Latest / Ghost Cult Magazine Podcast / Cliff Rigano Talks Dry Kill Logic’s Comeback, “Now You Belong With the Dead” + “The Dead & Dreaming”

Transcript

Cliff Rigano Talks Dry Kill Logic’s Comeback, “Now You Belong With the Dead” + “The Dead & Dreaming” · Ghost Cult Magazine Podcast

• 0:00
  Do believe everyone should pursue whatever you are
• 0:03
  passionate in. Just follow that passion.
• 0:05
  Even if you're not good at it for a long time, don't stop
• 0:08
  doing it. Just continue to do it, whatever
• 0:11
  it is, Cooking, art, making clothes, you know, whatever.
• 0:16
  Whatever you love to do, singing in a heavy metal band, go do it.
• 0:21
  Just enjoy it, you know, because the enjoyment builds the
• 0:24
  confidence. The confidence builds the
• 0:27
  audience. The audience responds to that
• 0:29
  confidence, and you respond to the audience.
• 0:39
  What's up everybody, it's OJ from Gold Scope Mag.
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  I am here with Cliff from Dry Kill Logic and also an old
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  school band I know from many moons ago called Hinge.
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  How are you doing today, brother?
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  Good to see you fella. Shoot, man, I I'd see I I forgot
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  about the the name change because it's like, Oh yeah, I
• 1:01
  forgot yes, you when you were a Roadrunner, like when you got to
• 1:04
  Roadrunner, like it became dry kill logic.
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  But from before then it's like I still you, you guys from just
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  being around the chance and like that whole like Hudson Valley
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  and like down in the city over here, because I'm a city kid.
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  So I, I know you're from over here.
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  So I was like, I had the name change.
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  It's like that was a a moment for me to we were like, wait a
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  minute, they got signed a Roadrunner and now they, they
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  change their name was like roadrunners gobbling up
• 1:27
  everybody at the time you're in that conglomerate where they
• 1:30
  just are. We felt like as, as, as, as
• 1:34
  other friends were like we felt like you guys kind of just got
• 1:36
  gobbled up because they just gobbled everybody but didn't
• 1:38
  know what to do with anybody. They didn't want anybody else to
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  to have you to have anybody and you guys just got sucked up that
• 1:44
  shit. But you know, hey, you got a
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  couple of cool record, you got a cool record out of it, so you
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  got to respect you for that for that one.
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  That was a wild time, man. That whole name change thing was
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  quite a fiasco. I mean, you know, in
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  Roadrunner's defense, I suppose we hadn't really cleared the
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  fact that we could be that officially anywhere with anyone
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  at any given point. And there was some over
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  ambitious copyright holder that owned it in the category.
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  And you know, possession is 9/10 of the law, so you're excited
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  essentially, you know, negotiating against yourself at
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  that point to get to a yes. And after a certain amount of
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  rounds, it was like just clear this wasn't something that was
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  going to happen. So quick shift into Hinge AD, we
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  thought maybe we could abbreviate it and that would be
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  enough. Turns out it was not and we
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  needed to get into a full name change.
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  So thankfully we had the name in our in our pocket.
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  Phil, our drummer at the time, had to discovered it years.
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  So before we just didn't really think much about it.
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  And then when we needed one, we were like, what's that name
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  again that you had? OK, yeah.
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  I. Was going to wonder how many
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  other names that you have. What was the second?
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  What was your second choice of names?
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  Oh, there was none. There was no, you know, the
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  proverbial no Plan B. It was like, hey, what's that
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  band name thing that you, that we read in the book that time
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  and you know, we we were able to remember it.
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  So oh. So good, but I have to like
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  doing this. Ahead of this, do the whole read
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  deep dive of your catalog just to just to refresh the memory
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  and knock off the old cobwebs back to pork chop sandwich.
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  What was the number three? I don't remember what it was a
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  Burger King. You'd like the what a Big Mac,
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  but you want the number three. What was the number three back
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  then? You know, I'll tell you it's a
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  funny story all. That song in particular was
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  written by Phil. The music, the lyrics, all of
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  it. And, you know, he was such an
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  exceptional, or still is such an exceptional music talent that he
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  used to write all those songs on his own as a kid.
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  And when we heard him, he just had all these tapes and he
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  played them for us one day. And he's like, hey, this is like
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  when I was a kid. And it was just hilarious.
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  And it was became one of those things was like, wouldn't it be
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  funny if we covered one of your original songs and put it on
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  ACD? And that's just kind of how it
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  came to life. I could not tell you the meaning
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  or the translations or the impetus behind any of those
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  lyrics. Those are the those
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  unfortunately, are not mine. But, you know, I'm sure there's
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  got to be a meeting out there somewhere.
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  Good save, good save. I was like, I didn't write it.
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  I didn't write. It a lot of that hinge early
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  stuff, you know, was what what you know, I mean, we did write
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  that all together, but that specific skill set of bully we
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  belong to Phil. Like a lifetime ago.
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  So. So I guess, yeah, I guess we're
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  at 30 years. Technically you've been at this
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  for a little over 30 because, you know, I gotta remember
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  before anything was recorded, you had to start somewhere.
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  So what made you start singing? Oh gosh, you're right.
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  I mean, hardcore since 94 is really when it began, you know,
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  and I started as a drummer. I was not a very good drummer by
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  any means. And you know, to be a drummer
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  you have to have some real talent.
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  It does require skill and stamina. 2 things I did not
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  have, still do not have to this day.
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  So we realized pretty quickly that it'd be easier to find a
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  drummer than a singer. So we were able to find a
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  drummer to fill in initially when the band started and I
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  moved over to singing, you know, I mean, I enjoyed it, but we
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  were essentially a cover band. We were barely writing our own
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  songs. I mean, we were, you know, just
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  kids in our early 20s at that point.
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  And we were just discovering, writing and being creative.
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  And over the time between 94 and 2000 when we signed with Scrap
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  60, we released, you know, a few different EPS, just toured up
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  and down the East Coast, anywhere that we could play.
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  We had an old crappy van. And, you know, we just kind of
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  figured out who we were and that culminated in the Roadrunner
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  deal and then, you know, where we are today, so.
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  I haven't heard the name Scrap 60 in a minute.
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  That Rob Caggiano. Rob Caggiano, Eddie Paul and
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  Steve Regina were the original three.
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  Yes, Yes. Now the New York, the New York
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  area is full of such, like in that, in that time, in that time
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  frame, everybody had such a, it was such a awesome circle.
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  And like from like 90, yeah, like 95 to 2000.
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  I'd say like I don't get 10, 2005 just to be, just to be
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  nice. That whole era was like you had
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  the, you know, the Westchester, the whole Poughkeepsie area, and
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  then you had like everybody come down to the city.
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  So like you guys in pain Mask and all those other cats from
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  all that whole era. I've played up there in bands
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  back in the day. So like that was like that whole
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  your hometown was like my stomping ground.
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  But I'm. You're right, you know, I mean,
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  I remember blind side from up in Poughkeepsie back in the day
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  where awesome of these come down and play 7 Willow Street.
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  So it was like the chance 7 Willow St., you know?
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  Then you had the Globe in Norwalk and you had toads in New
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  Haven and just became this kind of tri-state circle, you know,
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  And that's when you weren't doing something out in Long
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  Island or Lemoore's in Brooklyn or, you know, any of the rooms
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  of the city. Like there was a vibe back in
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  the day, you know, you had awesome record stores.
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  You had, you know, radio stations that supported the
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  underground scene. You had venues that put local
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  bands on, like, you know, you had an ecosystem.
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  It was pretty awesome and if you were out there working you could
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  you could be seen. Yeah, I remember all, every
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  record company had like a street team at some point.
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  I remember any show you'd have a bunch of kids outside with
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  Flyers and some of those friends that some of the people I knew
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  who were doing that became like actual like executives and like
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  started their own labels and they're doing pretty well for
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  themselves. But it's really cool that just
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  giving out a flyer leads to something else.
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  And then just. Yeah, I mean, just act of like
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  putting up, you know, you know, staple gunning Flyers to
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  telephone poles in the dead of night.
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  You know, that's a that's a rite of passage.
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  That's an exercise. You know, you have to.
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  That's why I was doing it back then.
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  So. And it's pretty cool, man.
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  That's like, yeah, but now. And now it feels like you've
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  guys have grown to such a different animal, like per SE,
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  like, you know, it's like, all right, cool.
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  Like, yeah, there's a lot of growth between like every record
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  and it's like, Oh yeah, cuz I, I look at your last bunch of
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  releases, like I'll just talk about the last 5-6 years.
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  You know, I call it the long ass EP to me because it's like, you
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  release like one song every other year or so and each part
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  has a different vibe and I forget.
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  Like I listen to the music and then your voice kicks in and
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  it's like, oh, wait, the same, just the same dude.
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  You know, like you have like a lot of different sounds to your
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  voice. And just overall you guys have
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  like, like, like hindsight. Hindsight sounds like old skill,
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  old school, like, you know, early 2000s dry kill logic and
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  stuff, but like vices sounds like something completely
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  different. You know, as well as the new
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  song, you know, like how like now we belong with the dead.
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  You know, it's cool. It's like we're the singing
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  threw me off for a second. I was like, Oh, wait, it's still
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  him again, you know, because it's like that intro, like I'm
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  used to the growly voice and there's some cool melodies in
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  there. And it's all these, those last
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  four songs have some really cool melody.
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  And to me it's like, oh, it's a nice little mini EP that you
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  guys just released one song at a time over the last five or six
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  years. And it's it's like an extended
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  extension of of vengeance and violence because it's the same
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  lineup. And that was 19 years ago.
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  You know, it's like everything, if you look at I'm just looking
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  at the years and things sometimes and I just kind of
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  jump around. It's like, wow, it's like pretty
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  much all of us have kids that are probably as old as your
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  records. You're right, you know that
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  that's the that is the exercise. And you know, you know, listen,
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  I appreciate the kind words, right?
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  I'm glad that people still gravitate towards the music and
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  still respond and still feel like they're listening to the
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  same band that they're familiar with, whether it is more
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  familiar with the Dead and Dreaming or Vengeance or the
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  darker side of nonsense, Right. So like the fact that we're
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  still in the conversation as like we're the same band.
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  You remember just writing new music, That part is awesome
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  because it be very easy after 20 years for you to be like, Oh
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  well, you guys haven't learned anything.
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  Clearly you guys haven't been a band for a while, right?
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  So the idea that the music still stands now and then it all works
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  collectively. You know, that parts important
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  and and, and we're grateful for that.
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  If you look at the albums and you think about, you know, even
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  the first record, right, there's a lot of melody on that album.
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  And yes, you have, you know, the obvious stuff like goodnight or
• 10:23
  pain or feel the break, but there's also a lot of melody in
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  track 13. There's a lot of, you know,
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  dissonant melody just in some of the screams.
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  So we've always tried to, again, just, you know, as long as we're
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  recording songs that we feel really good about, that
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  constitutes what we're willing to release out into the world.
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  But at the end of the day, it's that comparison, comparison and
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  contrasting. It's the thoughts around the
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  music that we find most interesting because, you know,
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  at the end of all of this, the audience is the one that
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  determines whether they enjoy that music or not.
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  We like it. You know, we think it's awesome.
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  We're comfortable with releasing it.
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  But you know, again, if the audience doesn't think you hit
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  the mark, you, you know, you have to take that into
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  consideration. So for us, we just try to,
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  again, just stand in service of the song, be comfortable with
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  the stuff, feel good about it. We had to play it live.
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  And you know, we believe that that's the right approach for
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  folks to appreciate it as well. You just completed like a couple
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  weeks ago you finished. You just did your first show in
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  like since 20? Since 2006 or 7 around there
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  first. Show in the US in 20 years since
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  2005. Let last show we played was
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  2006, but that was in Europe. So 19 shows. 19 years.
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  It's a live show. 20 years since the US live.
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  That's a hell of a gap. And what have how have you kept
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  your voice strong all these years?
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  You know, I know you had a break from there, but basically you,
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  you know, you had vices and everything, but between vices to
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  from 2006, how did we keep this tool of your sheriff?
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  You know, the anger, the anger still there, the fire still
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  burns, right. So the ability and the desire to
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  want to express myself in similar ways still exist.
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  I think there's, there's, you know, some things that I noticed
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  that, you know, maybe audiences don't, but I certainly do.
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  I think the timber of my voice, it's a little bit higher now.
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  I'm not, you know, driving around in a van playing six
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  shows a week for a decade and smoking 100 blunts a day and,
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  you know, just kind of wearing myself down.
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  You know, I spent 15 years not singing, 20 years not singing.
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  So I would say to some extent my voice is healed.
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  And you probably hear that more in the register of my singing,
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  which is on the higher side. Then maybe some of the other
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  melodies from the previous records, which might be a little
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  bit lower and registers. So like there's some nuance to
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  it. But again, you know, I think to
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  your point earlier, having the nucleus of the band since 2006
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  still in place, you know, we're still writings music that sounds
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  like the last time you heard the band.
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  It's not like it's just me or just one guy.
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  And there's a whole new influx of talent and perspective.
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  You know the the musical sensibility is essentially still
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  the same. Yeah, it's, it's, uh,
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  interesting. Some bands, you know, they
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  either can do the safe route like, oh, we need to sound
• 13:14
  exactly like people remember us, you know, But I feel like you
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  guys to, to my ears, you guys have taken 4 different chances
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  to four different swings and wrote four different songs that
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  still at the core sound like the same band.
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  But if I didn't tell somebody, if I played like I said,
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  hindsight, somebody would like, Oh yeah, this is dragical Logic,
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  all right, Sounds right. But if I said, you know, oh,
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  this song is dragical Logic, they're like shut up.
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  It wouldn't, you know, because there's like, there's some
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  things in there that, you know, I wasn't expecting and it was,
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  it's nice to be surprised. I appreciate that, man.
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  Thank you. I appreciate that.
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  So what made you guys want to work with what what did Greg
• 13:52
  Thomas bring to to this for you guys?
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  Greg's awesome. You know, we, we met Greg or I
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  met Greg through Brendan, our bass player, who was in 100
• 14:02
  Demons and 1000 Falling Skies and has really been a part of
• 14:06
  the scene, you know, for for years and years and been a part
• 14:09
  of a lot of accomplished bands. And he's known Greg.
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  They both are from the Connecticut scene and they both
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  know each other. They've worked together
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  previously. And when we started to release
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  to write these singles, he recommended Greg as a, you know,
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  potential partner to help us bring these to life.
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  And, you know, we met him and we're all huge fans of end.
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  And, you know, we think he's just an amazing guitar player
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  and, you know, songwriter. So to be in a room with somebody
• 14:35
  that you really respect in that way is one level of amazing.
• 14:39
  And then the idea that he's such a great producer and not only
• 14:44
  knowing how to take your songs and bring the best out of them
• 14:47
  and you, but also put you in a position where you feel
• 14:50
  comfortable enough to be able to produce at your highest.
• 14:54
  And that is probably the hardest part of band producer New
• 15:00
  interactions is getting everybody comfortable to a place
• 15:03
  where they can be their best. And Greg was so gracious towards
• 15:06
  us and really just put us in a position to be successful
• 15:11
  musically. And it left us kind of coming
• 15:13
  away from the sessions really energized, especially this last
• 15:18
  one. We were very close to him on,
• 15:21
  you know, it's probably the the closest we were to recording
• 15:23
  with him. We recorded everything together.
• 15:25
  We were very, you know, we worked very closely together as
• 15:28
  a band on all of the aspects and we just all left feeling really
• 15:32
  good about it. So for us, it's, it was just
• 15:34
  such an amazing experience that we're excited to do more.
• 15:38
  We're just, you know, again, to have that level of engagement
• 15:41
  with somebody that you respect is, you know, it's, it's, it's
• 15:44
  just a great, great, great thing.
• 15:46
  I get that. Like, I understand how hard it
• 15:49
  is to find people you feel comfortable with that.
• 15:51
  I mean, if they make you feel comfortable in the studio,
• 15:53
  that's, I don't want to say it's like the safe space, but it is a
• 15:56
  place where you are very vulnerable.
• 15:59
  It's like all your, you know, flaws can be seen very clearly.
• 16:04
  And if you're ready for it, you're ready for it.
• 16:06
  If you're not. Oh, yeah, You know, some people
• 16:09
  need a little bit massaging to sound great, and some get it
• 16:12
  like in one or two takes. And it's like, Oh yeah, that was
• 16:14
  like, oh, that was so easy. Right and you know, and that's
• 16:17
  the thing, right, because you have a you have an opportunity
• 16:19
  to look at it as hey, you know, I'm doing something wrong, you
• 16:23
  know, like, oh, you know, and I need to be in a position to
• 16:26
  defend that or that or you can say, whoa, I have an opportunity
• 16:30
  to do something right. So let me now like absorb this
• 16:35
  and take this into account and then reflect it back.
• 16:38
  And I think that's a much more powerful position to be in.
• 16:41
  And you can only kind of get there if you know, you're
• 16:44
  invited into it and, and, and, and it exists.
• 16:47
  And I think that's what just part of the magic that Greg
• 16:50
  brings. So again, we're just super
• 16:51
  thankful to have him in our corner helping us with the
• 16:54
  music. And we think it shows.
• 16:56
  I've worked with producers that don't know how to bring out the
• 16:59
  best in you. They're just kind of, yeah,
• 17:02
  you're a seasoned veteran producer and you're not, you
• 17:05
  know, it's like, OK, you're just a name.
• 17:06
  You know, you're just hired for the name.
• 17:08
  It's like you didn't do anything.
• 17:09
  You didn't help. Like, hey, I'm having a little
• 17:12
  moment here. You're not helping me get past
• 17:14
  this moment. You're just like, I will work
• 17:16
  around it. I was like, cool, but help me.
• 17:19
  That's the last resort. But help me like, hey, you need
• 17:21
  a minute? Yeah, talk to me.
• 17:23
  Help me just get my fucking get out of my own head so I can just
• 17:26
  play the best of my abilities. And so I'm tired.
• 17:28
  It's like, Oh yeah, like that red light, the red light
• 17:30
  syndrome happened to me once. And it was like, it's like I was
• 17:33
  playing fine before you pressed that button and started
• 17:36
  recording. But I don't know what happened.
• 17:39
  You know, you're right. And again, you know, it's just,
• 17:41
  it's just that confidence and the ability to feel like it's OK
• 17:44
  to be vulnerable and great producers know how to do that.
• 17:47
  So we're just, we're just super thankful, man, you know?
• 17:51
  Yeah, I think Will Putney made it sound amazing because he's.
• 17:54
  Yeah, we'll put a crushing, crushing master on and, you
• 17:57
  know, it's like you get it to a place and Greg and Will
• 18:00
  obviously, you know, have a, have a are very tight and have a
• 18:03
  great relationship. And he's like, listen, I really
• 18:04
  think Will can bring out the right sound for this, you know,
• 18:07
  in that final mastering stage. And yeah, I mean, we're just,
• 18:12
  again, we're just really happy. And to have to have folks of
• 18:14
  this caliber working on our music, man, it's like it's just
• 18:18
  a dream. And we're just so thankful for.
• 18:20
  It so now it's since it's 2025 and not 1995 or 2006.
• 18:26
  How is how was the how was the song written?
• 18:30
  Like? Do you guys are you guys, I
• 18:31
  don't know how cold you guys live to each other.
• 18:33
  Is it the old school way of let's go together, get a jam
• 18:35
  studio or check your e-mail. Here's a riff.
• 18:38
  You know, in the beginning when we started to, we get back
• 18:40
  together, we started writing these songs in 2016 and we
• 18:44
  hadn't written together for 10 years.
• 18:47
  So we got together in our old studio space in, you know,
• 18:50
  Westchester County, in Mount Vernon, and we started to just
• 18:53
  hash out riffs. And, you know, the best, the
• 18:55
  best parallel I can offer is that it's like an old computer
• 18:59
  that you plug in and turn back on and you're like, I don't know
• 19:02
  if this thing works or if it's even fast enough to probably
• 19:05
  doesn't have the right ports for the monitors anymore.
• 19:07
  It doesn't even hook up to the Wi-Fi.
• 19:09
  But I know all my pictures are in here.
• 19:11
  So like, I got to get it to work, right.
• 19:13
  So like for us, we were like that old computer, just seeing
• 19:15
  what was working, seeing what wasn't working.
• 19:17
  But we started to write again and we came up with, you know,
• 19:21
  we wrote and finished vices and don't see ghosts.
• 19:24
  And we had the framework for now.
• 19:26
  You belong with the Dead and you know, so we, we, we, we had
• 19:30
  those songs, we released the two Covad happened.
• 19:32
  And then when we had this opportunity to start playing
• 19:34
  live again, we said this is a good time to finish.
• 19:37
  Now you belong with the Dead. So we have new music.
• 19:39
  But I think that these songs are a reflection of that era of the
• 19:42
  band, that 2016, 2017 reforming, you know, deciding that we could
• 19:48
  write anything that we want. So what type of music do we want
• 19:51
  to write in? The first song that we wrote was
• 19:53
  Vices. We wanted to write something
• 19:55
  that felt very close to who we are and what we wanted to be and
• 19:59
  the things we wanted to say. And then we moved into Don't See
• 20:02
  Ghost, which felt like an extension of that, going in some
• 20:05
  different directions and trying some different things.
• 20:08
  And then, you know, the framework for this and then
• 20:10
  really putting it together over the last, you know, year or so
• 20:14
  probably started in like, October of last year and then,
• 20:17
  you know, finishing it up by March.
• 20:19
  So maybe about six months. But yeah, I think that those
• 20:22
  songs represent an era, the same way of Vengeance and Violence is
• 20:25
  an era and the same way the albums are.
• 20:26
  We just didn't have a larger body of work.
• 20:28
  And moving forward, you know, I can't say that it'll sound the
• 20:32
  exact same. I mean, maybe it'll sound like
• 20:34
  we'll write the next 10 songs and you group them all together.
• 20:36
  And that could have been a record.
• 20:38
  I don't know. That's not the intention.
• 20:39
  But I'm sure that hopefully, you know, like if we do continue to
• 20:43
  sound the same, you know, we don't become an alt Rock, You
• 20:47
  know, cut time country gospel band, then, you know, I think
• 20:51
  it'll it'll sound like a body of work, hopefully a cohesive body
• 20:54
  of work. Well, the best part is, like I
• 20:56
  said, you guys, there's a clear evolution.
• 20:58
  And that's a good thing because it's like, yeah, you could have,
• 21:01
  you know, I don't want to hate, you know, using the AC/DC
• 21:03
  metaphor for a lot of bands like, Oh yeah.
• 21:05
  But you've, you know, a lot of bands it's like, oh wow, They
• 21:07
  sound exactly like they did before they stopped playing X
• 21:11
  amount of years ago. And it's not a good thing that
• 21:14
  they sound exactly the same a decade or two later.
• 21:17
  Yeah, I know you're right. I mean, listen, you know, we,
• 21:20
  we, we try to, I mean, which we, we just stand in service of the
• 21:24
  song. We just want to write the Best
• 21:26
  Song possible and we're cognizant if we feel like we're
• 21:28
  treading into something that we've already done that didn't
• 21:32
  we do haven't we been here like haven't we?
• 21:34
  So again, we, we're, we're cognizant and it's no
• 21:36
  indictment. I don't begrudge anyone that
• 21:38
  creates anything artist objective.
• 21:40
  And I don't know any, I don't know, I don't, I don't claim to
• 21:42
  know anything. So it can be whatever it needs
• 21:45
  to be. But I think for us, we just
• 21:47
  always try to be like, you know, what would be crazy?
• 21:50
  What haven't we done? Like what's still something that
• 21:52
  gets us like, whoa, Because you know, right.
• 21:55
  Like when you're in with your with your friends and your
• 21:56
  writing, you know, the bandmates, people you're closest
• 21:58
  with to in this creative space. Like when you hear someone write
• 22:02
  that riff and you're like, or you hear that Trump be like,
• 22:04
  whoa, whoa, play that thing again.
• 22:05
  Play like that whole act, that's the fun.
• 22:09
  Like there's, that's it. There's nothing else, not even
• 22:11
  the stage. None of it matters.
• 22:12
  Being in that room and hearing that thing and having your brain
• 22:14
  switch on creatively, it's like the crystal ball starts to swirl
• 22:18
  and you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 22:19
  Play it again, Play it again, play it again.
• 22:21
  Keep playing it, keep playing it.
• 22:23
  Like that to me is like the hit, that's the dopamine hit when I
• 22:27
  walk out of that room. That's where I'm like, this is
• 22:29
  awesome. So we just, that's again, you
• 22:33
  know, you just stand in service of that emotion.
• 22:36
  Totally. So you kind of like this is
• 22:38
  awesome. How did it feel being back on
• 22:40
  stage after 20 years? Like I'm sure it was the
• 22:42
  butterflies before you walked out like onto that.
• 22:45
  So you're on the side stage and you're just like great kind of
• 22:50
  psych yourself up and somebody have to like give you a little
• 22:52
  push. You know, it's just, it's like
• 22:55
  the whole thing was just wild. I mean, you know, we've never,
• 23:00
  you know, the only kind of like festivals that existed in 2000,
• 23:04
  whatever we were a band any of those years were the touring
• 23:07
  ones like Osfest or Mayhem or Pork Tour or the standalone
• 23:11
  European ones, right? Like little whacking or walking
• 23:14
  and whatever it's called, you know, and all those, all those
• 23:16
  other ones. And we never played any of
• 23:18
  those. We were just never considered
• 23:20
  for them. So like when the opportunity
• 23:22
  came to be a part of these lineups, we were just like,
• 23:25
  whoa. And you know, it's one of those
• 23:27
  things where your initial reactions like, how are you
• 23:29
  going to, how are you going to do that?
• 23:30
  And then the next immediate overriding emotion is how are
• 23:34
  you not going to do that? So then begins the conversation
• 23:37
  around, Oh my gosh, what's the work that needs to be done to be
• 23:41
  able to walk out on that stage and not completely fall apart?
• 23:45
  And then it becomes an exercise. But through through all of it, I
• 23:48
  think, at least for me, I was always kind of able to
• 23:51
  disassociate and just say like, it's that's months away.
• 23:55
  If I just focus on what I need to do today and focus tomorrow
• 23:57
  on what I need to do tomorrow, I don't have to be overwhelmed or
• 24:01
  become anxious with the, Oh my God, what's going to happen?
• 24:04
  So I was always able to be like, it's later, It's later.
• 24:07
  And even on the day of the show, you know, everybody leaves to go
• 24:10
  to the stage because it's kind of far away from the artist
• 24:13
  area. And I was like, dude, that's you
• 24:14
  have like an hour and a half. We have like 90 minutes and
• 24:17
  they're like, Cliff's going to take you 60 minutes to get to
• 24:19
  the stage because you have to get driven around.
• 24:20
  You got to get around the thing. And I was like, oh, I guess, I
• 24:23
  guess I can't say. And I have any more time now.
• 24:26
  I'm officially out of time. Let's go.
• 24:29
  And then I started to just be like, all right, well, let's
• 24:32
  just warm up and let's just get ready.
• 24:34
  And, and then, you know, you walk out on stage.
• 24:36
  But I think if anything, I really have a profound level of
• 24:39
  respect for touring artists of any age, of any ilk, of any
• 24:44
  style. Because you work muscles that I
• 24:47
  have long forgotten how to use and you know, the exercise are
• 24:52
  becoming reacquainted, reacquainted with performing
• 24:56
  again. You realize like when you put
• 24:58
  the work in, you really see it on the output.
• 25:01
  And I think about all the bands today that I love that just are
• 25:04
  great. And I'm like, yeah, you work for
• 25:06
  it. There's no, no shortcuts to
• 25:07
  this, you know, so excited to just continue the cycle and
• 25:10
  continue to get better and, you know, just enjoy it.
• 25:13
  Yeah, I, I've had the pleasure of working with my old friends,
• 25:17
  my old, my old come, my old buddies from back in the day,
• 25:19
  God forbid. So I've been, I've been hanging
• 25:22
  out with them on the last couple of reunion shows, drum tacking
• 25:25
  and doing photography for them. So it is nice to see like, Oh
• 25:29
  yeah, like watching these guys get ready for watching these
• 25:32
  guys get ready for. They're like, all right, hey,
• 25:34
  we're doing an anniversary of this record.
• 25:35
  All right, we're going to play the whole record.
• 25:37
  All right, cool. Here's the set list.
• 25:38
  All right, now let's just play it front to back or back to
• 25:41
  front, whatever. And if we got room for another
• 25:44
  one or two, they do it, you know, and it's, and they're fun.
• 25:47
  They're like at the point where you guys are like they, they
• 25:49
  want to, they're they're working on stuff.
• 25:52
  You know, they had a couple shows this year.
• 25:53
  We're doing a couple shows with Life of Agony later on.
• 25:56
  Yes, they say there's a run with LOA coming up, right?
• 25:58
  Yep, in September. Yeah, that's awesome, man.
• 26:01
  I I love God forbid I they were those, those those dudes just
• 26:04
  put in the work too, man. I remember just they were
• 26:07
  everywhere. They did that tour, I think in
• 26:10
  2004 or five when they were out with machine head Europe for
• 26:13
  like just months on end. And I remember thinking like
• 26:16
  what an awesome tour that must be just going everywhere, doing
• 26:20
  everything like they're just they were always a band that
• 26:24
  seemed to be like out doing stuff we just would have died to
• 26:27
  have been doing and taught love the music, just profound respect
• 26:31
  for the band and and all the years.
• 26:32
  So when I saw the LOA thing, I was like, that's awesome, like
• 26:35
  that's cool. This.
• 26:36
  Thing it's nice to see that they're they're not as jaded as
• 26:40
  one would think, and neither are you.
• 26:44
  You know, so many years go by, I guess, you know, you just, you
• 26:48
  know that. But we, we, we never really, you
• 26:50
  know, we didn't end our we didn't go on Iatus because we
• 26:53
  had any sort of, you know, bad things, interpersonal dynamics
• 26:57
  or any sort of overarching problems.
• 26:59
  You know, just the musical landscape was shifting and you
• 27:01
  needed a team behind you to be able to achieve success.
• 27:05
  You needed a great manager, a great agent, a record label that
• 27:09
  believed the publicity team. You know, you needed, you needed
• 27:11
  a team. And, you know, the cards just
• 27:14
  weren't dealt in our favor after like, you know, 2006.
• 27:19
  And but we weren't, you know, we're still very close.
• 27:22
  We still all hang out and, you know, it just wasn't just wasn't
• 27:25
  in the cards for us. And that's fine.
• 27:27
  I mean, what are you going to do?
• 27:27
  Right? It's like, yeah, we had we had
• 27:29
  far more success than perhaps we ever deserved.
• 27:32
  So you can't get mad at it. It's just that's what it is.
• 27:35
  And that's what it was. So to be here now is just just
• 27:38
  awesome. You know, we're just again, like
• 27:40
  the overwhelming motion is just gratitude, to be fair.
• 27:44
  I understand that because I feel like, hey, you know what?
• 27:47
  It's like, I have one record. I have one record out in the
• 27:51
  world, so I understand the work it takes to put a record out and
• 27:55
  to have three. That's awesome.
• 27:58
  It's like you just still can't be mad at it.
• 28:00
  It's like it's better to have a record than no record, so.
• 28:03
  Seriously, you know, the body of work is impressive to do that.
• 28:07
  That's really awesome. Speaking of, you know that show
• 28:09
  and shows coming up as of this recording next week, I believe
• 28:14
  it's next week. You have two shows coming up.
• 28:16
  You got 2 local issues shows. You have a show in Brooklyn, the
• 28:20
  Brooklyn Monarch. You're playing there and you're
• 28:22
  playing dingbats, you know, celebrating 20 years of the dead
• 28:26
  and dreaming. Yes, Sir.
• 28:27
  I mean, it's a wonderful milestone.
• 28:29
  You know, we are when all of this, you know, started, we were
• 28:32
  thinking about, you know, we're returning to these bigger shows
• 28:35
  and a part of these events. And, you know, we were just
• 28:38
  thinking about where we've kind of come from and the opportunity
• 28:42
  to play some of these headline shows and really dive into the
• 28:45
  nuance of the set list and being able to play some cut that we'd
• 28:50
  never really played live back then, some songs that have never
• 28:53
  been played live in the States from a Vengeance and Violence,
• 28:56
  some of the new stuff. So we're just like, man, that
• 28:59
  would be awesome too, to just be able to play a lot of music, you
• 29:03
  know, more than just kind of the traditional festival slot
• 29:06
  allowance again, which is fine, but that's no indictment either.
• 29:10
  We're happy to play whatever time is allowed to us, but to be
• 29:13
  a headliner after all this time is also really interesting and a
• 29:18
  special opportunity because folks have been living with this
• 29:21
  music for a minute. And it's not like, you know,
• 29:23
  hey, like the last time when the darker side of nonsense was only
• 29:27
  a couple of years old and we were just out for the first time
• 29:29
  on the Dead and Dreaming and, you know, we didn't know if we'd
• 29:32
  have another record coming after.
• 29:34
  So now, all this time later, it'll be really awesome just to
• 29:39
  see everybody enjoy the music. That part's just special.
• 29:42
  So again, the whole thing holds a lot of different emotions in
• 29:46
  different sizes and in different spaces, and we're just excited
• 29:49
  to experience it all again for the first time.
• 29:52
  Not to be very cliche, but it was, you know, there is a first
• 29:55
  time to all of this that we feel even though we know it's not
• 29:59
  obviously. Time gives you that perspective
• 30:02
  and clarity that, you know, it makes you appreciate or just
• 30:06
  like I, I, you know, it wasn't so bad like 20 years ago.
• 30:09
  This was the hard worst thing ever.
• 30:11
  I can't believe, oh, why did I sign that?
• 30:13
  Why did I work with this person? It was the worst experience.
• 30:16
  And it's like, all right, it wasn't so bad.
• 30:18
  I remember I had a moment with an old band member and it ended
• 30:22
  really bad. And I was like, and then we were
• 30:26
  reforming the years later for like, we're trying to do it
• 30:28
  again. And I was like, man, if I ever
• 30:29
  see that dude, I'm gonna punch him.
• 30:32
  I'm gonna punch him. And then one of those random
• 30:35
  moments, I'm just like on the street in Queens.
• 30:37
  And I like sneezed and I turned around and he was right there.
• 30:42
  Oh, my God. And it was like, Hey, what's
• 30:45
  going on? It's like, like, and all those
• 30:47
  feelings of anger was like, you haven't played with you or seen
• 30:50
  you like in a decade. Hey, how are you as a human
• 30:53
  being? You know, it's like, you know,
• 30:54
  we're still alive. It was it was an interesting.
• 30:56
  Gift, right? It's like, you know, so at some
• 30:58
  point you just, you just let it all go.
• 31:01
  So I'm just going to, I'm throw it out there for my own personal
• 31:04
  curiosity. Are we going to have any of the
• 31:06
  old school members show up to this to these shows?
• 31:09
  I mean, not that I'm aware of, no.
• 31:12
  So I I didn't get the memo. But you never know.
• 31:15
  We'll be there, I guess. But no, there's no like special
• 31:18
  performance like appearances or anything like that, no.
• 31:21
  I really wish the chance was still around because I feel like
• 31:25
  this needs a third show in that region.
• 31:28
  Oh. I love the chance, man.
• 31:30
  I would love, I would absolutely love to play the chance one last
• 31:33
  time. We did some great shows up there
• 31:36
  and that place is an institution, you know, I loved
• 31:39
  it. I love the chance, yeah.
• 31:41
  That was like that was for the people who weren't in Brooklyn
• 31:44
  or, or, you know, from the 80s, Like that was like our Lamoris
• 31:48
  basically. You know, I felt like, you know,
• 31:50
  if you weren't a city kid at like CBS or Connell and High,
• 31:54
  that was the next big, oh, I could play it a chance.
• 31:57
  It's like I'm playing with a real band.
• 32:00
  Holy cow, you know. Crazy, right?
• 32:02
  And that, that's how we felt about 7 Willow St. in Port
• 32:05
  Chester. You know, every band with it
• 32:07
  wouldn't be able to play in the city or didn't want to route to
• 32:09
  the city there, didn't get hit with a radius clause.
• 32:12
  They would all go there. So all these bands we would open
• 32:15
  for that became huge. Yeah.
• 32:17
  It was just like just all these bands, like it was just crazy.
• 32:20
  From Exodus to like Coal Chamber to Motörhead to like, you're
• 32:26
  like, what are you talking about?
• 32:27
  You open for Motörhead in 1997? It's like, yeah, yeah, I don't
• 32:31
  know. I know, I don't know, you know,
• 32:33
  I don't know how it happened, but it was just wild.
• 32:37
  So to your appointment, those are the things I think that make
• 32:39
  a scene. And if you don't have that, it's
• 32:42
  very hard to have a local music scene because you need people
• 32:45
  that believe in all the different formats, you know, or
• 32:48
  at least back in the day, you know, you need a local record
• 32:50
  store that would take in your CD and sell it for you on
• 32:53
  consignment because you're playing the big venue down the
• 32:55
  street. Because the local radio station
• 32:57
  has an overnight that plays local bands and you're the
• 33:00
  number 2 local band in the overnight.
• 33:01
  You need that to keep it moving. And if you have it, it's very
• 33:05
  powerful. You know, it can move a whole
• 33:07
  community. I don't, you know, I don't know
• 33:09
  what the equivalent is today, but in 1996 those things were
• 33:13
  definitely necessary. Oh yeah, you know, it's again,
• 33:16
  because like I said, my, my guitarist at the time, he went
• 33:19
  up to Sony New Paltz. So he worked out he was a radio
• 33:22
  DJ at the edge, so he'd play all the metal stuff.
• 33:25
  So like, Oh yeah, he introduced me to so many stuff because he
• 33:27
  had all these CDs and I was like, we'd always check out all
• 33:29
  this cool. Like I didn't, that was the
• 33:31
  first time I heard Judas Priest was from him.
• 33:33
  Like he, he had Jugulator and he's like, yeah, I was like, oh,
• 33:36
  this is like, I know that's the weirdest record to get into.
• 33:38
  You know, it's like, all right, whatever.
• 33:39
  Like I got into X Factor anyway, Iron made it.
• 33:42
  I got into X Factor, then I had to backtrack with these other
• 33:45
  bands. So when you get in is when you
• 33:47
  get in, and that's how I feel. It's the truth, right?
• 33:49
  Exactly. You can't be beholden to that.
• 33:51
  That's just when you get in. But as long as you understand
• 33:54
  it, once you're in it, then you've done the work, you know?
• 33:56
  Yeah, you guys, I saw, like I saw a weird old flyer of you
• 33:59
  guys play with the Misfits. Was that the Michael Graves
• 34:03
  version or one of the other Michael singers?
• 34:05
  No, I think that was the Michael Graves version.
• 34:09
  That's another great one that I completely forgot about until
• 34:11
  you mentioned. It's like, yeah, those that
• 34:13
  misfits. I think it was God who was, who
• 34:15
  else was that orange 9mm? Yes, yes.
• 34:20
  They're another awesome New York band.
• 34:22
  I remember we played with them and Anthrax at Irving Plaza.
• 34:26
  And Grinspoon. It was us, Grinspoon, 09 and
• 34:31
  Anthrax and I remember, I'll never forget.
• 34:33
  We walked in and like some angry crew guy had just discovered
• 34:37
  there was a local opener. And I remember we walked in and
• 34:40
  the guy was like who? The put a local opener on and we
• 34:43
  were like hi, we've never been here before.
• 34:48
  The guy's like, you know, walked away.
• 34:50
  But I just remember being so impressed with Orange 9mm.
• 34:53
  Ever since then, we all love them in the band.
• 34:57
  So great. They're doing a show like
• 34:59
  unfortunately the you guys just play.
• 35:02
  Oh no, it's this weekend. It's the same weekend as ours.
• 35:04
  Yes, the. Same weekend as yours, yes,
• 35:06
  they're playing the day after you guys are in.
• 35:07
  I think it's the day after. I don't know.
• 35:09
  It's a it's a weird 2 day thing to celebrate another, you know,
• 35:12
  New York promoter who passed away this year.
• 35:15
  We lost 2 great promoters in in the New York City area, Rich
• 35:18
  Hall and Kevin Scandado. Like this 2 legends for
• 35:22
  introduced to getting people together and getting people that
• 35:24
  shows from a million from those days, man, I just got that we're
• 35:30
  still above ground. And you know, it's like now it's
• 35:32
  nice to like, it's really nice to like revisit and like check
• 35:36
  out all this music again. So like, I'm glad I got to get
• 35:38
  this interview with you because it was like, Oh yeah, I yeah,
• 35:41
  it's like, I haven't listened to your honestly, I haven't
• 35:43
  listened to your music in a long time.
• 35:45
  And I was like, oh, yeah. And then it's like, oh, wow, you
• 35:47
  put it on and you just like that smile starts creeping in.
• 35:50
  It's like, I remember this. I remember this, and I was
• 35:53
  talking. I was like, yeah, like I'm ready
• 35:54
  to be Draculogic. Gee, wait, Remember Hinge?
• 35:57
  Just like, what? Wait, Somebody like, you know,
• 35:59
  like one of my old bandmates reminded me about the whole
• 36:01
  Hinge connection. I was like, Oh yeah, that was
• 36:03
  their name. The whole name change.
• 36:05
  I remember because we were. That was a thing Where like,
• 36:07
  why'd they change their name? Rd.
• 36:09
  Fucking Road Runner did it. They made them do it.
• 36:13
  That's what. Road Runner was not happy.
• 36:15
  We had to change our name twice. Boy, oh boy.
• 36:17
  They were not my third name. They were like, all right, guys,
• 36:20
  we'll pick a personality here. What's going on?
• 36:26
  So after that we have after our New York, after our New York and
• 36:29
  Brooklyn shows, we have three more festival appearances this
• 36:32
  year so far. So far, well, that's that's
• 36:35
  going to be a, this is the year that that we have in front of
• 36:38
  us. We're just going to take it slow
• 36:39
  and steady. So we're going to be in Rock
• 36:41
  Fest in Kodot, Wisconsin on the 17th of July, then Incarceration
• 36:45
  on the 19th of July in Mansfield, OH, we'll have August
• 36:49
  and September home where we'll, you know, regroup and start to
• 36:52
  just collect ourselves, enjoy the summer.
• 36:54
  And then we've got Aftershock in October.
• 36:58
  And then from there, you know, we're going to be home.
• 37:00
  We're going to start to think about new music and, you know,
• 37:02
  hopefully we'll be in a similar situation next summer with a new
• 37:05
  body of work out playing again, you know, and, and, and have a
• 37:08
  larger commitment to, you know, a long play album.
• 37:13
  OK, so I figure out, Oh yeah, I was wondering if you guys were
• 37:16
  going to go the route of, you know, let's just here's 4 song,
• 37:19
  here's a little EP and just keep it going, like, and I'll just
• 37:22
  keep dropping EPS cuz like, yeah, the you've seen the
• 37:25
  landscape has changed from, from the old days as well.
• 37:29
  You know, you know how records used to sell to how they sell
• 37:32
  now. It's like, oh, physical copy,
• 37:34
  like, oh, this is, this is cute, you know, and it's like, like,
• 37:36
  what are you gonna sign? You can't sign a you can't
• 37:39
  digitally sign your headphones or your, you know, it's not even
• 37:42
  an MP3 player anymore. It's like, can't sell your iPad.
• 37:44
  It's like, oh, it's like I'm assigned to back of your cell
• 37:46
  phone. Yeah.
• 37:47
  Well, you know, that's the thing, right?
• 37:49
  I'm, I'm less bullish on the idea of it must all be 1
• 37:53
  collection released at the same time.
• 37:55
  Then I am bullish on the idea that however we determine the
• 37:59
  right way to release it is we just need the body of work.
• 38:02
  It needs to be completed as a body of work so that we can say
• 38:06
  this era of creativity consists of from here to here musically.
• 38:12
  And then from there, you know, a team of people that we trust,
• 38:16
  you know, that we work with will come to the right conclusions
• 38:19
  alongside of us on how we should do that.
• 38:22
  You know, what are our ambitions?
• 38:23
  What are our plans? Should, is there a way to think
• 38:26
  about consumption in a different manner or is the industry just
• 38:30
  geared towards to get people's attention?
• 38:32
  You must have a full album versus you know, I don't, I
• 38:36
  don't know. I these are the questions I have
• 38:38
  for the universe. So but I'm, I'm interested in
• 38:40
  learning and whatever the right, like listen whatever consumers
• 38:44
  want, like whatever an audience wants, right, like give me a
• 38:46
  couple of songs. Let me live with it when you
• 38:48
  then play some shows for Christ sake.
• 38:50
  And then give me some more music and then go play some more
• 38:52
  shows. Like I'm into that, like I'm
• 38:53
  into that instead of just like release an album and go do a
• 38:56
  bunch of things that to your point, like things come and go
• 38:59
  very quickly today. So how do you make it meaningful
• 39:03
  for everyone, Not just for us, you know, but for an audience,
• 39:06
  It has a lot of things to consume in their life.
• 39:09
  How would you like to consume? This is the probably the right
• 39:13
  place to start. So but I do think it's our
• 39:15
  responsibility to get the body of work together and that's what
• 39:18
  we're committed to doing. What's these?
• 39:19
  Festivals are over. Cool, cool.
• 39:22
  I'm excited. Maybe I'll see you next week.
• 39:24
  I got to. I hope so man.
• 39:26
  Bring it in. I'm like, I'm not that far from
• 39:28
  Brooklyn, you know, So it'd be good to like.
• 39:30
  Then officially, you've got no excuse and it's on.
• 39:32
  It's on camera and recorded. So Boggs, he lives close.
• 39:36
  He's already put it out into the universe.
• 39:38
  The universe will have him on the list if he shows up.
• 39:40
  The only question is, does he walk through the door?
• 39:42
  Maybe next time we talk, we'll have that conversation. 1st I'll
• 39:45
  just cut this out of the interview when I met him.
• 39:52
  Aw man dude this has been so much fun man.
• 39:53
  I appreciate your time this evening.
• 39:55
  Thank you SO. Much bro.
• 39:56
  I just got a few more I want to run by you now.
• 39:59
  So yeah, we're of the same age ish area range now we all have a
• 40:06
  lot of us have kids. How do you talk to your kids
• 40:08
  about music nowadays? Like, hey, go ahead, play music,
• 40:11
  It's fun, you should do it. Or are you more like, you know,
• 40:14
  do something else? It's not, you know, how do you
• 40:17
  like? Are you like, more encouraging
• 40:20
  or like be careful about this business?
• 40:23
  Well, I don't have kids, so that's number one, right?
• 40:25
  So I have no responsibility to anyone other than myself.
• 40:27
  But I do know of plenty of nieces and nephews and a whole
• 40:31
  bunch of family that is interested in music.
• 40:34
  And, you know, as they get older, they're learning about
• 40:37
  art and culture and how to have a creative side of your brain.
• 40:41
  And that part I do believe everyone should pursue.
• 40:44
  Whatever you are passionate in, just follow that passion.
• 40:48
  Even if you're not not good at it for a long time, don't stop
• 40:51
  doing it. Just continue to do it, whatever
• 40:53
  it is, cooking, art, making clothes, you know, whatever,
• 40:58
  whatever you love to do, singing in a heavy metal band, go do it.
• 41:03
  Just enjoy it, you know, because that's the enjoyment builds the
• 41:07
  confidence. The confidence builds the
• 41:10
  audience. The audience responds to that
• 41:12
  confidence and you respond to the audience, right?
• 41:16
  Like it's all cyclical. So if you're confident because
• 41:19
  you do it and that just comes with the work, people will see
• 41:21
  it and appreciate it, that you'll feel good about it, that
• 41:24
  they'll feel better about it, that you'll feel better, right?
• 41:26
  It's all it's just all in the work.
• 41:28
  So hopefully that answered the question.
• 41:32
  Dude, like, yeah, I think it, yeah, I think it did.
• 41:34
  You think you answered it, man. That's like, and I feel like
• 41:38
  music brings so many people together.
• 41:40
  It's like there's so many experiences and people you would
• 41:42
  not have met if it wasn't for music and then people's and then
• 41:46
  music has such a like a lock on people's emotions And then like,
• 41:51
  you know, like it takes you back to certain times certain, you
• 41:54
  know, certain songs trigger certain memories.
• 41:56
  It's like, oh man, like I remember, you know, this song
• 41:59
  takes me back to here. You know, I have this like
• 42:01
  personally, I have this weird, totally weird song lady hear me
• 42:05
  tonight, that mojo song. Like whenever I watched, I
• 42:08
  watched that video or hear that song, it reminds me of the video
• 42:13
  because the video was like a bunch of teenagers, you know,
• 42:16
  just driving around with a map trying to just like live life in
• 42:19
  the early 90s. And it's like, Oh yeah, I
• 42:21
  remember life before cell phones and just just, you know, wow,
• 42:25
  remember those just driving without a phone.
• 42:27
  And, you know, I remember going to the channel, like I said,
• 42:30
  going to the chance going taking a metro north upstate.
• 42:32
  And it's like, how am I getting up here without like a map?
• 42:35
  You know, like, oh, they can train.
• 42:36
  We'll meet you this. Oh yeah, you can walk from the
• 42:38
  train station there. You know, it's like this is
• 42:40
  doing it all gung ho like it is. It's a it's a trip.
• 42:43
  You know, there's a great quote and it's 5 casciat, which makes
• 42:47
  it maybe even more profound. Art is how we decorate space.
• 42:51
  Music is how we decorate time. And when you start to think
• 42:54
  about those essential and emotional connections you make
• 42:58
  with those moments and the audio that underpins them, and right
• 43:01
  in those times in your life and the emotions that you felt, you
• 43:04
  realize that it really narrates a time in your life.
• 43:07
  And I think that that has probably been very kind to us
• 43:11
  over time. Is that when you think about dry
• 43:14
  kill, you think about 20 years ago to your point, you start
• 43:18
  smile, you reflect on yourself, you hear the songs, you remember
• 43:22
  the good times and then the proverbial rose colored glasses,
• 43:26
  right? Like you start to look back on
• 43:27
  everything fondly. And you know, again, for us to
• 43:30
  be a beneficiary of that in any way, we're we're very thankful
• 43:34
  for it. But you know, that only comes
• 43:36
  with time, right? You never know that these things
• 43:39
  will happen in that moment when you're beating against the walls
• 43:42
  of life, trying to find a way in.
• 43:44
  It's just really interesting to reflect on them now and think
• 43:47
  about what it means, you know? And there you have it, Cliff of
• 43:51
  dry Co logic. It's been a pleasure.
• 43:53
  Thank you so much for this time. It's very it's very fun.
• 43:57
  Just eye opening. You know, you drop some
• 43:59
  knowledge bombs on here and just you're, you're a great, you're a
• 44:03
  great person to talk to tonight. Thank you man, I appreciate I
• 44:06
  had a blast man. Always good to catch up about
• 44:08
  all the things, especially anything Westchester related
• 44:11
  from back in the 90s. Man.
• 44:12
  There's a very small audience of folks I can have those
• 44:14
  conversations with, so it's awesome to have it with you, my
• 44:17
  friend. We've we've made it through.
• 44:19
  We made it through those times, so it's nice to reflect on them.
• 44:22
  Now if I come to the show, I. Mean if?
• 44:25
  What do you mean if? What is this you want to get?
• 44:28
  What is this if I already committed?
• 44:31
  I did the names on the list. I emailed my tour manager while
• 44:34
  we were here. It's a done deal.
• 44:36
  It's a done deal all. Right.
• 44:40
  Better hear a Hinge song somewhere or refer to all.
• 44:44
  Right. I just get through this year.
• 44:47
  I got to learn other songs, to learn.
• 44:49
  I can't remember everything. There's too many words.
• 44:51
  There's too many words.