Latest / Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood / 189. The Unsinkable Molly Brown - Margaret Brown

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189. The Unsinkable Molly Brown - Margaret Brown · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

0:11
Speaker 1: Hello, delicious friends, and welcome to Who Did What Now?
0:15
Speaker 1: The history podcast That's not your history class with me
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Speaker 1: your host Katie Charlewood, history Harlotte and reader of books.
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Speaker 1: Now you maybe thinking, where have you been for the
0:27
Speaker 1: past week? Katie, Well, travel and illness.
0:31
Speaker 2: So I've been.
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Speaker 1: I've been getting about and then i'd gone down to Dublin,
0:36
Speaker 1: up and down on one day. So I'd gone in
0:39
Speaker 1: the morning and I got back I think it was
0:41
Speaker 1: like four am. And so I get back, I get
0:45
Speaker 1: into bed, I'm done six o'clock in the morning. So
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Speaker 1: like less than two hours later, I wake up to
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Speaker 1: the sound of my little girl being sick. So there's
0:54
Speaker 1: a vomiting bug going around. Now, luckily it bypassed me.
0:59
Speaker 1: I just got a so I was like really fatigued
1:03
Speaker 1: and tired. So I was just like coming in from
1:05
Speaker 1: work and just crashing. Luckily, my kids are fairly self sufficient. No,
1:11
Speaker 1: but in fairness note and we all just kind of
1:12
Speaker 1: got fevers and we're all not doing great that week.
1:17
Speaker 2: Like it's really funny.
1:18
Speaker 1: So I had so many friends reach out to me
1:20
Speaker 1: because like, apart from the fact that I hadn't really
1:24
Speaker 1: been in contact with anyone, I hadn't been posting online
1:27
Speaker 1: and that was everyone's main concern, which I think says
1:30
Speaker 1: a lot more about me than it does about them.
1:33
Speaker 1: But yeah, why was I in Dublin. Well, I'd gone
1:36
Speaker 1: to see Lucy Darling. If you have not seen Carusa perform, like,
1:40
Speaker 1: she is a delight. She's so quick and witty and also,
1:44
Speaker 1: which I think is probably you know, the most important
1:47
Speaker 1: part of this, a very skilled magician. And I had
1:51
Speaker 1: brought my friend Cormack with me. If you saw me
1:54
Speaker 1: post online I said he was my favorite plus one.
1:57
Speaker 1: So I'm sorry, Hannah, you know I love you, but
1:59
Speaker 1: he always makes sure I fed. It's just it's just
2:02
Speaker 1: a thing. So, h I had gone to the Irish
2:06
Speaker 1: Podcast Awards and he came as my plus one last minute,
2:10
Speaker 1: by the way, because the person who was supposed to
2:12
Speaker 1: come with me bailed the day before. So like the
2:17
Speaker 1: Irish Podcast Awards wasn't exactly the most organized of events.
2:22
Speaker 1: And so they're like there's food, and it's like where,
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Speaker 1: and so he goes out searching and he comes back
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Speaker 1: with like steak and Yorkshire pinden and like all this
2:32
Speaker 1: food for me, So yeah, yeah, he feeds me.
2:35
Speaker 2: So he gets the number one slot. Oh, so, like
2:40
Speaker 2: here's the thing, I just have it.
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Speaker 1: Whenever I buy tickets for something, I always buy two,
2:45
Speaker 1: partially because if you buy one, a lot of the
2:48
Speaker 1: time it's like.
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Speaker 2: There's gonna be a single seat here and you need
2:50
Speaker 2: to not have that.
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Speaker 1: And also because you never know when you're gonna bring
2:55
Speaker 1: a friend, like there's always someone right, Like, I've never
2:59
Speaker 1: gone to an event and not had someone want to come,
3:02
Speaker 1: So I always buy a second one because if you
3:04
Speaker 1: never know if someone can afford it, or if they
3:05
Speaker 1: hadn't seen the the you know, the announcement or wherever.
3:09
Speaker 2: But I always get two tickets just in case.
3:14
Speaker 3: That being said, I'm going to be in.
3:17
Speaker 1: California and Nevadason and Nevada, I did say, and not
3:22
Speaker 1: in so like I know all two different states. So
3:25
Speaker 1: I do look forward to seeing some of y'all out
3:27
Speaker 1: and about when i'm there, and I will be following
3:29
Speaker 1: you in on what's going on when I get back,
3:31
Speaker 1: because I have news coming, great wonderful news.
3:35
Speaker 2: But I know what you're thinking.
3:37
Speaker 1: You're thinking quite your Jebel job ol Katie and fact
3:40
Speaker 1: me and fact you.
3:42
Speaker 2: I will, but first we've got to get our source on.
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Speaker 1: Our sources are Unsinkable. The Molly Brown Story by Joyce
3:53
Speaker 1: b Lows, Molly Brown Unraveling the Myth by Kristin Everson,
4:02
Speaker 1: Heroin of the Titanic, The Real Unsinkable Molly Brown by
4:06
Speaker 1: Elaine Lando, Margaret Brown, The Unsinkable Lady by Kieran Conliffe.
4:14
Speaker 1: Of course, we have Encyclopedia Titanica and our old favorites
4:19
Speaker 1: History dot com and biography dot com. I use it
4:24
Speaker 1: in comfortably good. Then let's begin. Anyone who has heard
4:31
Speaker 1: of the Titanic, or do I say it seeing the movie? Listen, listen,
4:35
Speaker 1: I know this where a lot of you got your
4:36
Speaker 1: Titanic information. Okay, no shame, Okay, it is a starting point,
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Speaker 1: but most of you have heard of the Unsinkable Molly Brown,
4:45
Speaker 1: played by the fantastic Kathy Bates. Now, before we get
4:50
Speaker 1: even further, like Befoor even start talking about her, her
4:54
Speaker 1: name's not Molly, and you might be thinking, oh, well,
4:57
Speaker 1: isn't it short for Margaret? Eh? Maybe, but that wasn't
5:02
Speaker 1: her name, Like, she was never called Molly during her lifetime.
5:05
Speaker 1: This is another one of those things where she died
5:08
Speaker 1: and they're like, let's change your name, I'd change it
5:11
Speaker 1: to Mollie. It's more jolly. Like. No, she was called
5:15
Speaker 1: Maggie like that was everyone's, you know, friendly name, not Molly.
5:22
Speaker 1: And that was until until Jane Fowler writes his book Timberline,
5:28
Speaker 1: and what do you know, it's stuck. So Mollie Brown
5:33
Speaker 1: was born Margaret Toubin on the eighteenth of July eighteen
5:36
Speaker 1: sixty seven in Dinkle's Alley in Hannibal, Missouri. It's near
5:41
Speaker 1: the Mississippi River, right, so it's that's where she's at.
5:45
Speaker 1: And this is also the place where like Mark Twain
5:47
Speaker 1: is from or around. But anyway, she's born to John
5:53
Speaker 1: Tobin and Joanna Collins. John was a laborer in Hannibal
5:57
Speaker 1: Gasworks and sometimes had stints clerking for our reverboat office
6:01
Speaker 1: because you know, how ever, and Margaret, known as Maggie,
6:06
Speaker 1: was the middle child, so her parents had both previously
6:10
Speaker 1: been married and had children from both and then more
6:14
Speaker 1: once they got together. So they're all part of the
6:17
Speaker 1: Irish Catholic community. Its very tight knit. And I don't
6:20
Speaker 1: want to use the word poverty except it is poverty
6:23
Speaker 1: because even though they're in the lower classes, they're like
6:28
Speaker 1: not the poorest of the poor.
6:31
Speaker 2: You know, John worked.
6:32
Speaker 1: Manual labor mostly, but he did have clerk king on occasion.
6:35
Speaker 1: And Maggie's aunt was a teacher and her brother in
6:40
Speaker 1: law owned a candy store. Now, speaking of brother in law,
6:45
Speaker 1: I should discuss siblings. So Maggie had two half sisters,
6:49
Speaker 1: Catherine Bridget Tobin by her father's first marriage and Mary
6:52
Speaker 1: Ann Collins by her mother's first marriage. Her other siblings
6:56
Speaker 1: were Daniel Tobin, Michael Dobin, William Tobin, and Helen Tobin,
7:01
Speaker 1: although I think they just called her Ellen. Oh, and
7:04
Speaker 1: her parents' previous spouses they had died. Okay, these were
7:09
Speaker 1: Irish immigrants. There was no divorce on the table like
7:12
Speaker 1: this is, you know, a death until part situation. So
7:16
Speaker 1: her maternal aunt, Mary O'Leary, was a teacher at a
7:20
Speaker 1: grammar school, so all the children were educated up until
7:23
Speaker 1: I think it's the seventh or eighth grade, which was
7:27
Speaker 1: very typical for the time, especially for children of that class.
7:32
Speaker 1: Her dad was specifically into a hard work ethic and
7:36
Speaker 1: that all the kids should have it, because that's very
7:38
Speaker 1: much a working class attitude, because the thing about being
7:41
Speaker 1: working class is that if you don't work, you die
7:45
Speaker 1: unless you're either end of the life scale, in which
7:47
Speaker 1: case you are cared for because it's what the village
7:50
Speaker 1: is like. You care for the people who need support.
7:54
Speaker 1: The vulnerable in society, get aid from those who are
7:58
Speaker 1: not vulnerable, Okay they able bodied, the people who are working, right,
8:03
Speaker 1: that's what you do. But yes, work they did. When
8:08
Speaker 1: Maggie's thirteen, she worked at the local cigar factory alongside
8:12
Speaker 1: many other girls from the Irish community in Hannibal, and
8:15
Speaker 1: she earned a dollar day a whole dulla. It was
8:20
Speaker 1: a dirty job. You've got nicktaine and tobacco stained hands.
8:22
Speaker 1: It's very labor intensive and there's no child labor laws.
8:26
Speaker 1: So what can you do. You leave school and then
8:30
Speaker 1: you get a job. Like back then you went from
8:33
Speaker 1: like child to adult and there was no real teenage phase.
8:37
Speaker 1: But I think after the cigar factory she does get
8:40
Speaker 1: a job in the Park hotel, so like she does
8:42
Speaker 1: vary things up a little, but yeah, this is how
8:46
Speaker 1: things went. You went to school, you worked, you got married,
8:50
Speaker 1: and if you're a woman, you start raising them babies.
8:53
Speaker 1: Like that's how it goes. So she's in the Park
8:57
Speaker 1: hotel and then like this is a few years on
9:01
Speaker 1: and she's eighteen and she has to upsticks and move
9:06
Speaker 1: out west. So John Laundrigan, Maggie's brother in law, Mary
9:12
Speaker 1: Ann's husband, he went out west to run a blacksmith shop.
9:16
Speaker 1: Then her brother Daniel had gone out west seeking his fortune,
9:20
Speaker 1: and unfortunately, being a single man, he needed a little
9:23
Speaker 1: lady to keep house. Why hi are a housekeeper when
9:26
Speaker 1: you can get your sisters.
9:27
Speaker 2: To do it for free.
9:30
Speaker 1: Maggie and her sister Ellen joined their brother Daniel out
9:33
Speaker 1: west in Leadville, Colorado. Okay, why Leadville, Colorado?
9:38
Speaker 2: I hear you ask.
9:39
Speaker 1: Well, there was a little thing called the gold rush,
9:42
Speaker 1: and some miner struck gold out in Leadville, and so
9:45
Speaker 1: more joined them. And there's like, well it's not just
9:49
Speaker 1: a gold rush, because there's also a silver rush, and
9:53
Speaker 1: like silver was in the coins, you know. And by
9:58
Speaker 1: the time Maggie and Ellen a rat, it was a
10:01
Speaker 1: lot of syndicates, big companies in charge of mining operations.
10:07
Speaker 1: And Daniel he was now working as a miner, and
10:10
Speaker 1: Maggie worked in the drapery department of a department store.
10:14
Speaker 1: So he's earning two fifty a day and she's earning
10:18
Speaker 1: a dullah, a whole dullah. So she's serving all these
10:22
Speaker 1: rich customers. She's seen them fancy folks, and she wants
10:25
Speaker 1: a piece of that pie. And so, you know, like
10:30
Speaker 1: her whole life, she's supposed to get married and have kids,
10:32
Speaker 1: like that's what she's supposed to do. That's just society, right,
10:37
Speaker 1: And so she dreams of marrying a rich man because
10:41
Speaker 1: in all fairness, that is the most logical route to
10:43
Speaker 1: escape long hours in low pay. She dreams of marrying
10:48
Speaker 1: a rich man, but instead she falls for James Joseph Brown.
10:53
Speaker 1: Now these two they're a good match. They're both charming,
10:56
Speaker 1: they're both social, they're both per Catholics. He wasn't poor,
11:01
Speaker 1: I mean, he wasn't poor poor.
11:03
Speaker 3: It was like poor enough, right.
11:04
Speaker 1: He was a superintendent in the minds, not a manual laborer.
11:09
Speaker 1: Like he was hungry for information. So he was like
11:12
Speaker 1: studying engineering and geology and like fixing things. Like if
11:18
Speaker 1: there was a problem, he'd solve it, took out the beating,
11:21
Speaker 1: like the dj revolve it. So he would just come
11:23
Speaker 1: out and fix the problem. If a machine wasn't working,
11:27
Speaker 1: if somebody wasn't doing something, he would just be there
11:29
Speaker 1: and he would sort it out. He basically made himself
11:32
Speaker 1: indispensable or now the two love birds. They get married
11:39
Speaker 1: in the Ledvill Annunciation Church on the one of September
11:43
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty six. She's nineteen, and they move into a
11:48
Speaker 1: two room cabin out of town to.
11:52
Speaker 3: Stump Town.
11:54
Speaker 1: That is a real place, So they marry a move
11:58
Speaker 1: to Stumptown, and they had you're a housekeeper, Okay, no
12:01
Speaker 1: offense to anyone who is from Stumptown if it's still
12:04
Speaker 1: called stump Town.
12:07
Speaker 2: Listen, listen.
12:09
Speaker 1: You should hear some of the place names in Ireland.
12:11
Speaker 1: I mean you could read them and probably not pronounce them,
12:13
Speaker 1: but you should hear them. So this kind of shows
12:17
Speaker 1: that they're moving up in the world because they can
12:19
Speaker 1: afford a housekeeper.
12:22
Speaker 2: And then they do something interesting. They hire Tootles.
12:28
Speaker 1: Like they both had at least a standard education, but
12:31
Speaker 1: they wanted to be more knowledgeable and have comprehension and
12:35
Speaker 1: get this right. They even let the housekeeper sit in
12:39
Speaker 1: on the lessons, like everyone's getting improved, Like if we're
12:43
Speaker 1: getting it, you're getting that. Like that's they didn't have
12:46
Speaker 1: to do that, and I don't think higher class families
12:50
Speaker 1: would have done the same. So a year after they're married,
12:54
Speaker 1: their first child is born, Lawrence Palmer Brown, followed by
12:59
Speaker 1: Helen year after. So somewhere between this, most of her
13:04
Speaker 1: family had moved out west, her sister and their husbands
13:07
Speaker 1: to come out in Maggie. She's sharing the wealth, what
13:10
Speaker 1: little she has. She knows the better off than some,
13:14
Speaker 1: and so she starts organizing, like soup kitchens for the
13:17
Speaker 1: poorer miners of the town. And she's organizing clothing drives
13:21
Speaker 1: like she's giving. So she's at this a while, and
13:26
Speaker 1: then the Panic of eighteen ninety three strikes. The Panic
13:31
Speaker 1: of eighteen ninety three is like an economic depression that
13:33
Speaker 1: lasts eight months officially, but the effects were felt for
13:37
Speaker 1: years later. People lost their drops. Silver crashed so like
13:44
Speaker 1: the Great Depression in the nineteen thirties, like this was
13:46
Speaker 1: the big one before that. And when silver crashes, like
13:51
Speaker 1: gold is on the up, and this is quite fortuitous
13:57
Speaker 1: for the Browns. So Jiji Brown, he's working in the
14:05
Speaker 1: Little Johnny mine, and the Little Johnny mine is hemorrhage
14:08
Speaker 1: and gold, and so he used some engineering Wildie mccollins
14:13
Speaker 1: to explore an orstream and get the gold out. And
14:16
Speaker 1: the Ibex Mining Company were so grateful that he was
14:20
Speaker 1: awarded twelve thousand, five hundred shares of stock and gave
14:25
Speaker 1: him a seat on the board. Meanwhile, Maggie's out there
14:29
Speaker 1: running Souper Kitchen to help Mine's families because she's killed
14:32
Speaker 1: like that. So this does two things. One it pushes
14:38
Speaker 1: the Browns to the top, giving them lots of money,
14:41
Speaker 1: and two it helps ensure jobs and investment for the town.
14:47
Speaker 1: So after they get this kickback from the Little Johnny Mine,
14:50
Speaker 1: they traveled to the World's Fair in Chicago, the Colombian Exhibition,
14:55
Speaker 1: which we discussed in the Little Egypt episode, and the
14:59
Speaker 1: hh Olmes episo, which I will probably go back and
15:02
Speaker 1: cover again sometime now. Maggie she loves the exhibition, Like
15:07
Speaker 1: she gets really excited about other people's cultures and like
15:12
Speaker 1: this is the inspiration for travel, to explore, to learn,
15:17
Speaker 1: Like she's excited, you.
15:21
Speaker 2: Know, and she wants to see more.
15:26
Speaker 1: And the Browns well, after this, they make the big
15:29
Speaker 1: move to Denver in eighteen ninety five. She's twenty seven
15:34
Speaker 1: at this point, and you know, she's got a house
15:38
Speaker 1: and wait for it, indoor plumbing. Hell, yes, Like they
15:42
Speaker 1: buy this Victorian mansion and it's funny.
15:47
Speaker 2: I we call it Victorian.
15:48
Speaker 1: Because Queen Victoria has getting nothing to do with the US.
15:52
Speaker 1: But like we talk about these eras as if they're transferable,
15:57
Speaker 1: but kinda again, but yeah, she's got indoor plumbing and
16:05
Speaker 1: she's living her best life. So the Browns entered Denver society.
16:18
Speaker 1: Now there's this myth that she just storms in all
16:22
Speaker 1: guns blazing, but it's less like that and more like women,
16:26
Speaker 1: well women. One woman in particular didn't really like her
16:29
Speaker 1: and treated her as though she was lowly because she
16:31
Speaker 1: was new money, as if old money was that much
16:34
Speaker 1: older around that neck of the woods. Like you're talking
16:37
Speaker 1: what a decade maybe two for a lot of these families.
16:39
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, we're so rich.
16:41
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, honey, you made money off the railroads
16:44
Speaker 1: ten years ago.
16:44
Speaker 2: You're fine.
16:47
Speaker 1: Now.
16:48
Speaker 2: The Browns had more.
16:49
Speaker 1: Pieces written up about them in the society peoples than
16:53
Speaker 1: any other family.
16:55
Speaker 2: For twenty years.
16:57
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think they're all right. So over the
17:01
Speaker 1: next decade, Maggie embarks on her favorite hobby, separating rich
17:07
Speaker 1: people from their money and giving it to the poor,
17:10
Speaker 1: like Robinhood and legg and Mutton sleeves with her Denver
17:15
Speaker 1: Club ladies. I think it's like the Secret thirty six
17:18
Speaker 1: or the something thirty six, and like I can't take
17:21
Speaker 1: it seriously because I'm like, what is it the crazy
17:22
Speaker 1: ady eights?
17:23
Speaker 2: Is it? That's way shame?
17:25
Speaker 1: Like the society names, Oh, our society has a nickname,
17:30
Speaker 1: does it? It's a bit silly. I know it's really common,
17:35
Speaker 1: but it's it's silly to me. But with her Denver
17:37
Speaker 1: Club Ladies, she organizes neighborhood vegetable gardens so that, you know, prayer,
17:43
Speaker 1: people have food, like they can grow it, they can
17:46
Speaker 1: need it. There's public health clinics, art shows for schools,
17:50
Speaker 1: traveling libraries. She raised money for summer schools and playgrounds.
17:55
Speaker 1: She even raised funds for the YWCA and the working
17:59
Speaker 1: Girls not like that, like an actual.
18:03
Speaker 2: Place for girls who worked, who could live, like so
18:06
Speaker 2: they could live.
18:09
Speaker 1: Another thing she's instrumental in is juvee, like the juvenile
18:13
Speaker 1: justice system.
18:15
Speaker 2: Hear me out.
18:15
Speaker 1: Okay, I know this is a pretty big claim, but
18:19
Speaker 1: see back in the day, it didn't matter your age.
18:20
Speaker 1: A criminal was a criminal, whether you were thirty eight
18:23
Speaker 1: or just eight. Children were doing hard time like children
18:31
Speaker 1: were doing hard time.
18:34
Speaker 2: It's madness, all right. In Maggie.
18:36
Speaker 1: She has this friendship with Judge Benjamin bar Lindsay. And
18:41
Speaker 1: side note for him, So back when he was an attorney,
18:43
Speaker 1: he had two clients to defend.
18:44
Speaker 2: This is the story he tells, and.
18:47
Speaker 1: He was shocked to be introduced to these young boys
18:51
Speaker 1: and this knocked him a bit because they were like
18:53
Speaker 1: treating actual children like hardened criminals. And he's like, what
18:58
Speaker 1: is this? And so he gets into social reform and
19:01
Speaker 1: enlists the help of one Missus, Margaret Brown, to gain
19:06
Speaker 1: support for his juvenile justice system plan. Basically, he's a
19:11
Speaker 1: pioneer in the establishment of the juvenile court system, and
19:14
Speaker 1: thanks to him, an act was past creating a juvenile
19:18
Speaker 1: court in Denver, which was an important advance in relation
19:21
Speaker 1: of the law to kids and would go on to
19:24
Speaker 1: serve as a model for future juvenile courts across the
19:27
Speaker 1: entire country. So this happens much in part thanks to
19:31
Speaker 1: her funding, because nothing really happens without money. You know
19:36
Speaker 1: those people who say they're socially liberal but fiscally conservative.
19:40
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, bitch.
19:41
Speaker 1: What in the lack of economics are you talking about?
19:45
Speaker 1: The majority of countries in the world are capitalists, Meaning
19:48
Speaker 1: nothing happens without money. And you don't have to be
19:51
Speaker 1: a sociologist to understand that poverty breeds crime. You know what,
19:56
Speaker 1: We're already here, sus sidebar. Okay, there are literally trees
20:00
Speaker 1: of evidence that show that providing funding and support and
20:03
Speaker 1: low income areas actually reduces crime, raises life expectancy, creates employment,
20:09
Speaker 1: greater safety in the area, economic growth.
20:12
Speaker 2: It bloody helps.
20:14
Speaker 1: Like education, Education is the greatest key, it's the greatest
20:19
Speaker 1: step out of poverty. But you need to fund education,
20:23
Speaker 1: you need to fund the hospitals, right otherwise you're just
20:26
Speaker 1: saying poor people deserve to die, right, Like, No, we
20:30
Speaker 1: don't live in a meritocracy. Like we like to act
20:34
Speaker 1: like we do, but we don't. And so the whole
20:36
Speaker 1: point again the fucking village, is that the people in
20:40
Speaker 1: the middle, people who are earning all the money and
20:42
Speaker 1: doing all the working, and people who are able bodied,
20:45
Speaker 1: they look after the people on either end of the scale,
20:47
Speaker 1: the babies in the oldies. Okay, that's what we're at.
20:52
Speaker 3: So sorry.
20:54
Speaker 1: So anyway, Maggie Brown, she is raising money and funding
20:58
Speaker 1: away for this juvenile system, so she's sorting that. But again,
21:02
Speaker 1: she's investing in public playgrounds, childcare centers like she's very
21:08
Speaker 1: ahead of the time, like a thoroughly modern Maggie. Now,
21:13
Speaker 1: just in case you think this woman could not get
21:16
Speaker 1: any cooler, when her brother Daniel is widowed in struggling
21:20
Speaker 1: to raise his four children, so three dottles and a son,
21:23
Speaker 1: she takes the girls in and raises them because he's like,
21:27
Speaker 1: I can keep the boy, and she's like, sure, I'll
21:29
Speaker 1: take the girls because.
21:31
Speaker 2: Here's the thing.
21:32
Speaker 1: Historically, girls we're seeing more as a burden. And she's like, no, no,
21:35
Speaker 1: it's fine their mind. And she raises them like they're
21:39
Speaker 1: her own. Okay, her and JJ both. Now she may
21:44
Speaker 1: have been doing all this good work, but she and
21:47
Speaker 1: JJ also built this fabulous estate called Avoca, or they
21:52
Speaker 1: build this house and say the courage if I have
21:57
Speaker 1: to hear cottage, Oh, they have a cottage and it's
21:59
Speaker 1: got forty three that's not a cottage, like no, But anyway,
22:04
Speaker 1: so she has this fibalus estate it's called Avoca, named
22:09
Speaker 1: after a poem, with a country home just outside of Denver,
22:14
Speaker 1: and this was the place to be like society. People
22:17
Speaker 1: were chomping at the bit to jump in a carriage
22:19
Speaker 1: and visit the Browns at Evoca. They'd hold dances and
22:23
Speaker 1: social events, yes, to probably raise some money for charities.
22:27
Speaker 1: They'd have picnics, the good kind, not the murderous kind.
22:32
Speaker 1: So she's in the city like she's out in the country.
22:36
Speaker 1: She's everywhere, Like she's not only wealthy, but she's popular
22:42
Speaker 1: and she gets connected to people all over like big people,
22:47
Speaker 1: the people with money, so the Astills, the Vanderbilts, and
22:52
Speaker 1: even a countess. Right, So there's this Catholic countess who
22:55
Speaker 1: gets her title from the pope because the pope can
22:59
Speaker 1: do that. Apparently you can just make people counts and countesses.
23:04
Speaker 1: And she gets it because of all of our charity work.
23:06
Speaker 1: And so she starts hanging out with this countess who
23:08
Speaker 1: introduces her to like all these people in New York.
23:11
Speaker 3: Like it's not way, you know, and here you know,
23:15
Speaker 3: the Maggie.
23:16
Speaker 1: She does have a gift to the gap, like she's
23:18
Speaker 1: she's known for telling a fibble to and it's like
23:21
Speaker 1: it's always blown out.
23:22
Speaker 3: Like, oh my god, she lied about this, and she
23:24
Speaker 3: lied about that.
23:25
Speaker 1: And I'm like, she exaggerates, right, And I think if
23:28
Speaker 1: you're doing all this work to raise money and you
23:31
Speaker 1: have to keep the attention of these like rich folks.
23:35
Speaker 3: I'm not surprised that she.
23:36
Speaker 1: Just adds shit here and there, especially when she gets
23:40
Speaker 1: like stuff about all being said and people are treating
23:44
Speaker 1: a dodgy She's like, well, fuck you, I'm gonna say
23:46
Speaker 1: this anyway, because she didn't grow up with the same
23:50
Speaker 1: social norms as the company she's now keeping. Like, I mean,
23:55
Speaker 1: here's the thing. Catholics are fairly strict when it comes
23:59
Speaker 1: to a lot of stuff, especially the Irish Catholics. There's
24:01
Speaker 1: a lot going on there, which we will delve into
24:03
Speaker 1: another time probably, but yeah, but also coming from an
24:10
Speaker 1: Irish community especially, there's always going to be bantering, a
24:14
Speaker 1: gift of a gap, it's just going.
24:15
Speaker 2: To be part of you.
24:17
Speaker 3: So yeah.
24:18
Speaker 1: But also she is properly traveling. Okay, she goes to Europe, Asia, Africa.
24:24
Speaker 1: You're naming all the continents, Katie, I am.
24:26
Speaker 2: Yeah.
24:27
Speaker 1: So like she probably would have gone to Antarctica if
24:30
Speaker 1: it was an offer, Like she would have been like, yeah,
24:33
Speaker 1: just give me, just give me a muff and off
24:35
Speaker 1: I go. And like she's a character, like people pay
24:39
Speaker 1: attention to her when she's in a room, Like she's
24:42
Speaker 1: not a quiet person, which I think is the main issue.
24:46
Speaker 1: It's like seen and not heard, and she's not I'll
24:48
Speaker 1: be seeing and held, thank you very much. So she
24:52
Speaker 1: loves Europe right, and she's super into how it educates children.
24:56
Speaker 1: And I think most, if not all, of her kids
24:58
Speaker 1: are educated and at some point, so I think both Larry,
25:02
Speaker 1: Sir Lawrence, and Ellen, like we both they're educated on
25:07
Speaker 1: the East coast of the US and they're also educated
25:09
Speaker 1: in Europe. So she travels sometimes with her husband, she
25:15
Speaker 1: manages to drag him out.
25:17
Speaker 2: Others she brings her.
25:17
Speaker 1: Kids, and sometimes she just travels on her own because
25:22
Speaker 1: being an older lady she.
25:24
Speaker 2: Can do that.
25:26
Speaker 1: And her family they're doing well. Like her daughter, Ellen
25:31
Speaker 1: is presented to society like a proper coming out debutante.
25:36
Speaker 1: She's presented all over like New York, Newport, Paris, and
25:40
Speaker 1: of course Denver. She does try and get her debut
25:45
Speaker 1: at the King's Court in London, but it doesn't work.
25:48
Speaker 2: Like she tries everything, and.
25:49
Speaker 1: Honestly, listen, listen, you can't blame a girl for trying, right.
25:55
Speaker 1: I just love I love this so much. So she's
25:58
Speaker 1: like doing this and doing that, and she's like, oh,
26:01
Speaker 1: but have you seen my daughter? She should be shown
26:03
Speaker 1: to the king, and the king King's.
26:05
Speaker 2: Court is just like, no, you can't just do that.
26:09
Speaker 3: I just think it's really funny.
26:10
Speaker 1: So like, clearly she's helping out her family and they're
26:15
Speaker 1: doing well, and there is like a social mobility situation
26:18
Speaker 1: happening because her sister Ellen, who is remember traveled to
26:24
Speaker 1: her to work out west to help look after her
26:27
Speaker 1: brother's house during the gold Rush. She's now married to
26:33
Speaker 1: a German baron and this is the second time she's
26:36
Speaker 1: married her first husband. I don't like I heard there
26:40
Speaker 1: was a divorce, but I'm like, okay, that means she
26:43
Speaker 1: changed her.
26:43
Speaker 2: Religion, did she?
26:45
Speaker 3: Okay?
26:46
Speaker 1: Okay, Ellen, Like that's a big deal. So Ellen marries
26:52
Speaker 1: a German baron, like so a baron from Bavaria, and
26:59
Speaker 1: so Ellen comes Baliness van Radzenstein. So they're now titled.
27:05
Speaker 1: She now has a titled family member, which then also
27:08
Speaker 1: by association, brings her social standing up as well. And
27:13
Speaker 1: because of this, clearly again things are going well. She's popular,
27:19
Speaker 1: she's getting invitations to stuff, and Maggie and her daughter
27:22
Speaker 1: Helen somehow get an invitation to the coronation of King
27:26
Speaker 1: George the Fifth in Westminster Abbey. If you're wondering which
27:30
Speaker 1: one this is. He's the spare who got married to
27:33
Speaker 1: his deceased brother's fiance and had a fight with his
27:36
Speaker 1: cousins that started the Great War. Okay, we all got
27:40
Speaker 1: up wonderful. So she's forty three years old, and some
27:45
Speaker 1: sneaky so and so discovered that the Browns were legally separated.
27:51
Speaker 2: Gasp. Like it, I'll been very hush hush. See.
27:55
Speaker 1: JJ wasn't into the whole port of social stuff that
27:58
Speaker 1: Maggie was into. He preferred to work, right. He didn't
28:02
Speaker 1: like that she was in the papers. He didn't like
28:04
Speaker 1: that she was, you know, traveling and doing all this
28:07
Speaker 1: stuff and you know, giving away all this money and
28:11
Speaker 1: so yeah, so now there are rumors, there are rumors
28:18
Speaker 1: that he was dipping his spoon and other honeypots but
28:20
Speaker 1: hooms to sex. I could not confirm that, but I
28:23
Speaker 1: did see that written about a lot. But like he
28:27
Speaker 1: very very much hated her being out in society ways,
28:30
Speaker 1: Like he thought all the stuff she was doing was
28:32
Speaker 1: very improper. Like he hated you know, all of the
28:36
Speaker 1: charity stuff and not in charity she hate, Like he
28:39
Speaker 1: didn't mind the actual giving money to the poor. It
28:42
Speaker 1: was all of the going out and asking other people
28:44
Speaker 1: for money to give.
28:45
Speaker 2: To the poor.
28:46
Speaker 1: Like he hated society stuff. He hated all the social gatherings.
28:50
Speaker 1: He hated her EU were paying friends. He basically hated
28:53
Speaker 1: Europe as well. Like, honestly, I think the man was
28:55
Speaker 1: a little bit on the spectrum, Like he liked things
28:59
Speaker 1: exactly how he like them, and that's that. So they separate,
29:06
Speaker 1: and remember they're all super Catholic. They are incredibly Catholic.
29:10
Speaker 1: This is a very Catholic family, and so they don't
29:13
Speaker 1: divorce because that's just a big no no, right, And
29:16
Speaker 1: so he puts her on an allowance.
29:17
Speaker 3: Like the whole point that.
29:18
Speaker 1: They work out this legal separation situation is because he
29:22
Speaker 1: wants to curtail her spending even though he's like so rich,
29:27
Speaker 1: so so rich, right, And so he puts her on
29:32
Speaker 1: an allowance one hull dalla. No, it's actually seven hundred
29:36
Speaker 1: dollars a month, which is I think approximately twenty grand
29:41
Speaker 1: in today's money. So he's like, you have twenty thousand
29:44
Speaker 1: dollars a month to spend?
29:47
Speaker 3: What what?
29:49
Speaker 2: Okay?
29:51
Speaker 1: So separating, but like divorcing was a bigger scandal, but
29:55
Speaker 1: this was also a major scandal back in the day
29:57
Speaker 1: and they had been outed, and so she has to
30:01
Speaker 1: get like the heck at a dodge. Like what's so
30:05
Speaker 1: funny though, is that when the big secret is out,
30:08
Speaker 1: like Lawrence and Helen so their kids, they take Maggie's side,
30:12
Speaker 1: like they are very pro Maggie.
30:14
Speaker 2: But yeah, she leaves and heads.
30:16
Speaker 1: To Newport in the winter because she needs to escape society.
30:21
Speaker 3: And here's the thing.
30:22
Speaker 1: Newport is not a winter destination, so she's effectively there
30:28
Speaker 1: in her massive house all alone. But then she gets
30:35
Speaker 1: an invitation from her dear friend, John Jacob Astor and
30:39
Speaker 1: his wife Marilyn, who are traveling to Egypt and Maggie,
30:44
Speaker 1: Maggie loves a camel, so she joins them, along with.
30:47
Speaker 2: Her daughter Helen.
30:48
Speaker 1: Now, the Astors had a scandal of their own, so
30:53
Speaker 1: Jack John Jacob he had been married to Avia Lowe Willing,
31:00
Speaker 1: and so they got married, they had two kids, and
31:03
Speaker 1: they just didn't really get on and so she had
31:05
Speaker 1: moved to England a lot of the time. And she
31:08
Speaker 1: comes back and she sues him for divorce and he's like, cool,
31:10
Speaker 1: because I want to get remarried anyway. And yeah, and
31:14
Speaker 1: she leaves back goes back to England and then marries
31:17
Speaker 1: a baron.
31:17
Speaker 3: So she she is fine, right, but.
31:20
Speaker 1: Like he is in a scandal because he gets divorced
31:25
Speaker 1: in nineteen oh nine and then he remarries in nineteen
31:27
Speaker 1: eleven and he's like forty seven or forty six, forty
31:33
Speaker 1: seven and his new bride is eighteen. So yeah, so
31:39
Speaker 1: they're also getting out of dodge. But they're like super
31:42
Speaker 1: super super super rich, like they are like uber rich,
31:47
Speaker 1: like it's wild, and so they're just like, okay, that's fine.
31:50
Speaker 3: Off they go.
31:51
Speaker 1: So, so the Astors and Maggie and her daughter Helen,
31:56
Speaker 1: they all go to Egypt. Now, like Egypt to Mania
31:59
Speaker 1: is like such a big thing. It's super popular. At
32:03
Speaker 1: this point, I think, I'm not sure if it's just
32:05
Speaker 1: before or just after this. You know, they discover the
32:08
Speaker 1: tomb of Tutankumun. No, it's like, I'm like way ahead,
32:12
Speaker 1: it's like another ten years. But like Egypt, Tomania is
32:15
Speaker 1: still very much like a thing. People are obsessed. They're
32:18
Speaker 1: certain valley the Kings, and it's a very big thing.
32:22
Speaker 1: And so she's going over there and she's doing some
32:25
Speaker 1: uh theft. She doesn't realize it's theft because she thinks
32:29
Speaker 1: she's just like sharing other cultures. But no, she's taking
32:32
Speaker 1: stuff and it's going to be you know, putting museums
32:34
Speaker 1: over in the US. So they're in Egypt, they're heading
32:40
Speaker 1: to Paris, or I think they're in Paris actually, And
32:44
Speaker 1: then Maggie gets word from Lawrence that her new grandchild
32:48
Speaker 1: is very very ill, and being the boss has a
32:52
Speaker 1: bitch slash amazing grandmother she is. She decides she's going
32:56
Speaker 1: home on the fust boat she can get. Now. Helen
32:59
Speaker 1: she's in Powis because she's got a few things she
33:01
Speaker 1: needs to do, and she's then supposed to hit London.
33:04
Speaker 3: For a bit.
33:05
Speaker 1: But Maggie she makes her way to Shellbill with the
33:07
Speaker 1: asters and buckets and buckets of artifacts for museums. So
33:13
Speaker 1: they get to shell Bull, they have their tickets, they
33:18
Speaker 1: get on the SS Nomadic, which still exists, by the way, Like.
33:23
Speaker 2: This ship still exists.
33:24
Speaker 1: You can go on it. I mean it doesn't go anywhere.
33:27
Speaker 1: It's like docked. But I've been on it. Which this Nomadic,
33:33
Speaker 1: it's I mean it's small ish, it's big enough actually,
33:37
Speaker 1: But and so what the Nomadic does is it, you know,
33:41
Speaker 1: delivers people it ferries them from the port to the
33:45
Speaker 1: ship that's going to be doing the transatlantic journey. So
33:50
Speaker 1: the SS Nomadic is the very last ship that exists
33:55
Speaker 1: from the White Starlink Company, Like I think, I'm fairly certain,
34:00
Speaker 1: And this brings it out to the main ship that
34:03
Speaker 1: would be taking them across the Atlantic Ocean, the Olympic
34:07
Speaker 1: class vessel by the White Star Line, And along with
34:11
Speaker 1: her friends, Maggie Brown boards the Titanic. So it's April
34:24
Speaker 1: nineteen twelve. She's on the RMS Titanic. She's been selling
34:28
Speaker 1: for a few days, and she goes to bed in
34:30
Speaker 1: her room, which cost her I think it was like
34:32
Speaker 1: fifty four pounds at the time. So the ticket system
34:36
Speaker 1: for the Titanic and all of those like vessels, those
34:40
Speaker 1: transatlantic vessels was weird, Like it involved a baggage man.
34:45
Speaker 2: Who would sort of.
34:48
Speaker 1: Assess your luggage and assess your stuff and like the
34:52
Speaker 1: size of your room, the size of the stuff you need,
34:55
Speaker 1: like it would all come into this.
34:58
Speaker 2: So like.
35:00
Speaker 1: Her ticket, her first class ticket like cost the same
35:05
Speaker 1: as like another dude's second class ticket, Like it was.
35:11
Speaker 2: It's complicated.
35:12
Speaker 1: There was like a whole system that I will discuss
35:14
Speaker 1: one time, but it's not. It's not as easy as
35:16
Speaker 1: going well, it was eight hundred and fifty pounds for
35:20
Speaker 1: a first class ticket, it.
35:22
Speaker 2: Could have been.
35:24
Speaker 1: It wasn't necessarily that because it all depends on like
35:28
Speaker 1: like where you are in the ship as well in
35:30
Speaker 1: what time of year it is, and because like this
35:32
Speaker 1: is like the low season, like out of season, so
35:36
Speaker 1: everything is greatly reduced anyway, Like if this was high season,
35:40
Speaker 1: then obviously the prices would be at their highest, but
35:42
Speaker 1: they're not. So yeah, AnyWho, she's sailing. She's a well
35:48
Speaker 1: traveled lady. She knows her stuff, so when she's knocked
35:52
Speaker 1: out of bed, she knows something is up. Like she's
35:57
Speaker 1: been on boats, she's you know, done these crossing a
36:00
Speaker 1: few times, and there are i'm gonna say, unusual sounds
36:04
Speaker 1: like this isn't normal. But then nothing happens. No one
36:07
Speaker 1: comes by, and no one is panicking. Like she pops
36:10
Speaker 1: her like head out of the room and she's in
36:12
Speaker 1: her nightgown, so like she's not supposed to be seen
36:15
Speaker 1: in her nightgown, Like that's a big no no. And
36:18
Speaker 1: like across the hall from her, like where she's where
36:21
Speaker 1: she's got her cabin, like there were two employees from
36:25
Speaker 1: Gimbals and like they're gonna come in relevant later. So anyway,
36:30
Speaker 1: she's like, nothing's going on like Dorothy Gibson's and like
36:33
Speaker 1: the cabin next door with her mum, and she's.
36:35
Speaker 3: Like fine, okay.
36:35
Speaker 2: She goes back to bed.
36:38
Speaker 1: She is awoken by a banging on her cabin door.
36:42
Speaker 1: She is told to get ready to go up on
36:44
Speaker 1: deck and to put on her life saver by one
36:48
Speaker 1: of the Gimbals employees from across the hall, not a steward,
36:52
Speaker 1: not a member of the White Star Line, but just
36:54
Speaker 1: to do it across the hall. He's like, you need
36:58
Speaker 1: to get dressed now, and she said his face was
37:01
Speaker 1: sort of gaunt, like he was scared. But she's like cool, okay.
37:06
Speaker 1: So she gets dressed and she's layering her clothes because
37:09
Speaker 1: she's like, I don't like the sound of this. So
37:14
Speaker 1: like she's putting like stockings on over her stockings because
37:18
Speaker 1: she's like, I just I have a weird feeling about this.
37:21
Speaker 1: She grabs this little lum she's got this little Egyptian
37:25
Speaker 1: like idle token thing, and she keeps in her pocket
37:30
Speaker 1: because she's just like it's.
37:31
Speaker 2: Meant to be for good.
37:32
Speaker 1: Luck. So she grabs that and she's like putting layers on.
37:35
Speaker 1: She puts on her black velvet outfit that she'd worn
37:38
Speaker 1: to dinner. She has her first dole. She even puts
37:40
Speaker 1: on her hat, right, because she's gonna be respectable, but
37:44
Speaker 1: she's gonna be fucking warm. So she's grabbing everything. She's
37:47
Speaker 1: layering up like she's wearing too many layers, like for
37:50
Speaker 1: like just a reasonable deck, but she hasn't too many layers.
37:54
Speaker 1: And so she gets on deck and is told to
37:58
Speaker 1: get into a boat, but she doesn't listen. Instead, she
38:02
Speaker 1: helps other people get into the pot. Like there's one
38:06
Speaker 1: woman who wants to go back to her cabin to
38:08
Speaker 1: get her jewelry, and she's like, no, like you're not
38:12
Speaker 1: going back. You need to get into this lifeboat. Woman,
38:14
Speaker 1: like get in and right, she's just she's there and
38:20
Speaker 1: she's like light allers there and he's she says, he
38:24
Speaker 1: seems frustrated because no one seems to be listening to him,
38:28
Speaker 1: which it does sound exactly right.
38:31
Speaker 2: So here's the thing.
38:34
Speaker 1: She says that she was pushed into lifeboat six by
38:38
Speaker 1: the two fellas from Gimbals and that she fell four
38:41
Speaker 1: feet into it. You know, like as it's being lord now,
38:45
Speaker 1: which is a great story, but it's not exactly true,
38:49
Speaker 1: like she is a habit again of exaggerating. See where
38:53
Speaker 1: this comes from is she feels she owes the men
38:57
Speaker 1: her life because it was them who I there to
39:00
Speaker 1: her to the danger and the men who survived the Titanic, well,
39:05
Speaker 1: they got a hard time of it, and being the
39:08
Speaker 1: person she was, she did her best to turn the
39:11
Speaker 1: court of public opinion to say these men is as
39:14
Speaker 1: heroes because to her they were so either way she
39:20
Speaker 1: I think she's grabbed by the shoulder and they're just
39:22
Speaker 1: like getting the lifeboat and so she's like, okay, but
39:25
Speaker 1: I don't think it was them. Someone pushed her because
39:28
Speaker 1: they were I think in lifeboats three and five on
39:31
Speaker 1: the starboard side of the where murder it was. So
39:34
Speaker 1: they were in a boat because they were just getting
39:36
Speaker 1: in it. Right now, here's the thing, here's the thing.
39:42
Speaker 1: I think she was shoved, but not like pushed overboard,
39:45
Speaker 1: like get in the boat. And she's like, okay, found Jesus,
39:48
Speaker 1: not need to push me. So she gets in the
39:52
Speaker 1: lifeboat and it does not have enough people in it.
39:55
Speaker 1: It has twenty one woman and a twelve year old
39:58
Speaker 1: boy and also like one crewman, and they realize they
40:03
Speaker 1: don't have enough people to like do anything, and so
40:06
Speaker 1: there's this first class yachtsman and they're like, somebody needs
40:10
Speaker 1: to get in it, and so he sort of goes
40:13
Speaker 1: down the falls to get into the boat to help,
40:16
Speaker 1: but he he breaks his arm in the process, and
40:20
Speaker 1: so he can't do anything. He's like, I tried, but
40:25
Speaker 1: like they yet they didn't have enough crewmen to like
40:28
Speaker 1: actually row the damn boat. So like she's all the
40:35
Speaker 1: women start rowing, Okay, like they start rowing because they
40:39
Speaker 1: have no other choice, right, And like the crew member
40:44
Speaker 1: he's on the tiller and they're rowing and they're struggling
40:49
Speaker 1: with its cold because there's like seven to eight inches
40:51
Speaker 1: of water in the boat. And these women they're on
40:55
Speaker 1: this boat, they don't have their loved ones. They don't
40:58
Speaker 1: know what's going on. It's dark, it's cold, and it's
41:00
Speaker 1: getting increasingly quiet. And Maggie she starts peeling off layers
41:08
Speaker 1: of stockings because she's got so many, and she's sharing
41:11
Speaker 1: them with women who didn't adorn theirs, because like some
41:13
Speaker 1: women did just like come out of bed, shove a
41:16
Speaker 1: coat on, and then end up in a lifeboat, and
41:19
Speaker 1: so she's like, get warm, and so one of the
41:22
Speaker 1: reasons they're rowing is because they're just trying to stay warm,
41:26
Speaker 1: like because they have to do something. Now, Maggie, as
41:31
Speaker 1: the silence is coming around, she wants to turn back,
41:34
Speaker 1: but this one crew member they have, he refuses because
41:37
Speaker 1: he's worried the boat will get swamped by people desperate to.
41:39
Speaker 2: You know, not die.
41:42
Speaker 1: And so this lifeboat, which has twenty odd people in
41:45
Speaker 1: it and it can hold like three times that he's
41:49
Speaker 1: just like no, Like she wants to go back and
41:53
Speaker 1: save people. Now, she says that she, you know, got
41:57
Speaker 1: all the women you know, grabbing an oar and like
41:58
Speaker 1: she tells them to get rowing, when basically all the
42:03
Speaker 1: women in the boat were just like, let's row, let's
42:06
Speaker 1: do it together, and like it's a little bit of
42:08
Speaker 1: an embellishment, but like she was involved.
42:10
Speaker 3: She did row, but it was.
42:12
Speaker 1: Less her leading and more of more of them all
42:14
Speaker 1: just doing it because what else are you going to do?
42:20
Speaker 1: So everyone in this lifeboat, they're just bobbing on the ocean,
42:24
Speaker 1: and they have no idea that they're going to be rescued.
42:27
Speaker 1: They have no idea that the Carpathia is on its way.
42:32
Speaker 1: They're alone in the ocean, and finally they get a
42:36
Speaker 1: glimmer of hope. The Carpathia comes into view and these
42:40
Speaker 1: women they're rowing, but they can't seem to get close
42:42
Speaker 1: enough to the ship.
42:43
Speaker 2: But eventually they get close enough for a ladder to
42:46
Speaker 2: be sent down the side.
42:48
Speaker 1: Like, imagine it's freezing, you're barely able to move, You've
42:53
Speaker 1: just lost your friends, your family, and then you have
42:59
Speaker 1: to climb a rope ladder up the side of the
43:01
Speaker 1: ship one by one to ensure that you live. So
43:06
Speaker 1: on the Carpathia, the doctor tells her that they have
43:09
Speaker 1: cabins ready for first class women and that she should
43:14
Speaker 1: just like go rest because you know what, you've had
43:16
Speaker 1: a debt. And she's like, fuck this for a game
43:18
Speaker 1: of soldiers and starts collecting warm stuff, so like blankets,
43:24
Speaker 1: clothes like for third class passengers. See, the captain of
43:27
Speaker 1: their Capathia had gone around and asked passengers for blankets
43:31
Speaker 1: to share with survivors. But Maggie takes it one step further,
43:35
Speaker 1: like she goes into the barber shop and clears it
43:38
Speaker 1: of combs and soap and bicarb or whatever. They were
43:41
Speaker 1: using to clean their teeth with. Like people forget how
43:45
Speaker 1: something as basic as general hygiene can make someone feel better.
43:50
Speaker 1: And I think Maggie just needed something to do, like
43:53
Speaker 1: she needed to help because you know that woman has
43:55
Speaker 1: survivals guilt, like knowing all those people died, knowing how
44:00
Speaker 1: her lifeboat was not full, knowing they did not go
44:03
Speaker 1: back to help people. So she's doing what she does best,
44:08
Speaker 1: fundraising on the boat because she's thinking of the families
44:12
Speaker 1: and the boat that are now going to end up
44:13
Speaker 1: in a new land without their earner, like women and
44:17
Speaker 1: children with no means to support themselves. So she's doing
44:20
Speaker 1: what she could. When she finally makes it to New York,
44:24
Speaker 1: the news was already out and her brother Daniel had
44:27
Speaker 1: traveled across the country to see her, to see that
44:29
Speaker 1: she survived. See they're in the hotel together, and like
44:35
Speaker 1: she's trying to keep a record of survivors and where
44:38
Speaker 1: they went so that she can send the relief to them,
44:40
Speaker 1: so that she can get the funding to where it.
44:41
Speaker 2: Needs to go.
44:43
Speaker 1: And she becomes the spokesperson for the Survivor's Committee of
44:47
Speaker 1: the Titanic Tragedy. Oh and for the record, her grandchild
44:51
Speaker 1: ended up being okay, like hasa So what's funny is
44:58
Speaker 1: her family knew she was on the boat, but no
45:01
Speaker 1: one else did. So when Denver Society found out, well,
45:05
Speaker 1: of course it was fan page news. And what did
45:08
Speaker 1: dear old JJ Brown say? He said, she's too mean
45:13
Speaker 1: to stink, Like, how dare you, sir?
45:16
Speaker 2: How dare you?
45:17
Speaker 1: See?
45:17
Speaker 2: Like part of me is like, was this just like
45:19
Speaker 2: a malicious thing? He said?
45:21
Speaker 1: Or is this very much just like a very Irish,
45:27
Speaker 1: very Irish Catholic. I mean he's not Irish, but he's
45:31
Speaker 1: been around enough of them, because like it's a very
45:35
Speaker 1: banter is interesting because like Irish banter is kind of
45:39
Speaker 1: an insult, but it's not like there's a line and
45:42
Speaker 1: we know where it is, but we don't state.
45:45
Speaker 3: Where it is.
45:45
Speaker 1: It's a very complicated system except it's not, she says.
45:51
Speaker 1: But yeah, so like he says that, and obviously people
45:55
Speaker 1: like how dare you?
45:56
Speaker 3: She survived a tragedy.
45:58
Speaker 1: So that kind of helped her a little bit actually,
46:00
Speaker 1: because like, oh, she's clearly the good one in this situation,
46:05
Speaker 1: but she is now society's darling and there's this huge
46:09
Speaker 1: dinner for her when she is the toast of the town.
46:12
Speaker 2: Like remember earlier when.
46:13
Speaker 1: I said there was like one woman who just like
46:16
Speaker 1: was her social nemesis and just didn't like her. Well,
46:19
Speaker 1: she's the one hosting the dinner for her return. She's like, Maggie,
46:21
Speaker 1: I always liked you. So Maggie Brown wants to testify
46:27
Speaker 1: before Congress. So like, here's the thing. Six women testified,
46:34
Speaker 1: and all of the survivors they're like, six will do, six.
46:37
Speaker 2: Will absolutely do.
46:39
Speaker 1: She's not one of them, Like she's ready. She offers
46:42
Speaker 1: to go, and she doesn't get the chance. So in
46:46
Speaker 1: true Maggie Brown style, she makes sure she's held with
46:50
Speaker 1: a serialized three part story in the newspapers about the
46:56
Speaker 1: sinking of the RMS Titanic. Now she wrote it. Now
47:01
Speaker 1: we all know, like old timey newspapers don't really have
47:04
Speaker 1: a code of conduct. They just printed what they liked,
47:08
Speaker 1: and so embellishments are gonna happen, whether or not she
47:12
Speaker 1: corrected them, because they'll now in print. And a weird
47:15
Speaker 1: thing is when people see words written down is they're like, well,
47:18
Speaker 1: that must be right, and they don't question it. So
47:24
Speaker 1: this may shock you, but these newspapers they do well.
47:30
Speaker 1: And she basically becomes famous, like she was already like
47:34
Speaker 1: known in society and everything, but now she's like famous,
47:39
Speaker 1: and she harnesses that fame and utilizes it for good.
47:43
Speaker 1: She becomes Palais with Alva Vanderbilt, who helps her run
47:47
Speaker 1: for Senate because Maggie is very pro women's suffrage and
47:52
Speaker 1: in Denver women could vote. See Colorado was the very
47:57
Speaker 1: first state to give women the right to vote. Some
48:02
Speaker 1: woman in eighteen ninety three, so like a few years before.
48:06
Speaker 1: But then the First World War breaks out, and so
48:10
Speaker 1: she postpones he'll senate bit partially because war and partially
48:14
Speaker 1: because her sister is a German baroness and the Germans
48:18
Speaker 1: will the enemies. So not really a good thing to
48:22
Speaker 1: have on a campaign run because everyone's gonna be like,
48:25
Speaker 1: i'll get you. Your sister's sleeping with the enemy. So
48:30
Speaker 1: she does what Maggie Brown would do, which is gives
48:33
Speaker 1: the Red Cross the use of her forty three room
48:36
Speaker 1: house so they can use it as a hospital. I'm
48:39
Speaker 1: not calling it a cottage. It's got forty three rooms.
48:43
Speaker 1: So after this, she scuts off to Franz to set
48:46
Speaker 1: up a relief hospital along with Anne Morgan, the daughter
48:51
Speaker 1: of JP Morgan. Yes, indeed, so this is very much
48:56
Speaker 1: a rich lady putting their money with her mouth is scenario.
48:59
Speaker 1: See in order to be involved in the Committee for
49:02
Speaker 1: the Assistance of Devastated France, you had to speak fluent French,
49:06
Speaker 1: buy your own uniform from b Yatman, and you also
49:09
Speaker 1: needed to have fifteen hundred dollars to support yourself when
49:14
Speaker 1: you were there. The goal was to not only aid
49:17
Speaker 1: you know, Allied soldiers, but also to rebuild France. Okay,
49:23
Speaker 1: so that means investing in agriculture, farms, schools, hospitals. And
49:29
Speaker 1: on top of this, she is organizing female ambulance drivers, nurses,
49:34
Speaker 1: doctors and food distributors and so for her work, like
49:40
Speaker 1: I think it's in the thirties, she actually receives the
49:43
Speaker 1: French Legion of Honor, right, she gets the medal. On
49:48
Speaker 1: the fifth of September nineteen twenty two, JJ Brown died
49:52
Speaker 1: suddenly and ever the classy lady, fifty three year old
49:57
Speaker 1: maggate old newspapers. I've never met a finer, bigger, more
50:02
Speaker 1: worthwhile men than JJ Brown, which is nice because she
50:07
Speaker 1: really could have been the worst, Like she could have
50:10
Speaker 1: just dragged him, but she didn't.
50:12
Speaker 2: And let's appreciate that.
50:15
Speaker 1: So when JJ Brown had died, he had moved a
50:18
Speaker 1: lot of money around, so he put stuff, you know,
50:21
Speaker 1: in trust for the kids, and he'd put you know,
50:24
Speaker 1: stuff here, and like his estate was so vast, like
50:28
Speaker 1: he owned holdings and he had companies made shares, like
50:32
Speaker 1: everything was so complicated, and he did not leave a will.
50:36
Speaker 1: So it causes contention because there's all this stuff, nobody
50:41
Speaker 1: knows where it's going. So the family have to go
50:43
Speaker 1: to court because the kids they're not super fond of
50:48
Speaker 1: all the charity stuff their mom is doing because they're
50:50
Speaker 1: worried she's going to spend all their inheritance. You know. Basically,
50:55
Speaker 1: there's a few and happy thanksgivings, but they do sort
50:57
Speaker 1: it out and after what six years everything it typical
51:00
Speaker 1: court and everyone gets the bits right. Five years later,
51:06
Speaker 1: so five years after he dies, Maggie was involved in
51:09
Speaker 1: the Titanic Monument in Washington, DC. Like she's still doing
51:14
Speaker 1: this stuff right, and she's doing that, but she's actually
51:18
Speaker 1: also focusing on herself, like she's getting into the arts
51:22
Speaker 1: and traveling again. But of course disaster follows her because
51:27
Speaker 1: like she's in Florida, she's in Palm beach when her
51:30
Speaker 1: hotel goes on fire. So she's gone from ice to fire,
51:34
Speaker 1: like the fact that she wasn't involved in a tornado
51:38
Speaker 1: of some kind. I mean she was the tornado, but yeah,
51:43
Speaker 1: she's just like all the elements. So there's a fire
51:48
Speaker 1: and she ends up leading people to safety because of
51:51
Speaker 1: course this woman knows where the fire escapes are. So
51:53
Speaker 1: she's like, follow me, people, I know the way out.
51:58
Speaker 1: And she doesn't stop advocating for other people. Like she
52:01
Speaker 1: drives to Washington to demand the President Calvin Coolidge enact
52:05
Speaker 1: the Equal Rights Amendment, but he declines, right, because I
52:11
Speaker 1: love that she just has the audacity to just be like,
52:14
Speaker 1: fix the law, and he's like no, Like I think
52:20
Speaker 1: as well. Like on this drive, like she's joined by
52:23
Speaker 1: an exiled Russian princess. It's just it's like it's almost
52:28
Speaker 1: as if you've just picked like improv It's like it's
52:33
Speaker 1: like Maggie Brown is going to see President Calvin Coolidge
52:40
Speaker 1: with an excelled Russian princess and go neil the way
52:46
Speaker 1: you want egle rights?
52:47
Speaker 2: Okay, you know so bad?
52:52
Speaker 1: So anyway, right, she loves her dream, Right, She's always
52:56
Speaker 1: wanted to be on the stage right, So when she
52:59
Speaker 1: was getting her education, when she was learning all of
53:02
Speaker 1: her languages, so like when she had the tutor way back.
53:07
Speaker 1: So they're not only learning, you know, about other cultures
53:10
Speaker 1: and you know, math equations, but they're also learning like languages.
53:14
Speaker 1: And she's doing like society things like learning piano and singing.
53:18
Speaker 1: And when she goes to Europe, she meets Sarah Bernard
53:21
Speaker 1: and she she says Sarah Bernard and gets like acting
53:25
Speaker 1: lessons from her, and like this is like here's the four.
53:28
Speaker 1: So anyway, now it's all built up to this because
53:32
Speaker 1: when she's sixty years old, she gets on the stage
53:36
Speaker 1: and performs this homage to Sarah Bernhard, who she had
53:40
Speaker 1: studied under for a while, and you know what, people
53:42
Speaker 1: loved it. They loved her and it was doing well.
53:47
Speaker 1: Like she's really in her last few years, like really
53:51
Speaker 1: just thriving. You know, she's got all her money, she's
53:56
Speaker 1: doing her charity work, she gets the Legion of Honor,
54:00
Speaker 1: like she's continuing to fight for women. And then suddenly
54:06
Speaker 1: and without warning, Maggie Brown passes away in her sleep
54:12
Speaker 1: on the twenty sixth of October nineteen thirty two.
54:16
Speaker 3: In New Yorks.
54:17
Speaker 1: It is Barbazon Hotel. At the age of sixty five,
54:22
Speaker 1: she was laid to rest next to her husband J. J.
54:25
Speaker 1: Brown at Saint bridget Cemetery in New York. It's called
54:28
Speaker 1: something else now, but it was Saint Bridget's Cemetery.
54:33
Speaker 3: And so ends the story.
54:35
Speaker 1: Of the Unsinkable Maggie Brown. It's interesting because there was
54:40
Speaker 1: so much information about her.
54:42
Speaker 2: And it's so.
54:45
Speaker 1: I want to call it misogyny coded, Like everything that's
54:49
Speaker 1: written about her is written from this very particular point
54:53
Speaker 1: of view, and like, yeah, she was, you know, a
54:57
Speaker 1: fibber and she exaggerated things, but also like when you
55:02
Speaker 1: see the society that she was living in and what
55:05
Speaker 1: she grew up in, and the fact that she just
55:07
Speaker 1: kept doing stuff, Like people like comment on her her
55:13
Speaker 1: charity work and they're like, ooh, it's it's very conspicuous,
55:17
Speaker 1: And I'm like, is it like the wording it's very
55:20
Speaker 1: basically old timey version of saying virtue signaling, except she's
55:25
Speaker 1: actually doing the work and she was always doing it.
55:29
Speaker 2: And it just seems like just because.
55:32
Speaker 1: She's not a perfect character, that we should be tearing
55:34
Speaker 1: her down, which just seems to be a common theme
55:36
Speaker 1: when it comes to women in history what But anyway,
55:42
Speaker 1: I fucking love Maggie Brown.
55:43
Speaker 2: I love us so much. I do. I think she's amazing.
55:47
Speaker 1: But I do have more Titanic history for the rest
55:50
Speaker 1: of the month, and I do hope you're going to
55:52
Speaker 1: be very excited because we're taking a.
55:54
Speaker 3: Very different turn next month.
55:56
Speaker 1: But anyway, follow me on the socials, you know where
55:59
Speaker 1: I am, and yeah, like there's a whole thing with
56:03
Speaker 1: the socials. I'm gonna quickly do this now at the end, well,
56:05
Speaker 1: I'm here, is that like liking is not enough now?
56:12
Speaker 1: So because I would always like my friends stuff because
56:14
Speaker 1: I'm supportive like that, but there's this whole thing and
56:18
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, well, liking doesn't really count. You have
56:19
Speaker 1: to make sure that they watch it all the way through.
56:21
Speaker 1: They have to share it.
56:22
Speaker 2: And save it.
56:22
Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, which is world because the only
56:26
Speaker 1: videos I save are literally like here's this recipe I'm
56:31
Speaker 1: gonna cook, and here's this.
56:33
Speaker 2: You know, artwork that I'm looking for.
56:36
Speaker 1: Like I don't I say artwork, it's like DIY stuff
56:39
Speaker 1: as well. And I'm like, oh, I gotta do this
56:40
Speaker 1: at some point, Like I don't save anything that isn't
56:47
Speaker 1: particularly something I'm going to physically do, which I think
56:50
Speaker 1: is probably the aim of that really, and so I
56:52
Speaker 1: don't get why that's a thing, but apparently that's the
56:54
Speaker 1: thing now.
56:54
Speaker 2: So you gotta like.
56:55
Speaker 1: Comment and save and share and all that shit now,
57:00
Speaker 1: which is really really annoying because people don't want to
57:04
Speaker 1: do that.
57:05
Speaker 2: But anyway, if you.
57:06
Speaker 1: Can, it'll be great because it helps me get seen
57:08
Speaker 1: and it means I can do more work, and it
57:11
Speaker 1: means the more work I do, then it means I
57:13
Speaker 1: can always have stuff come out on time. But anyway,
57:18
Speaker 1: it's a recommendation time. So for watching, I think you
57:22
Speaker 1: should get a ticket, Like you're like to what Kerrie,
57:27
Speaker 1: So if you happened to be in Dublin on July third,
57:30
Speaker 1: I think you should get a ticket to see Kinky
57:32
Speaker 1: History with doctor Ezmie Louise James.
57:36
Speaker 3: She was like, cold you share this, and I was like,
57:38
Speaker 3: girl's the cat, babe, I love.
57:39
Speaker 1: You, So you should totally totally do that. For listening,
57:46
Speaker 1: House Tour by Sabrina Carpenter, it's a bop, I don't care, okay,
57:53
Speaker 1: and reading Half His Age by Jeanette McCarthy, I will
57:58
Speaker 1: provide you no context. So that's my recommendation time, and
58:03
Speaker 1: I thank you all for listening thus far, even though
58:06
Speaker 1: my voice is clearly stone not back properly, so I'll
58:11
Speaker 1: bet you all good day. Adios au revoir evriders, my friend,
58:16
Speaker 1: Bye bye