you know, upset about seeing all this information on social media saying, prepare for the new pathway, it's here.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: There was nothing.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you really, really must be careful with what you read on social media.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: You must be very, very careful with who you retain to represent you.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you are changing one of the biggest things in your life.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're moving to Canada from another country.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Please check out who you are dealing with.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And there's lots of ways to do that.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: You can call law societies.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you decide you want to use a consultant, you can review their background.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but you know, check the person out.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Ask them questions.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: How long have you been doing this?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: What do you know about immigration?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, to become a registered consultant, you take a one-year course.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: This really isn't a full year, and then you write an exam, and that's it.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: A lawyer, obviously, a lot more time to get your license to complete law school.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: So really check out the person that you're going to have assist you.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I always say, go to the source, go to the government website.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: If someone's talking about a program, is it on the government's website?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Anytime I get an email from someone I've done a consultation with and they start talking about these programs, I'm like, can you send me the link of where you're reading this?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because then I'm able to say, like, look, this is not from the government.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: There is no such, you know, program.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Reddit.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody's speaking about programs on Reddit.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, guys, I can go and write anything on there.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: So be very careful about what you're reading and how you're implying it, applying it to your situation.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Also, with immigration right now, Steven and I are not the same person, right?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: So what he qualifies for and what I qualify for could be completely different.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: We're both lawyers, right?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: But there's so many factors that come into play that you have to be really careful saying, well, my cousin or my friend, he did this.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Why can't I do it?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Or I'm gonna do it because it worked for him, right?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's and that's the tricky part with immigration, things constantly changing.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we have this whole year of everything changing in immigration on temp side and PR side.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: No, you know, I always tell people uh when I have a consultation with them, or even, you know, our discussion right now, Sonia, that what we're talking about is true today, but it may change tomorrow.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's so important that you check.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: And really, you know, in my full career, I have never seen policy changes so quickly as they have been happening in immigration in the past year.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you are absolutely right.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to go back, check your sources, make sure that the policy has not changed and it is constantly changing.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess, you know, when you, you know, when we talk about change, if anyone ever says to you, I guarantee you're gonna get your immigration, that would be the biggest red flag for anyone, and I would run.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because how can we, as lawyers, guarantee what the government is going to do?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's like saying, I'm gonna guarantee it's gonna be sunny today.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think somebody upstairs has a little more power on the weather.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how immigration works.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: You can never, ever, in my opinion, get a person to assist you when they use the word guarantee with immigration.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think like I came from Matle in the middle of COVID, and I'm like, I feel like a student.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Everything has changed so much, but then it was like five changes before I got to the change that we're at now.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to go back and say, what happened in the last three months that something changed five times?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then you have the sneaky changes.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: There's no announcement, it's just updated on the website.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: And we're as we're going through, like, oh, this changed.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then as everybody, okay, what happened here?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: When did it change?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Trying to figure all that out, right?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it's very important to be on top of that.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna ask you some questions.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: In your opinion, Stephen, what do you think Canada should reward the most when it comes to express entry profiles?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: I really think the highest reward in the express entry system should be given to someone that has, you know, some great experience in their profession of what they are doing.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it is an economic system.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So anything that we give points for must support the person's economic ability to establish in Canada.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I really think someone's background on their work experience should be given the most points.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: However, also, you know, ingenuity, also innovation.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: There should be some system, and maybe it's not the express entry system, some other selection system that really recognizes innovation.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's becoming more and more important now with AI.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver really want to be the AI capitals of the world.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got to recognize innovation, and there has to be some program, some maybe offshoot of express entry recognizing that.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think about points for age?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Points for age.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I'm a senior now, and um I think we should give more points to our seniors, but I certainly understand the government.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: They believe that the younger you are, you will be able to contribute more perhaps economically to Canada.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: But I think they also have to recognize that people that have been in the labor force for quite a long time are certainly going to be older than someone that's, you know, new and entering the labor force.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we have to have a balance there between someone's age, innovation, experience.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we have to get the proper balance about.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I always think about, you know, you're gonna have this mass exit of the seniors, you know, as they get older.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't bring in the mid-tiers, who's chain training the new juniors?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: How is information being passed on?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: And is that gonna be an issue for us in the future?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, for sure.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: We I mean, you know, we we really have to look at, you know, mentoring within our system.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that's why, you know, people that are involved in the global skills program, where they're getting LMIAs and there's a, you know, a business plan.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Part of that labor market business plan includes a form of mentoring by that worker that comes in.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you're absolutely right.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Mentoring and all those things are so important.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we really have to look at our labor force that is getting older, people are retiring, and we've got to be able to fill that.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times, you know, the department is talking about numbers, but they never mention how many people are leaving Canada, how many people are leaving the labor force.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's an important message to get out to Canadians, where we talk about the numbers we're bringing in.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to also balance that against the numbers of people leaving Canada and retiring.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a good way to look at it because we sometimes have these notions that we're bringing too many people in, you know, the Canadians can't have won't have jobs or the PRs won't have jobs.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: But are we taking into account all the labor market that is retiring or have gone somewhere else?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Are we going to get ourselves in a situation if we're not looking at those numbers and just looking backwards of who's coming in?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope, you know, our express entry system really has to be balanced properly because the most important asset of any business, any country are the people.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't have the right human capital people, you will never make it as a country.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think is the best way to combat fraud in an LMIA system?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a big you know proponent of looking at the employers.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it has to be responsible examination of employers.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it, you know, that's an important point, I think, because sometimes some of these examinations go on too long with respect to employers.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes they're too fast.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we really have to look at that.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: But from a fraud perspective, it's really the employer that we have to examine and make sure that they are doing the right thing.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we need to come up with something called a trusted employer, where, you know, we're talking about processing times.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we mentioned that, you know, express entry is taking a long time.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: LMIAs processing times are getting longer and longer.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: But if we had a system where we had a trusted employer, meaning that ESDC, the people that issue LMIAs, have examined the employer and they're satisfied that this is for now a good employer, then they should be able to get their LMIAs quicker.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: We certainly would have, you know, spot audits to make sure that these employers are doing the right thing.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think 99% of all of the employers would be doing the right thing because they would lose that ability to call themselves a trusted employer with ESDC.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And by losing that, perhaps the processing time would be delayed because there's a further examination.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it really, we really have to look at the employer and come up with a system to punish the bad employers and reward the good employers.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And there are far, far more good employers because if you look at the number of LMIAs issued versus the number of People that were involved with inappropriate LMIA application, it's very tiny.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's still bad, but we have to, you know, recognize that the majority of employers are good people.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we really have to concentrate on the employers that are not.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think if you have to have bite to your bark, right?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: So if you know, if you're doing and you're involved in fraud, it has to have some more serious consequences for employers.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: But on the flip side, what can we do with a trusted employer?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are we going to create two types of classes?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because what if it's a big company, like a Fortune 500 company?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they are doing a lot of LMIAs.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: They may be able to get it on this trusted list, but then there's a smaller company that's doing LMI for the first time or the second time.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: Could they get on the list?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is it going to be how many LMIs you do, how you're vetted?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like it gets very complicated.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I, you know, I think that you, you know, we would need to develop a policy of who would be the trusted employer.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, do we go for, do we permit smaller employers at the beginning?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe not.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would, you know, I would always want to, you know, create a pilot project of trusted employers, see how it goes.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: If we're satisfied that fraud is really, really dropped, then we would move to, you know, a different group of employers.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I would start with larger employers uh because they request more LMIAs generally, and then move on to others and see how it goes.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I really think we need a trusted employer program.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: It will cut down processing and provide officers with more time to deal with the difficult cases.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: Taking it a step further, what about points in the express entry if you have an LMIA-based work program?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, again, um I would rely on ESDC to do their proper due diligence before the LMIA is issued.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And once the LMIA is issued, then you know you would get the appropriate points.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: So they would have to really work together, IRCC and ESDC, to make sure that the LMIA that is issued and provides the extra bonus points really meets the test and you know, due diligence of a good employer, which would then result in providing a job for someone within their company.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I know, like I do a lot of express entries, and when you're due previously, when there was a range of employment points, you would do put the LMA in, the work permit in, and a letter from the employer.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think IRCC has to take it a step further and ask for more documentation.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Ask for the pay stubs up front, ask for the tax documents, the T4s, because it's easy to write a letter and say, hey, this person's been working here, but have the pay stubs gone out.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then if they have reason to suspect, they can ask for more documents.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: But the threshold of what documents you have to provide for these points is really low.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no, for sure.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think that uh, you know, if you're dealing with in arranged employment, with that, you know, as a result of an LMIA, absolutely you would want tax forms.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you would certainly want a letter of support from the employer.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, anything that is available kind of publicly from a company, you would want them to submit.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how long has the company been in business?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: If it's a public company, that would be great because all that information is available uh, you know, on the exchanges, things like that.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: But the more information that the immigration officer has or ESDC has on the particular company would certainly substantiate the validity and the due diligence that would be required.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to spend a few minutes talking about one of the biggest immigration developments we've had this year, which is the Ontario Immigrant Nominee Program, Phase One redesign.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: It was just launched June 26, 2026.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I say launched, it's the program requirements came out.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: There is actually no program to apply under us of this point.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so what we did see was the old employer-driven streams are gone and we've gone into an Ontario workforce priority streams.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Can you fill in the gaps here for us?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: What does this mean?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, what the Ontario government is recognizing is that, you know, employers have to be actively involved in this selection.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they only have a very limited number of nomination certificates, uh, you know, closer to 15,000 at least for this particular year.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're increasing the language requirements.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think they were very smart when they came out with the program, not requiring the employer to re-register again within their system.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that was good.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly the applicant now has to re-register because it is a new system.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's going to recognize, you know, the needs of more rural cities in Ontario.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I have always been a proponent of not chasing immigration.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, this program was announced, the framework was announced.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it has not been initiated yet.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I do not recommend people running to rural areas just because they think they can get a job out there, because it may change in five months, six months, or they may have hit their quota.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you've got to really live the way you want to live and not chase your immigration.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I I, you know, I'm a big proponent of that.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do not chase your immigration.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you happen to be living in a rural area and working in a rural area, it's great for you.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I would never recommend for someone to move to a rural area hoping to get their immigration because who knows what's going to happen.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, and that's a really good point there because a lot of people, when we speak to them, like, oh, should we move to a different province?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: Should we do this?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: Can we do this?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, well, even if you were to, you need to get work experience.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: By the time you do that work experience, how do you know the program wouldn't have changed?
• 28:18
  unknown: Yeah.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then what you're gonna run back.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Really important, important part.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, you don't want to be in a position that you know that happens.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, and you know, and language requirements, education requirements, there's exemptions to them.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think Ontario was really smart to say, like, you know, there's certain occupations where you may not have a higher level of education, but it's in demand.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: So they made an exemption to certain, you know, major groups or subgroups where they didn't make it for others.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think they're hopefully potentially going to get it really right here and saying, okay, we're understanding certain NOCs, certain occupations require this, other NOx and occupations require this, and we're trying to make these exemptions that people that are actually out there doing these jobs and you know, already amalgamated into society and providing to the economy will get invited if their employer is able to support them.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then on their flight, they're also recognizing in this system the ability in some occupations to be here working in a lower sort of tier system with the anticipation of moving up.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're a personal support worker and you really want to become a nurse, applying in that system.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: So they recognize the licensing issue, which is great, and they're really supporting the healthcare industry in Ontario.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: And even like for in that to that point, like if you were a nurse back home, you're not able to be a nurse here because you're still going to your licensing.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: Previously, you had to show work experience as a nurse for two years to be able to qualify.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: Where now they're saying if you, you know, you're PSW, you don't have PSW experience, but you're a nurse, you can use it towards your work experience.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to wait those years because you are qualified to do that job while you get your licensing done.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we're one of the only provinces doing that.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's great.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh no, I commend the Ontario uh government for that part of the program for sure.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: And even with the rural employers, like a lot of the times we run into these income requirements because they're smaller companies, you know, and having to make$500,000 in a physical year was really hard.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: So they've taken into all that, um, taken all that into account, which is amazing.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's now a matter of waiting to see what phase two is, how it's rolled out.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: We don't know yet.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: So everyone, wait, just wait.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know.
• 30:39
  unknown: Yeah.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, and that's I think the most important thing, it's not just a name change, it's a whole restructuring of this system, right?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it's gonna take time and there are gonna be glitches, and the pendulum goes left and right until we really when do we ever get it right?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: We probably in immigration will never perfectly get it right, is trying to find that balance.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, nope, that's immigration, always, Sana.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think the biggest takeaway is immigration isn't closing, it's just changing.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: The focus appears to be shifting towards long-term economic benefits, stronger integrity, and selecting candidates that actually fit Canada's long-term economic needs.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: As more policies and changes are introduced in the coming months, we'll be here to break them down and help you understand what they really mean.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: A question I'm gonna leave you with is what do you think Canada's immigration system should prioritize over the next five years?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: We'd love to hear your thoughts.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: If this episode raises any questions for you, please book a consultation to the link below.